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What is the most sucessful thing you have done to stop abortion

by: carolemarie

Give us a concrete example.

reply from: carolemarie

No takers?
I will go first.
Getting personally involved with a pregnant girl who needed help. We cooked her dinner, paid some bills, did her laundry, really got involved with her and her life.
I think that helped me really understand what some of these girls where going to face if they decided to keep their baby. She needed lots of help. It is easier to just say "don't have an abortion" than it is to take care of the person who wants one.
1 John 3:18 (Amplified Bible)
18Little children, let us not love [merely] in theory or in speech but in deed and in truth (in practice and in sincerity).

reply from: BossMomma

Provided transportation to WIC, Food Stamp and, Medicaid offices, volunteered and donated to CPCs, provided free child care to teen mothers so that they can continue their educations and, provided transportation to prenatal appointments and womens shelters for battered women both pregnant and nonpregnant. I've also helped to host baby showers with the church for needy mothers to be. I've changed the minds of 4 teen girls who originally sought abortions because they saw no way of caring for their children. It's hard work saving babies, though quite easy to just say Abortion is murder and then turn your back.

reply from: Banned Member

Personal intervention. I stopped an abortion, or would like to think that I was a strong influence in the decision. A young woman who I knew had gotten married and had just lost a child due to an eptopic pregnancy. She had also had a previous abortion as well years prior. I reminded her how much her previous abortion still bothered her and that just because one pregnancy had gone badly did not mean that another would go badly so soon. I told that if she had an abortion that she would probably regret it even more than the first. She agreed, never brought up the abortion idea again, and with that went on to have a healthy little baby boy!

reply from: Banned Member

Spinwiddy burns in hell!

reply from: socratease

That's a great story.
I have heard similar things from another sidewalk counselor--that you have to be prepared to offer some kind of solution.
I wish I had a success story, but all I can say is that I have always voted for prolife candidates, and that started in 1980, but little or nothing has come of it.

reply from: Banned Member

I felt that the theorhetical image of damnation might rouse Spinwiddys conscience from its general state of apathy which manifests itself in pro-abortion rantings and murderous justifications!

reply from: Banned Member

An apathetic conscience can lead to many varied evils. I said that your conscience was apathetic. You on the other hand are quite active telling people that it is okay to kill their unborn children! Why do you do that? Do you have a god complex of some kind? Do you like choosing death as a sentence for people whose only "crime" is being a conceived human person?

reply from: lukesmom

Well, back 30+ yrs ago, I (with the rest of my family) helped my mom build a nonprofit organization that provides everything needed from clothes, furniture, school supplies, you name it for families from birth to graduation. I don't help much anymore other than donate my kids clothes. I live too far away. I also share Luke's story in many places to help other families having a child with a poor or terminal diagnosis or to help moms in normal pregnancies see they can overcome difficulties. I will never forget the single mom thinking of aborting who read Luke's story and decided, if I could go through that, she could face whatever she needed to give her child life also. I believe she e-mailed me later that she named her son Luke also.
Right now, I continue to work on letting families know they do have the choice to carry to term dispite what they are told by their doctors, family or anyone else. I work on a one to one basis through the net.

reply from: 4given

Your Mama is awesome friend! I truly have a plan figured out to do the same. Your story, though incredibly sad.. I to this day can not walk through a cemetary without feeling and thinking of your pain.. is an inspiration. I wonder if you will ever know how many lives have been changed as a result of what you have shared.

reply from: lukesmom

I was going to pm you a link to a magazine article about the organization but the site only has the present month online and this article was from August. Oh well.

reply from: 4given

I got it. Hopefully I saved it to file. I am sure we are meant to do what she has with your sister's room. It was/is inspiring. Sincerely. I have the various tools and desire to use them. Blessings to your mom and you for providing the inspiration! We have given countless things away to the struggling in the community. My hope is to take it to the next level.

reply from: lukesmom

I sent it to you? Geez I knew I was prealzhiemers! LOL!

reply from: 4given

Hey I have a bit of that myself at times. I read the article, yes and saw your lovely Mum and have been inspired to do some of what she has ever since. It is a weekly conversation actually. I like your title better than "momzheimer's". I think it hurts her feelings at times. Still works when discussing with the family though. I hope I can find and post it actually. I will look for it. (or you could ask Spinwiddy, who apparently has collected whatever personal information available on you and yours) Spinwiddy. How about you bump the article in question? Thanks.

reply from: yoda

How do you measure "success" in "stopping abortion"?
We don't have the luxury of close contact with the abortion bound customers at the abortuary where we protest, we have to do our "thing" from a distance and hope that we get through. So we don't get much feedback. But there is a CPC right next door to the abortuary, and we divert abortuary customers there from time to time. Hopefully, they will get some personal attention there that we cannot give them due to circumstances. One of our protesters even took eight weeks of training with the CPC, and then at the end of it was told that she would have to stop her street activities if she wanted to be a councillor. Apparently, we "street people" were not acceptable to them, at least at that time.
So there isn't much "concrete" in prolife activism, it's mostly a lot of effort and not much feedback. I help with displays at fairs and expositions, moving a crosses for the unborn display, college campus displays, communications with dozens of prolife organizations (providing information on prolife topics), and of course showing up on Saturday mornings, rain or shine, ice or snow, in front of the abortuary. Who knows which type of activism gets more done to stop abortion, no one seems to be taking surveys on that subject these days. All we know to do is to keep on trying our best to reach out, and hoping that some "seed" will fall on fertile ground.
I think that's the best attitude for doing prolife activism, keep on trying, keep on showing up, and hope you are getting through to a few. After all, this isn't about glorifying ourselves or our efforts, it's about the babies that are dying in the thousands every day. There are literally thousands of worthy charities that one can assist in every large city and at least hundreds in every small town, but stopping senseless slaughter seems like it ought to be the highest priority to me. It's like MT said, in my sig line:

reply from: micah

I love the new vocabulary words used on here by pro-lifers. abortuary, womb-child. They're such wordsmiths!
I think I'm going to invent a new word of my own:
fetii: plural of fetus.

reply from: faithman

Profetii killer..... HHHHHHMMMMMMMM..... has a nice ring to it........ I'll give it a 7 out of 10......

reply from: scopia19822

I was in Roanoke Va at the PP there on the Saturday after Thanksgiving when a young woman of about 20 came with her abusive husband to the clinic. She was about 4 months along and she didnt want the abortion, but he told he if she didnt have it he would beat her and throw her out of the house with only the cloths on her back. He did not want her body ruined by a pregnancy and he did not like kids and didnt want to be a parent. I told her my story and we offered to call the police, SHe declined we offered to call a shelter and have someone come pick up her, she accepted the offer, all this time he was across the lot yelling and cussing. She went to the shelter and I hope that she stayed and can have a safe place for the remainder of her pregnancy and a safe place to birth her child.

reply from: yoda

You ain't seen nothing yet.
How about "Roe-bots"? "Anti-Lifers"? "Pro-Deathers"? Like those too?

reply from: yoda

Excellent! Great work!

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I haven't been very active as a pro-lifer helping women; the one place I would have had a lot of influence on I am now banned from. I don't get out much; I am not comfortable going out on my own to do things while still living at home with my parents.

reply from: carolemarie

How do you measure "success" in "stopping abortion"?
We don't have the luxury of close contact with the abortion bound customers at the abortuary where we protest, we have to do our "thing" from a distance and hope that we get through. So we don't get much feedback. But there is a CPC right next door to the abortuary, and we divert abortuary customers there from time to time. Hopefully, they will get some personal attention there that we cannot give them due to circumstances. One of our protesters even took eight weeks of training with the CPC, and then at the end of it was told that she would have to stop her street activities if she wanted to be a councillor. Apparently, we "street people" were not acceptable to them, at least at that time.
So there isn't much "concrete" in prolife activism, it's mostly a lot of effort and not much feedback. I help with displays at fairs and expositions, moving a crosses for the unborn display, college campus displays, communications with dozens of prolife organizations (providing information on prolife topics), and of course showing up on Saturday mornings, rain or shine, ice or snow, in front of the abortuary. Who knows which type of activism gets more done to stop abortion, no one seems to be taking surveys on that subject these days. All we know to do is to keep on trying our best to reach out, and hoping that some "seed" will fall on fertile ground.
I think that's the best attitude for doing prolife activism, keep on trying, keep on showing up, and hope you are getting through to a few. After all, this isn't about glorifying ourselves or our efforts, it's about the babies that are dying in the thousands every day. There are literally thousands of worthy charities that one can assist in every large city and at least hundreds in every small town, but stopping senseless slaughter seems like it ought to be the highest priority to me. It's like MT said, in my sig line:
I consider being there and showing what abortion does to be prolife. I may not approve of every tactic, like the picture taking, but that doesn't mean it isn't helping people change their minds. You never know who drives by and sees that and becomes prolife.
One of our guys stands on a corner with a dead baby sign quite a few blocks from the clinic. He has stood their for years. A friend of mine use to drive by and see him every day, and after three years she changed her mind and isnow prolife. So he had an impact, even though I wouldn't do it....

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Ever since I spent some time in a shelter for abused women and saw one woman come in directly from the hospital where she had been treated for a miscarriage caused by spousal abuse, I've been donating supplies to the shelter. I know that abuse is often escalated by pregnancy, so I want women, especially pregnant women, to know they have a safe place to which they can escape from their abusers.
The shelter gives them a place to live, legal help, support, assistance in signing up for government programs, medical and dental care and more. I believe that this helps women whose men might be trying to force them to abort.

reply from: CharlesD

A person I had convinced to switch from pro choice to pro life went on and talked one of her friends out of having an abortion. Does that count?
Before I went on the road for a living, I did some sidewalk work in Cincinnati, but mostly I've been behind the scenes. I've done quite a bit of writing and I donate to a CPC on a regular basis. I've been distributing some of the IAAP material that arrived in the mail from Texas, but it's too early to see what kind of results there are from that.

reply from: scopia19822

"Excellent! Great work!"
Eventually when I can raise enough money and I am hoping the wealth parishoners of my church will help is to create a safe house strictly for pregnant women in a crisis pregnancy and call it Sabrina's Place after my daughter. I mainly would likt to target women in abusive relationships either domestic or family and to give those women and teen girls whos parents have thrown them out a safe place to go.

reply from: yoda

Just showing up is 90% of a successful effort.
We have protesters who use all sorts of different tactics, some of which I don't feel comfortable doing, but none of which I will attack. They are sincerely trying to save babies, and that's what I consider the main issue.
Even the Catholics who stand silently across the street every Saturday morning, with one of them saying the Rosary have saved babies, and they don't even try to reach out to the customers. They save babies their way, and that's fine with me.

reply from: yoda

Every sincere effort counts, whether you get any feedback or not.

reply from: yoda

That's a great way to contribute, in several different ways. You can't go wrong helping people in need.

reply from: churchmouse

Is this a contest to see who has done the most? Like Yoda says, many people have made impacts on peoples lives and they dont even know it.

reply from: carolemarie

Nope. It is a place to share what you have seen that works the best.
According to Yoda, that is what the board is for, prolifers sharing what methods they use and what works to save babies.

reply from: Rosalie

You ain't seen nothing yet.
How about "Roe-bots"? "Anti-Lifers"? "Pro-Deathers"? Like those too?
If you could look at it from the outside, you'd realize how hilarious it is to see anyone use words like these and how insane it makes you look. But keep going, you are only destroying the image you are so trying to uphold.
Honest question - do you think that the picture taking helps anyone? It's an attempt to scare off and shame women who go to PP, and who go there for MORE reasons than just to have an abortion. How is this helping anyone?
That's really nice. Good luck.
This is so funny. But maybe you should head over to that thread where I repeatedly posted a picture of an eye and yet no one who previously said they can tell by looking into the eyes of a woman whether she is pro-choice or pro-life tried to guess.

reply from: Banned Member

That sounds like a very good thing, but I have to ask, with no malice, just curiosity...Are you going to require the women go to church & pray several times a day & such? I ask because I saw a documentary once about a home of this type for unwed mothers, but he would only help those who were (or at least claimed to be) Christian. Which isn't very pro-life.

reply from: yoda

Hardly. Yoda has neither the authority nor the desire to say what this board is for. That's what Mark Crutcher said the board was for.

reply from: carolemarie

You have stated that several times, I didn't know you were quoting Mark.
But since that is what the board is for, hence the topic.

reply from: BossMomma

Actually I was using that word before you pal.

reply from: carolemarie

Personally, no. I find it to be a bullying tactic and wrong. I have no desire to shame or humilate anyone. I think that is a terrible thing to do to someone.
I don't really like the dead baby signs either, although I have seen them work. I would not be comfortable using them, except at the abortion clinic. With a caption like abortion does this. Because I have so many friends who didn't know that abortion did that and were sick to find out later what it did. So for education, that is okay.
I tend to focus on reaching the moms coming in and the women after they leave. In fact, I focus entirely on the woman to save the baby. They are the only ones who can. And I care about her if she chooses abortion, I still want to help and reach out to her.
As for prolifers who do things I don't approve of, well, I wish them well, but I will not work with people who will not be kind, or who support bombing clinics or killing people. I do all this because I love God and want others to know him, so it matters to me who I am associated with and what we are doing out there.

reply from: micah

You know whose done the most work for life on here? The answer is BossMomma. Showing up to a pro-life rally a few times a year hardly compares to 9 months of pregnancy and raising kids.

reply from: Banned Member

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Silence Micah!
Sure BossMomma carries all of her pregnancies to term, helped others do the same, braved a loss, faced life-threatening complications, endured the loss of a relationship and underwent two major surgeries within the span of a few weeks - but did she bother to build even one single floatie-boat? NO!
She thinks of no one but herself...
ROTFLMAO!!!

reply from: carolemarie

That is true! She has gone through a lot and still managed to look beyond herself.
Lukes mom too. She has suffered a great deal of loss, and still manges to help other women who find our their much wanted baby has lethal defects and are in shock. Plus raise her other children who have heart problems.
Plus Forgiven, who has her children and is a foster mother to others who don't have parents who can care for them
And Galen who carried a rape pregnancy to term and loves her son and raised him and now who has adopted a baby girl and runs a shelter for battered women.
Lots of the women on this board do a whole lot more than just talk the prolife talk, they walk it too.

reply from: faithman

That is true! She has gone through a lot and still managed to look beyond herself.
Lukes mom too. She has suffered a great deal of loss, and still manges to help other women who find our their much wanted baby has lethal defects and are in shock. Plus raise her other children who have heart problems.
Plus Forgiven, who has her children and is a foster mother to others who don't have parents who can care for them
And Galen who carried a rape pregnancy to term and loves her son and raised him and now who has adopted a baby girl and runs a shelter for battered women.
Lots of the women on this board do a whole lot more than just talk the prolife talk, they walk it too.
...like you walked into a clinic 3 times....

reply from: yoda

It has already save one baby, and it has not cost any babies their lives. That's babies one, poraborts zero. But quite frankly, I could not possibly care less what "texthonest question" thinks about anything, much less how I conduct my activism. Does that answer you question?
And yet, you bully prolifers on this forum, don't you? You'll bully us, but not the people going to kill their babies?
I don't really give a rat's patoot what you or any other wishy washy semi prolifer thinks about my activism, or how may bags of tea and chocolate you give out as rewards for having an abortion. Do you own thing, and leave mine alone.

reply from: yoda

I show up once a week, baby killer.
But any endorsement from you would be poison to me, so thanks.

reply from: carolemarie

Yoda thnks I shoudn't have an opinion on what he does,
But I am not allowed the same consideration from Yoda. I have to do what yoda wants, in fact, since I think we should help women and concentrate on that, yoda decided I wasn't prolife and bounced me from his prolife private thread. Yoda is simply unbelievable.
I think the picture taking is a horrible thing to do. I am entitled to my opinion and I don't care what YOU think of it. It isn't right to try and shame and harrass people to get them to do what you want. You have lived long enough that y ou ought to know better.

reply from: yoda

Cry me a river....... after all, you ASKED to be removed, didn't you?
And I think that handing out tea and chocolates AFTER women have killed their babies is a HORRIBLE THING TO DO!
Shame is a wonderful thing for the self-control people need. People ought to feel shame when they do something awful, like KILL A BABY.
But no, you want them to feel GOOD after they have killed their baby!
Well, fine, I'll just let the "public" decide on that one.

reply from: ProInformed

I'll give a few:
I hosted an unwed mother and her toddler in my home.
I gave info to a couple who were told they "had to abort" their baby girl because she would "surely die anyway". Their doctor had withheld info from them about the possibility of their baby girl living and possibly having a healthy life, plus they had been lied to about exactly how their doctor planned to fatally abuse their baby girl. They were able to choose another doctor who told them the truth. Sadly, their baby girl ended up being one of the babies who was seriously ill enough to die BUT they were VERY thankful that their baby girl died peacefully in the safety and warmth of her Mommy's womb instead of being brutally and barbarically killed by a vicious act of violence!
I stopped defending the abortion industry and started warning other women about the way the abortion industry lies to women.

reply from: carolemarie

Cry me a river....... after all, you ASKED to be removed, didn't you?
And I think that handing out tea and chocolates AFTER women have killed their babies is a HORRIBLE THING TO DO!
Shame is a wonderful thing for the self-control people need. People ought to feel shame when they do something awful, like KILL A BABY.
But no, you want them to feel GOOD after they have killed their baby!
Well, fine, I'll just let the "public" decide on that one.
There is a difference between feeling shame for a deed and someone trying to shame you.
And yes, I do post abortion outreach, because these women may have aborted their child, but what about the next baby? Now is a good time to become prolife, in fact it is never to late! Plus my friends and I want to be able to speak into their lives about the God that loves them and will never ever abandon them! Whatever reasons pushed her into that clinic, we want to be there to love on her afterwards and help her get help. There is nothing evil with reaching out in love to someone who is lost and hurting.
I am a Christian, and that is why I go and help. Without God, people will stumble and sin.
I asked to be removed since you wanted votes on if I was allowed to stay, since I don't do things your way. I didn't want to make people pick sides, that is silly.

reply from: carolemarie

I'll give a few:
I hosted an unwed mother and her toddler in my home.
I gave info to a couple who were told they "had to abort" their baby girl because she would "surely die anyway". Their doctor had withheld info from them about the possibility of their baby girl living and possibly having a healthy life, plus they had been lied to about exactly how their doctor planned to fatally abuse their baby girl. They were able to choose another doctor who told them the truth. Sadly, their baby girl ended up being one of the babies who was seriously ill enough to die BUT they were VERY thankful that their baby girl died peacefully in the safety and warmth of her Mommy's womb instead of being brutally and barbarically killed by a vicious act of violence!
I stopped defending the abortion industry and started warning other women about the way the abortion industry lies to women.
That is great! It must have been very rewarding to help that single mom and her baby! That is prolife to the max!

reply from: BossMomma

Lets not forget Scopia, despite the fact that she was forced into an abortion she still does all she can to donate to CPCs and women's shelters even with her limited income.

reply from: yoda

No one can shame another person, that is entirely VOLUNTARY. If you believe in your own morality, you can't be "shamed". But if you don't believe in your own morality, public exposure may cause you to feel ashamed at being caught. And I think that's a WONDERFUL thing, when someone's conscience actually WORKS!
You have no idea that ALL of them feel that way. A lot of them brag to their friends about having abortions, and probably say "I even got some tea and chocolates as my reward".
Prolifers need to be there BEFORE they go into that death factory, and do everything in their power to STOP them from killing their baby. And if that includes a little shame, so much the better. A little shame to save an innocent life is a very, very small price to pay to save a baby, for anyone who loves to save innocent babies. But if all you care about is keeping them feeling good before and after they've killed, then you really wouldn't care about that, would you?

reply from: carolemarie

And you, who admit you never interact with those seeking an abortion know this how?

reply from: Faramir

I wonder how many women you are encouraging to get pregnant on purpose just so they can abort and get that free candy, CM.
BTW, just curious, have any of your detractors here given you any pats on the back or encouragement for the HUNDREDS OF BABIES YOU HAVE ACTUALLY SAVED, or is has it just been sour grapes and nitpicking over whether you say "fetus" too many times or whether you were nice instead of mean to someone who aborted?

reply from: scopia19822

"Lets not forget Scopia, despite the fact that she was forced into an abortion she still does all she can to donate to CPCs and women's shelters even with her limited income."
Thank you Boss! If what I do isnt considered prowoman than I dont know what is. I have been accused by a certain choicer or being anti woman so many times because I refuse to support abortion. I am doing my Chrisitan duty nothing more, nothing less. I am doing what I can to care for the widow and the orphans and the poor as all Christians are commanded to do. I appreciate the recongnition.

reply from: BossMomma

Heh, couldn't hog all the credit now could I? Your heart is where it should be and that's what matters. You do what you can and no one can ask more than that.

reply from: yoda

By the way some of them, like you and BossMomma, talk on this forum.

reply from: churchmouse

Well it is admirable that she gave birth and is raising her children. She honored God by deciding not to abort. But she still sinned in the eyes of God. The pattern of sin should stop. It should not take a car load of children before ya figure out the sinful pattern that you are living. She coud have aborted very easily and she did not.
Well it is sad that you do not acknowledge the work that other passionate pro-lifers do. The pictures are difficult to look at.......but to say they do not do any good or affect people, is wrong. Pictures make a statement. The pictures from the Holocaust are difficult to look at as well....but they tell a story. And the story that they tell is true. The horrors of abortion can be told through pictures.
And as difficult as they are to look at......you deny the truth by hiding them. I am not talking about showing them to young children. But kids junior high up should see them.
I love what Mark Crutcher has to say about this. He is awesome and his blog on this is exceptional.
The only thing he forgot to add in the intro.....is the fact that even some who claim to be pro-life fit in with the pro-choicer about showing pictures. That is evident by comments shared here.
The blog is titled, Have They No Shame? February 20,2007
http://markcrutcherblog.com/index.cfm/2007/2/

The pro-choice crowd always goes ballistic when pro-lifers publically show the graphic images of abortion. And that is certainly understandable. After all, genocide is more palatable when no one but the killer sees it.
Now, in their fight for secrecy, abortion apologists are saying that we should not be allowed to show these pictures in the public because they may inflict emotional trauma on women.
Like I said many times before, the gall and hypocrisy of these people has no limits.
Let's make one thing clear. The only women who might be emotionally damaged by seeing these images are those who have had abortions. After all, women who have not had abortions have no reason to be traumatized by them. In other words, it is abortion that causes the damage not the pictures of abortion. If that were not the case, the effect of the graphic images would be the same on women who've had abortions and those who haven't. But that is not what happens.
When abortion apologists say that women who've had abortions would not be traumatized if they didn't actually see what they had done, it is just more evidence of the paternalistic attitude these people have toward women. The fact is that the abortion industry survives only because it will go to absolutely any lengths to keep its customers and the public in the dark.
Now if that is not true, here is a way to resolve this whole problem. If the abortion industry is so concerned about post-aborted women being traumatized by seeing these images, why don't they show them to their customers before they do the abortion? That way, the women who might be traumatized could make another "choice" and no woman would ever again be able to claim that she didn't know what she was doing.
Of course, that's the very reason this will never happen. Abortion profiteers know that many, if not most, of their customers would fly out the door if they saw beforehand what abortion really is. That's why they would rather them not get that sort of information until after the abortion is over and the money is in the bank.
The bottom line is, the pro-choice gang has inflicted a staggering emotional trauma on American women, and now they are trying to blame it on the people who tried to prevent the abortions in the first place.
He is awesome.......I love his frankness and the courage it takes on a daily basis to show abortion for what it is.
So for you who want these pictures hidden.......you want the truth hidden.
carole said,
Like grow up Carole, who cares about a private thread. A place to go talk about everyone behind their backs......like a sorority house.....no thanks. Move on......
I agree. But bibles are wonderful.
And you should tell them before the killing is done. They need to be stopped. And if a picture shocks them then that is a good thing. I dont care if it traumatizes them. They do need counseling after, when reality sets in and they need the information on where to go.
I agree as well. And if it saves a baby then it is worth it.
yoda said,
Well good intentions might be there but the focus is wrong. The baby is first. Rewards should not be given.

reply from: BossMomma

Whether or not Pro-choicers agree with me is not my concern. However I do not think pro-lifers and pro-choicers should be enemies, I think that working together we can minimize unplanned pregnancies and make abortion a moot point. I doubt there will ever be legislature against abortion, but with education and resources made more available to women there wont need to be a law to stop abortion.

reply from: BossMomma

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
ABSO-FREAKIN'-LUTELY!
You could not be more correct.
One problem - you can't get the pro-life lunatic fringe to deal with reality.
With no chance of overturning Roe in the next 30-40 years, you'd think they'd be ALL OVER the idea of reducing abortion through sex education (including abstinence education), providing free birth control access to all, providing a federally-legislated safety net for physicians who would provide sterilization to anyone over 18 who wanted it, and providing healthcare, counseling, and legal services to anyong putting a child up for adotion or parents wishing to adopt.
Certain factions on this very board oppose ALL of those ideas.
That is probably the biggest hinderence to stopping abortion, ignorance and maliciousnous is what will keep abortion clinics in business. As long as women feel they have no choice and as long as the fanatic pro-fetal-lifers continue to rant and scream without doing anything of importance to change women's minds they might as well be escorting women to the abortion clinic and opening the door for them.

reply from: micah

The problem is that many pro-lifers aren't ultimately interested in reducing abortion, as counter-intuitive as that might sound. Their anti-abortion crusade is really a facade for something else.
Just to give you an example, which piece of news do you think would make pro-lifers more happy:
1) The reversal of roe vs. wade and a fetus-protection amendment
2) A perfect form of birth control that made abortion a moot point.

reply from: SRUW4I5

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
ABSO-FREAKIN'-LUTELY!
You could not be more correct.
One problem - you can't get the pro-life lunatic fringe to deal with reality.
With no chance of overturning Roe in the next 30-40 years, you'd think they'd be ALL OVER the idea of reducing abortion through sex education (including abstinence education), providing free birth control access to all, providing a federally-legislated safety net for physicians who would provide sterilization to anyone over 18 who wanted it, and providing healthcare, counseling, and legal services to anyong putting a child up for adotion or parents wishing to adopt.
Certain factions on this very board oppose ALL of those ideas.
That is probably the biggest hinderence to stopping abortion, ignorance and maliciousnous is what will keep abortion clinics in business. As long as women feel they have no choice and as long as the fanatic pro-fetal-lifers continue to rant and scream without doing anything of importance to change women's minds they might as well be escorting women to the abortion clinic and opening the door for them.
I agree. I was in a support group for teens that had abortions, and one woman in it said she went to planned parenthood to get information and was told off by a Pro-Lifer. The information she went there to get was about adoption, not abortion. The "talk" with the Pro-Lifer helped her to choose abortion (or she made it sound that way). I'd like to know how people think that helps women to not choose abortion, since it helps some to choose abortion.

reply from: BossMomma

It would be if he weren't constantly brow beating people on a subject he has no clue about.

reply from: Faramir

It's disappointing to see you following up on yoda's gross mischaracterization, churchmouse.
He made it seem as if she was just out there waiting to reward those who aborted, with no acknowledgement that she first attempts to prevent those same women from aborting via counseling, and in many cases succeeds.
There's no chance to save the baby AFTER the abortion, Churchmouse, but there is a chance to save the mother, and that's what her followup work is.
It's very sad you are now calling her acts of kindness and mercy a "reward." Kindness can "shame" someone too, you know. It can break through a cold stone heart sometimes.

reply from: carolemarie

Well it is admirable that she gave birth and is raising her children. She honored God by deciding not to abort. But she still sinned in the eyes of God. The pattern of sin should stop. It should not take a car load of children before ya figure out the sinful pattern that you are living. She coud have aborted very easily and she did not.
Well it is sad that you do not acknowledge the work that other passionate pro-lifers do. The pictures are difficult to look at.......but to say they do not do any good or affect people, is wrong. Pictures make a statement. The pictures from the Holocaust are difficult to look at as well....but they tell a story. And the story that they tell is true. The horrors of abortion can be told through pictures.
And as difficult as they are to look at......you deny the truth by hiding them. I am not talking about showing them to young children. But kids junior high up should see them.
I love what Mark Crutcher has to say about this. He is awesome and his blog on this is exceptional.
The only thing he forgot to add in the intro.....is the fact that even some who claim to be pro-life fit in with the pro-choicer about showing pictures. That is evident by comments shared here.
The blog is titled, Have They No Shame? February 20,2007
http://markcrutcherblog.com/index.cfm/2007/2/
">http://markcrutcherblog.com/index.cfm/2007/2/
The pro-choice crowd always goes ballistic when pro-lifers publically show the graphic images of abortion. And that is certainly understandable. After all, genocide is more palatable when no one but the killer sees it.
Now, in their fight for secrecy, abortion apologists are saying that we should not be allowed to show these pictures in the public because they may inflict emotional trauma on women.
Like I said many times before, the gall and hypocrisy of these people has no limits.
Let's make one thing clear. The only women who might be emotionally damaged by seeing these images are those who have had abortions. After all, women who have not had abortions have no reason to be traumatized by them. In other words, it is abortion that causes the damage not the pictures of abortion. If that were not the case, the effect of the graphic images would be the same on women who've had abortions and those who haven't. But that is not what happens.
When abortion apologists say that women who've had abortions would not be traumatized if they didn't actually see what they had done, it is just more evidence of the paternalistic attitude these people have toward women. The fact is that the abortion industry survives only because it will go to absolutely any lengths to keep its customers and the public in the dark.
Now if that is not true, here is a way to resolve this whole problem. If the abortion industry is so concerned about post-aborted women being traumatized by seeing these images, why don't they show them to their customers before they do the abortion? That way, the women who might be traumatized could make another "choice" and no woman would ever again be able to claim that she didn't know what she was doing.
Of course, that's the very reason this will never happen. Abortion profiteers know that many, if not most, of their customers would fly out the door if they saw beforehand what abortion really is. That's why they would rather them not get that sort of information until after the abortion is over and the money is in the bank.
The bottom line is, the pro-choice gang has inflicted a staggering emotional trauma on American women, and now they are trying to blame it on the people who tried to prevent the abortions in the first place.
He is awesome.......I love his frankness and the courage it takes on a daily basis to show abortion for what it is.
So for you who want these pictures hidden.......you want the truth hidden.
carole said,
Like grow up Carole, who cares about a private thread. A place to go talk about everyone behind their backs......like a sorority house.....no thanks. Move on......
I agree. But bibles are wonderful.
And you should tell them before the killing is done. They need to be stopped. And if a picture shocks them then that is a good thing. I dont care if it traumatizes them. They do need counseling after, when reality sets in and they need the information on where to go.
I agree as well. And if it saves a baby then it is worth it.
yoda said,
Well good intentions might be there but the focus is wrong. The baby is first. Rewards should not be given.
First of all, it isn't a REWARD!
Nobody who had an abortion would consider it one! I was there when they went in and I begged them then to reconsider, but they didn't listen. My concern is now for them and their souls. It is TOO LATE FOR THE BABY AFTER THE ABORTION, a fact that should be obvious to you.
I have no desire to add to their pain or misery. I simply want to tell them that God loves them and that there is nothing they can do that would make Him stop loving them. I let them know that Jesus paid the price so they could be forgiven...I give them a little gift bag, which has post abortion information in it, a bible, and a mug with a tea bag and some little devotionals and sometimes chocolate. And I give them a letter with a number to call for help if they need it. And some call me later for help...., some break down and cry right then because they expected meanness, and received love. That is what God does you know, He gives guilty sinners love and forgiveness...how long to you want them to suffer before they get help Churchmouse? Would you prefer that they die in their sins? Why do the silent no more thing if you don't want to reach out to women with kindness?
If you are wanting to rub their noses in their sins, you don't have God's heart for people. He loves them. That is what they need to know.
I am sure you can find some stones to throw at them on their way out of the clinic!

reply from: faithman

That is a bald faced lie. Yiu asked to be removed, so he honored your request.

reply from: carolemarie

Oh no Fboy! No spin for you!
Yoda wanted to have a vote because he said I wasn't prolife and you said YES DON'T LET HER POST, In fact you offered to pm him your vote and you two had a nice little slander fest aimed at me, while you tried to drum up support from the other prolifers....I just decided to not play and told yoda to take me off...
I just don't think Yoda should get to play off to the whole board that he is this wise and tolerant prolifer, when he isn't. Everyone knows your a jerk so I don't have to enlighten them there.

reply from: rsg007

[to carolemarie]
Though you and I (mostly) disagree about choice, I would like to say I respect you and many other posters on this thread. It is definitely about time pro-choicers and pro-lifers worked together to reduce unwanted pregnancy and abortion rates.

reply from: Faramir

It's disgraceful that over and over others have completely omitted that you first TRY TO SAVE THE BABIES FROM ABORTION AND SOMETIMES SUCCEED. That is extremely dishonest.
But regarding "shame"--in this case you are allowing the shame to come from within, inspired by the compassion you are showing them.
But this is AFTER the fact. AFTER the baby is gone. Not that it's not important to reach out and save the woman too, because she is a person too, and she could get pregnant again, and maybe won't abort again because of your help.
But in the case of PREVENTION of abortion, do you think yoda has a point that the presence of the camera causes embarrassment and shame and that that could lead to a change of heart?
I have not ever seen this tactic in person, so I don't know how it really works out, but I could see that it could engender a lot of resentment too, and make people even more stubborn. But on the other hand, is there anything to lose? If they are on their way to having an abortion, it this a way that it could be stopped?

reply from: BossMomma

It's disgraceful that over and over others have completely omitted that you first TRY TO SAVE THE BABIES FROM ABORTION AND SOMETIMES SUCCEED. That is extremely dishonest.
But regarding "shame"--in this case you are allowing the shame to come from within, inspired by the compassion you are showing them.
But this is AFTER the fact. AFTER the baby is gone. Not that it's not important to reach out and save the woman too, because she is a person too, and she could get pregnant again, and maybe won't abort again because of your help.
But in the case of PREVENTION of abortion, do you think yoda has a point that the presence of the camera causes embarrassment and shame and that that could lead to a change of heart?
I have not ever seen this tactic in person, so I don't know how it really works out, but I could see that it could engender a lot of resentment too, and make people even more stubborn. But on the other hand, is there anything to lose? If they are on their way to having an abortion, it this a way that it could be stopped?
No, it doesn't stop anything, it puts yoda at risk for a law suit as it is harrassment and an invasion of privacy.

reply from: Faramir

Let's say a strip club came into our small town where there are no such things.
Let's say a bunch of old ladies hate the idea, and decide to protest the club and take photos of the customers as they walk in, and post them in the paper or online.
If I were tempted to go to that club, the presence of those old ladies with their cameras, and the thought of the embarrassment and being humiliatied with my photo in the paper or online, might make me think twice about going.
Maybe a lot of guys in my town who would like to go would decide against it because of the camera, etc., and then the place would have to shut down because of lack of customers.
Why wouldn't the same reasoning apply to what goes on at the clinic?

reply from: yoda

Yes, it is a lie. He has expressed no such desire.

reply from: yoda

It's disappointing, but not surprising, to see you attacking me again.
"Made it seem"? What a crock! Quote me, don't tell me how I "make it seem".
Exactly. Which is why such efforts are futile, and even counterproductive, in preventing abortions. By the time that woman is ready for another abortion, all the tea and chocolates will be gone.

reply from: yoda

Thanks. I couldn't have gotten a better endorsement than to be attacked by a true proabort. And you just love carolemarie, right?

reply from: yoda

Oh my, what a tough question..... she has only trashed my photography about a hundred times or so, and now you're asking her for her opinion?
What kind of idiots do you think we are?

reply from: yoda

You won't get any answers to that, and you know it.
But thanks for even asking the question.

reply from: carolemarie

Let's say a strip club came into our small town where there are no such things.
Let's say a bunch of old ladies hate the idea, and decide to protest the club and take photos of the customers as they walk in, and post them in the paper or online.
If I were tempted to go to that club, the presence of those old ladies with their cameras, and the thought of the embarrassment and being humiliatied with my photo in the paper or online, might make me think twice about going.
Maybe a lot of guys in my town who would like to go would decide against it because of the camera, etc., and then the place would have to shut down because of lack of customers.
Why wouldn't the same reasoning apply to what goes on at the clinic?
You can't be sued for filming people walking into a building that is open to the public. The courts have ruled that since it is public you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
So it is legal...
As for the strip club, that has been done before. They don't close down. Some of the people harden their hearts to you because of that. So it is still wrong for the same reasons. Shaming people is wrong, or rather attempting to shame them. You can break up a marriage, or cause all kinds of trouble. It strikes me that people who do this, are usually self righteous judgmental types, who judge their sins as not as bad as those they are filming.
If you interject yourself into someone elses life, you have to care about them. If you care about people you try not to hurt them.
It's all in the way you do it.

reply from: Witness

Remember these:
One mother went into the abortuary eying us curiously. I called out asking her if she wouldn't rather have a handmade baby blanket and cuddle her child instead of killing it. She went on in, but had her friend come out to ask if it were really true. My "yes" brought her out almost immediately. She had been under the misguided assumption that no one really cared what happened to her or her child. We gave her multiple blankets, lots of clothes, and other assistance. She would surely have aborted her child that day had we not been onsite. This mother thanked us that day and others, because she came by at least a couple more times to let us know how much she appreciated our being there. (By the way, we've had several mothers tell us they just didn't think anyone cared.)
Another incident involved a grandmother who brought her daughter in. Until she heard us calling to her, she hadn't stopped to think about it being her grandchild that she wanted aborted. All it took was the statement that the child in the womb is one-of-a-kind and irreplaceable. As it turned out, it was two unique individuals -- twins. And when the grandmother did stop to think, she also discovered her daughter in no way wanted to abort her children. What a disaster we adverted that day. Two wanted children would have died and mother and daughter would have had serious issues between them. They gratefully took blankets and thanked us repeatedly for saving their children.
One man brought his lady in, dumped her, and hastily beat his retreat. On the way out, he paused long enough for me to ask what he thought he was doing. He smilingly assured me he was just the "chauffeur". I smiled back as I asked him if I really looked that stupid and if he thought Jesus would approve. (Before you start, no, I don't always ask this. It just seemed the right thing at the time.) He laughed and drove off. A little later he came back and pulled up alongside where we were standing. I went over and we began to have a very pleasant conversation about right, wrong, and Christianity. After constantly insisting he had no control over the situation, he finally admitted it was his child and the mother did not want to abort. Further, it was only at his insistence that she was even there. I really didn't have to say much at that point. A look of "excuse me?" seemed enough. He went right in, brought her right out, and thanked us profusely for being there. Now what do say about this mother? She hadn't been given a choice. But, thanks to the onsite witness, she did get one before it was too late.
Another young man was afraid of the consequences - both of killing his child and of not hiding his indiscretion. He drove by me repeatedly, stopping almost every time to talk just a little. He was shaking like a leaf and chain smoking. Finally, he stopped and asked me just what he should do. Our previous conversations had revealed the guilt of forcing his girlfriend to kill his child was literally tearing him apart. I won't post all of our conversation here, because it was lengthy. But the reality was that he was a God fearing young man who couldn't have lived with himself had he gone through it the abortion. His girlfriend in no way wanted one anyway. My presence reminded him of his Godly grandmother which made him realize that life was the only choice he could deal with. Although I did tell him to go get her out, it was the decision he had obviously wanted to make all along. He and his grateful girlfriend came out thanking us for caring enough to be there for them.
Still another incident involved an Asian mother who couldn't understand how there could be "so much blood" (on seeing an aborted child on the "Truth Truck"). She kept saying just that to herself over and over again. She honestly thought that the child she carried was just a fleshy blob. She believed the "life" was in the blood, but she was operating under the assumption that there would be any. She drove up and started talking to us about the picture - asking if that were really an aborted child. We assured her it was. If we hadn't been there to discuss this with her, she may have just gone on in. Can you imagine her guilt if she hadn't found out until it was too late? Given her state of horror when we spoke, I think it may well have been more than she could have borne. As it was she left crying and shaking from the mistake she almost made, but thanking us gratefully for being there.
There was the mother who rode the bus through several states to get here for a "free" abortion. This woman obviously had serious mental issues. She had no money and no place to stay. And she was all alone. She came walking into the abortuary and asking that the abortionist do the procedure for free. Of course, he promptly showed her the door. We spent days trying to help this woman. In the end, her needs were met - clothes, food, etc. and one of her relatives offered to adopt her child. Although she went into the abortuary several times, they always just turned her away. Given her obvious mental anguish, there's no telling what would have happened to her had no one been there for her. Her relatives, who apparently did not know she had gone for the abortion, were very grateful that we had cared for her.
Blankets, being on-site willing to help, poetry, art . . . all things I've seen work splendidly. But the single most important ingredient is telling mothers the TRUTH.
Abortion is about money and power. The only thing it really has to do with women's rights is the ability to use that catch phrase to ensalve us to our sexual side and thereby attempt to manipulate us into killing our children.

reply from: micah

Because declining to go to a porn shop will result in a lost PlayBoy. Declining to go to Planned Parenthood will result in a 9-month pregnancy and 18 years of raising a kid.

reply from: faithman

Let's say a strip club came into our small town where there are no such things.
Let's say a bunch of old ladies hate the idea, and decide to protest the club and take photos of the customers as they walk in, and post them in the paper or online.
If I were tempted to go to that club, the presence of those old ladies with their cameras, and the thought of the embarrassment and being humiliatied with my photo in the paper or online, might make me think twice about going.
Maybe a lot of guys in my town who would like to go would decide against it because of the camera, etc., and then the place would have to shut down because of lack of customers.
Why wouldn't the same reasoning apply to what goes on at the clinic?
You can't be sued for filming people walking into a building that is open to the public. The courts have ruled that since it is public you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
So it is legal...
As for the strip club, that has been done before. They don't close down. Some of the people harden their hearts to you because of that. So it is still wrong for the same reasons. Shaming people is wrong, or rather attempting to shame them. You can break up a marriage, or cause all kinds of trouble. It strikes me that people who do this, are usually self righteous judgmental types, who judge their sins as not as bad as those they are filming.
If you interject yourself into someone elses life, you have to care about them. If you care about people you try not to hurt them.
It's all in the way you do it.
This is where the killer of three is just dead wrong again. We closed a porno shop exactly that way. We documented the entrance of local"christian" collage students going in, and sent the information to the school and their parents. The presents of cameras most assuredly caused customers to shy away, and the store eventually closed because of a lack of business primarily due to our presents. The only reason you say shame does not work, is because you have not totally delt with your own for killing 3 yourself.

reply from: CreazioniSacre

Your individual and group efforts are incredible!! Hopefully, this project will become one of the most meaningful things ALL of US can easily agree upon as being a successful step to stopping abortions.... http://www.stoptheabortions.org
We come from all walks of life, each with varying commitments to the literally 1000's of Pro-Life initiatives and approaches to achieving the goal of ending the right to an abortion. We seek to form a coaltiion from the 1000's of groups to simply sign a petition to be sent to EVERY federally elected official (Congress and the Senate) as well as Chief Justices of the Supreme Court and the President. The petition will have a goal of 100 million names, the largest attempt ever undertaken to ensure that our One Nation, Under God, ensures that Our Lords Commandments and His Creations are upheld by our Constitution. Thank you for checking out the site and please, SIGN the peitition, Become a Member (it's FREE!) or make a donation to help us meet our goal.
Have a Great Day.

reply from: BossMomma

Let's say a strip club came into our small town where there are no such things.
Let's say a bunch of old ladies hate the idea, and decide to protest the club and take photos of the customers as they walk in, and post them in the paper or online.
If I were tempted to go to that club, the presence of those old ladies with their cameras, and the thought of the embarrassment and being humiliatied with my photo in the paper or online, might make me think twice about going.
Maybe a lot of guys in my town who would like to go would decide against it because of the camera, etc., and then the place would have to shut down because of lack of customers.
Why wouldn't the same reasoning apply to what goes on at the clinic?
Look at the abortion rates, it doesn't stop anything. All yoda is doing is setting himself up for a law suit which he very much deserves. Plus not all women go to these clinics to have an abortion, some go for pap smears, others go for contraception or STD testing and treatment.
It's defamation of character to post up pictures of these women in an attempt to intimidate them, especially when you have no idea why they are at the clinic. I remember when I had to go to PP to get prenatal care with my first pregnancy until my medicaid came in, the worst part of the experience were the idiots protesting outside. That Planned Parenthood didn't even offer abortion services.
One guy even yelled at me not to kill my baby when I went in then started crying when I came out and yelled You killed it didn't you?! Murderer! I had a plastic tote bag full of prenatal vitamins, magazines and a referal to an OB/GYN. I was highly insulted and promptly gave the moron the finger and walked home.

reply from: faithman

Let's say a strip club came into our small town where there are no such things.
Let's say a bunch of old ladies hate the idea, and decide to protest the club and take photos of the customers as they walk in, and post them in the paper or online.
If I were tempted to go to that club, the presence of those old ladies with their cameras, and the thought of the embarrassment and being humiliatied with my photo in the paper or online, might make me think twice about going.
Maybe a lot of guys in my town who would like to go would decide against it because of the camera, etc., and then the place would have to shut down because of lack of customers.
Why wouldn't the same reasoning apply to what goes on at the clinic?
Look at the abortion rates, it doesn't stop anything. All yoda is doing is setting himself up for a law suit which he very much deserves. Plus not all women go to these clinics to have an abortion, some go for pap smears, others go for contraception or STD testing and treatment.
It's defamation of character to post up pictures of these women in an attempt to intimidate them, especially when you have no idea why they are at the clinic. I remember when I had to go to PP to get prenatal care with my first pregnancy until my medicaid came in, the worst part of the experience were the idiots protesting outside. That Planned Parenthood didn't even offer abortion services.
One guy even yelled at me not to kill my baby when I went in then started crying when I came out and yelled You killed it didn't you?! Murderer! I had a plastic tote bag full of prenatal vitamins, magazines and a referal to an OB/GYN. I was highly insulted and promptly gave the moron the finger and walked home.
Maybe in la la land where you reside some of what you say might be true. But it is a fact that there are less than half of the free standing abortion clinics still open than there were in '92. Many of these clinics were closed because of preasure put on them by groups like Operation recue west, missionaries to the pre-born, and the like. They picketed clinics, and clinic workers homes, churches, and service clubs. I have heard personally an ex-abortionist say that they quit because of such efforts. Your hurt feelings are not the same as abortion. You can get over your feelings, but a womb child never gets over abortion.

reply from: yoda

My photography might result in saving a life?
And that's what you want to prevent, isn't it? You are "Death's Little Friend", aren't you?

reply from: yoda

Can't say I've ever heard of your organization, but the website looks good. For myself, I don't get involved with prolife organizations until I've checked them out thoroughly. Some proaborts have put up phony websites to drain off prolife dollars.
But assuming you are legit, and the website is also, welcome to the forum.

reply from: ProInformed

The abortion industry hands out contraception for self-serving purpose:
http://prolifeaction.org/providers/appleton.htm

reply from: ProInformed

How do you measure "success" in "stopping abortion"?
We don't have the luxury of close contact with the abortion bound customers at the abortuary where we protest, we have to do our "thing" from a distance and hope that we get through. So we don't get much feedback. But there is a CPC right next door to the abortuary, and we divert abortuary customers there from time to time. Hopefully, they will get some personal attention there that we cannot give them due to circumstances. One of our protesters even took eight weeks of training with the CPC, and then at the end of it was told that she would have to stop her street activities if she wanted to be a councillor. Apparently, we "street people" were not acceptable to them, at least at that time.
So there isn't much "concrete" in prolife activism, it's mostly a lot of effort and not much feedback. I help with displays at fairs and expositions, moving a crosses for the unborn display, college campus displays, communications with dozens of prolife organizations (providing information on prolife topics), and of course showing up on Saturday mornings, rain or shine, ice or snow, in front of the abortuary. Who knows which type of activism gets more done to stop abortion, no one seems to be taking surveys on that subject these days. All we know to do is to keep on trying our best to reach out, and hoping that some "seed" will fall on fertile ground.
I think that's the best attitude for doing prolife activism, keep on trying, keep on showing up, and hope you are getting through to a few. After all, this isn't about glorifying ourselves or our efforts, it's about the babies that are dying in the thousands every day. There are literally thousands of worthy charities that one can assist in every large city and at least hundreds in every small town, but stopping senseless slaughter seems like it ought to be the highest priority to me. It's like MT said, in my sig line:
And sometimes you even get through to the abortion industry employees:
http://prolifeaction.org/providers/appleton.htm

reply from: yoda

"Know the truth, and the truth shall set you free". If some woman divorces her husband because he was secretly going to a strip club, then the truth will set her free of a man she did not want to be with, and who did not deserve her trust.
Making the dark secrets that people hide is never wrong, and shame is never wrong. Shame is one of the good emotions, a lack of shame is disgusting. That's where the old saying came from "shameless".

reply from: yoda

That is true. Mark Crutcher has special materials for doing that. Sadly, we do not get to converse with them as the rush into the door every Saturday morning, except that some of the other protester implore them to find a decent job.

reply from: ProInformed

And the wealthy, powerful abortion industry uses 'clinic escorts' to try to make sure the pregnant women remain isolated long enough to go through with buying an abortion. THE purpose of the clinic escorts is to protect abortion profits - NOT to protect the pregnant women or their babies - the pro-lifers are the ones who are trying to protect the mothers and babies.

reply from: scopia19822

"And the wealthy, powerful abortion industry uses 'clinic escorts' to try to make sure the pregnant women remain isolated long enough to go through with buying an abortion. THE purpose of the clinic escorts is to protect abortion profits - NOT to protect the pregnant women or their babies - the pro-lifers are the ones who are trying to protect the mothers and babies."
Those clinic escorts are the accomplices of those men who force their wives/girlfriends to abort. They are there to protect his interest not hers, hence they are protecting profits.

reply from: ProInformed

For the past couple of generations there has been a myth promoted in our culture that there is such a thing as 'free sex'. But the lives of thousands of unborn babies are sacrificed each day, plus an occasional mother who dies from abortion complications, as part of the real cost of so-called 'free sex'.
When a pregnant woman goes into an abortion clinic, there are two humans going in - the mother and her baby. Typically only one comes back out alive - and sometimes neither survives the abortion. When women decline to go into an abortion clinic, stand up to the pressures put on them to let an abortionist kill their own baby, refuse to 'choose' abortion... one, or two, human lives are saved.
And are you SO ignorant that you have never even heard of adoption?!?
Or are you flat out lying when you claim that refusing to go through with an abortion means the mother will have to raise a child for 18 years?

reply from: scopia19822

"Or are you flat out lying when you claim that refusing to go through with an abortion means the mother will have to raise a child for 18 years?"
Adoption?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

"Know the truth, and the truth shall set you free". If some woman divorces her husband because he was secretly going to a strip club, then the truth will set her free of a man she did not want to be with, and who did not deserve her trust.
Making the dark secrets that people hide is never wrong, and shame is never wrong. Shame is one of the good emotions, a lack of shame is disgusting. That's where the old saying came from "shameless".
Being ashamed is NOT always a good thing. If someone is ashamed of their perfectly normal body, for instance. or if they are ashamed to be a girl, or to be of a certain race. We should NOT be ashamed of those things. People who are proud to be latino or white or black or asian are NOT disgusting.

reply from: Faramir

Thank God in the Catholic Church we can keep our sins a secret and even the priest to whom we confess them vows to do the same.
Not all dark secrets need to be exposed, or published on the internet, and sometimes God is the only one who needs to know.
The problem with this "shame" appoach is not the shame, but the person who is trying to force it. The potential "shamee," if he or she does not see any love or kindness behind the exposure, will only see it as cruelty, and will not be ashamed, but will harden his or her heart all the more. All they will see is somone on an ego trip trying to feel superior at their expense.

reply from: scopia19822

"Being ashamed is NOT always a good thing."
I agree. IMHO it depends on the sitiuation. Am I ashamed that I committed adultery? Yes and I should be. Am I ashamed that I fornicated in my past? Yes.

reply from: ProInformed

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You knew about adoption yet you chose abortion.
Why don't you tell us?
You already know - I've already told you before.
I was lied to by the 'couselor' at the clinic that I went to for the pregnancy test.
When she saw that I was not planning to abort she told me that there was a medical problem revealed by the blood test that meant that me and/or my baby would die if I did not abort.
I did not abort because I didn't know about adoption or because I wanted my baby to be killed - only because I was lied to by an aboriton industry employee who ONLY cared about making an abortion sale.
All you are doing spinfibby is revealing once again that your pretense to care about women is a total farce.
Vile traitorous females like you convince women the clinics can be trusted,
then you make fun of the women who trusted you and the clinics.
Women pay attention: spinfibby's fake concern for women is just a flimsy facade that she hides her total disregard for women behind. OBVIOUSLY she only cares about defending the abortion industry while working to con more women into trusting abortion clinics, the same women she will then attack and insult later.

reply from: Hosea

I do a lot of volunteering at pregnancy help centers. I donate clothes and money to Pregnancy help centers. My husband and I fund raised money and renovated a nice large distribution center for our pregnancy center to give maternity, infant and children's items to those in need. I have assisted many women and girls with unplanned pregnancies. I have offered to house girls that have said their parents will kick them out if they tell them they are pregnant. I have been mentoring a young woman for 12 years who I started helping at a local pregnancy help center.
I am a presenter in Cincinnati, Dayton, and northern Kentucky. My presentation is called, "The Only Real Choice is an Educated Choice." I primarily speak in high schools. I explain baby development and the choices in a pregnancy. I talk about parenting, adoption, and abortion. I describe how various abortion procedures are done at various stages in pregnancy. I have girls who changed their mind about having an abortion after seeing my presentation. I have had others who talked their friends out of an abortion after hearing my presentaion. I never wanted to be a pro-life speaker. You know they say God doesn't call the qualified, He qulifies the called. I felt called to do this and God has blessed my obedience. I average about 93-95% of my students call themselves pro-life after my presentation. My most successful would be two years ago when 100% of the girls I spole to at Seton High School said they were pro-life after my presentation.

reply from: faithman

We have made several development picture boards from the images in my sig. We have given them free to folks who do the same kind of work, and they report the same kind of results. The work you are doing is some of the most important, and effective, pro-life activism there is. Just a simple presentation of development pictures conects people emotionally to our common humanity with the womb child. GREAT JOB!!!

reply from: Hosea

We have made several development picture boards from the images in my sig. We have given them free to folks who do the same kind of work, and they report the same kind of results. The work you are doing is some of the most important, and effective, pro-life activism there is. Just a simple presentation of development pictures conects people emotionally to our common humanity with the womb child. GREAT JOB!!!
Thanks you for your supportive words.

reply from: churchmouse

And your crowd........just thinks its ok for the killing to keep continuing. THIS IS THE REALITY SWEETIE.
ABORTION IS THE MURDER OF AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING. WE DONT NEED BABY STEPS, WE DONT NEED TO WALK ON PINS AND NEEDLES AND PRETEND WE ARE HAPPY WITH THE SLAUGHTER GOING ON JUST TO MAKE PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE PASSIONLESS FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS GETTING DONE.
Abortion made illegal. All abortion mills closed.
A teen woman or girl, what is it?
This story is poppycock. To blame a pro-lifer because the girl wanted adoption but got an abortion because she was mad......yea right.
You guys will stoop to anything to blame those that really stand up for the unborn.
Anti-sex? God created sex for procreation and enjoyment for the MARRIED husband and wife.
So loose sex like you are condoning is ungodly.
I doubt you would do that......you like to argue to much. And if you do.....I guess you cant handle what they have to say. If ya cant take the heat.......
You talk about throwing stones? You have a right to judge their actions as we have a right to judge yours. And what was it called when you had how many children out of wedlock? Sure it was honorable that you did not abort them.....but didnt you sin as well?
Bossmomma and spinwiddy have never had abortions and they are here talking about abortion..... should they leave? And if you have never had an abortion then why are you here?
Faramir said,
Kindness can also be in the form of a hug, smile or handshake. I commend her for handing out bibles. But the more I got thinking about it, chocolates and a mug......isnt just being kind, its more and it just might give out the wrong message. Not unless the mug has the Silent No More logo and phonenumber on it.
God breaks through hearts. We need to witness not only to the women who go into these abortion mills but the nurses and the doctors who perform them.
Carole might not think the chocolates are a reward.....but chocolate has a sweet taste and is a luxury. It is a treat. That is not what women should recieve after killing their child. Valentines Day and chocolate go hand in hand......chocolate and abortion do not.
YOU CAN REACH PEOPLE WITHOUT GADGETS AND TOKENS. Christ didnt give out treats Carole. He preached with nothing but His mouth. Bibles are ok........the chocolates are NOT.
If you give them bibles and information about post support groups that is commendable. I dont like the edible treats.
Christ doesnt want anyone to suffer and I don't either. But he punishes and who knows what it takes before someone comes to Christ. For some they have to hit rock bottom. And if that is the only way people will come to Christ, then so be it. There is nothing wrong with shame. We should feel shame when we sin.
Like I told you about my daughters friend. We sobbed together. I did everything but stand on my head to try to stop her. We sat for hours......I was exhausted. I know she was suffering. And I know her.....she will suffer down the road. And I am glad......because maybe through her suffering she will finally ask God into her heart.
I do it like you do to reach woman who have had abortions that regret them. We minister to them and present the gospel message.
I also work at Right To Life. I always talk in kindness.
I have however been in a few arguments with mockers. I never yell but am firm.
Rub their noses in it? Please.
I don't yell.......I do not scream........I talk with love, firm, hardhitting words that let them know God loves them, BUT THAT THEY KILLED THEIR UNBORN CHILD. THEY NEED TO KNOW THAT THEY KILLED, MURDERED AND THAT THEIR ACTIONS WERE SINFUL. To do anything less is not sharing what God told you to share. That people will die in their sins, if they do not see their evilness and repent is what you should tell them.
I would never do that. Well maybe you could also add some colorful balloons to your goodie bag, eh?
Boy your true colors really show here carole.......LOL
How can you be sued for being on public property and filming something? What is he doing that is illegal?
Faramir you make a good point .........cameras might shame women from going in.......delaying it......possibly change their minds.
CArole just thinks her way is perfect and all others are wrong. And if we dont agree with her entire method.......we are wrong, we are throwing stones.
The truth hurts carole. And I wish like hell that someone would have tackled me to the ground and kicked my ass to stop me from going into that abortion mill. I wish someone had shared the truth with me. I don't care how they woulld have done it.....I just wish it had happened. So if you are that self-righteous to think that no other way works.....well so be it.
As I said, the bibles are fine.........THE CHOCOLATES AND TEA ARE TREATS.

reply from: Faramir

Once again you are being dishonest.
Don't you know that these same women that you say she gives treats to THAT SHE PREVIOUSLY BEGGED TO NOT ABORT!!???
You have totally mischarcterized what she does.
She attempts to stop these same women BEFORE THEY ABORT.
AFTER they abort, she is trying to reach these women and help them.
You might not like what she does, but it's not right to keep pretending she doesn't try to stop them from aborting, and she has had much more success in stopping women from aborting than anyone else here.

reply from: faithman

Once again you are being dishonest.
Don't you know that these same women that you say she gives treats to THAT SHE PREVIOUSLY BEGGED TO NOT ABORT!!???
You have totally mischarcterized what she does.
She attempts to stop these same women BEFORE THEY ABORT.
AFTER they abort, she is trying to reach these women and help them.
You might not like what she does, but it's not right to keep pretending she doesn't try to stop them from aborting, and she has had much more success in stopping women from aborting than anyone else here.
How do you know she has had more success than anyone else here? care to post your proof? I can prove that she actually has used IAAP material to save babies. The same material I waisted mailing to you. The same material That is being used all over the country to save babies, and change hearts, as well as educate the very young. I would say she is WWWWWWAAAAAAYYY behind IAAP in saving babies. SSSSOOOOO once again you run your ignorant mouth to defend a pro-fetii killer.

reply from: faithman

The most successful thing I have done.....HHHHHMMMMM... SSSSOOOOO many to choose from..... But I think http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/?action=view¤t=allie.jpg this one takes the cake. Even CM can't "out nice" a child defending a child. The cards she is holding are part of the 40 thousand we sent to Colorado. Missionaries to the pre-born helped scatter them out with several reported babies saved. IAAP is one of THE most successful grass roots efforts in pro-life, with untold numbers of saved womb children to it's credit. And as demonstrated in the picture, even the very young can use them. My offer still goes. Anyone who would like a free sample, just contact me by PM.

reply from: ProInformed

You know darn well that the abortion industry has viciously fought any and all attempts to pass legislation to grant pregnant women the patient protection right of Informed Consent when it applies to abortion. Abortionists KNOW they are in no danger of lawsuit when they lie to women in order to get them to abort. Abortionists know they have their powerful, wealthy industry, complete with lawyers and lobbyists, and the biased media, and foaming at the mouth slogan-parroting puppets like you spitwitty, to defend their practice of lying to women with legal impunity.
I DID try to go back and sue the abortion clinic - THAT is when I learned that it is legal for abortionists and their staff to lie to women with impunity! THAT is why I support legislative efforts to pass the patient protection right of Informed Consent for women who are advised to abort.
The abortionists and abortion clinics, and now even some ob/gyns who do not work in the abortion industry directly, are well aware of the imbalance of liability when it comes to abortion: If they advise a mother to abort for medical reasons and then the mother finds out later that the doctor left out non-violent treatment options, misdiagnosed or exaggerated the severity of the health problem with either the mother or the baby, or just flat out lied to them in order to sell an abortion or get a referral fee reward, the grieving mother cannot prevail in a lawsuit based on Informed Consent.
And the doctor also knows that if they do not try to get the mother to abort, even if there is even the slightest possibility of maternal or fetal health problems, then then the are liable for lawsuit.
I have explained this MANY times in this forum and have posted the link to the 'medicalizing abortion decisions' article many times too. Besides, as a relentless and heartless defender of abortionists rather than women and babies, you already know it and don't care AT ALL that women are being lied to in order to get them to abort.
http://www.leaderu.com/ftissue...es/goodwin.html
http://www.leaderu.com/ftissue...oodwin.html
"Nobody facing a life-threatening condition would have just let it go at that."
IF I hadn't been feeling very ill (because of 'morning sickness' that was sometimes all day long),
IF the 'counselor' (deceptively dressed in a nurse costume) hadn't been SO INSISTENT that it was supposedly a very serious and urgent health problem requiring that the pregnancy be terminated immediately,
IF I had been aware of the fact that the abortion industry routinely lied to women (something I had no reason to even suspect at the time)
IF I had known that the clinic staff was protected from liability if they lied to me in order to sell an abortion
IF I had not trusted the government, media, education system, medical system, the clinic staff, AND [people] like you spinfibby who pretend concern for women when the truth is you think it's funny to lie to women and then make fun of them for trusting the lies,
IF I had ever heard of blood Rh factors before, and the truth about what effect having a negative Rh blood factor might have on pregnancy,
THEN I would have known that I should have left and made an appointment somewhere else to get a second opinion.
I have posted my story here before spinfibby, so stop pretending you've never heard it before. You know darn well that I was lied to and told that since I had a negative blood Rh factor that supposedly meant me and my baby were unlikely to survive the pregnancy. I was lied to and told that THE reason I was anemic and sick was because the baby had a different blood type that was causing my red blood cells to be killed off, and that the baby's blood cells were also dying. I was told that even IF the baby and I somehow survived the pregnancy we would both need immediate emergency complete blood transfussions. I was told that the shot they gave me after the abortion was to save my life, was to stop the damage my baby was doing to my body. I was also told that the only babies I would be able to carry to term, without severe risk to myself and the baby would be babies that happen to have the exact same blood type and Rh factors as myself. Of course those were all lies, which I found out many years later when I started going to a center run by nurse-midwives for ob/gyn care. I didn't have to abort babies that had a different blood type or blood Rh factor than myself and the shot they gave me after the abortion was the same shot they gave me after my three living babies were born - which was for the purpose of protecting my future babies from harm from antibodies that might have formed from possible blood Rh factor incompatability.
Hey but you don't care do you spinfibby?
You think it's funny that women are lied to like that just to get them to buy an abortion, right? And then you gleefully attack and insult them when they dare to criticize your precious abortion industry, don't you spitwitty?
"To top it off - a blood test? - nobody has used blood testing to determine pregnancy in the last 25 years, it's at least 6x more expensive"
I never said that a blood test was used to verify that particular pregnancy (although I HAVE HAD to have blood test verification of pregnancy a few times, because the sharp-tipped powerful suction device used in the so-called 'safe/simple/painless' abortion I had severely cut and scarred the inside of my uterus so badly that I had 5 miscarriages of wanted, planned babies becuase of implantation and placental adherance problems). Also, it is not true that blood test are no longer used to verify pregnancy. They are used because they are a much more accurate way to confirm pregnancy than the urine test. The blood test I was referring to was to determine the Rh factor. It is a blood test that ALL pregnant women should get! Some abortion clinics don't even bother to do that blood test because they are motivated solely by profits and don't even care about following proper procedure - hmmm maybe you work at one of the shoddier clinics and that's why you are ignorant about the Rh blood test that SHOULD be given?
"No one with two brain cells to rub together is buying your story."
Your hateful insults towards women who expose how they were lied to, calling them liars and making fun of them, doesn't really cause anyone with a normal, healthy capacity for thinking and compassion to join you in attacking post-abortive women, does it? All you are doing is revealing that you care much, much more about defending the abortion industry than you care about women.
Keep it up, you aren't making me look bad at all - just revealing [who] you are for all who read here to see.

reply from: carolemarie

Dear Churchmouse:Happily for me, I don't need your approval of anything I do. I have Gods.
Women who abort need to be reached out to. I first try to talk them into choosing live, but when that fails, I want to reach them afterwards.
Scripture tells us that a mans gift prepares the way for him. We are preparing them to receive the truth.
I am sorry that you feel giving someone a piece of chocolate or a mug with tea is a horrible thing to do, that says a bunch more about you than me.
I use to think we just had theological differences. But I think your self-loathing for your choice is being projected on women who choose the same thing....we often react that way to someone who is doing just what we did.
Giving a bible to someone who doesn't believe God exist is rather pointless. They may or may not read it. But extending friendship and offering your help earns you the right to speak into their lives so you can tell them about God.
Nobody needs a bunch of theology. What they need is a relationship with Jesus. That changes you. They need changing and the bible tells us that God provides a way out of every temptation, we were there when they went in which was the provision for that sin, and we are their when they leave to stop them from hardneing their hearts. I do tell them the truth, I just do it gently and kindly.
I am not interested in being the judge. We have plenty of people on this board who want to do that. I am intersted in helping them find the God that loves them.

reply from: BossMomma

I doubt you would do that......you like to argue to much. And if you do.....I guess you cant handle what they have to say. If ya cant take the heat.......
You talk about throwing stones? You have a right to judge their actions as we have a right to judge yours. And what was it called when you had how many children out of wedlock? Sure it was honorable that you did not abort them.....but didnt you sin as well.
And now churchrat wants to bring up my two children out of wedlock despite the fact that she murdered her husband's child. Has it ever occured to your tiny peabrain that bs like this is WHY so many single women abort? I put certain people on ignore because like you they have nothing intelligent to say.
I committed fornication true, but I've never committed murder and there will be no child of mine in Heaven asking why I did not want him/her. I'll thank you to leave my kids out of your posts, they are happy, well loved and, Godly and deserve no such abuse.

reply from: scopia19822

We have all sinned Boss and will continue to sin. I fornicated, commited adultery and even had sex with women, but those sins have been forgiven as have yours.

reply from: churchmouse

And what dont you get Faramir.........
I said what she does before ad also after by........handing out the bibles is admirable.
NOW LISTEN........I said I did not agree with the gifts.....chocolate and tea.
Do you understand? She can help without the treats. Or, dont you think it can be done that way?
If one person can save one baby......its worth a million marches, a million brochures.
This thread has become a contest......who does more, who does it better. Its not a competition.
Its like whose faith is the strongest, who is the best Christian.
I want no part.
No one need brag about what they do and expect continuous pats on the back.
You are a hoot I will say that. You bash me because I now do not agree with the chocolates and tea and then you say you dont need my approval. Well of course you don't. Nor do I need yours. Your a one man band carole.
I remember you bashing me for how I talked to the girl who bragged about her abortions at the Womans Expo......oh you were high almighty all over me, over that one. You can criticize......but God forbid anyone do it to you.
You love to dish it out, but you dont like in any way to be criticized over your actions.
A lot of people think they have Gods blessings. I have many times and I was wrong and I do not pretend to know everything or have the best answer all the time. Have you ever been wrong Carole? Did ya ever say somethign to someone you regret? Ever tried something that failed and wished you had done something in a different way?
I realize that we need to reach out to post abortive women that they of all people should not be forgotten. That is why I stand at our local universities and colleges with signs...."I regret my abortion, Please Ask Me Why" We do a lot of good things with Silent No More. They are a wonderful organization as I am sure you know.
A gift of chocolates and tea......is not what I consider a worthy gift. Sorry. You can reach out, I have seen it done without giving gifts.
And I am sorry you think that you need more than Gods Word to touch people because ya dont. Isn't Gods Word enough? If you are doing Gods work which I think you are.....you do not need fancy gimicks. The fact that you are out there......the fact that you give them a Bible and literature is enough. God will convict their hearts......you plant the seed. Nothing can happen without the Holy Spirit.
I hope that says a lot about me. I think the Word is enough. You obviously do not.
Well my dear you can get nasty and call me names I don't care. I'm not stoopin to that level. I think your heart is in the right place because you are out there on the front lines trying to make a difference. The bible is fine.....the literature is fine......THE CHOCOLATES AND TEA are over the line. yes we have theological differences and we also have different methods of reaching out to people. As long as we keep God at the center and we take the Great Commission seriously than we will honor God even if our methods are different. I truely believe that.
The fact is we both share something in common with every post abortive woman that walks out of the clinics Carole. WE BOTH KILLED, WE BOTH MURDERED OUR UNBORN CHILDREN. The pain we went through we should share with women. In fact our stories can possibly affect others as well. God forgives and heals and they should know the truth even if it shames them.
See I get the impression you think this is all about you, that you can do this alone.
How sad you feel this way. How very sad.
You can't change them carole. God is the one who changes hearts. You might like to take the credit but the credit is not yours or mine to recieve. We are not responsible for anyones salvation but our own. For you to say that a Bible is not enough....is questioning what God will do with that circumstance. This one is a sad comment you made. And that says a lot about your faith in God.
Plant the seed.......do the leg work.......God will change the heart. The woman taking the bible, might not look at it that day......she might need months or years. But it was a beautiful gift that many people in the world can never own....a bible. She might, her friend might, who knows her parents might pick it up and who knows what they might read that will hit a heart string. You cant possibly talk to her all day......most women want to get out of there fast after the abortion.
Giving a bible to anyone glorifies God. it means your heart is in the right place.
God judges hearts. But He commands us to spread the gospel to the unsaved. You must show someone why they need God first. And the reason we need God is because of sin. Abortion is sin and woman that walk out need to know that. They need to know that you die in your sins without Christ. That is the reason they need the personal relationship with Christ, that is the reason they need the relationship. That is why Christ came...to save the lost so they will not perish.
Namecalling namecalling.......sigh. Christian love is great isnt it Boss?
Then by all means I invite you to put me on ignore. I do not care, run if you want to. Some people cant take the questions.......as I said....I will not put anyone on ignore, I want to see people in their true light.
I said you were admirable to have your children. I said you obviously were in a pattern of sin however because you did it more than once. As did carole because she had three abortions. A life of sin is a pattern.
I sinned as well by having sex outside marriage and then to top it off I kill my unborn child. I did not single you out as the only sinner here. You seem to imply that sins are arranged in order of how bad they are. Sin is sin. Swearing isnt worse than stealing something and stealing something isnt worse that coveting.....sin is sin.
No your children might ask why you sinned and did not get married...that they did not grow up with a father in their life who knows. A sin is a sin and we all are accountable no matter what it is. God does not keep track of sins however if you are born of the spirit and have turned your life to Him. Our sins are washed away....if you read scripture you would know that.
Keep your kids out of it? Now how can we all do that? I have not bashed them or said anything meanspirited about them. You are the one that has made them board business and its part of your background on here. People know because you talk about it. People commend you for having them, I do as well. We havent shared anything you have not given us information on.
Its part of you on here just as much as the abortion I also shared with posters. If you dont want all posters to discuss your history dont be so open in sharing it to begin with.

reply from: faithman

SURE it is a competition. Competing is a good thing. That is the way we find what is most effective. I put IAAP up against anything for over all effectiveness+cost ratio. If you can find something better, I will most assuredly use it. But all my money is on IAAP right now. Why keep suporting the frivolous? We should use our resourse on what works, not on how someone "feels".

reply from: Faramir

Do you admit or deny that the very women she reaches out to after they have had their abortions are the same women she had tried to stop on the way in and tried to get them to NOT abort?
You keep leaving that part out. You and yodavater and others keep presenting it as if she is standing outside the clinic waiting to reward those who abort, and dishonestly omit the fact that SHE BEGS THEM NOT TO ABORT on their way in.
Why do you "overlook" that tiny detail?

reply from: Faramir

It looks like you have become a faithman clone, churchmouse.
You keep rubbing CMs nose in her abortions, as if admitting your own gives you permission to do so over and over.

reply from: BossMomma

I know, I just don't appreciate churchrat dragging my kids into this. They are no less innocent and loved by Jesus than the children of a two parent married family and she has no right to trash them.

reply from: faithman

It looks like you have become a faithman clone, churchmouse.
You keep rubbing CMs nose in her abortions, as if admitting your own gives you permission to do so over and over.
Pretty much does in my book.

reply from: nancyu

Welcome to the club churchmouse!

reply from: faithman

Welcome to the club churchmouse!
Are you making the kool aide for the next meet? You still have the punch bowl......

reply from: nancyu

Welcome to the club churchmouse!
Are you making the kool aide for the next meet? You still have the punch bowl......
Are you talking to me, or to churchmouse...or was that me talking to you? Oh dear, I'm SSSSSSOOOOOOO confused!

reply from: faithman

Welcome to the club churchmouse!
Are you making the kool aide for the next meet? You still have the punch bowl......
Are you talking to me, or to churchmouse...or was that me talking to you? Oh dear, I'm SSSSSSOOOOOOO confused!
Now now...don't fritz out again. just remember... koolaide....punch bowl..... I have the secret ingrediant..... Church mouse can do it next time....

reply from: faithman

If there is a next time............

reply from: yoda

Because it wasn't the subject at the time. We all know that we can depend upon you to rush in and give us her minute by minute schedule, as if she was still out there on the front lines.... so we don't bother with that.
But why do you omit the fact that I have a large poster with the IAAP image on it, and that I stand out there in all kinds of weather. Why do you "overlook" those details? Huh?

reply from: scopia19822

"know, I just don't appreciate churchrat dragging my kids into this. They are no less innocent and loved by Jesus than the children of a two parent married family and she has no right to trash them."
I agree there is no such thing as bastard children in the eyes of God.

reply from: yoda

What does that mean, that God does not know that some kids are born out of wedlock?

reply from: faithman

Just bastard parents. But then there is this scripture...Hebrews chapter 12 verses 7 and 8 [kjv]....

reply from: scopia19822

"What does that mean, that God does not know that some kids are born out of wedlock?"
Of course God does, but he doesnt consider them any less worthy of his love and mercy.

reply from: scopia19822

So are you saying that children born out of wedlock are not able to attain salvation?

reply from: yoda

That's what the word "bastard" means to you?

reply from: carolemarie

That is good and actually useful.

reply from: carolemarie

It looks like you have become a faithman clone, churchmouse.
You keep rubbing CMs nose in her abortions, as if admitting your own gives you permission to do so over and over.
God is the one who does ALL of it.
I NEVER said that I did it by myself.

reply from: Hosea

That is good and actually useful.
What do you mean by useful? Are you using this information for something?

reply from: carolemarie

????? I think the things you are doing are really useful and helpful and make a good impact on the people you are dealing with. It is a good thing to do.
What on earth did you think I meant?

reply from: scopia19822

"That's what the word "bastard" means to you?"
In the not too distant past that is how children born out of wedlock were referred to. Would you like to see a copy of my moms birth certificate courtsey of the state of South Carolina as she was the product of an affair. Other states usually would put something more tasteful like "lovechild". Not my mom they just stamped in red the word bastard. And if she wants to amend it she has to petition the court and pay $200. And my mom was born in 1963. I believe that stopped listing the marital status of the parents in the 70's.

reply from: faithman

It God's eyes all mankind are bastards until they are born again. He also considers them children of disobediance, and His wrath abides on them. Ya must be born again. SSSSOOOO the only reason God don't lightning bolt bortheads, He is taking it easy on the little bastards. But they will close thier eyes for one last time, and then judgment. Woe unto those who walk into eternaty without Christ. You will find that CM lied to you. Get your neck sized for a mill stone baby killers, and get ready to swim in a pond with no bottom....., God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God...... Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, .... God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God...... Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ,

reply from: churchmouse

But faithman why do we do this.......for the pats on the back or to give God the glory? I do it because it is right and godly.
I don't do it to get praise. God deserves the praise.
I do not stand at universities for me......I do it for Christ.....He saved me and I killed my unborn.
I honor Him by my actions.

Yes. And your point? The message should be the same before as it is after. No change.....Gods Word does not change. As I said......the bible and literature are wonderful.......the treats are not IMO.
As I said call me whatever you want. I think I am just me. I dont try to be like anyone else here. EAch persons story and approach is different.
No I do not. Carole has been forgiven Faramir. God forgave her when she repented and asked to be forgiven. She has been washed clean if she did this.
I have never seen her in action at clinics. Anyone who hands someone a bible is doing a godly thing and I recogize that. I only dissagree with two things.....chocolate and tea. Why is this tiny little thing so hard for you to understand? Its not that they are a huge deal....I just think they are inappropriate.
Boss.......still whining said,
You are somthin else ya know that. I NEVER MY DEAR SAID ONE DARN THING ABOUT YOUR PRECIOUS CHILDREN. YOU HAVE BLABBED AND TOLD THE ENTIRE WEBSITE ABOUT THEM.......ITS PUBLIC NEWS. I MADE MENTION THAT IT WAS SIN TO HAVE THEM OUT OF WEDLOCK BUT ADMIRABLE YOU CHOSE TO GIVE BIRTH AND NOT KILL THEM.
Why don't you put up or shut up.......post where I said anything about them period, other than mentioning you had three children. Post where I cut them down.....post where I said anything negative. Come on......show proof. You are a liar.
Where ya been nancy.......I have been like this since my arrival Nance. LOL
I am me, I have my own story, I have my own opinion on what works and what does not. I HAVE FAILED AT TIMES AND SUCCEEDED AT TIMES. But I am not perfect and I have never pretended to be perfect. We are all human beings.....doing what we can for the unborn. Look at the pagans on this board.......that is what we are up against. What does fighting accomplish.....especially between those who are pro-life. Our fighting is a victory on the side of those who are pro-choice.
And mini-cheesecakes, my specialty?

reply from: Faramir

Her detractors have taken this "tiny little thing" and made a mountain out of a molehill over it, and refuse to acknowledge that the same woman she treats with kindness after the abortion, she also begged to NOT ABORT on the way into the clinic.
I wonder why they "forget" to mention that, and only remember the so-called "reward," and I wonder why they never acknowledge that she saves hundreds of babies. They only have sour grapes for her, and you seemed to be joining right in, because you did not put your criticism in the proper context, and criticized her AS IF all she does is "reward aborters."

reply from: yoda

But they did not "define" the word, right?
To me, that word has always been a derogatory, as well as a word which simply means born our of wedlock. But it has never, ever had any spiritual connotation to me, since the idea of a just and loving God is incompatible with the idea of being condemned by God for being born out of wedlock.

reply from: Hosea

That is good and actually useful.
What do you mean by useful? Are you using this information for something?
????? I think the things you are doing are really useful and helpful and make a good impact on the people you are dealing with. It is a good thing to do.
I thought maybe you were compliling a list of pro-life resources. It would be nice if there was a site that included all pro-life organizations and what they do. The pro-life movement is so divided. They all do good work but, a nation divided cannot win. I guess I was just hoping for some unification.

reply from: yoda

A lot of prolife websites (including mine) have link pages which try to do just that. Well, mine are categorized, anyway.

reply from: BossMomma

Hebrews 12:7&8 have nothing to do with kids born out of wedlock, Hebrews 12:7 states :Endure your discipline. God corrects you as a father corrects his children. All children are disciplined by their fathers.
Hebrews 12:8 states:Now if you are without any discipline, in which all sons share, then you are illegitimate and not God's sons.

reply from: nancyu

Congratulate yourself much?
I hate to burst your bubble carolemarie, but you have not been successful at stopping abortion.

reply from: Faramir

Congratulate yourself much?
I hate to burst your bubble carolemarie, but you have not been successful at stopping abortion.
She's stopped hundreds of abortions from happening, so she was modest by just mentioning one.
It's sad that you would want to burst the bubble of someone who saves babies, because that puts you on the side of the baby killers in this instance.

reply from: nancyu

PPPPSSSSSHHSHHHSSSHHH

reply from: ChristianLott2

I am gawds personal super saint! i saves 5 zillion baby today! nancy sawz it awl! dincha nance?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Who needs to change laws when we got killercarole savin em all anyway?

reply from: nancyu

I am gawds personal super saint! i saves 5 zillion baby today! nancy sawz it awl! dincha nance?
Sure did! Saw it with my own 4 eyes. A round of tea and chocolate for the house!

reply from: ChristianLott2

Seein as how sum ah yall finetit hart ta believe me that i savez all a dem baybeez so i'm a tell ya myz sekretz wit a true storyz. yall lizen naw..
see it wuz likz dis - it all hapent when i wuz over at da kwiki mart downt da street. i seent dis purty young pregnunt gal come runnin up an she sayz 'karol karol! dat mean ol borshun wolf cumin ta get me! help me help!'
and i sayz ta her: 'naw don chew worry lil gal. i'll potect chew. i'll sho him he kant stopz a tru faux lifer lixs me!'
and jus den dat bortion wolf cum rarin rount da corner, nashin and slobrin, eyin dat sweet lil galz belly with a mean evil lusty eye sayin: ' im eat chew lil baybeez gal an nar aint nutin u can do bouts it! i got ma lab coat on an i got me diplomi! ur babyz mine!'
an i telz dat mean ol wolf: ' not so fast you meannie bad borshuns wolf! yew cant hav her!'
an nat lil ol gal she sayz ta me: ' oh thank ya! tha waz da nisest tang any wun hat evor dun faw me! ya see I'm only elevun yearz olt an dat wulf been chasin me for milez an noboty wut helps me i dont know why!'
an i sayz ta her: ' wait lil lady. how olt yew sayz yew iz?'
ant she say: ' iz only eleben mam.'
an i sayz: ' git her wolfie!'
oops. dat wundnt da rite stowy.. lemme thinka .. i mean rememba anuda.. holt on...
ya it wuz likz dis..
i wuz overt at jazparz watrin hole, sittin all pretti dar wit my new pink skooti outfiz on and dis girl cumz runnin up to me an she set 'helpz me helpz me! dat bad ol borshun wolf! here he cum fo my baybeez!'
an shur nuf, she wuz pregnut an here cum dat wulf growlin an glowrin... noticeably slower den befo..
so i sez to da wulf: ' no yew cants hav har. she dont wans no borshun'
ant dat wulf he sayz ' dats alrite der. i just hat sum baybeez dis mornin. i wuz cumin in har fer a drinks.'
an dat lil ol girl say ta me, she say: ' tank ya tank ya miz karol! dat waz da nicest tang anyone evar dun fo me. ya see, nobodied help me cuz i wuz raped!'
'yew wuz??' i sez. 'well i'll be. datz da worsest thang in da worlt, carrin wun a doze rape bastarts. da worlt dont deserve dat vile brat an nieter duz you! i jus guess i gotz to do this har me self!'
an i gave her dat borshun jus as quick as any dar wulf cuz i gots a lil ex peer e unce havin hat several such ma self.
dat wudnt da rite story der doe eva...
i know iz savet a borshun baybe wuntce time... hmm..

reply from: yoda

I am gawds personal super saint! i saves 5 zillion baby today! nancy sawz it awl! dincha nance?
Sure did! Saw it with my own 4 eyes. A round of tea and chocolate for the house!
Why would anyone invite someone else to brag on all the many "saves" they had? What kind of glory do you suppose they are looking for?

reply from: nancyu

I am gawds personal super saint! i saves 5 zillion baby today! nancy sawz it awl! dincha nance?
Sure did! Saw it with my own 4 eyes. A round of tea and chocolate for the house!
Why would anyone invite someone else to brag on all the many "saves" they had? What kind of glory do you suppose the are looking for?
Awww gee wiz Yodavater, you spoil all the fun.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, I guess that was kinda hateful of me, wasn't it? Hey, but I'm real, real ashamed of myself.... does that count?

reply from: faithman

Well you will never get to be a faux lifer like that!!! First thing under the bus is your shame. Followed closely by the womb child. But with a little practice.........

reply from: churchmouse

I am not anybody else...... I'm me. So, please treat me as such.
Who is they? And you are responding to what you said, I said. How do you know how many babies she saves? She saves, or God saves. She is doing His Work. She might plant the seed but God does the rest. I am not joining in with anyone....why do you say that. I dissagree with a lot of people on here over different issues. You need to read better what people post.
She might have.......and if that happened praise God. But this site......is for pats on the back. And is that reall necessary?

reply from: Faramir

Silly me, this site is for harrassing a polictically incorrectect prolife postabortive woman mercilessly.
Never point out or praise the good. Just keep calling someone a "killer" because that helps "the babies" and that's what God wants.
Nevermind how many she saved. Just remeber that she's a "killer of three" and make sure she is told that a hundred times a day--and you DID join in the persecution in your own sneaky way.
Here is a comment:
Here is your response:
You validated the lie in the post before yours, since he knows that she tries to stop the women from aborting and often succeeds, btw.
And you also agreed with the mischaracterization that she "rewards" the postabortive--as if she is saying "congratulations for your abortion." And how can "the baby be first" when she is reaching out to the POST abortive. She DID try to stop the woman on the way in, but you wouldn't know that from the two quotes above.
That was cruel and dishonest of you to make that comment to someone who is out on the front lines saving babies and doing the best she can.

reply from: carolemarie

The point of this thread was what worked for you?
All the people who posted what they did that worked the common theme was helping women.
From this thread we can see that helping women is the way to prevent abortions.
I am impressed at all the genuinely kind and concerned people who reach out in love to those who find themselves where they shouldn't be and reach out to help them. Lots of good ideas on this thread.
Thank you all for sharing them. I love Luke's mom's story of her mom and her work!

reply from: carolemarie

I have a list of resourses for my state, you can get one for your state.
Start with your local CPC and ask them what resourses there are for pregnant women, single moms, they have the United Way Blue book which is a list of programs by the government and private organzations to help people.
Then expand it by visiting other CPC's and churches, the longer you seek information the more it will grow.
Add things like post abortion help, prolife legislative groups....

reply from: Hosea

I know of many organizations. I volunteer for three pro-life organizations in Cincinnati alone. I also donate to MANY pro-life groups. I would like to see them have a coordinated effort so they are not all working on the same thing. They could each have their own specialized area. I know they all specialize somwhat but, I get agrivated whe one pro-life organization does something and then the others all try to fundraise using the information another organization uncovered. For example when Life Dynamics had undercover information on the marketing of baby parts, many other organizations used this information to fund raise. Why is there so much division in the pro-life movement?

reply from: carolemarie

To make a buck. All the groups are competing for dollars.
Not only the abortion industry profits off dead babies. So does the prolife groups that fight it. NRL rakes in millions.

reply from: churchmouse

Hosea no use continuing this......you read what you want to read.
The focus should on the child........if it was on the child no woman would abort. The woman is the one that walks out alive. The baby is the one that has been murdered.
Before abortion was legal.......the focus was on teh child because the government said woman could not kill. When Roe passed it became about the woman because the government doesnt care about the unborn.
The woman walking into an abortion clinic should be told what she is about to do....because she is carrying the life. And if its done at a clinic then all means within the law should be done. Shouting the truth........I find acceptable personally. If she is shamed then so be it. Its nothing compared to what she is about to do to the child. She needs to think about what she is doing. For the woman that comes out........she needs the bible.......God is the only one that came save her then.
Carole does a wonderful thing by handing out bibles, because the woman walks out a murderer........I dont like the other items of chocolate and tea.

reply from: Faramir

Also tracts about getting counseling are included--which imply that she is going to need some help.
If you take the "tea and chocolate" OUT OF CONTEXT you can make it appear to be a "reward," but within the context of the attempt to save the baby on the way in, along with the bible and other tracts on the way out, it is obvious that the abortion was discouraged and that the outreach on the way out is not a "reward" for heaven's sake.
Note that her detractors here ONLY MENTION THE TEA AND CHOCOLATE when they persecute her and remind her about her evil deeds over and over, and NEVER MENTION OR SHOW ANY ENCOURAGEMENT regarding the hundreds of babies she saves from abortion.
Don't you find that odd?

reply from: faithman

Also tracts about getting counseling are included--which imply that she is going to need some help.
If you take the "tea and chocolate" OUT OF CONTEXT you can make it appear to be a "reward," but within the context of the attempt to save the baby on the way in, along with the bible and other tracts on the way out, it is obvious that the abortion was discouraged and that the outreach on the way out is not a "reward" for heaven's sake.
Note that her detractors here ONLY MENTION THE TEA AND CHOCOLATE when they persecute her and remind her about her evil deeds over and over, and NEVER MENTION OR SHOW ANY ENCOURAGEMENT regarding the hundreds of babies she saves from abortion.
Don't you find that odd?
#What I find odd is that you don't do a damn thing for the babies, and just run your mouth defending baby killers.

reply from: faithman

The common thing is saving the baby. You always want to stop and "help" the killers at the expence of the babies. But it is little wonder that a murderer takes up for their own at the expence of the true victim.

reply from: yoda

Exactly. But it's so easy to shift the focus onto the problems of the killer, isn't it? That way, we can ignore the fact that they are the killer.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, that's his ONLY "contribution" to the prolife movement..... chief whiner in charge of running his mouth and acting as carole's lawyer.

reply from: churchmouse

CHRIST is the reward. He should be the focus. I am sorry giving out tea and chocolates is wrong IMO. The bible on the way in.......the bible on the way out.
What do you do with children that disobey? Reward them? Or take things away and punish them? We put them on time out to think about what they did. We take away the car keys. We dont reward.
The women walking out felt good enough to walk in and kill their babies. They should feel shame and heartbreak when they leave. They should have bitter tastes in their mouths.......especially after witnessing protesters and people outside the clinics telling them what they were doing. They should recieve the GOSPEL.
You know Faramir, Carole can hold her own that I know. When you have killed your child and the world makes negative statements and bashes....you develop a hard skin. To us all that matters really in the end is Christ and doing what we believe to be right. Carole does a lot of things right.....we all do......but the liar is the one who thinks they are perfect and without fault. Those who pretend here to have it all right.........they are decieving themselves because no one is perfect.
Not everyone agrees to methods and that is ok. For me abortion is a secondary focus,,,,,Christ is my first. Witnessing to sinners......and women who have aborted are not the only sinners here that need the Word. There are Christians here that do not know the Word. God commands us in the Great Commission to spread the Gospel. That should be every Christians focus. Standing up against evil is noble and right......but witnessing to evil is the goal. To lead people to Christ who is the one that saves.
I know a lot of passionate pro-life people who are totally against graphic signs, but do good work. Some people dissagree with having small children at marches and events... If the signs touch someone then that is a good thing. If they upset people that for me is a good thing. It might make them think about changing their position. I dont agree with the chocolates........but if one chocolate brings a person to Christ......then hip hip hooray.
All killers have problems yoda. Do we just ignore them? The people in prison......should we not witness to them? Should we give up? You should read some of Chuck Colson stuff. He is one of my favorite apologists. He was a crook and look how God changed his life.
Read about Stormie Omartians life. She aborted three and look how God changed her life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormie_Omartian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Colson

Both these people hit rock bottom.........and GOD CHANGED THEM BECAUSE THEY SOUGHT HIM OUT. And today they have helped millions find Christ through their work.
A Chrisitan never gives up on anyone. Christ never gave up on me.
I kill my child, carole killed hers..........do you feel good by slamming us both? I have kept my mouth shut long enough. I agree with just about everything you say and your position on everything.....but enough is enough.
I was guilty, I was forgiven, Christ is my Saviour. HE GETS THE GLORY.

reply from: ChristianLott2

It's about carole's continued war against the unborn and how she lies to people claiming she's still pro life.

reply from: Faramir

In the overall context it's nothing, and not worth making an issue. But I can see why The Sour Grapes Club members would jump on it, because I think they are jealous of her success. They don't encourage the good she does--they just nitpick and persecute.
Probably so...but she's outnumbered here, and there are four posters who use her as a punching bag, and who feel a need to twist the knife when they can about her abortions, but never acknowledge the hundreds she saves, so I don't see the harm in showing a little support and appreciation, and I think it would be appropriate if others did too.
The people who continually point at "the killers" are not doing it "for the babies" but for themselves. It's a way to feel morally superior.
No one can read your heart and mind and say with certainty that "you knew" you were killing a baby. You don't need salt rubbed in your wound, and it won't bring anyone back to life. You should be taken at your word, espeically since you obviously regret it, and especially since you are working so hard to prevent others from making the same mistake.
Read the article I posted by Fr. Pavone regarding postabortive women. Not once does he call them "killers" or "murderers," but instead is respectful and compassionate.
Those who have participated in killing by abortion are accountable, but so are all the rest of us. We all helped make the culture that forced the issue, unless we are perfect and sinless.
I can understand pointing the finger at the militants and the angry prochoicers who don't seem to give a rat's rear about life in the womb, and who will not even ponder whether it's a human person, and who will coldy say "so what if it is," but I cannot understand why the postabortive who are sorry and who are doing good prolife work are constantly and cruelly reminded that they are "killers" or "murderers."

reply from: churchmouse

What do you mean and be specific. How is she waging war?
Well I dont really understand what you mean because I really feel that most here are pretty passionate about the unborn. I think we have a conflict of methods here.
But i do believe this.....no one needs salt in the wound if you really love and care about them. And as a Christian I might dissagree with people here......think their "words are vile......but I dont hate anyone.
Story.......No one went at it with more energy than RiverMoon and I did. We said nasty things.......we dissagreed on everything....every issue. We even went at it on another website. LOL
I hope you don't mind me telling this River but I really appreciate what you did.
She contacted me and said, lets stop and start over. We still dissagree but we get along and I really really like her. She made me stop and really think about my words and actions and how I was coming across. Thank you River !!!!!
I was not acting very Christian and that is what I see here from more than a few Christians.
As I said you can be kind and still state the truth. God considers abortion sin. A child is killed. And for a woman to come to terms with her actions in order to accept Christ she needs to know her sinfulness. The law does that. It is one of the Ten Commandments, Thou shall not kill. That is why God gave Moses the Commandments.
We have to face the facts however hard they are to face, however hard they hurt.
BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BE REMINDED OF THEM OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Christians understand this........pagans dont.

reply from: Faramir

Christians understand this, but some Christians are immature and don't mind getting their jollies at someone else's expense, and likewise for pagans.

reply from: carolemarie

Churchmouse:
You do not have to apologize or explain why you made a choice. You have told your story and freely admit you were wrong and that you asked God to forgive you.
Nobody should be trying to hurt you with it. The bible says that Satan is the acuser of the brethern, so if people are attacking you, they are doing Satan's biding.
I think your story is very sad and heartbreaking. By sharing it you are helping other women avoid your mistakes.
Blessings,
Carolemarie

reply from: yoda

Until we have solved the problem of stopping their killing, yes. We do not concentrate on the "problems" of those who kill born kids, do we? Don't we first make sure that they are put away where they can't kill any more kids?
We've got to have priorities. The baby's "problem" (staying alive) must be our first priority. We can't treat the "problems" of those that kill until we stop their killing. Saving the babies comes first, and you don't stop killers by appeasing them with gifts. Chamberlin learned that the hard way when he gave up parts of Czechoslovakia to Hitler. Hitler laughed at him behind his back and took all of continental Europe.
You don't stop killers by offering them honey. They will take your honey and go right on killing.

reply from: yoda

Actually, I do feel morally superior to those who make excuses for the elective killing of innocent unborn babies. You don't have that problem, right?

reply from: faithman

Actually, I do feel morally superior to those who make excuses for the elective killing of innocent unborn babies. You don't have that problem, right?
But see, you believe wrong is wrong and inferior to the right. Killers have to blur that line to justify their evil deeds. Darkness avoids light, because it is exposed for what it is in light. The borties want to cover their issue, and as the profetii killer has said herself," fight tooth and toenail" against the light of personhood for the womb child. Personhood is the light. The line drawn in the sand. The distinction between false and true. If things seem shadowy, it is no time to compromise. It is time to turn up the light of personhood until there is no more "what if" shadows. Just the simple fact of womb child personhood, and the final judgment of citizen jurist as to what punishment for those who destroy the preborn. That is the way it is for the born person, that is the way it should be with the womb child person.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You knew about adoption yet you chose abortion.
Why don't you tell us?
You already know - I've already told you before you hateful vile thing.
I was lied to by the 'couselor' at the clinic that I went to for the pregnancy test.
When she saw that I was not planning to abort she told me that there was a medical problem revealed by the blood test that meant that me and/or my baby would die if I did not abort.
I did not abort because I didn't know about adoption or because I wanted my baby to be killed - only because I was lied to by an aboriton industry employee who ONLY cared about making an abortion sale.
All you are doing spinfibby is revealing once again that your pretense to care about women is a total farce.
Vile traitorous females like you convince women the clinics can be trusted,
then you make fun of the women who trusted you and the clinics.
Women pay attention: spinfibby's fake concern for women is just a flimsy facade that she hides her total disregard for women behind. OBVIOUSLY she only cares about defending the abortion industry while working to con more women into trusting abortion clinics, the same women she will then attack and insult later.
What was the alleged "problem" and why didn't you investigate it further? Were you just a teenager and not really aware of the facts?

reply from: scopia19822

"What was the alleged "problem" and why didn't you investigate it further? Were you just a teenager and not really aware of the facts?"
My bet would be something to do with the RH factor.

reply from: yoda

Hmm...... does the phrase "second opinion" ring a bell?

reply from: scopia19822

"Hmm...... does the phrase "second opinion" ring a bell?"
When one is scared young and naive, probably not.

reply from: yoda

How young and naive does one have to be to not realize that killing your baby is serious enough to need serious consideration and deliberation, with all possible information before acting?

reply from: faithman

How young and naive does one have to be to not realize that killing your baby is serious enough to need serious consideration and deliberation, with all possible information before acting?
...more excuses at the expence of those being slaughtered...

reply from: ChristianLott2

What do you mean and be specific. How is she waging war?
She's pro abortion for young girls and rape. Probably for a bunch of other stuff she won't admit to here as well. Getting the truth out of her is like pulling teeth though.

reply from: churchmouse

Ah, but I love telling my story, my testimony....I to it to Glorify God and what He has done for me. I want people to know.......that with God anything is possible, that if He can save a sinner like me, He can and will save anyone that repents and asks.
No one should try to hurt anyone, but they do. You know that as well as I do when you tell people your story as I am sure you have. I believe people can learn by our mistakes. I believe when i am out on the front lines, at universities or marches or at a clinic......God wants me to share with people what I did. My sotry is victorious, because God saved me. Do I hear an AMEN?
Christians should look at us with happiness that we love the same God, the same God that forgave their sins as well. This is a forum about abortion so that sin is showcased. But how many here........are in the same boat only with other sins. They throw stones......but dont realize their own sinful nature.
Well Christians dont think that way. We never give up trying to witness the gospel. With Christ the door is always open. He never gives up on anyone.
You offer them the gospel. Dont agree with the tea and chocolates.....but carole does hand out bibles. AND THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER GIVE SOMEONE. The bible will be there long after the tea and chocolates will.
You know I dont think I know what faith you are yoda. Are you a Christian?

reply from: carolemarie

How young and naive does one have to be to not realize that killing your baby is serious enough to need serious consideration and deliberation, with all possible information before acting?
She believed a Doctor! What a shock, that a woman would believe a medical professional!
You should be ashamed telling her she is to blame for deceit and outright lies!
She regrets her abortion and has dedicated her time to fighting abortion, so leave her alone.

reply from: carolemarie

What do you mean and be specific. How is she waging war?
She's pro abortion for young girls and rape. Probably for a bunch of other stuff she won't admit to here as well. Getting the truth out of her is like pulling teeth though.
I am not PRO abortin for anyone. I just realize that in the rare cases, we need to leave the option there and work on banning the other 97%.

reply from: churchmouse

I was not young, I was not naive when i aborted my child in 1980. I didn't ask anything, they did not offer any information. They should my law have to give information whether the woman wants to hear it or not.
I make no excuse for my actions, I should have known better. I was a Christian in name only that did not live by Gods Word. And because I wasnt, a child was killed and I suffered consequences as well. Years of sorrow and grief, sucicidal thoughts as well.
As I said I make no excuse.
Why don't you ask her?
Carole are you for abortion in the case of rape?
Are there any reasons you would condone abortion and what are they?

reply from: yoda

Acknowledgement is the first step, just like the first of the "twelve steps". It is a healthy sign.
And how about in the case of a pregnant 11 year old whom the doctor says is healthy enough to give live birth, carole?

reply from: churchmouse

How about a child even younger than that like 8? My daughters friend was eight when she got her period. She could have had a child physically.

reply from: ChristianLott2

I have MANY times. Sometimes we actually get the truth but don't expect her to reveal herself so easily. She's a snake in the grass. A complete low life.
Yes she is and she's said so. Too bad you weren't around.
See, no definitive response. She hedges.
She supports abortion on young women and for rape.
Tell me I'm a liar cm.

reply from: ChristianLott2

I'm a post abortive man but at least I'm sorry for getting myself mixed up in it and I DO NOT condone any abortion for any reason besides the LIFE of the mother if she so chooses.
That is the very definition of pro life. Period.
That IS NOT what cm believes. Did I lie carole???

reply from: micah

Has anybody else noticed that the pro-choicers seem to be the only ones on this forum who haven't had abortions?

reply from: ChristianLott2

cm has had several abortions and she's still pro choice.

reply from: carolemarie

Only a few women on this board had abortions. We were all prochoice when we had them, a fact that you have missed.
We are now prolife, because we know from personal experience that abortion is a horrible decision.
Something you should muse about!

reply from: yoda

If someone told you your born child was about to suffer unbearable pain and you ought to kill it, would you ask for a second opinion?
Now you're trying to SHAME ME? How AWFUL OF YOU to try to SHAME ME, and yet you say those who are going to get an abortion ought not to be shamed? What a low standard you have.....
Thanks for sticking your nose where it doesn't belong again. Now it's time for your lawyer, farismear to chime in.

reply from: yoda

No, I am agnostic. So I put the "problems" of the victims of abortion way, way ahead of the "problems" of the perpetrators of abortion. It just seems fair to me to be more worried about the victim of the violence than one inflicting the violence.

reply from: yoda

Good question for carole. IMO, it should be left up to the opinion of a competent and honest physician as to whether she is physically capable at whatever age.

reply from: micah

I don't believe you're agnostic, son. If you're not really a Christian, let me hear you say that you deny the holy spirit:
"And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come."
No, I am agnostic. So I put the "problems" of the victims of abortion way, way ahead of the "problems" of the perpetrators of abortion. It just seems fair to me to be more worried about the victim of the violence than one inflicting the violence.

reply from: yoda

First, I don't give a red rat's patootie what you believe, since you apparently have no conscience.
Second, look up the word agnostic...... we don't "deny" anything. We just don't affirm anything either.

reply from: micah

I knew you wouldn't do it.
First, I don't give a red rat's patootie what you believe, since you apparently have no conscience.
Second, look up the word agnostic...... we don't "deny" anything. We just don't affirm anything either.

reply from: yoda

Any agnostic who would "do it" is a fool, just like all atheists are fools. Anyone (other than a member of a spiritual religion) who claims to know the truth about spiritual matters is either a fool or a liar.
Which are you?

reply from: churchmouse

Like give an example of what you mean. What is that rare case?
Wow you have such a godly attitude. Instead of trying to kindly tell Carole how she is wrong......you do the godly-Christlike thing by telling her she is a lowlife.
Where in the Bible ChristianLott does it say to act like you are acting here?
You call people "low life, snakes"..........wow....what an advocate for God you are. LOL
I once did that too.....until someone told me my actions were ungodly and they were right. I am telling you that here.
I was pro-choice. But I guess we are the only ones here that can learn by mistakes annd change. No one here obviously has made any. LOL Amazing that we have here the worlds most perfect Christians.
Of course you do. Why should you care about anyone else? That is a very sad lifechoice to take. That you give up on people that make mistakes.
And for people with no faith in God.......this makes sense.
Awww but I didnt ask CArole I asked you. So your saying here that abortion would be ok if the doctor said it would harm her? Do I hear a yes or a no?
And if it is a no......then wow, your not totally a pro-lifer are you?
I am a believer in Christ. He is the Truth. He is the ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Like give an example of what you mean. What is that rare case?
Well, she was on here all last night but she wouldn't answer the question. How long are you going to wait?
She said she'll fight personhood tooth and nail - that's a direct quote. What MORE do you need to know?
I think you're another faux lifer.

reply from: ChristianLott2

I was pro-choice. But I guess we are the only ones here that can learn by mistakes annd change. No one here obviously has made any. LOL Amazing that we have here the worlds most perfect Christians.
you've really missed a lot around here. All the REAL pro lifers have already admitted their mistakes and have HONESTLY repented. Not Carole though. She still advocate abortion for young women and rape babies.
Is that what you advocate churchmouse? Then why do you keep defending the choicer?

reply from: carolemarie

Good question for carole. IMO, it should be left up to the opinion of a competent and honest physician as to whether she is physically capable at whatever age.
It is that caliver attitude that is so disgusting..."if the eight year old can have phyically have a baby, then make her, or make her have major surgery (c-section to deliver a fetus) no concern for that child at all! Not one bit of concern for her life!
She and her family need counseling and help. The damage to her life counts as well. That is why you need exceptions for the rare cases. And it is so rare it isn't worth debating or fighting over.

reply from: lukesmom

Believe me, when it comes to pregnancy and "hard cases" they can be very hard to find. In my experience with poor prenatal diagnosis, 99% of the time physicians advocate abortion. They are often wrong in their assumptions of the presumed emotional and physical risk. Why? Because there are so few cases that 99.99% of MD's have never encountered these situaltions. The same goes for children who become pregnant.

reply from: yoda

You really ought to comment on what I say, not what you believe I am thinking. I never said anything like what you are commenting on. I expected better of you.
Only if a second competetent physician agreed, and even then it need not be an abortion. An early delivery would preserve the dignity of the lost child.
And you are telling me that because.............?????

reply from: yoda

Like I tell the other proaborts here, when a female is pregnant, she ALREADY HAS A BABY!!
Remember that now? But you really don't care, do you?
Oh, and congratulations on avoiding answering the question YOURSELF!

reply from: yoda

There are ways to find prolife doctors, there are associations of prolife OB-GYN doctors. But it does take some extra effort.

reply from: faithman

Like I tell the other proaborts here, when a female is pregnant, she ALREADY HAS A BABY!!
Remember that now? But you really don't care, do you?
Oh, and congratulations on avoiding answering the question YOURSELF!
But she don't believe that a womb child is a baby. She incorectly calls all preborns "fetus" just like the good little baby killer she is. OOOPPPPS ! Sorry! I meant profetii killer.

reply from: lukesmom

There are ways to find prolife doctors, there are associations of prolife OB-GYN doctors. But it does take some extra effort.
You are right, but often in these cases, it is hard to even function much less put the energy into looking for a prolife doctor. Not an "excuse" but it is a reality with hard cases.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Well, all I can say is - I'm glad we've had this out and we can all see the real ones who are responsible for keeping abortion legal all these years is. Faux lifers who place more value on a woman's feelings than on the life of a baby.

reply from: churchmouse

Now wait a minute here.
You still are killing yoda. If you induce you are still killing a child. So you are for abortion in certain circumstances. An early delivery? No you would end the life of that BABY........that is what you would do.
Because I believe if you weigh the evidence the truth rests in Christ. If you can prove me 100% false......do it and I will change positions.

reply from: churchmouse

I have been posting since......when did I join? ......5/22/08 and have said nothing about the slams particularly made to carole. And like [scopia] at one time I got caught up as well......thank gosh I had a Christian friend that really took the first step in making me see what I was doing. One act of kindness......thats all it took. Thank you friend you know who you are.
I dissagree with Carole on a number of issues mainly theological ones.....but she does NOT DESERVE THE CHRISTIAN BASHING FROM PEOPLE WHO DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THE WORD THEMSELVES.
And the thing is they are passionate people who care for the unborn. And I agree with most of what they say about every issue......but I do not agree with bashing people who truely have changed. You dont work on a daily basis with pro-life groups and not care and not feel it. You feel the pain of the abortion you had and the ones other women have had as well. Most days I come home blessed but drained from crying so much.
The thing is.....which side is showing Christ-like actions and words. I have seen the verbal abuse carole has gotten.......and I have yet to see her stoop to the level in which these people act. Right or wrong......I have yet to see Carole go ape and tell anyone off. She holds it together and someone is helping her. i know who that is. God never leaves us alone.
And like you I pray that God softens hearts.......and he can and He will if the person gives Him the opportunity. I acknowledge my wrongs to Him everytime I think of it. There are to many to save up for one day. The blessed thing is that He hears our prayers where ever we are.
Arent we blessed scopia my sister in Christ?
Thank you Jesus.

reply from: yoda

Well, that's not actually "incorrect", it's just insensitive, callous, and cold.

reply from: yoda

You are right, but often in these cases, it is hard to even function much less put the energy into looking for a prolife doctor. Not an "excuse" but it is a reality with hard cases.
Hey, I'm not unreasonable. I'd be understanding if a woman said that she looked around for a prolife doctor, and just couldn't find one. But when she says "No, I didn't even try to get a second opinion", that raises certain suspicions in my mind.

reply from: yoda

That you would comment on what I actually said, not what you believed I was thinking. Your comment had no basis in what I actually said, did it?
No, I would not. I would not object to a mother making the decision to defend her own life in that case, but I would hope that she would ask the physician to give the baby every possible consideration and respect. Is that asking too much?
What on earth are you talking about? When have I made any criticism against Christianity?

reply from: churchmouse

"No, I would not. I would not object to a mother making the decision to defend her own life in that case, but I would hope that she would ask the physician to give the baby every possible consideration and respect. Is that asking too much? "
In the true pro-life stance, you would still be killing something to save something.
What if the baby was going to be aborted way before viability? If like Faithman you and Nancy maintain, it is equal to the life of a born child......then it would be murder.
I said what I did based on this comment you made.
It wasnt that you bashed Christianity, but your response is not shocking because you have no belief in God. God loves both and does not want to forget both.

reply from: carolemarie

Like I tell the other proaborts here, when a female is pregnant, she ALREADY HAS A BABY!!
Remember that now? But you really don't care, do you?
Oh, and congratulations on avoiding answering the question YOURSELF!
I know this will come as a shock, but I don't read every post on this board and I don't answer every question. Sometimes I have you on ignore and don't see them.

reply from: yoda

No, the doctor would be doing that, at the woman's request. All I stated was that I would not object to her exercising her right of self defense. And you tried to make something else out of it. What would you do, tell her that she must risk her life anyway?
Killing in defense of your own life is not murder.
So why the response as if I had attacked Christianity?
You're not willing to address all my questions, are you? Here's what you said in response to my saying that I put babies first: "Of course you do. Why should you care about anyone else? That is a very sad lifechoice to take. That you give up on people that make mistakes. "
Now where in my statement did I say that I "didn't care about anyone else"? Come on, have a little dignity and honesty here, where did I say that?

reply from: yoda

That's not the issue here.
You said "make her" (have a baby). If she's pregnant, she ALREADY has a baby.
You're making the same argument the proaborts make. Exactly the same argument.

reply from: nancyu

Like give an example of what you mean. What is that rare case?
Well, she was on here all last night but she wouldn't answer the question. How long are you going to wait?
She said she'll fight personhood tooth and nail - that's a direct quote. What MORE do you need to know?
I think you're another faux lifer.
Have to correct you here CL. What she actually said was http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=4411

reply from: churchmouse

Is it the childs fault he is in that situation?
He is still living is he not? Is he still innocant? Did he give his consent?
You are still killing a living human being.
If I said things the wrong way, and did not make position clear I do apologize.
For people to figure out why people of faith do things sometimes is hard, especially when they reject what that person believes.
You say that because I put God first, the unborn really isn't an important issue for me. And it is. I just put God first before anything else. You said, the child comes before the woman. I said I dont think God feels this way. He loves the sinner as well and He wouldnt give up on anyone.

reply from: yoda

That is an outright lie. I said because you put the woman first, you don't appear to care that the child is killed and the woman is the killer.
Unlike you, I will not try to read the mind of God here on this forum. I will, however, say that I do not believe it is just and right to put the killer ahead of the victim of the killer.
In no other violent killing of the innocent do we put the killer first, and the victim second.

reply from: nancyu

Ahem, I am a woman, and I don't hate myself at all. I don't think yoda, Chrisitian, and faithman hate me either.
What we hate are pro aborts, especially those dressed in pro life clothing. But pro abort women are not women, they're not even people. Real women wouldn't use the fact that a pregnancy is unexpected, or even forced upon them by something as evil as rape, as an excuse to kill their children, and real women aren't ashamed to take time out of their busy lives to care for them.
Go ahead and call me a pro abort hater if it makes you feel better. At least that would be the truth.

reply from: nancyu

What is the most sucessful thing you have done to stop abortion
I'll get back to you when it stops.

reply from: carolemarie

That's not the issue here.
You said "make her" (have a baby). If she's pregnant, she ALREADY has a baby.
You're making the same argument the proaborts make. Exactly the same argument.
By make her I am referring to make her give birth..either physically or by c-section

reply from: Rosalie

Hypocritical much? I love that people like you show your true colors almost every single time they post.
And for your informaiton, real women do not consider their uteruses to be the most important thing about them.

reply from: yoda

Yes, you used the proabort expression "to have a baby" to mean giving birth.
You ignored the biological fact that a pregnant woman already has a baby.
Your emphaisis is on using proabort expressions rather than speaking out for the baby that already exists. Getting along with, and sounding like the proaborts seems to have the top place on your priority list.

reply from: Rosalie

To have a baby to mean giving birth is a pro-abort expression?
You should start selling tickets to this circus.

reply from: yoda

And yet, you hate me and my photography so much that you threatened to use your "martial arts skills" to crush me and/or my camera. Hate seems to be your main motivating factor on this forum.
Since you advocate violence against my camera, do you also advocate violence against unoccupied abortion mills? Or does your anger extend only to people who are trying to save babies?

reply from: nancyu

That's not the issue here.
You said "make her" (have a baby). If she's pregnant, she ALREADY has a baby.
You're making the same argument the proaborts make. Exactly the same argument.
By make her I am referring to make her give birth..either physically or by c-section
Like Yoda said, exactly the same argument.

reply from: carolemarie

We already know she is pregnant, the issue here is do we force her to give birth...I fail to see what you are talking about, the fact we are discussing her giving birth assumes that she is pregnant with a baby,

reply from: nancyu

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck....

reply from: yoda

You are echoing the proabort propaganda, and you don't know what I am talking about?
No, not everyone admits that a pregnant woman has a baby, in case you haven't noticed. Lots of proaborts say it isn't a baby until birth.
And you are going right along with that theme by your "don't force her to have a baby" talk.
You seem to be going to a lot of trouble to sound exactly like a proabort. Is that some kind of new strategy for you?

reply from: BossMomma

And yet, you hate me and my photography so much that you threatened to use your "martial arts skills" to crush me and/or my camera. Hate seems to be your main motivating factor on this forum.
Since you advocate violence against my camera, do you also advocate violence against unoccupied abortion mills? Or does your anger extend only to people who are trying to save babies?
Actually that was probably me, I actually know martial arts, I doubt Scopia does.

reply from: scopia19822

"Actually that was probably me, I actually know martial arts, I doubt Scopia does."
I did say that I would smash his camera if he or anyone else took a pic of me without my consent. And Im a practioner of Aikido, which is similar to Hepkido which is that is taught to law enforcement . Yoda doesnt seem to understand that I or anyone else who practices Aikido could remove the camera from his hand with causing him bodily harm or laying a finger on him. Aikido isnt like Karate or other marital arts.

reply from: yoda

What Yoda does understand is how stupid you sound. You have no idea what the situation is here, nor do you know where the camera is, or how it is defended. You just sound plain old stupid.
BTW, you never answered my question: do you approve of the bombing of empty abortion mills or not?

reply from: scopia19822

"And yet, you hate me and my photography so much that you threatened to use your "martial arts skills" to crush me and/or my camera. Hate seems to be your main motivating factor on this forum."
I dont hate you as I dont personally know you, however and I never threatned your person, just your camera or anyone else who took a pic of me without my knowledge no matter where I am at. You were the one that said you would beat me up or do what ever it took I am assuming short of letal force to defend your and your camera. What you are doing is purely punative and mean spirted. Does the clinic only do abortions on Saturdays? Or do they happen to provide BC and well woman care as well at the same time. I would hate to be a woman who just went in for a pap smear and nex thing I know Im being posted online as a woman who aborted, even the PP in Roanoke offers these services on Saturdays for women who work during the week. You have to be careful about what you say and do when dealing with these women. Now getting back to the camera if I was coming out of the grocery store and some creepy man I didnt know was taking pics of me or worse my son, do you propose that I let him keep the camera rolling or go over and take it and asked what his malfunction is. You will never see me coming out of a filthy abortion clinic, so you will never get the opportunity to film me so why do you worry about what I would do to someone else who would be taking my pic without my consent?
"Since you advocate violence against my camera, do you also advocate violence against unoccupied abortion mills? Or does your anger extend only to people who are trying to save babies?"
Oh Hail Yodas camera! I dont advocate violence of any kind, however since Im not proabortion as you have said I am, which BTW is slander/libel you will never see me near an abortion clinic unless Im at the PP with women from my parish you will never have t film me.

reply from: scopia19822

"BTW, you never answered my question: do you approve of the bombing of empty abortion mills or not?"
No I dont advocate bombing anything. Even if the building is unoccupied an innocent bystander could be walking by and be killed/injuried not to mention occupants of nearby properties. Do you advocate the right for some creepy man to go around taking pics of women at places other than an abortion clinic? I dont care if you think I sound stupid, the fact that because someone disagrees with you is grounds enought to be "listed" shows your true maturity.

reply from: yoda

[That's a lie.] I'm glad you're not on "my" side.
Except against me and/or my camera, right?
And you'll use your martial arts skills because they aren't "violent", right?
What lies......

reply from: yoda

And yet, you don't care whether you have to go through me to get to my camera, do you?
You're just full of hate, aren't you?

reply from: scopia19822

"lies..."
Isnt that the pot calling the kettle black. You are saying I am proabortion when I dont support legalized abortion under any circumstances, thats not only lying thats slanderous. All because I had the audacity to disagree with you? I left behind such immature notians in middle school. If I intended to actually physically hurt you or anyone else, I would tell you straight out, not say that I would take your camers and leave your person alone. Go ahead and keep taking your pics, legally you can do that much. However be prepared for even the remote possibilty of being sued as I assume even if they said dont publish it you would anyway.

reply from: scopia19822

"And yet, you don't care whether you have to go through me to get to my camera, do you?
You're just full of hate, aren't you?"
Its not just about you Yodahater, are you really that narcaccistic ? Its about ANYONE who would photograph me without my consent and since it would be someone doing it as I was coming out of somewhere other than an aboriton clinc that person has to be a stalker or simply a creep? Where are my rights? Or is it just all about the photographers?

reply from: nancyu


Didn't you forget EXCEPT prior to implantation???hmmm?
Yup, I guess you have.

reply from: yoda

So you admit that you lied about what I have posted?
Why do you tell such lies?

reply from: yoda

You have no right to privacy when you are out in public.
Why is that so incredibly difficult for you to comprehend?

reply from: nancyu

You have no right to privacy when you are out in public.
Why is that so incredibly difficult for you to comprehend?
NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION



This is probably one of the better e-mails I've seen in a long, long
time.
The following has been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Kaye
from GA. This guy should run for President one day...:


'We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help
everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots,
keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure th e
blessings
of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our
great-great-great-grandchildren,
hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense
guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other
constant bed-wetters. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a
whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim
they
require
a Bill of NON-Rights.'



ARTICLE I: You do NOT have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any
other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them,
but no one is guaranteeing anything.



ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This
country
is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just yo
u!
You may leave
the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the
world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.


>> ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you
stick
a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the
tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently
wealthy.



ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing.
Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly
help
anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing
generation
after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more
than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes .
(This one is my pet peeve...get an education and go to work....don't
expect
everyone else to take care of you!)



ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would
be
nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in
public health care.



ARTICLE VI: You do
not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap,
rape,
intentionally maim, or kill someone, http://www.lifeissues.org/ultrasound/11weeks.htm don't be surprised if the rest of us
want to see you fry in the electric chair.



ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others!
If
you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens,
don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a
place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a
life of leisure.



ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want
you
to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard
times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of
education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself
useful.
(AMEN!)



ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American
means that you have the right to PURSUE
happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by
an
over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused
by
the Bill of Rights.



ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you
are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you
came from! (Lastly....)



ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or
heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God..
And
yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any
faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN
GOD
WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are
uncomfortable
with it, TOUGH!


If you agree, share this with a friend. No, you don't have to, and
nothing
tragic will befall you if you don't. I just think it's about time common
sense is allowed to flourish. Sensible people of the United States
speak
out.....because if you don't, who will?

reply from: yoda

Good one.
It's just amazing how some people can come up with all these "rights" that no one else has.
The most interesting one is that "Article II", because there are actually Supreme Court rulings to the effect that we do not have a right "not to be offended".
In Terminiello v. City of Chicago, 337 U.S. 1, 4 (1949) the US Supreme Court ruled that free speech "may indeed best serve its high purpose when it induces a condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger."
In Forsyth County v. Nationalist Movement, 505 U.S. 123, 134-35 (1992) the US Supreme Court ruled that speech cannot be "punished or banned, simply because it might offend a hostile mob."
In Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15, 21 (1971) the US Supreme Court ruled that viewers who dislike a message have a responsibility to "avoid further bombardment of their sensibilities simply by averting their eyes."

reply from: scopia19822

"Didn't you forget EXCEPT prior to implantation???hmmm?"
OMG you are just grasping for straws. Many people who are prolife dont have a problem with birth control or the MAP. ALL of us agree that once a pregnancy is established and that is the case when most women find out there pregnant that abortion is immoral and should be illegal. Do you want abortions to be outlawed ? I guess not if you call anyone who supports that life begins at implantation as a proabort. You really are immature, please for the love of God grow up. I took you off Iggy because I cooled off and I dont like to use it, but I think you will be a permanant fixture on it.

reply from: yoda

Now you are saying that if a lot of people do it, it must be moral?
The principle of the protection of innocent human life knows no boundaries, no limits, and no numbers games. If you can't consider new human life before implantation to be worthy of protection, then you are not, IMO, prolife.

reply from: nancyu

correction: "many people who call themselves pro life..."
but whatever... go ahead and put me on iggy, do you really think hurts my feelings? You're pretty funny...

reply from: scopia19822

"you can't consider new human life before implantation to be worthy of protection, then you are not, IMO, prolife."
At least you being honest, I dont measure up to YOUR standards. I only support giving the MAP to rape victims not the general public. If a woman finds out shes pregnant at 1 month, 2 ..... a human life is there all of its systems are growing and maturing. She has no right to kill that child under ANY circumstances and that isnt prolife enough for you, well I dont give a damn if I dont measure up to your standards.

reply from: Faramir

Here's something to consider:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=968

reply from: BossMomma

You never get tired of lying, do you? I'm glad you're not on "my" side.
Except against me and/or my camera, right?
And you'll use your martial arts skills because they aren't "violent", right?
What a liar......
Scopia never said she'd use martial arts against you stupid, I'm the one that said I'd kick your ass if you took my pic without permission. Get your shyte straight.

reply from: scopia19822

"Scopia never said she'd use martial arts against you stupid, I'm the one that said I'd kick your ass if you took my pic without permission. Get your shyte straight."
Actually Boss I told him that I was use a technique I learned in Aikido to disarm him . Which means that I would take the camera out of his hand or anyone else who took my pic without permission. However I did state I would/could do so without laying a hand on their person. As the intent is to get the camera, not cause bodily harm to the photographer. However I would get "violent" at someone taking a pic of my kids.

reply from: yoda

So to you babies conceived in rape are not worthy of protection, but other babies are?
Wow.......

reply from: yoda

And when they naturally resisted your attempts, you would then try to use your martial arts on them, right?
You have repeatedly approved the use of violence to destroy my camera, whether it's you or someone else, so why don't you approve of the use of violence against an empty abortion mill?
Why so hypocritical? Or do you think less of me than of an abortion mill?

reply from: scopia19822

"So to you babies conceived in rape are not worthy of protection, but other babies are?
Wow......."
There is no reasoning with you. As you cant comprehend common sense. A rape victim should be given the option of the MAP so that she doesnt have to contemplate being faced with the prospect of going to a PP and aborting the child, especially if she has friends and family urging it on. If she doesnt get the MAP and becomes pregnant as the result of the rape that doesnt give her the right to kill that child. Of course thats not prolife for you and I really dont care if I measure up to your standards or not. Is it about the babies Yoda or is it about revenge?

reply from: yoda

So you want her to be able to kill the baby right away so she won't have to abort it later?
Is that what you're saying?

reply from: scopia19822

'And when they naturally resisted your attempts, you would then try to use your martial arts on them, right? "
Only if they lay hands on me by punching, hitting, spitting, kicking. If they just held on to the camera I would just call the cops and ask them if its legal for some creep to take my pic without my permission. Under Virginia law I could have such a person charged with stalking.

reply from: scopia19822

"So you want her to be able to kill the baby right away so she won't have to abort it later?
Is that what you're saying?"
You seem to know what Im thinking and saying so whatever. We are talking about a pill that could possibly prevent implantation, but it could also prevent sperm from meeting egg or ovulation from breaking through, the latter two are not abortificent methods. We dont know exactly how it may work on that woman, however what does it matter to you.

reply from: yoda

Like I said before, you are full of crap.

reply from: yoda

What does any baby killing matter to me? It ALL matters to me.
You really don't understand the principle of opposing the elective killing of innocent human beings, do you?
All innocent human beings are worthy of protection, not just those that are not inconvenient to YOU.

reply from: BossMomma

Ah ok, I never had you pegged for a martial arts student. I took kick boxing and muay tai which are highly combative.

reply from: scopia19822

Ah ok, I never had you pegged for a martial arts student. I took kick boxing and muay tai which are highly combative.
Aikido isnt hight combative, my disabled husband can do, in fact he is the one that taught me somethings mainly for self defense purposes, including how to disarm knives, guns and other weapons. Its more about discipline of the mind than anything else.

reply from: scopia19822

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikido

This will give some general information Boss.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You have the right to tell the photographer not to publish the photo anywhere and s/he MUST comply. If you see the photo published anywhere you can then seek immediate legal action to have the photo removed. I have stated this numerous times.

reply from: scopia19822

"You have the right to tell the photographer not to publish the photo anywhere and s/he MUST comply. If you see the photo published anywhere you can then seek immediate legal action to have the photo removed. I have stated this numerous times."
Thanks Lib so have I , but Yoda and even some others dont understand that. Its nice to hear that Im not the only one who knows this. Makes me feel validated.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah well a degree in graphic design (which involves a large component of photography and an even larger component of understanding copyright law) might just make me a wee bit of an authority on this compared to others on this forum lol

reply from: churchmouse

Wow and you don't think that is a low blow? I don't appear to care?........thanks yoda.
Because you are not a Christian you do not know where I am coming from. But I guess it doesn't really matter does it? You call me what you want.
I never said put the woman ahead of anything. I said I put God first. But we can't forget sinners.
You hate? You are a Christian remember that nancy. Or does your passion for abortion and your hatred of those that have them trump your faith in God?
What you say and do should reflect Gods heart. You can hate the act of abortion....BUT YOU CANT HATE THE PERSON THAT DOES IT. You ought to look at them as someone that did something evil, but someone God can save. They should be punished, they should have to pay........but to throw them away....is biblically ungodly.

Paul killed and murdered Christians..........AND GOD CHOSE HIM TO WRITE MOST THE BOOKS IN THE BIBLE. HE DID NOT HATE HIM, HE CHANGED HIS LIFE. And Paul as one of Gods handpicked apostles helped to change peoples lives by spreading and sharing the gospel.
You should read some of Charles Colesons books. He went to prison for Watergate and served time. God changed him in prison and today he has the largest prison ministry in the world. He is not forgetting about the sinner.
We have every right to be appauled and outraged at those that have abortions, at the entire abortion industry.... it is murder and wrong. But we should minister to those who have them. They are lost and need to hear the Word.
I am sick of you and fan club saying that we who believe that the woman needs to be ministered to.... not pro-life.
The Christians here that are the stone throwers should know better. Your passion should include the woman and her salvation for her wrong.
EXCELLENT COMMENT AS USUAL FROM YOU SCOPIA.
You know if you read the bible you will pick up quickly who Jesus hung around with. He hung around the sinners, the murderers, reliigous outcasts etc. He did not kick them to the curb, in fact He invited them to His community. He did not give up. When he told the adulterous woman that she was sinning.....he saved her life didnt he? He stopped them from stoning her. She was a slut, a whore, a sinner. HE SAVED HER LIFE. Can you image that? He saved her.
He told her, didn't slap her around physically or verbally, didnt yell but simply said..........."go and sin no more."
Wow. The control. He did not namecall. He spoke in kindness and mercy. And all those who witnessed this probably were changed as well.
You guys seem to be more interested in making yourselves feel better by tearing down. Is it a release? You want vengeance but for who?
Rosalie said,
No but any woman that loves God knows what a gift that uterus is and what it was intended for.

Yoda feel free to film me standing at abortion clinics.....use it however you wish. I am not embarrassed being there.
Kicking my camera out of my hand without touching me? My camera has a strap on it and I put it around my neck.

reply from: Faramir

Well, that's not actually "incorrect", it's just insensitive, callous, and cold.
Just like you!
I though a fetus was a baby.
What's wrong with saying fetus?
Is there a new definition of "pro-life" that says if one uses the word "fetus" he is not pro-life, but "pro-abort."
And I can't find a definition for the word "pro-abort," btw. Could someone help?

reply from: Faramir

I don't think she claims to be a Christian.

reply from: carolemarie

Having a baby is what we call it when we go to the hospital to deliver. Everyone says that! They call and say, Mary is having the baby. Or I am taking Cindy to the hospital to have the baby...
You are imagining tings again!

reply from: Faramir

Yeah well a degree in graphic design (which involves a large component of photography and an even larger component of understanding copyright law) might just make me a wee bit of an authority on this compared to others on this forum lol
I think it could qaulify as use for "editorial purposes," and that no permission or release is necessary.

reply from: Faramir

You're right on the money with this one.
In fact, this is how I thought ALL prolifers were until I came to this forum.
It's quite disturbing to see the level of hatred and abusiveness that eminates from people who claim to "love the babies."

reply from: carolemarie

I LOVE that story! Jesus forgave her before she asked! Outragous love, and He poured it out all over her!

reply from: micah

According to the Guttmacher Institute, 70% percent of women obtaining abortions are Christians. I don't think someone identifying themselves as a Christian means that much.

reply from: carolemarie

That sounds a bit high. Last time I checked it was only slightly higher than nonchristian women.

reply from: scopia19822

"I think it could qaulify as use for "editorial purposes," and that no permission or release is necessary."
No, when my husband and son went to a local neighborhood gathering last summer to promote the new neighborhood watch program the photographer for our newspaper asked permission to photograph him and my son. They had to get him to sign a release to photograph our son, even though the back of his head is what was being published and not his face. News reporters will ask the consent of a person before they will put them on the air. All of that involves various aspects of journalism.

reply from: Faramir

If there is a newsworthy event and someone is in a photograph in a public place, I don't think there is any need for permission to publish it.

reply from: yoda

It doesn't even have to be newsworthy, as long as it is not used for commercial purposes, no release is needed. If it is used for commercial purposes, the photographer needs either a release, or s/he can be forced to share the money paid for the photo. At least, that's the situation in my state.
We have a lot of very uneducated hot air specialists on this forum.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It doesn't even have to be newsworthy, as long as it is not used for commercial purposes, no release is needed. If it is used for commercial purposes, the photographer needs either a release, or s/he can be forced to share the money paid for the photo. At least, that's the situation in my state.
We have a lot of very uneducated hot air specialists on this forum.
Theonly exception is again if the subject of the photo asks for it to not be published. Posting it to the internet counts as publishing it.


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