Home - List All Discussions

What can we do?

by: Gerald

What can we really do that will actually reduce abortions?

reply from: carolemarie

Help women
Volunteer at the local pregnancy help center, donate to them. Get some guys togeher who will work on single moms cars for free....help with home repairs, be a big brother or sister....
Think creatively!
The biggest barrier is the lack of help and support, the need for financial help and emotional support....
help with diapers, food cards, ect....

reply from: churchmouse

Educate....educate....educate.
From elementary school through high school teach children that the life in the womb deserves personhood. Teach them the things that PP won't....fetal development. Let them know that sure they have the legal choice to abort, but that abort really means kill. Allow speakers to come into the classroom (age appropriate of course) to talk about everything from pregnancy and its options to adoption, crisis pregnancy centers, women who have had and suffered from abortion, and the hazards that can result. Kids should see films and pictures of the unborn in the womb.
Kids need to know the truth. And the truth is that there are more options than abortion. There are places they can go for help.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Provide good information to people about abstinence and birth control in order to REDUCE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES! The fewer crisis pregnancies, the fewer abortions. We need to find a way to avoid problem pregnancies in any way possible.

reply from: ProInformed

In addition to the very important suggestions that have already been posted:
Contact your representatives in congress to educate them about abortion, abortion-related legislation, and in what way you want them to represent you as a citizen in their state/district. Don't assume they already know the facts or that their minds are made up. They are supposed to represent YOU.
Contact pro-life groups to join, get on their mailing list, attend their meetings, so you will be alerted to opportunites to get involved in specific activities to help save babies and mothers from the abortion industry.
LEARN all you can (do internet searches) about abortion, fetal development, the abortion industry, abortion complications that women suffer, abortion-related legislation, and then encourage everyone else you know to learn too.
CHALLENGE choicers to stop defending the status quo and the abortion industry no-questions-asked; point out to them that when they ignore, or defend, women being pressured and lied to in order to get them to abort, they are not really pro-choice, but pro-abortion. Tel THEM to contact their 'pro-choice' leaders and groups to challenge them to really be pro-choice instead of pro-abortion.
Write letters-to-the-editor to point out that obama is already exposing that he is NOT a moderate or pro-choice as he claimed during his campaign - that he is in fact a pro-abort extremist who is not even trying to hide that fact anymore with his FIRST actions as president-elect being extremely pro-abort.
Exercise your right to free speech ASAP, speak up against abortion AND against media bias and any attempts to deny citizens the REAL rights (free speech, free press, 2nd amendment right, freedom of religion).

reply from: Beprolifewithme

IMO, birth control isn't a very good option to offer.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

IMO, birth control isn't a very good option to offer.
Why on earth not? There are many methods and at least ONE of them should be acceptable to anyone. NFP? That's birth control.

reply from: nancyu

I think it is strange that anyone thinks our goal is to "reduce" the number of abortions. As though 2000 slaughtered children would be more acceptable than 3000. We can't stop all abortions any more than we can stop all murders. But we can show people that it isn't acceptable (you don't kill babies) it isn't moral (read your Bible) and it isn't legal (read your Constitution).

reply from: Gerald

My point is that I don't believe the answer is legislation.
All legislation will do at this point is stoke the fire and continue the war into the next battle......etc.
People that want abortions, will still get them. In our wonderful country, someone will come up with a creative way to skirt whatever laws are put in place. I can see it now, cruises to international waters, bus trips to the nearest liberal state or Canadian or Mexican abortion clinics. Or nearest Indian reservation.....etc.
That is why I have always viewed the legislation approach as a waste of time or an unnecessary war. What a waste of time, money and effort.
If I can do something that saves a life, then I am all for it.
A big thank you to the folks that made meaningful suggestions. I appreciate it.
But I guess it serves one purpose, waging this war makes people feel good. It makes them feel like they are doing something useful, fighting battle after battle... on and on. What an endless and useless endeavor.

reply from: Witness

So, you're saying that we shouldn't even try to save the children? You must be a proabort troll in sheeps clothing.
Fighting for what you believe in is inherently worthwhile. I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe that when God created us, He intended for us to protect the innocent. Not taking this stance, for me, would be a sin.
I think you just wanted to see who you could discourage.
Troll!

reply from: cracrat

No it's not. I'm fairly sure the Nazi party believed in what they were fighting for, the same could be said for Al-Qaeda, the IRA, FARC and a whole host of other disreputable organisations. Fighting for what you believe in is only worthwhile if you manage to win and make sure that history records your struggle appropriately.

reply from: cracrat

My point is that I don't believe the answer is legislation.
All legislation will do at this point is stoke the fire and continue the war into the next battle......etc.
People that want abortions, will still get them. In our wonderful country, someone will come up with a creative way to skirt whatever laws are put in place. I can see it now, cruises to international waters, bus trips to the nearest liberal state or Canadian or Mexican abortion clinics. Or nearest Indian reservation.....etc.
That is why I have always viewed the legislation approach as a waste of time or an unnecessary war. What a waste of time, money and effort.
If I can do something that saves a life, then I am all for it.
A big thank you to the folks that made meaningful suggestions. I appreciate it.
But I guess it serves one purpose, waging this war makes people feel good. It makes them feel like they are doing something useful, fighting battle after battle... on and on. What an endless and useless endeavor.
If you're not careful Gerald, you'll come across as someone who's actually thought this problem through and determined what is most likely to do the most good for the most people whilst still being achievable. Neither side in this argument likes such people.

reply from: churchmouse

Making it illegal would make the biggest impact. I do not believe women would resort to extreme measures like clotheshangers. They didn't before Roe and they wouldn't if we made abortion illegal. What would happen is that you would see a decline in STD's and abortions. Woman (men too) would take more responsiblity for their actions and would think twice before engaging in sex.
A few maybe. But if we went after the abortionist like we do the drug dealer less physicians would do them. Women would have their children.
No such thing as an unwanted baby. Someone in the world would want a baby, even an imperfect one.
Should we tell the rapist his actions are wrong? Should we tell the child pornographer it's wrong? How about the drug dealer? How about the man abusing his wife? They obviously think the acts they perform are ok. Why are these acts illegal? How dare we impose our morality on these people. Right?
It has been proven by scientists that life starts at conception. The life in the womb is human, and it is NOT PART OF THE WOMAN. It may be inside her body but it came by her INVITATION. SHE INVITED IT IN. The heart is beating as early as 20 days. This is human life. Our goverment has made killing unborns legal. It shoulld not be the right of anyone to kill something that has no chance to defend itself. Mass murder has happened every year since 1973 sanctioned by our government.
Gerald you call our country wonderful? How so? I suppose in many ways we are, but if we as a nation can condone an act such as abortion on demand for any reason, how can we be wonderful? I wonder how God in heaven could even bless us as a nation for doing such evil ungodly acts. We are a sinful nation that passes laws to protect the deviant. We no longer try to protect the innocent.

reply from: Rosalie

From all that is going on around here, one would think that the concept of planned and/or wanted children is one pro-lifers are not familiar/comfortable with at all.

reply from: carolemarie

It would be nice if we lived in a world where no woman thought that abortion was their best choice, where no baby was conceived that wasn't loved and wanted and where children were celebrated for being the amazing people they are!
But until that time, I will work to help women have real options and real hope when facing an untimely pregnancy, and I will work to help women support their born children and celebrate and love on all the children I get to meet. Wouldn't it be cool if everyone would do that?

reply from: scopia19822

"IMO, birth control isn't a very good option to offer."
I think that in sex ed class the emphasis should be on SELF control, not birth control.

reply from: Gerald

So, you're saying that we shouldn't even try to save the children? You must be a proabort troll in sheeps clothing.
Fighting for what you believe in is inherently worthwhile. I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe that when God created us, He intended for us to protect the innocent. Not taking this stance, for me, would be a sin.
I think you just wanted to see who you could discourage.
Troll!
Wow, I think you deserve a prize for putting words in my mouth that I never said or even thought. Anyone with half a brain could see that what I meant is that there are far more effective methods than waging a war, a war that I am convinced will be endless and it will continue on and on, as long as there are fools to keep fueling the battle.
Call me a troll...... whatever makes you happy, that is the easy road.
But I suggest that you take the harder road..... and really evaluate the efficacy of what you support. If you can objectively say that you really think legislation will be effective, then so be it. I am merely saying I believe that legislation is a waste of time and has only one real outcome, and that is to continue the war.
You appear to be happy with the "we can win a battle" approach. I want to win the war, not just one battle.

reply from: Gerald

Now that is my kind of gal. Someone that might actually have a real impact on reducing abortions and changing attitudes and ways of thinking.... I love it.

reply from: Gerald

I bet you would not say that to the KKK members....LOL.
What about the Fred Phelps gang. Would you encourage them to keep fighting for what they believe too? What about the satanist? The list goes on and on.
It is easier for you to put down others than to take a serious look at your own actions and motives. I know, I feel for you. I understand how painful it can be to realize that many of your actions have been misguided.

reply from: Banned Member

Fathers need to be fathers as much as men need to be men. Women cannot be used, nor should they allow themselves to be used as sexual play things only to be discarded after the "relationship" has become boring or some new thing has come along to capture the man's interest. Women must be mothers and realize that their sexuality is for procreation purposes as much as a man's and never be divorced from loving lifetime human relationships. Women must and should demand respect from men; respect in the form of patient relationships that do not force sexual activity as an expression of genuine affection or as a replacement for real love. Men and wome together need to understand and respect and first accept that sex belongs in the context of a loving and mutually respectful long term committed relationship.
Society and culture has reduced sexual activity to the level of entertainment or recreation and it is children both born and unborn who pay the price for this wreckless behavior. Children, if they are not aborted, often grow up not knowing one parent or another or are raised by third parties, and while those providing care may be very loving, still are not the original family that would have raised them. If only more families could democstrate that unselfish sense of community and family. Unfortunately there are not enough families who can raise an unwanted children properly, or there are others who simply do not posess the material means to raise an unwanted child. However, under no condition is death preferrable to life. Any life is worthwhile regardless of the environment that that child may be raised in.
No society if it desires to lay claim to human compassion as a virtue can simply dispose of unwanted children through the practice of abortion as though these human lives were only some kind of residual bi-product of excessive casual sexual living. All human life must be welcomed and viewed as posessing the full equal right to live as any other person born in any other kind of family or circumstance. Abortion is simply a violent and wanton disposal of life for expediancies sake and with every abortion devalues each and every human life by virtue of marking human life as negotiable in it's worth.
What can we do? Alaways, always speak the truth fearlessly, everywhere and anywhere in all circumstances! Defend the unborn with the written and spoken word, prayer and human intercession and intervention. Make all you encounters with other people witness to the value and worth of every human life, most especially and always the unborn. Always give witness to the unborn. Be their voice for those who have not listened or for those who have hardened their hearts to listening to the truth. And always ignore the naysayers who say that nothing can be done and rebuke those who claim abortion as a right! Life and truth can and will prevail!

reply from: LiberalChiRo

This has always been my thought on abortion as well, even when I was a pro-choice. I wanted to see abortion become obsolete.

reply from: Nulono

You don't even know what Satanism is, do you?

reply from: Gerald

from dictionary.com. exactly what I thought it was LOL
Satanism
- noun
1. the worship of Satan or the powers of evil.
2. a travesty of Christian rites in which Satan is worshiped.
3. diabolical or satanic disposition, behavior, or activity.

reply from: ProInformed

Making it illegal would make the biggest impact. I do not believe women would resort to extreme measures like clotheshangers. They didn't before Roe and they wouldn't if we made abortion illegal. What would happen is that you would see a decline in STD's and abortions. Woman (men too) would take more responsiblity for their actions and would think twice before engaging in sex.
Plus there would be FAR less pressure put on women to get an illegal abortion than there currently is to get a so-called 'safe' legal abortion.
And abortionists would not be able to advertise openly and the powerful abortion industry lobby groups (that pose as 'pro-choice/pro-woman') will have less influence on politicians, judges, the old media, and in the government schools system.

reply from: nancyu

Here is a creative idea that will really help women. Start by teaching them that they are not helpless.
I think this was the goal of early feminism, but it got twisted and contorted into "feel sorry for me because I am a woman, and give me every thing I want. And don't make me do anything I don't want to do. (like dishes, house cleaning, or having babies)" I thought feminism was supposed to be about equality, but has turned into a fight for supremacy.

reply from: nancyu

My point is that I don't believe the answer is legislation.
All legislation will do at this point is stoke the fire and continue the war into the next battle......etc.
People that want abortions, will still get them. In our wonderful country, someone will come up with a creative way to skirt whatever laws are put in place. I can see it now, cruises to international waters, bus trips to the nearest liberal state or Canadian or Mexican abortion clinics. Or nearest Indian reservation.....etc.
That is why I have always viewed the legislation approach as a waste of time or an unnecessary war. What a waste of time, money and effort.
If I can do something that saves a life, then I am all for it.
A big thank you to the folks that made meaningful suggestions. I appreciate it.
But I guess it serves one purpose, waging this war makes people feel good. It makes them feel like they are doing something useful, fighting battle after battle... on and on. What an endless and useless endeavor.
If you're not careful Gerald, you'll come across as someone who's actually thought this problem through and determined what is most likely to do the most good for the most people whilst still being achievable. Neither side in this argument likes such people.
I agree with you Gerald to a point. For one thing, I think abortion is already illegal(!!), because unborn children are already persons (!!). I don't think we need more laws. We've already got two that everyone seems to have forgotten about:
1.) Thou Shalt Not Murder
2.) The 14th Amendment to the Constitution: No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The war is already here, too, whether you like it or not Gerald. When FOCA is signed into law, it will send more of (MY) money into the hands of Planned Parenthood, and that pisses me off. I don't want MY money to pay for killing other people's children. They want so badly to kill their children they can do it with their own consciences and their own money.
What about MY freedom of Choice?

reply from: ProInformed

For the pro-lifers posting here that have access to the private pro-lifers only forum, there are some threads to discuss what pro-lifers can do.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I know what real Satanism was when it first developed centuries ago. I also know what the modern perversion of it is.

reply from: churchmouse

Abortion should not be an option. And if more people worked to try to change our laws to make abortion illegal that would make the biggest impact on the future of every unborn child in the womb.

reply from: Gerald

This sounds really mature. Sounds like a place where the "real pro-lifers" can pat each other on the back and insult the others. LOL

reply from: Nulono

How do I gain access to said forum‽

reply from: nancyu

Abortion should not be an option. And if more people worked to try to change our laws to make abortion illegal that would make the biggest impact on the future of every unborn child in the womb.
Which of these laws should we change to "make abortion illegal" Churchmouse?

reply from: nancyu

You need an invitation from the initiator of the forum. I believe the one PI is referring to was started by yodavater. Try pm-ing him.

reply from: nancyu

Absolutely; the same way you hand out advice to human beings, even though you aren't one.
(edited for Nulono)

reply from: nancyu

Abortion should not be an option. And if more people worked to try to change our laws to make abortion illegal that would make the biggest impact on the future of every unborn child in the womb.
Which of these laws should we change to "make abortion illegal" Churchmouse?
Are these laws not good enough?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Obamania happened over night. RvW happened over night. There are countries where abortion is illegal.
All this makes me suspect abortions can be reduced by making abortion illegal. I don't believe anything else will decrease abortion rates because in the last 35 years everything else has been tried and has failed.
IMO the way to win is through personhood ballots in each state. Obviously there are many states that would approve, many not.
There was an abortion industry before RvW and there will be one after, just not as completely civilization destroyingly massive.

reply from: yoda

You need an invitation from the initiator of the forum. I believe the one PI is referring to was started by yodavater. Try pm-ing him.
Prolly not. I don't think I'm on that one either.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Obama's election did not happen overnight, nor did RvW. Many months/years of legislating and campaigning happened before both of those incidents.

reply from: churchmouse

nancy we have hashed this many times over.
I also agree that our Constitution says that killing is wrong and illegal. But that is not how our laws see it. We have to follow our laws. If we did not then there would be utter chaos in society.
Is the Constitution good enough? Yes for me it is...but what dont you get nancy, our SC does not see it that way because they have made abortion legal. They have ignored whtat he Constitution says and really they have raped it. Abortion however is legal in our country.

reply from: nancyu

...and you still don't get it.
It is NOT legal. The Supreme Court made an ILLEGAL RULING. An unborn child is A PERSON.
Abortion is not LEGAL, it is STATE SANCTIONED, it is SOCIALLY ACCEPTED, it is PROTECTED.
BUT it is NOT LEGAL.
We don't need to change laws, we need to remove laws which protect access to abortion. We need to remove laws which confuse people into thinking an unborn child is a "pregnancy" and not a "PERSON"

reply from: nancyu

What is an unwanted pregnancy?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What is an unwanted pregnancy?
Not all pregnancies are wanted. Not all women have sex with the desire to breed. Pregnancy can be unwanted and unplanned.

reply from: nancyu

So, you're saying that we shouldn't even try to save the children? You must be a proabort troll in sheeps clothing.
Fighting for what you believe in is inherently worthwhile. I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe that when God created us, He intended for us to protect the innocent. Not taking this stance, for me, would be a sin.
I think you just wanted to see who you could discourage.
Troll!
Yes "they" would like us to believe that by accepting, and encouraging abortions, abortions will be reduced. Can you see the logic? It's kind of the opposite of positive reinforcement, I guess. Like negative, non reinforcement, I think...or something like that...maybe I need to do some more reading. I don't quite get it yet, myself.

reply from: nancyu

What is an unwanted pregnancy?
Not all pregnancies are wanted. Not all women have sex with the desire to breed. Pregnancy can be unwanted and unplanned.
Try substituting the word "pregnancy" with the word "child" and see what you come up with.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

The truth. Not all children are wanted. Not all women have sex with the desire to breed. Children can be unwanted and unplanned.

reply from: Gerald

So, you're saying that we shouldn't even try to save the children? You must be a proabort troll in sheeps clothing.
Fighting for what you believe in is inherently worthwhile. I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe that when God created us, He intended for us to protect the innocent. Not taking this stance, for me, would be a sin.
I think you just wanted to see who you could discourage.
Troll!
Yes "they" would like us to believe that by accepting, and encouraging abortions, abortions will be reduced. Can you see the logic? It's kind of the opposite of positive reinforcement, I guess. Like negative, non reinforcement, I think...or something like that...maybe I need to do some more reading. I don't quite get it yet, myself.
Do I want to discourage people from pursuing anti-abortion legislation. Absolutely, I do. Why? Simply because it will only continue the war. Overturning RvW is but one small battle and the war will continue.
Wherever there are laws, there will be people finding creative ways to skirt around them. Unfortunately, that is human nature, that is the way of our culture. If there is a buck to be made, someone will find a way to make it. So as long as there is a demand for abortions, someone will find a way to fulfill that demand and make a few bucks doing so. Even if every state outlawed abortion, I can see abortion clinics moving to Indian owned casinos. Abortion laws would mean nothing there. I can see cruises to international waters...... on and on. Legislation will never be able to stop abortion and will probably result in a small reduction of abortions.
I am absolutely trying to discourage anyone from continuing to engage in this battle to overturn RvW or enact more legislation...etc. I know this is painful to accept, but hopefully you will realize that your efforts are in vain and will only suffice to continue the war and bring about the next battle.
Yes I absolutely think that the current war over legislation is nothing but a waste of time, energy and money. I think that if the same people that put so much time, energy and money into finding ways to reduce unwanted pregnancies or to increase adoptions for mothers seeking abortions it would have a much bigger impact on reducing abortions.
Above all else, I would encourage people to get involved. Volunteer at a high school. Volunteer at an abortion clinic and encourage those seeking abortions to consider adoption.

reply from: ProInformed

IMO, birth control isn't a very good option to offer.
Why on earth not? There are many methods and at least ONE of them should be acceptable to anyone. NFP? That's birth control.
There needs to be much more information made available about the safety and effectiveness of NFP (Natural Family Planning). Do they teach NFP in sex-ed courses? When I was still a choicer I tried several different forms of artificial birth control drugs and devices. I didn't like the fact that they were not natural, posed health risks, and were expensive. I was VERY into health and fitness, didn't even drink sodas or take aspirins, so it really didn't make sense for me to use dangerous drugs for birth control. In addition to wanting to stop taking birth control drugs I had read a book about how to select your baby's gender by understanding the science related to female fertility (both my husband and I wanted a baby girl). The book introduced me to the scientific facts behind NFP. (I had been lied to by pro-abort activists who said NFP was just the old 'rhythm' method that Catholics used and which had a very low effectiveness rate.) I used NFP concpects to concieve my oldest daughter, and liked NFP so much that I never went back to buying and using artificial birth control methods. Also, one of my sisters (who is stil pro-abort) switched to NFP too. Neither of us had a single unplanned pregnancy while using NFP.

reply from: ProInformed

If you were alive when it was legal to own, beat, rape, kill... black slaves,
would you have proposed that the ONLY way to fight that evil would be to try to talk slaveowners into not buying slaves?!?

reply from: Gerald

I would fight for legislation in this case, because legislation makes sense. Legislation would be effective and have a very substantial impact.
I do not see a trivial way around such laws. So it would be a smart and effective approach.
I have already shown you what will happen with legislation.....
But never mind, keep fighting that war, keep pursuing the holy grail.....
Just don't cry to me in 10 years or 20 years, when nothing has happened.
I won't sympathize with you. Apparently, you either like the conflict or the endless cat and mouse games.
In the meantime, I will be doing what I can to fight this battle in a different, more effective way.

reply from: nancyu

I would fight for legislation in this case, because legislation makes sense. Legislation would be effective and have a very substantial impact.
I do not see a trivial way around such laws. So it would be a smart and effective approach.
I have already shown you what will happen with legislation.....
But never mind, keep fighting that war, keep pursuing the holy grail.....
Just don't cry to me in 10 years or 20 years, when nothing has happened.
I won't sympathize with you. Apparently, you either like the conflict or the endless cat and mouse games.
In the meantime, I will be doing what I can to fight this battle in a different, more effective way.
Good for you bub. You think your ideas are new? We've already heard them, from planned parenthood & co.

reply from: churchmouse

Yes, let's just lay back and admit defeat. Wow. And what did the people do that thought slavery was an injustice? Did they do nothing?
The war is between good and evil. IMO opionion, God and Satan. Slaughtering millions of babies a year is not good, its evil. And if you have any conscience at all, you work to stop evil. YOu work to protect the innocent.
What way do you think is effective?

reply from: nancyu

I would fight for legislation in this case, because legislation makes sense. Legislation would be effective and have a very substantial impact.
I do not see a trivial way around such laws. So it would be a smart and effective approach.
I have already shown you what will happen with legislation.....
But never mind, keep fighting that war, keep pursuing the holy grail.....
Just don't cry to me in 10 years or 20 years, when nothing has happened.
I won't sympathize with you. Apparently, you either like the conflict or the endless cat and mouse games.
In the meantime, I will be doing what I can to fight this battle in a different, more effective way.
Good for you bub. You think your ideas are new? We've already heard them, from planned parenthood & co.
Gerald, you don't like losing, do you? Apparently you don't like being on the side of a fight you perceive as "losing."
You're right, go fight with planned parenthood to "reduce" abortions, and the number of unwanted children. You're sure to "win," especially when you hold all the cards, and the deck is neatly stacked.
Planned Parenthood can reduce abortions with no effort whatsoever. Not only that, they can practically eliminate them completely. All they have to do is stop doing them.

reply from: Gerald

I never said admit defeat. I said win in a different way.
IMO you have already lost. Your engaged in a battle you can never win.
But I am beginning to think that you care more about the waging the war than anything else. It must make you feel good to fight evil.
If your goal is not to reduce abortions, what is it?
Your comments about planned parenthood reducing abortions by just not doing them is proof that you just don't get it. If they stop, someone else will start doing them. As long as there is a demand and a buck to be made, someone will find a way to fulfill that demand and make a few bucks doing it. That is just simple economics.
Mouse, I never said not to fight evil. I just said to fight evil differently. I never said that abortion is not evil.
For some strange reason, you seem to have a need to label anyone that disagrees with your ways as being an evil pro-abort. That is just sad. But I understand your need to justify the battle and fuel the war.

reply from: nancyu

What is an unwanted pregnancy?
Not all pregnancies are wanted. Not all women have sex with the desire to breed. Pregnancy can be unwanted and unplanned.
Try substituting the word "pregnancy" with the word "child" and see what you come up with.
Exactly. An unwanted pregnancy is an unwanted CHILD. Start by telling the truth. Stop telling women they are ending a pregnancy. What they are ending is the LIFE of a CHILD.

the desire to breed?!
Stop calling yourself pro life. You're a liar.

reply from: scopia19822

"There needs to be much more information made available about the safety and effectiveness of NFP (Natural Family Planning). Do they teach NFP in sex-ed courses? When I was still a choicer I tried several different forms of artificial birth control drugs and devices. I didn't like the fact that they were not natural, posed health risks, and were expensive. I was VERY into health and fitness, didn't even drink sodas or take aspirins, so it really didn't make sense for me to use dangerous drugs for birth control. In addition to wanting to stop taking birth control drugs I had read a book about how to select your baby's gender by understanding the science related to female fertility (both my husband and I wanted a baby girl). The book introduced me to the scientific facts behind NFP. (I had been lied to by pro-abort activists who said NFP was just the old 'rhythm' method that Catholics used and which had a very low effectiveness rate.) I used NFP concpects to concieve my oldest daughter, and liked NFP so much that I never went back to buying and using artificial birth control methods. Also, one of my sisters (who is stil pro-abort) switched to NFP too. Neither of us had a single unplanned pregnancy while using NFP."
What I like about NFP is in it there is true eqaulity in birth control. It requires the cooperation of both husband and wife. Where as most ABC all of the burden, cost is placed up on the woman, while the man can just stand there his thing in his hand jumping up and down like Sponge Bob Sqaure Pants saying "Im ready Im ready, IM READY"!!! Not to mention the intrusive health questions we have to answer, the invasive physical exams in order for the doctor/clinic to write a script for birth control. While the man gets all of the pleasure and none of the burden and responsibilty. Is that really fair, is that equality? I dont think so.

reply from: carolemarie

It is the truth that most women have sex without wanting children to result from it.
Birth control can be a double edge sword. Women use it to not become pregnant, then if they do, they feel entitled to an abortion. We have a whole mindset that sex without any complications, such as pregnancies and STD's is what we are entitled to.
It isn't working out as witnessed by the incredibly high number of American's with a non-cureable STD. There is no way to sleep around and not eventually get an STD or pregnant. 1 out of 4 Americans over 12 have an STD. Every 2 minutes another person gets infected.
The cure isn't more condoms, but less sleeping around.

reply from: ProInformed

I agree!
It's as if a notion as inaccurate and ludicrous as people are entitled to eat as much candy as they want to, but they should never get a cavity as a result, caught on.
It's just plain stupid to ignore the FACT that there is no such thing as a 100% safe and 100% effective form of contraception, AND that if you have multiple sex partners, you WILL eventually get an STD (or two or three...).
Simply not wanting to believe the facts, not wanting to change their behavior, in NO WAY protects people from the naturally occurring consequences.
All forms of artificial birth control pose potential health risks.
If pregnancy results anyway, and an abortion is bought, there are some serious risks form the abortion as well.
Just because so many people want to live a sexually promsicuous and risky lifestyle, that doesn't translate into being able to do so without the resultant health risks somehow magically becomes possible.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Why does sex education and birth control work in other countries, but not here?

reply from: carolemarie

Where is it working so great?
The more you sleep around, the greater the odds of getting a STD, or BC failure. Our culture is sick sexually. We are obsessed with it, and like addicts will not admit that there is a downside.
Like junkies that take antibiotics

reply from: carolemarie

Here is Canda
Health Canada's statistics show:
In 1997, there were about 3,400 cases of chlamydia; in 2000, cases of chlamydia jumped to over 4,600
Gonorrhea went from 4,500 cases in 1997 to over 6,000 in 2000
Teenagers may be more preoccupied with their chances of getting a job than catching a STD. It's not something they'll readily talk about, until it hits them.
"They often come to me to discuss symptoms and make doctors appointments and they're afraid," said high school guidance counsellor Barbara Levine. "And so I'm the person who deals with the aftermath."
For years, STDs were on the decline in Canada. Levine points to the heavy promotion of sexuality among teenagers as one reason for their increase.
The uninhibited styles of cultural icons like Britney Spears and the "anything goes" mood of rave parties are contributing factors.

reply from: scopia19822

"Why does sex education and birth control work in other countries, but not here?"
Maybe because we dont teach the importance of self control ?

reply from: carolemarie

This is according to the World Health Organization--
The World Health Organization estimated that 340 million new cases of curable STDs (limited to gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, and trichomoniasis) occurred in the world in 1999 (Table 1). The largest number of new cases (incidence) occurred in the region of the world denoted by South and Southeast Asia. But, the highest prevalence (number of cases at any point in time per 1,000 population, ages fifteen to forty-nine) occurred in sub-Saharan Africa, meaning that at any random time during 1999, approximately 119 out of 1,000 persons, ages fifteen to forty-nine, were infected with one of these four STDs, or nearly one out of every nine people.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Abortion rates and accidental pregnancies are much lower in the rest of the industrialized world to my knowledge.

reply from: carolemarie

But STD's are up. Pregnancy isn't the only thing that can happen. The attitude that everyone is hooking up, and that it is normal and expected means that std's will continue to rise.
If you start having sex at 17, and only have two partners a year, that means by 26 you will have had 20 partners....and that is if you only have two partners a year.

reply from: carolemarie

Here are some Stats on STDs
STD diagnoses at GUM (genitourinary medicine) clinics in the UK: 1998-20071
Year Syphilis (primary and secondary) Gonorrhea (uncomplicated) Chlamydia (uncomplicated) Herpes (first attack) Genital Warts (first attack) All new diagnoses
1998 139 13,212 48,726 17,248 70,291 244,282

1999 223 16,470 56,991 17,509 71,748 261,406
2000 342 21,800 68,332 17,823 71,317 284,035

2001 753 23,705 76,515 18,944 73,458 303,169

2002 1,257 25,591 87,588 19,438 74,969 324,170

2003 1,652 24,973 96,159 19,233 76,599 346,168

2004 2,283 22,326 104,739 19,073 80,059 363,289

2005 2,721 19,248 109,418 19,830 81,201 368,258

2006 2,684
18,898
113,783
21,797 83,624 375,843

2007 2,680 18,710 121,986 26,062 89,838 397,990

% change (2006-2007) 0% -1% 7% 20% 7% 6%
% change (1998-2007) 1,828% 42% 150% 51% 28% 63%

reply from: Gerald

I like how Nancy and churchmouse skipped right over this. nancy even created a diversion by going back to a previous post to quote.
I understand you have no answers. I understand your need to move past this quickly and hope nobody else saw it.

reply from: 4given

Not my business or conversation I know. I have to wonder if your purpose for being here is to actually draw other posters over to your forum. Seems that is the case. Maybe nobody else saw that either, but that has been my suspicion with you all along. No one is required to address any of your points/posts. I am quite sure either of them would have no problem responding to you. Again, not my business. Curious as to your time here though. Are you interested in learning more about abortion? Are you pro-choice?

reply from: nancyu

Not my business or conversation I know. I have to wonder if your purpose for being here is to actually draw other posters over to your forum. Seems that is the case. Maybe nobody else saw that either, but that has been my suspicion with you all along. No one is required to address any of your points/posts. I am quite sure either of them would have no problem responding to you. Again, not my business. Curious as to your time here though. Are you interested in learning more about abortion? Are you pro-choice?
Huh, funny how Gerald skipped right over this post. I guess he can't accept that I really just don't care what his opinion of me is, because my suspicion is that he is just another pro abort wad of tissue.
So it thinks we are fueling this war? I thought it was the abortionists doing that. And I didn't know that the battle to defend innocent children needs justification. I think my suspicions are right on, and I'm just as sure that yours are too, 4given.
Back to "my forums" to add one more to my list of non-people to ignore.

reply from: nancyu

What the heck, I guess it won't hurt to answer the question.
My goal is for the unborn child to have the same respect given to every other person. My goal is that each child conceived is protected by the same laws that protect every other person.
If you had looked at my signature you might have figured that one out.
An unborn child is a person.

reply from: JasonFontaine

What if everybody grasped the concept of a little story. The King, the Chicken and the Egg.
They told this story to their children. Hung a picture as a reminder on their wall. Told this story in school. Gave it as a gift to someone who might have different thoughts. The simple concept - the egg's not dead.
If those on the other side can truly believe it's a matter of choice - fine. But, I believe it's a matter of life and death. We can march. We can discuss in forums. But, let's spread this concept of life through this little story.
Won't you join me?
http://web.mac.com/jasonfontaine

reply from: Gerald

I doubt that anyone from here will ever bother with the forum in my sig, nor do I really care.
I am not interested in learning more about abortion. What more is there to know? Millions of children are slaughtered every year.
I consider myself more pro-life than Sarah Palin. When my wife was pregnant, we never considered abortion an option. We chose not to get an amnio done, since no matter the result, abortion was not an option.

reply from: Gerald

My goal is for the unborn child to have the same respect given to every other person. My goal is that each child conceived is protected by the same laws that protect every other person.
If you had looked at my signature you might have figured that one out.
An unborn child is a person.
If you bothered to read and understand what I wrote, you would understand that laws cannot protect the unborn. Dummy me, I thought I made that pretty clear.

reply from: Gerald

Not my business or conversation I know. I have to wonder if your purpose for being here is to actually draw other posters over to your forum. Seems that is the case. Maybe nobody else saw that either, but that has been my suspicion with you all along. No one is required to address any of your points/posts. I am quite sure either of them would have no problem responding to you. Again, not my business. Curious as to your time here though. Are you interested in learning more about abortion? Are you pro-choice?
Huh, funny how Gerald skipped right over this post. I guess he can't accept that I really just don't care what his opinion of me is, because my suspicion is that he is just another pro abort wad of tissue.
So it thinks we are fueling this war? I thought it was the abortionists doing that. And I didn't know that the battle to defend innocent children needs justification. I think my suspicions are right on, and I'm just as sure that yours are too, 4given.
Back to "my forums" to add one more to my list of non-people to ignore.
So your point is a fetus is a person, but pro-aborts are non-people and I am an "it". Your true colors come out crystal clear.
So what are unborn pro-aborts? Do you want to protect them? Or are they just "its" too? Kind of ironic, huh? Since about 50% of the US population is pro-choice, seems like a real conundrum for you.

reply from: 4given

I doubt that anyone from here will ever bother with the forum in my sig, nor do I really care.
I am not interested in learning more about abortion. What more is there to know? Millions of children are slaughtered every year.
I consider myself more pro-life than Sarah Palin. When my wife was pregnant, we never considered abortion an option. We chose not to get an amnio done, since no matter the result, abortion was not an option.Hey I bothered. There is always something to learn. Why are you on a pro-life forum? Do you have ideas that you wish to share? I am not sure about what you mean about being "more pro-life than Sarah Palin".What does that mean? So you are personally pro-life. What does that mean? Are you interested in ending abortion? There are pro-life personal/pro-choice "political" posters here. Would you place yourself in that category?

reply from: nancyu

My goal is for the unborn child to have the same respect given to every other person. My goal is that each child conceived is protected by the same laws that protect every other person.
If you had looked at my signature you might have figured that one out.
An unborn child is a person.
If you bothered to read and understand what I wrote, you would understand that laws cannot protect the unborn. Dummy me, I thought I made that pretty clear.
Laws CAN protect the unborn. I agree with you about this, though, you are a dummy.

reply from: nancyu

Not my business or conversation I know. I have to wonder if your purpose for being here is to actually draw other posters over to your forum. Seems that is the case. Maybe nobody else saw that either, but that has been my suspicion with you all along. No one is required to address any of your points/posts. I am quite sure either of them would have no problem responding to you. Again, not my business. Curious as to your time here though. Are you interested in learning more about abortion? Are you pro-choice?
Huh, funny how Gerald skipped right over this post. I guess he can't accept that I really just don't care what his opinion of me is, because my suspicion is that he is just another pro abort wad of tissue.
So it thinks we are fueling this war? I thought it was the abortionists doing that. And I didn't know that the battle to defend innocent children needs justification. I think my suspicions are right on, and I'm just as sure that yours are too, 4given.
Back to "my forums" to add one more to my list of non-people to ignore.
So your point is a fetus is a person, but pro-aborts are non-people and I am an "it". Your true colors come out crystal clear.
So what are unborn pro-aborts? Do you want to protect them? Or are they just "its" too? Kind of ironic, huh? Since about 50% of the US population is pro-choice, seems like a real conundrum for you.
Unborn pro aborts? You mean they are able to form opinions while still in the womb?! Wow! What a conundrum. I will have to rethink everything now. Gosh Gerald you've really made me think. You must be a genuis!
Actually, We haven't yet determined whether or not pro aborts are people. Not everyone has voted yet.
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=5273&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
Personally, I think pro aborts are just wads of tissue, but then again, so are the rest of us.
So why are you here Gerald? Seems to me it's to make us look like fools. We don't really need your help with that, so why don't you just shove off.

reply from: nancyu

Question: how are you going to prevent women using natural means to abort?
Did I say PREVENT? I didn't say that laws can prevent every abortion did I? Laws against murder don't PREVENT every murder, but laws do PROTECT people.

reply from: ProInformed

I strongly encourage you to learn as much as you can about abortion, to keep learning. ESPECIALLY since you prefer to not employ the legislative process and therefore should learn more about WHY women abort and how to better reach those women in order to protect them and their babies from the abortion industry!
BTW Sarah Palin is a member of the pro-life, pro-woman group Feminists For Life.
I encourage you to visit their website to learn about pro-woman feminist reasons for opposing abortion, why the original leaders of the women's rights movement were opposed to abortion, and how pro-lifers can better support women so they don't feel they 'have to' abort.
Also, don't count on your children embracing your pro-life POV as strongly as you do. You will need to keep your own knowledge of abortion-related issues up to date in order to better educate and protect your children from the pro-abortion society that they will live in (again - especially if you have no intention to engage in the democratic process in order to change what is legal in society).
I've met MANY choicists who were raised in Christian pro-life homes whe became choicers because their parents didn't teach them enough about abortion, so they fell for the abortion industry lies. It's not enough to simply tell your children abortion is wrong and hope they don't abort your grandbabies. LEARN all you can, and then teach your chidlren.

reply from: Gerald

Wow, I hope I have never given the impression I think pro-lifers are fools.
What I really think iis what I have been saying, I think most pro-lifers are chasing the holy grail in vain.
I find it interesting that your reaction to my ideas and opinions are to slam me. To me this is an admission of failure on your part. You cannot logically address the points I make, so you attack me. You try to quesiton my motives. You try to distract and divert. Instead of engaging in discussion, I get told to "shove off". That is real grown up.
Why am I here? To discuss ideas about abortion. Maybe I will learn something about fighting abortion. Maybe others will learn something from me.
Believe it or not, I appreciate thoughtful comments and suggestions by people like proinformed.
Proinformed, I don't buy Sarah Palin's pro-life shtick at all. Anyone that is really pro-life does not get an amnio done, which endangers their unborn child and only serves one purpose, to diagnose genetic deficiencies of the unborn child. Even more important, a true pro-lifer does not use terms like "we chose to keep our baby" Frankly, I never looked at it as though there was a choice to make.
Why anyone would buy into her pro-life BS is way beyond me. I guess many pro-lifers would rather vote for someone that lies to them than a pro-choice/pro-abort candidate. Frankly, I don't see much difference between them. But then again, I try very hard to look at things objectively.

reply from: Gerald

More laws will only suffice to continue the war, to continue the cat and mouse games.
I know you have a need to demonize the pro-aborts. That is plainly obvious.
Unfortunately, as much as I try to talk and discuss this in a sensible fashion, you will continue along with your hateful war. That is OK. I understand, you have too much invested in your ways of doing things to ever stop and try to evaluate your motives and what will come of all of your efforts. To me all you really seem to care about is how engaging in the fight makes you feel.
Way too many people jump on the legislation bandwagon without ever analyzing the problem and ALL of the possible solutions.

reply from: Nulono

Must... not... can't... URGH!
http://www.YouthRights.org/

reply from: churchmouse

Our laws say no the unborn is not a person and they grant any woman the right to kill. It is horrible, insane, barbaric.....but our law gives women the right to kill. Kill something the government in most circumstances does not recognize as anything.
Even our newly elected president Barack Hussein thinks that which is in the womb is NOTHING.
The laws however unfair and unjust, grant women the right to kill. Kill a living human being that should be afforded the same rights as any born person. If our government recognized the unborn as a person, abortion would be illegal. Why do you think PP does not want women to see the ultrasound of their baby? The less a woman knows the better.
If abortion were illegal, many people would be in jail right now wouldnt they? And if it was illegal then we should be able to arrest people and charge them with something......why cant we do that? We cant because abortion is legal.
Where is it working? Amsterdam? LOL Maybe we are just more social degenerate than everyone else.
I have been gone for a few days......geeze. Skipped over what I might ask? I try to address all posts directed at me. You come across in your posts as a pro-abrt
Gerald you said,
Funny that before abortion was legal....less children were killed. So you think laws don't stop people from doing things our society says are immoral? Why do we have laws then? Lets legalize pediphelia and rape. And while we are at it lets legalize all drugs.
Our efforts are not in vain. You obviously are not pro-life. There is a war you are right about that. The war is between good and evil. And a law that bans abortion would be a good law.
We need to do everything we can to stop abortion and that includes working to overturn Roe.
Your way is not enough. We have laws to protect us after we are born and we need laws to protect the unborn. That is if you consider them people.......Do you?

reply from: Nulono

Barack Hussein, Hillary Rodham, kat lynett, and John Sidney!
It's Barack OBAMA.

reply from: yoda

Who?
Osama bin Hussein?

reply from: Gerald

Mouse,
You say legislation will work. I say it won't. I have given you specific examples of many ways loopholes will be exploited that you cannot refute. Yet you hold on to your holy grail. You can call me all the names you want. I know in my heart what my beliefs are. I have always been true to my beliefs.
Keep fueling the war. Keep fighting each battle..... But be assured, the biggest outcome of each battle will be to guarantee the continued war.
It is OK, I understand that you need the war and to fight the evil ones to make you feel better. After all, anyone fighting such evil low life pro-abort beings must be a saint.

reply from: yoda

I'm glad you weren't around when antiabortion laws were first passed in this country. They might never have been considered.
All loopholes can be closed. All it takes is the will to do it.
Yes, that's what slave owners said about slavery, too.
You don't win anything by giving up. Or by encouraging others to give up.
What do you care whether others disagree with you and want to keep trying to save babies? Why are you trying to stop them?

reply from: Gerald

I'm glad you weren't around when antiabortion laws were first passed in this country. They might never have been considered.
All loopholes can be closed. All it takes is the will to do it.
Yes, that's what slave owners said about slavery, too.
You don't win anything by giving up. Or by encouraging others to give up.
What do you care whether others disagree with you and want to keep trying to save babies? Why are you trying to stop them?
Trying to stop them? You have completely missed the boat.
I am trying to convince everyone to stop fighting the legislation war and put their efforts into other more effective means of saving unborn babies. Show me where I have ever said to give up. My motto is to never give up. I just think there are sensible approaches and not so sensible approaches. That is all.
Like I said in the other thread, it is no skin off my nose for you to keep soldiering on fueling the war. I just don't have any sympathy for your next to zero progress in 35 years approach.
I went over the slave example already too. I would support legislation to outlaw slavery, as it would be a very effective solution. There are no obvious gaping loopholes to exploit. That is not so with abortion laws. You can keep pretending legislation will work. I just won't be spending my efforts fighting for it.

reply from: BossMomma

Improve birth control for starters, make sex ed. comprehensive instead of abstinance only. I believe someone is trying to start a law that states that women must see an ultrasound of their baby before going ahead with the abortion, that might help. The best way to reduce abortion is to make it a moot point.

reply from: nancyu

Our laws say no the unborn is not a person
Saying something does not make it so, does it. An unborn child IS a person.


You have point the finger-itis. I agree, I don't like planned parenthood, but are you going to keep pointing you finger at them and waiting for them to do what they should do, or are you going to start with yourself, and figure out what you can do (besides blaming, PP, Barack Obama, The Supreme Court, etc.?
No. Abortion is against God's laws, and He hasn't put anyone in jail yet has he? Does this mean it is no longer against His law? NO. He hasn't changed the law.
No that is not the reason. Abortion is NOT legal. The reason is because WE accept it. WE don't believe that we can change it.
Have you ever read the serenity prayer?
Here it is:
God Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference.
This is a really good prayer.
Abortion is not something we should accept, and it IS something we CAN CHANGE.
Reread what you wrote churchmouse and pay attention to what I put in bold. This is OUR Nation, OUR government (you know, of, for and by the people) We as a People do not have to accept what OUR government tells us. THEY work for US, not the other way around. THIS IS OUR GOVERNMENT!!!
You have convinced yourself that an unborn child is not a person, because the Supreme Court told you this? Is the Supreme Court God? Or is the Supreme Court made up of people who can be wrong?
Forget for a minute what our laws say, and what Roe Vs Wade and Barack Obama says. I'm asking you churchmouse:
Is an unborn child a person?
(It's a very simple "yes" or "no" kind of question.)

reply from: nancyu

Any way I can think of.

reply from: nancyu

Wow, I hope I have never given the impression I think pro-lifers are fools.
What I really think iis what I have been saying, I think most pro-lifers are chasing the holy grail in vain.
I think you're wrong.

reply from: nancyu

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg
A PERSON

reply from: scopia19822

"Improve birth control for starters, make sex ed. comprehensive instead of abstinance only. I believe someone is trying to start a law that states that women must see an ultrasound of their baby before going ahead with the abortion, that might help. The best way to reduce abortion is to make it a moot point."
I agree Boss that we need to offer comprehensive sex ed, but I think we need to emphasize abstinance because it is the only sure fire way to protect from pregnancy and STDS. I think that it should be mandatory that every middle and high school student in America have to spend a week with the baby think it over dolls and maybe that might cause them to delay sex at least until they are adults. We also need to offer women resources so they will see that abortion is not the only option.

reply from: nancyu

None of this is the answer to ending abortion. The end is this:
An unborn child is a person.
The rest is stuff we should do, but mostly just a distraction from what must be done today. Stop putting conditions on ending abortion.

reply from: CharlesD

That would certainly put an end to the legality of abortion.
To actually end abortion you need to not only make it illegal, but unthinkable.

reply from: scopia19822

"None of this is the answer to ending abortion. The end is this:
An unborn child is a person.
The rest is stuff we should do, but mostly just a distraction from what must be done today. Stop putting conditions on ending abortion.
"
The dialogue needs to change. I agree that the unborn must be protected. The only way you are going to end abortion is to put "conditions " on it. We also need to change the message that the right to life ends at birth, which is one reason why so many who would other wise join us to abolish abortion will not listen to us. They see us as pro fetus, anti woman and anti child, most of us are not like that. Being prolife means caring about all persons from conception until natural death. I am just as concearned about protecting born children, the disabled, the mentally ill, the mentally disabled, and the others that can not speak for themselves as I am the unborn. The right to life does not end at birth!! Yet you have so many so called prolifers who once these precious unborn babies are born dont care if they have food, clothing, a home or their basic needs met. Then they are just "dregs" on society, a waste of their tax dollars. How prolife is that? If you do not want women to have abortions, give them options and resources so they will see that abortion is not the only option. There is only so much CPCs can do. If we defunded PP and diverted that money to social programs to enable women to keep their babies we would not have to pay a dime more in taxes. How many times I have heard so many so called prolife conservatives say "no abortions" but I am not going to do anything to ensure that you will carry your baby to term and raise your child.We also need to educate women on the emotional and physical risks of abortion. The prolife movement needs to change the hearts and minds of America if they are to be successful, the usual rhetoric now falls on deaf ears. We have just suffered a major setback with Obama being elected, I doubt abortion will ever be made illegal in my lifetime. Maybe my sons, but not mine. I am thinking about leaving the" movement" because as it is now I am sick of the division and hypocracy and figthing amongst ourselves. I am a humanitarian, not a soldier in the great army. I will write my Congressman, Senators, etc and I will try to help women on an individual basis with whatever they might need. I think that is where God has called me to be in this issue.

reply from: scopia19822

"That would certainly put an end to the legality of abortion.
To actually end abortion you need to not only make it illegal, but unthinkable.'
Charles, you are like the calm in the middle of a fierce hurricane.

reply from: nancyu

What the H E double toothpicks are you talking about?!! There's a message that the right to life ends at birth? I guess I missed that one Scopia.

reply from: faithman

That would certainly put an end to the legality of abortion.
To actually end abortion you need to not only make it illegal, but unthinkable.
The way to make it unthinkable, is to connect people emotionally to the womb child. The best way to educate people about womb life, is to show the imagry of womb life to as many as you can. The beautiful pictures in my sig are the best I have found in 18 years of doing pro-life work. The ultra sound videos are good. too. Every pro-lifers should arm themselves with live pre-born pictures. The added benifit is that they make the aborted pictures even more powerful, as folks are once emotionally connected to innocent womb life, they tend to get upset about it being destroyed in such horrific ways. Life is just to precious to be waisted in an abortion clinic dumpster.

reply from: nancyu

That would certainly put an end to the legality of abortion.
To actually end abortion you need to not only make it illegal, but unthinkable.
LET ME CLEAR SOMETHING UP:
THE GOAL OF THE PRO LIFE MOVEMENT IS TO PUT AN END TO THE (real or perceived) LEGALITY OF ABORTION.
No, that doesn't mean our work as a human race ends after that. There will still be people we will need to convince. There will still be people we will need to help, But that doesn't mean we keep abortion accessible until each and every person on earth is won over.
(Great, we have another $pro @!*# lifer$)

reply from: JRH

That would certainly put an end to the legality of abortion.
To actually end abortion you need to not only make it illegal, but unthinkable.
The way to make it unthinkable, is to connect people emotionally to the womb child. The best way to educate people about womb life, is to show the imagry of womb life to as many as you can. The beautiful pictures in my sig are the best I have found in 18 years of doing pro-life work. The ultra sound videos are good. too. Every pro-lifers should arm themselves with live pre-born pictures. The added benifit is that they make the aborted pictures even more powerful, as folks are once emotionally connected to innocent womb life, they tend to get upset about it being destroyed in such horrific ways. Life is just to precious to be waisted in an abortion clinic dumpster.
There is no womb child. Only a non sentient cell clump.

reply from: scopia19822

"What the H E double toothpicks are you talking about?!! There's a message that the right to life ends at birth? I guess I missed that one Scopia."
You have people in the prolife movement who are only concerned about the UNBORN. once they are born they really dont care what happens to them.

reply from: nancyu

IMO, birth control isn't a very good option to offer.
I agree.
Here's an interesting read from Pro Life Philippines:
http://www.prolife.org.ph/page/contraception

reply from: faithman

That would certainly put an end to the legality of abortion.
To actually end abortion you need to not only make it illegal, but unthinkable.
The way to make it unthinkable, is to connect people emotionally to the womb child. The best way to educate people about womb life, is to show the imagry of womb life to as many as you can. The beautiful pictures in my sig are the best I have found in 18 years of doing pro-life work. The ultra sound videos are good. too. Every pro-lifers should arm themselves with live pre-born pictures. The added benifit is that they make the aborted pictures even more powerful, as folks are once emotionally connected to innocent womb life, they tend to get upset about it being destroyed in such horrific ways. Life is just to precious to be waisted in an abortion clinic dumpster.
There is no womb child. Only a non sentient cell clump.
AAAAAHHHHHH the stupid little punk desides to ignore the evidence. No suprise there at all. Willingly blind and ignorant is a death scum must.

reply from: nancyu

Well Scopia, we can't legislate caring, can we.
EVERYONE is protected by laws against murder except the unborn. And THAT is what we are supposed to be fighting for. No more, no less. I think you better have another talk with God, because I think you're missing something.

reply from: nancyu

Legislate, Amend, Protest, Teach, Read, Write, Fight, Vote, Educate, Judge, Punish, Chastise, Discipline, Correct, De fund, Preach, Pray, Listen, Learn, Help, http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg, Honor, Respect, Love.
This is not only what we can do, it is what we must do:
Everything.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I honestly don't see how birth control can be considered suicide, or a way to end the human race. People can use whatever method they want, including NFP, to effectively choose WHEN they want children and HOW MANY children to have.
Women who do not wish to have ANY children have the option of permanent sterilization. Most women who use birth control do so only temporarily to limit the number of pregnancies and to avoid having their children too close together.
Even NFP is acceptable to the Catholic Church and I believe it is being used by many couples, because we no longer see many large Catholic families like we used to before the acceptance of NFP, which is more effective than the old "rhythm method."

reply from: nancyu

More from the article:
http://www.prolife.org.ph/page/contraception

reply from: BossMomma

I dunno, I did the baby think it over doll at the age of 16 in home ec. I failed because after my second sleepless night I smashed my doll against a wall and broke it. My teacher was mortified and told me never to get pregnant, I'm a great mom now lol.

reply from: BossMomma

That would certainly put an end to the legality of abortion.
To actually end abortion you need to not only make it illegal, but unthinkable.
The way to make it unthinkable, is to connect people emotionally to the womb child. The best way to educate people about womb life, is to show the imagry of womb life to as many as you can. The beautiful pictures in my sig are the best I have found in 18 years of doing pro-life work. The ultra sound videos are good. too. Every pro-lifers should arm themselves with live pre-born pictures. The added benifit is that they make the aborted pictures even more powerful, as folks are once emotionally connected to innocent womb life, they tend to get upset about it being destroyed in such horrific ways. Life is just to precious to be waisted in an abortion clinic dumpster.
There is no womb child. Only a non sentient cell clump.
As a pregnant woman I can tell you you're full of it. I have 4D ultrasounds of my unborn child, she has a face, a name and looks and acts like any newborn. You are either lying through your teeth or in some wierd denial.

reply from: Gerald

As soon as you figure out a realistic way to make everyone believe that, let me know.
It is like me saying "the end of all war and thus world peace is this:
Life is too precious for people to die in war."
It sounds good. It makes sense. Just don't bet the farm on it. Don't expect everyone to magically change their beliefs.

reply from: Gerald

This is exactly why the movement is destined for failure. The goal as it is portrayed so vividly here is to control people.
Exposed for what it truly is, an attempt to force others to believe as you believe, or at least to live their lives according to your beliefs.
With people portraying this attitude, you are most certainly destined to a never ending war. As yodavater said, "keep soldiering on" and on and on and on and on and on and on and on........ It is no skin off my nose.
But as I realized a long time ago, I think that is exactly what so many want. They want the conflict. They thrive on the conflict. It makes them feel good to fight the evil. Why end a conflict that brings you so much satisfaction?

reply from: yoda

And your evidence of that would be.........???????

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Biology 101:
Whoah, whoopsie dasies! It's already far more than a "clump" of cells. I can't consider anything past the blastula stage to be just a "clump".
So yeah... the unborn is a "clump" for about the first 3 weeks of life, and that's from the moment of fertilization. It takes a whole week for it to float down the fallopian tube and finally implant, and you're not pregnant until implantation anyway. So really, from implantation to a BEING with a heart, circulatory system and nervous system, it takes 2 weeks.
NO woman knows she is pregnant after 3 weeks... because her next period isn't due yet. NO clinical abortions occur at this stage, not that I have ever heard of. The EARLIEST a woman could possibly know she is pregnant and get an abortion is during week 4, and by then her child already has a working heart, ciruclatory and nervous system. That is a FAR CRY from a "clump" of cells. Most pregnancy tests don't even work until week 4.
Source: http://www.pregnancy.org/fetaldevelopment

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Nancy, calm down. You do not dictate what the goal(s) are for the pro-life movement as a whole. Personally, my goals are much like CharlesD's: To make abortion unthinkable and completely unnecessary; obsoltete.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

More from the article:
http://www.prolife.org.ph/page/contraception
Nancy, I was referring to the link you provided to Pro Life Phillipines, which begins:
"Contraceptive ethic is predictably a suicide pact. Any group that refuses to reproduce itself will disappear."
It goes on to vilify birth control. I am glad you agree that NFP is a perfectly moral and acceptable way to control reproduction.

reply from: nancyu

More from the article:
http://www.prolife.org.ph/page/contraception
Nancy, I was referring to the link you provided to Pro Life Phillipines, which begins:
"Contraceptive ethic is predictably a suicide pact. Any group that refuses to reproduce itself will disappear."
It goes on to vilify birth control. I am glad you agree that NFP is a perfectly moral and acceptable way to control reproduction.
You and I do not see eye to eye, and you seem to like putting words in my mouth.
I don't believe in "controlling" reproduction. Planning, and controlling are two very very different things! NFP Natural Family Planning. Is NOT Birth Control.

reply from: Gerald

That is a goal that I could agree with to some extent. I think it is a little too idealistic (like world peace), but setting a high goal can be of value too. Now what is the best way to achieve that goal?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

That is a goal that I could agree with to some extent. I think it is a little too idealistic (like world peace), but setting a high goal can be of value too. Now what is the best way to achieve that goal?
The ways people have mentioned on this topic. Providing aid to pregnant women, pushing for maternal health care bills and full paid maternal/paternal leave, things like that. I even think that protesting has its place.

reply from: nancyu

I never said I was a dictator, but I'm smart enough to figure out what the goal of the pro life movement is. What your, and CharlesD's personal goals are, are not important to me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You again claim that you alone know the "goals" of THE pro-life movement. There is no ONE movement. It is every person and their individual opinions. A bunch of us all happen to agree that all people deserve life. THAT is the core of the pro-life movement. The only other core issue I think most pro-lifers agree on is that elective abortion should be illegal.
Past that, many of us disagree on many things.

reply from: carolemarie

That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell....

reply from: faithman

What? that you are a murderer of three womb children? I think you need more than a nut shell to hold that one.

reply from: Hosea

JRH said "There is no womb child. Only a non sentient cell clump."
This shows total ignorance. He will not listen so there is no purpose to argue with him.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What? that you are a murderer of three womb children? I think you need more than a nut shell to hold that one.
She was replying to me.

reply from: churchmouse

Nulano
Its barack hussein obama.
Is there something wrong with hussein?
It will work. It worked before 1973 before abortion was legalized. And it would work again.
I never called you a name.
And I know in my heart that if our government banned abortion and made that LAW......that millions of unborns would have the right and the chance to be born. I know in my heart that the majority of woman would think twice, three times about having sex.
Like Yoda said we should never ever give up. Millions are being killed and we need to stop it.
Anything less than legislation gives woman the door to kill.
You still want the option to be there.
These are all good ideas. They might be followed but then they might not. Even if woman see the ultrasound they still might choose to kill. THE OPTION SHOULD NOT BE THERE PERIOD.
The best way to stop the slaughter is to make the act illegal.
Nancy I am very active in this work. I am not going to repost my life story or what I do for the cause......if you havent got it by now you never will. And maybe you dont want to, which is fine with me.
I do my part.
All those you mention are part of the probem. What, you dont think fingers should be pointed their way?
The act of abortion is legal.
I find it very offensive that you think I do not regard the unborn A a person. The unborn is as much a person as I am....or you for that matter.
But you overlook the law nancy. Abortion, the act of is legal. It is legal for any woman in our country TO KILL, TO MURDER. It is legal for any woman to murder the little person in the womb. Our government condones murder. And in this case the murder of every child taken from abortion.
I cant put it any simpler that this.
We as citizens have to follow the law. And if abortion were illegal than our jails would be full of murders and abortionists.
One who is following the bible cant forget the laws of the country. We cant take matters into our own hands.
We can make our vote count however by voting for people who are pro-life, who do conssider the unborn as people.
We know as Christians that there are two positions central to this issue. The first position is God centered , that life is precious and that the beginning and ending resides with God. The second is the human focused position. That rights are created and given by man, that the act of choice eternally trumps the natrue of choice itelf.

reply from: Gerald

Saying legislation worked before 1973 is akin to saying when the cat was in the bag, life was good. But believing that you can easily put the cat back in the bag after letting it out is completely naive. Even if you managed to get the cat back in the bag, it would fight, fight and fight for it's freedom.
As I said in so many ways before, doors will always be open for abortions. There will always be loopholes and people exploiting those loopholes. There will always be alternatives, such as Canada, Mexico, Indian reservations, cruises to international waters.....etc.
You can keep believing it will help. I don't believe it ever will help.

reply from: carolemarie

I agree with you that people will find loopholes if abortion is banned. But some will not seek abortions if it is against the law.
And if we ban it, the other side will come back and re-instate it. It is a constant battle. A constitutional amendment would end the problem with it being legal

reply from: yoda

EXACTLY! And we help only the proaborts by such attacks.
"Morality cannot be legislated, but behavior can be regulated. Judicial decrees may not change the heart, but they can restrain the heartless".
-Dr. Martin Luther King

reply from: yoda

This is exactly why the movement is destined for failure. The goal as it is portrayed so vividly here is to control people.
Exposed for what it truly is, an attempt to force others to believe as you believe, or at least to live their lives according to your beliefs. ?
That's a rather discriminatory, biased statement.
Do we not "force" born people not to murder each other? Morally, why should we NOT "force" born people not to kill unborn people?
Do all criminal laws not "control people"? Why do you discriminate in such a DEADLY fashon?
"Morality cannot be legislated, but behavior can be regulated. Judicial decrees may not change the heart, but they can restrain the heartless".
-Dr. Martin Luther King

reply from: yoda

Nancy, calm down. You do not dictate what the goal(s) are for the pro-life movement as a whole. Personally, my goals are much like CharlesD's: To make abortion unthinkable and completely unnecessary; obsoltete.
No, she doesn't, but she happens to be right according to the dictionary. Oh wait! I said the FORBIDDEN WORD, didn't I? Silly me!
Oh, and btw...... abortion is NEVER "NECESSARY", so how can you make it "unnecessary"?

reply from: yoda

And THAT is exactly what she said!

reply from: yoda

Defeatism never helped a thing. Giving up before the outcome is realized is a sure way to lose, every time.

reply from: faithman

and totally unnessisary, and constitutionally dangerous. All that is needed is the life at conception act to pass, and a presidents signature. Amendments take years, sometimes decades to pass. an act of congress takes only weeks sometimes. And your stupid baby killing behind should know, an amendment can be overturned as well. Can your ignorant self say prohibition? But leave it to a baby killer to try and drag it out as long as they can, misdirect focus, and steal time and life from the womb child. Kinda like the 3 you had snuff out as youthful little mistakes. You are the most dangerous criminal against the womb child. You claim to be their friend, but you betray them at every turn. This post is further proof of that fact.

reply from: yoda

It's all good, IMO.
If we have a statute passed by congress, then we can work on an amendment later. If the amendment comes first, then we don't need a statute.

reply from: Gerald

Defeatism never helped a thing. Giving up before the outcome is realized is a sure way to lose, every time.
I guess you just don't understand. I never said give up. What I have said over and over is "don't waste your time, effort and money on legislation". There are more effective uses of resources. That is a far cry from giving up. But I think you knew that.


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics