Home - List All Discussions

Why do we even have a word that means the same thing as "human being"?

It's now 9 to 1 that the terms "human being" and "person" are synonymous

by: yoda

The whole "personhood" thing is like a bad joke. Why do we even have a word that means the same thing as "human being"?
What is the point in having another word that means exactly the same thing as the common term for our species? The only thing I can think of is that it's shorter than "human being", and we are lazy with out language. We could say "human", but somehow over the ages the use of the word "person" came into vogue, and we are stuck with it. But except for the perverse legal usage, it has NO SEPARATE BIOLOGICAL MEANING from the terms "human being" and "Homo sapiens".
However, having multiple words meaning the same thing has certain advantages for those who wish to establish more than one "level" of humanity, such as "sub-human". That way they can claim that a particular group are not "people" (like blacks, Jews, etc.).
And that is the way it has worked out, in fact. Even our own Supreme Court got in the act by declaring that the founding fathers did not have the unborn in mind when they wrote the word "person" in the Constitution.
It is the very height of hatred that inspires certain people to label others "non-persons". And the final irony is, even that label is defined as " a person regarded as non-existent or insignificant. http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/nonperson?view=uk

reply from: 4choice4all

Actually we do have a term for your "womb child" and "unborn human being"...it's fetus, embryo, blastocyst, zygote.....and it's all way more accurate of a description. I'll be happy to use those terms...but you wouldn't....because it won't promote your ideologies. So you are the ones that create other words to use to describe the unborn...we already have legal and medical terminologies for them.

reply from: yoda

wow.....
You totally ignore the entire post...... and go off on a fantasy trip.....
Keep posting, you make all baby killers look bad.....

reply from: prochoiceinNY

So?
Roe still says the "womb child" isn't born and no righties until bornie.

reply from: yoda

I take it you're the one who claims to be "above" dictionaries?

reply from: Faramir

I think they're the same thing and can be used interchangably, and the opposition ought not nitpick or play word games, since they know what is meant, though they seem to do that more if the word "human" is used by itself, and will agree that a fetus is "human" just like their big toe is, which is irritatating and disingenuous, especially after a long exchange, since they know what is meant.

reply from: sander

Are you sure he/she is even above ground?

reply from: 4choice4all

I don't argue that a human being is not a person. I argue that a fetus is not a human being or a person. And simply being "human" does not make you a being or person...because like Faramir pointed out...dna is human but not a person or being...hair can be a human hair, but it doesn't make it a being or person.

reply from: Banned Member

If we need not recognize a person until someone says that they are a person to not kill them, than we need only to recognize a person until someone says that they are not to kill them.
Either we are human persons who do not allow to kill one another or we are not. There can be no vague compromising middle ground for ambiguity. Otherwise murderous bedlam will ensue.

reply from: Banned Member

The human person/being begins at human conception. Humans do not reproduce at birth. We reproduce at human conception/fertilization.

reply from: sander

You must be related to pcny or are pcny....we can't have got so lucky as to get two of you demonstrating how utterly stupid proaborts are.
But, I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.

reply from: 4choice4all

Sander....More name calling to divert from the fact that you couldn't come up with a well thought out point to save your life.....snore. FM, put your yesgirl in time out.

reply from: Banned Member

If we need not recognize a person until someone says that they are a person to not kill them, than we need only to recognize a person until someone says that they are not to kill them.
Either we are human persons who do not allow to kill one another or we are not. There can be no vague compromising middle ground for ambiguity. Otherwise murderous bedlam will ensue.
The human person/being begins at human conception. Humans do not reproduce at birth. We reproduce at human conception/fertilization.

reply from: 4choice4all

Human reproduction is a process that ends at birth unless fetal demise occurs earlier...what does that have to do with personhood? You can beat the "life begins at conception" drum all you want but you should realize that not everyone is buying it. Sorry. uphill battle...best of luck...but don't count on it.

reply from: Banned Member

What does human reproduction produce, or rather reproduce? When has the actual human offspring been created?
The question was not however when does human reproction end but when does it begin?

reply from: 4choice4all

Yeah..but two can play
Human reproduction starts at conception...the process continues for roughly 9 months....and ends at the birth of a human being unless the process is ended early through miscarriage or abortion.

reply from: Banned Member

What has been reproduced at conception? What is the aim of reproduction which begins with successful conception? What has been created?

reply from: Shenanigans

Which one of the pro-abort trolls are you?
Or do you really think this way?

reply from: Faramir

Whoa, I didn't exactly point that out.
I was referring to many discussions I've seen where a prochoicer will say, "yeah, it's human--never said it wasn't," and then ten posts later will say "so is my big toe."
That's frustrating because they knew what the intent was.

reply from: Shenanigans

Cell specialisation and variation.
A human hair will never be anything BUT a human hair.
The unborn child is human and will evolve beyond the few cells she starts her life as.
THATs the difference!

reply from: Banned Member

If we need not recognize a person until someone says that they are a person to not kill them, than we need only to recognize a person until someone says that they are not to kill them.
Either we are human persons who do not allow to kill one another or we are not. There can be no vague compromising middle ground for ambiguity. Otherwise murderous bedlam will ensue.
The human person/being begins at human conception. Humans do not reproduce at birth. We reproduce at human conception/fertilization.

reply from: BossMomma

Why wouldn't it promote pro-life ideals to use medical terms? Calling an unborn child a fetus does not diminish what that child is one bit. Zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, neonate, infant, toddler, child, teen,adult..all simply stages of development a human being goes through. It is no more ethical to butcher your fetus than it is to butcher your neonate, they are the same individual.

reply from: Banned Member

Abortionists love to hide behind euphemisms.

reply from: 4choice4all

So why don't prolifers use the actual terms? Obviously, it serves some purpose.

reply from: 4given

Right. It is the pro-choice/abortion people that have tried to distort the humanity of the unborn. I imagine it must be to a confused and frightened female.. as well as to the staff that schedules, escorts or counsels her to kill her offspring.. much easier to accept when not refered to as a "baby".

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Right. It is the pro-choice/abortion people that have tried to distort the humanity of the unborn. I imagine it must be to a confused and frightened female.. as well as to the staff that schedules, escorts or counsels her to kill her offspring.. much easier to accept when not refered to as a "baby".
I wouldn't care if it was called a "baby", its still in the woman's body and she can still have it out.
I thought about keeping my first pregnancy and looked after myself for the first four months thinking of it as a baby, but then I woke up and realised I was deluding myself and that I best get it out before it wrecks my life.

reply from: CDC700

Right. It is the pro-choice/abortion people that have tried to distort the humanity of the unborn. I imagine it must be to a confused and frightened female.. as well as to the staff that schedules, escorts or counsels her to kill her offspring.. much easier to accept when not refered to as a "baby".
I wouldn't care if it was called a "baby", its still in the woman's body and she can still have it out.
My dad told me to keep my first pregnancy and so I looked after myself for the first four months thinking of it as a baby, but then I woke up and realised It was also my sister because we would have the same dad. I was so stupid to have sex with my dad. I just couldn't stand to see him go to jail over this.

reply from: 4given

Wait are you even a female? How old are you exactly? Amusing.. yet sad.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Wait are you even a female? How old are you exactly? Amusing.. yet sad.
Yeah, I'm a female. I'm 31.

reply from: BossMomma

Right. It is the pro-choice/abortion people that have tried to distort the humanity of the unborn. I imagine it must be to a confused and frightened female.. as well as to the staff that schedules, escorts or counsels her to kill her offspring.. much easier to accept when not refered to as a "baby".
I wouldn't care if it was called a "baby", its still in the woman's body and she can still have it out.
I thought about keeping my first pregnancy and looked after myself for the first four months thinking of it as a baby, but then I woke up and realised I was deluding myself and that I best get it out before it wrecks my life.
Funny, the sex that created that baby didn't ruin your life. Babies don't ruin anyone's life, stupidity does.

reply from: BossMomma

Some of us do obviously, I just used a crap load of em.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

You're saying I shouldn't enjoy sex? I like sex. I don't think having is stupid and I don't think having sex ruined my life. I don't see why I should give up sex for some blob!

reply from: BossMomma

You're saying I shouldn't enjoy sex? I like sex. I don't think having is stupid and I don't think having sex ruined my life. I don't see why I should give up sex for some blob!
At 4 months your baby was hardly a blob you deluded daddy boinker.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

It was certainly a blob after the abortion, especially after it went through the mincer. OF course, it could have been donated to research which would have been more noble and not so wasteful.

reply from: BossMomma

It was certainly a blob after the abortion, especially after it went through the mincer. OF course, it could have been donated to research which would have been more noble and not so wasteful.
Oh well, maybe it'll cross your lil mind next time.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Next time I have an abortion?
I'll be sure to ask if I can see the POC post the abortion.

reply from: BossMomma

Next time I have an abortion?
I'll be sure to ask if I can see the POC post the abortion.
Whatever bullsh*t artist.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Given the amount of anti-choice bullsh*t artists I can see you guys have trolling this board, I can understand why you don't think I'm the real deal. Sure, my beliefs may be a little in your face, and upfront, and maybe ever harsh to those with girly stomachs, but I assure you there are plenty of people like me in this world, and we will be the ones who insure Roe stands!!

reply from: Shenanigans

That's one way of describing it...
But how much education do you have? Did you make it through secondary school? Is your knowledge, and I use the term lightly, come from the PP pamphets they gave you after your procedures?

reply from: Shenanigans

What would it take to prove to you that the "POC" are worthy of the life they already have?

reply from: yoda

And yet, you will not address the fact that "human being" is simply our biological species classification, nor will you address the definitions I post.
I get the strong feeling that you are not as big a fool as you pretend, and you are just trying to get a reaction from us by making the most stupid statements you can think of.
Am I far off?

reply from: faithman

And yet, you will not address the fact that "human being" is simply our biological species classification, nor will you address the definitions I post.
I get the strong feeling that you are not as big a fool as you pretend, and you are just trying to get a reaction from us by making the most stupid statements you can think of.
Am I far off?
Some fools just mouth off because they like to here their own death rattle voice. Babykillerist defend their baby killing ways no matter what. To bad the prolife bowel movement isn't as committed to the womb child. This would have ended decades ago if the "movement" was more interested in the womb child, than their precious image!!!!!!

reply from: yoda

There are no "actual terms". Or, all terms are "actual". Which is it?

reply from: sk1bianca

it's not a human being unless pro-death people say it is. they magically change species when they pass through the magic birth canal, don't you know?

reply from: faithman

There are no "actual terms". Or, all terms are "actual". Which is it?
Actually in their eyes, only what the say so are actual terms.

reply from: Rosalie

Human fetuses are not human? Wow. News to me.

reply from: sk1bianca

that's what some of your fellow pro-death jerks believe...

reply from: faithman

Human fetuses are not human? Wow. News to me.
WOW!!!! You ain't listening to your pro death sistahood. They have been screeching that mantra for decades.

reply from: Rosalie

Sorry, dumb misogynist trash, but you failed to notice that some pro-choicers here oppose to the "being" part of "human being", not the "human" part.
This must be fail #50 for you today, at least.

reply from: faithman

Sorry, dumb misogynist trash, but you failed to notice that some pro-choicers here oppose to the "being" part of "human being", not the "human" part.
This must be fail #50 for you today, at least.
Nice dodge death scanc. But history refutes you.

reply from: sk1bianca

it's not my fault that some pro-death people don't know any basic biology so they can recognize an individual human organism (that's what a human being is, ya know...)

reply from: yoda

Sorry, dumb misogynist trash, but you failed to notice that some pro-choicers here oppose to the "being" part of "human being", not the "human" part.
This must be fail #50 for you today, at least.
Nice dodge death scanc. But history refutes you.
So does the dictionary:
Main Entry: human being Function: noun : HUMAN
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/human being
Main Entry: human Function: noun : a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/human

American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language
http://www.bartleby.com/61/
HUMAN:
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.

reply from: MC3

To My Pro-Lifers Friends:
I trust that this thread has shown you why this forum was not intended to win anyone over but as a venue for pro-lifers to communicate with each other, share ideas, and stay informed.
Look, our enemies are as aware of the biological, medical and scientific realities of the unborn as you are. Don't be deceived by what they say here. They know as well as you and I know that abortion takes the life of a living human being. But that does not guide their thinking. The fundamental problem is that the position you and I have taken is based on morality and these are amoral people. Their sole guiding principle is self-interest. In their world view, concepts like right and wrong and basic human decency have no relevance.
It is also important to keep in mind that those who are so devoted to abortion that they would join a forum to defend it, will never change their minds regardless of the arguments you make. Further, the exceptions to this are so rare as to be functionally non-existent. That is why they are allowed to post here only to serve as foils for our amusement and as exercise to keep our skills sharp.
I say these things to you because I want you to have the right mental attitude when engaging these people. I don't want you to take them on with the belief that logic and sound arguments will cause them to come around. If you do, the only thing you are guaranteed to take from the experience is anger and frustration. And that does not help the victims.
So enjoy the exercise, but always remember that our mission is not to convert the killers but to stop the killing.

reply from: yoda

Quite so. In order to follow their "thinking", it's necessary to understand that they think a "little white lie or two" here and there is a good thing, if it enhances the standing of abortion "rights". Knowing full well that most people will recognize them as lies, they still think that it is useful to tell those lies in order to give people a convenient excuse to repeat over and over, in hopes of convincing themselves that they are not evil people. It's a little like a "mantra" that some people recite when meditating, it gives them comfort even though it means nothing. And it's a way to recognize a fellow pro-death person, kind of like a secret handshake.
If only carolemarie, farami, and yuuki understood that......

reply from: Faramir

I don't have any illusions about the probability of converting any of them.
That hasn't been my main point, anyway.
We can oppose without demeaning. As I see it, when we degrade the opponent, we are using unborn life as an excuse to elevate ourselves by diminishing someone else, which is selfishness and exploitive of the unborn.
The quote in my signature reflects the attidude I believe we should have toward the opponents, and it's not one of hatred or abusiveness, and was made by one of the world's leading pro-life activists.

reply from: CDC700

I don't have any illusions about the probability of converting any of them.
That hasn't been my main point, anyway.
We can oppose without demeaning. As I see it, when we degrade the opponent, we are using unborn life as an excuse to elevate ourselves by diminishing someone else, which is selfishness and exploitive of the unborn.
The quote in my signature reflects the attidude I believe we should have toward the opponents, and it's not one of hatred or abusiveness, and was made by one of the world's leading pro-life activists.
To not fight back would be unnatural. If they are using phrases and words that are an offense against the unborn. It is a natural reaction to throw the same if not worse back at them. And who the hell is "using unborn life"? That's one of the dumbest things I have read in a long time.

reply from: faithman

I don't have any illusions about the probability of converting any of them.
That hasn't been my main point, anyway.
We can oppose without demeaning. As I see it, when we degrade the opponent, we are using unborn life as an excuse to elevate ourselves by diminishing someone else, which is selfishness and exploitive of the unborn.
The quote in my signature reflects the attidude I believe we should have toward the opponents, and it's not one of hatred or abusiveness, and was made by one of the world's leading pro-life activists.
Pavone is a backwards collar wearing judas. He would sell out pro-lifers to a prodeath government. I would say you are exploiting the womb child to to elivate your false civility. You are worse than a borthead, because you do their work under the banner of defending the womb child. [which you very rarely do by the way].

reply from: Faramir

Read my signature please. Where does it say "not fighting back"?
It's not "natural" to demean someone else, and it's exploitive to use babies as an excuse to do it.

reply from: Banned Member

You are a hate mongering, close-minded, twit. A person can disagree with you without being amoral or self serving. Perhaps if you allowed yourself to get to know some pro-choice people you see that.

reply from: BossMomma

Human fetuses are not human? Wow. News to me.
That's what 4C4A says anyway.

reply from: 4choice4all

I firmly believe that you can not win over the hearts and minds of anyone through coercion...but through persuasion. And you don't persuade people to reconsider their positions or to actually "hear" you by failing to use logic, relying on rhetoric, resorting to name calling or threats. Your side has an uphill battle, my friends. Abortion has remained legal for 36 years...the country is not getting "more conservative" or "more religious" so I don't see the tide turning for you. Many of you wave banners of hate and the anti-homosexual, anti- muslim sentiments are infused into the abortion debate which only paints you as haters...and makes it obvious to those looking in(the ones whose hearts and minds you need) that you are not about womb children or the unborn...but about hate and control. (not all prolifers of course....just usually the loud ones)

reply from: Rosalie

Human fetuses are not human? Wow. News to me.
That's what 4C4A says anyway.
1. I'm not 4C4A.
2. It is my understanding (and I double-checked) that she disagreed with the term "human being", not "human".

reply from: BossMomma

Given the amount of anti-choice bullsh*t artists I can see you guys have trolling this board, I can understand why you don't think I'm the real deal. Sure, my beliefs may be a little in your face, and upfront, and maybe ever harsh to those with girly stomachs, but I assure you there are plenty of people like me in this world, and we will be the ones who insure Roe stands!!
Please, you're so full of crap you're going to have to hang a bucket out your ass just to catch the excess.

reply from: faithman

Read my signature please. Where does it say "not fighting back"?
It's not "natural" to demean someone else, and it's exploitive to use babies as an excuse to do it.
Who cares what your "hero" has to say. He is a 30 piece sell out, and one of the phoniest voices in the pro-life bowel movement.

reply from: 4choice4all

OH Rosalie...they don't need facts or anything....BM knows I've stated over and over that a fetus inside a human is human...but when has the truth ever stopped one of them from saying something they "think" will help their cause?

reply from: Rosalie

I know they don't, 4C4A. They'll never need facts because lies suit their agenda better and some of them have lied to themselves so well that they can't tell the lies from the truth anymore, even if they tried. And twisting the statements of others so they could the misinterpreted statement against them is their hobby as well.
Much love to you, girl. I'm glad we crossed paths here.

reply from: yoda

What's "demeaning" about speaking the truth? Whom have we "demeaned"?

reply from: yoda

Coming from you, anything less would be an insult.

reply from: 4choice4all

I don't know if we'll ever be able to wash off the stench of the "poopy" from wading through this mess here...but I'm pleased to have met you too!

reply from: yoda

We're not trying to "win over" your type, we're trying to coerce you into not killing any more babies, or supporting that killing.
Do you feel coerced yet?

reply from: yoda

Yes, you have used that adjective..... and in the same breath denied that the noun form of that word applies..... and like a good little ROEBOT, you just drop that slogan/mantra and let it lie there like a wounded duck. Never once have you made any attempt to support that lie, you just throw it out like the garbage it is.

reply from: yoda

It's the blood on your hands that sickens me.......

reply from: 4choice4all

I don't scare easily...and certainly no amount of poopyheadscanc talk is going to do the trick. Women aren't as weak as you would like them to be...sorry....and prochoice convictions aren't so loosely held.
And coercion gets you no where...obviously...but keep at it. The sooner your side dwindles to a very very silent minority...the better. Your tactics reveal your desperation, friend.

reply from: yoda

Desperate to stop the slaughter?
How did you guess?

reply from: Rosalie

We're not trying to "win over" your type, we're trying to coerce you into not killing any more babies, or supporting that killing.
Do you feel coerced yet?
Do you REALLY feel you've accomplished something? Do you really think that you are coercing someone?
Because if so, you are deluded.

reply from: 4choice4all

Desperate to win Yoda....that's your goal, winning. It's not about 'saving babies'....that's obvious here. Namecalling, killing abortion providers, screaming outside of clinics...beating up other prolifers for not agreeing with you......it's a game and you want to win...period.

reply from: faithman

http://maafa21.com/

reply from: Rosalie

Well, they really couldn't have made it any clearer, could they?

reply from: Rosalie

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html
http://elections.7rooz.com/link/330/ http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4451899 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.

reply from: yoda

NO ONE "wins" an online argument, haven't you figured that out yet?
Yes, you have used that adjective..... and in the same breath denied that the noun form of that word applies..... and like a good little ROEBOT, you just drop that slogan/mantra and let it lie there like a wounded duck. Never once have you made any attempt to support that lie, you just throw it out like the garbage it is.
WHY ARE THE DICTIONARIES WRONG, 4C4A????

reply from: sander

I'd rather walk on glass...barefoot then be "persuaded" to the dark side.
Nobody wants to "persuade" or "coerce" you people into anything.
You think entierly too high of yourselves.
You think if you throw everything, including the kitchen sink, that something is going to stick.
You're beyond pathetic, but you do serve a small purpose, you expose the slimy under belly of the proabort mindset.
It gets more disgusting as the years pass, but then clinging to filth and death will do that.

reply from: 4choice4all

Actually yoda, you are wrong...and on the losing side.....sucks,eh? Even with your conservative president and your conservative house/senate....abortion stands. And now your country elected a very prochoice president....betrayed again.

reply from: Shenanigans

No offence to America, but you guys don't have much of a democracy, I mean, you get two choices! And I'd wager a lot of people voted for Obama because they were sick of Bush and saw McCain as a Bush clone.
But you go to a "christian" church, you must know we're living in the end times and that Jesus himself said it was going to get worse, not better. Obama's evil opinions are just further evidence of that.

reply from: sander

The sooner everyone understands that fundamental principle, the sooner the proaborts can scurry back under their rocks and the distraction they present greatly diminished.
Look out, they don't like being exposed to truth and light, their furry backs get all twisted up in knots and they come out swinging telling us how moral, decent and wonderful they are....(puke).
I have a couple of descriptive words for these types:
Attention whores.
They have no intention of changing their minds and they know full well they will NEVER change ours...so what other reason can they have to frequent a place they know despises everything they stand for.
So true.
That reaction also works in reverse; the proaborts exposed to logic come all un-gluled and next thing you know there's a pcny on board.
Stop the killing, yes that is the paramount goal.

reply from: 4choice4all

Sander...if you want to end abortion(and I'm not convinced you do) then you do want to persuade some people to come to your side....you can't shoot every prochoice person...half the country.
Shenanigans...we Have the ability to choose other candidates...but we don't. Our government doesn't force us to pick between two. The power to change the fact that it always comes down to 2 is solely in our hands.
I do not belong to a fire and brimstone church..we don't sweat the end of times.

reply from: Yuuki

No offence to America, but you guys don't have much of a democracy, I mean, you get two choices! And I'd wager a lot of people voted for Obama because they were sick of Bush and saw McCain as a Bush clone.
But you go to a "christian" church, you must know we're living in the end times and that Jesus himself said it was going to get worse, not better. Obama's evil opinions are just further evidence of that.
No offense Shenangians, but more than 2 people ran for president. We had other choices.

reply from: sander

A very pathetic attempt to dodge the issue, which your side does constantly since you have no reasonable or logical points to make.
Only kill the babies, kill the babies, kill the babies...we get that, moron.
I'm not here to change anyone's mind and you know that, you're just here to get attention since you're sorely lacking it in your personal life.
I happen to disagree with shooting anyone, too bad you can't say the same thing about killing helpless, voiceless babies.
Oh, and thanks for proving my point about your furry back getting all twisted in knots.
If your belief system concerning abortion is upheld in the church you attend, it is a church in name only. And all who belive like you do along with the leadership will be sweating some place else after the end times.
(fair warning)
Of course, there's always the option of repenting, you have heard of that little thing.........

reply from: 4choice4all

I would repent if I felt I had something I needed to repent over.....abortion is not something I feel the need to repent for nor do my religious leaders.
I'm here to enlighten you Sander...that's all

reply from: faithman

http://maafa21.com/

reply from: BossMomma

Human fetuses are not human? Wow. News to me.
That's what 4C4A says anyway.
1. I'm not 4C4A.
2. It is my understanding (and I double-checked) that she disagreed with the term "human being", not "human".
So a human with a beating heart and brain waves isn't in a state of being? That's news to the medical community. I never said you were 4C4A.

reply from: 4choice4all

The medical community is overwhelmingly prolife? Nah....they agree that human beings are more than a heartbeat and brain wave.

reply from: BossMomma

No, the medical community recognizes what life is. It's not memories, it's not self awareness, it's not peoples fondness of you, it is a beating heart and functioning brain. Ever notice how Social Demise is not listed in any medical text? Brain Death is.
In your mad scramble to justify killing unborn children you would take even the acknowledgement that they are human beings from them. You were once a fetus, you were a human being in utero. All human being means is the body of a human, the state of being human. Stop attaching so much rhetoric to it. As one who studies medical text, terminology, procedure day in and day out I think I know a little more about the medical community than an escort at an abortion clinic. BTW, every last one of my instructors is female, pro-life and, has 20 or more years of experience to back their mouths up. What are your credentials?

reply from: galen

*************************
Funny i've never heard an OB/Gyn tell a woman congratulations! is a fetus/ zygote/ embryo/ blast..
Nope they all say congratulations its a baby boy/girl...
The medical community may recognise choice... but a sad few are the ones who actually abort infants.. the reason is not ever.. gee i don't want to die... its usually that they got into medicine to save lives.. not take them.

reply from: 4choice4all

My OB often referred to "the fetus".
BM.....so again, the medical community is overwhelmingly prolife? Exactly....it's not. And there's a reason...and it's not bloodlust,lol.

reply from: galen

after he told you you were pregnant yes... but not during that announcment.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

if anything they are more pro-choice, sure, not all of them will do abortions, simply because they're interested in other aspects of medicine, doesn't mean they're any less pro-choice. Its no different then a lawyer who's pro-choice, just because she doesn't do abortions doesn't mean she's not a pro-choice lawyer!!

reply from: galen

Its is diffrent beause doctors are in the feild to ease suffering , cure peoples illness, and are trained to fight at all costs to save life...
we are not speaking of terminally ill people, we are speaking of viable people who are being executed for convienence.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

They're not people, they're blobs, and the law says that.
And they're not being executed, excuted people have a trial and lawyers and a jury and a judge adn I don't see any of that for the POC blobs that are sucked out of women's uterusess each day.

reply from: galen

they are not blobs... your lack of higher education is showing...and no they are executed just like the third world does with its people they consider incovienent... no trial, made up excuses as to why life is better without them... sound familiar?

reply from: galen

show me ANY law that says they are blobs... not even RvW does that.

reply from: BossMomma

Never said it was dimwit, more like denial. Medical staff are often neutral, they have to be. However, any medical professional knows that a fetus is a human being not yet developed enough to survive without it's mother.
Font SizeA A A
Definition of Fetus
Fetus: The unborn offspring from the end of the 8th week after conception (when the major structures have formed) until birth. Up until the eighth week, the developing offspring is called an embryo.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3424

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Of course RvW isn't going to use the word "blob" its not a very legal term is it? But its not a person and its not a baby and so for all in tents and purposes it might as well be called a blob in law.

reply from: 4choice4all

If the medical community felt a fetus was the same as a any born being....why would they support elective abortions?
Oh right...because they overwhelmingly do NOT agree that a fetus is the same as born people.

reply from: BossMomma

Hell some will happily take a baby off life support because mom and dad can't afford it anymore, is it greed or is that child not considered the same as "born people?" Medical text defines the fetus as unborn offspring, offspring is defined as young, children, babies etc.. straight from the Doctors mouth, where is your proof that a fetus is not a human being? I've posted my proof to the contrary from a totally unbiased medical text.

reply from: 4choice4all

If people can distort the Bible through wild interpretations....you can distort medical books. Still doesn't make you right though.....but wait, you have another hook to try...doctors are greedy..that's why they support abortion...because you can't say they don't understand basic biology or science. Like a dog chasing it's tail....fun to watch them scramble in futility!

reply from: BossMomma

Nice dodge, you can't show anything to prove your opinion as fact so you spit out another string of rhetoric. Get some education chick, seriously.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Tiller had an education, yet you guys vilify him.

reply from: 4choice4all

BM reminds me of the scene in Anchorman....woman have smaller brains, it's science.
As if saying something makes it the truth. You claim medical books say fetuses are babies....well, you sort of admit "not really"....the medical book says a fetus is unborn offspring, and offspring can mean a baby...so by that FAR OVERREACHING INCORRECT stab at logic...medical books say fetuses are babies?? I know the answer...in the words of Ron Burgundy...it's science.
lol...did your prolife nursing teachers write those medical books on their Mac? do the "books" lack binding....just sheets of paper folded in half and stacked inside each other?

reply from: prochoiceinNY

I think I saw those books once! They're done with finger painting and crayon pictures!

reply from: 4choice4all

Funny story...my oldest child witnessed the birth of my youngest. The hospital didn't have any hard rules about it...it was really whatever your OB was comfortable with. So I talked to my dr. and he was fine with it...he had young kids of his own. So he asked if my daughter was going to take the sibling class the hospital offered..I said yeah...he said tell the instructor that Grace is going to witness the actual birth so she can give you some pointers. And then he told me about his own daughter taking the sibling class and the instructor used a "kid friendly" book and it had a pic of a pregnant woman and her stomach was transparent so you could see the fetus. But the fetus wasn't accurate...it was a smiling cartoonish full grown baby attached by a cord...smiling and waving. So his daughter said "that's not what they look like!" She was used to seeing his medical books and medical posters,lol.
Oh...we did a pretty good job preparing our daughter...but we left out the detail about the placenta...so she thought I was having twins.

reply from: BossMomma

Try not lying in your next rebuttal, medical books state fetuses are human offspring, I provided the link to my source which was a medical dictionary. You have yet to provide even a single source beyond your opinion. Post a fact along with it's source to back up the idea that fetuses are not human beings.

reply from: Shenanigans

Got any stats to back that up?
You'd think if there were so many of them supporting choice they'd be getting out, putting their squeamishmess aside and do the "dirty work".

reply from: Shenanigans

That is a funny story!!
THe other day at work a kid came in and was running around the ward, he then hid under a bed of an old lady, and I said to him, "ooh, you better be careful under there, you could get poop on you", to which he replied "old people can't poop, their bells are too slow". HAHAH!!

reply from: 4choice4all

Human offspring is not human being.
AMA, AMCOG and AMWA all support choice.

reply from: Shenanigans

As an organisation, or those at the top of it do at least. Take the NZL's Nurses' organisation, a few years ago with a gay marriage bill before parliament the NZNO put forward a submission supporting this. THe backlash from members was massive! They did a poll and found the majority of their members were AGAINST this move by the NZNO, so much so, they removed their submissions.
So while the NZNO heads supported gay marriage, the majority of members did not.

reply from: 4choice4all

There is no massive backlash in the states on this. The vast majority support choice. And even the prolifers acknowledge that.
I live in a large metropolitan area that is heavily catholic and you are hardpressed to find prolife doctors. Trust me, it's discussed often amongst the catholics. They have a handful that they use and promote...and it's a mere handful...even though so many of our hospitals are catholic ones.

reply from: sk1bianca

human being = a living organism belonging to the human race. right?

reply from: faithman

Trust you? Why should we trust a lying sack of pro-death fecal matter like you? YOur post does not back up the latest polls. America is becomeing more pro-life everyday. Particularly amongst the young. It is primarily due to the development pictures, and the modern ultra sound technology. You death scum are becomming exstinct. there are fewer "doctor" babykillerist. Fewer workers, and fewer clinics. Abortion rates are dropping, which means the bortheads have fewer funds to buy off government. I full expect the political atmosphere to change in Kansas now that Tiller the ex-baby killer is retired. That is a very good thing, no matter what Fartamere has to say. There are no replacements comming up. Who wants to follow a career path that involves a flack jacket? Abortion babykillerist are considered the bottom feeding scum of the medical profession, by their peers. We are winning. Just not fast enough for the thousands of children who will be escourted into a death camp by low lifes like you.

reply from: sander

Trust you? Why should we trust a lying sack of pro-death fecal matter like you? YOur post does not back up the latest polls. America is becomeing more pro-life everyday. Particularly amongst the young. It is primarily due to the development pictures, and the modern ultra sound technology. You death scum are becomming exstinct. there are fewer "doctor" babykillerist. Fewer workers, and fewer clinics. Abortion rates are dropping, which means the bortheads have fewer funds to buy off government. I full expect the political atmosphere to change in Kansas now that Tiller the ex-baby killer is retired. That is a very good thing, no matter what Fartamere has to say. There are no replacements comming up. Who wants to follow a career path that involves a flack jacket? Abortion babykillerist are considered the bottom feeding scum of the medical profession, by their peers. We are winning. Just not fast enough for the thousands of children who will be escourted into a death camp by low lifes like you.
She makes up stories as she goes along, lies at will and expects anyone but another violent proabort to "trust her".
She's nothing but a vile little joke.

reply from: sander

And not a single word proves the point you've been trying to make.
You can't prove it.
Apparently you never tire of making a total ass of yourself.....
I'm kind of glad you don't, you prove your side total idiots everytime you post and give further reason for the polls to continue to rise for prolife.

reply from: sander

You've been warned, I've done my part.

reply from: yoda

Education does not cure a black heart.

reply from: yoda

Well.... you start off with a lie, and then try to entertain us with your "wit"?
"Baby" is not, and never has been a medical term, so why would we look for it in a "medical book"?
"Baby" is a term of the vernacular, so we look for it in dictionaries of the vernacular (common language).
But academics is wasted on the dishonest proabort. "Cast not your pearls before swine", as they say.

reply from: yoda

Of course not....... they're lizards...... like you!

reply from: BossMomma

Ok then, you're a woman but you're not a woman.

reply from: 4choice4all

And your point would make sense if it had a shred of logic

reply from: sander

You get funnier by the day.
As if you've posted an iota of logic!
You're still busy trying to convince yourself that humans aren't human beings. (God knows you'll never convince anyone with more than a lick of a brain).
But it is a masterpiece of sheer stupidity, so keep it up, you only give your side the brusing it deserves.

reply from: BossMomma

I'm just following your logic that human offspring is not human offspring, where the hell's the logic in your statement? You have yet to offer even one shred of proof to back the feces that so frequently flies from your mouth. And btw, my sources also come from Davi-Ellen Chabner's The Language of Medicine 8th edition and, Comprehensive Medical Assisting by Thompson Delmar Learnings 3rd Edition. Hardly coloring book pages.

reply from: yoda

Bump, so 4c4a can continue to evade the issue of his denial of our species classification before birth........
I guess he thinks we ought to wait until birth to be sure what our species will be.... might be a duck or something, right?

reply from: kd78

ok so those of us that gave birth weren't carrying human beings or people. they magically became human once the doctor lifted them up, and they screamed. is that correct? so what were we carrying?!

reply from: CDC700

I'm still scared of what might happen to me, I never passed through the birth canal.

reply from: sander

Haven't you ever heard of "magic People/Being dust"????
The baby gets sprinkled as soon as he or she passes thru the birth canal and there's this "magic people/being dust" fairy.
Now, that makes just as much sense as anything 4c or any other life denying/proabort on this board has ever said and has just as much truth to it.

reply from: 4choice4all

Do you wallow in ignorance because thoughts hurt your brain?
The only ones talking about magical dust and magic vaginas are you guys.

reply from: sander

I see, you can dish out rubbish and call it truth, but when the table turns you suddenly get indignite.
Grown the hell up.

reply from: 4choice4all

I don't call it truth...I call it my beliefs and I back my beliefs up with logical points of debate. UNLIKE YOU......Sander, you insult...period. No debate, no points, no logic....just slurs with a dash of rhetoric. There are prolifers that present points and discuss topics...you could learn a lot from them..but that goes back to my statement that some of you prefer to wallow in ignorance.

reply from: CDC700

Yep, but I have yet to see a "pro-choicer" that makes any rational well thought out points on abortion.

reply from: 4choice4all

Only because you are so blinded by ideology that you refuse to enter into dialogue with the other side. You may not agree with prochoice points or my logic...but you could respond as to WHY instead of resorting to name calling.

reply from: sander

You do not like being called out do you....what a laugh.
You haven't proved anything, and to say anyone is "wallowing in ignorance" when you don't "believe" humans in the womb are "beings" is almost laughable, but too many babies died today to make it funny.
I treat you and all other proaborts with utter and complete contempt. Deal with it or put me on ignore, because I have no intentions of treating you people with anymore respect then I would any good little nazi or slave owners back in those awful days.
I am passionate about the idea of grown people killing the most defensless among us, and I could not possibly care any less what a vile creature like yourself thought of me or how you critique my conduct on this fourm.
You can stick your thoughts on my postings where the sun doesn't shine.

reply from: BossMomma

You're the one wallowing in ignorance. You can't tell sarcasm from a statement of fact and you can't state one fact backing your pathetic reasoning on why unborn children aren't human beings. You respond to facts by being snooty which shows your maturity..or the lack there of.

reply from: 4choice4all

I'm not out to prove anything....I'm out to offer up my beliefs and thoughts to those here that actually want to have dialogue...the rest of you are like ants at a picnic...a slightly annoying inconvenience.
I personally don't care why you treat others with disdain...that would be a waste of my time since you are an adult and I find that level of disrespect and inhumanity incomprehensible and inexcusable. If you, likewise, do not care about my thoughts on abortion...why not take your own advice and put me on ignore? Is it because you get something out of it? Some joy in insulting others? in judging others? in clucking about how you are better than others?

reply from: BossMomma

We are in debate dear heart, it's my beliefs against yours, but mine are backed by medical fact. Yours are simply beliefs. I do show disdain when you claim my medical texts are coloring book pages, and that my instructors are incompetent because their beliefs do not mesh with yours. Don't act as though you are squeaky clean because your crap stinks just like every other mud slinger here. And by the way, you might use the quote function.

reply from: 4choice4all

No..yours are not backed by medical fact. Where in a medical book does it state personhood is at conception? A medical book wouldn't...because that's not a medical question. It's a belief...and not one widely held by the medical community since the largest medical communities in the states support choice. And of course, abortions are performed by medical doctors that of course went to medical school. No consensus because there's no "truth" or "fact" ...just belief and opinion.
I don't like the quote function but I was aware that it existed. Thanks.

reply from: lukesmom

According to the proaborts it is not a "person" until OUT of the vaginal canal. Once out, person dust is sprinkled on whatever and "it" magically becomes a "person". At that is how it is in magical proabort land.
Oh, forgot, it is only a person IF the mother decides to sprinkle the person dust. If she doesn't choose to do so, "it" remains something other than a person but I still haven't figured out what yet. Maybe the magical proaborts can tell us. what you say proaborts?

reply from: 4choice4all

Actually...no one has used person dust but prolifers....so you would have to ask prolifers about your "magic vagina/person dust theory".

reply from: yoda

You have NEVER attempted in any way to "back up your belief" that we are not human beings before birth...... you just keep throwing it out there like a three day old dead fist.... and it smells just as bad.
You simply try to spread your religion of death here by constant, mindless repetition.

reply from: yoda

The definition of "human being", however, is a medical/scientific question, and one which you avoid like the plague.
Heaven forbid that you should actually try to support one of your sick "beliefs".

reply from: sander

The definition of "human being", however, is a medical/scientific question, and one which you avoid like the plague.
Heaven forbid that you should actually try to support one of your sick "beliefs".
Actually, heaven does forbid it.
Kooks are one thing with God, kooks that call on His Name and walk women into the baby killing fields...well, that's an entirely different thing.

reply from: sander

You're here because Mark tolerates your pesky presence for our amusement. Try not to forget that you're un-welcomed and un-necessary but in your own eyes.
You've got some nerve talking about inhumanity when you have no qualms about women killing their healthy children and helping them do it. You have to lie to yourself day in and day out that those babies aren't really beings or persons or some such utter nonsense.
Funny how you managed to "waste your time" and tell me what you think anyway.
There has to be a better word than hypocrite to describe you.
I find your lifestyle inexcusable and as inhumane as someone who stomps on the heads of kittens.
Do you have any idea what the word "hypocrite" even means? You just accused me of judging while you spent two paragraphs doing that exact thing to me....you're not only inhumane you're down right stupid.
I'll keep reading and responding to your stupidity as long as it entertains me....
I'm not surprised you don't want to use the quote function, proaborts are lazy asses at heart.

reply from: BossMomma

I could care less about the term person, to me you are not a person you're a human female in the adult stage, so am I. Person a BS political term and totally irrelevant to the medical community. Person is a synonym for the body of a human being, nothing less nothing more. Your belief that there is more to it is just that, your belief, nothing less nothing more.

reply from: kd78

I'm still scared of what might happen to me, I never passed through the birth canal.
well neither did my older brother, my daughter, and other c-section babies. i guess that makes them not human?

reply from: CharlesD

Exactly what kind of being is it, if not human? Feline, canine? Care to elaborate?

reply from: sk1bianca

unborn kids are human beings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y08IrlM8gwk&feature=related

reply from: sander

But, if 4c admits that she'll have to face the fact she is culpable for every abortion ever performed, not just the ones she's walked into the killing fields.
That's a bitter pill to swallow, but better to swallow it here then spend eternity trying to spit it out.

reply from: sk1bianca

denial can be an ugly thing...

reply from: sander

Yes, and in this case it kills children.

reply from: yoda

Absolutely beautiful, and the logic is impeccable. Well done!

reply from: sk1bianca

thank you very much. please rate
it's a sort of tribute to my brother. the basic ideas are part of a longer presentation that you can find http://swordandspirit.com/LIBRARY/prolife.php along with other pro-life stuff.

reply from: kd78

i like your video, bianca

reply from: siri

OH, COME ON BOSS MAMA--ARE YOU REALLY FALLING FOR THIS? THIS IS OBVIOUSLY FAITHMAN trying to create his idea of a monster. People have sex with their fathers, but they don't describe it that way. Put through the mincer? And does anyone notice that she goes in and out of perfect spelling versus inability to spell? (which could mean that this is also a group effort).

reply from: siri

Oops--how did this end up here? I posted it right after PCNY's comment about having sex with her father and they didn't print it until now.

reply from: faithman

Sorry kiddo. I have nothing to do with it.

reply from: yoda

Now, where is CP when you need him, to berate this poster as being "paranoid"?

reply from: sander

You sure are paranoid. But, then no one should blame you since you support the most wicked, violent and vile thing known to humanity; the dreadful deaths of countless, helpless babies in the womb.

reply from: sk1bianca

still waiting for that definition 4c4a... what do you BELIEVE is a human being? what do you BELIEVE is a human fetus?


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics