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Faithman - Dead or Alive?

No word from the fboy lately

by: RiverMoonLady

Anyone get news of his demise?

reply from: carolemarie

A much better board without him. I can't believe you miss him enough to post about him.....

reply from: yoda

Dead or alive? Funny, that's what he asks about you too......

reply from: churchmouse

Rivermoon
Gosh are you one hateful woman. Damn But then you are a pro-abort so nothing you say should surprise anyone, especially those that stand up agaisnt abortion.
At least faithman stood up for the unborn and that was good fro the forum.

Wow carole how loving you are today. LOL
You hated him because he held you accountable. No wonder you dont miss him.
Accountable because you care more about the woman then the vitcim in the crime, the unborn.
You are just vile. I hope Liberal sees this one........she thinks you are nice. ROFLMAO

reply from: carolemarie

I simply said the forum was better off without him. How is that non loving?
It was a statement of fact.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Gosh are you one hateful woman. Damn But then you are a pro-abort so nothing you say should surprise anyone, especially those that stand up agaisnt abortion.
At least faithman stood up for the unborn and that was good fro the forum.

Wow carole how loving you are today. LOL
You hated him because he held you accountable. No wonder you dont miss him.
Accountable because you care more about the woman then the vitcim in the crime, the unborn.
You are just vile. I hope Liberal sees this one........she thinks you are nice. ROFLMAO
I don't think she's nice; she has said some truly despicable things. But I still respect her as a human being and as a woman. I despise her view of christianity and I think she's pig headed and stupid about it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to wish horrible things upon her.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I have (or had) no idea whatsoever where Fboy lives. He was such a prolific poster that I was amazed to have not heard one word from him in many weeks. You folks are astonishingly hateful to think that, by asking if he had passed, that I was wishing something evil upon him. I have already had the sad experience of getting news that other people I knew only from the Internet had passed away, so it was certainly a possibility.
I DO know that his wife was suffering from cancer a while back. He refused to accept my sympathy (I am a two-time survivor of cancer, so I truly understand its effects on the patient and family) and was quite hateful, but he is a human being (however flawed) and God commands that we love one another.
That being said, if he does live in the hurricane-devastated area, I wish him and his family the best in recovering from this natural disaster.
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding. Please, people, don't think that everyone who disagrees with you on one or more subject is full of hatred. It's very un-Christian and cruel. We are ALL humans here.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Very nice post RiverMoonLady. I, however, thought you were Pro-Death. I have several small children at home, a baby, preschooler, couple elementery school age kids, a high schooler. The kids really love the care and attention. I thought you wanted kids such as them dead. I thought you had ice water running through your veins. Your post sounds Pro-Life. Do I have you confused with someone else?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Very nice post RiverMoonLady. I, however, thought you were Pro-Death. I have several small children at home, a baby, preschooler, couple elementery school age kids, a high schooler. The kids really love the care and attention. I thought you wanted kids such as them dead. I thought you had ice water running through your veins. Your post sounds Pro-Life. Do I have you confused with someone else?
Why on earth would I want anyone else's children dead??? Every woman has the right to have as many children as she wants! I have two children of my own, both now adults and wonderful, kind, loving, intelligent men. I thoroughly enjoyed raising them, taking them to all sorts of educational and fun places, and teaching them all kinds of interesting things, especially reading and outdoor activities.
I enjoy life but don't fear death, so what does that make me? Death can come at any time by any means. After literally dying in the ER and coming back to life, I have a different view of death than many people. I live my life, help my family and friends whenever possible, be nice to strangers I meet (they might be angels, you know) and help out with community activities. I could pass on at any time and I am comfortable and ready for that.
My blood runs warm and sometimes a little hot. No ice water, sorry.
I am pro-choice (not pro-death) but in a strictly limited way. I abhor the idea of a woman aborting a healthy fetus anytime past 10 weeks and ESPECIALLY past 20 weeks (a safe point of possible viability at present) and do NOT support any type of casual excuse for abortions after 10 weeks. I'm not Catholic, so I don't have to follow church doctrine.
I have a loving family and lots of close friends, so I suppose I'm not such a horrible person. Thank you for your very nice post. I do get annoyed with some posts and get sarcastic, but I try not to be personally offensive. I certainly hope I have never attacked you with my words.

reply from: churchmouse

Carole..that is a statment of opinion.
He held you accountable.,....and that was a good thing.
Vexing your the one that is vile.......so Faithamn wasnt wrong about everything was he?
Curious Liberal on another thread you told me to rot.......LOL
And what brand of Christianity do you like? The one that says sin is ok?
For once I agree with Rivermoon. These gals pretend to care......they dont.

reply from: carolemarie

I objected to being called a baby-killer or a scank or a whore. I object to being told I am not prolife by someone who supports killing abortion providers!
I object to the hateful remarks visited on Vexing and others who post here that are completely unnecessary and just plain mean.
He called me names, he didn't "hold me accountable"

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Churchmouse, we are all more alike than different because we are all humans. Christ commanded us to love one another and did not put limitations on who to love. Hate is a horrible thing that eats people up from the inside out.
All of us, pro-life and pro-choice, want to see an end to abortion. I can only hope that someday, medical advances will allow us to do just that.
Some of us have been through situations that would drive others to insanity or death. You cannot know the hearts and minds of others unless you listen, forgive and love unconditionally.
Thank you for seeing that I do, now and then, make sense.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I had him on "ignore" for a short time, but couldn't resist seeing what kind of - well, one-of-a-kind - posts came from him.
I can only wonder why someone can be so angry so often, and I actually feel sorry for him. He lashes out against total strangers, which is not rational, but if it makes up for some kind of deficit in his life, so be it.
Now that I know he's in Texas, I'm actually worried about him. There was so much destruction and devastation there. I hope he and his family are safe. Let's all keep them in our prayers until we hear from him again.

reply from: yoda

Ah, but you have no problem with her raging, profane attacks on other posters here, right? She's just a little sweetie to you, right?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Ah, but you have no problem with her raging, profane attacks on other posters here, right? She's just a little sweetie to you, right?
Vexing is the most extreme poster here. Her pleasantries include telling people to insert a power drill internally, or to have an encounter with a rusty nail, etc. I wonder if she's a little like Ed Gein. Ed inspired Hitchcock's Pyscho. Is Vexing a Pyscho who dreams of people's bodies being ripped, torn and damaged by rusty nails and whirling power equipment? And then there is always the delightful endearing titles she gives to people, such as douchefag.

reply from: nancyu

At 9:54pm 10/5 you posted this:
And less than 24 hours later you post this:
How very, unkind, uncaring, downright mean of you.

reply from: churchmouse

Yes love all His creation, including the unborn child. Unfortunately you dont and you still remain pro-choice.
That means you are pro-death, same thing. You condone that the human life in the womb be killed if any woman wishes to do so.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Yes love all His creation, including the unborn child. Unfortunately you dont and you still remain pro-choice.
That means you are pro-death, same thing. You condone that the human life in the womb be killed if any woman wishes to do so.
What is it they are pro-choice too? They are pro-choice for the death of a baby.

reply from: carolemarie

And less than 24 hours later you post this:
How very, unkind, uncaring, downright mean of you.
The two posts are not in oposition to each other....Fman does everything I think one shouldn't do. I didn't hope for his death, imprisonment or even wish bad things for him. I simply think the board is more civil without him.

reply from: yoda

And yet, you have nothing to say about vexing's gutter talking, vicious attacks on others..... as long as she doesn't attack you, right?

reply from: churchmouse

I do not believe in name calling period. Faithman might have said it wrong sometimes but his position and how he called people on their values was right. I do not think that Faithman condoned killing abortionists.
And carolemarie how about Vexings comments to Christians? Do you ever call him out?
You killed Carole.......bottom line that is what you did. I did the same. We might be forgiven but that nevertheless changes the act that we did.
I am not so sure about that. I believe that the stances a person take on life says a lot about that person. IMO no Christian that truly loved and worshipped God could condone abortion. So in that sense we are nothing alike. I believe that God created everything and loves His creation.....you obviously don't. I base that on the comments you make here. You condone His creation being killed by being pro-choice.
You pick and choose when you think its acceptable to kill, 20 weeks, 16 weeks, 8 weeks......The gestational age of the unborn does not change the fact that it is one of Gods creations and we have no right to kill it.
I hate no one, not even you. I hate your position and you make me sick to my stomach. All those that are pro-abortion make me sick.
If there is something wrong with abortion, how could you morally condone it? If there isn't something wrong, why would you want to end it?
We don't need medical advances to stop abortion. LOL
You make it illegal.
Well I was suicidal for years over my abortion so don't tell me I haven't been there. I listen to women. I listen to them through my work for over ten years now. I hear them and see the pain in their eyes. But I cant lie and hide the truth about the abortion they had.
Your position on abortion I find immoral, unChristian and senseless.
I agree. I am disliked for the same reasons although I do not call people names. I say what is in my heart what I believe. There are people on here like Vexing that have used vulgar, threatening words and not one word from many here that are bashing Faithman for being hateful. They only call certain people out.
I do not hate anyone here, but their positions disgusts me. God said to love, that doesn't mean we have to like them.
ROFLMAO And you as a pro-abort would know what is rational? LMAO
And he has the deficit in his life? LMAO You are somthing else.

LMAO
I will tell you about anger RiverMoon. I the kind of anger you will never feel until your position changes. Faithman loves the unborn. He is passionate, passionate to the point that it hurts. And many people lash out when they feel something so deeply. I feel the same way. I can't abide, stomach to be around people that so willingly admit that they are pro-choice that they somehow are pro-life. And then to claim they are so kind, they are Christians. I don't buy it. They are not pro-life, their position is not Christian. The thought that when I stand outside abortion mills, that on the other side of the wall they are killing, dismembering one of Gods little creatures, is agonizing. It is only by the strength that God gives me that I am able to do it. That is why you don't get Faithmans passion.
You are pro-abortion and you cant in any way shape or form have a passion for the unborn, not with your position.
Vexing told me to take a pipe and go injure myself. And Carole think Vexings so sweet and I am the horrible one.
I personally miss Faithman and want him back.

reply from: carolemarie

He supported Paul Hills actions and refused to admit that it was wrong. He is prochoice as long as he picks who dies. Go back and read the post if you don't believe it.
You refuse to treat Vexing fairly, insist in calling her a he and do your best to be rude to her. So you get back what you dish out. While I disagree with Vexing i don't call her names. I respect her, even when I disagree with her, you should try it sometimes....

reply from: Cecilia

He supported Paul Hills actions and refused to admit that it was wrong. He is prochoice as long as he picks who dies. Go back and read the post if you don't believe it.
Gracious, I did not know that! But I am not surprised.

reply from: carolemarie

And yet, you have nothing to say about vexing's gutter talking, vicious attacks on others..... as long as she doesn't attack you, right?
I don't like her post when she gets that way and I don't like Kaylibee's pornographic ranting or Xen's comments when they get into their sex lifes, so I quit listening. I tried ignoring Fboy, but he wouldn't let you....

reply from: yoda

Sure he will, all you have to do is put him on ignore....
Have you tried that?

reply from: carolemarie

Sure, I put him on ignore periodically, along with his little band of haters.
However, I don't have to put the others on ignore because they don't troll you around the board spaming hate....
There is a difference...

reply from: churchmouse

I have no clue where this would be and I am not going to spend hours hunting. But I don't believe it. Unless you can find it......because you are making the claim and accusing him, its he said, she said. You provide proof.
You won't answer my question.
I treat vexing very nice considering what vexing has said to me AND YOU KNOW IT. Rude.........oh my dear. The things vexing has said to people........unbelievable. I simply will not acknowledge gender and I am bashed.
I call vexing vexing, NOT HE OR SHE unless i slip occasionally. Its more consideration than VEXING HAS EVER GIVEN ME.
SHOW ME CAROLEMARIE WHERE I HAVE CALLED NAMES. YOU GO HUNT NOW. VEXING WENT SO FAR AS TO THREATEN ME AND YOU CALL ME RUDE?
You are absolutely off your rocker. Rude does not compare to threatening remarks that vexng has said, not only to me but others.
I should try?
You that shows more compassion for the woman than the victim.......no honey you go try. Try to see the real humanity of all this. Cause IMO you miss the mark.
You spin words anyway you wish Liberal.......but pro-choice is pro-abortion. Its the defenses way of hiding.
Both pro-abortion and pro-choice positions oppose legal protection for the innocent unborn.
You tell me.....how does the pro-choicer help the child in the womb that is going to be killed, when they think its every womans decision? LOL
Both are willing for children to die by abortion and must take responsibility for the killing of those babies even if they do not participate directly.
LIberal......... to the baby who dies it makes no difference whether those who refuse to protect her were pro-abortion or merely pro-choice.
Wake up.
Liberal..........question to you, why do you think people are opposed to being called pro-abortion? Is there something wrong with abortion?

reply from: LolitaOlivia

He's probably been out campaigning for Barack Obama. That's where I've been.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Church mouse, I am opposed to calling pro-choicers pro-abortion for many reasons, but the main reason is that pro-choice means pro-CHOICE:
1. Birth
2. Adoption
3. Abortion
If pro-choicers were ONLY promoting abortion then I'd call them pro-abortion. But they're not.

reply from: nancyu

Ask someone who is pro choice what they are pro choice for. If abortion is among the choices they are pro abortion. They are for the legality of abortion. Face it already. I do NOT believe that ANYONE who says they are pro choice is referring to adoption.

reply from: nancyu

You are the hateful hater.
Faithman equates the born with the unborn. There is no difference. If there were a clinic where born children were being slaughtered, what would you do?
Think about it. What would you do?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

NancyU - "Ask someone who is pro choice what they are pro choice for. If abortion is among the choices they are pro abortion. They are for the legality of abortion. Face it already. I do NOT believe that ANYONE who says they are pro choice is referring to adoption."
Sorry you don't believe it, but it's absolutely true. I know a number of pro-choice women who are adoptive parents as well as others who chose to give their children up for adoption.
"Choice" is not choosing ONE single thing, it's picking one of SEVERAL choices. ONE option cannot be a choice - it's a mandate. And the last thing pro-choicers want is a mandate that women MUST abort. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of being pro-choice, does it not?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

CM - "Faithman loves the unborn. He is passionate, passionate to the point that it hurts. And many people lash out when they feel something so deeply."
Yes, we recognize the way he loves the unborn and nobody else. I think he could use some psychiatric assistance for whatever his problem is.

reply from: nancyu

Killing a child is NOT an OPTION! Do you get it? "Choose" something else. If abortion is something you consider an option, then you are pro abortion.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Killing a child is NOT an OPTION! Do you get it? "Choose" something else. If abortion is something you consider an option, then you are pro abortion.
Oh, I get it. Killing a child definitely is not an option, but aborting an undeveloped fetus is fine with me. I also think adoption is a great choice, and having children can be a wonderful experience. Apparently I am pro-abortion, pro-life AND pro-adoption. Guess that makes me pro-choice, doesn't it?

reply from: churchmouse

AND ONE OF THOSE IS ABORTION. ABORTION IS KILLING. A pro-choice person condones someone killing.
What don't you get Liberal. Come on.........
joueravefou you put it really well when you said,
You know I do not namecall or really get down and dirty and bash someone verbally......but boy a few here are pressing even my limits.
Whatever problem HE HAS? You are simply a pathetic person. Many words come to mind but I will not stoop by expressing them here.
Many times in life we meet people that just showcase the lower forms of humanity. You and others like you that are pro-abortion are such people.
To say someone that is against slaughtering, dismembering alive a tiny unborn in the womb, needs psychiatric help is simply idiotic.
What is idiotic Rivermoon are people with morals like yours. Or should I say lack of morals. I do not have to tip toe around here like on Beliefnet, I am able to call you what you are.
Simply sad and pathetic.

reply from: scopia1982

You are not prolife, you are proabortion. You advocate the slaughter of unborn children. So if its an undeveloped fetus, than what do you tell someone who miscarries or has a stillborn ( which is past 5 months)that they wanted? To them they lost a child not a fetus.

reply from: scopia1982

Churchmouse:"Whatever problem HE HAS? You are simply a pathetic person. Many words come to mind but I will not stoop by expressing them here.
Many times in life we meet people that just showcase the lower forms of humanity. You and others like you that are pro-abortion are such people.
To say someone that is against slaughtering, dismembering alive a tiny unborn in the womb, needs psychiatric help is simply idiotic.
What is idiotic Rivermoon are people with morals like yours. Or should I say lack of morals. I do not have to tip toe around here like on Beliefnet, I am able to call you what you are.
Simply sad and pathetic."
Churchmouse you took the words right out of my mouth. Some people like my husband are just misguided on the issue, I am working on him to get him to understand that this needs to be illegal. Others that are so rabid, have to be devoid of compassion and humanity, otherwise they could not support such barbarism.

reply from: churchmouse

Amen to that.
What kind of a person would knowing all the scientific evidence:the ultrasounds, the new technology that tells us so much about the life in the womb still be pro-choice abortion?
Women in the past were not told the truth.....and today they still arent told or shown the truth.
PP does not want ultrasounds shown to woman who is going to abort.
They figure if they see the real humanity of what they were killing......see it move, it might devestate them enough to call the procedure off.
OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND.........the mantra of the abortionist and abortion provider.
I do believe people can change. I know they can. But some peoples hearts are so hardened that change for them is impossible.
That is evident here.

reply from: speck

I'm really not sure what the big deal is.
Pro Abortion is pro for the choice of abortion.
Anti Choice is against the choice of abortion.
I really don't understand why both sides get so offended by these terms.

reply from: yoda

According to what dictionary?
The "SPINNMEISTER DICTIONARY"???????
pro-choice adjective advocating access to legal abortion: advocating open legal access to voluntary abortion http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/pro-choice.html

Compare that to:
pro-a·bor·tion adjective - favoring legal access to abortion: in favor of open legal access to voluntary abortion http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861736813

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I want you ALL to know that Yodavater the Dictionary couldn't make it on another forum that is truly open to ALL, because they have rules of conduct allowing ONLY the terms pro-life and pro-choice. They do that to avoid namecalling, idiotic semantic arguments, etc. Poor Yoda just couldn't follow simple rules.
He is stuck in Yodaland, I guess.

reply from: yoda

Wow...... what a compliment!! THANKS!!
No, we don't have any such rules here, thank goodness.
But in point of fact I "make it" on a lot of other forums, over on Delphi, where some of them have rules, and some don't.
I'm just telling you that because I know you're really, really worried about me, and that you really, really agree that we ought to honor the academic integrity of reputable dictionaries, right?
How great it is to have a friend like you....... now I don't need any enemies!!

reply from: churchmouse

I have gone head to head with you on Beliefnet Rivermoon......and as I said....you baby killers have the upper hand because its an anti-christian, pro-abortion website.
You kiss the arse of Justme and her pro-abort crew......and they let you say whatever you want. Not so here.
You are a pro-abort here and as such we can call you that. It nice to have free speech isnt it?
I am doing something about that site......lets say exposing them.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Churchmouse, as I consider proabort to be an insult, you do most certainly insult people.

reply from: Witness

Posted by LCR: Church mouse, I am opposed to calling pro-choicers pro-abortion for many reasons, but the main reason is that pro-choice means pro-CHOICE:
1. Birth
2. Adoption
3. Abortion
If pro-choicers were ONLY promoting abortion then I'd call them pro-abortion. But they're not.
I've yet to hear anyone claim that pro-choice equated to anything besides pro-abortion anywhere but on-line. It's certainly not what choicers say at the abortuaries.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I've never heard a person in real life say they are pro-abortion, only pro-choice, so for me the only place I've ever seen pro-abortion used is online by pro-lifers who are trying to insult pro-choicers.
When I was pro-choice, I did not call all pro-lifers anti-choice or anti-woman or pro-fetus or any of that nonsense. I call specific people these things only after they prove themselves to be such.
Some people really are "pro-abortion", such as those who encourage abortion as a way to prevent the birth of "imperfect" humans (eugenics), those who think all teens should abort no matter what, and those who promote abortion for all rape victims.

reply from: speck

Sitting here on my desk is Merriam Websters Medical Desk Dictionary.
Anti-Choice = AntiAbortion
Pro-Abortion = Favoring the legalization of abortion
Is this not what both sides claim?
Again, I do not understand the stink from both sides being called by these terms, as they are correct terms.
As far as offense, If one is offended by a term, of course I think the person should have some respect and use the term that is preferred. However, in a place like this thats like asking Mohandis to pick up a weapon and go to war.......Pointless.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I find proabort offensive. If you say it, you will offend me. Simply be aware of this. I am the stronger person, I have chosen not to say words that offend others on this forum because they asked me not to.

reply from: carolemarie

Proof for Churchmouse:
Your hero here supports killing abortion providers:
Originally posted by: carolemarie
Quit supporting the actions of killers like Paul Hill and the burning down of abortion clinics and maybe I will care what you have to say. But as long as you support lawlessness, I don't think your opinion on laws count.
Originally posted by: faithman
I would honor the action of a defender of womb life way before I would care in the least what a baby killer thinks or says.
Originally posted by: carolemarie
What God says on this is what matters. He wrote a commandment about not killing! He also said to love your neighbor as yourself....not shoot people you hate.
Seriously, you need to repent for harboring hate that would approve of taking a mans life from him. Read your bible
Originally posted by: faithman
And your dumb baby killing self does not get to reframe this. It is not about hate, it is about defence. I have shown that the scripture, church doctrine, and constitutional law does inded back up what I have said. All we get from you is your baby killing feelings and opinion. And you have no room to tell anyone they need to repent. The only time you open a bible is to pervert it to suite you so you can cover the crime you committed against the womb child.
Originally posted by: carolemarie
You haven't shown anything that could be called proof. Michael Bray sites some of the same. All of this evil justifiable homicide crap is easily refuted by scripture, which for a Christian should be enough. You ignore the direct teachings of Jesus to support this evil!
Your position is absurd and your logic is non-existant. As long as you support the actions of murderers, you are as prodeath as George Tiller.

reply from: churchmouse

And you say you are pro-life? LOL
We are not talking about any other subject here.......we are debating abortion.
When someone says are you pro-choice.......they know what the question asks. Do you condone abortion? Do you believe that woman should be able to choose.
So dont even go there.
LIBERAL.........IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH ABORTION? YES OR NO.
If there is nothing wrong with abortion, then why are those that are pro-choice opposed to being called pro-abortion?
And if there is something wrong with abortion.....why would anyone condone the right of any woman to kill.
PRO-CHOICE IS PRO-ABORTION
Well gee whiz honey.......that would make them look bad now wouldnt it? Because who would want to admit outright that they condone killing babies.
Pro-choicers want to still somehow come off looking moral. Their position is anything but moral. They hide behind the lable pro-choice to look good.
Hey honey.......I have no problem insulting those that are pro-choice. Not one bit. Nada. If its an insult......and they are that upset to bad. Maybe they should reconsider their position and come to grips with themselves.
You come off trying to be this kind and loving person all of a sudden......when a few days ago.....you told me to "rot". LOL
Then you put me on ignore ran and hid, cause you couldnt provide proof about the things you said i did. You are something else.
Read my lips.............If someone says they believe that the woman has the right to choose death for their unborn THEY ARE PRO-ABORTION. They do not want protection for the unborns that will be killed.
What is so darn hard about grasping this?
To bad. You are not pro-life. You are pro-choice. Be aware? Who do you think you are my dear? You are the stronger person? LOL
You little Miss NEVER SAY THING BAD OR INSULTING?
You are such a hypocrite.
Where does he say Hill specifically? Or death to anyone? I defend the womb life to when I picket and march.
He might have said it other places......but he did not say it here in the example you gave, sorry.

reply from: Draiocht

There is nothing wrong with abortion, just as there is nothing wrong with adoption or choosing to keep it. The beauty of prochoice is that women are free to choose the option that is best for them and/or their families, and the woman's health isn't ignored. Neither are her personal wishes. Prochoice suppors all choices, else there wouldn't be charities dedicated to low-income families and there wouldn't be tax dollars spent on people's decision to breed when they can't afford it. I've honestly never seen nor heard of any tax funding going toward abortion. Every woman I've ever known to abort had to pay from her own pocket and I can guarantee you the doctors delivering children are making more money strapping women up like animals and carving them open with unnecessary C-sections and perineum cuts like animals than men or women performing abortions.
Do you people even realize how much it costs to have a baby in a hospital? Are you aware that the medical community is pushing for laws that would make it illegal for ANY woman in ANY condition to have a baby at home? Have you ever thought about the impact this will have on women experiencing wanted pregnancies? Imagine for a moment how it would feel to be strapped down like livestock, unable to move how you want to relieve the pain and pressure, with strangers staring at parts of your body that you reserved for your husband. Imagine them criminalizing you and your midwife for seeking a more comfortable environment, where you could walk the pain off or sit in a tub of water or however you'd prefer your child to be born. Imagine being arrested when something goes wrong and your wanted child is stillborn.
The "Infants born alive" act would have crippled an already weak medical system and punished women that are already under enough stress. Okay men, can you in your selfish, self-absorbed lives imagine what it would be like to give up an entire YEAR of your life and have every single step you take monitored by strangers? Can you imagine completely changing your diet and having to swallow several pills each and every day, whilst strangers try to pet your stomach as if you are just a damned animal to examine? People you don't even know telling you what to do, treating you like a child and basically discarding any sense of "self" you might have had until some jackass shot inside of you? Meanwhile, your "partner" who got you into this condition in the first place doesn't require hospital checkups and nobody questions a thing he does...even though the condition of his sperm when entering your body could have easily caused birth defects but HE WILL NEVER BE BLAMED FOR IT.
Don't tell me about how bad MEN have it. All they have to do is grunt.

reply from: cracrat

The thought occurs that you're carrying quite a lot of anger about something gender related. Perhaps you should go and find someone you can talk to about it because it really can't be healthy.

reply from: Draiocht

You know, I REALLY don't think I'm the one that needs adjustment here. My mother died a week ago and my husband flew in and he's wanting SEX ever night. Every other male I've ever been with has been the same way. NO, I'm not the one with the bloody problem!!! You penis-wielders are the ones that demand sex for love and then some of you turn around and demand that we suffer further from your sick lust. I'm *****ing grieving here and I'm dealing with penis-wielders that see me as nothing more than a sex toy or an incubator. I am NOT the problem. You males are. If you aren't trying to screw us one way you're trying to screw us another way. The ones that don't try to knock us up try to keep us knocked up and I'm bloody sick of it. Keep your nasty, perverted insensitive selfish hands off of my uterus. Thank you.

reply from: yoda

I don't either, except that proaborts seem to get really bent out of shape when you associate them with what they support, abortion.
Strange, isn't it? btw, I'm okay with "anti-choicer".

reply from: yoda

No, you take it as an insult.
You can take ANYTHING as an insult if you want to, that's on you.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

That's HILARIOUS, because JustMe is PRO-LIFE! MarySara is the PRO-CHOICE moderator. They like to keep it balanced.

reply from: yoda

I think that's a valid point. Whether you agree with their actions or not, it is possible that they do it (in their minds) to protect, not to satisfy hatred. You can't make assumptions about their motives just to make your point.
If your point is that killing is always wrong, then just leave it at that. Don't make up motives for them.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

You are not prolife, you are proabortion. You advocate the slaughter of unborn children. So if its an undeveloped fetus, than what do you tell someone who miscarries or has a stillborn ( which is past 5 months)that they wanted? To them they lost a child not a fetus.
If a woman miscarries a wanted baby or has a stillborn (meaning that GOD decided their babies should end up dead), I am very sympathetic to them. However, I honestly don't care what other women do with their weeks-old fetuses. If they want to have a baby, GOOD FOR THEM. If they want to have an abortion, I hope they do it EARLY - VERY early.
It really isn't any of my business what OTHER women do with their fertility, their sex lives and their reproductive processes.

reply from: yoda

Yep. Everyone on this board knows that when anyone talks about "choice" they are talking about abortion. The proaborts will even tell you that if you challenge their use of the word "choice". So in this context, being prochoice IS being proabortion, period. The fact that they are repulsed by being identified with that which they protect and support is very, very telling.
Yep. If they opened a store, they would call it "Euphemisms R Us".
That's what the dictionaries say.
Hmm........I wonder what that meant?

reply from: yoda

And you don't even mention "their babies", as if they didn't exist.
No wonder you support abortion, you don't even know that unborn babies exist..

reply from: RiverMoonLady

And you don't even mention "their babies", as if they didn't exist.
No wonder you support abortion, you don't even know that unborn babies exist..
If they want to have babies, that's wonderful!

reply from: yoda

And if they want to kill babies, I'll be you think that's wonderful too, right?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I don't care if they kill their early fetuses, but once their babies are viable, and especially after they are born, they deserve (and have) the full protection of the law.

reply from: yoda

Exactly what I thought:
Dictionary.com ba·by (bb) n. pl. ba·bies 2. An unborn child; a fetus. http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=baby
iNFOPLEASE.com ba.by pronunciation: (bA'bE), -n. 5. a human fetus. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0330371.html

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Exactly what I thought:
Dictionary.com ba·by (bb) n. pl. ba·bies 2. An unborn child; a fetus. http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=baby
iNFOPLEASE.com ba.by pronunciation: (bA'bE), -n. 5. a human fetus. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0330371.html
You and your dictionaria! So silly.
What do you see in your mind when someone says "baby?" Is it several pounds in weight, more than a foot long and moving? Crying (unless it has tubes in its throat?) Or is it an inch long and looks like a tadpole?
Sorry, but I see the baby, not the tadpole-looking tiny thing.
http://www.topix.com/album/detail/welch-wv/BNHTO38PKQ26QJ65

And this photo was taken at 5 MONTHS! (it was stillborn)

reply from: carolemarie

Churchmouse----There are TONS of Fboy post showing how prochoice he is, as long as he decides who dies...I showed you one of the milder exchanges.
Unless you support killing abortion providers, Fboy isn't the best poster child for the RTL movement. It isn't his passion for the unborn that drives him, but a thirst for recognition and revenge.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Exactly what I thought:
Dictionary.com ba·by (bb) n. pl. ba·bies 2. An unborn child; a fetus. http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=baby
iNFOPLEASE.com ba.by pronunciation: (bA'bE), -n. 5. a human fetus. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0330371.html
You and your dictionaria! So silly.
What do you see in your mind when someone says "baby?" Is it several pounds in weight, more than a foot long and moving? Crying (unless it has tubes in its throat?) Or is it an inch long and looks like a tadpole?
Sorry, but I see the baby, not the tadpole-looking tiny thing.
http://www.topix.com/album/detail/welch-wv/BNHTO38PKQ26QJ65
">http://www.topix.com/album/det...NHTO38PKQ26QJ65
And this photo was taken at 5 MONTHS! (it was stillborn)
A tadpole-looking thing? Such were you as you grew and developed. And that was you, not a blob of tissue or abstract thing.

reply from: KaylieBee

Lol, pornographic?
You're very sensitive for an ex-whore.

reply from: lukesmom

Lol, pornographic?
You're very sensitive for an ex-whore.
THAT was uncalled for. Now Kaylie it is time for you to grow up a little and clean that filthy little trap you call a mouth. You mother would be ashamed. Stop it.

reply from: carolemarie

No, you take it as an insult.
You can take ANYTHING as an insult if you want to, that's on you.
If you tell someone that calling you a certain term is insulting, and they continue, they are insulting you..

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No, you take it as an insult.
You can take ANYTHING as an insult if you want to, that's on you.
If you tell someone that calling you a certain term is insulting, and they continue, they are insulting you..
Duh XD Common sense really eludes some people, doesn't it?

reply from: Draiocht

Yeah CP, I've got a really horrible attitude, complaining that my husband made an extremely inappropriate and insensitive proposition for sex the night before my mother's funeral. I mean, how DARE I? After all, as the woman in the relationship it's my purpose to ***** on command every time he gets an itch! Just goes to show what sort of "man" you really are, you pathetic worm.
By the by, I mustered the nerve to tell him it was inappropriate and hurtful to make demands (even in jest) like that at such a time and he apologized for it and was very supportive and understanding. Somehow I doubt you'd be the same way, since you evidently think it's a mark of "bad attitude" for women not to spread like whores for their male partners even when grieving the loss of a parent.
What I want to know is why anyone should have to be told it's inappropriate in the first place and why men on both sides seem to feel entitled to sex regardless of the situation or whether their partners are at high risk from it. I'd also like to know why so many of the gender that has to do the least to reproduce feel entitled not only to demand an act that causes substantial risk to the other gender but also feels entitled to force the opposite gender to take risks that they themselves will never have to take.
Maybe it would be more even if women forced to breed were given the legal right to have the males that knocked them up forcibly neutered, so that they could never do it to them or another female again. Or perhaps the men that help create unwanted pregnancies can have organs removed by force if the pregnancy causes organ failure in the women. Until men suffer the same damages and risks involved in reproduction and/or stop demanding sex in exchange for faithfulness or love, they should have NO say in what their partners choose with regards to incubation and birth.

reply from: KaylieBee

Why? She's literally an ex-whore.

reply from: scopia1982

Why? She's literally an ex-whore.
Because people make mistakes and people can change. Your a child, grow up and have some respect for your elders. That is the problem with kids today, no respect for their elders and no respect for themselves. I am almost 26 years old, so it was not that long ago that I was your age, sure we may have cussed like sailors but we made sure not to do it around the grownups . I may not like alot of things about my mom and other adults, but i gave them the respect due them. I still give respect to those that are older than me and I am a grown up. Does your parents know how you talk on here? do they monitor your email and internet access? If not they should, because you are a child and children should not have unrestricted and unlimited access to the internet.

reply from: lukesmom

You have got to be the angriest woman I have come across, angrier than Vexing and that is saying alot. Just because you can't seem to stand up for yourself with the men in your life doesn't mean all MEN are the badness you characterize them as. Actually, what you have written makes you look like an insecure woman who can't say no to a man and actually stand up for herself. Maybe you telling your dh about your feelings about sex is a first step... Don't blame men for your inadequecies girl.

reply from: lukesmom

Why? She's literally an ex-whore.
This question shows you are more immature than I originally thought.

reply from: carolemarie

Geez---well, first of all I am sorry to hear about your mother passing and I agree it was extremely insensitive of your husband to want sex right then....I am glad that you worked it out. But some people react to death by having sex, it's common reaction to a loss....
Men ALWAYS want sex. Sort of like cars want gas...it is how they are wired most women know that at least by 17 or so. Usually if your in a relationship, you both care about each other and you are both mutually enjoying the relationship....there is such a thing as BC and such a thing as the word no. And both people take a risk in a relationship, not just the woman...
I don't know what you are so angry about, It has been my experience that women like sex as much as men....

reply from: carolemarie

Lol, pornographic?
You're very sensitive for an ex-whore.
I just find it incredibly boring.....

reply from: scopia1982

Carolmarie:"I don't know what you are so angry about, It has been my experience that women like sex as much as men...."
I used too very much, but lately I dont want to have sex with my husband for reasons I am sure you can understand. The last 3 times all I could do was cry until it was over with.

reply from: scopia1982

None of my business, but perhaps a good marriage counselor? Females are generally better at that kind of thing as long as they are objective... Unions have been dissolved based on less than that, and men tend to stray under those kinds of circumstances. If you were crying, I don't see how he could perform. That would let the air out of my sails...
Maybe it would do some good. I dont think my husband is going to stray. As far as crying, I just made him think I was climaxing. . He has gotten religious and seems to think its a sin, so he does not ask for anymore. Maybe one of these days I will want to resume it, but not anytime soon. I think it is more him, than a repulsion to sex. The last time he unsuccessfully tried to initate it , I just laid there and didnt resist, didnt respond... he got the hint and stopped. He has not asked for it since.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Um... if I was with a guy and I started crying during sex, I would hope he'd stop immediately! Conversely if I was a guy and my wife started crying during sex I certainly wouldn't keep going, much less do it two more times!!!!

reply from: churchmouse

There is nothing wrong with abortion for those that have no morals or values. Obviously this is you. There is nothing beautiful about killing, in this case the intentional killing of a living human being. There is nothing beautiful about a bucket full of human remains. There is nothing beautiful about trying to live with the fact that you killed something innocent.
But there is something sick about people with your mentality for life. People that think killing for whatever reason is acceptable. The way you refer to the birth process is disgusting.
No person on earth should be able to have the option to do this.
You should step out of the box and investigate abortion because you just simply are ignorant about it.
Planned Parenthood receives millions of tax dollars every year under Title X, which subsidizes their overhead for promoting abortion as they divert more and more resources towards the killing of the unborn.
From the 105th through the 107th Congress, Planned Parenthood abortion services generated a net profit of $300 million. All the while, it cut back non-abortion related programs like adoption, breast cancer screening and infertility treatment.
From the 100th through the 107th Congress, Planned Parenthood directly received almost two and a half BILLION dollars (or 30% of its entire income) from tax dollars under Title X.
http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=1025&department=CWA&categoryid=family

"Do you people?" LOL
Well I am no spring chicken. I am 52 years old and have two grown children. I know about hospital costs. What is obvious here is that you are young and you obviously have never had children, or given birth. You just hate men.
So kill a baby that happens that makes it through an abortion?
UNBELIEVABLE.
If a woman does not want to get pregnant she should either get fixed so that she cant conceive or not have sex. If you say it's a womans body and the decision is hers what she does with it......then that goes for getting pregnant. It is her fault and she must take responsibility. If you don't want to get pregnant keep your legs shut.
Whats this fetish you have with human pregnancy and animals? Taking vitamins.....watching what you eat................etc.
Why don't you go thank your mother for doing all those things for you? Was she out of her mind too? Was your father the "jackass" that shot inside of your mother, that you are talking about? What a sick way of putting it.
You don't lose yourself when your pregnant. Wow do you have issues.
Well if your husband does not respect you, I certainly see why. I think I feel sorry for him.
If you spread your legs.......you ask for what you get. If you are sick of it and don't want to have sex, say no. Quit blaming people.............
There is no balance on that site. I am exposing them by sending correspondences, emails, and links not only to the owners of the site but to organizations and advertisers.
Justme is a biased woman. She is not fair and balanced and she IS PRO-CHOICE. And pro-choice is NOT PRO-LIFE, its pro-abortion. THE SITE IS NOT BALANCED AND I have proof that as I said am sending to some organizations that will expose them.
You showed me nothing. If you cant provide a link or anything better than what you said, you shouldn't say it at all.
I agree. Kaylie how old are you? Junior high, Highschool?
I think you are repulsive kaylie and your mouth is filthy.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

"RIVERMOON......"That's HILARIOUS, because JustMe is PRO-LIFE! MarySara is the PRO-CHOICE moderator. They like to keep it balanced."
There is no balance on that site. I am exposing them by sending correspondences, emails, and links not only to the owners of the site but to organizations and advertisers.
Justme is a biased woman. She is not fair and balanced and she IS PRO-CHOICE. And pro-choice is NOT PRO-LIFE, its pro-abortion. THE SITE IS NOT BALANCED AND I have proof that as I said am sending to some organizations that will expose them."
So, CM, how's that been working for you?
Exposing a very popular website? For WHAT? For having rules of conduct that disallow expressions like pro-abort, anti-abortion, pro-fetus, slut, whore, scanck, etc.? For deleting posts that personally attack other posters? For DARING to allow the free and open discussion of all beliefs and faiths?
It's not a refuge for Christians or for ANY one religion. And it's been my favorite site for years.
Have fun with that venture.

reply from: carolemarie

None of my business, but perhaps a good marriage counselor? Females are generally better at that kind of thing as long as they are objective... Unions have been dissolved based on less than that, and men tend to stray under those kinds of circumstances. If you were crying, I don't see how he could perform. That would let the air out of my sails...
Maybe it would do some good. I dont think my husband is going to stray. As far as crying, I just made him think I was climaxing. . He has gotten religious and seems to think its a sin, so he does not ask for anymore. Maybe one of these days I will want to resume it, but not anytime soon. I think it is more him, than a repulsion to sex. The last time he unsuccessfully tried to initate it , I just laid there and didnt resist, didnt respond... he got the hint and stopped. He has not asked for it since.
Seriously...counseling! Your marriage will end if you keep this up....do not let the past destroy your future...

reply from: churchmouse

Yes exposing a site that does not allow free speech. I am not talking about swearing or using vile language. I am talking about a site that does not allow Christians to use everyday words to describe an act or those that condone an act.
I have an email where she describes and Lables the Bible as hate speech. And she professes to be a Christian and pro-life. She is a liar, anti-christ and pro-choice. I have seen people swear and get away with murder. she is biased and unfair.
As I said, I have proof.......and I am using it to expose them for what they are.
How can someone on the pro-life side debate this issue if they tie your hands behind your back and not allow you to cite certain articles that contain the words pro-abortion, anti-life, abortionist? That says something about the site and their postion on abortion.
There is a thread there addressed to Christians and abortion. Justme participates in the discussion, then days later announces that it should be moved to the Christian thread. Then in the next post says that they would not allow it in the Christian thread because it dealt with abortion. Her back was agaisnt the wall in that debate and she couldnt continue she was being exposed. So on Beliefnet if your Christian you cant talk about abortion anywhere actually or homosexuality in Leviticus for that matter. Justme calls the bible hate speech, yet if your Muslim you can post anything from the Koran.
I have proof.......been working on this for over a year.
THEY DO NOT ALLOW OPEN AND FREE DISCUSSIONS AND YOU KNOW IT. YOUR ONE OF THE FANNY KISSERS THAT GETS AWAY WITH EVERYTHING.
AS I SAID........I HAVE PROOF AND EMAILS TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE ANTI-CHRISTIAN AND PRO-CHOICE ABORTION.
Funny when you email them with a question, it might take two or three days to get a response. I informed them what I was doing......and it took one hour to get a response.

reply from: yoda

That alone tells me all I need to know about it.....

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Yes exposing a site that does not allow free speech. I am not talking about swearing or using vile language. I am talking about a site that does not allow Christians to use everyday words to describe an act or those that condone an act.
I have an email where she describes and Lables the Bible as hate speech. And she professes to be a Christian and pro-life. She is a liar, anti-christ and pro-choice. I have seen people swear and get away with murder. she is biased and unfair.
As I said, I have proof.......and I am using it to expose them for what they are.
How can someone on the pro-life side debate this issue if they tie your hands behind your back and not allow you to cite certain articles that contain the words pro-abortion, anti-life, abortionist? That says something about the site and their postion on abortion.
There is a thread there addressed to Christians and abortion. Justme participates in the discussion, then days later announces that it should be moved to the Christian thread. Then in the next post says that they would not allow it in the Christian thread because it dealt with abortion. Her back was agaisnt the wall in that debate and she couldnt continue she was being exposed. So on Beliefnet if your Christian you cant talk about abortion anywhere actually or homosexuality in Leviticus for that matter. Justme calls the bible hate speech, yet if your Muslim you can post anything from the Koran.
I have proof.......been working on this for over a year.
THEY DO NOT ALLOW OPEN AND FREE DISCUSSIONS AND YOU KNOW IT. YOUR ONE OF THE FANNY KISSERS THAT GETS AWAY WITH EVERYTHING.
AS I SAID........I HAVE PROOF AND EMAILS TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE ANTI-CHRISTIAN AND PRO-CHOICE ABORTION.
Funny when you email them with a question, it might take two or three days to get a response. I informed them what I was doing......and it took one hour to get a response.
Like I said before, how's that been working for you?
It's a public website with MODERATORS and RULES OF CONDUCT. If you don't like it, don't go there. They have no obligation whatsoever to conform to YOUR PERSONAL standards of "free speech."
Anti-Christian? Who gives a rat's ass? They have, oh, two dozen different forums for discussions about Christianity.
Pro-choice abortion? There are pleny of anti-abortion pro-lifers who post there.
You're an idiot, obviously.

reply from: yoda

And you're an imbecile, but it's not quite so obvious. Good job.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

That alone tells me all I need to know about it.....
I enjoy reading and learning about the world's many religions, as well as keeping up with US politics.
You're just *****y because you couldn't control yourself enough to stick with "pro-life" and "pro-choice" and give up all your insulting names when you posted there. THAT alone tells me more than I need to know about YOU - you are an uncontrollable, single-minded FREAK.

reply from: faithman

That alone tells me all I need to know about it.....
I enjoy reading and learning about the world's many religions, as well as keeping up with US politics.
You're just *****y because you couldn't control yourself enough to stick with "pro-life" and "pro-choice" and give up all your insulting names when you posted there. THAT alone tells me more than I need to know about YOU - you are an uncontrollable, single-minded FREAK.
Gosh! The pot calling the kettle black. A pot that is also a low life scum bag baby killing magot. [and no, I am not dead, computer is down, and I have been busy with street work, and our local fair booth] It will be a while before I can get my computer going again, until then I will use my local library. Kinda flattering to see all the concern, even if it is from false pro-life baby killers, and 5th colum secular humanist subversives.

reply from: faithman

Lol, pornographic?
You're very sensitive for an ex-whore.
I just find it incredibly boring.....
Killing three will do that for you, particularly when you kill them to beat it back to your favorite body selling corner.

reply from: Cecilia

None of my business, but perhaps a good marriage counselor? Females are generally better at that kind of thing as long as they are objective... Unions have been dissolved based on less than that, and men tend to stray under those kinds of circumstances. If you were crying, I don't see how he could perform. That would let the air out of my sails...
Maybe it would do some good. I dont think my husband is going to stray. As far as crying, I just made him think I was climaxing. . He has gotten religious and seems to think its a sin, so he does not ask for anymore. Maybe one of these days I will want to resume it, but not anytime soon. I think it is more him, than a repulsion to sex. The last time he unsuccessfully tried to initate it , I just laid there and didnt resist, didnt respond... he got the hint and stopped. He has not asked for it since.
Oh my gosh, that sounds like a terrible situation to be in. Get help!!!
This is going to sound callous, but since youa re so vocal about it, you are not in any position to be telling women what they should be doing with their reproductive systems. No one really is, in actuality, but you really don't have it together. It's like a therapist addicted to cocaine counseling cocaine addicts. No no no.
Please get help...this has to be eating away at your relationship!

reply from: churchmouse

Yes the moderators are pro-abortion and they are not fair and balanced. I have gotten two letters back from advertisers that say they are looking into it.
Of course you do not care about Christianity, you are not a Christian, this comment proves it. LOL
You cant discuss abortion in Christian terms ANYWHERE. WHAT DONT YOU GET?
Idiot? You that condone the slaughter of innocent human children in the womb, and you call me this? Your a joke.
No you dont. You enjoy mocking pro-lifers because you lurk around abortion threads. You enjoy this. And you have a potty mouth especially for someone who claims to be a Christian. Its obvious why you enjoy other religions......
And you who condones killing the life in the womb and who claims to be a Christian.......calls yoda a freak?
ROFLMAO

reply from: scopia1982

This got to be an off topic post. What is "eating away" at my relationship is he cannot understand that I lost a child. Experienced a real loss. That is what makes sex with him repulsive right now. I am seeing a counselor and being on this board is threaputic for me. My threapist encourages it. My husband is ashamed to be married to someone who had an abortion, yet at the same time he supports restricted legal abortion. I am getting help for my issues and he need to get help with his, instead of tellng me to "forget " it and pretend like it never happened. Since he converted to Catholicism and became real religious, he is afraid of what people will think if they find out, he is a lector and communion minister and feels that people will think less of him if they know my"secret." Before that we never talked about it, because I really just wanted to bury it. Since his conversion he has become judgmental and very difficult to live with. Hopefully this will pass very soon. The irony is my parish priest and a couple of other people in the parish already know.

reply from: churchmouse

scopia......the abortion I had was my husbands child as well. He has never missed a nights sleep over it. It never affected him. He really underneath thinks its a womans decision but he refuses to discuss it.
He has not cared that i have worked the past years with pro-life groups but just does not get it. I saw a therapist too when I was really going through tough times. But nothing helped. Christ did, he gave me hope and a new life. The minute I gave my life to Him, the panic attacks stopped. I wont say that self-forgiveness came easy, I still struggle with it at times.
My heart aches for you my dear because I sort of know where you are at.
I would remind him that we all have sinned and fall short. There is not one person at his Catholic Church that is righteous, not one. They are all sinners, no BETTER THAN YOU.
Ask him how much sin can Christ forgive? He forgave the adultering woman, the thief on the cross, Paul who persecuted and killed Christians. He forgave Moses and Noah and Abraham, David even Peter. None of them were perfect and they did not try to be. Your sin could help others see how Christ works and forgives. Gods forgiveness is irreversible, without limitation. Every sin a Christian shall commit is abundantly pardoned by the Lord.
I would ask your husband why His Lord and Savior can forgive and forget sin and he can't? How can we ask Christ to forgive us if we cant do it for others?
God puts the forgiven person's sin behind His back, as far as the east is from the west, and casts the sin into the depths of the sea (Ps. 103:12; Is. 38:17; Micah 7:19).
As long as you have confessed your sin to Christ, that is all that matters. You do not owe anyone else an explanation...your husband, a minister or priest. They do not forgive, Christ does. It is to bad that they dont realize that especially because they are obviously leadership roles.
I would also remind him in a loving way that Christ hated the religious those that put tradition above Him.
Show him scripture on forgiveness.

reply from: CharlesD

What forms those personal convictions? Most people agree that murder is wrong. An atheist might believe so because of the law of the land or just that society has said so for centuries and a Christian might hold belief because God said so. In the end, what's the difference?
If you don't believe in God, then your basis for believing murder is wrong is based on what? The law? If it is based on the law, what would happen if the law was changed? Then if you would still believe murder is wrong, your belief has to be based on something more than the legal system that says it is wrong. You have to believe in an objective standard that all people are accountable to. Who sets that standard? You could argue that societies over the years have established basic rules of right and wrong, but what if your society comes out and changes those rules? Do your personal convictions change as a result?
Now you could argue that society is not likely to come out tomorrow and endorse murder, and you would be right to say that, and I could just as easily say that God is not likely to come out and say, "You know what I told you about killing innocent people? Well, it's ok now. I changed my mind." Whether you believe in God or not, your personal convictions have a foundation. There is some logic you use to come to those conclusions. What would you do if that foundation crumbled? Is a secular foundation more inherently stable than a religious one, especially when you consider that most of our laws are consistent with the beliefs of most religious systems?

reply from: churchmouse

Of course whatever He said would be fine. But abortion is against everything God stands for......its against His character.
I am agaisnt abortion for several reasons. Number one......my faith in God and the Word.
Number two......medical science and what it has shown about life in the womb.
You need not be a person that believes in God to know that abortion is killing, an act of murder.

reply from: churchmouse

There you have it people.......vexing tells me to take a rusty pipe and injure myself and thinks I am the ones who is scary.
I have already been to your country.
We have a lot of fruits and nuts in our country.....you would fit right in.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

She didn't tell you to do it, and there is no rusty pipe in the above quote.

reply from: Cecilia

Gracious, he sounds like he is working through his newfound Catholic guilt by taking it out on you. And he needs a good dose of humility. It isnot my business of yours, but I would not and incidentally did not stay married to a man who treated me like that. I hope you can work it out for all benefits.

reply from: churchmouse

Vexing did tell me to do that....just ask vexing my dear.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Vexing did tell me to do that....just ask vexing my dear.
In the quote you just posted, there is no reference to a pipe at all. Unless YOU can provide the proof you are always asking of me - and which you tried to deny once I provided it because you got caught in your own trap - then move on.

reply from: CharlesD

Could someone please tell me how the vindictive stuff I'm seeing in this thread is in any way helping the cause of the unborn?
It seems to me that someone has succeeded in getting pro lifers off message for a while. Let's just get the people in this board bickering about things other than the topic of the board. That's really helpful.
For the record, Vexing did bring up a valid point, although not necessarily in the manner I would have chosen. Those of us who are Christians have our reasons for opposing abortion, and no doubt for a lot of us those reasons are tied to our faith. But here's the rub. Those arguments don't hold water with people who don't share our religious views. "The Bible says so" will work with someone who recognizes the authority of the scripture, but not with someone who views the Bible in the same light as Lord of the Flies. We have to be able to argue our case using secular and logical reasoning in order to reach people who aren't Christians. There is room for evangelizing them as well, but that's a different topic. Christians only make up about a third of society, so that leaves two thirds who don't share our religious views. Some of them have to join the pro life cause for us to have any success at all. We need to get the non religious people on our side as well. There are already a few here who I disagree wholeheartedly with on religious matters but who I would consider brothers and sisters in the fight for the sanctity of life. Where Vexing is a little off base is in the notion that Christians just believe abortion is wrong because God said so. Yes, that is one of my reasons, but I have valid secular reasons for believing that as well, reasons that are based in science and law. Just because God is part of the equation doesn't invalidate my convictions. The idea that God would come out and tomorrow and all of a sudden tell us it's ok to kill babies is really kind of extreme. That's kind of like saying that bears are going to stop pooping in the woods. But there's a challenge to those of us who are Christians, to be all things to all people that we might win some, as Paul put it. You have to be able to argue the rights of the unborn without using God in order to convince people who don't acknowledge God. I'm not saying you shouldn't witness to your faith, but that when you're trying to save as many babies as you can and convince as many people as you can that killing them is wrong, it's wise to take the most pragmatic approach. I think God will understand, and approve.

reply from: scopia1982

'You need not be a person that believes in God to know that abortion is killing, an act of murder.'
There are many fine athiests/agnostics in the Prolife movement.

reply from: yoda

Aw, gee, you told everyone my secret!!
That place is a cesspool, and I stood it as long as I could. The proabort bias is so thick there you could cut it with a knife.
The problem with sticking with just "prolife" and "prochoice" is that it doesn't address the actual positions of the two sides. Prolifers oppose legal elective abortion, prochoicers oppose legal restrictions on elective abortion, in general. That means in plain language that prolifers oppose the killing of babies for elective reasons, and prochoicers support it.
It's impossible to logically analyze and discuss an issue when you must always use euphemisms, rather than plain language.

reply from: yoda

Hey, get real! Prolifers (in general) don't care what women do "with their reproductive systems", they care about women killing babies.
The very fact that you are stuck on the "Euphemistic terms ONLY setting" tells me that you are ashamed of that which you support.
If you really thought elective abortion was okay, you'd be saying things like "I think it's perfectly fine to kill babies for elective reasons, or for no reasons whatsoever".....
But NO, you have to use silly, clumsy euphemisms to disguise what you're talking about....... you MUST be ashamed of your position.

reply from: yoda

Wow...... you have my deepest sympathy. I can't imagine how it must be to live with someone who is so concerned with appearances..... bummer!

reply from: scopia1982

Wow...... you have my deepest sympathy. I can't imagine how it must be to live with someone who is so concerned with appearances..... bummer!
Alot of people are concearned with appearance....sadly. My parish priests knows, I dont shout it at the top of my lungs, but if the issue comes up I will divulge it. It is his problem not mine, all I can do is pray for the man.

reply from: churchmouse

Geeze oh petes Liberal......its wasnt in that post......it was in a post this summer.
Just ask vexing, its true, in black and white.
Thats not true. I know of many atheists that are pro-life. All one needs to do is to look at what medical science says about life and the unborn in the womb.
Its not even that much because I believe the majority that claim they are Christian simply are not. Take Obama and those who are pro-choice. I do not believe you can condone abortion and stand on the Word of God.
Because no pro-choicer has the guts to use the language that really describes the act. They use procedure instead of kill. They never will use the term "kill". They use terminate. They hide behind these terms and they know it and we know why.
Bravo Bravo............You keep up the good work, God will bless your testimony, don't EVER FORGET THAT. The fact is women are suffering,suffering in silence. God said the Christian walk would be tough, and He never meant us to do it alone. He has forgiven you if you have asked and repented. He washed you clean and put your sin behind you. It is your parish priests problem not yours.
Its so funny because the majority of people I work with at Right To Life and Silent No More are Catholics and very supportive of woman that have had abortions. I work with many of them.
No it boils down to denial of Gods Word and substituting mans word. Its trying desparately to find a loop hole so that sin isnt so bad and more appealing to God.
They can claim to be whatever they want, just because they say they are Christian doesnt make them one, right?
You claimed Obama wasn't Muslim but Christian. You said it was wrong for me to assume that because he grew up in a Muslim home that he was not in fact Muslim. So by the same token you cant assume that all the woman that claim Christianity are in fact Christian.

reply from: CharlesD

I was talking about the religious based arguments. Those are the ones that don't reach non- believers. The scientific evidence should be enough to convince anybody.

reply from: scopia1982

I was talking about the religious based arguments. Those are the ones that don't reach non- believers. The scientific evidence should be enough to convince anybody.
All one has to do is open your basic high school level biology or anatomy books and read about fetal development to realize that human life begins when sperm meets egg.

reply from: CharlesD

This issue really is that simple, isn't it?
It's a shame that some people try to complicate it. Science has already settled the issue, so people have to come up with other justifications.

reply from: scopia1982

It is, but you know the proabortion mentality, nothing simple for them. They have to dance around their euphameisms and stick strictly to their script. If you say or ask anything of them that may cause them to deviate from it, they get angry and upset. And mind you I am talking about secular textbooks, not religious ones. It makes too much sense for the proaborts to understand.

reply from: KaylieBee

Wasn't she arguing about how you're a danger to women because you could ~*~totally~*~ see through the cracks and perv on them while they're using the toilet?
WTF.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yet every time I say the same exact thing, just as politely, I get nonsense responses...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Holy cow yes; I don't even whisper the word God to pro-choicers, becauase I know all I'll get is a vicious attack from them about the flying spaghetti monster. And then they won't bother debating with you logically ever again because they'll assume you're only pro-life because you're christian, and that you're a brainwashed, ignorant, sexist fool.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

This issue really is that simple, isn't it?
It's a shame that some people try to complicate it. Science has already settled the issue, so people have to come up with other justifications.
I haven't met many pro-choicers who deny "life" begins at conception, other than those who specify that LIFE itself began billions of years ago. They all realise a unique human being is created at fertilization. They just refuse to recognize it as a person.

reply from: CharlesD

Even then, those are people who don't understand the meaning of the word "person."
person
. noun (pl. people or persons) 1 a human being regarded as an individual.
In other words, a person is a human being is a person is a human being, etc.
To say a human is not a person would be like saying a dog is not a canine.

reply from: churchmouse

vexing you are a vicious liar. I never ever told you to do that.
Link the evidence. Put up or shut up.
I NEVER SUGGESTED THIS AND YOU KNOW IT.
You said that if you went into the mens bathroom as you are today, that.........that is what would happen to you, not me. I never wished it on you.
But then your a liar.
HA HA You know ole vex is losin it when this happens.....
A LIE until you present the link where I said this.
I never said this vexing. You are a bold face liar.
PROVE IT. LINK THE EVIDENCE.

reply from: churchmouse

Honey you already admitted it.
You told me to do it. Why should I say anything. However you lied when you said I wanted you to get beaten, raped and executed.
I simply said you should not use the womans bathroom because YOU HAVE A PENIS. YOU DO HAVE A PENIS DONT YOU? You provided all the information my dear. And you are a liar and are spinning things because you know your back is against the wall.
You still have male genitals.
YOU SAID IT............WHERE YOU THINK BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN. I DID NOT SAY THAT, YOU DID.
Having trouble comprehending? Cocktail hour start early?
I never said I wanted those things to happen. You still are a liar and have proven nothing.
THIS THE CONTEXT OF WHAT HAPPENED
The Thread.........The same one you provided. "Use the stalls in the mensroom."
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/...MVIEWTMP=Linear
INJURE............you said it. Where did I say what you acccuse me of saying?
I also explained my reassoning.....
I also said ,
I suggested a solution.
I SAID THIS AS WELL.......
And I followed up with this...........
You have said violent things to me and called me names just because I said you shouldnt use the female bathroom and you think I am the one who is horrible?
Rusty pipe, cow.......this is what describes your behavior.
Yea, ya think so?

Concerenedparent was right something doesn't add up with you.
You say you want to be female, that you are more female than the females on this board. That means you want men. But then you say you are a bisexual when Concerned asked about your use of condoms.
I told you I was done with the discussion of your anatomy and was leaving the thread to discuss the topic of abortion. I did not run. I posted in other threads. You just like to be the topic of conversation.......and its not all about you.
Yoda always hits the nail on the head.......God love him.
You are a liar vexing.

reply from: sarah4president

It appears to me, churchmouse, that you are validating a troll. In my humble opinion, it would be wise to ignore and not respond. I don't think anyone takes those accusations made against you seriously, so there is no need to defend yourself.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Vexing, you HAVE to read HouseRat's post where she admits that she used to be a "dancer" and IMMEDIATELY adds, "not THAT kind of dancer", assuming that everyone here is a pervert and would think "stripper" instead of "ballerina" or "tap dancer" or anything else. Supposedly she also has a college degree (in dance?) but doesn't comprehend the difference between "your" and "you're", as well as a number of other simple English words that you and I learned in 3rd grade.
Dancer? In "shows?" Use your imagination, Vexing.
The post is in the thread about "Joe the Plumber."

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Um, Church, how on earth are you ever going to see a lady's private parts in a female bathroom!? Do YOU take off your pants and underwear before getting into the stall? The fact is YOU WILL NEVER KNOW if there is a transgendered or intersexed person in the stall next to you. Hell, a 100% male could be crossdressing and in the stall next to you, and if they sit to pee, you're not going to be able to tell what gender they are. All you have to go off of is their feet, and I'm sorry, but you cannot determine gender from feet. A trans person using the bathroom will not hurt you in any way, shape or form. You will never see her genitals, EVER, so why the hell do you care?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Even then, those are people who don't understand the meaning of the word "person."
person
. noun (pl. people or persons) 1 a human being regarded as an individual.
In other words, a person is a human being is a person is a human being, etc.
To say a human is not a person would be like saying a dog is not a canine.
They do not consider the unborn to be an "individual" because it is connected to the woman.

reply from: scopia1982

"Um, Church, how on earth are you ever going to see a lady's private parts in a female bathroom!? Do YOU take off your pants and underwear before getting into the stall? The fact is YOU WILL NEVER KNOW if there is a transgendered or intersexed person in the stall next to you. Hell, a 100% male could be crossdressing and in the stall next to you, and if they sit to pee, you're not going to be able to tell what gender they are. All you have to go off of is their feet, and I'm sorry, but you cannot determine gender from feet. A trans person using the bathroom will not hurt you in any way, shape or form. You will never see her genitals, EVER, so why the hell do you care?"
If a person is physically a male, transgendered or crossdressing they need to use the mens room. If they have had the surgery than they can use the womens room. We have sex segregated public restrooms for a reason.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Actually, it is becoming more and more popular to have unisex (single) toilet rooms that accommodate handicapped people. Vexing, I don't know if they use them in NZ, but that's probably your best option.
Scorpia, if you want to see the reaction, walk into a men's room some day when you are obviously a woman. They FREAK.

reply from: scopia1982

Actually, it is becoming more and more popular to have unisex (single) toilet rooms that accommodate handicapped people. Vexing, I don't know if they use them in NZ, but that's probably your best option.
Scorpia, if you want to see the reaction, walk into a men's room some day when you are obviously a woman. They FREAK.
I like the idea of single unisex bathrooms better than public multi user ones. One can still have privacy, even more actually. But in multi user ones, we need stricitly sex segregated ones.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Then, if someone is dressed as a woman, she should use the women's room. If a person appears to be a male, he should use the men's room.
Or perhaps, you have never, as I have, had the disconcerting experience of walking into a women's room only to find what appears to a be MAN using it. ("He" was a "butch" lesbian!)

reply from: scopia1982

Usually the Adams apple is a dead give away. I have seen some women that looked very masculine, but they dont have an adams apple.

reply from: CharlesD

You know, most of the time when I'm going to the bathroom, I'm so intent on taking care of my own business that I hardly notice anyone else anyway, so anyone could come in there and I'm probably not going to make a note of it, except when I was in California and a "woman" came in and stood at the urinal next to mine and proceeded to use it. That woman also had a 5:00 shadow, so I figure it was just someone with a rather feminine taste in clothes.

reply from: churchmouse

He does not care if someone objects to his using the womans restroom or locker room, he has made that clear. He thinks his penis makes no difference.
Ahhhh the world is out to get little vexing isnt it?
You blame everyone and everything for your problems. Hire a body guard if you are that paranoid. And you live in new Zealand? Arent people in your country tolerant?
There ya go again.......poor vexing the victim, the one everyone wants to get.
I am going to say this one last time vexing and this is it. I do not care if you look like Pamela Anderson and have size 50DDD's........if you have a penis in which you do.......then use the mens restroom or a family bathroom until you have had a sex change operation.

You know you make a lot of sense. I think I should take your advice sarah4president. This site is about pro-life topics and these guys are pro-abortion. They try to divert attention away from the real subject.
I am arguing with two people that are not worth my time.
Vexing turns every thread around until the focus is on him. And River..... she isnt worth commenting on.
I have proved my case and they know it, so they name call.

reply from: sk1bianca

wow... i actually thought this topic was about faithman.
it appears that everywhere vexing is posting, the subject is quickly diverted to her... condition...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I personally don't know what the problem is with unisexed multiple user bathrooms. Just don't have any urinals, use all stalls. People aren't naked outside of the stall so seriouslly, wtf is the problem?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

It really is quite ridiculous, isn't it? Personally, I don't know how anyone can stand a men's toilet room anyway - the smell is just sickening.
Some companies DO NOT have sexually-segregated toilet rooms (or locker rooms) at all. Without breaking confidentiality agreements, I can tell you that one of America's favorite ice cream manufacturers has both unisex toilet rooms and unisex locker rooms in at least one of their facilities. We got a big kick out of that when we designed the plant. I hear it's a trend.

reply from: scopia1982

If you remember the show Alley McBeal they had that type of bathroom in their office, but it was only used by the office staff, not the general public, so you knew who used the bathroom, man or women. We live in a multi cultural society with people from all walks of life and backgrounds. Should a Muslim woman whos religion preaches very strict segregation among the sexes be forced to have to use a coed bathroom if she needs to go in public? What about a woman who is a sexual assault survivor? There are just some of us women out there would feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea of coed bathrooms. Some of us still have a sense of modesty and proprietry. I know those are no longer virtues in our society, but even some progessive thinking women dont want coed multi user public bathrooms. Why do colleges still have sex segregated dorms and why are some gym facilties out there for women only?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Jesus said this is a perverse and wicked generation. The evildoers strut their stuff now.
The future lies in the Gospel, the Good News that God will replace man's kingdoms (governments, society) with the Kingdom of God. The purpose of the Bible is to call people to receive positions of authority, crowns, to rule.
If you are faithful with a little now, the Master will say: "Good and faithful slave, you have been faithful over a little, I will put you over much."

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

We can be adopted into the family of God. A tremendous and unbelievable blessing. No greater good news.
Your blah, blah, blah comment vexing indicates you are not alert to this very great gift generously made available to live forever and share life and love with others.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Why would I want to live forever?
How...boring.
I'm quite happy with this lifetime and the love I have and will share during it.
Vexing, the Bible says our life is like an early morning dew or fog; as soon as the sun comes up in vanishes away. There is a lot to do in life, more than anyone could do in many lifetimes. Life will only get more interesting, not boring, as one learns and experiences more.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Vexing, wanting eternal life is not greedy. I could say that wanting to be something you were NOT born as is greedy too.

reply from: sk1bianca

IT IS FOREVER, wether we want it or not. our body dies, but the soul is immortal.
christians fight for eternal life of happiness in the presence of God (aka heaven). don't want that? no problem. there's also the other... "choice".
and you are right. eternal life on earth IS boring.

reply from: sk1bianca

we exist after we die because God loves us so much that He wants to share His eternity with us. all of us. but God's love is like fire. if we're not fit for it, it will burn us. people create hell for themselves, not God.

reply from: sk1bianca

sorry you feel that way. i guess we'll see...

reply from: Rosalie

Well said.
I never understood the entire "living forever" thing. From my personal experience, people who are so hung up on living forever are usually people who don't know what to do with their lives, who are dissatisfied and at the same time afraid to change or make a change.
Then it is not love.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

We didn't? How do you know? How do you define "existence"? Simply your biological form? How do you know your soul didn't exist before it entered your body? You don't know. No one knows. So you cannot make solid claims like that. You can only say what you believe. You seem to believe we don't have immortal souls, or that there is any kind of an immortal universal soul within all of us. That's your choice.
I'm definitely not "hung up" on it, but I do believe that there is an energy in me, a "soul", that will return to the whole when I die. It's not really separate anyway; like waves are sort of separate but still part of the ocean.
Then it is not love.
That's like saying water is not water. Just because I love it and someone else lacks the skill to swim and drowns doesn't make the water "death". It just is, and that's what God's love is like.

reply from: scopia1982

I dont mean to sound narrow minded, I can understand someone who is born with both sets of parts or parts of both parts due to an abnormality in fetal developement and I can understand them getting surgery to correct that problem. I have studied abnormal psycology in college and I cannot comprehend the whole gender identity thing. In the DSM it is listed as a mental illness. I had a gay friend when I was in high school that did shows dressed in drag, he even used one of my dresses and looked better in it than I did, but he identified himself as a male and dressed and acted as such outside the shows he did at the local gay bar. But I cannot begin to grasp, why someone would want to mutilate themselves and I cannot see it any other way than as a form of self mutliation.

reply from: lukesmom

How old are you Methuselah?

reply from: yoda

We didn't? How do you know? How do you define "existence"? Simply your biological form? How do you know your soul didn't exist before it entered your body? You don't know. No one knows..
Precisely. It's sort of sad that such simple things as that even need to be pointed out.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

If I have a soul, it is female, regardless of what my body is or isn't.
If God is supposedly as loving as people claim he is, then surely he would let people have the peace of Final Death if they want it.
I, like many others, do not wish for Heaven, or for Hell.
When I die, I want my existence to cease and my consciousness to be a rest, forever.
We didn't exist before we were conceived.
So why would we exist after we die?
You are correct vexing. When a person dies they cease to exist and their consciousness ends. No one goes to heaven. No one goes to a Dante's Inferno type of hell.
sk1bianca is wrong. Man does not have an immortal soul. In fact, an animal is a soul. Soul is a reference to a breathing flesh composed entity.
If a person grabs their study aids they can see these things. Look up immortal in a concordance. The Bible says God alone has immortality. The Bible says when Adam received the breath of life he became a living soul. The Hebrew word for soul, Nephesh, used in the verse about Adam is also used to refer to animal bodies.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Godslaw, YOU are not the ultimate authority on christianity. You are in fact part of a minority sect of christians. I'd say 80-90% of christians believe humans have immortal souls - the same souls that are saved through the love of Jesus Christ. Are you nixing out the whole point of Jesus now? If we don't have immortal souls, you've pretty much destroyed the entire POINT of being christian.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

The Bible says there is a spirit in man, and when he dies, it returns to God. I see the term soul used to express either just the physical body, or the complete existence of a person (body and spirit). The spirit can be termed mind. Our spirit that returns to God at death cannot see, hear, think, sense, feel without a nephish (body, soul). The spirit needs a brain, ears, eyes, etc to sense and process information, otherwise the spirit is unconscious. God has the ability to destroy our spirit (the second death) or like a DVD put it into another body to function again (the saints receive bodies that are incorruptible. Unlike physical bodies, they don't decay or breakdown).
The Bible says we should fear God rather than man. For man can only kill the body. We are to fear God because he can kill both body and spirit. The destruction of the spirit is the "second death". A person's complete existence does not end until God destroys the spirit. There is hope until that time, a person is still considered alive, although completely unconscious after the death of the body.

reply from: Rosalie

How old are you Methuselah?
Personal experience has little to do with age. Do you not know that yet?

reply from: BossMomma

If I have a soul, it is female, regardless of what my body is or isn't.
If God is supposedly as loving as people claim he is, then surely he would let people have the peace of Final Death if they want it.
I, like many others, do not wish for Heaven, or for Hell.
When I die, I want my existence to cease and my consciousness to be a rest, forever.
We didn't exist before we were conceived.
So why would we exist after we die?
You are correct vexing. When a person dies they cease to exist and their consciousness ends. No one goes to heaven. No one goes to a Dante's Inferno type of hell.
sk1bianca is wrong. Man does not have an immortal soul. In fact, an animal is a soul. Soul is a reference to a breathing flesh composed entity.
If a person grabs their study aids they can see these things. Look up immortal in a concordance. The Bible says God alone has immortality. The Bible says when Adam received the breath of life he became a living soul. The Hebrew word for soul, Nephesh, used in the verse about Adam is also used to refer to animal bodies.
I personally believe that each of us has a soul that goes to an after life be it heaven, the summerland, vallhallah or what ever a particular culture may call it. One never knows until death comes. I also believe that animals have souls, hence why I speak out strongly against their abuse.

reply from: lukesmom

Obviously the older you are the more "personal experiences" you have had. I have a 12 yr old who thinks he knows it all too. LOL! Those who think they have all the answers and consider themselves better than everyone else have the most to learn. Bossy said it well when she made the statement about how hard it is to fall from the pedistle you've put yourself on, otherwise known as "eating humble pie".

reply from: Rosalie

Obviously the older you are the more "personal experiences" you have had. I have a 12 yr old who thinks he knows it all too. LOL! Those who think they have all the answers and consider themselves better than everyone else have the most to learn. Bossy said it well when she made the statement about how hard it is to fall from the pedistle you've put yourself on, otherwise known as "eating humble pie".
Except I am not 12, but nice try.
I never claimed I know everything - you should work on your comprehension. I said that experience and age are not the same thing. I definitely stand by that.
Again - I'm a bold person. Humble doesn't do much for me. And it's pedestal. Come on, it's not that difficult a word to spell.

reply from: Rosalie

That's your opinion, that's your belief - if you really believe that, more power to you. I always say, though, that you cannot apply your personal beliefs on other people.
I'm sorry but that's a very bad analogy, it doesn't work at all.
From what Christians say, God's low should be bigger and better than any other kind of love. I couldn't live with myself if I loved my child the way you claim your God loves his sheep. That's just not love. I do not want that kind of love, it's horrible to me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Rosalie, I have never applied my personal ethics to anyone!! Shut up and READ a little of this forum and you'll realise I'm the first person to speak up and say that personal religions cannot be used to legislate laws.

reply from: Rosalie

Why so angry? You people are really amusing. So easily angered ...
I never said you applied your personal beliefs to anyone. I merely pointed out that I consider it wrong to do so. I never said you were doing it.
Seriously, calm down.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Uh, let's quote you, goldfish brain:
Sure as hell looks like you're talking about ME and MY personal beliefs right there. I didn't even mention religion and you brought it up for no reason at all!! I can't help but think you have ASSumptions about all pro-lifers: You think we are all Christian extremists who hate women and want to convert the whole world. Maybe you should leave such stereotypes at the door? There was no precedence for your remark unless you were drawing from these assumptions.
I get angry when someone accuses me wrongly.

reply from: churchmouse

Liberal said, "Rosalie, I have never applied my personal ethics to anyone!! Shut up and READ a little of this forum and you'll realise I'm the first person to speak up and say that personal religions cannot be used to legislate laws."
But our laws from the beginning in America reflected the Judeo-Christianity.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Actually they reflect Deism as many of the founding fathers were Deist.

reply from: Rosalie

Sure as hell looks like you're talking about ME and MY personal beliefs right there. I didn't even mention religion and you brought it up for no reason at all!! I can't help but think you have ASSumptions about all pro-lifers: You think we are all Christian extremists who hate women and want to convert the whole world. Maybe you should leave such stereotypes at the door? There was no precedence for your remark unless you were drawing from these assumptions.
I get angry when someone accuses me wrongly.
I was talking about YOU but I never said you were doing it. I said it would be wrong of you to do that. Do you see that difference? Or do you want me to try to explain it to you again?
Your passive-agressive attitude you are attempting needs some polishing, by the way. And your guess about what I think about pro-lifers is wrong. By the way, do not be deceived by the fact that I rarely post here. I have enough experience with pro-lifers, who they are, what they do, how they think. And I also know that pro-lifers, though I disagree with them as a group, are also individual people and should be treated as such.
Stop making assumptions and if you want to use passive-agressive attacks, learn it properly. It does not do much for your position, though.
And I won't even comment on your personal insults. For someone who seems to be so much against stereotyping people you seem to do everything you can to get as close to a "typical" pro-lifer as possible, with all these insults and mindless attacks.

reply from: lukesmom

Obviously the older you are the more "personal experiences" you have had. I have a 12 yr old who thinks he knows it all too. LOL! Those who think they have all the answers and consider themselves better than everyone else have the most to learn. Bossy said it well when she made the statement about how hard it is to fall from the pedistle you've put yourself on, otherwise known as "eating humble pie".
Except I am not 12, but nice try.
I never claimed I know everything - you should work on your comprehension. I said that experience and age are not the same thing. I definitely stand by that.
Again - I'm a bold person. Humble doesn't do much for me. And it's pedestal. Come on, it's not that difficult a word to spell.
Not 12? Never said you were, I said my son is 12 and you sure aren't my son! You do come across as pretty immature so forgive me for thinking you are still inexperienced in a lot of life experiences. I can also tell "humble doesn't do much" for you. You would do well to learn a little humble. I wouldn't say you were "bold" rather arrogant, instead... and angry and I wonder why you come here. Are you trying to convince yourself you beliefs regarding the killing of the unborn are justified? Are you here to learn about prolifers and our position or are you here to troll? Just curious as you have been pretty insulting and not very respectful.
Pedestal may not be a hard word for you to spell but it is for me and looking up every single word I write is time consuming so some misspellings slip through. My apologies if my spelling errors in some way bothers you. I have made a success of my life and career dispite my spelling problems. I know my failings, do you know yours?

reply from: Rosalie

You compared my opinion to that of your 12 year old son. That implies that according to you, I'm a child - which I am not. Try to keep up. I have already noticed that everyone who disagrees with you is immature/embodiment of all things evil etc. so forgive me if I don't take your opinions about someone whose few posts you have read on the internet seriously at all.
I don't share your opinion and, as a general rule, don't consider opinions of people whose beliefs are completely opposite of mine important.
Yes, yes. I am pro-choice therefore I am evil. Think whatever you please about me. It's funny to see you judge a person like that but it obviously makes you feel good. So by all means keep going, it does nothing for me.
I don't need to convince myself of no such thing. I know all there is to know about the stance I support and I don't feel I need to justify that at all.
I think I learned nearly everything there is to learn about people like you and your position over the past ... let me see ... 12 years. But thanks for your concern.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll, lady.
I have not said one swearword or an insult to anyone here. Please stop lying. I have actually been called a few things - all that only because I am pro-choice, but I don't make a big deal of it because I don't expect much from the likes of you.
Good for you. I just hope you never taught English.
I do and I make an honest effort to work on them. Can you say the same?

reply from: lukesmom

No, I didn't compare your opinion to anyone's. I said: "I have a 12 yr old who thinks he knows it all too." Which means you think you know it all same as a preteen thinks he knows it all. Truthfully, you don't hold the same opinions he does. His are healthier when it comes to the abortion issue. You are really making some generalizations here too. You are one of the very few here I have called immature. There are several "prochoicers" here who aren't immature at all and I don't consider choicer's evil as a whole and actually converse rationally with several. I do consider abortion and the people who perform abortions as evil. You are guilty of generalizations and assumptions of me and other prolifers here. That, and the anger you show in your posts, intentional or not, makes me wonder about you.
There's another difference between us. I do care about other people and are interested in their beliefs. I also respect those beliefs as long as those beliefs don't hurt others as in abortion.
Read above as I have already answered this unwarrented accusation.
Then why are you here?
Again you are making accusations and generalizations about "people like" me. You don't know me same as I don't know you yet you come barging onto a PROLIFE forum uninvited spewing rudeness and thinnly veiled accusations about "people like" us.
See above. What do you think a troll is? Again, why are you here? You never did answer that.
This paragraph is a case in point. What is the "likes of you" statement? Could it be an insult. Of course it is and an angry one too.
No, I am an RN. LOL! I could easily be an English teacher, in fact when I graduated many years ago that was the recommendation as a career. Takes more than spelling to be an English teacher.
Why of course. I am an impatient person and it is taking great restraint on my part in "talking" to you as you have been very rude and nasty.

reply from: Rosalie

You compared my opinion to an opinion of a 12 year old kid. That implies something. If if didn't, why would you have posted it?
And again, you did not even bother to read my reply, did you? I never said I know it all. I said that experience and age are not the same thing. I definitely stand by that.
I have to wonder why you find that to be such a controversial statement.
That's your opinion. I think that if they are the same as yours, they're as unhealthy as they can get.
And?
You are quite wrong, there is no anger involved. I don't think that the majority things posted here are not worth getting angry about. This is the internet and it has little bearing on real life. No, I'm definitely not angry. But keep yourself telling that I am angry if it makes you feel better.
You are making stuff up again. Of course that I mostly care what other people have to say. I agree with some of it, I disagree with some of it, but what people on the internet say to me has no bearing on my real life, especially when it's people like you (and by that I mean pro-lifers), therefore in real life it's not important.
Too bad that your stance has the potential to hurt women.
To check where the extremists from the pro-life movement stand nowadays. To check if anything's changed. It's been years since I've discussed this topic online and as I have been working the entire weekend, I let myself browse this forum when I needed to take a break.
I would very much like to know what you consider rude. I have been very calm and courteous - and I didn't have to be because I have already been called names here.
It's not an insult. I used it simply to avoid repeating "pro-life". Sorry if that bothers you too much.
And again, your baseless and rude remark about me being angry.
Of course it does, but spelling is very important, too.
I have not, stop lying about me, please. It is actually you who are being really rude, nasty and ill-mannered towards me for no reason. Try to read my posts with an unbiased mind and maybe we'll start getting somewhere. Just a suggestion.

reply from: lukesmom

#1 I didn't compare your opinion to anyone's much less my 12 yr olds. Nothing was ever said about "opinions". Please show me where I said anything about "opinions" and my 12 yr old in my op.
#2 I actually agreed with you that experience and age are not the same thing but the greater the age the more experiences one may have in life. How that is controversial, I don't know.
#3 My opinions being unhealthy is your opinion so don't state it as fact, unless of course you do have some facts, which I doubt since you don't know me enough to know my opinions. You just presume you know.
#4 No anger involved? You are kidding yourself because the anger flows through your posts. Too bad you can't see that. I am willing to bet alot of others here can.
#5 The internet has a lot of bearing on real life, that is why I am here as well as in real life. The internet reaches so many more people with so many different experiences to learn from and to teach. If it means so little to you, why do you bother?
#6 I feel pretty good already. Truthfully, at this time, you don't have the power to make me feel good or bad. Thank you though.
#7 I try very hard not "to make stuff up" (rude comment btw) sometimes I misunderstand because that is easy to do on the net. Kinda like how you expected I would know your reference to "people like" me (rude comment) actually was refering to prolife people. A better way to phrase it would have been to actually say prolife people. Now if you haven't yet figured it out, prolifers are as diverse as "choicers" and lumping us all together and generalizing is as rude as all "choicers" being lumped together. Get it?
#8 My stance is to protect innocent unborn children AND women. I have talked to too many women who have been exploited by well meaning doctors, SOs, family, and the greedy abortion industry. I am a woman, I have sisters, a mother, a daughter, women friends; why would I want to hurt women? Actually I want to save all the females women are now killing through abortion.
#9 I am glad you are not trolling. We get a lot of those trying to make trouble and distracting the forum.
#10. I haven't called you any names and haven't intentionally been rude. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in you possibly were not intentionally rude either. I am sorry you have been called names here. I have been guilty of doing that to posters who have made intentional comments ment to hurt. I am trying very hard not to be sucked into the nastiness some posters create and it is harder than I thought it would be.
#11 I do not lie. I have no reason to and it is rude to insinuate anyone is intentionally lying unless you can prove it. I am also not biased because I have seen people change here and other forums. So far you haven't said or showed any evidence to convince me abortion is anything but intentional killing of the unborn and the explotation of women.

reply from: sk1bianca

ok... this time YOU brought it up, vexing...

reply from: yoda

That's all vexing is really interested in talking about... have you noticed?

reply from: CharlesD

I call 'em as I see 'em.

reply from: lukesmom

So, are you happy to shower with transmen, Churchmouse?
You still haven't answered and are STILL running away from answering.
All you have to do is say 'Yes' or 'No'.
I think we will take further silence on your behalf as a 'No, I would not be comfortable sharing female facilities with transmen, which makes me a flaming hypocrite of gargantuan standards consistent with the rest of my bigoted behaviour on here."
Vexing, you have reverted to your mean, angry old self. I don't see that as a good thing but doubt if you care. Get a grip woman and get over yourself. Most of us here don't really care one way or the other about all your gender issues. If you were comfortable in your own skin you wouldn't care what cyberspace people thought of you. What matters is what YOU think of you. Enough said.

reply from: Rosalie

Then why did you ever mentioned your kid? I feel kind of lost here at the moment.
It never looked like that you actually agreed with me on that but I might've misunderstood.
I never stated that was a fact, I always pointed out that I'm expressing my personal opinions.
And like I said before, I've been around for much longer than I have been registered. I know quite a lot about where you stand.
You are wrong. When describing my feelings when I post, I would use words such as amused, unaffected and slightly sarcastic. Definitely not angry.
My experience has been different.
And like I explained to you before, I checked to see if anything's changed and what's up. Why does that bother you?
Very very true.
I find it rather amusing that you are giving me this condescending attitude when all this time it's been you (and a few other people - Liberal, for example) who never bothered to get to know what I think but just automatically went with your mindless generalizations about pro-choicers.
I HAVE been treating you like an individual. You identify yourself as pro-life which means you are against abortion. Is that such an unreasonable thing to presume?
Yes, and? Do you think women cannot be anti-women?
I wouldn't know if YOU are or are not - I don't think you MEAN to hurt women but you simply do not realize/deny/refuse to accept that your pro-life stance HURTS women.
I really am not. I'm usually not around much, I've only been in these past few days because I had a lot of computer work and I just logged in here when I needed a break.
I generally prefer spending time with my family and friends to being on the internet - and I really do not have much free time (to spend on internet) anyway most of the time, that's why I'm not around on regular basis.
I haven't been intentionally rude, either. We have actually agreed that it is very easy to misunderstand people here on the internet. We can't convey tone or facial expressions so it's only too easy. I'm slightly sarcastic but I'm rarely ever rude or nasty. I'm definitely not rude or nasty over posts on the internet. I just don't think it's all that important to get all worked up about, you know?
Neither you nor any other pro-lifer has ever showed me any evidence or gave me not even one good reason why I should surrender the right to decide about what happens to/inside of my body, especially when it has the potential to damage my health, both momentarily and permanently. I will never give up my reproductive rights. That would go against everything I believe in, everything I stand for, all that is good and right.

reply from: Rosalie

I call 'em as I see 'em.
Not insults. I was stating the truth.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You're just as immature as Churchmouse, Rosalie. You think that just becuse it's your opinion, that makes it not an insult. Well sorry to burst your bubble, but calling someone a liar is an insult. You insult people.

reply from: Rosalie

If you think so, why do you mind so much? You have said very insulting things to me in the past two days - but you seem to be strangely okay with that.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Is calling a thief a 'thief' an insult?
Yes. It may be true but that doesn't mean it's not insulting. I am a woman; but coming from some men, being called a "woman" is indeed an insult, because they are implying I am "just" a woman. Even if I was a thief, I'd still be offended to be called one, unless my morals were completely nonexistent.

reply from: Cecilia

Is calling a thief a 'thief' an insult?
Yes. It may be true but that doesn't mean it's not insulting. I am a woman; but coming from some men, being called a "woman" is indeed an insult, because they are implying I am "just" a woman. Even if I was a thief, I'd still be offended to be called one, unless my morals were completely nonexistent.
If you have insecurity you would be offended. If it's true either embrace label or if it's not, prove why it's wrong.

reply from: churchmouse

Yes she has but she doesn't see it that way.
Then what do you call vexing and concerned my dear when they do the same thing? roflmao.
You do it too Liberal. Aee you guys immature as well?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Churchmouse, I am not attacking you because you insult people. I attack you because you lie about doing so. But you confessed on the other thread to the fact that you do, in fact, attack the other posters, so for once you told the truth.
I do not lie about attacking other posters. That's what I'm calling immature.
As I said before, I personally don't find the word "retarded" to be offensive, but some people on this forum do. Just because I am not offended doesn't mean I wasn't insulting them. I still was. YOUR perception is irrelevant.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No Cecilia. That's like saying a woman who is sexually harassed at work is just insecure about herself. That makes you sound like a sexist pig. Burden of respect falls on YOU; it does not fall upon the victim to "be stronger" or "get over it" or to "stop being insecure".

reply from: lukesmom

Why am I not suprised. I took you off iggy because I was told you changed and you had for a short period. Now you have reverted to your old nasty ways so back to iggy you go. Life is too short to listen to such insecurity and anger.

reply from: lukesmom

Ahhh, life is good, no fboy or vexing!

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Hah! That does make life better! I still have everyone off ignore... we'll see how much longer I last.

reply from: carolemarie

ignore is like the valium of this board....makes it all pleasant

reply from: lukesmom

I don't generally use it because I feel everyone potentially has something of value to say. Unfortunantly sometimes a poster's negatives outweigh their positives and in Vexings case right now there are only negatives IMHO. If something changes feel free to let me know.

reply from: Cecilia

No Cecilia. That's like saying a woman who is sexually harassed at work is just insecure about herself. That makes you sound like a sexist pig. Burden of respect falls on YOU; it does not fall upon the victim to "be stronger" or "get over it" or to "stop being insecure".
No it's not "like" that at all. Calling someone a "woman" when she is a woman, and sexually harassing a woman are two completely different things. Calling a thief a thief isn't offensive; they darn well are a thief!
If you think someone is insulting you when they call you "woman" you have issue. There is nothing wrong with being a woman, don't let the Bible beaters get you down like this.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

That's your perception Cecilia, and mine is clearly different. That doesn't make either of us wrong, but it does mean we have to be mindful of other people's opinions, and respect that they may be offended by something we say.
And by the way, yes, the examples are exactly the same. Calling someone a woman COULD BE considered sexual harassment; furthermore, a man may be sexually harassing a woman and not even realise that he is making her feel uncomfortable. That doesn't make him RIGHT in his actions, that just means he's oblivious. The woman is STILL offended even if the man's intent was not to insult her.

reply from: churchmouse

I am warning you again vexing quit harrassing me in pm's.
Stop it now or I will report you. The pipe comment wont go in your favor.

reply from: scopia19822

"And by the way, yes, the examples are exactly the same. Calling someone a woman COULD BE considered sexual harassment; furthermore, a man may be sexually harassing a woman and not even realise that he is making her feel uncomfortable. That doesn't make him RIGHT in his actions, that just means he's oblivious. The woman is STILL offended even if the man's intent was not to insult her."
I have been called Woman several times and I have been called a lot worse. As far as sexual harrassment goes it seems common sense has gone out the window. I think it is sad that a man cannot tell a woman these days that her hair looks nice or a new outfit looks nice without fear of being charged with sexual harassment. If he calls her names like slut, touches her inapproriatly, out right demands sex or things similar in nature, that is harassment.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Scopia, that's your opinion, but burden of respect lays with YOU, not the offended.

reply from: churchmouse

You want me to post them vexing? LOL
Yes there was a pipe comment.....you just are trying to block things out of your mind. And I dont blame you. You said some horrible things to people.

reply from: churchmouse

Honey I don't need to......you admitted to saying it. LOL
You said.........."I TOLD YOU TO DO THAT"
"Go ****** yourself with something Rusty and pointed".......now that could be a lot of things couldnt it?"
You have used profanity before here.........is the word that is ******* out bad?
What fits in there vexing?
I never suggested or said I wanted violence to happen to you. You drummed that one up on your own.

reply from: lukesmom

Vexing, KNOCK IT OFF and start acting like a mature adult instead of an immature preteen. And Church stop feeding the troll. Put her on ignore and be done with this.

reply from: scopia19822

Churchmouse I think you should post them. I am sure it is alot more vile than what is posted on the public forum.

reply from: scopia19822

I'd post my PM's to her, publicly, in a heartbeat.
Sadly, my old account doesn't work
And whos fault is that ?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I don't know why you people are still listening to her. I put her on ignore immediately.

reply from: scopia19822

The admin.
I wonder why I never got so much as a warning?
Maybe because people were sick of your psycodrama and enough people have complained.

reply from: churchmouse

VExing is sick that much is obvious, getting sicker and more violent in language every day. We can all see him unraveling. I think I will sit back and just watch.
He will soon self destruct.

reply from: scopia19822

CM I think Vex and many of the PC posters on here will be highly offended by you calling Vex "him". After all Vex is a "her".

reply from: churchmouse

Vex does not treat anyone here with respect. He is intolerant and I do not believe a word he says. He has a vile mouth and he could care less about anyone here. The way he made fun of RiverMoons health problems were uncalled for. I do not believe he is a she, sorry.
He is one thing one day and another the next.
A woman would never act the way he does. In fact most men dont even act that way.
I don't care how many chromosomes you have or dont have anymore, ..........I don't believe anything you say. You do not warrant respect of any kind here IMO not the way you treat people.
As I said I feel sorry for you. You have to belittle people to pump yourself up. You mock pro-lifers, Christians and anyone who challenges your position.
I have no idea who you are and I do not care. Why we all continue conversation with you is beyond me. Whoever said put you on ignore had a good idea.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Faithman has been gone a long time. Have we seen the last of him?

reply from: Cecilia

A lie, I have been treated with respect from Vexing. Possibly because I am not a bigot.

reply from: Rosalie

That's so horrible..... I'm so sorry. Who ARE the "people" capable of doing something like that?

reply from: churchmouse

Vexing you will never get it until you step back and think about things other than yourself. Everything is always about you, and if they arent, you try to change things until you are the topic of conversation.
You are that person. You are the one who bashes posters here. You have a vile mouth and you have said cruel things directed to people going through terrible times. You do not respect people especially those that oppose your views. You ae the most intolerant person on this board.
Look up this word, narcis·sist vexing......it describes you.
You bring up a fake scenario here to imply that this is what I would want to happen to you. You are pathetic. I have never ever said that I would want violence to happen to you or anyone for that matter. I am sure it has never happened to you either. Your a big talker....you just always want to play the sympathy card, vexing the victim. You might fool a lot of people here but you dont fool me skippy.

reply from: ProInformed

Have you ever once considered that the men you prey and prank on feel violated and assualted by your dishonest come-on towards them? It is not normal for men to be sexually attracted to other males - THAT IS WHY you disguise yourself as a female to basically commit homosexual assault against your male victims without them knowing your a guy. THEN when they find out that YOU have defrauded them and involved them unknowingly in homosexual foreplay, of course they are going to be repulsed and DEFENSIVE against your perverted and dishonest scheming!
Sheesh for all the screaching that homosexuals do about people needing to accept their right to choose their own sexual orientation, you sure don't extend that right to the males you try to use, do you? You pretend to them you are something you are not and then pathetically pretend that you are their victim when they find out the truth and defend themselves AGAINST your perverted advances. Why don't you just tell them the truth up front? Because YOU lack respect for THEIR true sexual orientation, YOU want to impose your homosexual preference on THEM, YOU want to trick them into having homosexual sex with you with zero regard for THEIR preference and safety.
Basically you are trying to homosexually assault male heterosexuals...
and then you want a pity party when they realize what you're up to.
What percentage of so-called 'hate crimes' against homosexuals are really just heterosexuals DEFENDING themselves against UNWANTED homosexual rape attempts?
You want to be a woman? IMHO you should try being a human being first.
You have NO RIGHT to EXPECT heterosexual males to have sex with you,
no right to try to trick them into having sex with you.
IMHO the nasty promiscuous posing you do in order to try to con males into having homo sex with you should be illegal. That man you sexually assulated should have had your pathetic butt arrested.

reply from: scopia19822

" THEN when they find out that YOU have defrauded them and involved them unknowingly in homosexual foreplay, of course they are going to be repulsed and DEFENSIVE against your perverted and dishonest scheming!"
That does not excuse violence, but niether does that excuse dishonesty.
"Sheesh for all the screaching that homosexuals do about people needing to accept their right to choose their own sexual orientation, you sure don't extend that right to the males you try to use, do you? You pretend to them you are something you are not and then pathetically pretend that you are their victim when they find out the truth and defend themselves AGAINST your perverted advances. Why don't you just tell them the truth up front? Because YOU lack respect for THEIR true sexual orientation, YOU want to impose your homosexual preference on THEM, YOU want to trick them into having homosexual sex with you with zero regard for THEIR preference and safety."
Most gay people do not try to force their sexual orientation on others. Most just want to live their life and be left in peace, sadly you have some like Vex here that give them all a bad name and make life that much more difficult for them. There are straight men who try to force themselves on lesbians convinced that once she experinces sex with a "real man" she will want to have sex with men as well. Yet we dont hear a big public outrage against that.Rape is not a crime about sex, it is about power and control. Whether a person is gay or staright, they dont have the right to force themselves on anybody. And in the case of trannys they have the moral obligation to tell anyone they have been involved with the truth. As far as Vex goes, if Vex want to dress as a woman and have sex with men, why not go to a gay bar? That is the sort of place that one would expect to find men dressed as women.
"You want to be a woman? IMHO you should try being a human being first."
I agree .
"You have NO RIGHT to EXPECT heterosexual males to have sex with you,
no right to try to trick them into having sex with you."
I agree with you on this. This goes for any one gay or straight.
"IMHO the nasty promiscuous posing you do in order to try to con males into having homo sex with you should be illegal. That man you sexually assulated should have had your pathetic butt arrested"
Sexual Assault is Sexual Assault, whether man on woman, man on man, woman on woman etc and those who do it should be arrested. However this has nothing to do with sexual orietation per se, but its about deception and do something to another without their explict consent.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

ProInformed said to Vexer:
Have you ever once considered that the men you prey and prank on feel violated and assualted by your dishonest come-on towards them? It is not normal for men to be sexually attracted to other males - THAT IS WHY you disguise yourself as a female to basically commit homosexual assault against your male victims without them knowing your a guy. THEN when they find out that YOU have defrauded them and involved them unknowingly in homosexual foreplay, of course they are going to be repulsed and DEFENSIVE against your perverted and dishonest scheming!
My response:
The Bible says a man shall not dress as a woman and a woman shall not dress as a man. It is illegal to use deception.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I disagree 100% with you, GodsLaw.

reply from: Rosalie

It is frightening that there are still people like you among us.
You all should be ashamed of yourselves, forever. Your intolerance will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Hopefully strongly enough for you to realize what an abhorrent attitude you have exercised towards another human being.
But I forgot, Vexer is not a fetus so it's absolutely all right to attack her in the most vicious manner. So much for compassion and goodness. These are your true colors.

reply from: Rosalie

What dishonest come-on? She is who she is. She's not pretending to be anyone else. You just can't wrap your head around that, can you?
It's perfectly natural and normal.
You clearly do not understand anything about transgendered people. If you do not have a clue, then don't even attempt to comment as it only makes you look extremely uneducated and simply stupid.
WHY are you so hung up on YOUR assumption that trans people are homosexual? It is just NOT true.
It's clear that you have huge issues with homosexuality, which in and of itself is a extremely sad attitude to witness, but to extend your homophobic views on something that has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality is just as apalling, especially because you use homosexuality as an insult.
Only people with extremely warped views of homosexuality and transgendered (is that the right term, Vexer?) people and people who are extremely insecure in their own sexuality would be repulsed in such scenario.
So I guess this post of yours says a lot about you -- and those who agree with you.

reply from: yoda

Every word posted about any of the "vex" characters is another step away from the discussion of abortion related topics.

reply from: churchmouse

That is why should the Hate Crimes Bill go through.......it would be disasterous for the country. It would give minority groups more protection and take free speech away.
You are right, they do have a moral responsibility to tell their partner the truth. But we have people like vexing that state that whatever information that they have conceiled, its no ones business. So lying is ok.
I do not condone violence against anyone unless if that person was attacked.
Vexing is not a Christian so he will quickly mock this statement. He hates Christianity and those that follow Christ.
We should be ashamed? Our intolerance?
What about vexings intolerance and behavior? He should get a free pass because he makes himself out to be a victim rosalie?
The only thing that will bite people in the rear end is the truth. And God is the truth. He will judge.
How has vexing treated people on here, Rosalie? Swearing, using violent language, threats.........Even going so far as to make fun of someones mental state because they had a medical problem and surgery. Using the F word, the C word.........nice behavior eh rosie?
Does behavior like that deserve respect?
Bolonga. He is who is he. And I for one do not believe much of what he spews here. How do you know Rosalie that what he says is truth?
Do you know who I am? I am Mrs. Donald Trump and I am typing this from our Trump Tower penthouse. LOL
Sad. And you have not addressed Vexings attitude and behavior. Is he tolerant? Does he care about hurting people, people that dissagree with him? We should accept his situation and take whatever he dishes out? Most of us are Christian here. Homosexual sex is sin. In fact any sex outsdie marriage is sin. Do you expect us to go against what our God says is an abomination?

Do it vexings way...or do it Gods way? We say do it Gods way. So he, you can attack our worlview, but we cant attack yours? Is that what you are saying?
You only see one side here rosalie.
As i said we believe what God says, and homosexual sex, cross dressing the whole lifestyle is sin.
You think that because we dissagree with you and vexings position that WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE INSECURE IN OUR OWN SEXUALITY.
How about yours? Why should we accept your position and you not accept ours?
Tolerance......goes how many ways?

reply from: Rosalie

Your intolerance, prejudice, ignorance, hatred and bigotry.
I think that's a lot to be ashamed of and it's sad that you don't see it at all.
She is getting attacked left and right for who she is. And she fights back. You are being treated just the way you treat others, yet it's somehow wrong when it's being done for you. But it's okay for you to do that to others.
There is no god. So keep your apocalyptic prophecies. You might be scared of them and you are obviously prepared to do anything to force your religion on other people, but it's no use.
The same way you have treated her. I can't blame her, really. Why should she be nice to you when you are treating her like a piece of trash?
Then again, you treat all people who are different from you in appearance or beliefs like crap. So how can you even wonder that you are getting the same in return?
I see nothing wrong with swearing (it's healthy and at least it's honest), I'm not sure what you mean by using violent language but I imagine it might be something like you and your lot are using when you are targeting her, and I also don't recall any threats - maybe you could point some out for me? But if you do, please quote them in context. Snark doesn't count.
I prefer using the F word and the C word to the bigotry, hatred and intolerance you show on regular basis.
You are confused. Vexer is a female.
Maybe she doesn't. I would actually be glad if she didn't because the way people target her, online and offline, is scary.
How do you know that she is NOT telling the truth? She very well may be. Her knowledge on this subject is clearly extensive, beyond to what people who haven't been through something like this can look up on the internet.
I have addressed it all in this post.
And? I don't care about your religion.
According to your religion. WITHIN your religion. You do not have the right to extend the rules of YOUR religion beyond it.
See above.
If your god is teaching you intolerance, bigotry and hatred then your religion is no different from any other fanatical sect and deserves little respect.
I missed the transgendered section of the Bible, apparently. Funny, I read the whole thing and I really didn't see anything about cross-dressing there.
Considering the way you're talking about homosexuals and transgendered people, you are clearly following hateful and prejudiced religion and you hardly bothered to examine how you really feel - because to you, believing what that religion says is enough.
What position exactly?

reply from: scopia19822

"This is exactly the same mentality that was once held by white people against black people; "If blacks want to drink, they should go to a black bar."
I'm saddened that you cannot fathom that you are advocating that people be treated as second class citizens.
I thought we were beyond that."
Since you were actually half civilized in your response I will give you the same. I am not advocating any such thing, it is just common sense that in a gay bar or other simular type social clubs people of either gender male or female would be more likely to be receptive to a transsexual person.

reply from: Cecilia

I hope that the younger generation coming up will make certain viewpoints extinct.

reply from: scopia19822

No they're not.
Gay men like MEN.
Lesbian women like WOMEN.
Bisexual men and women like MEN or WOMEN.
Homosexual men and women are about as receptive to 'in-betweeners' as straight people are.
In fact, 'straight' men are far more into transexuals than any other group.
I have a friend who manages a server which hosts a porn site. 60% of the traffic on that site is 'shemale' pornography. Speaking to other people who host porn sites, this is a common trend - that 'hetero' males enjoy viewing shemale porn.
Anyway, back to the main point:
Why should a trans person have to hang out in a gay bar? They have as much right to be in an ordinary bar as you do!
Yes trans people do have a right to be in an ordinary bar, but if they are going to be intimant with someone which ever way the wind blows for them they have an obligation to tell that person they are trans. If a person cannot accept that about you why be intimant with them in the 1st place, dont you deserve to be accepted for who and what you are by a parnter. If you have to lie to them about who you are and this transcends all aspects not just gender issues. I am sure there are dating/social networking sites on the internet that cater to transgendered people but since you said you have a steady boyfriend you dont need to look at those now.

reply from: cracrat

Why? To my mind there are only two instances in which a trans person probably should fess up before things get too far along. The first is if they are pre-op, if a fella thinks he's pulled a hot chick then finds a winky in 'her' pants some forewarning of that would probably be a good idea. Second is if a relationship appears to be going somewhere and talk of marriage or kids starts up since the trans partner can't provide as such. One night stands, holiday romances, rebound flings, bits of fun? Absolutely no need to tell the other about your 'condition' unless you really want to.

reply from: Rosalie

Me too.
We will certainly be raising our children that way.

reply from: churchmouse

Rosalie you are the one who is intolerant. You are intolerant of Christians.
He fights back dirty, he always has. You say nothing about his appauling behavior.
Well boy you aren't very tolerant are you?
You prove 100% positive that there is no God and I will change my mind. LOL
Can you do that however? No you cant. You would have to possess all knowledge to do that. Quit playing the poor little victim here. I am not pushing my religion on anyone. In fact you pagans talk more about religion than those that believe in God do here.
Gee who does have a penis?
What a crock. You do care. You come here to make fun of those that are agaisnt abortion, and believe in God. You love to mock. That is why you are here.
Well you do not have a right to force me to believe what you do.
Let me ask you this.......is rape wrong? And if it is then how did you determine that it is?

reply from: Rosalie

How am I intolerant of Christians? Am I in any way trying to forbid you or anyone else from being a Christian?
No, I am only not about to allow you to force your religion on anyone else. That doesn't mean I'm intolerant, that means I insist on my right not to have any religion pushed on me.
You are, once again, completely blinded by your bigotry and hatred. I feel sorry for you.
Why should I? First of all, HER "appaling" behavior is an answer to YOUR apalling behavior, and second of all, you say nothing about the apalling behavior of others towards Vexer. You make excuses for those you agree with.
I am actually very tolerant. I'm just not gonna let you force your religion on me or give into your apocalyptic scenarios. Those don't work on me. I guess that's what's angering you so much.
You assert that there IS a God, therefore the burden on proof would be on you.
I, however, didn't say anything about God not existing. I said that you are trying to scare people into being Christians with your apocalyptic visions and threats and bigotry. That has nothing to do with God's existence or lack thereof.
How am I playing a victim? Provide quotes. Or better, quit lying.
Please provide any of my direct quotes in which I said I was pagan.
Or simply, again, stop lying. You are SUCH a liar, churchmouse ... aren't you ashamed of yourself? Lying is a sin as far as YOUR own religion is concerned.
Not everyone who has a penis is a man. And I guess the term "gender identity" is completely lost on you, right?
I'm sure you would like to think that I do.
Yet another lie.
I don't care that you believe in God. I care when you're trying to force your religion on others, though.
Haha.
And another lie!
When exactly did I try to do that? Provide quotes. Or quit lying.
Are you for real? I thought this bigoted argument died out already. Apparently it didn't - well, should've expected that, as bigotry and fanaticism always last a long time.
Maybe others want to fall for your crock but I won't. I know exactly, once again, what you want to say. So let's make this quick: no, morality is not exclusive to religion, least of all to YOUR religion.
If you really believe that, then you are not very smart but very, very bigoted.

reply from: nancyu

Maybe you should go and look for him.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Maybe you should go and look for him.
Concerned Parent must be looking for him in the Texas floodwaters. I haven't heard anything from CP recently.
I guess posters come, and posters go; but only Yoda stays forever.

reply from: churchmouse

I have not called vexing names, nor have I used profanity in any way shape or form. I have never threatened him either.
But turn the tables here........can we say that about him? NO.
He attacks with a vengeance those that dissagree with his stance. He is here for his cause and war. He is anti-reliigon, anti-God, and continually bashes those with any faith especially Christians. He is pro-abortion and never discusses any topic but tries to make it about him.
I am not trying to force anyone to believe my faith. I am responsible to my God for spreading the Word, not saving anyone. No Christian can do that. if you choose not to believe its your decision.
Not if YOU make a truth statement it isn't. You said, there is no God. So I say prove it. How do you know there is NO GOD?
Even when a person says there is no God, that person violates a basic philosophical principle. He is a person with a finite understanding making an absolute statement about the nature of infinity. It would be like asking how much total knowledge mankind possesses. It is impossible for a person with a finite mind to make an absolute statement that there is no God because to do so one would need to possess total knowledge. Really its philosophically impossible to be an atheist. Atheism is not even a valid philosophy. No finite human being can prove God does not exist because God may very well exist beyond ones comprehension or their experience. The universe is vast and the information that is contained in it is immeasurable.


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