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Abortion = Compassion

poll

by: ChristianLott2

Always, Sometimes, Never.
What say you? Please respond with your answer in a post so we can all know who stands where.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Gosh, is this question just obvious? And the one who voted 'sometimes', why didn't you leave a message so we know who you are? Are you ashamed of your answer?

reply from: micah

I am one of the people who voted "sometimes".

reply from: rsg007

It was me who cast the first vote for "sometimes" and no, I'm not ashamed, just unaware we were also required to post a comment (this is the first poll I have voted in). Take the example of a woman brutally raped who ends up pregnant and cannot bear to carry the child. Abortion is compassion for her. You may argue it's not the unborn child's fault and of course that's true, but in this case (and actually any case) the woman's feelings are the only thing that matters.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yeah, I just want to know who and if you want you can give an example great. People like to call themselves pro life but actually believe different things. I just want to know exactly (sometimes, never). Thanks.
Don't want to debate, just want to know right now.

reply from: CharlesD

The deliberate taking of innocent life is not an act of compassion.

reply from: Rhiannontex

Okay, I voted sometimes, but ONLY because I'm thinking of an unborn with a horrible horrible condition that can only end in suffering and death. Not for cleft palate or lobster claw or such, but something like Tay Sachs disease, yes, I could see that. That said, such abortions would be relatively few.

reply from: carolemarie

I voted sometimes, because in some situtations it might be

reply from: micah

oh, I didn't know we were supposed to give an example.
Here's an example: If a woman has an ectopic pregnancy.
I would say it would be very cruel not to let a woman with a ectopic pregancy get an abortion.

reply from: Banned Member

I voted sometimes. I think it's an act of compassion in the case of rape, or in the case of a health risk for the mother, or in the case of the child being born with a painful disease that will lead to a painful death. However it should be noted that just because I don't find a particular abortion to be an act of compassion, it doesn't mean that I don't support a woman's right to choose or that I don't feel compassion for any woman in that situation.

reply from: ChristianLott2

alright. thanks for not debating. keep em coming.

reply from: lukesmom

I voted never. In the case of rape killing the child just adds more violence to an already violent act. In the case of a poor or fatal diagnosis for the child, well ripping them apart or causing them to sufficate due to immature lungs (induced labor abortion) or sticking a sissors in their brain doesn't sound real compassionate to me. I certainly wouldn't find any of those compassionate if done to me.

reply from: socratease

I belive some could be deceived into thinking in could be compassion sometimes, but it never is.
Mercy killing or euthanasia is never compassion either, though some could be misguided into thinking it is, and may be motivated by a distorted sense of compassion, but objectively it is a moral evil.

reply from: 4given

So you voted "sometimes"?

reply from: yoda

Never. There are always much better ways to deal with problem pregnancies than intentionally killing the unborn baby, which is what abortion is.
If the killing of the innocent were ever viewed as compassionate, we'd all get to decide when it's okay to kill someone, and it would be legal to do so.

reply from: nancyu

NeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNever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reply from: ChristianLott2

There are some voters missing. Just trying to remove some ambiguity here. Thanks.

reply from: Banned Member

How can abortion be sometimes compassionate? When? Compassionate to whom? No one!

reply from: Rosalie

Neither of these.
My answer is "mostly". It is not compassionate only when the woman is or feels forced into making this decision. Forcing anyone to continue the pregnancy OR aborting it AGAINST THEIR WILL is never compassionate and always wrong.

reply from: lukesmom

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Yeah, what could be more compassionate than forcing a woman to carry a doomed mutant pregnancy to fruition?"
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/PEDHTML/PED026.html
What could be more compassionate that forcing her to go through the labor and delivery process so that she can crank out some tragic mess - or better yet - deliver that mess ALIVE so she can spend the next hour watching it shudder and gasp as its primitive brain stem fails?
Compassion is ending a pregnancy like that as early as possible and helping the woman become physically and emotionally sound so she can try again.
Anyone who would FORCE a woman endure that tragedy a nanosecond longer than neccessary has serious issues...
Actually you don't have a clue about this issue so really need to keep your ignorant opinions to yourself. I love your "mutant" comment. It proves again what a stupid b*tch you are. My son looked like picture #5 and no, killing him by your methods would not have been "compassionate" by any means. Not for him, not for me and not for our family. YOU are not allowed to have a say in this, YOU have no experience of this and if you think abortion causes a woman who faces this to immediantly be "sound" so she can try again, you are very much mistaken.
You have shown over and over and over again the serious issues you suffer.

reply from: lukesmom

And violently killing another human being, no matter what stage of developement they are in, is never compassionate to that human being.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I voted sometimes for the same reasons Micah did, relating to ectopic pregnancies. I think it's horrible unmerciful to force a woman to die. And, while I also don't agree with aborting due to lethal fetal deformities, I can understand for the same reason I understand but dislike euthanasia.

reply from: lukesmom

What are you talking about and I would like to see where you are getting this. we were elated with oops #2 because I as pregnant with my son Pete who is now 10. No where have I ever said I was elated by my mc. In fact that miscarraige sent me into chronic depression that I took meds for for years.
You have sunk very low when you have to attack another's grief and sorrow for the loss of 2 children. It reflects very poorly on you and choicers in general.

reply from: lukesmom

Again, Oops # 2 was finding out I was pregnant again which resulted in our son, Pete, one of my life's joys. Believe what you want. I know the truth. We didn't have insurance when I mc and I tried so hard to keep that pregnancy. All night I laid still in bed because everytime I moved I would hemmorhage again. When I had to go into the bathroom, I would remove tissue from the toilet because I was so afraid of flushing my baby down the toilet. Finally the bleeding was so bad I had to go to the ER. I have a history of hemmorraging with labor and this was no differnt. Actually the pain was worse then labor because of the emotional pain. 2-3 months later, I was unintentionally pregnant again and we were elated. I often wonder if that mc child may have had anencephaly like it's brother and that is why I mc. I am greatful for my Pete and love him beyond words but often, esp in the beginning of April, think of my 1st angel who lives forever in my heart.
Thank you pinheaddy for bringing up these bitter sweet memories and the pain of that time and the thoughts of how I initially didn't want this child for MANY reasons, not all monetary.

reply from: yoda

Pinheaddy loves to get us started on ourselves, because when we are defending ourselves we can't talk about abortion.
And pinheaddy hates to talk about abortion. Anything but that.

reply from: lukesmom

Actually the fact that I didn't kill any of my children seems to bother her greatly. She says she is for choice but what she posts actually shows she is only for aborting.
I am wondering if we?, I?, have struck a nerve here as she has resorted to such low blows. Whatever her evil reasons, she can roll around in the muck, by herself. Have fun pinny!

reply from: ChristianLott2

Spinhead was talking about the fatally deformed baby she linked to I think, not about every last picture on the web site. If I understood right, it was not about murdering deformed children, just fatally deformed children. If this was a direct attack at lukesmom I must have missed it.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Lukesmom's child was fatally afflicted.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Lukesmom's child was fatally afflicted.
A wonderful story.
Why would spinny want to murder that child?
Are there other posters who say it's okay to murder those babies? How awful. I'm sorry lukesmom.
Are there any instances where a child is so deformed that if they are not aborted they will kill the mother? That's kind of what I was meaning. Sorry.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Lukesmom's child was fatally afflicted.
A wonderful story.
Why would spinny want to murder that child?
Are there other posters who say it's okay to murder those babies? How awful. I'm sorry lukesmom.
Are there any instances where a child is so deformed that if they are not aborted they will kill the mother? That's kind of what I was meaning. Sorry.
I did hear of a case where the deformity was linked to low amnionic fluid and the woman was in intense pain because of it. She was denied an abortion because she wasn't dying, but there could certainly be a situation where the child's own deformity is lethal for the mother as well.

reply from: lukesmom

I believe in hydrocephaly the child could be hard to deliver. In that case a C-section would solve the problem. There is also a condition called polyhydroamnios which is a build up amniotic fluid because the child is unable to swallow. I had this. If it gets too bad a precedure similar to an amnio can be done to remove some of the fluid. Other than that, I have never heard of a deformity that would harm the mother.

reply from: lukesmom

Lukesmom's child was fatally afflicted.
A wonderful story.
Why would spinny want to murder that child?
Are there other posters who say it's okay to murder those babies? How awful. I'm sorry lukesmom.
Are there any instances where a child is so deformed that if they are not aborted they will kill the mother? That's kind of what I was meaning. Sorry.
Last year my other 4 kids where diagnosed with a genetic (we think) heart condition. My oldest who was 15 at the time was taken out of sports and all are monitored closely as this condition is very unusual. spinny insinuated none of them should have been born if I would have had prenatal testing. Silly spinny has no idea of what she is talking about since I did have prenatal testing with them and they didn't have any problems to even look for this until last year. For some reason spinny now wants to bring this all up and use it to attack me. She has done this mutant stuff in the past too. So now you are up to date with spinny who every once in a while shows herself for the scum she really is.

reply from: faithman

Lukesmom's child was fatally afflicted.
A wonderful story.
Why would spinny want to murder that child?
Are there other posters who say it's okay to murder those babies? How awful. I'm sorry lukesmom.
Are there any instances where a child is so deformed that if they are not aborted they will kill the mother? That's kind of what I was meaning. Sorry.
Last year my other 4 kids where diagnosed with a genetic (we think) heart condition. My oldest who was 15 at the time was taken out of sports and all are monitored closely as this condition is very unusual. spinny insinuated none of them should have been born if I would have had prenatal testing. Silly spinny has no idea of what she is talking about since I did have prenatal testing with them and they didn't have any problems to even look for this until last year. For some reason spinny now wants to bring this all up and use it to attack me. She has done this mutant stuff in the past too. So now you are up to date with spinny who every once in a while shows herself for the scum she really is.
The only thing I might add is Low life scum.

reply from: lukesmom

How about low life pond scum.

reply from: micah

spinwiddy is one of the handful of sane people on this forum.

reply from: nancyu

Riddle:
What is the difference between spinny and a Sucker-belly Loach?
One is a scum sucking bottom feeder, and the other one is a fish.

reply from: lukesmom

If that's your idea of "sane", I hope I'm not one of your "handful"! You condone her behaviour here? If so, have fun playing with her in the slime of her creation. The rest of us have too much dignity.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Being sane doesn't make her nice.

reply from: carolemarie

I think that Lukes mom was very brave and couragaous. I respect her for what she does and has been through.
I don't know how I would handle such a situtation, hopefully I would have met someone like Lukes mom or have counseling that let me have the option to let my child live and be with us.
If that child will die anyways, why would I want to be responsible for it's death.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Of those who voted sometimes, I can't figure out if the people above are pro life or not.
Of those who voted never, could you please explain why these three are wrong in your opinion.
Imo, and based on what I know of the responders, everyone else who voted 'sometimes' are pro choice. I'm just not entirely sure about these three responses.
Thanks.

reply from: carolemarie

Saying a woman has to die to give birth isn't prolife. Both lives count and you can defend your own.
If an ectopic pregnancy is not ended, the woman will die. Her life counts.
Extremely painful diseases that will result in death. Compassionet hekp
Rhiannontex= prolife
Liberal chi Ro= prolife
Micah=prochoice

reply from: Banned Member

I believe it most worthy to note that one child with a defect may bring more joy and compassion into this world than a thousand spineless heartless butchering abortion providers. More and more Downs children are being murdered for no better reason than that vain parents deem them inconveniant or less than perfect. What people do not understand is that where there is tragedy, there is always hope that life may serve as a sign, that our compassion and willingness to suffer with another is worth more than our mechanical and mindless capacity to simply administer death to those who we fear to address as human persons. Luke's mothers own personal witness to life serves to bring more to people in the way of an understanding of human compassion and self giving than a thousand sterile clinical instances of abortion that pretend to bring compassion and which only bring death and meaninglessness. That life may not always appear perfect, or may appear in the form of illness, disease or otherwise seemingly in disarray does not take away from our belief that shared in and with others is a hope for peace and purpose in death. These little martyrs that die because nature is not always a rational arbiter serve notice of the millions alike to them as persons who die as perfect examples of the beauty and perfection of life which is brutally thrown away for the sake of conveniance. The act of abortion can never rationalize the irrational! One instance that feigns caring and humanity cannot excuse the millions of conceived unborn children who die by the same inhumane abortionists hands. To abuse the sick in the defense of murder is beyond inhumane. It is pervertedly cold violent calculating vengeance upon the innocent who accuse those guilty of celebrating abortion. From death these little children accuse the truly guilty who advocate abortion with every lie they speak in the name of and defense of the practice. God bless the little children!

reply from: Teresa18

Look what I found at Spinny's site. It's a picture of a second trimester abortion. This is a medical site not run by those "lying" pro-lifers. What say the pro-aborts. Is this one fake as well? It sure looks like pictures of second trimester abortions on pro-life sites.
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/PEDHTML/PED028.html

reply from: 4given

Oh dear God. She is more heinous and vindictive than anyone could have thought.
She knows full well what Sue was faced with... she wants to hurt her further for choosing life. Spinny's site, huh?

reply from: faithman

But you are responcible for the death of 3, and have done all kinds of semantical back flips to avoid that responcibility. You have sunk so low as to using pro-death rhetoric to justify your little "youthful mistake". So please don't even pretend that you truely care when you have proven over and over again that the only thing you really care about is yourself. And you have shown over and over again that you are willing to shove the womb child under the bus for your self interest. This issue ends when equality thru personhood is established for the womb child. That is something you have vowed to fight. You have been a false voice from the beginning. And no amount of pretence here is going to cover that one up.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Excellent point.
It already is.

reply from: CharlesD

Watch http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=th6Njr-qkq0 and then tell me which is the compassionate choice.

reply from: carolemarie

But you are responcible for the death of 3, and have done all kinds of semantical back flips to avoid that responcibility. You have sunk so low as to using pro-death rhetoric to justify your little "youthful mistake". So please don't even pretend that you truely care when you have proven over and over again that the only thing you really care about is yourself. And you have shown over and over again that you are willing to shove the womb child under the bus for your self interest. This issue ends when equality thru personhood is established for the womb child. That is something you have vowed to fight. You have been a false voice from the beginning. And no amount of pretence here is going to cover that one up.
Get a grip Fboy. I was youthful, if you count teenagers as youthful. It was a mistake. I have said that repeatedly.
Your big complaint is that I don't like your personhood amendment. I do not have to like it or support it to be prolife.
If I said you had to support my bill to be prolife you would scream how it isn't so. Same thing dude

reply from: LiberalChiRo

"How can abortion be sometimes compassionate? When? Compassionate to whom? No one!"
This was already explained Augustine. When the woman is going to die and abortion is the only answer, it is certainly compassionate.

reply from: yoda

It was a "mistake"?
That sounds like someone explaining how they took the wrong route to the parade.....

reply from: yoda

Not really. It's tragic, and it's realistic, in that it recognizes the right of self-defense, but it really isn't "compassionate" to electively kill an innocent human being, ever.

reply from: faithman

But you are responcible for the death of 3, and have done all kinds of semantical back flips to avoid that responcibility. You have sunk so low as to using pro-death rhetoric to justify your little "youthful mistake". So please don't even pretend that you truely care when you have proven over and over again that the only thing you really care about is yourself. And you have shown over and over again that you are willing to shove the womb child under the bus for your self interest. This issue ends when equality thru personhood is established for the womb child. That is something you have vowed to fight. You have been a false voice from the beginning. And no amount of pretence here is going to cover that one up.
Get a grip Fboy. I was youthful, if you count teenagers as youthful. It was a mistake. I have said that repeatedly.
Your big complaint is that I don't like your personhood amendment. I do not have to like it or support it to be prolife.
If I said you had to support my bill to be prolife you would scream how it isn't so. Same thing dude
Excuse me, but you don't get to say what my "big complaint" is. You don't have a bill other than ones that say mom gets to kill child at the end of it. My complaint is that you still believing in killing womb children for self interest. Has nothing to do with what bill you suport per say. It is about the fact that you are the deadly enemy of the womb child, both in word and deed. Thats the big deal in a nut shell.

reply from: faithman

Whats the difference between spinny and a bucket of dog crap? The bucket of course!!!

reply from: ChristianLott2

That was a very beautiful video Charles. Thanks.
Thanks for reminding us about Carole's lie telling everyone she's pro life when she's not, fman.
Thanks for reminding us what compassion means, yv.
Anybody want to answer directly if ectopic pregnancy or Tay Sachs is a good enough reason to abort?

reply from: SRUW4I5

Yes, there is nothing wrong with having an abortion when it's an ectopic pregnancy.
Source: http://www.medicinenet.com/ectopic_pregnancy/article.htm

Source: http://kidshealth.org/parent/pregnancy_newborn/pregnancy/ectopic.html

Why make it so both the pregnant woman and the preborn child die when the woman can live?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yeah, I thought that was the standard exception - ectopic pregnancy. Anyone disagree?
What about Tay Sachs? I read the child can live up to 5 years. It said nothing about pain. I don't know much about it.

reply from: carolemarie

Your complaint is invalid and in your head. It has no bearing in reality. I want to see legislation passed that makes peforming an abortion against the law. Go after the money and the providers and end abortion. I think that is the way to go
I don't believe in abortion, but I can live with rape, incest and life of the mother exceptions to outlaw the others.
I will always support a womans right to defend her own life and I think rape and incest are special circumstances that are best dealt with by counseling for the whole family. Not by fiat.

reply from: SRUW4I5

Both of those quotes are from: http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/genetic/tay_sachs.html

I don't know much about it, so I'm not sure whether or not a woman should be allowed to abort for that reason.

reply from: Banned Member

I want to see legislation passed that makes seeking or performing an abortion against the law.
Exceptions for the life of the mother gave us abortion througout all nine months of pregnancy, including partial-birth abortion. Early delivery to the extent that it is required as needed if the mothers life is in imminent danger and given that it is performed by a medical doctor and not an abortionist; would be permissable.
Rape and incest, horrible, tragic! Abortion is worse I fear. Abortion does not mean that these things didn't happen and ironically, abortion often kills the only witness who can and would to testify to these crimes.

reply from: carolemarie

I want to see legislation passed that makes seeking or performing an abortion against the law.
Exceptions for the life of the mother gave us abortion througout all nine months of pregnancy, including partial-birth abortion. Early delivery to the extent that it is required as needed if the mothers life is in imminent danger and given that it is performed by a medical doctor and not an abortionist; would be permissable.
Rape and incest, horrible, tragic! Abortion is worse I fear. Abortion does not mean that these things didn't happen and ironically, abortion often kills the only witness who can and would to testify to these crimes.
Augustine:
first, in the case of rape, incest, they take a DNA sample from the baby, with that they can convict the person who raped the girl (if they are ever caught),
Are you seriously arguing that women should have to die so the baby can live? For your information, the life of the mother was legal before abortion ever was. In the rare situtation that the mother would die, it was her choice. Always has been and should always be there. If life is important, so is the moms.

reply from: Banned Member

I want to see legislation passed that makes seeking or performing an abortion against the law.
Exceptions for the life of the mother gave us abortion throughout all nine months of pregnancy, including partial-birth abortion. Early delivery to the extent that it is required as needed if the mothers life is in imminent danger and given that it is performed by a medical doctor and not an abortionist; would be permissable.
Rape and incest, horrible, tragic! Abortion is worse I fear. Abortion does not mean that these things didn't happen and ironically, abortion often kills the only witness who can and would to testify to these crimes.

reply from: ChristianLott2

learn how to quote, huh?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Sounds like a good idea. Seeking an abortion is attempted murder.

reply from: Banned Member

Exceptions for the life of the mother have come to include virtually anything at all; any reason, any excuse, any whim.
Abortionists who make their living performing abortions are usually willing to accept any reason the mother chooses as a valid reason for an abortion.
That is not what I said. Imminent danger means; medically needed delivery, (not an abortion) with concern for the care and lives of both mother and child; never abortion recommended as a precaution! A pregnancy that might pose a risk, is not a risk, but only a potential risk!

reply from: carolemarie

you do realize that a preemie can have serious medical problems, and may be handicaped or die early because of those things.

reply from: carolemarie

Common Health Problems of Preemies
Premature infants are prone to a number of problems, mostly because their internal organs aren't completely ready to function on their own. In general, the more premature the infant, the higher the risk of complications.
Hyperbilirubinemia
A common treatable condition of premature babies is hyperbilirubinemia, which affects 80% of premature infants. Infants with hyperbilirubinemia have high levels of bilirubin, a compound that results from the natural breakdown of blood. This high level of bilirubin causes them to develop jaundice, a yellow discoloration of the skin and whites of the eyes. Although mild jaundice is fairly common in full-term babies (about 60%), it's much more common in premature babies. Extremely high levels of bilirubin can cause brain damage, so premature infants are monitored for jaundice and treated quickly, before bilirubin reaches dangerous levels. Jaundiced infants are placed under special lights that help the body eliminate bilirubin. Rarely, blood exchange transfusions are used to treat severe jaundice.
Apnea
Apnea is another common health problem among premature babies. During an apnea spell, a baby stops breathing, the heart rate may decrease, and the skin may turn pale, purplish, or blue. Apnea is usually caused by immaturity in the area of the brain that controls the drive to breathe. Almost all babies born at 30 weeks or less will experience apnea. Apnea spells become less frequent with age.
In the NICU, all premature babies are monitored for apnea spells. Treating apnea can be as simple as gently stimulating the infant to restart breathing. However, when apnea occurs frequently, the infant may require medication (most commonly caffeine or theophylline) and/or a special nasal device that blows a steady stream of air into the airways to keep them open.
Anemia
Many premature infants lack the number of red blood cells necessary to carry adequate oxygen to the body. This complication, called anemia, is easily diagnosed using laboratory tests. These tests can determine the severity of the anemia and the number of new red blood cells being produced.
Premature infants may develop anemia for a number of reasons. In the first few weeks of life, infants don't make many new red blood cells. Also, an infant's red blood cells have a shorter life than an adult's. And the frequent blood samples that must be taken for laboratory testing make it difficult for red blood cells to replenish. Some premature infants, especially those who weigh less than 1,000 grams, require red blood cell transfusions.
Low Blood Pressure
Low blood pressure is a relatively common complication that may occur shortly after birth. It can be due to infection, blood loss, fluid loss, or medications given to the mother before delivery. Low blood pressure is treated by increasing fluid intake or prescribing medications. Infants who have low blood pressure due to blood loss may need a blood transfusion.
Respiratory Distress Syndrome
One of the most common and immediate problems facing premature infants is difficulty breathing. Although there are many causes of breathing difficulties in premature infants, the most common is called respiratory distress syndrome (RDS). In RDS, the infant's immature lungs don't produce enough of an important substance called surfactant. Surfactant allows the inner surface of the lungs to expand properly when the infant makes the change from the womb to breathing air after birth. Fortunately, RDS is treatable and many infants do quite well. When premature delivery can't be stopped, most pregnant women can be given medication just before delivery to hasten the production of surfactant in the infant's lungs and help prevent RDS. Then, immediately after birth and several times later, artificial surfactant can be given to the infant if needed. Although most premature babies who lack surfactant will require a breathing machine, or ventilator, for a while, the use of artificial surfactant has greatly decreased the amount of time that infants spend on the ventilator.
Bronchopulmonary Dysplasia
Bronchopulmonary dysplasia (BPD) is a common lung problem among premature infants, especially those less than 1,000 grams (2.2 pounds) at birth. The exact mechanism for this disease is still unclear, but extreme prematurity, severe RDS, infections before and after birth, and the prolonged use of oxygen and/or a ventilator needed to treat a lung disease all play a major role in the development of BPD. Preemies are often treated with medication and oxygen for this condition.
Infection
Infection is a big threat to premature infants because they're less able than full-term infants to fight germs that can cause serious illness. Infections can come from the mother before birth, during the process of birth, or after birth. Practically any body part can become infected. Reducing the risk of infection is why frequent hand washing is necessary in the NICU. Bacterial infections can be treated with antibiotics. Other medications are prescribed to treat viral and fungal infections.
Patent Ductus Arteriosus
The ductus arteriosus is a short blood vessel that connects the main blood vessel supplying the lungs to the aorta, the main blood vessel that leaves the heart. Its function in the unborn baby is to allow blood to bypass the lungs, because oxygen for the blood comes from the mother and not from breathing air. In full-term babies, the ductus arteriosus closes shortly after birth, but it frequently stays open in premature babies. When this happens, excess blood flows into the lungs and can cause breathing difficulties and sometimes heart failure. Patent ductus arteriosus (PDA) is often treated with a medication called indomethacin or ibuprofen, which is successful in closing the ductus arteriosus in more than 80% of infants requiring these medications. However, if medical therapy fails, then surgery may be required to close the ductus.
Retinopathy of Prematurity
The eyes of premature infants are especially vulnerable to injury after birth. A serious complication is called retinopathy of prematurity (ROP), which is abnormal growth of the blood vessels in an infant's eye. About 7% of babies weighing 1,250 grams (2.75 pounds) or less at birth develop ROP, and the resulting damage may range from mild (the need for glasses) to severe (blindness). The cause of ROP in premature infants is unknown. Although it was previously thought that too much oxygen was the primary problem, further research has shown that oxygen levels (either too low or too high) play only a contributing factor in the development of ROP. Premature babies receive eye exams in the NICU to check for ROP.

reply from: Banned Member

A preemie an also have virtually few or no medical problems. A normal pregnancy can also have unexpected health problems. I would not have abortion used as a means of weeding out potentially problematic health concerns among unborn children or so-called "problem" pregnancies.

reply from: carolemarie

Preemies are more likely to die in the first year of life.
CHICAGO - The largest-ever study of the long-term consequences of premature birth finds that children born early have higher death rates in childhood and are more likely to be childless in adulthood.
The medical cost associated with a preemie is around 75,000 and that is with insurance. There are also ongoing medical problems.
premature deliveries are not the answer to mom's life in the balance.

reply from: Banned Member

I had a friend of mine and his wife were told that there unborn child did not have the proper amniotic fluid surrounding their son and indeed he did not any. They were told that he would have severe developmental problems and physical problems. The doctor informed them that they should consider abortion. They told him they would consider another doctor. They found another doctor who did all that he could, they prayed, and they have the brightest most active 5 year old that you can imagine. He talks constantly, is curious and phycially larger and stronger than kids his age. He is a great kid. I am not a gambler. I don't play odds, especially not where human lives are concerned.

reply from: carolemarie

no, it is just that it needs to be a case by case basis, not some decree from someone who has no stake in the issue. If a baby is too young, to under developed, and the mother will die, it may just have to be aborted to save the mother. There is no point in making the baby suffer and die to make you happy an abortion wasn't performed.
If the baby can be delivered early without serious complications, then that is a different matter. But all of this depends on the judgment of the Dr.

reply from: Banned Member

How much suffering is too much suffering? Are you willing to make that particular decree? Will the state decide how much suffering is too much? the mother? an abortionist? a doctor whose vocation is to save lives?
My decree only states that every person deserves life. Your decree would state that some do not. Once you get back to personal choices and privacy, you are right back to Roe v Wade 1973 all over again; legalized elective abortion on demand, for whatever reason for whoever chooses. The babies die... again!

reply from: carolemarie

How much suffering is too much suffering? Are you willing to make that particular decree? Will the state decide how much suffering is too much? the mother? an abortionist? a doctor whose vocation is to save lives?
My decree only states that every person deserves life. Your decree would state that some do not. Once you get back to personal choices and privacy, you are right back to Roe v Wade 1973 all over again; legalized elective abortion on demand, for whatever reason for whoever chooses. The babies die... again!
No, we know when a fetus is viable and the probably outcome of being born to early. So the mom's dr can make that decision with the families imput.
It was legal before Roe for the life of the mother.
And I would point out that women in this situtation want their baby to live, so if it is possible to let the child live, they would opt for it. But if the letting the child live and suffer and die what would the point be? That is why those who are involved get to make these RARE decisions.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yeah. Stop wasting our money and murder the little brat!


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