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News Flash

The Abortioneers are trying to ignore us...

by: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html

reply from: nancyu

http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/

reply from: nancyu

edited == trying not to offend the "you-know-whos" or should I say "you know whats" but they can be sooo touchy.

reply from: ProInformed

apparently the sort of sane, non-violent reasoning a ranting rabid pro-abort like you is too far gone to comprehend... your violent hatred towards your preborn human victims prevents you from comprehending anything but the vicious violent response to innocent preborn babies
sicko

reply from: nancyu

apparently the sort of sane, non-violent reasoning a ranting rabid pro-abort like you is too far gone to comprehend... your violent hatred towards your preborn human victims prevents you from comprehending anything but the vicious violent response to innocent preborn babies
sicko
Did you ever hear the song "It'll Come to You" by John Hiatt.
It'll come to her. Someday. Maybe.

reply from: Banned Member

http://lilithfund.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-care-reform-for-women.html
http://thecoathangerproject.blogspot.com/2009/08/abortion-evangelist.html
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/09/one-of-those-days.html
http://chicagoabortionfund.blogspot.com/2009/09/when-womans-choice-is-womans-choice.html
http://abortionclinicdays.blogs.com/abortionclinicdays/2009/08/departures.html
http://myabortionblog.tumblr.com/post/105251855/sex-money-prostitution
http://1outof3.blogspot.com/2009/05/help-break-silence.html
http://prochoiceabortionblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/celebrate-national-day-of-appreciation.html
http://iamemilyx.blogspot.com/
http://clinicescort.blogspot.com/
http://antichoiceantiawesome.blogspot.com/
http://iamdrtiller.com/
http://myabortion.tumblr.com/
These sites need help getting traffic. We should help them.

reply from: nancyu

Those poor souls. It's such a thankless profession. Never so much as a simple "thank you for killing my baby for me" Is that so much to ask??!! pity, pity, pity...
HERE ARE A FEW HELPFUL HINTS FOR ABORTIONEERS:
GET A DIFFERENT JOB!! WOMEN DON'T NEED YOU TO HELP THEM KILL THEIR CHILDREN!! STAY OUT OF THEIR UTERUSES!! IF YOU MUST ABORT -- ABORT YOURSELF!! PUT YOURSELF IN THE FEET OF THE UNBORN CHILD AND SEE HOW YOU LIKE DISMEMBERMENT!!

reply from: Rosalie

Fetuses can now post on the internet? Did you contact any medical journals? They'd be really interested.
Unless of course this fetal posting proves to be only more deluded nonsense from the so-called pro-lifers who imagine that they are speaking for zygotes, embryos and fetuses, of course.

reply from: saucie

Fetuses can now post on the internet? Did you contact any medical journals? They'd be really interested.
Unless of course this fetal posting proves to be only more deluded nonsense from the so-called pro-lifers who imagine that they are speaking for zygotes, embryos and fetuses, of course.
And the Jews and Blacks were greatful that someone was speaking for them too...yes, we give a voice to those who are voicless, but then that's what drives you absolutley nuts....(love it!)

reply from: Rosalie

Insults, lies, idiotic statement that warp the history just in order to insult people you disagree with.... yeah, nothing new, you're just doing what an average pro-fetal-lifer does. When you have an actual argument instead of mindless insults, we may actually have a discussion. Until then, you can continue this fatuous, psychological self-gratification of your warped mind all you want. At least people from the outside who come to check out this board will see what you really are.
And by the way, your presumption that all zygotes/embryos/fetuses WANT to be born with no regards to the wishes or overall situation of the person they are dependent on is absolutely ridiculous, asinine and ignorant.

reply from: saucie

Now the "mindless" Zygotes/embryos/fetusus suddenly have minds (we already knew that)! How else can you possibly explain that ludicrous statement; that they may not WANT to be born...wow, you've gone off the deep end...(snicker)
And thanks for pointing out what we already knew...there's a term for every stage of development....big news.

reply from: QueenJ

The following is the ACTUAL posting sans the absolutely idiotic (not to mention, horrifyingly grammatically incorrect) "revision" by nancyu.
News Flash: The antis are talking about us and our blog has had an exponential rise in anti-abortion traffic. With that, has come an increase in anti-abortion comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As Anti-Anti and Vulva Flower stated in the last two posts, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-life" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or debate. Those people do exist. Some have been our clients! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before their abortions, "I don't believe in abortion" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to have dialogue with individuals like that.
What's not okay: antis stalking our blog, taking our words out of context, twisting our work, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We Abortioneers always have to defend ourselves, our work. *****, many of us even defend ourselves to loved ones. Some lose friendships. Raise your hand if you've been de-friended after "coming out" as an Abortioneer on Facebook after Tiller's murder. Yeah. I thought so. Most of you!
This increase in muddying-up our blog is annoying at best. I might seem like a coward, but it's also made me think I should edit myself; like I'm going to have to be careful of what I say so it's not taken out of context, so I can "protect" our field, so I don't dishonor our clients. It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the antis would leave us the ***** alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the women we serve and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tread on our feet? To dishonour the women we serve? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we feel doing this special life-work. (No pun intended.)
I mean what I said: life-work. Abortion work IS life-work. Hell, if any group of people truly are pro-life, it's the pro-choicers! We're all about the life of the living woman and helping to empower, ensure that that she can move forward, doing the best she can with what she's got right now. So how dare anyone try to minimize her experience! How dare anyone try to take that away from her! Really. Who the hell do you think you are?!
This blog is for not just us who write here. It's for all of you who do this work. We know how isolating and hard it can be. We know that when you go home, it's challenging to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, because they just.won't.get.it. We know it's not a normal job. And we know that the only thing that keeps us going sometimes is the warm, kind smile from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "thank you." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little thank you.
Think about that last "thank you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "thanks" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What a profound, beautiful difference you make. Thank you.

reply from: nancyu

Yeah, we read this already. I posted a link to the original, genuis.
I'm sorry queenie, but "thank you" is not a concept I can grasp when it is applied to "helping" a woman by killing her offspring for her.
I guess I'm a little dense; I can't delude myself enough to believe that no one dies in an abortion. I honestly wish I could. Then I would be right there with you and Rosalie, fighting for a "woman's right to choose". But gosh darn it all, I can't keep myself from adding the words "to kill her own children" after the phrase. And those http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg kind of get stuck in your head, you know what I mean?
I tell ya, it sucks to be me.

reply from: QueenJ

Now the "mindless" Zygotes/embryos/fetusus suddenly have minds (we already knew that)! How else can you possibly explain that ludicrous statement; that they may not WANT to be born...wow, you've gone off the deep end...(snicker)
And thanks for pointing out what we already knew...there's a term for every stage of development....big news.
SHUT UP!

reply from: QueenJ

I'd feel badly, too, if my grasp on the English language was as tenuous as yours.

reply from: saucie

Now the "mindless" Zygotes/embryos/fetusus suddenly have minds (we already knew that)! How else can you possibly explain that ludicrous statement; that they may not WANT to be born...wow, you've gone off the deep end...(snicker)
And thanks for pointing out what we already knew...there's a term for every stage of development....big news.
SHUT UP!
no

reply from: nancyu

I'd feel badly, too, if my grasp on the English language was as tenuous as yours.
You're right, it needed work. I tried my best to fix it.
Defending innocent human life just seems so trivial when compared to bad grammar.
I'm sure it is comforting to know that you're grammatically superior to me... Yeah. So's my computer.

reply from: QueenJ

Now the "mindless" Zygotes/embryos/fetusus suddenly have minds (we already knew that)! How else can you possibly explain that ludicrous statement; that they may not WANT to be born...wow, you've gone off the deep end...(snicker)
And thanks for pointing out what we already knew...there's a term for every stage of development....big news.
SHUT UP!
no
SHUT UP.

reply from: nancyu

http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/

reply from: ProInformed

And the Jews and Blacks were greatful that someone was speaking for them too...yes, we give a voice to those who are voicless, but then that's what drives you absolutley nuts....(love it!)
ah but the brutal butchers never like it when somebody sticks up for the victims, do they?
the pro-abort response to "you are a child of the universe - you have a right to be here"...
fatal violence against innocent preborn children

reply from: nancyu

Will your love and compassion overcome her grief when ( and if ) Ellie realizes that she has killed her own child?
Will your love and compassion bring this child back?
Will your love and compassion for Ellie (or the abortee of the day) make up for the love and compassion you lack for the rest of humanity (especially, but not limited to, Ellie's mother, and Ellie's child)?
Is it really "love and compassion" for Ellie you are feeling? Or is it love of the idea that you get paid to kill other people's children?
Is your conscience failing you, or have you just become really really good at ignoring it?

reply from: SpitMcGee

Black slaves were not voiceless. They had a voice, a strong and prevailing one. They had started their own fight against slavery--through escapes, protests, rebellions, and literature--long before white abolitionists got involved. Abolitionism didn't grow from a sense of pity or a need to "protect the voiceless." It grew out of a recognition of the voice that slaves very clearly did have, no matter what the attempts to quell it. If slaves didn't have this voice, if they had been content to be slaves, nothing would have changed.
Efforts to compare abortion to slavery ignore this fact, because it is a glaring flaw in the analogy. Slaves were indispensable actors in their own fight for freedom; fetuses are not. Slaves wanted their freedom. They fought and died for it. Fetuses have taken no part in this debate that so greatly concerns them. Their "fight" is entirely represented by people who believe they have a moral obligation to them. Fetuses, in fact, don't seem to care at all about the battle that is being fought in their name. It is not just that they are "voiceless," they are also lacking in thought and emotion. They don't know, and they don't much care.

reply from: Banned Member

War ended slavery. War changed laws. War made equality.

reply from: faithman

Mirror watching again, huh?

reply from: nancyu

Black slaves were not voiceless. They had a voice, a strong and prevailing one. They had started their own fight against slavery--through escapes, protests, rebellions, and literature--long before white abolitionists got involved. Abolitionism didn't grow from a sense of pity or a need to "protect the voiceless." It grew out of a recognition of the voice that slaves very clearly did have, no matter what the attempts to quell it. If slaves didn't have this voice, if they had been content to be slaves, nothing would have changed.
Efforts to compare abortion to slavery ignore this fact, because it is a glaring flaw in the analogy. Slaves were indispensable actors in their own fight for freedom; fetuses are not. Slaves wanted their freedom. They fought and died for it. Fetuses have taken no part in this debate that so greatly concerns them. Their "fight" is entirely represented by people who believe they have a moral obligation to them. Fetuses, in fact, don't seem to care at all about the battle that is being fought in their name. It is not just that they are "voiceless," they are also lacking in thought and emotion. They don't know, and they don't much care.
Since they are "voiceless" how is it that you know that they don't know or care?

reply from: SpitMcGee

Observation and common sense.

reply from: SpitMcGee

There would not have been war if the slaves had not challenged the injustice in the first place. I'll repeat myself: if slaves had been content to be slaves, there would have been no civil war.
Are you implying that abortion should be ended by a violent conflict?
(This conversation sounds familiar. Maybe you'll actually answer this time.)

reply from: MC3

SpitMcGee
As someone who spent a significant part of his life immersed in Civil War history, I have to say that your ignorance of the subject is breathtaking.
Additionally, your suggestion that the unborn have no rights because, "Fetuses have taken no part in this debate that so greatly concerns them." and "Fetuses, in fact, don't seem to care at all about the battle that is being fought in their name. It is not just that they are 'voiceless,' they are also lacking in thought and emotion. They don't know, and they don't much care." is so abysmally moronic that it is impossible to know how to respond.

reply from: nancyu

Spinwiddy's final post? Almost brings a little tear to my eye...NAH!
Let's SING!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyI1OImD7ow&feature=related

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68i4tMmv9F4&NR=1

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biWPOTmLrKk&annotation_id=annotation_362708&feature=iv

reply from: SpitMcGee

If you are referring to my "there would have been no civil war" statement, I apologize; that was flawed. I am aware that other factors contributed to the Civil War.
My point still stands.

reply from: nancyu

If you are referring to my "there would have been no civil war" statement, I apologize; that was flawed. I am aware that other factors contributed to the Civil War.
My point still stands.
What point?

reply from: nancyu

Ever seen "Amazing Grace" about William Wilberforce? It might change your point of view on this statement.

reply from: Banned Member

Slavery was legal, then became illegal.
Abortion was illegal, then became legal.
Anyone able to spot the difference there?
No?

reply from: nancyu

Slavery was legal, then became illegal.
Abortion was illegal, then became legal.
Anyone able to spot the difference there?
No?
That was dumb.

reply from: Banned Member

Slavery was legal, then became illegal.
Abortion was illegal, then became legal.
Anyone able to spot the difference there?
No?
That was dumb.
Self criticism?
You failed to address the point.

reply from: nancyu

Slavery was legal, then became illegal.
Abortion was illegal, then became legal.
Anyone able to spot the difference there?
No?
That was dumb.
Self criticism?
You failed to address the point.
Do you get paid to be this dumb vexter?

reply from: Banned Member

Slavery was legal, then became illegal.
Abortion was illegal, then became legal.
Anyone able to spot the difference there?
No?
That was dumb.
Self criticism?
You failed to address the point.
Do you get paid to be this dumb vexter?
You're still not addressing the point.
Like a good antichoicer, you just shriek "UR DUMB!" instead of presenting a rational, intelligent rebuttal to the point that slavery and abortion are quite different issues and cannot be compared.

reply from: nancyu

Haha...pretending you have a point.. I get it.
Any two things can be compared. Even if they are not the same. If two things are the same, what will be achieved by comparing them?

reply from: Banned Member

UR STUPID!!!11one
Okay, let's compare abortion and...
Hmm. Let's try something totally relevant...
How about carpet.
Okay, abortion and carpet: GO!
You will be graded on your response. Extra marks for correct spelling.

reply from: jerryfox004

Check this out!!!!!
Get your http://www.flashpapers.comTerm papers done - FlashPapers.com

reply from: Shenanigans

That sounds like cheating too me.
Only scum bags cheat.

reply from: SpitMcGee

Why do you keep posting this ridiculous thing?

reply from: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html
A womb child's response:
News Flash: The abortioneers are talking about us and our womb has had an exponential rise in abortion instruments. With that, has come an increase in anti-child comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As mary jo, and janey stated in the two wombs beside mine, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-choice" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or dismembering us. Those people do exist. Some have been our mothers! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before leaving the abortuary, "I don't believe in parenthood" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to exist in wombs of individuals like that.
What's not okay: sharp, sucking instruments, pulling our limbs out of their sockets, twisting our heads, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We unborn babies can't defend ourselves, in our own wombs. gosh, many of us can't defend ourselves from loved ones. Some lose fingers and toes. Raise your hand ( if you've got one) after "coming out" -- I thought so. Many of you don't!
This increase in sucking us out of our wombs is annoying at best. I might seem ungrateful, but I'm afraid the people out there trying to defend me might need to edit themselves; like they're going to have to be careful of what they say so it's not taken out of context, so they can help "protect" the borthead's feelings, so they don't offend our "mothers". It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the bortheads would leave us the heck alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the persons we are and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tear off our tiny feet? To dishonor the persons we are? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we may someday feel if given the chance.
Heck, if any group of people truly are pro-choice, it's the babies! We're all about being given the choices that they all have come to enjoy and expect -- even take for granted. So how dare anyone try to minimize our experience! How dare anyone try to take our very lives away from us! Really. Who the h-e- double toothpicks do you think you are?!
This womb is for not just us who are carried here. It's for all of you, too. My Father, my aunts and uncles and cousins. My future next door neighbor, the little girl who will sit next to me in second grade and smile at me because I was the only one who was nice to her. We know how isolating and hard the life of a parent can be. We know that you had dreams that you fought for that might be delayed for weeks, years, even forever. But don't I get a chance to even make some dreams of my own? Don't I get the chance to try to reach a goal. That is all that we want. Just a chance to try and fail and reach and fall and get back up again. That is life. That is what it is all about. Not getting everything we want exactly when we want it, but just to live. Just to try. To fail AND to succeed. We know that when you go home, that you want to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, when all they will want is to hear about mine. Try focusing on someone else besides yourself for a minute. You just MIGHT realize that you've been missing something worth seeing. You know just a little touch of your hand, a little song now and then from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "I love you baby, whoever you will be." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little "I love you."
Think about that last "I love you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "I love you" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: wake up. wake up. wake up. What a profound, beautiful difference you can make if you will just Wake up. You're killing children.

reply from: QueenJ

You do realize that you're just making a fool of yourself by continually bringing this thread to the top of the list, right? Your attempt at reversing this piece of writing has made it nothing but incomprehensible nonsense, not the OH SNAP! you were aiming for.
Like WTF is this:
I don't know about you, but my womb is NOT for my father, my aunts, my uncles, or my cousins. My womb is NOT for my next door neighbor - present or future. My womb is NOT for the little girl who sat next to me in second grade and smiled at me because I was the only who was nice to her. Not only is the notion that my womb is for the use of any of the people mentioned absolutely disgusting (i.e. my father ... uh, gross), but IT MAKES NO SENSE.
I'd go through the rest of your post and point out the (more than likely) many other inconsistencies, but I foresee myself getting about two sentences in and getting a headache from the frighteningly massive absence of sense and logic.

reply from: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html
A womb child's response:
News Flash: The abortioneers are talking about us and our womb has had an exponential rise in abortion instruments. With that, has come an increase in anti-child comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As mary jo, and janey stated in the two wombs beside mine, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-choice" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or dismembering us. Those people do exist. Some have been our mothers! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before leaving the abortuary, "I don't believe in parenthood" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to exist in wombs of individuals like that.
What's not okay: sharp, sucking instruments, pulling our limbs out of their sockets, twisting our heads, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We unborn babies can't defend ourselves, in our own wombs. gosh, many of us can't defend ourselves from loved ones. Some lose fingers and toes. Raise your hand ( if you've got one) after "coming out" -- I thought so. Many of you don't!
This increase in sucking us out of our wombs is annoying at best. I might seem ungrateful, but I'm afraid the people out there trying to defend me might need to edit themselves; like they're going to have to be careful of what they say so it's not taken out of context, so they can help "protect" the borthead's feelings, so they don't offend our "mothers". It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the bortheads would leave us the heck alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the persons we are and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tear off our tiny feet? To dishonor the persons we are? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we may someday feel if given the chance.
Heck, if any group of people truly are pro-choice, it's the babies! We're all about being given the choices that they all have come to enjoy and expect -- even take for granted. So how dare anyone try to minimize our experience! How dare anyone try to take our very lives away from us! Really. Who the h-e- double toothpicks do you think you are?!
This womb is for not just us who are carried here. It's for all of you, too. My Father, my aunts and uncles and cousins. My future next door neighbor, the little girl who will sit next to me in second grade and smile at me because I was the only one who was nice to her. We know how isolating and hard the life of a parent can be. We know that you had dreams that you fought for that might be delayed for weeks, years, even forever. But don't I get a chance to even make some dreams of my own? Don't I get the chance to try to reach a goal. That is all that we want. Just a chance to try and fail and reach and fall and get back up again. That is life. That is what it is all about. Not getting everything we want exactly when we want it, but just to live. Just to try. To fail AND to succeed. We know that when you go home, that you want to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, when all they will want is to hear about mine. Try focusing on someone else besides yourself for a minute. You just MIGHT realize that you've been missing something worth seeing. You know just a little touch of your hand, a little song now and then from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "I love you baby, whoever you will be." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little "I love you."
Think about that last "I love you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "I love you" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: wake up. wake up. wake up. What a profound, beautiful difference you can make if you will just Wake up. You're killing children.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iwBr1lJPH4&feature=player_embedded

reply from: Banned Member

Shhhh!
I love watching her make a tool of herself!
Don't stop her!

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOOksTDDNBA&NR=1

reply from: QueenJ

nancyu and faithman ... quite a fitting pair.

reply from: Banned Member

It is a melancholy object to those who walk through this great town or travel in the country, when they see the streets, the roads, and cabin doors, crowded with beggars of the female sex, followed by three, four, or six children, all in rags and importuning every passenger for an alms. These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless infants: who as they grow up either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes.
I think it is agreed by all parties that this prodigious number of children in the arms, or on the backs, or at the heels of their mothers, and frequently of their fathers, is in the present deplorable state of the kingdom a very great additional grievance; and, therefore, whoever could find out a fair, cheap, and easy method of making these children sound, useful members of the commonwealth, would deserve so well of the public as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the nation.
But my intention is very far from being confined to provide only for the children of professed beggars; it is of a much greater extent, and shall take in the whole number of infants at a certain age who are born of parents in effect as little able to support them as those who demand our charity in the streets.
"I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ..."
As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of other projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in the computation. It is true, a child just dropped from its dam may be supported by her milk for a solar year, with little other nourishment; at most not above the value of 2s., which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead of being a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute to the feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousands.
There is likewise another great advantage in my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas! too frequent among us! sacrificing the poor innocent babes I doubt more to avoid the expense than the shame, which would move tears and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.
The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couples who are able to maintain their own children, although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom; but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. I again subtract fifty thousand for those women who miscarry, or whose children die by accident or disease within the year. There only remains one hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born. The question therefore is, how this number shall be reared and provided for, which, as I have already said, under the present situation of affairs, is utterly impossible by all the methods hitherto proposed. For we can neither employ them in handicraft or agriculture; we neither build houses (I mean in the country) nor cultivate land: they can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing, till they arrive at six years old, except where they are of towardly parts, although I confess they learn the rudiments much earlier, during which time, they can however be properly looked upon only as probationers, as I have been informed by a principal gentleman in the county of Cavan, who protested to me that he never knew above one or two instances under the age of six, even in a part of the kingdom so renowned for the quickest proficiency in that art.
I am assured by our merchants, that a boy or a girl before twelve years old is no salable commodity; and even when they come to this age they will not yield above three pounds, or three pounds and half-a-crown at most on the exchange; which cannot turn to account either to the parents or kingdom, the charge of nutriment and rags having been at least four times that value.
I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.
I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.
I do therefore humbly offer it to public consideration that of the hundred and twenty thousand children already computed, twenty thousand may be reserved for breed, whereof only one-fourth part to be males; which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle or swine; and my reason is, that these children are seldom the fruits of marriage, a circumstance not much regarded by our savages, therefore one male will be sufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousand may, at a year old, be offered in the sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom; always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a good table. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends; and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter.
I have reckoned upon a medium that a child just born will weigh 12 pounds, and in a solar year, if tolerably nursed, increaseth to 28 pounds.
I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who, as they have already devoured most of the parents, seem to have the best title to the children.
Infant's flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentiful in March, and a little before and after; for we are told by a grave author, an eminent French physician, that fish being a prolific diet, there are more children born in Roman Catholic countries about nine months after Lent than at any other season; therefore, reckoning a year after Lent, the markets will be more glutted than usual, because the number of popish infants is at least three to one in this kingdom: and therefore it will have one other collateral advantage, by lessening the number of papists among us.
I have already computed the charge of nursing a beggar's child (in which list I reckon all cottagers, laborers, and four-fifths of the farmers) to be about two shillings per annum, rags included; and I believe no gentleman would repine to give ten shillings for the carcass of a good fat child, which, as I have said, will make four dishes of excellent nutritive meat, when he hath only some particular friend or his own family to dine with him. Thus the squire will learn to be a good landlord, and grow popular among his tenants; the mother will have eight shillings net profit, and be fit for work till she produces another child.
Those who are more thrifty (as I must confess the times require) may flay the carcass; the skin of which artificially dressed will make admirable gloves for ladies, and summer boots for fine gentlemen.
As to our city of Dublin, shambles may be appointed for this purpose in the most convenient parts of it, and butchers we may be assured will not be wanting; although I rather recommend buying the children alive, and dressing them hot from the knife, as we do roasting pigs.
A very worthy person, a true lover of his country, and whose virtues I highly esteem, was lately pleased in discoursing on this matter to offer a refinement upon my scheme. He said that many gentlemen of this kingdom, having of late destroyed their deer, he conceived that the want of venison might be well supplied by the bodies of young lads and maidens, not exceeding fourteen years of age nor under twelve; so great a number of both sexes in every country being now ready to starve for want of work and service; and these to be disposed of by their parents, if alive, or otherwise by their nearest relations. But with due deference to so excellent a friend and so deserving a patriot, I cannot be altogether in his sentiments; for as to the males, my American acquaintance assured me, from frequent experience, that their flesh was generally tough and lean, like that of our schoolboys by continual exercise, and their taste disagreeable; and to fatten them would not answer the charge. Then as to the females, it would, I think, with humble submission be a loss to the public, because they soon would become breeders themselves; and besides, it is not improbable that some scrupulous people might be apt to censure such a practice (although indeed very unjustly), as a little bordering upon cruelty; which, I confess, hath always been with me the strongest objection against any project, however so well intended.
But in order to justify my friend, he confessed that this expedient was put into his head by the famous Psalmanazar, a native of the island Formosa, who came from thence to London above twenty years ago, and in conversation told my friend, that in his country when any young person happened to be put to death, the executioner sold the carcass to persons of quality as a prime dainty; and that in his time the body of a plump girl of fifteen, who was crucified for an attempt to poison the emperor, was sold to his imperial majesty's prime minister of state, and other great mandarins of the court, in joints from the gibbet, at four hundred crowns. Neither indeed can I deny, that if the same use were made of several plump young girls in this town, who without one single groat to their fortunes cannot stir abroad without a chair, and appear at playhouse and assemblies in foreign fineries which they never will pay for, the kingdom would not be the worse.
Some persons of a desponding spirit are in great concern about that vast number of poor people, who are aged, diseased, or maimed, and I have been desired to employ my thoughts what course may be taken to ease the nation of so grievous an encumbrance. But I am not in the least pain upon that matter, because it is very well known that they are every day dying and rotting by cold and famine, and filth and vermin, as fast as can be reasonably expected. And as to the young laborers, they are now in as hopeful a condition; they cannot get work, and consequently pine away for want of nourishment, to a degree that if at any time they are accidentally hired to common labor, they have not strength to perform it; and thus the country and themselves are happily delivered from the evils to come.
I have too long digressed, and therefore shall return to my subject. I think the advantages by the proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance.
For first, as I have already observed, it would greatly lessen the number of papists, with whom we are yearly overrun, being the principal breeders of the nation as well as our most dangerous enemies; and who stay at home on purpose with a design to deliver the kingdom to the Pretender, hoping to take their advantage by the absence of so many good protestants, who have chosen rather to leave their country than stay at home and pay tithes against their conscience to an episcopal curate.
Secondly, The poorer tenants will have something valuable of their own, which by law may be made liable to distress and help to pay their landlord's rent, their corn and cattle being already seized, and money a thing unknown.
Thirdly, Whereas the maintenance of an hundred thousand children, from two years old and upward, cannot be computed at less than ten shillings a-piece per annum, the nation's stock will be thereby increased fifty thousand pounds per annum, beside the profit of a new dish introduced to the tables of all gentlemen of fortune in the kingdom who have any refinement in taste. And the money will circulate among ourselves, the goods being entirely of our own growth and manufacture.
Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year.
Fifthly, This food would likewise bring great custom to taverns; where the vintners will certainly be so prudent as to procure the best receipts for dressing it to perfection, and consequently have their houses frequented by all the fine gentlemen, who justly value themselves upon their knowledge in good eating: and a skilful cook, who understands how to oblige his guests, will contrive to make it as expensive as they please.
Sixthly, This would be a great inducement to marriage, which all wise nations have either encouraged by rewards or enforced by laws and penalties. It would increase the care and tenderness of mothers toward their children, when they were sure of a settlement for life to the poor babes, provided in some sort by the public, to their annual profit instead of expense. We should see an honest emulation among the married women, which of them could bring the fattest child to the market. Men would become as fond of their wives during the time of their pregnancy as they are now of their mares in foal, their cows in calf, their sows when they are ready to farrow; nor offer to beat or kick them (as is too frequent a practice) for fear of a miscarriage.
Many other advantages might be enumerated. For instance, the addition of some thousand carcasses in our exportation of barreled beef, the propagation of swine's flesh, and improvement in the art of making good bacon, so much wanted among us by the great destruction of pigs, too frequent at our tables; which are no way comparable in taste or magnificence to a well-grown, fat, yearling child, which roasted whole will make a considerable figure at a lord mayor's feast or any other public entertainment. But this and many others I omit, being studious of brevity.
Supposing that one thousand families in this city, would be constant customers for infants flesh, besides others who might have it at merry meetings, particularly at weddings and christenings, I compute that Dublin would take off annually about twenty thousand carcasses; and the rest of the kingdom (where probably they will be sold somewhat cheaper) the remaining eighty thousand.
I can think of no one objection, that will possibly be raised against this proposal, unless it should be urged, that the number of people will be thereby much lessened in the kingdom. This I freely own, and 'twas indeed one principal design in offering it to the world. I desire the reader will observe, that I calculate my remedy for this one individual Kingdom of Ireland, and for no other that ever was, is, or, I think, ever can be upon Earth. Therefore let no man talk to me of other expedients: Of taxing our absentees at five shillings a pound: Of using neither cloaths, nor houshold furniture, except what is of our own growth and manufacture: Of utterly rejecting the materials and instruments that promote foreign luxury: Of curing the expensiveness of pride, vanity, idleness, and gaming in our women: Of introducing a vein of parsimony, prudence and temperance: Of learning to love our country, wherein we differ even from Laplanders, and the inhabitants of Topinamboo: Of quitting our animosities and factions, nor acting any longer like the Jews, who were murdering one another at the very moment their city was taken: Of being a little cautious not to sell our country and consciences for nothing: Of teaching landlords to have at least one degree of mercy towards their tenants. Lastly, of putting a spirit of honesty, industry, and skill into our shop-keepers, who, if a resolution could now be taken to buy only our native goods, would immediately unite to cheat and exact upon us in the price, the measure, and the goodness, nor could ever yet be brought to make one fair proposal of just dealing, though often and earnestly invited to it.
Therefore I repeat, let no man talk to me of these and the like expedients, 'till he hath at least some glympse of hope, that there will ever be some hearty and sincere attempt to put them into practice.
But, as to my self, having been wearied out for many years with offering vain, idle, visionary thoughts, and at length utterly despairing of success, I fortunately fell upon this proposal, which, as it is wholly new, so it hath something solid and real, of no expence and little trouble, full in our own power, and whereby we can incur no danger in disobliging England. For this kind of commodity will not bear exportation, and flesh being of too tender a consistence, to admit a long continuance in salt, although perhaps I could name a country, which would be glad to eat up our whole nation without it.
After all, I am not so violently bent upon my own opinion as to reject any offer proposed by wise men, which shall be found equally innocent, cheap, easy, and effectual. But before something of that kind shall be advanced in contradiction to my scheme, and offering a better, I desire the author or authors will be pleased maturely to consider two points. First, as things now stand, how they will be able to find food and raiment for an hundred thousand useless mouths and backs. And secondly, there being a round million of creatures in human figure throughout this kingdom, whose whole subsistence put into a common stock would leave them in debt two millions of pounds sterling, adding those who are beggars by profession to the bulk of farmers, cottagers, and laborers, with their wives and children who are beggars in effect: I desire those politicians who dislike my overture, and may perhaps be so bold as to attempt an answer, that they will first ask the parents of these mortals, whether they would not at this day think it a great happiness to have been sold for food, at a year old in the manner I prescribe, and thereby have avoided such a perpetual scene of misfortunes as they have since gone through by the oppression of landlords, the impossibility of paying rent without money or trade, the want of common sustenance, with neither house nor clothes to cover them from the inclemencies of the weather, and the most inevitable prospect of entailing the like or greater miseries upon their breed for ever.
I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich. I have no children by which I can propose to get a single penny; the youngest being nine years old, and my wife past child-bearing.
The End

reply from: nancyu

Yeah, I've seen this before. Are you the author Vex?

reply from: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html
A womb child's response:
News Flash: The abortioneers are talking about us and our womb has had an exponential rise in abortion instruments. With that, has come an increase in anti-child comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As mary jo, and janey stated in the two wombs beside mine, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-choice" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or dismembering us. Those people do exist. Some have been our mothers! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before leaving the abortuary, "I don't believe in parenthood" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to exist in wombs of individuals like that.
What's not okay: sharp, sucking instruments, pulling our limbs out of their sockets, twisting our heads, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We unborn babies can't defend ourselves, in our own wombs. gosh, many of us can't defend ourselves from loved ones. Some lose fingers and toes. Raise your hand ( if you've got one) after "coming out" -- I thought so. Many of you don't!
This increase in sucking us out of our wombs is annoying at best. I might seem ungrateful, but I'm afraid the people out there trying to defend me might need to edit themselves; like they're going to have to be careful of what they say so it's not taken out of context, so they can help "protect" the borthead's feelings, so they don't offend our "mothers". It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the bortheads would leave us the heck alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the persons we are and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tear off our tiny feet? To dishonor the persons we are? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we may someday feel if given the chance.
Heck, if any group of people truly are pro-choice, it's the babies! We're all about being given the choices that they all have come to enjoy and expect -- even take for granted. So how dare anyone try to minimize our experience! How dare anyone try to take our very lives away from us! Really. Who the h-e- double toothpicks do you think you are?!
This womb is for not just us who are carried here. It's for all of you, too. My Father, my aunts and uncles and cousins. My future next door neighbor, the little girl who will sit next to me in second grade and smile at me because I was the only one who was nice to her. We know how isolating and hard the life of a parent can be. We know that you had dreams that you fought for that might be delayed for weeks, years, even forever. But don't I get a chance to even make some dreams of my own? Don't I get the chance to try to reach a goal. That is all that we want. Just a chance to try and fail and reach and fall and get back up again. That is life. That is what it is all about. Not getting everything we want exactly when we want it, but just to live. Just to try. To fail AND to succeed. We know that when you go home, that you want to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, when all they will want is to hear about mine. Try focusing on someone else besides yourself for a minute. You just MIGHT realize that you've been missing something worth seeing. You know just a little touch of your hand, a little song now and then from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "I love you baby, whoever you will be." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little "I love you."
Think about that last "I love you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "I love you" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: wake up. wake up. wake up. What a profound, beautiful difference you can make if you will just Wake up. You're killing children.

reply from: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html
A womb child's response:
News Flash: The abortioneers are talking about us and our womb has had an exponential rise in abortion instruments. With that, has come an increase in anti-child comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As mary jo, and janey stated in the two wombs beside mine, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-choice" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or dismembering us. Those people do exist. Some have been our mothers! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before leaving the abortuary, "I don't believe in parenthood" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to exist in wombs of individuals like that.
What's not okay: sharp, sucking instruments, pulling our limbs out of their sockets, twisting our heads, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We unborn babies can't defend ourselves, in our own wombs. gosh, many of us can't defend ourselves from loved ones. Some lose fingers and toes. Raise your hand ( if you've got one) after "coming out" -- I thought so. Many of you don't!
This increase in sucking us out of our wombs is annoying at best. I might seem ungrateful, but I'm afraid the people out there trying to defend me might need to edit themselves; like they're going to have to be careful of what they say so it's not taken out of context, so they can help "protect" the borthead's feelings, so they don't offend our "mothers". It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the bortheads would leave us the heck alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the persons we are and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tear off our tiny feet? To dishonor the persons we are? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we may someday feel if given the chance.
Heck, if any group of people truly are pro-choice, it's the babies! We're all about being given the choices that they all have come to enjoy and expect -- even take for granted. So how dare anyone try to minimize our experience! How dare anyone try to take our very lives away from us! Really. Who the h-e- double toothpicks do you think you are?!
We children are not here just for the woman who carries us in her womb. We are here for ourselves, too. We are here for our Father, our aunts and uncles and cousins. Our future next door neighbor, the little girl who will sit next to us in second grade. We know how isolating and hard the life of a mother can be. We know that you had dreams that you fought for that might be delayed for weeks, years, even forever. But don't we get a chance to even make some dreams of our own? Don't we get the chance to try to reach a goal. That is all that we want. Just a chance to try and fail and reach and fall and get back up again. That is life. That is what it is all about. Not getting everything we want exactly when we want it, but just to live. Just to try. To fail AND to succeed. We know that when you go home, that you want to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, when all they will want is to hear about mine. Try focusing on someone else besides yourself for a minute. You just MIGHT realize that you've been missing something worth seeing. You know, just a little touch of your hand, a little song now and then from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "I love you baby, whoever you will be." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little "I love you."
Think about that last "I love you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "I love you" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: wake up. wake up. wake up. What a profound, beautiful difference you can make if you will just Wake up. You're killing children.

reply from: Banned Member

It is a melancholy object to those who walk through this great town or travel in the country, when they see the streets, the roads, and cabin doors, crowded with beggars of the female sex, followed by three, four, or six children, all in rags and importuning every passenger for an alms. These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless infants: who as they grow up either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes.
I think it is agreed by all parties that this prodigious number of children in the arms, or on the backs, or at the heels of their mothers, and frequently of their fathers, is in the present deplorable state of the kingdom a very great additional grievance; and, therefore, whoever could find out a fair, cheap, and easy method of making these children sound, useful members of the commonwealth, would deserve so well of the public as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the nation.
But my intention is very far from being confined to provide only for the children of professed beggars; it is of a much greater extent, and shall take in the whole number of infants at a certain age who are born of parents in effect as little able to support them as those who demand our charity in the streets.
"I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ..."
As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of other projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in the computation. It is true, a child just dropped from its dam may be supported by her milk for a solar year, with little other nourishment; at most not above the value of 2s., which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead of being a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute to the feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousands.
There is likewise another great advantage in my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas! too frequent among us! sacrificing the poor innocent babes I doubt more to avoid the expense than the shame, which would move tears and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.
The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couples who are able to maintain their own children, although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom; but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. I again subtract fifty thousand for those women who miscarry, or whose children die by accident or disease within the year. There only remains one hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born. The question therefore is, how this number shall be reared and provided for, which, as I have already said, under the present situation of affairs, is utterly impossible by all the methods hitherto proposed. For we can neither employ them in handicraft or agriculture; we neither build houses (I mean in the country) nor cultivate land: they can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing, till they arrive at six years old, except where they are of towardly parts, although I confess they learn the rudiments much earlier, during which time, they can however be properly looked upon only as probationers, as I have been informed by a principal gentleman in the county of Cavan, who protested to me that he never knew above one or two instances under the age of six, even in a part of the kingdom so renowned for the quickest proficiency in that art.
I am assured by our merchants, that a boy or a girl before twelve years old is no salable commodity; and even when they come to this age they will not yield above three pounds, or three pounds and half-a-crown at most on the exchange; which cannot turn to account either to the parents or kingdom, the charge of nutriment and rags having been at least four times that value.
I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.
I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.
I do therefore humbly offer it to public consideration that of the hundred and twenty thousand children already computed, twenty thousand may be reserved for breed, whereof only one-fourth part to be males; which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle or swine; and my reason is, that these children are seldom the fruits of marriage, a circumstance not much regarded by our savages, therefore one male will be sufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousand may, at a year old, be offered in the sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom; always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a good table. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends; and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter.
I have reckoned upon a medium that a child just born will weigh 12 pounds, and in a solar year, if tolerably nursed, increaseth to 28 pounds.
I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who, as they have already devoured most of the parents, seem to have the best title to the children.
Infant's flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentiful in March, and a little before and after; for we are told by a grave author, an eminent French physician, that fish being a prolific diet, there are more children born in Roman Catholic countries about nine months after Lent than at any other season; therefore, reckoning a year after Lent, the markets will be more glutted than usual, because the number of popish infants is at least three to one in this kingdom: and therefore it will have one other collateral advantage, by lessening the number of papists among us.
I have already computed the charge of nursing a beggar's child (in which list I reckon all cottagers, laborers, and four-fifths of the farmers) to be about two shillings per annum, rags included; and I believe no gentleman would repine to give ten shillings for the carcass of a good fat child, which, as I have said, will make four dishes of excellent nutritive meat, when he hath only some particular friend or his own family to dine with him. Thus the squire will learn to be a good landlord, and grow popular among his tenants; the mother will have eight shillings net profit, and be fit for work till she produces another child.
Those who are more thrifty (as I must confess the times require) may flay the carcass; the skin of which artificially dressed will make admirable gloves for ladies, and summer boots for fine gentlemen.
As to our city of Dublin, shambles may be appointed for this purpose in the most convenient parts of it, and butchers we may be assured will not be wanting; although I rather recommend buying the children alive, and dressing them hot from the knife, as we do roasting pigs.
A very worthy person, a true lover of his country, and whose virtues I highly esteem, was lately pleased in discoursing on this matter to offer a refinement upon my scheme. He said that many gentlemen of this kingdom, having of late destroyed their deer, he conceived that the want of venison might be well supplied by the bodies of young lads and maidens, not exceeding fourteen years of age nor under twelve; so great a number of both sexes in every country being now ready to starve for want of work and service; and these to be disposed of by their parents, if alive, or otherwise by their nearest relations. But with due deference to so excellent a friend and so deserving a patriot, I cannot be altogether in his sentiments; for as to the males, my American acquaintance assured me, from frequent experience, that their flesh was generally tough and lean, like that of our schoolboys by continual exercise, and their taste disagreeable; and to fatten them would not answer the charge. Then as to the females, it would, I think, with humble submission be a loss to the public, because they soon would become breeders themselves; and besides, it is not improbable that some scrupulous people might be apt to censure such a practice (although indeed very unjustly), as a little bordering upon cruelty; which, I confess, hath always been with me the strongest objection against any project, however so well intended.
But in order to justify my friend, he confessed that this expedient was put into his head by the famous Psalmanazar, a native of the island Formosa, who came from thence to London above twenty years ago, and in conversation told my friend, that in his country when any young person happened to be put to death, the executioner sold the carcass to persons of quality as a prime dainty; and that in his time the body of a plump girl of fifteen, who was crucified for an attempt to poison the emperor, was sold to his imperial majesty's prime minister of state, and other great mandarins of the court, in joints from the gibbet, at four hundred crowns. Neither indeed can I deny, that if the same use were made of several plump young girls in this town, who without one single groat to their fortunes cannot stir abroad without a chair, and appear at playhouse and assemblies in foreign fineries which they never will pay for, the kingdom would not be the worse.
Some persons of a desponding spirit are in great concern about that vast number of poor people, who are aged, diseased, or maimed, and I have been desired to employ my thoughts what course may be taken to ease the nation of so grievous an encumbrance. But I am not in the least pain upon that matter, because it is very well known that they are every day dying and rotting by cold and famine, and filth and vermin, as fast as can be reasonably expected. And as to the young laborers, they are now in as hopeful a condition; they cannot get work, and consequently pine away for want of nourishment, to a degree that if at any time they are accidentally hired to common labor, they have not strength to perform it; and thus the country and themselves are happily delivered from the evils to come.
I have too long digressed, and therefore shall return to my subject. I think the advantages by the proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance.
For first, as I have already observed, it would greatly lessen the number of papists, with whom we are yearly overrun, being the principal breeders of the nation as well as our most dangerous enemies; and who stay at home on purpose with a design to deliver the kingdom to the Pretender, hoping to take their advantage by the absence of so many good protestants, who have chosen rather to leave their country than stay at home and pay tithes against their conscience to an episcopal curate.
Secondly, The poorer tenants will have something valuable of their own, which by law may be made liable to distress and help to pay their landlord's rent, their corn and cattle being already seized, and money a thing unknown.
Thirdly, Whereas the maintenance of an hundred thousand children, from two years old and upward, cannot be computed at less than ten shillings a-piece per annum, the nation's stock will be thereby increased fifty thousand pounds per annum, beside the profit of a new dish introduced to the tables of all gentlemen of fortune in the kingdom who have any refinement in taste. And the money will circulate among ourselves, the goods being entirely of our own growth and manufacture.
Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year.
Fifthly, This food would likewise bring great custom to taverns; where the vintners will certainly be so prudent as to procure the best receipts for dressing it to perfection, and consequently have their houses frequented by all the fine gentlemen, who justly value themselves upon their knowledge in good eating: and a skilful cook, who understands how to oblige his guests, will contrive to make it as expensive as they please.
Sixthly, This would be a great inducement to marriage, which all wise nations have either encouraged by rewards or enforced by laws and penalties. It would increase the care and tenderness of mothers toward their children, when they were sure of a settlement for life to the poor babes, provided in some sort by the public, to their annual profit instead of expense. We should see an honest emulation among the married women, which of them could bring the fattest child to the market. Men would become as fond of their wives during the time of their pregnancy as they are now of their mares in foal, their cows in calf, their sows when they are ready to farrow; nor offer to beat or kick them (as is too frequent a practice) for fear of a miscarriage.
Many other advantages might be enumerated. For instance, the addition of some thousand carcasses in our exportation of barreled beef, the propagation of swine's flesh, and improvement in the art of making good bacon, so much wanted among us by the great destruction of pigs, too frequent at our tables; which are no way comparable in taste or magnificence to a well-grown, fat, yearling child, which roasted whole will make a considerable figure at a lord mayor's feast or any other public entertainment. But this and many others I omit, being studious of brevity.
Supposing that one thousand families in this city, would be constant customers for infants flesh, besides others who might have it at merry meetings, particularly at weddings and christenings, I compute that Dublin would take off annually about twenty thousand carcasses; and the rest of the kingdom (where probably they will be sold somewhat cheaper) the remaining eighty thousand.
I can think of no one objection, that will possibly be raised against this proposal, unless it should be urged, that the number of people will be thereby much lessened in the kingdom. This I freely own, and 'twas indeed one principal design in offering it to the world. I desire the reader will observe, that I calculate my remedy for this one individual Kingdom of Ireland, and for no other that ever was, is, or, I think, ever can be upon Earth. Therefore let no man talk to me of other expedients: Of taxing our absentees at five shillings a pound: Of using neither cloaths, nor houshold furniture, except what is of our own growth and manufacture: Of utterly rejecting the materials and instruments that promote foreign luxury: Of curing the expensiveness of pride, vanity, idleness, and gaming in our women: Of introducing a vein of parsimony, prudence and temperance: Of learning to love our country, wherein we differ even from Laplanders, and the inhabitants of Topinamboo: Of quitting our animosities and factions, nor acting any longer like the Jews, who were murdering one another at the very moment their city was taken: Of being a little cautious not to sell our country and consciences for nothing: Of teaching landlords to have at least one degree of mercy towards their tenants. Lastly, of putting a spirit of honesty, industry, and skill into our shop-keepers, who, if a resolution could now be taken to buy only our native goods, would immediately unite to cheat and exact upon us in the price, the measure, and the goodness, nor could ever yet be brought to make one fair proposal of just dealing, though often and earnestly invited to it.
Therefore I repeat, let no man talk to me of these and the like expedients, 'till he hath at least some glympse of hope, that there will ever be some hearty and sincere attempt to put them into practice.
But, as to my self, having been wearied out for many years with offering vain, idle, visionary thoughts, and at length utterly despairing of success, I fortunately fell upon this proposal, which, as it is wholly new, so it hath something solid and real, of no expence and little trouble, full in our own power, and whereby we can incur no danger in disobliging England. For this kind of commodity will not bear exportation, and flesh being of too tender a consistence, to admit a long continuance in salt, although perhaps I could name a country, which would be glad to eat up our whole nation without it.
After all, I am not so violently bent upon my own opinion as to reject any offer proposed by wise men, which shall be found equally innocent, cheap, easy, and effectual. But before something of that kind shall be advanced in contradiction to my scheme, and offering a better, I desire the author or authors will be pleased maturely to consider two points. First, as things now stand, how they will be able to find food and raiment for an hundred thousand useless mouths and backs. And secondly, there being a round million of creatures in human figure throughout this kingdom, whose whole subsistence put into a common stock would leave them in debt two millions of pounds sterling, adding those who are beggars by profession to the bulk of farmers, cottagers, and laborers, with their wives and children who are beggars in effect: I desire those politicians who dislike my overture, and may perhaps be so bold as to attempt an answer, that they will first ask the parents of these mortals, whether they would not at this day think it a great happiness to have been sold for food, at a year old in the manner I prescribe, and thereby have avoided such a perpetual scene of misfortunes as they have since gone through by the oppression of landlords, the impossibility of paying rent without money or trade, the want of common sustenance, with neither house nor clothes to cover them from the inclemencies of the weather, and the most inevitable prospect of entailing the like or greater miseries upon their breed for ever.
I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich. I have no children by which I can propose to get a single penny; the youngest being nine years old, and my wife past child-bearing.
The End

reply from: spinvortex

It is "A Modest Proposal," by Jonathan Swift, stirring fictional satire calling attention to the plight of the Irish in the 1700s.

reply from: nancyu

Friday, December 11, 2009
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/
This is so the wrong answer. So wrong. So so so so so so wrong.
She thinks she was irresponsible because she got pregnant. PERIOD
Society tells us that getting pregnant is bad.
Society tells us that having children is bad.
Abortion is murder. It stops a life that has already begun. There is no such thing as a "potential" life. If this person's life hadn't already begun, there would be no reason to stop it -- would there.

reply from: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html
A womb child's response:
News Flash: The abortioneers are talking about us and our womb has had an exponential rise in abortion instruments. With that, has come an increase in anti-child comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As mary jo, and janey stated in the two wombs beside mine, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-choice" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or dismembering us. Those people do exist. Some have been our mothers! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before leaving the abortuary, "I don't believe in parenthood" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to exist in wombs of individuals like that.
What's not okay: sharp, sucking instruments, pulling our limbs out of their sockets, twisting our heads, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We unborn babies can't defend ourselves, in our own wombs. gosh, many of us can't defend ourselves from loved ones. Some lose fingers and toes. Raise your hand ( if you've got one) after "coming out" -- I thought so. Many of you don't!
This increase in sucking us out of our wombs is annoying at best. I might seem ungrateful, but I'm afraid the people out there trying to defend me might need to edit themselves; like they're going to have to be careful of what they say so it's not taken out of context, so they can help "protect" the borthead's feelings, so they don't offend our "mothers". It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the bortheads would leave us the heck alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the persons we are and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tear off our tiny feet? To dishonor the persons we are? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we may someday feel if given the chance.
Heck, if any group of people truly are pro-choice, it's the babies! We're all about being given the choices that they all have come to enjoy and expect -- even take for granted. So how dare anyone try to minimize our experience! How dare anyone try to take our very lives away from us! Really. Who the h-e- double toothpicks do you think you are?!
We children are not here just for the woman who carries us in her womb. We are here for ourselves, too. We are here for our Father, our aunts and uncles and cousins. Our future next door neighbor, the little girl who will sit next to us in second grade. We know how isolating and hard the life of a mother can be. We know that you had dreams that you fought for that might be delayed for weeks, years, even forever. But don't we get a chance to even make some dreams of our own? Don't we get the chance to try to reach a goal. That is all that we want. Just a chance to try and fail and reach and fall and get back up again. That is life. That is what it is all about. Not getting everything we want exactly when we want it, but just to live. Just to try. To fail AND to succeed. We know that when you go home, that you want to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, when all they will want is to hear about mine. Try focusing on someone else besides yourself for a minute. You just MIGHT realize that you've been missing something worth seeing. You know, just a little touch of your hand, a little song now and then from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "I love you baby, whoever you will be." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little "I love you."
Think about that last "I love you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "I love you" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: wake up. wake up. wake up. What a profound, beautiful difference you can make if you will just Wake up. You're killing children.

reply from: Banned Member

It is a melancholy object to those who walk through this great town or travel in the country, when they see the streets, the roads, and cabin doors, crowded with beggars of the female sex, followed by three, four, or six children, all in rags and importuning every passenger for an alms. These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless infants: who as they grow up either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes.
I think it is agreed by all parties that this prodigious number of children in the arms, or on the backs, or at the heels of their mothers, and frequently of their fathers, is in the present deplorable state of the kingdom a very great additional grievance; and, therefore, whoever could find out a fair, cheap, and easy method of making these children sound, useful members of the commonwealth, would deserve so well of the public as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the nation.
But my intention is very far from being confined to provide only for the children of professed beggars; it is of a much greater extent, and shall take in the whole number of infants at a certain age who are born of parents in effect as little able to support them as those who demand our charity in the streets.
"I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ..."
As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of other projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in the computation. It is true, a child just dropped from its dam may be supported by her milk for a solar year, with little other nourishment; at most not above the value of 2s., which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead of being a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute to the feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousands.
There is likewise another great advantage in my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas! too frequent among us! sacrificing the poor innocent babes I doubt more to avoid the expense than the shame, which would move tears and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.
The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couples who are able to maintain their own children, although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom; but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. I again subtract fifty thousand for those women who miscarry, or whose children die by accident or disease within the year. There only remains one hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born. The question therefore is, how this number shall be reared and provided for, which, as I have already said, under the present situation of affairs, is utterly impossible by all the methods hitherto proposed. For we can neither employ them in handicraft or agriculture; we neither build houses (I mean in the country) nor cultivate land: they can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing, till they arrive at six years old, except where they are of towardly parts, although I confess they learn the rudiments much earlier, during which time, they can however be properly looked upon only as probationers, as I have been informed by a principal gentleman in the county of Cavan, who protested to me that he never knew above one or two instances under the age of six, even in a part of the kingdom so renowned for the quickest proficiency in that art.
I am assured by our merchants, that a boy or a girl before twelve years old is no salable commodity; and even when they come to this age they will not yield above three pounds, or three pounds and half-a-crown at most on the exchange; which cannot turn to account either to the parents or kingdom, the charge of nutriment and rags having been at least four times that value.
I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.
I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.
I do therefore humbly offer it to public consideration that of the hundred and twenty thousand children already computed, twenty thousand may be reserved for breed, whereof only one-fourth part to be males; which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle or swine; and my reason is, that these children are seldom the fruits of marriage, a circumstance not much regarded by our savages, therefore one male will be sufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousand may, at a year old, be offered in the sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom; always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a good table. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends; and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter.
I have reckoned upon a medium that a child just born will weigh 12 pounds, and in a solar year, if tolerably nursed, increaseth to 28 pounds.
I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who, as they have already devoured most of the parents, seem to have the best title to the children.
Infant's flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentiful in March, and a little before and after; for we are told by a grave author, an eminent French physician, that fish being a prolific diet, there are more children born in Roman Catholic countries about nine months after Lent than at any other season; therefore, reckoning a year after Lent, the markets will be more glutted than usual, because the number of popish infants is at least three to one in this kingdom: and therefore it will have one other collateral advantage, by lessening the number of papists among us.
I have already computed the charge of nursing a beggar's child (in which list I reckon all cottagers, laborers, and four-fifths of the farmers) to be about two shillings per annum, rags included; and I believe no gentleman would repine to give ten shillings for the carcass of a good fat child, which, as I have said, will make four dishes of excellent nutritive meat, when he hath only some particular friend or his own family to dine with him. Thus the squire will learn to be a good landlord, and grow popular among his tenants; the mother will have eight shillings net profit, and be fit for work till she produces another child.
Those who are more thrifty (as I must confess the times require) may flay the carcass; the skin of which artificially dressed will make admirable gloves for ladies, and summer boots for fine gentlemen.
As to our city of Dublin, shambles may be appointed for this purpose in the most convenient parts of it, and butchers we may be assured will not be wanting; although I rather recommend buying the children alive, and dressing them hot from the knife, as we do roasting pigs.
A very worthy person, a true lover of his country, and whose virtues I highly esteem, was lately pleased in discoursing on this matter to offer a refinement upon my scheme. He said that many gentlemen of this kingdom, having of late destroyed their deer, he conceived that the want of venison might be well supplied by the bodies of young lads and maidens, not exceeding fourteen years of age nor under twelve; so great a number of both sexes in every country being now ready to starve for want of work and service; and these to be disposed of by their parents, if alive, or otherwise by their nearest relations. But with due deference to so excellent a friend and so deserving a patriot, I cannot be altogether in his sentiments; for as to the males, my American acquaintance assured me, from frequent experience, that their flesh was generally tough and lean, like that of our schoolboys by continual exercise, and their taste disagreeable; and to fatten them would not answer the charge. Then as to the females, it would, I think, with humble submission be a loss to the public, because they soon would become breeders themselves; and besides, it is not improbable that some scrupulous people might be apt to censure such a practice (although indeed very unjustly), as a little bordering upon cruelty; which, I confess, hath always been with me the strongest objection against any project, however so well intended.
But in order to justify my friend, he confessed that this expedient was put into his head by the famous Psalmanazar, a native of the island Formosa, who came from thence to London above twenty years ago, and in conversation told my friend, that in his country when any young person happened to be put to death, the executioner sold the carcass to persons of quality as a prime dainty; and that in his time the body of a plump girl of fifteen, who was crucified for an attempt to poison the emperor, was sold to his imperial majesty's prime minister of state, and other great mandarins of the court, in joints from the gibbet, at four hundred crowns. Neither indeed can I deny, that if the same use were made of several plump young girls in this town, who without one single groat to their fortunes cannot stir abroad without a chair, and appear at playhouse and assemblies in foreign fineries which they never will pay for, the kingdom would not be the worse.
Some persons of a desponding spirit are in great concern about that vast number of poor people, who are aged, diseased, or maimed, and I have been desired to employ my thoughts what course may be taken to ease the nation of so grievous an encumbrance. But I am not in the least pain upon that matter, because it is very well known that they are every day dying and rotting by cold and famine, and filth and vermin, as fast as can be reasonably expected. And as to the young laborers, they are now in as hopeful a condition; they cannot get work, and consequently pine away for want of nourishment, to a degree that if at any time they are accidentally hired to common labor, they have not strength to perform it; and thus the country and themselves are happily delivered from the evils to come.
I have too long digressed, and therefore shall return to my subject. I think the advantages by the proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance.
For first, as I have already observed, it would greatly lessen the number of papists, with whom we are yearly overrun, being the principal breeders of the nation as well as our most dangerous enemies; and who stay at home on purpose with a design to deliver the kingdom to the Pretender, hoping to take their advantage by the absence of so many good protestants, who have chosen rather to leave their country than stay at home and pay tithes against their conscience to an episcopal curate.
Secondly, The poorer tenants will have something valuable of their own, which by law may be made liable to distress and help to pay their landlord's rent, their corn and cattle being already seized, and money a thing unknown.
Thirdly, Whereas the maintenance of an hundred thousand children, from two years old and upward, cannot be computed at less than ten shillings a-piece per annum, the nation's stock will be thereby increased fifty thousand pounds per annum, beside the profit of a new dish introduced to the tables of all gentlemen of fortune in the kingdom who have any refinement in taste. And the money will circulate among ourselves, the goods being entirely of our own growth and manufacture.
Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year.
Fifthly, This food would likewise bring great custom to taverns; where the vintners will certainly be so prudent as to procure the best receipts for dressing it to perfection, and consequently have their houses frequented by all the fine gentlemen, who justly value themselves upon their knowledge in good eating: and a skilful cook, who understands how to oblige his guests, will contrive to make it as expensive as they please.
Sixthly, This would be a great inducement to marriage, which all wise nations have either encouraged by rewards or enforced by laws and penalties. It would increase the care and tenderness of mothers toward their children, when they were sure of a settlement for life to the poor babes, provided in some sort by the public, to their annual profit instead of expense. We should see an honest emulation among the married women, which of them could bring the fattest child to the market. Men would become as fond of their wives during the time of their pregnancy as they are now of their mares in foal, their cows in calf, their sows when they are ready to farrow; nor offer to beat or kick them (as is too frequent a practice) for fear of a miscarriage.
Many other advantages might be enumerated. For instance, the addition of some thousand carcasses in our exportation of barreled beef, the propagation of swine's flesh, and improvement in the art of making good bacon, so much wanted among us by the great destruction of pigs, too frequent at our tables; which are no way comparable in taste or magnificence to a well-grown, fat, yearling child, which roasted whole will make a considerable figure at a lord mayor's feast or any other public entertainment. But this and many others I omit, being studious of brevity.
Supposing that one thousand families in this city, would be constant customers for infants flesh, besides others who might have it at merry meetings, particularly at weddings and christenings, I compute that Dublin would take off annually about twenty thousand carcasses; and the rest of the kingdom (where probably they will be sold somewhat cheaper) the remaining eighty thousand.
I can think of no one objection, that will possibly be raised against this proposal, unless it should be urged, that the number of people will be thereby much lessened in the kingdom. This I freely own, and 'twas indeed one principal design in offering it to the world. I desire the reader will observe, that I calculate my remedy for this one individual Kingdom of Ireland, and for no other that ever was, is, or, I think, ever can be upon Earth. Therefore let no man talk to me of other expedients: Of taxing our absentees at five shillings a pound: Of using neither cloaths, nor houshold furniture, except what is of our own growth and manufacture: Of utterly rejecting the materials and instruments that promote foreign luxury: Of curing the expensiveness of pride, vanity, idleness, and gaming in our women: Of introducing a vein of parsimony, prudence and temperance: Of learning to love our country, wherein we differ even from Laplanders, and the inhabitants of Topinamboo: Of quitting our animosities and factions, nor acting any longer like the Jews, who were murdering one another at the very moment their city was taken: Of being a little cautious not to sell our country and consciences for nothing: Of teaching landlords to have at least one degree of mercy towards their tenants. Lastly, of putting a spirit of honesty, industry, and skill into our shop-keepers, who, if a resolution could now be taken to buy only our native goods, would immediately unite to cheat and exact upon us in the price, the measure, and the goodness, nor could ever yet be brought to make one fair proposal of just dealing, though often and earnestly invited to it.
Therefore I repeat, let no man talk to me of these and the like expedients, 'till he hath at least some glympse of hope, that there will ever be some hearty and sincere attempt to put them into practice.
But, as to my self, having been wearied out for many years with offering vain, idle, visionary thoughts, and at length utterly despairing of success, I fortunately fell upon this proposal, which, as it is wholly new, so it hath something solid and real, of no expence and little trouble, full in our own power, and whereby we can incur no danger in disobliging England. For this kind of commodity will not bear exportation, and flesh being of too tender a consistence, to admit a long continuance in salt, although perhaps I could name a country, which would be glad to eat up our whole nation without it.
After all, I am not so violently bent upon my own opinion as to reject any offer proposed by wise men, which shall be found equally innocent, cheap, easy, and effectual. But before something of that kind shall be advanced in contradiction to my scheme, and offering a better, I desire the author or authors will be pleased maturely to consider two points. First, as things now stand, how they will be able to find food and raiment for an hundred thousand useless mouths and backs. And secondly, there being a round million of creatures in human figure throughout this kingdom, whose whole subsistence put into a common stock would leave them in debt two millions of pounds sterling, adding those who are beggars by profession to the bulk of farmers, cottagers, and laborers, with their wives and children who are beggars in effect: I desire those politicians who dislike my overture, and may perhaps be so bold as to attempt an answer, that they will first ask the parents of these mortals, whether they would not at this day think it a great happiness to have been sold for food, at a year old in the manner I prescribe, and thereby have avoided such a perpetual scene of misfortunes as they have since gone through by the oppression of landlords, the impossibility of paying rent without money or trade, the want of common sustenance, with neither house nor clothes to cover them from the inclemencies of the weather, and the most inevitable prospect of entailing the like or greater miseries upon their breed for ever.
I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich. I have no children by which I can propose to get a single penny; the youngest being nine years old, and my wife past child-bearing.
The End

reply from: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html
A womb child's response:
News Flash: The abortioneers are talking about us and our womb has had an exponential rise in abortion instruments. With that, has come an increase in anti-child comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As mary jo, and janey stated in the two wombs beside mine, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-choice" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or dismembering us. Those people do exist. Some have been our mothers! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before leaving the abortuary, "I don't believe in parenthood" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to exist in wombs of individuals like that.
What's not okay: sharp, sucking instruments, pulling our limbs out of their sockets, twisting our heads, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We unborn babies can't defend ourselves, in our own wombs. gosh, many of us can't defend ourselves from loved ones. Some lose fingers and toes. Raise your hand ( if you've got one) after "coming out" -- I thought so. Many of you don't!
This increase in sucking us out of our wombs is annoying at best. I might seem ungrateful, but I'm afraid the people out there trying to defend me might need to edit themselves; like they're going to have to be careful of what they say so it's not taken out of context, so they can help "protect" the borthead's feelings, so they don't offend our "mothers". It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the bortheads would leave us the heck alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the persons we are and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tear off our tiny feet? To dishonor the persons we are? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we may someday feel if given the chance.
Heck, if any group of people truly are pro-choice, it's the babies! We're all about being given the choices that they all have come to enjoy and expect -- even take for granted. So how dare anyone try to minimize our experience! How dare anyone try to take our very lives away from us! Really. Who the h-e- double toothpicks do you think you are?!
This womb is for not just us who are carried here. It's for all of you, too. My Father, my aunts and uncles and cousins. My future next door neighbor, the little girl who will sit next to me in second grade and smile at me because I was the only one who was nice to her. We know how isolating and hard the life of a parent can be. We know that you had dreams that you fought for that might be delayed for weeks, years, even forever. But don't I get a chance to even make some dreams of my own? Don't I get the chance to try to reach a goal. That is all that we want. Just a chance to try and fail and reach and fall and get back up again. That is life. That is what it is all about. Not getting everything we want exactly when we want it, but just to live. Just to try. To fail AND to succeed. We know that when you go home, that you want to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, when all they will want is to hear about mine. Try focusing on someone else besides yourself for a minute. You just MIGHT realize that you've been missing something worth seeing. You know just a little touch of your hand, a little song now and then from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "I love you baby, whoever you will be." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little "I love you."
Think about that last "I love you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "I love you" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: wake up. wake up. wake up. What a profound, beautiful difference you can make if you will just Wake up. You're killing children.

reply from: nancyu

You're killing children.

reply from: nancyu

First read this:
http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/2009/10/news-flash.html
A womb child's response:
News Flash: The abortioneers are talking about us and our womb has had an exponential rise in abortion instruments. With that, has come an increase in anti-child comments; some of which have appeared to be intelligent, others just hateful.
As mary jo, and janey stated in the two wombs beside mine, we are happy to have open, genuine discussions with self-proclaimed "pro-choice" individuals who have no intent of "trickery" or dismembering us. Those people do exist. Some have been our mothers! (We all have heard many, many women say, just before leaving the abortuary, "I don't believe in parenthood" only to be followed with, "but in my situation...") We welcome the rare opportunity to exist in wombs of individuals like that.
What's not okay: sharp, sucking instruments, pulling our limbs out of their sockets, twisting our heads, and bringing yucky negativity our way. This is our haven. Our safe place. We unborn babies can't defend ourselves, in our own wombs. gosh, many of us can't defend ourselves from loved ones. Some lose fingers and toes. Raise your hand ( if you've got one) after "coming out" -- I thought so. Many of you don't!
This increase in sucking us out of our wombs is annoying at best. I might seem ungrateful, but I'm afraid the people out there trying to defend me might need to edit themselves; like they're going to have to be careful of what they say so it's not taken out of context, so they can help "protect" the borthead's feelings, so they don't offend our "mothers". It makes me uncomfortable I feel this way. I just wish the bortheads would leave us the heck alone. We don't need to be hassled by people who don't care about the persons we are and won't EVER get it. Their rhetoric and picking is a violation. How dare they come here? How dare they think it's okay to tear off our tiny feet? To dishonor the persons we are? To disrespect the compassion, the love, the angst that we may someday feel if given the chance.
Heck, if any group of people truly are pro-choice, it's the babies! We're all about being given the choices that they all have come to enjoy and expect -- even take for granted. So how dare anyone try to minimize our experience! How dare anyone try to take our very lives away from us! Really. Who the h-e- double toothpicks do you think you are?!
This womb is for not just us who are carried here. It's for all of you, too. My Father, my aunts and uncles and cousins. My future next door neighbor, the little girl who will sit next to me in second grade and smile at me because I was the only one who was nice to her. We know how isolating and hard the life of a parent can be. We know that you had dreams that you fought for that might be delayed for weeks, years, even forever. But don't I get a chance to even make some dreams of my own? Don't I get the chance to try to reach a goal. That is all that we want. Just a chance to try and fail and reach and fall and get back up again. That is life. That is what it is all about. Not getting everything we want exactly when we want it, but just to live. Just to try. To fail AND to succeed. We know that when you go home, that you want to tell your partner/friends/parents/pet/whatever about your day, when all they will want is to hear about mine. Try focusing on someone else besides yourself for a minute. You just MIGHT realize that you've been missing something worth seeing. You know just a little touch of your hand, a little song now and then from a woman who ever-so-gently says, "I love you baby, whoever you will be." Ohhhh, does that hit the spot. Warm milk in the belly, that is. Warm milk in the belly. Just a simple, little "I love you."
Think about that last "I love you" you got. Are you smiling now? Remembering what that genuine "I love you" feels like, right? Let's end on that note then. Because seriously: that is all that matters. That's why we're here. And, to all you out there in Abortionland: wake up. wake up. wake up. What a profound, beautiful difference you can make if you will just Wake up.
You're killing children.

reply from: nancyu

http://abortioneers.blogspot.com/
Hmm, they say Ted Bundy was "nice" too.

reply from: invextigator

It's like their theory that abortion can be made illegal simply by refusing to believe it is legal and continually denying reality and saying it is illegal. They think denial can change reality, that if we all keep saying abortion is not legal, that will change the legal status of abortion.
They think repeating something enough times can make it true, or at least that it can make everyone believe it's true. Since they do not appear to be mentally retarded, I must assume they understand abortion is legal, but perhaps they believe it doesn't matter whether it's actually illegal or not, only whether people can be convinced (or convince themselves) that it is.
I don't understand what this is intended to accomplish, since only the people who want abortion to be illegal are willing to deny reality in this way, and these denials do not affect the legality for those who refuse to deny reality. There's no point to this that I can see.
Apparently that doesn't stop some people from trying, and they apply the same logic to all their arguments it would seem, apparently having convinced themselves that if you say it enough times, it can become true, or at least appear to be.
Having the last word seems to be given unreasonable significance as well, the implication being that, if the other person is willing to play this game of internet "no, u," whomever is last to repeat him/herself wins.

reply from: invextigator

EVERYONE, REPOST THIS AS MANY TIMES AS POSSIBLE! REPEATING IT MAKES IT MORE SIGNIFICANT!

reply from: Banned Member

Vexfreak, if this topic were not relevent, you would not be posting here. You're intimate connection with Spinwiddy is also known to this forum. The two of you show up like an object and it's shadow beneath the same foul light. You both have a vested interest in abortion and the abortion industry. A soldier does not defend won ground. The truth is, you feel threatened because abortion is an unsettled question. Unsettled questions do not go away.

reply from: Banned Member

http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/about-us/

reply from: Spinwubby

What does Spinwiddy know about this website?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Congratulations Auggie!
You've just graduated from ignorance and naivete to clinical paranoia!
You're sure to enjoy the whiz-bang pharmacology that comes with your condition.

reply from: Banned Member

If you don't know of these sites Spinwiddy you know of their kind. You're not here on this site for any kind of passive diversion. You are a hardened pro-abortion hack. You supported the Obama campaign and have a history with Planned Parenthood and other pro-abortion groups. You have a genuine interest in the continued legality of abortion in America.

reply from: Spinwubby

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
If I were all that interested in broadcasting a message, I'd probably find a site with more than a dozen regulars and another dozen part-timers.
My fundraising and political activities actually concern 1) The Democratic Party. 2) Animal causes. ...And a distant third - 3) Reproductive rights.
No one here - yourself included - really makes any differences or sacrifices to "the cause."

reply from: Banned Member

No one here makes a difference. And you know this how? Why don't you for a change extract your head from your rectum and look about the world. The world isn't about Spinwiddy.
I have many people that read what I write, even if you don't. You are pathetic.

reply from: Spinwubby

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No, you're a pompous little man.
If you were ever a success at anything, we'd have to hear about it endlessly.
No one reads your crap.

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No, you're a pompous little man.
If you were ever a success at anything, we'd have to hear about it endlessly.
No one reads your crap.
I sense that you are angry? Are you angry? Maybe jealous? In any other venue you would be banned. What I do is not about me. It would be hard for you to understand that however, because everything is about you isn't it? That's why you are a perfect supporter of abortion. My, my, my, me, me , me.... it's all the same. The self love society. The self love generation. Even love for you is about how much you are loved rather than how much you love. Take a look around you woman. The world has other people in it Spinwiddy and many of them are not like you. More than half of them in this country are not like you. Support for abortion is waning. The world that made Roe V Wade is getting old and dying off. You've outlived your baby killing designs. You're obsolete. Your day has come and gone.

reply from: Spinwubby

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
I love the way you try to push a generational difference when there's less than nine years difference in our ages. We are closer to being siblings than we are parent and child. (So you're all into those Lila and Gingi chicks - all creepy middle-aged guys who can't get any drool over girls half their age...)

reply from: nancyu

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No, you're a pompous little man.
If you were ever a success at anything, we'd have to hear about it endlessly.
No one reads your crap.
Oh dear, I worry when I start to agree with spinwiddy, but I digress...

reply from: RustyShackleford

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
If I were all that interested in broadcasting a message, I'd probably find a site with more than a dozen regulars and another dozen part-timers.
My fundraising and political activities actually concern 1) The Democratic Party. 2) Animal causes. ...And a distant third - 3) Reproductive rights.
No one here - yourself included - really makes any differences or sacrifices to "the cause."
I disagree. A poster on this forum once actively participated in the great Texas Girl Scout cookie boycott.

reply from: Shenanigans

Well,excessive cookie consumption is a risk factor in developing diabetes.

reply from: RalphPootawn

It was about a link to breast cancer or something. I heard one of your forum members just got caught with pictures of Girl Scouts on his hard drive.

reply from: LexIcon

Beware of anything made with partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, and unfortunately, Girl Scout cookies are not 100% free of this artery clogging sludge. See: http://www.forkandbottle.com/rants/food/girlscout_cookies.htm

reply from: Banned Member

This forum sucks balls

reply from: Banned Member

This forum sucks balls

reply from: VivisMom

I know I'm a little late to this party, but the stupid in this post is really too much to pass up.
Margaret Sanger, the founder of PPOA, was a racist. Her goal with promoting abortion was to eradicate people of color. Seriously, Google it. That's not warping history, that's a fact-and one that too many anti-lifers like to pretend doesn't exist. How do you reconcile your belief that abortion is a right with the practice of eugenics-the reason your "choice" was ever put on the table? The money you give to PPOA directly aids them in creating a society where minorities are killed. You might as well join the KKK, because at least they are up front about their beliefs and don't hide behind the bullsh!t rhetoric of "choice."
As for your completely idiotic statement about embryos wanting to be born...that's their natural end. I think it was Aristotle (although I could be wrong) who said that the natural end of an organism is good, and whatever prevents the organism from reaching its natural end is bad. Abortion prevents the organism (in this case, the unborn child) from reaching its natural end (life), and should therefore be considered bad.
I have a question for you: why should any fetus have any regard for the situation of the person they are dependent on? The woman who chooses to abort obviously has no regard for the life they are killing. Your argument is fundamentally flawed, illogical, and ridiculous to the point of being laughable. Before you go off berating pro-life people for poor arguments, perhaps you ought to stop and look at your own?

reply from: LexIcon

Welcome to the party, VivisMom!
We have all sorts of folks here, some who prefer to use foul and intemperate language, and others who are the models of courtesy in discourse. Sometimes their arguments make brilliantly good sense, and sometimes they are mind numbingly incoherent, even stoopid, but you'll have that.
The thing is, enjoy your visit(s)!

reply from: Spinwubby

Originally posted by: VivisMom
Margaret Sanger, the founder of PPOA, was a racist. Her goal with promoting abortion was to eradicate people of color.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Margaret Sanger HATED abortion, and never promoted it.
Why don't you come back when you've got a clue?

reply from: LexIcon

VivisMom,
This is an example of an argument that makes brilliantly good sense. Spinwubby is exactly right. Margaret Sanger HATED abortion, even as she labored to limit the births of so-called "human weeds" through the promotion of artificial means of birth control.
Distinctions like this MATTER GREATLY.
Now you know.

reply from: joueravecfous

They only seem to matter when people are so insistent that an opinion from one woman almost 100 years ago that was common among others of that time matters at all in today's world. If you cared about abortion as much as you want to besmirch Sanger, then the 700,000+ abortions each year being done by OTHER providers would seem to be of more importance.

reply from: LexIcon

Well then, why don't YOU handle tearing down Planned Parenthood and I'll deal with the NAF abortioneers, that is, if you even want to slow the pace of the ongoing abortion holocaust that Margaret Sanger inadvertently helped to initiate.

reply from: nancyu

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
http://library.lifedynamics.com/Family%20Limitation/Family%20Limitation.pdf
"HATED" them wubby? Really? You and I definitely have different definitions of the word "hate" cause this doesn't sound like hatred of abortion to me:
"...If a woman will give herself attention BEFORE
the menstrual period arrives, she will almost never
have any trouble, but if she neglects herself and waits
to see if she "comes around," she is likely to have
difficulty
It takes quinine from four to six days to bring
about the desired results, and if one finds a longer
time has elapsed and the flow is not brought on, then
the only remedy is an abortion When once one has
been convinced that an abortion is necessary, do not
indulge in medicines of any kind They only weaken
the system, and require a much greater length of
time to recuperate Never allow a pregnancy to run
over a month
If you are going to have an abortion, make up your
mind to it in the first stages, and have it done On
the other hand, there is often a feeling of the strongest
desire to continue with the pregnancy It is for
- each woman to decide this for herself, but act at once,
whichever way you decide..."

reply from: xnavy

i hope everyone had a great memorial day holiday.

reply from: nancyu

I did thanks I hope you did, too, and all.

reply from: TreeHuggerzRule

Thanks. I did, I spent part of it helping out some veterans. How was yours?

reply from: Banned Member

Everyone else is trying to ignore you too.


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