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Rev. Laurence White compares abortion in America to the Holocaust

Both "final solutions" are equally wicked

by: GodsLaw4Us2Live

He urges Americans to vote against the evil men in favor of abortion. He says, "Do not allow evil men to triumph". An audio clip:
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/popups/media_player.aspx?LatestDaily=1

reply from: BossMomma

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
Huh? 40 million Americans have been aborted. Isn't the killing on a similar scale to the holocaust?
The holocaust and abortion are both "final solutions"; they get rid of an undesirable people group.
I really don't see the difference.

reply from: BossMomma

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
Huh? 40 million Americans have been aborted. Isn't the killing on a similar scale to the holocaust?
The holocaust and abortion are both "final solutions"; they get rid of an undesirable people group.
I really don't see the difference.
I really don't think you see what a nut job you are becoming either.

reply from: txtriguy

Why are you attacking the person? Stick to the subject at hand. Defend your position logically. Give some valid points to counter his, not name calling. This is serious, not the 3rd grade playground.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
Huh? 40 million Americans have been aborted. Isn't the killing on a similar scale to the holocaust?
The holocaust and abortion are both "final solutions"; they get rid of an undesirable people group.
I really don't see the difference.
I really don't think you see what a nut job you are becoming either.
The Pro-Life movement has equated abortion and the holocaust for years. The resemblance is amazing. Except, abortion is killing a lot more people than the holocaust ever did.

reply from: joe

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
Huh? 40 million Americans have been aborted. Isn't the killing on a similar scale to the holocaust?
The holocaust and abortion are both "final solutions"; they get rid of an undesirable people group.
I really don't see the difference.

reply from: BossMomma

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
Huh? 40 million Americans have been aborted. Isn't the killing on a similar scale to the holocaust?
The holocaust and abortion are both "final solutions"; they get rid of an undesirable people group.
I really don't see the difference.
The holocaust was meant to wipe out what was then considered an inferior race, millions of men, women and, children were transported in crowded cattle cars to concentration camps where they were gassed, experimented on and, treated worse than animals in a factory farm and you don't see the difference? Perhaps if you dilated your rectum, extracted your head and, got a wiff of fresh air it'd become apparent.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
Huh? 40 million Americans have been aborted. Isn't the killing on a similar scale to the holocaust?
The holocaust and abortion are both "final solutions"; they get rid of an undesirable people group.
I really don't see the difference.
The holocaust was meant to wipe out what was then considered an inferior race, millions of men, women and, children were transported in crowded cattle cars to concentration camps where they were gassed, experimented on and, treated worse than animals in a factory farm and you don't see the difference? Perhaps if you dilated your rectum, extracted your head and, got a wiff of fresh air it'd become apparent.
Rev. Lawrence Wright says if we continue abortion this nation should and must be destroyed by God. It is worse than the holocaust. The pro-life movement has called abortion America's holocaust for years. This nation is facing annihilation for murdering children. This American holocaust has been more successful than what Hitler did. Babies are considered inferior and treated worse than animals, experimented on and poisoned. What was true of the Jewish holocaust is true of the infant holocaust. God will bring down the bloody and deceitful nation if she doesn't repent.

reply from: BossMomma

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
Huh? 40 million Americans have been aborted. Isn't the killing on a similar scale to the holocaust?
The holocaust and abortion are both "final solutions"; they get rid of an undesirable people group.
I really don't see the difference.
The holocaust was meant to wipe out what was then considered an inferior race, millions of men, women and, children were transported in crowded cattle cars to concentration camps where they were gassed, experimented on and, treated worse than animals in a factory farm and you don't see the difference? Perhaps if you dilated your rectum, extracted your head and, got a wiff of fresh air it'd become apparent.
Rev. Lawrence Wright says if we continue abortion this nation should and must be destroyed by God. It is worse than the holocaust. The pro-life movement has called abortion America's holocaust for years. This nation is facing annihilation for murdering children. This American holocaust has been more successful than what Hitler did. Babies are considered inferior and treated worse than animals, experimented on and poisoned. What was true of the Jewish holocaust is true of the infant holocaust. God will bring down the bloody and deceitful nation if she doesn't repent.
This country is not facing annihilation, god doesn't even come into play until one dies. A fetus is not experimented on, unless you consider pre-natal surgery to save the life of the woman or unborn child. Abortion would be a holocaust if all unborn children were aborted, but just as many are allowed to live as are killed in abortion. You are an extremist loon and just as insulting as the pro-choice loon who states a human fetus is not a human being.

reply from: Rosalie

Then you are neither smart nor educated.
Abortion is about women having the right to make a choice concerning their bodies and lives, there is no intention to systematically abort ever single fetus.
To compare abortion to Holocaust is outrageous and it just shows what kind of person you are as well ass the inexcusable lack of knowledge of this subject on your part.

reply from: yoda

Getting frustrated trying to win an argument with no ammunition? Tough thing to do, isn't it?
The motivation for mass (or single) elective killings doesn't really matter, does it? If a slave is killed because the master doesn't like his attitude, does that make it any less horrific than when a Jew is killed because of his religion?
And the mechanism for slaughter is also quite irrelevant.... the Romans threw the Christians to the lions, was that any less horrific than when the Jews were gassed or shot?
So you really have NO argument, NO ammunition in this debate, do you? As far as I can tell, the only reason you're shooting your mouth off is so you can protect the precious "right" to kill babies whenever someone wants to. That way you won't have to support them with your tax money, right?

reply from: Rosalie

Only you an dpeople like you care what some crazy, fanatical nutjob says.
Go and try to make threats about the end of the world to your brethren who might swallow your bull*****.

reply from: yoda

It's about systematically aborting every single baby in the womb of a woman who doesn't want it, right? Why all the effort to make baby killing seem less horrific than other mass murders?
You do nothing for this debate but spew your venom and hatred at those who disagree with you. That reveals a lot about YOU.

reply from: BossMomma

It's about systematically aborting every single baby in the womb of a woman who doesn't want it, right? Why all the effort to make baby killing seem less horrific than other mass murders?
You do nothing for this debate but spew your venom and hatred at those who disagree with you. That reveals a lot about YOU.
Every unwanted child is not aborted, the foster care system overflows with the survivors. Thousands of unwanted children are waiting for loving homes, why are they forgotten? Abortion is not a holocaust.

reply from: Rosalie

How is pointing out what a ridiculous, disrespectful and uneducated assumption that is make me venomous?
Something tells me that the very fact that I am pro-choice rubs you the wrong way and you will just find every and any excuse to try to insult me. Don't bother, people like you cannot insult me.
What effort? I'm just pointing out the stupidity. It doesn't really take any effort.
Call abortion whatever you want, that doesn't change anything about what it is: a valid reproductive choice.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Funny. When I googled "Rev. Lawrence Wright," the only link of value took me right back to the OP.
Does this man exist outside the imagination of a certain poster?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

It is Rev. Laurence White. Sorry for posting based on memory. I see the link to his audio has moved also.

reply from: nancyu

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
BossMomma, likening the abortion to the Holocaust is not to insult you, or to diminish the magnitude of it or cheapen it at all. I'm confused by this reaction. I don't understand why you feel this way. I think it's all a part of the same crime, one does not outweigh or diminish the other.
Isn't it possible that your Great Grandfather might also be opposed to abortion? Do you really not see the unborn as human beings? Or is it that you don't feel they have as much worth because they haven't lived as long?
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id15.html

reply from: RiverMoonLady

It is Rev. Laurence White. Sorry for posting based on memory. I see the link to his audio has moved also.
Sorry to break this to you, but Rev. LAURENCE Wright doesn't give me any information either.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93cFOjDG-Ks&NR=1

reply from: fetalisa

And 35 years after Roe, abortion is still legal. What might that tell you? (Feel fee to substitute any other inane forced birth argument like abortion=murder or unborn=persons. The question at the end is always the same.)

reply from: nancyu

BossMomma, your logic isn't logical. Hitler wasn't killing all of the humans when he tried to eliminate the Jews either. Only the ones he considered undesirable.

reply from: fetalisa

And like your bible, if he said it, why it must be true. All reverends answer questions immaterial to modern life, like 'where did everything come from?' The answer to such questions changes not one bit how we live our lives, but that's what reverends get paid to do, obsess about questions immaterial and irrelevant to our modern lives. You would think they would find a real issue to address that might actually help someone, like poverty.
How utterly new! It is not as if blood libel has ever been used in political fights before, now is it?
Many Jews find this line of argumentation to be highly offensive. It trivializes what the Jews went through at the hands of Hitler.
You've no more evidence for the existence of your god than I have evidence for the existence of http://justin-kennedy.net/CountChocula.jpg. It's sad when people have no better argument than to resort to the authority of imaginary characters. I suppose next you will warn me of all the reasons Santa might not visit my house on 12/25?

reply from: BossMomma

Getting frustrated trying to win an argument with no ammunition? Tough thing to do, isn't it?
The motivation for mass (or single) elective killings doesn't really matter, does it? If a slave is killed because the master doesn't like his attitude, does that make it any less horrific than when a Jew is killed because of his religion?
And the mechanism for slaughter is also quite irrelevant.... the Romans threw the Christians to the lions, was that any less horrific than when the Jews were gassed or shot?
So you really have NO argument, NO ammunition in this debate, do you? As far as I can tell, the only reason you're shooting your mouth off is so you can protect the precious "right" to kill babies whenever someone wants to. That way you won't have to support them with your tax money, right?
I'm as pro-life as you so you can kiss my ass yodahater, that means the right cheek, the left cheek and all up and down my crack. I don't have to call a thing something it isn't to justify my stand, people like you and GL4U2L are what make pro-lifers look uneducated.

reply from: fetalisa

Somebody here does get it.

reply from: BossMomma

Somebody here does get it.
I recognize that the Holocaust was the ultimate hate crime, women who abort do not hate the unborn child, they simply do not want to be pregnant. That doesn't justify killing them when adoption is a viable option. The fact remains that millions suffered and died in the holocaust and Hitler was doing his best to kill EVERY jew, Every homosexual, Every Gypsy etc.
In the case of the unborn just as many pregnant women choose life and adoption, hence our overloaded foster system. For abortion to be a holocaust Every unborn child would have to be aborted by law. I do not support abortion, but I will not call a thing what it is not and find it highly offensive when people use such a sensitive and unrelated event to further their agenda.

reply from: fetalisa

What legal argument justifies forcing women to carry to term and adopt? Am I missing something or do I still live in a free society?
Which is a practical reason why forcing women to carry to term and adopt is absurd.
Smart choice on your part. When unrealistic and absurd claims such as 'abortion is a holocaust,' 'abortion is murder' or unborn=person' are claimed, it turns the public off. We have heard it for 35 years and still aren't buying it, because we know you can't freeze people for years, thaw them out and have them live, like you can with embryos. The public isn't stupid enough to fall for such nonsense, especially in the information age with untold volumes of data at our fingertips.

reply from: BossMomma

What legal argument justifies forcing women to carry to term and adopt? Am I missing something or do I still live in a free society?
Which is a practical reason why forcing women to carry to term and adopt is absurd.
Smart choice on your part. When unrealistic and absurd claims such as 'abortion is a holocaust,' 'abortion is murder' or unborn=person' are claimed, it turns the public off. We have heard it for 35 years and still aren't buying it, because we know you can't freeze people for years, thaw them out and have them live, like you can with embryos. The public isn't stupid enough to fall for such nonsense, especially in the information age with untold volumes of data at our fingertips.
Actually considering that cryogenics is so restricted we have no idea whether or not a grown person could survive being frozen and thawed. Take away political and legal terms and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. A fetus is genetically identical to an adult, I do not base my stand on politics, but rather on the simple fact that a human being is a human being and to view it as something else based on location and means of sustinance is absurd.

reply from: fetalisa

Until I see a person survive it for as long as embryos can, I have no reason to believe it possible for people to survive cryogenics.
But I would. There is a vast difference in results between someone killing a spouse and aborting an unborn.
Actually, to pretend there are no differences between the unborn and born are absurd. The voters of Colorado clearly see the distinctions, by a margin of 75% to 24% so far, with 15% of precincts reporting. So no matter how much you wish to paint my views as absurd, you can't change the fact that the public, not just in this society, but it NUMEROUS societies before ours, also noted the difference. The only countries that seem to agree with your views are places like Iran.

reply from: BossMomma

Until I see a person survive it for as long as embryos can, I have no reason to believe it possible for people to survive cryogenics.
But I would. There is a vast difference in results between someone killing a spouse and aborting an unborn.
Actually, to pretend there are no differences between the unborn and born are absurd. The voters of Colorado clearly see the distinctions, by a margin of 75% to 24% so far, with 15% of precincts reporting. So no matter how much you wish to paint my views as absurd, you can't change the fact that the public, not just in this society, but it NUMEROUS societies before ours, also noted the difference. The only countries that seem to agree with your views are places like Iran.
I'm a Texan, I don't give a flying rats furry ass about what they say in Colorado, I also don't care about what percentage disagrees with me. If Iran agrees with me that's great, Iranians are human beings too. Genetically a fetus is a homosapian, genetically you are a homosapian unless somehow they taught a jack ass to type. There is no difference between a 6 month fetus and a preemie born at the same gestational age, that's good enough for me.

reply from: fetalisa

Wow! No wonder abortion is legal 35 years after Roe if this is the best of the arguments the forced birthers can present.
Then you can surely understand why abortion is not banned, since an overwhelming majority of the population (3 to 1 in Colorado) do not buy the unborn=person argument, nor the abortion=murder argument. It is clear our legal system does not buy those arguments either. Your views ARE from the minority fringes of our society, so there is no reason whatsoever to expect others to hold your views, nor vote for them.
Which leaves us exactly where we started. If you don't like abortion, don't have one.

reply from: nancyu

Somebody here does get it.
I recognize that the Holocaust was the ultimate hate crime, women who abort do not hate the unborn child, they simply do not want to be pregnant. That doesn't justify killing them when adoption is a viable option. The fact remains that millions suffered and died in the holocaust and Hitler was doing his best to kill EVERY jew, Every homosexual, Every Gypsy etc.
In the case of the unborn just as many pregnant women choose life and adoption, hence our overloaded foster system. For abortion to be a holocaust Every unborn child would have to be aborted by law. I do not support abortion, but I will not call a thing what it is not and find it highly offensive when people use such a sensitive and unrelated event to further their agenda.
The hate crime comes, not necessarily from the woman who aborts. It comes from those who encourage her to do so, by telling her it is okay if she chooses to do so. These attitudes remain from Hitler's time. Do you think that everyone who killed Jews hated them? I'm sure they didn't know each one personally. Maybe they just wanted there to be fewer of them.
Abortion is a related event. Hitler wanted to encourage anyone who wasn't Germanic to abort their children. He did a good job didn't he? With a little help from Margaret Sanger and her eugenic cohorts, he has most of the people in the world thinking it's acceptable to kill their own children. Especially those who aren't genetically perfect, or those who might be born in poverty.

reply from: Rosalie

Somebody here does get it.
I recognize that the Holocaust was the ultimate hate crime, women who abort do not hate the unborn child, they simply do not want to be pregnant. That doesn't justify killing them when adoption is a viable option. The fact remains that millions suffered and died in the holocaust and Hitler was doing his best to kill EVERY jew, Every homosexual, Every Gypsy etc.
In the case of the unborn just as many pregnant women choose life and adoption, hence our overloaded foster system. For abortion to be a holocaust Every unborn child would have to be aborted by law. I do not support abortion, but I will not call a thing what it is not and find it highly offensive when people use such a sensitive and unrelated event to further their agenda.
The hate crime comes, not necessarily from the woman who aborts. It comes from those who encourage her to do so, by telling her it is okay if she chooses to do so. These attitudes remain from Hitler's time. Do you think that everyone who killed Jews hated them? I'm sure they didn't know each one personally. Maybe they just wanted there to be fewer of them.
Abortion is a related event. Hitler wanted to encourage anyone who wasn't Germanic to abort their children. He did a good job didn't he? With a little help from Margaret Sanger and her eugenic cohorts, he has most of the people in the world thinking it's acceptable to kill their own children. Especially those who aren't genetically perfect, or those who might be born in poverty.
There is no hate involved. It is about women's rights, not a hate crime or systematic assassination of fetuses. It's interesting that you have to make up arguments in order to be capable of answering them.

reply from: BossMomma

Wow! No wonder abortion is legal 35 years after Roe if this is the best of the arguments the forced birthers can present.
Then you can surely understand why abortion is not banned, since an overwhelming majority of the population (3 to 1 in Colorado) do not buy the unborn=person argument, nor the abortion=murder argument. It is clear our legal system does not buy those arguments either. Your views ARE from the minority fringes of our society, so there is no reason whatsoever to expect others to hold your views, nor vote for them.
Which leaves us exactly where we started. If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
If you don't want kids, don't get knocked up.

reply from: fetalisa

Abortion is not a hate crime, no more than killing non-sentient, non-conscious, non-persons in the form of weeds or mosquitos is a hate crime.
How is it a hate crime to tell people abortion is ok, given the Colorado voters rejection, via 74% of the votes, of personhood for the unborn and South Dakota's rejection of an abortion ban for all cases except rape, incest or health of the mother? Our society clearly rejects the forced birthers ideology that an unborn is a person and that abortion=murder. This means the forced birthers never bothered to ask themselves how the rest of society feels on these issues. Obviously, your views are not the only views held in this country, as the Colorado case clearly demonstrates.
Utter falsehood. Abortion has been practiced throughout history and wasn't even banned in the US when this country was founded, except for a few states.
The voters do not buy the absurd and fanciful notion that unborn=person, as Colorado proves. The voters see the vast differences between killing a spouse and aborting an unborn, whether you forced birthers wish to pretend those differences exist or not.
Yet, the forced birthers couldn't even manage 1/4 of the voters to sign onto the idea the unborn=persons. What might that tell you about the validity of your position and the quality of the arguments you forced birthers have trotted out to the public for 35 years since Roe? What is the definition of repeating the same arguments year after year, when it is so blatantly obvious those arguments aren't working to win the hearts and minds of the public?

reply from: yoda

IF you are, then does that make you "right" on every issue you debate here?
Or do your arguments have to stand up to the scrutiny of other prolifers here who disagree with you?
(Hint: now it's your turn to dodge every issue I've raised and make some more nasty comments to divert the discussion away from your failed arguments again.)

reply from: yoda

That is irrelevant. No one is suggesting that abortion is a "hate crime", just that it results in an even worse outcome than the Holocaust did, in raw numbers.
You can't make abortion less horrific by defending it's results, can you?

reply from: BossMomma

IF you are, then does that make you "right" on every issue you debate here?
Or do your arguments have to stand up to the scrutiny of other prolifers here who disagree with you?
(Hint: now it's your turn to dodge every issue I've raised and make some more nasty comments to divert the discussion away from your failed arguments again.)
My argument is valid, I don't have to be a screaming imbecile with no common sense to be pro-life. I really don't care if you disagree or not, several people, pro-life and pro-choice disagree with you. I've pointed out valid differences between abortion and the holocaust, you've grasped at straws trying to refute them.

reply from: fetalisa

Why don't you? Isn't that the first requirement of joining the forced birth movement?
The voters disagree with your by a wide margin.
The voters certainly refuted your hair-brained notions of morality.

reply from: yoda

"Differences" are immaterial to the point. EVERY comparison is IMPERFECT, didn't you learn that in school?
You have made no points that refute the COMMONALITIES between abortion and the Holocaust, none at all.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I'm still waiting to hear who this "Rev. Laurence Wright" is - gee, I can google my OWN name and various things come up, but googling his name leads only to HERE.
Does this man even exist? Forget about "YouTube", I'm not a teenager and I don't do that, MySpace or Facebook or any of that crap. ANYONE can post a video on YouTube. ANYONE. AT. ALL.

reply from: BossMomma

"Differences" are immaterial to the point. EVERY comparison is IMPERFECT, didn't you learn that in school?
You have made no points that refute the COMMONALITIES between abortion and the Holocaust, none at all.
There are no commonalities between abortion and the holocaust, none at all, just a group of rampant religious fanatics grasping at whatever they can to try and further their agenda. Abortion is wrong in it's own right, it doesn't need to be compared to something completely unrelated.

reply from: BossMomma

http://www.hiswayministries.org/fdsilence.htm here ya go River

reply from: fetalisa

There are no commonalities between the holocaust and abortion, because the unborn are not people as the following examples illustrate demonstrate:
1. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/12/earlyshow/main1203514.shtml
Candace Wilkinson, of Phoenix, claimed her fetus should count as the second "person" in the car with her in the lane reserved for carpoolers.
She paid the fine regardless.
2. http://www.sentinel.org/node/9545
How can embryos be either persons or innocent, when a judge considers them community property and has them destroyed? The husband originally argued regarding 'pain at the demise of one's children,' but then switched his argument on appeal, claiming unfair distribution of community property.
3. http://www.lifenews.com/state3620.html
In the end, Colorado voters defeated Amendment 48 by a 73.5-26.5 percentage margin with 57 percent of the vote counted.
By an almost 3 to 1 margin, the Colorado voters rejected the hair-brained notion the unborn are persons in a LANDSLIDE.
4. http://www.lifenews.com/nat4542.html
Under an Obama administration pro-life advocates expect the new president to force taxpayer-funding of abortions, make detrimental Supreme Court appointments and sign a Congressional bill to overturn pro-life laws nationwide.
Obama, who very obviously supports abortion rights, was voted in as president by American voters, and not by a thin margin either.
5. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647
ALL OF THE ABOVE clearly prove, beyond all doubt, our society does not equate the unborns with persons and do not consider the unborn to be 'innocent.'
#4 above happened after it was widely reported as to Obama's views on abortion rights, even with the press claiming Obama is more pro-choice than NARAL.
6. http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/04/south-dakota-abortion-ban-fails/
With about one-third of the precincts reporting, Initiated Measure 11 was losing with 55 percent of the votes against it.
How could the South Dakota voters possibly view the unborn as persons or abortion as murder or equal to the holocaust, when this measure was defeated and not by a thin margin either?
So how in the world anyone could seriously compare the holocaust to abortion, one can not know. Everywhere you look in our society, whether it be counting persons in a census, pregnant women driving in the HOV lane, embryos in divorce battles, America's choice of president, or that president's decisively prochoice views, or voters rejecting unborn personhood in Colorado, and South Dakota rejecting an abortion ban, it becomes quite clear the public;
1. Does not hold the unborn to be persons
2. Does not hold the unborn to be innocent
3. Does not agree abortion equals murder
The voters have spoken quite clearly in this election, in a manner that easily demonstrates there is no comparison whatsoever between abortion and the holocaust.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Thanks, BossMomma. It's an eight-year-old speech and the Rev. is probably dead by now, if he was alive for Kristalnacht.

reply from: joe

Abortion is nowhere near the magnitude of a holocaust, comparing it as such is insulting. My Great Grandfather died at Auschwitz for harboring Jews during the holocaust, please do not cheapen his memory.
To say that the Jewish Holocaust is worse than the Abortion Holocaust offends those who care for the unborn. Dishonoring the millions who are slaughtered and burned with no chance in life and then spit on by pro-choice advocates.
The Abortion Holocaust eclipses the Jewish Holocaust in total carnage and the pro-choice advocates would make the Nazis blush with their vile rhetoric. If the truth is to hard to handle then maybe this issue is not for you.

reply from: Nulono

This is why I hate Godwin's Law. Legitimate comparisons are dismissed.

reply from: Nulono

I know. The more stupid comparisons, the less legitimate ones are respected. It's The Boy Who Cried Nazi.

reply from: Nulono

I KNOW THAT!!!
However, it states that as a thread increases in size, the chance of Hitler/Nazis being mentioned increases.
Many of said comparisons are stupid. The more stupid comparisons, the less legitimate ones are respected. It's The Boy Who Cried Nazi.

reply from: fetalisa

If you don't like abortion, don't have one. In a free society, each lives by the dictates of their own conscience. You don't want to live in a free society. You want everyone else, by force of law, to live according to the dictates of your conscience.

reply from: fetalisa

I say let the forced birthers compare abortion to the holocaust. Given the success (as in recent elections) they have had with the abortion=murder and unborn=person equations, it serves our interests to have them add the abortion=holocaust logical fallacy to the list of others.
The more wild and extreme the claims of the forced birthers on the minority fringes of society, the less likely the public is to buy into it. Besides, accusing the 75% of the public who supports abortion of being baby-killers, just isn't entertaining enough anymore.

reply from: BossMomma

If you don't like abortion, don't have one. In a free society, each lives by the dictates of their own conscience. You don't want to live in a free society. You want everyone else, by force of law, to live according to the dictates of your conscience.
If you don't want kids, don't get knocked up. In a responsible society an innocent life should not have to die for your sex life. I don't have to accept abortion anymore than you have to accept birth, you told me what to do first, I responded in kind with something equally obtuse.

reply from: fetalisa

I don't. I personally recommend birth control, or oral and anal sex for those who don't want kids.
In a free society, one has the freedom to be responsible or irresponsible. In a free society, one has the freedom to do things others don't like or find immoral. I choose to live in a free society.
Who cares? You get pregnant next month, next year, next whenever if you abort today.
I accept birth, abortion or adoption, no matter which a woman chooses.
It's a free society, so you have every right to fight for what you believe. I have every right to point out the absurdities in your arguments. Voters have the right to reject abortion bans or hair-brained amendments that define unborn as persons from conception.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Rev. Laurence White. White as in the color white. I googled him and he is indeed there. I corrected both his first and last name in my previous post. Are you accusing me of mixing him up with Obama's minister Jeremiah Wright?
Are you making up a list of anti-abortion extremists or something? I assume use of words is considered extreme.

reply from: BossMomma

I don't. I personally recommend birth control, or oral and anal sex for those who don't want kids.
In a free society, one has the freedom to be responsible or irresponsible. In a free society, one has the freedom to do things others don't like or find immoral. I choose to live in a free society.
Who cares? You get pregnant next month, next year, next whenever if you abort today.
I accept birth, abortion or adoption, no matter which a woman chooses.
It's a free society, so you have every right to fight for what you believe. I have every right to point out the absurdities in your arguments. Voters have the right to reject abortion bans or hair-brained amendments that define unborn as persons from conception.
Personhood is a legal title not applicable to the unborn, I never claimed the unborn were persons (at least not until viability) because their future is rather uncertain. However, they are human beings indefinantly. I do not need legal terms or political titles to justify being pro-life. I believe that an unborn child has as much right to live as the woman who came before it. We are not some supreme being because our cords were cut long ago.
I believe in alternatives to vaginal sex as well, though I must say anal sex is too much like taking a dump in reverse. I also believe in natural family planning, contraception, abstinance and, RU486. Abortion just isn't a choice I support.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Oh good, you are still alive.
I was worried you'd flipped out over Obama winning and had gone on a rampage with a machete and a handgun.
A person needed a twenty-four hour mourning period.
I do not own a machete (or sword) or handgun.

reply from: sheri

Vex, I think youve got God mixed up with santa. Take a moment and answer honestly, Why did God make you?

reply from: Nulono

http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/Answers.cfm?ID=16

Claim: The issue is whether we trust women to be their own moral agents.
Rebuttal: Among the millions of people in the pro-life movement, the vast majority are women, including most of its leaders. To suggest that this female-dominated entity seeks to squash other women, or doesn't trust women, would be silly if it were not so condescending. This is just another shabby tactic the abortion lobby uses to keep from having to defend abortion.
To understand how truly asinine this "trust women" rhetoric is, imagine someone opposing laws against rape or incest because he "trusts men to be their own moral agents."
Or imagine that a woman is scheduled to have an abortion tomorrow, but gives birth in her home today. If the baby survives, should she be allowed to kill it? After all, the child was going to be killed the next day anyway. Why should she lose her "right to choose" because of a premature delivery that was completely beyond her control? Is she only allowed to pay someone else to kill her baby, but not allowed to kill it herself? Are we saying that we only trust women to make good moral decisions while they're pregnant?
If we are supposed to just blindly trust women, why not trust them across the board? Let each woman make her own moral choice about whether to stop at red lights, embezzle money from her employer, write bad checks, use cocaine, or become a prostitute. Let's also exempt all female business owners from discrimination laws which make it illegal for companies to refuse employment or service to minorities. In fact, since every law on the books prevents women from choosing to engage in a particular activity and says that women can't be trusted to make that decision, shouldn't the pro-choice mob be screaming that women should be exempted from all laws? Do they trust women or don't they?
The reality is that the only reason for the law to even exist is because people - men and women - can't be trusted to always do what's right. Laws are necessary to keep them from inflicting their immoral decisions on others.
Clearly, this "trust women" rhetoric is a sham. By using the term "moral agents" to describe women who submit to abortion, the pro-choice gang hopes to create the illusion that women who pay to have their children slaughtered do so out of some kind of moral conviction. It's just a rhetorical shell-game to make abortion seem morally defensible.

reply from: Rosalie

You reference a website called "Death to Roe"? And you think that's a valid source?
You're so funny.

reply from: Rosalie

My mistake. It doesn't change anything about it being a crappy, laughable "source".

reply from: Nulono

Oh, I see. I can only use sources that agree with YOU (the government, etc.) but not ones that agree with ME.
And, had I paraphrased that argument and not linked to it, you would have at least refuted it.

reply from: fetalisa

As IF a woman's constitutional rights hinges on your trust. Oh how you WISH!

reply from: fetalisa

That's what I don't understand. If you hate abortion that much, go live somewhere that hates it as much as you do, like Iran, El Salvador or Poland. Hell, Iran is perfect, since they execute gays, just like the bible says. Go live there, because we the people will not recognize something smaller than a fly as a person, NOT EVER!

reply from: fetalisa

Don't you find it odd that we have just as much evidence for your god as we have evidence for leprechauns or elves? What might that tell you?

reply from: ProInformed

I found some pro-life t-shirts online with pictures of black preborn babies and messages about the racist agenda and effect of abortion.

reply from: sheri

Vex, God made you to know, love and serve Him, and to be happy with Him in Heaven for ever. This truth should give you comfort, but your rejection of it is at odds with your peace of mind.
"We were made by You, Oh God, and our hearts are restless untill they rest in You."

reply from: sheri

bringing up the fact that most cultures invented their own deity in answer to the inherent inner call to worship God, only reinforces my belief that God does exist. He does give us an intense desire to "know, love and serve", that is why in the absense of revealed truth, cultures will answer that innner call to the best of their ability, hence all kinds of strange gods.

reply from: fetalisa

HAHAHA! You say some of the funniest S#%T! I wish more New Zealanders were in America, but why in the world would they come to this backwater of a country? South Korea has better broadband!

reply from: nancyu

According to Biden in the Vice Presidential debate, Obama is opposed to gay marriage.

reply from: Nulono

Like that's the ONLY issue they'd vote on!

reply from: Nulono

Lessee...
Holocaust victims: 11 million
Legalized abortion victims: almost 50 million and another WTC and then some every day...
I guess you're right. It's nowhere NEAR Holocaust level. It's, like, 4 times Holocaust level.
44 million is NOWHERE NEAR 11 million!

reply from: BossMomma

Lessee...
Holocaust victims: 11 million
Legalized abortion victims: almost 50 million and another WTC and then some every day...
I guess you're right. It's nowhere NEAR Holocaust level. It's, like, 4 times Holocaust level.
44 million is NOWHERE NEAR 11 million!
Okay then, ask a holocaust survivor who suffered more pain and indignity. Those who left the concentration camps alive were left with the horrible memories, some to the point that they suffered post traumatic stress disorders requiring therupy and medications. You try telling a holocaust survivor that a first trimester embryo with no conciousness and no pain centers suffered as much as they did and felt the same hate and degradation. There is no comparing the savage hatred of the holocaust to abortion unless it becomes law that the unborn must be eliminated and wiped from the earth.

reply from: socratease

Those who perished in tho holocaust suffered much more than the babies killed by abortion.
As a prolifer, I could concede that point.
Should we therefore be proud that the 50,000,000 we killed in the US were done outside of the concentration camps and legally, and that if there was any suffering by those who perished, it was for a short time?
I believe much of the comparison to the holocaust has to do with the large numbers that have been killed.

reply from: Nulono

The holocaust was legal.

reply from: Nulono

The holocaust was legal.

reply from: joe

There is no greater hatred than a mother killing her own child.
What kind of sick and twisted individual walks into a clinic to tear apart and burn their own child. Only one full of hate for the victim.

reply from: BossMomma

There is no greater hatred than a mother killing her own child.
What kind of sick and twisted individual walks into a clinic to tear apart and burn their own child. Only one full of hate for the victim.
My sister had an abortion, she didn't hate the child she simply didn't feel she could handle another baby on her own. If more men would own up to their sperm maybe so many women wouldn't feel the same way. My mother had an abortion at the age of 15 because her tyrant mother forced her to. You don't know what you're talking about.

reply from: fetalisa

It will never happen.
How can it be hatred, when all abortion kills is property?
http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/news/ivf-embryo-destruction.html
How can that be when the unborn are not persons?
http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/1075082 Alexander v. Whitman

reply from: joe

I know one thing...when I see a bag full of baby parts caused by their own mothers, I see hatred. I see hatred for the unborn that "got in the way". I see evil and and no amount of excuses will justify their deaths.
I agree, a real man would defend his own child. Those spineless cowards that force death on their own offspring are not men.

reply from: joe

I was under the impression you believe in science. The unborn are clearly a separate living entity that have their own DNA.
Is property living? Does property have human DNA? Are you an Idiot?

reply from: fetalisa

If they were separate, they wouldn't need a womb to survive. Thus, they aren't separate.
Is a frozen embryo 'living?'
My skin cells do. Are they my property, even those that get washed down the drain in the shower?
I can see the difference between born and unborn so I very obviously am not the idiot here.

reply from: BossMomma

I know one thing...when I see a bag full of baby parts caused by their own mothers, I see hatred. I see hatred for the unborn that "got in the way". I see evil and and no amount of excuses will justify their deaths.
I agree, a real man would defend his own child. Those spineless cowards that force death on their own offspring are not men.
If you see hatred you're blind as a bat.

reply from: joe

If they were separate, they wouldn't need a womb to survive. Thus, they aren't separate.
Is this science?? Sounds like your uneducated and mistaken opinion.

reply from: joe

What do you call it....tough love.

reply from: joe

Your skin cells have their own human DNA!!!

reply from: BossMomma

What do you call it....tough love.
I call it desperation, fear, hopelessness and, in some cases indifference. I've spoken to many a woman who has aborted once or multiple times and none of them hated their unborn.

reply from: joe

What do you call it....tough love.
I call it desperation, fear, hopelessness and, in some cases indifference. I've spoken to many a woman who has aborted once or multiple times and none of them hated their unborn.
I am sure some people have used the same emotions to justify killing their born children as well.
It takes hatred to kill a innocent human being whether it is acknowledged or not. There is no such thing as lovingly ripping apart your own child.

reply from: BossMomma

What do you call it....tough love.
I call it desperation, fear, hopelessness and, in some cases indifference. I've spoken to many a woman who has aborted once or multiple times and none of them hated their unborn.
I am sure some people have used the same emotions to justify killing their born children as well.
It takes hatred to kill a innocent human being whether it is acknowledged or not. There is no such thing as lovingly ripping apart your own child.
As I said, you don't know what your talking about. You are as ignorant as you are judgemental.

reply from: joe

What do you call it....tough love.
I call it desperation, fear, hopelessness and, in some cases indifference. I've spoken to many a woman who has aborted once or multiple times and none of them hated their unborn.
I am sure some people have used the same emotions to justify killing their born children as well.
It takes hatred to kill a innocent human being whether it is acknowledged or not. There is no such thing as lovingly ripping apart your own child.
As I said, you don't know what your talking about. You are as ignorant as you are judgemental.
Ignorant? It takes me one second to know when I see a dismembered unborn, that I am looking at act of evil an act of hate. I do not give a damn about the reasons why that unborn was slaughtered, the fact is he or she was brutally killed. I will judge evil every time I see it...period.
When the mother claims ignorance...maybe so, but in the current age where it takes less than one minute to see what abortion is...that excuse is now void.

reply from: nancyu

Lessee...
Holocaust victims: 11 million
Legalized abortion victims: almost 50 million and another WTC and then some every day...
I guess you're right. It's nowhere NEAR Holocaust level. It's, like, 4 times Holocaust level.
44 million is NOWHERE NEAR 11 million!
Okay then, ask a holocaust survivor who suffered more pain and indignity. Those who left the concentration camps alive were left with the horrible memories, some to the point that they suffered post traumatic stress disorders requiring therupy and medications. You try telling a holocaust survivor that a first trimester embryo with no conciousness and no pain centers suffered as much as they did and felt the same hate and degradation. There is no comparing the savage hatred of the holocaust to abortion unless it becomes law that the unborn must be eliminated and wiped from the earth.
Try telling that to an abortion survivor.

reply from: nancyu

I was under the impression you believe in science. The unborn are clearly a separate living entity that have their own DNA.
Is property living? Does property have human DNA? Are you an Idiot?
Yes he (or she) (or it) is an idiot.

reply from: joe

I was under the impression you believe in science. The unborn are clearly a separate living entity that have their own DNA.
Is property living? Does property have human DNA? Are you an Idiot?
Yes he (or she) (or it) is an idiot.

reply from: nancyu

There is no greater hatred than a mother killing her own child.
What kind of sick and twisted individual walks into a clinic to tear apart and burn their own child. Only one full of hate for the victim.
My sister had an abortion, she didn't hate the child she simply didn't feel she could handle another baby on her own. If more men would own up to their sperm maybe so many women wouldn't feel the same way. My mother had an abortion at the age of 15 because her tyrant mother forced her to. You don't know what you're talking about.
Did your sister love her child? Did your sister like her child? Did she abort because the father wouldn't "own up" to "his sperm"? Is that what her child was to her? Some sperm of a deadbeat dad?

reply from: fetalisa

How is any of that your business? Keep your nose in your own uterus, not others.

reply from: fetalisa

It sure is, because without the womb, it is dead, up to the age of viability. So you can pretend all you wish that it exists separate from the mother, but neither science nor the law is fooled.

reply from: fetalisa

Anyone of which can be cloned to produce new 'life.' So now, according to forced birth mythology, every time I shower I am a mass murderer.

reply from: joe

Anyone of which can be cloned to produce new 'life.' So now, according to forced birth mythology, every time I shower I am a mass murderer.
It is still your DNA idiot. Unlike the separate DNA the unborn has.

reply from: joe

It sure is, because without the womb, it is dead, up to the age of viability. So you can pretend all you wish that it exists separate from the mother, but neither science nor the law is fooled.
Provide scientific proof that the unborn are not a separate entity. You do believe in science..right?

reply from: fetalisa

You provide scientific evidence an unborn can survive outside the womb, prior to viability, and no, I am not talking about frozen embryos or IVF.

reply from: CharlesD

There are no scientific arguments for the killing of the unborn. All the arguments presented here keep drawing from court decisions, which have been shown to be subject to change throughout history and fallible. Science shows that a living human being is present from the point of conception. There is no refutation for that fact. That is why they have to resort to the personhood arguments, which are really pretty silly since it's impossible to be a human being and not a person. Humans are personal beings, thus they are persons. You can argue semantics all you want, but that fact doesn't change.

reply from: fetalisa

There is no scientific proof that personhood begins at conception, and that's really what 'life begins at conception' means.
That does not change one iota the FACTS the unborn aren't persons and are property.
That doesn't make it a person. Your real argument is that personhood begins at conception anyway, which science can never prove. So you don't have a leg to stand on. Whether life exists or not is not the issue.
Your argument assumes personhood, So your own argument is silly, by your own admission.
It's very possible, because that is exactly the case in this country.
You can argue all you want, but it is FACT the unborn aren't persons. That's exactly why abortion has been legal for 35 years.

reply from: nancyu

How is any of that your business? Keep your nose in your own uterus, not others.
My nose is not in anyone's uterus. I'm responding on a public forum, to a comment made on a public forum.
If you don't like it get lost and keep your nonperson snotwad tissue self out of my face.

reply from: fetalisa

You sure do get touchy when it is pointed out to you that what other women do with their bodies and the choices they make with their bodies is not your business.

reply from: ProInformed

I hear ya BossMomma.
LOTS of parents, bosses, husbands/boyfriends, teachers, and abortion clinic 'counselors' exert considerable influence and even coercion to get women to abort.
EVERYONE, pro-life and pro-'choice', needs to acknowledge that happens.
To their credit, most pro-lifers do realize that many women who abort do so because they've been lied to and pressured to.
I'ts almost impossible to find a pro-'choicist' who acknowledges that though, and even rarer to find a choicist who will speak out to condemn such pro-abort/anti-choice deception and coercion.

reply from: BossMomma

There is no greater hatred than a mother killing her own child.
What kind of sick and twisted individual walks into a clinic to tear apart and burn their own child. Only one full of hate for the victim.
My sister had an abortion, she didn't hate the child she simply didn't feel she could handle another baby on her own. If more men would own up to their sperm maybe so many women wouldn't feel the same way. My mother had an abortion at the age of 15 because her tyrant mother forced her to. You don't know what you're talking about.
Did your sister love her child? Did your sister like her child? Did she abort because the father wouldn't "own up" to "his sperm"? Is that what her child was to her? Some sperm of a deadbeat dad?
No, and I don't appreciate you talking about her that way. She aborted because she was a single parent with a one year old to support, she was working day and night as a waitress and I was sometimes skipping school to help her with her daughter just so she could get a few hours sleep. She was barely pulling in enough to pay her rent, bills, plus her daughters needs with no child support from the first dead beat dad. My sister was a ***** trooper but she just didn't see a way of continuing to work so hard while pregnant, she couldn't afford to take time off to recover after the birth of the baby and so saw no other way.

reply from: BossMomma

Well, like my boyfriend he faded in the stretch. No one had him figured for a dead beat. My sister feels awful for the abortion but she will never be judged by me, I'm there as a supporter and a shoulder to cry on and I do not feel that she should live in guilt and shame. The fact remains that she did not abort out of hate for the unborn.

reply from: SRUW4I5

What do you call it....tough love.
I call it desperation, fear, hopelessness and, in some cases indifference. I've spoken to many a woman who has aborted once or multiple times and none of them hated their unborn.
I am sure some people have used the same emotions to justify killing their born children as well.
It takes hatred to kill a innocent human being whether it is acknowledged or not. There is no such thing as lovingly ripping apart your own child.
When I was pregnant and had an abortion at 16 I was never told it was a child. No one, not even my pro-life mom, told me it was anything but a clump of cells. I kind of wish someone had, but I can't change the past. I don't hate anyone, if I had known it wasn't just a clump of cells, I wouldn't have aborted it. I also knew it was causing me problems (like my doctor said, it isn't healthy to lose 6-15 pounds every week , especially not while pregnant).

reply from: joe

I understand and in no way disrespect your sorrow.
I stand for the unborn and the failure of your pro-life mom to speak the truth is what really gets to me about pro-lifers and emotions. This is why the pro-life movement will always remain insignificant. We need to start caring about human life more than the feelings of those about to kill. I do not know your circumstances and you seem repentant but my point is, in this day and age someone only needs one minute to know what abortion is. Those who claim ignorance now, do so because they choose to be ignorant.

reply from: joe

No one would.
BS. You pro choice advocates know it is human life and you stated you don't give a damn. Sounds pretty hateful to me.

reply from: joe

You provide scientific evidence an unborn can survive outside the womb, prior to viability, and no, I am not talking about frozen embryos or IVF.
Scared? We were not discussing dependence on the mother, you know what my point is...why lie?

reply from: fetalisa

Abortion kills non-sentient, non-conscious, non-persons, no different if one kills a mosquito or weed. Big whoop.

reply from: joe

Sounds hateful to me ^^^. Considering how they kill "non-person" human beings and then comparing them to mosquitoes.
What other historic event had this type of rhetoric???

reply from: fetalisa

Why would I be scared when I have seen this bovine fecal matter a thousand times before?
Who's lying here? I know exactly how the forced birth semantic games work. You know as well as I an unborn can not exist or live without a womb. Yet the entire point of this forced birth scam, is no different than any other forced birth scam. Which is to confuse the separateness of the unborn with it's inability to exist separate from the mother.
The only problem here is I have seen this crap 1000 times before, so didn't fall for it.
Got any other word games you'd like to play? Like discussing how rights of slaves were denied as the unborn rights are denied, in order to pretend the two issues are the same, when it is clear that slaves were not denied rights because they have not been born?
Or perhaps you would like to play who is the child killer? That's the one where you ask if one would kill a two year old as a 'child' is killed in abortion. That one, too, depends on pretending there exists no difference between born and unborn, when the differences are blatantly obvious to any halfwit with a brain. That one won't work either, because children are counted in a census as all persons are, while the unborn are not, because they are not persons.
Now if you actually had some NEW forced birth analogy that hinged on confusing terms, that I had never heard of before, you might have been able to get away with it.
It's just so funny how 35 years after Roe, you forced birthers think slop like this will convince any beyond the most ignorant and gullible who have already fallen for it.
Better luck next time.

reply from: BossMomma

No one would.
BS. You pro choice advocates know it is human life and you stated you don't give a damn. Sounds pretty hateful to me.
I'm pro-life you imbecile.

reply from: joe

Why would I be scared when I have seen this bovine fecal matter a thousand times before?
Run......before you realize the truth.

reply from: joe

No one would.
BS. You pro choice advocates know it is human life and you stated you don't give a damn. Sounds pretty hateful to me.
I'm pro-life you imbecile.
Was my post directed at you??? Answer: No.

reply from: joe

Who's lying here? I know exactly how the forced birth semantic games work. You know as well as I an unborn can not exist or live without a womb. Yet the entire point of this forced birth scam, is no different than any other forced birth scam. Which is to confuse the separateness of the unborn with it's inability to exist separate from the mother.
I am not playing a game...you are deliberately ignoring what you know that statement meant. (Maybe I am giving you too much credit.)

reply from: CharlesD

A mosquito or a weed are not and never will be a human being. Huge difference there.
It is wrong to kill innocent human beings, regardless of whether or not those humans meet an arbitrary man made definition of personhood. It is not up to us to decide that certain humans are not persons any more than we can decide that certain types or oranges are not fruit.

reply from: fetalisa

Why do human beings carry greater weight than a weed or a mosquito? Doesn't the weed or mosquito have just as much right to live as the human?
Alright, why is it wrong to kill a frozen embryo by thawing? What is the harm in that? How is it any different than killing a mosquito?
How can we 'decide' what is blatantly obvious? Can we 'decide' the sky is blue, when the color of it is so blatantly obvious? It is blatantly obvious a frozen embryo is not a person. That is not something one 'decides,' because that is what IS.

reply from: socratease

Have they ever asked for any rights?
I'll check the internet to see if there has been any mosquito petitions.

reply from: CharlesD

Can you show me evidence, other than the opinion of a judge, that an embryo is not a person. I'm talking scientific evidence here, not someone's opinion. Every definition of personhood you have offered is an arbitrary definition based on someone's opinion, not on actual scientific evidence. A human is a person. If it was so blatantly obvious, then we wouldn't be debating it.

reply from: fetalisa

Have the unborn ever asked for any rights?
Check it for unborn petitions when you are done, OK?

reply from: fetalisa

Negative proof is a logical fallacy. If you claim an embryo is a person, then the burden is on you to prove that claim.
You are being foolish. Science can not prove personhood, which is precisely why the idea that 'life begins at conception,' is not scientifically valid in the intended meaning of its use by the prolifers.
Yours is just as arbitrary. It's opinion and an opinion that many in our society do not share.
It is not blatantly obvious a frozen embryo is a person. What evidence do you have to demonstrate that it is?

reply from: Rosalie

BossMomma, your logic isn't logical. Hitler wasn't killing all of the humans when he tried to eliminate the Jews either. Only the ones he considered undesirable.
Hitler was trying to eliminate ALL THE JEWS. No one is out to eliminate ALL THE FETUSES.
If you have some sort of secret contraception device that
1) is available to everyone
2) is not causing any side-effects to anyone
3) is 100% reliable
--please share. I'm sure the entire world will be delighted.
The problem is that an obviously biased website can never be a valid source.
Barack Obama and Gay Rights in Illinois:
Barack Obama supported gay rights during his Illinois Senate tenure. He sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Gays in the Military:
Barack Obama believes we need to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."
Gay & Lesbian Adoption:
Barack Obama believes gays and lesbians should have the same rights to adopt children as heterosexuals.
Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions:
Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."
Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.
He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.
"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."

reply from: nancyu

The thing I don't get is that it IS blatantly obvious. Why is it a debate?
EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS EVER BEEN PREGNANT AND GIVEN BIRTH HAS GIVEN BIRTH TO A HUMAN BEING, NOT A TREE, OR AN ELEPHANT, OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN A PERSON.
An unborn child is a person. A person is a human being, a human being is a person. There are even http://www.lifeissues.org/windows.htmlpictures. How much MORE proof do we need? Do the choicers have even you believing that this is still open to debate?
Unborn children are persons. It is illegal to murder them.

reply from: nancyu

http://lifedynamics.com/DeathCamps/Holocaust.cfm


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