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Hate on this board

by: carolemarie

I have decided that there are just some people who are so full of hate and spite, that it isn't worth listening to them. So I have decided to put the haters on ignore. Which is ironically the prolifers.

reply from: lycan

For what it's worth, I've been on-and-off involved in pro-life activities for a number of years, and I've thrice reported one of the people you talk about. And I notice Liberal has started reporting him, too.

reply from: Faramir

I've got two of them on ignore.
It's the first time I have used "Mr. Iggy" and it really makes a difference. It's tempting to battle the meanness and the distortions, but it really does no good in the long run. It's the same stuff over and over, and at least for now, a relief to not have to see it.
And of course the fact that it's prolifers means you're a "pro abort" but you won't have to see those comments.
But to be fair, I have been on boards and seen prochoicers who are almost as hateful as the "unholy trinity" of prolife haters that dominate this board.

reply from: Faramir

Don't bother.
It's a joke.
They're propabably PMing about it behind the scenes, and laughing at you and anyone else who does that. Your "reports" mean nothing.
It's the haters who control the board, so we are somewhat limited.
It is what it is, and all we can do is make the most of it.

reply from: carolemarie

At least it will be pleasant and we can have rational discussions.
I am glad to finally not have to be called names in every post.

reply from: micah

Yeah, but FaithMan and Yodahater keep this board interesting and fun. They represent your hardcore fans, like the sports fanatics who paint their faces and dress up as their team mascot. If we want intelligent discussion, there are plenty of other places we can look.

reply from: Faramir

I have to admit that faithman has a certain "charm" of sorts and can be amusing.
But I already have a library of his essays, and a couple I have memorized, having seen them reposted hundreds of times.

reply from: BossMomma

Sometimes I think he spams the board to remind himself of what he's talking about.

reply from: Faramir

Sometimes I think he spams the board to remind himself of what he's talking about.
He has made a few posts that I thought were very good and made me think. But he shoots himself in the foot, and destroys all credibility when he makes his hateful rants.

reply from: BossMomma

Sometimes I think he spams the board to remind himself of what he's talking about.
He has made a few posts that I thought were very good and made me think. But he shoots himself in the foot, and destroys all credibility when he makes his hateful rants.
True, he has brief moments of sanity. He and I were actually getting along for a short time, then he stopped taking his happy pills or whatever and went back to acting an ass.

reply from: yoda

Nothing ironic about it, carole. It just shows which camp you really fit in with better.

reply from: yoda

Exactly, but it does provide some comic relief.

reply from: yoda

Great to see you kissing up to carolemarie. Thanks!

reply from: Banned Member

While I disagree with Carol to a great degree, I would hope that she does not perceive me to ba a "hater". My passions do get the better of me at times and I will not apologize for the truths of my faith to anyone. I am unapologetically pro-life and not afraid assign guilt to those parties who I believe guilty of promoting and supporting abortion. Do I think that Carol is wrong on some issues. Yes. Do I hate her? No.
I have resisted putting anyone on ignore. I feel that I need to know entirely what is going on in any forum so that I can address whatever I can address to assist pro-lifers and the unborn. Even if my blood does boil from time to time because of what I read here.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Nothing ironic about it, carole. It just shows which camp you really fit in with better.
All phony pro lifers unite under camp carole!

reply from: faithman

Hod do you put yourself on ignore? you are the only hater full of spite, and ironiclly you are not pro-life.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I have. I think I've let a few posts slip. I'm not sure if "baby killer" alone is enough to report him on. I suppose that would be up to Carole. That's the only reason he's not on ignore for me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Nothing ironic about it, carole. It just shows which camp you really fit in with better.
Disliking Hitler doesn't mean I'm not Christian, and it also doesn't make me Jewish.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Hod do you put yourself on ignore? you are the only hater full of spite, and ironiclly you are not pro-life.
I have never seen Carole rant at anyone in the hateful, disgusting ways you have. She is consistently more polite, sane, and logical while still having a lot of love and caring for the unborn.

reply from: lukesmom

I hate to see the hate here on BOTH sides of the issure and I hate to see how some posters, esp you Carole, are treated. I don't put anyone on ignore because I feel just about everyone can be learned from. I also feel that each prolifer can or should be able to work his or her own way/style and if that means helping moms before or after an abortion, fine. If that means taking pictures or doing sidewalk counciling or all the other stuff, that's fine too. Why should prolifers limit themselves? That said, the whole Vexing thing was a great waste of time on this board and fman's language and attacks are not only annoying but rather fruitless too.
Carole, you do great and worthwhile work, truthfully, who cares what anyone else but you and people close to you think. Random posters here don't know you and their "opinions" don't count. What you think of yourself does.

reply from: Faramir

The self-appointed leader of this board is just as cruel to Carole as f'man, and many here turn a blind eye to it.
He constantly digs and is extremely dishonest in the way he distorts her works and intentions.
It's not all faithman.
It's a pity some use such a noble cause as defense of life in the womb to be an excuse to browbeat, harrass, and feel superious to others.

reply from: Banned Member

No one should feel shy! Name names.

reply from: Faramir

There are too many prolifers on this board who turn everything upsidedown regarding her and her work, and I wonder if it's jealousy of her success.
Instead of praising her for her good work and for saving hundreds of babies, they nitpick the things they disagree with, and then therefore conclude that all that she does sucks, and they even have the nerve to lie and say she just gives out candy to "reward" baby killers.
The prolifers here should be ENCOURAGING AND THANK her for SAVING BABIES and for being a good example. They can still disagree with her on issues where they think she is wrong, but overall she is a force for good in defense of life in the womb, and the way she is treated by at least four poster is atrocious, but faithman gets all the blame, since he is the most obnoxious about it.

reply from: 4given

What I find is odd is the number of posters that choose to announce to the rest of the board whomever they have on ignore.

reply from: Faramir

I'll think about it, but you are not one of them.

reply from: Faramir

Nothing ironic about it, carole. It just shows which camp you really fit in with better.
Disliking Hitler doesn't mean I'm not Christian, and it also doesn't make me Jewish.
Too bad "ignore" doesn't work for quoted posts, but LOL was that ever predictible. (referring to what you quoted and not your comments, LC)

reply from: Faramir

Guess!
You must guess.
We gives you three guessessss...

reply from: speck

Guess!
You must guess.
We gives you three guessessss...
That one is just too easy...... Even Rick should get that one without any spelling errors.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I've learned a LOT from people here, most of it from the very nice people who don't insult and hate others. Those folks only serve to send the erroneous message that the prolife movement is based on degredation of women, punishment for pregnancy, punishment for having sex, attempts to shame, embarrass and insult people and even more hatred.
Those who love and attempt to understand and assist are the ones who changed my heart and mind. Thank you, LCR, BossMomma, Churchmouse (in her own special way), CaroleMarie, Scopia, LukesMom and others who know how to work miracles. One man is also special and a great asset to prolife in general - that is CharlesD.
Sorry, but I learned nothing good at all from Faithman, Augustine, Yodavater, ChristianLott, GL4Uetc. and all the other MEN (guys, why are the worst ones here always MEN???) who use hate, prejudice, suspicion, namecalling and negativity to attempt to prove their moral superiority, only to make themselves look like foolish idiots. You make prolifers look like immature, bumbling, harassing, perverted morons. You think you are HELPING the prolife movement to advance??? NO! You won't get anyone to listen when you dish out huge helpings of hatred and spew nastiness with your words and actions.
Thanks again to the wonderful people here, and I can only hope that the nasty guys can learn something from this great group of women.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Nothing ironic about it, carole. It just shows which camp you really fit in with better.
Disliking Hitler doesn't mean I'm not Christian, and it also doesn't make me Jewish.
Too bad "ignore" doesn't work for quoted posts, but LOL was that ever predictible. (referring to what you quoted and not your comments, LC)
Hah, yeah, iggy is no good against the power of the quote. His comment was rather silly.

reply from: yoda

No need to apologize, that's the greatest compliment you could've given me.
And I love the company you put me in, thanks baby killer!

reply from: yoda

Ah, but that won't save you.... anyone who disagrees with a fauxlifer is immediately labeled a "hater" for standing up for what they think is right.
Well, maybe not immediately, they may wait an hour or so......

reply from: yoda

She does have quite a few "followers", doesn't she? Of course, Faramir isn't really a follower, he's more of an "alter ego".

reply from: Faramir

He desperately wants to paint her as a "pro abort" and even stoops to lying about what she does at clinics.
She has saved hundreds of babies, but I wonder how many she would have saved if she greeted the women with a camera...

reply from: yoda

There are only two camps where abortion is concerned. There is no middle ground.

reply from: yoda

Uh-oh...... you have opened yourself up to a blistering personal attack by the fauxlifers...... better duck!

reply from: yoda

Fascinating..... it's like your whole purpose in being here is to be her personal bodyguard. Are you a family member, close friend, or are you carole herself?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

No need to apologize, that's the greatest compliment you could've given me.
And I love the company you put me in, thanks baby killer!
See what I mean? I hope it makes you happy to try to make other people feel terrible - or maybe misery and anger just love company.
Hateful old fartbag.

reply from: Faramir

No need to apologize, that's the greatest compliment you could've given me.
And I love the company you put me in, thanks baby killer!
See what I mean? I hope it makes you happy to try to make other people feel terrible - or maybe misery and anger just love company.
Hateful old fartbag.
I didn't know you were a baby killer. How many babies have you killed, RML?

reply from: yoda

By actual abortions, or by posting in support of abortion on this board?
How do you expect her to know how many women she has influenced with her words?
Or do you think no one is responsible for what they say?

reply from: yoda

That's what I thought about you when I read your attack on some of the most devoted prolifers on the board. But of course, a hater like you is comfortable making such personal attacks, aren't you?

reply from: ProInformed

With thousands of unborn babies being slaughtered per day in the U.S. alone,
the verbal disputes between posters here is IMHO so extremely unimportant by comparison that it doesn't deserve the amount of attention it is given.

reply from: yoda

That's an excellent point, but some "prolifers" simply must assist the proaborts by attacking other prolifers, starting threads just to make those attacks. They even chit-chat with them here on the board, and laugh about how awful certain prolifers are.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

There are only two camps where abortion is concerned. There is no middle ground.
I didn't say I was in his camp. I said that I think it is horrifying to consider a woman to be nothing more than a uterus on legs. Don't you find that horrifying? Don't think about who may or may not have said it. Just imagine IF some person actually felt that women were nothing more than gestation machines, uteruses with legs, with no other purpose in life than to breed. Imagine someone actually having that kind of opinion.
Horrifying, isn't it?

reply from: ProInformed

I guess some 'pro-lifers' think VERBAL disputes with those who commit fatal PHYSICAL assaults against thousands of innocent helpless babies per day (or those who defend, excuse or applaud such baby killing) is a much more heinous and 'hateful' thing to commit...
IMHO it's rather naive to believe that killers will stop killing if others will just be really nice to them. Hey, nobody dared to confront the Nazis with verbal disrespect but that certainly didn't stop the Nazis from killing their victims did it?
Having been a choicist myself in the past, I know that the 'pro-lifers' who are so concerned with trying to not upset the pro-aborts are most likely being laughed at by the pro-aborts.
The pro-aborts keep right on killing babies, day after day, and some 'pro-lifers' think protecting the feelings of the pro-aborts, protecting them from verbal assualts from pro-lifers, is the problem?!?

reply from: yoda

I think it's horrifying that you would support the accusation that someone on this board thinks that way.
So called "mind readers" are nothing more than nasty gossip mongers, and don't deserve the dignity of a civil reply. You simply add to their brazenness by entering into their dirty little world.

reply from: ChristianLott2

There are 5,500 babies being butchered every day in the US and you feel like carping about chauvinism.
Pathetic.

reply from: yoda

Exactly. Some even lament the "pain of having a bad conscience" (a.k.a. feeling "shame" or "guilt") as being so bad that letting them go ahead and have the abortion without the shame would be better. How's that for twisted values?
Say, you are starting to make too much sense!! The fauxlifers will be after you now!
Either that, or they are thanking them in private.
You got it. That's their "value system". Strain the gnat, and ignore the beam in the eye. Yep, that's their way of "saving babies", all right.

reply from: Faramir

It's more than "verbal disputes." It's outright hatefulness that is being addressed, and most of the hatefulness is some prolifers against other prolifers.
You are totally blind if you have not seen the disgraceful manner in which carolemarie has been treated by three alleged prolifers on this site.
But if these verbal disputes are so unimportant, what the heck are you doing here participating in them?
IMHO the hatefulness that has been addressed is very real and is an impediment to the prolife movement, and makes the womb a more dangerous and not less dangerous place--if there are substantial amounts of prolifers like that. I'm hoping that maybe it's just few extremist kooks.

reply from: yoda

You see, Pro, vernon has no time to combat abortion, he's too busy defending carolemarie, who is busy defending proaborts.
And he can only do one thing at a time.

reply from: ProInformed

Exactly. Some even lament the "pain of having a bad conscience" (a.k.a. feeling "shame" or "guilt") as being so bad that letting them go ahead and have the abortion without the shame would be better. How's that for twisted values?
Say, you are starting to make too much sense!! The fauxlifers will be after you now!
Either that, or they are thanking them in private.
You got it. That's their "value system". Strain the gnat, and ignore the beam in the eye. Yep, that's their way of "saving babies", all right.
When I learned the truth about what had been done to my baby, it did not at all comfort me that some pro-lifers seemed to care more about my feelings than they did about what had happened to my baby. I was abvsolutely horrified and totally freaked out by the reality of abortion, that I had allowed myself to be convinced to have an abortion, and that our government and medical profession would even ALLOW and cover up such an atrocity! It worried me a LOT that even some pro-lifers, who knew the truth, seemed to act as if it really wasn't such a big deal, and seemed to be more concerned about coddling pro-aborts than confronting them.
Imagine you were living in Nazi Germany and you just found out what was really going on to the Jews who were being 'relocated', and when you tried to tell others about it in order to get them to help you speak up agaisnt the holocaust and try to stop it, they were really worried about the feelings of the Nazis who were committing the atrocities, or of the Nazi citizens who saw no problem with the slaughter?!? At least in Nazi germany the citizens who new and objected might be afraid to speak up because they might be killed themselves. But although there have been pro-lifers threatened and even murdered by pro-aborts, it's (still) relatively safe to speak up agaisnt aborters.
And really there is no way to appease the pro-aborts by being nicey-nice to them.
They WILL keep right on killing innocent babies, and some trusting mothers too, even if we are careful to speak to them nicely. It's not exactly like they have EVER agreed to even a one-day halt in the killing they commit in order for peaceful discussion to take place...

reply from: yoda

I've never heard it said better.
No, they will never agree to a "cease fire", or any time at all when baby killing is temporarily stopped. Not for one second.
Why should they, with people like carolemarie standing shoulder to shoulder with them, telling them how sorry she is for them? Yeah, they just have their tea and chocolates, and smile.

reply from: Faramir

Did you want them to call you a murderer?
At this point the baby was gone, and since you "learned the truth" you didn't know the truth when you aborted, so they were trying to spare you from being too hard on yourself.
Is that a bad thing?
You're still not getting it.
The issue here is that some prolifers have been nasty s.o.b.'s to other prolifers, including one prolifer who has saved many babies by being compassionate of all things.

reply from: yoda

You just don't get it, do you vernon? He really didn't care, he was devastated by the awful knowledge of what had happened to his child. Of course, that means nothing to you, does it?
Hell YES it is!! We SHOULD BE HARD ON OURSELVES WHEN we become involved in killing babies in any way!!
Nah, that's not the "issue", vernon. The issue is that you are trying to be a hero to your main squeeze, carolemarie. "SuperVernon", that's you, right?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I think it's horrifying that you would support the accusation that someone on this board thinks that way.
I didn't support the accusation, I supported the idea that IF someone felt that way it would be horrifying.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Horrifying, isn't it?
It is indeed.

reply from: yoda

And just by saying that, you lent dignity to the accusation. You joined in the chorus, and now you don't want to pay the band.

reply from: faithman

Snicker snicker... some one gets it!!!! The best thing about this forum has been that real pro-lifers are net working to do real pro-life work. The rest is just squeezing a little amusement out of an insane situation.

reply from: Faramir

I think it's horrifying that you would support the accusation that someone on this board thinks that way.
I didn't support the accusation, I supported the idea that IF someone felt that way it would be horrifying.
When I first came to this board it about drove me crazy the way he would isolate a few words, totally distort the meaning, and then make some nasty comment about the new meaning he made up.
I'm used to it now, though, but if you want to keep your sanity, I suggest you not try to reason or persuade. It's en ever downward spiral of frustration.

reply from: yoda

Thank you for your testimony, vernon.
We all appreciate it when you say anything that isn't just another defense of carole's positions.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, I think I'm going to return sanity to myself right now.

reply from: Faramir

Oh no!
Not the dreaded "iggy button"!
You wouldn't send him into iggyland would you?

reply from: yoda

It's just as well, that's where I sent her. Protectors of baby killing make me ill. I need a break from reading their sewage.
p.s. but I'm not going to put her name on the bottom of my posts, as if anyone really cared who I have on iggy...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Oh no!
Not the dreaded "iggy button"!
You wouldn't send him into iggyland would you?
Lol. Done and done.

reply from: 4given

I agree. It is nothing more IMO another way to create division. In fact with topic after topic being about one's likes and dislikes of other posters, not much conversation is going on about abortion.

reply from: Faramir

I agree. It is nothing more IMO another way to create division. In fact with topic after topic being about one's likes and dislikes of other posters, not much conversation is going on about abortion.
This thread is about "hate" and not about "likes and dislikes."
It was made because one poster has been mercilessly persecuted and lied about by other posters.

reply from: scopia19822

"I agree. It is nothing more IMO another way to create division. In fact with topic after topic being about one's likes and dislikes of other posters, not much conversation is going on about abortion."
Im trying to keep the focus on abortion, but its hard when your being attacked about ones choice of dress to ones stance on religion, marriage and family.

reply from: 4given

Uh-huh. I said topic after topic.. I don't righfully need you to interpret what this thread is about.. You know the one entitled "Hate on this board".

reply from: Faramir

It's the internet and this is an "anything goes" board with no moderation. It's amazing it isn't weirder than it already is.

reply from: 4given

I know. It is difficult to reword things as well (for me, I have to edit a lot of posts for perceived "meanness" factor. If others can they will divert every topic away from the unborn. Many posters here like to turn it into a personal attack, as you mentioned above.

reply from: carolemarie

I don't think it is asking to much for people to refrain from calling me a baby killer in every post and dragging up my past to slap me in the face with in every post.
I find that hateful especially when it is deliberate, unprovoked and constant.
Second, I find it strange that according to the nasty prolifers (and you know who you are) that women know exactly what they are doind when they get an abortion. Yet Pro-informed, Churchmouse and Scopia, all who had abortions were victims of lies and outright intimidation. If you look at the 4 of us, three will tell you they were lied to or forced. That ratio points to the fact that the majority of women do not know the facts.

reply from: ChristianLott2

I'm happy for the personal attacks. It's so boring and abstract otherwise. Let's call murderer who the murderer is. After all the personal attacks made at me you don't see me creating a whole thread about people hurting my feelings. Oh, I forgot. Men don't have feelings.
Carole, lib, bm, rml and a few others support abortions outside life of the mother. They lie about it. Let's not forget. Let's hang it like a sign around their necks.
Is it hateful? Sure. What they support is even more hateful though and above all - lethal.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Don't attempt to link yourself to real pro lifers phony.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I'm happy for the personal attacks. It's so boring and abstract otherwise. Let's call murderer who the murderer is. After all the personal attacks made at me you don't see me creating a whole thread about people hurting my feelings. Oh, I forgot. Men don't have feelings.
Carole, lib, bm, rml and a few others support abortions outside life of the mother. They lie about it. Let's not forget. Let's hang it like a sign around their necks.
Is it hateful? Sure. What they support is even more hateful though and above all - lethal.
If you are insane and stuck in the looney bin you're not really living life. If your pelvic floor is permanently damaged so you can never have children and are incontinent for the rest of your life because you were raped when you were 9, your quality of life is low. I am pro-LIFE, not just pro-I-happen-to-be-breathing.

reply from: Faramir

I'm happy for the personal attacks. It's so boring and abstract otherwise. Let's call murderer who the murderer is. After all the personal attacks made at me you don't see me creating a whole thread about people hurting my feelings. Oh, I forgot. Men don't have feelings.
Carole, lib, bm, rml and a few others support abortions outside life of the mother. They lie about it. Let's not forget. Let's hang it like a sign around their necks.
Is it hateful? Sure. What they support is even more hateful though and above all - lethal.
Nobody should have been attacking you either, but CM gets attacked twenty times every day. That's a bit much...

reply from: scopia19822

"Don't attempt to link yourself to real pro lifers phony."
I dont agree with CM on the "exceptions". However I think she has her heart in the right place, I just think she is misguided. She regrets her abortions, she isnt saying that abortion under all circumstances is a inalieable right. I think of her and other as "mixed choice" as NARAL labels those politiicians who support restrictions on most abortions. I dont support abortion under any circumstances. I am sorry CL2 that you are hurting, that much is clear. Have you ever seen a grief counslour>

reply from: ChristianLott2

That's why I remember you being a pro abort.. because you're always defending them.
I don't get attacked all day because I'm always posting what I really believe, not posting twisted statements designed to mislead. That's what she and the horde of phony pro lifers here are all about. It's obvious to a pro lifer.
I don't know why I attempt to explain myself to a pro abort defender. Maybe I'm hoping you will change one day.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yeah, I'm seeing grief counselor carole right here at camp carole, where most excuses are good enough. Wanna come?

reply from: scopia19822

"Yeah, I'm seeing grief counselor carole right here at camp carole, where most excuses are good enough. Wanna come?"
I was trying to be compassionate. I know all to well how angry you are at your ex and I cant blame you, but that bitterness is going to eat you up and eventually kill you. As long as you are angry your ex still has the upper hand, but if you can come to terms with your grief I think you could channel that energy into something postive and be a real asset to the prolife community. We need to get out that men suffer from abortions too. You cant be happy living like this. The best thing you can do to honor the memories of your children is too live your live. I am sure they dont want their father suffering for the rest of his life.

reply from: Faramir

That's why I remember you being a pro abort.. because you're always defending them.
I don't get attacked all day because I'm always posting what I really believe, not posting twisted statements designed to mislead. That's what she and the horde of phony pro lifers here are all about. It's obvious to a pro lifer.
I don't know why I attempt to explain myself to a pro abort defender. Maybe I'm hoping you will change one day.
I'm pro-life, and not "pro abort." (Do you realize that's not even a real word?)
At any rate, I disagree with CM about a few issues, but she is fighting to save babies from abortion and is a lot more successful at it than anyone on this board, and yet she is called a "killer." She tries to stop women from aborting, yet others lie about what she does, and she is subjected to the most ridiculous nitpicking criticisms.
We should be praising her and not condemning her.
I'm not just definding her personally, not that she needs that anyway--she can do fine without me, but defending the idea that kindness and compassion can save babies, and am opposing the idea that hatefulness is productive.

reply from: Faramir

Yeah, I'm seeing grief counselor carole right here at camp carole, where most excuses are good enough. Wanna come?
PS You're obviously hurting and in pain. I don't know what the reasons are because I don't follow all the threads, but I hope you can soon find some peace and healing.

reply from: ProInformed

I'm happy for the personal attacks. It's so boring and abstract otherwise. Let's call murderer who the murderer is. After all the personal attacks made at me you don't see me creating a whole thread about people hurting my feelings. Oh, I forgot. Men don't have feelings.
Carole, lib, bm, rml and a few others support abortions outside life of the mother. They lie about it. Let's not forget. Let's hang it like a sign around their necks.
Is it hateful? Sure. What they support is even more hateful though and above all - lethal.
Nobody should have been attacking you either, but CM gets attacked twenty times every day. That's a bit much...
THOUSANDS of times per day totally innocent, totally helpless, unborn babies are fatally physically attacked. IMHO that is a much more important issue than whether or not any poster here, pro-abortion or pro-life, is being verbally attacked.

reply from: Faramir

It is also MORE IMPORTANT than whether someone steals $100 from you too, but you should still try to get your $100 back, and no babies will die if you do.
But you are still missing the point.
Someone here who is SAVING SOME OF THOSE BABIES has been mercilessly persecuted, when instead she should be encouraged to do more good deeds.
She is being treated hatefully by a few posters here, who are exploiting the babies that die, and who are using them as an EXCUSE to feel morally superior to someone else.

reply from: carolemarie

So you think "for the babies" I should allow others to abuse and mistreat me? That will save then from abortion?

reply from: ProInformed

Nope that is not exactly what I said...
IMHO whether or not some posters are verbally 'abused' is just not as important as thousands of innocent, helpless babies being fatally physically abused per day.

reply from: Faramir

Nope that is not exactly what I said...
IMHO whether or not some posters are verbally 'abused' is just not as important as thousands of innocent, helpless babies being fatally physically abused per day.
There are a lot of things that are not as important.
That doesn't invalidate them, though.

reply from: carolemarie

Nope that is not exactly what I said...
IMHO whether or not some posters are verbally 'abused' is just not as important as thousands of innocent, helpless babies being fatally physically abused per day.
Maybe if the prolifers wouldn't allow other prolifers to get away with abusing people on this board they would stop. They only continue because the rest of us tolerate it. then we wouldn't have to continue to deal with it.

reply from: faithman

That's why I remember you being a pro abort.. because you're always defending them.
I don't get attacked all day because I'm always posting what I really believe, not posting twisted statements designed to mislead. That's what she and the horde of phony pro lifers here are all about. It's obvious to a pro lifer.
I don't know why I attempt to explain myself to a pro abort defender. Maybe I'm hoping you will change one day.
I'm pro-life, and not "pro abort." (Do you realize that's not even a real word?)
At any rate, I disagree with CM about a few issues, but she is fighting to save babies from abortion and is a lot more successful at it than anyone on this board, and yet she is called a "killer." She tries to stop women from aborting, yet others lie about what she does, and she is subjected to the most ridiculous nitpicking criticisms.
We should be praising her and not condemning her.
I'm not just definding her personally, not that she needs that anyway--she can do fine without me, but defending the idea that kindness and compassion can save babies, and am opposing the idea that hatefulness is productive.
CM is not fighting for the babies, on the contrary, she has vowed to fight against the womb child in favor of their killers several times.

reply from: faithman

Nope that is not exactly what I said...
IMHO whether or not some posters are verbally 'abused' is just not as important as thousands of innocent, helpless babies being fatally physically abused per day.
Maybe if the prolifers wouldn't allow other prolifers to get away with abusing people on this board they would stop. They only continue because the rest of us tolerate it. then we wouldn't have to continue to deal with it.
Maybe if we quit tolerating abortion like you do, the womb child wouldn't have to die. But of course you have done more than tolerate abortion, you have participated 3 times.

reply from: Banned Member

Abortion should never be a precaution to defend the health of the mother. Abortion should simply never be.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Just stop telling everyone you're pro life. You are pro choice to the tee. Go 'help' all the women you want and save all the babies you can. You are someone who can't see the forest for the trees. You make excuses for murder and you lie.
You are not being abused, you are being called out. Now stop lying.
"pro life with exceptions" = pro choice!

reply from: carolemarie

Just stop telling everyone you're pro life. You are pro choice to the tee. Go 'help' all the women you want and save all the babies you can. You are someone who can't see the forest for the trees. You make excuses for murder and you lie.
You are not being abused, you are being called out. Now stop lying.
"pro life with exceptions" = pro choice!
How am I prochoice. I do not support abortion, I work to end it.
I am not your enemy, I do think you should get some help coping with your loss...y

reply from: ChristianLott2

Oh whatever. You are part of the problem as well.
I've got an idea. Let's make you and carole our pro life mascots. We'll put you both on TV and you can vouch for what a great job cm is doing saving all the babies and cm can go on to tell the audience what her version of pro life is all about.
Then all the pro choicers will realize that in cm land, they're all pro life!
Then all the real pro lifers will realize - cm has just screwed the REAL movement and put us back another 30 years.
If you fight personhood, you're fighting LIFE. Go save a bus load of babies. Go save five thousand babies a year. That's still not good enough!
We want it to end. CM perpetuates it.
Fighting personhood then attempting to counsel women not to abort is like pissing on a forest fire. It's never gonna work!

reply from: ChristianLott2

You make numerous exceptions and are against personhood.
This is what I'm talking about. You can't support abortion then claim to be working to end it. Stop lying!

reply from: carolemarie

You can be pro personhood all you want. It will never pass, so it is a complete waste of time. It has been defeated in Colorado, and it will be defeated whereever it is introduced. If it passes, the courts will overturn it.
Even prolife groups opposed it.
But supporting legislation doesn't stop one abortion. You really need to deal appropriately with your loss.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Colorado voted for Obama, cm. Of course it's not going to pass there.
They must not be pro life then, huh? Not that you'd know what pro life is about anyway.
No, it has the potential to stop hundreds of thousands. Millions cumulatively. Forest and trees, slow poke.
I'm dealing with my loss by fighting pro aborts like you.
When it comes to aborting women, the younger the better, right cm? lib? bm? rml?

reply from: ChristianLott2

And again, this is what we're talking about. You lie and deceive. You respond to my accusation that you're against personhood NOT by admitting you do NOT want personhood status for the baby but that it's some kind of strategic decision of yours based on what you believe will have a likelyhood of being passed.
You want people to believe you love the baby, that you'd do anything to save the babies, that you're out there doing for them and not yourself. Truth is, you're out talking to girls because you like chatting with them. You like being next to them while they're making that horrific decision you did three times. The abortion scene is your comfort zone. You get to reenact that little piece of horror over and over without really acknowledging how wrong it is to treat a baby like a piece of tissue.
The abortionist knows while you, rml, bm, lib and the rest are out there you will furnish them with the youngest and most vulnerable of the girls to abort. Because that's your selection criteria isn't it? Abort the young ones. The younger the better. No no, that one's too old. No no that one's already been here a dozen time. Dang cm, bring in some young fresh ones! We love spreading them wide open and hacking up their little insides and spitting them out with a suction hose.
You take the cake. Compassion? You are in dire need of a prison cell. You and your friends are beyond psychiatric treatment.

reply from: Faramir

Dude, I don't know what your problem is, but I wish you would chill. You've been sounding like a first class psycho.

reply from: ChristianLott2

I'm not ur dude or your friend psycho.

reply from: ChristianLott2

The "let's abort the youngest girls we can find" thread:
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=5662&enterthread=y

reply from: speck

He is starting to sound a little like Rick Ellis' Faithman.
Hope he finds the Christian way of dealing with his issues.

reply from: Teresa18

You have posted my exact thoughts.

reply from: ChristianLott2

I agree with fm. cm, lib, bm, rml and the rest of the gang are as pro choice as you can get and are trying to deceive people.
There's about a 50/50 ratio of real vs phony pro lifers on this board. Add in the pro aborts and that's quite a list of deceivers.
Which is your way of saying shut up. How could that be surprising or even construed as insightful?
I hope you find a way to keep your opinions to yourself as well.

reply from: speck

I agree with fm. cm, lib, bm, rml and the rest of the gang are as pro choice as you can get and are trying to deceive people.
There's about a 50/50 ratio of real vs phony pro lifers on this board. Add in the pro aborts and that's quite a list of deceivers.
Which is your way of saying shut up. How could that be surprising or even construed as insightful?
I hope you find a way to keep your opinions to yourself as well.
So much for the Christian way ........

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I agree with fm. cm, lib, bm, rml and the rest of the gang are as pro choice as you can get and are trying to deceive people.
Uh, no, even when I WAS pro-choice I wasn't "as pro-choice as you can get". I have never approved of late term abortions. Nowadays, I do not approve of ANY elective abortions, abortions for rape, or abortions where the child is deformed - as long as the mother's life is not at risk. That is my ONLY exception.
You're just a liar, spreading false information.

reply from: yoda

You have posted my exact thoughts.
Yeah, like anyone cared.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Uh, no, even when I WAS pro-choice I wasn't "as pro-choice as you can get". I have never approved of late term abortions. Nowadays, I do not approve of ANY elective abortions, abortions for rape, or abortions where the child is deformed - as long as the mother's life is not at risk. That is my ONLY exception.
You're just a liar, spreading false information.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Uh, no, even when I WAS pro-choice I wasn't "as pro-choice as you can get". I have never approved of late term abortions. Nowadays, I do not approve of ANY elective abortions, abortions for rape, or abortions where the child is deformed - as long as the mother's life is not at risk. That is my ONLY exception.
You're just a liar, spreading false information.
Yes. That girl's LIFE is at risk. I have not contradicted myself at all.

reply from: ChristianLott2

They have healthy deliveries all the time. Look in the same thread and someone posted a huge list of them.
Prove to us her life is really at risk.

reply from: carolemarie

I think the whole situtation is terrible, poor little girls!
My heart breaks for them, and I honestly don't know what the right choice in every situtation is.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Why don't you do like all the REAL pro lifers and say NO ABORTIONS except in the extreme circumstance of life of the mother?
From the huge list of girls delivering babies at ages even less than ten, why do you, lib, rml and bm still want to abort them? Are you doctors or genies? Why not just take the normal pro life stance? You just have to put in all your extra special conditions so you can be their sycophant consultant.
You are the kind of people who make the pro lifers look bad. You distort and lie.

reply from: nancyu

That's why I remember you being a pro abort.. because you're always defending them.
I don't get attacked all day because I'm always posting what I really believe, not posting twisted statements designed to mislead. That's what she and the horde of phony pro lifers here are all about. It's obvious to a pro lifer.
I don't know why I attempt to explain myself to a pro abort defender. Maybe I'm hoping you will change one day.
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

reply from: faithman

That's why I remember you being a pro abort.. because you're always defending them.
I don't get attacked all day because I'm always posting what I really believe, not posting twisted statements designed to mislead. That's what she and the horde of phony pro lifers here are all about. It's obvious to a pro lifer.
I don't know why I attempt to explain myself to a pro abort defender. Maybe I'm hoping you will change one day.
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
OH! but purple is such a pretty face color....

reply from: nancyu

That's why I remember you being a pro abort.. because you're always defending them.
I don't get attacked all day because I'm always posting what I really believe, not posting twisted statements designed to mislead. That's what she and the horde of phony pro lifers here are all about. It's obvious to a pro lifer.
I don't know why I attempt to explain myself to a pro abort defender. Maybe I'm hoping you will change one day.
I'm pro-life, and not "pro abort." (Do you realize that's not even a real word?)
At any rate, I disagree with CM about a few issues, but she is fighting to save babies from abortion and is a lot more successful at it than anyone on this board, and yet she is called a "killer." She tries to stop women from aborting, yet others lie about what she does, and she is subjected to the most ridiculous nitpicking criticisms.
We should be praising her and not condemning her.
I'm not just definding her personally, not that she needs that anyway--she can do fine without me, but defending the idea that kindness and compassion can save babies, and am opposing the idea that hatefulness is productive.
CM is not fighting for the babies, on the contrary, she has vowed to fight against the womb child in favor of their killers several times.
Yup, http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=4411 as a matter of fact.

reply from: faithman

That's why I remember you being a pro abort.. because you're always defending them.
I don't get attacked all day because I'm always posting what I really believe, not posting twisted statements designed to mislead. That's what she and the horde of phony pro lifers here are all about. It's obvious to a pro lifer.
I don't know why I attempt to explain myself to a pro abort defender. Maybe I'm hoping you will change one day.
I'm pro-life, and not "pro abort." (Do you realize that's not even a real word?)
At any rate, I disagree with CM about a few issues, but she is fighting to save babies from abortion and is a lot more successful at it than anyone on this board, and yet she is called a "killer." She tries to stop women from aborting, yet others lie about what she does, and she is subjected to the most ridiculous nitpicking criticisms.
We should be praising her and not condemning her.
I'm not just definding her personally, not that she needs that anyway--she can do fine without me, but defending the idea that kindness and compassion can save babies, and am opposing the idea that hatefulness is productive.
CM is not fighting for the babies, on the contrary, she has vowed to fight against the womb child in favor of their killers several times.
Yup, http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=4411 as a matter of fact.
There you go cloning the truth again.....

reply from: RiverMoonLady

And again, this is what we're talking about. You lie and deceive. You respond to my accusation that you're against personhood NOT by admitting you do NOT want personhood status for the baby but that it's some kind of strategic decision of yours based on what you believe will have a likelyhood of being passed.
You want people to believe you love the baby, that you'd do anything to save the babies, that you're out there doing for them and not yourself. Truth is, you're out talking to girls because you like chatting with them. You like being next to them while they're making that horrific decision you did three times. The abortion scene is your comfort zone. You get to reenact that little piece of horror over and over without really acknowledging how wrong it is to treat a baby like a piece of tissue.
The abortionist knows while you, rml, bm, lib and the rest are out there you will furnish them with the youngest and most vulnerable of the girls to abort. Because that's your selection criteria isn't it? Abort the young ones. The younger the better. No no, that one's too old. No no that one's already been here a dozen time. Dang cm, bring in some young fresh ones! We love spreading them wide open and hacking up their little insides and spitting them out with a suction hose.
You take the cake. Compassion? You are in dire need of a prison cell. You and your friends are beyond psychiatric treatment.
I don't know how my name ended up in this discussion, but you should remove it from your list of "evildoers" immediately. NEVER IN MY LIFE have I advised ANY WOMAN to procure an abortion. Only once has a pregnant woman talked to me about her unwanted pregnancy, and I told her that she should tell her mother RIGHT AWAY and get good prenatal care.
I honestly don't know where some of you nutcases get your misinformation.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Colorado voted for Obama, cm. Of course it's not going to pass there.
They must not be pro life then, huh? Not that you'd know what pro life is about anyway.
No, it has the potential to stop hundreds of thousands. Millions cumulatively. Forest and trees, slow poke.
I'm dealing with my loss by fighting pro aborts like you.
When it comes to aborting women, the younger the better, right cm? lib? bm? rml?
Remove my name from your list immediately, you moron.

reply from: faithman

And again, this is what we're talking about. You lie and deceive. You respond to my accusation that you're against personhood NOT by admitting you do NOT want personhood status for the baby but that it's some kind of strategic decision of yours based on what you believe will have a likelyhood of being passed.
You want people to believe you love the baby, that you'd do anything to save the babies, that you're out there doing for them and not yourself. Truth is, you're out talking to girls because you like chatting with them. You like being next to them while they're making that horrific decision you did three times. The abortion scene is your comfort zone. You get to reenact that little piece of horror over and over without really acknowledging how wrong it is to treat a baby like a piece of tissue.
The abortionist knows while you, rml, bm, lib and the rest are out there you will furnish them with the youngest and most vulnerable of the girls to abort. Because that's your selection criteria isn't it? Abort the young ones. The younger the better. No no, that one's too old. No no that one's already been here a dozen time. Dang cm, bring in some young fresh ones! We love spreading them wide open and hacking up their little insides and spitting them out with a suction hose.
You take the cake. Compassion? You are in dire need of a prison cell. You and your friends are beyond psychiatric treatment.
I don't know how my name ended up in this discussion, but you should remove it from your list of "evildoers" immediately. NEVER IN MY LIFE have I advised ANY WOMAN to procure an abortion. Only once has a pregnant woman talked to me about her unwanted pregnancy, and I told her that she should tell her mother RIGHT AWAY and get good prenatal care.
I honestly don't know where some of you nutcases get your misinformation.
generally make it up on the fly..... But I have a pretty good arsenal in my case, just gotta get them nuts outa the way.....

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Faithman, you're not even the problem here. ChristianLott apparently has brain damage from his abortion. You should be helping him, shouldn't you?

reply from: yoda

That all depends, do you ever feel "ashamed" at all?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

They have healthy deliveries all the time. Look in the same thread and someone posted a huge list of them.
Prove to us her life is really at risk.
I have never heard of a healthy full term 11 year old delivery, with absolutely no complications and no prematurity. These are risks for even a fully developed woman, much less a little girl who is barely in FOURTH GRADE.
That's right people, think about that. When you were 11, you were in FOURTH GRADE. Was YOUR body ready to give birth back then? Mine sure as hell wasn't.
Proof, you need PROOF that this is a highly dangerous situation!? COMMON SENSE dictates it is such, but fine, if you actually need proof that it is dangerous for children to give birth then I will provide you with plenty.
www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/pop/news/issue_briefs/prev_child_marriage.pdf
This is a PDF. Download it and read it.
http://www.worldvision.ca/About-Us/News-Centre/World%20Vision-and-Canadians/Pages/GivingGirlsaChancetoPursueTheirDreams.aspx
This one is about children being forced to marry and give birth as young as the age of 9, "before their bodies are fully developed" to quote.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Great-Expectations-for-You-by-Mirah-Riben-080703-386.html
"For mothers between 15 and 19, age in itself is not a risk factor" Note that they say 15, not ELEVEN. Hell, I didn't even have breasts at age 11. Or 13. Barely had A's at 15.
http://www.womenshealthchannel.com/teenpregnancy/index.shtml
"Teen pregnancy is an important issue. There are health risks for the baby and children born to teenage mothers are more likely to suffer health, social, and emotional problems. Women who become pregnant during their teens have an increased risk for complications, such as premature labor and socioeconomic consequences as well."
"Health Risks to the Baby
Infants born to teenage mothers are at increased risk for a number of health risks. These risks include the following:
* Teenage mothers are less likely to gain adequate weight during their pregancy, leading to low birthweight. Low birthweight is associated with several infant and childhood disorders and a higher rate of infant mortality. Low-birthweight babies are more likely to have organs that are not fully developed, which can result in complications, such as bleeding in the brain, respiratory distress syndrome, and intestinal problems.
* Teenage mothers have a higher rate of poor eating habits than older women and are less likely to take recommended daily prenatal multivitamins to maintain adequate nutrition during pregnancy. Teens also are more likely to smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, or take drugs during pregnancy, which can cause health problems for the baby.
* Teenage mothers receive regular prenatal care less often than older women. Prenatal care is essential for monitoring the growth of the fetus and the health of the mother. During prenatal care, medical professionals provide important information about good nutrition and about other ways to ensure a healthy pregnancy. According to the American Medical Association (AMA), babies born to women who do not have regular prenatal care are 4 times more likely to die before the age of 1 year."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/3446055/Younger-mothers-at-greater-risk-of-depression-during-pregnancy-study-claims.html
A new study linking young maternal age and depression - not just for the mother but the child too.
http://ebn.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/6/2/57
Since abortion is only about the baby to some of you people, let's continue focusing on it for a moment:
"Young maternal age was associated with increased risk of postneonatal death in full term, healthy infants
QUESTION: Are full term, healthy infants born to young mothers at increased risk of postneonatal death compared with infants born to adult (older) mothers?
Assessment of risk factors
Maternal age <=15 years was the main risk factor."
And in case you need a clue,
"Sex with a child under 13 is considered statutory rape, a crime punishable with a life prison term." People go to prison for LIFE for impregnating these girls; maybe that's because it's a BAD THING.
I'd like to mention one more thing:
"Young girls and women (aged 10 to 19) suffer disproportionately from fistula. Although more women aged 20 to 45 give birth than women in the age group 10 to 19, close to 50% of all fistula cases occur in women aged 10 to 19. In Jos, Nigeria, 45.8% of the fistula cases occurred in primiparous women.[14] In studies from Nigeria and Ethiopia, adolescents constitute a disproportionate number of fistula cases.[13,15-18] In Ethiopia, it is estimated that 3 in 1000 parturients develop fistula, the majority of whom are under 20.[13,19] A Nigerian case-control study of 241 cases of fistula and 148 controls found that 27% occurred in women 15 years old or younger, and 59% occurred in women 18 years old or younger. Earlier age at marriage was also significantly associated with risk of fistula (P < .01).[15]"
Now yes, this is talking about Africa, but the actual point is that the ONLY reason American girls do not suffer from this horrid condition is because they all get c-sections. A c-section is NOT the natural way to give birth. If a girl's body is too small to give birth in America, she has a c-section. That doesn't mean she was old enough to give birth!! It just means that with science we can prevent a fistula from occurring.
Honestly, to say that it is healthy for young teens under the age of 15 to give birth just because we can save them via c-section is like saying it's okay to get yourself bitten by snakes on purpose just because you know an antidote is available. Or a better example: it's like saying it's okay to become morbidly obese because you can just get your stomach stapled.
A c-section is not natural. Young teens cannot give birth naturally. If you can't do it naturally, that means there's something wrong, which there is: THEY'RE TOO YOUNG.

reply from: faithman

....and what makes you think i am not......

reply from: yoda

Man, that iggy button is sooooo cool!
faux-lifer status list: LibRochiO,Carolemurry,bassmamajama,rivermoonie,farismear

reply from: LiberalChiRo

They have healthy deliveries all the time. Look in the same thread and someone posted a huge list of them.
Prove to us her life is really at risk.
They have healthy c-sections. That's not a normal delivery.

reply from: faithman

They have healthy deliveries all the time. Look in the same thread and someone posted a huge list of them.
Prove to us her life is really at risk.
They have healthy c-sections. That's not a normal delivery.
...and you know there is a form of abortion that is exactly like c section except they kill the baby before they remove it.

reply from: scopia19822

"They have healthy c-sections. That's not a normal delivery."
Hey I was a Csection baby!

reply from: LiberalChiRo

That's wonderful, but not normal. A normal delivery is a vaginal head first posterior presentation.

reply from: scopia19822

"That's wonderful, but not normal. A normal delivery is a vaginal head first posterior presentation.'
I am honestly glad I did not have that close contact with my mom. My mom and I dont get along at all. My son was head down, but face up.

reply from: carolemarie

CL2
That is a disgusting and sick post. I do not want ANY abortions. I am against abortion.
I am willing to allow rape incest and life of the mother as exceptions to ban the rest. Just like National Right to Life, the Republican Party of Texas and mainstream prolifers.
You can and shoud support whatever legislation floats your boat. I am not required to agree with you. I think personhood will never pass. Roe gave the right to regulate abortion back to the states. Even if a state passes personhood, the courts will over turn it.
America just got thru electing Obama. Our nation is more pro choice than prolife.
I

reply from: yoda

Just like in South Dakota?
They added rape and incest exceptions to their antiabortion bill, and it lost by a bigger margin than when it had no exceptions.
But at least they didn't give up without a fight.

reply from: faithman

Just like in South Dakota?
They added rape and incest exceptions to their antiabortion bill, and it lost by a bigger margin than when it had no exceptions.
But at least they didn't give up without a fight.
...and they still shouldn't give up. Many were made aware I am sure, and we just need to keep doing what is right reguardless. They should keep on trying.

reply from: ProInformed

Although I do understand and endorse the legislative efforts to at least ban some abortions or to at least ban specific abortion methods (such as partial birth abortions), that does not mean one has to be opposed to legislative efforts to ban all abortions, or opposed to granting legal personhood/protection to all humans from the point of conception. I support both kinds of legislative efforts, and even giving the voting citizens the right to choose the legal status of abortion by referendum votes.
As to the assumption that our nation is more pro-choice than pro-life, just because obama succeeded in taking power, I disagree. A lot of those who voted for obama weren't aware of his extremely pro-abort stance, some even though he was pro-life.
Also, polls consistently show that most of the citizens do NOT endorse the current legal status of abortion, let alone the changes obama will make as he has promised to the abortion industry.
There were those who believed personhood rights would never pass for black slaves either but they were wrong weren't they? Sure it would have helped some blacks if there were say a law passed back then to make it illegal to beat or kill a black slave... but that would not have been enough and those fighting for the rights of black slaves would not have given up at just that concession.
What if it were legal in this country for males to kill female relatives?
Would it be enough to just try to pass laws to save some of those females, but to still allow other females to be killed under certain circumstances? Would you be supporting the legislative efforts that would continue to allow some of the females to be killed as a better solution than an outright ban? Yes, I do understand that a partial ban is better than nothing and could at least start saving some until a total ban can be put into place. But would you think it impossible to enact a total ban? Would you settle for such a concession and not keep trying to put a total ban in place to protect ALL the victims?

reply from: faithman

Although I do understand and endorse the legislative efforts to at least ban some abortions or to at least ban specific abortion methods (such as partial birth abortions), that does not mean one has to be opposed to legislative efforts to ban all abortions, or opposed to granting legal personhood/protection to all humans from the point of conception. I support both kinds of legislative efforts, and even giving the voting citizens the right to choose the legal status of abortion by referendum votes.
As to the assumption that our nation is more pro-choice than pro-life, just because obama succeeded in taking power, I disagree. A lot of those who voted for obama weren't aware of his extremely pro-abort stance, some even though he was pro-life.
Also, polls consistently show that most of the citizens do NOT endorse the current legal status of abortion, let alone the changes obama will make as he has promised to the abortion industry.
There were those who believed personhood rights would never pass for black slaves either but they were wrong weren't they? Sure it would have helped some blacks if there were say a law passed back then to make it illegal to beat or kill a black slave... but that would not have been enough and those fighting for the rights of black slaves would not have given up at just that concession.
What if it were legal in this country for males to kill female relatives?
Would it be enough to just try to pass laws to save some of those females, but to still allow other females to be killed under certain circumstances? Would you be supporting the legislative efforts that would continue to allow some of the females to be killed as a better solution than an outright ban? Yes, I do understand that a partial ban is better than nothing and could at least start saving some until a total ban can be put into place. But would you think it impossible to enact a total ban? Would you settle for such a concession and not keep trying to put a total ban in place to protect ALL the victims?
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

reply from: nancyu

That is the same line you always fall back on. You won't support personhood because "it will never pass" You need to get over your need to win. Just do the right thing. Vote for what is right, and don't worry about winning.
By the way, did you vote for Obama, because McCain/Palin had no chance of winning?

reply from: Faramir

Where and how do I vote for personhood?
How do we get it passed with almost 60% of congress being pro-choice and with a pro-choice president?

reply from: ChristianLott2

eeewwww. sad but true.
Yeah, whoever wants to be off the list, just say you're for personhood and you're off.
It's simple. Treat the baby in the womb as you would (hopefully!) treat the ones outside it.
btw Lib - you've just suggested we should abort all babies who would be delivered by c-section.
You also suggest those girls cannot bring their babies along to at least viability. How awful. Just send them to ms. carole's house for their chocolates and tea We all know what a DIFFICULT decision it is for you and your girlfriends.

reply from: faithman

Where and how do I vote for personhood?
How do we get it passed with almost 60% of congress being pro-choice and with a pro-choice president?
We start at the state level, and work up. We must also have a personhood litmus test when voting. It is not enough to be "pro-life" as we have seen on this forum. The dividing line between faux and true is personhood. You start by patition for referendum. We should also focus on the 16- 17 age group. They will be able to vote in the mid terms. I don't know how FOCA will Affect, but we have allowed focus to be taken away from what is right for far to long. We suport what is right because it is right, not because it looks like it could win.

reply from: ChristianLott2

just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.

reply from: nancyu

just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
..And she should know. She's an expert on everything you know.

reply from: faithman

Including how to kill womb children. I guess that third one was a charmer...
just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
..And she should know. She's an expert on everything you know.

reply from: nancyu

Including how to kill womb children. I guess that third one was a charmer...
just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
..And she should know. She's an expert on everything you know.
donut?

reply from: Faramir

just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
I'll vote for it.
Where do I vote and when?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Click the link in my sig.
You also have to wait for it to come up in your state.

reply from: Rosalie

just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
Your God is okay with insults and hatefulness, deranged fella?

reply from: faithman

You have to get it on the ballot first. That takes real work in real time. If no one is working on it around where you are, then step up.
just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
I'll vote for it.
Where do I vote and when?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

eeewwww. sad but true.
Yeah, whoever wants to be off the list, just say you're for personhood and you're off.
It's simple. Treat the baby in the womb as you would (hopefully!) treat the ones outside it.
btw Lib - you've just suggested we should abort all babies who would be delivered by c-section.
WHAT!? Are you on CRACK? What I said, psycho, was that pregnancy was not HEALTHY for an 11 year old AND that c-section is an unnatural form of birth.
PERIOD. I did not suggest ANYWHERE "all women who need to have a c-section should abort".
An 11 year old most likely can't and that's a sad fact. 15 year old? Maybe, if she gets the proper prenatal care (which is unlikely).
It is awful that a 4th grad child is pregnant and is suffering physically and mentally. But I assume you don't give a crap about her.
"What" is a difficult decision?

reply from: ChristianLott2

God wants us to hate evil. How can we hate evil properly when we're playing nice nice with murdering butchers such as yourself?
No kiddie gloves here. you've never put them on and I don't expect you to.
btw, why bring up the name of something you don't believe in? how do you know I'm not agnostic?

reply from: scopia19822

"btw, why bring up the name of something you don't believe in? how do you know I'm not agnostic"
I guess because of your screenname, she assumes that is your religion, when in fact it could be your name.

reply from: ChristianLott2

It is precisely that I give a crap about her that I know it would be worse for her to have her child murdered.
Or don't you think a child is capable of love?

reply from: Rosalie

This is what an insane fanatic looks like.

reply from: Rosalie

You don't know crap. I hope you never have daughters.

reply from: scopia19822

I dont think CL2 has ever stated his religious beliefs that I know of.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

His religion or lack of one matters not. The man is obviously a sociopath and psychopath. Best to put him on ignore.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It is precisely that I give a crap about her that I know it would be worse for her to have her child murdered.
Or don't you think a child is capable of love?
How do you know? YOU DON'T. You cannot possibly know what someone else is thinking or feeling. It isn't better for both people to plunge off the edge of a cliff and face lifetimes of severe disability; and the woman or girl should ALWAYS have the right to let go of the rope in this kind of a situation.

reply from: scopia19822

"His religion or lack of one matters not. The man is obviously a sociopath and psychopath. Best to put him on ignore."
Hes obviously in alot of pain. He needs threapy.

reply from: Rosalie

Yes, but pain still doesn't excuse everything.

reply from: scopia19822

"Yes, but pain still doesn't excuse everything"
Grief can often drive people over the brink of insantiy and they loose all reason. I think CL2 needs threapy really needs to see a grief counslour. Having lost a child to an unwanted abortion I can empathize with him, but I cant say I know exactly how he feels.

reply from: nancyu

just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
I'll vote for it.
Where do I vote and when?
You Would!?? Wow, you are going to be counted among the haters in no time.
Find out if your state has a petition to consider the unborn as legal persons. If it does, get involved with that, and help to get it on the ballot, so that you can vote on it.
If no one has petitioned your state government, then find out what it takes to get a petition started.
Read your state's constitution. Find out exactly how "persons" are defined. This will help you figure out how the petition should be worded. Gather some like minded people to get this started, and then Just DO IT.
Carolemarie might be right, it might not pass. But like I heard in a country song, do it anyway. It's the right thing to do.

reply from: Rosalie

It's bad that some people here are supportive of his behavior, instead of trying to get him into therapy. Maybe he would listen to those he considers "friends" but all these people do is that they encourage him in this insanity.
And I wonder where the people in his real life... I can only hope that they are trying to do something about it. Because this may not actually end well.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yep. I loose cannon. I scary and crazy. you go home now.

reply from: yoda

You really ought to be careful about making mental diagnosises online, someone might be thinking the same thing about you.

reply from: Rosalie

You really don't see it, do you? I hope there is someone in your life who cares about you and who will help you with your issues.

reply from: ChristianLott2

You really don't see it, do you? I hope there is someone in your life who cares about you and who will help you with your issues.
You help murder babies. Talk all the psychology you want, you will always be a murderer.

reply from: yoda

Actually, she's speaking in "psychobabble", CL2.

reply from: faithman

It's bad that some people here are supportive of his behavior, instead of trying to get him into therapy. Maybe he would listen to those he considers "friends" but all these people do is that they encourage him in this insanity.
And I wonder where the people in his real life... I can only hope that they are trying to do something about it. Because this may not actually end well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM4BBXR4kSQ&feature=PlayList&p=978A374E10E517E7&playnext=1&index=16

reply from: ChristianLott2

well whatever. I don't take advice from murderers even if they have degrees.

reply from: nancyu

just forget it fear-a-smear. we'll never win. doing what's right is just a waste of time carole said.
I'll vote for it.
Where do I vote and when?
You Would!?? Wow, you are going to be counted among the haters in no time.
Find out if your state has a petition to consider the unborn as legal persons. If it does, get involved with that, and help to get it on the ballot, so that you can vote on it.
If no one has petitioned your state government, then find out what it takes to get a petition started.
Read your state's constitution. Find out exactly how "persons" are defined. This will help you figure out how the petition should be worded. Gather some like minded people to get this started, and then Just DO IT.
Carolemarie might be right, it might not pass. But like I heard in a country song, do it anyway. It's the right thing to do.
To follow my own advice, I've been looking at the Maine state constitution.
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/const/
It gets right off to a bad start with a great big LIE:

Some people aren't allowed to be born.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.maine.gov/portal/government/edemocracy/elections_faq.html
Citizen Initiatives
What are the laws governing the citizen initiative process?
The Maine Constitution, in Article IV, Part Third, sections 17, 18, 19, 20 and 22, provide the basic requirements for the statewide citizen initiative and people's veto process. The Maine Election law, 21-A M.R.S.A., Chapter 11, Ballot Questions (sections 901 - 907), provides additional requirements for the Secretary of State in processing applications and drafting the ballot questions for citizen initiatives and people's vetoes. The election page of the Secretary of State's website provides additional information on the initiative process: http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec
How does someone start a citizen initiative petition?
Six Maine registered voters (the "proponents") submit an application to the Secretary of State for a citizen initiative, along with a draft of the statutory language they wish to adopt or amend.
Who decides the wording of the initiative legislation?
The Secretary of State forwards the initiative legislation to the Revisor of Statutes for review. The Revisor's Office recommends changes that will put the legislation in the proper form for a Maine law (according to the drafting rules of the Maine Revised Statutes). The proponents have control over the final wording of the legislation, however, and are free to accept or reject the Revisor's suggestions.
Who decides the wording of the ballot question?
The Secretary of State shall draft a ballot question only if a petition is certified by the Secretary of State as having a sufficient number of signatures and is not enacted without change by the Legislature at the session at which it is presented. The Secretary of State shall propose a ballot question to be submitted for public comment as provided in Title 29-A, section 905-A ( http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/21-A/title21-Asec905-A.html ). After reviewing the public comment, the Secretary shall draft the ballot question that will appear on the ballot.
How is the petition form prepared?
The Secretary of State prepares a petition form, which includes the full text of the legislation being proposed, the initiative summary, a statement regarding freedom of citizen information and cost of ballot questions for the prior year. It also includes instructions for voters and circulators, common reasons signatures are rejected, the circulator's verification and places for the municipal and State officials to certify the petitions.
How long can the proponents gather signatures for an initiative?
The date on which the Secretary of State provides the petition form to the proponents is the "date of issuance" of the petition. Proponents have 18 months from the date of issuance of the petition to gather signatures, however all signature submitted must be gathered within one year from the date the petition is filed with the Secretary of State. If the proponents do not submit the circulated petitions to the Secretary of State by the 18 month deadline, the application and petition expire, and proponents must start the process over if they wish to continue.
How many signatures are needed for the petition to be valid?
Proponents need to collect a quantity of signatures of registered Maine voters that equals at least 10% of the total number of votes cast for Governor at the last Gubernatorial Election, which is currently 55,087 valid signatures. The petition signatures must be certified by municipal officials in the municipalities where the petitions were circulated.
What is the annual deadline to submit a petition to the Secretary of State in order for the question to appear on that year's ballot?
During the odd-numbered year, the deadline is the 50th day after the convening of the Legislature in the First Regular Session. During the even-numbered year, the deadline is the 25th day after the convening of the Legislature in the Second Regular Session. If that day falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or legal holiday, the deadline is 5:00 P.M. on the next business day.
What is the deadline for the Secretary of State to determine the validity of a petition?
The Secretary of State has 30 days from the deadline established in the Maine Constitution for petitions to be submitted to the Office of the Secretary of State, in which to issue a determination of validity for any petition submitted on or before that deadline.
What happens after the Secretary of State determines a petition to be valid?
After the Secretary of State determines that a petition is valid, the petition is immediately transmitted to the Legislature for its consideration. The Legislature may either approve the legislation exactly as written by the proponents or the Legislature may disapprove the legislation. If the Legislature approves the legislation, it becomes law without the approval of the voters. If the Legislature fails to approve the legislation, then the ballot question is drafted and will be placed on the ballot in November of that year for consideration by the voters. The Legislature may adopt a competing measure that will appear on the ballot along with the related initiative.
If the voters approve an initiative question at a November election, when does the new law become effective?
Unless the legislation provides for a delayed effective date, an initiative approved by the voters becomes effective 30 days after the Governor proclaims the results of the election.
When do proponents or opponents of an initiative have to register as Political Action Committees (PACs) and begin reporting contributions and expenditures?
The laws governing PAC reporting are found in 21-A M.R.S.A., Chapter 13, Subchapter IV, Reports by Political Action Committees (sections 1051 through 1062-A). The Secretary of State has no jurisdiction over campaign finance reporting matters. Questions of this nature should be directed to the Commission on Governmental Ethics and Election Practices, which is the State entity that administers these laws.
Is the Legislature restricted at any point in the initiative process from making changes to laws governing the subject matter addressed in an initiative?
Neither the Maine Constitution nor the election laws bar the Legislature from making changes to the laws during the time an initiative petition is being circulated or after a law has been approved by the voters, nor are State Agencies barred from amending or adopting agency rules relating to an initiative, provided they have statutory authority to do so.
Are there restrictions on activities of State Agency personnel concerning a citizen initiative?
State Agencies should review 5 M.R.S.A., section 7056-A, which restricts political activities of classified and unclassified executive branch employees related to partisan candidate elections and, in some instances, to "measures". The Bureau of Human Resources has periodically provided written memoranda on this issue, which may assist agencies in determining what activities are restricted. Additionally, the agency should review its internal policies or directives for guidance, and specific questions about restricted political activities should be discussed with the agency's legal counsel.

reply from: Rosalie

I have never murdered nor help anyone murder a baby. So you're still a liar. A liar who seeks to abuse women.
What behavior?
His abusive tendencies towards women. I'm not surprised you're ignoring/supporting it.

reply from: scopia19822

"You really ought to be careful about making mental diagnosises online, someone might be thinking the same thing about you."
CL2 is clearly in alot of pain and needs someone to help him cope with that grief. A person who is having a hard time coping with grief or loss needs to talk to someone, preferably a grief counslor. How is that making a mental diagnosis? Telling someone who is clearly suffering to seek help is something a compassionate person would do, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that the man is in pain.

reply from: nancyu

I have never murdered nor help anyone murder a baby. So you're still a liar. A liar who seeks to abuse women.
What behavior?
His abusive tendencies towards women. I'm not surprised you're ignoring/supporting it.
Nope, I've never witnessed any such thing. Abusive tendencies toward pro aborts, maybe, but y'all are not people, so you don't matter.

reply from: nancyu

You mean the same way you ignore/support pro abort women's abusive tendencies toward their unborn children?

reply from: ChristianLott2

I have never murdered nor help anyone murder a baby. So you're still a liar. A liar who seeks to abuse women.
No. You support abortion. Abortion is murder. You are helping murder and you condone murder, so you are a murderer. Look at yourself. You are sick.

reply from: nancyu

I have never murdered nor help anyone murder a baby. So you're still a liar. A liar who seeks to abuse women.
No. You support abortion. Abortion is murder. You are helping murder and you condone murder, so you are a murderer. Look at yourself. You are sick.
Ya don't suppose she's gone to find a mirror...

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzqzs1rzV8&feature=related

reply from: yoda

That's making a diagnosis. For all you know, posting here on this forum may be exactly what he needs to "deal with his grief". I dealt with mine for years, without any psychobabbling quacks charging me a payment on their new condo for every visit. Let him deal with his, however he wants to, it isn't your business to advise him unless he asks you for advice.

reply from: faithman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWZ8wjQE_bY&feature=related

reply from: yoda

FMan, why do you suppose the fauxlifers so darned hateful, anyway?

reply from: faithman

WWWWWELLLLLL!!!! It's not so much a matter of hate, but they use up all their love on themselves, they don't have anything left over for anyone else.

reply from: yoda

Well now you know I don't want to be argumentative, but some of them seem to love some of the proaborts.... are they just faking that?

reply from: faithman

Not at all!!! But the self lovers take turns patting self loved backs. It gives them the pretence of really caring about others, but actually they just stand in a circle to pat back.

reply from: Teresa18

In the rope example, if she doesn't let go, she will die. That isn't true with pregnancy. As long as she and her baby are carefully monitored, her life isn't at risk.

reply from: scopia19822

"That's making a diagnosis. For all you know, posting here on this forum may be exactly what he needs to "deal with his grief". I dealt with mine for years, without any psychobabbling quacks charging me a payment on their new condo for every visit. Let him deal with his, however he wants to, it isn't your business to advise him unless he asks you for advice.
"
I am glad that you were able to deal with it without threapy. However CL2 is a time bomb ticking and I can tell that from his posts. I simply told him what I thought would help him deal with his grief, being on this forum can be helpful and one does not nessecarily have to pay for grief counsling, many funeral homes offer it free of charge. I can only offer advice, whether he chooses to act on it or not is totally up to him.

reply from: ChristianLott2

tic toc tic toc tic tic tic .. . . . . .

reply from: yoda

Since you are offering him unrequested advice, I'll offer you some. Don't ever give anyone advice unrequested. It is usually counterproductive to do so, and it just exhibits disrespect for the person to whom you are offering such unrequested advice. ( Except in the instant case, of course, I have no intent to disrespect you.) And they usually wind up very angry at you, and ignore your advice anyway. You just make more enemies that way.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

In the rope example, if she doesn't let go, she will die. That isn't true with pregnancy. As long as she and her baby are carefully monitored, her life isn't at risk.
It's not true in NORMAL pregnancies, but in cases of emergency crisis situations, it is a perfect example.

reply from: scopia19822

"Since you are offering him unrequested advice, I'll offer you some. Don't ever give anyone advice unrequested. It is usually counterproductive to do so, and it just exhibits disrespect for the person to whom you are offering such unrequested advice. ( Except in the instant case, of course, I have no intent to disrespect you.) And they usually wind up very angry at you, and ignore your advice anyway. You just make more enemies that way."
Usually I keep my mouth shut and dont offer advice, but if a person is truly suffering I will speak up and offer options that may help ease that suffering. I have done that with CL2, if he does not want to act on it that is his choice. I will pray for him. That is all I have to say on this matter.

reply from: daveS

"America just got thru electing Obama. Our nation is more pro choice than prolife." - carolemarie
This is the truth, pro-choice has been and continues to be the majority.

reply from: ChristianLott2

and you know what they say about the majority....

reply from: daveS

and you know what they say about the majority....
They have the obligation to protect the rights of the minority.

reply from: ChristianLott2

and who are the most deserving of protection? the small helpless babies who are being slaughtered 5,500 a day in the US.

reply from: daveS

You have to define a baby, when is it a baby? When is a group of cells a baby?

reply from: ChristianLott2

conception. it's biology.

reply from: lukesmom

You have to define a baby, when is it a baby? When is a group of cells a baby?
It is always a baby if it has human DNA. It is all a matter of developement. When is a baby a toddler, or a toddler a preschooler, or a preschooler a gradeschooler and on and on.

reply from: micah

So suppose a baby didn't have human DNA until the 6th month (say some foreign biological process gave it a finalized DNA). Would it not be a baby before the 6th month?

reply from: faithman

So, supose a low life scanc walks into an abortion clinic to kill a perfectly healthy womb child, just so she can beat it back to the corner for the next trick so she can buy 42 pairs of whore shoes? What is she does it more than once? Say maybe 3 times?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It would still be a human being, and here is why:
If that was how human beings came to be born, then that would simply mean that it would be what humans were supposed to be like at that stage in life. That humans are supposed to be comprised of those non-DNA components. That would be what humans are supposed to look like and BE at that stage. It doesn't make them any less human; it simply makes them a human in a different stage of life.
And it is still the beginning stages of what will be a born baby with their entire lives ahead of them. Ending that is wrong.

reply from: yoda

It would still be a "baby" something. But with human DNA, it is a human baby.
MSN-Encarta Online:ba·by noun (plural ba·bies) 2. unborn child: a child that is still in the womb http://dictionary.msn.com/find/entry.asp?search=baby
Dictionary.com ba·by (bb) n. pl. ba·bies 2. An unborn child; a fetus. http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=baby
iNFOPLEASE.com ba.by pronunciation: (bA'bE), -n. 5. a human fetus. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0330371.html
INTELLIHEALTH: "Month 2: Measures 14-20mm from crown to rump. The baby's heart, although not fully formed, begins to beat and is visible. Medical content reviewed by the Faculty of the Harvard Medical School. Last updated August 14, 2004.
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH?t=25666&p=~br,RNM|~st,331|~r,WSRNM000|~b,*|

reply from: lukesmom

And what if the world was flat. (rolling eyes) Can we please stick to the scientific facts and not the impossible what if nonsense?

reply from: Rosalie

This perfectly illustrates the attitude of the women-hating pro-lifers who are in dire need of being admitted to a facility where proper treatment of their sociopathic tendencies can be issued.

reply from: faithman

This perfectly illustrates the attitude of the women-hating pro-lifers who are in dire need of being admitted to a facility where proper treatment of their sociopathic tendencies can be issued.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: scopia19822

"This perfectly illustrates the attitude of the women-hating pro-lifers who are in dire need of being admitted to a facility where proper treatment of their sociopathic tendencies can be issued."
That isnt prolife, hating women or men or children isnt what being prolife is about. It is supposed to be about standing up for the dignty of mankind. Especially those who are the most vulnerable to abused and exploited . It can be the unborn who are the most vulnerable, the mentally ill, the mentally retarded, the elderly, the disabled and anyone else who may be vulnerable.Im also against the death penalty as I believe only God has the right to deliebertly take a human life. Some people who call themselves prolife are as you described and desperatly need mental healthcare.


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