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Christmas - Tammuz, the reason for the season

Beginning of "Mother and Child" worship (Mary/Jesus) goes back to Babylon/Nimrod

by: GodsLaw4Us2Live

By Tim Boucher, Monday, December 1st, 2003 at 11:28 pm
Tammuz is the reason for the season
An (profanity deleted) article about how Christmas is a "pagan abomination" called The History & Traditions Of Christmas. A few good passages though:
December 25th BEFORE Christ
Prior to the celebration of Christmas, December 25th (the winter solstice) was celebrated in Babylon as the birthday of Tammuz the sun god. In Egypt he was Horas and in Rome and Persia he was Mithra the "sun of righteousness." All of these cultures were regarding the so called immaculate conception of the "sun god." The basis of this celebration can be traced back to the kingdom of Nimrod.
After an incestuous relationship between Beltis, Nimrod's wife and one of her sons Tammuz was born. Tammuz was claimed to be the reincarnation of Nimrod "god incarnate." (Tammuz was said to be "the beginning and end, therefore immortal. Yet this so called pagan god of the sun was merely a mortal who was eventually killed by a wild boar.) This is the origin of the worship of the "Mother and Child." Because of this, Beltis the mother of Tammuz, became known as "the mother's husband -mother of god - queen of heaven." This fable has been the basis of pagan worship on this date throughout history. This information can be found in most any encyclopedia.
December 25th AFTER Christ
Saturnalia "a roman holiday" from December 17th to the 24th was a week long festival with torch light processions, gift-giving and merry-making culminating in a winter solstice feast on December 25th, called Natilis Solis Invicti "the birth of the unconquerable sun," meaning that now the sun begins to increase it's strength after it had been at its lowest ebb. The approach of the feast was started with the Pontiff standing in front of Saturn's temple exclaiming "Ho Saturnalia! Ho Saturnalia! Ho Saturnalia!" (Sounds a little like our modern Ho Ho Ho doesn't it?) In 375 A.D. the Roman Catholic Church (which began the merging of paganism with Christianity) announced that the birth date of Christ would be celebrated on December 25th also. Thus many of the pagan traditions such as gift giving, feasting, merry making and (sun) rise services were incorporated into a new tradition called "Christmas.
...According to Babylonian tradition, Nimrod was transformed into a fir tree at death as was his son, Tammuz. The term 'Yule' is Chaldee for child. In medieval Germany the people worshipped a variant on that name, Tiwaz. When their prayers for victory were answered they hung the heads and spoils of those they killed in battle on the trees in their sacred groves. This is the origin of hanging ornaments on Christmas trees."
I don't know if I believe that's the real origin of ornaments, but (obscene statements deleted)!

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Gosh, what's the matter? Not in the Christmas spirit? No one has commented. We have been enjoying the Christmas season for 4,000 years. Well, this festival has gone by various names in various cultures over the years. In the end, it's fun to continue traditions that you learn as a kid that were passed on by your parents, and their parents before them, and so on all the way back to the first world ruling empire; Babylon. My relatives call me a real fuddy-duddy for breaking this chain of traditions that goes back 4,000 years.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I like Christmas and will continue to do it as a celebration of Christ's birth. So will my future children. I enjoy giving gifts and spreading love and joy. Period.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Saturnalia "a roman holiday" from December 17th to the 24th was a week long festival with torch light processions, gift-giving and merry-making culminating in a winter solstice feast on December 25th, called Natilis Solis Invicti "the birth of the unconquerable sun," meaning that now the sun begins to increase it's strength after it had been at its lowest ebb.
Roman citizens were already observing the birth of the Sun God on Dec 25. The Catholic Church said they would call it the birth of the Son God instead.
This observance has no spiritual value whatsoever. In fact, it detracts from the true message of the Bible. (There is a Government coming, get on board and get yourself a position.)

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I am not celebrating the birth of a sun god, I am celebrating the birth of Christ. What part of that can't you understand?

reply from: kd78

the date for christmas was moved to accommodate pagan tribes. it made it easier to convert. and some of the symbols used for decoration do have pagan origin. JUST BECAUSE SOME OF US ARE NOT CHRISTIANS DOES NOT MEAN WE HATE JESUS OR CHRISTMAS!

reply from: faithman

The part where his legalism makes him feel superior to others.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

The part where his legalism makes him feel superior to others.
It was my understanding that the great Whore (the Church that goes to bed with man's government) also teaches the Babylonian Mystery religion. I believe both of these are in Revelation. I'll give Revelation another read. No problem with compromising with men's governments and teaching ancient pagan traditions then?
I'm addressing Faithman, you can keep your day happily LiberalChiRo.

reply from: faithman

The part where his legalism makes him feel superior to others.
It was my understanding that the great Whore (the Church that goes to bed with man's government) also teaches the Babylonian Mystery religion. I believe both of these are in Revelation. I'll give Revelation another read. No problem with compromising with men's governments and teaching ancient pagan traditions then?
I'm addressing Faithman, you can keep your day happily LiberalChiRo.
Paul said don't ask about the pagan stuff when you sit down to eat. Bless it and eat with good conscience. Might be a strech, but I think it applies here. Yes, many pagan feast days were "christianized" to make it easier to convert. Most churches also follow the design of pagan temples, and a clergy class is of jewish and pagan design. I don't think you have alot to worry about though. The modern pagans have done a good job of kicking Christ out of their holiday. Some say Christ was born in october, some november. Maybe we should allow the pagans to have december, and we will do something on one of them? In the mean time, I will sit down to Christmass, bless the day in rememberance of God who became as one of us in the form of a human child to sacrifice Himself for the sin of the world, and ignore the paganism with good conscience. As Paul said, if your conscience bothers you about it, don't participate.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Of course not ^^ And I've already told Augustine the exact same thing you said about conversion. He didn't listen then, either.
Thank you Augustine, for "letting" me keep it as a happy day. I think what makes me angry is this:
From the day I was born, I have been celebrating Christmas as a celebration of birth. I am a Christmas-Eve baby. I never even heard it was related to pagan holidays until I was nearly in college. It has NEVER been a pagan holiday for me; in fact, it has been one of the few connections to Christianity I have remained faithful to for my whole life.
We will be born again into heaven. Sharing gifts at the winter solstice is celebrating a mini-rebirth of ourselves, when we can remember the one true important aspect of God: Love. Aside from the crazy shoppers, imagine if the whole world could behave as caring as they do during Christmas? It would seem like heaven wouldn't it? And yet, heaven will be even better than that!! If we can create a little peace on earth for just a month, I don't see the flaws in that.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

How thoughtful. Belial and Christ can sit down at the same table during this winter solstice celebration.
Islamic star and crescent join town's Christmas tree, menorah
'Spirit of inclusion': 'Jesus Christ himself would have gathered everyone around him'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 14, 2008
2:40 am Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

The decision by a New York village to place the Islamic star and crescent alongside the community's official Christmas tree has a Catholic leader wondering if there are any wise men among the town's leaders.
Supervisors for Armonk, N.Y. voted to display a menorah and a star and crescent at tonight's Christmas tree lighting ceremony at the town's gazebo.
"We've decided to go in the direction of being all-inclusive," Supervisor Reese Berman told Associated Press.
The village had added the menorah previously. Last year, town resident Asad Jilani, saying the Christmas season is an appropriate time to celebrate all cultures, asked the board to include Islamic symbols as well.
"I said 'Oh, there's a menorah and a Christmas tree and where is my crescent?'" said Jilani.
Berman, who is Jewish, said the town did not have time to adequately address Jilani's request last year and, to not make Muslims feel they were being specifically excluded, the menorah was removed to a local synagogue.
"The last thing I was suggesting was to move the menorah," Jilani said. "I wanted this to be for openness, for representing everyone."
Would you like to be able to give friends and relatives exactly the right gifts this holiday season - but you just aren't sure what they would like? Shop.WND.com gift certificates is the answer.
This year, after a committee researched the law and what was being done in other communities, Armonk leaders voted to include the star and crescent, even though the closest Islamic festival of Eid al-Adha does not always fall in December.
"It might have been easier to just do away with the Christmas tree and everything else but it would be too much of an assault on what we're used to at Christmas," said Berman.
(Story continues below)

According to the board's guidelines, any group interested in displaying a privately-funded symbol through the Christmas season must submit a formal application. The board makes no determination as to whether a symbol is secular or religious. The process is open to all religions.
"Arab-Americans and Muslim Americans are Americans and respect other religions," said Laila Al-Qatami, spokeswoman for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee in Washington. "They know that Christmas is a big holiday and they're glad to be included."
That's a sentiment that feels right to Catholic-raised Judy Wesley, director of the Armonk Chamber of Commerce.
"In my opinion there's nothing wrong with having a spirit of inclusion," she said. "Jesus Christ himself would have gathered everyone around him."
Bill Donahue, president of the Catholic League for Civil and Religious Rights, disagrees, saying the town has chosen to display Jewish and Islamic religious symbols while leaving out the Christian religious symbol of the season, a Nativity scene. He does not believe the Christmas tree is a religious symbol.
Further, he says, the inclusive display "shows tremendous sympathy for Jews and Muslims at the expense of the majority Christians."

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I find that very hard to believe. I don't think the bible ever says the word "christmas" in the first place, much less that it specifically bans fir trees decorated with popcorn, baubles and other items. You go find that verse for me.

reply from: Nulono

Solstice is the reason

reply from: LiberalChiRo

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
I'm not even kidding.
The adorned tree us a very ancient custom to celebrate Saturnalia or the Winter Solstice. A rabid Penticostal coworker I once had showed me this:
What exactly does Jeremiah 10 say? Below is Jeremiah 10:1-10:
This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter."
. 9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz. What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple-- all made by skilled workers. 10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.
That doesn't mean it's a FIR tree, just a tree in general. It also doesn't say it is a tree decorated to celebrate the birth of christ.

reply from: Gamera

Hoo boy, where to start?
1) Babylon didn't use our calendar, so they didn't have a "December 25th."
2) December 25th isn't the winter solstice. December 21st is.
3) Long before the Christmas Feast was set at December 25th, the early Catholic Church was celebrating the Annunciation (at which Jesus was conceived) on March 25th. Adding 9 months to March 25th gave us the date of December 25th on which to celebrate Jesus' birth. The selection of December 25th had nothing to do with proximity to the winter solstice and everything to do with the simple fact that human pregnancy lasts for 9 months.
4) All this "Tammuz" nonsense comes from a 19th century conspiracy theorist named Alexander Hislop who held a preposterous theory that all paganism originated in Babylon. It didn't. Other cultures developed their own pagan deities without any influence from Babylon.
5) The way Hislop developed this crackpot "Tammuz" theory was by taking any similar-sounding words and assuming they had a common origin --- like in this article, assuming "Ho saturnalia" is the origin of "Ho Ho Ho" because they have a similar sound, or "Tiwaz" is the same as "Tammuz" because they have a similar sound. By that reasoning, the Biblical "abomination of desolation" is the same as "the a-bomb of desolation." Similar-sounding words, occurring in different cultures separated by centuries, are not automatically connected. That's like a future historian looking back and assuming Barack Obama must have been the same person as Osama Bin Laden because "Obama" sounds similar to "Osama." It is nonsense.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Hoo boy, where to start?
1) Babylon didn't use our calendar, so they didn't have a "December 25th."
2) December 25th isn't the winter solstice. December 21st is.
3) Long before the Christmas Feast was set at December 25th, the early Catholic Church was celebrating the Annunciation (at which Jesus was conceived) on March 25th. Adding 9 months to March 25th gave us the date of December 25th on which to celebrate Jesus' birth. The selection of December 25th had nothing to do with proximity to the winter solstice and everything to do with the simple fact that human pregnancy lasts for 9 months.
4) All this "Tammuz" nonsense comes from a 19th century conspiracy theorist named Alexander Hislop who held a preposterous theory that all paganism originated in Babylon. It didn't. Other cultures developed their own pagan deities without any influence from Babylon.
5) The way Hislop developed this crackpot "Tammuz" theory was by taking any similar-sounding words and assuming they had a common origin --- like in this article, assuming "Ho saturnalia" is the origin of "Ho Ho Ho" because they have a similar sound, or "Tiwaz" is the same as "Tammuz" because they have a similar sound. By that reasoning, the Biblical "abomination of desolation" is the same as "the a-bomb of desolation." Similar-sounding words, occurring in different cultures separated by centuries, are not automatically connected. That's like a future historian looking back and assuming Barack Obama must have been the same person as Osama Bin Laden because "Obama" sounds similar to "Osama." It is nonsense.
The history of the calendar is long and convoluted. The Romans and Catholic Church are largely responsible for the calendar in the form we have it now. Previously, a month followed the moon's cycle. It was just over 28 days between new moons, or full moons, however you want to look at it. When the first piece of a new moon was sighted that was the beginning of a new month. The moon would wax fuller each day until by the 14th day it was full. Then it waxed smaller until gone on the 28th day. A year use to have 12 or 13 months, as necessary. Roman Catholic Church mathematicians did calculations to come up with a calendar containing exactly 12 months, no more, no less. To do this some months had to be longer than 28 days, usually 30 or 31 days. The winter solstice use to fall on December 25. The Roman - Catholic calendar did get off several days. In one year centuries ago ten days were dropped out of the calendar to correct the seasons and some fine tuning of the calendar was done. A leap year with 29 days in February is done ocassionally.
The fact is, Babylonians held their pagan celebrations on the winter solstice. Yes, they didn't have the Roman calendar saying the day was December 25. After the Romans devised their calander the winter solstice continued to be celebrated, this time on December 25. The winter solstice no longer falls on December 25, it's around December 21-22 now and that stays consistant.
Their are lots of enclopedia articles to draw the Greek and Babylonian religious myth stories from. I believe they are relatively accurate. Zeus, Hercules, Artemis, the Titans (the four elements: Earth, Fire, Wind, Water) are all well known stories from Greek religious beliefs. I believe we also understand a lot about ancient Egyptian, Summerian and Babylonian gods. I believe worship of the Mother and Son came from ancient Babylonian traditions because Revelation says that even today the whorish Church would be teaching the Babylonian Mystery religion. Thus you hear about how Mary was Immaculately Conceived, how she is perpetually a virgin, she seems to be the ancient Queen of Heaven who can whisper in Jesus' ear and get favors for you.
The Bible proposes that Babylon is the root of confusion. It was the first great empire. It created the Babylonian Mystery religion. Nearly all pagan religions have adopted elements of the Babylonian Mystery religion; including Catholicism.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Here is a wikipedia article about the winter solstice, the reason for the season. Colorful characters like Tammuz, Santa, Jesus have been woven into the winter solstice celebrations. The winter solstice now ocurs Dec 20 - Dec 23. The article points out that the Dec 24 evening and Dec 25 morning originally was considered the winter solstice in the early Julian calander.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice

reply from: LiberalChiRo

MY reason for the season is the birth of Jesus Christ. Your obsession with debunking Christmas leads me to believe you wish you had the guts to be pagan.

reply from: scopia19822

"I believe worship of the Mother and Son came from ancient Babylonian traditions because Revelation says that even today the whorish Church would be teaching the Babylonian Mystery religion. Thus you hear about how Mary was Immaculately Conceived, how she is perpetually a virgin, she seems to be the ancient Queen of Heaven who can whisper in Jesus' ear and get favors for you.
The Bible proposes that Babylon is the root of confusion. It was the first great empire. It created the Babylonian Mystery religion. Nearly all pagan religions have adopted elements of the Babylonian Mystery religion; including Catholicism."
Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches are not pagan. We are CHRISTIAN too. Get over youself and put the Chick tracts away. All they are is hate spewing literature that spread lies and profane the Gospel.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Scopia19822 said:
Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches are not pagan. We are CHRISTIAN too. Get over youself and put the Chick tracts away. All they are is hate spewing literature that spread lies and profane the Gospel.
My response:
I've heard of "Chick" tracts, I think, many years ago. I'm not really familiar with them.
I am more opposed to Protestant/Evangelical positions more than I am to Catholic positions. Many Protestant/Evangelical denominations seem to teach their members they have a Monopoly game type "Get out of Jail Free" card with Jesus and that they have a green light to sin; salvation is assured regardless.
I'm here to preach the Gospel. The Gospel is this; the Kingdom of God is coming to replace the kingdoms of men and the Government will be on the shoulder of Jesus, who is the Christ (main Ruler). Some are called to follow Christ; that is, to follow His example and walk in His footsteps. Those who overcome, as Jesus overcame. will likewise be given positions of rulership in that Government that is coming to rule on this earth. Obedience is required, and forgiveness of past sins is available.


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