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changed to passify the cry baby girliy feelings of ineffectual do nothings...

by: faithman

http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby12.html

reply from: faithman

http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby12.html

reply from: scopia19822

"I know he was trying to kill his wife, How's that going?"
That was very uncalled for Spinny. Fman may be a cantankerous downright foul sometimes, but he has took care of his wife during her battle with cancer . Some men would have just tucked tail and ran out of fear and cowardness.

reply from: scopia19822

"Yeah, by taking her to some quack-assed nutritionist/chiropractor instead of a physician.
He's a killer."
Sometimes these alternative treatments work, shes now in remission if I remember correctly. I lost an aunt to leukemia, my maternal grandmother to colon cancer both recieved the standard rounds of radiation/chemo and and while it did prolong their lives, especially my grandmother's quality of life sucked. She lost so much weight and was so sick all of the time. If covential treatment fails, what is wrong with seeking alternative treatments? Im not saying dont go to a doctor, but sometimes the alternative/natural practioners treatments actually work. I have a thick book of home remedies that I use when Im sick instead of going to the doctor, as I cant afford to see one. I use them on my son as well instead of taking him to the doctor every single time he has a fever/cold. If hes badly sick or hurt I will take him to the doc, but not for every single ailment. I also take it your opinions of midwives are low as well. Eventaully I would like to go back to school and become a midwife. I want to be a lay midwife, not a CNM. My paternal great grandmother was a midwife and delievered many babies in her day. In those days often in the "hollers" of Appalachia the doc would come to the house and deliever the child and sometimes if something went wrong he would call on her to assist him.

reply from: faithman

Just like the slanderous killer to get it wrong. We did both standard, and alternative. The alternative worked so well, that she is now working with standard medical doctors in helping people survive chemo. How is it that I was trying to kill my wife? Scopia is correct. Many leave when this kind of illness hits. I don't consider myself particularly brave. It is just what I signed up for when I said "I do, for better or worse". When we got the news, I found a private place, had my cry, wiped away my tears, and set my face like flint for the fight. You don't abandon loved ones when they need you most, and you will do everything you can to save their life. If that makes me a "killer" then guilty as charged.

reply from: yoda

But notice how she completely changed the subject?

reply from: faithman

http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby12.html

reply from: yoda

They say you are known by the company you keep....
Btw, fix that link....

reply from: carolemarie

I don't think women who are raped should get abortions.
I think that they have the right to decide what they are going to do, not you, not me.

reply from: ChristianLott2

but you would 'counsel' a young girl to get an abortion because in your own words:

reply from: faithman

http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby12.html

reply from: carolemarie

the reason I posted those questions CL2, is because the entire family needs to be counseling and all these things will come up questions you will not answer because you don't have any reasonable solution.
If the parents are prolife the same issues come up. The person who needs facts and support is the 5th grade girl you don't care about at all.
If she gets counseling, she might be willing to have the baby. But her family will need counseling too because this effects the whole family.
I support the option of abortion in these extreme cases. You don't make law out of hard cases. That is why the exceptions will help us outlaw the other 98 percent of elective abortions. I would rather save the majority of babies, then let them all die till I get a perfect bill. The best situation would be a ban on all abortions, except rape incest and life of mother. Those choices would be up to the individuals involved.

reply from: faithman

In the killers own words.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yet these 'extreme cases' end healthy pregnancies by murdering innocent babies.
The belief that abortion is sometimes a 'good thing' is a pro abortion position.

reply from: scopia19822

CM these are human lives, not "exceptions".

reply from: micah

hahahaha
Hey do you think in the afterlife that Yodavader's dead fetus makes fun of CarolMarie's dead fetuses?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Of course. The question here is:
Is cm pro life?

reply from: scopia19822

"Of course. The question here is:
Is cm pro life?"
I would call her prochoice with exceptions. She opposses the majority of abortions and does what she can to help women choose life. I dont agree with her, however I still dont condone the treatment she has endured and will continue to endure.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Don't you find it offensive that she wants us to believe her pro abortion position is pro life?
It's the deception we are outraged about.

reply from: scopia19822

"Don't you find it offensive that she wants us to believe her pro abortion position is pro life?
It's the deception we are outraged about."
I dont think she is out to delieberatly decieve anyone. She honestly believes shes prolife and I can understand why she believes it. She is actually out there doing what she can to convince women to choose life by offering resources so they wont think that abortion is there only option. Her deeds are "prolife", however I still disagree with her on the exceptions. What have you done to help women choose life lately, have you stood outside a clinic offering resources, referrals and adoption information? Volunteered at a local CPC?

reply from: ChristianLott2

of course she is. she continues to claim she's pro life. we've already had several polls about this.
How do you know her deeds are pro life? She encourages abortion for rape and young girls. Do you actually think she's NOT counseling those girls to abort?
Is this how you really think we're going to end abortion, one person at a time?
Imo you're wrong. It also has nothing to do with cm's pro abortion lying scheme.

reply from: scopia19822

"Is this how you really think we're going to end abortion, one person at a time?"
IF I can help save one baby at a time than I have done a good thing. So its all or nothing with you? If we cant save all of the babies, Im not going to do anything to save any of them.? Pathetic.

reply from: faithman

We must save as many as we can On our way to saving them all.

reply from: ChristianLott2

No, but you've implied that cm's efforts are better and more worthy than mine. You are a liar and a defender of a murderer.

reply from: carolemarie

I am prolife but I have enough compassion for women and children to let the victims of crime and those who's lives are on the line make their own choices.
I do believe with counseling most crime victims would choose life. Which is why I want to see them and their families receive counseling.

reply from: faithman

Killer "compassion" is not pro-life except to a self deluded killer.

reply from: ChristianLott2

you mean like this:
and this:
yeah, I'm keeping a file on you killer.

reply from: carolemarie

Your not even prolife, you support killing abortion providers! You believe in killing born people, so basically you are okay with killing as long as you decide who gets to die...

reply from: ChristianLott2

Do I believe abortionist murderers deserve the death penalty - yes. Just like all other mass murderers.
You defend them, and you are no better.

reply from: faithman

No that is your game. I suport stopping murderers. It is legal in all 50 states to protect innocent born life with force if nessisary. M

reply from: carolemarie

it isn't legal to support killing dr.'s. there is no justification for a Christian to support murder.

reply from: carolemarie

Don't you find it offensive that she wants us to believe her pro abortion position is pro life?
It's the deception we are outraged about.
No scopia,, I am prolife with exceptions. I am against 98% of all abortions, and I would allow the other 2% to decided for themselves.

reply from: ChristianLott2

if the doctor is a mass murderer, that 'dr' deserves the death penalty.

reply from: ChristianLott2

That 2% is 110 a day and 40,150 murdered babies a year.
You're still a butcher.

reply from: carolemarie

Abortion is legal...killing drs is not.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Lying is lying and you need to stop.

reply from: carolemarie

I am not lying I am prolife with the 3 exceptions. Life of mom, rape and incest.
Too bad if you don't like it.

reply from: ChristianLott2

You are not pro life.

reply from: faithman

http://www.abortionno.org/

reply from: carolemarie

Yes, I had abortions many years ago. Thank you for reminding me because I was in such danger of forgetting that

reply from: faithman

Which makes you a baby killer.

reply from: carolemarie

I don't think so, you get points for a nice try at a smear however.
Perhaps ex- or former to preface the insult would be more accurate...

reply from: ChristianLott2

Obviously you don't know what you did because you still support the elective murder of healthy babies for healthy mothers. butcher.

reply from: SPRINGHEELJACK

The bully, conspicuous in his tormenting of others, victimizes himself through a lifelong pattern of self-defeating aggression and the failures that grow out of it, new studies reveal.
Rapidly accumulating research on the psychology of bullies also shows that the belligerence of these youngsters arises not just from nastiness, but also from a perceptual bias that leads them to see - and retaliate against - threats where none exist.
''Bullies see the world with a paranoid's eye,'' said Kenneth Dodge, a psychologist at Vanderbilt University. ''They feel justified in retaliating for what are actually imaginary harms.''
With the growing understanding of what makes a bully, and the realization that bullying may blight a child's entire life, psychologists are trying new tactics to help youthful tyrants change their ways before it is too late.
Of course, rough-and-tumble aggression is typical of normal children, particularly boys. The bully is set apart by his quickness to start fights, to use force to get his way and his general belligerence. Only a small fraction of boys, those who are extremely aggressive, are thought to fall into this category.
Because girls by and large are less physically aggressive than boys, they do not seem to be at risk for the long-term problems that befall bullies. But some of the most aggressive girls, as adults, become the mothers of bullies. Researchers do not yet know whether that is a result of inherited factors or of such things as the severity with which they punish their children.
The recent work adds a new twist to older theories about the roots of human aggression. While Freud saw aggression as a basic human drive that had to be channeled by the controls of the ego and superego, many psychologists now feel aggression stems from faulty thinking and a penchant for retaliation that verges on the paranoid.
Some current findings are consistent with such older views as the idea, inspired by the work of Alfred Adler, that the bully is compensating for deep feelings of inferiority.
''We find that bullies have a strong need to control others,'' said John Lochman, a psychologist at Duke University Medical School. ''Their need to be dominant masks an underlying fear that they are not in control, and they mask the sense of inadequacy by being a bully.''
Treatment does not challenge those underlying feelings but rather tries to use them constructively.
''We tell the boys that if another kid gets them so mad they blow up, then the kid is controlling them,'' said Dr. Lochman. ''We tell them they can win by not getting mad.''
Even though this approach may not deal with the child's deeper troubles, it seems to work, at least in improving relationships at school, according to Dr. Lochman. Some psychologists believe that such problems as the bully's troubles with others can often be remedied with minor intervention, while by adulthood those same patterns require intensive therapy.
The new intervention programs focus on younger children, from 4 years of age to 10. ''It's harder and harder for kids to change once the pattern is set and time goes on,'' said Leonard Eron, a psychologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Dr. Eron published an article on the lifelong patterns of bullies in the January issue of The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
The bully's aggression is his undoing, Dr. Eron has found. It not only makes him a social outcast, but also interferes with learning; teachers tend to loathe such troublemakers.
In a 22-year-study, done with Rowell Huesmann and other colleagues, Dr. Eron tracked 870 children from Columbia County, N.Y., from the time they were 8 until they were 30.
The study found that though bullies do not seem to have lower intelligence than other children, as adults they score less well on tests of intellectual achievement, evidently reflecting the difficulties they had in school. They also have more run-ins with the law and less desirable jobs than do their more peaceable peers.

reply from: ChristianLott2

this is good advice. you should take it.

reply from: SPRINGHEELJACK

DEFINITON BULLY:
A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.
THE BULLIES ON THIS BOARD MAKE IT STINK LIKE POOP!

reply from: 4given

Relax with a whine spritzer faramir. Put some aromatherapy candles going and do your best lotus pose.

reply from: SPRINGHEELJACK

YOU ARE A BULLY ENABLER!

reply from: 4given

And you need to take your prozac.
I don't agree with or promote bullying of the born or unborn.

reply from: SPRINGHEELJACK

Which makes you a baby killer.
AND YOU ARE A SCUM SUCKING LOW LIFE COWARD WHO EXPLOITS AND HIDES BEHIND DECEASED BABIES AS AN EXCUSE TO DEGRADE OTHERS.

reply from: scopia19822

"No scopia,, I am prolife with exceptions. I am against 98% of all abortions, and I would allow the other 2% to decided for themselves."
I disagree with you CM. Those other 2% are human beings entitled to the right to life just like the other 98%. Could you honestly look into the eyes of a person concieved out of rape and tell them that you support the right to abortion in rape/incest? Do you realize how dehumanizing that is? I cant call myself prolife and support abortion under any circumstances. My argument is with your stance on the issue not you as a person. You do alot more "prolife" work than any of these haters and certainlty dont deserve the abuse you have taken.

reply from: churchmouse

I dissagee Carole. The baby is still a life and deserves a chance to live. If a women who was raped aborted, she not only would live with the rape as one act of violence, but would also inflict violence herself on her child. It matters not that the child was concieved of rape......abortion should not be legal in this case.
And its a child of God the same as a baby that was concieved out of love.
So instead of trying to convince carole that she is wrong......the Kindergarten class goes after her again....of course in Christian love.
LOL
faithman said,
So how many people have you killed? Or arent you that passionate about the womb child faithman?
How many abortionists have you killed? injured? How any woman have you slapped around that have had abortions?
Hey Lott.....your not really pro-life. Faithman believes in violence that killing is the answer. And if you dont follow suit, you will become a faux lifer. LOL

reply from: Teresa18

hahahaha
It's sure funny to make fun of dead children.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8QBk-SgADY&feature=PlayList&p=04EF336B4C325FF1&index=1&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL

reply from: faithman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8QBk-SgADY&feature=PlayList&p=04EF336B4C325FF1&index=1&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL
What a wonderful tool for a real pro-lifer. It ain't about "what if's", it is about "what is". Either a womb child is a fellow person, or they are not. I say they are. Only a heartless monster would ignore their humanity with "what if" excuses. Killing one innocent person, even though you may have saved millions, makes you a murderer.

reply from: faithman

Which makes you a baby killer.
AND YOU ARE A SCUM SUCKING LOW LIFE COWARD WHO EXPLOITS AND HIDES BEHIND DECEASED BABIES AS AN EXCUSE TO DEGRADE OTHERS.
...and I care what a little punk like you thinks how? And if you are going to address me, at least get it right. I don't hide behind the dead ones, I advocate for the ones yet to be killed.

reply from: micah

So you don't believe they come back to life in an afterlife?
hahahaha
It's sure funny to make fun of dead children.

reply from: faithman

hahahaha
It's sure funny to make fun of dead children.
Our hope resides in the here after. Our duty is in the here and now. Our hope is for eternal rest to the slaughtered innocents. It is our job to stop the slaughter in this temporal world.

reply from: carolemarie

Rape, incest and your life are legimate exceptions. They are not requirements, you don't have to choose abortion, you can choose life, and if you get good counseling you probably will choose life. But it is allowable to defend your life. If you are willing to let women defend their lives, why not rape and incest? The baby is still a baby in all three exceptions. If you are okay with the mother life, then you accept exceptions, the difference is you accept one exception. I accept the other two as legit.

reply from: faithman

It is never prolife to intentionally kill a preborn child, no matter how many times an unrepentant killers posts to the contrary. Selfjustified murder is not pro-life, and cheap grace is not the gospel.

reply from: carolemarie

Thank God I am not a Calvinist.

reply from: faithman

What? The god of this world who is obviously your "father"? Cheap grace is not the gospel. And "exceptions" is not pro-life. Repent and be converted.

reply from: carolemarie

Calvinism is a theologica position that I think is in error.
I know God.

reply from: faithman

Who's talking about Calvanism? Nice try at a diversion though. Excuses and exceptions is not pro-life, and cheap grace is not the gospel.

reply from: carolemarie

I am prolife, and I dont believe in cheap grace. It cost Jesus everything to redeem us.
All we have to do is believe and ask Jesus to come into our hearts. He does it all for us. Salvation is a free gift that He doesn't take back! Grace is the power to live in relationship with Him

reply from: faithman

Then should we continue in sin that grace may abound, GOD FORBID. Your cheap grace says you can still commit the sin of child killing if the situation is right. That most assuredly is cheap grace. It is obvious you don't know a thing about grace.

reply from: carolemarie

Elective abortion is murder...no doubt.
It is a different thing to save the live of the mother. One life isn't more precious. Both are equal in value. But in this situtation women have to decide to choose to die or choose to live. Nobody gets to decide that for you....and I think God would call that decision moral and it would be fine. The intent isn't to kill the baby, the intent is to live.

reply from: faithman

And those who elect to do it are murderers. If in the process of saving mom, the child dies is one thing. To purposely kill the child is another. Abortion is not a nessisary option. It is pre-meditated distruction of womb life. Refer back to 3 that are gone at your hand.

reply from: carolemarie

To save your life, you are not a murderer. That is moral. God doesn't allow every life to continue. We have miscarriges, which are sad, but it isn't immoral that God allows that to happen...
Born life is just as important as unborn life. Which is why it is wrong to kill abortion providers.

reply from: faithman

It is never right to purposely kill an INNOCENT LIFE. You do not place the same importance on INNOCENT WOMB LIFE, as you do INNOCENT BORN LIFE. That is patently obvious with your last statment. If both lives are equal, then both deserve the same degree of protection. If force is allowed to protect the born person, then the same should be so for the pre-born person. Abortion providers are not innocent. If its just to stop the killer of a 2 year old born peerson, then it is just to use what ever force nessisary to stop an abortionist. I understand why your little baby killing mind can not rap intself around that truth. You want your assasin around to take care of your "exceptions".

reply from: carolemarie

The only reason the mom life is in danger is because of the baby. The ending of the life of the baby is protecting your life, not killing.
God doesn't require women to die for the fetus to live.
And I will never agree with killing people who are born and doing legal things. That is evil as well.

reply from: Teresa18

I do, but that still doesn't make it right to make fun of the deaths of children, especially those that would likely be alive today if not deliberately killed.

reply from: faithman

SSSSSOOOOOO if it was legal to kill a 2 year old, you would be OK with it, and you would be against using force to stop it just because it wouldn't be legal? Then you think all those who illegally resisted nazi occupation in the french under ground we evil doers for using force to free themselves? It was against the law of those in power to do so. Then you need to leave america, because it was formed by those who over thru the government with force, which was against the law. If what you say is true, then it is never right to throw off oppression by force if the oppressors own the government, and say it is illegal. Sorry founding fathers, killercarole says your evil.

reply from: carolemarie

There is a difference in war and shooting down an unarmed man

reply from: faithman

America declared an unjust war against the womb child, and the abortionist is armed with intent and tools to carry it out. I am for warning them to stop. But I can not condemn those who act like the womb child deserves the same protection as the born child. The abortionist is not innocent, and they know that what they do is murderer for hire.

reply from: carolemarie

There is a big hole in your logic.

reply from: faithman

Which is what? Your abortion stake in the heart of life? Your constant devaluing of the pre-born? You put all innocent life at stake with your "logic". I say all innocent life needs to be protected from evil aggression with what ever force is nessisary to get the job done. The only hole here is the one in your head that leaked out your brain. Maybe the abortionist slipped a little when he helped you wage war on your womb children?

reply from: carolemarie

I wish I had never chose abortion. But I did.
Would it be to hard to try and stay on the topic of the thread?

reply from: faithman

That is exactly what I have been doing. You are the one who wants to hop down borthead bunny trails to divert attention.

reply from: carolemarie

I don't wish to discuss the topic of this thread. So I will not post in this category. I forgot it was to insult me...

reply from: faithman

Actually it is to expose your pro-death positions. MISSION ACOMPLISHED!!! If you feel insulted, thats your problem.

reply from: carolemarie

I am prolife...and you are just spiteful.

reply from: faithman

Funny comming from one who spitefully killed her children, uses dehumanizing terms like fetus, and hasn't seen a child of a rapist she wouldn't want to kill. You are anything but pro-life.

reply from: yoda

If her attitude towards babies of rape is "prolife", then I want nothing to do with being prolife.....

reply from: churchmouse

carole said,

I'll second that carole. I am NOT a Calvanist either.
faithman said,
And you dont know a thing about love....you concentrate on hating people.
So you dont believe in abortion to save the mothers life.
yoda I hate to tell ya but you are not pro-life because you beleive in abortion to save the mothers life. Faithman does not. So join the group.
Why dont you and faithman debate that one, would love to see you go at it. Of course that wont happen, you dont call eachother on anything. Awe

reply from: yoda

How can rape save a mother's life?
Are you not getting enough sleep lately?

reply from: faithman

Abortion, the purposely killing a child, is never a nessesity. Every effort should be taken to save both. If the child is lost in an attempt to save mom, it is very regrettable, but a doctor should never be given to purposly kill a womb child. That slimee slope is what got us here in the first place.

reply from: carolemarie

I am for the life of the mother exception. We have the right to defend our lives.

reply from: yoda

Hey FMan, I didn't know that rape could save anyone's life, did you?

reply from: faithman

WOW!!! We need to let all them women saving heroes out of jail.

reply from: yoda

And how about civic awards, and medals and such?

reply from: ChristianLott2

I though cm just said yesterday that she's now against rape abortions. Did I miss something?

reply from: yoda

I don't know, I'm still looking for that statement.
On the other hand, churchmouse says that rape can save a woman's life.
Did you know that?

reply from: ChristianLott2

I don't know, I'm still looking for that statement.
cm posted:
I though mc3 told her to shut up?

reply from: Yuuki

You also missed the reply where she said the video made her cry, and she realised that it doesn't matter if the child is conceived in rape or not. So you've been spiteful for several pages no for no reason.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, but that's not a clear statement..... that's just the expression of a feeling while watching a video.... I'm waiting for an actual statement.
Nah, Mark is way too diplomatic to do that..........

reply from: faithman

Tea and chocolates?!!!!

reply from: ChristianLott2

Nah, Mark is way too diplomatic to do that..........
I thought I told her to shut up?

reply from: yoda

Perfect!
All rapists get tea and chocolates now!!

reply from: yoda

When did she ever do what you told her to do?

reply from: faithman

Perfect!
All rapists get tea and chocolates now!!
WELL? they are saving women's lives!!! they should be compinsated don't you think? A little refreshment between apointments is a good thing, Right?

reply from: ChristianLott2

So you guys believe rape to save a mother's life??
Tea and chocolates all around!!

reply from: yoda

WELL? they are saving women's lives!!! they should be compinsated don't you think? A little refreshment between apointments is a good thing, Right?
Absolutely!! Hey, rape doesn't kill women like abortion does, so if getting an abortion earns you tea and chocolates, surely rape does too!!
Reward those life saving rapists!!

reply from: yoda

I'll buy the first round!!

reply from: scopia19822

"I am for the life of the mother exception. We have the right to defend our lives."
Are you aware that there are many treatment options out there to save both these days? The only time a pregnancy must be ended under this clause is a tubal or if some trauma has caused severe damage/bleeding. In the case of a 1st trimester the baby most likely is dead from the trauma or will be soon, the pregnancy will not be able to continue and the child has to be removed. If the child is viable efforts must be made to save that child, if it dies anyway than the doctors have done all they can do, no wrong/evil has been committed. To delieberatly sacrifice one to save the other is an intrinsic evil, ask any Catholic priest on this matter, who must be saved , he well tell you both.

reply from: carolemarie

A priest who isn't married, has no wife or child, really shouldn't have an opinion on what to do. It is out of his area of expertise.
If you need medical treatment you are allowed to get it, such as chemo, you don't have to wait and delay treatment. You could, but you don't have to. If your treatment would hurt the child, you still get to decide if you want it or not.
Protecting your life and health are perfectly valid reasons to abort.

reply from: yoda

Wow, carole, you've adopted yet another proabort type argument... it goes like this: "If you can't get pregnant, you should not have an opinion on abortion". Do you agree with that one too?
"Health"?
You mean like when a woman goes in for a second tri abortion, and the doctor says "I can't do that unless there is a threat to your mental health". And then he winks at her at says "So, are you having suicidal thoughts, maybe?"
Is that your "health exception", Carole?

reply from: scopia19822

"A priest who isn't married, has no wife or child, really shouldn't have an opinion on what to do. It is out of his area of expertise."
Priest dont act as individuals they act on what the Church teaches on the matter. It doesnt matter if its a married deacon, celibate priests, celibate lay person, a monk or a nun the teaching is the same and Universal.

reply from: carolemarie

The church allows for abortion in that case, and they allow the husband and wife to make it. Some priests allow the use of bc, and don't consider it a sin.

reply from: snapdragon

Aww that's cute. Where can I get one?

reply from: scopia19822

"The church allows for abortion in that case, and they allow the husband and wife to make it. Some priests allow the use of bc, and don't consider it a sin."
If a priest advocates the use of BC and doesnt consider it a sin is not teaching what the Church teaches and needs to be defrocked. He has no business being in the clergy. Abortion isnt allowed under any circumstances and doesnt allow the husband/wife to decide. Have you forgotten what the Church teaches on these issue? Removing a tubal pregnancy isnt a sin, their is no way the child can survive. Its acceptable to remove a dead child or induce early labor but every effort must be made to safe both, deliebertaly sacrificing one to save the other isnt acceptable.

reply from: GratiaPlena

Yes, for certain health issues like endometriosis, not as a contraceptive.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Which case? Which church?

reply from: nancyu

Perfect!
All rapists get tea and chocolates now!!
How great is that? The rapist is the "second victim" of rape, you know.

reply from: faithman

Perfect!
All rapists get tea and chocolates now!!
How great is that? The rapist is the "second victim" of rape, you know.
Only if you put em in jail. Then you are just being mean and hatful.

reply from: nancyu

RLALAMHOMAFLLMHO!
Holy...that's funny...

reply from: nancyu

The church allows for abortion in that case, and they allow the husband and wife to make it. Some priests allow the use of bc, and don't consider it a sin.
Cm, is a fetus is a parasite? (I can help you come up with more great pro abort arguments if you want, I pretty much know em all by heart.)

reply from: Yuuki

AND THIS TOPIC ISN'T!?!?!??!?! This topic is horrific to say the least.

reply from: faithman

AND THIS TOPIC ISN'T!?!?!??!?! This topic is horrific to say the least.
Agreed!!!! What the killer did was horrific indeed.

reply from: Yuuki

AND THIS TOPIC ISN'T!?!?!??!?! This topic is horrific to say the least.
Agreed!!!! What the killer did was horrific indeed.
No, I think its horrific that you posted this topic just to hurt Carole.

reply from: carolemarie

Perfect!
All rapists get tea and chocolates now!!
How great is that? The rapist is the "second victim" of rape, you know.
Only if you put em in jail. Then you are just being mean and hatful.
Rape isn't funny and churchmouse mistyped...but only people who hate women would enjoy rape jokes...

reply from: ChristianLott2

you heard that churchmouse? you're a woman hater now.

reply from: churchmouse

ha ha Thanks carole......boy that was a bad typo.
You had my back thanks.

reply from: scopia19822

"Yes, for certain health issues like endometriosis, not as a contraceptive."
I take the Pill for dysfunctional uterine bleeding, but the Church doesnt allow elective abortion under any circumstances.

reply from: yoda

Exactly! So they deserve tea and chocolates too!

reply from: yoda

Neither is abortion.
So if you give tea and chocolates to women who abort, why not give them to men who rape?
Isn't abortion worse than rape? Don't you believe in kindness to those who do evil things?

reply from: Yuuki

I don't think it's elecitive abortion though; it's not even elective failing-to-allow-implantation. Because you're not purposely preventing from implanting; that's not the main function of the medicine. Just like I'm not purposely making myself vomit if I take Vicodin. I'm intending to get rid of my pain, not make myself puke.
And yes, I do actually have a prescription for Vicodin. XD I feel so cool, just like House haha.

reply from: faithman

I don't think it's elecitive abortion though; it's not even elective failing-to-allow-implantation. Because you're not purposely preventing from implanting; that's not the main function of the medicine. Just like I'm not purposely making myself vomit if I take Vicodin. I'm intending to get rid of my pain, not make myself puke.
And yes, I do actually have a prescription for Vicodin. XD I feel so cool, just like House haha.
Would explain some of your brain dead posts.

reply from: Yuuki

I don't think it's elecitive abortion though; it's not even elective failing-to-allow-implantation. Because you're not purposely preventing from implanting; that's not the main function of the medicine. Just like I'm not purposely making myself vomit if I take Vicodin. I'm intending to get rid of my pain, not make myself puke.
And yes, I do actually have a prescription for Vicodin. XD I feel so cool, just like House haha.
Would explain some of your brain dead posts.
Except for the fact that I just got the prescription on Monday...
and haven't taken a single one.

reply from: yoda

If one of the side effects of a medicine is that it sometimes kills unborn babies, and you take it when you know you might be pregnant, is that not "purposeful"?

reply from: scopia19822

"If one of the side effects of a medicine is that it sometimes kills unborn babies, and you take it when you know you might be pregnant, is that not "purposeful"?"
If one is pregnant they would not be taking the Pill in the first place. It may or may not prevent an egg from implanting, however the Church says it permissable to take it for medical reasons. The sin/wrong is in the intent.

reply from: Shenanigans

You people are weenies! None of you hate women like I do!
In fact I have a basement full of women chained up to the walls, who make my steak and have rape baby after rape baby.
I also hate rapists, and hhave a whole bunch of them that I force to rape the slaves to get them pregnant.
Soon I will unlease my army of anti-choice fundy wundys on the world who will go out and murder all those saintly pro-womyn, pro-family, doctors who perform a "full range of reproductive services".
Soon I will rule the world and all will bow to me, as Mighty Jeanette, Undisputed EMpress of the Universe. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

reply from: Yuuki

If one of the side effects of a medicine is that it sometimes kills unborn babies, and you take it when you know you might be pregnant, is that not "purposeful"?
No more purposeful than taking the pill and dying from a blood clot was an intended suicide. No more than getting in an accident was purposeful suicide.

reply from: Yuuki

If you become pregnant on the pill you may take it accidentally for a month or so without realising you are pregnant; this is why the pill is designed "all or nothing": Either it prevents pregnancy, or does not harm.
Preventing pregnancy is a sin? When most women take the pill they do so to prevent ovulation and in turn, pregnancy. The Catholic church had best be against ALL contraceptives and methods of preventing pregnancy then, including NFP.

reply from: scopia19822

"The Catholic church had best be against ALL contraceptives and methods of preventing pregnancy then, including NFP."
Some older conservative Catholics are against NFP even, however the logic of the Church is that with NFP, married couples are working within the laws of nature to prevent pregnancy, not introducing an artificial substance or foreign object into their bodies to do it. Its ok to chart ones cycle and decide not to have sex on the fertile days than to use BC.

reply from: Yuuki

But... you're still purposely preventing pregnancy. O.o Condoms are out of the question I assume.

reply from: scopia19822

"But... you're still purposely preventing pregnancy. O.o Condoms are out of the question I assume."
You are working within the laws of nature, you cant mandate that people have sex on the fertile days and believe it or not pregnancy can occur at anytime.. breakthrough ovulation. Condoms and all artifical methods are out of the question. There are 3 criteria to have a sacremental marriage in the Church. 1. Intend the union be permanant 2. doing it of your own free will 3. must be open to the prospect of children. So any Catholic getting married knows this up front and marriage preperation is also mandatory.

reply from: faithman

Come along my little clone. Seems some ajusting is in order.....

reply from: LisaAnne

While I can understand everyone's frustration over how stagnant the pro-life movement has become, I think the topic of this thread is very inappropriate.

reply from: carolemarie

I am not fond of the topic either....

reply from: Yuuki

I'm glad I'm not Catholic.

reply from: nancyu

Come along my little clone. Seems some ajusting is in order.....
Snicker...(OL)

reply from: nancyu

If you become pregnant on the pill you may take it accidentally for a month or so without realising you are pregnant; this is why the pill is designed "all or nothing": Either it prevents pregnancy, or does not harm.
Preventing pregnancy is a sin? When most women take the pill they do so to prevent ovulation and in turn, pregnancy. The Catholic church had best be against ALL contraceptives and methods of preventing pregnancy then, including NFP.
Abortifacient birth control can kill an already conceived child. NFP can not do that.
I think you understand this, you just like to play dum,b right?
CALLING ALL CLONES.....CALLING ALL CLONES....
We have another carolemarie here.

reply from: Rosalie

Please, fetus! What if you grew up to be Faithman 2.0? You're better off not being born in the first place.

reply from: Yuuki

Please, fetus! What if you grew up to be Faithman 2.0? You're better off not being born in the first place.
*Chuckle*

reply from: Rosalie

Which clearly says that you STILL don't have a clue what pro-choice is. Oh dear. But I don't think it'd be any use to explain that to you, would it? You would never actually consider something that is not anti-choice propaganda, right?
And another question is if you'd actually understand that at all.

reply from: scopia19822

"Which clearly says that you STILL don't have a clue what pro-choice is. Oh dear. But I don't think it'd be any use to explain that to you, would it? You would never actually consider something that is not anti-choice propaganda, right?"
What do you call a person who supports the right to abortion only in the cases of rape. incest or the life/health of the mother? They believe the woman in those circumstances should have the CHOICE to terminate the pregnancy, what else is that but "prochoice" with exceptions. Most American would fall into this category, most support parental consent/notification laws, late term restrictions, the PBA ban or they should be limited to only the hard cases. They dont support abortion on demand for any reason at anytime throughout pregnancy, most American at least want some restrictions on abortion if they dont want it outlawed completly.

reply from: carolemarie

I would call someone who was opposed to abortion except for the above exceptions prolife. They are prolife.
They are looking at it from a compassion, feeling for this person who is a victim of a crime

reply from: scopia19822

"I would call someone who was opposed to abortion except for the above exceptions prolife. They are prolife.
They are looking at it from a compassion, feeling for this person who is a victim of a crime"
I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you CM. Most people that I know that support exceptions call themselves prochoice, because they believe in those cases the women should have the choice to abort. Most Americans would fall into that category, they clearly dont support Rosalies degree of support for any reason at any time. Most Americans want restrictions on abortion accordigg to a survey taken by the Knights of Columbus and the Pew Research Council that appeared in Terry Mattinglys syndicated column that appears in the religion section of newspapers across the nation.

reply from: carolemarie

They are prolife. You are anti abortion. Different things

reply from: scopia19822

"They are prolife. You are anti abortion. Different things"
How am I not "prolife"? I oppose abortion, captial punishment, euthanasia, assisted suicide. I am anti abortion since Im against abortion, but I oppose any state sanctioned killing.

reply from: carolemarie

You oppose all abortions. Even to save the mother life. That is anti-abortion.
(against abortion, supporting no abortions ever)
That is the extreme end of the prolife scale.
Prolife is opposed to abortions. Allows narrow exceptions.
The mainstream prolife position.

reply from: Shenanigans

Gee... I dunno... you're treading on thin ice there, lady.
"Anti-abortion" was a term coined by the pro-choice to kill unborn children lobby. If you're going to label someone anti-abortion then that means the opposit, pro-abortion exists, therefore, anyone who supports abortion is pro-abortion. But then anyone who supports abortion but with exceptions, say after viability or x number of weeks, the they become the opposit of Pro-Life, so they're Pro-Death.
Its also a term used to describe those who actually murder abortionists and blow up clinics. Supporting that would indeed make one not Pro-Life. I'm Pro-Life with no exceptions, but I sure as hell dont' support murder or explosions (as cool as a fire ball in an abortion mill might be).
To apply that someone is "anti-abortion" implies they are not Pro-Life. To be Pro-Life is to denounce abortion and the harm it causes women.
This is more evidence of the damage abortion does - it makes people with no real graspe of the situation, who don't understand simple semantics and have a limited education think that "anti-abortion" is actually a designation to be placed on those who respect and fight for the lives of all unborn humans and their mothers, regardless of the situation.
There is no middle ground here. There's no gray areas. IF aboriton is wrong for the 18 year old who had too much fun at spring break, if its wrong for the prostititute, if its wrong for the married couple who have finished their family, then its wrong for rape, life of mother exceptions and foetal abnormality.
And quite frankly, when people start harping on about someone else not being Pro-Life because they don't support exceptions, when someone starts going on about anti-abortion, it shows me they really have no realisation or reality. They're just closet pro-choice to kill unborn children, as "exceptions" are so rare, that no law would pass that would not include those excuses in this current environment,.
Basically, you're going to disclude someone from the title of Pro-Life because they don't support the slaughter of about 2% of unborn?
Grow up.

reply from: 4given

Are you asking me, Lovely? Sad either way and confusing. I don't quite agree with the "mainstream definition" of pro-life.. I certainly don't agree with exceptions that deliberately abort/kill another innocent human life.. unborn or other. *I dunno.. you? Any specific reason why a zef should be killed IYO?*

reply from: scopia19822

"You oppose all abortions. Even to save the mother life. That is anti-abortion.
(against abortion, supporting no abortions ever)
That is the extreme end of the prolife scale.
Prolife is opposed to abortions. Allows narrow exceptions.
The mainstream prolife position."
I am oppossed to all abortion, if that makes me an extremnist than so be it. I am not opposed to removing a tubal pregnancy, the child will not survicve, the tube will burst and kill the woman. The baby has to be removed, the same thing with a child who dies inutero or in an accident the baby has to be removed. There are so many options available today that both can be brought close to term safely. I am opposed to the deliberatly killing of an unborn child . No exceptions.

reply from: lukesmom

Carole, a life is a life no matter the circumstance, no exceptions. When a woman is pregnant there are 2 lives to be concidered. The mother's life does NOT outweight the unborn child's live and vice versa. Both lives matter equally and medical professionals should try to save both lives.

reply from: scopia19822

"Carole, a life is a life no matter the circumstance, no exceptions. When a woman is pregnant there are 2 lives to be concidered. The mother's life does NOT outweight the unborn child's live and vice versa. Both lives matter equally and medical professionals should try to save both lives."
Thats how I feel Sue, but for me if it came down to me or the baby I would die to save the baby. I could not live with myself if I didnt do that.

reply from: carolemarie

Gee... I dunno... you're treading on thin ice there, lady.
"Anti-abortion" was a term coined by the pro-choice to kill unborn children lobby. If you're going to label someone anti-abortion then that means the opposit, pro-abortion exists, therefore, anyone who supports abortion is pro-abortion. But then anyone who supports abortion but with exceptions, say after viability or x number of weeks, the they become the opposit of Pro-Life, so they're Pro-Death.
Its also a term used to describe those who actually murder abortionists and blow up clinics. Supporting that would indeed make one not Pro-Life. I'm Pro-Life with no exceptions, but I sure as hell dont' support murder or explosions (as cool as a fire ball in an abortion mill might be).
To apply that someone is "anti-abortion" implies they are not Pro-Life. To be Pro-Life is to denounce abortion and the harm it causes women.
This is more evidence of the damage abortion does - it makes people with no real graspe of the situation, who don't understand simple semantics and have a limited education think that "anti-abortion" is actually a designation to be placed on those who respect and fight for the lives of all unborn humans and their mothers, regardless of the situation.
There is no middle ground here. There's no gray areas. IF aboriton is wrong for the 18 year old who had too much fun at spring break, if its wrong for the prostititute, if its wrong for the married couple who have finished their family, then its wrong for rape, life of mother exceptions and foetal abnormality.
And quite frankly, when people start harping on about someone else not being Pro-Life because they don't support exceptions, when someone starts going on about anti-abortion, it shows me they really have no realisation or reality. They're just closet pro-choice to kill unborn children, as "exceptions" are so rare, that no law would pass that would not include those excuses in this current environment,.
Basically, you're going to disclude someone from the title of Pro-Life because they don't support the slaughter of about 2% of unborn?
Grow up.[/Q

reply from: scopia19822

"Usually, I am told I am not prolife on this board because I favor exceptions.
And I oppose blowing up clinics"
Its a matter of preception, but what really matters if your own preception. If I supported exceptions I would call myself prochoice because Id believe in those cases a woman should have the choice to abort. I also oppose clinic violence and abortionist shootings.

reply from: carolemarie

Shenanigans is correct, call yourself what you will and so will I

reply from: 4given

What then? Pro-life. Right?

reply from: carolemarie

Yep, we both are prolife

reply from: Teresa18

Perhaps Yoda needs to retrieve his dictionary, but I think pro-life and anti-abortion are the same thing.

reply from: carolemarie

NOOOO not the dictionary!!!!

reply from: 4given

Oppose yet understand.. A Guinness for you and a long cigarette to share in another *understanding*
What matters is the unborn, so I have to nitpick here. Do you suppose that any threatened life cares what our differences may be? If one life is saved due to any measure here or elsewhere- I praise the Lord Most High.. I am thankful. What "really matters" IMO are the silent and threatened unborn. Who will fight for them? I will. Surely it is important to keep ourselves in check.. but let's not lose focus, right?

reply from: faithman

I'll say it again, and I don't care what any of you think. If we were a righteous nation and people, we would not allow any abortion clinic to remain standing this very day. This nicer than Jesus passifism is the main reason the killing continues. If it were 2 year olds being herded off into killing centers, The centers would burn no matter how much against the law it was. But anybody who would oppose one of these mills going up, agrees with planned parenthood, that a womb child is a second class citizen, and undeserving of the same consideration as a born child. The righteous kings of juda did not protest the high places, or hold a banquett to raise money to change the law. They tore them down. It is sickening That so called pro-lifers would protect the abortionist, and their clinics over the lives of the little persons they kill. But when you oppose those who have the courage to do what is right, that is exactly what you do. You say the clinic is more important than the life of a child. I don't care what the other side thinks, or about a so called movement that has allowed millions to die, just because they don't want to "look bad". This is not a "debate". It is a fight for the very lives of innocent children. Isn't it time we started acting like it?

reply from: yoda

Me too. We could start a club called "Carole's extremists", I guess....

reply from: yoda

Carole hates the dictionary..... it won't let her make things up.... so that's good enough reason to use it!
Main Entry: an·ti·abor·tion
Pronunciation: "an-tE-&-'bor-sh&n, "an-"tI-
Function: adjective
: opposed to abortion and especially to the legalization of abortion <antiabortion lobbyists>
- an·ti·abor·tion·ist /-sh(&-)nist/ noun
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=antiabortion

pro-life -adj.
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/pro-life

reply from: nancyu

I share in your 4given. To say it is extreme to believe it is wrong to kill even one innocent child is beyond disgusting. The idea that anyone believes ours is an extreme position, makes me wonder how I arrived on such a planet.
We think killing children is extreme. And we're weird.

reply from: SRUW4I5

Putting more value on the life of a preborn child than on the life of the woman by not allowing abortion to save the womans life can seem a little extreme especially if there isn't something else that can be done to save the woman or she isn't far enough along that the child could be saved.
IMO it'd be weird to call someone extreme just because they don't want a child to die...

reply from: carolemarie

We live under rule of law. Abortion is legal. It is not a crime.
There is those pesky commands that You shall not kill and to submit to the governing authorities!
You opposed amending the constitution to ban abortion, because that would leave open change that would be bad, and you justify bombing abortion clnics?
You support terrorism......

reply from: scopia19822

"Me too. We could start a club called "Carole's extremists", I guess...."
I still support giving rape victims the option of the MAP, so Im not "prolife" enough for some people on here. I do however oppose abortion under any circumstances once pregnancy is established.

reply from: Yuuki

So according to the extreme-lifers, you're bad because you're okay with (possibly) killing the baby by preventing it from implanting (or, according to Nancyu you're bad for preventing it from existing in the first place!), but the faux-lifers dislike you because you'll force the woman to die later in pregnancy...

reply from: scopia19822

I dont know whether to scratch my watch or wind my arse...

reply from: Yuuki

Well it is a little hypocritical, since you clearly have an intense caring for the child; but why does implantation matter so much to you? Why is that an important moment; isn't the un-implanted child worthy of life to you?

reply from: scopia19822

Well it is a little hypocritical, since you clearly have an intense caring for the child; but why does implantation matter so much to you? Why is that an important moment; isn't the un-implanted child worthy of life to you?
Im being pragmatic. If I want to abolish abortions the only way thats going to happen is if life is legally defined as beggining at implatantion. That is when there is concrete proof that a human life is actually present inside the mother. Until implantation we dont know if a life is present or not. Pregnancy prevention is a moral decision, not a legal one.

reply from: 4given

Kids-- there is another thread where one can scratch and wind the differences in regard to abortifacients.. I personally do not approve of birth control, but I also realize that contraceptives may prevent potential abortions. I did not undertsand the abortifacient qualities until I came here. This topic is yet another( though important)here to take the focus off of the unborn facing abortion.. They are fertilized and implanted humans that are facing a REAL slaughtering hand. IMO abortifacient BC is the sister of abortion.

reply from: churchmouse

carolemarie said,
I thought your position had changed? I thought you were now against abortion for rape and incest?
I certainly do not believe that someone is really pro-life in the true sense of the word if they still hold out for rape and incest.
If I was pregnant with a child and I had been raped......how would you be pro-life for my child if you think I should have the choice to kill it?
As i said......how can anyone claim to be pro-life if they condone abortion even for the tought cases?
You are making excuses. The life in the womb is innocent. And you think if someone wants to kill it to solve a problem its ok? What would you say to the child in the womb of the rape mother? Its ok your mother dismembered you?
They might prevent........and they ALSO MIGHT CAUSE AN ABORTION. So how can you say taking any chance is right?

reply from: carolemarie

It did. I only want life/health of mother exception.

reply from: 4given

They might prevent........and they ALSO MIGHT CAUSE AN ABORTION. So how can you say taking any chance is right?
I DID NOT SAY THAT.

reply from: scopia19822

"It did. I only want life/health of mother exception."
I would be willing for the life if it was only used to remove an ectopic preganancy, a baby who died inutero , but never would I support the delieberate killing of a human being. As for the health that issue has been strethced so far that the argument is moot. If I didnt like swollen ankles and they cause me to get depressed that is all I would need to use the health clause to get an abortion.

reply from: yoda

The health exception is a loophole that is wide enough to drive a truck through, or a busload of women wanting abortions.
Is that really what you want? Busloads of women using the "health" exception to get abortions? Are you really so naive that you don't know how easy it is to fabricate a "health exception"?
Do we really have to explain it to you?

reply from: Yuuki

The health exception is a loophole that is wide enough to drive a truck through, or a busload of women wanting abortions.
Is that really what you want? Busloads of women using the "health" exception to get abortions? Are you really so naive that you don't know how easy it is to fabricate a "health exception"?
Do we really have to explain it to you?
At least they'd have to come up with some kind of reason, and it would have to be confirmed by a doctor... that's a lot better than right now, which is "no questions asked".

reply from: Yuuki

The mother is a human being. Refusing her any life saving treatment is deliberately killing her.

reply from: faithman

The mother is a human being. Refusing her any life saving treatment is deliberately killing her.
Strawman alert.

reply from: Yuuki

That's an interesting point of view and I completely agree with the part about how we can't know until it implants. I can respect yoru viewpoint.

reply from: yoda

No, not at all. The "doctors" as you call them furnish the "reasons" for their clients. Tiller is famous for hiring his own "doctors" to supply second opinions that agree with his that abortion is indicated.
It goes like this: Abortionist: "Are you having thoughts about suicide" (wink wink, nudge, nudge)... Client: "Oh, why yes, I think about it all the time".

reply from: yoda

So? That only takes us back to the "Russian Roulette" scenario.

reply from: faithman

So? That only takes us back to the "Russian Roulette" scenario.
Willing ignorance does not= we can't know. You only can't know because you don't want to know.

reply from: Yuuki

So? That only takes us back to the "Russian Roulette" scenario.
I think there's more to it than that though. Just like I would never consider punishing a woman for drinking alcohol before knowing she was pregnant, I feel no desire to punish women for using hormonal birth control by making it illegal on the basis it /could/ be preventing implantation. As someone else mentioned, higher dose types are more effective at preventing ovulation so that this issue doesn't even arise. I think we need to work more on that. I definitely wouldn't approve of a pill that was designed primarily to prevent implantation as its main way of preventing pregnancy. We need to stop it before an individual human being exists, and so we need to prevent ovulation.

reply from: Yuuki

No, not at all. The "doctors" as you call them furnish the "reasons" for their clients. Tiller is famous for hiring his own "doctors" to supply second opinions that agree with his that abortion is indicated.
It goes like this: Abortionist: "Are you having thoughts about suicide" (wink wink, nudge, nudge)... Client: "Oh, why yes, I think about it all the time".
I'm talking about real doctors in real ob-gyn wards in real hospitals. Not whackjobs in abortion clinics.

reply from: yoda

That's nothing but a distraction, as no one is proposing that.

reply from: yoda

Who do you think does the majority of abortions? The whackjobs, of course!

reply from: Yuuki

Who do you think does the majority of abortions? The whackjobs, of course!
Okay but we're talking about a world where elective abortion is illegal, so there would be no abortion clinics. Your only resource would be a real ob-gyn who would be able to tell you your real risks.
I'm not saying there wouldn't still be pr-abort doctors guiding women to abort, but I think there would be a lot fewer.

reply from: Shenanigans

Come to New Zealand. That's the situation here. Elective aboriton is illegal, but you can get one for those miserable "exceptions" and 98% are done on "mental health grounds". And beleive you me, it doesn't drop the stats and people just abuse the crap out of the system. Even in this system you don't get "real" ob-gyn's. You get abortionists and you get ob-gyn who refuse to assist or refer or certify for abortion.
I've seen plenty of files of pts who've had abortions and the little "abortion A-OK certificate" has everything from "can't cope with any mroe kids" to "doesn't like the dad" and hell, the other day I saw one with "doesn't want to change nappies".
These are legal documents those quacks are filling in. Suicide risk my arse!

reply from: yoda

Yep, that's an exception big enough to drive a busload of aborting mums through....

reply from: churchmouse

Thats because they live in countries under Islamic laws. They are disciplined if they are caught committing adultry and they don't have premarital sex.
No. Christ would say no.
I support a child in Indonesia which has a high population with AIDS. Her name is Adabe and we write back and forth. I got her name from World Vision and they do awesome work.
We can't talk about our faiths because she lives in a community that will not allow freedom of religion. I have no clue what her beliefs are because I can't ask.
I am showing love by helping that is all that matters. God will do the rest.
I found the site you copied your post from. You should post it when you cut and paste information that isn't your own.
The article also offered more information.
"Roth also notes that Islamic areas tend to have lower rates. This may well be true (among other things, the widespread Muslim custom of washing before and after sex may help). On the other hand, they may have lower reporting rates, for reason of stigma. (This may be true of the Catholic Christian areas, too.)"
"But let's end on a note of optimism. The African country with the largest number of evangelical Christians is Uganda. According to Operation World, more than 40% of the population are evangelical Christians, one of the highest rates in the world. Uganda also has a low (for Africa) adult HIV/AIDS rate of just 5%."
According to Operation World:
"Uganda is the first country in the world with a massive AIDS problem to...reduce the numbers of the afflicted, from possibly 25% in 1992.... Both government and churches faced up to the terrible calamity and have successfully worked to achieve this reduction."
http://www.martinrothonline.com/MRCC11.htm

"Jesus sent out the first disciples with the commission to preach and heal. When confronted by John's disciples asking if He was the Messiah, Jesus replied "The blind can see, the lame can walk, lepers are made clean, the deaf can hear, the dead are raised and the Gospel is preached to the poor" (Luke 4: 16 - 21).

reply from: Rosalie

A compassionate pro-lifer who possesses at least a shred of empathy and respect for the woman.
Pro-choice means supporting EVERY reproductive choice the woman makes, regardless of how you feel about the particular situation.
Picking that you will only support this or that choice under this or that circumstances is everything BUT pro-choice.
Get it finally through your thick skull, will you?
Fat chance, I suppose.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply from: Yuuki

Faithman, your damned exclamation marks are stretching every single page you post on and making it very difficult to read and reply. At least put some spaces in between them every ten or so.

reply from: faithman

Already edited most of them. It is rosalies fault. She wanted them, and God forbid that I should hurt the feelings of a woman no matter what a low life baby killer they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply from: lukesmom

A compassionate pro-lifer who possesses at least a shred of empathy and respect for the woman.
Pro-choice means supporting EVERY reproductive choice the woman makes, regardless of how you feel about the particular situation.
Picking that you will only support this or that choice under this or that circumstances is everything BUT pro-choice.
Get it finally through your thick skull, will you?
Fat chance, I suppose.
Ahhh, another respectful, and truely informative, woman to woman post from our resident "butt nugget".

reply from: Yuuki

Already edited most of them. It is rosalies fault. She wanted them, and God forbid that I should hurt the feelings of a woman no matter what a low life baby killer they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL! I just saw her comment on that and responded "Oh, so this is YOUR fault!!" haha XD Now that I get it, it was kinda amusing actually.

reply from: Rosalie

Why should I show any respect to misogynist abusers?
Ah, you really have nothing to say, do you? Except for insults and lies, of course. That's all you are good for anyway.

reply from: Rosalie

Already edited most of them. It is rosalies fault. She wanted them, and God forbid that I should hurt the feelings of a woman no matter what a low life baby killer they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You clearly did not even comprehend my post. Which doesn't surprise me, given the display of your 'intelligence' here, or lack thereof.

reply from: faithman

Killers have to blur that line to justify their evil deeds. Darkness avoids light, because it is exposed for what it is in light. The borties want to cover their issue, and as the profetii killer has said herself," fight tooth and toenail" against the light of personhood for the womb child. Personhood is the light. The line drawn in the sand. The distinction between false and true. If things seem shadowy, it is no time to compromise. It is time to turn up the light of personhood until there is no more "what if" shadows. Just the simple fact of womb child personhood, and the final judgment of citizen jurist as to what punishment for those who destroy the preborn. That is the way it is for the born person, that is the way it should be with the womb child person.

reply from: lukesmom

Already edited most of them. It is rosalies fault. She wanted them, and God forbid that I should hurt the feelings of a woman no matter what a low life baby killer they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You clearly did not even comprehend my post. Which doesn't surprise me, given the display of your 'intelligence' here, or lack thereof.
Yup, definantly a "butt nuggett"

reply from: Rosalie

Already edited most of them. It is rosalies fault. She wanted them, and God forbid that I should hurt the feelings of a woman no matter what a low life baby killer they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You clearly did not even comprehend my post. Which doesn't surprise me, given the display of your 'intelligence' here, or lack thereof.
Yup, definantly a "butt nuggett"
And yet another display of your intelligence and the strenght of your 'arguments'. Oh wait, you have none.
Tell me, do you finally understand that humans are not the only mammals out there?

reply from: lukesmom

Already edited most of them. It is rosalies fault. She wanted them, and God forbid that I should hurt the feelings of a woman no matter what a low life baby killer they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You clearly did not even comprehend my post. Which doesn't surprise me, given the display of your 'intelligence' here, or lack thereof.
Yup, definantly a "butt nuggett"
And yet another display of your intelligence and the strenght of your 'arguments'. Oh wait, you have none.
Tell me, do you finally understand that humans are not the only mammals out there?
"Tell me, do you finally understand that butt nuggetts are not the only mammal crap out there?" I'm feelin the love, my little butt nuggett!

reply from: Rosalie

"Tell me, do you finally understand that butt nuggetts are not the only mammal crap out there?" I'm feelin the love, my little butt nuggett!
So you still don't understand. I'm not surprised.

reply from: faithman

Killers have to blur that line to justify their evil deeds. Darkness avoids light, because it is exposed for what it is in light. The borties want to cover their issue, and as the profetii killer has said herself," fight tooth and toenail" against the light of personhood for the womb child. Personhood is the light. The line drawn in the sand. The distinction between false and true. If things seem shadowy, it is no time to compromise. It is time to turn up the light of personhood until there is no more "what if" shadows. Just the simple fact of womb child personhood, and the final judgment of citizen jurist as to what punishment for those who destroy the preborn. That is the way it is for the born person, that is the way it should be with the womb child person.

reply from: nancyu

"Tell me, do you finally understand that butt nuggetts are not the only mammal crap out there?" I'm feelin the love, my little butt nuggett!
So you still don't understand. I'm not surprised.
Rosalie we understand more than you know. We understand that you value your own life over the lives of others whom you don't know. We understand that you view yourself as superior to anyone so stupid as to be pro life. We understand that you think it is all about a woman's reproductive freedom, and has nothing to do with killing a child. We understand that you either don't believe a child dies in abortion, or that you don't care. We understand that you will turn yourself into a pretzel before you would admit that an unborn child is a person, even though the evidence stares you in the face every day.
The problem is that you haven't convinced anyone to buy into your warped point of view. That is a failure on your part, not on ours. If you were as intelligent as you think you are, don't you think you would have educated us to the point of understanding by now?

reply from: faithman

Oh, our informative little butt nuggett, thank you from the bottom of my heart for straightening this all out for us poor monster, idiot, stupid prolifers! Too bad you are a butt nuggett and forced to hide away. Never mind, know that we love you butt nuggett proaborts here and we try really hard not to pity you in your butt nuggettness...
"Tell me, do you finally understand that butt nuggetts are not the only mammal crap out there?" I'm feelin the love, my little butt nuggett!
So you still don't understand. I'm not surprised.

reply from: yoda

No one is stupid enough to not believe it, so it must be the second choice.

reply from: scopia19822

"No one is stupid enough to not believe it, so it must be the second choice."
I would say both are accurate. Some of the bortheads must have either skipped biology class or just plain slept through it.

reply from: Rosalie

Doubtful.
Of course I value my life. There's nothing wrong with it.
Not really. I just have no respect for you and your spamming, vulgarities, insults and personal attacks are only proving me right.

I know a child dies in an abortion. But I don't believe any person, a child or an adult, does not have the right to live off someone else's body against their will, ever.
It's not a person but even if it was, it wouldn't change anything. No PERSON has the right to use my body against my will, either.
I'm not here to convince anyone. You are a bunch of demagogical fanatics (though there are some exceptions, but not many). Right now, I'm really here just to see what else you will call me, what other lies you are going to spout out about me and what other insults you are going to make up to get back at a person who disagrees with you and who will never allow you warped morality and abusive approach to affect her or anyone else's life.
And you know, you can educate and uneducated person. But you can never make a demagogical fanatic see any other opinion, apart from their own. And that precisely is the case of 99% of 'pro-lifers' frequenting this board.

reply from: churchmouse

No its a cow right? What do you mean its not a person? Are you a person? If you are a person so is the child in the womb.
The woman who gets pregnant.....takes the chance of gettng ppregnant.
She uses her body to have sex.......and with sex comes the chance of pregnancy. She knows she can get pregnant and takes the chance. Therefore her rights should end if a child is conceived.
"I'm not here to convince anyone."
You couldn't if you tried.
We know why you are here. You get off on subjects like this. You like to bash people who genuienly care about people.
No you are simply a pagan who is lost and cant show anything obviously but hate. I feel so sorry for you.
WArped morality? Oh honey......you are the one that does not seem to have a moral compass. But then why would you? You think the world revolves around you.
"you can educate and uneducate" What does this mean? It makes no sense. LOL
Honey, thats because 99% of us have morals and a conscience. Do you?

reply from: yoda

Sorry, ain't buying none. Deeply into denial, maybe...... but no one is that stupid, and still able to post on a forum.

reply from: Rosalie

No its a cow right? What do you mean its not a person? Are you a person? If you are a person so is the child in the womb.
Nope, it's a human fetus.
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Just like consent to a kiss is not consent to sex, etc.
Oh look! You are lying again! I told you already - I'm here to see how low you all will sink.
I'm not paganand your passive-aggressive attacks amuse me. As do your lies and presumptions. All you can do is lie and attack - then again you are 'pro-life' and that is what people like you do on daily basis.
You can educate AN uneducated person. I made a typo, big whoop. If you were a little smart, you'd see that what I originally wrote was "educate and uneducated person" and you'd realize that there was a typo (aka accidentally added "d" to "an"). Too bad that concept is beyond your grasp.
You don't have a conscience, only fanatical beliefs and hatred for others. I'd pity you if you weren't so disgusting.

reply from: lukesmom

Geez, again all the nice comments showing what kind of person you really are. Keep on posting! You are living proof of the nastiness of proaborts. Great to have you doing our work for us! LOL!

reply from: scopia19822

Geez, again all the nice comments showing what kind of person you really are. Keep on posting! You are living proof of the nastiness of proaborts. Great to have you doing our work for us! LOL!
She really needs to stop it or her blood pressure is going to sky rocket. I wonder how many left wing feminazis are on high blood pressure meds? After all they get offended by the slightest little thing that doesnt compute with thier worldview. Not a way that I would want to live.

reply from: churchmouse

Yes it is. The chance is there. That is why birth control is not 100% effective. It is written on the label as such.
IMO kissing is a sex act in a way. If you dont think it is would you mind your husband kiss another woman? I do not mean a peck on the lips.
I bet not.
No because from where your view is you cant see over the top to know what people with morals are doing.

Yes you are. You have no moral compass. Anyone who is pro-abortion lacks something.
Beliefs that have made this country the strongest in the world. It was because of Christianity and nothing else. And now you humanists have taken over, stripped God from everything, and look at the results. A country out of control trying to live without God.
I dont hate anyone, but that does not mean I am not repulsed at your worldview and ideals. I do feel sorry for you, like I feel for anyone who is lost and needing a Savior.
I pray one day when you are at the bottom of the well, that you reach out to Christ. He can save you and change your heart. I want this for you.

reply from: scopia19822

"Yes you are. You have no moral compass. Anyone who is pro-abortion lacks something. "
I dont think shes a pagan, I have known of pagans to actually have some morals. Godless would be more appropriate. Ros knows about Christ and the Gospel, she chooses to reject it because she has the freewill to do so. I would leave the choice up to her if she accepts it great if not its her loss.

reply from: churchmouse

I think she is. She does more than reject the message.
She like Faithman is here simply to hate people.

reply from: Rosalie

Yes it is. The chance is there. That is why birth control is not 100% effective. It is written on the label as such.
The fact that there is a chance in no way implies consent.
What you think IMPLIES consent does not matter anyway. If you think it does, you're going down a dangerous route. It's like saying "But I said that her wearing a skirt and making out with me meant that she's giving me consent to have sex with her! I thought that her behavior implies consent!" That's exactly the same thing.
The only thing that matters is explicit consent of the woman that the fetus may use her body for the next 40 weeks.
You are sinking really low but you should go to LukesMom or Scopia for some advice.
Says a fundie who supports abuse of women. Oh yeah, your words matter so much! Except not.
Says you, because you're a fundie.
A part of me feels sorry for you, too, but I'm mostly just disgusted that abusers and fundies like you still exist. Thank goodness you're a dying breed.
I don't care what you want and I can TELL that you are taunting me and trying to provoke me. You are not the first fundie who tried to do that - you are all so fanatical in your beliefs that you are absolutely incapable of tolerating the freedom of religion we have here in the great United States of America. It's a true sign of a disgusting, deplorable fundie like you.
You are not succeeding, by the way. Your desperation only makes me laugh.

reply from: Rosalie

Nice try, but I don't go around calling people whores, *****s or butt nuggets like you and your fellow bullies and I stand by every single thing I ever called you - you deserve all of it and more. Except that I'm not going to sink as low as you and your fellow abusers and bullies and call women whores, *****s and butt nuggetts.
That's interesting, do either of you stupid yokels actually really think that your fanatical babbling influences my mood in any way? It obviously influence yours because that's the only way how you could think it influences the mood of other people. Really interesting.
You seriously are an abominable human being and I sincerely regret ever trying to be nice to such a sick nitwit like you.
Well, thanks for giving me yet another reason not to bother being civil with you ever again. You really cannot stand it, can you? The fact that someone has a different opinion and expresses it.
I'm seriously not going to bother anymore. Heads up - don't go whining that you don't deserve being treated like that like your fellow stupid bully LukesMom.
You are clearly incapable of having a normal conversation with someone on the other side of the issue, as signaled by your absolutely uncalled for attack in the other thread, where you just joined your fellow, misogynist bully LukesMom in attacking me because you just couldn't pass up the chance to attack a pro-choice woman, even though you weren't currently even arguing with her in that thread. What a character you are.
Maybe you both deserve every single*****in your life for behaving exactly this way to others. What comes around goes around. You are two fine examples of that.

reply from: faithman

Nice try, but I don't go around calling people whores, *****s or butt nuggets like you and your fellow bullies and I stand by every single thing I ever called you - you deserve all of it and more. Except that I'm not going to sink as low as you and your fellow abusers and bullies and call women whores, *****s and butt nuggetts.
That's interesting, do either of you stupid yokels actually really think that your fanatical babbling influences my mood in any way? It obviously influence yours because that's the only way how you could think it influences the mood of other people. Really interesting.
You seriously are an abominable human being and I sincerely regret ever trying to be nice to such a sick nitwit like you.
Well, thanks for giving me yet another reason not to bother being civil with you ever again. You really cannot stand it, can you? The fact that someone has a different opinion and expresses it.
I'm seriously not going to bother anymore. Heads up - don't go whining that you don't deserve being treated like that like your fellow stupid bully LukesMom.
You are clearly incapable of having a normal conversation with someone on the other side of the issue, as signaled by your absolutely uncalled for attack in the other thread, where you just joined your fellow, misogynist bully LukesMom in attacking me because you just couldn't pass up the chance to attack a pro-choice woman, even though you weren't currently even arguing with her in that thread. What a character you are.
Maybe you both deserve every single*****in your life for behaving exactly this way to others. What comes around goes around. You are two fine examples of that.
What comes around? SSSSOOOO if you are all down with killing every gay in the womb, that means they should be able to turn the table on ya.

reply from: lukesmom

Which is why you are known as "butt nuggett" around here.

reply from: lukesmom

Butt nuggett foul? What planet do you live on? Little uptight??? Too bad you can't get your undies in a bundle about something that REALLY matters: the violent killing of thousands of unborn humans, daily.

reply from: faithman

Butt nuggett foul? What planet do you live on? Little uptight??? Too bad you can't get your undies in a bundle about something that REALLY matters: the violent killing of thousands of unborn humans, daily.
Butt nuggetts only care about spilting anal hairs.

reply from: churchmouse

You are enough to make someone throw up you are so filthy.
Filthy mind, mouth......


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