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Feminism vs Fertility

American women taught to hate their uterus

by: LiberalChiRo

The Pro-Woman Manifesto:
My Fertility Is My Strength
(Men are kindly asked to stay out of this topic if their comments don't pertain to how wonderful and awesome the fertile woman is. Any negative comments will be ruthelessly attacked!)
We are women, we are incredibly sensual beings. We are intelligent, powerful, and sharp dressers! A woman has a big image she must stand up to. We sometimes break down and cry; we fight against the glass ceiling. We get scared when the world seems too much to bear; sometimes we make bad decisions.
We are women, we have a magical organ called the uterus. We also have ovaries, and breasts. We are beings made - by God or evolution or both - to provide to others. Social evolution has made it unecessary for all of us to reproduce, but almost each and every one of us has the freedom to do so if we wish.
We are women, we are fertile for most of our lives. Our fertility is our strength, not our weakness! Some of us suffer each month for this blessing, but it only makes us stronger. We endure long term pain with grace our male counterparts can only imagine.
We are women, and we do have some control over not becoming pregnant if we don't want to. We have the right to choose when and where to become pregnant. We have developed many tools throughout the centuries to control our fertility, and because of this we have grown to view our fertility as our enemy.
We are women, and we love sex! Let's not gloss that over or pretend it's untrue. Orgasm is one of the brilliant triumphs of our physical design. Sex is intrinsically linked to our fertility. We feel the biggest desire for it during our fertile weeks, and it wanes at other times.
We are women, and we can bear life through the coupling of ourselves and a man. Or a chicken baster But for most of us straight women, our children will come from the union of our bodies with that of a special man. He is special because we have chosen him out of all others to be the father of our child.
We are women, and we all know that sex can cause pregnancy. Sex is how pregnancy is supposed to happen. We are sensual, but we are also responsible. We know our bodies; we know the incredible potency of our cycles and how just one sperm can set off a cycle that brings a new child into the world.
We are women, and because this cycle of pregnancy and birth involves our bodies, we must take the utmost care to plan for it. Problems can arise, and things can go wrong. We should do all we can to be healthy and ready for pregnancy.
We are women, and we all know that sometimes, life isn't perfect. We do what we can to plan, but as the saying goes "If you want to make God (fate) laugh, make plans for the future". Sometimes, despite being as careful as we can be, we fall pregnant when we didn't plan on it.
We are women, but we know that this is not our body's fault. It is not the fault of our fertility. It is not, certainly, the fault of the child or the sperm or the egg. When we do all we can to plan and those plans fail, we simply have to adapt. The plan sometimes changes.
We are women, and we are built to carry a child, whether s/he comes when we planned him/her to or not. Our body is made to provide for them. Our body will take care of them. Our body is always ready to do what it thinks we want to do, which is make a child. Our body is not our enemy, we simply don't always agree.
We are women, and our bodies know how to care for a child best. Our body knows when to hold on, and when to let go - though sometimes it breaks our heart when it comes too soon. If we listen to our bodies, they will show us a wonderous world, a world of life-within-life. One of the most cruel things we could do would be do stop this action in a harsh, violent and unnatural way.
We are women, and our bodies are like fertile river deltas. We can put up dams to try and control the floods, but every now and then nature pulls a fast one on us. We should not slash and burn the forest just to remove unwanted life. We should not drain the wetlands for artifical purposes. Destroy the detla, and you destroy life itself. You destroy the very meaning of being.... A Woman.
We are women, and we won't listen to your nonsense any longer. You cannot tell us what to do; we listen to our bodies, our eternal creations of wisdom and sensual knowledge. Our fertility is not our enemy. It is our strength!

reply from: faithman

How nice for the scanks of the forum. Another false image of womanhood that promotes "pride" and cover up the crime of baby killing. Attack away. Slime like you can't hurt me at all with your lies and arrogance.

reply from: faithman

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
CAN YOU READ?!
That was a totally pro-life diatribe.
Could you possibly READ THE MATERIAL before you squeeze out one of your moronic comments?
(My uterus is like Faithman's skull; a small, dark, empty space devoid of life or function...)
Well I agree with the uterus part.... Your womb is a tomb, that we already knew. But killers will get theirs. If not in this life, then in the next.

reply from: faithman

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
What the HELL are you babbling about?
She posted a pro-life piece, I've never been pregnant, and you forgot to take your Aricept.
Hey! you are the one who said your womb was lifeless and dark. That describes a tomb rather well even if it doesen't contain a dead boby, or a womb child about to be killed. But it does not supprise at all that your stupid little death scank willingly ignorant scum self refuses to understand that. Blather on killer. The more you talk, the more you do my job for me. I don't have to point out what a dispicable cold blooded killer you are.

reply from: BossMomma

I don't know if I'd agree that our fertility is our pride as it takes a man to make that fertility work. Our strength comes from our ability to face life and smile, to stand strong when all others cop out and, to handle up. Many women are infertile, yet they are as strong and wonderful and, beautiful as a pregnant woman. Destroying life is disgraceful no matter the gender of the killer. Yes we are women, gateways that all new lives enter the world through, but we are more still.

reply from: BossMomma

Oh piss off you idiot.

reply from: ProInformed

Isn't it odd that abortion industry lobby groups actively promote the false and obviously anti-feminist notion that female fertility is like defect or disease that needs to be controlled by drugs, devices, and surgeries?
Even odder is how many females who believe that garbage.
And of course it's big business for the abortrion industry and the pharmaceutical industry to promote such a weird and unnatural notion.

reply from: BossMomma

Modern day feminism is a far cry from what it once was. The first feminists abhorred abortion, they did not ask to be treated as men. They asked for equality and to be respected as women. They asked for the right to vote and were beaten and jailed for such rebellion against a male dominated society. I have the utmost respect for the founding mothers of feminism, but none at all for the warped caricature it is now.

reply from: Rhiannontex

BossMomma, I totally agree with you about today's bizarre feminism. It's not for nothing that the term feminazi was coined.
Oh, and faithman? Please quit making the prolife side look bad. Honestly, I read your hate and it's almost enough to make me switch sides.

reply from: BossMomma

Indeed I'm looking forward to my tubal. Babies are wonderful, but frankly I'm done having them.

reply from: faithman

Modern day feminism is a far cry from what it once was. The first feminists abhorred abortion, they did not ask to be treated as men. They asked for equality and to be respected as women. They asked for the right to vote and were beaten and jailed for such rebellion against a male dominated society. I have the utmost respect for the founding mothers of feminism, but none at all for the warped caricature it is now.
That has been my position all along, but because I am a man I get tagged a hater. I think Feminist for life is a great group, and are the prevayers of the true message of Feminism, and honor women in spirit and truth. Most "founding mothers" were also devout christians. Things went wonky whe pagans like stienam became the mouth piece for a movement birthed from christian, life affirming faith.

reply from: BossMomma

Modern day feminism is a far cry from what it once was. The first feminists abhorred abortion, they did not ask to be treated as men. They asked for equality and to be respected as women. They asked for the right to vote and were beaten and jailed for such rebellion against a male dominated society. I have the utmost respect for the founding mothers of feminism, but none at all for the warped caricature it is now.
That has been my position all along, but because I am a man I get tagged a hater. I think Feminist for life is a great group, and are the prevayers of the true message of Feminism, and honor women in spirit and truth. Most "founding mothers" were also devout christians. Things went wonky whe pagans like stienam became the mouth piece for a movement birthed from christian, life affirming faith.
No you get tagged a hater because you hate everyone more educated than you, even pro-lifers.

reply from: faithman

Modern day feminism is a far cry from what it once was. The first feminists abhorred abortion, they did not ask to be treated as men. They asked for equality and to be respected as women. They asked for the right to vote and were beaten and jailed for such rebellion against a male dominated society. I have the utmost respect for the founding mothers of feminism, but none at all for the warped caricature it is now.
That has been my position all along, but because I am a man I get tagged a hater. I think Feminist for life is a great group, and are the prevayers of the true message of Feminism, and honor women in spirit and truth. Most "founding mothers" were also devout christians. Things went wonky whe pagans like stienam became the mouth piece for a movement birthed from christian, life affirming faith.
No you get tagged a hater because you hate everyone more educated than you, even pro-lifers.
Such a wonderful post then you go right back to lying. Show one post where I have said anything begrudging an education? You just got your panties wet because you got your bow bow spanked, and your bullying pride hurt.

reply from: BossMomma

Modern day feminism is a far cry from what it once was. The first feminists abhorred abortion, they did not ask to be treated as men. They asked for equality and to be respected as women. They asked for the right to vote and were beaten and jailed for such rebellion against a male dominated society. I have the utmost respect for the founding mothers of feminism, but none at all for the warped caricature it is now.
That has been my position all along, but because I am a man I get tagged a hater. I think Feminist for life is a great group, and are the prevayers of the true message of Feminism, and honor women in spirit and truth. Most "founding mothers" were also devout christians. Things went wonky whe pagans like stienam became the mouth piece for a movement birthed from christian, life affirming faith.
No you get tagged a hater because you hate everyone more educated than you, even pro-lifers.
Such a wonderful post then you go right back to lying. Show one post where I have said anything begrudging an education? You just got your panties wet because you got your bow bow spanked, and your bullying pride hurt.
My pride isn't hurt in the least but there is something to be said about a guy who is viewed as hateful by both sides. And, I wish you'd refrain from thinking about my panties, it's inappropriate for a child to be discussing his fantasies with a grown woman.

reply from: KaylieBee

Oh FM, don't ever change.

reply from: faithman

Oh FM, don't ever change.
No worries there scank.

reply from: CharlesD

The original post in this thread flew directly in the face of the modern feminist dogma that says a woman's fertility is something of an enemy. It reminded me of the views held by early feminists like Susan B. Anthony who fought for women's rights but were still pro life. Calling that post anything other than pro life is really pretty ignorant if you ask me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

This topic is pro-life. It is saying abortion is BAD, comparing it to environmental abuse.
There is not a single lie in the post above or in my response here. Try to tell me how the post I made promotes abortion in ANY way. Try. I dare you.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Faithman wants to hate me SO BAD that he can't even see the truth.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Also, to BossMomma:
Fertility is not our enemy, and that was my main point. Furthermore, it is not of course our ONLY strength as women, but it IS a strength we have. WE must carry the child, no one else can do that.

reply from: Cecilia

Is there something wrong -you say we are women but it's not our fault, as if that is a bad thing.
This was very interesting post to read. I read alot of stereotypes there and thought you should change we's to I's or me's instead. I like your last paragraph about not listening to any nonsense. Like the posters who believe that women believe fertility is an enemy. That is nonsense. That is not why women have abortions or use birth control. It is because they don't want kids. What is wrong with not wanting children?

reply from: BossMomma

I agree that fertility is not our enemy, I'm simply stating that it is not our defining factor. Some women can't carry a child any more than a man can for one reason or another, some have no desire to do so.

reply from: BossMomma

Say what? !
Hatred drives people away which is why people like FBoy do the unborn no good what so ever.

reply from: 4given

Hey no amount of hate speech could ever make me somehow think it was okay to kill an innocent being- much less my own or advocate that another person does.
You don't know faithman either. He has provided countless materials free of charge to anyone that has a true desire to become involved(and even those that do not). He has likely done far more for the unborn outside of a public forum, than any of those with their fingers pointing. Truth is you don't know what he has done or who he has saved. The IAAP material is throughout the country and he also has spent his fair time on the pro-life lines and behind the wheel of a Truth Truck. I am sure I can safely say that how he is perceived by anyone that threatens (in his view) the unborn right to life, is not a concern to him.

reply from: BossMomma

Hey no amount of hate speech could ever make me somehow think it was okay to kill an innocent being- much less my own or advocate that another person does.
You don't know faithman either. He has provided countless materials free of charge to anyone that has a true desire to become involved(and even those that do not). He has likely done far more for the unborn outside of a public forum, than any of those with their fingers pointing. Truth is you don't know what he has done or who he has saved. The IAAP material is throughout the country and he also has spent his fair time on the pro-life lines and behind the wheel of a Truth Truck. I am sure I can safely say that how he is perceived by anyone that threatens (in his view) the unborn right to life, is not a concern to him.
I do not threaten the unborn, nor does LCR or, CM yet he treats us like Pro-choicers. What's his excuse?

reply from: 4given

I can see his issue with LCR. I understand the history with CM.. you.. I don't quite know. You would have to ask him. Does the statement I was referring to: "..I read your hate and it's almost enough to make me switch sides." apply to you?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Is there something wrong -you say we are women but it's not our fault, as if that is a bad thing.
It's sometimes an accident. Women are often blamed (FAITHMAN) for getting pregnant as if they are at fault, and I am saying they are not. Some people DO view it as a "bad" thing.
This was very interesting post to read. I read alot of stereotypes there and thought you should change we's to I's or me's instead. I like your last paragraph about not listening to any nonsense. Like the posters who believe that women believe fertility is an enemy. That is nonsense. That is not why women have abortions or use birth control. It is because they don't want kids. What is wrong with not wanting children?
lol, It's a manifesto, you don't say "I" in a manifesto It is supposed to have a universal message that ALL women can identify with. You don't have to agree with ALL of it. There is, of course, nothing at all wrong with birth control, but some of the freaks on here would have us all believe that there is.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Say what? !
Jesus has a whole big talk about this subject, in which he states that Christians should rather want to have hot pokers run through their feet than stop a person from following God by creating stumbling blocks. They should rather want to have their feet tied to stones and dropped to the bottom of the ocean.
I think that same concept applies to being pro-life, and there are some people on this forum who cause stumbling blocks for not only newcomers, but also, as Rhiannotex mentioned, people who have been pro-life for a while. Who on earth would want to be associated with someone like them? Only another extremist.

reply from: BossMomma

I can see his issue with LCR. I understand the history with CM.. you.. I don't quite know. You would have to ask him. Does the statement I was referring to: "..I read your hate and it's almost enough to make me switch sides." apply to you?
It made me not want to be affiliated with pro-lifers and seen as a hateful bigot at one time. I was pro-choice because it was easier to just mind my own business. When I saw what a monster my pro-choice boyfriend could be it helped me remember why I had once advocated for pro-life in the first place.

reply from: 4given

Shriek! In your false confidence you are willfully blinding yourself. You haven't for a moment thought about any other being- their posts, lives or work in the pro-life field- yet you come here just months new as a reject from your choice mob family and claim to have some reasonable advice or value? *Cringe* Get over your petty games and false ego and get to work. You care about ending abortion- them get to work doing it. You come off as an arrogant twit with nothing more than a joint and a philosophy mission. Whether or not that is true of you.. well my apologies if not. I suppose we will have to wait and see how you have "helped" the pro-life cause. First you need to figure out what that means. As far as the stumbling block message, well I certainly would not desire that any of my children or their friends learned about abortion from you. From what I have read, you aren't sound enough to deliver the information properly.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I agree that fertility is not our enemy, I'm simply stating that it is not our defining factor. Some women can't carry a child any more than a man can for one reason or another, some have no desire to do so.
I never said it was our defining factor...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I can see his issue with LCR.
I'd love to know what it is.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Shriek! In your false confidence you are willfully blinding yourself. You haven't for a moment thought about any other being- their posts, lives or work in the pro-life field- yet you come here just months new as a reject from your choice mob family and claim to have some reasonable advice or value? *Cringe* Get over your petty games and false ego and get to work. You care about ending abortion- them get to work doing it. You come off as an arrogant twit with nothing more than a joint and a philosophy mission. Whether or not that is true of you.. well my apologies if not. I suppose we will have to wait and see how you have "helped" the pro-life cause. First you need to figure out what that means. As far as the stumbling block message, well I certainly would not desire that any of my children or their friends learned about abortion from you. From what I have read, you aren't sound enough to deliver the information properly.
Lol! Try reading my post again before being all "high and mighty".
Someone new, having IDEAS? Never!!! [/sarcasm]

reply from: BossMomma

I can see his issue with LCR.
I'd love to know what it is.
You're a woman for one, you were once pro-choice, you don't believe in fighting abortion with ignorance and blind hatred...need I say more?

reply from: 4given

I did try.. and read most if not all of it. New ideas? Where?
If you took your own advice and READ, you would realize there wasn't anything "high and mighty". Advice.

reply from: 4given

I can see his issue with LCR.I'd love to know what it is.
You're a woman for one, you were once pro-choice, you don't believe in fighting abortion with ignorance and blind hatred...need I say more?
Yes. You do. Or maybe you shouldn't try to elaborate on another posters issue unless necessary. *Note to self* Ignorance and blind hatred, huh? Seems there have been quite a few examples of that coming from LCR lately.. Could it be left to a matter of interpretation?

reply from: BossMomma

I can see his issue with LCR.I'd love to know what it is.
You're a woman for one, you were once pro-choice, you don't believe in fighting abortion with ignorance and blind hatred...need I say more?
Yes. You do. Or maybe you shouldn't try to elaborate on another posters issue unless necessary. *Note to self* Ignorance and blind hatred, huh? Seems there have been quite a few examples of that coming from LCR lately.. Could it be left to a matter of interpretation?
What's to interpret? Fboy hates on pro-life and pro-choice alike. Maybe once you're on the recieving end of his stupidity you'll see my point.

reply from: 4given

Hey that wasn't in reference to the post in question.. but okay. We have disagreed on some things. I understand your point I suppose, but again it had nothing to do with the post at hand.

reply from: carolemarie

Faithboy's history with me? He hates me because I had abortions and I try to listen to and care about people in crisis. He just hates me because I don't kiss his behind.
Why do you persist in defending him?
The hate he vomits out is unreal. How can you be prolife and not care about how you are treating living human beings? How can you be a Christian and call other christians and nonchristians vile names? This honors God?
This man actually defends people who kill abortion providers, says they are heros! Good heavens girl, wake up. Faithman is an embarrasment to the prolife movement, and mocks the God he claims to serve with his treatment of people.
He deserves to be banned, just as Vexing was.

reply from: faithman

Don't project your hatred on me killer. You are the one who hated 3 to death, not me. You the one who denies womb children personhood, not me. You are the one who constantly throws the womb child under your self interest bus, not me. Your heroes are baby killers, mine stopped them. All your "mercy" is lavished on murderers, and none is given to the little ones who are killed, and only your vile murderous hate for those who try and stop them. You are a murderous embasasment to humanity, womanhood, much less the so called pro-life movement. If you are the so called pro-life movement, then it is a bowel movement, and you a pile of it's results.

reply from: 4given

No. It is my understanding that you do not support personhood for the unborn, nor consider rape or incest babies to be of value. I am sure he can more eloquently describe that.
I was stating what he has done outside of the forum. I am quite sure he doesn't require it, but let the truth be told. Whether or not you have an issue or another does, he has supplied countless materials to the pro-life community free of charge. You even agreed that his (the IAAP) were favored as they were live womb images.
On that note- how can one be pro-life and not consider the man hurt by abortion or the unborn second? I try not to call others vile names and I certainly care about how living beings are treated.
I understand what is meant by that.
Sure.. And I am wishing I could return to slumber. The pro-life community is a mess. Lobotomy. Truth. I will take the true thanks.
I am sure you feel that way and if anyone, are justified in those statements. It is inappropriate the way he speaks to and about you and that has been discussed here several times as I am sure you are aware of. Irregardless, it doesn't change what he has done outside of the forum, just as your time and posts here do not fully define you.

reply from: Teresa18

One thing that frustrates me is when some pro-lifers, most often the moderate ones, point their fingers at more conservative pro-lifers and say that they are harming the cause by driving people away. Some people threaten that these pro-lifers can push fence-sitters away and even turn moderate pro-lifers themselves away. My response is that people who reject pro-life because of other pro-lifers really aren't pro-life at all. Pro-life, when it comes down to it, is more than squabbles over tactics and wounded feelings. It is about fighting for the lives of 1.3 million unborn children per year. If one is a true pro-lifer, one will know that the killing of unborn children is wrong, regardless of disagreements with other pro-lifers and strive to end it. Nothing anyone says will make one believe it is right.

reply from: BossMomma

Right..we couldn't possibly be defending ourselves from his initial attacks now could we? What do you expect us to do? Bend over and take it? I know that killing an unborn child is wrong and haven't said otherwise yet I am still under attack by f-boy's barely literate seething episodes of rage. Biased much?

reply from: ChristianLott2

No. It is my understanding that you do not support personhood for the unborn, nor consider rape or incest babies to be of value. I am sure he can more eloquently describe that.
uhoh 4given, she may duck out for a week like RML did when confronted with those accusations
I think fertility could be called a defining factor for men and women who want to have children. Makes sense. Continuing the human race is good.
Instead of bs slogans for tag lines we should agree on a pro life defining tag line, you know:
personhood: yes

reply from: CharlesD

Just to split hairs a bit, personhood is not something that we can grant to the unborn; it is something that we can recognize. We can not give them something that they already have, but we can at least recognize what already exists.

reply from: yoda

You determine which side of the abortion issue to be on by how you like the individuals on either side? What about the babies?

reply from: yoda

I agree. They are the real "feminists", not the power hungry killers.

reply from: yoda

Nothing. But not wanting them bad enough to kill them is terribly wrong.

reply from: yoda

That's a personal issue, and not one that is relevant to the unborn. How could a personal issue like that cause you to turn against the unborn?

reply from: yoda

If you truly love the idea of protecting the unborn, you would not let any stumbling block prevent you from doing all that you can to help them.
This is not a social club, and you don't have to "associate" with any prolifers you don't like. Nearly all prolifers I know of act independently, they do not worry about whether or not other prolifers like them.

reply from: yoda

And your compassion for the innocent human life being lost in the slaughter had nothing to do with it?

reply from: yoda

No, it's "self-control issues", and a belief that "some people deserve to be attacked".

reply from: yoda

Then we need more embarrassments, not more faux lifers who do nothing outside of posting on forums such as this. He actually walks the talk.

reply from: yoda

To quote Mark Crutcher, "I'm pretty sure we can defeat the proaborts, but I'm not so sure we can defeat the pro-lifers".

reply from: yoda

Perfectly well said, THANKS!

reply from: yoda

No one that I am aware of really cares how much time you spend "defending yourselves".
What I and others take exception to is your claim that those with whom you disagree tend to make YOU "less prolife and tempted to change sides".
Rage on, squabble and feud all you like, but don't claim that you will abandon the babies because of F-Man or anyone else. That makes your pro-life credentials suspect.

reply from: faithman

You determine which side of the abortion issue to be on by how you like the individuals on either side? What about the babies?
These so called pro-lifers are not so much pro-life as pro-theirownopinion. they expect us to come bow down in the temple of what they think about themselves. Quite frankly, I could care less what baby killers, bullies, and secular humanist educational mind destroyers think at all. And before you go dog piling on Yoda and 4griven, both have scolded me for my posts. The first big fuss I had when I came here was with yoda. I have really toned it down several notches because of the scolding of 4given [ a woman by the by, whom I have the deepest respect.] The problem I have with the scanks in question, is that my perception is they are a danger to womb life. Some to a lesser degree than others, but a danger never the less.

reply from: yoda

How about "pro-attention"?

reply from: carolemarie

I don't think if you are conceived by rape or incest you should be aborted. I don't think that you are without worth! That is a complete misunderstanding of my position. I just recognize that is the giant stumbling block. I am willing to allow that exception to save the other 98 percent of babies. I don't require these babies to die. And I would support personhood if the agenda didn't outlaw BC and jail women. I am totally against that. The idea of personhood is fine, it is the implementation that I have issues with.
Fboy has attacked anyone on this board who doesn't agree with him on every point. He should be banned for his constant abusive posting, or they should allow Vexing to post her hate...
What he does on this board is to just make prochoice people glad he isn't on their side, and convinces them that if he is what a prolifer is, then they don't want to be one!

reply from: carolemarie

Lot of people on this board actually do something and post are not as loony as your buddy

reply from: yoda

Personally, I don't oppose such efforts, like the recent South Dakota initiative that failed. I just see them as stepping stones to the full protection of all babies in the future. But I'm less enthusiastic about them than the ones like the Colorado personhood initiative.
And that's where we disagree. I think that personhood is way, way more important than the two issues you mention, and would never oppose personhood because of them.
Personally, I agree with Mark Crutcher when he said: "I'm not here to convert the proaborts, I'm here to defeat them". So, I really don't care why they say they don't want to "be one".
Good for them. I was talking about the big mouthed posters who do nothing but post here. But if he is "loony" as you call him (remember you DON'T CALL PEOPLE NAMES, RIGHT?), then we need a lot more "loony" prolifers out there.

reply from: faithman

No one that I am aware of really cares how much time you spend "defending yourselves".
What I and others take exception to is your claim that those with whom you disagree tend to make YOU "less prolife and tempted to change sides".
Rage on, squabble and feud all you like, but don't claim that you will abandon the babies because of F-Man or anyone else. That makes your pro-life credentials suspect.
EXACTLY!!!! Didn't know I had that much power over what people think!!!! Are they that weak minded? Are they that emotionally driven? Do they lack so much personal clarity, that their foundational values change on a whim? From what I have seen, that is exactly what we have here. A bunch of weak minded individuals who would leave you stranded in the fight because someone hurt their feelings. If something is right to me, it is right no matter the prevailing winds of everybodies opinion. Killing children is wrong. It will always be wrong, and wrong everytime in every case, no matter how many faux lifers say so to the contrary. And as long as the present themselves the enemy of the womb child, they are mine. When you personally attack the womb child with abortion, you have attacked me personally as well. Shame on you if you think for one moment that I will play "nice" with baby butchers, and those who defend them. My combat boots are strapped up tight, and if you don't think I will not march straight over the top of your baby killing behind if you get in the way of personhood for them, You are very sadly mistaken. So mouth off all you want to, it doesn't bother me in the least. It just proves to all what you truely are. A pro-death wolf in PL wool.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

If you truly love the idea of protecting the unborn, you would not let any stumbling block prevent you from doing all that you can to help them.
I'm not, which is why I have Faithman on ignore. But that doesn't make him any less reprehensible.

reply from: carolemarie

I don't even think the dude is really prolife.

reply from: yoda

Ah, but you're sure that "others" would let a personality clash turn them against the babies, right?

reply from: yoda

Then you are even, because he doesn't think you are either.

reply from: CharlesD

I'm not going to criticize the work people do outside of this forum, because many like faithman are doing great work out there in the real world and their work is effective and needed. I've done quite a bit as well. I can only speak for how people behave while here and I see a lot that I don't think is effective in this forum.
There is a lot of work that needs to be done and not everyone can do everything. There need to be people on the sidewalks, people distributing literature, people in pregnancy centers, people who can work to win others over to our side, etc. What happens if someone on here convinces a pro choicer to switch sides, and then that person who switched sides ends up being a strong advocate for the unborn and doing a lot of good work? While I am on here my goal is to present the pro life arguments in as convincing a manner as I can, but also in a way that I feel is going to keep people reading what I have to say. What good am I if half the people here put me on ignore?

reply from: faithman

I guess you werent around when my tactics "turned" Teddybearhamster to pro-life from pro-death. She hit the ground running, and got involved promoting adoption. The false conversions of late have given us a crop of 5th colum subversives, who intend to undermine the humanity of the womb child from within a "movement" that lacks the clarity to withstand them. These so called lifers equate the inconveniance of killer mom, to the interest of the womb child to live. This is comparing the deadly apples of murderers, to the oranges of life of pre-borns. They have been ignoring that for years, so it is no big woop if the do it here.

reply from: JRH

I guess you werent around when my tactics "turned" Teddybearhamster to pro-life from pro-death. She hit the ground running, and got involved promoting adoption. The false conversions of late have given us a crop of 5th colum subversives, who intend to undermine the humanity of the womb child from within a "movement" that lacks the clarity to withstand them. These so called lifers equate the inconveniance of killer mom, to the interest of the womb child to live. This is comparing the deadly apples of murderers, to the oranges of life of pre-borns. They have been ignoring that for years, so it is no big woop if the do it here.
People like you do more for the pro choice side than I ever could. Keep up the good work!

reply from: yoda

Let me fill you in on my experience in that regard. The conversion of a true prochoicer to a true prolifer is extremely rare on a forum like this. So rare, in fact, that you can count them on one hand. And as I see it, that sort of transformation probably happens internally, not as the result of any logic or documentation from us. So, like Mark says, "I'm not here to convert them, but to defeat them". And hopefully, to help other prolifers learn how to counter their lying claims at the same time.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Ah, but you're sure that "others" would let a personality clash turn them against the babies, right?
Yes, because I am not the only one who has had such sentiments. As you saw, other people have said the same exact thing. A bad attitude (YOURS) is what made me become even more vitrolically pro-choice; I searched for as many possible ways to discount you, and ended up making some of the meanest arguments I've ever made. YOU never made me even consider becoming pro-life, not for one second.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I would say I agree, because he seems to be such a parody of the "ultimate" extreme pro-lifer... but the hate in his posts is genuine.

reply from: yoda

Yes, because I am not the only one who has had such sentiments. As you saw, other people have said the same exact thing. .
But they always say it about OTHER people, never about themselves, did you notice that?
So why would someone's attitude not keep you from being prolife, but might keep "someone else"?

reply from: carolemarie

I was prochoice and now I am not. I can assure you that I changed as a result of somethings people said to me kindly.
I had an answer for hate and disrespect. But being treated kindly made a difference and earned that person the right to speak to me and for me to consider their statements.
I think it is rather shortsighted to assume that nobody will ever change. Plenty of us do.
LRC changed positions due to some rational conversations with Galen.

reply from: yoda

Pot, kettle, etc., etc., Maybe he has "self control issues"? Or maybe he thinks you deserve to be attacked?

reply from: yoda

And it had nothing to do with your desire to stop the slaughter?
Really?

reply from: carolemarie

I didn't desire to see abortion end or not end in the begining. I was for a woman's right to decide what she wanted to do either way.
What changed my mind about was getting to know some prolifers who were willing to rationally talk about abortion without calling names or ascribing evil to those who chose it. They seemed to care, so I listened to them and started questioning my viewpoint. But they were actually helping women in crisis, so I believed that they cared about them. That made a difference, how I percieved things changed by that exposure.

reply from: yoda

Let me see if I understand you.... you believed that they cared ABOUT WOMEN..... NOT about babies, right?
So now you are prolife because you care ABOUT WOMEN, NOT BABIES, is that what you are saying?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Whoops! There goes Yoda on iggy too!
Carole, I love your stories of how you came to be pro-life, because it's so much like my own.

reply from: yoda

Oh my, how will I ever live through this? Life is so cruel!!

reply from: carolemarie

Let me see if I understand you.... you believed that they cared ABOUT WOMEN..... NOT about babies, right?
So now you are prolife because you care ABOUT WOMEN, NOT BABIES, is that what you are saying?
I didn't think prolifers cared about women at all. So yes, I believed they cared about both, and that was a new idea.

reply from: yoda

And if you still believed that "prolifers" don't care about women, would you still be prochoice?

reply from: faithman

And if you still believed that "prolifers" don't care about women, would you still be prochoice?
What are you talking about? She still is prochoice, and has expressed those views several times on these boards.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I guess you werent around when my tactics "turned" Teddybearhamster to pro-life from pro-death. She hit the ground running, and got involved promoting adoption. The false conversions of late have given us a crop of 5th colum subversives, who intend to undermine the humanity of the womb child from within a "movement" that lacks the clarity to withstand them. These so called lifers equate the inconveniance of killer mom, to the interest of the womb child to live. This is comparing the deadly apples of murderers, to the oranges of life of pre-borns. They have been ignoring that for years, so it is no big woop if the do it here.
People like you do more for the pro choice side than I ever could. Keep up the good work!
It's so true. I became and even more verbally loud and "well informed" pro-choicer after meeting Yoda, and I'm sure the same thing would have happened if I'd met faithman. They just make you recoil in horror and want to be everything they are NOT!

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Let me see if I understand you.... you believed that they cared ABOUT WOMEN..... NOT about babies, right?
So now you are prolife because you care ABOUT WOMEN, NOT BABIES, is that what you are saying?
I didn't think prolifers cared about women at all. So yes, I believed they cared about both, and that was a new idea.
He's trying to get you to say you don't care about babies, basically.

reply from: faithman

Let me see if I understand you.... you believed that they cared ABOUT WOMEN..... NOT about babies, right?
So now you are prolife because you care ABOUT WOMEN, NOT BABIES, is that what you are saying?
I didn't think prolifers cared about women at all. So yes, I believed they cared about both, and that was a new idea.
He's trying to get you to say you don't care about babies, basically.
Basically, we already knew that.

reply from: faithman

I guess you werent around when my tactics "turned" Teddybearhamster to pro-life from pro-death. She hit the ground running, and got involved promoting adoption. The false conversions of late have given us a crop of 5th colum subversives, who intend to undermine the humanity of the womb child from within a "movement" that lacks the clarity to withstand them. These so called lifers equate the inconveniance of killer mom, to the interest of the womb child to live. This is comparing the deadly apples of murderers, to the oranges of life of pre-borns. They have been ignoring that for years, so it is no big woop if the do it here.
People like you do more for the pro choice side than I ever could. Keep up the good work!
It's so true. I became and even more verbally loud and "well informed" pro-choicer after meeting Yoda, and I'm sure the same thing would have happened if I'd met faithman. They just make you recoil in horror and want to be everything they are NOT!
Well you don't have to worry about that. You are no baby defender, and probly never will be.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
CAN YOU READ?!
That was a totally pro-life diatribe.
Could you possibly READ THE MATERIAL before you squeeze out one of your moronic comments?
(My uterus is like Faithman's skull; a small, dark, empty space devoid of life or function...)
Did I post my lol at this yet? hahah XD I hope your vagina can crush skulls, too! Your uterus isn't totally empty; it's sometimes filled with red useless mush, just like faithboy's brain... Except yours has more potential!

reply from: BossMomma

Oh my, how will I ever live through this? Life is so cruel!!
Yeah, I'm sure your crushed..

reply from: Nulono

Women are awesome, fertile or not.

reply from: yoda

It's so true. I became and even more verbally loud and "well informed" pro-choicer after meeting Yoda, and I'm sure the same thing would have happened if I'd met faithman. They just make you recoil in horror and want to be everything they are NOT!
Wow..... you've got F-Man and I on iggy, and you're carrying on a conversation with a certifiable lunatic..... yeah, that's real revealing....

reply from: Rosalie

I can't take seriously anyone that says things like, "American women taught to hate their uterus." Because this is only the brainwashed pro-life propaganda, nothing else. Least of all a manifesto. A part of me believed that you were still thinking for yourself instead of succumbing into the nonsensical, hateful propaganda devoid of all the facts and any kind of open-mindedness. Guess I was wrong.
Could you please explain to me what does forcing you to have an abortion have to do with being pro-choice? Which part of pro-choice do you not understand?
It seems like NONE of you here understand the concept of pro-choice. Well and if you do, then maybe you are not qualified to speak about it at all.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, I'm sure your crushed..
If you ask real nice, maybe she will put you on iggy, too.

reply from: Cecilia

I can't take seriously anyone that says things like, "American women taught to hate their uterus." Because this is only the brainwashed pro-life propaganda, nothing else. Least of all a manifesto. A part of me believed that you were still thinking for yourself instead of succumbing into the nonsensical, hateful propaganda devoid of all the facts and any kind of open-mindedness. Guess I was wrong.
Could you please explain to me what does forcing you to have an abortion have to do with being pro-choice? Which part of pro-choice do you not understand?
It seems like NONE of you here understand the concept of pro-choice. Well and if you do, then maybe you are not qualified to speak about it at all.
I agree with you Rosalie. I also think it's silly to believe women are taught to hate their fertility. They dont' hate their fertility, they just don't want children.

reply from: Cecilia

Then we need more embarrassments, not more faux lifers who do nothing outside of posting on forums such as this. He actually walks the talk.
And he is a tremendous jerk. That should tell you something.

reply from: carolemarie

Let me see if I understand you.... you believed that they cared ABOUT WOMEN..... NOT about babies, right?
So now you are prolife because you care ABOUT WOMEN, NOT BABIES, is that what you are saying?
I didn't think prolifers cared about women at all. So yes, I believed they cared about both, and that was a new idea.
He's trying to get you to say you don't care about babies, basically.
Well, I care about babies AND their mothers, I am prolife but I don't hate people for holding a different POV

reply from: BossMomma

I can't take seriously anyone that says things like, "American women taught to hate their uterus." Because this is only the brainwashed pro-life propaganda, nothing else. Least of all a manifesto. A part of me believed that you were still thinking for yourself instead of succumbing into the nonsensical, hateful propaganda devoid of all the facts and any kind of open-mindedness. Guess I was wrong.
Could you please explain to me what does forcing you to have an abortion have to do with being pro-choice? Which part of pro-choice do you not understand?
It seems like NONE of you here understand the concept of pro-choice. Well and if you do, then maybe you are not qualified to speak about it at all.
I understood the concept, but when a pro-choice advocate can view his unborn as disposable when faced with the possibility that the born child may have challenges, it makes you think, or at least it made me think and it made me question my views. A pro-life advocate would never have viewed his child as disposable.

reply from: BossMomma

Yeah, I'm sure your crushed..
If you ask real nice, maybe she will put you on iggy, too.
Is the booze any good in Iggy land? I figure a shot of virtual whiskey wont hurt the baby none.

reply from: nancyu

Ah, but you're sure that "others" would let a personality clash turn them against the babies, right?
Yes, because I am not the only one who has had such sentiments. As you saw, other people have said the same exact thing. A bad attitude (YOURS) is what made me become even more vitrolically pro-choice; I searched for as many possible ways to discount you, and ended up making some of the meanest arguments I've ever made. YOU never made me even consider becoming pro-life, not for one second.
Well if Yoda didn't convince you to consider becoming pro life, then there is no hope for you.

reply from: nancyu

Oh my, how will I ever live through this? Life is so cruel!!

reply from: nancyu

ALL women? I, for one, didn't relate, you lost me at the chicken baster. What are you some kind of perv?

A "freak" is someone who thinks killing their children is okay. "pro abort freak" works just as well.
What is birth control?
It's preventing a new human person's life from forming, and sometimes ending a life which has already formed. It's deciding who gets to live, and who doesn't. Yeah, there is something wrong with that. It's selfish and hoggish, and often murderous.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Nope.
Contraception - like NFP - prevents conception so you can hump, hump, hump away without creating an unwanted pregnancy!
Bingo ^^ There's nothing wrong with PLANNING when you want to become a PARENT.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

ALL women? I, for one, didn't relate, you lost me at the chicken baster. What are you some kind of perv?
You've never heard of that? What, do you live under a rock?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Ah, but you're sure that "others" would let a personality clash turn them against the babies, right?
Yes, because I am not the only one who has had such sentiments. As you saw, other people have said the same exact thing. A bad attitude (YOURS) is what made me become even more vitrolically pro-choice; I searched for as many possible ways to discount you, and ended up making some of the meanest arguments I've ever made. YOU never made me even consider becoming pro-life, not for one second.
Well if Yoda didn't convince you to consider becoming pro life, then there is no hope for you.
Who actually helped me a lot was someone who hasn't posted on here in a long time. He did it through kindness.

reply from: yoda

It tells me that you have nothing but a foul mouth, and he is one of the good guys trying to save babies.

reply from: yoda

And I see that you are going to ignore my question, so I'll ask it again:
IF you still thought today that all prolifers care "only about the baby", would you still be prochoice today?

reply from: yoda

The booze is top notch here!

reply from: yoda

And she never did answer the question I asked her. I asked her why she "could not be made prochoice by bad prolifers, but others could". I guess she just didn't have an answer to that one, so she put me on iggy.
Oh, the ignominy of it all! (Like that word?)

reply from: yoda

Whoever that was, they left before the job was done.

reply from: carolemarie

And I see that you are going to ignore my question, so I'll ask it again:
IF you still thought today that all prolifers care "only about the baby", would you still be prochoice today?
You mean if the people I met had been like Faithboy? I never would have listened to them or anything they said. It would have made me more prochoice at that time. I certainly wouldn't have questioned my assumptions....

reply from: 4given

I agree. They are the real "feminists", not the power hungry killers.
I do as well and am blessed to have acquaintances that are members. True feminism has to do with respect for one's body- especially the womb.

reply from: 4given

No, it's "self-control issues", and a belief that "some people deserve to be attacked". Ahhh! *head smack*. I suppose we should be more delicate with her then, right? Not actually disagree or anything. She may lash out on some unfortunate person that can't be placed in "iggy land."
Say like one of those autistic children she had to wrestle for nap time..

reply from: 4given

How about "pro-attention"?
I happen to agree that the term fits some here. I will have to share it with my son who also made that observation.

reply from: 4given

Oh my, how will I ever live through this? Life is so cruel!!
Now, now.. We will get through it. It would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic.. Wait it is amusing.

reply from: 4given

Whoever that was, they left before the job was done.
Ahh.. the calm without Vernon..

reply from: BossMomma

I agree. They are the real "feminists", not the power hungry killers.
I do as well and am blessed to have acquaintances that are members. True feminism has to do with respect for one's body- especially the womb.
That it does, too many misguided feminists do their damndest to be men when what they should be doing is being proud of being women and being proud of all that women can accomplish. In my opinion honor and grace has always been more important than dominance and brutality.

reply from: faithman

I agree. They are the real "feminists", not the power hungry killers.
I do as well and am blessed to have acquaintances that are members. True feminism has to do with respect for one's body- especially the womb.
That it does, too many misguided feminists do their damndest to be men when what they should be doing is being proud of being women and being proud of all that women can accomplish. In my opinion honor and grace has always been more important than dominance and brutality.
On that one, we most assuredly agree.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

And I see that you are going to ignore my question, so I'll ask it again:
IF you still thought today that all prolifers care "only about the baby", would you still be prochoice today?
You mean if the people I met had been like Faithboy? I never would have listened to them or anything they said. It would have made me more prochoice at that time. I certainly wouldn't have questioned my assumptions....
Exactly! I think that's what happened to me finally when I met NICE pro-lifers. I was suddenly able to question my own assumptions, see pro-lifers as actual people instead of hateful, women hating religious psychos, and truly carry on a dialogue with them.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Nancy will tell you that NFP isn't contraception.
Apparently contraception is for wh**es, while good girls use NFP.
(Don't ask. I don't understand it either...)
Lmao. Contraception is one of pro-life's biggest allies imo.

reply from: BossMomma

I agree. They are the real "feminists", not the power hungry killers.
I do as well and am blessed to have acquaintances that are members. True feminism has to do with respect for one's body- especially the womb.
That it does, too many misguided feminists do their damndest to be men when what they should be doing is being proud of being women and being proud of all that women can accomplish. In my opinion honor and grace has always been more important than dominance and brutality.
On that one, we most assuredly agree.
OMG! <falls over in shock>

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Whoever that was, they left before the job was done.
Ahh.. the calm without Vernon..
It was Galen. He/she really helped me a lot in the beginning.

reply from: yoda

No, I mean "IF you still thought today that all prolifers care "only about the baby", would you still be prochoice today?"
Do you have a yes or no answer to that question, or not?

reply from: yoda

Well, I'm glad you agree with her on THAT question, but how about the one I actually asked?
Would you still be proabort if you still thought that all prolifers only cared about the baby?
Yes or no, please?

reply from: yoda

Mary has stayed in touch. She says her health is much better.

reply from: faithman

No, I mean "IF you still thought today that all prolifers care "only about the baby", would you still be prochoice today?"
Do you have a yes or no answer to that question, or not?
Let me help you out there. She still is pro-choice. She may have narrowed her choice a bit, but pro-kill the womb child just the same.

reply from: carolemarie

No, I mean "IF you still thought today that all prolifers care "only about the baby", would you still be prochoice today?"
Do you have a yes or no answer to that question, or not?
I have no idea if something else would have caused me to question my beliefs. Most of us have a world view that undergirds our opinions. My world view was that there were two kinds of people in the world, the ones who got scr*wed and the ones who did the scr*wing. I wanted to be in the former category. Protect and lookout for yourself.

reply from: yoda

That wasn't the question either. Shall we try again?
You said that when you were prochoice you thought that all prolifers cared only about the baby.
So, if that opinion had never changed, would that have caused you to stay prochoice?
In other words, is that really the reason why you were prochoice to begin with?

reply from: faithman

No, I mean "IF you still thought today that all prolifers care "only about the baby", would you still be prochoice today?"
Do you have a yes or no answer to that question, or not?
I have no idea if something else would have caused me to question my beliefs. Most of us have a world view that undergirds our opinions. My world view was that there were two kinds of people in the world, the ones who got scr*wed and the ones who did the scr*wing. I wanted to be in the former category. Protect and lookout for yourself.
Was there alot of screwing going on down on your corner?

reply from: carolemarie

That wasn't the question either. Shall we try again?
You said that when you were prochoice you thought that all prolifers cared only about the baby.
So, if that opinion had never changed, would that have caused you to stay prochoice?
In other words, is that really the reason why you were prochoice to begin with?
Yes, I thought women were the ones affected so they should make the decision that gave them the best possible life.

reply from: carolemarie

Faithmam
Shut up. Just leave me alone. Use the ignore button but keep your comments to yourself.

reply from: faithman

You could have done the same a long time ago. But you come here, brag about killing 3, then call us haters because we believe that killers of the womb child should meet the same justice as the killer of the born child. You even vowed to fight person hood if it meant women go to jail. Now you say that the killer of her born child should go to jail. So it really isn't about women going to jail, you believe just the women who murder by abortion shouldn't go to jail. Then you wonder why we doubt that you are pro-life. Then you use pronouns for women as insults against me, and have the audasity to call me the woman hater. I have never generally insulted women like that as a whole, I only single out those who kill their pre-born children or advocate it. It is obvious you have no repect for yourself, or women as a whole, nor most assurredly the pre-born child. You have talked in sssssooo many circles, that you can't help but bite your own behind. It would be laughable, if it were not so sad and pathetic for you, and tragic for the womb child. I don't hate you as you have accused me of. I pity you as one confused sick puppy. But I will not allow myself the luxury of indulging those emotions. I am the servant of the womb child, and have dedicated my life to fighting their enemies. Reguardles whether you have the courage or capasity or clarity to see that you are the deadly enemy of the womb child, by word and action you have proven to be just that. And as long as you present yourself to be their enemy, you are mine as well. It is not what I wish, nor do I enjoy it. But it is what it is. And I could care less what you, or anybody else thinks about it. My loyalty is to the pre-born. Not some inept "movement" that exalts killers as heros like main stream "pro-life" seems to do. Any insult you want to throw my way, I will wear as a badge of honor. It lets the world know that I am not numbered with hateful killers like you.

reply from: carolemarie

You could have done the same a long time ago. But you come here, brag about killing 3, then call us haters because we believe that killers of the womb child should meet the same justice as the killer of the born child. You even vowed to fight person hood if it meant women go to jail. Now you say that the killer of her born child should go to jail. So it really isn't about women going to jail, you believe just the women who murder by abortion shouldn't go to jail. Then you wonder why we doubt that you are pro-life. Then you use pronouns for women as insults against me, and have the audasity to call me the woman hater. I have never generally insulted women like that as a whole, I only single out those who kill their pre-born children or advocate it. It is obvious you have no repect for yourself, or women as a whole, nor most assurredly the pre-born child. You have talked in sssssooo many circles, that you can't help but bite your own behind. It would be laughable, if it were not so sad and pathetic for you, and tragic for the womb child. I don't hate you as you have accused me of. I pity you as one confused sick puppy. But I will not allow myself the luxury of indulging those emotions. I am the servant of the womb child, and have dedicated my life to fighting their enemies. Reguardles whether you have the courage or capasity or clarity to see that you are the deadly enemy of the womb child, by word and action you have proven to be just that. And as long as you present yourself to be their enemy, you are mine as well. It is not what I wish, nor do I enjoy it. But it is what it is. And I could care less what you, or anybody else thinks about it. My loyalty is to the pre-born. Not some inept "movement" that exalts killers as heros like main stream "pro-life" seems to do. Any insult you want to throw my way, I will wear as a badge of honor. It lets the world know that I am not numbered with hateful killers like you.
LOL! I just mistyped on your screen name, it wasn't deliberate.
I came here and told the truth on my feelings on abortion. I can't tell the truth and leave out the fact that once i thought abortion was okay and had them.
I don't think it does any good to want to jail women who have abortions. It is pointless. Most of them are victims themselves. Making performing an abortion a crime would end abortion. Then jail those who perform them.
I have spent over a decade of my life sidewalk counseling and helping women choose life, so don't tell me that I am not prolife! I don't have to agree with your extreme viewpoints to be prolife.
You are doubleminded in that you applaud those who kill abortion providers. That is a pro-death viewpoint and evil. You know the abortion provider is a human being, that killing the abortion provider is against the law, and yet you applaud those who do it.
I work to help women and their babies and I will continue to do that. I just don't think I am better than them, and I realize that unless I am willing to help them I have no right to tell them what they should do.
Love is the weapon God authorized for us to use, not condemnation shame or guilt.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Love - and the truth - shall set us free.

reply from: yoda

Yes, I thought women were the ones affected so they should make the decision that gave them the best possible life.
What does that have to do with the question I asked?
I asked if the attitude of prolifers (only caring about the baby) was what made you prochoice in the first place?
Am I not being clear enough?

reply from: yoda

Horray Ignore!!
Yeah, it's wonderful, but it works best when the one who is irritated uses it, not the one who is doing the irritating.
In other words, carole, why don't you put him on iggy?

reply from: faithman

Horray Ignore!!
Yeah, it's wonderful, but it works best when the one who is irritated uses it, not the one who is doing the irritating.
In other words, carole, why don't you put him on iggy?
Are you suggesting I am irritating? I am a nice guy. Just ask me I will tell you.

reply from: yoda

Why hello yes, you are. But then, so am I. Personally, I'm proud to be irritating to some posters, what about you?

reply from: faithman

I thought i was being instrumental in their education, not an irritant. Maybe some reaccessment in self image is called for here? Just what does it feel like to be an irritant to pro-death scum baggs?

reply from: yoda

Excellent....... really top rate! Or is that "top drawer"?

reply from: Rosalie

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.

reply from: faithman

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: ProInformed

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
Yea, pro-aborts like to pretend there's no such thing as adoption...
Then they pretend to not get the connection between those who kill their babies before birth and those who kill their babies after birth - BOTH preborn and already born babies WILL BE loved and cared for if given up for adoption - there is NO EXCUSE for anybody to kill babies and children just because they personally can't handle caring for them.

reply from: faithman

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
Yea, pro-aborts like to pretend there's no such thing as adoption...
Then they pretend to not get the connection between those who kill their babies before birth and those who kill their babies after birth - BOTH preborn and already born babies WILL BE loved and cared for if given up for adoption - there is NO EXCUSE for anybody to kill babies and children just because they personally can't handle caring for them.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: Rosalie

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
That's a PARENTING decision, not reproductive decision. There are two reproductive decisions - to continue the pregnancy or to terminate it.

reply from: Rosalie

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
Yea, pro-aborts like to pretend there's no such thing as adoption...
Then they pretend to not get the connection between those who kill their babies before birth and those who kill their babies after birth - BOTH preborn and already born babies WILL BE loved and cared for if given up for adoption - there is NO EXCUSE for anybody to kill babies and children just because they personally can't handle caring for them.
False.
And YOU call yourself "Pro-Informed". HAHAHA.

reply from: ProInformed

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
Yea, pro-aborts like to pretend there's no such thing as adoption...
Then they pretend to not get the connection between those who kill their babies before birth and those who kill their babies after birth - BOTH preborn and already born babies WILL BE loved and cared for if given up for adoption - there is NO EXCUSE for anybody to kill babies and children just because they personally can't handle caring for them.
False.
And YOU call yourself "Pro-Informed". HAHAHA.
Um so are you now trying to pretend that the adoption option doesn't exist?
Or that it's OK to kill babies, that others can and would care for, just because the bio mother can't or won't?
What specifically are you pretending is "false"?

reply from: BossMomma

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
Yea, pro-aborts like to pretend there's no such thing as adoption...
Then they pretend to not get the connection between those who kill their babies before birth and those who kill their babies after birth - BOTH preborn and already born babies WILL BE loved and cared for if given up for adoption - there is NO EXCUSE for anybody to kill babies and children just because they personally can't handle caring for them.
False.
And YOU call yourself "Pro-Informed". HAHAHA.
Um so are you now trying to pretend that the adoption option doesn't exist?
Or that it's OK to kill babies, that others can and would care for, just because the bio mother can't or won't?
What specifically are you pretending is "false"?
Adoption exists but it has nothing to do with the unborn, a woman has to be willing to give birth first. Once birth occurs reproduction has run it's course and now the only options left are parenting options, that is what Rosalie is saying.

reply from: faithman

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I am, and have always been, grateful and happy to be a woman. My job as a mother is the most important thing I have ever done in my life, and I am proud and humbled that God chose to give me my children. There has never been a day in my life when I felt otherwise. I am a mother to the extent that I have helped to raise some of my sons' friends and I love them dearly. When they call me "Mom", I know that I did the right thing.
Hate my uterus or my body or my gender? NEVER. They are all gifts from God for which I am eternally grateful.
And why on earth would I ever want to be a man? Men will never know the joy of having a baby grow inside them, the thrill of giving birth to children and the rewarding, humbling experience of raising those children to adulthood. Yes, I do work which was once solely the province of males, but I do something I dearly love and find quite enjoyable. How many people are that lucky?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It is better to have an abortion if the woman does not feel like she can take proper care of her mentally-challenged child or cannot properly love him/her than have the baby and resent every minute of her/his existence.
WTF? It's called ADOPTION.
That's a PARENTING decision, not reproductive decision. There are two reproductive decisions - to continue the pregnancy or to terminate it.
If you are pregnant, you have already reproduced. You are a mother.

reply from: carolemarie

What is a prolife hippy?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

A peaceful pro-lifer who does not believe in being mean to women or pro-choicers. They aren't our enemies, man! Peace and love will win women (and men) over to the side of pro-life.

reply from: yoda

The only thing that will "win women and men over" to the side of pro-life is for them to open their eyes, their minds, and their hearts to the horror that they are supporting in the name of "freedom". And being friends with us is not a prerequisite to that, nor even necessarily something that will speed the process along.


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