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abortion

by: MADaboutTHIS

i am younger than amyone here i know that, but i just have to ask how could you do that? abortion is just not right. if you are pregnat and your child is at risk do everything you can, go as long as you can, abortion is not the answer. i looked at those pictures,AND OH MY GOOSH! how could thay do that? the mangeled bodies of those babies, what the hell did thaty do? they burn the babies to get them out. you burn candels, and lanterns etc. not babies! and for women to abort children when they are in 3rd trimester, im sorry i just cant stand for that. i have already told my family about this and some of them told me 'it is the persons choice to abort" yes i know that but why? what good is coming out of that? that is KILLING SOMEONE INOCCENT! that would be like finding jimmy hoffa inoccent and killing someone who has a good job family and a great life with a child on the way, why would you do that? so in my opinion, if you are pregnat just wait it out, have the baby and learn about the thig called ADOPTION! someone who CANT have children will thank you everytime thay look at that child, everytime the child say's i love you momy/daddy. and when s/he grows up and learns about the fact that they are adopted, thay will think their mom didnt love them but the truth is, they did. thay love them so much they gave them up. to be with a better family,have abetterlife. so do not abort. just have the child and adopt it out. and when you ARE ready for a child,have one...

reply from: yoda

MAD, it's interesting that the younger a person is, the less they seem to like abortion. Although they can't talk, I'll bet that unborn babies don't like it either.

reply from: MADaboutTHIS

thank youyodavater! i am glad someone can relate to my opinion

reply from: mom5

MAD - it's great to hear from young people such as yourself speaking up for the unborn.

Welcome to Pro-Life!

reply from: Dermon

You are very clouded by ill-formed emotions. So, I'm just going to go through and correct your mistakes if you don't mind.

1) It is not a baby. IT IS A FETUS!!! Fetus and baby are two completely different things. Fetus=Unborn=Not alive. Baby=Born=Alive. Fetus =/= Baby; theefore Abortion=/=Murder. Easy.

2) You say you can't stand to look at the "mangled bodies" of the fetuses? What do you call packaged meat? They do all of these things to a cow or chickeen, while they are still alive and concious of everything. The fetus has no emotions feelings or thoughts which is why they have abortions during that time. You don't see anyone slitting a newborn's throat do you?

3) Of course they burn the fetuses! How would you feel if they put the fetuses in jar and sold them as souvineers? What else are the supposed to do?

4) I swear if I hear the word adoption one more time, I'll scream.If there are so many damn couples who want a baby, hy is it that currently, oonly 6% of orphans are adopted? This means that 94% of these children are either stuffd in an overcrowded orphanage, or bounced from one unstable home o the next. And what does that do to the woman? The constant morning sickness and mood and physical changes for 9 months. Not to mention the permenant changes in you after having a baby.

And in case you couldn't tell, I'm pro-choice.

reply from: AshMarie88

Preborn DOES NOT mean "not alive". It simply means not born yet.

There is NOTHING wrong with eating meat to survive.

Umm... abortionists DO put those dead "fetuses" in jars, and they sell them so labs can experiment on them...

My friend was adopted. Should she have been aborted?

No, you're pro-abortion.

reply from: Dermon

1) Definition of Born: To be brought to life. Unborn=Opposite of born. Conclusion: If you hav no been born, you are not alive. Easy.

2) Tell that to all those PETA members. Don't tell me. I just finished off a turkey sandwich while my dad feasted on pork chiterlings.

3) Okay, first off, something we just have to establish: NOONE IS pro-abortion. PRO-CHOICE=/= PRO-ABORTION. When most pro-choicers were asked if they would ever get an abortion. %7% said no, but if someone else gets one, that's THEIR business. Second, that girl just said they burned them. So do we burn them, put them in a jar or both? I really don't care. THEY'RE FETUSES. GET OVER IT.

4) Great for your friend. She was one of the lucky 6/100. But I do notice that you didn't mention the other 94/100. Strange... Anyway, I never said (in my entire life) that children who are going to be put off for adoption should have been aborted. But to say that if women who don't want children to just put them up for adoption like it's some cure-all method is insane. Since Roe vs. Wade, just in America, there have been over 40 million abortions. Had all those fetuses been born and then put up for adoption, over 40 million people would have been added to that 94/100making only 2.5/100 children to be adopted. Is that what you really want? How mean is that?

5) If I'm pro-abortion, then I'm also a mexican-asian, bulimic, jewish girl from the southern region of South Africa. Note: I'm a black, church of christ, boy from Atlanta. Don't tell me what I am. I can handle that.

reply from: ForLife

Fetus means unborn young. Unborn does not mean dead. The unborn human being is very much alive.

My brother's wife had been promiscous when young. Due to HPV she was unable to carry and had life threatening cervical cancer and ectopic pregnancies (in the Fallopian tubes). They have adopted and treat the little girl like a princess.

Killing living unborn children because mom and dad don't want to be responsible makes those parents low-lifers.

reply from: AshMarie88

1) Definition of Born: To be brought to life. Unborn=Opposite of born. Conclusion: If you hav no been born, you are not alive. Easy.

2) Tell that to all those PETA members. Don't tell me. I just finished off a turkey sandwich while my dad feasted on pork chiterlings.

3) Okay, first off, something we just have to establish: NOONE IS pro-abortion. PRO-CHOICE=/= PRO-ABORTION. When most pro-choicers were asked if they would ever get an abortion. %7% said no, but if someone else gets one, that's THEIR business. Second, that girl just said they burned them. So do we burn them, put them in a jar or both? I really don't care. THEY'RE FETUSES. GET OVER IT.

4) Great for your friend. She was one of the lucky 6/100. But I do notice that you didn't mention the other 94/100. Strange... Anyway, I never said (in my entire life) that children who are going to be put off for adoption should have been aborted. But to say that if women who don't want children to just put them up for adoption like it's some cure-all method is insane. Since Roe vs. Wade, just in America, there have been over 40 million abortions. Had all those fetuses been born and then put up for adoption, over 40 million people would have been added to that 94/100making only 2.5/100 children to be adopted. Is that what you really want? How mean is that?

5) If I'm pro-abortion, then I'm also a mexican-asian, bulimic, jewish girl from the southern region of South Africa. Note: I'm a black, church of christ, boy from Atlanta. Don't tell me what I am. I can handle that.

Many people say the fetus is not alive yet, but it is. The reasons for this are:

1) The fetus Exhibits movement. Internal movement in most cases vs. locomotion.

2) The fetus Achieves growth. Organisms grow by assimiliation

3) The fetus Reproduces or has the potential to

4) The fetus Comes from similiar pre existing life

5) The fetus Has similiar chemical makeup

6) The fetus Is composed of cells

7) The fetus Exhibits irritability, responds to enviroment

8) The fetus Requires energy

9) The fetus Maintains a high level of organization

10) The fetus Faces death

reply from: galen

I don't know where you get YOUR adoption stats....
I work in an unwed mothers crisis shelter... we have yet not had a child or baby go unadopted... if anything these children are antched up and 25 sets of prospective parents are left behind to look for another child. I know that the foster care system is overloaded... but for the most part those children are NOt up for adoption( that is another gripe of mine). The few ( statisticly so) that are up for adoption for several years, tend to be older children that require much therapy because of abuse, or ones that have severe handicapps, and are also older. It is my experience that even handicapp infants are often adopted out quickly, when put up for adoption directly after birth.... so in this case I do not see that your argument applies.

Mary

reply from: Dermon

Who said unborn meant dead? The fetus just is't alive yet.

Why do I care?

Unborn organisms are not alive yet makes it impossible for them to be living.

Withdrawal - Failure rate: 20-30%.
Rhythm Method - Ideal failure rate: 10%. Typical failure rate: 15-25%.
The Pill (female) - Ideal failure rate: 0.5%. Typical failure rate: 2%.
Emergency Contraception (female) - Ideal failure rate: 1%. Typical failure rate: 3-5%.
Gels and Foams - Ideal failure rate: 5%. Typical failure rate: 15%.
Condom (male) - Ideal failure rate: 2%. Typical failure rate: 10%
Female Condom - Ideal failure rate: 3%. Typical failure rate: 10-15%.
Cervical Caps and Diaphragms (female) - Ideal failure rate: 2%. Typical failure rate: 10-15%.
IUD (Intrauterine Device) - Ideal failure rate: 1-2%. Typical failure rate: 4%.
The Sponge (female) - Ideal failure rate: 5%. Typical failure rate: 15-20%.
Vasectomy (male) - Failure rate: 0.15%
Tubal Litigation (female) - Failure rate: 0.04%.

Above are all the methods responsible couples use to keep from geting pregnant, given that some work way worse than others. Sort of odd that even when someone gets their tubes tied, that they can still get pregnant, no? 57% of people who got an abortionused protection. THAT MEANS ITS NOT THEIR FUALT!!!

Side Note: They would be parents or moms or dads if they got an abortion.

reply from: Dermon

And it does all of that by direct parasitism from the mother. I challenge you to remove a 2 week old fetus, and give it all the things you would a baby and see how long it lives.

reply from: Dermon

127,000 children are adopted each year. There's no way we're ready for 40 million more.

reply from: galen

ever hear of birth controll.... only about 1% are due to rape and/ or incest.... the rest are due to sexual intercourse. Sorry but before we had this quick fix to the problem people were a lot more careful.... just look at the birth rates in the 50's and 60's... and the # of " back alley abortions" was relatively low. If you were a person who truely needed termination due to a medical reason, then your doctor could preform such in the local hospital without fear of prosecution. ( yes I do have knowledge of this, my husband's father was an OB/GYN from that era.)

Mary

reply from: Dermon

127,000 children are adopted each year. There's no way we're ready for 40 million more.

I'm sorry. This mustsound way over blown. It would be a bit more than 1 million children per year. That's still alot, but not as my initial post seemed.

reply from: MADaboutTHIS

i know he is a pro-choicer and i shouldnt belive him {{and not because of that}} but dermon gives the adoption stats so ask him wherehegot the stats!

reply from: domsmom

It's not the babies fault either. So why should it be killed again? Cause the mom wants to?

I had no idea there was an in-between! I thought their was only life or death.

I suppose I'll have to come to terms with the fact that there are going to be people who think killing babies/fetuses (whatever, they ARE baby humans) is just fine and dandy

reply from: AshMarie88

And it does all of that by direct parasitism from the mother. I challenge you to remove a 2 week old fetus, and give it all the things you would a baby and see how long it lives.

Yes, it won't live if you take it out right away.

But by the mother keeping it alive with her body... doesn't that mean the fetus IS indeed alive?

reply from: AshMarie88

Tell me, why is the fetus NOT alive yet? Give me some backed up research how it's not (and nothing that says it's "not alive because it has not been born yet")

reply from: Dermon

Yes and 1/50 people get pregnant anyway.

During the 50's and 60's, the entire media wasn't based on sex. Haven't you ever heard of sex sells? We arebombarded with these images that sex is okay unlike anything of the past.

reply from: Dermon

She isn't keeping it alive, she is growing and developing the fetus just as if she is growing and developing another organ in her body.

Of course not.

reply from: ForLife

Dermon: I don't know what to make of your insistence that a human being is not alive before birth; except to say it is unreasonable. I don't know if there is any one else that holds such an extreme position. What is magical about birth that suddenly brings one to life?

The difference between pre and post birth is how nutrition and fluids are received. Before birth nutrition and fluids are received through and umbilical cord. After birth, the cord is cut and nutrition and fluids must come through the child's mouth. It's a good system God designed to take care of the growing human being during the first nine months of life. Growth continues after the first nine months also.

What is magical about birth? It's a milestone; like getting one's first teeth or the onset of puberty. None of these events suddenly make you alive; and most certainly, birth does not make one alive. It is an arbitary date.

You are covering your eyes to the fact that a person is already alive long before the birthing process. Why does a person have such an agenda to deliberately ignore the facts?

I just noted that in another post of yours you said the fetus is like another growing organ in the woman's body. Your answers are way off in outer space. One living person should not be compared to another person's organs. There is no comparison. It makes no sense.

reply from: Dermon

Fetus are not alive for the same reason thet viri aren't alive (not saying that a fetus is a virus of course). They cannot carry out any functions without being completly enveloped in their host, which in this case would be the mother. It cannot do anything on it's own so is therefore, not alive.

reply from: AshMarie88

Fetus are not alive for the same reason thet viri aren't alive (not saying that a fetus is a virus of course). They cannot carry out any functions without being completly enveloped in their host, which in this case would be the mother. It cannot do anything on it's own so is therefore, not alive.

... What about people on life support? They can't do anything on their own (bodily wise).

reply from: ForLife

Dermon's responses are completely illogical and have no basis in reality. Why even respond to such crazy ideas as his?

reply from: AshMarie88

Yea I know... but to see him so uneducated, it drives me insane.

reply from: galen

HMMMM sooooo killing our offspring is the answer??
Maybe a change in culture is the answer, and more personal responsibility for our actions. Make no mistake, for whatever other reasons a couple has sex, well they must take on the responsibility that a pregnancy might be the outcome, and if they are not prepared for this eventuality than there is a very good reason NOT to have intercourse. Its not just a quick orgasm, it is an emotional experience, and one that when treated lightly tends to have very unpleasant outcomes ie; depression, breakup, unwanted pregnancy, STD's.

As far as the fetus being just like another organ the woman grows in her body, I think a look at 6th grade biology will tell you that is not the case. The fetus (child) has its own seprate DNA code, its own bloodstream, immune system etc. Except in a few very rare cases of Rh problems, the mothers blood and that of the child do not, for the most part mix.( i think that 1 in 10 million of the baby's cells might pass the placental barrier) In every ethical study that I have seen for any other question, that makes the child growing inside the mother ( at whatever stage) a seprate individual. Apart from the mother's body.

It is more of a symbiotic relationship than a parasitical one. For the mother's body is doing what it was made to do... and her life cycle ( hormones and stages of growth and death) benefit from the process following to completion. So far I have not seen any scientific evidence that shows stopping the process in a normal healthy woman is of any benefit. The only time that comes into play is when there is a case of toxiemia or liver/ kidney disease, and 99 % of the time the child can be born prematurely but healthy with no need to preform an AB. (though possible I have also seen very few women ,.2% that have any of the above named complications during the 1st trimester.)

I have seen a few women who have aborted because of CA ( cancer) in their own bodies and the need for chemotherapy, that would otherwise kill the pregnancy. More often than not though these mothers end up continuing the pregnancy in order to save the child's life and then procede w/ treatment. It has also been my experience that we are getting better and better at curing these women late term.

Soooo

Mary

reply from: Tam

Yea I know... but to see him so uneducated, it drives me insane.

Yeah, I find it really tempting to go through and disprove all the errors in his posts, as well, but I just don't have the time today! (So much nonsense, so little time!) But if possible, I will come back to this thread in the future, because there is so much material here screaming out to be dealt with. This new poster is certainly arrogant, for someone who knows so little. Reminds me of a couple other posters I've seen here and elsewhere.

"It's not a baby, it's not alive" etc. LOL These are the things they tell themselves that enable them to continue to be pro-abortion (yeah, I said it). And there are two sorts of person--the sort who, when it becomes clear that the pro-choice position is specious, abandons it, and the sort of person who, when it becomes clear, continues tenaciously to hold to that position, resorting to intellectual dishonesty in order to do so. I think this is because abortion "rights" are so entrenched in our culture that (despite strong opposition) in many parts of our society, to support life for the unborn means you are excommunicated from your social group, treated as a leper. There are persons for whom saving face is more important than saving lives--and then there are prolifers.

reply from: yoda

I compliment you on your choice of screen name. Very appropriate.

Your homemade, illogical, idiotic, unsupported, downright stupid definitions aside, the word baby does indeed apply to unborn humans:

MSN-Encarta Online: ( http://dictionary.msn.com/find/entry.asp?search=baby ) ba·by noun (plural ba·bies) 2. unborn child: a child that is still in the womb

Dictionary.com ( http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=baby ) ba·by (bb) n. pl. ba·bies 2. An unborn child; a fetus.

iNFOPLEASE.com ( http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0330371.html ) ba•by pronunciation: (bA'bE), -n. 5. a human fetus.

INTELLIHEALTH: "Month 2: Measures 14-20mm from crown to rump. The baby's heart, although not fully formed, begins to beat and is visible. Medical content reviewed by the Faculty of the Harvard Medical School. Last updated August 14, 2004.
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH?t=25666&p=~br,RNM|~st,331|~r,WSRNM000|~b,*|

BIOTECH Life Sciences Dictionary: http://biotech.icmb.utexas.edu/search/dict-search.mhtml?bo1=OR&word=&search_type=normal&def=baby 2. Edward's Syndrome ( Edwards' syndrome, trisomy 18, trisomy E) Definition:

A congenital disorder caused by a baby having an extra copy of chromosome 18 (three instead of the normal two). Characteristics of the disorder include a large number of different malformed organs and malformed physical features of the face and skeletal structure. In most cases, the child dies before it is born; 90% of babies born live die within a year of birth. Symptoms may be less severe when the trisomy occurs after fertilization during mitosis in the zygote (10% of cases), than when the trisomy occurs during the meiosis which produced the egg or sperm (90% of cases).

For more information, visit http://www.icondata.com/health/pedbase/files/TRISOMY2.HTM.

reply from: yoda

You just make them up as you go, don't you? The sense of the word "life" in that definition is expressed in the #3 definition here:

life • noun (pl. lives) 1 the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth and functional activity. 2 the existence of an individual human being or animal. 3 a particular type or aspect of people’s existence: school life. 4 living things and their activity. http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/life?view=uk

Ergo, a person's "born life" begins at birth. Before birth, unborn life fits the other definitions, as well as:

life Biology. the fact of being alive; the condition that distingushes organisms such as humans, animals, and plants from inorganic matter and from dead organisms. Organisms that have life generally share powers and functions such as the following: a specific and identifiable structure or organization; the ability to move from one location to another or to carry on internal movement; the capacity for metabolism, reproduction, and growth; the ability to detect the conditions of the surrounding environment and respond to them; and the ability to adapt to long-term changes in this environment. (Harcourt)

Main Entry: life-form Pronunciation: 'lIf-'form, -"form Function: noun
: the body form that characterizes a kind of organism (as a species) at maturity; also : a kind of organism
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=life-form

Main Entry: liv·ing Function: adjective 1 a : having life b : ACTIVE, FUNCTIONING <living languages>2 a : exhibiting the life or motion of nature http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=living&x=0&y=0 .

DO YOU NOT "favor legal access to abortion"?? YES OR NO???

pro-a·bor·tion adjective - favoring legal access to abortion: in favor of open legal access to voluntary abortion http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861736813
pro-abortion SYLLABICATION: pro-a·bor·tion PRONUNCIATION: pr-bôrshn ADJECTIVE: Favoring or supporting legalized abortion. http://www.bartleby.com/61/27/P0572700.html
Main Entry: pro·abor·tion Pronunciation: (')prO-&-'bor-sh&n Function: adjective : favoring the legalization of abortion -pro·abor·tion·ist /-sh(&-)n&st/ noun http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pro-abortion

For additonal reading, try these:

Unborn child From Black's Law Dictionary, 5th Ed.: The individual human life in existence and developing from fertilization until birth.
Unborn child: A viable unborn child, which would have been born alive but for the negligence of defendant, is a "person" within meaning of Wrongful Death Statute. (Black's Law Dictionary, 5th Ed.; Simmons v Howard University, D.C.D.C., 323 F.Supp. 529) Unborn child is a "person" for purpose of remedies given for personal injuries, and child may sue after his birth. (Black's Law Dictionary, 5th Ed.; Weaks v Mounter, 88 Nev. 118, 493 P.2d 1307, 1309)
Rights of unborn child: Medical authority has recognized long since that a child is in existence (i.e. alive) from the moment of conception, and for many purposes its existence is recognized by the law. The criminal law regards it as a separate entity, and the law of property considers it in being for all purposes which are to its benefit, such taking by will or descent. In addition, the child, if he is born alive, is permitted to maintain an action for the consequences of prenatal injuries, and if he dies of such injuries after birth an action will lie for his wrongful death. Many states have allowed recovery even though the injury occurred during the early weeks of pregnancy, when the child was neither viable nor quick. (Black's Law Dictionary, 5th Ed.; Sylvia v Gobeille, 1966, 101 R.I. 76, 220 A.2d 222; Hornbuckle v Plantation Pipe Line Co., 1956 212 Ga. 504, 93 S.E.2d 727, conformed to 94 Ga. App.2d 328, 94 S.E.2d 523; Bennett v Hymers, 1958, 101 N.H. 483, 147 A.2d 108; Sinkler v Kneale, 1960, 401 Pa. 267, 164 A.2d 93; Smith v Brennan, 1960, 31 N.J. 353, 157 A.2d 497)

reply from: yoda

Are you now claiming that all parasites are "not alive"? What's the source of that "wisdom"?

"How long it lives"????? Are you now admitting that a 2 week old (embryo) IS "living"?

Really, you are becoming VERY inconsistent.

reply from: yoda

What a wierdly inconsistent statment! Are organs of a living person not "alive"? Do YOU have dead organs within YOU?

And by your "just as if" statement, you seem to be admitting that an unborn baby is NOT an organ, is that right?

reply from: yoda

Neither can a newborn. Are they all dead too?

reply from: yoda

Good question. I can think of two reasons: One, to encourage him to illustrate how very illogical the proabort positions is, and two, to reward him for being honest about his intentions here.

reply from: Tam

You just make them up as you go, don't you? The sense of the word "life" in that definition is expressed in the #3 definition here:

life • noun (pl. lives) 1 the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth and functional activity. 2 the existence of an individual human being or animal. 3 a particular type or aspect of people’s existence: school life. 4 living things and their activity. http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/life?view=uk

Ergo, a person's "born life" begins at birth.

Actually, I think that the meaning of "born" as "brought to life" is more about usages such as "The concept for her small business was born when Maria realized that there was no such service available in her area." In that usage, "born" has nothing to do with the life of a human being or any other living being, but rather the "life" of an inanimate object or an intangible such as an idea. The word "born" is used in this sense fairly often, and this should not have confused Dermon so much. There is no sense in which the unborn child is not "alive." This is not a matter of political opinion or emotional impact, but a matter of indisputable biological fact. The unborn child IS alive, IS a human being, IS a child, and IS killed in an abortion (well, a successful one, anyway!). Now, if Dermon wants to argue that in his OPINION, that act is not immoral, or is immoral but should be legal anyway, that is his right. But to pretend that abortion is not killing a living human child is a lie--and it is that lie that will catch up to him eventually. Will he be receptive to the truth, or will he prefer to engage in the intellectual dishonesty we have seen so frequently on this forum? Only time will tell.

Let's see, Dermon. If I were a gambler, I'd put my money on "intellectually dishonest"--but I would be truly delighted for you to disprove that by actually being willing to separate facts from opinion, sort out the correct facts, and then restate your opinion with those facts in mind. If you disagree about the facts, we can easily debate them--just don't ask me to take your word for anything, and I won't ask you to take mine. I will refer to respected works of reference to prove what I say is fact, and I expect the same of you. If your plan is to come here and spew a bunch of lies and expect us to say, "Oh, well, there, that's how it must be, then!" you will be rather disappointed. If you can prove me wrong about something, do it in an upright and honest fashion. If you are going to resort to dishonesty, I am not going to bother debating with you, period.

Before I waste a single post trying to debate with you, let's see what sort of person you are. That is what this post is designed to ascertain. If you are intellectually honest, you will either admit that the unborn child is a living human being whose life is ended when s/he is killed in an abortion, OR offer an argument with which you hope to prove that the unborn child is NOT a living human being whose life is ended when s/he is killed in an abortion. If you are intellectually dishonest, you will either ignore me, insult me, attack or threaten me, twist around what I've said in an effort to debate a strawman, or respond in some way that makes you think you've really put me in my place but which does nothing to address any actual debating points. What's it going to be? If it's the latter, I'm not wasting my time "debating" you.

I am tired of wasting time debating people who can't admit when they've been proven wrong and would rather resort to intellectual dishonesty in order to make themselves feel they've "won" in some way. I have been known to give second chances--if you look through the archives, you'll probably notice that--but I am tired of wasting my time, and I'm busy. So you get one chance. I know my tone is a bit skeptical, but your posts are not encouraging--I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for you to produce an argument or admit you don't have one. HOWEVER, if you turn out to be intellectually honest, I suspect you will find that I will become an ally rather than an opponent.

reply from: bradensmommy

Soooo...I suppose the kicking, hiccuping, and jerky movements where all a figment of my imagination seeming that my son was magically alive the day he was born? Very ignorant statements there...I think you are better off with the rest of the Lollipop guild in the city of Oz. ...or possibly back to school to earn a high school deploma... I don't know....

reply from: yoda

It's both things. There is what you describe, and there is also a sense of the word "life" which refers to the period from birth to death, but that is an adjective which describes the chronological occurences of one's "born existence", not the biological quality of being alive.

I rather expect Demon to be a one-shot irritation.

reply from: chantistar

You know what? I've been reading all your posts and I have one thing to ask you:

WHAT is the point of a uterus?

ALSO, what is the point of your VIEW? You say you are a Church of CHRIST member, well, does Jesus

tell you that your views are in direct accordance to his? You need to pop that bubble you're living in.

You're obviously very insecure, very bitter, very angry, and a very sad, sad person. AND arrogant

reply from: chantistar

GREAT POINT GIRL!!! LOL

reply from: chantistar

Excellent point. I know from experience that they cannot do ANYTHING on their own. It is a very HARD JOB, harder than any 8-5 job you will ever experience.

reply from: galen

TY, so do you.

Mary

reply from: chantistar

You can't grow another organ lmfao. Are you that old in your emoticon? You need some serious re-evaluation. I really hope you're not just being an ass for amusement.

So, you're going to tell every pregnant woman that when her BABY kicks her, that it's not alive?

reply from: chantistar

If the fetus isn't alive yet why is there a heart rate? Do dead things have heart beats? Do corpses have heart beats? Aren't corpses human, yet their heart's don't beat????? Come on!! LMFAO!

Why does a fetus have fingerprints?

Why does the fetus urinate?

Why does the fetus cry, laugh, yawn, suck his thumb, hiccup (my favourite)?

Why does he run his arm across a woman's belly and you can visually see that happen?

Why does the fetus kick his mother's ribs?

Why does the mother gain 25-35lbs if he isn't alive? What is she carrying in there if it's dead?

So, you weren't alive before you were born? )) lmfao Is that what your mother told you?

Why is the fetus moving on a sonogram screen?

Why does a fetus turn head down before he's born? Is he DEAD and STUPID?

Why does the fetus send hormones to the mother's brain to start her contractions? Do dead things send out hormones?

Oh my gosh, you are the dumbest person I have ever had the pleasure to read.

reply from: chantistar

No, don't do that. Just kill them with facts

reply from: shady1080

Original:by

Dermon
"3)Okay, first off, something we just have to establish: NOONE IS pro-abortion. PRO-CHOICE=/= PRO-ABORTION. When most pro-choicers were asked if they would ever get an abortion. %7% said no, but if someone else gets one, that's THEIR business. Second, that girl just said they burned them. So do we burn them, put them in a jar or both? I really don't care. THEY'RE FETUSES. GET OVER IT."

You were once a fetus weren't you? Everyone on this planet has to be a fetus before they can become a little boy or girl or a grown man or woman. That's life. I don't know of one person who just popped out
of nowhere as a full grown 30 year old man. Do you? So how can you go and say "THEY'RE FETUSES, GET OVER IT" ? I'm sure if you were that fetus right now you wouldn't be saying that, would you?
You obviously have no knowledge for abortion ( "So do we burn them, put them in a jar or both?")
so how the hell do you think you can defend it? Don't take a stand on something you know nothing about!

I don't know when you were born but I was born in 1987, meaning that my mom could have aborted me for any reason at all! Where the hell were my rights to life,as stated in the constitution,when my mom was pregnant with me? And please, don't go saying that I wasn't alive, because I was, my heart began beating at 28 days, I sucked my thumb at 3 months and how could I have sucked my thumb at 3 months if I didn't grow my thumb first in the previous months? And how could I be a 17 year-old senior in high school if I was not once an embryo, fetus, infant, and child? Take a bio medical class and come back here and tell me that I wasn't alive as a fetus or any human being in this world was not alive as a fetus.
I was alive and I deserved every right stated in the constitution. But instead of having the basic right- the right to LIFE- I am here, alive today, because I was lucky enough to have a mother who didn't believe in abortion. Anyways, were you born after 1973 or before? If after, I suggest you look at your own life and thank your mom for being prolife.

And there is a such thing as Pro-Abortion. Many groups who fight for abortion rights don't give a damn about women's rights, all they care about is the money they make off of the blood of aborted babies. Look it up on the internet. Pro-Choice is just a cover up for pro-abortion. As far as abortion goes, 99% of them are the result of women who CHOSE TO HAVE SEX, knowing that that is how a baby is made. THEIR RIGHT TO CHOOSE WAS MADE WHEN THEY CHOSE TO HAVE SEX. The innocent human being who was conceived deserves a choice of his/her own.

After saying all this, I suggest you educate yourself on both sides of the abortion issue- pro-life and pro-choice- and the actual procedure itself, before you go and defend it. I'm starting to wonder if the men and women who sat on the Supreme Court in 1973 had the same mentality as you, dermon.

reply from: scopia1982

Fetus are not alive for the same reason thet viri aren't alive (not saying that a fetus is a virus of course). They cannot carry out any functions without being completly enveloped in their host, which in this case would be the mother. It cannot do anything on it's own so is therefore, not alive.

A newborn cannot do anything on its own, my two year old son cannot survivie on his own, even teenagers cannot survive on their own. They are dependent on their parents. So does that mean they can be killed also? This IMO is the weakest most pathetic reason you proaborts used to justify abortion.

reply from: shady1080

If a fetus were not alive it would not be growing. The fetus is growing so, yes, it is alive. And if it weren't alive, there wouldn't be a procedure that killed it.
A fetus has a mind and body of it's own, unlike an organ. A comparison of the two is bizarre!

reply from: tabithamarcotte

You're not alone...I'm 14 and yet that just goes to show that a mere adolescent who just started high school can be more sensible than even the oldest pro-choice advocate. Not to brag...but hey, pro-life people in general are more intelligent than any pro-choicer.

reply from: yoda

Even the very youngest of children can sense when someone has "evil" intentions, just like many pets can. And the phrase "out of the mouths of babes" is more true than not.

reply from: Geicoed

Excuse me, but I'm 14 here as well.
@Mad: What you just typed look like complete rubbish. Please atleast learn some grammer. As for how could they do that? The mangled bodies of those babies etc.etc. I agree that it's not pretty, but neither is heart surgery. Heck why not start an anti heart sugery protest as well.

@Yodavatar first comment "MAD, it's interesting that the younger a person is, the less they seem to like abortion. Although they can't talk, I'll bet that unborn babies don't like it either. "

The younger the person is, the less they seem to like abortion.. Geez well think about it, younger people can't handle a picture of a mangle baby that well. Most of them base their opinions on being Pro Life because of that. Just because a clump of fetus is in a shape of a baby's body? Really now, just emotions being swayed by it.

For the terms of when life begins, it's all on opinion. Most pro choice people believe it beings when you are cut from the umbecial(sp?) cord and being given birth, then you are human. Some think that it's when you have a heart rate and own DNA.

reply from: pray4em

MADabout THIS,
It's not the quantity of what you know it is the quality of what you know, so don't sell yorself short. Many people find abortion pctures disturbing, but few people speak up against it, so again don't sell yourself short. I think you know a great deal.

reply from: yoda

Then tell me please, what exactly is wrong with being guided by honest emotions? If for example someone feels a revulsion at the sight of something like the victims of the Holocaust, what fault do you find with that reaction?

No, it is not. It is dependent upon which sense of the term "life" you are using, nothing more. If you use the biological sense of the word, there can be no honest debate about the fact that life is a continuum, and each new living creature begins his/her existence at fertilization. If you use the social sense of the word "life", then that does begin at birth when a baby is able to interact with other people. But is is noteworthy that many proaborts try to confuse the two senses, and claim that the fact that a person's social life has not yet begun means they are not yet alive in the biological sense........ which is of course a bald-face lie.

reply from: shady1080

A heart is an organ in the body and surgery on it is done to save the life of the person. Abortion is done to kill a person. A baby is not an organ, it is a developing human being, just as you were when you were in your own mother's womb.
Why do you compare the two?

reply from: tabithamarcotte

The thing is, heart surgery is SAVING people, while abortion is KILLING people.

Yodavater's right. What' wrong with being "swayed by emotion"? I have been known to vomit when I see a picture of an aborted baby. I see the evil that caused that tragedy. Children see that too.

It is indeed a PROVEN FACT that biological life begins at conception. Social life can apply to unborn babies, too. They interact with their mother by kicking, punching, etc., just not until later.

reply from: Choicer

Shall we do this the scientific way?
Lets do the Mrs Gren Back to school. Easiest way to tell if somethings alive.

All living things show:
Movement
Respiration
Sensitivity

Growth
Reproduction
Excretion
Nutrition

From before fertilisation the uhh components to make the baby do move, so check.

Respiration doesn't really take place until attachment does it? Can't be sure on this one, Mrs Gren is as scientific as I get.

Sensitivity.... Hmmm. ) I think that comes on gradually doesnt it?

Growth - Check!

Reproduction - eventually....

Excretion - After attachment.

Nutrition - After attachment.

By those reasonings a fetus seems to be alive. Whee! But an egg before the attachment isnt. Id agree with that.

reply from: Geicoed

@yodavatar: Being guided from honest emotions? That's fine, but to be more clearly. I meant don't choose to be Pro Life or Pro Choice just by some pictures or someone else's opinion. Choose your own opinions, but be more clear about it.

"A heart is an organ in the body and surgery on it is done to save the life of the person. Abortion is done to kill a person. A baby is not an organ, it is a developing human being, just as you were when you were in your own mother's womb.
Why do you compare the two? "

They're both still surgeries, as for killing a "person". Is the fetus really an indivdual person?

"The thing is, heart surgery is SAVING people, while abortion is KILLING people."

Yeah Abortion is killing what may be the future of people. But it's also supporting the choice of the mother.

Even if it's a proven scientific fact when biological life begins. Don't you think that some people would just, geez maybe refuse to believe that?

reply from: yoda

Do you put your brain in idle before you go through these exercises in futility? Do you seriously expect us to believe that ANY living organism was at one time "dead"?

Are you seriously telling us that you are not aware that life itself is a continuum?

reply from: yoda

What you are trying to say here escapes me. Can you make it a bit more lucid?

How can any honest, intelligent "person" ask that question? The only explanation I can think of is that you wish to hide behind the legal definition of person, rather than recognize the much older, much more widely used vernacular sense of the word.

Just like killing a born child also supports the "choice of the mother"?

Yes. We have experienced every possible denial of scientific fact you could think of by proaborts.

reply from: Choicer

Shhhh Yodavater. Calm down. There there. Dont want your blood pressure to rocket.

I am alive but once I was not alive. Perhaps you have, but i havent been alive forever.

reply from: yoda

What a disappointing response. Were you ever dead? Was the sperm and the egg from which you were created alive? Was there ever a time when YOU existed in a state OTHER THAN alive?????

reply from: galen

ok ok just remember that this person we are speaking to is 14... remember being 14. You can't drive , you can't drink, you live at the whim of adults, and your brain is still growing. according to the latest studies the brain of a teenager is running on emotion... all the time. By G's own definition even he ( or she) is not finished yet. so lets get some things straight.

G:

When you have finished biology class either this year or next you need to decide what and individual is.
Then you need to decide if you feel that all killing is wrong, or just some killing.
then you need to go to your history text and read about Hitler, Stalin, Moa, Pol- Pot, the last 2 leaders of North Korea, and do some seroius searching through Marx.

You may also find your answers in Huck Finn, La Amistaad, and the stories of Maya Angelou.

When you have done so come back to what you wrote here and re justify your opinion. It may just have changed. It seems to me that most of what you said previously was the same stuff that i hear from most kids your age who listen to what all their freinds say.

Never let anyone, even the mass media( or me ) tell you what to think.

Mary

reply from: yoda

Well at least we are speaking to someone who SAYS they are 14.

reply from: galen

True, but they certainly do seem to be.... the logic fits.

Mary

reply from: Geicoed

Hey I said that I was 14, but whatever you guys believe it or not it's up to you.

I listen to my friends opinions, why do you think that I came here? I came here to listen from a Pro Life's point of view. Currently I am Pro Choice, bceause I believe that way is the best. A woman can choose or not to choose to have a baby. I understand that some people don't agree to that.

Do YOU put your brain in idle? I never said that myself that I don't believe the scientific proven fact when biological life begun. I merely said

I never said myself never believed that, I just stated that SOME people. I never said myself.

To say it more directly. What I meant to say was that don't base off your opinion on abortion just on pictures.

The baby is still connected to the mother. It's part of the mom. I don't think a baby is an indvidual human til it's born and cut from the cord. I don't care if it has it's own brain waves, it's own DNAs still part of the mom :/

Politically I'm Pro Choice, but personally if I was pregnant I would keep th baby. But I don't want to be politically pro life to strip other woman's choice to do what they choose to do

reply from: yoda

I see you like to dabble in tired old proabort cliches. Very well, is a tapeworm or a tick a "part of" the body they are attached to?

Do you want to strip other woman's choice to kill their born babies?

reply from: wewillconeday

Why does a mother have an abortion?

reply from: ForLife

To get rid of her "problem". She has other pursuits to follow. No one wants to be responsible for taking care of the new living human being.

reply from: galen

well keep reading here...
Just remember that when we turn our heads from what is wrong, it is just the same thing as condoning it.
When that happens it becomes part of our society.

When Hitler came after the Jews, i didn't protest because i wasn't a Jew.
When they came for the old i didn't protest because i wasn't old.
When they came for the feeble minded i didn't protest because i wasn't feeble minded.
When they came for the Catholics i didn't protest because I wasn't Catholic.
When they came for me ..... there was no one left to protest.

Or something along that vein.

Mary

reply from: yoda

To kill a child of hers that is "inconvenient" to her.

reply from: Asura052

I Have a question, have any of you ever had an abortion? Because I dont think anyone knows what they are talking about untill they have gone through it. I live in the slums of a very poor city and more than 50% of women that get pregnant get abortions for the better of the whole population in my city. Yes adoption is always a option and I support that. but i think that the bigger picture here isn't just the selfish acts of a few women in America, its the whole. We would have millions of poor and homeless children, our economy would fail and burn under the pressure of dealing with that many children in our system. Soom we will be forced to adopt some sort of law preventing pregnency in the first place to stop overpopulation. My house in 10 feet from the next and that is how it is on the whole street and in most of the town, we have tons of single mothers that have young children and they sit at home on welfare and dont take care of a damn thing, do you want these people to have children? I know people that dont even love thier children because they ruined their lives if you all really want to say that abortion is wrong and should be overturned from our laws stop thinking of yourselfs and start thinking about our country. I think that Abortion is a great idea because it keeps our country balenced. Hispanics and black have the highest birth rate in america, they also have the highest drop out rate because of pregnancy, not many of them go to college or even get a highschool deploma. I think children do have the right to live but they do not have the right to ruin the life of a woman and our society. We all need to strive to be the best that we can be and with a small child weighing us down it cant work. Im sorry to break it to you all that are dead set against abortion but you all seem like selfish ignorant people to me. I have had an abortion and it was not painfull, I did not care what happened to it afterward, i thought of that child as the one thing that would ruin my life, if there was no abortion in america i would find another way, but if i have to give up the life of an unborn child that is smaller than my pinky nail for me to have a great life full of potential imma do it. If that makes me a bad person fine, but i am a happy person and i have the right to be happy with all of my decisons and you all have no right to force me to be another black girl that got pregnant and is on welfare living in a crappy town with no lawn and about 40 kids running around barefoot on her street. You all dont know what its like im sure, you all seem like the happy go lucky sit around and voice your opinion types, and untill i see you all, and i mean every woman that is against abortion adopt one child that was given up i dont want to hear your complaining about killing a little peice of tissue. You are all just hypocrits you want all these children to live but you dont adopt the ones that are sitting in foster homes or on the street. You all make me sick and i hope one day one of your young daughters or sons get pregnant or gets someone pregnant and we dont have abortion so you you can be one of the additional factors to america's demise.

reply from: yoda

No. Must I kill my own child to know that it's wrong? Must I kill an innocent human being to know that's a bad thing? Am I not qualified to want to protect innocent lives unless I have taken one?

New York City has a lot of murders, too, are those also "for the better of the whole population"?

If overpopulation is a reason to kill living human beings, why not kill the big ones instead? The big fat people eat a lot more, and they take up a lot more room. Why not kill them instead of the little babies?

So how do you let them live without "ruining your life"? Have you figured that one out yet?

You talk about your baby as if it was a dead weight, and then you call us "selfish"?

So you're satisfied to be a "bad person" by sacrificing your own child's life for your personal pleasure? And you call us "selfish"???? And you're satisfied with that?? That explains a lot.

Your profane outburst says volumes about you. You come here to brag about killing your own baby, and then you curse us? You represent baby-killers everywhere, don't you?

reply from: galen

I work in a women's shelter... spend a good portion of my time at night there and spend 80 % of my income on the moms there. We help women who are poor and destitute and abused keep their children or if they want to adopt them out. We help them get off drugs and alcohol nad even help them get a GED. When our moms leave this place they have jobs and apartments and healthcare and childcare and are not reliant to welfare for any of it. I have women come back to me year after year for GYN checks and to show off their son's and daughters.
I have never had an abortion myself, but during my first pregnancy, when i had no money, no support , and no education, In the deepest dqarkest part of me i considered it. I spent weeks crying myself to sleep in a dank 1 room apartment . What changed my mind was my Biology teacher.... i remembered that this person inside of me may have been borrowing me for a while, but they were a seprate individual. i realized that i needed to pull myself up from the floor and quit feeling sorry for myself. i told my husband I wanted to keep the child, and i went to church. Not to pray, ( at the time I wasn't too happy with God) but to ask for help. i vowed that if i got through this time in my life alive ( I was very near suicide) then i would help those people who helped me. And I have.
I became a nurse, and I teach at a local U. i spend my time w/ women who are like me , and so do both of my son's and my husband.

Mary

reply from: cali1981

We might not know what it feels like, but we don't need to have done something to know it is wrong. Do you think it's necessary for me to shoot someone to know THAT is wrong?

There is no basis for believing that. Abortion was illegal at one time and that didn't happen. More than likely, people would be more careful about getting pregnant if abortion was not an option!

Nobody has said that we WANT these people to have children. Being against abortion does not mean that. It means that such people should not be able to KILL chlidren that they ALREADY HAVE.

We are not thinking about "ourselfs." We are thinking about the children that are being killed by abortion.

This is a completely flawed view when the children do not ask to be created. Other people's actions do that. Once they are created they are helpless and deserve all the care and love that their parents have to give.

That child is just as important as you. No one should ever have the right to kill someone else for personal benefit. All human beings are EQUALLY IMPORTANT!!

What on earth does size have to do with it? Do larger people have more rights than smaller people just because they are larger? If someone loses weight should they also lose rights?

No person on earth, with the possible exception of a rapist, has the power to force you, or anyone else, to "be another black girl that got pregnant." No pro-lifer is telling you that you have to get pregnant. We are simply saying that it is wrong to kill your child once you ARE pregnant.

We might not know what poverty is like, but that doesn't mean we can't legitimately say that it is wrong to kill a child.

That makes no sense at all. First off, only a moron could see a sonogram image of an unborn child and dismiss it as mere tissue. Second of all, there are plenty of pro-lifers standing in line for the privilege of adopting a baby. Thrid of all, those pro-lifers who aren't on line for adopting a child are not excluded from being able to say abortion is wrong. Even if we don't have the financial means or other means to adopt a child, we can still say that killing said child is wrong. What about during the Holocaust...do you think it was okay for people to say that killing Jews was wrong, and oppose it, even if they couldn't let a Jew live with them? This whole argument is a fraud. We don't shut people out of issues just because they are not directly affected by them.

reply from: yoda

And you didn't try to solve your problems by standing on the corpse of your dead child! Isn't it macabre that some folks consider that's the way to go "up in this world"?

reply from: shady1080

By Asura052

What if your mom would have said "Abortion is a great idea"? How would you feel about that? I guess you woulndn't feel anything because you wouldn't be alive. But considering your whole comment, you not being alive would be a good thing considering your black. living in the slums, poor, etc.., right?
Why is it your opinion only counts when it's not considering yourself? It seems to me your the hypocritical one here.

As far as birth rates go 3 out of every 5 black babies are aborted. I guess you were just one of the lucky ones who didn't get aborted, but that something you don't realize and take for granted.

reply from: ForLife

You did not mention your husband in all of your post. A primary reason black women are in such financial binds is the men are not fulfilling their obligation to their family. There are a disproportionate number of black men who are not fulfilling their role to care for their family. There are more black children born to single mothers than in any other ethnic group. The culture has to change. Men need to step up to the plate and fulfil their obligation to their children and wife.

reply from: AshMarie88

Yea, they do have the choose of whether or not to have a baby.

But, they should not have the right to kill their already-conceived baby. A woman who aborts is a mother of a dead baby, so technically they do have children.

reply from: domsmom

Asura052~ I was raised by a VERY physically and mentaly abusive, alchoholic father. I mean, we got beat every day for things we had no control over. I'll never forget being hit with a rake handle because the dog got on his new truck and scratched it. I never got to go anywhere or do anything. When I turned 16 I ran away and was a crack-head all throughout my teen years. I guess I should have been aborted by your standards, huh? When I got pregnant at 20 I stopped doing drugs and was determined to take care of my baby the best way I could. I look at where I am now and am completely amazed! I have a loving faithful, husband and 4 AWESOME kids. My point is that things change so drastically in a life time. Thank God I didnt end up killed while I was on the streets because I love my life now. i could'nt be happier! (unless I had tons of money and babies were no longer slaughtered) If someone wants to take thier OWN life, so be it (not that I condone that). But no one should have the "right" to take someone elses.

reply from: bradensmommy

Just like I said to mychoice...

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read
Do you know how ignorant this post is?!?

reply from: Uruviel

Having the child and then giving it up for adoption will not "ruin" the mother's life and can dramatically enhance the life of childless parents who want to give a child the love and care it needs to flourish. There is no reason why women, poor, black, white, or otherwise, should have to raise children they do not want or cannot afford to raise.

But that does not mean they may kill them while still in their bodies. This just makes a woman a murderer. Nobody is forcing a woman to raise a child if she does not want it. I can appreciate this, I have never been pregnant by choice. As a matter of fact, I'm a virgin. And plan to stay that way. No I'm not a nun, lol! I'm a goal- and career-oriented person who made a decision not to be ruled by my uterus and ovaries for half my life. The only way to guarantee I won't become pregnant? Say NO to sex. Which is what I do. And I have a perfectly fulfilling life.

The only possible way I could become pregnant is if I was raped. Yes, I'd have the child. And hand it over for adoptive parents to raise immediately.

There is never an excuse for having an abortion.

reply from: Tam

Wow, domsmom, what an amazing story of courage and strength. You did what moms are supposed to do. As soon as you had a child, you were devoted to that child and stopped your self-destructive behavior -- and therefore the child probably saved your life, and you saved his (hers?)! That is really beautiful and thanks for sharing it.

reply from: Tam

oops--sorry, double post.

reply from: scopia1982

I have had an abortion, not by my "choice" but against my will.My ex told if I didnt "do the right thing" he would fix it to where I would never be able to have another one. To make a long story short, the abortionist once he got my ex 500 dollars didnt care what I wanted. I was on the table, I told them I wasnt going through with it, so did they honor my "choice'? No instead I was held down, given a general,(I am lucky I didnt apspirate my own vomit and choke on it and die) and my child aborted. My cervix was torn to shreds and my uterus scarred. I was able to have my son 2 years later, even though during my pregnancy I was on bedrest for fear of miscarriage or stillbirth. I had a very difficult birth with my son, because of the previous trauma , I was never able to heal from the birth and now I am barren. I have had on miscarriage. These are just the physical traumas, nothing compares to the emotional trauma I will suffer for the rest og my lie. Most women who abort do not want the abortion. It is demanded of her by either her partner, family or told it is either her job or education. Is that really a choice? I dont think so.

reply from: bradensmommy

wow, I'm so sorry to hear about that. I hope you got rid of that loser fast! Yeah, it seems that pro-choicers whine about not having a choice, but what about the women who are forced into it, what do the choicers say about that? Just doesn't seem right.

reply from: yoda

Thank you for your candid statement, scopia. I appreciate your bravery in that you are willing to share that even though it must be very painful for you to even think about it. I think you are doing the best thing anyone could do to try to heal themselves from that kind of experience. Thanks for being here.

reply from: domsmom

Wow, domsmom, what an amazing story of courage and strength. You did what moms are supposed to do. As soon as you had a child, you were devoted to that child and stopped your self-destructive behavior -- and therefore the child probably saved your life, and you saved his (hers?)! That is really beautiful and thanks for sharing it.

Um, thanks. I have a hard time telling that because, well, people are mean But sometimes I have to bring it up when people say what a horrible life someone will have. HTH do they know?

reply from: bradensmommy

And you know alot of pro-choicers make the argument "Why would you bring a kid in this world anyway, it's parents are poor, homeless, ect" Well, ya know life is hard nevertheless! My mom had me at 20, her and my dad were both very poor but they managed to work everything out. I think everyone has had a hard life at least once, nobody's life is peaches and cream. But I think telling others about someone's tough life educates them more and makes them realize that there are people who go through the same thing.

reply from: yoda

Why is it that after a baby is born in dire poverty, no proabort would suggest that it would be more "merciful" to kill it?

reply from: scopia1982

"Why is it that after a baby is born in dire poverty, no proabort would suggest that it would be more "merciful" to kill it?"

Actually there are many that would, sadly....

reply from: Tam

Wow, domsmom, what an amazing story of courage and strength. You did what moms are supposed to do. As soon as you had a child, you were devoted to that child and stopped your self-destructive behavior -- and therefore the child probably saved your life, and you saved his (hers?)! That is really beautiful and thanks for sharing it.

Um, thanks. I have a hard time telling that because, well, people are mean But sometimes I have to bring it up when people say what a horrible life someone will have. HTH do they know?

Some children who grow up rich and pampered end up dying tragically or living ruined lives. We don't say they should have been killed in the womb, and neither should a child whose parents are less fortunate or less successful. Even if the parent is an abuser, that is not a reason to KILL a child! It's worse than that, because--if you had been aborted, your children wouldn't be here now either. So that is five lives--and then it will increase exponentially from there--that would have never been had the proaborts who encourage abortion to prevent a troubled childhood gotten their way. People need to realize IT ISN'T JUST THE LIFE OF THE ABORTED BABY--IT'S EVERY DESCENDANT THAT CHILD WOULD HAVE HAD whose life is snuffed out in an abortion. I am glad that even though you had a hard time, you exist! and your family is alive!

reply from: yoda

Excellent point.

reply from: ScreaminIke

true... but what IS your point?

reply from: Tam

You need to learn to use the "Quote" button, so it is clear to whom you are replying. Presuming, despite the fact that you replied to the thread in general and not to my point, that you were actually trying to respond to me, I will answer you:

My point is that IT ISN'T JUST THE LIFE OF THE ABORTED BABY--IT'S EVERY DESCENDANT THAT CHILD WOULD HAVE HAD whose lives are snuffed out in a single abortion.

I am not sure why you ask what is the point. Do you fail to grasp the simple language of the sentence? Do you fail to grasp its relevance to the abortion debate? What is it you don't understand?

P.S. Or is it that you DO understand, but are trying to say, "who cares?" If so, the answer is, "obviously not you, but most of us on this forum." (Duh.)

reply from: yoda

I think that Ike is just here to test our patience, and perhaps provoke us, Tam.

reply from: galen

I wanted to let you know that your personal story has inspired several of the women here... many have been through similar problems, which led them to the shelter... you have convinced 3 women to" keep on keeping on" as they put it. I would like to express my gratitude to you and all others who share thier stories. It helps a great deal to let someone else know they are not the first and won't be the last, to face adversity and come out on top!.

Mary

reply from: ScreamingIke

nope. here to have fun.

that's not a point. it's a statement. does it MEAN something?

reply from: domsmom

I wanted to let you know that your personal story has inspired several of the women here... many have been through similar problems, which led them to the shelter... you have convinced 3 women to" keep on keeping on" as they put it. I would like to express my gratitude to you and all others who share thier stories. It helps a great deal to let someone else know they are not the first and won't be the last, to face adversity and come out on top!.

Mary

Really?! I did not realize that. Well, YAY! I am one of those people who want little more in life than to help others in any way I can (I get chastized by most of my family for this!) Little did I know simply by posting on a message board, I would help someone! That gives me the warm fuzzies! Thanks Mary, for letting me know

reply from: galen

NP
U r welcome!

Mary
Celia
Little C
Joshua
Carolle
Tamiqua
Jessy

reply from: Tam

nope. here to have fun.

that's not a point. it's a statement. does it MEAN something?

Apparently not to you! But then, to you, it is meaningless that children are slaughtered in the womb in the first place--so I certainly don't expect you to care about children who have yet to be conceived at all and will never exist. As for the definition of the word "point"--use a dictionary (they're ever so helpful to avoid making idiotic statements!).

reply from: yoda

nope. here to have fun.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive, Ike. In fact I would say that I have accurately described HOW you are having fun here.


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