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Personal Declarations

Who are we? What do we believe?

by: iCelebr8Life

I am new here and thought it would be fun to share about ourselves, what we believe, what we hope to achieve in regards to the pro-life issue. Feel free to go back and edit your post as your opinions change or new ideas come to mind. It would be nice for us to talk about ourselves on this thread and to leave opinions and criticisms for others on other threads so that people will feel free to be authentic here as possible. As we are human I recognize 100% consistancy with out beliefs and ideals is not likely, so let's cut ourselves some slack.

reply from: Faramir

I believe abortion is an injustice that should be stopped.
I am not at this time what you would call an "activist" beyond message board discussions.
I'm here to learn about the issue and hopefully one day put what I learn to practical use.
But the more I'm exposed to what's going on regarding abortion, the more I'm convinced the battle is for the indivdual hearts and minds.
As a Catholic, I believe in the sacredness of life from conception until natural death, but I also believe a good case agains abortion could be made without resorting to the authority of a religion.

reply from: iCelebr8Life

I am a Christian woman, unmarried and childless. I was adopted as an infant and then again into the kingdom of God.
I am pro-life. Zygote, embryo, fetus, post born, all human life.
In vitro fertilizations: Embryos get discarded, used for research, or frozen indefinitely. Embryos are human lives. So sad.
War: kills the unborn as well as men, women and children.
Death penalty: many innocent people have been executed. Even the guilty ones I wold rather have locked up for life and hope they find salvation.
I am full of compassion. I pray a lot. I take the bus a lot and get to talk to many new people everywhere I go. People are often confiding things in me and asking me for advice. I avoid telling people what to do while gladly share my thoughts, experiences, opinions as well as information.
That nearly 40,000 children died today from hunger pains my heart as do all the human life that was lost to abortion, war, and other unnecessary horrors. It's all too much so I leave it all in God's hands and do my best in my small way to make the world a better place for all of us.
I am a vegetarian. It was not an act of nobility, my body cannot tolerate animal products.
I value civility, kindness, compassion and love, especially under the worst of circumstances for that is when they are needed the most.
God Bless

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

The first 25 years of my life was aimless; no strong convictions, no goals, no purpose. I was a very agreeable person because I was a mush-burger. I trusted my teachers and what society was doing. I had few opinions; which made me not offensive. I was also extremely shy and never spoke.
The next 25 years I began to go through dramatic change and grow. I learned people were selfish and that they were murdering children for their own convenience. I learned selfish people did things in their own interest, sacrificing and murdering others was not their concern.
I grew to appreciate life beyond bounds. I learned that God intended to use us to build a utopian society in which life could flourish peacefully and happily. A society that would expand forever across the Universe under our rule, guidance, management. I grew a "set" and began telling people just how it is. They are covenant-breakers, they are bound by nothing, they are lawless. They'll kill their own child for a roll in the hay. They are worse than Esau who put a bowl of soup first.
I'm now an AARP citizen concerned with what is best for the younger generations coming up below me. I work tirelessly for their benefit. To try to set them on the right course, to sound the alarm that abortion, sodomy and Islam are sure death and detrimental not only to the victims, but to the perpetrators.
I don't care one iota about being politically correct. I'm here to do the right thing. Obama may stand there saying, "Let's all be reasonable men who understand each other" as the abortionist jams the scissors into the back of the head of a baby or injects saline solution to burn and poison a baby. I ain't buying into calm soothing words as the abortionist kills. Today's politicians are liars and deceivers; deliberately hiding true agendas. (What's with Nancy Pelosi calling the CIA liars and deceivers? I believe Newt Gingerich is correct, she should resign for accusing others when she has been disclosed to be the liar. The CIA said she was fully informed about waterboarding. Nancy accuses them of having fudged documents. Is this the type of behavior our leaders, such as the Speaker, should exhibit?)

reply from: 4choice4all

I'm married...mother of 3...stay at home mom that does the room parent thing, volunteers in the school library, goes on the field trips..helps at the school picnics. I'm active in local politics...I campaign for local candidates(go door to door, make phone calls, work the polls(not the poles,lol)...I'm the secretary of my local democrat club. I proudly worked 20+ volunteer hours a week on Obama's campaign. He's not liberal enough for me...but I find him to be a true leader and visionary. I've been a member and volunteer for NARAL for years and a clinic escort for 3 years. I consider myself a feminist....I'm a Lucy Stoner(kept my maiden name)...but my dh and I have very traditional marital roles. I haven't worked in 12 years....stayed home to raise our babies and foster kiddos. Married my hs sweetheart.
I'm a seeker I'm very spiritual and came to religion as an adult and of my own free will. I'm a typical bleeding heart liberal. That title sums me up nearly to a t. I'm anti-death penalty, anti-war (not a complete pacifist but I'm working on it), vegetarian(mainly for health reasons), pro gay rights....you know the rest...bleeder,lol.
I've always been prochoice. I've never waivered. I'm strong enough in my convictions to openly discuss abortion rights issues and I've done so on a variety of internet boards over the years...as well as amongst friends and of course, the clinic.

reply from: JasonFontaine

I am a spammer of my ideas. I think they're good ones. I believe in life. How many good liberals are destroyed for the sake of choice?
I like "bleeding heart" liberals - I like ultra-rich conservatives. We all have our places in this world. I am against war. I am against poverty. I do NOT believe in global warming, but we ALL should be environmentalists. I spend my days in a control room monitoring Video Conferences.
I too exercise my choice. And, I believe the egg is not dead. It's a simple gesture. Nothing more. I had a strange belief that Pro-Lifers would embrace this silly picture and I'd be a millionaire with a ranch in Dallas - that's what rich people do - isn't it? But, all my messages are for the hopeful betterment of mankind (or at least, in my thoughts they are!)
I do not wish to take anyone's choice away - but I would gladly share a glass of wine and a block of cheese over a friendly discussion of how horrible the industry is - and how unjustifiable it has become to get an abortion as a matter of convenience.
When all is said and done - many of us truly believe in life. It all comes down to a decision. I want to simply promote the decision of life. It's a beautiful thing - in my humble opinion...second to none!

reply from: lukesmom

I have been prolife before there was such a thing. I am the mother of 5, my youngest is in God's arms and my heart. All my children and my dh were diagnosed with a cardiac abnormality 2 yrs ago and I am becoming more involved in advocating provention of Sudden Cardiac Death through adequate testing. I also have one child who has special needs and have worked extensively to educate teachers and parents about ADHD and processing disorders. I was a stay at home mom until my kids where in school and then increased my hours as a RN. 30 yrs ago my mom started and our family voluteers and runs a charitable orginization that provides anything and everything needed to raise a child from birth to adulthood. We provide clothes, furnature, haircuts, school supplies, christmas presents, band instruments, etc through donations only. No tax money is used. I do have to say, I am not as involved as I used to be due to being very busy raising my kids, working and volunteering in our schools and church.
I believe no one has the right to take another's life without their consent no matter what age or stage of developement. I also believe that everyone has the right to live the life they were given at conception until natural death. Since my son's diagnosis of Anencephaly 6 yrs ago, I have worked with other moms facing poor or prenatal diagnoses to ensure they are aware of all their choices and resourses and support to help them carry to term if they chose. Because of the work many of us have done online mostly, several books are now available to moms facing poor/fatal prenatal diagnosis and there are now hospices available for families facing this and medical professionals are becoming more educated which leads to less discrimination of women who ctt. I believe educating and teaching are the tools to achieve acceptance.

reply from: 4given

I Sue!!! I Sue's Mom! I would love to do the same. I have some contacts also interested- many with children of their own or placements with needs beyond what they could meet. Any information would/could potentially benefit many in our community. I would be blessed to have the information again- privately or otherwise. Your mother is as inspiring as you are!

reply from: Shenanigans

Life begins at conception. That is not a belief. That is science.
The child in the womb is alive and worthy of protection. No one should have the right to destory the life of another.
Women have been sucked into beleiving that the only way the can succeed in this world is to be as a man, barren and unable to carry life. A child has been taught to the woman as an inconveinance.
Women have been conned big time.
I'm Catholic, but I don't think religion is an excuse for being a moron or ignorant. Galilao (sp) once said "I do not beleive the same God who endowed us with sense and reason intended us to forgo their use".
I don't think religion/God should be anywhere near an abortion debate, unless its with a "christain" who is pro-abortion.
I beleive the use of semantics has lead people into a false sense of security about what they're supporting. "Pro-choice" sounds so safe, fluffy and liberal, when its actually referring to the support of child killing. You say you're pro-choice, we all know what the hell you mean, so lets stop being obtuse about it, if you say you are pro-choice you are saying you are "pro-choice to kill unborn children".
The unborn is a child as a child is anyone under the age of 12, including those during gestation. The unborn is not a baby, a baby is a stage of development which begins after the child leaves the womb.
Abortion is not murder, as murder is illegal. However, abortion is homicide.
I hate the death penalty as much as I hate abortion.
I hate euthanasia even more then I hate abortion - when you abort a foetus you are killing a human who doesn't know anyone, who has no friends or family who are aware. When you kill grandma you are killing someone who you claim as family, as a friend, to kill someone you claim to love is morally repugnant!
I beleive in evolution. I think its beautiful and a stunning example of God's power. I view God not as some ogre but as a scientist, doctor, computer programmer, architect, plumber, artist, et cetera.
I beleive God is pro-choice, but He is pro-the right choice, and killing a child is not the right choice.
To pro-choice "christians" Jesus Christ did not suffer and die on a cross so you could slaughter a child to live as you please.
I think women need help, real help, offering a length of suction tubing as their solution is not pro-woman. We as a society must offer real help, finanical, education, career, REAL help. We must make adoption a more appealing option. It is financally illogical to have couples spending hundreds of thousands on concieving and carryign children to term when millions are being flushed down the toilet at the local abortion clinic.
I think global warming is a natural process, for goodness sake the world used to be apile of moltent rock and we're recovering from an ice age. If polar bears die out, well, that just proves Darwin's theory that its not the strongest that survive, but those most adaptive to change.
I am hugely opposed to nuclear weaponary and power and think the world should pump more into researching cleaner fuels.
I think as a collective, humans poccess a mob mentality that just oozes stupidity.
I grew up on a farm. Vegetarians do not impress me. Those freaks at PETA are ignorant and arrogant. Its very easy for people to judge or support something when they live in a warm house with clothes and food at their beckon call. When you'r etrying to scratch a living out in the middle of Africa, you aren't thinking about the humanity of the goat you're milking.
I think the West is very arrogant and needs to be humbled.
When the zombies attack, all bets are off, I will happily kiss goodbye to my Pro-Life beleifs if I am surrounded by screaming idiots who are attracting the undead to our locale.

reply from: Faramir

But do you have any opinions, shenanigans?

reply from: Shenanigans

Opinions are like arseholes.
Everyone has one and they all stink.
It was pretty long, though. Hehe.

reply from: Yuuki

Your response to that image (which I have seen before) should not be "We should kill all of those african children before they're born so they don't starve to death!"
Your response SHOULD be "We should find a way to feed these people so they don't starve to death!"
Killing people so they don't die is oxymoronic.
Also, "Friends said Mr Carter was a man of tumultuous emotions which brought passion to his work but also drove him to extremes of elation and depression." That's pretty common for artists. We tend to have mental instabilities.

reply from: faithman

Opinions are like arseholes.
Everyone has one and they all stink.
It was pretty long, though. Hehe.
Maybe one day we will get all them stinky butts pointed in the right direction, and put all that bean wind to good use blowing abortion off the social land scape.

reply from: 4choice4all

Family planning would probably go a long way towards ending worldwide poverty and hunger.

reply from: yoda

Why not just kill half the world's born people instead?

reply from: lukesmom

There ya go! I bet the "choicers" will line up to volunteer for this option as are the only ones trying to solve the worlds poverty problems. Oh wait, they would rather SOMEONE ELSE pay the price of their lives.

reply from: yoda

There's an idea, let's just ask all the proaborts to commit suicide, and that will take care of the overpopulation problem, right?

reply from: carolemarie

I am a prolife Christian,
against death penelty,
against war, but understand we have the right to protect ourselves
care about the poor, about injustice
I believe human trafficking is the greatest human rights violation of our time.

reply from: 4choice4all

Carolemarie....have you read A Crime So Monstrous by E.Benjamin Skinner. I read an amazing article on human trafficking and an interview with him and I put this book on my wishlist. I'm with you on the human trafficking.

reply from: carolemarie

havent but now I will! Thanks for the information!

reply from: Shenanigans

No.
It doesn't define being a woman.
Its what women can do (women who are infertile are no less women). The point is women shouldn't shy away from what their bodies can do naturally, we shouldn't shun the fact we can carry life, we shouldn't be conned into thinking that its just a "normal body function". Taking a crap is a bodily function. But that crap isn't a human being!
What I'm saying isn't that pregnancy defines a woman, I'm saying women shouldn't associate the creation of life within them as something to be seen as a negative.
Fertile women carry life. That's a human life growing within them. Your pancreas is not a human life.
Thank you for proving my point.
A woman doesn't have to have her uterus suctioned of human life to succeed in this world.

reply from: Shenanigans

So you're pro-choice to kill the child instead of addressing the situation that led to that child being in that situation.
For goodness sake, Spinny, dont' you see something wrong with that? You advocate the free range killing of the unborn instead of assisting on financial support, irrigation and farming improvements, pushing for education, pushing for the end to civil wars in those holes.
But then, killing a child is a lot easier then changing the circumstances that "justify" killing to you.

reply from: Shenanigans

You are aware that in such countries all these people have is their children? They need to have a heap of children, becuase of the high infant mortality rate, they need kids to go to work and bring money back into the house, they need heaps of children so those children in their adult hood will support their parents in their old age.
The state doesn't provide them elder care. It doesn't provide domestic assistance. They're lucky if the UN gets off its arse and turfs then some rice packets.
Killing children, or forcing the arrogant western ideal of 1.4 children on a society that is not structured for so few is not going to help.

reply from: 4choice4all

You do realize that major organizations that work at reducing poverty and infant/maternal mortality rates throughout the world disagree completely with your interpretation?

reply from: 4choice4all

slacker....I expect to see the heads of warlords on spikes in front of your house when the weather turns!

reply from: Yuuki

Hm, I forgot to actually introduce myself.
I am female, 24, and liberally Christian/worldly. I don't call myself devout, and christianity is just the "language" I use to speak to the God I believe is really the entire universe. I've had my beliefs described as animist and pagan, and that doesn't bother me. My feelings on abortion are not related to my religion, and I have in fact been all kinds of religions from Deist to Buddhist. I'm casually spiritual, to say the least.
I am pro-life. I feel elective abortion is wrong and should be illegal. My only exception is the mother's health, primarily her life. I do not have specific exceptions for rape or young maternal age, because the excuses underneath both of those are encompassed by the mother's health clause.
I am an aspiring teacher working as a teaching assistant. I adore my students, who are all special needs kids aging from 3 to 6 years old. Not a single one of them deserves to be dead due to "imperfections".
I can't wait for motherhood in a stable marriage. Pregnancy excites me! I can't wait to see my baby's eyes and fingers.
I am very liberal in almost all other ways. I am pro-gay-rights for example, including gay marriage. I was pro-choice for several years, but eventually realised I had way to many "restrictions" to call myself pro-choice. I believe all religions have merit, and many of them are simply different ways humans have expressed their experiences with The Almighty. It has spoken to us in many ways I feel.
I voted for Obama based on my many other liberal beliefs. Abortion is not my primary concern, in other words.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

Well I am young and happily Married. Marriage to me meaning finding someone you trust with out thinking about it. Love more then yourself and give yourself to entirely. Someone you connect to in a way that you dident think was possible.
I was baptised christian and confirmed because I was told that if I dident say yes to the priest in front of the church I would have to pay for confirmation classes myself next time. Throught my life I have found the path that feels right inside and I support anyone who finds that in any "religion" there is for them.
I believe that everyone has a choice, even a choice to make the wrong decision. Some of the most important lessons I have learned have been through tough situations.
I am pro choice, I support gay rights, I love my country, I support an equal start for all our young ones I think that education is the only way to end discrimination.
I am working on a psychology degree. I love helping people always have it makes me feel so good. You see people treating each other so bad and it spreads. I love to smile and brighten peoples day just a little and it cascades just as quicly as the hate does.
I think humanity as a whole has outsteped the bounds of nature and is overpopulating the planet. No other species on the planet is left unchecked to do as they please as we do. I hope that our technology moves fast enough to save our future generations but as it gets more and more crowded it becomes a breeding ground for dieases and war etc
I am not affraid to die. I try to do something everyday that makes me happy because I know that as hard as my brain trys to diswaid me that, I have almost no controll over my life and that at any moment it could all end. It sounds morbid I know but once you understand existance on broader terms its just like breathing.

reply from: Yuuki

An equal start... except for the ones dead from abortion.

reply from: lukesmom

I Sue!!! I Sue's Mom! I would love to do the same. I have some contacts also interested- many with children of their own or placements with needs beyond what they could meet. Any information would/could potentially benefit many in our community. I would be blessed to have the information again- privately or otherwise. Your mother is as inspiring as you are!
Thanks 4given! Here's how she started and it grew.
Mom became involved in our local and state Right To Life but politics just didn't feel right to her. She LOVES garage saleing so that's what she did. She bought cheap used infant clothes and we all would make boxes of layettes in our family room. It was great fun! Everything she bought, she washed and sewed, if it was needed, and ironed. We put in 7 newborn onesies, sleepers, a nice outfit, a couple swaddling blankets, one big blanket and if we had it baby soap, washcloth and towel and a other little odds and ends for a baby. We made up boy and girl layettes and some that could be either. We delivered them to local hospitals and they gave them out to any mom who needed them. Pretty soon friends and nieghbors were dropping off baby stuff. We got so much stuff it took over the family room! When my youngest sister left for college the 3 upstairs bedrooms where taken over and women started traveling to the farm to pick out the cloths they needed. The organisation was named "Mary's Room" after my sister and the Virgen Mary. Soon there were cribs and all sorts of baby furniture in the basement too! By this time only my brother lived at home and all 5 of us girls were garage saleing too and as fast as it came in, it went out again. A dentist in town offered the basement of his business and everything moved there. It was easier for moms to get to. Finally a local newpaper offered to finance the whole works and moved it into the basement of an historic hotel. Finally mom could have what she wanted and needed. Everything is donated and people who use the cloths are asked to return them when done so someone else can use them. Everything is washed and fixed to be in very good shape. Several elderly volunteers keep everything running smoothly. Mom does the shopping and most everything is new now as huge monetary donations come in as a result of mom's speaking in front of all kinds of groups and grant money. Not one cent comes from government sources. One of my sisters was hired by the newpaper as head of their "charitable arm" to run what is now called "Clothes for Kids". She is the only person paid in this and has opened other "stores" in other areas. Social services sends most of the families that use Clothes for Kids. A few years ago my brother married a lovely Mexican woman who interpets when needed. Many of us still volunteer when we get the chance and my mom is handing over her part of the work. We have really had to pull her away! She is now looking and praying for a larger building that will house several charities, including Clothes for Kids, that all work together. It has taken 30 years and the hard work and dedication of one woman to help thousands and it is still going strong and unfortunantly is more needed than ever. All of this is due to one little prolife Catholic farm mom who feels she is no big deal.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"An equal start... except for the ones dead from abortion."
If every cell that was ever fertilized survived to its full potential the world would be over run bye insects... or bunnies if thats cuter to imagine. Not to mention that would probably put a stop in evolution and we wouldent be here today to have this conversation...
As much as we want the world to be perfect the way we see it in our minds it cannot. I mean when i see a poor little frog drowning in a pool i save him but i cant be at every pool everywhere in the entire world and spending time thinking about it would drive any sane individual mad.
Not to mention with so many bunnies on the planet who would take care of them... They would end up in adoption agencies which you cannot imagine how those are unless you have been through it yourself. Some of those bunnies might wonder where all those people who fought so hard for them to exist went to after they where born and needed a home and love. And those bunnies might relize when they got old enough to have little bunnies of there own that there is a reason life is the way it is. Even though it might be cruel its the way of nature for some things to live and some things to die.

reply from: lukesmom

This one is certifiable and has no understanding of natural death and "bunnies" dying due to an abortionist ripping them apart. OSB, you really should google the psychs in your area. Sheesh.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"This one is certifiable and has no understanding of natural death and "bunnies" dying due to an abortionist ripping them apart. OSB, you really should google the psychs in your area. Sheesh."
Naw I am just trying to present my ideas in a way that might reach some of you. You see people who are hard pressed to change there ways of thinking or at least be open to suggestions find it easier to do so when presented with situations that are not directly related.
Just testin the water but it becomes more and more evident that this forum isent for discussing opinions but more of a shooting gallery. Where pro lifers shoot out any and every idea that does not fit there mind set with out a secound though.
Front page of the we site says "The best abortion-related forum on the internet. It's where your voice can be heard and where you can interact with people from all over the world on both sides of the issue. Dont miss out"
It should be edited here " people from all over the world" who are singleminded and only use this web site to further prove to themselves that they are correct. Jump no the band wagon or get pwned.

reply from: lukesmom

Try talking about unborn humans instead of "bunnies" if you want to be taken seriously. BTW, this is a PROLIFE forum and you, as a proabort, are here more or less to help prolifers sharpen their arguments per the owner of this forum. Wonder how a prolifer would be welcomed on your proabort forums. Yeah, we know, we'd be attacked.

reply from: lukesmom

Awww shoot paw, naw hes tawkin so as we can understan 'im. Watcha naw, weuns need tah change our thinkin an turn probort sos we can kill those there bunny varmits in our garden patch!

reply from: Faramir

How come pro-lifers aren't welcomed on this forum?
lol

reply from: Faramir

LOL to that.
Good that nobody is paying to be here or it would be false advertising.

reply from: lukesmom

How come pro-lifers aren't welcomed on this forum?
lol
Wasn't aware they weren't welcome. I do know there are some who say they are prolife but make more proabort statements than some of the professed proaborts and then there are some prolife posters who are just plain annoying and have worn out the welcome they were given.

reply from: lukesmom

LOL to that.
Good that nobody is paying to be here or it would be false advertising.
You truely are the whinniest person I have ever met. If you hate it here so much why do you continuely keep coming back? No one is forcing you to be here and no one really wants to hear your continual b##ching about this forum so why don't you do yourself a favor and leave this place that aggrivates you so much. Or maybe you LIKE whinning continuely.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"Proabort"
You like calling it that dont you It further justifies your position.
"Proabort forums"
LoL never heard of any but hey Ill go look for some and get back to you. But if you get to change the name of mine then I get to change the name of yours how about, ProOrphan or maby ProWots (Ward of the state)... Ill have to work on something a bit more catchy.

reply from: Faramir

hmmm...i wonder who she thinks is annoying...

reply from: lukesmom

Let's see if I can put it a in a way you can understand Jethro. If you are for something it is considered "pro". So therefore if you are for abortion you are proabortion. Slang is proabort. Understand? I am for life therefore I am a concidered prolife. Got it. Yes, I am for orphens and old people and young people and single people and unborn people to live the life they were given at conception until a natural death. Is that too complex for you or should I put it into your "bunny" words?

reply from: OutsidetheBox

lol anyone who doesent see eye to eye with her at all times?

reply from: Faramir

We've got a raft of "my way or the highway" types here.

reply from: lukesmom

We've got a raft of "my way or the highway" types here.
Again, You truely are the whinniest person I have ever met. If you hate it here so much why do you continuely keep coming back? No one is forcing you to be here and no one really wants to hear your continual b##ching about this forum so why don't you do yourself a favor and leave this place that aggrivates you so much. Or maybe you LIKE whinning continuely.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

All I am saying is you cannot make a decision about something without consitering its consequences... ProLife means no choice for women. ProLife means more over population. ProLife means more orphans and children who are subected to those things that a child should never have to go through when they are born and put up for adoption...
Dealing in Absolute is not only ignorant but illogical.
Freedom and Choice is something symbolic for America your efforts are fruitless. People like me will always exist to keep people like you from crowning a king again....

reply from: lukesmom

Nope, pretty much the "Father Knows Best" guy who calls himself Faramir.

reply from: Faramir

LOL to that.
Good that nobody is paying to be here or it would be false advertising.
You truely are the whinniest person I have ever met. If you hate it here so much why do you continuely keep coming back? No one is forcing you to be here and no one really wants to hear your continual b##ching about this forum so why don't you do yourself a favor and leave this place that aggrivates you so much. Or maybe you LIKE whinning continuely.
I LOVE it here!

reply from: carolemarie

prolife doesn't mean that women don't have choices. There is adoption, that is a choice and there is birth control which is a choice.
the world isn't over populated...do you realize the entire world population can fit into Texas?
Most prolifers allow for abortion for life of the mother.
most adopted people are glad to be alive, so your point that being adopted is horrible is just strange. My son is adopted and he is totally awesome!

reply from: OutsidetheBox

ask him when he gets older about his time in the orphanage... if he was one of the lucky ones to get adopted when he was a baby i am happy for him and you

reply from: lukesmom

Ahhhh, adopted children are not orphens. So you are saying death is preferrable to adoption? I'll have to ask all my adopted family members if they would have rather been dead. I'll let you know what they say after I manage to get ahold of them. Might take me awhile though as they are all pretty busy with their lives, you know spouses, kids, jobs, the usual.
Believe me, I know all about consequences and the "consequences" for 4000 daily is death at an abortionist and their mothers hands. Every single woman has a choice, a choice not to have sex and not to become pregnant in the first place. There is no choice for the unborn human being being killed. I am all about choice and life, you are all about death.

reply from: Faramir

Nope, pretty much the "Father Knows Best" guy who calls himself Faramir.
See?
Now you know why I like it here.
I get all kinds of attention from beautiful women.

reply from: 4choice4all

Image if everyone left and just the insult hurlers were left......chirp, chirp....I'm prolife, me too, me too.....chirp chirp......
There's a reason the opened the board up to people of differing opinons....it keeps things lively......
Not all prochoicers are proabortion. Many prochoice people hate that so many seek abortions and find them necessary....but they also don't think the government should be interfering.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"Every single woman has a choice, a choice not to have sex and not to become pregnant in the first place. There is no choice for the unborn human being being killed. I am all about choice and life, you are all about death."
Ha sex and babies are a completly diffrent subject now adays... we have contraceptives so women and men can have sex with out risk of impregnation. Most of the time when two people "get together" they dont want a kid. Wanting sex because of how it makes us feel is evolutions way of keeping our species alive. You infer sex is somehow wrong unless you can commit to carrying a baby to term its not. Most of pregnancys are unwanted. Its the choice of the women to decide if she wants to let it grow or terminate it... And I am sorry untill the fetus brain is large enough for it to relize it exists it is ok for it to be terminated. I disagree with abortions after a certain about of time but within the first few weeks the creation in here body is not a living person...
All cells divide and grow that doesent mean giving blood is killing creatures little life creatures....

reply from: 4choice4all

oh oh....I get to be Kitten!

reply from: Faramir

What does "choice" mean?
Why do you suppose you need a word like that?
If I want the freedom to own a firearm, I don't say I want the freedom of "choice."
That would mean I would need freedom to select more than one option.
Do I need a special right to NOT own a firearm?
So if I'm going to compaign about rights to own firearms, I'm not going to clamour for "the right to choose," since I already have the right to NOT own one. I simply want the "the right to own firearms" and once I have that right I can own or not own as I see fit.
Why does a woman need the right "to choose"?
To choose to remain pregnant? Doe she need a special right for that? Has anyone (in the US at least) suggested it be denied? Is anyone mounting an assualt against a woman's right to gestate?
What would be more honest and more accurate would be to say "the right to abort."
You are "pro--right-to-abort" or "pro-abortion rights."
Do you think I'm right that it's more fair and accurate than "pro-choice"?

reply from: lukesmom

Post from the forum owner:
"Although I find it hard to imagine that I am having to address this issue again, here goes. Try to stay with me.
The pro-life position is one founded in a moral principle and, as we've seen demonstrated here on many occasions, people who support legal abortion are immune to arguments based on morality. Having recognized that many years ago, I adopted two philosophies under which I still operate. The first one is that we are soldiers in a war that people like you are waging against the unborn. The second is that the goal of war is not to convert the enemy but to stop them.
For these reasons, I did not create this forum to win anyone over but as a vehicle for pro-lifers to communicate with each other, share ideas, and stay informed. I trust that explanation will help you understand why we don't have pro-aborts as moderators.
With that established, you need to be aware that you are allowed on this forum only to serve as foils for our amusement and exercise to keep our skills sharp. If that arrangement is satisfactory, stay. If not, I'll repeat what I have said to others before. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. "
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/...erthread=y&STARTPAGE=3

reply from: Shenanigans

...by advocating the freedom to kill them before birth.
-_-

reply from: Shenanigans

There's kinda big difference between nature taking its course and something dying naturally, or an animal with no real concept of morality killing something else for food, and a human woman killing her own unborn child so she can continue with her education/career/fit into a bikini.

reply from: Shenanigans

Bullocks I say!
Pro-Life doesn't mean "no choice" for women, it means "people can't choose to K I L L a human life.
Choice is such an all encompassing word, you make it sound like we want to have all people wearing tracks and marching in unison to some job where they don't get paid and are refused the right to vote or do anything without the expressed permission of the higher ups.
As for over population, and orphans, do some reasearch. The world isn't over populated, its population density that's the problem. And wher are all these orphans going to come from? What happens to their mums and dads? Are they all being herded into these anti-choice camps that we'll open to house all the dissidents?
Yes.
Because supporting the right to life of a member of the human family is illogical. How retarded of us.

reply from: lukesmom

First off, lets call a spade, a spade and get rid of the pc crap, ie: "terminate". Nice little nonoffensive word that actually means abortion, killing a developing human being. That term irks the crap out of me for many reasons. Secondly, contraceptives do not prevent pregnancy 100% of the time, even says so on the boxes if you take time to check but most educated people already know that. The fact is, one of the risks of sex is pregnancy. All educated people also know this. If you really, really don't want to become pregnant, you don't have to have sex. The only exception is in the case of rape but that is another subject. So, both parties want to have sex and both parties know that with sex comes the possibility of pregnancy so a contraceptive is used but of course both parties know there is still a slim possiblilty the contraceptive can fail but still, both parties agree to the risk anyway and create a separate human being with it's own DNA. If this new developing human being is wanted it is commonly called a baby by it's parents and if it is not wanted it is commonly called a blob and killed by an abortionist. Luck of the draw that 4000 unborn human being lose daily because their parents had a "choice" about sex. Yup, 4000 human beings die daily for their parents (hopefully) 10 minutes of pleasure. Gotta love you proaborts idea of pleasure and who gets to pay for your pleasure in the end.

reply from: Faramir

If no pro-aborts show up here, they invent them.
I was a "pro-abort" for months because of "suspicions." I've been promoted recently to "PP prolife" however.
The day I call you a "baby killer," I get my wings and will be a "real pro-lifer."

reply from: Faramir

You're absolutely right!

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"Because supporting the right to life of a member of the human family is illogical. How retarded of us."
Then I guess for me it boils down to time... a lump of cells are not "life" untill they first become aware of there exsistance which can only be measured through the development of the brain...
As I said before I do not believe in Abortion after a certain amount of time that being when the brain becomes "officialy aware". Which takes at least a month, before then I do not view it as life and therefore it is just the same as cutting a peice of skin off your arm...
With reguards to the soul, which someone is sure to mention, because of my beliefs about the "soul" bodys are only husks that the "souls" uses and therefore the body is like an old pair of sox which can be discarded and bought anew.

reply from: lukesmom

For heaven's sake. I was called the same as were many prolifers here by the same person. Don't see anyone but you still whinning about it. Good grief, get over yourself already!

reply from: 4choice4all

A cardigan wearing father knows best type with wings.....sounds awesome! I want to see it....let a "baby killer" fly...I'll listen for the bell.
Sue....10 minutes of pleasure? That's it? Tell your dh he has to bring his A game.

reply from: BossMomma

I'm a pro-life formerly pro-choice single mother of 3 living one deceased. I believe that humanity deserves respect in all it's stages. I'm a hard working correctional officer and dedicated medical student. I believe in putting my time and money where my mouth is in promoting the Pro-life cause, I do free babysitting for teen mothers, provide transportation to human resourse appointments and pre-natal appointments. I also donate and advertise for the local CPC.

reply from: Faramir

For heaven's sake. I was called the same as were many prolifers here by the same person. Don't see anyone but you still whinning about it. Good grief, get over yourself already!
Not whining--just sharing some of my internet adventures.
Since I'm not done being annoying for this evening, would you like me to explain what is illogical about the first half of your signature line?

reply from: lukesmom

Guess my Anencephalic son was not alive then. Funny how he was considered a living person by the government and was listed on our taxes as a dependant. When exactly is the brain "officially aware"? I know a lot of adults who don't fit that criteria but, yet, they are living.

reply from: Shenanigans

You know, that's kinda funny.
That's like saying one of the risks of getting in a car is driving.
The whole point of sex is pregnancy, whether people accept that or not.
If sex was painful, or a chore, would we even have this problem?

reply from: lukesmom

Hey, 4 kids, work, kids activities, volunteer stuff, he gets up at 3 AM, 10 minutes is GOOD!

reply from: lukesmom

Not if it was the man who was having pain or feeling it was a chore! LOL!

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"When exactly is the brain "officially aware"? I know a lot of adults who don't fit that criteria but, yet, they are living."
Ya ok then Keep on Keepin on... Ill use science you use-
"Guess my Anencephalic son was not alive then. Funny how he was considered a living person by the government and was listed on our taxes as a dependant."
-guilt trip?
Ill post some kind of end all for how I view Abortion you post.... (offtopic) (Example of and Equal retort) Omg ADD Disney Channel Is So kewl!!

reply from: Faramir

No.
I'll wait for a better time, then.

I wouldn't want to spoil the lovely rapport.

reply from: Shenanigans

But the new born has no concept of self-awareness. The late term foetus has no concept of self-awareness. How can you draw a distinction? What week does the blob turn into a human worthy of protection?
It isn't the same as cutting skin off your arm.
The thing is cell specalisation.
Skin will always be skin., It won't grow, it won't develop, it won't get an education or have friends or get a job. If I saw a skin walking down the street with a hat and a brief case, I'd be impressed but it's not the same as the unborn.
I won't bring my personal beleifs into the aboriton debate as I think religion and God should stay the hell out of this.
However, I will say this just as a matter of point and not a matter of me stabbing at others.
I beleive the soul exists at the moment of conception. If the conceptus only lasts a day then so be it, its just its time to leave this life, the child who dies of SIDs is no less owning of a soul because of its age.
We have only one physical life and only one soul. When we die our soul departs the body and doesn't claim another. It goes on to the afterlife.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I"m not, but I don't see how arguing thigns we can't prove has any place in this debate.
Science and medicine and reality is what will win this debate, not fluffy feelings or rants about souls.

reply from: Shenanigans

One time I was on the net, and I had three power crystals of doom, two stones of widsom and the staff of greatness and I went into the necromancer's tomb and had to fight off an army of skeletons, so I got out my spell book and cast a blood lust confusion spell and the skeletons attacked each other. Then I rushed into the cavern and the necormancer stole my cloke of passage to other realms and he used it to enter the realm of the dead and that's when he saw Elvis and stole his magical hamburger of death which was what he choked on. Then I ran away and jumped on my beast of Magathar and retreated to my castle where my army collected itself and my allies came to my assistance.
It was so cool!

reply from: OutsidetheBox

Thank you Shenanigans and I respect your opinion about this situation and because people do and will always diagree on what those little cells in a women mean to them there will always be a need to have a choice about the matter.
That is all I am trying to say... Everyone belives something diffrent and you cant just shove a no abort law down there craws... and expect positive outcomes.

reply from: lukesmom

So far you have posted opinion. I have yet to see anything scientific. "Guilt trip"? No, fact. You said, "Then I guess for me it boils down to time... a lump of cells are not "life" untill they first become aware of there exsistance which can only be measured through the development of the brain... "
My son was Anencephalic and was born alive as are many children like him so that discredits your above statement. Now if I had mentioned bunnies, you may have understood. Sorry.

reply from: Shenanigans

And that's why I think science should be the last port of call. Science tells us what those cells are and what they will do.
The choice community always goes on about logic and reasonsing, why then, isn't the science that says its life win?
But if there weren't pro-choicers, what the hell would I do when I get online? There's only so much time you can spend on Facebook!

reply from: OutsidetheBox

The bunnies where my gift to you, just squeeze them untill all your missguided conceptions about a world where every women has to carry to term are fluffly fuzzly gone

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"The choice community always goes on about logic and reasonsing, why then, isn't the science that says its life win?"
I dont understand what you mean there at the end can you refrase please.

reply from: Shenanigans

The pro-choice community goes on about how lifers use no reason in our debates. That we use incorrect words liek "baby" and "murder". It oftentimes faults the Lifers for their lack of education. It demands science and research for every statement we make.
Science says human life begins at conception. The child in the womb is human.
WHy aren't the pro-choicers accepting of the science that says the child in the womb is human?

reply from: Shenanigans

In NZL, every year we have something called the "easter bunny hunt".
The person who kills the most bunnies wins a Ute and a heap of grog.

reply from: Faramir

One time I was on the net, and I had three power crystals of doom, two stones of widsom and the staff of greatness and I went into the necromancer's tomb and had to fight off an army of skeletons, so I got out my spell book and cast a blood lust confusion spell and the skeletons attacked each other. Then I rushed into the cavern and the necormancer stole my cloke of passage to other realms and he used it to enter the realm of the dead and that's when he saw Elvis and stole his magical hamburger of death which was what he choked on. Then I ran away and jumped on my beast of Magathar and retreated to my castle where my army collected itself and my allies came to my assistance.
It was so cool!
I'm not much of a gamer, but I've had lots of message board experience--tons more than newbs like you.
I'll have you know I've been called the following:
misogynist
a**hole
c*ntface
d*ck
d*ckhead
turd
stupid
fundie
moron
woman hater
pro-abort
anti-choicer
religious nut
right-wing fanatic
sh*thead
human debris
I've had people say they want to kick me, shoot me, beat me, and on more than one occasion they've expressed hope I would be consumed in a deadly fire.
When I have more time, I'll tell you about some of the things said by people who don't like me.

reply from: iCelebr8Life

I really appreciated and enjoyed reading people's personal declarations. I wish there might have been more on this thread.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

I cant speak for everyone prochoice but my understanding is that yes the cells in the womb are human its just that they arenot what we consiter to be sentient and there for cannot be consittered a life yet.
Its not that they are unable to become a living breathing creature its just that there is a line a point of no return. A point where after the cells are sentient but there is a point before where the human cells are not sentient.
That is why I feel we do not view it as murder or killing as I have heard here because untill a certain point the cells are just like a sperm or an unfertalize egg they have the potential to "be life" they just arent to that point where they have developed into that yet.

reply from: Shenanigans

The worst thing I ever got called was "Hey, you, in the bushes!!"

reply from: Shenanigans

When does that point occur, IYO?
And the newborn isn't sentient. Or does birth simply give you a reason to change your applications of worthy humanity?

reply from: Faramir

Sorry that some of us messed it up with nonsense.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

Like I said before the sex cells reach a certain stage in developement we do not consitter them to be anything more then cells... and cells die all the time in the body. Its all a matter of timing... Thats why even prochoicers do not belive in abortion after a certain amout of development. And abortiond doctors dont just push a button and flush developingcells/babies out they screen them to see how far along they are because if its far enough then yes its a life and you cannot kill it.
I wouldent be objected to stricter laws on abortions limiting them to the shortest amount of time even the most oblivious women could realize that she is pregnant within reason of course.

reply from: Shenanigans

Are you referring to a zygote? Or a foetus?
A sperm cell and an egg cell are not human beings until they have combined, I don't care if a bunch of sperm dies in some dirty man's hand in the privacy of his toilet. I don't care about the egg flushed out of a woman during her cycle.
What I care about is the human life in the womb. And most abortions don't occur when the life is just a few cells big. I think its 91% at the 8 week mark. Its not just a blob of cells at that point.
But what about you, what point is it that you say "its no longer a blob, its worthy of protection or at least regulation around the circumstance of abortion".

reply from: Faramir

Sorry that some of us messed it up with nonsense.
I'll add some more:
I live in a fairly rural area in the Pacific Northwest, but my native state is Pennsylvania. I have two sons, ages 26 and 21. One is a musician and a choir director at a church and is working on his doctorate in music, the other is in college studying computer science. I'm a professional industrial photographer, and do much traveling in my business, and work in many different states in the east and west.
I like to do yoga to stay in shape and stay flexible, but have once again slacked off. I have been working for years on my voice hoping to one day be ready to sing a solo in church, and sometimes I think I'm ready and sometimes I think I really suck and should go back to bowling as a hobby.
I will soon be 54 and wish I had more to show for that many years. 20 years ago I would have told you I'd be a saint in 20 years, but all I see is a sinner, and one who would do incredibly horrible things were it not for a church to keep me in line somewhat. 20 years ago I would have told you that I'm really smart and will be even more incredibly smart in 20 years, but I look back on so many incredibly dumb things I've done and have learned that I ain't so smart. The hardest lesson I've learned, and it wasn't that long ago, is that death is real. I've lost enough people I know and a father fairly recently, to finally get it.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

Personaly I would like to limit abortion to pre 3-4 week mark. Most of the time women know if there pregnant reletivly soon after they do the tango.

reply from: Shenanigans

Wow. That's quite early for a choicer.
If you don't mind me asking, how can you justify yourself as being pro-choice if you wish to limit choice to a month? To play devil's advocate, shouldn't you mind your own business, shouldn't a woman at 38 weeks have the right to an abortion? If its her body at 3 weeks, then isn't it still her body at 38 weeks? Her circumstances might change drastically in that time.
Given you seem to want restrictions after such an early stage, what do you think of the majority of abortions at the 8 week mark, and do you think you could end up swapping sides? Is the only reason you support abortion is because of the lack of senitence of the unborn or because of the woman's right?

reply from: OutsidetheBox

"If you don't mind me asking, how can you justify yourself as being pro-choice if you wish to limit choice to a month? To play devil's advocate, shouldn't you mind your own business, shouldn't a woman at 38 weeks have the right to an abortion? If its her body at 3 weeks, then isn't it still her body at 38 weeks? Her circumstances might change drastically in that time."
A women does have a right to an abortion and under certain stituation such as rape... As many of you have pointed out the time should be extended for her to be able to abort. Honestly though I think it comes down to responcibility if a women is on birth controll and the man uses spermacide and a condom its not going to happen. People do choose to have sex and some times they do not use protection or only limited protection and in those times its really there responcibility to check to see if they started something.
Three to four weeks seems ample time to do so and for most prolifers its within an acceptable time period consitering that there will be some form of legal abortion in our country always. I personaly feel within 3-4 weeks that its still just cells doing what cells do best divide. I see women all the time comming in for the day after pill, does that mean they know if there pregnant or not or are they just making sure, I dont know, but i think its there right and I support them.
"Given you seem to want restrictions after such an early stage, what do you think of the majority of abortions at the 8 week mark, and do you think you could end up swapping sides? Is the only reason you support abortion is because of the lack of senitence of the unborn or because of the woman's right?"
I think because the laws are what they are now and women are impowered to do what ever they want (like men) that they dont see why they shouldent have an 8 week abortion. It shouldent be something that is law enforced bye causing scenes where goverment rushes to abortion clinices to remove women who are past the lawful allowed time. I think it should be something society teaches women as they grow up.
Say hey your a women you hold the power within you to create life take that respocibility seriously. Dont withhold from having sex because your afraid just make sure you take the right percausions and check up in those rush/possible situations.
Yes I support abortion for both those reasons, for womens rights and because I believe that before like i said 3-4 week the cells are not a "child" yet. But I do agree after that point, which can be a little flexable because as I said before doctors can screen the developement, the cells are a living human.

reply from: 4choice4all

FYI....because of some underlying health issues I didn't have monthly periods...sometimes I was lucky to have them yearly. So I found out I was expecting my first child when teh first trimester was over. My clothes were getting snug but I biked 20+ miles a week for pleasure and maintained a healthy weight...and I was always tired. I thought maybe a tumor...female cancer(runs in the family)....and found out I was pregnant. I tried for 2 years to have my second...with no luck. We were foster parents and just started the process to complete the adoption classes through the state. I went in for what I thought was a UTI and found out I was pregnant...at my first visit we did an ultrasound to date the pregnancy and I was 15 weeks. So it's possible to not know for a while.

reply from: Yuuki

Actually no. Most women do not know until at least week 5. No pregnancy test can detect HCG at the 3 week mark, and 4 is pushing it.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

Ok I checked around and the HCG levels in a womens body after implantation of the egg can be tested up to 6-8 day conclusivly for pregnancy. The problem is that at that early of a stage the HCG levels are around 20mIU/Ml and most store brand tests only detect 50 to 100 mIU/ml so you wouldent know untill around 20 days with conventional pregnancy tests.
Tests that detect as low as 10mIU/Ml are avaliable but are more expensive so the clear answer would to be push companies to make tests more sensitive so that the women could make the choice earlier before the cells would be consitered a life.

reply from: carolemarie

well and good, but the problem is that most women don't realize they are pregnant that soon, if your using BC you assume it works,,,,,and the problem for the majority of prolifers is they believe life begins at conception. When the sperm and egg meet, not at a certain amount of cells.....because that is when the new life with totally seperate DNA begins.
The issue isn't how far along someone is when they have an abortion. That is a side issue.
What we are against is the killing of the embryo.

reply from: nancyu

If you really think overpopulation is a problem (even though it isn't) I propose an open hunting season on pro aborts - rather than killing of defenseless unborn children.
Just a thought.

reply from: nancyu

You mean like you try to shove Roe Vs Wade down our craws? Some of us are designed to want to protect children. You can't just up and say, okay we're going to accept this killing of children now, and we expect you all to accept it too. Whether you like it or not.
I don't suppose you've ever tried looking at this from another perspective have you? But you expect us to see it from your point of view.
Well, I don't, so shove it down your own craw.

reply from: OutsidetheBox

I love children I plan on having a few with my wife and we will be wonderful parents. I have always been an advocate for fair and equal education especially when i lived in michigan. I believe the idea that parents need to raise there children and that one of the parents needs to be home with the children when they are either it be the father or the mother. Tvs dont raise children.
I have tryed to look at this topic from your perspective and I can see that to you its life as soon as the egg is fertalized. I get that I understand your position.
I just take, in my opinion, a more biological/psychological view of it. Untill the cells develope enough and start to form a brain its not conscious and not alive in the way we are alive and when its not alive its ok to abort. Just like how patents in hospitals who go brain dead are physically alive but we dont say that they are really alive and thats why its not killing them when there family pulls the plug.

reply from: yoda

Yes you can. The Emancipation Proclamation was "shoved down the throats" of the slaveholders, and there was a positive outcome.

reply from: yoda

Do you work for a propaganda company, or a lie factory?
"Brain activity" cannot occur in a dead creature.

reply from: yoda

The infamous proabort and "bioethecist" Mark Sanger says it's okay to kill them too.

reply from: yoda

Well worth re-posting.......

reply from: yoda

It isn't a "name" if it's in the dictionary (even in it's longer form):
pro-abortion SYLLABICATION: pro-a·bor·tion PRONUNCIATION: pr-bôrshn ADJECTIVE: Favoring or supporting legalized abortion. http://www.bartleby.com/61/27/P0572700.html

Main Entry: pro·abor·tion Pronunciation: (')prO-&-'bor-sh&n Function: adjective : favoring the legalization of abortion -pro·abor·tion·ist /-sh(&-)n&st/ noun http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pro-abortion

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - pro·a·bor·tion - adjective: PROCHOICE http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=proabortion&r=66

Proabortion: PROCHOICE http://dictionary.infoplease.com/proabortion
pro-a·bor·tion adjective - favoring legal access to abortion: in favor of open legal access to voluntary abortion http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861736813 (SINCE REMOVED!)
Main Entry: pro·abor·tion adjective Date: 1972 : favoring the legalization of abortion http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=proabortion

reply from: yoda

Gee, I take a day off and look what I missed.......

reply from: yoda

Death for others is preferable to life for those same "others", apparently.
But not death for themselves, obviously.

reply from: yoda

Yes they are. See the definitions previously posted.

reply from: yoda

Just can't bring yourself to say "Kill it", can you?
"Brain size"? That's your moral justification for killing babies?

reply from: yoda

Or, in the alternative, to whine endlessly about the forum, but never leave it, right? I mean, isn't that what some posters here do?

reply from: yoda

Proaborts love the "easy way out".

reply from: yoda

Ah, but we've got you proaborts to act as the "insect overpopulation police", so we can rest easy at night!
Not to mention, you kill a few babies on the side, just to be fair about this....

reply from: yoda

Hint, hint, hint.......

reply from: yoda

Ah, so to you, abortion would be a distant ....... third maybe?

reply from: yoda

Who IS this "we"?
And how can ANY living creature be "more than cells"? Aren't all living creatures made up of "cells"? Aren't you?
And what does stage of development have to do with species? You do know that "human being" and "Homo sapiens" are nothing more than our species designation, don't you? I mean with all your education and everything, surely you ran across that at some point, didn't you?

reply from: yoda

Wow...... more creativity from the proabort definitions factory.......
Merriam-Webster Dictionary: Main Entry: child 1 : an unborn or recently born person http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/child

MSN Encarta Dictionary: child [ (plural chil·dren) noun 5. unborn baby
http://dictionary.msn.com/

Information Please: child -n., 8. a human fetus. http://www.infoplease.com/
American Heritage Dictionary: Child: 2. a. An unborn infant; a fetus. IDIOMS: with child Pregnant. http://www.bartleby.com/61/
Wordsmyth: The educational dictionary: Phrases: with child http://www.wordsmyth.net
Webster's Revised Unabriged Dictionary: Child: To be with child, to be pregnant. -- the immediate progeny of human parents http://humanities.uchicago.edu/forms_unrest/webster.form.html
Main Entry: child Function: noun
1 : an unborn or recently born person
http://www.intelihealth.com/cgi-bin/dictionary.cgi?book=Medical&adv=0&cgi=1&t=9276&p=%7Ebr%2CRNM%7C%7Est%2C331%7C%7Er%2CWSRNM000%7C%7Eb%2C*%7C&WEB_HOME=%2FIH%2F&MIVAL=ihtIH&WEB_HOST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intelihealth.com&va=child&search.x=14&search.y=10

reply from: yoda

Except for those that you want to have killed before birth?
Wrong again. It's "life" (alive) at all times, even as eggs and sperm, but it's not a live "human being: until fertilization. You seem to be determined to misstate every single point about "life".
You don't mind contradicting yourself, do you? There's no trace of anything resembling "biology/phychology" in anything you say, just your standard proabort mantras and slogans. You never link to anything, you just spout them off like a tape recorder.
There is no way to be "alive", other than to be alive. There is no "way we are alive" that is different from any other living thing. Life is life is life is life. And death is death is death is death.
So someone who is about to die is morally the same to you as someone just beginning their life?
Sounds like the slogan "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

reply from: OutsidetheBox

Oh just shusshh OldManAvatar, your an extreamist and you have no place in a discussion forum. We already know that you break into aborthion clinics at night and set up fake bombs that count down and say boom like the joker.... Dont forget to take your obstinate opinions with you when you shuffle over to the retirement home.

reply from: yoda

Poor baby, just can't keep up, can you? Killing babies is all a big joke to you, isn't it?
Tell us again how killing babies is such a good idea, okay?

reply from: ProInformed

So you didn't LEARN all about abortion first BEFORE you became 'pro-choice', eh?
And you aren't "strong enough in [your] convictions" to take the challenge to become pro-informed and well-informed about abortion, eh?
Um the debate over abortion isn't exactly suffering from a shortage of stubbornly, ignorantly, unwaveringly devoted abortion industry fans who lack the courage to LEARN about abortion before they volunteer to help the abortion industry INSTEAD of helping women and babies.
You shouldn't exactly be proud about discussing abortion on internet boards for year without LEARNING anything! You've been online and interested in aboriton for years but you didn't even bother to use the internet to learn the TRUTH yet?!?
You're basically admitting that even though you've had online pro-lifers trying to tell you the facts for years, you are going to keep right on chanting abortion industry myths, eh? I bet you've already had every single pro-abort argument you could think of fully and effectively dismantled by pro-lifers countering with the facts, ove and over again FOR YEARS, but you still stubbornly stand by your POV.
So you're a Roe-Bot... a pro-abort troll... whew like THAT is something admirable (NOT!)
Yea, I wouldn't exactly be bragging about that if I were you LOL.

reply from: yoda

What's to learn, for a guy like 4choice? He already knew that abortion got him out of 18 years of child support, what else would he care about?

reply from: Faramir

What's to learn, for a guy like 4choice? He already knew that abortion got him out of 18 years of child support, what else would he care about?
4choice is a wife and mother of three children who has already stated she never aborted and never intends to.

reply from: Faramir

So you didn't LEARN all about abortion first BEFORE you became 'pro-choice', eh?
And you aren't "strong enough in [your] convictions" to take the challenge to become pro-informed and well-informed about abortion, eh?
Um the debate over abortion isn't exactly suffering from a shortage of stubbornly, ignorantly, unwaveringly devoted abortion industry fans who lack the courage to LEARN about abortion before they volunteer to help the abortion industry INSTEAD of helping women and babies.
You shouldn't exactly be proud about discussing abortion on internet boards for year without LEARNING anything! You've been online and interested in aboriton for years but you didn't even bother to use the internet to learn the TRUTH yet?!?
You're basically admitting that even though you've had online pro-lifers trying to tell you the facts for years, you are going to keep right on chanting abortion industry myths, eh? I bet you've already had every single pro-abort argument you could think of fully and effectively dismantled by pro-lifers countering with the facts, ove and over again FOR YEARS, but you still stubbornly stand by your POV.
So you're a Roe-Bot... a pro-abort troll... whew like THAT is something admirable (NOT!)
Yea, I wouldn't exactly be bragging about that if I were you LOL.
Hey, I like your style.
I think your warmth and personality might have an effect on her.

reply from: yoda

So many new proaborts, it's hard to keep them and their stories all separated. They all just kinda melt into one big bloody mess.
A different gender doesn't mean that much, since most single women have to raise their kids without any help from "Daddy" anyway. So all "she" needed to know was that killing a kid relieves both men and women of a lot of expense and aggravation.
And all a lot of proaborts need to know about abortion is that most of their circle of friends are proaborts, so they just jump right in line regardless of what that means. "Liberals" think they can't be popular unless they join the choice mafia. Democrats think they can't get anywhere unless they endorse the slaughter without flinching. It's all selfishness, regardless of the gender.

reply from: Faramir

Then it might be good if they had some pro-life friends.

reply from: 4choice4all

I didn't realize that this was a court of law. Let me be CLEAR. I've been prochoice since I learned what abortion was. I remember the first time I heard the term...two of my friends happened to be catholic and heading to DC for the walk for life. One was wearing a pin shaped like teeny tiny feet on her shirt. They talked about abortion and why they were going. I came home and said something to my mother and her friend. At my first exposure, I sided with choice. That was 7th grade. As time went on and I heard more about the issue...I always leaned towards choice. I attended a rally for Bill Clinton the first year he ran and was confronted by prolife zealots. At that point, I certainly knew I didn't fall in line with THAT belief system. Then I became a wife...and mother...and nothing about those experiences made me waiver in my prochoice stance. Nothing has ever made me believe that ultimately the choice doesn't lie with mother but with the state.
I'm well versed on abortion and reproduction. All the more reason I'm prochoice. This is going to sting a bit....but it's not that I'm not as knowledgeable as you....it's that I see things differently than you.
Yoda...I'm female. Married for 15 years...3 children....all by my husband.

reply from: Faramir

I thought it was nice that this was a thread for telling something about ourselves (whatever we were comfortable sharing online).
Couldn't we stay on that topic?
There are a hundred other threads where we can attack each other.

reply from: Shenanigans

I can tell you, this prolifer won't be happy till its completely banned.
The thing is, people who are pro-life tend to extend the desire for legal protection from conception and don't say "oh, its a person at x week". It tends to the be the PCers who pick a week number and slap some right to it.

reply from: Shenanigans

My brother's friend (who I know anyway) went to the hospital oneday with horrid abdo pains. Turns out she was in labour. She had continued to have periods and didn't increase in any size!! And she wasn't even a large enough lass to hide it!
Thing is, she was rabidly pro-abortion and would have killed the child if she'd learn she was carrying - but once she got over the initial shock and people got into gear with baby stuff and help she can't imagine her life without her kid (who's now 10) and is really pro-life!!

reply from: Shenanigans

As I keep saying, the new born isn't conscious. Brain waves don't begin till the fourth week post conception, but those waves aren't coherent with self awareness or consciousness.

reply from: Shenanigans

I'll never forget the day a pro-abort friend of mine saw images of the foetus, alive, in the womb. WHen he asked what it was, I told him, then he paused and said "that's supposed to be a blob that's its okay to abort?"
Yip.
All his chums were pro-abort, but from that day on he wasn't. All it took was a biology book.

reply from: Shenanigans

So the question then becomes, how do you attribute rights of humanity and life? Do you really beleive a woman should be able to choose to KILL her unborn child?
Because lets stop pissing about, when someone says they're "pro-choice" what theyr'e really saying is I'm "pro [the] choice to KILL unborn children"
Do you really want to be associated with a movement that advocates the killing of a human child based on fluffy, feel good terms like "choice" and "bodily sovereignty"?


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