Home - List All Discussions

"KILLER OF THREE"

What are your thoughts about this "title"?

by: socratease

Please select an answer the best expresses your feelings, and/or post your comments in this thread.

reply from: BossMomma

I think the poll speaks for it'self.

reply from: socratease

I don't know anything about that one, but you could do your own poll about it.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, the poll is speaking pretty clearly....

reply from: lycan

I question how "pro-life" such a person really is. I've PM'd concerns about this to both Liberal and GodsLaw4Us2Live.

reply from: faithman

Only 64% ? I must be slipping. What's the big whoop about "killer of three and the like"? That is an accurate discription, taken from said person's own words. Maybe "fetus killer" would suit everyone better? Take a poll on that and see where it gets ya.

reply from: socratease

Looks like there is some voter fraud in this poll, or that there are more ***holes on this site than there appeared to be.

reply from: yoda

So, when are you going to demand that the "board owner take action against such abusiveness"?

reply from: TheRebelWithin

i am confused by this statement, which voter choice is upsetting you?

reply from: yoda

Goodness, I don't think that Socrates would've talked that way....

reply from: ChristianLott2

I might have been bothered by it if she turned a leaf and became truly pro life but.. that never happened. She hasn't changed a bit, though she'd love for others to think so.

reply from: socratease

i am confused by this statement, which voter choice is upsetting you?
Unless they should identify themselves, I doubt there are five posters who are ok with another poster being continually called a "killer."
I think I will err on the side of having some faith in humanity and figure someone is playing games with multiple accounts.

reply from: yoda

Why don't you demand that the forum owner do something about it?

reply from: socratease

I don't intend to make such a demand.
I just hope he notices, and that he might consider that if the purpose of this board is to advance the prolife cause, that it is counterproductive to allow a prolifer to be beaten down so maliciously.

reply from: yoda

Don't you think that is HIS decision to make, not yours?
Please, by all means go crying to the owner of the board, and let me know what he says, okay?

reply from: faithman

They can get his email address by clicking "contack" on the home page of this site. I am sure he could use a good laugh.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, I know. For all their preening and posturing, they have no backbone. They are even afraid to contact the forum "owner".

reply from: socratease

He can read this thread and decide whether he approves of abusiveness on his forum.
If he doesn't mind bullying and degradation, then that's his business.
I just thought I would shed a little light on something that maybe he hadn't noticed.
I don't know who he is or what he does. Maybe he's as sadistic as this faithman fellow and enjoys his posts.
Do you think that's the case?

reply from: faithman

They are just punk mouthed little smart a$$e$ that would rather mence words than save babies. Their smuggness would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that it is just an attempt to divert attention away from the slaughter. I could care less what a fetus killer has to say. Particularly fetus killers who pretend to be pro-life.

reply from: 4given

Clearly you do not. Please share what you have done as far as pro-life efforts.
Anyone thinking of Faramir?

reply from: socratease

I just want to enter the discussion.
Is there some level of activism required to post here?
But regarding your statement, if abortion is an injustice, and I believe it is, then any work to stop it is not in vain.
Even if nothing was accomplished on the legal front, who knows what the prolife movement might have accomplished by way of making some people think twice about it, and possibly not aborting?

reply from: SRUW4I5

I know for a fact that there has been atleast two women who chose not to abort because of Pro-Lifers. There are probably others that have changed their mind because of Pro-Lifers.
I don't think calling people killers and murderers helps anything though.

reply from: carolemarie

Of course people change their minds! That is why we do it.
You can make a big impact by simply going to the clinic and offer help, and talk to the women. Lots of them change their minds. We saw about 60 or so a year. Which is less than 2% of all who came to the clinic in that time period, but still 60 babies is a lot. And all we did was offer help and be kind.
Doing the prolife thing is a positive thing, and a hopeful thing, and God does all these miracles that quietly scream I am here with you! it is kind of strange that the most horrible place in the world can also be the most joyful....

reply from: 4given

Right.. and no level of anything is required. I am simply curious. Would you like to become active (if not already) in the pro-life movement?

reply from: faithman

I know for a fact that there has been atleast two women who chose not to abort because of Pro-Lifers. There are probably others that have changed their mind because of Pro-Lifers.
I don't think calling people killers and murderers helps anything though.
But I have seen it, that is why I do it. But of course some fetus killers just cling to their excusses. Just part of the gig.

reply from: socratease

Judging by your posts, you are probably the humble sort who would give God all the credit, but if you were to personally take some credit, how many babies have you saved?

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

If it can be established that someone is a killer of the enviroment, the title would fit.

reply from: SRUW4I5

I know for a fact that there has been atleast two women who chose not to abort because of Pro-Lifers. There are probably others that have changed their mind because of Pro-Lifers.
I don't think calling people killers and murderers helps anything though.
But I have seen it, that is why I do it. But of course some fetus killers just cling to their excusses. Just part of the gig.
Okay, everyone has their reasons.
If someone had called me a murderer or killer for the abortions I had, I probably wouldn't have listened to them much longer... I know nowhere near everyone is like that though.

reply from: SRUW4I5

That doesn't mean it is nice, useful, or worth it to call them a killer of the enviroment, though. Why not use your time to try to get them to stop instead? I think it is more worthwhile to try and help someone than to label them or call them things.

reply from: carolemarie

I would never in a million years call anyone names! I know that even Fman wouldn't do that. He isn't stupid and doesn't want to drive them in the clinic...
And it is God who changes the hearts, I can only offer to help you with what you need. Any sidewalk counselor will tell you that it is God who soften their hearts. I just hang around and look cute and let God do the hard work.
i have had the privlege of helping lots of women in the last 13 years....some have named babies after me which is sweet. Like I said, about on the average 60 a year. We work with the local CPC, so we can help the women better and i do the post abortion follow up at the clinic because we serve a forgiving God who want to help them no matter what choices they make. He (God) is into saving both of them.
Showing up is half the fight.

reply from: socratease

You have helped save hundreds of babies!
Yet some want to only look at the mistakes of your past that you seem to sincerely regret.
That's really stupid.
Why would they want to discourage someone who SAVES BABIES FROM ABORTION?
That's what being prolife is all about.

reply from: SRUW4I5

You have helped save hundreds of babies!
Yet some want to only look at the mistakes of your past that you seem to sincerely regret.
That's really stupid.
Why would they want to discourage someone who SAVES BABIES FROM ABORTION?
That's what being prolife is all about.
Because they're critics or because she did something in her past that goes against what Pro-Lifers believe (that abortion shouldn't happen) maybe? As much as I don't support it, that would seem to be a reason for doing that.

reply from: faithman

You have helped save hundreds of babies!
Yet some want to only look at the mistakes of your past that you seem to sincerely regret.
That's really stupid.
Why would they want to discourage someone who SAVES BABIES FROM ABORTION?
That's what being prolife is all about.
Don't pretend that you know what is going on here. This fetus killer has point blank posted on this forum that she has no regrets, and would fight personhood for the womb child. It has constantly used pro-death rhetoric in it's posts. No one is calling into question it's supposed pro-life works, only the anti womb child sentament constantly posted on this forum.

reply from: socratease

I disagree with her theology, and I might disagree with her some of her prolife ideas.
But that doesn't change the fact that she is someone who is saving babies, and that is being prolife.
And I don't see why if I disagree with some positions why that would qualify me to call her a "killer."
I have not seen any posts where she says she does not regret her abortions.

reply from: faithman

That is because you may be very new here, and haven't seen all that has been posted by the fetus killer. Just because you lack "qualifications" does it mean others suffer from the same void in discernment.

reply from: SRUW4I5

Pro-Choicers do a lot of work to help get women to choose not to abort a fetus, too. That alone does not make a person Pro-Life.
What makes someone Pro-Life (if you go by definitions) would be wanting abortion to be illegal (even if there is a couple of exceptions) or thinking abortion is wrong/the killing of a fetus.
If the person thinks abortion is the killing of a fetus, they would think that anyone that has/had an abortion if a fetus killer. So, they would think calling the person a fetus killer would be telling the truth.

reply from: socratease

Pro-Choicers do a lot of work to help get women to choose not to abort a fetus, too. That alone does not make a person Pro-Life.
What makes someone Pro-Life (if you go by definitions) would be wanting abortion to be illegal (even if there is a couple of exceptions) or thinking abortion is wrong/the killing of a fetus.
If the person thinks abortion is the killing of a fetus, they would think that anyone that has/had an abortion if a fetus killer. So, they would think calling the person a fetus killer would be telling the truth.
Do prochoicers demonstrate at abortion clinics?
And I think that abortion is the killing of a fetus, but I would not call someone who had an abortion a "fetus killer."
I expecially would not call someone that who believes now that it was wrong, and who regrets it.
And if someone no longer does something, the lable no longer applies.
"KillER" implies someone who presently kills or who would kill if not incarcerated.
It seems to me that some are too eager to use words like "murder" not for the sake of the unborn but so that they can feel superior.

reply from: Banned Member

The owner of this board won't do anything about because he is very much like faithboy himself. I mean he may not be as vile & despicable as fboy, & he is certainly smarter & a better speller & better at grammar all together, but he's still a self righteous, arrogant SOB. Their basic motto seems to be that you either agree with them about everything in total, or your going to roast in the fiery pits of hell.

reply from: faithman

Very well said. Ready for that hot place are you?

reply from: Banned Member

Very well said. Ready for that hot place are you?
Sure am sugar.
It does make me feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that if your religion is correct you'll be burning right there with me. I love how you hypocrites practice selective reading when it comes to your own holy book.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

My personal preference would be that the term child killer of three not be used. But I'm not faithman and I haven't carefully analyzed all of carolmarie's statements so I am not going to say that faithman should quit using that term.
I don't know if carolmarie is truly repentant, in which case, let's forget the past. But if carolmarie has never really admitted to herself that she did something bad, maybe she still needs to confess. When she started saying committing abortion is not like killing a born child I disagree totally. She seems to really downplay the seriousness of abortion. I see why faithman piles on with responses like that from carolmarie.
It is also true that bringing up extreme past events such as death can be unbearably painful and bring people to extreme despair. It is good to heal and get back to normality, but at the same time, that should only be with an admission as to how inappropriate the past acts were; so a person eschews such things in the future.
JRH makes fun of people who are old maids or who enjoy unusual behaviors. He brings those things up because he knows it is a painful taunt to these people. Painful taunts made to cause unhappiness because you hate the person is a childish technique that adults sometimes use. I would prefer not to see taunts used just to cause pain. But to change another's behavior by taunting a fault that can be corrected, maybe that is appropriate.

reply from: socratease

I haven't carefully analyzed her statements either, but I haven't seen any reason for her to be called that. She has admitted to abortions and regrets them. She is now in the business of saving babies, so she's no longer a killer. Any disagreement I would have about such a person doesn't give me the right to throw her past in her face ten times a day. That would just be a sick ego trip on my part, and I would be deluded to think I am helping babies by being so abusive.
That's between her and God.
I think someone who has saved hundreds of babies and who denounces abortion has demonstrated much "eschewing," not that anyone has the right to bully that person, regardless.
Taunting is cruel and wrong. If a person is not mature enough to stop on his own, then that's why boards are moderated--to control nonsense like that. That's why I'm hoping the owner of the board will take notice of the poll and hopefully consider making some changes.
If he doesn't mind this type of behaviour, then I think that's sad.
There seem to be some here who have a bigger problem with discussing the issue than with the constant degradation, so no doubt there is support for it, which is also sad, coming from people who claim to be prolife.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

That doesn't mean it is nice, useful, or worth it to call them a killer of the enviroment, though. Why not use your time to try to get them to stop instead? I think it is more worthwhile to try and help someone than to label them or call them things.
If a man rapes someone, he is a rapist. Calling him a rapist to his face might not be nice or charitable, but it's accurate.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

What I'd like to know is: who else the pro-aborts would kill if given the chance to? I mean, If the law of the land said assassination was a form of free speech, would they kill pro-life political leaders? Where do they draw the line, if at all?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Just like the *choicer* carolemarie.
She claims to be pro life with about a half dozen other posters on this forum but they lie. They're not really anti abortion. They are people who want to lobby for adult women above anything else.

reply from: scopia19822

"Just like the *choicer* carolemarie.
She claims to be pro life with about a half dozen other posters on this forum but they lie. They're not really anti abortion. They are people who want to lobby for adult women above anything else."
Am I included in this category as well? I believe that alot of women who choose to abort do so because they feel backed into a corner and it is their only choice. In order to care for the unborn children we have to take care of the woman that are carrying them and we have to care what happens to them after the cord is cut. I want to see abortion illegal like you do I just think their is a more pragmatic way to go about it. Set up safety nets to help women during their pregnacies and help enable them to care for their child afterward, a step down program would be a good way to do it enabling the women to become more self sufficent and by the time the child reached kindergarten she should be working a job that pays enough so she can support the child on her own or she shoud have finished college or a job training program and now be ready to enter the workforce.

reply from: socratease

Just like the *choicer* carolemarie.
She claims to be pro life with about a half dozen other posters on this forum but they lie. They're not really anti abortion. They are people who want to lobby for adult women above anything else.
Huh?
She's prolife. She opposes abortion.
What are you talking about--"lobbying for women"?

reply from: BossMomma

Just like the *choicer* carolemarie.
She claims to be pro life with about a half dozen other posters on this forum but they lie. They're not really anti abortion. They are people who want to lobby for adult women above anything else.
Huh?
She's prolife. She opposes abortion.
What are you talking about--"lobbying for women"?
CL2 thinks that pro-life means love the fetus hate the woman.

reply from: socratease

It's strange that he would call someone who has probably saved more babies from abortion than all the other prolife members of this forum combined, a "choicer."

reply from: nancyu

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: socratease

I think I've seen this before.
Like maybe ten times.
What a weird forum...

reply from: yoda

Or, because that is actually Faramir returning under a new nick....

reply from: yoda

It also implies someone who has killed in the past. Ask Jerry Lee Lewis.
Here's what you remind me of, Faramir:
philosopher Francis Beckwith observed: "this is a man who won't even force his beliefs on himself.".

reply from: yoda

Why are you hanging around here if that's how you feel?

reply from: yoda

No, Faramir, he's not going to pay any attention to you this time either.

reply from: nancyu

I think I've seen this before.
Like maybe ten times.
What a weird forum...
Have you seen this one, too?
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Huh?
She's prolife. She opposes abortion.
What are you talking about--"lobbying for women"?
Just like boss, she buckles at every turn. She does not support personhood staus for the preborn. If you're following the 11 yr old rape thread, carole and boos have made it abundantly clear an 11 year old is not mature enough to have sex but mature enough to decide to get an abortion.
As for lobbying for women - they blame society and especially men for all their problems and go to great lengths to rationalize any and all reasons for abortion. Just stick around and read. They flip flop and they LIE. They'll tell you they oppose abortion one week then be defending it for a new 'special case' the next.
It's sick. I know fm is a bit over the top sometimes but he's been around here for a long time and I've taken the time to read and reread what she says. It's not pro life at all really.

reply from: nancyu

It would be more grammatically correct for you to say "Who are 'we'?" And that is exactly what we would like to know. Who are you, and why are you here?

reply from: socratease

Huh?
She's prolife. She opposes abortion.
What are you talking about--"lobbying for women"?
Just like boss, she buckles at every turn. She does not support personhood staus for the preborn. If you're following the 11 yr old rape thread, carole and boos have made it abundantly clear an 11 year old is not mature enough to have sex but mature enough to decide to get an abortion.
As for lobbying for women - they blame society and especially men for all their problems and go to great lengths to rationalize any and all reasons for abortion. Just stick around and read. They flip flop and they LIE. They'll tell you they oppose abortion one week then be defending it for a new 'special case' the next.
It's sick. I know fm is a bit over the top sometimes but he's been around here for a long time and I've taken the time to read and reread what she says. It's not pro life at all really.
I haven't read that thread, yet.
But as a prolifer, I don't see how we can make exeptions for rape or incest.
However, there might be times when a compromise is a lot better than nothing, and so far all we have is nothing.

reply from: socratease

The way I feel about it was expressed in this post by galen:
I believe that to be 100% prolife one needs to oppose all abortion.
However, do you think those who oppose abortion but might make allowances for "hard cases" are welcome in the prochoice camp? Do you think prochoicers see someone who want 99% of abortions to be illegal as a friend or a foe?
I strongly disagree that a rape victim should abort and that it would be better for her to do so under any circumstance, but that does not mean that someone I disagree with is a killer.

reply from: Skippy

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I consider "pro-life with exceptions" to be pro-choice. Pro-choice with heavy restrictions, obviously, but pro-choice nonetheless.
Then again, I also believe it is possible to be pro-life and not want abortion to be illegal. So far as I'm concerned, you are what you call yourself. The dictionary might not agree, and the lunatic fringe might not agree. But in the end, terminology is nothing compared to actual deeds.

reply from: carolemarie

Your not helping me here Skippy!

reply from: carolemarie

I believe that to be 100% prolife one needs to oppose all abortion.
However, do you think those who oppose abortion but might make allowances for "hard cases" are welcome in the prochoice camp? Do you think prochoicers see someone who want 99% of abortions to be illegal as a friend or a foe?
I strongly disagree that a rape victim should abort and that it would be better for her to do so under any circumstance, but that does not mean that someone I disagree with is a killer.
a

reply from: micah

Okay, but then by that terminology just about everyone is pro-choice then. Most of the so-called pro-lifers would allow for abortion in cases where the mother's life is at stake.

reply from: socratease

Most of the politicians we call prolife make these exceptions.
I don't agree with these exceptions at all, but I still would say they are much more prolife than they are prochoice, and most of the members of this board would say they are prolife.
But if you post here and make exceptions, you are a dirty, blood thirsty, murdering scanc, apparently.

reply from: ChristianLott2

you got that right.
100% pro life - no excuses, no exceptions. Are none of you familiar with Mark Crutcher or Life Dynamics?
Obviously not.

reply from: Skippy

Oh, I am too. I am acknowledging that you are pro-life, because pro-life is not this tiny little space where only people who oppose all abortions and want dire legal consequences live.
That I consider you pro-choice with heavy restrictions matters not at all. As I said, you are what you call yourself. I believe yours is a principled and compassionate stance, and I respect it.

reply from: socratease

you got that right.
100% pro life - no excuses, no exceptions. Are none of you familiar with Mark Crutcher or Life Dynamics?
Obviously not.
Does he call repentant post abortive women "killers" too?
Or does he just look the other way when others do?
Or does he not have a clue about the abusiveness that is going on here?

reply from: carolemarie

I can't imagine Mark calling women who had abortions names.

reply from: socratease

Then maybe he just does not know that there are nasty people here who are rotten represntatives of the prolife side?
Does he know that by not moderating this forum, that many of the bottom-of-the-barrel type gravitate here and make prolifers look like imbecils?

reply from: faithman

Then maybe he just does not know that there are nasty people here who are rotten represntatives of the prolife side?
Does he know that by not moderating this forum, that many of the bottom-of-the-barrel type gravitate here and make prolifers look like imbecils?
Then take your rotten bottom of the barrel self out of here, and we will be better off for it!!! Tuck a few fetus killers, and false pro-lifers under each arm on your way out if you want to do us a fav. But you will never get the scanc stink out of your clothes....

reply from: Banned Member

Why are you hanging around here if that's how you feel?
Their are people on this site I respect. But I don't respect Mark or you or any of the other extremist hypocrites.
Honestly I come here mostly to entertain myself by reading the crap that certain people spew all aver the place. It also reminds me of why I am not a Christian. To see all the hatred that comes from the Christians on this board every day serves as a great reminder.

reply from: faithman

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I consider "pro-life with exceptions" to be pro-choice. Pro-choice with heavy restrictions, obviously, but pro-choice nonetheless.
Then again, I also believe it is possible to be pro-life and not want abortion to be illegal. So far as I'm concerned, you are what you call yourself. The dictionary might not agree, and the lunatic fringe might not agree. But in the end, terminology is nothing compared to actual deeds.
SSSSOOOOO if you actually do the deed of killing fetus', then that makes you a fetus killer, correct? Isn't there a time when terminology, and actual deeds match perfectly? Deed: build a house; terminology: carpenter. Deed: fix a leaky sink; terminology: plumber. Deed: kill 3 "fetus' " to beat it back to the street corner; terminology: fetus killing scanc.

reply from: socratease

Why are you hanging around here if that's how you feel?
Their are people on this site I respect. But I don't respect Mark or you or any of the other extremist hypocrites.
Honestly I come here mostly to entertain myself by reading the crap that certain people spew all aver the place. It also reminds me of why I am not a Christian. To see all the hatred that comes from the Christians on this board every day serves as a great reminder.
I've heard good things about the owner of this board, so it perplexes me that he seems to have no problems with what goes on here.
But most Christians are good people and are not haters. The haters here have the loudest voices, but I have seen some very good, humble, and loving Christians on this forum.
Unfortunately the haters and the nutters rule at the moment, but it is kind of entertaining, I agree.

reply from: faithman

Why are you hanging around here if that's how you feel?
Their are people on this site I respect. But I don't respect Mark or you or any of the other extremist hypocrites.
Honestly I come here mostly to entertain myself by reading the crap that certain people spew all aver the place. It also reminds me of why I am not a Christian. To see all the hatred that comes from the Christians on this board every day serves as a great reminder.
Thats good. We didn't want you anyway.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Carolmarie is a wicked pro-choice killer of three. This is based on her post today in which she said allowing a young pregnant person to kill her baby may be the best thing. You have to think of the mom too! - she says.
Killing a baby is bad for both mom and baby. Teach kids that killing is okay? Teach them that killing their baby is acceptable and the best thing? Carolmarie is mad. She is evil.

reply from: socratease

So I take it you are among the six who selected the first option in the poll?
Since somone's past in your mind seems to be something that follows them all their life, can we say that you are a wicked fornicator?

reply from: carolemarie

I think we are allowed to have compassion for a child who has been raped. Especally a very young child.
I can't imagine a little girl being forced to have a baby. Her life counts to.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

So I take it you are among the six who selected the first option in the poll?
Since somone's past in your mind seems to be something that follows them all their life, can we say that you are a wicked fornicator?
I added to my post above. I explained that my decision was based on her comments today that abortion is better than caring for a baby in some circumstances. In the poll I said I was neutral. Now I say faithman was CORRECT.
If anyone should be disciplined it should be carolmarie for recommending abortion as a way to help the woman. Abortion hurts both mother and child.

reply from: faithman

....thats what I have been trying to tell you... But then you must have pity on the poor little dear. She has had SSSSOOOOO much bad info crammed into her head , and is SSSSOOOO self deluded, that she is on sick little choice wolf in sheeps wool. But of course that kind of pity should never deminish the goal of personhood for the womb child.

reply from: faithman

So I take it you are among the six who selected the first option in the poll?
Since somone's past in your mind seems to be something that follows them all their life, can we say that you are a wicked fornicator?
I added to my post above. I explained that my decision was based on her comments today that abortion is better than caring for a baby in some circumstances. In the poll I said I was neutral. Now I say faithman was CORRECT.
If anyone should be disciplined it should be carolmarie for recommending abortion as a way to help the woman. Abortion hurts both mother and child.
HARK!!! Another "convert"!!! May the eye scales continue to fall!!!!!!!

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

What the sh*t! You are going to counsel an eleven year old girl to enter the death chamber, the chamber of horrors, and kill her own little baby! That is not compassionate to the eleven year old - it's extremely damaging to the child's well-being. We are responsible to not mislead the young and naive - such as an eleven year old. May God condemn to death the one who misleads a little child. It would be better for him to have a millstone tied around his neck and be thrown into the depths of the sea. You, carolmarie, are a very evil pro-choicer who leads women down the path to death.

reply from: faithman

What the sh*t! You are going to counsel an eleven year old girl to enter the death chamber, the chamber of horrors, and kill her own little baby! That is not compassionate to the eleven year old - it's extremely damaging to the child's well-being. We are responsible to not mislead the young and naive - such as an eleven year old. May God condemn to death the one who misleads a little child. It would be better for him to have a millstone tied around his neck and be thrown into the depths of the sea. You, carolmarie, are a very evil pro-choicer who leads woman down the path to death.
Slow down a little there fella!!!! You are going to take my place as the number one hater!!!! [great post by the by...and accurate as well...]

reply from: socratease

So I take it you are among the six who selected the first option in the poll?
Since somone's past in your mind seems to be something that follows them all their life, can we say that you are a wicked fornicator?
I added to my post above. I explained that my decision was based on her comments today that abortion is better than caring for a baby in some circumstances. In the poll I said I was neutral. Now I say faithman was CORRECT.
If anyone should be disciplined it should be carolmarie for recommending abortion as a way to help the woman. Abortion hurts both mother and child.
I agree with you 100% that there should be no exceptions for abortion. But I don't agree that if someone is willing to make a rare exception that that person is evil. They are wrong, but not necessarily evil.
I think Galen made a post that best sums up the situation, and I think an abortion could be a second violation, and do much more harm than having the baby.
But, in such a hard situation, the abortion decision would be understandable, especially if they were convinced that the pregancy would kill the mother.
This thread is about the abusiveness of name calling.
I think she's wrong in her opinion about those exceptions, but she is in agreement with you and me about 99% or more of abortions, and she has stated that she regrets her abortions. She is not excusing them as "exceptions" but stated that they were wrong, and she has been making efforts and has succeed in persuading many others to not make the same mistake.
So, her past should have nothing to do with anything, and should not be an issue at all, just like your previous errors of fornication should not be an issue.

reply from: carolemarie

Well, if I am prochoice, why am I trying to talk women out of having abortions? Why am I spending my time and money to help them choose life? If I thought abortion was okay, why would I regret having them?
You are idiots.

reply from: socratease

Have you been adopting all those babies you save?
Maybe you are raising an army of killers.
I think the tin-foil hat posters here are right about you!
I better hide...

reply from: 4given

Pro-life personal. I don't know.. Not my conversation anyway.
Yeah. I am sure that I am. Hey, I have a standard, one that I know would be impossible to impose on any other lifer. It doesn't mean that I don't respect what you have done or continue to do. It is not, and should not be a personal issue. What you do at the clinics, as a pro-lifer, I am thankful for. My only concern is with the justification segments of your pro-life postings here. It may confuse some.

reply from: carolemarie

I am tired of this thread.
You can say what you want, but at least I live what I believe. Do you?

reply from: 4given

Fabulous idea.. Or fly.. Or try to post on the topics at hand as opposed to your idea of what the board should be about. Being this is your thread, you can hide with hat in hand. It is troublesome that you want to divert away from abortion to focus on personal matters.

reply from: 4given

Me?
I can only assume that you are addressing me, given the hour and the posts. Yes. I live what I believe. What are you speaking of exactly?

reply from: socratease

Fabulous idea.. Or fly.. Or try to post on the topics at hand as opposed to your idea of what the board should be about. Being this is your thread, you can hide with hat in hand. It is troublesome that you want to divert away from abortion to focus on personal matters.
I'm not trying to say what the board should be about.
I'm just saying that degrading posts should not be allowed, and those types of posts are personal and do nothing to serve babies. They serve egos and not babies, so why not harrass those posters too?

reply from: socratease

So I take it you are among the six who selected the first option in the poll?
Since somone's past in your mind seems to be something that follows them all their life, can we say that you are a wicked fornicator?
I added to my post above. I explained that my decision was based on her comments today that abortion is better than caring for a baby in some circumstances. In the poll I said I was neutral. Now I say faithman was CORRECT.
If anyone should be disciplined it should be carolmarie for recommending abortion as a way to help the woman. Abortion hurts both mother and child.
If a raped 11 year old had an abortion, would you call her a killer?

reply from: 4given

I am sorry if you feel I am harrassing you. I assure you I am not. I speak to those I disagree with privately. I suggest you do the same.

reply from: socratease

I am sorry if you feel I am harrassing you. I speak to those I disagree with privately.
Then why do I have the privilege of your public condemnation? You could tell me off in private too.
At any rate, I will confine comments about this subject to this thread only. I think this is important and very much a part of the topic of abortion, and I don't bring it up to cause trouble for no good reason.
But I will stay on topic in other threads, and bite my lip when I see "scanc" and "killer" and the like.
But really--what would be so bad about a moderated board? Do you think this type of "free for all" is a good format?
I am voluntarily going to restrict myself to this thread, but I really don't have to, and could do a lot of mischief, since this is unmoderated, but I'm not going to. But there are others who do not have that kind of restraint or good manners, and they will say the most vile things, and nobody does a thing about it.
Not a good way to show what prolifers are all about, IMHO.

reply from: 4given

You haven't established yourself here, and especially as anyone that has any cause other than to personally recondition and chastise posters, their habits and ideas to suit your own.
Whatever suits you.
A moderated board may be a good thing, especially given the pro-abort lashings dished out here.
Yeah, you already said that. I am sure you have much to offer in regard to showing "what prolifers are all about". I suppose we will have to wait and see.

reply from: yoda

There are several things very, very wrong with this statement, and I will try to remain calm while pointing them out.
One, "compassion" has nothing to do with turning a child into a baby killer.
Two, you did not say anything about her physical ability to bear a child, so that must not be your reason for giving a blanket recommendation to give her the abortion.
Three, a pregnant girl or woman ALREADY HAS A BABY, so you CAN'T "FORCE HER' to have a baby. But you are advising her to have a DEAD BABY instead of a live one.
Four, her life is not being threatened by her pregnancy, but you want to take the baby's life away anyway, just to show your "compassion".
Your statement is a perfect example of proabort propaganda.

reply from: yoda

I don't know the answers to any of those questions, I suppose that only you do.
All I know is that you are spreading proabort propaganda more profusely than the self-acknowledged proaborts on the board.
It's up to you to say why you are doing that.

reply from: yoda

He has, but under another name. Say hello to Faramir.

reply from: socratease

Wanting to see degradation and abusiveness of postabortive women stopped, is just plain common sense and decency. What you are referring to are not "habits and ideas," but are meanness and cruelty--making a sport of demeaning another person.
So since this seems to be a free-for-all here, I think I should say what I think about it, but it's very odd you have more of a problem with me pointing it out than you do with the bullying that is being done.
Anyway, thank you for all your suggestions and advice. I can handle this on my own from now on, I think, and won't be needing further input or moderation from you.

reply from: yoda

VERNON, you haven't changed a bit, have you?

reply from: carolemarie

There are several things very, very wrong with this statement, and I will try to remain calm while pointing them out.
One, "compassion" has nothing to do with turning a child into a baby killer.
Two, you did not say anything about her physical ability to bear a child, so that must not be your reason for giving a blanket recommendation to give her the abortion.
Three, a pregnant girl or woman ALREADY HAS A BABY, so you CAN'T "FORCE HER' to have a baby. But you are advising her to have a DEAD BABY instead of a live one.
Four, her life is not being threatened by her pregnancy, but you want to take the baby's life away anyway, just to show your "compassion".
Your statement is a perfect example of proabort propaganda.
Try to pay attention. I did not say she should have an abortion I said that she and her entire family need counseling before making a decision. aI am okay with that family making the decision based on what is best for that little girl.
It should be pretty obvious that an 11 year old isn't the same physically and emotionally as a grown up. And since this is a mythical person, I can't tell you about her case or if her life is threatened. But that isn't my main concern. My main concern is this little girl and her life.
Abortion on the hard cases should be left up to the persons involved.

reply from: lukesmom

He has, but under another name. Say hello to Faramir.
Faramir??? Hmmm, yes, I could see that it may be him. What you say socratease? I pmed you but you didn't/wouldn't answer so I think I may have my answer faramir... Not that it matters but a little honesty would be refreshing.

reply from: socratease

He has, but under another name. Say hello to Faramir.
Faramir??? Hmmm, yes, I could see that it may be him. What you say socratease? I pmed you but you didn't/wouldn't answer so I think I may have my answer faramir... Not that it matters but a little honesty would be refreshing.
I thought that people could use screen names for the sake of privacy and safety. Is there some rule that we must reveal private information, and is there some prize if someone violates this privacy by posting (or thinking they are posting) someone's private information?
I am not Faramir. I am not Borimir. I am not Gollum. For the sake of my posting on this board, I am socratease and my personal information or whether I was or was not any other screen name is nobody's business. Everyone on this board should be able to post annonymously, if he or she so chooses. I choose to do so for safety and privacy reasons, and anyone who would try to determine personal information about me, and anyone who would post what they think is personal information about me, is attempting to violate my privacy and compromise my anonymity and safety.

reply from: Banned Member

Shall we discuss what the pro-abortion crowd says about the Catholic pro-lifer?

reply from: 4given

I thought that people could use screen names for the sake of privacy and safety. Is there some rule that we must reveal private information, and is there some prize if someone violates this privacy by posting (or thinking they are posting) someone's private information?
I am not Faramir. I am not Borimir. I am not Gollum. For the sake of my posting on this board, I am socratease and my personal information or whether I was or was not any other screen name is nobody's business. Everyone on this board should be able to post annonymously, if he or she so chooses. I choose to do so for safety and privacy reasons, and anyone who would try to determine personal information about me, and anyone who would post what they think is personal information about me, is attempting to violate my privacy and compromise my anonymity and safety.That's a yes. I vote for Gollum.

reply from: Banned Member

Sauron, the necromancer?

reply from: lukesmom

He has, but under another name. Say hello to Faramir.
Faramir??? Hmmm, yes, I could see that it may be him. What you say socratease? I pmed you but you didn't/wouldn't answer so I think I may have my answer faramir... Not that it matters but a little honesty would be refreshing.
I thought that people could use screen names for the sake of privacy and safety. Is there some rule that we must reveal private information, and is there some prize if someone violates this privacy by posting (or thinking they are posting) someone's private information?
I am not Faramir. I am not Borimir. I am not Gollum. For the sake of my posting on this board, I am socratease and my personal information or whether I was or was not any other screen name is nobody's business. Everyone on this board should be able to post annonymously, if he or she so chooses. I choose to do so for safety and privacy reasons, and anyone who would try to determine personal information about me, and anyone who would post what they think is personal information about me, is attempting to violate my privacy and compromise my anonymity and safety.
For crying out loud, admitting you are faramir would not affect national security. You aren't that important and weren't when you were faramir either. Simple question that doesn't comprimise your anonymity or security batman.
But another prolife voice is a good thing.

reply from: speck

Yet somehow it was ok for there to be such an outcry over the name HEATHER.

reply from: 4given

Whom do you propose should counsel them? Do you mean a church or religious authority or an Ob-Gyn?

reply from: Teresa18

No one is revealing any personal information that you didn't already give. You gave the name Faramir last time you posted here, and you admitted that you posted on Pro-Choice Talk under the name of Vernon. You came back under a different screenname for whatever reason, but we recognized your writing style and posts regarding board moderation.

reply from: socratease

If someone wants to post anonymously, you ought to respect that.
And why are you more interested in outing someone than you are in the topic of this thread, which has to do with a poster being degraded and treated as a punching bag? Why no comment about that?
What difference does it make who I am?
How about just respond or not respond to my posts?

reply from: socratease

Back to the topic:
The majority of the board think that calling someone a "killer of three" is wrong, and the vast majority of them think that something should be done about it.
Allegedly, seven voted "It doesn't bother me at all. I like it."
I've got a hard time believing that many voted that way. Do any of you who did vote that way care to admit it?
I can only think of two for sure who could be so hateful.

reply from: yoda

Vernon, you have made it your business to bring this up constantly, day after day, over and over...... how could it not have been "noticed"?
BTW, you can take off your disguise now. We all know who you are.

reply from: yoda

Wow, hell must surely have frozen over, I'm agreeing with skippy again!

reply from: yoda

No, you didn't say that. You said: "I can't imagine a little girl being forced to have a baby."
In other words, you're okay with her being "forced" to kill her baby.
And to hell with that pesky little baby, right?
You're worse than the proaborts in some ways, and I agree with skippy said, you are prochoice with exceptions.
Hey, the other proaborts say they're ALL "hard cases"!
Don't you agree? Who gets to say which are the "hard cases"?

reply from: yoda

That's true, you are Vernon, who is now playing the part of "socratease".
Oh, btw, you forgot to deny that you are "Vernon".

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

No, you didn't say that. You said: "I can't imagine a little girl being forced to have a baby."
In other words, you're okay with her being "forced" to kill her baby.
And to hell with that pesky little baby, right?
You're worse than the proaborts in some ways, and I agree with skippy said, you are prochoice with exceptions.
Hey, the other proaborts say they're ALL "hard cases"!
Don't you agree? Who gets to say which are the "hard cases"?
Carolmarie is pro-abortion. She thinks it's best in some cases; if that is what is wanted.
I use the term pro-abortion in this case because the example of an eleven year old would not be pro-choice in the sense that the mom decides. Obviously, the adult community will be making this decision for her. Carolmarie is expressing that she is for abortion, she's pro-abortion, because sometimes that is the best thing (so says Carol).
I guess Carol would say we should not call the responsible person a "killer of one", just as she, the responsible party, is not a "killer of three". If she advocates someone becoming a "killer of one", then I believe her unrepentant mindset leaves her a "killer of three"; for she still advocates killing children in the womb.

reply from: socratease

What does she say about her own abortions?
Does she excuse them or regret them?
Was it the killer side of her that saved more babies doing prolife work than all the prolifers here combined?
You are combing two separate things--her personal sins, which are between her and God, and her perspective about making exceptions in certain cases.
I don't agree with her views about exceptions, but that doesn't mean that I can use her as a punching bag over her sins.
You have been a fornicator by your own admission. Do I get to call you a fornicator all the time now if I don't agree with something you say?
I don't think that would be the right thing to do. It would be cruel. Especially since I presume you've changed your ways. But regardless--whatever you shared about your personal life should be kept separate from the views you express about politics, religion etc. That's just common sense, decency, and good manners.
But this thread was started because of the brutal and relentness personal attacks and degredation of one poster to another, and not because of a couple of petty personal attacks.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Some people live life without regrets because they choose instead to view every experience as a lesson, and because they know they would not be who they are today without those experiences. Saying you regret something then, is saying that you don't want to be who you are. And we should all want to be ourselves.
Living without regret is NOT living without sorrow. I am sorry for many things, but I do not regret: aka, I do not want to go back into the past and change those things. I'm sorry I hurt people and myself with bad decisions, but they have made me who I am today. It's extremely hard to follow this philosophy because saying "I wish I hadn't done that" is almost human instinct. You have to learn to say "that was really stupid, I shouldn't have done it but I did, now what did I learn?".
Regret is useless, because we cannot go back and change things. Feel sorry for sure. But if you don't like who you are, you need to look towards the future, towards taking actions that MAKE you a better person. You cannot undo your past. So it is better to view those mistakes as lessons, rather than to wish to relive those moments.

reply from: socratease

excuses them.
I have seen posts where she says she regrets them. That's not making excuses.

reply from: faithman

excuses them.
I have seen posts where she says she regrets them. That's not making excuses.
that is because the little pro-death she wolf was confronted, and she changed her tune. She came here and flaunted her hate crime against her own children as a "youthful mistake" to which she had "no regrets". She only changed her death song when real pro-lifers called this phony on it. But it does not suprise me that fartamir, or what ever you call yourself now, would ignore those facts. You think you should defend the killers, and ignore the ones who are the true victims, the womb children they kill. the killer of 3 obviously has a conflict of interest. We don't need the voice of a murderer talking down to us as to how to defend those the likes of her have not killed yet. Her answere is to lavish sugar syrup on killers. Yeah, that real pro-life huh? Reward the killers for killing, boy howdy, that will make um stop huh? Kill your child and become a "pro-life" hero. Yepper, that will stop the slaughter..... NOT!!!

reply from: micah

I would disagree with you both here, so I'm going to go into more detail on what pro-choice means. Pro-choice means you believe that the choice of reproduction lies with the woman. If there is an abortion where the decision ever lies with the government and not the woman, then you're anti-choice. I don't care if you have a list of ten thousand exceptions where abortion is permissible, you either believe the decision of abortion lies with the woman (pro-choice) or with government (anti-choice).
Wow, hell must surely have frozen over, I'm agreeing with skippy again!

reply from: Rosalie

There's no such thing as pro-choice WITH EXCEPTION. You are either pro-choice because you understand that women have the right to make their own reproductive choices and that no one EVER has the right to use her body for survival and resources against her will - or you don't understand/accept that, in which case you are NOT pro-choice.

reply from: socratease

excuses them.
I have seen posts where she says she regrets them. That's not making excuses.
that is because the little pro-death she wolf was confronted, and she changed her tune. She came here and flaunted her hate crime against her own children as a "youthful mistake" to which she had "no regrets". She only changed her death song when real pro-lifers called this phony on it. But it does not suprise me that fartamir, or what ever you call yourself now, would ignore those facts. You think you should defend the killers, and ignore the ones who are the true victims, the womb children they kill. the killer of 3 obviously has a conflict of interest. We don't need the voice of a murderer talking down to us as to how to defend those the likes of her have not killed yet. Her answere is to lavish sugar syrup on killers. Yeah, that real pro-life huh? Reward the killers for killing, boy howdy, that will make um stop huh? Kill your child and become a "pro-life" hero. Yepper, that will stop the slaughter..... NOT!!!
How can there be a "conflict of interest" for her if she had LEGAL abortions? There is no conflict. She will not be punished for her abortions regardless of whatever law will be passed in the future, so she has nothing to gain by a law that lets women who abort off the hook.
I have seen numerous posts about her abortions, and I think you've mischaracterized her. She is sorry she had them. She wishes she did not abort. She strives to prevent others from aborting.
You disagree with her views about laws, religion, politics, etc. Why not just address THOSE ISSUES? Why does her past need to be brought up over and over and over and over?
I don't know what sins you've committed, but I'm sure you've done one or two things you're not proud of. And maybe you've changed and turned your back on it. If you stole some candy when you were a child, do I get to call you "the theif" every time I make a post about you or disagree with you?
You don't like that she does not support your ideas for ending abortion, and that she does not agree with your ideas for justice, in that the women should be punished, so you feel you have the right to connect that to her abortions.
But there are many who share that view about punishment, and are they killers too? MANY prolifers do not want to see the women punished--at least not in the beginning. As a Catholic I look to what the Church says and to what credible Catholic organizations say about it, such as Priests for Life, and that's their position too. As a Catholic for fifteen years, I know that the Church sees things clearly, and with a perfect balance of justice and mercy. And I know the Church has for 2,000 years opposed abortion, and has been the most staunch supporter of life, so I feel comfortable embracing the beliefs of credible Catholic organizations, and agree that punishment is not the answer--and that view doesn't make me a killer.
It's your right to disagree with this position, but my personal sins should not be a part of your rebuttal. If I had been an abortionist, but am now prolife, calling me a "killer" in no way invalidates my position, and is instead simply a cruel personal attack that has no place in a civil discussion.
I strongly disagree with her statements about making exceptions, and that abortion can sometimes be compassionate. Those positions undermine the prolife cause. But she has a good heart and good intentions, and is out there saving babies, and doing so with kindness and compassion, and if everyone were doing that, there would be less and not more abortions, so I think it's fair to say she is overall on the side of life, an enemy of abortion, and is doing more to save babies than most people are. If you really need to keep score so badly, then add the lives she's saved to the ones she's taken and use that positive number instead.
If you are doing good works to save babies, God bless you, and thank you for what you do. But you are hurting own credibilty and your own cause when you deviate into these hateful personal attacks.

reply from: scopia19822

"There's no such thing as pro-choice WITH EXCEPTION. '"
What do you call people who support abortion only in rape/incest or the life of the mother? But they support restrictions on abortion such as parental consent/notfication , term limits(no abortions after the 1st trimester) or no abortions except in the "hard" cases. Do you support abortion in all 3 trimesters for any reason? That is a legitment question of course you can decline to answer.

reply from: carolemarie

Rape incest and life of the mother exceptions make you prolife.
I am for banning all abortions with the above exceptions. That is prolife.

reply from: scopia19822

"Rape incest and life of the mother exceptions make you prolife.
I am for banning all abortions with the above exceptions. That is prolife"
I have to respectfully disagree. A baby concieved out of rape has just as much right to life as one who isnt concieved in rape.Your heart is in the right place, but I think you are wrong about this.

reply from: carolemarie

Even if I am wrong, I am still prolife.

reply from: nancyu

Wow, hell must surely have frozen over, I'm agreeing with skippy again!
anti choice to me means that abortion is NOT an option. Not that I think government should have the choice. I am anti choice for the government (and anyone else) as well as for the woman.

reply from: nancyu

I might add that it was government who decided women should be given this horrible choice, so that they would not have to get their own hands dirty by making the decision for them. Government wants women to abort, or they never would have made the "choice" available to them.

reply from: scopia19822

"Even if I am wrong, I am still prolife"
If that is how you view yourself fine. I just dont agree with you. To me being prolife means being prolife for all no exceptions.

reply from: carolemarie

That is profetus, when you only care that a baby is born, not if the mothers life is in danger or if you are talking about a raped 8 year old.
Prolife considers the woman and the fetus lives to be equally important and the mother gets to make that decision, not a law

reply from: nancyu

pro fetus?
You as a pro life person wouldn't say pro unborn child? pro unborn baby? pro unborn person? but pro fetus?

reply from: scopia19822

"That is profetus, when you only care that a baby is born, not if the mothers life is in danger or if you are talking about a raped 8 year old.
Prolife considers the woman and the fetus lives to be equally important and the mother gets to make that decision, not a law"
I care equally about the woman and the baby, however I dont think a woman no matter the circumstances of the child conception has a right to kill that child. Like Galen said in the 11 year old victim post, alot of women would view abortion as a 2nd assualt, that is why so many rape victims will not prosecute because the process of gathering the evidence could be seen the same way. We most certainly need a law that will protect the preborn like any other human being.

reply from: carolemarie

That is why counseling should be mandatory. I agree that some people push others into abortion. Not all rape vicitms are like Galen and want to have the baby. There have been very few studies done.
I think that some would have the baby if they had counseling and were allowed the freedom to express their feelings. That is what counseling is for.
And a womans right to her life isn't optional. She gets to decide if she dies so the baby can live.

reply from: carolemarie

profetus or pro unborn child I don't care which you use. Means the same thing

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What Carole is trying to say is that you are pro-fetus at the exclusion of ANY rights to the woman or ANY compassion for her situation.

reply from: nancyu

How about pro unborn person?
But I was asking you about which term YOU would use as you call yourself pro life. Pro fetus doesn't sound like a terribly pro life term. (I'm just saying)

reply from: nancyu

What Carole is trying to say is that you are pro-fetus at the exclusion of ANY rights to the woman or ANY compassion for her situation.
Note: I'm not really retarded, liberal.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What Carole is trying to say is that you are pro-fetus at the exclusion of ANY rights to the woman or ANY compassion for her situation.
Note: I'm not really retarded, liberal.
I never said you were, though you accused me of being so.

reply from: yoda

But we do care what you say. You claim to be a defender of the unborn, and yet you call them "fetus"?

reply from: socratease

But we do care what you say. You claim to be a defender of the unborn, and yet you call them "fetus"?
Huh?
What about a "toddler"?
I suppose calling a child a todler is dehumanizing him?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a prolifer using the term "fetus."
A fetus is a stage of development of a human person, as is an embryo, zygote, neonate, etc. etc.
She not only CLAIMS to be a defender, but has ACTUALLY SAVED HUNDREDS OF fetuses/human persons.

reply from: scopia19822

"There is absolutely nothing wrong with a prolifer using the term "fetus."
Generally I would agree with you, however the prochoicers have used the term fetus to dehumanize the unborn child, making it into a derogatory term instead of a scientific term.

reply from: carolemarie

There is nothing degroatory about the term fetus. It clearly delinates what it is that you are taking about.

reply from: faithman

OK profetus killer of three, tell us which time you were lying. The time you said that pre-born life was not equal to born life, or now that you have been found out a phony, back peddaling to say preborn life is equal to born life [which we have said all along]. Why would you declare that you would fight equal personhood under the law if it meant all those who kill, or conspire to kill, the womb child would meet justice handed down by a jury of citizens. Anyone who truely believed that the womb childs life was of equal value to the born [as you have just stated] would want for them equal protection under the law that all innocent life enjoys. But either way, you have lied. Which time was it?

reply from: carolemarie

Once again, both lifes are important, the baby and the mother. They are equal in value.
That doesn't mean that a fetus and a born child are the exact same thing.
I am against personhood for the following reasons:
1. I don't want BC outlawed.
2. I don't want women prosecuted
3. I don't think the law will pass. America is to divided.
4. I think there should be a life of the mother and rape and incest exception.

reply from: 4given

Where has it been stated that bc, the criminalization of mothers and health or other exceptions are included?

reply from: socratease

They don't own the word or its meaning, and we shouldn't concede ownership to them.
Prolifers see a fetus as a baby, but the word baby can mean born or yet to be born, and fetus is more precise, and prevents confusion, and besides is perfectly legitimate.
It's ridiculous to question whether someone wants to protect life in the womb because of the use the word fetus, especially on a board where we we all know what it means.

reply from: faithman

They don't own the word or its meaning, and we shouldn't concede ownership to them.
Prolifers see a fetus as a baby, but the word baby can mean born or yet to be born, and fetus is more precise, and prevents confusion, and besides is perfectly legitimate.
It's ridiculous to question whether someone wants to protect life in the womb because of the use the word fetus, especially on a board where we we all know what it means.
Man!!! It would seem that you guys would get tired of being dead wrong. The word fetus is latin for "little one". The term is used in the latin bible for both born, and preborn children. The term is used in modern times to cause confusion, not prevent it. What is ridiculous is for you to call yourself pro-life, and to be SSSSSOOOO ignorant of the historical use of the word. The bortheads most assuredly use the word to devalue pre-born life, just as the profetus killer of three has done on this forum. It is obvious that you do not know the meaning of the word, nor it's historical use in modern times to make the womb child less human than the born person. You are the stupid one here, as the original use of the word ment "little one" whether pre-born or born, just like the english word baby. SSSSSOOOOOO why would someone who claims to be SSSSOOOO pro-life not want to use the word baby that connects people emotionally to our common humanity, in favor of a word the bortheads have used from a dead language, to actually confuse people into believing that the womb child is less valuable to the born child? And your dear little pro-death friend CM is trying to use that very term in a derogatory way to devalue the womb child? You are the obvious ignorant idiot here. Now all we have to determan is whether your just plain dumb, or doing it on purpose like CM and her pro-death crowd of false pro-lifers?

reply from: yoda

Well Vernon, are you saying that we don't all know what "baby" means?
Come on, fess up! Is the word "baby" too complicated for the proaborts and you? Or am I being redundant?

reply from: faithman

Well Vernon, are you saying that we don't all know what "baby" means?
Come on, fess up! Is the word "baby" too complicated for the proaborts and you? Or am I being redundant?
It would seem that is what this punk is exactly doing!!! Has a real bad habit of defending everything but the womb child.

reply from: socratease

A man who would be purposely spiteful in violating privacy would also be spiteful in his part time photography "business."
It's not about "the babies" for some of these prolifers.

reply from: faithman

Post reported.
and?......

reply from: yoda

Bad example. Toddler is not a technical term, it's a common term like "baby".
No one has said there is. Just as there's nothing wrong with the term "anti-choicer", because it's in the dictionary.
No speeches, please. We don't give out awards for prolife work here.

reply from: yoda

You keep on wearing that euphemism out (the exact same thing) as if we were supposed to know what it means. What the hell does it mean?
Both a human fetus and a born child are members of our species, and therefore are both human beings.
Is that not "exactly the same thing"? Or do you discriminate against one particular category of human being?
And here I thought only proaborts talked with a mouth full of euphemisms.

reply from: yoda

What the hell are you babbling about now, Vernon?
I'll tell you the same thing I told Lib: If you've got a problem with my photos, sue me in court or shut your nasty mouth!

reply from: yoda

and?......
I can tell you're just shaking in your boots.....

reply from: carolemarie

You keep on wearing that euphemism out (the exact same thing) as if we were supposed to know what it means. What the hell does it mean?
Both a human fetus and a born child are members of our species, and therefore are both human beings.
Is that not "exactly the same thing"? Or do you discriminate against one particular category of human being?
And here I thought only proaborts talked with a mouth full of euphemisms.
Not the same thing means not exactly equivilant.
a fetus isn't equivilant to a born child.

reply from: yoda

Is an adult and a newborn "exactly the same thing"?
Are any two human beings "exactly the same thing"?
Like I said, I thought only proaborts hid behind euphemisms. Was I wrong?

reply from: faithman

You keep on wearing that euphemism out (the exact same thing) as if we were supposed to know what it means. What the hell does it mean?
Both a human fetus and a born child are members of our species, and therefore are both human beings.
Is that not "exactly the same thing"? Or do you discriminate against one particular category of human being?
And here I thought only proaborts talked with a mouth full of euphemisms.
Not the same thing means not exactly equivilant.
a fetus isn't equivilant to a born child.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You keep on wearing that euphemism out (the exact same thing) as if we were supposed to know what it means. What the hell does it mean?
Both a human fetus and a born child are members of our species, and therefore are both human beings.
Is that not "exactly the same thing"? Or do you discriminate against one particular category of human being?
And here I thought only proaborts talked with a mouth full of euphemisms.
Not the same thing means not exactly equivilant.
a fetus isn't equivilant to a born child.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.
Not everyone is spiritual so your argument is just preaching to the choir. I may agree with you but that doesn't mean an atheist will.

reply from: faithman

You keep on wearing that euphemism out (the exact same thing) as if we were supposed to know what it means. What the hell does it mean?
Both a human fetus and a born child are members of our species, and therefore are both human beings.
Is that not "exactly the same thing"? Or do you discriminate against one particular category of human being?
And here I thought only proaborts talked with a mouth full of euphemisms.
Not the same thing means not exactly equivilant.
a fetus isn't equivilant to a born child.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.
Not everyone is spiritual so your argument is just preaching to the choir. I may agree with you but that doesn't mean an atheist will.
What is particularly spiritual about my post?

reply from: Faramir

The stuff about life and the container, etc.
Though I see it more as if the soul contains the body, since the soul is greater than the body and can live without the body.

reply from: faithman

The stuff about life and the container, etc.
Though I see it more as if the soul contains the body, since the soul is greater than the body and can live without the body.
But has a real tough time operating on earth with out the ole earth suit [body]. the essay doesn't mention any particular faith at all, nor does it mention the soul. It mentions life. You can put your spin on it all you want but then it becomes your message not mine. you should end such posts with IMO. My statements speak for themselves. They don't need your "inturpitation".

reply from: LiberalChiRo

The stuff about life and the container, etc.
Though I see it more as if the soul contains the body, since the soul is greater than the body and can live without the body.
But has a real tough time operating on earth with out the ole earth suit [body]. the essay doesn't mention any particular faith at all, nor does it mention the soul. It mentions life. You can put your spin on it all you want but then it becomes your message not mine. you should end such posts with IMO. My statements speak for themselves. They don't need your "inturpitation".
You don't need religion to be spiritual, and to believe in any kind of soul or spirit is to be "spiritual". "Life force" is a type of spirit. Most hardcore logical based scientists denounce the existence of any kind of life force, spirit or soul.

reply from: faithman

Man!!! It would seem that you guys would get tired of being dead wrong. The word fetus is latin for "little one". The term is used in the latin bible for both born, and preborn children. The term is used in modern times to cause confusion, not prevent it. What is ridiculous is for you to call yourself pro-life, and to be SSSSSOOOO ignorant of the historical use of the word. The bortheads most assuredly use the word to devalue pre-born life, just as the profetus killer of three has done on this forum. It is obvious that you do not know the meaning of the word, nor it's historical use in modern times to make the womb child less human than the born person. You are the stupid one here, as the original use of the word ment "little one" whether pre-born or born, just like the english word baby. SSSSSOOOOOO why would someone who claims to be SSSSOOOO pro-life not want to use the word baby that connects people emotionally to our common humanity, in favor of a word the bortheads have used from a dead language, to actually confuse people into believing that the womb child is less valuable to the born child? And your dear little pro-death friend CM is trying to use that very term in a derogatory way to devalue the womb child? You are the obvious ignorant idiot here. Now all we have to determan is whether your just plain dumb, or doing it on purpose like CM and her pro-death crowd of false pro-lifers?

reply from: yoda

Is an adult and a newborn "exactly the same thing"?
Are any two human beings "exactly the same thing"?
Like I said, I thought only proaborts hid behind euphemisms. Was I wrong?

reply from: ChristianLott2

and yet you're not a liar when you say you're pro life...
cm, you're not equivalent to a person, born or pre born.
you're equivalent to a pro abort like rml, bm, and lib.

reply from: faithman

and yet you're not a liar when you say you're pro life...
cm, you're not equivalent to a person, born or pre born.
you're equivalent to a pro abort like rml, bm, and lib.
Qit telling the truth hater!!!!

reply from: carolemarie

You should really try to may attention to context and not distort what I say or twist its meaning
A born child is not the same thing as one in the womb. There are big differences depending on what stage of development you are taking about.
They are both living humans of course, but they are not the same thing...this is apparent on how we relate to them. Does it mean that the child in the womb doestn' deserve protection from death? No. it deserves to be allowed to grow and live.
Is an abortion the same as killing a born child? Obviously not. People do not kill born children to the tune of 1.2 million a year. We see them as different.
I never said that abortion should be the only option for a raped victim. I think they and their families should have counseling. Most families push for the abortion, not so much the child. She usually has no say so. But I am willing to conceed that I don't know what is best in every situtation, so I would leave these rare situtations to the family

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: yoda

Is an adult and a newborn "exactly the same thing"?
Are any two human beings "exactly the same thing"?
Like I said, I thought only proaborts hid behind euphemisms. Was I wrong?

reply from: faithman

Is an adult and a newborn "exactly the same thing"?
Are any two human beings "exactly the same thing"?
Like I said, I thought only proaborts hid behind euphemisms. Was I wrong?
Nope..... You pretty much got that one right......

reply from: LiberalChiRo

and yet you're not a liar when you say you're pro life...
cm, you're not equivalent to a person, born or pre born.
you're equivalent to a pro abort like rml, bm, and lib.
No, you're just blind. She explains exactly what she's talking about below.
And the fact that most pro-lifers allow abortion to save the woman's life means that they too feel that the unborn and born are not equivalent. So you really have no ground to stand on.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.
and yet you're not a liar when you say you're pro life...
cm, you're not equivalent to a person, born or pre born.
you're equivalent to a pro abort like rml, bm, and lib.
No, you're just blind. She explains exactly what she's talking about below.
And the fact that most pro-lifers allow abortion to save the woman's life means that they too feel that the unborn and born are not equivalent. So you really have no ground to stand on.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.
[this one needed a double order...]

reply from: nancyu

So does the child become a different person after he is born?

reply from: yoda

Is an adult and a newborn "exactly the same thing"?
Are any two human beings "exactly the same thing"?
Like I said, I thought only proaborts hid behind euphemisms. Was I wrong?

reply from: faithman

Is an adult and a newborn "exactly the same thing"?
Are any two human beings "exactly the same thing"?
Like I said, I thought only proaborts hid behind euphemisms. Was I wrong?
Not wrong at all. This one is pro-death thru and thru...

reply from: ChristianLott2

No hypocrite, when someone has to make a decision between their life and someone elses in an either-or situation, it's always a choice. This applies to born and pre born. That some women choose the life of their child in favor of their own sometimes is just as legitimate a choice as someone jumping on a grenade to save someone elses life.
So I have all the ground now and you have none, hypocrite. Why don't you think before you speak???

reply from: ChristianLott2

I am REALLY sick of idiot faux lifers around here.

reply from: yoda

They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?

reply from: ChristianLott2

They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?
Aw man. I'm so depressed. There are what like... 4 pro lifers on this board???

reply from: nancyu

They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?
Aw man. I'm so depressed. There are what like... 4 pro lifers on this board???

I count like 16, but a few haven't been around lately. I wish Sander, Joe and Teddybearhamster would come back but they are all busy with their little ones.
Don't be depressed, just because they're not on this board doesn't mean they're not out there fighting right along beside us.

reply from: faithman

They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?
But they do an invaluable service. They are great educational aids in exposing the phoniness that has poluted a so called movement. Quite often I get PM's on this very subject.

reply from: yoda

Sander is fairly active over on TeamSarah, but I don't know about Joe or TBH. I think we have a pretty good core here, and I'd put the number a bit higher, like about 8 or so.

reply from: micah

There are only 3 pro-choicers (spinwiddy, rosalie & I) on here, so technically we're the ones who are outgunned. Actually, nevermind, we aren't outgunned.
They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?
Aw man. I'm so depressed. There are what like... 4 pro lifers on this board???

reply from: ChristianLott2

wha? I WISH all we had to fight were you three. Unfortunately there are a host of pro choicers who are in denial and are claiming to be pro life.
That's the whole reason pro lifers have gotten NOWHERE in the last 35 years.

reply from: carolemarie

They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?
But they do an invaluable service. They are great educational aids in exposing the phoniness that has poluted a so called movement. Quite often I get PM's on this very subject.
You pm yourself????

reply from: Faramir

They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?
But they do an invaluable service. They are great educational aids in exposing the phoniness that has poluted a so called movement. Quite often I get PM's on this very subject.
You pm yourself????
I'm sure the members of the unholy trinity of this board keep in contact with each other.
lol

reply from: faithman

They really don't do a very good job of imitating prolifers, do they?
But they do an invaluable service. They are great educational aids in exposing the phoniness that has poluted a so called movement. Quite often I get PM's on this very subject.
You pm yourself????
AAAAAWWWW! Isn't that cute. The baby killer is trying to be funny. Now everyone laugh at the cute little baby killer!!!


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics