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I'm back

an explaination for my absense

by: BossMomma

Hey folks, as I said a few things had happened that made my situation very difficult and I couldn't deal with the debate for a while. First, I found that one of my twins had a mass in the umbelical cord that was restricting oxygen and nutrience so my boy Aidan was failing to grow properly. Surgery was required, the mass was successfully removed and the twins are fine. Second, my boyfriend who is now an ex (long story not enough time or desire to tell), needless to say going through this pregnancy alone is somewhat daunting, especially after the surgery. But I'm back to my old self, spin, xena, moonriver I missed ya.

reply from: lukesmom

I was afraid something was wrong with one of the babies or you. Glad to hear all is well.

reply from: carolemarie

I am so sorry that you have had all this to deal with! And I am glad the babies are fine.

reply from: BossMomma

Thank you, Aidan will be very small and my Dr. is a little worried about brain damage but she feels it would be minimal at most as the ultrasounds detect no brain abnormalities. I guess I will go ahead with the story behind my boyfriend. He was pushing me to abort Aidan as he did not want a less than perfect baby or one with possible disabilities. He stated that if his wish was not honored that he would leave, I told him not to let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.
The whole experience has changed me a lot. I found myself going to church with my children, joining a christian counciling group for troubled women, then finally taking down my altar. My feelings on abortion have changed , I wish women would seek another way of dealing with unplanned pregnancy, Adoption or even giving motherhood a chance. I wish science would develop a way of transplanting the unwanted fetus of one into the wanting womb of another in the same way that an unwanted child can be transplanted into a wanting home. I want abortion to become a moot point, to be obsolete because women have a better option. Nearly losing one of my own babies was an eye opener. They aren't so different in the womb.

reply from: 4given

How troubling! You aren't alone on that, but I am sure that doesn't help you any. Sorry to hear that!

Sometimes..typically they do. I am pleased to read that maybe that means you understand how precious every life is (not just those "wanted" by their mother)and value the gift that others would throw away.
As do most of the women and men fighting for those lives. I hope and pray for your continued revelation as well as your strength and well-being. May your children be well also. You are blessed. I think that is what troubled me the most about you. You have what so many are desperate for, but also what so many would willingly throw away. You neglected to value the gift of life- stating that it wasn't your choice. I don't know how any being could condone the mutilation and killing of another child, especially being a mother themselves- and also educated about how they are killed, as well as level of development.. Hopefully this situation has changed your heart.

reply from: lukesmom

Sounds like you have been through a lot in a short time. When you said something had happened the first thing I thought of was your pregnancy and the babies. I am so glad Aidan is doing ok and no brain abnormalities. I am sorry about your boyfriend though. I was fortunant in my dh. When told the news about our son, I really thought he would want me to abort. I am so sorry. If he "sees the light" and changes his mind would you forgive him?
I am so sorry all this has happened but so very glad Aidan sounds fine. The possibility of losing a loved child is a horrific experience no parent should ever have to face. May God or the Goddess send you His/Her strength,
Blessings, Sue, Luke's mom

reply from: carolemarie

Wow! You have been through the wringer, all of this and Ike too! I am so glad to hear that the babies are okay, and sorry to hear about your ex.
Since you have experienced all of this, you will be a great voice at helping women find other options.
Thank you for sharing all this!

reply from: sheri

I will be praying God heals your heart, I knew from your comments you were a firebrand but i was amazed to hear this story and find you are all kinds of courageous to boot! Good for you and God bless!

reply from: BossMomma

I forgive him, but I would not take him back. He wanted Aidan killed just for being stunted in growth, Aidan's brain looked just fine but he didn't even want to give his son a chance. Then he just walks out on me, this is his loss, I can love my babies without him. But thanks for the kind words.

reply from: BossMomma

Something healed my heart, I'm not sure on my beliefs anymore but the church has brought me a long way. I may just give Jesus a chance. I tend to view Jesus as a seperate deity than the tyranical old testiment god as their messages were so very different. Jesus was all about love and I feel the world could use as much love as it can get.

reply from: galen

look into the culdee or cele de this may be more on your path twards christianity.
blessings for you and the twins.

reply from: churchmouse

What a blessing for us to hear your story and thank you for sharing. It is through tough times that we see who we really are and just how much we can endure. And you have endured a lot. God will bless you Boss.......he has already with Aidan. His plan is perfect you will see that. Just know that He will never abandon you if you have faith.
Just maybe God will also change your boyfriend. He certainly changed me, He is changing you.
Your story got me thinking....
You know as mothers......the worry never goes away does it? And with worry comes pain and suffering. The questions we dont understand....the answers that do not come...the uncertainty.
I love what Elizabeth Stone wrote....
"Making the decision to have a child - it's momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking outside your body."
Isn't this true?
I have a son that has been in not one but three near fatal car accidents all in the span of three years. The last one was the worst one....... I got a phone call late in the evening. The operator asked if I was his mother and told me to come immediately to a hospital 40 minutes away that he had been life-flighted. I begged her to tell me if he was alive and she said she could not they were not allowed to give out that information. We got in the car and I remember I was numb. I was shaking...my husband could not drive. The thoughts that went through my head, you can't imagine. It's like my life flashed before my eyes....his childhood, the hockey games, the golf matches.....his face, his smell. My 22 year old son could be gone. We walked through emergency and they led us down a hall....and into a room. The door shut and I screamed.....I could not take it. I looked out the little window in the door and saw a Catholic priest standing there. (it was a Catholic hospital) I fainted and dropped to the floor. When I came to.........my husband was crying, as was my daughter and they said he was alive......but injured, broken bones, cuts.
I remember seeing him and being unable to speak. I do not think I talked much for a week.
I have not gotten over this. When the phone rings.......when a police car goes by.......when I am driving near our home and see an ambulance......I call both my kids.
I have been seeing a Christian therapist and it has really really been helping me.
Christians are commanded to stop worrying, Luke 12:29. I find this the hardest of all things to do. I am a work in progress.
But I rest in this scripture and it helps me a lot....maybe it will help you.
Jeremiah 17:7-8, "Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord and whose trust is the Lord."
Remember you can ask God in prayer for anything Boss.
God bless

reply from: RiverMoonLady

BossMomma, I am so glad to hear that everything is okay with the twins. Like everyone else, I was afraid that something had happened with your pregnancy when you left.
Your EX is an idiot and I'm glad you got rid of him. You seem to be the type of woman who will do just fine without him.
I send you love and prayers that you continue to be strong and that your babies are born safely and healthy.

reply from: BossMomma

Thanks, I've been focussing on the positive. My daughter celebrated her first birthday on the fourth and she's having a blast with all her new toys. I've been working on my baby registry at babies r us and working on the kid's scrap books. I asked him if he wanted to be in the delivery room, he said he didn't which is fine by me, his mom and my mom will be there.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Going through the entire pregnancy process and having one's own little fragile and important baby or babies should soften even the hardest hearts. I don't know how anyone could be pro-abortion after experiencing the birth of their own child who is the world to them. Some women really become moms and nothing is more important to them than their little boy or girl.
Do you say you are pro-life now but was pro-abortion before?

reply from: BossMomma

I'm pro-life now, though I still don't feel it's my place to tell another woman what to do. I pray for a better option, one that takes no life and is all about choices. I still feel that quality of life is more important than quantity but, as often as doctors are wrong I wouldn't stake my child's life on their opinion.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I'm so glad to hear you are doing well and that your babies are ok too! I can't believe it when people want to force a woman to abort her own child; he's not pro-choice, he's pro-abortion! Sometimes, a little spirituality can be a good thing :3 I hope you keep the positive attitude and I know we'll all be wishing you luck and praying!

reply from: BossMomma

lol this was emailed to me earlier, thought I'd share http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzgmee7DIuE

reply from: Witness

I'm so glad you and the twins are all right, BossMomma. Sorry, about the ex, but delighted you had the will to boot him. Thanks so much for sharing with us. It was the loss of my son that made abortion so hard for me to deal with. I can't tell you how glad I am that you didn't have to go through that. Teared me up to read your post. You can bet I'll be praying for yours.

reply from: MC3

BossMomma,
I too am happy to see how things are working out for you and your family. As someone who has lost a child, I can tell you that no one can really know what it's like to learn that your baby is seriously ill. So even for those of us who have been through it, we cannot honestly say that we know how you felt. All we can say is that we know how we felt when it happened to us.
Regarding your ex, believe me Sunshine you haven't lost a thing. Losers like that will either drop you in the grease today, or tomorrow, or at some day in the future. But make no mistake, they will always drop you in the grease when the going gets tough. They are little boys masquerading as men and the earlier you figure that out the better off you are. My advise? Hold out for a REAL man and, as I'm sure you already know, it would be a big bonus if he's also a fellow Texan. (Might as well shoot for the stars. Right?)
Now, you say that you have become pro-life through this experience but that you wouldn't tell another woman what she should do. Let me assure you that I have been at this long enough to know that becoming pro-life is, for many people, a journey and not a destination. However, you need to understand that the pro-life position is not, "I wouldn't kill my own baby but if someone else wants to kill theirs, that's their business." Instead, the only legitimate pro-life position is that, from the moment of fertilization, the unborn child is a living human being entitled to the same legal protections as a five-year-old or a 50-year-old. In short, it is not pro-life to suggest that anyone has the right to take the life of an unborn child - EVEN ITS OWN MOTHER. After all, we don't contend that a five-year-old has a legal right-to-life unless it is the mother who orders the killing.
I do not say this to you as a criticism, but as simply a warning that you not mistakenly believe that you have reached your destination. You may indeed be on a journey toward being pro-life, but you will never arrive at that place as long as you accept any moral distinctions between the born and the unborn. Fortunately, if you are truly earnest in your travels, there are plenty of us here who are willing to shine a light on your path.

reply from: MC3

BossMomma,
By the way, keep us posted on the progress of your newest additions.

reply from: BossMomma

I do pray for the unborn and I'm voting for a pro-life president, that's all I can really do legally. I don't have the time or energy to protest abortion in the streets, but I continue my work for a crisis pregnancy center and do free babysitting for teen mothers so that they don't feel driven to abort out of hopelessness.
As for a man, I think I will be avoiding any further sexual relationships with them, I know there are good ones out there but I can't stand weeding through the ass holes trying to find a decent man.

reply from: Hosea

Hello Boss Momma,
I am so happy for you that they were able to save your babies. I am soooooo happy for you. I was just crying for joy for you. Two years ago, my last baby died at 17 weeks and they guessed it was some clot in the cord. All his tests came out that he was normal. They said he had just died right before the ultrasound. I wish I would have had surgery like you. I can't tell you how happy I am for you !!!!! Now I have been unable to have another child and my heart aches. I too wish that they were able to transplant these babies. I checked into embryo adoption but, it is as expensive as regular adoption. I have recently started fostering classes. I am so happy for you, your children, and your new found faith. I hope God continues to bless you abundantly.
PS Let the loser BF go and God will send you a good man when you aren't looking for one.

reply from: BossMomma

The mass in my son's cord wasn't a clot, it was actually a benign tumor that was causing blockage. Aidan would have failed to thrive had the tumor not been detected and possibly died. The loser BF has been kicked to the curb, and I really don't want another man, they are more trouble than their worth.

reply from: BossMomma

According to my understanding, this does not represent any actual change in her position....She has asserted all along that she would not kill her own children.
So what would you have me do to be "truly pro-life"? Physically block women from entering a clinic and get myself arrested? Sorry but I'd be doing no one any good in jail. All I can do is put my vote on a pro-life leader and let the law makers make the laws based on that vote.
Not aborting my own children is another way of contributing to the pro-life cause, I saved my baby, the only life I can truly protect. After being faced with a coerced abortion and choosing to go it alone with my babies rather than keep my boyfriend, my views have changed, I do not support abortion, my son was worth too much to continue along the path I was on.

reply from: BossMomma

So, do you support a legal ban on elective abortion or not?
Yes, which is why I'm voting McCain. However, I also feel that the pro-life movement needs to be prepared to put it's money where it's mouth is. With the option to abort removed a fair deal of unwanted children will likely enter our society, I'm prepared to do my part for them, are you?

reply from: BossMomma

Well, you must have reached this decision after returning to the forum. You were obviously implying that you still supported the choice to abort yesterday...,
There has never been a time when I was not willing to "do my part."
No I had changed before I came back, I don't feel it's my place to get in another woman's face about abortion. I can however work to change the law therefore avoiding the confrontation.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Wow, we lose one we gain one. Vex just switched back over to pro abort.
Your bf will want to see his kids in the future when he grows up. How old is he?
Don't be too hard on him, he's *just* pro choice
What a disgusting choice

reply from: Draiocht

Welcome back, Boss Momma. I hope that things look up for you in the future and I'm sorry to hear that your SO abandoned you in your time of need. You're a very strong woman and I admire you.
*edit: by the way, Christian Lott; it's not HIS *****ing kid. Boss Momma isn't just a container for male legacy. It's HER kid...HERS! All he did was shoot sperm. She's doing all the work. Please stop giving males ALL the credit for something they do NO work for and risk NOTHING for, especially when they abandon. If my husband does all the yard work and I just take five minutes to pull some weeds I don't take all the credit. It's incredibly sexist to refer to unborn as only the male's doing as if women are no more than softdrink machines that men put quarters into and push a button to get their kids. Give a little *****ing credit to the ones that incubate and give birth, will you? Especially when they do it without any support from the sperm shooters. Pig.

reply from: Hosea

The mass in my son's cord wasn't a clot, it was actually a benign tumor that was causing blockage. Aidan would have failed to thrive had the tumor not been detected and possibly died. The loser BF has been kicked to the curb, and I really don't want another man, they are more trouble than their worth.
I am happ for you that they could save your baby. I hope the rest of your pregnancy goes smoothly and you don't have any problems. May I pray for you to have a good pregnancy?

reply from: yoda

Very few prolifers do. If fact I've never seen one do that.
Yes, you can work to change the law, and you can argue against the legal status of elective abortion on this forum. Like MC3 said, it's a process.

reply from: yoda

Ah, the nostalgia...... hearing proabort noises like that takes me back to... about five minutes ago, when another proabort said something about abortion but did not mention the actual victim of abortion... the baby.

reply from: lukesmom

AHHH, more intelligent persuasive mutterings from the "cream of the crop". Warms my prolife heart...

reply from: Scooby

Boss Mom -
So good to hear that things in your life are changing. I can't imagine what that must of been like. I can, however, tell you about the joys awaiting you in the days ahead, watching and being a part of the nurturing and growth of a pair of tigers.
Grace and peace to you and the children. May you continually find rest in Him who created you and your wonderful children. Remember, smile a lot and enjoy life, having twinkies is gonna be a ride!

reply from: lukesmom

I understand your feelings. Sounds like separating at this point is a good idea. But (isn't there always a but!) I have talked to many moms whoes so/dh hasn't been supportive or have advocated terminating only to have these same men, after dealing with their shock and emotions, come back very sorry and very loving men. In otherwords they became men and accepted their child and loved them. That doesn't change the fact that your SO deserted you and you son when you needed him most. Sometimes fear does that. Fear does a lot of nastiness to our brains and makes us do a lot of really stupid things. I can empathize with your anger and hurt and you have a right to these emotions. You are a strong woman and strong mom and that will get you and your kids through. You ever need to talk, I'll listen for sure, just pm me.
BTW, I am prolife, I don't stand in front of clinics but I do vote and educate and volunteer where I can. Being a prolife mom can be as simple as teaching your children and voting and simply not advocating abortion. You would be amazed how just that can change minds. Even sharing your story with Aidan will soften hearts and make people think if nothing else. That "thinking" aspect is one reason why I have shared Luke's life and death.
God bless, Sue, Luke's mom

reply from: BossMomma

Wow, we lose one we gain one. Vex just switched back over to pro abort.
Your bf will want to see his kids in the future when he grows up. How old is he?
Don't be too hard on him, he's *just* pro choice
What a disgusting choice
He is 26 I'm 27, I wont deny him access to his kids, that is if he even wants them anymore. He wouldn't even show up to his daughter's 1st birthday. But I will be taking him to court for child support, I didn't make these babies on my own, I wont support them on my own.

reply from: BossMomma

The mass in my son's cord wasn't a clot, it was actually a benign tumor that was causing blockage. Aidan would have failed to thrive had the tumor not been detected and possibly died. The loser BF has been kicked to the curb, and I really don't want another man, they are more trouble than their worth.
I am happ for you that they could save your baby. I hope the rest of your pregnancy goes smoothly and you don't have any problems. May I pray for you to have a good pregnancy?
Sure, I'd be honored.

reply from: BossMomma

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
ON - so you don't want to get in another woman's face, but you think it's OK to legislate her uterus?
If I wrote a law that said that you HAD to kill your smaller fetus to ensure the safety of our federal tax dollars, would you tell me to take that law and shove it somewhere?
How about, YOU make decisions for YOUR uterus, and I make the decisions for MINE?
YOU don't legislate MY crotch, and I won't legislate YOURS.
Minding one's own business is the foundation of American freedom.
Actually being that I'm a working mom with great insurence. The tax payers wouldn't be paying a dime for my child. I did make the decision for my uterus and you have no right to tell me how to vote. And frankly, if we minded our own business in all things it'd still be perfectly acceptable to beat wives and children as it used to be a domestic affair. Abortion is a perminant solution to a temporary problem.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Exactly. No one's talking about legislating a uterus or crotch - that would be like telling them who they could screw.
A baby is not a crotch or uterus - it's a baby.
They love to talk about everything except what it is they're aborting.
They're so indignant about this illusory legislation no one has ever proposed, wishing we'd fight their bogus arguments than see the truth - a baby stabbed to death with a razor tipped suction hose.
What a vile person to condone murdering babies.

reply from: BossMomma

Easy now Drai, the babies are his and mine, they share our DNA. Yes I'm doing the work, making the sacrifices and growing these two miracles within me. Yes all he did was inseminate me but legally, biologically they are his kids too and one day if he grows a brain he may just want to be a daddy to them. He will never again be my mate, I wont get burned by him twice, but I hope he comes around. I never knew my father and know how painful that is, I wouldn't want my kids to know that hurt.

reply from: CharlesD

Well, I've been busy lately and trying to catch up on reading around here today and all I can say after reading this thread is wow. Not that I don't believe people can change, because I've seen it happen, but every time it does it still thrills me. I realize that most don't happen overnight, or in a Eureka! moment, but over time, a gradual process involving different stimuli, but when you see a transformation happening, it gives hope to others, hope that if we speak the truth in love and treat others with civility that hearts can be changed.
Yes, I believe in changing laws, but ultimately this is how our society will be changed into one where abortion is not only illegal, but also undesirable, where it is a choice that people wouldn't even want to make if it were legal. This change will take place one person at a time and it won't be done overnight.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

If abortion is made undesirable, or even better, UNWANTED and/or UNNECESSARY, it won't have to be illegal.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

That's something I certainly can agree too; although I think a law would be nice too. Murder is undesireable, unwanted and unecessary, but we still need a law against it.

reply from: CharlesD

Oh you are so heartless. You don't care about murderers. All you care about is the murder victims, but where is your compassion for those who exercise their freedom to choose murder? You anti-murder people are all alike. You don't care one bit for the rights of the murderer. Shame on you.

reply from: BossMomma

That's my wish too, I support better research on contraception and a less squeamish approach to sex education. Plus I wish sex wasn't so hyped up on TV. Magazines, TV shows, even teen fashions are geared towards being sexy. I visited the Palais Royal where my mom works and couldn't believe some of the things I saw for young teens, way too revealing. It teaches kids to be sexual at an early age, kids should be educated, not encouraged.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

She's going through an extremely emotional experience and you expect her feelings to stay the same from day to day - even hour to hour? You're on crack.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Oh you are so heartless.
How so?
ACTUAL murderers? Normally, no. But I feel a trial is needed to bring out the truth if it isn't obvious. I don't think all human killing is murder. A friend of mine killed someone else in self defense, and didn't go to jail for it, and I 100% agree with that ruling. If I didn't care about murderers, then I would want my friend to be in jail right now. He took someone's life and nearly killed someone else. Oh, should we mention my father? He was in the military for 20 years, and went to Iraq the first time during Desert Storm. He has also killed people. Yet I don't call him a murderer either. Both of my grandfathers fought in WWII. They killed people, but they are not murderers. My mother aborted a child, but she is not a murderer.
I think I may have just A LITTLE experience with "murder", don'tcha think? I love two "murderers" as dear parents, had two as grandfathers, and know one as a friend.
Well of course I care about them; but they're dead so all I can do is hope for the process of law to give them justice if they deserve it. I'd say I'm actually quite callous towards the victims.
Huh? To kill someone else in cold blood for absolutely no reason? I'll never have compassion for that. To kill in self-defense? Lots of compassion. To kill in a time of war? Lots of compassion. To kill out of a fear that there is no other real CHOICE? Very much compassion.
You are so weird, let me just say that.
To relate this directly to abortion, I for one am NOT like all other "anti-murder" people. Seriously, are you being sarcastic? Anyway... I would not EVER consider jailing a woman for obtaining an illegal abortion. Her doing so is clearly a sign that there is something much darker going on in her life, and she needs compassion, therapy, and a safe place to be away from the influences that made her abort. If a woman thinks that killing her baby is the only choice, she is truly at the lowest of lows that she can be in. That woman needs help, not prison time.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

At the first sign of personal drama, I do not abandon my principles.
And other people question theirs. That's a personal way to deal with grief, and you are no one to tell her how to deal with her life.
Also, I hardly think what she is going through is the "first sign of drama". Her situation is extremely stressful, frightening, and heartbreaking. You are being ridiculous to say that what she has gone through is just the "first sign of drama".

reply from: sheri

CP, Im begining to think your a bit jaded. Why not give in to the moment and hope she is sincere?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

My opinions about things have sometimes changed very quickly as well. For all you know, she's been silently dealing with these issues for a far longer time than any of us have know; and she has been spouting pro-choice rhetoric in a desperate attempt to convince herself of it, rather than us. Sound familiar? It was me, too. I'm not saying that's what DID happen to her, but it is a distinct possibility and personally I find it extremely rude to nose in on her business.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

At the first sign of personal drama, I do not abandon my principles.
And other people question theirs. That's a personal way to deal with grief, and you are no one to tell her how to deal with her life.
When did I tell her how to deal with her life? You needing that rock pretty badly now?
You are telling her that she should not have abandoned her principals so "suddenly". Indirectly of course, by discussing yourself, you actually mean her. What you basically said was "You shouldn't abandon your principals in times of difficulty." You are implying that because YOU don't do it, it is the better behavior to have.

reply from: sheri

I was never really sure about the whole vexing thing, I tryed a few times to talk with her and was met with an unreasonable attitude, I held back saying anything mostly from confusion and disinterest in the subject. However BM seems to have a straightforward explanation of her mindset and i am happy for her.
I just thought you sounded a more sceptical then was called for, your bringing me down man!

reply from: BossMomma

I get the distinct impression that your views change based on your situation, that you alter them for convenience, that they are not actually based on any firm moral convictions. You seem to "believe" whatever suits you at the time...
So are you here to debate abortion or follow me around making cheap shots dispite the fact that I have left you alone? I also noticed that you left off the post where I said I warn a man that I don't abort, if he gets me pregnant he will take his share of the responsibility, therefore the man has the chance to forgo having sex with me. Furthermore I'm voting to illegalize abortion, if a woman's choice is removed, why should the man get a choice?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, Vexing has been really on edge lately. I'd just give her some time to cool down and relax, and just try your best to be cordial. I prefer to avoid getting burned than fighting the fire.

reply from: BossMomma

At the first sign of personal drama, I do not abandon my principles.
And other people question theirs. That's a personal way to deal with grief, and you are no one to tell her how to deal with her life.
Also, I hardly think what she is going through is the "first sign of drama". Her situation is extremely stressful, frightening, and heartbreaking. You are being ridiculous to say that what she has gone through is just the "first sign of drama".
He doesn't know a damn thing about me, doesn't care and that's perfectly ok. I don't expect my situation to gain support from everyone. CP is welcome to think and say what he wants, his opinion doesn't hurt me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I told her no such thing. That response was directed at you. I was attempting to clarify my point.
The point is that I do not believe her sudden change is based on any moral principles other than her needs and desires coming first. If it seems to be in her best interest, I believe she will reverse her position again. Prove me wrong, BM...
This discussion is really pointless. I had a response typed up... I just don't care enough.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, I'm just going to drop it Boss Momma. We both know what we're talking about here; CP can stay in the dark.

reply from: CharlesD

Well of course I care about them; but they're dead so all I can do is hope for the process of law to give them justice if they deserve it. I'd say I'm actually quite callous towards the victims.
Huh? To kill someone else in cold blood for absolutely no reason? I'll never have compassion for that. To kill in self-defense? Lots of compassion. To kill in a time of war? Lots of compassion. To kill out of a fear that there is no other real CHOICE? Very much compassion.
You are so weird, let me just say that.
To relate this directly to abortion, I for one am NOT like all other "anti-murder" people. Seriously, are you being sarcastic? Anyway... I would not EVER consider jailing a woman for obtaining an illegal abortion. Her doing so is clearly a sign that there is something much darker going on in her life, and she needs compassion, therapy, and a safe place to be away from the influences that made her abort. If a woman thinks that killing her baby is the only choice, she is truly at the lowest of lows that she can be in. That woman needs help, not prison time.
Hey, it was a bit of sarcasm. Sorry if I didn't indicate that better.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, sorry I flew off the handle XD I could tell something was up, I just didn't know what! lol. I think together we make a good point though: Some pro-lifers DO care about the woman.

reply from: CharlesD

You know, something is bothering me in this thread. Lord knows I had enough issues with Boss, at least in her previous incarnation on here, but I think some folks need to cut her some slack now. You can say what you want about her motives for this change in attitude, but the way I see it the important thing is the change itself. Those of us who are pro life all came to this position different ways; some of us grew up Christian and were taught that way at church, others are pro life for other reasons. I was pro life before I was a Christian because I saw it as murder as a young child and it disturbed me. My point is that all of us have different reasons for believing what we believe, but you don't see people criticizing the rest of us for how we came to become pro life. If you are just because you grew up in a church that told you to believe that way or because your parents were pro life and they raised you that way, is that any better than someone who came to the realization through personal, what some may call selfish, motives?
I frankly don't care why she had a change of attitude, but that it happened. I also tend to judge people not on where they are but which direction they are heading in. If she is heading in the right direction, that is what counts as far as I'm concerned. Time will tell, but I'm willing to giver her the benefit of the doubt. If God judged us the way we judge each other sometimes, we'd all be condemned.

reply from: Hosea

Boss momma,
Please don't let uneduacated pro-lifers discourage you. Take your time and form your opinion as you continue to educate yourself. There are some truely intellegent pro-lifers on this board. I know I should use the ignore button for people like CP. He can be very hurtful and nasty. I know you can handle yourself but, I wish you peace so feel free to ignore him and others who irritate you. You deserve peace and praise as you carry on this difficult pregnancy, not insults and distrust. I hope this whole experience blesses you with the strength you need to be the best mom to all your kids without the BF that you would not want your children to learn from.
I truely care about the women and most pro-lifers who actually try to help and not insult women care too. In 94 I renovated a building with my husband and a couple of volunteers to help young mothers with material goods so they didn't feel abortion was their only option. It has moved ssince then but, it is still open. I believe the reason most women choose abotion is because they feel they don't have a choice. So I go out to several high schools and teach baby development and what the choices are in an unplanned pregnancy. I make sure they know that if they choose parentling or adoption that our Pregnancy Center will help them with material goods and parenting classes if they want. It is only a real choice if the pregnant women is educated on their choice. If women make the abortion choice I know the pain of losing pre-natal children and I defend their right to mourn. From my experience with those post abortive , I know they regret their choice, although some only admit it when they are depressed or drunk. We have help for the post=abortive at our CPC too.
May you have peace and good health for you and your children.

reply from: BossMomma

My experience changed me because I was forced to face the fact that holy crap, that's a baby in there. I didn't go through surgery saving a clump of tissue, I went through surgery to save my child, a child whose own father would have condemned him to death had I listened to him. I was forced to face the fact that a child in the womb and a child in the cradle are not so different. Something like this can change a person's whole outlook on a subject. When women view pregnancy as an inconvenience they fail to realize that most of the time it wouldn't kill em to gestate, why kill the baby?

reply from: CharlesD

Well, I'm speaking for myself here. I am a Christian and I would prefer that everyone share that faith, but I know that isn't the case. I have what I consider to be pretty standard Christian views on morality and my faith does tend to shape most of my views and how I interact with the world as a whole. With that said, as far as the pro life movement is concerned, I welcome anyone who wants to stand up for the unborn. I might disagree with people theologically or with their moral choices, but if someone wants to support this cause, who am I to say no?
I don't agree with you on matters of faith, but that doesn't take anything away from your pro life position and the arguments you make on behalf of the unborn. Had BM changed her pro life position and not her views on religious matters, I would still welcome her as a pro lifer. That wouldn't mean I would all of a sudden approve of her religious choices, but this is first and foremost a pro life board, not a theology board. Maybe I'm the oddball, but that's just the way I see it.

reply from: BossMomma

I'm not a full blown christian, I'm more of an agnostic. I believe that there is a divine force out there I just haven't decided on what to call it. I was firm in my paganism until the man I thought was my soul mate, abandoned me. It made me question everything. I go to church to find solace, not nessesarily because I want to be part of the religion.

reply from: CharlesD

That's pretty much the way I read it, but even that does indicate a pretty drastic change. What it does say is that you are open to looking at things differently. But like I said to CP, theological differences should not divide pro lifers when it comes to speaking up for the unborn. Although it would be my desire to see everyone become a Christian, I realize that the pro life movement has many non Christians and we need everyone we can get in this movement. We shouldn't turn away the help of anyone just for theological differences.
Anyway, from where I stand, it would appear that you are moving in the right direction and I don't see the catalyst that started that movement as a selfish motive or even a motive not based in morality. I hope that makes sense.

reply from: lukesmom

You aren't the "oddball". I feel the same way. I could care less what religion or nonreligion anyone is as long as they don't condone/support killing the unborn. I, also, would support BM or anyone else who changes their stance on abortion, regardless of their religious association or nonassociation.

reply from: lukesmom

CP, could it be a possibility not everyone knows about the attacks on Vexing and you? Some of us don't have time to read or respond to every thread. I did know of the attacks on Carole and defended until she asked us not to bother wasting our time on her attacker. I also knew about the attacks on Vexing but she is perfectly capable of giving as good as she gets and very seldom ever posts anything other than angry accusatory posts, so I tend to stay away from her. I also knew about the accusations made about you by BM and although I didn't agree, you seemed very capable of responding (better than I could! and I had my own issues with BM at the time) and taking care of yourself. I didn't know Augustine was attacking you.
Yes, I do think some here could be swayed by the fact she is looking into christianity to help her cope but I think 99% of everyone here is just happy to see her views of abortion changing. I also often see life long views change because of life changing experiences and being told something very serious is wrong with your unborn child and then being pressured by someone you love to destroy this child is life changing. I am willing to give her and others like her the benefit of believing her.

reply from: lukesmom

If you believe in a "divine force" I don't believe you can call yourself agnostic but I may be wrong in that. Why do you need a name? Orginized religions are actually communities of spiritual people with the same set of beliefs who support each other in these beliefs. That devine force could be called God, or Muhammid, or the Goddess or many other names but what about the possiblity these names all pertain to the same force?

reply from: yoda

Yeah, you can. An agnostic simply says "I don't know (for sure)", about the names, identities, and theologies of divine forces in general. As an agnostic myself, I don't claim to know anything for sure about spiritual matters, but I do have my suspicions.

reply from: BossMomma

If you believe in a "divine force" I don't believe you can call yourself agnostic but I may be wrong in that. Why do you need a name? Orginized religions are actually communities of spiritual people with the same set of beliefs who support each other in these beliefs. That devine force could be called God, or Muhammid, or the Goddess or many other names but what about the possiblity these names all pertain to the same force?
Agnostic is the correct title, Agnostics are typically more spiritual than religious where as Aethiests believe there is no god or divine force. But no, titles are not that important.

reply from: lukesmom

Yeah, you can. An agnostic simply says "I don't know (for sure)", about the names, identities, and theologies of divine forces in general. As an agnostic myself, I don't claim to know anything for sure about spiritual matters, but I do have my suspicions.
thanks, I figured there was a pretty good chance I was wrong as idon't know much about agnostic "beliefs" or should I say nonbeliefs? I think maybe I was thinking of athiests.

reply from: lukesmom

If you believe in a "divine force" I don't believe you can call yourself agnostic but I may be wrong in that. Why do you need a name? Orginized religions are actually communities of spiritual people with the same set of beliefs who support each other in these beliefs. That devine force could be called God, or Muhammid, or the Goddess or many other names but what about the possiblity these names all pertain to the same force?
Agnostic is the correct title, Agnostics are typically more spiritual than religious where as Aethiests believe there is no god or divine force. But no, titles are not that important.
Yup, you are right. I think I was reading Agnostic and thinking aethiest. The brain wasn't connecting I guess.

reply from: CharlesD

The way I always understood it was that atheists don't believe in God, but agnostics believe in something but just aren't sure who that something is. But it could be worse. You could be the insomniac dyslexic agnostic, the guy who stayed up all night wondering about Dog.

reply from: lukesmom

When I see you defending every single person here being attacked, then I will follow suit. You seem to do your share so stop whinning, will ya. You seem able to dish it out pretty well and this is actually the first time I've seen you not being able to take it. Shocking, maybe you aren't as hardened as you let on. What is really funny is the fact I just defended you to someone who PMed me. Gasp, what a shocker!

reply from: Hosea

Hi Boss momma,
I know someone with twins who weighed almost 7 pounds each. I hope your babies are not preemies and that they are healthy.

reply from: BossMomma

I hope they go full term but my OB/GYN doesn't think they will, you see I got pregnant when my daughter was just 6 months old and my Dr. is worried that the closeness of my pregnancies might weaken my uterus. However, the twins are forming well and hopes are high for them, they certainly are kicking a lot.

reply from: scopia1982

I hope they go full term but my OB/GYN doesn't think they will, you see I got pregnant when my daughter was just 6 months old and my Dr. is worried that the closeness of my pregnancies might weaken my uterus. However, the twins are forming well and hopes are high for them, they certainly are kicking a lot.
Are you going to attempt a vaginal birth or will you do a Csection? In your case it seems that a Csection is what the doc would advise if he hasnt already.

reply from: BossMomma

I hope they go full term but my OB/GYN doesn't think they will, you see I got pregnant when my daughter was just 6 months old and my Dr. is worried that the closeness of my pregnancies might weaken my uterus. However, the twins are forming well and hopes are high for them, they certainly are kicking a lot.
Are you going to attempt a vaginal birth or will you do a Csection? In your case it seems that a Csection is what the doc would advise if he hasnt already.
It will be a planned c-section.

reply from: Hosea

I hope they go full term but my OB/GYN doesn't think they will, you see I got pregnant when my daughter was just 6 months old and my Dr. is worried that the closeness of my pregnancies might weaken my uterus. However, the twins are forming well and hopes are high for them, they certainly are kicking a lot.
I am so glad that the babies have been kicking a lot. Does the in uterine surgury weaken the uterus any? My last two live births were only 14 months apart. I wasn't pregnant with twins but my uterus held on just fine and I was induced to start the labor. That baby weighed almost 9 pounds and my uterus held well. I hope your uterus holds on as long as you wish it too.

reply from: BossMomma

I hope they go full term but my OB/GYN doesn't think they will, you see I got pregnant when my daughter was just 6 months old and my Dr. is worried that the closeness of my pregnancies might weaken my uterus. However, the twins are forming well and hopes are high for them, they certainly are kicking a lot.
I am so glad that the babies have been kicking a lot. Does the in uterine surgury weaken the uterus any? My last two live births were only 14 months apart. I wasn't pregnant with twins but my uterus held on just fine and I was induced to start the labor. That baby weighed almost 9 pounds and my uterus held well. I hope your uterus holds on as long as you wish it too.
The twins do make the difference, it puts twice the strain on my uterus and, the human body was really only made to hold one baby, multiples are not the norm. The surgery doesn't weaken the uterus however, the surgery was performed through two tiny incisions near the top of the uterus. The main reason I want a c-section is so I can have my tubal done right after delivery, pregnancy is very hard on me and I really don't want to get pregnant again.

reply from: sarah4president

If you believe in a "divine force" I don't believe you can call yourself agnostic but I may be wrong in that. Why do you need a name? Orginized religions are actually communities of spiritual people with the same set of beliefs who support each other in these beliefs. That devine force could be called God, or Muhammid, or the Goddess or many other names but what about the possiblity these names all pertain to the same force?
Agnostic is the correct title, Agnostics are typically more spiritual than religious where as Aethiests believe there is no god or divine force. But no, titles are not that important.
Agnostics assert that it is unknowable whether there is a god.
If you believe that there is a God, or belive it is possible to know there is a God, you are not an agnostic.

reply from: BossMomma

If you believe in a "divine force" I don't believe you can call yourself agnostic but I may be wrong in that. Why do you need a name? Orginized religions are actually communities of spiritual people with the same set of beliefs who support each other in these beliefs. That devine force could be called God, or Muhammid, or the Goddess or many other names but what about the possiblity these names all pertain to the same force?
Agnostic is the correct title, Agnostics are typically more spiritual than religious where as Aethiests believe there is no god or divine force. But no, titles are not that important.
Agnostics assert that it is unknowable whether there is a god.
If you believe that there is a God, or belive it is possible to know there is a God, you are not an agnostic.
Then maybe I'm just spiritual or non-denominational, does it really matter?


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