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THE MOVEMENT FAITHMAN WANTS TO LINK THE ANTIABORTION CAUSE WITH

they think aging and death can & should be prevented

by: siri

So in his posts to me/us Faithman has asserted that overpopulation is a myth but never stated where he got that opinion from. I assumed it was the Christian bible: "go forth and multiply" and consequences be damned, etc.
But apparently it is creepier and more fantastic than this. As you may have seen at the end of the thread "For those who said abortion is safer than gestation" Faithman posts a link to a website called fightaging.org.
That's right: aging is something to be fought.
I urge all who have not seen this horrifying site to read what some of the people are posting there. Here are some direct quotes:
--"when people are cured of aging"
--advocating "the ability to synthetically make food" (i.e. the plants and animals which are currently being poisoned and abused in the present will, in the future, simply not exist)
--we can and should "live for 1000 yrs"
--"dinosaurs will come back as animals for us to ride in space, close to Saturn" (this is posted by a woman named 'Jello Mother'). And the reply (by a person calling themselves 'Triscuit Face'): "Jello Mother is right...the dinosaurs will be our pets. We will use them for transportation, and we will be able to make them survive in space by turning them into cyborgs..baby souls are the key. Once we harvest them, the rest will simply fall into place."
There are other posts by people such as 'Flu Bird' and 'Birdzilla' but I will spare you.
To the left of the posts is a column with links so you can find out about everything from freeze-drying yourself to all the latest nifty painful and invasive things they are doing to animals in laboratories in pursuit of this goal of living forever.
LOL? Yes, and I know many of the people who read/post on this site even among the prolifers have dismissed Faithman long ago because of his desires to commit violence or other reasons.
However, this man is part of a movement, and even if this movement doesn't accomplish many of its goals, it can still do a lot of horrifying things in the attempt.
There is trying to find alternatives to abortion, and then there is MADNESS. Hopefully the former is not motivated by the latter.
I am a prochoicer (which means proabortion under certain circumstances) because I see death as not automatically evil, but rather necessary in keeping the balance of our universe. There are things worse than death...like life without end (or life for 1000 years pardon my lack of making distinctions).
I assume most of you don't want to go as far as this man and the movement he is a part of, but how far do you want to go in the defense of "life"? What are the limits of a "prolife" movement in your opinion? Can "life" ever be turned into a weapon?
Prochoicers your thoughts as well...
I will be laughing, but not laughing cavalierly or with my "nose in the air" as one poster assumed. Rather, I will be laughing in the way one laughs when one needs to keep up hope in the face of great madness/darkness, in the way one laughs when one is up against those who try to make nightmares real.

reply from: faithman

http://www.pro-vita.org/over_population.htm.......http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/nov_2000/pagels.htmhttp://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/nov_2000/pagels.htm..........http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=E58DFF04-5A65-42A4-9F82-87381DE894CD.......http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6927.........http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1107/1107brainwashing.htm .......http://www.jefflindsay.com/Overpop.shtml..... The fact of the matter is, that the over population myth has actually caused great harm to man kind, and is a part of the secular humanist globalist plan for world domination. The prob is the mismanagment of resources, primarily by socialist dictator ships. The kind of socialism this little air head death scanc advocates. she really is quite the useful idiot for the social elets.

reply from: Yuuki

Yes, there are too many people we can feed with our current selfish society, which is what Faithman is saying too. If we could show everyone how to plant good, hearty crops (did you know growing crops gives more nutrient rich, life sustaining food than raising cattle does?) show them electricity-free technologies like solar cookers, and pour forth our love to care for each other, we would not have starvation problems.

reply from: faithman

Exactly right. We also need to import democratic republics. That form of government is the most peacful, and benifisial to mankind. A democracy has never had a war with another democracy. There are democracies that have higher population density than china, but have a much higher standard of living. Over population is a myth. Over socialist governance is the real problem.

reply from: Yuuki

Exactly right. We also need to import democratic republics. That form of government is the most peacful, and benifisial to mankind. A democracy has never had a war with another democracy. There are democracies that have higher population density than china, but have a much higher standard of living. Over population is a myth. Over socialist governance is the real problem.
I'm not sure I totally understand your use of the word "socialist". Do you mean communist? I was taught that communist governments are geared towards distributing the wealth; would this not be one way to help the poorer people?
I don't agree with communism of course. I believe in giving people who are in need a skill, a job, a talent. It's like the story "if you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will eat for life". Do you agree with that?

reply from: faithman

Exactly right. We also need to import democratic republics. That form of government is the most peacful, and benifisial to mankind. A democracy has never had a war with another democracy. There are democracies that have higher population density than china, but have a much higher standard of living. Over population is a myth. Over socialist governance is the real problem.
I'm not sure I totally understand your use of the word "socialist". Do you mean communist? I was taught that communist governments are geared towards distributing the wealth; would this not be one way to help the poorer people?
I don't agree with communism of course. I believe in giving people who are in need a skill, a job, a talent. It's like the story "if you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will eat for life". Do you agree with that?
communism, and socialism are basicly the same thing. I agree with you 100%. Give people the tools and skills, and the right of self governance, and the people prosper. That is what made america great, and that is what the rest of the world wishes it had. Even with all our troubles, people still risk life and limb to get here. All one has to do, is visit our niebors south of the border to see how good we have it. It is a shame that we are currently abandoning our liberty for the socialism being forced on us by the criminal elect.

reply from: Yuuki

I just recently learned a fact about how many children are starving to death in America and I was horrified. I can't help but thinking that we shouldn't be spending so many resources out to the world when we have such a problem here at home.

reply from: faithman

I would be careful to check out the source. I don't think that anyone is starving to death in America. Food is just way to availiable. It would have to be a self imposed starvation. Please provide a link to what you are saying. And if you know of anyone going hungry, just refur them to any number of kind folks and programs to address that issue. Sounds like another scare tactic to me.

reply from: Yuuki

I would be careful to check out the source. I don't think that anyone is starving to death in America. Food is just way to availiable. It would have to be a self imposed starvation. Please provide a link to what you are saying. And if you know of anyone going hungry, just refur them to any number of kind folks and programs to address that issue. Sounds like another scare tactic to me.
Oh yes, many children are dying. I will have to look back through the handouts I have; tonight perhaps, but not right now since there are about 200 pages of it. I see poverty all around me here in Florida; it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to see how some of these children's families could be tipped over the edge, especially in rural areas that do not have the resources urban areas have.

reply from: faithman

I would be careful to check out the source. I don't think that anyone is starving to death in America. Food is just way to availiable. It would have to be a self imposed starvation. Please provide a link to what you are saying. And if you know of anyone going hungry, just refur them to any number of kind folks and programs to address that issue. Sounds like another scare tactic to me.
Oh yes, many children are dying. I will have to look back through the handouts I have; tonight perhaps, but not right now since there are about 200 pages of it. I see poverty all around me here in Florida; it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to see how some of these children's families could be tipped over the edge, especially in rural areas that do not have the resources urban areas have.
I never said that folks weren't in poverty. I just call into question the starving to death statement. Many on the government dole seem to be morbidly obease. I find it hard to believe that people are starving to death, with a government SSSSSSOOOOO ready to hand out free food.

reply from: Yuuki

Like I said, I'll have to find the source. But I feel like from my (true, limited) experience that it's completely possible.

reply from: faithman

And death pukes like you never had any!!

reply from: Yuuki

And you are fueling his rude behavior while supplying your own. What's your point?

reply from: faithman

And death pukes like you never had any!!
I would challenge you to a psychiatric evaluation any day. Just say when and where.
Let death punks have a say in my life? Forget it! Crawl back into your primortial ooze borthead creep.

reply from: faithman

And death pukes like you never had any!!
I would challenge you to a psychiatric evaluation any day. Just say when and where.
Let death punks have a say in my life? Forget it! Crawl back into your primortial ooze borthead creep.
So that's your way of saying you decline a psych evaluation. I cannot imagine why fruit loop.
I don't need one. If you think it would help your miscreant behind, by all means!! Sign right up. But me thinks your condition is beyond help.

reply from: faithman

And death pukes like you never had any!!
I would challenge you to a psychiatric evaluation any day. Just say when and where.
Let death punks have a say in my life? Forget it! Crawl back into your primortial ooze borthead creep.
So that's your way of saying you decline a psych evaluation. I cannot imagine why fruit loop.
I don't need one. If you think it would help your miscreant behind, by all means!! Sign right up. But me thinks your condition is beyond help.
What might your education and credentials be in psychiatry? This should be good.
Couple courses in collage.

reply from: Yuuki

And you are fueling his rude behavior while supplying your own. What's your point?
I'm just finding it amusing.
I do not. There is too much anger posted on this forum already.

reply from: faithman

And you are fueling his rude behavior while supplying your own. What's your point?
I'm just finding it amusing.
I do not. There is too much anger posted on this forum already.
http://www.lifeissues.org/windows.html

reply from: faithman

And death pukes like you never had any!!
I would challenge you to a psychiatric evaluation any day. Just say when and where.
Let death punks have a say in my life? Forget it! Crawl back into your primortial ooze borthead creep.
So that's your way of saying you decline a psych evaluation. I cannot imagine why fruit loop.
I don't need one. If you think it would help your miscreant behind, by all means!! Sign right up. But me thinks your condition is beyond help.
What might your education and credentials be in psychiatry? This should be good.
Couple courses in collage.
A couple courses does not equal a degree Caveman.
Who said it did death puke borthead.

reply from: Yuuki

It's better than most people get.

reply from: Yuuki

That may be, but someone who is not licensed to do so should not throw out a diagnosis.
I do not understand your metaphor. Faithman is not diagnosing anyone.

reply from: Yuuki

Actually, you were the first one who said he had a few screws loose, which as you know is a statement on his mental state. So if anyone is claiming to be a psych expert, it is you.

reply from: faithman

Actually, you were the first one who said he had a few screws loose, which as you know is a statement on his mental state. So if anyone is claiming to be a psych expert, it is you.
Don't confuse the poor dear with the truth.

reply from: Yuuki

Actually, you were the first one who said he had a few screws loose, which as you know is a statement on his mental state. So if anyone is claiming to be a psych expert, it is you.
Don't confuse the poor dear with the truth.
I'm really trying not to, but it's rather difficult!

reply from: faithman

Actually, you were the first one who said he had a few screws loose, which as you know is a statement on his mental state. So if anyone is claiming to be a psych expert, it is you.
Don't confuse the poor dear with the truth.
I'm really trying not to, but it's rather difficult!
Quite right!!! Truth tends to confuse them automaticly!!! Or maybe it is just that they try to confuse the truth with their lies? Either way, they seem immune to it.

reply from: Yuuki

They believe in what they say. And what we propose is quite horrifying. Why would anyone want to believe it!?

reply from: Banned Member

Overpopulation is a myth. What evidence would you have that overpopulation is not a myth? Global warming/climate change is also a myth I might add.
Starving wherever it has occurred in the world has been the result of mismanagement of resources or the deliberat holding back of aid to people in need. People starve because other people allow them to starve. People go without, because other people allow them to go without.
If people go hungry in America it is because a) they are either too lazy to work for a living or b) they not aware of the resources available to them. America has people that are either addicted to drugs or they are suffering undiagnosed mental health issues which prevent them from caring for themselves. Mental health care in America is another whole discussion itself.
Too few good leaders in the world? Yes.
Mismanagement of resources and wealth in the world? Yes.
Too many corrupt indivuduals and governments indifferent to the plight of some people? Yes.
But too many people in the world? No!

reply from: Yuuki

Global warming is not a myth. Our climate is changing. Call it climate change if you like. However, the very rocks of our planet prove that its climate goes through cycles. We are long overdue for an ice age. Commonly before ice ages, the earth heats up. Whether or not humans have affected this cycle is up for debate. The fact that it is happening, however, is not up for debate.

reply from: Banned Member

The climate does change and has always changed, long before mankind existed in the numbers or possessed the technology which supposedly effects that climate change in any great way. Radical evironmentalism is little other than another human hating soap box which the same people stand on who claim abortion is a right. I am all for responsible use of resources, clean air technology, responsible conservation.
But if you want to tax cows passing gas, I think that you probably need to have your head examined by a professional.

reply from: Yuuki

I just said above that human involvement in the climate's change is up for debate. Please, go read it.

reply from: Banned Member

But if you want to tax cows passing gas, I think that you/anyone probably need to have your head examined by a professional.
The remark was not addressed to a specific individual. Just in general.

reply from: Yuuki

Then you probably shouldn't have used the word "you", since in a conversation it usually refers to the person you are talking to. I accept your explanation however, and agree that nutty tree-huggers need their heads examined.

reply from: siri

NEW VOICES PLEASE. A LOT OF YOU ARE NOT POSTING
Faithman is saying a lot more than that. Please go to the link he posted, fightaging.org. They are talking about trying to purposely increase the number of people on earth to tens of billions or more, trying to expand our lifespan to 1000 years, trying to freeze dry people, and doing invasive painful deadly things to animals in researching this goal. He clearly sees stopping abortion as linked to much "greater" (gallows humor intended) things.
I like all your suggestions but yes we will (and do) have starvation problems as a result of overpopulation. As a socialist, I am very pro-sharing but the planet is not getting bigger, it will not sustain an infinite number of people. I love it too much to leave it for another one, and even if we were to do that, we would ruin that one too if we did what we are doing now. And Yuuki why are "tree huggers" (your term) nutty? I could call you a fetus hugger, because you are trying to save some fetuses. Environmentalists are trying to save THE ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM on which ALL LIFE DEPENDS. Considering that our ecosystem is collapsing at the rate of 100 species a day (yes I will keep quoting that statistic until someone responds to it), I really can't imagine how any action to save the earth would be too radical.
I can't believe no one has responded to the quotes I posted, they are insane. Back and forth repartee about some poster named ProLifersrLosers has nothing to do with my thread. No one has responded to the question which was the reason for the thread: can life become a weapon? Should there be limits to life? Do folks here see their antiabortion activism as part of a larger goal to live indefinitely and expand infinitely, or are you just trying to stop those who have been conceived and are unborn from being destroyed? I don't support either goal, but one is a small bad idea and one is an insanity.
It's not really worth my time arguing the facts with people such as Faithman and Augustine who are so willingy ignorant. However, I know there are intelligent people out there who post on this site, and who have been reading but not posting and I would like some comment on my original post and for people to go to the website fightaging.org and give their thoughts.
Although the "debate" about overpopulation is crucially important (as in, it's important to end it) I am talking about much more than this, I am talking about a movement to try to deny death and aging.

reply from: Yuuki

I am not a socialist. I don't know what philosophy I fit best into. but I believe people should work hard, and be rewarded for their work. I believe people who can't afford things like food are people who need to be "taught to fish", not just given hand outs from hard workers. I think our welfare system needs revamped so people can't depend on it for years at a time.
I said nutty tree huggers in the same sense I say extremist pro-lifers. There are tree huggers, and then there are NUTTY tree huggers. I'm a bit of a tree hugger myself, but not a nutty one by any standard.
Life is not a weapon. There should not be limits to life. I do not believe in living forever, but conversely I do not believe in purposely killing each other or seeking death via suicide and euthanasia. The meaning of life is to LIVE your life to its fullest extent, and die when it is time. I don't have a problem with medicine saving lives, but I do have a problem with keeping brain dead people alive on machines. Yes, I am simply trying to prevent ANY person from being killed by another.

reply from: carolemarie

you can care for the environment and be opposed to abortion.
I am all for saving the planet, would love to see incentives to reduce our carbon footprints. Just like prochoicers,prolifers have many different views on the issues of the day.

reply from: nancyu

NEW VOICES PLEASE. A LOT OF YOU ARE NOT POSTING
Got a new voice for you, right http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

reply from: faithman

NEW VOICES PLEASE. A LOT OF YOU ARE NOT POSTING
Got a new voice for you, right http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare
snicker

reply from: siri

WOW, Really mature! (But come on...isn't it mean to talk about yourselves that way? Back away from the mirror and do something nice for yourself instead of projecting your self-loathing).

reply from: Shenanigans

How to solve the world's problems:
Feed the homeless to the hungry.

reply from: Shenanigans

So Faithman posts links to some funny websites.
Do you have some evidence or quote that proves he supports all those 1,000 year old no plant eating people?
I mean, if I link to Fox or CNN doesn't mean I believe in everything they support.
And seriously, stop throwing up strawmen, abortion is killing a human life, we don't have the moral right to kill human beings, abortion is ALWAYS wrong. Over population is a myth, global warming is a joke, if polar bears can't hack it, then all it does is proves Darwin's theory.

reply from: Darkmoon

Nobody could accuse me of being a big fan of "Faithman" but I think this is a radical interpretation of the text. Aside from the abortion issue I'm also an animal rights activist. That doesn't mean I support PETA or their extreme BS. I support sensible population control but that doesn't mean I support mandatory abortion or sterilization. I can't believe I'm defending someone that expresses such blatant hatred for women but as far as I've seen, F-man hasn't advocated any of the alleged protocols.
Let's not sink to the level of character assassination. Some people do a fine enough job of that on their own without the need for interference.

reply from: kd78

the world is full of food. however, much of it is wasted and not distributed properly. we've got food eating contests in here america while there are kids going to bed hungry every night in this same country. you've got warlords and dictators using food to control the people.
there is also tons of space for people. the main problem is density in many areas. nyc has like 8 million people, but dc, alaska, south dakota, vermont, and wyoming all had less than 800,000 people in 2006.

reply from: faithman

Ain't it funny how the socialist are the ones crying the loudest about over population, when it is socialist police states that treat their citizens the worst? America alone throws away enough food to feed the rest of the world. If we were to load up a carrier with food, and ship it out, many a hungry folk could have plenty to eat. But the prob is that much of what we send to other countries, rots on the docks because of red tape. Either that, or the criminals that run government keep it for themselves, and let the people starve.

reply from: sander

Ain't it funny how the socialist are the ones crying the loudest about over population, when it is socialist police states that treat their citizens the worst? America alone throws away enough food to feed the rest of the world. If we were to load up a carrier with food, and ship it out, many a hungry folk could have plenty to eat. But the prob is that much of what we send to other countries, rots on the docks because of red tape. Either that, or the criminals that run government keep it for themselves, and let the people starve.
You're just talking facts and sense. That doesn't compute with the worldview of the leftists. They have to keep the world fearing the worst so they can gain as much control as possible and the leftist sheeple just follow along.

reply from: siri

Shenanigans--Do I have some evidence that Faithman supports the goals of the movement that is represented on that website--I would say when someone posts a link to a website that is that insane, that the burden is on them to disavow the insanity and be careful to say "I posted a link only for x part of that website."
Overpopulation is no myth. Polar bears are going extinct because of us and no other reason. That's like saying that because we committed genocide against the Native Americans that they "couldn't hack it."
I'm not throwing up strawmen. Some of you genuinely believe that there is some sort of eugenic plot behind the prochoice movement. Similarly, I am starting to see that there are some darker motives behind the prolife movement than just concern for fetuses. It's part of some larger fundamentalist Christian "let's overrun the earth and dominate all other life forms." As you just demonstrated with your callous polar bear comment.

reply from: siri

Darkmoon--I agree that Faithman doesn't need a lot of help in assassinating his character but the point of my thread was to elicit people's feedback on a movement.
It seems this thread is turning into a discussion of overpopulation in general when I wanted to discuss something more particular: the movement to deny death & aging & if people see their antiabortion activism as part of that larger goal. In other words is it just a question of "here are some individual unborn lives that should be saved because we began them and we might as well let them continue" or is the goal bigger: "prolife" as in life over death, let's deny death.
I don't know what you find extreme about PETA, I support the Animal Liberation Front so we would probably disagree there...anyway back to the thread, although I don't have much hope for this thread anymore.
Thanks for responding.

reply from: nancyu

**sigh**sigh**sigh**sigh**sigh**
siri, I adressed every single one of your questions and you simply ignored my response! How frustrating!!
I'll reiterate:
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

reply from: faithman

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11656

reply from: faithman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAC4kfHruQ

reply from: Shenanigans

This is what pisses me off. We have garages, buildings that are warm and dry and we park our cars in them, mean while there are people on this planet who will sleep tonight in the dirt under the sky and it will be far from romantic or exciting.
We throw away so much food and drink water from bottles we spend too much money for when we can get it out of a tap, it takes 5Ls of water to make a 1L bottle of water!!
We go to the fridge and complain there's "nothing to eat" when its stocked with meats, salads, pies, whatever and we have pantries full of canned goods, yet in so many countries people truly do have nothing.
We complain about private schools being to expensive and public schools being too crowded when there are kids who can't even read or write and will never attend school.
When people get on the "over populated" bandwagon they are disrespecting the suffering of those who really suffer from the gluttony of the West.
If, as a society, we want to "fix" this "problem" we need to look at our own lives and our own consumption and then demand govt. that will assist in evening up the stakes for all to benefit from what this world produces.
When people talk about eugenics or abortion or over population and they sit in their comfy chairs with their bags of chips and their cakes and beers, they're actually angry that they have to share. If those people were dead they wouldn't have to deal with the concept of sharing what great amount they have.
Its greed. Plain and simple, and those numb nuts should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

reply from: faithman

http://cei.org/gencon/019,05845.cfm

reply from: Shenanigans

If you want to beleive those lies, that's your right.
Global warming is happening not because of us but because its the planet's normal process of cycling through different climate changes. Ten thousand years ago the planet was an iceball, we're still recovering from an ice age. Of course the planet is going to heat up. The polar bear evolved in that time to fit into the niche that the cool planet had for it. Evolution isn't about survival of the fittest, its about survival of the animal most adaptive to change. If polar bears can't cut, tough. But humans aren't invasive enough to the planet to hurry the process up. Its complete and utter crappolla to beleive we're playing a significant role. Sure, we're probably adding a tinsy bit, but a decent sized volcanic eruption, it'll shoot enough soot and CO2 into the atomsphere to out do every factory, human fire and car on the planet combined.
If we all died tomorrow then the planet would continue to warm, if we didn't exist, it'd continue to warm, its what the planet does, its normal, if anything, with a lack of a species that doesn't control tree population there'd be an overgrowth of plant life that creates O2 which would eventually cause some ripper fires.
The planet's systems and environemnt is a lot more complex then "oh, humans make cars and cars make soot and soot is bad so humans are bad".
Yes. Because shooting women and children and generally just selling them blankets infested with small pox is exactly like the planet cycling through different stages of metrological development.
I concern myself with humanity. From conception to natural death. We have a great deal of resources available to us but its not being used wisely beause America and many other govts are corrupt and people are either too lazy, too apathetic, or just as greedy to try and change it.
I want to see the unborn human granted full rights of personhood. I want to see women given all the help and assistance they need. I want to see women treated with the same dignity and respect that all human beings should have.
I especially concern myself with the plight of women in countries where it's perfectly legal to splash a bottle of acid on their faces.
I'm not a fundamentalist Christain. I'm Catholic. I also happen to beleive in evolution and common sense.
I have no wish to over run the earth, my concern is with the respect for the sancity of human life, and with the right to life for all humans from conception till natural death. I don't beleive in people spawning for the sake of spawning. I don't beleive in BC, I beleive in common sense and self discipline and people need to take responsibility for their damn actions.
The entire planet is an evolving, growing entity. Every animal and organism on this rock has a role to play and removing any part of that could prove detrimental to us. The environment will change with the cycling of the planet through time, once Polar bears are gone because they cannot deal with the increase in temp, then another animal will evolve, or PBs will evolve to fit into the gap created.
The peppered moth theory is proof of this. The moths simply expressed a different gene dependant on the colouring of the trees on which they lived, the moths were never wiped out and continued, despite the change in the environment and their trees around them.
The planet is our farm. You don't plow the place then salt the earth, it does no good. This is something we must pass down to our children and grandchildren. I don't advocate the killing of our grandchildren for our own greedy purposes. The world is not overpopulated. The world will continue to warm and we can either flow with it, or die from our sheer laziness.
Humans stopped evolving physically a long time ago because we learnt to alter the environment to suit us, we were no longer subject to the cold because we discovered fire, created clothing and built shelter. We will not be subject to the heat because we have air con and fans and shelter. The planet is warming gradually enough that evolution will take under its wing plant and animal life.
You have to remember, weather records are only about 150 years old. They didn't know how hot it was exactly ten thousand years ago. You can't say the world is over heating when you don't know how hot it was too start with.
I advocate responsiblity. I advocate education and common sense. I don't take kindly to uneducated whelps fear mongering or pushing an agenda that is disrespectful to human life. Go do some real reading then come back when you learnt a thing or two about how the planet really works.

reply from: Shenanigans

This I find odd.
You think there's too many people, but you want to free all the animals? Where are all those farm cows and their children going to go when we all stop eating meat? Where is all the land going to come from for our crops if the cows are eating it and we're not eating the cows?
And any organisation that compares battery hens to the Holocaust are a bunch of idiots.
I did not climb to the top of the food chain to eat rabbit food.

reply from: Shenanigans

I"m starting to think Siri has some kind of brain injury.

reply from: yoda

It's that injury to his/her heart that concerns me most. A thousand suns couldn't warm it up.

reply from: siri

"If you want to beleive those lies, that's your right."
Ditto.
"Global warming is happening not because of us but because its the planet's normal process of cycling through different climate changes... But humans aren't invasive enough to the planet to hurry the process up. Its complete and utter crappolla to beleive we're playing a significant role. Sure, we're probably adding a tinsy bit..."
The overwhelming consensus of the scientific community disagrees with you. But you knew that. We are adding far more than a "teensy bit". And even in your fantasy scenarios, what if it were teeny? Why would we want to make the problem even a teeny bit worse? Why would we want to cause the oceans to rise, and flood our cities?
"The planet's systems and environemnt is a lot more complex then "oh, humans make cars and cars make soot and soot is bad so humans are bad". "
No one said the environment wasn't complex. And your defensiveness is showing. It's not a question of humans being bad, just irresponsible. And not all of humanity; indigenous people lived lightly on the earth compared to us.
"Yes. Because shooting women and children and generally just selling them blankets infested with small pox is exactly like the planet cycling through different stages of metrological development. "
Well, I guess I should thank the stars that you know atleast some history free of the filters of Catholic dogma.
" We have a great deal of resources available to us but its not being used wisely beause America and many other govts are corrupt and people are either too lazy, too apathetic, or just as greedy to try and change it."
Well, here you make a little sense. Certainly can't argue that we're not using resources wisely or that governments aren't corrupt & greedy. True enough!
" I want to see women treated with the same dignity and respect that all human beings should have.
I especially concern myself with the plight of women in countries where it's perfectly legal to splash a bottle of acid on their faces. "
I can give credit where credit is due, so hear hear.
"I'm not a fundamentalist Christain. I'm Catholic. "
You're a fundamentalist Christian of the Catholic persuasion. You're a fundamentalist Catholic. Big diff.
"I also happen to beleive in evolution..."
Well, congrats! Ummm, yeesh I would hope so!.
"and common sense. "
Sorry, nope.
"I have no wish to over run the earth...
I don't beleive in people spawning for the sake of spawning. I don't beleive in BC..."
YOU DON"T BELIEVE IN BIRTH CONTROL??! Yet have no wish for us to overrun the earth, "don't believe in people spawning for the sake of spawning," and claim to have common sense? You contradict yourself. What if a woman doesn't care to have 12 children in her lifetime (or any? you know some people marry because they enjoy each other's company, with no wish to bring a child into their lives. Are they supposed to have an intercourse-less marriage??!) Discouraging birth control has a very direct correlation with unwanted pregnancies and thus with abortion--duh--so people like yourself are responsible for a lot more abortions than I ever could be.
" Every animal and organism on this rock has a role to play and removing any part of that could prove detrimental to us. "
Umm, yeah, that's why I'm concerned with the fact that 100 SPECIES ARE GOING EXTINCT A DAY. And would that include polar bears? You're arguing against yourself now and not making any sense. But if you had a lucid moment there for a second and understood that we can't afford all these extinctions then I'll take it.
"The environment will change with the cycling of the planet through time, once Polar bears are gone because they cannot deal with the increase in temp, then another animal will evolve, or PBs will evolve to fit into the gap created. "
I could as easily say that once all fetuses conceived by women who don't want them are aborted, other fetuses conceived by women who do want them will come here to "fill that gap." And it wouldn't satisfy you, because every individual and every species is unique. And it takes a long time for new species to evolve. And sorry but I don't care to see half the species on earth go extinct, which is what scientists are projecting. I care about & value them too much.
"The planet is our farm."
The planet is NOT our farm. It is not ours, period. It is here for itself, and it was here before us. It was not made for us. We are allowed to make use of it, along with the other creatures.
"We will not be subject to the heat because we have air con and fans and shelter. "
LOL.Do you know the environmental impact of electricity? All this, our air conditioning and fans etc. come at a cost. And we cannot always be indoors. And of course the wildlife never can. Come now, you are more intelligent than this.
" The planet is warming gradually enough that evolution will take under its wing plant and animal life."
See above.
"You have to remember, weather records are only about 150 years old. They didn't know how hot it was exactly ten thousand years ago. You can't say the world is over heating when you don't know how hot it was too start with."
Scientists have ways of measuring things like this. They do all sorts of things with ancient fossils so this wouldn't be beyond them. Heating up to the point that half of all current species will go extinct--I'd say that's too hot for me if there's anything we can do about it, which there is (although at this late date, we can only limit the damage)
"I advocate responsiblity. I advocate education and common sense. "
Sadly, no no and no. Nothing responsible about not using birth control...nothing educated or commonsensical about your "let's stick our heads in the sand" mentality.
"I don't take kindly to uneducated whelps..."
LOL who's talking? Yeesh.
"fear mongering..."
What you call fearmongering is actually called urging people to wake up and be responsible.
"or pushing an agenda that is disrespectful to human life."
What is disrespectful of human life is creating too much of it, carelessly, and giving more priority to the unborn to the point that the born are robbed of resources.
" Go do some real reading then come back when you learnt a thing or two about how the planet really works."
That is exactly what you need to do!

reply from: sander

Geez, siri, learn to use the darn quote function. Are you that much of an idiot?
You expect us to believe the horse crap you spew here about global warming, over population and such nonsense when you don't have the smarts to even use the quote function. What a joke.

reply from: siri

Much of the above is true, but you can agree with it and still realize that the earth is overpopulated. It's not either/or! The world is not divided between people who 1)are concerned with overpopulation vs. people who 2)are concerned with resource-sharing. Most of the lefties who are concerned with overpopulation are the same lefties who are trying to improve the situation of the people in the 3rd world, and who are also trying to cut consumption in the 'developed' countries.
I am not angry that I have to share. I do a great deal to limit my consumption. I choose to live in a small studio apartment, ride the bus instead of owning a car, buy clothes infrequently and then, buy them used; buy my books used; reduce, reuse and recycle whenever possible. I give money and food to homeless people on a regular basis. And most leftists who are concerned with overpopulation do many of these things as well. If you don't know this, it's because you are not hanging out with leftists and are ignorant of their life choices.
The rightwingers for whom these things are NOT true are not really concerned about overpopulation in general, just immigration. They may very well be unwilling to share.

reply from: sander

Typical leftist garbage, blame those you disagree with, especially when you've got nothing but junk science for back up.
While you're patting yourself on the back for how you live (who cares) you have no qualms about how many babies are killed by abortion every day.
You're a joke, a by word, a nothing until you grow a heart.

reply from: siri

I have stated before that I am computer-challenged in particular. My IQ in general is quite high thank you.
Alas I don't really expect you to believe the facts about overpopulation and global warming (that last being something Yuuki mentioned actually, not me, although she's right). I have largely given up on the trifecta as 4choice put it (Sander Nancy and Faithman)--also some others. These facts are for others, both those who post and the thousands who don't post. The dozen of us might be highly motivated to post, but the majority of those who read here don't post.

reply from: sander

If your IQ is that high, then learn. I doubt it is, but even you can learn how to use the quote function.
You're on a website who thinks of you as an intruder, a form of entertainment and nothing more, so shut the hell up about "trifectas" and such crap.
You're on a PRO-LIFE webiste, the subject here is how to STOP you people from killing any more babies.
Form your own damn website and spare the rest of who have hearts and IQ's your constant droaning. You people really are sickening, just down right awful human beings.

reply from: siri

"This I find odd.
You think there's too many people, but you want to free all the animals? Where are all those farm cows and their children going to go when we all stop eating meat? Where is all the land going to come from for our crops if the cows are eating it and we're not eating the cows?"
I personally can accept (with regrets) farming animals for food, atleast until we evolve further morally. But as long as you brought it up, the fact is that breeding animals for food artificially increases their numbers from what they would be should we release them into the wild. If we released them into the wild, natural predators would bring their numbers down from what they are now. Just like with domesticated cats and dogs: the horrendous numbers of them that are euthanized are due to the fact of our breeding them; when feral cats and dogs breed on their own they don't reach those numbers. It is a far more efficient use of land to raise grain directly than to feed grain to cows and this is also related to the starvation problem by the way.
"And any organisation that compares battery hens to the Holocaust are a bunch of idiots."
See, I could say the same about a prolife movement which compares unborn fetuses dying to the Holocaust on Jews...actually as my stepdad is Jewish, this one offends me a lot.

reply from: sander

Well, my father, his 9 siblings, parents, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. were/are Jewish, which makes me Jewish and the comparison of babies going unwittingly to their deaths does NOT offend me, one bit. I find the comparison fair and just, as one who has actually LOST family members to the Jewish holocuast.
Another point of yours goes down in flames.

reply from: siri

We have lost friends and family members to the Holocaust as well, not that it's a contest...is it a contest?
Actually I agree with Faramir that the "holocaust" comparison is a form of intellectual lazyness which is used far too often.

reply from: sander

You've gone from a stepdad to having lost friends and family members....sure, right, I bet.
No, it's not a contest, moron, I was just illustrating to you that there are Jews who have lost family members who believe this is a horrible holocaust happening to the unborn child.
Well, tough crap what you and fart think.
You're too damn lazy to learn how to use the quote function or form your own website and you talk about lazyness....that's just another joke.

reply from: siri

LOL! No one who knows me or strangers for that matter would agree with you. Most people think I care too much. I care about all life on this planet including, yes, unborn "children." You care about unborn fetuses and....what else? Your heart is far narrower than mine. Please, you're embarassing yourself.
(I'm female).

reply from: sander

LOL! No one who knows me or strangers for that matter would agree with you. Most people think I care too much. I care about all life on this planet including, yes, unborn "children." You care about unborn fetuses and....what else? Your heart is far narrower than mine. Please, you're embarassing yourself.
You couldn't hold a candle to the heart of Yoda if you were given a factory full of 10 foot candles to call your own.
You care about YOURSELF, that's all, nobody else, just YOU, else you would have volunteered to leave the "boat", instead of seeing helpless children go in your stead.
You're just like all the liberal lunatics, all talk.

reply from: siri

QYou've gone from a stepdad to having lost friends and family members....sure, right, I bet.Q
Excuse me? I don't lie. We have lost friends of the family and family members on my stepdad's side of the family. As well as people who are still here but very damaged.
QNo, it's not a contest, moron, I was just illustrating to you that there are Jews who have lost family members who believe this is a horrible holocaust happening to the unborn child.Q
Yes, there are a small minority of Jews that believe all sorts of things.
QYou're too damn lazy to learn how to use the quote function or form your own website and you talk about lazyness....that's just another joke.
It's not laziness, it's called having other priorities in my life. I'm not a prochoice activist thus not sufficiently motivated to have my own website.

reply from: yoda

And yet, you somehow find time to come here and pimp for the other baby killers..... what a sacrifice!

reply from: yoda

Now you've claiming that being Jewish is a racial thing?
Oye.....

reply from: Yuuki

Your mother would have to be Jewish for you to be considered Jewish. If you were actually Jewish, you would have known that.
Technically, but Sander could have converted.

reply from: yoda

Being a Jew is not a racial thing, according to every practicing Jew I have heard discuss it

reply from: Yuuki

Being a Jew is not a racial thing, according to every practicing Jew I have heard discuss it
It can seem "radical" aka "extreme" to some people who are not of the religion. They have a restrictive diet for example. For "freedom" loving Americans, restricting one's diet for any reason other than losing weight is "extreme". I personally find Judaism fascinating, but I currently feel so non-spiritual that I don't think it's a good time to make a dedication to something like that. I think I'm just feeling lost.

reply from: yoda

It can seem "radical" aka "extreme" to some people who are not of the religion..
Read it slower..... I said "racial", not "radical".

reply from: sander

Your mother would have to be Jewish for you to be considered Jewish. If you were actually Jewish, you would have known that.
Was I talking about my mother, you jackass. So, don't tell me what blood runs thru my veins.
Where the hell were you when I was being treated less than human for my Jewishness, where were you when I was ridiculed as a child for "killing Jesus"? Where were you when I was called the "n" word turned inside out?
So, shut your lousy, know nothing trap when it comes to my background.

reply from: sander

Now you've claiming that being Jewish is a racial thing?
Oye.....
That's oy vey iz mir and jouer is such a golem he wouldn't know how to do anything but kvetch and be the nebbish, pisher, putz he is.
You on the other hand, YOU sir, are a mensch!

reply from: siri

joueravecfou--re. one's mother having to be Jewish, different ideas on this now. Traditionally you are right and the Orthodox still determine ethnic Judaism this way, although even the Orthodox allow for religious conversions. But Reform Judaism alllows for descent through the father even without conversion.

reply from: Yuuki

How strict are the reformists about the diet?

reply from: Yuuki

You might follow your own advice here since you know nothing about mine.
True.


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