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CaroleMarie says "I think it would suck to be pregnant with a rapist child."

Does this justify an elective abortion?

by: yoda

What do you say? Where are all of her defenders today? Where is Weenie?

reply from: yoda

Ah, I see that Spinny voted "yes"....... oh wait, Lib said spinny was prolife... hmmm.....

reply from: ChristianLott2

we don't care about what you post spinny. we can keep up with the news just fine ourselves.

reply from: yoda

Fortunately, I have the spinmeister on iggy, so I don't see her trashy threads...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I've already aplogized for that mistake. She'd made some very pro-life posts recently and so I was confused. I don't go around labeling people pro-choice by default. It's ironically hilarious that she ended her pro-life-ish streak right after I made that comment. Made me look like a fool... but, 'tis all in the past.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Do you have ME on ignore?

reply from: faithman

Thats why he wears a tux. If he is going to be impotent, he wants to look impotent. And by the way killer, CM admits that the IAAP cards are part of the reason she has been successful. That just goes to show that IAAP is SSSSSSSOOOOO good even a confessed baby killer can do it.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The day unwanted pregnancies become a thing of the past, I promise to help you outlaw abortion. (Although it would probably be a moot point...)
As long as people attack Planned Parenthood - the single largest provider of sex education, abstinence education and contraceptives - that's not gonna happen. I'd be thrilled if nobody ever had to choose abortion again.
Lol very true. I don't know; actually. I think some women would still want the right to abort, say if their child had something wrong with it.

reply from: yoda

7 to 2 now for a "no" vote..... I wonder who besides spinny voted yes?

reply from: faithman

Thats why he wears a tux. If he is going to be impotent, he wants to look impotent. And by the way killer, CM admits that the IAAP cards are part of the reason she has been successful. That just goes to show that IAAP is SSSSSSSOOOOO good even a confessed baby killer can do it.

reply from: rsg007

I voted "Yes." Do you honestly think "sucky" is the right way to describe being pregnant with a rapist's baby? So Carole has the right idea, but her word isn't strong enough.
I wonder, since you don't think it would be "sucky" to be pregnant with a rapist's baby, then what do you think it would be? Great? Fine? Not a problem at all?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Just take her. We don't want her.
Maybe we should round up all the children of criminals and butcher them all. Would that make you feel better?

reply from: 4given

Originally posted by: rsg007
I wonder, since you don't think it would be "sucky" to be pregnant with a rapist's baby, then what do you think it would be? It isn't the "rapist's baby" any more than it is hers.

reply from: yoda

Hmm........ 12 to 4 ........ that's pretty good so far. That means that among those who voted, both prolife and proabort, those who disagree with carole outnumber those who agree with her three to one.

reply from: SRUW4I5

Maybe people realize that abortion is only a temporary "fix" for pregnancy resulting from rape. Sure, it'll make some women feel better for a little while, but they can end up feeling worse because of it.
Being pregnant because of rape does suck for some women, others say it makes being raped a little less bad because something good came out of it.
In my experience the first three months after an abortion were worse than the first three months of pregnancy. I heard pregnancy gets better after the first three months. So, it seems like it would be easier on the woman to continue the pregnancy.
It doesn't make sense to tell women they can/should cause themselves (and their child) more problems by having an abortion when it isn't needed to save her life...

reply from: micah

I don't know too many women who would be willing to have their rapist's baby. Personally, I'd rip the thing out myself if I had to.

reply from: faithman

Thats no big suprise.....

reply from: RiverMoonLady

SRUW415 - "The first three months after abortion are worse than the first three months of pregnancy, and I heard pregnancy gets better after the first three months."
Source, please, for that little tidbit of confusion? Are you saying that PREGNANCY "gets better" after the first three months, or that the first three months after CHILDBIRTH are better than the first three months after an abortion?
Either way, I'm guessing you have never been pregnant, never given birth and never had an abortion, because your perceptions of the three processes are completely mixed up.

reply from: SRUW4I5

I've had 2 abortions, and I've been pregnant three times. I do know about those.
My source that pregnancy isn't as bad after the first trimester (first three months) is a friend that has carried four pregnancies to term. I'm pretty sure if you go through pregnancy four times you know what you're talking about.
I've never made it past 13 weeks, so I can only go by what other people say about it after that. It was easier for me weeks 10-13 than before that. Which gives me more reason to believe my friend.
I'll edit my other post to say "in my experience".

reply from: Rosalie

What you are describing is your own, personal experience. I know a lot of women who had abortions and who have children and their experience is very different from yours. Point is - your experience is valid only for you. You can NOT generalize and say that everyone else or even most other people will have the same experience. This is different from everyone, especially because the circumstances and peronalities and beliefs of the people involved vary.

reply from: faithman

SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO rich!!!! the back water scanc calling someone mixed up.....Snicker....

reply from: SRUW4I5

What you are describing is your own, personal experience. I know a lot of women who had abortions and who have children and their experience is very different from yours. Point is - your experience is valid only for you. You can NOT generalize and say that everyone else or even most other people will have the same experience. This is different from everyone, especially because the circumstances and peronalities and beliefs of the people involved vary.
Yes, and part of it is the experience of someone else. I editted my post so it. It shouldn't sound as general now.

reply from: yoda

Not if you're prolife, it doesn't.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It's actually common knowledge that the pregnancy experience usually gets better after the first trimester IF the woman is experiencing any negative side effects.

reply from: galen

yep it does suck... and guess what the child is a wonderful young man!

reply from: carolemarie

I am sure that has alot to do with his mom...

reply from: galen

thanks but i think it also has to do with him being alive.

reply from: yoda

And the "suckiness" never took precedence over that child's right to life?

reply from: faithman

You mean a corpse can't be a good young man? How narrow minded of you.

reply from: galen

nope the sukieness (sp?) never took precedence...

reply from: yoda

Then you must be prolife..... unambiguously.......

reply from: Rosalie

The morning sickness is what USUALLY gets better but it's not a rule. And all the things that actually really burden the woman's body even more than 'just' throwing up every 10 minutes (and sometimes not being able to go to work because you are too sick and unable to leave the bathroom - but I forgot, the worst you can get are stretch marks, right?) start happening.
It's all extremely individual.

reply from: Yuuki

The morning sickness is what USUALLY gets better but it's not a rule. And all the things that actually really burden the woman's body even more than 'just' throwing up every 10 minutes (and sometimes not being able to go to work because you are too sick and unable to leave the bathroom - but I forgot, the worst you can get are stretch marks, right?) start happening.
It's all extremely individual.
I didn't say it was a rule. I said "in general" which means it happens to more than 50% of women who become pregnant. America sucks as far as maternal leave and pay; we should look to Russia for advice.

reply from: micah

It would be interesting to solicit the views of anti-choicers on this subject. It's like George Carlin says about pro-lifers, "pre-born, you're okay. if you're pre-school, pro-lifers don't want to know your name".

reply from: carolemarie

That isn't true at all!
I think you should learn to take what a comedian's statements with a grain of salt.
Most people I know work to help women and their chldren both born and preborn and we support programs that help women and families.

reply from: scopia19822

"The morning sickness is what USUALLY gets better but it's not a rule. And all the things that actually really burden the woman's body even more than 'just' throwing up every 10 minutes (and sometimes not being able to go to work because you are too sick and unable to leave the bathroom - but I forgot, the worst you can get are stretch marks, right?) start happening.
It's all extremely individual."
My first pregnancy I didnt have any problems other than having to pee all of the time. I only gained 10lbs. My 2nd pregnancy was at times sheer hell. I threw up for 6 months, couldnt keep a morsel down. During the last trimester I had problems bleeding because my cervix couldnt accomadate the weight of the baby thanks to being botched by the abortion BTW. I also went into false labor many times and was on strict bedrest. I almost lost him twice when I started bleeding profusly at 7 months. It was a bytch at times, but I would do it all over again because I loved my son then and I love him now . I love my son unconditionally and nothing he could do will ever make him lose that love.

reply from: yoda

George was a rabid proabort, and that quote is so very, very typical of the proabort approach to the subject of abortion: "Don't talk about abortion, talk about those who oppose abortion".

reply from: SRUW4I5

It would be interesting to solicit the views of anti-choicers on this subject. It's like George Carlin says about pro-lifers, "pre-born, you're okay. if you're pre-school, pro-lifers don't want to know your name".
He also said chickens are good people. Should we really take what someone says seriously when they'll call chickens people?

reply from: galen

Then you must be prolife..... unambiguously.......
not according to CL2 or spinny or ChM
seems it depends on the issue and the one you are offending at that particular time ans space... its kinda like a episode of DR Who...

reply from: faithman

It would be interesting to solicit the views of anti-choicers on this subject. It's like George Carlin says about pro-lifers, "pre-born, you're okay. if you're pre-school, pro-lifers don't want to know your name".
He also said chickens are good people. Should we really take what someone says seriously when they'll call chickens people?
Seeings how cowardly bortheads are, I can see how they would identify with chickens. But I would say they are more like what chickens leave behind.

reply from: yoda

Spinny is judging who is prolife too?

reply from: Rosalie

Until a fetus comes along, it seems, because when it does, your son's life becomes irrelevant in comparison to the fetus. His well-being, his love for you, the fact that you're his mom and he loves you more than anything ... all that becomes irrelevant, all that fades when an embryo is formed.
That's a worldview that I will never understand, accept or support. Ever.
I absolutely agree.
I said that before - when I was in Europe, I was ashamed every single time I was asked about our health care system, maternity leaves etc.

reply from: faithman

Killers have to blur that line to justify their evil deeds. Darkness avoids light, because it is exposed for what it is in light. The borties want to cover their issue, and as the profetii killer has said herself," fight tooth and toenail" against the light of personhood for the womb child. Personhood is the light. The line drawn in the sand. The distinction between false and true. If things seem shadowy, it is no time to compromise. It is time to turn up the light of personhood until there is no more "what if" shadows. Just the simple fact of womb child personhood, and the final judgment of citizen jurist as to what punishment for those who destroy the preborn. That is the way it is for the born person, that is the way it should be with the womb child person.

reply from: galen

Spinny is judging who is prolife too?
he has judged me in the past....

reply from: lukesmom

Until a fetus comes along, it seems, because when it does, your son's life becomes irrelevant in comparison to the fetus. His well-being, his love for you, the fact that you're his mom and he loves you more than anything ... all that becomes irrelevant, all that fades when an embryo is formed.
That's a worldview that I will never understand, accept or support. Ever.
I absolutely agree.
I said that before - when I was in Europe, I was ashamed every single time I was asked about our health care system, maternity leaves etc.
See, you can be respectful.

reply from: faithman

Until a fetus comes along, it seems, because when it does, your son's life becomes irrelevant in comparison to the fetus. His well-being, his love for you, the fact that you're his mom and he loves you more than anything ... all that becomes irrelevant, all that fades when an embryo is formed.
That's a worldview that I will never understand, accept or support. Ever.
I absolutely agree.
I said that before - when I was in Europe, I was ashamed every single time I was asked about our health care system, maternity leaves etc.
See, you can be respectful.
Oh, our informative little butt nuggett, thank you from the bottom of my heart for straightening this all out for us poor monster, idiot, stupid prolifers! Too bad you are a butt nuggett and forced to hide away. Never mind, know that we love you butt nuggett proaborts here and we try really hard not to pity you in your butt nuggettness...

reply from: Shenanigans

In NZL you get free ante and post natal care. You get to chose if you want a GP, OB-GYN or Midwife to care for you during your pregnancy. You get about 3 months paid paternity leave (for mums and dads - though if you both work at the same company you can't get it at the same time). YOu then get another 3 months from a govt. programme, so all up, 6 months paid leave. You can also score your annual leave in advance, a lady at my work is preg and will deliver soon and she's going to have at least a paid year off. You also get another tax break and can get into a programme that gives you a little extra "The Working for Families package".
Of course, you also get free abortions, and if you live in some rural area, the govt forks out for your transport to the aborting hospital and you get free accomodatoin in a hotel of your choice, and you can take at least 3 support persons with you, all paid for by the govt.
(that part I obviously don't like).
Hell, if you need a late term abortion, after 26 weeks or so, the govt pays for you to go over to Aussie to get it done there.
But I do think its a sad state of affairs that America govt can spend billions to blow up Arabs but won't fund decent pregnancy and post care. The richest country in the world and you have people living on the street and you dont' have a decent health care system.

reply from: yoda

We're nowhere near the richest country in the world anymore, and we do have a decent health care system...... for those who can afford it.

reply from: scopia19822

"We're nowhere near the richest country in the world anymore, and we do have a decent health care system...... for those who can afford it."
Maybe if we stop sending aid to these other countries and take care of our own first we might not have as big of a homeless problem or people going without healthcare. But Healtcare should be a right, not a privalage.

reply from: scopia19822

"Until a fetus comes along, it seems, because when it does, your son's life becomes irrelevant in comparison to the fetus. His well-being, his love for you, the fact that you're his mom and he loves you more than anything ... all that becomes irrelevant, all that fades when an embryo is formed."
So are you saying that I am morally obligated to abort my unborn child so that my son can have his mother around, even if she became nothing but a shell because she did something that goes against her conscience? So I have to show my son my love by abrting his brother or sister? Thats real twisted. What if he asked my why I did that and if I tell him he ends up hating me for having his sibling killed?

reply from: CharlesD

"What if the mother was raped?"
"What if she can't afford to raise a baby?"
"What about the discomforts of pregnancy?"
"But a woman can care better for her born children if she isn't pregnant."
Exactly what do any of those statements have to do with whether or not is is right to take the life of an innocent human being?

reply from: nancyu

http://www.aapsonline.org/socialized-medicine.htm

reply from: galen

Spinny is a "he"?
_________________________-
he she it?

reply from: Yuuki

I'd like to mention that it WOULD suck to be pregnant from rape. It's not an excuse to kill a child though.

reply from: SRUW4I5

I know from experience it does. You're right bout it not bein an excuse to kill a child.

reply from: yoda

I know from experience it does. You're right bout it not being an excuse to kill a child.
That was the whole point........

reply from: Rosalie

Considering your recent vulgarities and insults, you can't.

reply from: Rosalie

I cannot, would not and will not tell you what to do. I think it's extremely twisted to put a fetus above a born child. I'd have to ask you why you even had kids in the first place if you are not prepared to do everything you can to be there for them and with them as long as possible.
You apparently think you are expendable (if you are a halfway decent person/mother then no, you are not) and that your born child is expendable, too. That your son's love and need for his mother is expendable.
No one I know would hate their own mom for preserving her own health and life. Unless of course you teach your kid that preserving your own health and life is a bad thing and that those who do it are rotten human beings and they should be hated and punished. Then again if you do that, what kind of a parent are you?
Health is NOT expandable. At least to most people who have their values straight.
Everything is expendable to you - except for a fetus. You think a fetus means more than your love for your born child, his love for you, your family, the well-being of you all. Fetus trumps just everything for you. I find that extremely disturbing.
Nope, I won't ever get that and I'm glad. It would mean complete and utter decomposition of everything that's good and right.

reply from: scopia19822

"I'd have to ask you why you even had kids in the first place if you are not prepared to do everything you can to be there for them and with them as long as possible."
I have one living child, not many. I would do what ever I could to preserve my health and the baby health first and formost, but I will not sacrifice any of my children to save myself. I wish that you could get it through your head that my children, born or unborn are my children and I have to consider all of them before myself. If I were to come down with cancer I would do whatever I could to preserve my life for my son to have a mom. Sacrificing my life to save my unborn childs is the same to me as pushing my son out of the way of an oncoming car and getting myself killed. My son knows that I love him enough to the point I would lay down my life for him.

reply from: Rosalie

So your health is irrelevant and the fact that you'd leave your son behind is irrelevant, too. In comparison with a fetus. Yeah, I get that.
You only consider the fetus. Not the already born child.
It's not the same and I have explained to you why it is not the same, it's not even comparable.
Yes, you love him until you get pregnant. Because the second you do, he becomes a second class citizen. A fetus overrides all your feelings for your son. He doesn't matter nearly as much as the fetus to you.

reply from: scopia19822

"Yes, you love him until you get pregnant. Because the second you do, he becomes a second class citizen. A fetus overrides all your feelings for your son. He doesn't matter nearly as much as the fetus to you."
You dont know what you are talking about, you dont know how I feel about my son. This conversation is over, the more it continues it keeps going around in circles, you go ahead and think what you want, if you are prochoice than you have to accept that people make choices that may not be in sync with your worldview.

reply from: yoda

Pay no attention to the butt nuggets, scopia......

reply from: micah

Pay no attention to the butt nuggets, scopia......
I'm just amazed even with the elegance and intelligence of the anti-choice rhetoric, that abortion has stayed the law of the land for almost 4 decades.

reply from: faithman

Pay no attention to the butt nuggets, scopia......
I'm just amazed even with the elegance and intelligence of the anti-choice rhetoric, that abortion has stayed the law of the land for almost 4 decades.
Not amazing at all. It isn't the pro-death butt nuggetts who have kept abortion legal, it is the pro-life butt nuggetts who have done the job for you. Just because there may be a few pro-life hairs in the dingle berry, it is still a butt nugett. Obama the criminal elect, won more because of the disgust of real americans who stayed home and didn't bother to vote for 2 very bad choices. "POLITICS" is not the issue. The womb child is. When we keep our focus on them, the politics will follow. Voids are always filled. We have a void of true servant leadership at present, but the laws of the Universe will not allow that condition to remain. We need to quit trying to fill the void with selfwilled electability, but merely clean the vessel so the supreme Law Giver of the UNIVERSE to fill the void. My hope is not in the hearts of men in the government. My hope is in the One who holds those hearts in His hand.

reply from: yoda

And in a nation of enlightened leaders and eloquent poets, slavery remained the law of the land for 150 years or so, didn't it?

reply from: Rosalie

Quite frankly, Scopia, I don't give a damn about your feelings anymore. YOU have been the one who started the crusade here about how pro-choicers do not and cannot love their kids, you have attacked me as a mother. You have crossed all the lines here and I see no reason why I should treat you with any respect.
And maybe if you had used your brains, you would notice this line that I put into every single post of mine - that even if you decided to neglect your son and made the choice to die for a fetus, I would never stop you because you have the right to do that. I can and will, however, think what I want to think about what kind of a parent you are.
Let me put it into perspective for you: you claim to hate abortion, you claim to despise pro-choicers and feminists and that they cannot possibly be decent people and decent parents. And this is EXACTLY how I feel about you and your statements.
Don't like it? You shouldn't have started it.
All the reasoning you have ever given me for this scenario was--"... BUT THE FETUS." It never was-- "What about my born child?" That's beyond horrible.

reply from: faithman

Quite frankly, Scopia, I don't give a damn about your feelings anymore. YOU have been the one who started the crusade here about how pro-choicers do not and cannot love their kids, you have attacked me as a mother. You have crossed all the lines here and I see no reason why I should treat you with any respect.
And maybe if you had used your brains, you would notice this line that I put into every single post of mine - that even if you decided to neglect your son and made the choice to die for a fetus, I would never stop you because you have the right to do that. I can and will, however, think what I want to think about what kind of a parent you are.
Let me put it into perspective for you: you claim to hate abortion, you claim to despise pro-choicers and feminists and that they cannot possibly be decent people and decent parents. And this is EXACTLY how I feel about you and your statements.
Don't like it? You shouldn't have started it.
All the reasoning you have ever given me for this scenario was--"... BUT THE FETUS." It never was-- "What about my born child?" That's beyond horrible.
SSSSSSOOOOO you believe you had the right to legally murder your children before they were born? What an act of love that one is. You haven't the foggest what love is. You are a low lying creature of darkness, and I pity your children for having pro-death scum like you for a mom. There is no room for love for anybody else because your dark evil heart has lavished it on your "right" to kill.

reply from: Rosalie

What a conversation this would be. Let's have a mock-conversation. I will not drag your actual son into it, hence my use of the word "kid".
Scopia: Child, I now need to die. You see, I could save myself and be there with you for many more decades ... BUT THE BABY!
Kid: But mommy! I need you! I can't live without you. Don't you wanna be here with me?
Scopia: BUT THE BABY!
Kid: What about it? It will die, too, and even if it didn't, I need you to stay here!
Scopia: BUT THE BABY! I would feel guilty forever if I had an abortion and preserved my health and lived on with and for those who love me unconditionally.
Kid: But mommy, don't you love me?
Scopia: BUT THE BABY! Of course I love you but... but the baby! You see, honey, even though the baby doesn't feel pain, even though it will never have any relationships or shared memories with anyone, even though it never had any relationships or shared memories, it is equal to you and everyone who has feelings, who can be hurt, who I have shared my life with and who will be scarred foerver by all this in every way!
But you see, in all its equality, it is a little more EQUAL because it matters more than anything else. I love you but dying for a fetus is more important than our love.
Yeah, that's a true paradigm of a loving, caring mother. Or is any of that wrong, Scopia? Doesn't the fetus override everything? If not, I'll be glad to hear that from you. If so, then the mock conversation, unfortunately, holds a lot of weight. I just hope for the sake of those who actually love you that you will never have to make that choice and that your son will never know that you think a fetus matters more than him.

reply from: Rosalie

Quite frankly, Scopia, I don't give a damn about your feelings anymore. YOU have been the one who started the crusade here about how pro-choicers do not and cannot love their kids, you have attacked me as a mother. You have crossed all the lines here and I see no reason why I should treat you with any respect.
And maybe if you had used your brains, you would notice this line that I put into every single post of mine - that even if you decided to neglect your son and made the choice to die for a fetus, I would never stop you because you have the right to do that. I can and will, however, think what I want to think about what kind of a parent you are.
Let me put it into perspective for you: you claim to hate abortion, you claim to despise pro-choicers and feminists and that they cannot possibly be decent people and decent parents. And this is EXACTLY how I feel about you and your statements.
Don't like it? You shouldn't have started it.
All the reasoning you have ever given me for this scenario was--"... BUT THE FETUS." It never was-- "What about my born child?" That's beyond horrible.
SSSSSSOOOOO you believe you had the right to legally murder your children before they were born? What an act of love that one is. You haven't the foggest what love is. You are a low lying creature of darkness, and I pity your children for having pro-death scum like you for a mom. There is no room for love for anybody else because your dark evil heart has lavished it on your "right" to kill.
Blah blah blah, insult-insult-personal attack-disgusting personal attack-insult insult-attack-attack-attack-insult. Typical 'pro-life' yokel.

reply from: scopia19822

"BUT THE BABY! Of course I love you but... but the baby! You see, honey, even though the baby doesn't feel pain, even though it will never have any relationships or shared memories with anyone, even though it never had any relationships or shared memories, it is equal to you and everyone who has feelings, who can be hurt, who I have shared my life with and who will be scarred foerver by all this in every way!
But you see, in all its equality, it is a little more EQUAL because it matters more than anything else. I love you but dying for a fetus is more important than our love. "
Are you going to tell me that you did not bond with your unborn daughter? Think what you want of me, but a woman is under no moral obligation to abort if she has potential life threatening complications because she has born children and by the content of your "mock conversation" that is exactly what you are saying. What if he were to come to me and ask my why I aborted his sibling? Why would I kill a baby? Maybe he thinks I would have him killed to ? Have you ever thought of that ?

reply from: Rosalie

Aaaaand Scopia does not comprehend again.
Of course I bonded with her. I wanted her and I spent some 40 weeks with her living inside of my body. But the relationship was NOT the same as it is now. Our relationship evolved. That's what happens when you share memories and sets of experience with people. You denying it doesn't make it untrue.
I have explained to you like 10 times that women are under no moral obligations to abort. I just find it sad and actually really heinous to think that a fetus overrides everything because that means disregarding not only your health but also (and maybe first and foremost) your born child and his life. Because if you would actually saw life as more than just human DNA and a heartbeat, you could never be able to do anything like that.
I have explained to you before that unless you brainwash your kid by saying that having an abortion, even to save your own life, is wrong, he won't consider it wrong. He would NOT use such reasoning, unless you taught him to.
But I guess that you will rather take the easy way out. After all, if you die with the fetus, you will no longer be burdened by what is happening to your BORN child whereas if you actually chose YOUR born child and YOUR health and YOUR life, you would have to go through, hmm, let me think... raising your child, being there for all the milestones, through good times and bad times ... oh yeah, I suppose dying for a fetus is much easier.
Doing something like that is selfish, it's a call for attention (Look at me! I'm such a martyr, dying for a fetus! My born child -- what about him???) and it points out to a lack of bond between you two because a strong bond would not allow for a fetus to override it.

reply from: scopia19822

"Doing something like that is selfish, it's a call for attention (Look at me! I'm such a martyr, dying for a fetus! My born child -- what about him???) and it points out to a lack of bond between you two because a strong bond would not allow for a fetus to override it"
I bonded with my son the moment I found out I was carrying him, just like I did my daughter. None of my children are expendable under any circumstances if comes down to me or them I will lay down my life for them. Too bad you cant understand that. I have been a mom for over 5 years soon to be 6, your still a new mom. My son knows that abortion is wrong, he asked me what the word meant not that long ago and when I told him you should have seen the look on his face, he was horrified. All I told him was that abortion was killing a baby before it was born and he even at 5 knows how henious it is. Why would anyone want to kill a baby he asked me, I told him some people just dont want them . He asked if I would ever do that and I told him no. So if it ever came down the me or the baby he would understand why I would let his sibling live.

reply from: scopia19822

"After all, if you die with the fetus, "
Die with the baby? Dont you understand that I would be laying down my life so that my unborn child could live? The child will be living, not dead.

reply from: micah

I've heard it said that women know the second they find out they are pregnant whether or not they will keep the baby.

reply from: Rosalie

Bonding is NOT the issue. Your relationship with a fetus is NOT the same as your relationship with your born child because you are additionally bonded by everything you have been through together.
You can deny it all you want but that's how it is. Your denial doesn't change anything.
Clearly your born child is expendable because when it comes to a fetus vs born child, the fetus wins.
No, I can't understand prefering fetus over your born child, I'll never will and I don't want to. It's disgusting.
And? Does that mean that when I have my second child, I will automatically gain seniority over you because I'll have two kids and you'll still have just one?
Ahahaha.
Because that's what you taught him. If you had taught him that heart surgery is disgusting, he'd react the same way.
Well, you left out the tiny, obviously insignificant detail that is the woman. So yeah, you have started brainwashing him already.
Well, that is your right as a parent.
Because that's what you have taught him. You haven't even given him the chance to learn about it himself and make his own decisions. But I guess that must be expected by people like you.
SO you would leave two children behind. One that never knew his or her mother and one that lost her mother to the sibling. Well, I hope your husband has lots of money for therapy.

reply from: nancyu

Your daughter is the very same person she was in the womb. If you had aborted her then, she would not be here now.

reply from: scopia19822

"Because that's what you have taught him. You haven't even given him the chance to learn about it himself and make his own decisions. But I guess that must be expected by people like you. "
Parents teach their children all of the time. So are you going to allow your daughter to make up her mind on this issue, what if she does not share your opinion on the issue and thinks it henious? Are you going to disown her? I bet you will teach her on this issue according to your own worldview just like I am doing with my son. The methods that are used in abortion are henious and if used on a unborn animal you would have PETA members rioting in the streets. My son will learn about these when hes older, but what you adovacate as choice is what I and other call murder. I would do to an animal what you and your likeminded cohorts would do to an unborn child if it suited your fancy. Abortion is dividing America just like slavery did in the 19th century. If abortion is such a wonderful thing than why do most Americans if they dont want it abolished completely want it heavily restricted?

reply from: scopia19822

"Your daughter is the very same person she was in the womb. If you had aborted her then, she would not be here now."
Nancy dont make it sound too simple then it might actually make sense and then her brain will overload.

reply from: Rosalie

You have asked me that more than once and my reply remains the same. OF COURSE I will let her (and any other kids we will have, because we will definitely have more) to make up her mind. I come from a long line of women who made up their minds on their own, without any propaganda. There are no abortion debates until the child in question makes up their mind. THEN there might be debates.
I would never think any less of my child for having a different viewpoint from mine but honestly, in this case, I don't see that happening. We all are pro-choice - not because we were taught to but because it is what we truly believe, what all the research we'd done pointed to. Our children will have the greatest example in how me and their father behave. Being anti-choice is employing the utmost disrespect towards the woman and it IS abuse, and frankly, I don't see any child of mine being pro-abuse.
You are wrong. I will send her to the library to do her own research. Which is what I had been told. That's what I had done, and then I debated with my parents and friends and my gynecologist and that's how I became pro-choice.
People in PETA are fanatical idiots - so that is not the best comparison. And nope, most of the methods are NOT heinous, they are comparable to any other surgery performed. Not to mention that sometimes swallowing a pill is all it takes. But maybe you consider swallowing a pill heinous, too.
He will learn what YOU think. Like I said, that's your right as a parent. And it is also MY right not to teach my kids about abortion this way.
Are you sure you didn't want to say 'wouldn't'?
And quite frankly, animals feel pain and are much more aware than a fetus. I thought you knew that.
Two incomparable topics.
They don't want it HEAVILY restricted. And I wouldn't know, I'm not in their heads. I can only guess.

reply from: Rosalie

Are you such a *****-up that all you can do are insults? Why did I ever think better of you?
Are you really so *****ing stupid that all you can do is post mindless insults? Why did I ever think better of you? That was seriously naive of me to think better of you.

reply from: scopia19822

"You are wrong. I will send her to the library to do her own research. Which is what I had been told. That's what I had done, and then I debated with my parents and friends and my gynecologist and that's how I became pro-choice."
My mom did that with me as a teen, which is one thing she did right. My aunt taught me what abortion was and that it was wrong, but never taught me the methods of it etc. I learned that by going to the library and reading about them of course I was appalled. As a teen I was more concearned about boys/clothes than the legality of abortion until I was forced to abort. It was that and further research that has formed my current opinion on abortion. Do you support restricting it in anyway? Do you at least support parental consent/notification? If a girl feels that she cant got to her parents there are deep issues there than just her having an abortion.

reply from: Shenanigans

Rosalie, if your kids ever asked you "Mummy, if you didn't want me, would you have had an aboriton and kill me?"
Would you say "yes"?

reply from: Rosalie

You admit yourself that you have been TAUGHT about it being wrong. I don't want my kids to be TAUGHT about it being wrong or right. I want them to consider EVERYTHING - not JUST the baby, not JUST the woman - everything, because it's all connected, and then make a decision.
I have been concerned about abortion very early because I would read a lot, I was rather popular and many people considered my influential in high school and I wanted to know what I really believe first. I knew a lot about abortion long before I even had sex for the first time.
I absolutely do not support parental consent/notifications because if the parent is a good parent, the child will come to them anyway. If she doesn't, then there are HUGE issues. She is afraid to go to them FOR A REASON. If the parents are fanatical *****s who will disown their daughter and kick her out if she gets pregnant or force her to have an abortion/continue the pregnancy against her will, then the girl shouldn't be obligated by law to tell them because it would mean perpetuating abuse against her.
As for restrictions - I would support delivery at the point when the fetus is capable of surviving with some help and when it is reasonable that the baby will be actually capable of living independently without any major handicap, then it should be preferable to abortion.
It is a fact that the woman's body is always her body and she has the right not to continue a pregnancy against her will. But when the fetus has a good shot at surviving and not being a vegetable for the rest of its 'life', then inducing birth is the better option.

reply from: Rosalie

Yes. That's what my mom said and I'm glad she did. I'm so glad she was never forced to remain pregnant against her will. I'm glad and proud of being chosen.
I am proud that I was wanted and that all my children will always be wanted.
I would have to hate myself if I had to tell my child "Well, I didn't want you, I never loved you, never wanted you, but I had you out of obligation." That's disgusting. Being wanted, however, is the most beautiful thing.

reply from: scopia19822

"I absolutely do not support parental consent/notifications because if the parent is a good parent, the child will come to them anyway."
I have to strongly disagree, a minor has to have parental consent in all other medical matters and abortion should also be one of them. And just because a parent is a good parent still does not mean that the child will always come to them. My son cant get an asprin from the school nurse without written persmission a child sure as hell doesnt need an abortion without parental consent. Also if the girl is so afraid of her parents she can get a judicial bypass from a judge, every state has this process. What if the girl had complications because of the abortion and her parents took her to the hospital, but because they did not know she aborted they could not give the doctor all of the accurate information he/she would need to treat her and she could die.

reply from: scopia19822

"ou admit yourself that you have been TAUGHT about it being wrong. I don't want my kids to be TAUGHT about it being wrong or right. I want them to consider EVERYTHING - not JUST the baby, not JUST the woman - everything, because it's all connected, and then make a decision."
Its the duty of parents to teach their kids right from wrong and that can include abortion, sex etc. I do assume you are teaching your daughter right from wrong, what makes teaching the morality of abortion any different.

reply from: scopia19822

"Rosalie, if your kids ever asked you "Mummy, if you didn't want me, would you have had an aboriton and kill me?"
Ro said yes, isnt that a nice way to make your child feel all nice warm and fuzzy inside. My mom would have aborted me if she hadnt been so stoned on coke, she found out at 6 months and by that time it was too late unde the law and when I came to live with her as a teen she let me know it too.

reply from: scopia19822

"Rosalie, if your kids ever asked you "Mummy, if you didn't want me, would you have had an aboriton and kill me?"
Ro said yes, isnt that a nice way to make your child feel all nice warm and fuzzy inside. My mom would have aborted me if she hadnt been so stoned on coke, she found out at 6 months and by that time it was too late unde the law and when I came to live with her as a teen she let me know it too.

reply from: Rosalie

So? Disagree all you want. If you are doing your job as a parent right, your child will trust you and even though it's a huge problem, she will come to you on her own. Because she'll know that you'll be here for her, that you wouldn't kick her out or force her to do anything she wouldn't like.
If all you work with are threats, ultimatums and hatred, if all you wanna create is your mini-me that has to follow every single belief of yours and if they don't, there's a huge problem, then you cannot reasonably expect that they will confide in you, that they will trust you.
Sure it is a duty of a parent. But there are more parenting styles. I also happen to strongly believe that a child should not be forced into following the parents' religion, that they should be given comprehensive information and be educated about various religions before they make their own choice for themselves.
Which, again, is something on which you'll disagree with me - and that only proves my point that there are many different ways to bring up a child and none of them is inherently wrong.
Of course it is! It absolutely made me feel warm and fuzzy inside. It would make me feel dead inside if I heard "I never wanted to have you in the first place, I only had you because I was forced to." Maybe that's acceptable to you but it's absolutely disgusting and unacceptable to me.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, I've heard parents say "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out". Real compassion, just like a proabort feels when they kill their baby, I'm sure.

reply from: scopia19822

"So? Disagree all you want. If you are doing your job as a parent right, your child will trust you and even though it's a huge problem, she will come to you on her own. Because she'll know that you'll be here for her, that you wouldn't kick her out or force her to do anything she wouldn't like. "
It does not always work that way. Many a teen girl who had supportive loving parents were still scared to approach them because of the nature of the problem, despite being reassured that they would be there for them no matter what. So why not do away with other laws that require a parent to give consent before a medical treatment could be given. Why is a minor cant get Asprin from the school nurse without parental consent, yet they all of a sudden are "mature" enough to get an abortion? Does that seem logically to you?

reply from: yoda

It does when you realize that the proaborts, despite all their propaganda, do not want "fewer" abortions. They want MORE.

reply from: scopia19822

The more the merrier.

reply from: yoda

Yep, they laugh about baby slaughter all the time. They think it's hilarious.

reply from: lukesmom

That has to be the saddest, most pathetic and most selfish statement I have ever heard in my 50 yrs of life. It also explains alot about you. As one of 7 sibs and as a mother, I am so sorry you were never allowed the sibling you were given. The fact that you don't even realize the horror of your statement is probably the most pathetic thing of all.

reply from: scopia19822

That has to be the saddest, most pathetic and most selfish statement I have ever heard in my 50 yrs of life. It also explains alot about you. As one of 7 sibs and as a mother, I am so sorry you were never allowed the sibling you were given. The fact that you don't even realize the horror of your statement is probably the most pathetic thing of all.
Sue, it does make one sad but would you really expect any different from a hard hearted person? Ros would be the daughter my mom would have loved to have. My sister is very proabortion, feminist etc and its sad, she just a product of what our mother taught her. I thank God everyday that my mom did not find out she was pregnant with me until 6 months by then under VA law it was too late for her to abort. I am so glad that I was raised by an aunt and uncle who loved as their own. My aunt lost a baby boy named Ian to Sids 6 months before I was born, I can only imagine the agony she went through as she flew up here to take me back home. She could not stand being around babies or pregnant women yet she still took me in and when I was in the NICU because of complications I developed after she got me and even though the prognosis did not look good she still stayed with me 24/7. She did it because she felt it was her duty and obligation to care for me instead of me being placed in foster care. Im sure it wanst easy for her being around a drug addicted newborn, so soon after losing her own baby. That is an example of real love, she could have chose to turn the other way, instead she chose to do the right thing. So I guess I can say I was "chosen" as well even though the woman who bore did not want me.

reply from: lukesmom

I have never said she was a "stupid butt nugget". I wouldn't know how stupid she is but if you want to say that about her, go for it.

reply from: scopia19822

I have never said she was a "stupid butt nugget". I wouldn't know how stupid she is but if you want to say that about her, go for it.
Im not going to call her a butt nugget, but some of the arguements are far from logical. Any one who isnt a feminist or believes in abortion is a misogynist.

reply from: lukesmom

That has to be the saddest, most pathetic and most selfish statement I have ever heard in my 50 yrs of life. It also explains alot about you. As one of 7 sibs and as a mother, I am so sorry you were never allowed the sibling you were given. The fact that you don't even realize the horror of your statement is probably the most pathetic thing of all.
Sue, it does make one sad but would you really expect any different from a hard hearted person? Ros would be the daughter my mom would have loved to have. My sister is very proabortion, feminist etc and its sad, she just a product of what our mother taught her. I thank God everyday that my mom did not find out she was pregnant with me until 6 months by then under VA law it was too late for her to abort. I am so glad that I was raised by an aunt and uncle who loved as their own. My aunt lost a baby boy named Ian to Sids 6 months before I was born, I can only imagine the agony she went through as she flew up here to take me back home. She could not stand being around babies or pregnant women yet she still took me in and when I was in the NICU because of complications I developed after she got me and even though the prognosis did not look good she still stayed with me 24/7. She did it because she felt it was her duty and obligation to care for me instead of me being placed in foster care. Im sure it wanst easy for her being around a drug addicted newborn, so soon after losing her own baby. That is an example of real love, she could have chose to turn the other way, instead she chose to do the right thing. So I guess I can say I was "chosen" as well even though the woman who bore did not want me.
Scop, you were/are as deserving of life as Roz and as Roz's sibling. Funny, proaborts would have "unwanted" children like you living in supreme misery, wishing you were actually dead. Your aunt was a true human being and acted as such. She understood the value of all human life and loved you dispite the "inconvenience" to her. She was a mother. The woman who gave birth to you was not.

reply from: scopia19822

Well all of us "unplanned/unwanted" children which I daresay is most of the population are here and were not going on anywhere. My mom and I have no relationship, I have no love for the woman, mainly not because of what she said to me or how she treated me, but because of what she did to my aunt. My aunt was diagnosed with Leukemia and my mom went through the process to be tested as a match for a possible bone marrow transplant. You as a nurse know that is a very invasive procedure. When it came out that my mom matched her sister, she refused to donate her bone marrow that might have saved my aunts life. She was under no legal obligation of course, but morally it would have been the right thing to do. If she didnt want to donate than she should have not been tested in the first place. I blame her for my aunts death, even if the cancer may have eventually killed her at least my mother could have given her a chance. Why go through the testing just to say no? How can anyone do that to their own sister, its twisted.

reply from: Rosalie

It often works like that. A scared teenager will always have a problem telling her mom of her pregnancy but she is more likely to do it if she is not afraid.
Most of the time, parents who require the law are parents who would want to force the girl into making a reproductive choice she doesn't want to make and that's just not right.
Teen or not, the reproductive choice is all hers. She needs support, not to be forced to have an abortion or continue a pregnancy against her will. Such law could so easily turn against the poor girl and I'll never support that.
I don't agree with how things are. I think if a nurse is aware of the teen's allergies and his her or health condition, she should be allowed to give the child aspirin. It works in other countries around the world.
You're lying but then again you are 'pro-life' so a lie is something that comes to you naturally.
You obviously don't understand a thing. I pity you for a lot of things you had done, too, except I'm not going to sink as low as you just did. Enjoy it down there. You won't be alone. Everything about you is disgusting.
What kind of a 'person' are you? How can anyone like you even still exist?
You never listen, you have no intention to learn about someone, all you care about is being able to spread your stupid lies.
Some of the things you have said in this post and some others crossed the line in every way imaginable but you are so warped and so corrupt that you don't even realize that.
You have called me a butt nuggett about 200 times in the past few weeks. Stop lying.
You don't understand nor you have any desire to understand the word feminist. Or maybe you are just too stupid to udnerstand that.
And yes, being 'pro-life' does make you a misogynist.
I didn't say anything about my siblings? Are you making things up again? Oh I forgot, you know virtually nothing about me but you still like to lie about me.
I have explained this very thing to you at least 5 times. You don't listen. You don't want to. You'd have to challenge your opinion and you can't have that. Stay in your narrow-minded, stupid little mind. Lying and insults is all you can master, just like your fellow bullies. I pity you.
Well, I guess this exchange between LM and Scopia clearly illustrates what kind of sick bastards most pro-lifers are.


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