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Bill O'Reilly accused in death of Dr Tiller

PP says: hateful rhetoric on the airwaves...your words are not innocent

by: GodsLaw4Us2Live

A Quote from Planned Parenthood letter relating to the murder of their hero and honored comrade Tiller the baby killer:
"To those whose hateful rhetoric on the airwaves, in pulpits, and on the internet condemns medical practitioners, your words are not innocent."
I believe Planned Parenthood has fired a volley in an attempt to get legislators or news services to outlaw and/or censor speech critical of a woman's right to baby-killing.

reply from: yoda

They attack those whom they fear. O'Reilly is a thorn in their nasty side.

reply from: carolemarie

i heard a good comparison today on the radio on the Tiller shooting and justifiable homicide.
The radio guy( I don't know what show, ) said the comparison with the Nazi's isn't a good one. To put it in 2000 terms.
He said "child molesters. they are evil, they destroy the lives of children and they don't stop. So is it justifible to shoot them? To seek them out and kill them to protect children? Some molest 100's of children, and it isn't legal, but prison sets them free.
If your answer is no, then neither is it justifible to kill abortion providers.
I thought this was a good example

reply from: 4choice4all

There have always been limits on what constitutes free speech...the whole "can't shout fire in a crowded theatre" issue. There have been limits placed on it by the courts...this is nothing new. I think calling someone a baby killer worse than Hitler that needs to be stopped seriously borders on criminal.

reply from: yoda

Except that not all child molesters actually kill their victims, do they?

reply from: yoda

I don't know about the "Hitler" part, but the baby killing part is not anything but plain, honest speech when talking about an abortionist. Even most of them admit that.
And you will NOT take away my right to speak the plain, honest truth.

reply from: 4choice4all

Well...you'll always be able to.....you just may have to answer for it legally. it's your choice..and I'm all about choice!

reply from: carolemarie

I agree that the rhetoric is appalling. I think it leads to the shooting. It is one thing to say abortion kills a baby. It is another to say that someone is babykilling scum who deserves to be killed.
But they all stop short of the "who deserves to be killed" part, so it is just being ugly, not criminal.
I wish we would try to treat human beings with civility, born or unborn.

reply from: yoda

Then if they do stop short, why do you even mention that? YOU are the only one who has said those words here, so why try to put them in someone else's mouth?
And the "baby killer" part is accurate when referring to an abortionist.

reply from: 4choice4all

But O'reilly did talk about vigilantism and what HE would do to Tiller if close enough, nazi stuff, equivalent of Al Qaida...a murderer that justice won't stop. I think it at leasts toys with the line in the sand.

reply from: carolemarie

I am disagreeing that it could be a hate crime
I think the general tone leads to the violence.
If someone says: I deplore the shooting of Dr. Tiller, but I am glad of the outcome because babies will not be killed, you are in tatic agreement with the action because you like the results. To say he deserved it is to be in agreement with the action. To say you are happy because babies live, is to be in agreement with the action.
The ends do not ever justify the means.
That is why it is wrong to kill in the name of stopping the killing.
I deplore the babies lost to abortion. And I deplore the killing of Dr. Tiller.
They are two evil actions.
We live under the rule of law and have the right to change laws we don't like. We don't have the right to become vigilantes.
But abortion stays legal because the majority wants it to be legal. I don't care what the polls say, reality is 1.5 million abortions every year, and Christians have more than none Christians! If we really were prolife, America would outlaw abortion.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I agree that the rhetoric is appalling. I think it leads to the shooting. It is one thing to say abortion kills a baby. It is another to say that someone is babykilling scum who deserves to be killed.
But they all stop short of the "who deserves to be killed" part, so it is just being ugly, not criminal.
I wish we would try to treat human beings with civility, born or unborn.
Paul wouldn't say anything about people deserving to die, would he?
Letter of Paul to the Romans: "Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give hearty approval to those who practice them."
That Paul, always a little over the edge. Did you know he said he wished those who insisted on circumcision would "go all the way", a reference to castrating themselves.
Paul supported execution. Paul was on trial for his life; he said, (I paraphrase) "If I have done anything wrong I do not refuse to die." Paul believed the wicked should be executed.

reply from: JPRice

Interestingly, according to Newsbusters, Olbermann said some radical things about Bush and Cheney.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/06/02/if-bush-or-cheney-had-been-assassinated-would-olbermann-msnbc-be-resp

I rarely check out this site, but on websearching for Olbermann today, it came up and thought it was an interesting concept.

reply from: 4choice4all

I don't think it qualifies as a hate crime...just toying with the line of free speech.

reply from: CDC700

O'Reilly had nothing to do with tiller's death. tiller's "choice" to kill innocent babies had everything to do with it.

reply from: carolemarie

no Scotts decision to kill a human being was the total cause of Dr. Tillers death.

reply from: CDC700

no Scotts decision to kill a human being was the total cause of Dr. Tillers death.
That would be true had it been random. He was most likely killed because he thought killing babies was a good way to make a living. He led a life that seemed to be guided by satan himself. Maybe they are playing cards together now.....

reply from: Faramir

no Scotts decision to kill a human being was the total cause of Dr. Tillers death.
That would be true had it been random. He was most likely killed because he thought killing babies was a good way to make a living. He led a life that seemed to be guided by satan himself. Maybe they are playing cards together now.....
And maybe in his final moments he made peace with God and is in heaven.
Wouldn't that suck, huh?
It really pisses me off when sinners end up in the wrong place.

reply from: yoda

Sure, according to proabort theories about all of us being responsible for Tiller's death......

reply from: sander

I agree that the rhetoric is appalling. I think it leads to the shooting. It is one thing to say abortion kills a baby. It is another to say that someone is babykilling scum who deserves to be killed.
But they all stop short of the "who deserves to be killed" part, so it is just being ugly, not criminal.
I wish we would try to treat human beings with civility, born or unborn.
Paul wouldn't say anything about people deserving to die, would he?
Letter of Paul to the Romans: "Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give hearty approval to those who practice them."
That Paul, always a little over the edge. Did you know he said he wished those who insisted on circumcision would "go all the way", a reference to castrating themselves.
Paul supported execution. Paul was on trial for his life; he said, (I paraphrase) "If I have done anything wrong I do not refuse to die." Paul believed the wicked should be executed.
I don't think CM likes Paul, or any kind of harsh reality.
You disturb her un-realistic world of sugar and spice when you bring up the Holy Word of God.
But, I thank God for Paul and for those who have the courage to leave the "milk" behind and begin to feast on the "meat".

reply from: Faramir

What have you been eating, sander? I don't think it's milk OR meat. Must have been lots of baked beans, because you sure let out a lot of gas lately when you post.
I have never seen CM shrink from the Holy Word of God, and I have never seen her use it to smack someone upside the head for the sake of her own pleasure, either.
I'm a little surpised at all your unprovoked attacks of CM since you returned. You haven't even been involved in any discussions with her, but have been slamming her right and left. What's up? I don't remember you being so bitter and vindictive.
Or tell me what you know that I don't. Maybe I've missed something and maybe I should be pounding on her too. I've never thought it would be very sportsmanlike to gang up on someone, but I'm open to new experiences. Four against one might be fun.

reply from: Faramir

I looked for this, but couldn't find it. Could you provide the source please?

reply from: yoda

Or, maybe you should just shut up and let CM respond?
Whine, whine, whine, and whine some more!

reply from: Shenanigans

Then by your logic there is nothing immoral or illegal about restricting the rights of a person when it comes to their body. That it is legal and moral to prevent a woman killing her child - which is not her body, just in her body... since there its moral to add restrictions to rights.

reply from: sander

4c4a is your typical liberal tyrant....they're control freaks who have found outlets other than home and family.
They're now in governing positions and idiots like 4c are thrilled to know someone would restrict the speech she disagrees with...typical tyrants.

reply from: faithman

I agree that the rhetoric is appalling. I think it leads to the shooting. It is one thing to say abortion kills a baby. It is another to say that someone is babykilling scum who deserves to be killed.
But they all stop short of the "who deserves to be killed" part, so it is just being ugly, not criminal.
I wish we would try to treat human beings with civility, born or unborn.
Paul wouldn't say anything about people deserving to die, would he?
Letter of Paul to the Romans: "Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give hearty approval to those who practice them."
That Paul, always a little over the edge. Did you know he said he wished those who insisted on circumcision would "go all the way", a reference to castrating themselves.
Paul supported execution. Paul was on trial for his life; he said, (I paraphrase) "If I have done anything wrong I do not refuse to die." Paul believed the wicked should be executed.
I don't think CM likes Paul, or any kind of harsh reality.
You disturb her un-realistic world of sugar and spice when you bring up the Holy Word of God.
But, I thank God for Paul and for those who have the courage to leave the "milk" behind and begin to feast on the "meat".
She just liked being meat on the corner.

reply from: Banned Member

I don't think anything said should have criminal repercussions. But I think Tillers family should get together & sue the*****out of Mark Crutcher & Troy Boy, & anyone else hosting websites that are not moderated, whose members encourage the killing of abortions clinic workers.

reply from: churchmouse

The fact is abortion kills living children. The fact is anyone who takes that life is a murderer. The abortionist, the women are murderers. That is fact like it or not carole.
Now you can parade around and use any language you want to protect the guilty, but the fact is Tiller was a murderer.
When I left that abortion clinic, I was a murderer as well.
I thank God that the Lord has forgiven me. I did not deserve it. He has forgotten my sin, washed me clean. But the fact was I was a murderer saved by Grace.
The man who killed Tiller is a murderer and will have to face God. But lets not minimize Tillers activities. He killed for money. The guy who killed Tiller did it to stop babies from being killed. He gave his life for a cause. And because of his actions babies will live.
Wait wait wait 4choice4all........if OReilly is part of the murder, if he is an accessory......then what are you my dear? You walk them in to the clinic dont you? Who is worse OReilly who just talks.....or you who actually walks?
carolemarie said
I do not condone the murder of Tiller but I am glad he will never kill another child in the womb.
Are you glad that Sadam Hussein can't murder his own people anymore? No more Iraquis will go through his shredding machines. To be glad he was stopped is a bad thing? Should he still be living? Was it wrong to put him to death?
I agree that we can't become vililantes but when do we say enough is enough and stand up to injustice?
We would still have slavery today if people had not gotten sick of the injustice and done something. Are you pro-slavery? Were the people wrong for stopping it? Innocent people died for this cause. People on both sides were killed.
How do you justify the end of slavery and people taking matters into their own hands by ending it. It was legal remember.
Not so. We have no clue what the majority wants. We have polls....and the latest said that the majority were pro-life.
WE THE PEOPLE have no say in this matter. SCOTUS DECIDED THAT ABORTION WAS LEGAL. Our judges and those in politics decide what is law. I wish they would put this to the vote of the American people. When the people do get the vote the outcome can be overturned by Liberal judges.
I do agree with you that if the pastors in America preached the Word and each Christian congregation stood up against this, enough pressure would be put on our lawmakers to change it.
People are busy and they don't care. What happens in their personal life is more important. That doesn't mean they dont think abortion is wrong.
Not like they don't have enough money right. At least the money wouldnt be saturated by blood.
No one here is advocating going out and killing people Syrenity. I am sorry that Tiller quite frankly won't spend the rest of his life in prison behind bars for the thousands of babies he has murdered. The way he died was way to easy. The man who murdered Tiller will be brought to justice because more times than not our system of justice works.

reply from: Yuuki

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!

reply from: JPRice

This is so. What I struggle with is that the whole issue is already producing outrage, that is why "Crisis Pregnancy" centers are set up often in close proximity to these clinics, why there are various forms of protests, saying prayers, etc. These people are outraged and that is what makes a pro-lifer.
So, then, we have the others who tip they are so outraged.
Here is a much more "mild" incident of force being used as it did in St. Paul:
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=537200
The character rammed his truck into the doorway of PPH at 7:40 AM one morning on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade. No one was hurt.
It's this discontent that one can look at and say, well, there must be a number of people who are so very outraged. Showing pictures, etc. is just showing the truth.
But it's clear, now a few days after the event in Wichita, for cooler heads to prevail and to look at the matter in more peaceful pragmatic ways.
For all the talk of MLK leading peaceful protests, we know in the 1960s, there were riots and this reflects that others had not the patience of the great Doctor King.
So, just to avoid any misinterpetation, like Gandhi and King, Yes, peaceful methods are needed.

reply from: Banned Member

A lot of times lawsuits aren't really about money, it's about getting justice where there can't be any gained in a criminal court. Like a lot of malpractice suits. In this case it would be a wrongful death suit. And since these people are already wealthy, I would guess they would use the money for charity. Probably to help women in need.

reply from: JPRice

From that same article:
"Stoesz says she is saddened by the incident, and adds that nothing like it has ever happened at the clinic on Ford Parkway. While that clinic is the only one in the Metro area that performs abortions, Stoesz insists that only 5 percent of its patients actually are there for an abortion. "I'm just very sorry that certain people chose to act in such a way that attempts to disrupt health care for women," she said."
Only 5 percent. Within a block on the same street is a Crisis Pregnancy center and that is a good sign.
I wish Reverend Childers updated his http://www.blackgenocide.org website more. I'd like to hear what his latest response is to the recent violence. He is very admirable and might be my favorite to read Pro-Life wise nowadays.
Father Pavone basically echoes the Churches position for all he is as being a pro-life priest. We even have had some pro-life priests up here but they've been brought a bit into a more moderate voice and what I mean by that is basically like Pavone who is always speaking in a moderate and understanding and compassionate type of tone.
Just my opinions.

reply from: yoda

Me too. Lots of lawyers are out of work, and since they'd have no case, no one would be harmed. Can I count on you for a donation?

reply from: sander

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....

reply from: faithman

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Could you please spare the middle one for the bortheads? there are number one after all. [feel the luv]

reply from: sander

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Could you please spare the middle one for the bortheads? there are number one after all. [feel the luv]
LOL!
Now, that's funny....

reply from: faithman

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Could you please spare the middle one for the bortheads? there are number one after all. [feel the luv]
LOL!
Now, that's funny....
Ole bubba Ace has his moments.

reply from: nancyu

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to stop killing babies to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I looked for this, but couldn't find it. Could you provide the source please?
Galatians 5:11-12 "But I, brethren, if I stll preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate* themselves."
* Galatians 5:12 mutilate themselves: The Greek word means "to cut off" or "to castrate".
Personally, I'm not sure the translators got it right. They make many mistranslations due to preconceptions. This shocking verse was stuck in my mind. Sorry I mentioned it.

reply from: churchmouse

Their charity is probably PP and the death mills...of course to carry on the work of Tiller and killing babies.

reply from: Faramir

I looked for this, but couldn't find it. Could you provide the source please?
Galatians 5:11-12 "But I, brethren, if I stll preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate* themselves."
* Galatians 5:12 mutilate themselves: The Greek word means "to cut off" or "to castrate".
Personally, I'm not sure the translators got it right. They make many mistranslations due to preconceptions. This shocking verse was stuck in my mind. Sorry I mentioned it.
That's an interesting verse, and I wasn't familiar with that one, but I think it was sarcasm.

reply from: Faramir

We can't have it both ways.
We can't say the murder of Tiller was wrong, BUT, we're happy he's dead, because he can't kill anymore.
That's hypocrital and is winking at the murder, and giving approval to someone to do the next one.
What you're saying to the next deluded soul is, "It's wrong to kill an abortion doctor, but if you do, you'll be our hero."
Isn't that a little contradictory?
And I don't think any more babies will live because of this tragedy. In the long run it will make things worse.

reply from: Faramir

What have you been eating, sander? I don't think it's milk OR meat. Must have been lots of baked beans, because you sure let out a lot of gas lately when you post.
I have never seen CM shrink from the Holy Word of God, and I have never seen her use it to smack someone upside the head for the sake of her own pleasure, either.
I'm a little surpised at all your unprovoked attacks of CM since you returned. You haven't even been involved in any discussions with her, but have been slamming her right and left. What's up? I don't remember you being so bitter and vindictive.
Or tell me what you know that I don't. Maybe I've missed something and maybe I should be pounding on her too. I've never thought it would be very sportsmanlike to gang up on someone, but I'm open to new experiences. Four against one might be fun.
A bump, just because this is one of my favorite posts.
And Paul did not say "meat" but "solid foods" so the plentitude of beans sander has been eating qualifies, and continues to produce the expected result in each and every one of her posts, and we know from whence cometh her wisdom.

reply from: Faramir

The fact is that a murderer is someone who unlawfully takes the life of another. There is an intent to kill.
Besides the very small technicality that abortion is legal and encouraged by our culture, there must be an INTENT to kill. If someone ignorantly has an abortion, not knowing full well what she is doing or killing, she's NOT a muderer.
You may call yourself that if you please, but it's not right to call other postabortive women that name.

reply from: CDC700

The fact is that a murderer is someone who unlawfully takes the life of another. There is an intent to kill.
Besides the very small technicality that abortion is legal and encouraged by our culture, there must be an INTENT to kill. If someone ignorantly has an abortion, not knowing full well what she is doing or killing, she's NOT a muderer.
You may call yourself that if you please, but it's not right to call other postabortive women that name.
That's a crock! So by your theory, it's okay to rape a woman as long as you don't think it's wrong? You have exonerated Roeder 'cause I'm sure he felt he was doing the right thing too.

reply from: Faramir

The fact is that a murderer is someone who unlawfully takes the life of another. There is an intent to kill.
Besides the very small technicality that abortion is legal and encouraged by our culture, there must be an INTENT to kill. If someone ignorantly has an abortion, not knowing full well what she is doing or killing, she's NOT a muderer.
You may call yourself that if you please, but it's not right to call other postabortive women that name.
That's a crock! So by your theory, it's okay to rape a woman as long as you don't think it's wrong? You have exonerated Roeder 'cause I'm sure he felt he was doing the right thing too.
Last time I checked rape was illegal, plus nobody is telling men that rape is acceptable or that the women they are raping don't exist.
If you run over a child not knowing the child was in front of your car, it's not murder.
It's not murder even if you should have looked first and were irresponsible.
There is a woman on this forum who claims she was lied to by the people at the clinic and so she had an abortion based on their lies. Is that murder on her part?
Look up the definition of the word "murderer," post it, and then demonstrate how it applies to a 13 year old girl dragged to a clinic by her mother, or a young woman forced to walk the streets because of poverty, and frightened and alone, not knowing what else to do, and having no one to help her.
If you want to really stretch the meaning, it might apply to some, but certainly not to all.
Abortion always causes an unjust death, but the person who aborts is not always a murderer, though some do get a sick pleasure out of calling those scancs that, huh--and I can understand why they would object to my view.

reply from: yoda

Turn the man loose then, he probably didn't know the gun was loaded.

reply from: yoda

Fascinating........ you spend more time whining and attacking name callers than baby killers. Your "priorities" are obvious.

reply from: sander

Fascinating........ you spend more time whining and attacking name callers than baby killers. Your "priorities" are obvious.
If he didn't then he wouldn't have an outlet for his self righteous delusions.
He must have spent years searching for a message board like this one.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I looked for this, but couldn't find it. Could you provide the source please?
Galatians 5:11-12 "But I, brethren, if I stll preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate* themselves."
* Galatians 5:12 mutilate themselves: The Greek word means "to cut off" or "to castrate".
Personally, I'm not sure the translators got it right. They make many mistranslations due to preconceptions. This shocking verse was stuck in my mind. Sorry I mentioned it.
That's an interesting verse, and I wasn't familiar with that one, but I think it was sarcasm.
The footnote in one of my Bibles says Paul is obviously being sarcastic.

reply from: churchmouse

Why?
It has nothing to do with love. It has to do with a sense of relief that at least one more abortionist cant kill. Doesnt God want us to protect the righteous?
I am not saying I am glad this all happened. But God is in control and I believe out of bad things happening...... good can come of it. Abortionists today might be thinking hard about stopping because of the potential dangers associated with the profession. Workers might also come to terms with the job. Church members might repent and have a change of heart.
The murderer is not my hero. Where did I say this Faramir?
I said I hope he is brought to justice.
Why? Have they replaced him yet? Is someone doing abortions at his clinic?
How will it make things worse?
Then you dont think the death of the unborn is murder? Are you pro-life faramir?
I thought you as a Christian would know that in Gods eyes it is murder. That is the whole point of standing up against abortion.
You obviously think that when somthing is made legal it becomes moral as well.
Come on I know you better than that.
Every abortionist doing an abortion.....has an intent to kill. That is their goal.
So if someone does not know that what they are doing is wrong, they are not negligent?
So Bernard Nathanson who performed thousands of abortion before he came to know the Lord, was innocent because he didnt know what he was doing was wrong.
???????
So we cant call Tiller a killer of babies in the womb eh. obviously you dont think Tiller did anything wrong,,,,,,because abortion is legal.
But what you are saying is that abortion is legal so its not really a crime. And if the act is not a crime, the one doing the act is not a criminal...and we shouldnt call them a criminal.

reply from: faithman

Why?
It has nothing to do with love. It has to do with a sense of relief that at least one more abortionist cant kill. Doesnt God want us to protect the righteous?
I am not saying I am glad this all happened. But God is in control and I believe out of bad things happening...... good can come of it. Abortionists today might be thinking hard about stopping because of the potential dangers associated with the profession. Workers might also come to terms with the job. Church members might repent and have a change of heart.
The murderer is not my hero. Where did I say this Faramir?
I said I hope he is brought to justice.
Why? Have they replaced him yet? Is someone doing abortions at his clinic?
How will it make things worse?
Then you dont think the death of the unborn is murder? Are you pro-life faramir?
I thought you as a Christian would know that in Gods eyes it is murder. That is the whole point of standing up against abortion.
You obviously think that when somthing is made legal it becomes moral as well.
Come on I know you better than that.
Every abortionist doing an abortion.....has an intent to kill. That is their goal.
So if someone does not know that what they are doing is wrong, they are not negligent?
So Bernard Nathanson who performed thousands of abortion before he came to know the Lord, was innocent because he didnt know what he was doing was wrong.
???????
So we cant call Tiller a killer of babies in the womb eh. obviously you dont think Tiller did anything wrong,,,,,,because abortion is legal.
But what you are saying is that abortion is legal so its not really a crime. And if the act is not a crime, the one doing the act is not a criminal...and we shouldnt call them a criminal.
http://www.christiangallery.com/atrocity/tiller.html

reply from: Yuuki

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.

reply from: faithman

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.
I "think" about burning a clinic, I am an extremest. You "think" about cutting my fingers off, and it is just fantacy. You the only one who has the right to express their fantacies? the 1st amendment protects offensive speach. You would have that amendment cercumvented because you don't like what some says? You but a gag in someones mouth, and you will get a taist of the same dirty sock.

reply from: Yuuki

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.
I "think" about burning a clinic, I am an extremest. You "think" about cutting my fingers off, and it is just fantacy. You the only one who has the right to express their fantacies? the 1st amendment protects offensive speach. You would have that amendment cercumvented because you don't like what some says? You but a gag in someones mouth, and you will get a taist of the same dirty sock.
Did you just "think" about shooting people who touched your lifey-float? Because that sounded like a direct threat. Secondly, you CONDONE what Scott did. You condone violence and breaking the law. I do NOT.

reply from: Faramir

You missed my point entirely.
Yes I'm prolife and I don't appreciate the question. An abortion is an injustice against a person.
And I was SPECFICALLY REFERRING TO THE WOMAN WHO ABORTED, and you totally missed that.
A murderER has killed someone unlawfully, and with an INTENT to kill that person.
If there is no intent, there is no murder.
You say you didn't understand that a fetus was a person, therefore you did not intend to kill a person.
Did you know an abortion kills a person and did you intend to kill a person when you aborted?
If no, then you acted in ignorance, and could not be called a muderER for something that you did not know involved a death of a person, and especially since our culture gave you our approval, and then of course there's that small technicality that it was legal too, so the law, which is our teacher to a degree, misled you.
Yes, I agree that in a sense the ACT of abortion is murder, but those involved are not necessarily murderERS, UNLESS, they completely understand a person is being killed and that they intend to kill it, and do so with full consent of their will.

reply from: Faramir

Fascinating........ you spend more time whining and attacking name callers than baby killers. Your "priorities" are obvious.
If he didn't then he wouldn't have an outlet for his self righteous delusions.
He must have spent years searching for a message board like this one.
Hey, since you've been back, 98.6% of your posts have been nasty personal attacks.
Got anything better than that?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

reply from: faithman

Fascinating........ you spend more time whining and attacking name callers than baby killers. Your "priorities" are obvious.
If he didn't then he wouldn't have an outlet for his self righteous delusions.
He must have spent years searching for a message board like this one.
Hey, since you've been back, 98.6% of your posts have been nasty personal attacks.
Got anything better than that?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't like personal attack posts, don't post one. Who are you to force your anti attack post morality on anyone else? Isn't that her choice?

reply from: Faramir

Fascinating........ you spend more time whining and attacking name callers than baby killers. Your "priorities" are obvious.
If he didn't then he wouldn't have an outlet for his self righteous delusions.
He must have spent years searching for a message board like this one.
Hey, since you've been back, 98.6% of your posts have been nasty personal attacks.
Got anything better than that?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't like personal attack posts, don't post one. Who are you to force your anti attack post morality on anyone else? Isn't that her choice?
Asking "got anything better?" is to "force"?
You're really a sensitive guy aren't you?

reply from: faithman

Fascinating........ you spend more time whining and attacking name callers than baby killers. Your "priorities" are obvious.
If he didn't then he wouldn't have an outlet for his self righteous delusions.
He must have spent years searching for a message board like this one.
Hey, since you've been back, 98.6% of your posts have been nasty personal attacks.
Got anything better than that?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't like personal attack posts, don't post one. Who are you to force your anti attack post morality on anyone else? Isn't that her choice?
Asking "got anything better?" is to "force"?
You're really a sensitive guy aren't you?
relative to what?

reply from: nancyu

Fascinating........ you spend more time whining and attacking name callers than baby killers. Your "priorities" are obvious.
If he didn't then he wouldn't have an outlet for his self righteous delusions.
He must have spent years searching for a message board like this one.
Hey, since you've been back, 98.6% of your posts have been nasty personal attacks.
Got anything better than that?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't like personal attack posts, don't post one. Who are you to force your anti attack post morality on anyone else? Isn't that her choice?
Asking "got anything better?" is to "force"?
You're really a sensitive guy aren't you?
relative to what?
Alright, alright enough already!!!
Look here, faramir: pro life has only one real argument. Well maybe one and a half:
NO one has a RIGHT to intentionally kill innocent human beings. And unborn children - more than anyone else - are innocent, and - just as much as anyone else - are human beings.
Saying this doesn't take up alot of time, and spinwiddy gets upset if we repeat the same things over and over. So, to fill in the empty spaces, we're here to play and make fun of the people who try to ignore the above truths. One of those people is you faramir. So if you don't like being picked on, run on home and tell your mommy.

reply from: yoda

Ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it, and ignorance of basic biology is no moral excuse to kill a living human being. Abortion is "legalized murder".

reply from: nancyu

If it were legal to molest children, would it be justifiable for someone who disagreed with the law, to use force to stop a child molester?

reply from: nancyu

I agree that the rhetoric is appalling. I think it leads to the shooting. It is one thing to say abortion kills a baby. It is another to say that someone is babykilling scum who deserves to be killed.
But they all stop short of the "who deserves to be killed" part, so it is just being ugly, not criminal.
I wish we would try to treat human beings with civility, born or unborn.
I think it's the abortions that lead to the shooting.

reply from: nancyu

I think the Tiller's family should sue the ***** out of the Supreme Court for falsely telling them that "abortion is legal"
But I know you don't care what I think....
Oh, yeah! I don't care what you think either.. oh well!

reply from: faithman

I agree that the rhetoric is appalling. I think it leads to the shooting. It is one thing to say abortion kills a baby. It is another to say that someone is babykilling scum who deserves to be killed.
But they all stop short of the "who deserves to be killed" part, so it is just being ugly, not criminal.
I wish we would try to treat human beings with civility, born or unborn.
I think it's the abortions that lead to the shooting.
What leads to the shooting is the total futility of the pro-life bowel movement, Bloody pictures, and calling abortion murder when they really don't mean it. Suffeciant force has always been the way to subdue evil aggression. The evil aggressors have over run all of our institutions. but the self pressivation statements of the "leaders" of the bowel movement, are proof that it has niether the stomach, or real leadership to bring this to an end. SSSSOOOO just get ready folks. If things remain the same, they will remain the same. We will have decades more of Tiller killers laughing in our faces, while the "legally" suck the brains out of children's skulls. If you can "tolerate" that as we do now, then everything is as it should be. Just get comfy with the idea that we have no hope of ending the slaughter.

reply from: sander

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.
Because YOU said it, deary....
There's no denying it now, it's entirely too late.
Just read my sig, those are words out of YOUR mouth...nobody else's mouth, just YOURS.
You're a very violent person.

reply from: faithman

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.
Because YOU said it, deary....
There's no denying it now, it's entirely too late.
Just read my sig, those are words out of YOUR mouth...nobody else's mouth, just YOURS.
You're a very violent person.
Actually it was off her fingers. But she would have mine cut off!!!!!!

reply from: sander

She's just very violent, no matter the words came off the fingers....
I hope you're taking precautions, Faithman. Nobody has the right to chop off your fingers....yikes!

reply from: faithman

If they can get past the brass knucks, they can have them.

reply from: Banned Member

Maybe you should read your own signature. She didn't say she was going to cut them off, and she didn't say she wanted to cut them off. What she said would be like me saying "I bet people driving fast could cause car crashes". See, get it?

reply from: Faramir

Maybe you should read your own signature. She didn't say she was going to cut them off, and she didn't say she wanted to cut them off. What she said would be like me saying "I bet people driving fast could cause car crashes". See, get it?
lol, she knows what she's doing.
I just wonder how nancyu feels about all this.
We've got a new queen bee with a bigger stinger.

reply from: faithman

Maybe you should read your own signature. She didn't say she was going to cut them off, and she didn't say she wanted to cut them off. What she said would be like me saying "I bet people driving fast could cause car crashes". See, get it?
So people driving fast should be able to run over my fingures?

reply from: yoda

Or like someone saying "I bet people killing babies could cause someone to kill them". See, get it?

reply from: yoda

And you're so jealous you just can't stand it......

reply from: yoda

Nah, people who drive fast should be allowed to send "fatal" packages to Scott.

reply from: faithman

Nah, people who drive fast should be allowed to send "fatal" packages to Scott.
That would be express mail?

reply from: Yuuki

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.
Because YOU said it, deary....
There's no denying it now, it's entirely too late.
Just read my sig, those are words out of YOUR mouth...nobody else's mouth, just YOURS.
You're a very violent person.
1. I said someone, not me. LTR darling.

reply from: sander

Maybe you should read your own signature. She didn't say she was going to cut them off, and she didn't say she wanted to cut them off. What she said would be like me saying "I bet people driving fast could cause car crashes". See, get it?
I never said SHE was going to cut off his fingers....gads, you must really have spit for brains.
I ONLY directly quoted her....can you really read??? Or do you have an interpreter? If so, fire him/her...now.

reply from: sander

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.
Because YOU said it, deary....
There's no denying it now, it's entirely too late.
Just read my sig, those are words out of YOUR mouth...nobody else's mouth, just YOURS.
You're a very violent person.
1. I said someone, not me. LTR darling.
1. You're still a very violent person...even saying such a thing, not to mention sending something LETHAL in the mail...that would get you arrested, btw.
Maybe the FBI needs to hear about you....yes, I'm sure they do.

reply from: faithman

They're not promoting censorship you idiot, they're promoting people figure out when to shut their own damned mouths, and not say moronic things to inflame people to the point where they pick up a gun and MURDER someone else!!
Would that include sending lethal things thru the mail and cutting off Faithman's fingers?
just asking....
Why would I Ever do such a thing? I'm sane thanks, and can separate fantasy from reality.
Because YOU said it, deary....
There's no denying it now, it's entirely too late.
Just read my sig, those are words out of YOUR mouth...nobody else's mouth, just YOURS.
You're a very violent person.
1. I said someone, not me. LTR darling.
1. You're still a very violent person...even saying such a thing, not to mention sending something LETHAL in the mail...that would get you arrested, btw.
Maybe the FBI needs to hear about you....yes, I'm sure they do.
My scared fingures already took care of it....

reply from: Yuuki

LTR y'all. Learn about humor, sarcasm, hyperbole, and all those adult forms of humor. Talking about poop is only funny for so long.

reply from: faithman

In your case it is SSSSSSSOOOOOO SSSSSSOOOOO LLLLLLOOONNNNNGGGGG. It is the poop that keeps on giving...

reply from: Yuuki

... What the heck? Is that even English? Take the bottle out of your mouth.

reply from: 4choice4all

but when they run out of poo, they have butt nuggets, scancs, whores...so many juvenile words, so little time!

reply from: Yuuki

Seriously! They use the majority of the childish insults on here. But don't DARE let one of the people not in their "group" say something unkind; then suddenly it's awful!!

reply from: 4choice4all

You should've said you were going to send Scott a "poopy butt nugget" in the mail...then they would've high fived you,lol.

reply from: ProInformed

So when the chanting choicists, and clinic 'excorts', and clinic 'counselors', and the complicit in the cover-up media all tell lies that lead to thousands of babies bineg killed per day BY abortionists, plus hundreds of women being killed BY abortionists in the past few decades, are THEY held accountable for their words that leads to killing?
Tiller was an illegal abortionist, who routinely and openly broke the abortion laws in his state, laws that were supported and passed by the efforts of the citizens in his state.
The fact that the same choicist groups, politicians, and citizens who claim they want to keep abortion legal so they can protect women from illegal abortionists
openly defended Tiller's illegal operations reveals that their concern for women is faked and that they are complicit in illegal abortions, doesn't it?

reply from: sander

Worth repeating.
Wonder why no proabort has tried to tear this apart?
Hmmm........

reply from: ProInformed

During a recent demonstration outside the walls of the nation's largest abortion facility, Mr. Tiller was approached by three unassuming women, each an independent sidewalk counselor. Although Tiller regularly parks his armor-laden vehicle in a secure parking garage on his clinic property, on the morning of January 22, 2003, he declared he was "celebrating freedom" by parking his truck on the public street and walking half a block to work.
The opportunity did not go unseized. A sidewalk counselor repeatedly told abortionist Tiller that God was concerned about the babies he murders through abortion. She also expressed that God was concerned about Tiller's soul. Other counselors urged Tiller to repent for the "shedding of innocent blood," and to beg Jesus to forgive his murderous sins.
With Tiller arriving at the front gate to his property, a counselor finished her plea, "You can't go to heaven unrepentant, George; you are going to hell." The abortionist George Tiller instantly quipped, "Abortion is worth going to hell for."
The illegal abortionist Tiller CHOSE to risk his own life and his soul rather than to stop killing babies (or to even obey the law).
Unlike the thousands of women who go to so-called 'pro-choice' clinics each day, falsely assured that abortion is 'safe', trusting that unsafe illegal abortonists have all been put out of business, the illegal abortionist Tiller knew the risks but chose to continue doing illegal abortions becuase he didn't care about the babies, the women, OR even himself.

reply from: sander

He was the personifcation of lawlessness.
And all he stood for was death itself.
Now, he is experiencing what he dealt in life.

reply from: JPRice

Blame goes around.
State of Kansas for not bringing justice against Tiller.
The Church that shouldn't have let him attend there for so long without at least addressing this issue. He probably gave big donations to them.
And more blame goes around.
Our horribly liberal laws that are even called that by some Europeans. I think if one researches the matter, Holland, Germany, require women to wait a few days to think about the decision.
So, I don't mean to be judgmental of some of these institutions I mentioned but it is indeed so.

reply from: ProInformed

He was an illegal abortionist - the sort the choicists claim they supposedly protect women from - the reason they chant for defending legalized abortion. So it doesn't even make sense for the choicists to act as if he was some sort of hero to women.
Illegal abortionist Tiller CHOSE to knowingly risk his own life (and soul) because his desire to kill babies exceeded concern for his own life.
The women he endangered had no right to be warned of the risks to their lives, and the babies he killed had no rights at all.
The law-abiding citizens and legislators in his state who had tried repeatedly to stop him from breaking the law were opposed by the powerful wealthy abortion industry and pro-abort politicians who defended him (while the stupid chanting choicists still didn't catch on that by doing so they were revealing that their supposed goal of protecting women from illegal abortionists was just a lie?!?!?)
An illegal abortionist:
who endangered women
and killed babies even up to the day before their due date
and openly scoffed at the laws and citizens objections
and bragged about it
and had decided that his own life and soul were not too great a price to pay for 'free sex' and 'abortion rights'...
CHOSE to risk his life and soul...
And supposedly this is some great tragedy for the women he was illegally endangering?

reply from: Yuuki

They may be a pro-choice church.

reply from: 4choice4all

ECLA is a prochoice denomination...not proabortion, but prochoice.
There are many people that have issues with prochoice churches. Some also have problems with ordained women ministers. Some more have issues with gay clergy. It's nothing new....people will find reasons to denounce churches that don't fall in line with their own thinking.

reply from: JPRice

The church may have had some pro-choice stances but I don't think their positions pertain to accepting Tiller's practice. The church needed to be responsible. Tiller did not fall into the accepted practices.
""This church opposes ending intrauterine life when a fetus is developed enough to live outside a uterus with the aid of reasonable and necessary technology. If a pregnancy needs to be interrupted after this point, every reasonable and necessary effort should be made to support this life, unless there are lethal fetal abnormalities indicating that the prospective newborn will die very soon."
....
"...On the other hand, this church supports legislation that prohibits abortions that are performed after the fetus is determined to be viable, except when the mother's life is threatened or when lethal abnormalities indicate the prospective newborn will die very soon."
Your own post quoted:
"Because of our conviction that both the life of the woman and the life in her womb must be respected by law, this church opposes:
* the total lack of regulation of abortion; Arguably, this would leave out Tiller's practice
* legislation that would outlaw abortion in all circumstances;
* laws that prevent access to information about all options available to women faced with unintended pregnancies;
* laws that deny access to safe and affordable services for morally justifiable abortions;
* mandatory or coerced abortion or sterilization;
* laws that prevent couples from practicing contraception;
* laws that are primarily intended to harass those contemplating or deciding for an abortion.
http://www.elca.org/What-We-Believe/Social-Issues/Social-Statements/Abortion.aspx

reply from: 4choice4all

Tiller's practice was regulated.
Obviously they knew what Tiller did, welcomed him and received no sanctions by church authority for it. Some churches do not oppose abortion being legal.

reply from: galen

It seems to me that if you are OK with abortion after viability then logically you should be OK with any killing post viability...even Tillers... As this is not the case with the churches.. then i would think that perhaps you should look again at your own views on what is and what is not murder, lest you become comfortable with the notion that anyone who feels you may be an inconvienence to them will be allowed to abort/murder, you.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

reply from: 4choice4all

Well..you keep dancing around the fact that I think personhood rights are bestowed on a person at birth. Failing to recognize that stops real dialogue in it's tracks. I at least recognize that you feel personhood starts at conception...I simply disagree. And finally...abortion is not murder, by definition. Murder is the ILLEGAL act of taking a life...abortion is perfectly legal. So it makes no sense that one that is comfortable with abortion(legal) is comfortable with murder(illegal). But again...your statement to me was not about dialogue but about rhetoric.
Beautiful statement by Niemoller....unfortunately, has nothing to do with abortion...since the people mentioned were all born and imo, worthy of protection...like abortion providers.

reply from: CDC700

When SLAVERY was legal, did that make it right too? When killing JEWS was legal, was that okay? Would you have been a slave trader or SS Trooper? Probably so by your logic.

reply from: 4choice4all

Slaves were born, Jews were born...what don't you get? You are just being obtuse and trying to pawn it off as being reflective...blech.

reply from: CDC700

Questioning your ideology. That's all.

reply from: JPRice

I might be able to reason with this, but I think, then, they should make the right to terminate up to a person's 16th birthday so parents can terminate their children any time up to as long as it is done in their own house.
Why draw the line at birth? Parents should have the right to terminate their offspring up until their 16th birthday, just as reasonable.

reply from: churchmouse

PRO-CHOICE IS PRO-ABORTION. The church was pro-abortion.
No its the other way around. Look to see what God says. I asked you this before but you ran.....find me one scripture where God condones abortion. Find one where gay sex is honoring God. Show one where God condones sex outside marriage. Show one where God says woman can preach.
Its not about what we think, its about what scripture says.
So 1 minute before its born it isn't a person and the minute it comes out of the womb, it is a person. LOL
You know I was thinking about the Scott Peterson verdict. He was convicted on first-degree murder in the death of his pregnant wife, Laci Peterson, and second-degree murder in the death of his unborn son Conner.
They must have recognized that he was a person.
Did you also know that a pregnant woman cant be put to death while she is pregnant. They must recognize what ever stage of pregnancy she is in that what she is carrying is a person.
Have you ever had kids?
If you have what did you feel when they were moving around in your belly? Nothing? I mean they werent anything right?
For 4choice4all......it had to be wrong for the war to free the slaves to have happened. She is against violence even if it protects something. What is legal is moral for her.
If pediphilia was made legal she would think that was ok.

reply from: JPRice

Sounds more like Christian bashing to me since said poster claims not to be Christian and has a dismissive slogan. Really got it figured out, call people idiots who point out Obama's voting for live infants to be left to die, yet quote Martin Luther King, a Reverend, yet, put down Christians right under. That is merely the truth.
Of course, more grievous sins are those we would seek to stay away with.
Though Biblical quotations can be brought out:
James 2":For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder."If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker."
Matters of Theology.

reply from: CDC700

None of your anti-Christian drivel is interesting.

reply from: 4choice4all

Where does God condemn abortion? Where is abortion discussed in scripture? We've talked about this at length...I've run from nothing..you just refuse to discuss what i've posted. You want to hash out God's views on homosexuality, abortion and women preachers because you are infuriated that not all people of faith have come to the same conclusions you have...fine. And we will ...and it will come back to interpretation...and then you will say well your interpretation is wrong, I'll say it's right...and we can start the dance all over again...the same one we've done on different threads...the same one that has been going on since before the time of Martin Luther....sure, let's continue to do the dance of intolerance in regards to other people's religious beliefs. OR ...we can accept that there is no consensus in the world of religion on the number of Gods, the number of prophets, the word of God, the word of the prophets...and on and on. And just sort of work our discussion from the point that biblically, we don't agree.

reply from: Faramir

This has not been my observation, possibly because I have little concern for the sins of others, as I've got my own sins to deal with, and those are the ones that get my attention.

reply from: churchmouse

That is not true. Sin is sin no matter who is doing it and ITS ALL UNGODLY. Sin separates one from God and unless one stops doing it, God will discipline them.
No one is perfect so sin will always be temptation. When I accepted Christ I gave up a lot of things....friends too. I used to go play golf in a ladies group, they drank a lot. So I quit and only played with the gals that did not drink with the purpose of getting drunk. I stopped going to R rated movies that contained sex content. I try to surround myself with people who have the same lifestyle as my own. That does not mean I have friends that are not believers I do. My close ones are believers however because we are on the same page.
I have a prayer and accountability partner I am close with. She keeps me grounded and growing in the Word. I do the same for her. She also is not afraid to tell me if I am not acting in a way that does not glorify God.
I try to NOT SIN. I watch who I am with and where I go. Just last week my daughters friend invited me to a bacherette party. They were having a stripper so I turned it down. I sin....but I am proactive about NOT SINNING.
A true Christian is one who loves God and allows Him to make the decisions in their life.......they worship Him in all things and they try to live a pure life. Intentions have to be there. Is someone a true Christian if they know adultry is sin but continually have affairs? Is someone a true Christian if they are living in sin outside marriage when they know what the Word says?
No, you show where he condones it. Show the bulk of scriptures where God wants us to kill.
I gave you scriptures to back up Gods love for the unborn and you RAN. You would not address even one of them.
Here they are again.
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart." (Jeremiah 1:5)
This was John the Baptist in the womb.
"Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His" (Galatians 1:15)
"For you created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mothers womb...Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be." Psalms 139;13-16
"Your hands shaped me and made me" did you not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews.?" You gave me life." Job 10:8-12
"This is what the Lord says- He who made you, who formed you in the womb" Isaiah 44:2
"Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?" Job 31:15
Exodus 21:22-23
If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined....but if there is serious injury you are to take life for life."
""I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." Deut 30:19"
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Romans 12:1
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
Luke 1:15
15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.
Think a child might be filled with the Holy spirit in the womb?
So if the Holy Spirit can be present in the womb what happens when an abortionist kills it? Are they hurting the mother or the child?
Galatians 1:15-16
15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased, to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,"
It's plain to see that we are God's property not our own. God has plans ordained for us long before we come into this world.
What right does anyone have to kill that which is GODS IN THE WOMB/
Which of these dont you get?
This is what I would have asked Tiller....and what I ask anyone that condones abortion.
Is abortion a righteous act? Is killing for an occupation a righteous one in Gods eyes?
"Be careful about not living righteously merely to be seen by people. Otherwise you have no reward with your Father in heaven (Matthew 6:1)."
Tiller needed to do this.
"He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy."
- Proverbs 28:13
Address these scriptures.
Also I mentioned that God never mentioned the word pedipelia and that it was wrong. So are you saying because He didnt mention the word its an acceptable act? I mean do you condone pediphiles?
You know the words in the bible are not hard to understand. A child can get this stuff. But the problem ..are people who dont want to accept the Word and they want to find an out for the sin in their lives.
Find me scriptures that undo what God says about homosexuality. Find me scriptures or examples of where God condones same sex marriage. Find me scripture where God says rip the unborn from the womb any which way you want.
If you are not smart enough to deduct for yourself what these SIMPLE SCRIPTURES SAY.......then I dont know what to tell ya. They are easy and plain to understand. You have a problem with God and His Word.......not me, I only quote what He says. I mean how many ways can you interprete these scriptures I provided?
Christ said this....."I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE, NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME."
So does it say in this verse that someone makes it to heaven any other way but through Christ?
Did He say there were many ways? Did He say that you could get life through any other person? Who did He say was the Truth?
How about this verse, ""I tell you the truth, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God... unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God (John 3:3,5)."
So how do you interpret this one? Can you get to heaven if you have not accepted Christ?
The Bible is fairly easy to understand. What is your excuse?
If you want to be a hockey player you play by the rules. All NHL players play from the same rule book. There are three periods, not two...etc. You dont look at the ref and say gee we are behind give us another period to catch up. And you cant look at God and say "Gee I just died and I realized that I was wrong, can I have another chance, another period."
The Bible is clear, no negotiating, no tossing out scripture and not adding anyone to it. if you want to be a Christian its Gods way not yours.
So you have doubts about your Christian faith. You obviously have doubts as to whether the Word is true or you would want everyone to share the joy of Christ. As a Christian there are a few things that Christ commanded you to do. Obviously you do not know about the Great Commission where Christ commands His believers to spread the Gospel message. It does not sound like you think this is to important. How could you spread something you dont even believe in. You cna tell that by your statement.
Do you even know why Christ came to earth?
Concerned you do one thing and one thing only. You mock the Christian faith any chance you get....the Humanistic way.

reply from: Faramir

A male stripper?
Like one of those chippendale dudes?
Must have been a struggle to resist that one.

reply from: Faramir

I hope that's not your approach, "You're a sinner, here's why."
Some people are revulsed by pushiness. I'm not saying you are that way in real life, but you come across that way here sometimes.
Not everyone is ready RIGHT NOW to accept everything you have to offer. They need time to reflect, think, and make their own decisions. They need space. Crowding them will only drive them away, and it's not because they're sinners, but because they feel the pressure of someone ele's will--like someone who is being very insistent that you buy a vaccuum cleaner right now.
I was once ready to buy a car from a salesman, but he bacame so pushy when I wanted one more day to consider, that I didn't go back.
People resent when religion is "sold."

reply from: Faramir

This has not been my observation, possibly because I have little concern for the sins of others, as I've got my own sins to deal with, and those are the ones that get my attention.
From what I know of you, you appear to be the exception to the rule. I know a few other Christians (who I greatly admire and respect, by the way) who come off as selfless, sincere, and who truly seem to "walk the walk," molding their lives so as to conform to the teachings of Christ rather than bending those teachings so as to make them conform to the way they choose to live.
I consider your response to be representative of the attitude Christ attempted to instill in His followers. It is, in my view, a healthy attitude for even a non-believer. Sadly, some seem to place great importance on their own presumed moral superiority, and it is not difficult for me to imagine Jesus telling them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Thank you. Ten years ago you would have said I'm an ass, and I would have deserved it (though sometimes I deserve that now, based on my behavior here). I learned to be a little bit humble (and I know I have a long long way to go in that department), not from being disgusted by my pride and making an effort to change, but simply because I've been knocked around, gone through some hard times, and have considered finding relief in doing things I would have condemned others for doing. Were it not for a little age and experience, I likely would have gone beyond just contemplating them.
It's taken me a long time to get to the point of not feeling superiour to others because of their "greater" sins than mine, but I now realize how fragile I am and that I'm capeable of doing those things too, so I have nothing to boast about.
(I remember also when I was a vegan I felt superior to meat eaters. I wonder if it's somewhat "natural" for us to look for reasons to feel better than others, even outside of religion).

reply from: 4choice4all

churchmouse....you prove my point. You ooze intolerance. I never see Christ in your posts...I see hate and contempt...always.
God never condemns abortion. She doesn't specifically spell out to go drink lots of diet dr.pepper...but I do that to. My point is....we do plenty of things that God didn't specifically condone....like drive cars, see movies, paint the kitchen...and those things are not condemned either. SO ....God doesn't spell out "get an abortion"....but I also don't believe that God says abortion is wrong. I think the bible is actually pretty silent on aborting the unborn.
Your passages about loving the unborn proves what? I assume God loves all of creation...but there are plenty of passages discussing how and when to destroy parts of that creation.
I believe abortion can be a righteous act...and a righteous one in the eyes of God...absolutely. Many people of faith feel the same way. That's a reality you won't accept...that people of faith may disagree with you.
No..I don't condone pedophilia.....I've made it clear that we should protect the born.
And I say to you again...if your faith is so shallow that a 2 yo can chew and digest it...you aren't getting to the meat, my dear. I think the bible is very clear. I think Jesus himself was very clear....he talked in simple parables so even you could understand. All these divisions you want.....where is God in that? How are you following Christ? neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male nor female.....for we are all one in Jesus Christ. You would like to divide us....you would like to go back to legalism and not touch your neighbor on the sabbath...the law! the law! Is that what He died on the cross for? So you could go back to dividing us according to sinner and saint? So YOU could be the judge?
No one comes to the Father but through me......your translation differs from mine. See....first, we have to interpret this because surely you don't believe JC literally means we have to walk through his body or somehow dart and dive to get around him. So what does he mean through me? What did JC concern himself with? How about his famous command "follow me"? Who is more Christ like....a man that in cold blood shoots a man in the head in church or a hindu that refuses to take up arms and creates an entire world movement based on peaceful nonviolent resistance? A man that inspires people to peacefully resolve the civil rights issue in the US? Which person is acting more christlike...which person seems to espouse "follow me"? Someone that sits in church, kneels at the right time, puts offerings in the plate and goes home and *****s his daughter and beats his wife...all while professing there is one God and JC is his saviour....OR a someone that always felt conflicted but always was a good person and devoted their life to social work? Some of us believe that JC meant it.....you won't get to God unless you get there through him....and he is not a mere mortal to be worshiped....he is a movement...he is a spirit of love....and he commands you to follow him..and when you do you are born again through him. But you know.....you can try to walk through Jesus if you see him and see if that literal reading works.
I'm grounded....I'm secure in my faith....worry about your own house....worry about that log in your eye.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Baby-killer says: Jesus talked in simple parables so a person could understand? You understand abortion can be a righteous act?
This verse is for you blind unrighteous baby-killer:
Matthew 13:34,10,11 "...Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them...." "And the disciples came and said to Him, 'Why do you speak to them in parables?' He answered and said to them, 'Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.'"
Babykiller, your eyes don't see and your ears don't hear. You are not healed. You are still in your sins.
The truth is, Jesus spoke in parables so that you would not understand.
A division between baby-killers and those who support, care and nurture babies is good.

reply from: churchmouse

No it really wasn't. I have no desire to see anything like that.
Did Jesus tell us not to be concerned with the lost? I think it was the opposite wasn't it? Didn't Jesus say to spread the gospel message? Part of that Gospel message is the law and the effects of sin without Christ.
So we shouldn't be concerned with others sin especially if that sin could affect us?
If a sin affects you directly, such as somebody stealing from you, you have a choice on how to respond. Do you turn the other cheek and say, "Here, feel free to take what is not yours." Or do you take steps to prevent this from happening again?
How about the man who has an affair and gets a STD and gives it to his wife. She is affected by his sin. We have a right to call a Christian out on their actions if they are ungodly. We have every right to make righteous judgements.
Paul says, "we uphold the law" (Romans 3:31) So how do you think we should do this?
Luke 7:43
And the Lord Jesus said unto him: "Thou hast rightly judged."
Luke 12:57
"Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?"
John 7:24
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
1John 2:29
"If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him." 3:10) "..whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
The evidence shows that Christians are called rightoues but to also make righteous judgements. You cant do that unless you know what God considers sin.
"Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you" Matt. 7:1-2
Deut. 1:16
"And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him."
Prov. 31:9
"Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy."
I would think that you would care enough about people who are lost to tell them that what they are doing is wrong in Gods eyes. And how God can save them.
Was Tiller wrong? If you say yes then you imply that there is good and his actions are bad. And you base that standard of good on what God says is good. You are judging Tiller. And I would hope that if you had had the chance to meet him you would have lovingly told him so. I would think that you would willingly stand up at his church and make your case for Christ and righteous behavior.
We all should be Christian apologists and defend the faith. And to defend the faith we have to talk about the Law that God gave us. The Law tells us what is sin and what isn't. You should also be concerned about those who do not know the law. God gave it to us so that we could see our sinful nature.
Some people think they are so perfect that they dont have to hold themselves accountable to the law let alone other people. Why do you think Paul wrote about the Law?
Because the principle of law was given to unregenerate mankind. The unsaved need to know about why they need Christ. And sin is the reason. Christ commanded us to do this.
The Law made man aware of his lost-in-sin condition. He needed a remedy for his sin. Christ was that remedy. The Law led men to His coming.
It is not my approach however I have seen others do it and it has worked. I love Kirk Cameron. He teamed together with Ray Comfort and wrote a book called, The Way of the Master. They teach people how to share their faith.
When I go to work I take my Bible study or whatever book I am reading to work. I leave it out so people can see it. If they ask me about it....I take that as an opportunity to start talking about my faith. I had worked with this boy for almost two years before he asked me questions. Customers also ask and I have met a lot of my friends this way. I might go to the grocery store and just simply say God bless you to someone.....you can't imagine the conversations I get into, just from saying those three words.
But no I do not walk up unless I know that person is a Christian especially a stranger and tell them they are sinning. I might use other language like... what you are doing is wrong. My sons friends girlfriend was a stripper. He comes to church occasionally and I pointed out her ungodly behavior of course in a nice way. He is like a son to me.
And you know what....other friends and family have corrected my behavior when I step off the path. They do it because they love me.
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/

Well what if you had the opportunity to witness to someone and you didn't and they died the next day without hearing the gospel message. How would you feel about that missed opportunity?
You don't have to preach to people, and certainly no one should be pushy. But we are commanded to spread the Good News. God did not suggest it, He commanded it.
I don't try to sell Christ....I try to share Christ and what He has done in my life.
I know I might come across pushy here but I am not. I have had a lot of missed opportunities in my life where I could have shared the gospel and didn't.
I am accused of being morally superior to others. You are so wrong. I have shared my sin on this website multiple times. I don't try to cover up what I have done in my life particularly the abortion I had. I need Christ because I am NOT PERFECT and becuase I do sin.
If I feel anything its sorrow for those who don't know Him and they mock Him simply for pleasure.
Concerned it is just an observation but I am sure you get a thrill each time you mock the Word. You do it in almost every post......your like a cat hiding ready to pounce on prey. Superior? Oh you do it ever so politely but you do it for a reason and it is not to teach, its to mock.
4choice4all......
Again I gave you scriptures to comment on and you ignored them.
Have you ever done a deductive bible study on any topic?
And for your information believers are one in Christ.... unbelievers are not.
You talk about getting to the meat. Yet you won't address and you never post scriptures to back your position up.
Sin divides people. God wants us protected from the unrighteous. I can tell by your comments that you do not understand the nature of the law and Christs relationship to it.
You have more digs against the Word than Concerned does. And you claim to be a believer.

reply from: JPRice

The Bible says Thou shalt not kill; going directly to the heart of the matter, this is enough for me. This is reasonable. A reasonable person following the Bible should be able to see this. "Be fruitful and multiply", that is in the Bible too. Is abortion being fruitful and multiplying? Not in my view.
One can websearch to find Christian websites with their reasoning as to why abortion is wrong and probably having much more scripture citing why abortion is wrong.
But that above scripture doesn't seem to require more. We are dealing with people of different faiths here.
Even the Buddhist religion is deadset against abortion, those ones from India surely are too, let alone one's like Islam. It might make me wonder, why are all religions against abortion??
I've got to think, if one is saying, "well it's not proven to me", they are just being defiant and rebellious.

reply from: 4choice4all

Mouse..I thought I did answer them.
Yes...I have studied the bible with others. Do you not recognize that there is nothing original about my beliefs or interpretations of scripture? I was not baptized until adulthood and I did not take my conversion lightly....nor did my church or my pastor. I continue to engage in bible study outside of my own denomination. One of my closest friends is a methodist minister and we discuss religion regularly. She and her husband are both ordained and have been instrumental in guiding me to other sources.
I don't believe in a God that cast unbelievers to hell. My God is bigger and better than petty divisions amongst those She created. Is it not at all interesting to you that the faith you profess has a lot to do with the area of the world you are born into? That's so random. A God that would cast aside those born in muslim nations or buddhist nations is not a God I can recognize.
Why do I need to quote you the scriptures? Have you not read the bible? Does your bible have different books than mine? Are we not working from the same source?
I don't "claim" to be a believer...I am. And I find you far more hurtful to Christianity than just about anyone that post here. In the name of God you condemn, exclude and belittle. Where is God in that? How is that Christ like?

reply from: 4choice4all

Rice...I do think scripture needs more than a google search to get right. And not all religions or all people of faith condemn abortion. If there were mass consensus I dare say we wouldn't be arguing about it.

reply from: Faramir

I don't know where to begin, but for now just want to make it clear that I have never said or implied this and I don't believe that to be the case. I believe you are sincere and have the best intentions.

reply from: Faramir

Churchmouse,
I think "dogmatic" might be a better word than "pushy."
You think you have "the" interpretation of a scipture and how it should be applied, and you often take one-liners out of context, as you did in your "proof" that we are supposed to "judge" each other, and I would have to write a thesis to explain why I disagree, so I'll just let it go.
Sometimes you do come across pushy, however, and that repels rather than attracts, but I'm happy to know that you are different in real life. I think message board personas are often gross distortions of the real person. For example, I make an ass out of myself 50% of the time on this board, but in real life it's more like 25% of the time.
But I think you missed the overall principle of my stating that I am concerned about my sins and not the sins of others.
Just like I should help the poor and needy with what Catholics refer to as "corporal works of mercy," so should I also perform "SPIRITUAL works of mercy,"--but I am not necessarily qualified to do all:
To instruct the ignorant;
To counsel the doubtful;
To admonish sinners;
To bear wrongs patiently;
To forgive offences willingly;
To comfort the afflicted;
To pray for the living and the dead.
My knowledge is limited, so I might not have what it takes to instruct the ignorant, and I might not have the skills to counsel the doubtul. Admonishing sinners takes a very special tact and wisdom, and it must be done with extreme humility. I'll pass on that if I think I will come across as an arrogant ass trying to look superior to them, and if I do come across that way, I will not get through to them.
For the most part, I don't yet feel at all qualified to work on the sins of others. I've still got my hands full with my own.
But the last four, anyone can and should do, and the first three of the last four can work wonders in helping sinners, without preaching about their sins, as can the "corporal works of mercy":
To feed the hungry;
To give drink to the thirsty;
To clothe the naked;
To harbour the harbourless;
To visit the sick;
To ransom the captive;
To bury the dead.
When you give money to the homeless, you are "preaching" to them at those times too, and could even be admonishing them for their sins, without saying a word.

reply from: Faramir

God is neither male nor female but has all the perfections of both, and transcends both.
HOWEVER, God is always referred to as "HE" in the scrpirtures and am wondering why you use "SHE." Is it just to piss some of us off?
If you read scriptures and see "He" for God, how do you handle that?

reply from: CDC700

God is neither male nor female but has all the perfections of both, and transcends both.
HOWEVER, God is always referred to as "HE" in the scrpirtures and am wondering why you use "SHE." Is it just to piss some of us off?
If you read scriptures and see "He" for God, how do you handle that?
It's really pretty simple. 4choice relishes and delights in going "against the grain" at any cost. If it breaks tradition or would be found offensive to most, she will dive right in. It's more than likely a mental disorder but she would need to seek professional and spiritual help to fix it. There's not much you or anyone else can do to "help" other than ignore the frequent attempts at stirring a ruckus. Simply put, she'll do or say whatever she deems necessary to get any good or bad attention (though seemingly it is the bad attention she is seeking)

reply from: Banned Member

Kirk Cameron is a chode. He's put his nose in where it doesn't belong. I can't stand that prick....
You do realize that the majority of American have heard 'the Word' before, right? You should be honest, your goal isn't just to share 'the Word' (*rolls eyes*), it's to beat people over the head with it.

reply from: faithman

Kirk Cameron is a chode. He's put his nose in where it doesn't belong. I can't stand that prick....
You do realize that the majority of American have heard 'the Word' before, right? I should be honest, you goal isn't just to share 'the Word' (*rolls eyes*), it's to beat people over the head with it.
http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby11.html

reply from: sander

Kirk Cameron is a chode. He's put his nose in where it doesn't belong. I can't stand that prick....
You do realize that the majority of American have heard 'the Word' before, right? I should be honest, you goal isn't just to share 'the Word' (*rolls eyes*), it's to beat people over the head with it.
Everytime you open your vile mouth is to beat others about the head.
You've got some stinking nerve to complain about others.
Hypocrite.

reply from: Banned Member

Oh...how is that? Care to elaborate?

reply from: JPRice

You are a bigot Syrenity.
A Muslim shot and killed a Military Recruiter last week, but no one is broad brushing the whole religion of Islam with this act.
http://www.jillstanek.com

reply from: Banned Member

Ummm, how am I a bigot? Who am I broad brushing? I'm not sure what it is you are talking about, your posts rarely make sense to me. But if you are saying that I am blaming all pro-lifers for Tiller, then you are mistaken. Please, show where I have implied this, at all.
Other than that, what could you possibly mean? Are you saying I don't like Christians because I don't like Kirk Camaron? I can't stand him, I was just saying, doesn't mean I hate all Christians. I am allowed to dislike people, you know. I don't have a problem with Christians in general, I was raised a Christian, & all my family are Christians. But I do dislike when people try to force their religious beliefs on me. That is my right too.
So, please tell me how I am a bigot?
P.S. A very great deal of people blame all of Islam for every act committed by Muslims, whether they be acting alone, or they belong to a group of extremists. A lot of those people are on this board. You should think before you speak.

reply from: churchmouse

I don't know but you are putting your views first. The scriptures I gave in no way condone abortion. As I said Christ never utters the word abortion, but does he have to? Christ never mentioned the word/act pedophile, but you think, that is not morally right. I have to believe that you based it on the whole Word in its entirety. And that is what you must do with the issue of life in the womb the way God sees it. I gave many of the verses and they specifically imply that God values the unborn. Many verses also point out that the Holy Spirit was present in the unborn. So if God at the moment of conception fills the unborn with His Spirit, then how can you condone slaughtering it, for whatever the reason the woman wants.
One need not be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God. The thief next to Christ went to heaven. He was not baptized.
It seems you attend and study with people whose take on the bible more liberally. I personally do not believe that women should preach from the pulpit. I believe that God calls women to His service but not in this way.
1 Timothy 2: 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
This verse specifically calls women to study the scriptures but to do it in silence. We should learn about Christ in the Word.
1 Timothy 2: 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
So we see here that a woman is not to instruct, instill doctrine, explain or expound, or teach a man.
God has always had a chain of command. He made Adam first, then Eve to be his helpmate. Man was given original authority. Eves authority came from Adam.
Paul implies in his writings that women have a greater tendency to spiritual deception because she ate the apple first.
Many people think that these teachings were only for the time when they were first written. If that were the case then you could throw out the entire Word.
People change the Word to fit what they think should be right. Paul knew this would happen so God breathed this scripture to him.
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
These are Gods Words. And if you believe that the entire Bible is God breathed then you can't toss some verses out. To imply that women not teaching in the past does not apply today...says that God changes and we know from most of scripture that, this is not true.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. 1 Corinthians 12 :6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
If His Word stood then, it stands today, the meaning has not changed.
I reject anyone's claim that the Word applies differently today than it did back when Christ walked the earth.
Church should affect society not the other way around.
You are rejecting Christ then. He came for the lost, the sinner. If you say He would not do this, judge the unbeliever according to the Word the way He promised, then you are calling Christ a liar. He stated point blank that those who rejected Him would not spend eternity with Him. I don't know who these people are you think know the Word but IMO based on the Word that I read, they do not. They are deceiving you and they are false prophets.
Did you know that Christ talked about hell more than he talked about heaven. Why? He did not want people to perish. You might be a really sincere person but still be wrong. Some people think that God will accept them because they lead decent, upright lives. BUT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH HINGES ON GODS FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS, NOT ON WHAT WE MAY HAVE DONE FOR OTHERS. If everyone makes it......then why lead a godly life, why repent if you make it?
Read Proverbs 14:12. " There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. " I beg you to take another look into the Word.
The prophet Isaiah taught that the God of the Bible is the ONLY God, when he said in Isaiah 37:16, "O Lord Almighty...you alone are God over all the Kingdoms."
Being nice and a sincere religious person is not the standard God uses. God judges according to Truth. You know I was praying that your views on abortion were the only ungodly views you had in the Word. Your take on the entire Bible explains exactly why you are pro-abortion. It makes sense now.
God has made the way to Him quite clear and it is through Jesus Christ. There is no other way, Jesus tells us this HIMSELF.
CHRIST said, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.' Acts 4:12
One must accept Christ for salvation.
If everyone makes it......why did Christ die?
A believer in what? A Savior who lies to us? Don't listen to me then read for yourself.
Again.......Why did Jesus have to die for us....if we all make it. Why did He come?

reply from: churchmouse

I am not preaching, I am showing love to my neighbor and God commands us to do that. I am fortunate to have a wonderful home and family, food, etc. I live in Arizona where in the summer we enjoy days over 110 degrees. The money I give them might just give them enough to buy a bottle of water. It might be just enough money to buy them a bus ticket or lodging. Would Jesus pass by someone in need? And what do you really accuse me of doing Faramir just say it.
Now I am mousey? LMArseO I am a saint as is anyone who has accepted Christ. I am a sinner saved by Grace who tries not to sin. I do not intentionally sin. In everything I do I try to serve God. I continually fall short in my actions and I need Christ.

You are an unbeliever that enjoys mocking God that much is obvious. I am sure you know this scripture.
Sometimes the best defense when confronted with verbal attacks is to simply remain quiet and praise God. If I have any confidence it is in His love and faithfulness and nothing that I do. I will continue praying that God change your heart.
I have called myself a murderer and have talked about the horrendous sin I committed. I have also talked about how God forgave and saved me, not because I deserved it but because I asked forgiveness and repented. He can't and won't forgive unless you ask.
Boy do you have a dirty mouth. You show exactly why Christ came. So Cameron can't stand up for what he believes? Where is your tolerance for those you disagree with? He loves God and he takes the commandments given by God seriously. He had a Hollywood career and essentially gave it up to do the Lords work.
It is funny to see those who reject the Word when it clearly convicts them. Where is his nose supposed to be Syrenity?
Faithman that picture was horrendous. God help us and God help those here that condone such acts. Why God would not destroy us I do not know. This work is satanic, evil and anyone that condones abortion is not full of the Holy Spirit, they are anti-Christ. They stand among the evil spirits of this world.
I apologize for my behavior if I have hurt anyone by the words that I speak. I love the Lord and want others to know that love. What I have to understand is that some will never see because their hearts are hardened. Some are not ready for the Word. And that is not my problem. However I will not compromise the Word and in sharing it. It is God breathed and without error. I give God praise because He loves me and He shows great faithfulness. His name and His Word are exalted.
I have great faith in this verse. Philipians 1:6
"For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

reply from: Faramir

Good grief, I was praising you for your good deeds. I think it's wonderful.
The point was that this is a wordless way to "preach" or to get a message to someone.
I didn't mean "preach" in a negative sense.

reply from: faithman

Ummm, how am I a bigot? Who am I broad brushing? I'm not sure what it is you are talking about, your posts rarely make sense to me. But if you are saying that I am blaming all pro-lifers for Tiller, then you are mistaken. Please, show where I have implied this, at all.
Other than that, what could you possibly mean? Are you saying I don't like Christians because I don't like Kirk Camaron? I can't stand him, I was just saying, doesn't mean I hate all Christians. I am allowed to dislike people, you know. I don't have a problem with Christians in general, I was raised a Christian, & all my family are Christians. But I do dislike when people try to force their religious beliefs on me. That is my right too.
So, please tell me how I am a bigot?
P.S. A very great deal of people blame all of Islam for every act committed by Muslims, whether they be acting alone, or they belong to a group of extremists. A lot of those people are on this board. You should think before you speak.
http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby11.html

reply from: 4choice4all

I believe God calls women to ordination. You are correct that I fall in line with liberal christianity..I've made that clear in other posts. There is nothing new about liberal christianity and again, liberal is not used in the sense we are used to it being used in modern US politics. If you are interested :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Christianity

That will save a lot of typing for those unfamiliar with the term.
I find nothing christ like about you on this board. You are boastful, vain, have no compassion, judgemental, critical. When faced with people that talk of their faith you ridicule and demean. And I think that you don't see it. But others see it in you...and we point it out to you. I'm not criticizing your religious beliefs...they are different from mine, but they are yours. I'm asking you to be more aware of the words and actions you justify through your beliefs.

reply from: Banned Member

He can stand up for whatever he wants, he can play in as many crappy low budget movies as he wants, he can appear on Bill (the jackass) O'Reilly, he can make an ass out of himself making videos about bananas, I don't care. But, he stuck his nose in other peoples religion. He "infiltrated" a Druid ritual during the autumnal equinox, secretly recorded the ritual, then went on to play it & mock it & misrepresent it on his radio show. Please, explain what right he has to do this? He is a *****ing as*hole, period. He wants to spread hate & misunderstanding of the religion of others. That's a real big man there, let me tell you.
And yes, I do have a potty mouth. And, your point? Do I not have freedom of speech, hmmm? Do I offend you? Well , the feeling is mutual, I assure you.

reply from: Banned Member

Not that I think many of you will bother listening to it, but just in case you try to accuse me of making this up, here is a link...
http://cdn3.libsyn.com/deo/episode32a.mp3?nvb=20090608190234&nva=20090609191234&t=000ca8f924211fd2a7a23

reply from: yoda

Kinda like how a very great deal of people blame all of the prolife movement for every act committed by someone who is against abortion?
Is that what you mean?

reply from: yoda

You're absolutely right, and that's not even the half of it. We're the nastiest, most viscous gang of cut throats in the whole world. Does that cover it?
Now then, how does that make your support of baby killing less immoral?

reply from: Banned Member

Kinda like how a very great deal of people blame all of the prolife movement for every act committed by someone who is against abortion?
Is that what you mean?
I was about to sit here & re-explain my post to you, but then I realized that I would playing into your hand, so I won't. Any one who read my post & the post I was responding to knows why I wrote that. You know why to, you are just up to your same old juvenile tricks. Aren't you like 80 years old? Don't you think it's time to grow up?

reply from: Faramir

It's sad that he went out of his way to ridicule the beliefs and practices of others.
That was not a good thing to do, but I don't know much about him or the rest of what he does, so I don't want to judge him by that one incident.

reply from: 4choice4all

I had poster of Kirk all over my walls as a kid. Loved him on Growing Pains. I've followed his adult life a bit just because I once planned on marrying him,lol. I agree on not judging him on one action. I will also say that I think he confuses being righteous with being right. And he's more about being "right". And i think there's a whole lot of ego involved in being right....and no room for ego in being righteous. If your religion and faith can only stand on the backs of those that you deem inferior....it's not a strong and enduring faith.

reply from: carolemarie

I agree that women can and should be ordained. Not all Christians believe that women are second class citizens.
I think we are called to love one another, and not hate each other. It is all about relationship

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I agree that women can and should be ordained. Not all Christians believe that women are second class citizens.
I think we are called to love one another, and not hate each other. It is all about relationship
The Apostle Paul was pretty clear on governmental authority; and religion is Government.

reply from: 4choice4all

obviously not clear enough.....

reply from: faithman

For a prodeath scumbag idiot like you, that is obvious.

reply from: churchmouse

">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Christianity"[/Q
He does not call them to ordination and scripture does not back this up. Not that I can see. Do ya every wonder why all the disciples were men? Your views are liberal across the board, pro-abortion etc. I bet you do not think Jesus was God do you? Do you deny the virgin birth? Do you believe Christ rose from the dead? I bet you do not.

Well that is not surprising to me. We do not agree on anything especially about Christ, who He was and what He came to do. I do not believe that your version of the Truth is scriptural. I have asked you several time to show me but you havent and obviously wont. You are criticizing my beliefs do you also see that? I quote the bible to support my views but you do not. Why? It's because you reject most the Word and can't give a reason why, other than our culture demands another answer.
Christ said several times that unless one accepts Him they do not go to Heaven. Yet you deny that. And you will not address scriptures.What do you base your faith on?
Why did Christ come? If everyone makes it.......then why did He have to die?
Are you talking about the film, Fireproof?
Here are the facts about that film, the one you said was a flop.
"On a budget of $500,000, Fireproof opened in theaters on September 26, 2008, and was the highest grossing independent film of 2008, with $33,456,317 domestically. Reviews for the film were mixed, with Christians groups giving positive reviews and film critics giving generally negative reviews. It was also released to DVD on January 27, 2009, with over $25,000,000 in DVD sales. The film received the Best Feature Film award at the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival."
"Fireproof's advance sales accounted for 40% of all Fandango sales the week before before the film opened. It was released on September 26, 2008 in 839 theaters. In its first weekend, Fireproof grossed $6,836,036, putting it in fourth place at the box office. In each of its first four weeks in theatrical release, it gained theaters; with 839 in its first weekend, 852 in its second, 875 in its third, 905 in its fourth, and began to slowly drop from then-on. During its run, Fireproof had a domestic gross of $33,456,317, more than tripling the lifetime earnings of its predecessor, Facing the Giants, and moving it into the top 5 Christian films by earnings. It was also the highest grossing independent film of 2008."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireproof_(film)

Oh it was a flop alright.
If you have a right to criticize him, he has a right to do it. Kirk is a Christian apologist and has a right to defend his faith against others. He has a right to prove other religions are false. Concerned makes it a job around here to prove Christianity is a hoax. ARE you saying he does not have that right?
No, no Syrenity, you lost that one to Yoda, he cleaverly gotcha. You won't address his question about your pro-abort stance because you can't. He made his point and won. He drop kicked ya hon.
I tried to watch the Kirk C link but it would not come up. Anyone have another way in?
It's about standing on the Truth with all your heart and soul. See the difference between you and Kirk is.....He believes that the Word and that Christ is the Only way because scripture states so. You deny it. All roads can't lead to Heaven because Christ says they don't. You just don't believe the Word. Your faith can't be in Christ because you deny what He said.
I am not superior to anyone here. But I believe the Word is right and the Truth and anyone who does not believe it are wrong. Isn't that ok? Like I saidConcerned tries to show, to convince and make Christians look bad anyway he can. Like I said thats is his main job here. Why does he do this? Because he thinks he is right.
We all can't be right.
Your brand of relativism says that no truth is universally or objectively true or false. Christ couldn't for you be right because in your mind everyone makes it to heaven. You challenge the very existence of truth. Your views contaminate your entire worldview and what you call your brand of morality. So for you no religion is truer than another. There are no moral absolutes, no ethical right or wrong. For you abortion is not wrong. It's a choice that just is not wrong. So if there is no moral right or wrong.....and my morals and values are true for me but not for you it would be ok if I slept with your husband, or I stole from the office, or cheated on my income tax.
Now would you care if I slept with your husband?
If you correct me, you assume error exists. And if you assume error exists, you assume that truth exists. So there are absolutes. You denounce me as a Christian saying I am judgmental that I have no right to judge others. However you're judging me for judging others. Are you being intolerant and judgmental?
It is amazing that Christ did not pick one woman to be a disciple.
Are you implying that I think women are second class citizens carole? I don't know why you always try to beat around the bush.
It is sad that you think being a woman and mother and a helpmate for a husband are all negative things. Ever read Proverbs 31 about women, it is a beautiful passage. This is a portrait of a godly woman. Do you think this type of woman is passe in our society today? Do you laugh when you read it?
"Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land." Her husband takes a seat, she does not.
Here is where you probably find fault with this passage. Her priorities are determined by God's will, not her own. It is ovbious through scripture that women do not take a role in church leadership.
I am willing to see what ya got as far as scriptures go however. Show me biblically where it says we can preach and head up a church?
I believe that God does ordain roles for woman, but preaching is not one of them.
the thing that gets me is....that you think I hate woman because of my view. And that is not the case at all.
We have been blessed even more than men have and He has a high calling for us.
1 Timothy 2:9-15 states our role very clearly.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
We are NOT the lesser creature.

Yes. I ask Christ to enlarge my territory. Read the Prayer of Jabez. I read that little prayer every day.
I believe it will be granted in the WAY GOD WANTS TO DO IT AND IN HIS TIME. It might look different than I had prayed for......it might take longer or not be exactly what I wanted......but God answers prayer.
My son has been in two near fatal car accidents that were not his fault. My husband helped him get another car and I will never forget them bringing it home. It had no airbags in it. Lets just say the little woman of the house was not happy and I made my opinions known. If anyone needs airbags my son does. They saved his life in both accidents. I cried for a few days and pleaded with my husband to return it. I did not act very godly. I talked to my pastor and told him the whole story. He told me to go to my husband and apologize that I did not honor him as the head of the family. And after I did that he told me to give it to God in prayer that He would answer. I did what he counseled me to do. I apologized and prayed for three days. On the fifth day we were eating dinner and the phone rang. It was my son. He was sitting on the 101 and his car was burning up. My husband looked at me and just shook his head. He could not believe it.
IT WAS MY BURNING BUSH.
I did the right thing and I gave it to God. He took care of the problem and taught me a lesson. He also made my husband sit up and take notice. To this day my husband can not believe that a perfectly good car just burned up. He went right out and got another car....one with air bags.
My mother was dying and I asked God to take the pain away. He took her home, not exactly what I wanted. He answered my prayer.

reply from: Banned Member

I'm talking about all the crappy movies he's done, Fireproof being the most recent. Just because it did well with Christian audiences doesn't make it a good movie. When weighed against all other movies, it flopped. It got poor reviews from actual film critics because of crappy acting & crappy directing, plus a story line that shouldn't have ever made it past the Hallmark channel. But that is besides the point. If you like to watch crappy movies, that's your business, I couldn't give a rat's ass.
#1, He can't prove any religions are false. Just as no one can prove Christianity false. A religion is a belief system. They can't be proven false or true, generally they require blind faith.
#2, what he did was so disrespectful it's not even funny. Kirk Cameron isn't exactly low profile, everyone is familiar with his beliefs. Despite this he was welcomed to attend a sacred ritual, his was welcomed to ask questions & he was met with honesty & grace. But, he was secretly recording it the whole time. He then went on the radio & mocked & misrepresented what happened.
It's people like him that keep people hiding in the proverbial broom closet. I have many friends who feel that they can't be open about their beliefs because they are met with ridicule & harassment.
You will never understand what religious discrimination is like, & I don't expect you to try.
It worked for me. If you were waiting for a video to load, that's the problem. Its a podcast, audio only.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, that's true....... answering my questions straight up is "playing into my hands". So true!
But you did a great job of once again dodging, shifting, and attacking.

reply from: 4choice4all

Hey....Mall Cop made a hell of a lot of money and there was NOTHING great about that movie unless you are under the age of 12. So making money isn't necessarily the hallmark of a good movie. Actually, if we are talking prolife friendly movies...I thought Bella was good.

reply from: churchmouse

Bella was good and I loved Mall Cop. He was perfectly casted for that role.

reply from: Banned Member

Yeah, that's true....... answering my questions straight up is "playing into my hands". So true!
But you did a great job of once again dodging, shifting, and attacking.
There wasn't a serious question to answer. Like I said, any person with a brain knew what I was writing, I shouldn't have to spell everything out in layman's terms. But, for you less advanced people, I was merely pointing out that, in contradiction to what JP wrote about how people weren't blaming all of Islam for one soldiers death, people DO blame Islam for lots of things. I never said that pro-lifers are all responsible, but if that the dead dog you want to keep beating on, go right ahead.

reply from: yoda

Then that makes you one of those rare proaborts who hasn't said it yet.... congratulations!


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