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Common Ground

by: JasonFontaine

Pro-Choice:
Do you believe choice should be a matter of convenience? Should someone have an abortion simply because they do not wish to "deal" with these circumstances? Is this a choice? Or, would this be murder?
Pro-Life:
If a woman was raped - or if the baby is known to be dying or risks the mother's life - would you be willing to say this choice is necessary in these circumstances?
Just curious - really. I am pro-choice - but believe in LIFE. I feel far too many abortions occur for convenience....it is a money-making scheme.
Could you choose life? Many on the opposing side site "choice" as their ultimate defender to this issue. Is convenience a matter of choice?
Would you consider choosing life - and keeping abortions limited to those few, rare and necessary procedures in the privacy of physician and patient? This is what Obama says should be the case.
Many abortions - and this is wrong - but many abortions are done simply as a matter of convenience. Thoughts?

reply from: Shenanigans

You're talking about rape and the mother's life, these things are so RARE as to almost not register on statsitical charts.
Abortion is only legal in NZL for those exceptions, its a great big farce, people will abuse the system.
We're not going to win support for the humanity of the unborn by banning abortion when society isn't ready for it.
Educate the publci as to the humanity of the foetus, to the reality of abortion numbers, the reality of those "rare and tragic" circumstances such as rape, provide proper support for the woman facing an unplanned pregnancy, change society to accomodeate the pregnant woman - better career options, child care, uni allowances et cetera.
Then perhaps we wouldn't have to even ban abortion because no one would need one.
But I'd like it banned, if only to remove the defence of "if abortion is legal it must be okay".

reply from: lukesmom

I am prolife, no exceptions. That is not to say I don't understand and empathize with women in tough situations with tough desicions to make. I have been there with the tough decision. I don't care the circumstances, once pregnant, a life has been formed already. That life deserves the chance to continue living same as born life. Abortion may be a convenience for the woman but it is death for another human being; her unborn child.

reply from: churchmouse

Jason Jason........you love life but you are pro-choice? You are kidding right?
If you are pro-choice abortion then you are not pro-life, you stand in the same line everyone else does who condemns the unborn.
No. What does privacy have to do with this? Sorry but come on.......
So if we can see it its ok? Do you think the child in the womb cares why they were murdered? Do you think if you walked into a nursery full of newborns you could pick out the one whose mother was raped?
A life is a life like Lukes mom put it.

reply from: faithman

There is no middle ground. Either a womb child is a person, or they are not! I believe that thy are, and those who do not are low life scum bags. But thats just me.... In the mean time, get a copy of MAAFA 21. Even bortheads need to buy a copy, so when the get smacked upside the head, at least you will see it comming and know why.

reply from: JasonFontaine

I am pro-life. I choose to believe this. It's my choice.
Others believe in pro-choice.
I disagree - but wish to bring them to our side of the argument.
Why is this so hard to understand? Nothing wrong with choosing life...

reply from: Yuuki

Only if the child is endangering her life does she have the right to self defense - abortion - just like any other human on this planet.

reply from: sander

Because you talk gibberish most of the time, quite frankly.
Just plain everyday language works best...but, kudos for not pitching something for us to buy.

reply from: CDC700

Uh, you are A pro-idiot! Why waste your time on here jackass. Don't have some stupid pictures you could sell on other forums.

reply from: ProInformed

OK so in this post you admit that you are "pro-choice" but in another post in this same thread you claim you are "pro-life"...
Which is it?

reply from: ProInformed

In this posting you state: "I am pro-life" but in another post i this same thread you stated you are "pro-choice", which it is?

reply from: ProInformed

OK, have you ever bothered to read any of the info posted here?
How could you have missed the fact there is no such thing as it being necessary to kill an unborn baby to supposedly save the life of the mother?
"Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal illness such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save life."
Alan Guttmacher, M.D.
Do you just post but never read here?
Have you never visited a pro-life site and read the info there that refutes the choicist chants?
Check out this thread:
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=6585&enterthread=y

You've pretended to be pro-life all this time, coming here to tell real pro-lifers what we should be saying and doing, when the truth is you are just another choicist who believes abortion industry lies?
OK so maybe you are 'pro-choice' but personally opposed to abortion?
You do want to encourage women to choose life instead of death for their babies...
but do you think it's wrong for pro-life citizens to try to pass laws to stop the slaughter, to take away the 'right to choose' to kill babies?
There have been many discussions in this forum about late-term abortions and the lie that they are done for maternal health/life reasons, and discussions about killing innocent babies just because the male biological parent is a rapist. Please READ those threads before you criticize the pro-life position.

reply from: yoda

Do you also believe that elective abortion should be illegal?

reply from: ProInformed

OK, now that you have admitted that you are "pro-choice" I have a question for you:
Why aren't there any truly pro-choice groups that represent your POV?
There are pro-abort groups calling themselves 'pro-choice' when they really are pro-abort extremists groups, and there are pro-lfie groups that you pro-choicers are trying to convert to pro-choice while they retain the pro-life label.
The problem is you pro-choicers know you don't really have your own movement, but because of cowardice and/or dishonesty you prefer to try to infiltrate and take over the pr-life movement instead of challenging the pro-aborts for the pro-chocie label they've stolen for their pro-abort movement.

reply from: Banned Member

The last thing the Pro-lifers on this site are interested in is finding a common ground. You've been coming here long enough, you should have known that. They would sooner see a billion babies die than try to find a compromise. It's more about their ego's than anything else. Although, to be fair, there are a few exception, so who knows what the vast majority of pro-lifers are like. But as far as this site goes, Most are a lost cause.

reply from: ProInformed

So Jason now that you've admitted that you aren't really opposed to abortion being legal, that you just think abortion should be restricted to only the 'hard cases', a basically pro-choice moderate position, I am inviting you to contribute to a couple of threads related to the non-existence of a movement that represents the POV of people like you:
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=6436&enterthread=y
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=6422&enterthread=y
Don't you think that instead of posing as a pro-lifer and trying to get the pro-life movement to change to accomodate you, you should staret your own 'moderate pro-choice' movement to challenge the pro-abort for the 'pro-choice' label they falsely claim?

reply from: carolemarie

I am willing to work with anyone to reduce the need for abortion, and I am pretty sure most prolifers are.

reply from: yoda

The only problem with the "common ground" idea is that proaborts are only willing to find common ground that is soaked in the blood of the babies being killed that day.
Any mention of stopping the killing, for a day, an hour, or a minute, will immediately end the discussion.
They love to talk while the babies die. And some borderline prolifers will just chat away all day with them.

reply from: ProInformed

The only problem with the "common ground" idea is that proaborts are only willing to find common ground that is soaked in the blood of the babies being killed that day.
Any mention of stopping the killing, for a day, an hour, or a minute, will immediately end the discussion.
True.
I remember an actual proposal once that the killing be stopped for a brief period of time while both sides sat down to discuss 'common gruond'.
The pro-aborts refused.
They love to talk while the babies die. And some borderline prolifers will just chat away all day with them.

reply from: carolemarie

if they agreed to stop abortions to chat, that would be effectively our closing down the abortion clinics
they are not likely to agree to that under any circumstances, anymore than we would agree not to go to the clinics, operate CPcs or do anything else.
True common ground has to be found in the middle. And it can only go so far....if you are prochoice, you are not going to be okay with trying to talk women out of abortion. But you could work with us to fund parenting programs, help single moms with diapers and food and daycare vouchers.....
prolifers probably won't be to comfortable with funding vouchers for the morning after pill, or providing BC pills (some would be okay with the BC pills, but not the majority)
Prolifers would have to be willing to work on reducing the demand by abstinence plus programs.....

reply from: yoda

No, they are not likely to agree to even a one minute suspension of abortions, you are right. But still you insist on "finding common ground" with such people. They are inflexible in insisting that the killing must continue, and yet you want to have a "chat" with them while they kill babies? What would you chat about, how many they had killed today?
I can't believe anyone is that naive. They must snicker when they read that.
They already do that. Did you think that proaborts were doing that?

reply from: carolemarie

Both sides agree that it would be good to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies. That we could work on together.
Common ground doesn't mean one side wins and the other loses....it means we work together on a single goal.....
And FYI, how could anyone arrange for "the killing to stop" to talk about the issues? There is no leader of the prolifers, or leader of prochoicers who could agree to this "truce" and nobody who could enforce it....

reply from: yoda

All you will get is lip service on that front. They not only don't want fewer abortions, they don't want anyone slowing down the growth of abortion. You live in a fantasy world.
It was a hypothetical scenario........

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Common ground with people who want to control my body? I don't *****ing think so!!

reply from: JasonFontaine

Control your body? No.
YOU control your body.
After all, choice begins BEFORE conception. Why is this so hard to understand?

reply from: sk1bianca

you have an obsession... you can do whatever you want with your body as long as you don't kill anyone. abortion kills someone.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

So as soon as a woman is pregnant its no longer her body? You're a moron.
Choice before conception, choice to expel the products of conception and choice to have sex again!

reply from: yoda

Common ground with people like you, who want to destroy the body of an innocent unborn baby with no more thought than having a tooth pulled?
No, I don't think so........

reply from: yoda

Since YOU are "the products of conception" yourself, does that mean we have the right to expel YOU?

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Common ground with people like you, who want to destroy the body of an innocent unborn baby with no more thought than having a tooth pulled?
No, I don't think so........
Its not my fault the thing's not viable! And even if it is, its living in MY body on MY terms and if I decide I don't want it there, its gone.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Since YOU are "the products of conception" yourself, does that mean we have the right to expel YOU?
Oh, you're so clever, taking what I said and turning it around. I bet you and all your little fundy friends will be patting yourselves on the back for that gem!
And I'm an individual, a born person, recognized by the law, the thing in the woman's uterus isn't.

reply from: sk1bianca

it's not the "thing"'s fault either! you conceived "it"! you put "it" there!
and you are a disgusting "thing"... thinking about your child like that. i hope you never have "things" like children.

reply from: yoda

Sure it is, because you killed it before it had a chance to reach viability!
Who else can you blame for that?
Yes, and I'll bet you use "the law" as your moral guide, don't you?
Wow, just think what a swell slave owner you'd have been in the antebellum south........ all legal and everything!!

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Sure. I don't dispute that. But I got it out of there too! Multiple times in fact.
I'm comfortable with who I am and proud of the brave choices I made.

reply from: yoda

Yes, it takes a lot of courage for a 100 pound woman to kill a two ounce baby.
Real, real brave..........

reply from: prochoiceinNY

I blame me for not being more careful with my actions, but I rectified that situation and made a responsible choice not to have that thing reach viability. It only makes it a lot more expensive to get rid of it. And it takes up more space in the land fill!
Of course not, I use my own spirit guide and through discussion with my sisters I develop what I term as "morality".
I don't like the south, too many hicks and products of inbreeding.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

As brave as those nuts outside the clinics that bang their fundy drums and scream murderer and whore at the poor girls who have to try and get through that throng?
And seriously? I've killed fish that weigh more then your little "babies" and I felt no remorse over a fish, why should I over something that can't even string two thoughts together?

reply from: yoda

Well, that's one way to look at it. Born humans do take up more space, and eat more food than unborn ones. So, morally, you'd probably like to see it made legal to kill born folks, right?
Then why did you brag about being "recognized by the law"?
You are debauching the term "morality". That word does not describe someone who wants to see the slaughter of millions of unborn babies.
It's not surprising that one as prejudiced as you against unborn humans would also be so prejudiced against a whole region of the country.
You're really just full of hatred.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Who's the bigger monster? The person who's proud to have made the choice multiple times, or the person who advocates the saving of the unborn "babies" of said monsters?

reply from: yoda

The former. Babies of monsters are NOT monsters themselves.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

BORN people, mister. That's the difference. The unborn, they're not BORN. So yeah, if you want to say "kill" then fine. But the intention in abortion is not to kill, but to remove those things.
Morally I want to see more birth control and easy access to abortion to prevent people being in a world with limited resources and space.
Its called "dual meaning"!
I don't want to see the slaughter of millions of babies. The "unborn" are not human enough to be considered "babies" and they are not born. That's the whole point. They're not born, so they don't get no rights. None. Nada. Zip. Nothing!
You bet your ass I'm full of hatred! Hatred for those who want to tell me what I can do with my body and my products of conception! If I want to get them out of my womb who are you to tell me I can't??

reply from: prochoiceinNY

The former. Babies of monsters are NOT monsters themselves.
Yeah, but would you want to have a monster raise babies?
That's not very pro-life or pro-baby of you.

reply from: sk1bianca

well... i guess this shows what the so called "pro-choice" movement is all about...
are you really pro-choice? you make your cause look bad...

reply from: prochoiceinNY

People on your side of the fence bomb clinics and shoot doctors at churches, who's movement do you really think looks bad?

reply from: sk1bianca

there you go... changing the subject...

reply from: yoda

Riiiiight....... just like taking a fish out of water is done with the intention of "removing" it from the water....... oh yeah, that's proabort logic, all right.
So, why not just make it legal to start killing poor people? Or, why not make an example by starting with yourself?
We do not get "more human" as we age. There is no human being who is not "human enough". Being classified as Homo sapiens is not a matter of degree. Your desperation to denigrate the unborn seems boundless.
So far, there is no one to tell you that. But we are working on that, too. And it won't be an anonymous poster on an online forum that tells you that, it will be your friendly neighborhood prosecutor, when the time comes.

reply from: yoda

As opposed to killing them? Yes, absolutely.
But of course, most "monsters" give them up for adoption.

reply from: yoda

And they make our jobs much easier.....

reply from: prochoiceinNY

That is very, very scary!
What next, he's going to tell me what color pants I have to wear? Where I can go to work? What I can say in public? Hell, why not just take away my right to vote? In fact, take away everyone's vote and just have one guy in charge of everything!
And there are methods where women can abort in the privacy and safety of their homes, away from the prying eyes of prudes and crazy zealots! We've been doing it for thousands of years, we'll continue to do it, legal or not!

reply from: yoda

Good. That's supposed to be the effect of criminal laws, to scare people into abiding by the law who might otherwise break it.
If the sight of you in pants would scare someone to death, then the government ought to regulate that too. On the other hand, it's interesting that you would compare killing a baby to putting on a pair of pants.
Same is true of murder, kidnapping, rape, etc., etc......... proud?

reply from: ProInformed

People on your side of the fence bomb clinics and shoot doctors at churches, who's movement do you really think looks bad?
Um so do people on your side too.
Hint - if your only source of info so far has been the old biased media and the abortion industry lobby groups there are a lot of things they cover up.
There have been crisis pregnancy centers vandalized and pro-lifers attacked and even killed by choicist fanatics.
The fact that you didn't even know that indicates you've done little to no searching on your own for info.
Try some internet searches on the following things that the major media and the abortion industry doesn't tell the choicist sheeple:
pro-choice violence
real choice
feminists for life
atheists & agnostics for life
LEARN and stop being such a naive choicist sheeple!

reply from: ProInformed

Dutifully chanting slogans little Roe-bot...
the abortionists you are defending and the males you kill your babies for are laughing at you thinking you are in 'control' when they are the ones exploiting you.

reply from: ProInformed

As brave as those nuts outside the clinics that bang their fundy drums and scream murderer and whore at the poor girls who have to try and get through that throng?
And seriously? I've killed fish that weigh more then your little "babies" and I felt no remorse over a fish, why should I over something that can't even string two thoughts together?
Ah another one for the lunatic fringe thread.
Seriously sometimes I suspect the abortion industry would pay to shut you screechy choicist cultists up because you are destroying all the positive pr efforts they poured millions of dollars into over the years LOL.
Supposedly 'nobody's pro-abortion', and 'nobody hates unborn babies', and choicers are 'moderates'... Well you've certainly disproved those lies.

reply from: lukesmom

How many years have we been trying to find "common ground"? There is NO common ground while daily 4000 unborn humans are being killed by their mother's choice. "Common ground" is just a proabort ploy to continue exercising their "right" to kill others while having nice little chats with prolifers. Try selling your "common ground" stuff to the unborn waiting in the killing assembly line at abortion clinics.

reply from: Banned Member

That's crap, when have you ever tried to find common ground?Your idea of common ground is 'believe just as we believe or be damned'. That's not common ground. Maybe open your minds a little....it would go a long way.

reply from: sander

Don't even try and pretend you weren't holding up a mirror when you spewed that "crap".
Listen you dolt...there should never be common ground on killing innocnet children...but, then that just escapes your puny mind.

reply from: lukesmom

I have a little problem with opening my mind to killing of innocent humans. I know we differ there, thank heavens. I know you won't believe this but I really tried to convince myself to kill my unborn son, just had too much humanity to be able to actually do it. After his birth and death I also tried to understand the proabort reasoning by going to proabort boards. I was grieving and confused and trying to clarify where I actually stood in this conflict and had an open mind. Needless to say, the savagry I encountered was intense. The hatred and bloodthirsty attitude towards the unborn was more than I could handle and makes this board look like utopia.
So, maybe you should take a little of your own advise and open your mind and actually try to find common ground yourself instead of promoting abortion as a solution to crisis pregnancies.

reply from: faithman

I have a little problem with opening my mind to killing of innocent humans. I know we differ there, thank heavens. I know you won't believe this but I really tried to convince myself to kill my unborn son, just had too much humanity to be able to actually do it. After his birth and death I also tried to understand the proabort reasoning by going to proabort boards. I was grieving and confused and trying to clarify where I actually stood in this conflict and had an open mind. Needless to say, the savagry I encountered was intense. The hatred and bloodthirsty attitude towards the unborn was more than I could handle and makes this board look like utopia.
So, maybe you should take a little of your own advise and open your mind and actually try to find common ground yourself instead of promoting abortion as a solution to crisis pregnancies.
The call for common ground from "pro-life" is by 5th collum subversives who only want to take the wind out of the prolife sails. We have absolutly nothing in common with bortheads. We stand for the common humanity we share with the womb child. Those who would get in the way of their personhood for what ever reason, are their deadly enemies. Unfortunantly, many "conservatives", and "prolifers" fit in that collum just fine. When one denies common humanity, and personhood, for the most innocent among us, they give up their own. Just ask Tiller the ex-baby killer. OOOOPS to late...

reply from: 4choice4all

Fine...skip common ground....that just means you have to deal with legalized abortion on demand. You seem to forget that YOU are at the disadvantage...and will be for a long time to come. The common ground is OUR olive branch to YOU. You don't have to take it, of course........and the fact that you wouldn't even if it meant less abortions is very telling about who really has some blood on their hands. The olive branch could mean reducing the number of abortions.....which you would think you would want...but it's about "winning" for most of you and not at all about "saving lives". That's why no one bother's sitting at the table with you loons.....you're disingenuous. CP, CM, Yuuki and Faramir seem to genuinely care....if they can't end abortion they at least want to reduce it.

reply from: sk1bianca

here we go again... the magic vagina theory...

reply from: faithman

http://www.lifedynamics.com/Abortion_Information/Pro-life_Product/maafa.cfm

reply from: ProInformed

Well, when I first found out the truth about abortion I honestly tried to find some 'common ground' with 'pro-choice' groups and individuals, but THEY made it REALLY clear to me that they were not in the least bit interested in 'common ground'.
Their attitude was I'd better shut-up and put-up with whatever the abortion industry was doing or else. They were not the least bit interested in even pretending to oppose women being lied to or pressured to abort, for example. THAT would OBVIOUSLY be a way to 'reduce abortions', right? THAT should be something that both pro-lifers and pro-choicers should agree on, right?
I found out BECAUSE of the choicists' attitudes that they were not interested in 'common ground' if it meant they had to move in the slightest bit away from their rabidly pro-abort stance.
By 'common ground' choicists mean they want the pro-lifers to come on over to their side, or at least closer to it, NOT that they will compromise in the least.
Again, even on specific points such as it would be both pro-life and pro-choice to condemn, oppose, and reduce women being lied to and pressured to abort, the choicists refuse to budge, don't they? There has never been a choicist group supporting legislative efforts to stop the abortion industry from lying to women, never been a choicist group spending even a fraction of their ad budget chastising males who try to force women to abort, has there?
The truth is the pro-lifers, even ones who want all abortions banned, are the only ones who have supported efforts that should be supported by both pro-life and pro-choice alike. When pro-lifers introduce 'common ground' legislation such as the patient protection right of Informed Consent, the choicists oppose it instead of
meeting us halfway.
There have been LOTS of pro-life efforts that do not involve attempts to totally ban abortion asap, that just try to specifically reduce abortions when pregnant females are told the truth, protected from coercion, protected from being rushed with hard-sell tactics, and given other options.
And since MOST citizens, even many who call themselves pro-choice, do not support late-term abortions on demand and/or specific late-term abortion methods like partial birth abortion, the pro-life efforts to stop those abortions are more like 'common ground' efforts than 'anti-abortion extremism' too.
The thing is just because the 'moderates' and 'pro-choicers' refuse to join the pro-lifers in fighting the things that everyone except the most extreme pro-aborts should oppose, is not exactly proof that the pro-lifers are the ones who need to be chastised for not supporting 'common ground'.
The 'common ground' offers the choicists make are usually for things they know have caused increases in abortion rates BTW.

reply from: lukesmom

goes to show you don't know very much about many of the prolife posters on this forum. CP, CM, Yuki and Faramir are not the only ones here who work with women and children. There are many people here who work in practical ways to prevent abortions by actually helping women carry and raise their children. None of us do it for recognition and don't post what we do. It is a general inaccurate concept spread by the ignorant that prolifers do nothing practical to prevent abortion or help women in crisis pregnancies. I often find it funny proaborts know so little about actual prolife people.
What do you do to prevent abortions and help women? Escorting into abortion clinics doesn't count. Neither does spouting proabortion rhetoric.

reply from: yoda

Exactly. They have no interest in reducing abortions whatsoever. All their "common ground" talk is designed to sucker us in, and distract us from our goals, period.

reply from: 4choice4all

I'm not talking about their actions outside the board...I'm talking about their attitude...their willingness to actually look at the issue for what it is and not just scream about how we like death and blood. That might make you feel better but it doesn't get to the meat of the issue and certainly doesn't help anything.
Oh...just a note...I have no desire to decrease abortions.....abortions don't bother me. I do have the desire to see unintended pregnancies reduced and the use of birth control increase just from the perspective of it being healthier for women to control their reproductive health and take ownership of it.

reply from: lukesmom

And where is "the common ground"? Just as I thought...

reply from: yoda

It exists only in the minds of some very, very naive prolifers. The proaborts all know better, and laugh at the idea.

reply from: 4choice4all

My common ground is that I understand the other side is very passionate about ending abortion so for the sake of unity and humanity I can see opening dialogue on the issue. That's what you and your cohorts don't get. Agreeing to listen to an opposing idea or having respectful dialogue is NOT a concession about your convictions. I am vehemently and unapologetically prochoice....that won't change just because I participate in discourse...sheesh.

reply from: yoda

That we already know. So there really isn't any point, is there?

reply from: 4choice4all

Dense or obtuse? I can never tell with some of you here.
Dialogue isn't about changing minds.

reply from: faithman

The only log I want to dial for, is one big enough to get the job done.

reply from: Shenanigans

Well, you know what they say, have an open mind, just not so open your brain falls out.

reply from: faithman

Well, you know what they say, have an open mind, just not so open your brain falls out.
That ship done sailed long ago with this one.....

reply from: lukesmom

Who said it was? I just don't usually have time to waste on most proaborts overused hot air. You all say the same thing and most of it makes no sense or is so disgusting, it makes me sick. Whenever possible I tend to shy away from things that may make me physically ill. Believe it or not but your ideas and opinions aren't different from any of the other rabid proaborts here. Earlier today, I was thinking that the hardliner proaborts here have gotten pretty boring. It would be different if you all were willing to actually talk to us prolifers and listen to what we have to say and what we have experienced instead of insulting us with generalizations and trying to fit us all into your little peg boards. Yawn.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

So, do you assert that a woman who's water has already broken and is in labor can still ethically opt to have her offspring killed if that is her choice?
If its in her body, she can have it out, it that means killing it, fine, if it means she gives the thing up to someone else to raise, fine, if it means the state takes it, fine.
I support a woman's choice, whatever that choice is. I'm not that woman, I'm not her famiyl or friends, I'm not sure what's going on with her, so who am I to judge her for her choices?

reply from: prochoiceinNY

The SS and Gestapo were scary, but it didn't stop the resistance!!
Hehe, I don't wear pants at my job!!
No its not, because murder kills a PERSON, kidnapping takes a PERSON, rape harms a PERSON. PERSON!!! The POC aren't a PERSON. You have to be BORN to be a PERSON, the POC are NOT BORN therefore, NOT persons!
And I"m very proud of my pro-choice stance!!

reply from: faithman

The SS and Gestapo were scary, but it didn't stop the resistance!!
Hehe, I don't wear pants at my job!!
No its not, because murder kills a PERSON, kidnapping takes a PERSON, rape harms a PERSON. PERSON!!! The POC aren't a PERSON. You have to be BORN to be a PERSON, the POC are NOT BORN therefore, NOT persons!
And I"m very proud of my pro-choice stance!!
Bent over backwards crapping in your own mouth? Now there is a stance to be proud of.....

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Well, aren't you just the nice one.

reply from: 4choice4all

Sue....the irony is too much.

reply from: lukesmom

Yeah, ain't it though. Is there an actual reason you come here, other than to supposedly enlighten us with your great wealth of knowlege?

reply from: Shenanigans

Yeah, ain't it though. Is there an actual reason you come here, other than to supposedly enlighten us with your great wealth of knowlege?
Maybe she likes it when Faithman talks dirty?

reply from: galen

i can't wait untill the docs in Arkansas are able to communicate w/ the unborn... they already anesthitise those who are undergoing fetal surgery...when we can communicate w/ them as far as joy, pain comfort etc... mayhap then 4c will consider them 'persons'...

reply from: CDC700

Now THERE'S a big suprise!

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Wants it out, wants it dead, its the same thing so I don't really care. If she's happy with her choice to have the POC killed then great, more power to her! Roe vs. Wade has given her that right.
The thing doesn't have rights until its born. If the mother wants it dead, then yeah, she can have it killed, it may seem extreme, but its no more extreme then using a mouse trap to take care of the pests in your kitchen, some types will use a humane trap and then let the mouse go in the forest, some will use a snappy trap, each has the right to choose which method they feel comfortable with.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

A person is born. There's really nothing complicated about that. If you're born, and alive, you are a person. If you're unborn, you're not a person.
Simple as that.
And if some joke of a law was passed that said the POC was a person, then it still wouldn't matter, the POC are using another's body for their own benefit, that is simply not allowable. IF the woman doesn't want to gestate the POC then its her choice to kill it.

reply from: prochoiceinNY

Since its you lot who claim the POC should be a person, the burden of proof sits with you to prove it.

reply from: faithman

Since its you lot who claim the POC should be a person, the burden of proof sits with you to prove it.
Just click the blue text scanc.

reply from: Rosalie

There is no doubt YOU are (considered) a person and there is no doubt that I wouldn't let you use my body against my will, even if it meant your demise.

reply from: sander

There is no doubt YOU are (considered) a person and there is no doubt that I wouldn't let you use my body against my will, even if it meant your demise.
You would if you gave her an open invitation to do so, dumbass.
When you have sex that's what it is; an open invitation to become pregnant.
When are you idiots going to figure out no amount of word twisting is going to prove your points right.....

reply from: 4choice4all

Okay...abortion is a rescinded invitation then. (not imo though...because I don't think sex is an invitation to gestation...that's why we have birth control..to not be baby factories)
When is your side going to accept that you can't control other people's sexuality and reproduction?

reply from: sander

When is your violent side going to accept you can't MURDER innocent, helpless children.......

reply from: 4choice4all

Um, it's not murder....just ask Yoda

reply from: Rosalie

That is nothing but your opinion. And neither I nor anyone else cares for misogynistic opinions of sexist monsters like you.
And the fact is that even IF it was an open invitation, which it is not (your wishful thinking doesn't make it true), my point would still stand. I have the right to withdraw any invitation that concerns my own body.
Just because I 'invite' someone to use my body doesn't mean I can't change my mind. My body is still my body and I am the one who has the say so.
Now feel free to rage some more and spew more stupid insults that make you look even more pathetic than usual.
If those "innocent, helpless children" are inside of my body then I can by all means "murder" them. No one can use my body against my will, not even "innocent, helpless children".

reply from: sander

You did not just spew nothing but rage and then say I was raging....nothing like displaying your own hypocrisy for all to see, DUMBASS! LOL!!
If those "innocent, helpless children" are inside of my body then I can by all means "murder" them. No one can use my body against my will, not even "innocent, helpless children".
Apparently your buddy pcny has given you creatures the cojonies necessary to just come out and expose the cold black hearts and minds you vile creatures possess.
It takes the lowest life forms on earth to speak the way you people do.
But, the more you expose your vile hatred towards the innocent the higher the numbers are going to go in the polls for prolife.
Those numbers will soon translate into votes and votes will translate into over-turning your abilty to murder at will.
So, do keep up the good work, dumbass.

reply from: Rosalie

Your inability to tell apart 'rage' and 'a reply' does not come as a surprise considering that you are constantly unable to engage in anything that would at least slightly resemble a discussion.
You sound like a hateful, raging lunatic. Oh wait, you are 'pro-life', so that's pretty much the norm. Just like death threats, insults, lies, shooting people you disagree with, discrimination, hatred, agression etc. This is what people on the outside see when you say 'pro-life'. Especially those who have had the misfortune to observe the sample present on this forum.
Now go take your chill pill.

reply from: faithman

Your inability to tell apart 'rage' and 'a reply' does not come as a surprise considering that you are constantly unable to engage in anything that would at least slightly resemble a discussion.
You sound like a hateful, raging lunatic. Oh wait, you are 'pro-life', so that's pretty much the norm. Just like death threats, insults, lies, shooting people you disagree with, discrimination, hatred, agression etc. This is what people on the outside see when you say 'pro-life'. Especially those who have had the misfortune to observe the sample present on this forum.
Now go take your chill pill.
Go eat some baby brains.

reply from: sander

Your inability to tell apart 'rage' and 'a reply' does not come as a surprise considering that you are constantly unable to engage in anything that would at least slightly resemble a discussion.
You sound like a hateful, raging lunatic. Oh wait, you are 'pro-life', so that's pretty much the norm. Just like death threats, insults, lies, shooting people you disagree with, discrimination, hatred, agression etc. This is what people on the outside see when you say 'pro-life'. Especially those who have had the misfortune to observe the sample present on this forum.
Now go take your chill pill.
You really shouldn't talk about yourself that way. It's YOUR vile side that murders to the tune of 4,000 per day....now try and not mix up the violent with the peaceful anymore.
Go try and find something that will grow you a brain...next you can work on a heart.

reply from: Rosalie

Thanks for the laugh--again. I have to wonder what you think you're accomplishing right now.

reply from: sander

How do you manage to type and hold a mirror at the same time, idiot.

reply from: Rosalie

How do you manage to type and hold a mirror at the same time, idiot.
Nothing feels better around here on this forum than 'pro-lifers' showing their true colors.
So what do you think you're accomplishing right now?

reply from: sander

How do you manage to type and hold a mirror at the same time, idiot.
Nothing feels better around here on this forum than 'pro-lifers' showing their true colors.
So what do you think you're accomplishing right now?
I know your intellect is sub par, however, I thought you could at least read a simple sentence.
Guess not.

reply from: Rosalie

How do you manage to type and hold a mirror at the same time, idiot.
Nothing feels better around here on this forum than 'pro-lifers' showing their true colors.
So what do you think you're accomplishing right now?
I know your intellect is sub par, however, I thought you could at least read a simple sentence.
Guess not.
You haven't said anything except for insults.
But I guess you're too stupid to make posts with any other purpose than to insult.

reply from: faithman

How do you manage to type and hold a mirror at the same time, idiot.
Nothing feels better around here on this forum than 'pro-lifers' showing their true colors.
So what do you think you're accomplishing right now?
I know your intellect is sub par, however, I thought you could at least read a simple sentence.
Guess not.
You haven't said anything except for insults.
But I guess you're too stupid to make posts with any other purpose than to insult.
When it is all you deserve, what do you expect?!!!!

reply from: yoda

The only "common ground" that the proabort activists who post here are interested in is the ground in which aborted babies (or their ashes) are buried.
And they want that ground to be very, very bloody.

reply from: CDC700

I would be willing to bet they are one and the same. Both from NY, and both hate children. Really shouldn't say anything as this may be her way of coming out on what she has really done in her life.

reply from: ProInformed

The chanting choicists pretend to be for 'common ground' but they continue without restraint in their DAILY killing of thousands of innocent babies, unwilling to halt the violence they commit for even one day in order to have a 'common ground' discussion.
Meanwhile, obama, while he gives lip service to 'common ground' continues with his extremely pro-abort agenda without pause:
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=50061


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