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Petals in the dust

India's practice of aborting female foetuses

by: Shenanigans

http://www.petalsinthedust.com/Trailer.html

reply from: BossMomma

It's tragic, not only do they kill off femal fetuses but those who can't afford it simply kill the baby girl once born.

reply from: Rosalie

Choices being removed from women, women being forced to go through something that directly affects their health, body, and life against their will... Well yeah, that reminds me of something. Here in the USA, we call this "pro-life".

reply from: faithman

Reminds me of the planned parenthood contrived policy in China, where women are strapped down, and Womb children ripped from their wombs. Reminds me of the godless left wanting to force birth control on entire populations throw water suplies. Reminds me of suppressing vital information about abortion and birth control, so women would not be bothered with those pesky side effects, as they mercilessly slaughter their own children. Reminds me of low life scancs who abuse free speach to promote evil aggression against helpless children. Your low life butt does not believe in the freedom of will. It is your side who forces abortion on women and takes the will of the pre-born away to make one single choice for themselves. You only believe in "free will" for your self. But please do blather on scanc. You prove with every post what a dung heap you are.

reply from: Sigma

So, you agree that taking choice away in this matter is a bad thing?

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

Can they be separated?

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you understand what you've posted. Where did you copy/paste it from?

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you understand what you've posted

reply from: faithman

I think I understand what I write just fine.

reply from: Sigma

I disagree, since your only response is to repeat your entire post. It's a sign that you don't actually understand the post.

reply from: faithman

I disagree, since your only response is to repeat your entire post. It's a sign that you don't actually understand the post.
Or it could mean I believe exactly what I wrote in its context, and want for the thought to remain whole, not sound bitten into something I never said. I will leave confusion to you. That is the tact of the godless left. your complete mind set is thinking how cute you are by cutting things out of their context to subvert. But please do blather on. It is a dull example of what lying low life word twisting deviant degenerates YOU REALLY ARE.

reply from: Sigma

It is ridiculous to hold to the belief that explaining your position necessarily means it is taken out of context. The more reasonable belief is that you don't understand the position you posted and so are unable to explain it.

reply from: faithman

It is ridiculous to hold to the belief that explaining your position necessarily means it is taken out of context. The more reasonable belief is that you don't understand the position you posted and so are unable to explain it.
The post itself is a very clear explanation of what I believe. What is rediculous is any one taking you sincerely. You do not have the right to explain anything I say. You can post your twisted opinion, but you don't have the right to say my explanation is not an explanation. It is you who is playing double speak, not me.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

It is quite prideful to claim that there cannot be any questioning of your words, or that not completely understanding your position is the fault of the questioner and never in yourself.
Again, the more reasonable belief is that you do not understand your own post enough to be able to explain it further.

reply from: faithman

It is quite prideful to claim that there cannot be any questioning of your words, or that not completely understanding your position is the fault of the questioner and never in yourself.
Again, the more reasonable belief is that you do not understand your own post enough to be able to explain it further.
The pride belongs to you. You are the one who is trying to make what I have stated very clearly. All you want to do is play word games because you know you have been had. But do blather on fool. You just prove the scripture is tue. Professing yourself to be wise, you prove what a scumbag borthead fool you are. My [post stands on its own, and no further explanation needed.All you are trying to do is twist things into what was never said.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

Refusing to explain your post is a sign that you do not understand it. Must be a copy/paste from somewhere else.

reply from: faithman

Refusing to explain your post is a sign that you do not understand it.
I have not refused to explain it. I have merely pointed out the obvious, that the post is it's own explanation. It is you who is purposely too stupid to understand that.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Rawr

I can't really see the difference. Its not like newborns are sapient or really anymore self-aware than a late term fetus, which are also aborted.

reply from: Sigma

The post is it's own explanation so you are free from any responsibility of explaning the post? How circular!
If I am too stupid to understand then I require more explanation. So far you're refusing to explain

reply from: faithman

I can't really see .
That is your problem. You are willingly blind.

reply from: faithman

The post is it's own explanation so you are free from any responsibility of explaning the post? How circular!
If I am too stupid to understand then I require more explanation. So far you're refusing to explain
The only legit use of force is to stop evil aggression, and protect the innocent.

reply from: Sigma

Denying choice is evil aggression. You are the evil aggressor.

reply from: faithman

Denying choice is evil aggression. You are the evil aggressor.
Who is denying choice? I just prescribe the proper consequence for choices. How is it evil to stop aggression against the innocent?

reply from: Sigma

If you don't support having the choice to acquire an abortion you are denying the ability to choose in that scenario. That is evil aggression. You are the evil aggressor. Therefore I may force you to stop.

reply from: Rawr

I can't really see .
That is your problem. You are willingly blind.
Actually, I'm not for abortion. I meant that I cannot see why people think killing a newborn human is worse than killing an unborn one. I think they're equally wrong.
So I take it you are pro-adult consensual incest, pro-drug use, pro-prostitution, pro-suicide, etc?

reply from: faithman

If you don't support having the choice to acquire an abortion you are denying the ability to choose in that scenario. That is evil aggression. You are the evil aggressor. Therefore I may force you to stop.
I do not "support" evil aggression against the innocent. I will leave that "choice" to you baby killers, with the consequence of your evil aggression against the innocent.

reply from: Sigma

My comment is in the context of abortion, so was only meant to apply to that scenario.
However, if you wish to discuss those issues I'd gladly give you my views in a new topic.

reply from: Sigma

You are the evil aggressor when you deny the choice of abortion. Therefore I am justified in forcing you to stop. That is the result of your choice to oppress others.

reply from: Rawr

So why are you acting as if it is wrong to be an "evil aggressor" when you are an evil aggressor yourself?

reply from: Sigma

Killing evil aggressors is his philosphy, not mine. Since what consitutes an evil aggressor has no objective measure I am free to label him an evil aggressor and be personally justified to force him to stop.
Certainly you can label me one too... but what is your measure?

reply from: faithman

Killing evil aggressors is his philosphy, not mine. Since what consitutes an evil aggressor has no objective measure I am free to label him an evil aggressor and be personally justified to force him to stop.
Certainly you can label me one too... but what is your measure?
It has most assuredly been spelled out for you. you just "choose" to play dumb. The "consequence" of your "choice" is to be a degenerate baby killer.

reply from: Sigma

Yes, the philosophy you lay down has some consequences. One of them is that killing can be justified if you believe the one your killing is an evil aggressor.
Since I consider you to be an evil aggressor for your beliefs it would justify killing you.

reply from: faithman

Yes, the philosophy you lay down has some consequences. One of them is that killing can be justified if you believe the one your killing is an evil aggressor.
Since I consider you to be an evil aggressor for your beliefs it would justify killing you.
All I can say is bring it on. You are the one trying to make evil aggression arbitrary. It is not. When you go out of your way to cause unjust harm, you are an evil aggressor. The term is not arbitray at all. It is quite clear.

reply from: Sigma

Yes, you are causing unjust harm when you try to make abortion illegal. Your philsophy has no basis for your claim of objective standards.

reply from: faithman

Yes, you are causing unjust harm when you try to make abortion illegal. Your philsophy has no basis for your claim of objective standards.
It is you who has abandoned all objectivity. The evidence is against you. Anyone who objectively looks at development pictures, sees a human child. Only a death scum fool would deny their humanity, and personhood.

reply from: Sigma

This seems contradictory. As any police officer would know, 10 people looking at the same incident will have 10 different stories. What you say you see is not objective reality.

reply from: faithman

The only legit use of force is to stop evil aggression, and protect the innocent.

reply from: Sigma

Yes, you are causing unjust harm when you try to make abortion illegal. Your philsophy has no basis for your claim of objective standards.

reply from: faithman

Yes, you are causing unjust harm when you try to make abortion illegal. Your philsophy has no basis for your claim of objective standards.
Say you a sold out evil aggressor against the preborn.

reply from: Sigma

So what objective set of standards are you using?

reply from: faithman

So what objective set of standards are you using?
It is called the founding documents of Our republic. Had we followed them, abortion on demand would never have be allowed. It is a direct assault on the constitution.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.

reply from: faithman

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.
Not at all. 40 words into the pre amble obliterates your supposition.

reply from: faithman

Really? How so?
Just read it scanc. As the founding documents state. Somethings are self evident.

reply from: Sigma

Alrighty I did. Now how does the preamble in any way refute what I've said?

reply from: faithman

Alrighty I did. Now how does the preamble in any way refute what I've said?
UUUUUHHHHHH, that self evident thing?

reply from: Sigma

What self evident thing?

reply from: faithman

What self evident thing?
40 words in scanc.

reply from: faithman

What about them?
look it up

reply from: Sigma

Look what up? The preamble? I did.
Now what?

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.

reply from: faithman

All that believe sigma is a low life scumbag baby killer, http://http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby12.html

reply from: Sigma

I don't think you can support that belief. The Constitution, as a document, favors greater freedom rather than less freedom for the people of the country. It strictly limits what the Federal Gov't can do and later additions strictly restricted what the State Gov't may do.
The direction seems to support the pro-choice philosophy rather than the pro-life one.

reply from: BossMomma

Yeah, it's okay to murder that very same baby if it was the woman's choice right Rosalie? There are other things that control women's health, body and, life against their will. Murder, rape, domestic abuse to name a few. All pro-lifers ask is that women spare the lives of their children.

reply from: faithman

Up until the 40th word of the constitution. Defending the blessing of life for the preborn, was, and is, a constitutional promise.

reply from: Sigma

Yet the rest of the document pretty clearly limits the Gov't (both Federal and State) in it's role. It can protect... but not at the expense of the woman's rights.

reply from: BossMomma

I can't really see the difference. Its not like newborns are sapient or really anymore self-aware than a late term fetus, which are also aborted.
So lets anesthetize you and poison you with oleander sap, your not self aware so what's the difference? Or lets puncture your esophogus with dry rice husks, or leave you abandoned to starve or die of exposure because of your gender. Those little girls are born people being systematically wiped out, where is the outcry for women now?

reply from: faithman

Yet the rest of the document pretty clearly limits the Gov't (both Federal and State) in it's role. It can protect... but not at the expense of the woman's rights.
Wrong again. Roe was a violation of the constitution, not upholding it. Nothing in the rest of the document gives the court the athority to ignore the constitutional mandate to secure the Blessing of life to preborn posterity. There is no right in the constitution that say a woman has the right to slaughter her child.

reply from: Shenanigans

So, you agree that taking choice away in this matter is a bad thing?
No one should be able to make a choice that ends the life of another human being. Its pretty straight forward, actually.
Don't kill people.

reply from: Sigma

Well, yes, it does. Article III gives the Court authority over judicial matters and long precedent has established the Court's power to invalidate laws that conflict with Constitutional protection.
Even if I agreed with you that the Constitution does give the protection of all life, I would also have to say that the Constitution does not give the Gov't carte blanc authority to strip women of their Constitutional rights to do so.

reply from: Sigma

That would be the only consistent pro-life view.
However, American society does not hold to that view.

reply from: Shenanigans

I can't really see the difference. Its not like newborns are sapient or really anymore self-aware than a late term fetus, which are also aborted.
Humans dont' tend to develop senitence or sapience until about 2 years of age, and even then its debatable.
In fact, most humans don't even know who they are until they're late into their teens, or even out of them.
Should we just say, right, kill the bugger anytime before they turn 18, just to be on the safe side?

reply from: Shenanigans

That would be the only consistent pro-life view.
However, American society does not hold to that view.
Once upon a time a great many Americans held to the view that slavery was justified. It took a few rather brave men and women to hold the unpopular view to the contrary.
I'm not saying start a war over abortion, though it wouldn't surprise me if one started.
Its like the homosexuals saying "civil rights should be determined because they are right not by the majority".
The same shoudl apply to abortion.
Killing people is wrong. The unborn child is a human being. Killing that human being is wrong. Therefore, abortion is wrong because it kills that human being. And because it is wrong to kill human beings abortion should be made illegal.
Whatever the majority says about abortion is moot, the fact killing people is wrong is all that should matter in regards to the law.
Humans as a majority suck when it comes to applying freedoms and liberties.

reply from: joueravecfous

But it's already been established that it's not always wrong to kill. Even some prolifers agree.

reply from: Sigma

Yes, and they solved that problem by saying the State gov't could not take away the liberties of it's citizens when it ratified the Fourteenth Amendment. The consequence of the Fourteenth Amendment is that the State gov't cannot violate the liberties of it's citizens by making abortion illegal.
The trend is more freedom for people, not less.
Yes, by saying "birth control and abortion should be protected from the tyranny of the majority because it is right". The argument cuts both ways because in each camp are people with legitimate arguments and concerns.
Killing people is generally wrong. So is oppression by the gov't. So is strapping a pregnant woman down and performing a cesarean against her will. So is police requiring women by law to have ultrasounds every month to determine if they're pregnant.
"Wrong" and "illegal" have only a passing relationship.
Again, American society does not subscribe to this view. I agree that the majority sucks. That's what the Constitution is supposed to protect us from.

reply from: Sigma

I get the feeling that faithman is a joke even to pro-life people

reply from: faithman

You death scum say that it is perfectly fine to kill those who are inconvenient. I say that the only use of any kind of force, lethal or otherwise, is to stop evil aggression.

reply from: Sigma

Right, you think killing is ok sometimes. I get the picture.

reply from: faithman

Right, you think killing is ok sometimes. I get the picture.
I think killing is a regrettable necessity. It should only be used to stop evil aggression against the innocent.

reply from: B0zo

Right, you think killing is ok sometimes. I get the picture.
I think killing is a regrettable necessity. It should only be used to stop evil aggression against the innocent.
Even if it should be used, it isn't. There seem to be extremist kooks who say that knocking off abortionists is well and good because they are supposedly protecting the innocent, yet what are they doing besides applauding the rare misguided soul like Scott, who commits murder and throws his own life away.
If killing is a "necessity," then why are those who preach violence doing nothing?

reply from: faithman

And you know they are doing nothing how? Trapping for bounty again clown?

reply from: B0zo

If they were doing "something" instead of nothing, there would be hundreds of them in jail right now (for doing what you say is legal), instead of just one every ten or twenty years.
I'm not saying they should and I'm not saying you should--just that it seems extremely disingenuous to tout violence and murder while holding up a post card and staying in your comfy house instead of behind bars for taking the necessary defensive action.

reply from: faithman

As any phony punk, you assume a lot with out any evidence.

reply from: Rawr

I can't really see the difference. Its not like newborns are sapient or really anymore self-aware than a late term fetus, which are also aborted.
Humans dont' tend to develop senitence or sapience until about 2 years of age, and even then its debatable.
In fact, most humans don't even know who they are until they're late into their teens, or even out of them.
Should we just say, right, kill the bugger anytime before they turn 18, just to be on the safe side?
I was just commenting that many people think killing a newborn baby is worse/more wrong than killing an unborn baby, even though I can't see the difference between the two. IMO, its equally bad, as I stated earlier in the thread. Sorry for not being clear. >.>
I honestly will not be surprised if post-birth infanticide becomes as acceptable as abortion is in the future, since most of the reasoning for killing an unborn baby could be used to kill a born one.

reply from: BossMomma

Right, you think killing is ok sometimes. I get the picture.
I think killing is a regrettable necessity. It should only be used to stop evil aggression against the innocent.
That very same opinion is what drives the pro-choice movement, in their opinion abortion is a regretable nessesity to give women reproductive freedom.

reply from: BossMomma

I can't really see the difference. Its not like newborns are sapient or really anymore self-aware than a late term fetus, which are also aborted.
Humans dont' tend to develop senitence or sapience until about 2 years of age, and even then its debatable.
In fact, most humans don't even know who they are until they're late into their teens, or even out of them.
Should we just say, right, kill the bugger anytime before they turn 18, just to be on the safe side?
I was just commenting that many people think killing a newborn baby is worse/more wrong than killing an unborn baby, even though I can't see the difference between the two. IMO, its equally bad, as I stated earlier in the thread. Sorry for not being clear. >.>
I honestly will not be surprised if post-birth infanticide becomes as acceptable as abortion is in the future, since most of the reasoning for killing an unborn baby could be used to kill a born one.
Sorry, misread. This subject really tends to piss me off.

reply from: godless

Right, you think killing is ok sometimes. I get the picture.
I think killing is a regrettable necessity. It should only be used to stop evil aggression against the innocent.
That very same opinion is what drives the pro-choice movement, in their opinion abortion is a regretable nessesity to give women reproductive freedom.
Bossmama, I would have to say you are absolutely mistaken on this one. It is not the same at all. Protecting actual people is allowed in all 50 states, as well as most other countries.
But there is no "person" to protect in the womb. there can be no regret for disguarding unwanted material form a womb.
Faithcreep's logic would be perfectly sound if the blob were a person. And he is right that most of you guys really are pro-choice. You really do not believe that what is in the womb is a person. You pose no real threat to the end of Roe at all.
As a "borthead" I am thankful that you guys really do not believe your crap.
If I were a fundie, and really did believe that a clump of cells was a person, I would do what ever it took to save them.
But they are not a person, and most of you know that.
It would seem to me that you should spend more time toning down your rhetoric, and stop provoking people like Faithcreep to take action.
You should spend more time trying to convince him that the "womb child" is not a person.
Persons are allowed defensive action, blobs are not.
Faithcreep is right in that if what is in the womb is a person, Then it is just to defend them as any other person.
You can not have a civil culture, if you can not protect innocent real people in that culture.
It is the rhetoric of the fetus fetish crowd who has led poor misguided people like faithcreep to do what they do.
It is wrong for you to push unstable people into doing something with what you say when you really don't believe it yourself.
And hey faithcreep. Get some help. You seem to be sincere about what you believe. But you have been lied to by people who really don't believe that a blob is a person. You seem to be on the verge of loosing it, and it would be a shame to throw your life away for a cause that has betrayed you. So please, for the sake of women's rights, and the safty of us all, get some help.
And to all pro choice posters. I am sure you already have, but please report this misguided soul to the authorities. For his sake as well as ours. He is to be pitied, and properly looked after. Not thrown away like his very on cause has done.

reply from: BossMomma

Right, you think killing is ok sometimes. I get the picture.
I think killing is a regrettable necessity. It should only be used to stop evil aggression against the innocent.
That very same opinion is what drives the pro-choice movement, in their opinion abortion is a regretable nessesity to give women reproductive freedom.
Bossmama, I would have to say you are absolutely mistaken on this one. It is not the same at all. Protecting actual people is allowed in all 50 states, as well as most other countries.
But there is no "person" to protect in the womb. there can be no regret for disguarding unwanted material form a womb.
Faithcreep's logic would be perfectly sound if the blob were a person. And he is right that most of you guys really are pro-choice. You really do not believe that what is in the womb is a person. You pose no real threat to the end of Roe at all.
As a "borthead" I am thankful that you guys really do not believe your crap.
If I were a fundie, and really did believe that a clump of cells was a person, I would do what ever it took to save them.
But they are not a person, and most of you know that.
It would seem to me that you should spend more time toning down your rhetoric, and stop provoking people like Faithcreep to take action.
You should spend more time trying to convince him that the "womb child" is not a person.
Persons are allowed defensive action, blobs are not.
Faithcreep is right in that if what is in the womb is a person, Then it is just to defend them as any other person.
You can not have a civil culture, if you can not protect innocent real people in that culture.
It is the rhetoric of the fetus fetish crowd who has led poor misguided people like faithcreep to do what they do.
It is wrong for you to push unstable people into doing something with what you say when you really don't believe it yourself.
And hey faithcreep. Get some help. You seem to be sincere about what you believe. But you have been lied to by people who really don't believe that a blob is a person. You seem to be on the verge of loosing it, and it would be a shame to throw your life away for a cause that has betrayed you. So please, for the sake of women's rights, and the safty of us all, get some help.
And to all pro choice posters. I am sure you already have, but please report this misguided soul to the authorities. For his sake as well as ours. He is to be pitied, and properly looked after. Not thrown away like his very on cause has done.
As a woman who has been pregnant six times with three miscarriages, one still birth from a twin pregnancy and, three live births I will whole heartedly disagree. The persons I gave birth to did not suddenly become human beings upon exiting my body, the child I gave birth to was the same child I gestated, and for the love of intelligence, get an education. Pro-choice has been lying to it'self for years just trying to justify it's belief in excluding the unborn from humanity.


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