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Abby Johnson = LIAR

by: QueenJ

The "pro-life" parable
Former pro-choicer Abby Johnson says an abortion caused her conversion. Records say it never happened
By Tracy Clark-Flory
The abortion was supposed to explain it all. The traumatizing ultrasound-guided termination of a patient's 13-week fetus set the stage for Abby Johnson's startling conversion from pro-choice warrior to antiabortion extremist. It was meant to resolve questions about why the 29-year-old resigned as director of Planned Parenthood's Bryan, Texas, clinic and joined forces with longtime foe Coalition for Life. Time and again on right-wing radio and TV shows, she passionately detailed how she had a sudden "change of heart" while assisting a physician who performed the procedure. But the revelatory abortion never took place, according to medical records obtained by Texas Monthly.
Broadsheet reported on Johnson's about-face in November, breaking news that the former "Employee of the Year" had recently been put on a performance review and that, curiously enough, she had appeared on a local radio show singing Planned Parenthood's praises on Sept. 27, the day after she claims the procedure took place. Now, Texas Monthly has followed up with additional reporting that casts further doubt on her story. Reporter Nate Blakeslee writes:
According to Planned Parenthood, there is no record of an ultrasound-guided abortion performed on September 26. The physician on duty told the organization that he did not use an ultrasound that day, nor did Johnson assist on any abortion procedure. ... It's difficult to imagine that Johnson simply got the date wrong; September 12 was the only other day that month that the clinic performed surgical abortions.
In records filed with the Texas Department of State Health Services, Planned Parenthood reported that 15 abortions were performed that day, but none of the patients were more than 10 weeks pregnant; however, Johnson claims to have witnessed the termination of a 13-week fetus.
When Texas Monthly confronted Johnson with these discrepancies, she stuck to her story. Pressed for more details, though, she claimed for the first time publicly that the patient was a black woman. The only black patient seen that day was six weeks pregnant, according to records, but there is no reason for a doctor to use an ultrasound for such an early-term abortion. "Even if one was used," writes Blakeslee, "it's hard to imagine how Johnson, who said she has seen hundreds of ultrasound pictures in her career, could mistake a one-quarter-inch-long embryo for a three-inch, thirteen-week fetus."
Johnson suggested that the Planned Parenthood clinic altered its records. It's a convenient claim, because how does one disprove it? Of course Johnson hasn't been able to prove it, either -- but that won't matter to her true believers, who have been quite willing to overlook earlier glaring inconsistencies in her story. Ultimately, facts are irrelevant when it comes to this story, which amounts to an antiabortion parable. When you believe in a fable's message, it doesn't matter whether it's fiction.
http://www.salon.com/news/abortion/index.html?story=/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2010/01/07/abby_johnson_abortion
The Convert
Former Bryan Planned Parenthood director Abby Johnson's abrupt change from pro-choice activist to pro-life spokesperson turned her into a talk show sensation. But is her story true?
by Nate Blakeslee
At lunchtime on October 5, in the East Texas town of Bryan, a woman walked through the rear door of the Brazos Valley Coalition for Life office, which is one block west of a Planned Parenthood clinic. She was crying. It was the thirteenth day of the Coalition's annual 40 Days for Life event, in which anti-abortion activists maintain a 24-hour vigil outside the front gate of the clinic, one of the few places in East Texas where a woman can obtain an abortion. The three staffers on duty immediately recognized the woman. It was the clinic's 29-year-old director, Abby Johnson. "I want out," she told them. "I don't want to do this anymore. I know it's not right."
Stunned by Johnson's sudden appearance and concerned about how distraught she seemed, the staffers sat with her, in a room ordinarily used to counsel pregnant women in crisis, until Shawn Carney, the Coalition's director, arrived. Carney knew Johnson by sight - he had spent a lot of time on the sidewalk in front of the Planned Parenthood clinic - but he had never had a lengthy conversation with her. Carney, who is 27, had begun working at the Coalition as a volunteer, just as Johnson had at Planned Parenthood. Like Johnson, he had quickly been promoted to a position of leadership. Nothing like this had ever happened to him in his short career as an activist, and he could barely contain his excitement.
Johnson told Carney that she had been harboring doubts about her work at the clinic for some time. She felt she was being pressured by her supervisor at the regional affiliate to increase the number of abortions her clinic performed, to make up for declining revenues from the clinic's family planning and women's health services. "I could tell her mind was racing," Carney recalled later. "She was giving a litany of reasons why she wanted out, and it was just almost verbatim of what you think someone who wants to leave the abortion industry would say: Her conscience had gotten to her, the abortion industry is about money, abortion is horrific."
Then, as Carney sat rapt, Johnson told him about the incident that had forced her to finally listen to her conscience. Nine days earlier, on September 26, she'd assisted a doctor who was performing an abortion for a woman who was thirteen weeks pregnant, she said. The doctor asked Johnson to hold an ultrasound transducer to the woman's stomach as he performed the operation. Johnson told Carney she had never seen this done before, since ultrasound machines are not commonly used for first-trimester abortions, which make up the vast majority of abortions done at most clinics. What she witnessed on the ultrasound monitor, she said, horrified her. The fetus seemed to be moving away from the doctor's probe, which was clearly visible on the screen as it entered the patient's uterus. Johnson thought of all the patients whom she had told that their fetuses wouldn't feel anything during the procedure. Then, as Johnson watched, the doctor turned on the suction.
Before she left the Coalition offices that day, Johnson offered to volunteer for the group, and Carney, in turn, promised to help Johnson find another job. It was a standing offer that the Coalition extended to all clinic employees, one often shouted to workers as they arrived in the morning or left in the evening. No staffers at the clinic had ever taken the Coalition up on the offer. Carney never dreamed the first would be the person in charge. "I knew immediately that this would be huge," he said. Johnson quit her job the next day.
Johnson's story broke at a time when abortion had once again taken center stage in national politics. For months Congress had been locked in debate over the so-called Stupak amendment, the anti-abortion measure that threatened to derail health care reform. Mike Huckabee flew Johnson to New York to tape a segment for his talk show on November 7, and she became an overnight star in the conservative-media world. Bill O'Reilly spoke to her and Carney a few days later, and producers for the Christian talk show The 700 Club traveled to Bryan to interview her. Johnson began receiving dozens of calls a day, mostly from talk radio producers seeking interviews, and she obliged every request she could. Her story went viral in the Christian conservative blogosphere.
Carney's efforts to find Johnson a new job were unsuccessful, but after her story went nationwide, Johnson didn't need one. Carney helped her sign on with Ambassador Speakers Bureau, a Christian publicity agency, and the company began booking paid engagements for her. Her job became, in essence, being Abby Johnson. For her first booking, Johnson flew to New York to talk at a fundraiser for the pro-life group Expectant Mother Care. She had done a lot of public speaking for Planned Parenthood over the years, she told me, but had always chafed at the group's insistence on strict adherence to officially sanctioned talking points. Addressing anti-abortion activists, Johnson quickly found that she enjoyed public speaking much more than she had when she was on the other side. "I was laughing when I was up there giving my talk," she said, "because I was thinking, you know, when you're telling the truth, you don't have to have talking points."
But was she telling the truth? The rollout of Abby Johnson as a culture-war celebrity got off to a rocky start. In early November, the online magazine Salon reported that on September 27, the day after Johnson says she witnessed the ultrasound-guided abortion and had her epiphany, she appeared as a guest on the Bryan public radio program Fair and Feminist to discuss her work at the clinic. In the hour-long interview, Johnson gives an enthusiastic defense of the clinic and ridicules the 40 Days for Life protest. She doesn't sound like someone who'd had a life-changing experience the previous day or who had soured on her employer's mission.
One of the show's hosts, Shelly Blair, volunteered regularly at the clinic and considered Johnson to be a friend and mentor. The hardest thing to accept, Blair said later, was not Johnson's announcement that she was now pro-life but her decision to join the Coalition. Johnson, Blair said, had long complained that the Coalition harassed patients and clinic workers and spread misinformation about Planned Parenthood. Blair recalled a party in the parking lot of Planned Parenthood, held just two weeks before Johnson quit, to boost morale on the opening day of the 40 Days vigil. "Abby was so mad that she was screaming through the fence at them," she recalled. "It's just so strange, because now she's saying all the things that they've always said. It's like, how can you unlearn everything you know?"
Johnson's departure from Planned Parenthood turned out to be a more complex story than it first appeared. At a court hearing for an injunction sought by Planned Parenthood to prevent Johnson from divulging confidential information to her new allies, two of Johnson's former co-workers testified that she told them in the days before she resigned that she was afraid she was about to be fired. At one time, Johnson, who was named the regional Planned Parenthood affiliate's employee of the year in 2008, seemed to have a promising future with the organization. By mid-2009, however, her relationship with her employer had begun to deteriorate. Salon reported that on October 2, Johnson was summoned to Houston to meet with her supervisors to discuss problems with her job performance. She was placed on what Planned Parenthood calls a "performance improvement plan." It was just three days later, on Monday, that Johnson made her tearful appearance at the Coalition for Life. The following day she faxed Planned Parenthood a resignation letter, which mentioned nothing about a crisis of conscience.
Johnson has said that she was disciplined by her employer because she objected to what she described as pressure to increase the number of abortions performed at the clinic. The number of abortions did increase over the past year, chiefly because the clinic, which performs surgical abortions every other Saturday, began offering the abortion pill to patients on a daily basis. That decision, Planned Parenthood told me, was driven by patient demand, not, as Johnson has claimed, by a desire to increase revenue. Citing company policy regarding confidential personnel information, Planned Parenthood declined to specify why Johnson was disciplined, other than to deny that it was due to any conflict over the number of abortions performed.
Postings on Johnson's Facebook page, obtained by Texas Monthly, suggest an employee worn out by her job and feeling hurt, angry, and unappreciated - not one struggling with the morality of her profession. On September 24, two weeks before she resigned, she wrote, "So tired. Want a day off. Too busy. Blah." Similar sentiments followed, along with expressions of dread over her coming disciplinary meeting in Houston. This is what she wrote on the night she quit:
Alright. Here's the deal. I have been doing the work of two full time people for two years. Then, after I have been working my whole big butt off for them and prioritizing that company over my family, my friends and pretty much everything else in my life, they have the nerve to tell me that my job performance is "slipping." WHAT???!!! That is crazy. Anyone that knows me knows how committed I was to that job. They obviously do not value me at all. So, I'm out and I feel really great about it!
Johnson received condolences and encouragement from a number of Facebook friends, most of whom were shocked by her announcement. She never mentioned being pressured to increase abortions, having witnessed the ultrasound-guided procedure, or having suffered a moral crisis.
In mid-December I met with Johnson and Carney at the Coalition for Life office, where Johnson spends most days when she is not out of town for a speaking engagement. She has an open face, with big brown eyes and a confident smile. She had cut her hair since the story broke; it was now in a sophisticated bob, and her nails were freshly done in a French manicure. I asked Johnson about the questions that had arisen regarding her motivation for leaving Planned Parenthood. She acknowledged that she had been disciplined just before quitting but said she never worried that she would be fired. "I was employee of the year," she said. "I had been promised by the higher-ups that one day I would be the COO of the affiliate." Johnson insisted that the Facebook posting was merely a cover story, designed to buy her time to decide how and when she would reveal her real reasons for quitting. She was not ready to expose herself to attack at that point. Nor did she turn to the Coalition out of revenge, she said. "It's not about being disgruntled. If I was disgruntled, I would have come over and said, 'Shawn, let's really stick it to Planned Parenthood.' If I was angry about being written up, that's what I would have done, because I have a ton of stuff that I could have disclosed to the media. But I've never done that, because that was never my intention."
Carney said that none of the apparent discrepancies in Johnson's story - the curious timing of the Fair and Feminist interview, the coincidence of the disciplinary action and Johnson's resignation, and the incongruous Facebook posting - bothered him. "Her coming down here can only be explained by a genuine conversion experience," he said. "Abby could have taken a right and driven off and gone to a fast-food restaurant, cried her eyes out, called her husband, quit the next day, and we'd have never known. But she didn't do that. She decided to take a left and come into this house." It was easier for skeptics to believe that Johnson was just a disgruntled employee, Carney said, than that a commonly performed procedure was in reality so awful that the director of an abortion clinic could not abide the sight of it. "I think for some people the reason for her leaving is almost too ugly to look at with honesty," Carney said.
Other questions about Johnson's credibility arose during our interview. She told me, for example, that there had never been any threats of violence against the Bryan clinic; however, Johnson herself received a series of threatening letters in 2007. "God will punish you for killing the innocent or we will," read one. "You are not taking us seriously. You were at the clinic alone. Not very smart," read another. In fact, the threats were taken so seriously that security cameras were installed at Johnson's house, as she later acknowledged. Johnson also claimed that while most services at Planned Parenthood were provided by a nonprofit corporation, abortions were done by a for-profit corporation. Both she and Carney seemed to sincerely believe this was true, though all services at Planned Parenthood are, in fact, provided by a pair of separate nonprofit corporations.
As confounding as these inconsistencies are, there may be a much larger problem with Johnson's story. Johnson has told the story of her journey from pro-choice activist to pro-life celebrity many times in many venues, and the crux of the tale is always the same: her moving description of what she saw on the ultrasound that September day in the Bryan clinic's operating room. It is an undeniably compelling story. Mike Huckabee interrupted Johnson several times during her appearance on his show, marveling at every detail and embellishing here and there with his own comments. "You literally were holding your hand on top of her belly, at that point, and realized that what was underneath that hand, once, a moment ago, was life...it's gone," he said. "My gosh."
Johnson's account is so plausible and rich in detail that even Planned Parenthood seems not to have investigated whether this event ever took place. At my request, the staff at the Bryan clinic examined patient records from September 26, the day Johnson claims to have had her conversion experience, and spoke with the physician who performed abortions on that date. According to Planned Parenthood, there is no record of an ultrasound-guided abortion performed on September 26. The physician on duty told the organization that he did not use an ultrasound that day, nor did Johnson assist on any abortion procedure. "Planned Parenthood can assure you that no abortion patients underwent an ultrasound-guided abortion on September 26," said a spokesperson. It's difficult to imagine that Johnson simply got the date wrong; September 12 was the only other day that month that the clinic performed surgical abortions.
Could clinic staff and the physician be mistaken? The Texas Department of State Health Services requires abortion providers to fill out a form documenting basic information about each procedure performed at a clinic. This document is known as the Induced Abortion Report Form. The Bryan clinic reported performing fifteen surgical abortions on September 26. Johnson has consistently said that the patient in question was thirteen weeks pregnant, which is plausible, since thirteen weeks is right at the cusp of when physicians will consider using an ultrasound to assist with the procedure. Yet none of the patients listed on the report for that day were thirteen weeks pregnant; in fact, none were beyond ten weeks.
Johnson stands by her version of events. "What I described on the screen is something I'd never seen before, so I wouldn't know what to describe if I hadn't seen it," she said. It seems unlikely, though, that an eight-year veteran of the abortion wars would be unfamiliar with the image of the "recoiling fetus," which has been common coin among anti-abortion activists since the release of the controversial 1984 film The Silent Scream, which purported to show fetal pain. When I asked if she could provide any other details of what she saw that day to help firm up her story, Johnson volunteered that the patient in question was a black woman, a description that she has never previously included in her account. Only one patient from September 26 was black, according to the Induced Abortion Report Form, and she was in the sixth week of her pregnancy. There would be no medical reason for a doctor to use an ultrasound to guide an abortion performed on a woman at such an early stage. Even if one was used, it's hard to imagine how Johnson, who said she has seen hundreds of ultrasound pictures in her career, could mistake a one-quarter-inch-long embryo for a three-inch, thirteen-week fetus.
Johnson told me she was unfamiliar with the Induced Abortion Report Form. When I explained what the forms for September 26 reflected, she suggested that Planned Parenthood could have doctored them. "Anything to discredit me is what they're gonna do," she said. "You know, I'm not really interested in defending my story anymore. I haven't done this just for fun. I haven't done it for my own benefit. So I don't really care what they're saying. They're just trying to grasp at straws and come up with something," she said. "And it's just not true."
If the story of Johnson's conversion doesn't bear up well under scrutiny, it may be because it was never meant to. Johnson has consistently said that she never planned to go public with her story. In fact, the media only learned of her defection a month after she quit, when Planned Parenthood took Johnson to court. According to testimony at that hearing, on the day she quit her job Johnson told two young co-workers that the Coalition for Life could find them jobs, just as it had offered to do for her. All they had to do, one of the young women testified, was say they could no longer work at Planned Parenthood because of a "moral conflict." (Both are still employed at the clinic.) Johnson told me early in our interview that clinic workers sometimes felt trapped. "Where else would you work?" was a refrain she often heard around the Planned Parenthood office. "You've done abortions - who else would want you here in this town?"
Johnson, who has a young daughter and a husband who is a schoolteacher, told me her only goal in the weeks after leaving Planned Parenthood was to find a new job as quickly as possible. But she'd suddenly found herself with a camera in her face, telling her story to a much larger audience. "I had no idea I would be on Fox News. This was just totally unexpected," she said. "Things just really took off in a different direction than what I had thought they would."
http://www.texasmonthly.com/2010-02-01/letterfrombryan.php

reply from: PanhandleGuy

tlr
Summarize, please.

reply from: Banned Member

And you believe Planned Parenthood?

reply from: nancyu

http://www.facinglife.tv/
Watch the interview.

reply from: Shenanigans

I'd bet everything I have that the most effective and well looked after piece of equipment Unplanned Parenthood have, would be their paper shredder.

reply from: Spinwubby

It reeks of Brenda Pratt Shafer, who testified (LIED) before a congressional hearing and almost did time for perjury. (Charges were dropped shortly after she did 2 72-hour observational stints as a 5150...):
The Truth About the Testimony of Nurse Brenda Pratt Shafer
Some of the testimony in support of the "Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act" has been very graphic and disturbing. But has it been accurate and true? Diana Griego Erwin of the Sacramento Bee has some interesting things to say on the issue.
Brenda Pratt Shafer, a nurse, testified that she quit her job at an Ohio clinic after witnessing late-term abortions performed on six healthy fetuses. But according to Ms. Erwin, in a column published on Sunday, November 5, 1995, the clinic at which Nurse Shafer worked does not perform third trimester abortions.
Is it possible that Nurse Shafer had witnessed second trimester abortions? Not according to Ms. Erwin and Christie Gallivan, the clinic's head nurse. Shafer was not a long-term employee of the clinic. In fact, she worked there for only three days. According to Gallivan, "We do not train temporary nurses in second-trimester dilation and extraction since it is a highly technical procedure."
Unfortunately, Nurse Shafer's story is still being circulated and reported without question, despite a "Dear Colleague" letter circulated on Capitol Hill by Congresswomen Patricia Schroeder, Shiela Jackson Lee and Zoe Lofgren that points out the inconsistencies.
Inaccurate and misleading claims on the part of abortion opponents are nothing new. This latest incident, along with the circulation of a damaging "quote" from one of the doctors who perform this procedure - a quote that appears nowhere in the magazine it was allegedly pulled from - is strong evidence that this bill's backers know it could never succeed on its own merits.
Now I'm quite aware that Pratt-Sheafer changed elements of her story later and had Dr. Haskill just salivating to hire her and ready to turn his clinic over to her.|/sarcasm| However she is simply, like another poster here, adding lies to previous lies. You'll find her modified lies at the Priests For Lies site. (Oh what a tangled web they weave..But when they've practiced quite a while, how vastly they improve their style.)

reply from: QueenJ

If you read the parts I bolded you'll get a pretty good idea.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.squidoo.com/Joan-Appleton#module24329092
This woman's story sounds amazingly similar to Abby's story...like really really similar...like almost exactly the same story...
"Another thing that bothered me as I went about my work at the clinic was the fact that I had seen an ultrasound abortion. We did first trimester abortions. This was a late first trimester, probably second trimester. I handled the ultrasound while the doctor performed the procedure and I directed him while I was watching the screen.
I saw the baby pull away. I saw the baby open his mouth. I had seen Silent Scream a number of times, but it didn't effect me. To me it was just more pro-life propaganda. But I couldn't deny what I saw on the screen. After that procedure I was shaking, literally, but managed to pull it together and continue on with the day..."

reply from: Banned Member

NancyU, supporter of the Army of God, a domestic terrorist group.

reply from: Shenanigans

Perhaps the pro-life/anti-abortion movement is resorting to the tactics of the pro-abortion movement. Roeder did what the pro-aborts did, and killed someone. Now we have "pro-lifers" apparently lying, which is just what the pro-aborts did to get Roe established in the first place.

reply from: LexIcon

How Machiavellian of you!
My hunch is that those who would even consider working in an abortion clinic as an honorable profession have warped if not damaged psyches. They see killing as freedom and life, for crying out loud! For how many years was Abby Johnson immersed in that hell? To expect that she would emerge completely sane is insane!
No, Abby Johnson needs time to heal. She does NOT need to be exploited as a "convert" to the pro-life cause and thrown to the wolves!!!

reply from: Shenanigans

Why thank you! I have to say, that is by far the best thing anyone has ever said to me on this forum. ^_^
Yeah, no kidding.
Although, her statements, regardless of whether they are factual, will guarentee with 99.99% recurring certainty that she'll never work in the abortion industry again.
Butchers they may be, but they won't hire a woman with such loose lips.

reply from: Banned Member

How insightful. Troll.

reply from: Banned Member

Not a problem for you though, eh? You just confess it and go about your business, secure in your moral superiority and ultimate "salvation," right?
Also, successful troll is successful! I knew somebody's conscience would be pricked enough to make them try to troll the troll.
A new poster would not do enough back research to know that I am Catholic in so short a space of time. Therefore you have posted here under another name. You know that I am Catholic and don't like the Catholic Church. You also believe that Abby Johnson is a liar. That puts you in another bracket, a rather small bracket, of known uses who post under other names.

reply from: Banned Member

Perhaps we should discuss the hate filled near threatening letter that your Army of God friend sent to Abby? You know the Army of God right? The terrorist organization which you support.

reply from: pray4em

It is difficult for people to admit they were wrong about abortion, whatever it is that Abby Johnson saw it changed her view on abortion. Ultra-sound has changed many people's minds regarding the child in the womb.
More and more women are coming forward and saying how the abortion industry lied to them, deceived them or mislead them, Abby Johnson is only one of them. People that refuse to believe this are like drunks leaning over a stool saying "I don't have a a dr..i...i..nking problem".

reply from: Banned Member

Inertia. Sometimes people keep telling lies even when they know they are telling lies. It's a very hard thing to admit that you're wrong. Abby Johnson should be applauded for her courage in telling the truth. She was able to stop and change direction. She's out every day now telling the truth. But some are so entrenched in their hatred for Planned Parenthood workers, that they are unwilling even to embrace the convert. They too are carried by that same sort of personal intertia.

reply from: Tam

that's a great point, but bear in mind that the questions that have arisen around this conversion story indicate that this woman is NOT to be trusted. sounds to me like she wanted to volunteer to go undercover. and if there are that many strange discrepancies, then there is no way to rule the "undercover proabort" theory out.

reply from: Banned Member

Abby Johnson is not a fake. Abby Johnson is pro-life.

reply from: Spock

We can't be sure of that. We can't even be sure her views on abortion actually changed at all, much less the reasons if they in fact did. People sometimes disguise their motivations, and there are a multitude of possible explanations for her seeming change of heart. Money and revenge are two possibilities that immediately come to mind.
I'm not saying she didn't really see an ultrasound and change her mind, only that the facts of the case as I understand them make her testimony questionable at best.

reply from: Banned Member

Questionable at best Spock? Abby Johnson is pro-life. Abby Johnson is for the unborn child. The only people that have questioned her are Army of God supporters like Nancy Uhde and Rick Ellis. Which member of the Army of God are you Spock?

reply from: Spock

She's female, and proclaims herself to be prolife...She also has obviously not yet become sufficiently familiar with Augie to have experienced the creepy chill he no doubt causes in members of the opposite sex, and has therefore not yet made any statements that would invoke his scorn. She's obviously a perfect candidate for a crush, and I assume Augie has added her to list of potential "dream dates" along with Gingi and Lila, and I fully expect Augie will defend her with his last breath in order to maintain yet another fantasy marriage.
This has potential folks!

reply from: Banned Member

You are one sick person whoever you are. Another old troll under another name. How many different user names do you have here Spock? How many Spock? 3, 6, 9?

reply from: Banned Member

Spock! I taught you better than that! Stop spamming, or I'll thrash your behind!

reply from: nancyu

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Abby-Johnson-Pro-life-advocate/114382035238545?v=wall&story_fbid=118535018190409&ref=mf

reply from: nancyu

So if you are such an advocate for the unborn child, why won't you take time from your busy day to say that they are PERSONS?

reply from: nancyu

So that's how you recall the message? Because here is the version I have. Do you suppose facebook alters messages between when it is sent and when it is received?
From Abby Brannam Johnson:
"I have really prayed about whether to send a message to you guys. I really feel that I must. I noticed that you are part of a group that feels that Scott Roeder's actions are justified. I just wanted to let you know that saddens me so much. I know that you are aware that I was involved in the abortion industry for 8 years. I received death threats. But that is not what convinced me to leave. I left because of God's mercy and grace. I left because of the compassion and love I was shown by the pro-life individuals who prayed for me everyday. You see, I am now truly pro-life. I believe in the sanctity of ALL human life. None of us are without sin. Roeder took away Dr. Tiller's chance to have a change of heart. I know that you may think that would have been unlikely, but I promise there are many people who thought that about me. Look where I am today. Wouldn't Dr. Tiller's conversion have been amazing?? Now we will never know. We will never know if that could have happened. Nothing has been gained by Dr. Tiller's death. The same women who wanted abortions are still getting them from other providers...and now Roeder will be in jail for the rest of his life. Nothing was gained, but one man's life was lost. A man who was created by God. The same God that created you and me. Yes, he was participating in a horrific sin. But we all sin. We all disappoint our Creator. But, we can all be forgiven. Unfortunately, the man that you hail as a hero, Scott Roeder, has taken that opportunity away from Dr. Tiller. Now, Dr. Tiller and Scott Roeder are the same. Roeder will not be glorified in heaven. He broke the same commandment as Dr. Tiller...Thou Shalt Not Kill. There is no such thing as "Justifiable Homicide." No true things have to be "justified"...only wrong things. I will keep you in my prayers.
Nancy February 2 at 4:03pm
I appreciate your note Abby. By all means I hope abortion will end without further bloodshed (including that of innocent and defenseless children.) Apparently you have been (mis)lead to believe that I am an advocate of violence. I am not.
But I do firmly believe that unborn children are entitled to the same level of defense that born children would receive. If born children were being slaughtered in that same clinic and if that were legal, and socially acceptable to everyone but you and a few "extremists" would you still feel the same about the use of lethal force to stop it?
Please think about this carefully and pray about it as well.
The unborn are PERSONS, and it is simply NOT acceptable to allow this slaughter to continue.
February 2 at 4:16pm Report
Nancy-
I don't play the "what if" game. I know this to be true...pro-life means you are the the sanctity of ALL human life. Sinners, pre-born, born, abortionists, inmates, people just like you and me...not blameless, but all who Christ loves. Yes, even people like George Tiller.
I am not mislead. I read very clearly. I have seen all of your posts. Some posts that do not represent a Christ-like witness.
Like I said, I will continue to pray for you. "

reply from: nancyu

abbykb = abby kills babies? ?

reply from: nancyu

Does this story ring any bells for anyone? Because to me it sounds a lot like Abby's story (but it's not):
"Another thing that bothered me as I went about my work at the clinic was the fact that I had seen an ultrasound abortion. We did first trimester abortions. This was a late first trimester, probably second trimester. I handled the ultrasound while the doctor performed the procedure and I directed him while I was watching the screen.
I saw the baby pull away. I saw the baby open his mouth. I had seen Silent Scream a number of times, but it didn't effect me. To me it was just more pro-life propaganda. But I couldn't deny what I saw on the screen. After that procedure I was shaking, literally, but managed to pull it together and continue on with the day."
http://www.squidoo.com/Joan-Appleton#module24329092

reply from: geegee1234

Abby Johnson is enjoying the attention that she's getting for being "pro-life".
To say that she had no idea what was going on at her PP is ridiculous.
She still takes the side of abortionists and the people who work for them.
Most of her kool-aid drinking followers worship her like she's something to be proud of.
She doesn't like to answer questions regarding her $$$ since becoming pro-life.
Obviously she refuses to accept personhood, which is the largest step to help unborn humans.
I read through an exhausting interview she did some time ago. Really compelling rubbish.
She should be ashamed of herself and she's not. She doesn't care that she assisted thousands of women in killing their unborn children.
I bet her kids are going to be really proud of her *rolls eyes*
Congrats, you pulled the wool over MANY peoples eyes, you just hate that there's a few of us who can see right through you.

reply from: B0zo

What is the issue with her "$$" ?

reply from: Banned Member

nobody cares Brian.
LOL. My name is definitely not Brian. Wrong gender entirely. You didn't even get the first letter right. There are 25 more though. Keep going. Really.
She thinks everyone is me. Paranoia will do that to a person.
(Like there's any point to hide my identity now...:confused

reply from: Banned Member

Originally posted by: B0zo

What is the issue with her "$$" ?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~

Smells like envy...

reply from: faithman

The prolife main stream bowel movement has a bad habit of making baby killers into heroes. Three dollar bills get offended being compared to this one.

reply from: B0zo

The prolife main stream bowel movement has a bad habit of making baby killers into heroes. Three dollar bills get offended being compared to this one.
So what is wrong with her?
The rant that was quoted had zero specifics.

reply from: B0zo

Abby,
Could you post without using the "code" function?
If you're new to this forum, I understand your being perplexed by meanspirited and hateful comments coming from pro-lifers of all people. Sadly, that's the way it is here, and I don't understand why those who control the forum tolerate it, but that's the way it is here. They're the ones who dominate.
Good for you that you're going to Adoration. It reminds me that that was once my regular habit too...

reply from: Banned Member

A quoted excerpt from a message sent via facebook to NancyU by abbykb;
"I know this to be true...pro-life means you are the the sanctity of ALL human life. Sinners, pre-born, born, abortionists, inmates, people just like you and me...not blameless, but all who Christ loves. Yes, even people like George Tiller."
I am so sick of being told what to believe about what the definition of a real Pro-Lifer is. No one has the answer on this because there is no universal answer. It's all opinion. If your faith makes you want to believe that there is no circumstances where it's OK to take another person's life then it's your prerogative to believe and practice that philosophy. But don't come around here telling me or anyone else how it is, or what we should believe, because you are not in a position to decide that for us. All it amounts to is you're just being an big asswipe who is trying to shove your arrogant and self righteous opinions and sensibilities down other peoples throats. I will thank you to leave my free will the hell alone.

reply from: Probabyalways

I am very curious Abby, if Scott Roeder had received the death penalty for his actions? Would you stand behind his right to life?

reply from: faithman

Then why don't the stupid baby killing scanc tell us the meaning of these scriptures? Psalms 5:4,5;;; Psalm 7:11;;; John 3:36... Seems there is a pretty good case to be made that God hated George Tiller.

reply from: B0zo

It appears that you've created your own god in your own image.

reply from: B0zo

What right to life does a man sentenced to death have?
You see no difference between abortion and capital punishment?

reply from: nancyu

Good question pro baby! It's very telling that she hasn't answered this question yet. Her fb fan page has been blotted from my view-- I was just going there to tell her to be careful what she prays for; but too late! He's already answered.

reply from: B0zo

Good question pro baby! It's very telling that she hasn't answered this question yet. Her fb fan page has been blotted from my view-- I was just going there to tell her to be careful what she prays for; but too late! He's already answered.
If probaby thinks she has painted this woman into a corner, she's as deluded and ignorant as you are.
Why is it that you and your kind attack the prolifers who actually do REAL prolife work?

reply from: B0zo

If she opposes the death penalty, of course she would.
If she does not oppose the death penalty, she accepts that civil authority has this right.
Can someone illiminate me about the relevance of this question?
And why are some of you brining facebook discussions over here? How are those not involved in them supposed to understand what's going on?

reply from: B0zo

Can someone give me a clue please?
Is the Abby who made several posts here the real Abby Johnson this thread is about?
And what is the issue some prolifers have with her? I really don't get it.

reply from: B0zo

I've been on this board for a couple of years and have seen it for myself, so it's not new to me.
I respect and appreciate your conversion and the prolife work you do.
I don't know how seriously you should take a few internet naysayers. I am not an activist myself, but have met some in the real world, and they are certainly not the hateful types encountered here.
You said something about going to "Adoration." Are you a Catholic and were you practicing while working for PP? Or did you recently come back to the Church? Or are you looking into it?

reply from: Banned Member

The death penalty is not incompatible with a pro-life viewpoint. And if ever a death penalty case could have needed irrefutable proof, Roeder provided. After all Roeder shot a man a point blank range in a crowded church. Hopefully, under the actual circumstances, he'll spend the natural rest of his life behind bars. I think if released, Roeder would probably murder again.

reply from: Banned Member

It was her opinion lifted from her facebook page and reposted here, and wasn't directed at you, or even to this forum.
But even if it were, it's quite an overreaction to call a good Christian prolife lady an **swipe for expressing her opinion about the sanctity of life.
You seem to be fitting in well here already with the "in" crowd, and in fact might be able to teach them a thing or two about the art of verbal abuse and demeaning others.
lulz

reply from: Banned Member

Reread my post, and this time believe what I said, and the answer will come to you. She thinks just like you. So am I surprised that you got your panties in a bunch over this? Hell no.
Have you guessed that I was writing it because I knew you and a few other B0zo type clones would read it?
Really B0zo, when are you going to get sick of this passive little tea party playdate that calls itself the Pro-Life movement?
There has been no demonstrable progress against abortion in America that you can point to and all you have ever offered as proof, is pure rhetoric. So occasionally a woman will see the advocates on the sidewalks with their signs and turn around and go home but for every one that turns away there are hundreds that keep marching right in unfazed and unimpeded. That's not progress.. that's failure.
So, when someone comes along and puts a mass murderer to death you guys have a flippin' conniption and jump right up on your high horse and start wailing like banshees about how unjust and immoral it is to rejoice at the death of a baby killer. Unbelievable.
To be perfectly honest with you, I think you guys are naive fools who suffer from a combination, victim mentality, and an innate passivity that makes you weak as kittens. You guys aren't fighters.. you guys are whiners and wimps. Who cares what you think? What could it possibly matter what an ineffective wimp thinks. Really, who cares and what does it matter?
Ohhh, so you don't see yourself as an ineffective wimp eh? Well then I must be thinking of someone else. Sorry to have interrupted your tea party playdate.

reply from: B0zo

I happen to disagree with her about the death penalty.
My issue with your comment has nothing to do with whatever disagreement you have with her perspective, but that you would call a new poster who is prolife and Christian an ---wipe, before even being introduced to her.
The people who do real prolife work--the ones going out beating the sidewalks, and persuading women to not abort--they are doing REAL pro-life work, not firing any shots, and saving many babies, yet that type of person is ridiculed here by the pro-lifers who sit on their hands except to clap for people like Roeder. Is the sidewal counselor "passive"?
Yet it's good that the truth is told.
There are wars, rapes, burglaries, auto accidents, rotten presidents, and lots of other uncool things in the USA, but that doesn't mean our country is a "failure."
There is still poverty in the world and still many starving people. Does that make Mother Teresa or anyone else who helps the poor a "failure"?
The problem is that people want to have abortions. How do we get them to not want them?
I don't have any answers. I just know that some answers are wrong and counter productive.
It's unjust and immoral to appove of the evil methods that were used. But so far, I haven't had any conniption about it, and am used to the crazy talk here.
By all means carry on with your manly agenda that works. I will visit you when you are imprisoned, and I will apologize for questioning your sincerity and for implying you are windbag who talks big, but is in the same boat as the "ineffective wimps."
You may call me anything you like. I should be grateful for beign called a wimp instead of a used peice of toilet paper, like you called our new convert from PP to the prolife movement. I would agree that I am ineffective, and that I have no answers whatsovever. It's frustrating to me that so many want abortions to continue and vote for legislators who support it. I always vote prolife and that's about as "effective" as I get at the moment. For now, all I can do is not be a part of the abortion process, not support it or approve of it in any way, and occassionally speak out against numbskulls and phony macho-types, who think taking pot shots at abortionists is a step in the right direction.

reply from: Banned Member

Jesus was crucified because he would not throw stones.
Judas hung himself because Jesus would not throw stones.
Is Scott Roeder more like Jesus Christ, or Judas Iscariot?

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~

Gee Captain Role Model, what have YOU ever done to end abortion in America?

reply from: Banned Member

Really? What the hell are they teaching you up in that Catholic church of yours?

reply from: Banned Member

That's funnier than you know B0zo.
So, you don't think I was casting aspersions in your direction too? Hmmm.

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Gee Captain Role Model, what have YOU ever done to end abortion in America?
Who me? Little old unimaginative me? Why nothing, nothing at all, at least nothing I'm going to share with you you flippin' snitch.

reply from: Shenanigans

YAY!!! Congrats! D

reply from: Banned Member

Well, isn't that just lovely. First you work for Satan and now you're working for Jesus.
Can you please share with us how many fetal deaths you assisted in at the fetal slaughterhouse?
How many babies will you have to save from death by abortion to make up for the ones that you've already helped to kill? Just wondering aloud.
Plus, what is it that makes you think that using code to turn your text blue and more difficult to quote, is doing anything other than pissing people off. Maybe this is your way of proving to us how different and special you are.

reply from: B0zo

Wow, that's wonderful! Congratulations!
So how much is the pope paying you to convert?
(just kidding)
Are you waiting until Easter? Will you be baptized, or have you already been baptized?
What made you decide to do this?

reply from: Banned Member

All you have made are empty accusations, and snarky remarks about money.
Do you have anything of substance?
Patience B0zo. Wait for it. It's coming.

reply from: B0zo

Well, isn't that just lovely. First you work for Satan and now you're working for Jesus.
Can you please share with us how many fetal deaths you assisted in at the fetal slaughterhouse?
How many babies will you have to save from death by abortion to make up for the ones that you've already helped to kill? Just wondering aloud.
Plus, what is it that makes you think that using code to turn your text blue and more difficult to quote, is doing anything other than pissing people off. Maybe this is your way of proving to us how different and special you are.
Good lord, you can't celebrate someone coming from the dark side to the light?
Her sins have been forgiven. We don't need to keep track of them.
Why can't you welcome her home instead of the sour grapes routine?
I asked her about the code issue and it's because of a glitch with her computer and this site. Why not ask yourself instead of assuming the worst about something so petty and insignificant?

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~

It's done automatically in one part of the paste feature.  It's the only way to post some stuff.

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~

Snitch?

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Snitch?
Yep.. in a hot second.

reply from: Probabyalways

Well, people have to make money, don't they? She's just managed to combine a cause she feels strongly about with fiscal gain.
Ok sure, if you believe that, you are certainly entitled to. I am glad to see that people are so forgiving and are quickly willing to accept someone's change of heart so readily. Seriously. I may not agree with what everyone has to say here on this forum but I do think that most are intelligent and make excellent points. Knowing this, I think that you will see in time, if you take notice, you will see her arrogance and just how much she loves attention. I have no doubt that the real person inside will shine through.

reply from: B0zo

Well, people have to make money, don't they? She's just managed to combine a cause she feels strongly about with fiscal gain.
Ok sure, if you believe that, you are certainly entitled to. I am glad to see that people are so forgiving and are quickly willing to accept someone's change of heart so readily. Seriously. I may not agree with what everyone has to say here on this forum but I do think that most are intelligent and make excellent points. Knowing this, I think that you will see in time, if you take notice, you will see her arrogance and just how much she loves attention. I have no doubt that the real person inside will shine through.
Do you fault the owner of this site for collecting donations and for being well-paid?
Do you fault the staff of any prolife organization for being paid?
All I have seen of her is her desire to do prolife work, and a love of Jesus. Nobody goes to "Adoration" to seek attention. Not many even know what that means, even some Catholics.
I expect that the "real person inside" is flawed, as it is in you and me, but I expect it will be better, now that she is on the side of life, and is on a spiritual quest.
What is the downside of giving the benefit of the doubt?

reply from: Probabyalways

Do you fault the owner of this site for collecting donations and for being well-paid?
~No
Do you fault the staff of any prolife organization for being paid?
~Only if they put making money above the cause of saving innocent lives. I think it happens.
All I have seen of her is her desire to do prolife work, and a love of Jesus. Nobody goes to "Adoration" to seek attention. Not many even know what that means, even some Catholics.
~Well continue looking. I think in time you will see more.
I expect that the "real person in side" is flawed, as it is in you and me, but I expect it will be better, now that she is on the side of life, and is on a spiritual quest.
~Absolutely I agree that we are all flawed but I haven't once seen her admit any flaws. Never even a hint of being sorry for what she's done. Instead I see her words ringing with a holier than thou attitude. A spiritual quest? Really? Well she certainly is very confident, telling people that they are unChristlike and so on. Not a bit of humility.
What is the downside of giving the benefit of the doubt?
~ None, but she has given me reason to believe otherwise.

reply from: B0zo

I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and think the best instead of the worst until otherwise demonstrated, but I'm also open-minded and would not turn a blind eye toward something worthy of concern.
So far you have not posted anything specific, probaby. Do you have anything more than just expressions of your gut feeling?
Maybe it's just a personality issue?
I know a lady in my chruch who does heroic prolife work, yet I sometimes find it hard to stand her because she is so pushy and obnoxious at times. So there are things I don't like about her personally, and mabye some of her motives are not always pure, but overall, she's striving to good as best she can.
We can't always wait until our motive is perfectly pure, or we might not ever do anything.

reply from: Shenanigans

You are correct. As they say, a leopard can't change its spots. However I will always give the benefit of the doubt to people, we can judge a person's heart by the fruit they produce, or however the saying goes. If they are a questionable person with questionable morals, their true character will be displayed eventually.
When it comes to former abortionists/pro-abortion people jumping ship, I am happy to welcome them. For whatever reason they left, I am glad they are no longer in that life or of that opinion. When I hear of these stories, I think of Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the fella who helped get abortion legal in America, the man who admits to having done, or assisted with 75,000 abortions.
Then we have "Roe", aka. Norma McCorvey, she has become Pro-Life too.
How can the pro-life movement in good faith accept Dr. Nathanson and McCorvey, probably the two most responsible for abortion, and its associated 52 million deaths, and yet point the finger at the intergrity of this Abby lady?

reply from: Shenanigans

Given it takes a particular personality type to work in an abortion clinic in the first place, it stands to reason that those individuals will have personality quirks that most woudl find distasteful. Such quirks woudl enable them to maintain such an ability to work in those places.
So, it stands to reason that if these people leave the abortion industry might continue to express teh quirks that kept them afloat in the industry.
I beleive it will take time out of that industry before these peopel can begin to heal both their hearts and those undesirable personality issues.
To be blunt, you can't kill children and maim women and be okay in the head.

reply from: Probabyalways

It is mainly a gut feeling Bozo.
The only specific is the testimony of a friend who said Abby lashed out at her and said she stated some condradictory things. I don't have proof of this conversation so I only mention it to let you know where some of my thoughts are coming from. I have no reason to doubt the friend and I believe her.
I also went to her website one day and there was all kinds of information about her book coming out and how to reach her if you wanted to schedule her as a speaker. There was a link there you could click on that said Pregnant? I clicked but it was completly empty with no information. That added to my skeptisism. I have since checked and there is info for help now.
Otherwise I definatley will agree with you that there is a personality clash.

reply from: B0zo

I appreciate your civil and reasonable discussion, and apologize for some previous words that were unnecessarily harsh.
I wouldn't think too much of a link that doesn't work on a website. That happens all the time, especially if the site is new.
I too sometimes wonder about all the money involved in good causes, but if I were to question Abby, I'd have to question a lot more people to be fair. Anything prolife I would do would be a total sacrifice, and there are many who are out on the sidewalks in the hot sun getting nothing for their prolife work, so it seems sometimes like a gravy job to be paid and earn a good living from speaking and working in a cause that many others work in at their own expense. But I suppose some of that is necessary. Volunteers come and go, and sometimes "professionals" are needed.
At any rate, I think it's amazing when someone switches from prochoice to prolife, especially when it's in a visible way like this, and I think it is overall very good for the prolife cause.

reply from: faithman

How great it is for you that you can do nothing, and still have impure motives....

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I notice that Faithman never whines when Judie Brown of the American Life League makes six figures running one of the larger pro-life scams:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3273

reply from: nancyu

Show proof, or admit that you are a liar.

reply from: B0zo

Show proof, or admit that you are a liar.
You got some proof she's a liar, or any evidence she is an evil boogie monster or a double agent? I bet she's flying in one of those black helicopters right now. It's time to reinforce your tinfoil hat nancyu.

reply from: Banned Member

B0zo.. you can be such a naive clown sometimes. But what the the heck, what's a couple of thousand fetal deaths give or take a few, when all you really have to do is seek God's forgiveness and presto, you're soul's all patched up and as good as new.
Personally B0zo, I think she's nuts, and I think you are soft in the head for not realizing that. Think about what kind of mentality it would take to do what she's done. Just imagine how nuts you yourself would have to be to do what she's done. I swear B0zo, sometimes...

reply from: B0zo

B0zo.. you can be such a naive clown sometimes. But what the the heck, what's a couple of thousand fetal deaths give or take a few, when all you really have to do is seek God's forgiveness and presto, you're soul's all patched up and as good as new.
Personally B0zo, I think she's nuts, and I think you are soft in the head for not realizing that. Think about what kind of mentality it would take to do what she's done. Just imagine how nuts you yourself would have to be to do what she's done. I swear B0zo, sometimes...[IMG][/IMG]
Have you ever heard of a religion called Christianity? Have you ever heard of repentance and forgiveness?
Yes, 2,000 abortions can be forgiven. 100,000 abortions can be forgiven.
You think there is a limit to what can be forgiven?
Even the greatest injustice ever committed--crucifying a perfect man and God--can be forgiven.
And you don't think someone can be misled and misguided in youth and go down the wrong path, especially when the law and our culture calls it good?
ALL of us, at least all of us who have sinned, bear the guilt of abortion in some way, and the blame for those 2,000 abortions can be spread around A LOT.
You haven't committed any sins, LN? You think your sins are small or small in number, so they're ok, but somoene else's greater sins are not? Are you aware the the greatest sin is pride and the greatest virtue is humility?
What would you have her do? What would you have anybody do who was involved in the abortion process in a big way, and wants out and wants to be a Christian? Would you block the way?

reply from: B0zo

Thank you for having the courage and humility to admit it and for helping to prevent others from making the same mistakes.
I can't believe my eyes that I am seeing people who call themselves Christians verbally stoning you for your past sins, instead of embracing you and celebrating your conversion.

reply from: Banned Member

Father Frank Pavone commented once that we might imagine what it is like for a priest, acting in the person of Jesus Christ, to have a penitent confess that he has killed a person. A priest can forgive that sin with the full authority of Jesus Christ. He then noted what it would be like for a priest to have a penitent enter the confessional and confess to not killing one person, but thousands. It's happened. That very moment has happened in confessionals. Abortionists having seen the brutality of abortion come to Christ Jesus and confess to having killed thousands of persons in abortion clinics. They are forgiven. But for others, sins becomes a justification to weild their own brand of holy righteousness.
If you want to know why Faithman and NancyU and 4Given doubt Abby Johnson, the reasons are two. One Abby is a former Planned Parenthood director. In some people minds barrier between pro-choice is not the difference between truth and error, but instead the difference between friends and enemies. Secondly, Abby does not condone violence committed in the name of pro-life activism. Abby, like myself, is not a friend of Scott Roeder. Our outspoken renunciation of Scott Roeder's actions and the refutation of NancyU's erroneous claim that abortion is not legal led to this internet assault on Abby as well as myself and others. As for Scott Roeder, he was simply a catalyst.
Enter the Army of God set. They are a stealth network of terrorists. They befriend hundreds on internet social sites, like Facebook and Myspace, people who are against pro-life violence. For what purpose I don't know. Perhaps casting a net for the like minded to find some other would be Roeder. Someone just asked me today if I thought that these people were really dangerous. The answer is yes. No one came out and asked Scott Roeder to shoot George Tiller. He was led by subtle pursuasion. He had contact with people who knew the comings and goings of Tiller. He knew people in the Army of God and other extremists groups. Scott Roeder was groomed by the slow subtle drone of fanaticism.
These extremists carefully and steadily frame the pro-life/pro-abortion in terms of biblical warfare until some unwell savage like Roeder becomes consumed in the fog of hate and is moved to violence. I'm sure that Scott Roeder felt entirely justified. Everyone he knew had encouraged his lunacy and zealotry and sent letters of "love and support" to the arrested Roeder. But when the legal charges were leveled, Scott Roeder stood alone in the courtroom. Scott's friends and supporters did not come before the evil courts and judges of a corrupt nation and offer to serve time with him. They fled like roaches in a bright light. Far from being a martyr, Roeder was disposed of like a tool.
Abby is a model of pro-life conversion and forgiveness and reason. Her equal denunciation of abortion and violent acts matches that of a hundred other prominent pro-life groups and individuals. Only Donald Spitz, Neal Horsley and other Army of God notables actually believe that Roeder was justified, but not ironically, they are doing so from very safe distances. Abby Johnson is no liar. And neither am I, or Lila Rose, or Frank Pavone and Priests for Life or any other good model of a pro-life advocates. I have noted that the personhood movements are being generated at a grass roots level by a more extreme element, even if it's supporters are more moderate and diverse. How so?
There are some who would not simply have this be a nation where Christians live and excercise their civic duties with informed consciences, but would have the United States become a theocracy with the Constitution as Holy Writ. They believe that abortion, as evil as it is, is moreover some kind of provocation for God's coming wrath and they believe themselves his chosen holy warriors. I have referred to it as Christo-Islamic extremism. They believe in some sort of predestination of good and evil and the judgement that would condemn or justify the players in this drama. They have lost sight of God's mercy and their sense of patriotism has become a sort of moral despotism.
These people, these extremists have lost a sense of reason. They have chosen an immoral event in our culture to play out cosmic battles of good and evil. For them, God has become an idol to justify their sense of righteousness. Extremist holay warriors always believe themselves to have some kind of inside track on the spiritual plain of existance, beyond faith, prayer and even holy scripture. They become prophets in their own mind, diagnosing the evils of the world beyond what even God himself. More than simply choosing good and evil, they believe themselves chosen instruments of God justice. Christ did not die on the Cross for justice however, but for mercy, faith, hope and love.

reply from: Banned Member

Well, here's the deal. I'm not convinced that your take on things is the only true path to enlightenment on this subject. However, I am convinced that you and B0zo and others up here are not the most astute judges of character. I don't see you as super social animals with great people skills or possessing any particular insightfulness concerning human nature. Sorry, but I just don't. You guys seem very naive to me in that you can't recognize when you are being scammed and/or you can't tell when you are dealing with an abnormal mentality.
Please ask yourself how you personally, with the moral vision and senseabilities that that you currently possess, could have ever participated in the activities that she's participated in and at the level she participated. She is fundamentally very different from you and I.
Personally, I would have to have go completely insane to ever even consider making a career out of killing fetuses.
My strong suspicion is that she's an amoral fruitcake.
Further, I suspect that her conversion is, in itself, a completely amoral decision that she's made. I believe even her conversion is either symptomatic of her insanity and represents a vain and self serving attempt to redeem herself, or a complete charade. Additionally, we can take a clue from her somewhat defiant attitude that this is an very ambitious and unrepentant woman. I believe she is still a dangerous and manipulative individual who is taking you all for a ride on the short bus to crazy town.
You have to admit that there is no way in hell that you guys would ever have been capable of doing what she's done.. but yet you claim to understand and sympathize with her? This person is not to be trusted. Don't forget, she's still capitalizing on her abortion career.. for crying out loud. That's bullsh!t enough right there.

reply from: B0zo

On the contrary, LN, I think I could have been the most wretched of sinners, including being an abortionist, had the circumstances in my life been different.
But I was blessed with circumstances that led to me walking a straight and narrow path (for the most part), and not because I'm unusually virtuous, but because I simply did not have the temptations and harships others had.
And you might not appreciate me speaking for you, but I think had you had different circumstances in your life, you could have become a number of things that you detest.
I think the saying about "walking a mile in someone's mocassins" before judging them is very wise.
But besides all this, if you're a Christian, then you know that people sin, and that sins can be forgiven. Could you have been one of those who cheered Christ and laid palm leaves in front of him and then soon after be demanding that he be crucified? I think you could have, and I think I could have, and regardless, I know that he came to save those people who were participants in the greatest injustice of all time. No matter how big a pile you make of dead fetuses, it cannot come close to the injustice of murdering God in the flesh.
But tell me, is there then no hope for the person who has aborted or who has counceled others to abort? There's no room in your version of Christianity for those people to repent and be forgiven?
Imagine you are on a bus or in a coffe shop taling to a teary eyed stranger. You ask him what is wrong and he confides in you that he's an abortionist, and that it's finally occurred to him that what he is doing is wrong, and he wants out and feels badly about what he's done. What do you say to him? Do you try to help or do you call him a killer and turn your back on him, and give him a reason to harden his hard to that which could heal and save?
And I don't see that she has "capitalized" on anything. Modest speaking fees are not unreasonable, and she's doing other prolife work as a volunteer. Certainly she could have done better financially staying where she was.
Further, some were so gleeful that Tiller's brains were on his church wall, and that he could no longer perform abortions, but why is there no cheering that this woman will not ever again tell someone to abort? It's the same thing, except she's alive.

reply from: Banned Member

Well, here's the deal. I'm not convinced that your take on things is the only true path to enlightenment on this subject. However, I am convinced that you and B0zo and others up here are not thee most astute judges of character. I don't see you as super social animals with great people skills or possessing any particular insightfulness concerning human nature. Sorry, but I just don't. You guys seem very naive to me in that you can't recognize when you are being scammed and/or you can't tell when you are dealing with an abnormal mentality.
Please ask yourself how you personally, with the moral vision and senseabilities that that you currently possess, could have ever participated in the activities that she's participated in and at the level she participated. She is fundamentally very different from you and I.
Personally, I would have to have go completely insane to ever even consider making a career out of killing fetuses.
My strong suspicion is that she's an amoral fruitcake.
Further, I suspect that her conversion is, in itself, a completely amoral decision that she's made. I believe even her conversion is either symptomatic of her insanity and represents a vain and self serving attempt to redeem herself, or a complete charade. Additionally, we can take a clue from her somewhat defiant attitude that this is an very ambitious and unrepentant woman. I believe she is still a dangerous and manipulative individual who is taking you all for a ride on the short bus to crazy town.
You have to admit that there is no way in hell that you guys would ever have been capable of doing what she's done.. but yet you claim to understand and sympathize with her? This person is not to be trusted. Don't forget, she's still capitalizing on her abortion career.. for crying out loud. That's bullsh!t enough right there.
The scanc is a baby killer. Now she even tries to use her position as a mid manger, in a little poedunk abortion clinic, as someone who has all this inside information on the tiller shooting? Why would a true pro-lifer, try to play down the effect it has had on the industry? She signed several death warrants for womb childre, had one killed herself, and now tries to tell us she really didn't know what the score was? GET REAL? Self justification is not repentance and godly sorrow. The pro-life bowel movement has made another monster into a hero.
Exactly, all this in addition to the fact that she's a diabolical nutcase.

reply from: Banned Member

Speak for yourself B0zo.
What was all that drivel? You know very little of my upbringing and nothing of hers so you have zero basis with which to justify your reasoning.
Know this.. she's nuttier than a fruitcake.. and I'm completely OK with you embracing her.
The problem is that you are trying to get me to go along with this horse manure and once again you are trying to manipulate how and what I think and are trying to get me to go against my instincts and better judgement. Please stop. It's none of your business. Why don't/can't you get that? Is it the Catholic crusader in you guys that makes you want to micromanage the way others think?
You still haven't come to terms with her obvious insanity. Work on that and not me, OK?

reply from: B0zo

A woman who worked at PP changed her mind about abortion and now is prolife AND is becoming a Catholic too.
This is obvious insanity?
You guys are slinging mud and nothing more than that, and have not come up with one legitimate criticism.

reply from: B0zo

Twice I have asked you LN what the repentant "pro aborti" is supposed to do, and you have declined to answer. Why? Is there no room in your Heaven for an abortionist who is sorry and wants Jesus to forgive him? Or in your world is it impossible that such a person could repent?

reply from: B0zo

Well, here's the deal. I'm not convinced that your take on things is the only true path to enlightenment on this subject. However, I am convinced that you and B0zo and others up here are not thee most astute judges of character. I don't see you as super social animals with great people skills or possessing any particular insightfulness concerning human nature. Sorry, but I just don't. You guys seem very naive to me in that you can't recognize when you are being scammed and/or you can't tell when you are dealing with an abnormal mentality.
Please ask yourself how you personally, with the moral vision and senseabilities that that you currently possess, could have ever participated in the activities that she's participated in and at the level she participated. She is fundamentally very different from you and I.
Personally, I would have to have go completely insane to ever even consider making a career out of killing fetuses.
My strong suspicion is that she's an amoral fruitcake.
Further, I suspect that her conversion is, in itself, a completely amoral decision that she's made. I believe even her conversion is either symptomatic of her insanity and represents a vain and self serving attempt to redeem herself, or a complete charade. Additionally, we can take a clue from her somewhat defiant attitude that this is an very ambitious and unrepentant woman. I believe she is still a dangerous and manipulative individual who is taking you all for a ride on the short bus to crazy town.
You have to admit that there is no way in hell that you guys would ever have been capable of doing what she's done.. but yet you claim to understand and sympathize with her? This person is not to be trusted. Don't forget, she's still capitalizing on her abortion career.. for crying out loud. That's bullsh!t enough right there.
The scanc is a baby killer. Now she even tries to use her position as a mid manger, in a little poedunk abortion clinic, as someone who has all this inside information on the tiller shooting? Why would a true pro-lifer, try to play down the effect it has had on the industry? She signed several death warrants for womb childre, had one killed herself, and now tries to tell us she really didn't know what the score was? GET REAL? Self justification is not repentance and godly sorrow. The pro-life bowel movement has made another monster into a hero.
She'll never counsel another woman to have an abortion again and you're unhappy about it.
But you're happy Tiller's brains are on his church wall.
You're a hypocrite.

reply from: B0zo

I find that frustrating. You asked legitimate questions, but they answer with a snide remark or a personal insult, which speaks volumes about how legitimate their issues are with you.
And good for you that you can handle it so well.

reply from: Banned Member

Well, here's the deal. I'm not convinced that your take on things is the only true path to enlightenment on this subject. However, I am convinced that you and B0zo and others up here are not the most astute judges of character. I don't see you as super social animals with great people skills or possessing any particular insightfulness concerning human nature. Sorry, but I just don't. You guys seem very naive to me in that you can't recognize when you are being scammed and/or you can't tell when you are dealing with an abnormal mentality.
Please ask yourself how you personally, with the moral vision and senseabilities that that you currently possess, could have ever participated in the activities that she's participated in and at the level she participated. She is fundamentally very different from you and I.
Personally, I would have to have go completely insane to ever even consider making a career out of killing fetuses.
My strong suspicion is that she's an amoral fruitcake.
Further, I suspect that her conversion is, in itself, a completely amoral decision that she's made. I believe even her conversion is either symptomatic of her insanity and represents a vain and self serving attempt to redeem herself, or a complete charade. Additionally, we can take a clue from her somewhat defiant attitude that this is an very ambitious and unrepentant woman. I believe she is still a dangerous and manipulative individual who is taking you all for a ride on the short bus to crazy town.
You have to admit that there is no way in hell that you guys would ever have been capable of doing what she's done.. but yet you claim to understand and sympathize with her? This person is not to be trusted. Don't forget, she's still capitalizing on her abortion career.. for crying out loud. That's bullsh!t enough right there.
How righteous of you, to believe that none other than like yourself can know God. The repentent are all frauds is that correct? Is God's mercy and grace so small to make conversion impossible?

reply from: B0zo

I think she's being perfectly candid, but if I were called an a**wipe or a scanc by fellow prolifers and Christians as soon as I arrived on a board, I would be puzzled by their vulgarity and nastiness, and would have my guard up just a little.
Do you have an example or two of her "defiant attidude" so that I might see how that would logically lead to declaring that she is "ambitions and unrepentant"?

reply from: Banned Member

Father Frank Pavone commented once that we might imagine what it is like for a priest, acting in the person of Jesus Christ, to have a penitent confess that he has killed a person. A priest can forgive that sin with the full authority of Jesus Christ. He then noted what it would be like for a priest to have a penitent enter the confessional and confess to not killing one person, but thousands. It's happened. That very moment has happened in confessionals. Abortionists having seen the brutality of abortion come to Christ Jesus and confess to having killed thousands of persons in abortion clinics. They are forgiven. But for others, sins becomes a justification to weild their own brand of holy righteousness.
If you want to know why Faithman, NancyU and 4Given (of PLA) doubt Abby Johnson, the reasons are two. One Abby is a former Planned Parenthood director. In some people minds barrier between pro-choice is not the difference between truth and error, but instead the difference between friends and enemies. Secondly, Abby does not condone violence committed in the name of pro-life activism. Abby, like myself, is not a friend of Scott Roeder. Our outspoken renunciation of Scott Roeder's actions and the refutation of NancyU's erroneous claim that abortion is not legal led to this internet assault on Abby as well as myself and others. As for Scott Roeder, he was simply a catalyst.
Enter the Army of God set. They are a stealth network of terrorists. They befriend hundreds on internet social sites, like Facebook and Myspace, people who are against pro-life violence. For what purpose I don't know. Perhaps casting a net for the like minded to find some other would be Roeder. Someone just asked me today if I thought that these people were really dangerous. The answer is yes. No one came out and asked Scott Roeder to shoot George Tiller. He was led by subtle pursuasion. He had contact with people who knew the comings and goings of Tiller. He knew people in the Army of God and other extremists groups. Scott Roeder was groomed by the slow subtle drone of fanaticism.
These extremists carefully and steadily frame the pro-life/pro-abortion in terms of biblical warfare until some unwell savage like Roeder becomes consumed in the fog of hate and is moved to violence. I'm sure that Scott Roeder felt entirely justified. Everyone he knew had encouraged his lunacy and zealotry and sent letters of "love and support" to the arrested Roeder. But when the legal charges were leveled, Scott Roeder stood alone in the courtroom. Scott's friends and supporters did not come before the evil courts and judges of a corrupt nation and offer to serve time with him. They fled like roaches in a bright light. Far from being a martyr, Roeder was disposed of like a tool.
Abby is a model of pro-life conversion and forgiveness and reason. Her equal denunciation of abortion and violent acts matches that of a hundred other prominent pro-life groups and individuals. Only Donald Spitz, Neal Horsley and other Army of God notables actually believe that Roeder was justified, but not ironically, they are doing so from very safe distances. Abby Johnson is no liar. And neither am I, or Lila Rose, or Frank Pavone and Priests for Life or any other good model of a pro-life advocates. I have however noted that the personhood movements are being generated at a grass roots level by a more extreme element, even if it's supporters are more moderate and diverse. How so?
There are some who would not simply have this be a nation where Christians live and excercise their civic duties with informed consciences, but would have the United States become a theocracy with the Constitution as Holy Writ. They believe that abortion, as evil as it is, is moreover some kind of provocation for God's coming wrath and they believe themselves his chosen holy warriors. I have referred to it as Christo-Islamic extremism. They believe in some sort of predestination of good and evil and the judgement that would condemn or justify the players in this drama. They have lost sight of God's mercy and their sense of faith and patriotism has become a sort of moral despotism.
These people, these extremists have lost a sense of reason. They have chosen an immoral event in our culture to play out cosmic battles of good and evil. For them, God has become an idol to justify their sense of righteousness. Extremist holay warriors always believe themselves to have some kind of inside track on the spiritual plain of existance, beyond faith, prayer and even holy scripture. They become prophets in their own mind, diagnosing the evils of the world beyond what even God himself. More than simply choosing good and evil, they believe themselves chosen instruments of God justice. Christ did not die on the Cross for justice however, but for mercy, faith, hope and love.

reply from: B0zo

Abby Johnoson no longer works for Planned Parenthood.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
She is now sidewalk counselling and encouraging women to not abort.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Regardless of whatever motive, real, imagined, or projected, she speaks out against abortion and speaks in favor of protecting the unborn.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
To those inclined to throw stones at her--would you rather she were back at PP telling women to have abortions?

reply from: carolemarie

I am glad she changed her position and happy that she is working to make a difference. You know, what she did yesterday doesn't matter, just what she is doing now!

reply from: Banned Member

OK.. here goes. I don't care what she does. She's a fraud and a liar and a killer, plus, she's nuts.
Jesus may forgive her provided he deems her worthy.
People repent all the time. Especially when they are caught red handed.
You say you asked me twice what a repentant abortionist was supposed to do? I could not possibly care less what she does, so that is the end of that.
Let me repost something that you either failed to read or chose to ignore, in the hope to clear up my position and your confusion, and perhaps then you will stop with your inane questions.
Leftsnemesis said;
"The problem is that you are trying to get me to go along with this horse manure and once again you are trying to manipulate how and what I think and are trying to get me to go against my instincts and better judgement. Please stop. It's none of your business. Why don't/can't you get that? Is it the Catholic crusader in you guys that makes you want to micromanage the way others think?
You still haven't come to terms with her obvious insanity. Work on that and not me, OK?"
At one point you asked me what made me so sure she was nuts and then you simply refused to accept my graciously well thought out answer. So that makes it your problem.. not mine. On second thought.. perhaps that was in a reply to Augustine. Whatever.. look it up if you're interested.

reply from: Banned Member

Well, here's the deal. I'm not convinced that your take on things is the only true path to enlightenment on this subject. However, I am convinced that you and B0zo and others up here are not the most astute judges of character. I don't see you as super social animals with great people skills or possessing any particular insightfulness concerning human nature. Sorry, but I just don't. You guys seem very naive to me in that you can't recognize when you are being scammed and/or you can't tell when you are dealing with an abnormal mentality.
Please ask yourself how you personally, with the moral vision and senseabilities that that you currently possess, could have ever participated in the activities that she's participated in and at the level she participated. She is fundamentally very different from you and I.
Personally, I would have to have go completely insane to ever even consider making a career out of killing fetuses.
My strong suspicion is that she's an amoral fruitcake.
Further, I suspect that her conversion is, in itself, a completely amoral decision that she's made. I believe even her conversion is either symptomatic of her insanity and represents a vain and self serving attempt to redeem herself, or a complete charade. Additionally, we can take a clue from her somewhat defiant attitude that this is an very ambitious and unrepentant woman. I believe she is still a dangerous and manipulative individual who is taking you all for a ride on the short bus to crazy town.
You have to admit that there is no way in hell that you guys would ever have been capable of doing what she's done.. but yet you claim to understand and sympathize with her? This person is not to be trusted. Don't forget, she's still capitalizing on her abortion career.. for crying out loud. That's bullsh!t enough right there.
How righteous of you, to believe that none other than like yourself can know God. The repentent are all frauds is that correct? Is God's mercy and grace so small to make conversion impossible?
Boy, that's rich.. coming from you of all people, WOW!
I made no such claim and have no idea where that came from.
Concerning God's mercy.. am I somehow in control of that?
Here what's up. She can lie to me and you but she can't lie to God. So however that goes.. then that's how it went. You can embrace her all you want and I can't and don't care to stop you. I don't care a wit for what naive dreamers chose to do.
Still, I can't help but wonder what you guys would be saying about her repentance if she had decided to join the Mormon church instead of the Catholic church. Don't bother responding because I won't believe a thing you have to say about it.

reply from: Banned Member

. . . Bwahahahahaa!
Yes.. (snicker) only you.. (snicker)

reply from: Banned Member

What are you going to do if I don't answer you.. kill me?

reply from: B0zo

. . . Bwahahahahaa!
Yes.. (snicker) only you.. (snicker)
My sense of humor has not evolved to the point where verbal abuse is funny.

reply from: B0zo

What are you going to do if I don't answer you.. kill me?
You haven't answered my question either, so I'll repeat it.
Are you playing the role of a rude jackass for the sake of your own amusement, and possibly the sake of the amusement of some of the dregs around here, or is this the real you?

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

Really? So if yesterday she was killing babies again but today she was advocating against it, you'd say it didn't matter? And if she continued to go back and forth between the two you wouldn't think it matters?

reply from: B0zo

Really? So if yesterday she was killing babies again but today she was advocating against it, you'd say it didn't matter? And if she continued to go back and forth between the two you wouldn't think it matters?
Yeah, that's what she means...
Where's the eyeroll emoticon when you need it?
Just look at the context of the statement please.

reply from: B0zo

I hadn't known in the beginning she was converting to Catholicism. As a Catholic, that's wonderful, and icing on the cake, but I'm happy about the conversion from prochoice abortion industry worker, to prolife advocate.
She's no longer telling women to have abortions, but telling them NOT TO HAVE ABORTIONS.
That's not good enough for you?
You don't really have to worry about judging what's going on in her heart, because that's God's business, so now you've got a whole lot less to worry about, and all you really need to judge are the actions, so if you see her sneaking back into her PP office at night with her spy camera and photos of you guys wearing your tinfoil hats, then you might be onto something. Otherwise, you are looking a gift horse in the mouth, and are slamming someone who is now working hard to prevent abortions, which is pretty stupid, unless you're an abortion rights advocate.
And I would have believed she was sincerely repentant regardless of the religion she chose, but believe it even stronger because of her choice of Catholicism, because she has chosen the most challenging and most demanding road.

reply from: Banned Member

I hadn't known in the beginning she was converting to Catholicism. As a Catholic, that's wonderful, and icing on the cake, but I'm happy about the conversion from prochoice abortion industry worker, to prolife advocate.
She's no longer telling women to have abortions, but telling them NOT TO HAVE ABORTIONS.
That's not good enough for you?
You don't really have to worry about judging what's going on in her heart, because that's God's business, so now you've got a whole lot less to worry about, and all you really need to judge are the actions, so if you see her sneaking back into her PP office at night with her spy camera and photos of you guys wearing your tinfoil hats, then you might be onto something. Otherwise, you are looking a gift horse in the mouth, and are slamming someone who is now working hard to prevent abortions, which is pretty stupid, unless you're an abortion rights advocate.
And I would have believed she was sincerely repentant regardless of the religion she chose, but believe it even stronger because of her choice of Catholicism, because she has chosen the most challenging and most demanding road.
Abby doesn't support shooting abortion providers. She is speaking the truth about abortion and the abortion industry. That and she is at least respectful of Catholicism. That makes her evil to the hee-haw hillbillies who mingle with Army of God folk here. God love and protect her.

reply from: B0zo

The mud slingers and character assasinators have not addressed the obvious: Abby used to tell women to have abortions, and now she tells them not to.
Where is the "fraud" in that?
Why is that a bad thing?

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

Really? So if yesterday she was killing babies again but today she was advocating against it, you'd say it didn't matter? And if she continued to go back and forth between the two you wouldn't think it matters?
Yeah, that's what she means...
Where's the eyeroll emoticon when you need it?
Just look at the context of the statement please.
Carole said "what she dd yesterday doesn't matter, just what she is doing now". That's why I asked that. I don't understand why Carol would think that what Abby did yesterday (or, in this case, months ago) doesn't matter. The fact is, Abby used to help babies get killled, she doesn't do that anymore, but the fact she used to does matter (at least to an extent).
I quoted her whole post. It was in reply to people calling Abby Johnson a liar and dissing her. I agree with Carole on part of it, it is good that Abby converted (or is atleast speaking out against baby killing).
Even if Abby is lying about being pro-life now, the fact that she is speaking out against baby killing is a good thing, right? The press she's getting for the Pro-Life (anti-baby killing) side is good, right? How exactly does her work against baby killing hurt anyone or the cause?

reply from: B0zo

Really? So if yesterday she was killing babies again but today she was advocating against it, you'd say it didn't matter? And if she continued to go back and forth between the two you wouldn't think it matters?
Yeah, that's what she means...
Where's the eyeroll emoticon when you need it?
Just look at the context of the statement please.
Carole said "what she dd yesterday doesn't matter, just what she is doing now". That's why I asked that. I don't understand why Carol would think that what Abby did yesterday (or, in this case, months ago) doesn't matter. The fact is, Abby used to help babies get killled, she doesn't do that anymore, but the fact she used to does matter (at least to an extent).
I quoted her whole post. It was in reply to people calling Abby Johnson a liar and dissing her. I agree with Carole on part of it, it is good that Abby converted (or is atleast speaking out against baby killing).
Even if Abby is lying about being pro-life now, the fact that she is speaking out against baby killing is a good thing, right? The press she's getting for the Pro-Life (anti-baby killing) side is good, right? How exactly does her work against baby killing hurt anyone or the cause?
It's just an expression, meaning that we don't need to hold the past against her. She's a new person.
And I agree with your last statement. She's doing good pro-life work now. Why should anyone on the prolife side discourage or denigrate her? It's crazy.

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

I was told by my great, great uncle to keep a person's past in mind but not to keep it as the entire reason for my opinion of the person. While we shouldn't judge her based solely on that (or at all for that matter), it is good to know her past just in case something happens.
The past does need to be known for some things. I wouldn't want to get a baby killer (or former baby killer) as a babysitter, or get someone who supports healthcare rationing, euthanasia, and all forms of suicide to help out my aging grandmother.
Yea, it is crazy to discourage someone from speaking out against baby killing, unless they secretly (or not so secretly) support baby killing.

reply from: B0zo

QUESTION FOR ABBY:
You've been on at least Fox, and probably other major networks, and your story has been heard by millions. Correct?
And you're involved in prolife work including speaking engagements to large groups of people.
So why are you here on this board taking grief from a handful of internet posters? Why are their comments worthy of being addressed? Are you facing similar challenges in real life too?

reply from: Banned Member

I still don't trust her and I don't care for her occasional use of thinly veiled insults and how she underestimates the perceptual acuity of those on this forum whom she directs her passive aggressive aspersions toward. The last person I'm going to take any cr@p from is a baby killer, former or otherwise.
Like I said before, you can love her up all you want, that's your business. What the hell does it matter to anyone but her what I think about her? Do you think she's so weak that she can't stand her own ground? Not true, I can assure you that this is a hard woman who can defend herself more than adequately for the purposes of this forum.

reply from: B0zo

Once again...she used to tell women to have abortions and now she tells women to NOT have abortions.
Why should a prolifer denigrate another prolifer who is doing actual prolife work?

reply from: Banned Member

Re-read your last line. Now go ahead and read your extended insulting diatribe that precedes it.
I'm starting to think that you are a complete un-selfaware dolt. Besides being wrong about everything you speculated about, you end this little disrespectful paragraph by stating how important it is to never talk disrespectful about others. Perhaps you should try editing for hypocrisy next time prior to posting.
Additionally, and more importantly, who gives a cr@p if you respect me. You're the one that's seeking approval, not us? You're the former fetus killer. I, for one, don't seek or need your validation or anyone else's for that matter. You seem to be projecting your own personal needs and upon us. Please stop.
Thank you for posting this revealing psychobabble as it helps us to understand you better.
Blather on.

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

A child is child, born or not. If someone can't be trusted with a pre-born child, they can't be trusted with a born child (in my opinion).
The fact that you converted from supporting baby killing to not supporting it shows your beliefs are not set in stone, which means there is a chance you could convert back to supporting baby killing (I'm not saying it will happen, but it could if your past is any indication... I hope you continue to respect life in all stages).

reply from: Banned Member

1. Am I supposed to be surprised by that?
2. Bullsh!t
3. More bullsh!t. Your actual perception of me is that, I am on to you, and that's what drives your need to marginalize me and my comments.
Irregardless of what you think, you are not special, and you aren't original, and you are a lot more transparent than you believe yourself to be.
I'm left to wonder, if I'm just a miserable sourpuss, then why do you go to all the trouble of trying to straighten me out and put me in my place. Why don't you just ignore me? Give up? Here's why,.. because I accurately perceive the truth, and am telling the truth, and, as we all know, the truth hurts. It hurts so much that you can't bare to leave it alone and just ignore me. You can't help yourself. You just have to have the last word. Oh my, how anxious we seem.
By the way, your need is so desperate, that I'm praying for you ten times as much as you are praying for me.
There, see what I've learned from you? I've learned that telling someone that you are praying for them can be a very snarky way of insinuating that they are pretty messed up, all the while maintaining the appearance of being benevolent and sincere with no ulterior motive.
I didn't really learn that from you actually, because I've seen that done before. However, I did just throw it back into your face. How'd that feel by the way?
I usually avoid engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.. but in your case I'm willing to make an exception.
Oh.. before I forget.. and just for the record, I'd like to start keeping score on our respective personal behaviors. So far I've helped facilitate the death of: 0 (zero) persons and I believe your tally stands, (by your own admission), at somewhere around: 2,000.
Now what was it you were saying about how lovely and deserving a person you are?

reply from: B0zo

Keep up the good work Abby, and don't let the sour grapes crowd discourage you.
Why they would want to discourage you and your prolife work boggles my mind, but that's how it is, and their verbal abuse of you says nothing about you, but lots about them and what motivates them.

reply from: Banned Member

Hey abbykb, regarding this part of your previous post:
"TH, your comment is still very strange to me. Just because I worked in an abortion clinic does not make me a "danger" to children. Just seems like a very strange judgement to make on someone. I guess there are very few people that would be allowed to be around children, in your mind. If we can't really repent of our sins and our past will always be held against us, and we all may just turn back to our sinful ways in the drop of a hat, then boy...we must be in trouble. No one is safe since we are all sinners. I guess repentence and God's grace means nothing to you."
It occurred to me that there's something you don't understand that I'm willing to help you with. You see, you believe that what you did was simply immoral, whereas some of us believe that what you did, although technically legal, was tantamount to committing mass murder, and since you've admitted to your deeds, you seem very much like a convicted murderer who's gotten off on a technicality. Should your past be held against you? Well, the sins of a convict's past tend to hang on to them like a glued on dirty shirt and is, in fact, held against them in their permanent personal record. So, until enough time goes by so that no one can remember who you are or what you've done, you will continue to wear it.
Although you feel compelled to continually remind us poor dumb folks about God's willingness to forgive all transgressions, this forgiveness business doesn't come so easy to us mortals. It's not my job to see that you get into heaven but I guarantee you that I'll try to find you when the time comes around. I'm quite sure I'll still be very interested in whether or not you actually manage to make an appearance after all.

reply from: Banned Member

Why do you feel the need to stick your big red nose into things continually?
Also, why are you lying about me?
I have not discouraged her to from doing good work. You can look for it but you won't find it because I didn't say it, huh-uh, no sir, you just made it up.
Truth telling is only verbally abusive when the listener doesn't like hearing it.
But I suppose it's too much to ask you to stop clowning around and do some research on this topic. Oh well, you know what they say, you can lead a clown to water but you can't hold his head under without his make-up getting all messed up.

reply from: B0zo

She is washed clean in the Blood of Christ if you believe in Christian doctrine, which I suspect you do not.
She was participating in a legal process and we all bear the responsibility for it, not just her and those who have aborted. The law told her it was a good thing to do.
We don't have any responsibility to forgive her. It's not our business to forgive her or hold it against her. She didn't sin against any of us that I know of.
And how are you so certain you will be in Heaven to look for her? And what if you did find her there? Would you be disappointed?

reply from: B0zo

Why do you feel the need to stick your big red nose into things continually?
Also, why are you lying about me?
I have not discouraged her to from doing good work. You can look for it but you won't find it because I didn't say it, huh-uh, no sir, you just made it up.
Truth telling is only verbally abusive when the listener doesn't like hearing it.
But I suppose it's too much to ask you to stop clowning around and do some research on this topic. Oh well, you know what they say, you can lead a clown to water but you can't hold his head under without his make-up getting all messed up.
You are not the only member of the Let's Beat Up Abby Club, so don't take it personally.

reply from: Banned Member

You're "on to" what, exactly that is worthy of any consideration?
She's protesting at abortion clinics and striving to protect the unborn. What do you think is going on there? You think PP is paying her to do that? You think she's encouraging those women to abort?
She is now speaking out against planned parenthood and against abortion. What are you "on to" about that? How is that not serving the prolife side, and how is it serving the abortion side?
B0z, you have no idea what I was referring to with that comment but you went right ahead and drew your imagined conclusions. Off the deep end you go.
I'm not going to waste energy bringing you up to speed just because you were too lazy to re-read the thread thoroughly enough to understand a conversation that didn't involve you in the first place. (Deep sigh)

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

Since you worked in an aborton clinic you were a danger to children. With all the things about your conversion that don't add up, I'm skeptical. That isn't so much holding your past against you as being overly careful. Plus, I'm not sure how good the judgement of someone who helped with abortions could be (I mean, after seeing something so horrorific, that couldn't have been good for you).
You're right, "God's grace" doesn't mean anything to me as I don't believe in God since I'm not sure whether or no he/she/it/they exist(s). The only "God" I believe in is Nature (Nature does fit a definition of God).

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

She was afraid she was going to get fired, then started saying she converted to being Pro-Life after assisting during an abortion that never happend on a pregnant woman who wasn't in the clinic that day? Something definately sounds off about that.
She was happy about helping with abortions?!?!?... Then she said she saw an abortion and converted to being Pro-life...
I think Serena from Feminists For Choice said it best
Does Abby have an explanation for those things too?

reply from: B0zo

She's standing outside of clinics trying to talk women out of having abortions!
HOW IS THAT A DANGER TO THE UNBORN???!!!
Seems to me to be quite the opposite.

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

She's standing outside of clinics trying to talk women out of having abortions!
HOW IS THAT A DANGER TO THE UNBORN???!!!
Seems to me to be quite the opposite.
Did I say she is currently a danger to anyone?
Were, as in was previously, as in past tense.
She currently helps babies (which is Great!!!). She used to help them get killed.

reply from: B0zo

She's standing outside of clinics trying to talk women out of having abortions!
HOW IS THAT A DANGER TO THE UNBORN???!!!
Seems to me to be quite the opposite.
Did I say she is currently a danger to anyone?
Were, as in was previously, as in past tense.
She currently helps babies (which is Great!!!). She used to help them get killed.
I'm having a hard time understanding the way you hold a person's past against them, especially when they're now doing the opposite. That last comment was totally unnecessary.

reply from: Banned Member

You're "on to" what, exactly that is worthy of any consideration?
She's protesting at abortion clinics and striving to protect the unborn. What do you think is going on there? You think PP is paying her to do that? You think she's encouraging those women to abort?
She is now speaking out against planned parenthood and against abortion. What are you "on to" about that? How is that not serving the prolife side, and how is it serving the abortion side?
B0z, you have no idea what I was referring to with that comment but you went right ahead and drew your imagined conclusions. Off the deep end you go.
I'm not going to waste energy bringing you up to speed just because you were too lazy to re-read the thread thoroughly enough to understand a conversation that didn't involve you in the first place. (Deep sigh)
Lefty, you are one arrogant self righteous SOB.
I wouldn't want to encounter you on the street randomly unless I had a club in my hand. You are like seriously full of hate scary angry. Get some help man. Medicate.

reply from: Shenanigans

You sound like the grumpy older son in the story of the prodigal son:
Luke 15: 29
He answered his father, 'Lo, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command; yet you never gave me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends. But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your living with harlots, you killed for him the fatted calf!' And he said to him, 'Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. It was fitting to make merry and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"
Luke 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Not to mention, those women who have aborted, tehy know what they're talkign about. Women seeking abortions are not going to really be swayed away from having one by people who stand self-righteous in the fact they have NOT had an abortion and start telling them about it. If someone told you that chocolate ice cream was the worst, and yet you had not had ice cream at all, how can you be held as a reliable source?
People like Nathanson and this Abby lady, they know the ins and outs of the industry. The pro-abort movement can poo poo the ramblings of the pro-lifer against their clinics, they can class them as lies and deciet, but when those same statements are made by someone who was actually there, knee deep in dead children and the tears of women, the statements suddenly carry a lot more weight.

reply from: Shenanigans

The other day at Mass we had a homily about Luke 7: 41
It speaks of two men owing different amounts, and yet being pardoned for the debts. One man owed a little, the other owed a lot.
The question:
Who would love the Lord more? The person who's small debt was forgiven or the person with the larger debt forgiven?

reply from: Shenanigans

Apparently their great uncle told them to always remember a person's past.
Kinda of bitter grudge holding if you ask me, not to mention a sin against forgiveness and hope, but they're not Christian so its kinda moot on that point.

reply from: Banned Member

Apparently their great uncle told them to always remember a person's past. Kinda of bitter grudge holding if you ask me, not to mention a sin against forgiveness and hope, but they're not Christian so its kinda moot on that point.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~

It kind of cracks me up.

Both Nancyu and Faithman claimed that their faith changed their lives, but they don't extend that privledge to anyone else.

reply from: Banned Member

You're "on to" what, exactly that is worthy of any consideration?
She's protesting at abortion clinics and striving to protect the unborn. What do you think is going on there? You think PP is paying her to do that? You think she's encouraging those women to abort?
She is now speaking out against planned parenthood and against abortion. What are you "on to" about that? How is that not serving the prolife side, and how is it serving the abortion side?
B0z, you have no idea what I was referring to with that comment but you went right ahead and drew your imagined conclusions. Off the deep end you go.
I'm not going to waste energy bringing you up to speed just because you were too lazy to re-read the thread thoroughly enough to understand a conversation that didn't involve you in the first place. (Deep sigh)
Lefty, you are one arrogant self righteous SOB.
I wouldn't want to encounter you on the street randomly unless I had a club in my hand. You are like seriously full of hate scary angry. Get some help man. Medicate.
Mega lulz.
Of all the things you could have quoted, why in Heaven did you bother to quote that last post? If that last quote was what actually inspired you to lash out like that, then I guess I'm completely exonerated of all charges.
I know that I've been chapping your @ss here lately with all this converted killer business and I believe that you meant what you said about me. Still, wouldn't your outburst have had more impact if hadn't been presented in such a non-sequitious manner?
I just love that you started your post with; "you are one arrogant self righteous SOB". Considering the source, this is not only ironic as all get out, but also a clear indication of your lack of self awareness. Don't worry too much about that though, there's lots of people who have difficulty seeing themselves clearly. It's quite common really.
How nice it was of you to include my poor dear dead Mother in your opening line of insult. I literally busted out laughing when I read that. A mean guy naming another guy mean.. such rich irony is precious and rare.
Finally, I got a kick out of witnessing an agitated man recommending tranquilizing medications. LOL. You're killing with that stuff.
Thank you for giving me my final Father's Day gift.
P.S. I'm not really so much, as you say; "hate scary angry", as I am dangerously determined.
Good day to you Sir.

reply from: Shenanigans

Funny how the world works. ^_^

reply from: B0zo

It's pretty crappy that some prolifers have joined in with Planned Parenthood in disparaging Abby.
I've seen prolifers on this forum bahave pathetically, but I didn't expect this.
And not a word of thanks or encouragement. Just sour grapes.

reply from: Banned Member

At one point PP embraced her just as you have. So what does that make you? That PP comment is just plain mean and devoid of truth. This issue sure has got under your skin. You don't seem so likable lately. Perhaps you should blame it on me and claim that I'm a bad influence on you. Oh no.. you've joined me!

reply from: nancyu

Funny how the world works. ^_^
I did? When did I claim that "my faith changed my life"? I don't recall ever saying anything like that. Not that it's anything new for you to invent stuff...

reply from: Ironfist

Why the need to falsify your life to make a "better" story? Where do the lies end and the truth begin? Abby's stories go beyond some book. I find it sickening to make money off lies in the name of preborn babies. Anytime someone approaches her even in the most genuine way to ask her about her lies she is quick with an insult. That's precisely what she did to me. Lies are for people who are fearful. Why be fearful? And for Abby to claim any relationship with Jesus Christ while perpetuating lies is a ticket to damnation. Don't take my word on it though. You need go no further than the ninth commandment. It's sick and disgusting! How can anyone respect someone who has to lie to get by? And anyone who enables her by buying into her load of garbage is one and the same.

reply from: faithman

Truth means nothing to a phony opportunist , who is out to make a buck and get back at an employer who was tired of substandard job preformance.

reply from: Elessar

Isn't it Mark Crutcher who has for 20 years told 'don't trust Planned Parenthood', 'don't believe these people, they lie'? Isn't it Crutcher who along said that Planned Parenthood can't be trusted to tell the truth? That they have things to hide and that their real agenda is increasing the number of abortions? Isn't it Crutcher who made a living in the pro-life movement by bringing Planned Parenthood to court? Isn't it Mark Crutcher who made the film Maafa21 to expose Planned Parenthood's historical roots and now sells that movie for money? For money? Is Crutcher a phony for turning a buck? Was Crutcher wrong when he says that Planned Parenthood lies?
And now you call Abby Johnson a phony? A liar? When she says essentially says that all that Crutcher has said about Planned Parenthood all these years is true you call her a liar? You deny the conversion to truth and reason? You have some audacity. The conversion of people like Abby is exactly the reason people like myself got into this movement and stay in this movement day after day. It wasn't to make one group of people hate another group of people. People in Planned Parenthood aren't the devil. They are simply deceived by his lives. They are the people who we hope will hear people's message to repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand! Would you drive them back into the darkness? Perhaps you have forgotten why you ever became involved in the pro-life movement.

reply from: Ironfist

Who said hate? I dislike the fact that Abby has to spin tales in order to make her seem genuine. She lies about the abortion and ultrasound procedure. Before quitting, Abby praised ultrasound abortions because they help everything move more smoothly and more safely. After the day she spent, the whole day, performing these ultrasounds during abortions, she was happy and excited and told people about how good it felt. It's more than some records. Abby's own words doom her.
http://community.feministing.c...ohnson.html/
http://community.feministing.com/2009/11/abby-johnson.html

reply from: AshMarie88

LOL, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. You have no proof. Oh, and the links don't work.

reply from: Ironfist

LOL, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. You have no proof. Oh, and the links don't work.
You know what is funny? That you say I have no proof when there is plenty in the first few posts. Whats even funnier is that because of a couple corrupted links you think I won't find them again and repost them. Here is one to mull around. Apparently the http part of the link was not forum friendly. So you simply copy and paste the link to your browser and it will take you right there. Wait a whole minute and then insert foot into mouth I even posted some of the text from the interview for those who don't want to do their research like I did and listen to the show and hear her words for themselves. Would you like your humble pie with or without whipped cream? Now that's funny lol!
www.blogtalkradio.com/informationunderground/2009/09/20/information-underground--september-20-2009
Week in headlines. This week on Information Underground the studio guest will be Abby Johnson, the Health Center Director of the Planned Parenthood in Bryan-College Station. The topics of conversation will include the current state of reproductive rights both in the United States and in Texas, separating fact from fiction in reproductive health care and abortion, and the protest of reproductive health facilities including the 40 Days for Life protest by the Coalition for Life that is scheduled to begin on September 23rd.
At the time of the writing of this post, Planned Parenthood has not released any further information about why the restraining order is needed but, according to Planned Parenthood officials in Texas, they are working on a statement currently.
What might be the most shocking juxtaposition, however, is this interview aired on September 20, 2009, just weeks ago on KEOS, a small college radio station.
During the interview, Ms. Johnson not only makes clear that her Planned Parenthood center's abortion services make up only 3% of their services, which, according to Diane Quest, National Media Director for Planned Parenthood Federation of America, is about on par with the national numbers - "Planned Parenthood's focus is on prevention. Nationwide,
more than 90% of the health care Planned Parenthood affiliates provide is
preventive in nature, including wellness exams, breast and cervical cancer
screenings, contraception, and STD testing and treatment." She also says that the "entirely separate" 501(c)3 (nonprofit) corporation that funds their abortion services received a $30 million grant from a private anonymous donor recently to keep their abortion services running.
From the interview:
Interviewer: What percentage of your services are abortion?
Johnson: About 3%.
Interviewer: So, it's not really much.
Johnson: No.
Interviewer: So when people label you an
abortion facility are they being truthful when they are saying that?
Johnson: Well not unless you think 3% is an overwhelming amount I
guess, but no, we don't think so. We think 3% is a very small amount and
our - I guess our goal has always been that every pregnancy is intended
and wanted and um, when we see a dip in abortion numbers we consider that a
success.
When the interviewer asks her specifically about funding for PP's programs, here's what Abby Johnson says,
PP is a Medicaid provider. First off, PP is divided up into separate
corporations. So, there is a Planned Parenthood 501c3 non profit that is a family
planning corporation. Also, there is a PP surgical services corporation that is our abortion
and vasectomy services. They are totally separate corporations. The surgical services corporation,
regardless of what you might hear, receives no government funding - all private
donations. And then almost two years ago we received about 30 million
dollars in an anonymous donation from a foundation to help women receive abortion services where money was a barrier.

That sort of runs roughshod over her allegations made in the television interview that some unnamed higher-up at Planned Parenthood encouraged her to increase abortions for financial reasons, doesn't it?
But what's more fascinating is the myriad ways (and keep in mind this interview was done, seemingly, around the same exact time in which she has apparently had a conversion and is keeping it a secret from all except 40 Days for Life) in which she passionately discusses her deeply held belief that women need access to abortion services for their well-being and health:
Interviewer: Why did you become involved in reproductive health care?
Johson: It's important to me because i think it's a human rights issue. I had talked with some physicians who performed abortions pre-Roe v. Wade and listened to them talk about their horror stories of women who had to have illegal abortions and the way they would perform them and how they would have to watch women die from illegal procedures and that really hit home for me as a woman and as a mother. I don't ever want to go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended or unwanted pregnancy. So, it was very personal for me.
Where did Ms. Johnson's concerns for women's health and lives, her plea for things never to "go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended...pregnancy" go? Where do these fears live now, Ms. Johnson?
Perhaps the most damning and confusing parts of the interview, however, are related to the lengthy conversation about 40 Days for Life, Coalition for Life, their protests and anti-choice violence as of late.
When the interviewer asks her about all of the protests that her center has had to endure as well as the overall effect of anti-choice campaigning against them including a claim by Coalition for Life that her PP had failed a health inspection, Ms. Johnson responds by calling the Coalition for Life liars, essentially, and denigrates them,
The Coalition (for Life) made claims that we didn't sterilize instruments - that was absolutely not true. The only thing that had anything to do with patient care - right now we're on electronic records but back in 2006 we still had charts. The Texas Department of Health wanted to take a significant number of charts outside the clinic and we didn't allow it and they wrote it up as a deficiency. They said because they are the state they can take out whatever records they want and we argued that we promise our patients we won't allow their records to be removed and we stuck to that. We got written up for protecting patient confidentiality. And when the Coalition found that report they thought they had hit a gold mine but they took what was on there, misconstrued it and made it look like we had failed it.

And when the interviewer specifically asks about the protests 40 Days for Life organizes (you know the one that occurred immediately before Ms. Johnson experienced her "spiritual conversion"), Ms. Johnson makes no bones about her frustration:
It is a protest where they stand outside of our facility for 12 hours a day, during business hours. We call it 40 days of harrassment. They stand outside and harrass our patients.
Ms. Johnson goes onto explain how the coalition offers inaccurate information and harrasses women who are coming in for pap smears, breast exams or birth control and try to convince them to go to providers who are either extremely expensive or don't provide the services these women are seeking.
Johnson: So it's confusing to our patients and we actually have had some patients that have talked to members of the Coaliton protesting and have been convinced and every single time they come back to us. So, the information they are giving is inaccurate.

Perhaps what is most disturbing about Ms. Johnson's claims that she is now "pure of heart" is her decision to sweep the violence and harrassment she and her own family - including her daughter and her husband - as well as her former employees have been experiencing at the hands of the very same folks she is now choosing to align herself with in the name of religion and purity:
Interviewer: Have you ever been targeted? I've seen how aggressive these protestors can be -
Johnson: Sure. Back about a year and a half ago, I was receiving death threats that were targeted at me and my husband and my daughter. The rest of the staff - they received harrassing things in the mail. Things that will go to them and the rest of the neighborhood announcing that they are an abortionist. And all these gruesome things that they do not participate in. Things they put out there for shock value. And send out to neighborhood. They - some of our staff members have had pickets at their homes. You wake up in morning, have coffee and there are people protesting outside at their home. Some of us have been followed different places in oru cars. We go to the mall and we notice there are people following us. It's very serious. This group of people that claim to be "peaceful prayer warriors" or whatever they call themselves. It's kind of ironic that some of them would be sending death threats and that they would be harrassing and stalking some of our staff.
Somehow in the span of a few weeks (a few days? An hour? A moment?),
Ms. Johnson's fear of those who rely on violence and intimidation has
simply dissipated.
When the conversation turns to Dr. Tiller's murder in May 2009, Abby Johnson makes it clear that her belief is that Scott Roeder, the accused killer, had clear ties to the anti-choice community; the same community with which she is now intimately a part of:
Interviewer: Did Scott Roeder, the accused killer of Dr. Tiller, make any death threats?
Johson: I'm not sure about death threats.
Interviewer: He was active in the community,
Johnson: He was active in the anti-choice community, active with Operation Rescue. He did make some covert threats which are some of the things that we receive. But it [the threats] doesn't seem menacing until something like that happens. And then you think, 'Oh maybe we do need to be a little more cautious, a little more worried. I think it really hits home for our families and you know. I remember the day we found out George [Dr. Tiller] had been murdered my husband was like, please don't leave the house. because it's very real. The risk is very real.'
...Now we've seen increasing numbers of clinic violence and vandalism and hate mail. We receive hate mail at the clinic all the time. Religious sorts of mailings that come to us - fire and brimestone - that comes to us all the time.
Does something feel absolutely wrong here? How is is that Ms. Johnson can now turn to those whom she's feared, been the target of just weeks prior and now stand side-by-side? And, according to Ms. Johnson, just days before her religious awakening, none of what 40 Days for Life or the Coalition for Life does makes any difference whatsoever. So, what exactly does she think she's doing? Is it religious fervor that has overtaken her causing her to take leave of her senses such that she is willing to either forget that these anti-choice advocates have harrassed her very own family and staff or to just simply not care?
Interviewer: We talked about 40 days for life earlier and the protest in front of the clinic and we should note they stay out their for 24 hrs day supposedly. and they have a new building basically right next door, down the street from you all (PP). How do you think that is going to affect you all? Now it's going to be easier for them to do this sidewalk counseling, is what they have said.
Johnson: I think they think it's going to be fantastic. I don't think it's going to make any difference at all. I think that when people come to PP they know they are coming to a trusted health care provider and then they have these people standing out there on sidewalk screaming at them. Patients are confused thinking why are people screaming at me from the sidewalk? They just don't understand. They just want to come in, go to their appointment, get taken care of and leave. I think their belief is that they are going to talk to all these people who are pregnant and are "abortion minded" walk them over to their little house (we call it the guilt house) and change their mind. We haven't seen it happen once. Um, our patients, generally are annoyed that someone is out there trying to change their mind on what they shourl or shouldn't be doing - give them grief on their choices and now they are providing pregnancy tests over there. They aren't a medical facility so they can't get medical grade pregnancy tests - so basically dollar store pregnancy tests. So, the majority of our business is not pregnancy tests so I'm not sure what kind of business they think they'd be taking from us. They've been down the road from us for ten years and our numbers continue to increase every years so I'm not sure what they think they're going to do.

She clearly states that none of what Coalition for Life or 40 Days for Life does helps women in any shape or form.
Ah, but the final dig, as the interview wraps, is reserved for Fox News. Yes, the very network on which Ms. Johnson will appear this Friday. The station on which Abby Johnson was interviewed was running a pledge drive when the interview was being conducted and so Ms. Johnson is asked why people should donate to KEOS.
Johnson: People should donate. Because if you believe in getting accurate information and not information from FOX News, then you should donate...
Abby Johnson may have honestly experienced what feels to her like a thunderous religious conviction, rattling her to the bones. But from this interview, conducted possibly days before, there are far too many holes in this story to let it be. Clinic staff workers at this Planned Parenthood likely feel no more safe today, no more protected from the death threats, no less harrassed by those who Johnson herself claims do nothing to help the women of their community but with whom she has now aligned herself, though probably much more firm in their own conviction that providing health care services to women who need them is an honorable, noble and necessary cause.

reply from: Elessar

LOL, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. You have no proof. Oh, and the links don't work.
You know what is funny? That you say I have no proof when there is plenty in the first few posts. Whats even funnier is that because of a couple corrupted links you think I won't find them again and repost them. Here is one to mull around. Apparently the http part of the link was not forum friendly. So you simply copy and paste the link to your browser and it will take you right there. Wait a whole minute and then insert foot into mouth I even posted some of the text from the interview for those who don't want to do their research like I did and listen to the show and hear her words for themselves. Would you like your humble pie with or without whipped cream? Now that's funny lol!
www.blogtalkradio.com/informationunderground/2009/09/20/information-underground--september-20-2009
Week in headlines. This week on Information Underground the studio guest will be Abby Johnson, the Health Center Director of the Planned Parenthood in Bryan-College Station. The topics of conversation will include the current state of reproductive rights both in the United States and in Texas, separating fact from fiction in reproductive health care and abortion, and the protest of reproductive health facilities including the 40 Days for Life protest by the Coalition for Life that is scheduled to begin on September 23rd.
At the time of the writing of this post, Planned Parenthood has not released any further information about why the restraining order is needed but, according to Planned Parenthood officials in Texas, they are working on a statement currently.
What might be the most shocking juxtaposition, however, is this interview aired on September 20, 2009, just weeks ago on KEOS, a small college radio station.
During the interview, Ms. Johnson not only makes clear that her Planned Parenthood center's abortion services make up only 3% of their services, which, according to Diane Quest, National Media Director for Planned Parenthood Federation of America, is about on par with the national numbers - "Planned Parenthood's focus is on prevention. Nationwide,
more than 90% of the health care Planned Parenthood affiliates provide is
preventive in nature, including wellness exams, breast and cervical cancer
screenings, contraception, and STD testing and treatment." She also says that the "entirely separate" 501(c)3 (nonprofit) corporation that funds their abortion services received a $30 million grant from a private anonymous donor recently to keep their abortion services running.
From the interview:
Interviewer: What percentage of your services are abortion?
Johnson: About 3%.
Interviewer: So, it's not really much.
Johnson: No.
Interviewer: So when people label you an
abortion facility are they being truthful when they are saying that?
Johnson: Well not unless you think 3% is an overwhelming amount I
guess, but no, we don't think so. We think 3% is a very small amount and
our - I guess our goal has always been that every pregnancy is intended
and wanted and um, when we see a dip in abortion numbers we consider that a
success.
When the interviewer asks her specifically about funding for PP's programs, here's what Abby Johnson says,
PP is a Medicaid provider. First off, PP is divided up into separate
corporations. So, there is a Planned Parenthood 501c3 non profit that is a family
planning corporation. Also, there is a PP surgical services corporation that is our abortion
and vasectomy services. They are totally separate corporations. The surgical services corporation,
regardless of what you might hear, receives no government funding - all private
donations. And then almost two years ago we received about 30 million
dollars in an anonymous donation from a foundation to help women receive abortion services where money was a barrier.
That sort of runs roughshod over her allegations made in the television interview that some unnamed higher-up at Planned Parenthood encouraged her to increase abortions for financial reasons, doesn't it?
But what's more fascinating is the myriad ways (and keep in mind this interview was done, seemingly, around the same exact time in which she has apparently had a conversion and is keeping it a secret from all except 40 Days for Life) in which she passionately discusses her deeply held belief that women need access to abortion services for their well-being and health:
Interviewer: Why did you become involved in reproductive health care?
Johson: It's important to me because i think it's a human rights issue. I had talked with some physicians who performed abortions pre-Roe v. Wade and listened to them talk about their horror stories of women who had to have illegal abortions and the way they would perform them and how they would have to watch women die from illegal procedures and that really hit home for me as a woman and as a mother. I don't ever want to go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended or unwanted pregnancy. So, it was very personal for me.
Where did Ms. Johnson's concerns for women's health and lives, her plea for things never to "go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended...pregnancy" go? Where do these fears live now, Ms. Johnson?
Perhaps the most damning and confusing parts of the interview, however, are related to the lengthy conversation about 40 Days for Life, Coalition for Life, their protests and anti-choice violence as of late.
When the interviewer asks her about all of the protests that her center has had to endure as well as the overall effect of anti-choice campaigning against them including a claim by Coalition for Life that her PP had failed a health inspection, Ms. Johnson responds by calling the Coalition for Life liars, essentially, and denigrates them,
The Coalition (for Life) made claims that we didn't sterilize instruments - that was absolutely not true. The only thing that had anything to do with patient care - right now we're on electronic records but back in 2006 we still had charts. The Texas Department of Health wanted to take a significant number of charts outside the clinic and we didn't allow it and they wrote it up as a deficiency. They said because they are the state they can take out whatever records they want and we argued that we promise our patients we won't allow their records to be removed and we stuck to that. We got written up for protecting patient confidentiality. And when the Coalition found that report they thought they had hit a gold mine but they took what was on there, misconstrued it and made it look like we had failed it.
And when the interviewer specifically asks about the protests 40 Days for Life organizes (you know the one that occurred immediately before Ms. Johnson experienced her "spiritual conversion"), Ms. Johnson makes no bones about her frustration:
It is a protest where they stand outside of our facility for 12 hours a day, during business hours. We call it 40 days of harrassment. They stand outside and harrass our patients.
Ms. Johnson goes onto explain how the coalition offers inaccurate information and harrasses women who are coming in for pap smears, breast exams or birth control and try to convince them to go to providers who are either extremely expensive or don't provide the services these women are seeking.
Johnson: So it's confusing to our patients and we actually have had some patients that have talked to members of the Coaliton protesting and have been convinced and every single time they come back to us. So, the information they are giving is inaccurate.
Perhaps what is most disturbing about Ms. Johnson's claims that she is now "pure of heart" is her decision to sweep the violence and harrassment she and her own family - including her daughter and her husband - as well as her former employees have been experiencing at the hands of the very same folks she is now choosing to align herself with in the name of religion and purity:
Interviewer: Have you ever been targeted? I've seen how aggressive these protestors can be -
Johnson: Sure. Back about a year and a half ago, I was receiving death threats that were targeted at me and my husband and my daughter. The rest of the staff - they received harrassing things in the mail. Things that will go to them and the rest of the neighborhood announcing that they are an abortionist. And all these gruesome things that they do not participate in. Things they put out there for shock value. And send out to neighborhood. They - some of our staff members have had pickets at their homes. You wake up in morning, have coffee and there are people protesting outside at their home. Some of us have been followed different places in oru cars. We go to the mall and we notice there are people following us. It's very serious. This group of people that claim to be "peaceful prayer warriors" or whatever they call themselves. It's kind of ironic that some of them would be sending death threats and that they would be harrassing and stalking some of our staff.
Somehow in the span of a few weeks (a few days? An hour? A moment?),
Ms. Johnson's fear of those who rely on violence and intimidation has
simply dissipated.
When the conversation turns to Dr. Tiller's murder in May 2009, Abby Johnson makes it clear that her belief is that Scott Roeder, the accused killer, had clear ties to the anti-choice community; the same community with which she is now intimately a part of:
Interviewer: Did Scott Roeder, the accused killer of Dr. Tiller, make any death threats?
Johson: I'm not sure about death threats.
Interviewer: He was active in the community,
Johnson: He was active in the anti-choice community, active with Operation Rescue. He did make some covert threats which are some of the things that we receive. But it [the threats] doesn't seem menacing until something like that happens. And then you think, 'Oh maybe we do need to be a little more cautious, a little more worried. I think it really hits home for our families and you know. I remember the day we found out George [Dr. Tiller] had been murdered my husband was like, please don't leave the house. because it's very real. The risk is very real.'
...Now we've seen increasing numbers of clinic violence and vandalism and hate mail. We receive hate mail at the clinic all the time. Religious sorts of mailings that come to us - fire and brimestone - that comes to us all the time.
Does something feel absolutely wrong here? How is is that Ms. Johnson can now turn to those whom she's feared, been the target of just weeks prior and now stand side-by-side? And, according to Ms. Johnson, just days before her religious awakening, none of what 40 Days for Life or the Coalition for Life does makes any difference whatsoever. So, what exactly does she think she's doing? Is it religious fervor that has overtaken her causing her to take leave of her senses such that she is willing to either forget that these anti-choice advocates have harrassed her very own family and staff or to just simply not care?
Interviewer: We talked about 40 days for life earlier and the protest in front of the clinic and we should note they stay out their for 24 hrs day supposedly. and they have a new building basically right next door, down the street from you all (PP). How do you think that is going to affect you all? Now it's going to be easier for them to do this sidewalk counseling, is what they have said.
Johnson: I think they think it's going to be fantastic. I don't think it's going to make any difference at all. I think that when people come to PP they know they are coming to a trusted health care provider and then they have these people standing out there on sidewalk screaming at them. Patients are confused thinking why are people screaming at me from the sidewalk? They just don't understand. They just want to come in, go to their appointment, get taken care of and leave. I think their belief is that they are going to talk to all these people who are pregnant and are "abortion minded" walk them over to their little house (we call it the guilt house) and change their mind. We haven't seen it happen once. Um, our patients, generally are annoyed that someone is out there trying to change their mind on what they shourl or shouldn't be doing - give them grief on their choices and now they are providing pregnancy tests over there. They aren't a medical facility so they can't get medical grade pregnancy tests - so basically dollar store pregnancy tests. So, the majority of our business is not pregnancy tests so I'm not sure what kind of business they think they'd be taking from us. They've been down the road from us for ten years and our numbers continue to increase every years so I'm not sure what they think they're going to do.
She clearly states that none of what Coalition for Life or 40 Days for Life does helps women in any shape or form.
Ah, but the final dig, as the interview wraps, is reserved for Fox News. Yes, the very network on which Ms. Johnson will appear this Friday. The station on which Abby Johnson was interviewed was running a pledge drive when the interview was being conducted and so Ms. Johnson is asked why people should donate to KEOS.
Johnson: People should donate. Because if you believe in getting accurate information and not information from FOX News, then you should donate...
Abby Johnson may have honestly experienced what feels to her like a thunderous religious conviction, rattling her to the bones. But from this interview, conducted possibly days before, there are far too many holes in this story to let it be. Clinic staff workers at this Planned Parenthood likely feel no more safe today, no more protected from the death threats, no less harrassed by those who Johnson herself claims do nothing to help the women of their community but with whom she has now aligned herself, though probably much more firm in their own conviction that providing health care services to women who need them is an honorable, noble and necessary cause.
Answers to these charges and theories can be found in Abby's book.
http://rightsoftheunborn.blogspot.com/2010/10/unplanned-by-abby-johnson-new-book.html

reply from: nancyu

If Abby's so honest and upfront, why'd she delete all of her posts?

reply from: Ironfist

LOL, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. You have no proof. Oh, and the links don't work.
You know what is funny? That you say I have no proof when there is plenty in the first few posts. Whats even funnier is that because of a couple corrupted links you think I won't find them again and repost them. Here is one to mull around. Apparently the http part of the link was not forum friendly. So you simply copy and paste the link to your browser and it will take you right there. Wait a whole minute and then insert foot into mouth [IMG][/IMG] I even posted some of the text from the interview for those who don't want to do their research like I did and listen to the show and hear her words for themselves. Would you like your humble pie with or without whipped cream? Now that's funny lol!
www.blogtalkradio.com/informationunderground/2009/09/20/information-underground--september-20-2009
Week in headlines. This week on Information Underground the studio guest will be Abby Johnson, the Health Center Director of the Planned Parenthood in Bryan-College Station. The topics of conversation will include the current state of reproductive rights both in the United States and in Texas, separating fact from fiction in reproductive health care and abortion, and the protest of reproductive health facilities including the 40 Days for Life protest by the Coalition for Life that is scheduled to begin on September 23rd.
At the time of the writing of this post, Planned Parenthood has not released any further information about why the restraining order is needed but, according to Planned Parenthood officials in Texas, they are working on a statement currently.
What might be the most shocking juxtaposition, however, is this interview aired on September 20, 2009, just weeks ago on KEOS, a small college radio station.
During the interview, Ms. Johnson not only makes clear that her Planned Parenthood center's abortion services make up only 3% of their services, which, according to Diane Quest, National Media Director for Planned Parenthood Federation of America, is about on par with the national numbers - "Planned Parenthood's focus is on prevention. Nationwide,
more than 90% of the health care Planned Parenthood affiliates provide is
preventive in nature, including wellness exams, breast and cervical cancer
screenings, contraception, and STD testing and treatment." She also says that the "entirely separate" 501(c)3 (nonprofit) corporation that funds their abortion services received a $30 million grant from a private anonymous donor recently to keep their abortion services running.
From the interview:
Interviewer: What percentage of your services are abortion?
Johnson: About 3%.
Interviewer: So, it's not really much.
Johnson: No.
Interviewer: So when people label you an
abortion facility are they being truthful when they are saying that?
Johnson: Well not unless you think 3% is an overwhelming amount I
guess, but no, we don't think so. We think 3% is a very small amount and
our - I guess our goal has always been that every pregnancy is intended
and wanted and um, when we see a dip in abortion numbers we consider that a
success.
When the interviewer asks her specifically about funding for PP's programs, here's what Abby Johnson says,
PP is a Medicaid provider. First off, PP is divided up into separate
corporations. So, there is a Planned Parenthood 501c3 non profit that is a family
planning corporation. Also, there is a PP surgical services corporation that is our abortion
and vasectomy services. They are totally separate corporations. The surgical services corporation,
regardless of what you might hear, receives no government funding - all private
donations. And then almost two years ago we received about 30 million
dollars in an anonymous donation from a foundation to help women receive abortion services where money was a barrier.
That sort of runs roughshod over her allegations made in the television interview that some unnamed higher-up at Planned Parenthood encouraged her to increase abortions for financial reasons, doesn't it?
But what's more fascinating is the myriad ways (and keep in mind this interview was done, seemingly, around the same exact time in which she has apparently had a conversion and is keeping it a secret from all except 40 Days for Life) in which she passionately discusses her deeply held belief that women need access to abortion services for their well-being and health:
Interviewer: Why did you become involved in reproductive health care?
Johson: It's important to me because i think it's a human rights issue. I had talked with some physicians who performed abortions pre-Roe v. Wade and listened to them talk about their horror stories of women who had to have illegal abortions and the way they would perform them and how they would have to watch women die from illegal procedures and that really hit home for me as a woman and as a mother. I don't ever want to go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended or unwanted pregnancy. So, it was very personal for me.
Where did Ms. Johnson's concerns for women's health and lives, her plea for things never to "go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended...pregnancy" go? Where do these fears live now, Ms. Johnson?
Perhaps the most damning and confusing parts of the interview, however, are related to the lengthy conversation about 40 Days for Life, Coalition for Life, their protests and anti-choice violence as of late.
When the interviewer asks her about all of the protests that her center has had to endure as well as the overall effect of anti-choice campaigning against them including a claim by Coalition for Life that her PP had failed a health inspection, Ms. Johnson responds by calling the Coalition for Life liars, essentially, and denigrates them,
The Coalition (for Life) made claims that we didn't sterilize instruments - that was absolutely not true. The only thing that had anything to do with patient care - right now we're on electronic records but back in 2006 we still had charts. The Texas Department of Health wanted to take a significant number of charts outside the clinic and we didn't allow it and they wrote it up as a deficiency. They said because they are the state they can take out whatever records they want and we argued that we promise our patients we won't allow their records to be removed and we stuck to that. We got written up for protecting patient confidentiality. And when the Coalition found that report they thought they had hit a gold mine but they took what was on there, misconstrued it and made it look like we had failed it.
And when the interviewer specifically asks about the protests 40 Days for Life organizes (you know the one that occurred immediately before Ms. Johnson experienced her "spiritual conversion"), Ms. Johnson makes no bones about her frustration:
It is a protest where they stand outside of our facility for 12 hours a day, during business hours. We call it 40 days of harrassment. They stand outside and harrass our patients.
Ms. Johnson goes onto explain how the coalition offers inaccurate information and harrasses women who are coming in for pap smears, breast exams or birth control and try to convince them to go to providers who are either extremely expensive or don't provide the services these women are seeking.
Johnson: So it's confusing to our patients and we actually have had some patients that have talked to members of the Coaliton protesting and have been convinced and every single time they come back to us. So, the information they are giving is inaccurate.
Perhaps what is most disturbing about Ms. Johnson's claims that she is now "pure of heart" is her decision to sweep the violence and harrassment she and her own family - including her daughter and her husband - as well as her former employees have been experiencing at the hands of the very same folks she is now choosing to align herself with in the name of religion and purity:
Interviewer: Have you ever been targeted? I've seen how aggressive these protestors can be -
Johnson: Sure. Back about a year and a half ago, I was receiving death threats that were targeted at me and my husband and my daughter. The rest of the staff - they received harrassing things in the mail. Things that will go to them and the rest of the neighborhood announcing that they are an abortionist. And all these gruesome things that they do not participate in. Things they put out there for shock value. And send out to neighborhood. They - some of our staff members have had pickets at their homes. You wake up in morning, have coffee and there are people protesting outside at their home. Some of us have been followed different places in oru cars. We go to the mall and we notice there are people following us. It's very serious. This group of people that claim to be "peaceful prayer warriors" or whatever they call themselves. It's kind of ironic that some of them would be sending death threats and that they would be harrassing and stalking some of our staff.
Somehow in the span of a few weeks (a few days? An hour? A moment?),
Ms. Johnson's fear of those who rely on violence and intimidation has
simply dissipated.
When the conversation turns to Dr. Tiller's murder in May 2009, Abby Johnson makes it clear that her belief is that Scott Roeder, the accused killer, had clear ties to the anti-choice community; the same community with which she is now intimately a part of:
Interviewer: Did Scott Roeder, the accused killer of Dr. Tiller, make any death threats?
Johson: I'm not sure about death threats.
Interviewer: He was active in the community,
Johnson: He was active in the anti-choice community, active with Operation Rescue. He did make some covert threats which are some of the things that we receive. But it [the threats] doesn't seem menacing until something like that happens. And then you think, 'Oh maybe we do need to be a little more cautious, a little more worried. I think it really hits home for our families and you know. I remember the day we found out George [Dr. Tiller] had been murdered my husband was like, please don't leave the house. because it's very real. The risk is very real.'
...Now we've seen increasing numbers of clinic violence and vandalism and hate mail. We receive hate mail at the clinic all the time. Religious sorts of mailings that come to us - fire and brimestone - that comes to us all the time.
Does something feel absolutely wrong here? How is is that Ms. Johnson can now turn to those whom she's feared, been the target of just weeks prior and now stand side-by-side? And, according to Ms. Johnson, just days before her religious awakening, none of what 40 Days for Life or the Coalition for Life does makes any difference whatsoever. So, what exactly does she think she's doing? Is it religious fervor that has overtaken her causing her to take leave of her senses such that she is willing to either forget that these anti-choice advocates have harrassed her very own family and staff or to just simply not care?
Interviewer: We talked about 40 days for life earlier and the protest in front of the clinic and we should note they stay out their for 24 hrs day supposedly. and they have a new building basically right next door, down the street from you all (PP). How do you think that is going to affect you all? Now it's going to be easier for them to do this sidewalk counseling, is what they have said.
Johnson: I think they think it's going to be fantastic. I don't think it's going to make any difference at all. I think that when people come to PP they know they are coming to a trusted health care provider and then they have these people standing out there on sidewalk screaming at them. Patients are confused thinking why are people screaming at me from the sidewalk? They just don't understand. They just want to come in, go to their appointment, get taken care of and leave. I think their belief is that they are going to talk to all these people who are pregnant and are "abortion minded" walk them over to their little house (we call it the guilt house) and change their mind. We haven't seen it happen once. Um, our patients, generally are annoyed that someone is out there trying to change their mind on what they shourl or shouldn't be doing - give them grief on their choices and now they are providing pregnancy tests over there. They aren't a medical facility so they can't get medical grade pregnancy tests - so basically dollar store pregnancy tests. So, the majority of our business is not pregnancy tests so I'm not sure what kind of business they think they'd be taking from us. They've been down the road from us for ten years and our numbers continue to increase every years so I'm not sure what they think they're going to do.
She clearly states that none of what Coalition for Life or 40 Days for Life does helps women in any shape or form.
Ah, but the final dig, as the interview wraps, is reserved for Fox News. Yes, the very network on which Ms. Johnson will appear this Friday. The station on which Abby Johnson was interviewed was running a pledge drive when the interview was being conducted and so Ms. Johnson is asked why people should donate to KEOS.
Johnson: People should donate. Because if you believe in getting accurate information and not information from FOX News, then you should donate...
Abby Johnson may have honestly experienced what feels to her like a thunderous religious conviction, rattling her to the bones. But from this interview, conducted possibly days before, there are far too many holes in this story to let it be. Clinic staff workers at this Planned Parenthood likely feel no more safe today, no more protected from the death threats, no less harrassed by those who Johnson herself claims do nothing to help the women of their community but with whom she has now aligned herself, though probably much more firm in their own conviction that providing health care services to women who need them is an honorable, noble and necessary cause.
Answers to these charges and theories can be found in Abby's book.
http://rightsoftheunborn.blogspot.com/2010/10/unplanned-by-abby-johnson-new-book.html
Why would I ever put money in the pocket of someone selling books on lies based on abortions? Why would someone need to buy a book to get some simple questions answered. I guess I never had to write a book to explain myself. We can see, Abby, that the you delete all your posts about this and become rude as can be when confronted with questions to your sincerity. But hey, so many have obviously bought and read your book of lies why not let someone put your answers to the questions posed that are "answered in the book" on here.

reply from: Elessar

Abby Johnson has shown in her witness in her book and in her public speaking, to be a true pro-life advocate and friend. What lies would people believe that she has told? Did she not leave Planned Parenthood? Did they not try and fail to silence her in court? Has she not spoken consistently on behalf of the unborn? Did she not go to Coalition for Life and have they not supported her and her pro-life witness since day 1? What lies has she told in her pro-life witness since leaving Planned Parenthood? None.

reply from: SticksAndStones

I'm new here so excuse me if I'm being naive but I'm wondering, can this Abby Johnson person be made use of for the pro-life effort? Or is it more important to hold her accountable than it is to use her? Can we or should we hold our noses long enough to get some shocking truths out there concerning planned parenthood and abortion in general?

reply from: Elessar

Hold her accountable for what? Use people? That would be no better than what the abortionists do. Abby Johnson is pro-life. I for one accept that. Why won't others? Again I ask, What lies would people believe that Abby Johnson has told? Did she not leave Planned Parenthood? Did Planned Parenthood not try and fail to silence her in court? Has she not spoken consistently on behalf of the unborn since openly rejecting Planned Parenthood and abortion? Did she not go to Coalition for Life and have they not supported her and her pro-life witness since day 1? What lies has she told in her pro-life witness since leaving Planned Parenthood? I know of none.

reply from: Elessar

Is she obligated to leave her posts here? Are any of us?

reply from: SticksAndStones

I guess we can never know what's truly in the hearts of others. I'm sorry but all your questions seem to have been addressed by the original post and some posts that followed.
Apparently, people don't believe her sincerity, they don't trust her motives, they disapprove of her past transgressions and they don't want to be hypocritical by using her to advance the pro-life cause.
I've read elsewhere that she's making money from her book in which she documents her (for profit) activities in the abortion business and people resent the fact that she's still, in a way, making money off of her facilitation of past abortions. Is she keeping all that money or is she donating it charity? That would speak to her true motivation. Does anyone here know what she's doing with the profits from her book sales?
Plus, a quick Google search reveals that she has been on The Factor with Bill O'Reilly and other shows and has become a celebrity of sorts. What is the basis for her new found celebrity? Would she be a celebrity now if she hadn't been employed by the abortion industry? Has she sinned her way to the top? Some here and elsewhere seem to think so.

reply from: faithman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfwvSbOtzLo

reply from: Elessar

I guess we can never know what's truly in the hearts of others. I'm sorry but all your questions seem to have been addressed by the original post and some posts that followed.
Apparently, people don't believe her sincerity, they don't trust her motives, they disapprove of her past transgressions and they don't want to be hypocritical by using her to advance the pro-life cause.
I've read elsewhere that she's making money from her book in which she documents her (for profit) activities in the abortion business and people resent the fact that she's still, in a way, making money off of her facilitation of past abortions. Is she keeping all that money or is she donating it charity? That would speak to her true motivation. Does anyone here know what she's doing with the profits from her book sales?
Plus, a quick Google search reveals that she has been on The Factor with Bill O'Reilly and other shows and has become a celebrity of sorts. What is the basis for her new found celebrity? Would she be a celebrity now if she hadn't been employed by the abortion industry? Has she sinned her way to the top? Some here and elsewhere seem to think so.
Isn't that what we want? For every abortion advocate to become a pro-life celebrity? Is not conversion what we who are pro-life desire? Don't we want to see every person who supports abortion turn sides and speak for the unborn? Or would we prefer the Orwellian war of 1984 that never ends? Is our conviction resolved in hope for authentic conversion, or are we about fulfilling an all consuming hate for an ever evolving nameless enemy for whom there is no redemption against we have no hope of victory? I have been following Abby Johnson's story from day one of it reaching the media. I now have the honor of calling her my friend. Heaven rejoices at her conversion to the pro-life community and I rejoice at her coming home to the Catholic faith in Jesus Christ. She is a brave soul who has been verbally assailed from extremists on both sides of the issue and I continue to support her in her middle of the road, rational, peaceful and most importantly faith oriented message of life. While her "success" does provide her some means to continue a full time pro-life advocacy which involves much travel, such a public stand hardly makes her a celebrity, for any pro-lifer who has spent any time associated with this movement in any capacity to suggest that she went pro-life for the money is ridiculous. Much money has changed hands among people in the pro-life community but as for myself I have made none. Neither has my work involved the public criticism and scrutiny that Abby's has. I assure people that Abby's witness is authentic. But I defer to Christ in these matters who said:
"For the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the market place; and to them he said,
You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.' So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing; and he said to them,
Why do you stand here idle all day?' They said to him,
Because no one has hired us.' He said to them,
You go into the vineyard too.' And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward,
Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.' And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. And on receiving it they grumbled at the householder, saying,
These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.' But he replied to one of them,
Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you. Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?' So the last will be first, and the first last." -Matthew 20:1-16

reply from: SticksAndStones

Yes, absolutely.
Your faith in human nature greatly exceeds mine and perhaps that makes you a better person than I, but I still contend that no mortal can really know what's in the heart of another. People can be ├╝ber-sneaky. So it just comes down to whether you believe her or not. I genuinely hope that she is being sincere and has seen the light. I would also grant that even a phony conversion could prove useful if placed in the right hands. Like those of representative Geanie Morrison in this Abby Johnson video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6UDi9CV9nU
Nonetheless, I will never personally send one red cent her way no matter how many books she writes or videos she makes.
I am still wondering if she's keeping the profits from her book sales or if she's donating them to a charity? That, at least in my mind, would indicate true contrition. After all Augustine, actions do speak louder than words.
Can/will you ask her about this or would that be out of line?

reply from: faithman

Johnson is a phony, admits to breaking the law, and should be prosicuted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfwvSbOtzLo

reply from: AshMarie88

Faithman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLXrepMCPLY

reply from: Elessar

Juda Myers who made and posted this video on YouTube is an anti-Catholic bigot.

reply from: AshMarie88

Juda Myers who made and posted this video on YouTube is an anti-Catholic bigot.
But the video opens your eyes. This man said pregnant women who have been raped or pregnant women carrying sick babies shouldn't be forced to view the ultrasound... Does that mean all the other women should be "forced" to view the ultrasound? In his eyes, rape victims shouldn't be forced, but if it's a regular woman, she has to see it. What the heck???

reply from: nancyu

Juda Myers who made and posted this video on YouTube is an anti-Catholic bigot.
What an absolute lie from an absolute pig of a liar. All you do is go around slandering people who don't agree with you.

reply from: Elessar

Juda Myers who made and posted this video on YouTube is an anti-Catholic bigot.
What an absolute lie from an absolute pig of a liar. All you do is go around slandering people who don't agree with you.
"My only concern is that the rosary hails Mary more than Jesus. Jesus didn't acknowledge her when she and his brothers came where He was." -Juda Myers
http://lasalettejourney.blogspot.com/2010/07/more-commentary-on-catholic-church-from.html
Juda Myers writes: "I am sorry that you have been deceived to think that the CATHOLIC church killing, stealing, overpowering, ostentatious, and filled with the greed for supremacy has any resemblance of Jesus our humble Savior who DIED for His followers."
http://lasalettejourney.blogspot.com/2010/07/juda-myers-hatred-for-catholic-church.html

reply from: Juda

You might want to quote correctly.
Any church that does that isn't of Christ. The person who wrote those things is like you, no resemblance of Christ who loved the church to die for her.
Those who are His can be found in almost all Christian denominations. There are also many who call themselves of Christ who know nothing of Him.
I was raised Catholic to know Christ. I was saved by a Catholic priest when my grandmother wanted my birth mom to abort me. I disagree with some of the doctrines but to save that I hate the Catholic church is a lie from the pits of HELL. There are many many precious people whom I love dearly in the Catholic including priests!There are Catholics I would die for because they are fully acting in love as Christ.
Those true Catholics who love Jesus know that quite well. It is Christ that proves who is His. No title or self proclaimed elevation will establish anyone.
The hatred coming from you proves who you serve.
Did you come to me to seek truth as Matthew 18 states? NO. You are not of the Catholic Church nor any other Christ centered church. Christ is far from you. You only seek to be a false witness.
I pray that your mouth be silenced and truth be the guard.
I forgive you and pray that Christ show you the better way.
We do not fight against flesh and blood but against principalities in the heavenlies.
That video of Abby was real. Her words are what offended so many people.
She has stated she was wrong in saying "not to get in a tizzy over this rape issue". She states on her website that she will no longer support bills that have exceptions. So something was accomplished by that video being shown.
God bless you in all you do to advance HIS kingdom.

reply from: Elessar

Save it for your Joyce Meyers style cult following lady. You're no Catholic.

reply from: B0zo

Wow, with all the hateful responses to that video from pro-lifers, who needs pro-choicers to come down on her?
Now she's a "criminal" too?
Envy is an ugly thing to see, especially from prolifers and Christians.

reply from: faithman

It is a fact, clown, that she openly admits to breaking the law. I believe the story to be phony, and hse can either state such, or face prosecution for her admitted crimes. That is not envy, those are simple facts.
So you are willing to sacrifice rape babies, and ignore women being used for sex, just so you can worship a phony hero?.
Some how that does not suprize me at all.

reply from: faithman

Juda Myers who made and posted this video on YouTube is an anti-Catholic bigot.
But the video opens your eyes. This man said pregnant women who have been raped or pregnant women carrying sick babies shouldn't be forced to view the ultrasound... Does that mean all the other women should be "forced" to view the ultrasound? In his eyes, rape victims shouldn't be forced, but if it's a regular woman, she has to see it. What the heck???
It is a phony law, promoted by phonies. It will not save one child from abortion, and is a major hinderence and a step backwards to brining an end to the slaughter.
The one thing it does, is prove Johnson is a phony, and willing to kill babies to serve her own purpose.
She is still making money off of the blood of womb children.

reply from: nancyu

Is she obligated to leave her posts here? Are any of us?
Did I say she was obligated?
Nope.

reply from: nancyu

LOL, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. You have no proof. Oh, and the links don't work.
You know what is funny? That you say I have no proof when there is plenty in the first few posts. Whats even funnier is that because of a couple corrupted links you think I won't find them again and repost them. Here is one to mull around. Apparently the http part of the link was not forum friendly. So you simply copy and paste the link to your browser and it will take you right there. Wait a whole minute and then insert foot into mouth I even posted some of the text from the interview for those who don't want to do their research like I did and listen to the show and hear her words for themselves. Would you like your humble pie with or without whipped cream? Now that's funny lol!
www.blogtalkradio.com/informationunderground/2009/09/20/information-underground--september-20-2009
Week in headlines. This week on Information Underground the studio guest will be Abby Johnson, the Health Center Director of the Planned Parenthood in Bryan-College Station. The topics of conversation will include the current state of reproductive rights both in the United States and in Texas, separating fact from fiction in reproductive health care and abortion, and the protest of reproductive health facilities including the 40 Days for Life protest by the Coalition for Life that is scheduled to begin on September 23rd.
At the time of the writing of this post, Planned Parenthood has not released any further information about why the restraining order is needed but, according to Planned Parenthood officials in Texas, they are working on a statement currently.
What might be the most shocking juxtaposition, however, is this interview aired on September 20, 2009, just weeks ago on KEOS, a small college radio station.
During the interview, Ms. Johnson not only makes clear that her Planned Parenthood center's abortion services make up only 3% of their services, which, according to Diane Quest, National Media Director for Planned Parenthood Federation of America, is about on par with the national numbers - "Planned Parenthood's focus is on prevention. Nationwide,
more than 90% of the health care Planned Parenthood affiliates provide is
preventive in nature, including wellness exams, breast and cervical cancer
screenings, contraception, and STD testing and treatment." She also says that the "entirely separate" 501(c)3 (nonprofit) corporation that funds their abortion services received a $30 million grant from a private anonymous donor recently to keep their abortion services running.
From the interview:
Interviewer: What percentage of your services are abortion?
Johnson: About 3%.
Interviewer: So, it's not really much.
Johnson: No.
Interviewer: So when people label you an
abortion facility are they being truthful when they are saying that?
Johnson: Well not unless you think 3% is an overwhelming amount I
guess, but no, we don't think so. We think 3% is a very small amount and
our - I guess our goal has always been that every pregnancy is intended
and wanted and um, when we see a dip in abortion numbers we consider that a
success.
When the interviewer asks her specifically about funding for PP's programs, here's what Abby Johnson says,
PP is a Medicaid provider. First off, PP is divided up into separate
corporations. So, there is a Planned Parenthood 501c3 non profit that is a family
planning corporation. Also, there is a PP surgical services corporation that is our abortion
and vasectomy services. They are totally separate corporations. The surgical services corporation,
regardless of what you might hear, receives no government funding - all private
donations. And then almost two years ago we received about 30 million
dollars in an anonymous donation from a foundation to help women receive abortion services where money was a barrier.

That sort of runs roughshod over her allegations made in the television interview that some unnamed higher-up at Planned Parenthood encouraged her to increase abortions for financial reasons, doesn't it?
But what's more fascinating is the myriad ways (and keep in mind this interview was done, seemingly, around the same exact time in which she has apparently had a conversion and is keeping it a secret from all except 40 Days for Life) in which she passionately discusses her deeply held belief that women need access to abortion services for their well-being and health:
Interviewer: Why did you become involved in reproductive health care?
Johson: It's important to me because i think it's a human rights issue. I had talked with some physicians who performed abortions pre-Roe v. Wade and listened to them talk about their horror stories of women who had to have illegal abortions and the way they would perform them and how they would have to watch women die from illegal procedures and that really hit home for me as a woman and as a mother. I don't ever want to go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended or unwanted pregnancy. So, it was very personal for me.
Where did Ms. Johnson's concerns for women's health and lives, her plea for things never to "go back to the days where women have to take their own lives in their hands because of an unintended...pregnancy" go? Where do these fears live now, Ms. Johnson?
Perhaps the most damning and confusing parts of the interview, however, are related to the lengthy conversation about 40 Days for Life, Coalition for Life, their protests and anti-choice violence as of late.
When the interviewer asks her about all of the protests that her center has had to endure as well as the overall effect of anti-choice campaigning against them including a claim by Coalition for Life that her PP had failed a health inspection, Ms. Johnson responds by calling the Coalition for Life liars, essentially, and denigrates them,
The Coalition (for Life) made claims that we didn't sterilize instruments - that was absolutely not true. The only thing that had anything to do with patient care - right now we're on electronic records but back in 2006 we still had charts. The Texas Department of Health wanted to take a significant number of charts outside the clinic and we didn't allow it and they wrote it up as a deficiency. They said because they are the state they can take out whatever records they want and we argued that we promise our patients we won't allow their records to be removed and we stuck to that. We got written up for protecting patient confidentiality. And when the Coalition found that report they thought they had hit a gold mine but they took what was on there, misconstrued it and made it look like we had failed it.

And when the interviewer specifically asks about the protests 40 Days for Life organizes (you know the one that occurred immediately before Ms. Johnson experienced her "spiritual conversion"), Ms. Johnson makes no bones about her frustration:
It is a protest where they stand outside of our facility for 12 hours a day, during business hours. We call it 40 days of harrassment. They stand outside and harrass our patients.
Ms. Johnson goes onto explain how the coalition offers inaccurate information and harrasses women who are coming in for pap smears, breast exams or birth control and try to convince them to go to providers who are either extremely expensive or don't provide the services these women are seeking.
Johnson: So it's confusing to our patients and we actually have had some patients that have talked to members of the Coaliton protesting and have been convinced and every single time they come back to us. So, the information they are giving is inaccurate.

Perhaps what is most disturbing about Ms. Johnson's claims that she is now "pure of heart" is her decision to sweep the violence and harrassment she and her own family - including her daughter and her husband - as well as her former employees have been experiencing at the hands of the very same folks she is now choosing to align herself with in the name of religion and purity:
Interviewer: Have you ever been targeted? I've seen how aggressive these protestors can be -
Johnson: Sure. Back about a year and a half ago, I was receiving death threats that were targeted at me and my husband and my daughter. The rest of the staff - they received harrassing things in the mail. Things that will go to them and the rest of the neighborhood announcing that they are an abortionist. And all these gruesome things that they do not participate in. Things they put out there for shock value. And send out to neighborhood. They - some of our staff members have had pickets at their homes. You wake up in morning, have coffee and there are people protesting outside at their home. Some of us have been followed different places in oru cars. We go to the mall and we notice there are people following us. It's very serious. This group of people that claim to be "peaceful prayer warriors" or whatever they call themselves. It's kind of ironic that some of them would be sending death threats and that they would be harrassing and stalking some of our staff.
Somehow in the span of a few weeks (a few days? An hour? A moment?),
Ms. Johnson's fear of those who rely on violence and intimidation has
simply dissipated.
When the conversation turns to Dr. Tiller's murder in May 2009, Abby Johnson makes it clear that her belief is that Scott Roeder, the accused killer, had clear ties to the anti-choice community; the same community with which she is now intimately a part of:
Interviewer: Did Scott Roeder, the accused killer of Dr. Tiller, make any death threats?
Johson: I'm not sure about death threats.
Interviewer: He was active in the community,
Johnson: He was active in the anti-choice community, active with Operation Rescue. He did make some covert threats which are some of the things that we receive. But it [the threats] doesn't seem menacing until something like that happens. And then you think, 'Oh maybe we do need to be a little more cautious, a little more worried. I think it really hits home for our families and you know. I remember the day we found out George [Dr. Tiller] had been murdered my husband was like, please don't leave the house. because it's very real. The risk is very real.'
...Now we've seen increasing numbers of clinic violence and vandalism and hate mail. We receive hate mail at the clinic all the time. Religious sorts of mailings that come to us - fire and brimestone - that comes to us all the time.
Does something feel absolutely wrong here? How is is that Ms. Johnson can now turn to those whom she's feared, been the target of just weeks prior and now stand side-by-side? And, according to Ms. Johnson, just days before her religious awakening, none of what 40 Days for Life or the Coalition for Life does makes any difference whatsoever. So, what exactly does she think she's doing? Is it religious fervor that has overtaken her causing her to take leave of her senses such that she is willing to either forget that these anti-choice advocates have harrassed her very own family and staff or to just simply not care?
Interviewer: We talked about 40 days for life earlier and the protest in front of the clinic and we should note they stay out their for 24 hrs day supposedly. and they have a new building basically right next door, down the street from you all (PP). How do you think that is going to affect you all? Now it's going to be easier for them to do this sidewalk counseling, is what they have said.
Johnson: I think they think it's going to be fantastic. I don't think it's going to make any difference at all. I think that when people come to PP they know they are coming to a trusted health care provider and then they have these people standing out there on sidewalk screaming at them. Patients are confused thinking why are people screaming at me from the sidewalk? They just don't understand. They just want to come in, go to their appointment, get taken care of and leave. I think their belief is that they are going to talk to all these people who are pregnant and are "abortion minded" walk them over to their little house (we call it the guilt house) and change their mind. We haven't seen it happen once. Um, our patients, generally are annoyed that someone is out there trying to change their mind on what they shourl or shouldn't be doing - give them grief on their choices and now they are providing pregnancy tests over there. They aren't a medical facility so they can't get medical grade pregnancy tests - so basically dollar store pregnancy tests. So, the majority of our business is not pregnancy tests so I'm not sure what kind of business they think they'd be taking from us. They've been down the road from us for ten years and our numbers continue to increase every years so I'm not sure what they think they're going to do.

She clearly states that none of what Coalition for Life or 40 Days for Life does helps women in any shape or form.
Ah, but the final dig, as the interview wraps, is reserved for Fox News. Yes, the very network on which Ms. Johnson will appear this Friday. The station on which Abby Johnson was interviewed was running a pledge drive when the interview was being conducted and so Ms. Johnson is asked why people should donate to KEOS.
Johnson: People should donate. Because if you believe in getting accurate information and not information from FOX News, then you should donate...
Abby Johnson may have honestly experienced what feels to her like a thunderous religious conviction, rattling her to the bones. But from this interview, conducted possibly days before, there are far too many holes in this story to let it be. Clinic staff workers at this Planned Parenthood likely feel no more safe today, no more protected from the death threats, no less harrassed by those who Johnson herself claims do nothing to help the women of their community but with whom she has now aligned herself, though probably much more firm in their own conviction that providing health care services to women who need them is an honorable, noble and necessary cause.

reply from: B0zo

If she broke the law, then call the cops. That's your duty. And if you don't, then you've got no reason to keep griping about this.
If she saw that bill as one battle in a greater overall war or a step in the right direction, that's what counts.
I don't see her as a "hero"--just as someone who is actively pro-life, and it makes little sense to me to see other pro-lifers tearing her down.

reply from: studentforlife

I attended the Students for Life of America Conference in Virginia in January of this year. Abby Johnson was our headlining speaker. Her tears were not those of someone who is lying- they were those of someone who is remorseful, someone who is genuinely sad. Abortion in the United States is often smoothed over and people have become desensitized to it, but the power of the ultrasound has brought abortion to its knees, painting the real picture of what it actually is. Even Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the founder of NARAL, who performed thousands of abortions throughout his career, was moved by what he saw using an ultrasound. After the invention of this remarkable device, Nathanson quit performing abortions, and became a pro-life activist.
Notice that you see a lot of pro-choicers converting to pro-lifers, but very few pro-lifers becoming pro-choice? There's a reason for that, and that reason is truth.

reply from: faithman

Abby Johnson is a phony, and a quick study. Her "tears" are a recent event.
What about the 11 year old girl she claimed to have illegally signed off on an abortion? She deserves no justice, and rescue?
What about the sex slaves Johnson claims to have serviced for master pimps? they deserve no justice and rescue?
If this pro-choice wolf in pro-life wool were truly serious, would she have already turned herself in, and given information to the authorities to rescue these girls from their abusive situations?
Abby Johnson commmitted a crime against these women, and further exploited them for book sales, insted of doing all she could to see them rescued.
Oh yeah your hero is SSSSSOOOOOOOOO real, huh?

reply from: SticksAndStones

You know.. I have a real problem with this notion that ultrasound is somehow creating converts. How in the #^$* can an abortion doctor be moved by some blurry pictures and not moved at all by the thousands of tiny body parts he's been busy tearing out of hundreds wombs? That sounds patently stupid to me. I call bull$hit on that. I call bull$hit on Abby Johnson and her Crocodile tears. She's not fooling me. There's something seriously wrong that person.

reply from: Tam

No way, dude. There is a HUGE difference.
A pile of bloody deadness is very different. You can look away from that, probably you have to unless you have a very strong stomach.
The child in the womb is ALIVE. Watching someone get murdered in cold blood is VERY different from seeing some body parts.
It's like saying, "How can that bomber have become anti-war only when seeing a bomb blow up a child? He knew all along that he was dropping bombs on people, and he knew he was killing them. What's so different?"
The difference is, in one case you are watching yourself commit murder. You may have been able to insulate yourself up until that point, but I can totally see why that would be a defining moment in the life of any person with a shred of conscience.
I am not commenting on Abby particularly, just on your argument in general.

reply from: Elessar

You know.. I have a real problem with this notion that ultrasound is somehow creating converts. How in the #^$* can an abortion doctor be moved by some blurry pictures and not moved at all by the thousands of tiny body parts he's been busy tearing out of hundreds wombs? That sounds patently stupid to me. I call bull$hit on that. I call bull$hit on Abby Johnson and her Crocodile tears. She's not fooling me. There's something seriously wrong that person.
Abby Johnson was not an abortionist and you know this. Every Charles, Ed and Harry loosely affiliated with the abortion/life discussion knows this. Abby didn't see what comes out from the abortion. In fact, the abortionist doesn't necessarily see what comes out after an abortion either. The unborn life is sucked out into a machine. The abortionist, in this type of abortion, watches an image on an ultra-sound screen. Normally, if Abby were present, she might hold the woman's hand, say it wouldn't be that long; small talk of that nature. She didn't normally see anything on the abortion side of the precedure. It was when a different abortionist came at some point that Abby was asked do participate in the ultra-sound guided abortion. Then and only then did she personally witness what happened on the ultra-sound screen during a real abortion. That, marked her conversion point. If you would read the book Sticks, you might have known this.

reply from: SticksAndStones

Elessar, I didn't say Abby performed abortions. I was referring to Dr. Bernard Nathanson as an example and you cannot convince me that the Doctor never looked at the product of his endeavors. Ridiculous. My suggestion was that no one needs ultra-sound to realize that human fetuses are humans. All of us possess every perceptual capacity to know that abortion kills humans. Period. Why is it that neither you or I ever needed any stinking ultra-sound to know what's right and wrong. Why didn't they know? Are they half stupid? It makes no sense. Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

reply from: nancyu

You know.. I have a real problem with this notion that ultrasound is somehow creating converts. How in the #^$* can an abortion doctor be moved by some blurry pictures and not moved at all by the thousands of tiny body parts he's been busy tearing out of hundreds wombs? That sounds patently stupid to me. I call bull$hit on that. I call bull$hit on Abby Johnson and her Crocodile tears. She's not fooling me. There's something seriously wrong that person.

reply from: Elessar

http://rightsoftheunborn.blogspot.com/2011/03/life-vs-hate-price-of-mercy.html
">http://rightsoftheunborn.blogs...e-of-mercy.html
Veterans to the public abortion discussion know that there are extreme elements on both sides of the question of abortion. In contrast to success and power of a pro-life conversion story like Abby Johnson's, whose book UnPlanned documents her own personal departure from Planned Parenthood to the pro-life movement, I offer this comment that was delivered to a someone who had recently left the pro-life movement. For the sake of anonymity, I shall refrain from stating the name of the individual who made this specific commnent or to whom it was individually directed. In fact, more people are prepared to leave the abortion because of the powerful witness of those who have left industry even as this is being written. For anyone in the pro-life movement, always remember that people who perfom abortions are first of all human beings. They may neither know or accept the gravity of the evil that they do and have done in the past. However, when they finally stand ready to change their heart and mind, be ready as disciples of life to receive them with a big heart and short memory. Only God can forgive sins and only God can account for them. Whom God can forgive, heal and make new, we can accept as our own, exactly as he commands us to do.
So I ask you, is this the Christ inspired voice of healing and compassion, or is this the voice of hatred?
Here is where you are absolutely wrong. Number one, the bible actually says to do no murder. Murder is the shedding of innocent blood. Tiller was given several decades to quit. He would have been right back to killing children on Monday. SSSSSOOOOOO we are to exstend AAAAALLLLL this mercy to baby killers, and ignore justice for the one's they kill? Your "mercy" comes at to high a price, and is cruelty to the innocent. Just because you are a baby killer who escaped justice (death), does it mean the womb child is undeserving of defense from evil aggression. Go talk down your self righteous nose to someone else baby killer. I am glad for you that you escaped the justice due all baby killers, but in case you haven't noticed, the children are still dying. Your post agrees with Planned Parenthood that womb children do not deserve the same consideration as a born person, and you condemn a man who did. Keep your prayers to your self. I don't need to be puked on by a baby killer. Pray for yourself. Maybe the scales will be removed from your eyes."
Another example I present to you, from a married woman and mother who calls herself a pro-life Christian. These were her words reflecting upon the death of abortionist George Tiller who was shot and killed by convicted murderer Scott Roeder:
I have to confess that I did not for a moment feel the pain over what the active would have to endure because of Roeder's action. I had an hour when I was trembling, thankful and excited that he (Tiller) was gone- Who (in the "pro-life movement") wasn't excited about the idea that his hands would never commit such a sickening atrocity again? To condone the killing of any innocent being, means that we condon the killing of them all.

reply from: nancyu

DEFINITELY the voice of compassion for the victims (as opposed to your misplaced and completely irrational compassion for perpetrators of the crimes).


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