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Tiller Eulogy - What a Saint

His presence will make Heaven better

by: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Tiller really received the praises at his funeral. More than one person said he was in "Heaven". One speaker said "Heaven" would be a better place because Tiller had now arrived there. Everybody wants a Tiller to brighten the day?!?! What a guy!
I wonder who the 60,000 on the sidelines were with heads and limbs ripped off? Never mind, they're not important.
All praise Tiller...the Killer!

reply from: Faramir

Do you believe the 60,000 have immortal souls?

reply from: galen

do you faramir
?

reply from: 4choice4all

What a beautiful testament to a heroic man.
I heard the only protesters were from crazy Westboro.

reply from: galen

while i do NOT advocate violence... i have to wonder... didn't Hitler's friends call him wonderfull too?
I can not wait for the transperency of this administration, to come out with what was really going on in that particular mill...
already more women he hurt are beginning to speak up..

reply from: Faramir

Yes, of course. And they are not now mutilated corpses.
I knew very little about Tiller, and I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt that he was only doing abortions in very severe situations, but the more I learn, the more I see that was not the case. If you have any sources you could direct me to where I could get verifiable information that he was peforming abortions when the mother and fetus were healthy, I would appreciate it. I would like to be able to refute those who see him as some kind of saint.
But the man is dead, and I think we should let his funeral and those who are grieving him alone.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Do you believe the 60,000 have immortal souls?
I believe our body is composed of energy that breaks down and decays. I believe our mind is composed of energy that does not break down and decay. However, God has the power to destroy even the mind. I believe the mind is not conscious without a body. I compare the mind to computer software and the body to computer hardware. The mind cannot see, hear, feel, sense, be conscious without a body. A physical body is composed of energy that breaks down. A spiritual body is a higher level of technology. A spiritual body is composed of energy that doesn't break down.
When one is born again with a spiritual body he shall live forever. Job gave a big clue that those raised up in the second resurrection will be in the flesh. They can either repent and receive eternal life (spiritual bodies) or be thrown into the fire if they are useless murderers (God destroys the spirit composed mind also).
When a person dies their spirit returns to God. God has the spirit for everyone who has died, including preborn children. The children have to, like sperm, live a short while in the flesh to determine if a grander creation will result.
It is my understanding that Satan himself shall suffer eternal death, in the sense that his existence ends forever. There are prophecies. It seems he shall end in a spontaneous combustion from the inside out.
If you have a Strong's Concordance you will find that God alone has immortality. Paul did say us mortal men must put on immortality.

reply from: 4choice4all

The issue of whether or not Tiller performed lawful abortions will never be resolved. They put him on trial and weren't happy with the outcome. The movement focused heavily on him so I don't know how it would possible for him to break the law and not have someone learn of it. They searched the trash of all the clinic employees...of Tiller. It was certainly a witch hunt. Not to mention....the prolife side will never agree with Tiller's assessment of what constituted the health of the mother. So there will always be arguments on that point.
The church was full...there was overflow that watched via cc tv. People met him, knew him and loved him. They knew he was a loving and kind man that simply believed in a woman's right to an abortion. He was not blood hungry. He was a husband, father and adoptive father and grandfather.

reply from: galen

I will not engage in anyone calling him a Saint...my beiefe system says that he may be in purgatory, but i can assure you it does not call for him in Heaven as yet.
Go to You tube... bunch of testimonials there... and you can use the search engine on this site... there are dozens and hundreds of posts to the exploits and tribulations of Tiller...
Its pretty amazing how many of those prochoicers that did not want to be associated with him, those who excluded him from any meaningfull conversation, can not wait to use him as a martyr now...
the latest You tube post on the man is a woman in a hospital room recovering from sepsis( nearly fatal) after Tiller and his staff started her abortion and then wanted her to go to a hospital ER to have it finished up there by the ER staff.. seems that there was a 'misunderstanding' of sorts.. and Tiller did not want to finish her surgcal procedure... He would have at the very least lost his licesnse over this one.

reply from: 4choice4all

Again,in order to believe that there is truth to this we have to believe that the entire legal process in Kansas is wholly corrupt and covering up. I do not. That would also include all the jurors that failed to find him guilty. And all the hospitals. Yes...youtube....quality information,right? Who took the videos? prolifers with an agenda? There is a reason he was free and in church and practicing medicine when he was killed....because all the talk of his illegalities were completely unfounded.
In my personal life I've never met any prochoice person that had a problem with Dr. Tiller.

reply from: galen

____________________
sorry he was at best a third rate physician... you can be the loving family man all you want, but i'm su8re some of Bin Ladin's family loves him too... Sadam's family loved himm...so what. The measure of a person is how thier life speaks to others, and 60,000.00 abortions is excessively high... especially when most were late term.. even if only 1% were viable.. that is how many murders?.. oh yeah...600

reply from: galen

_______________________
the hospital video was shot 1 week before he died... he never had to answer charges for that one...

reply from: 4choice4all

Sure...the one time he was guilty of something was the week before he died? how about, again, a witch hunt going no where? Charges were filed? no? hmmmmm......

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Do you believe the 60,000 have immortal souls?
I believe our body is composed of energy that breaks down and decays. I believe our mind is composed of energy that does not break down and decay. However, God has the power to destroy even the mind. I believe the mind is not conscious without a body. I compare the mind to computer software and the body to computer hardware. The mind cannot see, hear, feel, sense, be conscious without a body. A physical body is composed of energy that breaks down. A spiritual body is a higher level of technology. A spiritual body is composed of energy that doesn't break down.
When one is born again with a spiritual body he shall live forever. Job gave a big clue that those raised up in the second resurrection will be in the flesh. They can either repent and receive eternal life (spiritual bodies) or be thrown into the fire if they are useless murderers (God destroys the spirit composed mind also).
When a person dies their spirit returns to God. God has the spirit for everyone who has died, including preborn children. The children have to, like sperm, live a short while in the flesh to determine if a grander creation will result.
It is my understanding that Satan himself shall suffer eternal death, in the sense that his existence ends forever. There are prophecies. It seems he shall end in a spontaneous combustion from the inside out.
If you have a Strong's Concordance you will find that God alone has immortality. Paul did say us mortal men must put on immortality.
I would be curious to know how a Catholic or other immortal soul, purgatory believing individual would take my belief system. I believe my understanding is based on what I read and how I interpret/understand it.
For full disclosure, Herbert W. Armstrong, 1892-1986, founder of "Armstrongism" had the same beliefs.

reply from: Faramir

I used to listen to a radio program years ago that was very interesting and I think it had somethign to do with Armstrong, or maybe he was the speaker too.
I've come to believe in an immortal soul that lives on in some form of consciousness after death, awaiting to reunited with a risen incorruptible body.
Didn't Jesus, when he died, visit the souls of the dead and release them?
But I admit I have lately been pondering the idea of the brain and consciousness and how so much of what we are can be attributed to the brain. If you play around with someone's brain, you can even change their personality. If the soul has its own form of awareness, why isn't it awake when the body sleeps?
So while I do believe in an immortal soul, I admit it presents difficulties that I can't explain.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I used to listen to a radio program years ago that was very interesting and I think it had somethign to do with Armstrong, or maybe he was the speaker too.
I've come to believe in an immortal soul that lives on in some form of consciousness after death, awaiting to reunited with a risen incorruptible body.
Didn't Jesus, when he died, visit the souls of the dead and release them?
But I admit I have lately been pondering the idea of the brain and consciousness and how so much of what we are can be attributed to the brain. If you play around with someone's brain, you can even change their personality. If the soul has its own form of awareness, why isn't it awake when the body sleeps?
So while I do believe in an immortal soul, I admit it presents difficulties that I can't explain.
In the OT it says, "In the day that a man dies his thoughts perish."
That seemed quite straight-forward to me.
Modern translators sometimes tranlate it; "In the day a man dies his plans perish." That puts a little different twist on it, one that allows for the translator's belief that consciousness goes on.
My belief is in the potential to inherit eternal life.
The description of death as being the blackest darkness in the Book of Jude leaves me with a picture of complete total unconciousness as the reservation for the wicked.
The Bible says the dead now "sleep". The dead are just like people who are sleeping, except without any dreams or thoughts of any kind.
There is a future resurrection, at which time the dead will awake, they will be given bodies. The mind, like software, cannot do it's work without a body (hardware).

reply from: galen

________________________________
no but even you must admit that the courts in thes country have been wrong before... did OJ get a fair trial....? What about all those innocent people out there in prison who should be out and those out who should be in... go cry your tears for the real victims in our society 4choice... MR Tiller was no innocent.
Some of Tiller's victims have been on CNN etc... so i suppose ALL media will ahev to be suspect .
BTW the you tube case may still go after the clinic in court... those people are still alive.. stay tuned.. i see a heafty malpractice award at the very least.

reply from: galen

And who remembers the infant born alive at his clinic who had needles shoved in her head, while he desprately tried to kill her....?
she did eventually die from her injuries years later... after being adopted and provided a loving home..

reply from: galen

here it is.. sarah Brown...
Sarah Brown: A Silent Witness to the Pro-life Cause
By Liz Townsend, National Right to Life News
One-month-old Jacob would not be alive today if it weren't for little Sarah Brown. Jacob's mother had scheduled an abortion but then heard Sarah's remarkable story of having survived an abortion attempt. When she saw the precious little girl, instead of keeping the appointment, Jacob Alan's mother gave him the gift of life.
Marykay Brown, Sarah's adoptive mother, told NRL News this was just one example of the many people whose lives her daughter touched during her brief life. Sarah, who was five, died September 28 from complications stemming from the abortion attempt. Yet as Mrs. Brown and her family continue to speak about Sarah to audiences across the country, her story will continue to touch hearts and change lives.
Sarah's story begins July 13, 1993. She had spent 36 peaceful weeks in her mother's womb before the needle filled with poison stabbed her in the brain three times. By all odds the assault should have killed her, but something inside Sarah refused to give up. Two days later she was born in a Wichita, Kansas, hospital.
Sarah's birth mother signed away her rights to her daughter almost as soon as the seven-pound, five-ounce abortion survivor was born with visible puncture wounds above her left eyebrow and at the base of her skull. Without knowing her whole story or the extent of her injuries, Bill and Marykay Brown obtained temporary custody of the little girl within 24 hours of her birth and adopted her 30 days later. The Browns heard about Sarah from a pro-life attorney who knew they wanted to adopt a special-needs child.
The toxin that the abortionist injected into her brain caused injuries that became apparent and progressively worse as Sarah grew. "For the first few months she seemed to be progressing normally, although she was blind," said Marykay Brown. "She had acute hearing, and was beginning to try to speak."
However, at about five or six months Sarah suffered a stroke from which she never fully recovered. Brown said she showed awareness of her environment and her family, but never spoke or walked.
"She recognized us and learned to smile," Mrs. Brown said.
Sarah also discovered a unique way of communicating. A machine monitored her at night and would sound an alarm if Sarah stopped breathing. "She learned that if she held her breath the monitor would go off," Brown said. "We would jump out of bed and she would be grinning at us. That was how she got attention."
The Browns' seven other children, ranging in age from 18 to 12, accepted Sarah into their hearts too. "I can't remember a time when someone wasn't holding her, talking to her, playing with her," Brown told NRL News. "Sarah was the baby of the family. We're all having a real hard time coping with her death."
Sarah had progressive airway disease, caused when she ingested some of the poison during the abortion attempt. Before her death she spent a short time in the hospital and the family knew she was getting weaker, according to Brown. Sarah died at home on the morning of September 28, surrounded by her loving family. "Sarah died the most peaceful death," Brown said. "There was no struggling. All of us were with her."
Sarah's corneas were donated to two children. "It does my heart good that there are children who can see because of Sarah," Brown said. "A little girl who was blind gave sight to someone."
Sharing her story has helped Brown cope. "Each time I speak about her it gets a little bit easier," she said.
But sharing Sarah's remarkable story helps Marykay Brown in still another way. She also speaks about her own abortion when she was 19 and the long road she traveled to healing.
"It has come full circle for me," Brown said. "I talk about what it's like to be post-abortive and about the forgiveness God gives and also about abortion from the child's point of view. I've watched Sarah change people's lives."
The Browns have also begun to spread the message of hope and healing on an individual level by helping pregnant women in crisis with financial and other assistance. They started a group called Sarah Ministries and are currently helping three women whose babies are due next spring. Marykay Brown said they hope to expand this ministry and give women the help they need to choose life.
"I believe Sarah's ministry will mushroom now that she's gone," Brown said. "She's an advocate in heaven now."
Anyone interested in inviting the Browns to speak should call Lynn Vorak at (316) 722-8513. To contribute to the Browns' ministry, write to Sarah Ministries, Acct. #64207412, c/o Imprise Bank, 100 N. Meridian, Valley Center, KS 67417.

reply from: galen

another story on the same case...
The story of Sarah Brown
California Right to Life
Baby girl Sarah was born on July 15, 1993, in Wichita, Kansas. She had survived a late term abortion attempt on her 15 year old mother. The infant's mother had been brought nine hundred miles by her parents, to the office of George Tiller, infamous late term abortionist of Wichita, Kansas. This is the same clinic and the same abortionist who recently was contacted by Arizona authorities to commit a late term abortion on a 14 year old Arizona ward of the courts who was 26 weeks pregnant.
The partial-birth abortion procedure was not yet in vogue. Sarah, as she was later named by her adoptive parents, was already positioned in the womb to be born. The abortionist injected the baby's head, in two places, the left side of her forehead above the eyebrow and at the base of the skull, with potassium Chloride, leaving permanent burn marks and needle track scars. The pregnant 15 year old left the office with the admonition to return the next day for the completion of the abortion.
Much to everyone's dismay, the baby had not died in the intervening hours, but was still alive. The 15 year old was sent to the local hospital where the baby was eventually born. The delivery room staff, familiar with handling Tiller's mistakes, wrapped up the baby, set her in a bassinet and left her without attendance. The 15 year old girl and her parents went home.
Twenty-four hours later though she had not been cleaned up, the umbilical cord had been improperly severed and she had had no nourishment, Sarah continued to live. A nurse in the newborn unit of the hospital finally took pity on the child. She called an attorney with whom she was familiar and explained the situation. The attorney called Bill and Mary Kay Brown and asked them to come to the hospital and rescue this remarkable child.
Though hospital staff predicted that the baby would not survive more than 8 weeks,Bill and Mary Kay and their seven children took Sarah home, adopted her and loved her till the day she died of kidney failure, at age five. If she had received attention during that 24 hour period, some of the effects of the brain damage might have been lessened. Only when the Brown's filed for adoption was the child issued a birth certificate.
The potassium Chloride destroyed the left portion of Sarah's brain leaving her blind, unable to walk and totally dependent upon the love and care of others. She required 15 different types of medication, two and three times a day, to synthetically replace what had been destroyed. Bill and Mary Kay took turns, even through the night, repositioning Sarah in her bed so that she never got bed sores. She required an apnea monitor and a heart and lung machine recording her oxygen levels. Because of the damage to her brain her physical growth was impaired. At age five she weighed 25 lbs and was the size of a two year old.
The Browns insurance company refused to include Sarah in the family's coverge. She was provided with health care coverage by Bill Brown's company, but at age 4, removed from coverage when her medical expenses became to costly. Mary Kay claims that it was, once again, the pro life community and local, private agencies who provided the most financial and compassionate support.
Sarah had two funeral services, one in the Southern Baptist church of her father, Bill Brown, and the second in the Catholic church of her mother, Mary Kay, presided over by Wichita Bishop, Eugene Gerber. Between the two services eight hundred people attended Sarah's funeral.
Mary Kay claims that the hardest part of caring for Sarah was the verbal abuse the family endured from strangers. From, as she put it, other pro death people. The Browns moved from Wichita to Valleycenter, a rural farming community, because of a particularly ugly encounter with someone claiming that the Browns had done Sarah an injustice allowing her to live.
According to Mary Kay, Sarah was never viewed as a burden by any member of her family. What with seven other children and help from members of the local and pro life community, there was always someone around to hold, talk to or touch Sarah. During the adoption procedures it was necessary to subpoena the birth mother's medical records. There was nothing in the record to indicate that any of the medical problems faced by Sarah were genetic or inherited in any way. She would have been a normal, blue eyed, reddish blonde haired little girl.
Mary Kay's brother summed up everbody's feelings at the funeral when he declared that George Tiller had succeeded in killing Sarah, it just took him five years to do it.
Sarah was buried at Resurrection Cemetery in Wichita. Her grave site is within ten feet of another grave where twins are buried. These two little girls died as a result of the effects of previous abortions on their mother.
The state of Kansas has nothing to say about the activities of George Tiller. According to a judge, Tiller did nothing wrong. Sarah Ministries, begun by Mary Kay and Bill, during Sarah's life time, grew out of a conviction that they had to try to prevent this happening to any other child. Mary Kay has opened her home to pregnant women, providing them with love, parenting classes, medical attention, jobs, housing, whatever the woman needs. Sarah Ministry has provided services to about 25 women age 12 years to 35 years. Many of the women helped had been scheduled at Tiller's clinic.
Mary Kay is a regular sidewalk counselor outside Tiller's clinic. The day that the Arizona girl arrived at the clinic 175 were there, standing in the rain, praying and witnessing to the value of life. Unfortunately that baby was not spared.
Sarah Ministries is a legally created non profit organization able and eager to receive tax deductible contributions to continue its services to pregnant women.Mary kay states that none of the funds is used for salaries. It is all used for the pregnant women.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The story of Sarah Brown"
MONTFORT Associação Cultural
http://www.montfort.org.br/index.php?secao=imprensa&subsecao=mundo&artigo=19980928&lang=eng
Online, 06/06/2009 às 18:25h

reply from: galen

i guess one of those dreaded complications.....
now this was just 1 child who lived. ( there have been others)... so 4choice why don't you just go ahead and tell us how great your guy is ... really go on and describe how he is the light of the world..

reply from: galen

a link w/ other links inside... Tiller speaking at a confrence...
http://www.voteyesforlife.com/NewsPages/news_025.html

reply from: 4choice4all

Tiller didn't have one trial...he didn't perform one abortion....he performed, according to everyone here, 60k...and no prosecutions? It's not like Oj killed 60k wives and kept getting off. Tillers "victims" are not the victim of any crime...Dr. Tiller was not found guilty of anything.
I don't understand why you are bringing up Sarah Brown. The abortion failed..she was born..where's the crime?

reply from: galen

posted on OR site
Misdiagnosis raises more questions about the legality of Tiller's late-term abortion operation.
Last September, a 22-year old woman and her mother arrived at George Tiller's Women's Health Care Services in Wichita, Kansas, for an abortion. The pregnant woman had been sent to Tiller's abortion mill by a doctor in Reno, Nevada, who had told her that her baby suffered from dwarfism, water on the brain, and a number of other fetal abnormalities. He also told her that if she attempted to deliver the baby at term, she could die. Fearful for her life, the woman made the trip to Wichita, KS.
At the abortion clinic gate, sidewalk counselor Judi Weldy offered literature to the women, who stopped to talk. They explained that they were Christians who would not have considered abortion, but they felt like there was no choice since it was a medical necessity.
Judi referred the women to Choices Medical Clinic, a pro-life clinic directly next door to WHCS that provides free 4-D ultrasounds. That clinic also has one of the only peri-natal hospice programs in the nation, and is uniquely equipped to properly counsel women facing pregnancies complicated by fetal anomalies.
The women agreed to go for the ultrasound. They called WHCS to cancel their appointment, but Tiller's receptionist told the women they would keep their appointment open so they could come back in the afternoon, if they wanted.
The ultrasound showed that the baby might indeed have dwarfism, but had none of the other conditions the woman had been told. The baby was clearly a little boy! The physician on duty at Choices Medical Center examined the woman and told her he saw no medical reason why she could not have a normal, safe delivery.
The young mother had been told that she was in her fifth month of pregnancy and that her abortion would cost a total of $7,000. However the ultrasound revealed that she was actually 24 weeks along, which would have put her over the legal limit for a late-term abortion in Kansas. If the abortion had been done, it would have been illegal.
The women were relieved, and shared the good news with sidewalk counselor Donna Lampkin. They accepted Donna's gift of baby clothes and a blanket, then happily returned home without the abortion.
Last week Tim Weisner, the director of Choices Medical Clinic, received news that the young woman had given birth to a perfectly healthy baby. The baby had no signs of dwarfism at all! Both mother and baby are happy and well.
Kansas law prohibits abortions after 22 weeks of pregnancy on viable babies. The only exceptions are to save the mother's life, or to prevent a "substantial and irreversible impairment" to the mother's physical or mental health. Clearly this pregnancy did not meet any of those exceptions, however, WHCS was all too willing to do all they could to supply this woman with an abortion.
"How many more women has this happened to? Fetal anomaly is not legal reason to abort a viable baby in Kansas, yet it appears these kinds of abortion take place on a routine basis." asked Operation Rescue President Troy Newman. "This is why a full investigation into Tiller's late-term abortion operation is so vitally important."
Tiller currently faces 19 criminal charges of illegal late-term abortions, and is the subject of an ongoing grand jury investigation.

reply from: galen

________________________
Duh.. stabbing a healthy infant at 36 weeks in the head with potassium chloride... under Kansas law she was too far along to be aborted..the mom while 15 YO was healthy... there was no medical reason to kill the child.

reply from: 4choice4all

What in the world did the last story have to do with Tiller? The other doctor misdiagnosed her. Tiller hadn't seen her according to your article. Not to mention this is unsubstantiated.
I still think Dr. Tiller was a great man that did great things.

reply from: galen

_____________________________-
BTW you just don't get it... you have no conscience as far as i'm concerned... possibly you need more time with your family instead of staying online so much...? every time i am here here you are... and every time my kids are on or my husband here you are... don't you have young kids? who watches them when you are on the computer so much?

reply from: 4choice4all

Ha....lose an argument, try an insult...you are so transparent.

reply from: galen

_____________________
Hah i bet you did.. edited post for miswriting

reply from: galen

____________________
I did not loose... i'm just wondering... not insulting... but maybe your just feeling frothy again..

reply from: CDC700

Tiller WAS prosecuted, just not legally. The POS is DEAD and he can't kill babies anymore.

reply from: 4choice4all

Ok...you fail to be able to continue the discussion so you divert from the topic to move to something personal. It's blatant and commonplace. No worries, my house is in order.

reply from: galen

uhhh.. Tiller was nOt prosecuted and violence only begets violence...
CDC... looks like you need to be on the Fibbies list...

reply from: galen

____________________
Really?
would you have aborted had you known what you know now?

reply from: galen

Don't put out personal stuff if you can not handle it being used...
best just to keep quiet and go away if you are going to whine about it.
Dr tiller was a medical monster...

reply from: galen

Anyone out there should be moved by the number of mistakes that are made out in the abortion world today. THAT ALONE should say that possibly we should not be preforming a procedure that complicates the lives of so many women and ends the lives of so many children....
Yes we should provide birth controll, and Yes we should provide support. We should NEVER EVER consider killing viable children.
If the story of baby Sarah tells you nothing else , it gives a brief glimps into the man they burried today...a man that seemed to have no compassion for the little lives he was murdering, only compassion for the almighty dollars that thier families brought to him... 20 week AB would cost you about 2000.00... cash or credit only please... YOU get to file your own insurance.

reply from: galen

and for those of you who feel Tiller was a saint ...
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/oct/26/antikline_mailings_linked_tiller/?elections_2006

By Scott Rothschild
October 26, 2006
Topeka - Who is behind mailings and ads in the attorney general's race is about as clear as the mud being thrown by the candidates.
Republican Atty. Gen. Phill Kline and Democrat Paul Morrison, the Johnson County district attorney, are locked in a bitter campaign that has attracted special interest groups that aren't what they appear to be.
Advertisement
On Wednesday, it was revealed that Kansans for Consumer Privacy Protection - the group responsible for the recent "Snoop Dog Kline" mailings criticizing Kline - is linked to George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who specializes in late-term abortions.
And the group responsible for recent ads that accuse Morrison of being soft on crime operates from K Street in Washington, D.C., and is bankrolled by some of the largest corporate interests in the nation.
Brooks Jackson, director of the nonpartisan and nonprofit FactCheck.org, said voters need to be wary of what they see, hear and read during the campaigns.
"Stay very skeptical and be aware that some of this false stuff is going to seep into your brain. It's an insidious thing, and it's very powerful," Jackson said.
FactCheck.org monitors the accuracy of political ads and statements and is part of the Washington, D.C.-based Annenberg Public Policy Center.
Tiller money
Kline's campaign said Tiller was trying to hide his efforts opposing Kline through a group called Kansans for Consumer Privacy Protection.
"This is evidence that George Tiller is beginning his back-door assault on the attorney general," said Kline spokeswoman Sherriene Jones.
Kansans for Consumer Privacy Protection has the same office address as ProKanDo, a political action committee, or PAC, started and financed by Tiller. Shortly after taking office in 2003, Kline, an ardent abortion opponent, launched a secret inquisition into clinics run by Tiller and Planned Parenthood.
Race for Attorney General
Questions and answers from Kline following Tuesday's AG debate (10-25-06)
New Kline ad called a 'jaw dropper' (10-24-06)
Crime bill rears its head as race heats up (10-22-06)
Stovall endorses Morrison (10-20-06)
Soccer moms may provide election kick (10-21-06)
Full coverage of the Attorney General race
Transcript of chat with Attorney General Phill Kline (10-09-06)
Candidate: Phill Kline (Republican)
Candidate: Paul Morrison (Democrat)
Candidate selector: See whose positions you agree with
Kline sought the medical records of 90 women and girls, saying he was investigating allegations of child rape and illegal late-term abortions.
The clinics challenged subpoenas for the medical records, saying Kline was on a fishing expedition. Morrison has said the inquisition was part of Kline's political agenda and an "abuse of authority."
'Snoop Dog'
In recent days, Kansans for Consumer Privacy Protection has mailed campaign pieces critical of Kline, saying that while the attorney general was prying into medical records, crime was on the rise.
The group has not registered with the Kansas Governmental Ethics Commission. It doesn't have to because it is not specifically advocating voting for or against a candidate.
The address on the group's mailing is 6505 E. Central, No. 106, in Wichita. The group filed as a corporation with the Kansas Secretary of State's office Aug. 28 with the address of 555 N. Woodlawn St., Suite 215, Wichita. That is the same address on ProKanDo's registration as a PAC, according to state officials.
Morrison's campaign said it had no dealings with Kansans for Consumer Privacy Protection.
"I'm not familiar with the group," Morrison spokesman Mark Simpson said. "But a lot of people have problems with Phill Kline's serious invasion of privacy."
ProKanDo v. Kline
Tiller's PAC, ProKanDo, was founded in 2002 to help elect candidates who support abortion rights.
Julie Burkhart, chairwoman of ProKanDo, did not return a phone call seeking comment. On ProKanDo's Web site, Burkhart says: "Kansas is now on the frontlines in the national battle for women's rights. Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline is on a crusade to glorify his personal political agenda by trampling on the rights of women."
In 2002, Tiller contributed more than $150,000 to try to defeat Kline. The funds went through ProKanDo to another PAC called Kansans for Democratic Leadership, which bought radio ads touting Democratic attorney general candidate Chris Biggs.
Biggs, who was relatively unknown statewide, came within a few thousand votes of defeating Kline.
Kline backers
Meanwhile, a group called the Republican State Leadership Committee has been running an ad saying Morrison is soft on crime.
The committee is a so-called 527 group, an independent political committee that isn't restricted by federal campaign contribution limits. It is among the top fundraisers in national politics and receives most of its money from corporate interests.
Morrison has said the Republican State Leadership Committee has spent about $1 million in television advertising against him in Kansas. The group's spending won't be disclosed until a Monday filing deadline.
Jones, the spokeswoman for Kline, said the Kline campaign has had nothing to do with the group. But she said the group supports Kline because he opposes frivolous lawsuits.
The group's ad, however, focuses on a crime bill that was approved in 2003 in Kansas.

reply from: galen

from OR site.
Topeka, Kansas - A former patient of abortionist George R. Tiller gave jaw-dropping testimony before a joint interim legislative committee today, telling the detailed story of her late-term abortion experience that obviously violated the Kansas ban on such abortions at nearly every turn.
"This is perhaps the most explosive testimony that has every been heard at the Capitol. Based on this testimony alone, Tiller's medical license should not survive to the end of the day," said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman. "We demand that the Board of Healing Arts take immediate action to stop Tiller from victimizing any more people as this young lady was victimized."
The woman, Michelle Armesto Berge, appeared with her attorney, and told the committee of her abortion that took place at Tiller's Women's Health Care Services in May, 2003, while she was 18 and about to graduate from High School. Michelle related how her parents were upset to discover that she was pregnant and immediately began to pressure her into an abortion that she didn't want at 26 weeks into her pregnancy. Michelle's boyfriend opposed the abortion and had planned with Michelle to marry and raise their child together.
Michelle's mother discovered George R. Tiller on the Internet and arranged for Michelle to have an abortion there the following Tuesday. After several days of nearly constant pressure and coercion, and fearing the loss of her family's love, Michelle relented to their demands.
Michelle and her mother became lost on the way to the abortion clinic and arrived two hours late for her appointment. Upon arrival, she was placed immediately into a group with several other women also receiving late-term abortions who were in the process of watching a video about the Tiller abortion legacy.
From there, without having spoken to anyone or signed any paperwork, Michelle was taken to a room with an ultrasound machine. She was prevented from seeing the viewing screen by the clinic worker who did her ultrasound. At that time, abortionist Shelly Sella came in and administered the injection through her abdomen into her baby's heart that immediately killed her child. Sella is a California abortionist who travels to Wichita every third week to do abortions for Tiller at his late-term abortion mill.
After receiving the fatal injection, Michelle was sent to the receptionist to fill out her paperwork and consent forms. There was no effort before the injection to insure that Michelle was over 18, or that she suffered from any kind of condition that would meet the legal requirement of "substantial and irreversible impairment," either physically or mentally, for an abortion after 22 weeks. She told the committee that at no time was she asked medical questions, but was asked questions only of a social nature.
In the three to four minutes that she spent with Tiller during her three-day stay, he told her that if one of his children were in her situation, he would have them get an abortion as well. Another clinic worker told her that if she had the baby, her life would be over and that she would never be able to go to college.
Michelle delivered at the abortion clinic on the third day of the procedure. She refused to deliver her baby into a toilet bowl, as ordered by clinic workers. Instead she delivered her dead baby on the floor next to the commode, a sight that still haunts her to this day.
A minister from the Unity Church met with Michelle and told her that God would forgive her for her abortion, but he never asked her questions or even inquired about how she was doing.
Because Michelle's mother was set to graduate from college the following day, Michelle was released a day earlier than she normally would have been released, with the verbal promise that she would seek follow-up care in one week. However, because of turmoil in her family and embarrassment over her abortion, she did not get follow-up care. She stated that Tiller's office never called her to even ask how she was or if she had indeed made the follow-up appointment.
Earlier this year, Michelle requested her medical records from Women's Health Care Services and was shocked to learn that her healthy 26-week baby had been diagnosed as "not viable" by Sella. This designation allowed Tiller and his staff to circumvent the Kansas ban on abortions of viable babies after 21 weeks, a gestational milestone that is considered the earliest a baby can survive outside the womb if born.
Michelle did not receive a second opinion as required by law for post 21-week abortions, and she was never diagnosed with any condition that would have met the "substantial and irreversible impairment" standard in the law.
Michelle agreed to make her medical records available to the committee.
Rep. Jene Vickery commented that it seemed her abortion was done without any consideration of the laws of Kansas. Every member of the committee seemed to be on the edge of their seats during Michelle's testimony.
Michelle indicated that after reading the law that bans late-term abortions, she believes that the law failed to protect her and her baby from an unwanted abortion that has caused her painful consequences. She expressed that she is equally upset at her parents for pressuring her to abort and Tiller for allowing the abortion to take place.
"Michelle's emotional testimony is perhaps the most compelling evidence to date that Tiller has committed illegal abortions while the authorities have refused to enforce the law," said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman. "Her testimony was a powerful indictment against those in Kansas that have the authority to enforce the law and protect people like Michelle, but instead look the other way. If they cannot feel shame over what their inaction has done to Michelle and her little baby, then may God have mercy on their souls. If this isn't the end of George Tiller, then there is no justice in Kansas."

reply from: 4choice4all

Complications occur in birth...often...and yet we don't talk about preventing childbirth from being legal. A million abortions a year...there will be complications...every surgical/medical procedure has risks and complications.

reply from: galen

As someone else wrote.. but i concurr...
'Tiller may have had the right to live.. but we also have the right to criticize how he lived.'

reply from: galen

__________________________
I gave you a hypothetical... if you knew then... say 20 weeks into your pregnancy... what you know now...would you have aborted?
artfully dodged.. sort of.

reply from: 4choice4all

I'm not getting your question.....are you asking me if I would've aborted my children? Of course not, I wanted to be pregnant with each one. I have never had an unwanted pregnancy.

reply from: Banned Member

Conceived human persons have souls.

reply from: BossMomma

What is heroic about Tiller? He killed nearly full term infants. Guy is disgusting.

reply from: Shenanigans

I just vomited a little into my mouth.

reply from: 4choice4all

He felt a moral obligation to provide his services to women and even when stalked, shot and targeted he continued to do so. That's a hero,imo.

reply from: Shenanigans

His "services" were killing children.
That's not exactly heroic.

reply from: 4choice4all

his services were providing abortions to women seeking them.

reply from: Shenanigans

And abortion kills an unborn children... and around we go again.

reply from: 4choice4all

But you wondered how I or anyone could call him a hero...and that's easy to see if you believe that abortion if morally acceptable and not the murder of a child. I get why YOUR side doesn't view him as a hero though.

reply from: Shenanigans

I understand where you're coming from.
You view abortion as a service.
A service Tiller refused to back down from and provided against death threats.
But he provided a service that is morally repugnant, regardless of its legality.
OF course, what's that saying, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

reply from: 4choice4all

It's only repugnant to those that believe it's a child no different than a born child. And in general, prochoicers don't. If we believed as you do...that the born and unborn are no different...then we would find it as repugnant...I know I would.

reply from: galen

4choice you sound almost exactly like those Nazis on trial after WWII...really if you translate it from german, you and they are really no diffrent... not me!,not me! not him!, just following orders... but it was leagal in my country!..etc.
you do realise how pathetic it is?
even if you didn't have compassion for the children slaughtered , you should at least have compassion for the women who were torured by his methods... I mean really , in medical school you are taught to never do half of what he did without anesthesia.. yet we have many reports of women who while they were happy they were no longer pregnant, were horrified they were not fully sedated and remembered the indignityies of his staff and clinic. Al the very least you could have had compassion for them...i am beginning to see you , not as a person of compassion and empathy for your fellow humans, but as a person who wants everyone to percieve her as such, and a person who walks the walk but just can't figure out the words.

reply from: 4choice4all

LOL...did you read Faramir's post on the Hitler issue?
You are asking me to have compassion for situations a prolife side claims ...knowing that they are not above lying to make a point...or at the very least, exploiting a half truth...or even better....exploiting a woman after her abortion.
Complications happen....and I feel sorry for women that experience complications during an abortion...just as I feel for women that experience complications during childbirth. But we don't denounce the decision because there are complications. We don't tell our daughters to never have children because some women die...or because it's painful...or because some women experience PPD. Life isn't a neat package.....every choice we make sometimes has consequences. We try to negate them and have compassion for those that experience them.

reply from: Rosalie

So you think it's okay to use someone's personal information against them, to drag their own families into an argument just because you disagree with them?
You're so wretched.

reply from: galen

Tiller had no compassion, muany of his complications were sent to a local ER with no medical records, no call to the ER to explain what had happened and no real treatment for sepsis, pnuemothorax due to clots, bleeding issues, etc.
you really should LOOK at whom you are defending and what he really did , instead of just blindly defending someone whose track record you do not know. I would have respected your postition a bit if you at least were defending the doctor Paul Hill shot... ( i did), for he did not have such an abyssmal record... however i can not fathom how you could actually look at the medical career of geoerge tiller ( after the navy) and see anyone but a horrible physician who deserved to have his licesnse removed. Unfortunately this country has a history of credentialling bad doctors and protecting them at all costs... it does not mean however that thier patients should not be protected from them... his license should have been pulled... mayhap then the vigilanty would have left him alone.

reply from: galen

So you think it's okay to use someone's personal information against them, to drag their own families into an argument just because you disagree with them?
You're so wretched.
___________________________________
Yes its fair game if they post it... you guys have tried it against lots of us... the only time i will defend that is if it is a child on this board who posted without his/ her parents permission... as has happened in the past... other than that its fair game... hell many of the prochoicers gave me hell when i had a brain tumour... even on PMs ... i took it why shouldn't you?

reply from: galen

4choice... i've looked for the Faramir posts you refrenced on this thread.. and its not where i can find it... link please?
or are you thread hopping?

reply from: 4choice4all

Again....you are BIASED. You insist on regurgitating lies told by prolifers that believe Tiller was Hitler. Why would he be in good standing at hospitals if he were nothing more than a heartless butcher? Because all the local hospitals are in on it? Why was he not in jail? Oh...because the police, prosecutors, judges and jurors were also all in on it. Right. Because the people of Kansas, of all places, were so enamored with being the late term abortion mecca that they would never want to rid themselves of that reputation. Or maybe because despite the enormous effort to demonize the man...he was actually a wonderful doctor. You have listened to the lies and half truths so long you believe them. Who is following BLINDLY? This distortion lead to the mans death. We need to demand more from both sides. Truth, transparency and honest dialogue.

reply from: galen

Tiller had no hospital priiveleges.. he was NOT in good standing..
And yes.. this man was no better than the 1,000 physicians in this country today that are practiesing medicine badly, or without a license... they should ALL be removed.
No one was enamoured of him... most docs would not even speak to him or attend functions with him. He was a piriah in his own community...one where hundreds of people turned out for his funeral...who those from his church? the medical community? not really... those people were so enamoured of what he was doing they would fly in docs from other states so he could operate on thousands each years.... you obvioulsy do not know the medical community in Kansas as well as you THINK you do... they were VERY emabarrassed...many of the ones i knew from Wichita would not even mention where they were from in confrences because they were afraid of being associated with him...

reply from: galen

NO i never listen just to what people have said about this....I live not so far from this man's mill and got to sweep up the pieces of sevearl women ( mentally) he traumatised...No i got to see first hand what type of physician he really was.

reply from: Rosalie

You truly are messed up. I suppose that whenever everyone needs to know what kind of a person you are, it's pretty much enough to quote this post of yours.
"Someone wrong me here so from that moment on, I'm going to use other posters' personal information against them and exploit their children even though they have nothing to do with the argument because I disagree with their opinions, teehee!" - is this suppose to be an attitude of an adult?
Grow up ffs.

reply from: Faramir

So you think it's okay to use someone's personal information against them, to drag their own families into an argument just because you disagree with them?
You're so wretched.
___________________________________
Yes its fair game if they post it... you guys have tried it against lots of us... the only time i will defend that is if it is a child on this board who posted without his/ her parents permission... as has happened in the past... other than that its fair game... hell many of the prochoicers gave me hell when i had a brain tumour... even on PMs ... i took it why shouldn't you?
It's wrong to use personal information against someone. Something that someone shares about their personal life, especially challenges or admissions of previous errors, should be off limits, and anyone with a shred of decency and manners knows that.
And you should know better than to throw "you guys" at someone for something another person did. That's like when some prochoicers say "you guys" are violent.
Your hardships that you shared should not have been used against you either, but I'm surprised you would use that as a justification for someone else to do it.
I suppose it's "fair game" here, where nobody is ashamed of their cruelty.

reply from: 4choice4all

my biggest issue is the fact that it's a tactic when they run out of anything logical or productive to say and are backed into a corner...pull out the personal slam card. Again, that speaks volumes to their character and says nothing about mine.

reply from: 4choice4all

Galen....I find it indefensible that someone would use your brain tumor and health crisis against you.

reply from: Faramir

You're all wet about this issue you know, but that doesn't mean it's right to use private stuff you shared in good faith, trusting that others had manners and respect, but that mistake was before you understood what goes on here, and the cruelty that is seen as "normal" and even defended, you little shrimp.

reply from: 4choice4all

I prefer vertically challenged,lol.

reply from: Rosalie

You know, so do I. But I don't think that it is a good enough excuse for her to attack other people and exploit their personal information. That, to me, makes her the same as the person who allegedly 'gave her hell' when she had a brain tumor, whoever it was.

reply from: faithman

I prefere deathcourt scumbag, but thats just me....

reply from: Rosalie

I before deathcourt scumbag, but thats just me....
How many times have you failed your English classes?

reply from: 4choice4all

Truth be told...that's my favorite term of endearment....but you knew that about me FM...you know it makes me tingly in all the right spots...rawr.

reply from: faithman

I know it can't be where your heart belongs, that is mid-night black and empty.

reply from: 4choice4all

I had my soul removed to make room for all this sarcasm,lol.

reply from: Rosalie

Wait till he starts with the poems about your WHORE SHOES!

reply from: galen

hey the world is a tough place... and guess who never spoke up when i had that tumour to defend me from the proaborts....?
the same people who say that i am being cruel now... the point is , is that if you give out the info you MUST assume that people are going to wonder about weather or not it affects you and your stance on a particular issue... would you rather we chock up your responses to shame or doubt about your own current situation... or would you rather get it all out in the open.
As 4choice "got it all out in the open' i feel that i respect her less... and i still find her wishy washy on this subject and others..

reply from: galen

You truly are messed up. I suppose that whenever everyone needs to know what kind of a person you are, it's pretty much enough to quote this post of yours.
"Someone wrong me here so from that moment on, I'm going to use other posters' personal information against them and exploit their children even though they have nothing to do with the argument because I disagree with their opinions, teehee!" - is this suppose to be an attitude of an adult?
Grow up ffs.
_______________________
It was a legitament question... grow up yourself and get back to defending the indefensible...

reply from: galen

Nice try you 2 .. Tiller is still a bad doctor...

reply from: Rosalie

Probably because I have never seen anyone attacking you over your tumor. The very thought of it is quite incomprehensible but I haven't seen anyone do this to you. Imagine that.
Not among well-mannered adults. Oh wait...
No, it wasn't. It was an indefensible personal attack.

reply from: Faramir

I didn't say YOU were being cruel. I didn't say anyone in particular, and I didn't know what you might have said.
As far as your personal situation, I have nothing but compassion for you and for that, and respect for the way you continue to be active, and have not fallen into self-pity or depression, as I might have done. I do not recall anyone using that against you, but if I had seen it would have said something, unless someone else addressed it throughly. It's horrible anyone would use that against you.
It just seems to me that whatever personal things we share that we don't have to share, should be given some respect. If I did time in prison and admitted my mistake to make a point, I shouldn't have to hear myself being called "the convict" next time someone wants to "discuss" something with me, and if I had an abortion and am now prolife, I shouldn't have to hear myself being called "the killer" over something I did 30+ years ago, that I shared to help others. It seems a little bizzare that I have to say this at all, since it just seems like any normal person would understand that.

reply from: ProInformed

You're an 19 year old kid. You're critically wounded, and dying in the jungle in the Ia Drang Valley, 11-14-1965, LZ X-ray, Vietnam. Your infantry unit is outnumbered 8 - 1, and the enemy fire is so intense, from 100 or 200 yards away, that your own Infantry Commander has ordered the MediVac helicopters to stop coming in.
You're lying there, listening to the enemy machine guns, and you know you're not getting out. Your family is half way around the world - 12,000 miles away - and you'll never see them again. As the world starts to fade in and out, you know this is the day.
Then, over the machine gun noise, you faintly hear that sound of helicopter, and you look up to see an un-armed Huey, but it doesn't seem real, because no Medi-Vac markings are on it.
Ed Freeman is coming for you. He's not Medi-Vac, so it's not his job, but he's flying his Huey down into the machine gun fire, after the Medi-Vacs were ordered not to come.
He's coming anyway.
And he drops it in, and sits there in the machine gun fire, as they load 2 or 3 of you on board.
Then he flies you up and out through the gunfire, to the doctors and nurses.
And, he kept coming back...13 more times...and took about 30 of you and your buddies out, who would never have gotten out.
Medal of Honor Recipient, Ed Freeman, died Wednesday, March 25th, 2009 at the age of 80, in Boise, ID...May God rest his soul.
Medal of Honor Winner
Ed Freeman!
Since the Media didn't give him the coverage he deserves send this to every red blooded American you know.
THANKS AGAIN ED FOR WHAT YOU DID FOR OUR COUNTRY.
RIP
Ah but the media's been too busy making a fuss over the death of a dangerous illegal abortionist ('hero'?) to focus on a real hero.

reply from: Faramir

And idiots who praise Scott Roeder are playing right into their hands.

reply from: ProInformed

I wonder what online name Tiller the killer used?
Are there any of the Roe-bot trolls missing since Sunday?

reply from: 4choice4all

You think way too highly of this board,lol.

reply from: Shenanigans

Even if you don't beleive it's a child, given that "child" is simply a word, it is a human life, regardless of its "social" life or "precived life", the human uterine entity is a live.
Tiller had provided a service where he killed said human life.
WOuld you call someone who puts down unwanted puppies at the pound a hero?

reply from: 4choice4all

I do not see anything wrong with ceasing human development when the woman incubating said development has decided that she does not want to continue to do so. I see nothing righteous about forced gestation. When a woman is pregnant and does not want to be pregnant I commend a doctor that is willing to help her end that pregnancy despite the fact that it may(and did) eventually cost him his life. He was willing to die for his convictions...he believed that strongly in that woman's right. I have said that I find it an absolute tragedy that women, at an alarming rate, become pregnant when they don't want to be. That is a failure. The random "oops" doesn't explain 1 million abortions. Granted, some a performed for fetal abnormalities...but most are purely elective...the woman simply does not want to be pregnant any longer. This shouldn't be happening in these numbers. Women should be better equipped and prepared to prevent pregnancies if they don't want to be pregnant.
As for the pound...sure. They do a job nobody wants but a job that must be done. They clean up other peoples messes. They aren't blood thirsty animal haters....they provide a service. The animal overpopulation and abandonment problem is not of their doing...they are cleaning up the mess that others have made. They have no choice...what do they do with the unwanted dogs and cats? There's not enough space or money to house and care for them indefinitely. There aren't enough adoptive homes. Should they put them in the streets? So yes...someone has to euthanize unwanted pets...it's a sad harsh reality of our doing...not the medical staff's doing.

reply from: Shenanigans

AKA: "killing a human life". Why can't you guys just call a spade a spade?
With the exception of rape, no one forced the woman (or the man involved) to get naked and have sex. The primarily biological purpose is to create off spring. No one is "forcing" gestation on anyone. Gestation is the natural progression of a sex act that has resulted in conception. The body is not forcing the woman, the body is doing what it was programmed to do.
If the woman doesn't want to have gestation "forced" on her, she shouldn't have sex. Its simple.
Its 2009. That excuse doesn't fly anymore. There's so much crap on TV about sex and protection, teens can get sex ed sent to them on their cell phones, there are hundreds of internet pages dedicated to the subject, probably thousands, there are mags aimed at teens with issues dedicated to the subject, there are classes in schools about it.
Sex ed has failed.
The better equipped excuse is also flawed, NZL has a horrendous abortion rate, but we have free maternity care and we are essentially a benefit state, its not hard to get the dole, yet still, women get abortions. The reality is people like you and your little cohorts making pregnancy seem "forced" and demonising the unborn. Until humans respect the right to continued life of the unborn, and view it as the human life it is, abortions will continue, not because women are ill prepared, or uneducated, but because women and society as a whole, just don't care and are more interested in their own selfish desires.
Some of them are bastards. I was talking to my vet about how my sister was unabel to get a pet cat, and my vet told me (what I had heard from others in the community) that there was a woman who worked at the pound and she never bothered to try and rehome kittens or cats, and as soon as they came in the front door, they were out the back door in a sack heading to the crematorium.

reply from: 4choice4all

Sorry...I don't agree that pregnancy is desired by everyone having sex and I think birth control is a wonderful gift that allows us to enjoy the beauty of sexual relations without becoming pregnancy. I think Yuuki compared it to driving....not everyone that drives intends or expects a car accident. You can want to drive and take precautions to lower the likelihood of an accident. And obviously all the abstinence drumbeating has NOT worked....people will still enjoy sex outside of the act of procreation. Not allowing a woman to end a pregnancy is forcing gestation on her.
Knowledge of the existence of contraception is not the same as access and availability. Comprehensive sex ed is fought at every level...we don't have comprehensive sex ed in schools or communities. How can something fail that is never tried?
Some more anecdotal stories and throwing the baby out with the bath water. So because you heard that someone heard that someone heard a vet was cruel...all vets are cruel? Anyway....if people took care of their pets and had them spayed and neutered and didn't abandon them.....there would never be a need.

reply from: Banned Member

Unnatural termination at any stage after conception is murder.
What you want when you have sex and how you become pregnant is irrelevent.

reply from: lukesmom

Could it be the same "person" who ran my kids, living and deceased through their grinder and the little she and heples who didn't say a word?

reply from: sander

Originally posted by: 4choice4all
I do not see anything wrong with ceasing human development when the woman incubating said development has decided that she does not want to continue to do so.
Shen said:
AKA: "killing a human life". Why can't you guys just call a spade a spade?
They can't. If they do they expose, even to themselves, the void where their hearts and souls should be.
What we've witnessed on this thread is a display of COMPASSION DEFICIT DISORDER, by the proaborts.
They lack the empathy required to live a healthy moral life.
It's just too bad helpless children pay the price for their lack of courage and compassion.

reply from: yoda

The excessive use of euphemisms does indeed suggest that to say the plain, simple truth would cause them some pain. They "can't handle the truth".

reply from: galen

Could it be the same "person" who ran my kids, living and deceased through their grinder and the little she and heples who didn't say a word?[/q_______________________
Some of them and that one conspicuous person who never defends anyone but CM...its funny but this same person never seems to defend the babies very much... isn't that what this board is all about....?
?

reply from: 4choice4all

I thought the board was about creating dialogue on both sides...why else open it up to both sides?
The only ones not facing reality are the ones that continue to insist that prochoice people are merely trying to avoid admitting that the unborn are no different than the born. That simply is not the reality of the situation. We are not avoiding that "fact"...we don't believe that to be a "fact". There IS a HUGE difference. I understand we don't agree on it....but you refuse to acknowledge why the other side believes the way it does and instead stick to the evil monster theory. I find it terribly tragic. I always believed it was possible to have dialogue and seek common ground to meet on. Every prolife person I know IRL is reasonable and loving...some of my dearest friends and family are prolife...and neither of us view the other as some sort of monster. It is shocking to me how many here are so unlike the prolifers I've met irl.

reply from: Faramir

You ain't the only one.
But stay for awhile. They eventually grow on you.

reply from: 4choice4all

like a fungus? or a wart? lol

reply from: Rosalie

Yeah, same here.
I can barely believe my eyes sometimes.
LIES.

reply from: Faramir

For the most part, NO, it's not about "defending babies."
It's about "using" babies as an excuse to trash others.

reply from: Faramir

I'll be happy to provide my defense services to you or any other damsel in distress, any time they are needed.
It's just hard to resist jumping in to defend CM since so many attack her, which is really weird since she does so much good prolife work, and it just seems to me that in the logical way my brain works, that in attacking a successful prolifer, one is going AGAINST the babies they say they love.
Seems hugely hypocritical.

reply from: MC3

4Choice4All:
When you stated that, "I thought the board was about creating dialogue on both sides..." it became clear that you are operating under a large (and false) assumption.
To begin with, the pro-life position is one founded in a moral principle and, as we've seen demonstrated here on many occasions, the amoral nature of those who support legal abortion renders them immune to arguments based on morality.
Having recognized that fact many years ago, I adopted two philosophies under which I continue to operate. The first one is that those of us in the pro-life movement are soldiers in a war that people like you are waging against the unborn. The second is that the goal of war is not to convert the enemy but to stop them.
For these reasons, this forum was not created to win over you or anyone else. It is meant to be a venue for pro-lifers to communicate with each other, share ideas, and stay informed. If a bunch of naïve dunces and half-hearted pro-lifers want to join you around the campfire and sing Kumbaya, or share some sort of "Oprah Moment" with you, that's their business. But never conclude that it is the goal of this forum. For the majority of us here, our only interest in people like you is in stopping you and in doing so as quickly as possible. We live with the awareness that for every day we shorten this holocaust, we save over 3000 defenseless babies from the goons and cowards at your death camps. That, and only that, is our focus.
With that established, you need to just accept that you are allowed on this forum only to serve as foils for our amusement and as exercise to keep our skills sharp. If such an arrangement is acceptable, stay. If not, I'll repeat what I have said to others before. Don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on your way out.

reply from: Faramir

It's easy to get that assumption from the front page that says (about this forum) "It's a place where your voice can be heard and where you can interact with people from all over the world on both sides of the issue."
"Interact" implies a civil discussion, I would think.
If it's meant to be a place where the "pro deth scancy bort heads" have the snot beaten out of them for the amusement of the prolifers, then I don't think that page says it, and naturally those unfortunate degenerates are a little surprised by the atmosphere on the actual forum.
It's also a a little surprising that pro-life goons dominate and seem to find their best amusement abusing fellow prolifers, which seems a little counterproductive to the idea of this being a meeting place for prolifers to learn and have discussions.

reply from: CDC700

It's easy to get that assumption from the front page that says (about this forum) "It's a place where your voice can be heard and where you can interact with people from all over the world on both sides of the issue."
"Interact" implies a civil discussion, I would think.
If it's meant to be a place where the "pro deth scancy bort heads" have the snot beaten out of them for the amusement of the prolifers, then I don't think that page says it, and naturally those unfortunate degenerates are a little surprised by the atmosphere on the actual forum.
It's also a a little surprising that pro-life goons dominate and seem to find their best amusement abusing fellow prolifers, which seems a little counterproductive to the idea of this being a meeting place for prolifers to learn and have discussions.
interact |?int?r?akt|
verb [ intrans. ]
act in such a way as to have an effect on another; act reciprocally
I'd say we have that covered....

reply from: Faramir

It's as good a place as any to have a food fight, or for those more inclined to pontificate or throw stones, provides an outlet for their verbal self-gratification.
But I've learned some meaninful things here, and not from those who think they know everything or who act as if they sit at the right hand of the father.

reply from: 4choice4all

If I would've read that when I first arrived I would've left and thought, hmp...how strange...and just left. No sweat...this is far from the only board that discusses abortion. But yeah, what an ego maniac,lol. Most of the prochoice side and all the "faux" lifers talk circles around the militant poop loving foot soldiers. No wonder you are playing defense...and will continue to do so. Talk about a rag tag group of soldiers...inept and ill prepared are too kind of words to use. This is your war? you are the soldiers? It's the equivalent of the chubby security guard that wears his uniform and mace while he plays war like video games in his mom's basement while sucking down 64oz quicktrip refills of mountain dew before beating it to the Megan Fox/Transformers poster and falling asleep....alone and dejected...in his own wet spot. Poor sad pathetic little foot soldiers......oh...that post was rich!!
I posted that in another thread...thought I'd post in the original too.

reply from: Shenanigans

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.
No, not everyone who has sex is desiring pregnancy. The point I was trying to get you peeps to see is that the point of sex is pregnancy, this is the whole biological foundation of a species. Sex = procreation = babies = continuance of the speices!
You guys can harp on about the social ramifications and personal desires and other newances of sex, but at its biological perogative is the need to spread the genes.
I am still waiting for one of those "sex is more then just making babies" types to post the scientific evidence that says sex has another purpose outside of creation of new organisms to carrying the genes of a species.
Don't BS yourself, dear, contracpetion is easy to get.
And even if BC and sex ed is "fought at every level" I've yet to see the PP website fail as a result. Kids are a lot more tech savy then you apparently give them credit for.
It wasn't a vet that was putting down those animals, it was some crazy woman who got a job at the SPCA.
And just as spaying pets would prevent the need for euthanaisa so would not having sex and not being morons about BC prevent unplanned pregnancies, or at least the majority of them.
I mean, seriously, a condom is a piece of plastic shaped liek a sock, what kind of education do you need to put one of those on? It even comes with an insert with pictures in case the idiots shagging like rabbits can't read!
Though, I do find it funny you use the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" given what you do in your spare time.

reply from: Shenanigans

You know, people used to beleive the world was flat as a "fact".
I don't think you're a monster, or a ***** or a "murderer",
I just think you're horribly misguided and ignorant of the reality of biological fact and science.
But not a monster.

reply from: Shenanigans

Holy crap! DOnt get me started on that fan boy appeasement! HOLY POOP STICKS! Get that ***** out of Transformers! WTF Is up with her and "Sam" making out on a sentient robot from another planet, are they pervs or something!
Gone are the days when Transformers was just about giant robots from another world slaggin' each other, now us fans have to put up with half naked bimbos with a knowledge of mechanics screaming and whining about Megatron!
Seesh. Where's Shockwave when you need his cold fuel pump logic!

reply from: Skippy

Having previously read that bit about how this forum exists for pro-lifers to "hone their skills," I think watching the pro-lifers go at it hammer and tongs on each other is by far the most entertaining aspect of this board.
It kind of reminds me of that movie The Replacements, where they had to keep reminding the Special Forces guy not to flatten his teammates.

reply from: Faramir

Having previously read that bit about how this forum exists for pro-lifers to "hone their skills," I think watching the pro-lifers go at it hammer and tongs on each other is by far the most entertaining aspect of this board.
It kind of reminds me of that movie The Replacements, where they had to keep reminding the Special Forces guy not to flatten his teammates.
This might sound awful, but I'm not familiar with you and don't remember which side you're on.
Are you a prolifer? If so, are you a real prolifer, a pp prolifer, a faux lifer or some other kind?
If you're an enemy, please indentify yourself as such so that I can henceforth refer to you as a bloodthirsty baby killing pro abort degenerate scanc, for that is how I will defeat you and save many babies.

reply from: galen

For the most part, NO, it's not about "defending babies."
It's about "using" babies as an excuse to trash others.
_________________________
Only for certain people... i actually meet people here that need help , and some get talked out of an abortion...

reply from: Faramir

For the most part, NO, it's not about "defending babies."
It's about "using" babies as an excuse to trash others.
_________________________
Only for certain people... i actually meet people here that need help , and some get talked out of an abortion...
You have a lot of good things to say, and I've learned from you. I've learned from other good people here as well. And *gasp* some of the "degnerates" who fall in here also say some good things sometimes.
And I know some who were strongly prochoice have been converted or somewhat converted to being prolife.
But there is a type of posting that seems to dominate this forum and it's not at all instructive, does not help a single baby, and is only self-serving at the expense of demeaning someone else, which is why I would be hesitant to say this forum is about "defending babies."
That would be nice, but it seems to be a sideline. The main objective seems to be to crack the skulls of the bort heads, or even prolifers who don't comb their hair right.

reply from: faithman

What skills would we be "sharpening" here, Mark? Are you referring to perfecting and/or improving our arguments? If we have no real hope or desire to win people over to our way of thinking, of what use would such "skills" be? Are the "real prolifers" refining their skill at demeaning others? If my only purpose for being here was to amuse myself at the expense of others, I would view my participation on this forum as pointless. I think the only way we can ever win this "war" is by convincing as many people as possible to come around to our way of thinking.
Youve got the pointless thing right phony.

reply from: Skippy

Having previously read that bit about how this forum exists for pro-lifers to "hone their skills," I think watching the pro-lifers go at it hammer and tongs on each other is by far the most entertaining aspect of this board.
It kind of reminds me of that movie The Replacements, where they had to keep reminding the Special Forces guy not to flatten his teammates.
This might sound awful, but I'm not familiar with you and don't remember which side you're on.
Are you a prolifer? If so, are you a real prolifer, a pp prolifer, a faux lifer or some other kind?
If you're an enemy, please indentify yourself as such so that I can henceforth refer to you as a bloodthirsty baby killing pro abort degenerate scanc, for that is how I will defeat you and save many babies.
See, that's what is wrong with the pro-lifers. Their insults are lame. I mean, "bloodthirsty baby killing pro abort degenerate scanc"? I think you guys would be more effective if you started calling us doody-heads or something.

reply from: faithman

Having previously read that bit about how this forum exists for pro-lifers to "hone their skills," I think watching the pro-lifers go at it hammer and tongs on each other is by far the most entertaining aspect of this board.
It kind of reminds me of that movie The Replacements, where they had to keep reminding the Special Forces guy not to flatten his teammates.
This might sound awful, but I'm not familiar with you and don't remember which side you're on.
Are you a prolifer? If so, are you a real prolifer, a pp prolifer, a faux lifer or some other kind?
If you're an enemy, please indentify yourself as such so that I can henceforth refer to you as a bloodthirsty baby killing pro abort degenerate scanc, for that is how I will defeat you and save many babies.
See, that's what is wrong with the pro-lifers. Their insults are lame. I mean, "bloodthirsty baby killing pro abort degenerate scanc"? I think you guys would be more effective if you started calling us doody-heads or something.
Poop mouthed doody head. [glad to accomodate scanc]

reply from: Skippy

See, that's what I love about you, faithman. You really ARE quite accommodating, even towards alleged bloodthirsty baby killing pro abort degenerate scancs.

reply from: faithman

I see that you discovered a mirror.


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