Home - List All Discussions

This is a pro-life forum

Im really just trying to understand

by: Caidenbug

I am not trying to start a fight with this post I really am just trying to understand why people who are not pro-life post in this forum. I came here in hopes to get support in starting to help women and the unborn and instead it seems like those that are pro-choice want to argue about not wanting to lose their rights. And make sarcastic remarks about pro-life.

reply from: CharlesD

That's a standard thing on the internet. Anytime there is a topic like this, some on the other side are going to want to jump in and argue. It's the nature of the beast. But you know what? I'm glad they're here. Having people here who disagree with us provides the opportunity to look at our positions and evaluate what we believe. It's a good opportunity to clarify our positions and learn how to defend them effectively. There are people on here who are good at defending their positions and there are those who are lousy at it. But if nobody on here ever disagreed, then we would never have the chance to really learn how to defend what we believe.

reply from: Caidenbug

That is very true, but I find it a bit discouraging. I have only been a ACTIVE pro-lifer for about a week so Im kinda new to trying to argue my point. When I post something they seem to jump all over me and I get a bit overwhelmed. Sometimes they are very nasty.

reply from: Caidenbug

I guess your right. I just need to get tougher skin, right?

reply from: lukesmom

Then there are those who don't want to learn or clarify their killing position but only want to cause trouble and insult. I guess they are bored and have no life beyond their computer...
Welcome to the board Caidenbug.

reply from: Caidenbug

No I did not. It took me several years to get pregnant. The doctors told me my chances were slim to none. During my years of trying a co-worker got pregnant and aborted. She said that she already has two kids to her ex-husband and only gets everyother weekend alone with her boyfriend as it is. She said there is no way im getting stuck with another child that would take my free time away. Im hoping that even with you being pro-choice you can see how badly that hurt. And all because she wanted to have more alone time with her new boyfriend.

reply from: yoda

Yep, and that's exactly the kind of proaborts we encounter in "real life" as well. I consider this a "boot camp" for prolifers.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

If some of the people on here bother or hurt you, you can put them on ignore. Look in the upper right-hand corner of the forums and you will see a text link saying "my forums". Click on that and scroll to the bottom. There you will see the option to add people to your Ignore list. You can always take them off once you feel stronger
Heck, in my introduction post alone, there are 6 pages that are now blanks to me because they are messages from people I now have on ignore! lol.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Of course not! People should be polite, that's what needs to happen.

reply from: Witness

Don't get discouraged, Caidenbug. Some people are ugly just to be ugly, they shouldn't be, but they are. When you're fighting to save lives, those who want to kill tend to get a little riled. Don't let them get to you. Just keep on speaking up. You'll get there.

reply from: sweet

Yep, and that's exactly the kind of proaborts we encounter in "real life" as well. I consider this a "boot camp" for prolifers.that's a good way to put it.

reply from: sweet

don't be discouraged - keep standing by the truth...evil people will mock/bash/ you - don't let it stop you. ABORTION must be stopped and it will.

reply from: Draiocht

Because you seem to be a bit new to this and didn't deliberately start on gratuitous kidney-shots, I'll tell you about "why" without being deliberately rude. Why do we prochoicers participate on "prolife" boards? For the same reason prolifers not only participate but systematically attempt to "flood" prochoice boards. Well, perhaps not the same reason. ProlifeAmerica is home to the most obnoxious, misogynistic hypocritical terrorists on the internet. A lot of prochoicers browse here but few actually engage because there is no intelligent conversation between the groups. The sexist insults (Faithman calls all prochoice women whores and scanks), hypocrisy when they're returned in kind (It's somehow insulting when a prochoicer responds to threats or intimidating language by giving it right back), but prolifers stage "raids" on prochoice boards all the time and have the nerve to be surprised when they get banned for trolling.
Personally, I would be happy for both sides to mind their own business but I really get tired of prolifers complaining about prochoicers posting on their boards when I have had prolife stalkers literally try to track me down and threaten to rape me to "put me in my place" when I moderated a prochoice board.
When YOUR side stops terrorizing, stalking and threatening, perhaps my side will stop putting the ouchies on you with a few harsh words on your boards. I'd love to switch places with you "prolifers" in regards to harassment, trolling and threats. You people complain over differing opinions and that's pretty f--king mild compared to the "raids" that "prolifers" have conducted on prochoice sites, the harassment that pc (especially females) moderators have dealth with and the threats of sexual violence. Don't complain. Try being a prochoice woman and see what it's like. Try putting out a restraining order against someone because they're threatening you and your family for expressing your beliefs online.
No, Prochoicers aren't the lunatics here.

reply from: jujujellybean

Draiocht, no one is saying us pro lifers are perfect. And there are crazy ones. but there have been times when I can't get into this site because trolls have managed to get it shut down or something.
And have you ever heard someone order a restraining order over someone online? If so, that's crazy. Do you really think most people condone that?

reply from: Draiocht

You certainly never did that, Juju, but I do get very tired of prolifers whining about a few of us prochoicers posting here as though we're threatening them by doing so. Honestly, do you think it's fair for people of either group to demand consideration from the other that they aren't willing to give? I know you would never do this but it does strike a nerve.

reply from: jujujellybean

I agree with you. I have tried to get both sides to calm down, but it doesn't work.
BTW, you didn't answer my question! LOL, sorry, but I am curious about that.

reply from: Draiocht

Juju, you would never do that but I have had it done to me before many times. Honestly, how should I feel when one group that doesn't want the other to speak strikes out at that other group regularly? Would you find it fair if the situation were reversed? You seem like one of the more reasonable ones here (hell, you've been accused of being "pro-abortion" because you weren't rude enough to us). I'm simply stating my personal perspectives and what I'd prefer over what I've been through.
I do not, however, affiliate you or polite prolifers with those freaks.

reply from: Draiocht

Oh bugger, I'm sorry, my internet hiccuped. Allow me to look back at your earlier question and get some coffee. Sorry, Juju...I'll get right back to you.

reply from: lukesmom

Try being an unborn child then you will understand who the real lunatics are.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Some pro-choicers are lunatics, and some of the ones on here are lunatics as well. Any person who approves of killing a child during labor or just before labor is sick in the head, or seriously deluded. Being deluded doesn't make you sick in the head or stupid, but it does mean you're still being fooled. I was being fooled.

reply from: Draiocht

That's very thoughtful, LiberalChiRo. Thank you.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Heh, you're welcome. I think it can apply to both sides. People who think it's ok to sentence a mother to death just to avoid abortion are also either sick or deluded. You can't go too extreme on either side.

reply from: BossMomma

Try being an unborn child then you will understand who the real lunatics are.
Unborn children understand about as much as an egg...nadda damn thing.

reply from: BossMomma

Sounds reasonable to me, why should she be a slave to her children? She takes care of the ones she has but wants time with her boyfriend who may one day become a husband. Just because you have fertility issues doesn't mean that every woman will or should place the same value on pregnancy. I know a few women who wished they were infertile. At 18 I tried to get a tubal but the doctor refused saying that I was too young to make an educated decision. He was right in my case but doctors are wrong just as often.

reply from: scopia1982

Sounds reasonable to me, why should she be a slave to her children? She takes care of the ones she has but wants time with her boyfriend who may one day become a husband. Just because you have fertility issues doesn't mean that every woman will or should place the same value on pregnancy. I know a few women who wished they were infertile. At 18 I tried to get a tubal but the doctor refused saying that I was too young to make an educated decision. He was right in my case but doctors are wrong just as often.
You sound to me like you dont like children and I can understand not all people do. But even those that dont and do get pregnant they adapt and do the best job they can as parents. After the abortion I didnt want any more children, but I adapted and do the best that I can do. Did you ever get that tubal? If you havent maybe you should.

reply from: BossMomma

Sounds reasonable to me, why should she be a slave to her children? She takes care of the ones she has but wants time with her boyfriend who may one day become a husband. Just because you have fertility issues doesn't mean that every woman will or should place the same value on pregnancy. I know a few women who wished they were infertile. At 18 I tried to get a tubal but the doctor refused saying that I was too young to make an educated decision. He was right in my case but doctors are wrong just as often.
You sound to me like you dont like children and I can understand not all people do. But even those that dont and do get pregnant they adapt and do the best job they can as parents. After the abortion I didnt want any more children, but I adapted and do the best that I can do. Did you ever get that tubal? If you havent maybe you should.
LOL If I'd gotten my tubal I wouldn't be pregnant for the third time. I love kids, my own are my life and I sacrifice cheerfully for them. I sacrificed the chance to join the military like I wanted to, go to college, get the career I always wanted and basically live the high life. But that's fine by me, it was my choice. Not every woman has my views. I do however plan on a tubal after this one if I can get over my phobia of surgery.

reply from: lukesmom

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.

reply from: lukesmom

Yup, only a proabort would call it "reasonable" to kill one of her living but unborn children. Giving someone life doesn't make anyone a "slave" to that person. Killing your unborn child does make you a murderer though. Killing one of your children because of your desire to spend time with a boyfriend is one of the most dispical selfish actions ever. Nothing like sacrificing your own child for selfish pleasures...

reply from: BossMomma

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.
My kids are sacred to me, they obviously don't mean anything to you just as yours mean nothing to me, I care for my children, not those of the rest of the world.

reply from: lukesmom

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.
My kids are sacred to me, they obviously don't mean anything to you just as yours mean nothing to me, I care for my children, not those of the rest of the world.
Actually your children DO mean something to me. They ment something before they were even born. That is why I fight for their rights and others like them. I know that is hard for you to understand.

reply from: scopia1982

I care about other peoples children, particularly the abused and neglected ones. I care about the poor , disabled and those who are living in other parts of the world that are persecuted and oppressed. Perhaps I feel its my "Christian" duty and if I didnt do what I could to try and allievate their suffering I couldnt sleep at night.

reply from: BossMomma

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.
My kids are sacred to me, they obviously don't mean anything to you just as yours mean nothing to me, I care for my children, not those of the rest of the world.
Actually your children DO mean something to me. They ment something before they were even born. That is why I fight for their rights and others like them. I know that is hard for you to understand.
You didn't even know they existed before I came here, how could they mean anything to you? My children had and have all the rights they are entitled to. I GAVE them the right to life, no one else. Not any simpering pro-life fanatic holding a sign. I saw to their every need, not you or anyone else outside their family. So do spare me your bovine excrement.

reply from: BossMomma

I care about other peoples children, particularly the abused and neglected ones. I care about the poor , disabled and those who are living in other parts of the world that are persecuted and oppressed. Perhaps I feel its my "Christian" duty and if I didnt do what I could to try and allievate their suffering I couldnt sleep at night.
I feel sorrow for less fortunant children and do report abuse when I know about it. I donate to needy kids and do what I can, but mine come first. I would not take food from my childs mouth to feed another.

reply from: scopia1982

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.
. I GAVE them the right to life, no one else. Not any simpering pro-life fanatic holding a sign. I saw to their every need, not you or anyone else outside their family. So do spare me your bovine excrement.
Im glad my mom didnt think like you. You almost deify yourself . You sound so hard hearted and mean spirited. Im sorry you feel the need to be so. I will pray for you.

reply from: scopia1982

Charity does begin at home, but even though I dont have much, I would share what I had. My child or course would eat but if I knew of a hungary child, I would share what I had even if that meant I missed one meal.

reply from: lukesmom

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.
My kids are sacred to me, they obviously don't mean anything to you just as yours mean nothing to me, I care for my children, not those of the rest of the world.
Actually your children DO mean something to me. They ment something before they were even born. That is why I fight for their rights and others like them. I know that is hard for you to understand.
You didn't even know they existed before I came here, how could they mean anything to you? My children had and have all the rights they are entitled to. I GAVE them the right to life, no one else. Not any simpering pro-life fanatic holding a sign. I saw to their every need, not you or anyone else outside their family. So do spare me your bovine excrement.
See, I told you you wouldn't/couldn't understand. There are lots of children who don't yet exist and I care enough about them to want to care for our environment and for their right to continue life once concevied. I went into nursing to care for people I never met and who weren't yet born. I work in my community on projects that will benefit people who haven't been born. And yes, if I saw your child on a street with a car racing toward him/her, I would try to save them at my risk. Again, I know this is hard for you to understand, but it is the truth. I do my best to help anyone in physical and/or emotional need and it doesn't matter who they are or how old or even if they don't yet exist.

reply from: BossMomma

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.
. I GAVE them the right to life, no one else. Not any simpering pro-life fanatic holding a sign. I saw to their every need, not you or anyone else outside their family. So do spare me your bovine excrement.
Im glad my mom didnt think like you. You almost deify yourself . You sound so hard hearted and mean spirited. Im sorry you feel the need to be so. I will pray for you.
Considering I'm a devout Wiccan feel free to knock yourself out, neither your prayers or your erroneous opinion of me mean anything to me. My children know that they are loved and wanted, they know I am proud of them and that I will give them the best, even if I must go without. If that makes me hard hearted and mean spirited you are woefully ignorant.

reply from: lukesmom

Same here. It is called sharing and if it came down to my eating or a hungry child eating; that child would come first. I have given much away when we couldn't afford to but the amazing thing is, those "riches" have come back doubled when we have been in need. It is sad when greediness outweighs helping another.

reply from: scopia1982

[
.
Considering I'm a devout Wiccan feel free to knock yourself out, neither your prayers or your erroneous opinion of me mean anything to me. My children know that they are loved and wanted, they know I am proud of them and that I will give them the best, even if I must go without. If that makes me hard hearted and mean spirited you are woefully ignorant.
My husband's ex wife is a Wiccan and before he converted to Catholicism was a Druid. Even some Wiccans believe we all orignate from a single source call it God or whatever. If you dont want to hear my opinion or that of any other, than why are you here. When you post on a public forum you are subject to peoples opinions and comments on various issues. If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen. People have said things to me onhere harsh things, but Im on a public forum and have to deal with that. I am not ignorant. And I will pray for you because you obviously need it. If it means nothing to you thats ok, but I believe that all religions are a manifistation of the same source. I call it God your free to call it what u will.

reply from: BossMomma

She thinks her kids are "sacred" and every other child can be killed without a flinch from her. Her's is a sad case really.
My kids are sacred to me, they obviously don't mean anything to you just as yours mean nothing to me, I care for my children, not those of the rest of the world.
Actually your children DO mean something to me. They ment something before they were even born. That is why I fight for their rights and others like them. I know that is hard for you to understand.
You didn't even know they existed before I came here, how could they mean anything to you? My children had and have all the rights they are entitled to. I GAVE them the right to life, no one else. Not any simpering pro-life fanatic holding a sign. I saw to their every need, not you or anyone else outside their family. So do spare me your bovine excrement.
See, I told you you wouldn't/couldn't understand. There are lots of children who don't yet exist and I care enough about them to want to care for our environment and for their right to continue life once concevied. I went into nursing to care for people I never met and who weren't yet born. I work in my community on projects that will benefit people who haven't been born. And yes, if I saw your child on a street with a car racing toward him/her, I would try to save them at my risk. Again, I know this is hard for you to understand, but it is the truth. I do my best to help anyone in physical and/or emotional need and it doesn't matter who they are or how old or even if they don't yet exist.
My child wouldn't be in the street in the first place, supervision comes with that whole child rearing thing. The fact is is that if it were a choice between your child and mine you would logically save your own and leave mine to die. You can feel emotion about an idea but caring for someone goes much further than simple emotion.

reply from: BossMomma

My husband's ex wife is a Wiccan and before he converted to Catholicism was a Druid. Even some Wiccans believe we all orignate from a single source call it God or whatever. If you dont want to hear my opinion or that of any other, than why are you here. When you post on a public forum you are subject to peoples opinions and comments on various issues. If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen. People have said things to me onhere harsh things, but Im on a public forum and have to deal with that. I am not ignorant. And I will pray for you because you obviously need it. If it means nothing to you thats ok, but I believe that all religions are a manifistation of the same source. I call it God your free to call it what u will.
I stated that I didn't care about your opinion of me, I don't mind hearing it as it does not effect me. I no more need your prayers than you need mine, I'm perfectly happy with who I am and will not change for anyone, least of all some meaningless screen name on a message forum.

reply from: scopia1982

Then if you dont care about peoples opinions than why are here? If you have no intention of learning about the other side of the abortion debate, why are here? You dont sound happy with who you are or you wouldnt post such negativity. Im not asking anyone to change , least of all for me. Why dont you to a prochoice forum? feel free to put me on ignore if you dont want to read my post as I intend to do with you because. Im here to debate the prolife side of the issue and your negative BS is starting to stink up the forum. Sadly alot of Wiccans are very self centered people.

reply from: lukesmom

Sigh, I don't know if you really are as silly as you sound but whatever. You make no sense whatsoever. My life revolves around caring for not only my family but countless others as well. It goes far beyond emotion. Now it is time for me to again, stop wasting my time with someone who refuses to remove her blinders.

reply from: BossMomma

Sigh, I don't know if you really are as silly as you sound but whatever. You make no sense whatsoever. My life revolves around caring for not only my family but countless others as well. It goes far beyond emotion. Now it is time for me to again, stop wasting my time with someone who refuses to remove her blinders.
Yes, do stop before logic gives you a nose bleed.

reply from: scopia1982

Sigh, I don't know if you really are as silly as you sound but whatever. You make no sense whatsoever. My life revolves around caring for not only my family but countless others as well. It goes far beyond emotion. Now it is time for me to again, stop wasting my time with someone who refuses to remove her blinders.
Luke, the ignore button is a wonderful feature. The horrid smell on this board is getting worse.

reply from: lukesmom

Nah, she doesn't bother me beyond feeling extreme pity for her. My heart truly aches for someone full of the hate she spews toward others and the ignorance she displays. She is beyond human help and only a higher power can open her eyes and heart to unselfishness and compassion.

reply from: 4given

So are you implying because your heart and mind was not changed by the abortion truth, you are somehow superior to the women who have changed as a result? Because you never "gave" your children over to a bloodied mess and landfill, you are entitled to yet another attack on the active pro-life community, and the women that saw the truth and chose to give life? Many do- despite the challenges ahead far more significant than what you have and been faced with.

reply from: BossMomma

Nah, she doesn't bother me beyond feeling extreme pity for her. My heart truly aches for someone full of the hate she spews toward others and the ignorance she displays. She is beyond human help and only a higher power can open her eyes and heart to unselfishness and compassion.
Oh now you pity me? I thought you kept me around for amusement?

reply from: scopia1982

Nah, she doesn't bother me beyond feeling extreme pity for her. My heart truly aches for someone full of the hate she spews toward others and the ignorance she displays. She is beyond human help and only a higher power can open her eyes and heart to unselfishness and compassion.
I agree completly agree. Never Have I seen anyone on this forum devoid of any compassion. Still I dont want to read anymore of her negative garbage.

reply from: BossMomma

So are you implying because your heart and mind was not changed by the abortion truth, you are somehow superior to the women who have changed as a result? Because you never "gave" your children over to a bloodied mess and landfill, you are entitled to yet another attack on the active pro-life community, and the women that saw the truth and chose to give life? Many do- despite the challenges ahead far more significant than what you have and been faced with.
No, I'm implying that no one but me gave my children the right to life. Pro-lifers thrusting morbid signs at women seeking abortion are in my opinion simpering control freaks who value a fetus over a born, sentient woman.

reply from: lukesmom

Yup, you have gone beyond simple amusement. I do have to apologize. I used you for amusement to help me get past my son's birth and death date. That was not fair to you. Yes, I do actually pity you for your obvious blindness and lack of compassion for anyone but yourself and your own born children. I feel sorry for someone who can't see beyond that. You are missing so much in this life. Maybe that is why you act so hateful and cold.

reply from: scopia1982

Yup, you have gone beyond simple amusement. I do have to apologize. I used you for amusement to help me get past my son's birth and death date. That was not fair to you. Yes, I do actually pity you for your obvious blindness and lack of compassion for anyone but yourself and your own born children. I feel sorry for someone who can't see beyond that. You are missing so much in this life. Maybe that is why you act so hateful and cold.
I wonder if she has any compassion even for her own children.

reply from: BossMomma

Yup, you have gone beyond simple amusement. I do have to apologize. I used you for amusement to help me get past my son's birth and death date. That was not fair to you. Yes, I do actually pity you for your obvious blindness and lack of compassion for anyone but yourself and your own born children. I feel sorry for someone who can't see beyond that. You are missing so much in this life. Maybe that is why you act so hateful and cold.
So you used me as a scapegoat to help you get over the fact that your kid was an anecephalic? Interesting. It appears you need some serious help. I'm not hateful, no one in this world is worth the effort it takes to hate. Nor am I cold, I simply am not an emotion deluded fanatic. I am a common mother who seeks to raise her kids, take care of her business and let other women do the same. I'm sorry your kid was born without a brain, but that's not my fault, don't use me as a diversion from your sorrow.

reply from: BossMomma

Yup, you have gone beyond simple amusement. I do have to apologize. I used you for amusement to help me get past my son's birth and death date. That was not fair to you. Yes, I do actually pity you for your obvious blindness and lack of compassion for anyone but yourself and your own born children. I feel sorry for someone who can't see beyond that. You are missing so much in this life. Maybe that is why you act so hateful and cold.
Wow.
What a nice way to grieve.
I would've thought some praying or meditating would have been a better solution....
No kidding, grieving for a failed pregnancy by following a stranger around and attacking them is just mentally warped, the fact that she pities me is laughable considering that she is nothing but a cowardly snapping dog hiding behind the legs of others, using them to give her insane babbling conviction.

reply from: yoda

Wow, can you feel the love in that post? Hmmm...... no, I can't. Kinda goes along with the "you go to hell" signature, though.

reply from: BossMomma

Wow, can you feel the love in that post? Hmmm...... no, I can't. Kinda goes along with the "you go to hell" signature, though.
Your right, I have no love for LukesMom or any other coward who would exploit me to get over the fact that her fetus was deformed. And my signature speaks my thoughts precisely on religious domination. Any other inane horse crap you'd like to deposit in response to my posts?

reply from: yoda

It's way beyond "having no love"...... it's "FEELING A BURNING HATRED", which you so amply express in your "GO TO HELL" attitude......
How's that?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Pretty good evaluation.

reply from: BossMomma

No, I don't hate anyone, I do reserve the right to get pissed off when I find that someone's been using me to get over their personal tragedy. IMO It takes a good amount of effort to harbor a hatred towards someone, lukesmom is not worth that effort to me. My "you go to hell" attitude stemmed from bible thumpers constantly threatening me with hell fire because I happen to be pagan.

reply from: BossMomma

Pretty good evaluation.
Just as refering to you as a contradictory amature would be a good evaluation. You tell me not to insult you even when I wasn't then turn around and intentionally insult me? Cute.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You struck first; am I not allowed to defend myself?

reply from: BossMomma

No, I did not insult you, I tried to give you some friendly advice as a more experienced debater. You misunderstood the tone by which the advise was given and assumed I was insulting you, then going by your assumption you blatently attack me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You have no idea if you're a more experienced debator, you have no idea how long I've been in this debate. Stop assuming. Whether you meant it nicely or not, I was offended. I'll accept your apology if you actually say you're sorry.

reply from: BossMomma

An experienced debater states their views and stands by them. However, as to my unintended insult I will give the I'm sorry.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No, an experienced debater is someone who has been in the debate a long time. I think it's foolish to stand by a cause even in the face of logical data that contradicts it. And the fact that abortion is an opinion, well, as everyone knows, opinions can change.
Apology accepted.

reply from: BossMomma

Abortion is a fact, it has been proven to occur otherwise we wouldn't all be here arguing about it. Whether it is right or wrong is the opinion being debated. I've been debating abortion for 6 years as a form of recreation and have seen various points of view. My conclusion is that right and wrong are subjective, the vegan feels that meat is murder, I feel that eating meat is normal for humans to do for example. What is right for one maybe wrong for another as I have said over and again hence why I view abortion from a legal standpoint.
The law details our rights, what we can do and what we can't, you can debate it all day but until you change that law things will remain the same.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Murder is a fact, that doesn't make it right. Stealing is a fact. Both of these things will probably always happen. But that doesn't mean we should legalize them to make sure the murderers and thieves are "safe"!

reply from: BossMomma

No, those things are already illegal as they disrupt the lives and rights of persons. The embryo/fetus is not viewed by law as a person with rights under the constitution otherwise Roe v. Wade would never have had the influence to legalize abortion.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

They weren't always illegal.

reply from: nancyu

Liberal I always offer a when I agree with someone that I don't normally agree with. Here you go. Here's hoping we'll have many more together.
(If you don't like beer I can make substitutions.)

reply from: BossMomma

What wasn't? Murder and stealing? When was it ever legal?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Liberal I always offer a when I agree with someone that I don't normally agree with. Here you go. Here's hoping we'll have many more together.
(If you don't like beer I can make substitutions.)
Lol, thanks Nancyu XD

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What wasn't? Murder and stealing? When was it ever legal?
Before laws were made. DUH. It is true that these two are some of the oldest laws, but that doesn't change the fact that they weren't ALWAYS legal.

reply from: BossMomma

What wasn't? Murder and stealing? When was it ever legal?
Before laws were made. DUH. It is true that these two are some of the oldest laws, but that doesn't change the fact that they weren't ALWAYS legal.
Must we go back to the Neanderthal? I am refering to civilized societies, all of which have laws and punishments for murder and theft. Your reaching a bit far now.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Not really. You seemed to imply that the right to abort is different from stealing or murder, and I just proved that even those weren't always legal. Moralities change.

reply from: KaylieBee

What wasn't? Murder and stealing? When was it ever legal?
Before laws were made. DUH. It is true that these two are some of the oldest laws, but that doesn't change the fact that they weren't ALWAYS legal.
If there weren't laws, then it was neither legal nor illegal.

reply from: BossMomma

No, abortion was not always legal. The illigalization of abortion had nothing to do with fetal rights and everything to do with the danger it posed to women in those primitive times. Women were not jailed for aborting, the quacks that performed them were. In the 70's when abortion was legalized medical science had advanced enough to perform abortions in safer ways and so the morality changed. Theft and murder have always been illegal as there is no benefit to society in either action.

reply from: BossMomma

Source?
One moment please.

reply from: BossMomma

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/abortionuslegal/a/abortion.htm

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Even I knew that. Then again, I was a pro-choicer so I'm a bit more familiar with the propoganda.

reply from: BossMomma

What propaganda? The fetus has never had legal rights and abortion is ancient, it's not exactly a recent thing. Women have been excercising their right to choose for centuries.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

The propaganda is that legal elective abortion is justified just because it makes it safe for the mother to kill her child.

reply from: BossMomma

Legal elective abortion is justified by the fact that a woman has a right to decide whether or not she wants to be pregnant. If legal abortion goes away, herbal and other old methods of abortion will replace it. Not as safe as abortion in a medical facility but if that's the way you want it so be it.

reply from: lukesmom

Yup, you have gone beyond simple amusement. I do have to apologize. I used you for amusement to help me get past my son's birth and death date. That was not fair to you. Yes, I do actually pity you for your obvious blindness and lack of compassion for anyone but yourself and your own born children. I feel sorry for someone who can't see beyond that. You are missing so much in this life. Maybe that is why you act so hateful and cold.
So you used me as a scapegoat to help you get over the fact that your kid was an anecephalic? Interesting. It appears you need some serious help. I'm not hateful, no one in this world is worth the effort it takes to hate. Nor am I cold, I simply am not an emotion deluded fanatic. I am a common mother who seeks to raise her kids, take care of her business and let other women do the same. I'm sorry your kid was born without a brain, but that's not my fault, don't use me as a diversion from your sorrow.
LOL! You take on too much. I am way over the fact that my son was anencephalic and I will never "get over" his death. It is just that at 2 dates during the year, my grief intensifies and most likely always will. During those times I become much more reflective and this year, amusing myself here, reading and responding to your "interesting" and quite truthfully nasty posts has had a stimulating effect. I know how little other people's chidren mean to you so please don't assume too much here in thinking Luke's diagnosis was somehow your fault. Also, you have no say in who I use as a diversion. You served the purpose and now are boring and pitiful. Sorry if that "hurts". The truth sometimes does that.
Too bad you can't find emotion for anyone else but yourself and your children. Because you can't you are not a "common mother" or even a "common human" as the rest of us "common mothers" do manage to care for others beyond ourselves. Therefore you to be pitied. BTW, I never followed you around. You have made yourself a HUGE target here with your ignorant remarks and hateful, assuming comments for everyone who doesn't believe as you do.

reply from: lukesmom

Ruff, ruff! Down Spot down!

reply from: lukesmom

Actually my son was born alive at 36 weeks so was a BABY. His name is Lucas Adam. My, for someone who says she isn't hateful, well, I would hate to see what you actually call hateful...

reply from: Hosea

Show some sympathy here. Those who have not lost a child should be a lettle respectful of those who grieve. It is insulting to haere people talk about how a child should have no rights because they live intheir nmothers womb. This is especially true when a baby is born prematurly and if he was still in his mother's womb at the same age you believe he has no rights and could be killed. Some moms would do anything to keep their child alive if they could. Others would do and say anything to make sure other mom's could kill their children.

reply from: lukesmom

Did it ever occur to you that many of us could care less if you are pagan or not and "threaten" you with hell fire because of your cold, angry, hateful attitude reflected in what you post? Typical response of "Everyone else has a problem, there is nothing wrong with me." Give you a clue????

reply from: lukesmom

Liberal I always offer a when I agree with someone that I don't normally agree with. Here you go. Here's hoping we'll have many more together.
(If you don't like beer I can make substitutions.)
I'll second that Lib and buy the next round!!!

reply from: lukesmom

Ruff, ruff! Down Spot down!
LOL - I guess you have to hide your grief behind stupid comments, too....
No, I don't hide my grief. Talk about stupid comments. You have been hanging around bossy too long. You used to sound a lot smarter and could speak for yourself too.

reply from: lukesmom

Since you have never had a child or grieve the loss of a child, you have no idea what you are talking about. BTW, I am not arguing with either of you. Again, you give yourself way too much credit here. I have to be careful because you two are getting amusing again and I told myself it wouldn't be fair to "play" with you both again because you both are to be pitied instead of using you for personal amusement. DARN! It'll be hard but I'll be earning graces for my restraint.

reply from: lukesmom

I can quarentee I am serious about this subject. I do admit to using this site sometimes to wind down from my busy and hectic days and can have an "odd" attitude, I guess. But that's ok. I am very comfortable in my skin and with my beliefs and if this is "odd" so be it.

reply from: 4given

Considering the pile of waste left here.. I would have to disagree.

reply from: lukesmom

Considering the pile of waste left here.. I would have to disagree.
OMG! I just fell off my chair laughing!!!!!

reply from: lukesmom

Only if you don't call me a yippee little dog.

reply from: lukesmom

And you need a sense of humor!

reply from: BossMomma

Did it ever occur to you that many of us could care less if you are pagan or not and "threaten" you with hell fire because of your cold, angry, hateful attitude reflected in what you post? Typical response of "Everyone else has a problem, there is nothing wrong with me." Give you a clue????
Has it ever occured to you that your hell fire creates my so called "cold, angry, hateful attitude?" Maybe if bible thumpers would keep their religion to themselves and others like them there wouldn't be any enmity.

reply from: BossMomma

Yup, you have gone beyond simple amusement. I do have to apologize. I used you for amusement to help me get past my son's birth and death date. That was not fair to you. Yes, I do actually pity you for your obvious blindness and lack of compassion for anyone but yourself and your own born children. I feel sorry for someone who can't see beyond that. You are missing so much in this life. Maybe that is why you act so hateful and cold.
So you used me as a scapegoat to help you get over the fact that your kid was an anecephalic? Interesting. It appears you need some serious help. I'm not hateful, no one in this world is worth the effort it takes to hate. Nor am I cold, I simply am not an emotion deluded fanatic. I am a common mother who seeks to raise her kids, take care of her business and let other women do the same. I'm sorry your kid was born without a brain, but that's not my fault, don't use me as a diversion from your sorrow.
LOL! You take on too much. I am way over the fact that my son was anencephalic and I will never "get over" his death. It is just that at 2 dates during the year, my grief intensifies and most likely always will. During those times I become much more reflective and this year, amusing myself here, reading and responding to your "interesting" and quite truthfully nasty posts has had a stimulating effect. I know how little other people's chidren mean to you so please don't assume too much here in thinking Luke's diagnosis was somehow your fault. Also, you have no say in who I use as a diversion. You served the purpose and now are boring and pitiful. Sorry if that "hurts". The truth sometimes does that.
Too bad you can't find emotion for anyone else but yourself and your children. Because you can't you are not a "common mother" or even a "common human" as the rest of us "common mothers" do manage to care for others beyond ourselves. Therefore you to be pitied. BTW, I never followed you around. You have made yourself a HUGE target here with your ignorant remarks and hateful, assuming comments for everyone who doesn't believe as you do.
Actually I can choose whether or not you use me as a diversion for your failed pregnancy, I can and will ignore you. I'm a common mother, my kids are my priority, no stranger supports them or provides for them, I do as a single mom (single as in unwed) You are a busy body who would rather stick your nose into the uterii of other women instead of worrying about those who came out of your own. You have no logical basis for the ignorant crap you spew and half the time you are attacking behind the legs of someone else which makes you an obsessive coward. If you want to debate with me you'd better do two things, learn to stand on your own two feet and, grow a thicker skin. Until then I condemn you to iggy hell, burn troll burn.

reply from: BossMomma

I did show sympathy where it was due but when she follows me around attacking me just because she had a failed pregnancy my sympathy can be found in the dictionary between shyte and syphilis. And, I do not support elective abortion after the first trimester so why not get to know me before attempting to state my beliefs.

reply from: ProInformed

"When I post something they seem to jump all over me and I get a bit overwhelmed. Sometimes they are very nasty."
They use that tactic because they are hoping it will scare you into shutting up (so they can go on killing babies without interference).
Don't let it bother you. It's just their favorite way to try to censor the truth.
The biased media hides most of the hostility and violence committed by chocists so maybe it sort of shocks you to encounter it online? The liberal media doesn't show it when angry violent pro-abort activists scream, cuss, vandalize, and assualt. IMHO so many people having easy access to the internet has created some public relations problems for the abortion industry LOL. Citizens are finally seeing the luntic fringe pro-aborts that have been hiding behind the more moderate-sounding 'pro-choice' label all along. (There is an old post here somewhere titled Lunatic Fringe that reveals angry/violent pro-abort fanaticism.)

reply from: ProInformed

"Personally, I would be happy for both sides to mind their own business"
Yea I bet you would!
You pro-aborts would just keep right on KILLING thousands of innocent babies per day - your BUSINESS IS the abortion industry after all.

reply from: BossMomma

Tell that to all the Pro-lifers who picket a clinic one day then become a client the next.

reply from: ProInformed

"The sexist insults (Faithman calls all prochoice women whores and scanks)"
It's pretty lame to complain about pro-lifers being 'sexist' when it's no big secret that the pornography industry supports the abortion industry, with donations and also with so many male pimps and nude 'dancer' bar owners dragging their female employees to abortion clinics.
Plus if it weren't for the promiscuous lifestyles of choicists the abortion industry would shrivel up and die real quick like, you know all that 'free sex' (um that the predominantly male porn peddlers and abortionists got rich selling).
When choicists complain about being portrayed as having *****s amongst them... BUT never challenge the *****s amongst them... their complaints are silly, shallow, and hypocritical.

reply from: ProInformed

"When YOUR side stops terrorizing, stalking and threatening, perhaps my side will stop putting the ouchies on you with a few harsh words on your boards"
hmmm.. considering that YOUR side (the abortion industry) will not agree to even a temporary, not even for a day, halt in the KILLING they commit every day, your whining about supposedly being a victim of pro-lifer threats and terrorism is just about the lamest choicist blubbering I've ever read online.
I was a pro-choice activist for almost two decades. As such I was never ONCE subjected to the threats and terrorism you claim pro-lifers have attacked you with.
But it only took a few months of me being pro-life before the choicists starting making threats against me and my children.
IMHO you are lying (not surprising since the abortion industry defends lying to women in order to sell more abortions).
Also, the vast majority of pro-lifers do criticize the very few who employ violent tactics in their efforts to protect innocent babies from the fatal violence committed by your side.
BESIDES the fatal violence committed by and defended by choicists every single day inside abortuaries, LOTS of chocist activists routinely employ hostile, violent, and illegal tactics in their efforts to protect 'free sex' and 'abortion rights'. Practically every time pro-lifers try to exercise their right to free speech choicists show up to shout obscentities and threats, tear up the signs, and physically assault the pro-lifers. AND unlike the pro-life movement, your side never criticizes those among you who commit such deeds.
So stop whining about the rare incidents of pro-lifers doing such things when your side is so obviously comfortable with choicists doing it even more (plus brutally killing babies too).

reply from: ProInformed

Can you post the link to any 'pro-choice' message boards where pro-lifers are allowed to post minus censorship and minus being harrassed by 'pro-choicers'?

reply from: ProInformed

"No, I'm implying that no one but me gave my children the right to life."
So you do not agree with the founders of the women's rights movement on this?
They thought it was despicable for some women to view their babies as mere property that they could kill if they wanted to, BECAUSE instead of that being a rejection of the oppression women had been subjected to (males viewing women as mere property) it was emulation of that same sort of oppression.
"Pro-lifers thrusting morbid signs at women seeking abortion"
Yes they are indeed morbid and gruesome BECAUSE abortion IS a morbid and gruesome thing to do to an innocent baby.
"are in my opinion simpering control freaks who value a fetus over a born, sentient woman."
Well IMHO your opinion is pretty outdated considering that even Susan B. Anthony got it so long ago that women's rights was not about women vs their own babies.
(Perhaps you should stop chanting the women vs babies sloganized mentality, which benefits the abortion industry while hurting BOTH women and babies, long enough to learn about real feminism, eh?)
Also, since it is very unlikely that a sentient woman will be able to avoid learning the truth about what an abortion did to her baby for the remainder of her life, then it is actually much kinder to show the woman the truth before it's too late, before she goes inside the abortion clinic and is sold a bunch of lies in order to get her to buy what they are selling (abortion). Pro-aborts don't care about the woman once she's bought the abortion. When women do learn the truth (too late) the same pro-aborts who pretended they were pro-woman cruelly harrass those women because they don't want those women to warn other women, don't want 'abortion rights' (and abortion profits) to be endangered.
AND the way pro-aborts threaten, make fun of, and attack the women who trusted the abortion industry, only to learn the truth too late, CLEARLY reveals that pro-aborts do not care about women and are not really opposed to the use of hostility and terrorism.
You're not fooling anyone here.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Liberal I always offer a when I agree with someone that I don't normally agree with. Here you go. Here's hoping we'll have many more together.
(If you don't like beer I can make substitutions.)
I'll second that Lib and buy the next round!!!
woo hoo! We'll be drunk in no time!

reply from: ProInformed

"No worries, all I do is play on this website!"
So much for the pretense that 'pro-choicers' are supposedly all compassionate...
Thousands of innocent babies will be killed by abortionists today, and tomorrow, and the day after that...
and you think it's all fun and games.
For decades the biased media helped the abortion industry pretend that all 'pro-choicers' are reasonable, moderate, compassionate, responsible, blah-blah-blah.
The internet is helping pro-lifers expose the truth: that most defenders of abortion are immature, cruel, irresponsible, and MAKE FUN OF the killing of innocent babies.
You do know what they call it when somebody thinks killing is funny don't you?
sociopathy

reply from: ProInformed

"And, I do not support elective abortion after the first trimester"
What are you doing to change the laws so that babies cannot be killed by elective abortion after the first trimester?
Have you contacted any 'pro-choice' groups or 'pro-choice' elected officials to challenge their defense of late-term elective abortions?
Do you give money to any 'pro-choice' groups that do and defend late-term abortions?
Provide a link to 'pro-choice' message boards where you have posted messages in opposition to late-term elective abortions.

reply from: ProInformed

Tell that to all the Pro-lifers who picket a clinic one day then become a client the next.
Do you work at a clinic?
Or are you repeating something you've been told?
(Or just making it up?)
Provide proof.
You've implied there were pro-lifer(S - plural) that have picketed outside a clinic one day and gone insde the clinic for an abortion the next. Which specific pro-lifers are you claiming did this? Surely you don't expect anyone to just believe you? LOL
Now back to this:
"Personally, I would be happy for both sides to mind their own business"
That is typically what those who commit a dirty deed say.
If your business is selling abortions then of course you want pro-lifers to mind their own business, and posting at a pro-life site in an attempt to try to get pro-lifers to hush up and 'mind their own business' is good for your business.
BTW, are you anti-democracy?
Would you be opposed to giving the citizens the right to choose the exact legal status of abortion by referendum vote, you know, democracy?
And are you pro: let those who want to commit violent acts do whatever they want
to their victims while the rest of us 'mind our own business', in general?

reply from: ProInformed

Can you post the link to any 'pro-choice' message boards where pro-lifers are allowed to post minus censorship and minus being harrassed by 'pro-choicers'?
Also, can any of the choicists here post a link to ANY 'pro-choice' site that condemns the way so many of their fellow 'pro-choicers' harrass and attack pro-lifers and pro-life pregnancy centers?
LOTS of pro-life individuals, leaders, groups, and politicians have spoken up against the rare use of violent tactics by pro-lifers.
Have ANY 'pro-choicers' confronted or chastised the 'pro-choicers' who use violent tactics?
Until that happens 'pro-choicers' have no right to complain IMHO.
Besides, it is the choicists who commit thousands of acts of fatal violence per day against the most innocent humans.

reply from: BossMomma

Who the hell are you talking to?

reply from: BossMomma

I don't give money to either side, the money I make goes to support my two born kids and, to the prenatal care I'm getting for my third, plus bills, groceries, rent, vet bills etc. I'm a McCain/Palin supporter. I have posted right here where I oppose elective late term abortion and who the hell are you to even make demands.

reply from: BossMomma

Tell that to all the Pro-lifers who picket a clinic one day then become a client the next.
Do you work at a clinic?
Or are you repeating something you've been told?
(Or just making it up?)
Provide proof.
You've implied there were pro-lifer(S - plural) that have picketed outside a clinic one day and gone insde the clinic for an abortion the next. Which specific pro-lifers are you claiming did this? Surely you don't expect anyone to just believe you? LOL
Now back to this:
"Personally, I would be happy for both sides to mind their own business"
That is typically what those who commit a dirty deed say.
If your business is selling abortions then of course you want pro-lifers to mind their own business, and posting at a pro-life site in an attempt to try to get pro-lifers to hush up and 'mind their own business' is good for your business.
BTW, are you anti-democracy?
Would you be opposed to giving the citizens the right to choose the exact legal status of abortion by referendum vote, you know, democracy?
And are you pro: let those who want to commit violent acts do whatever they want
to their victims while the rest of us 'mind our own business', in general?
I work in a prison where people are confined for committing truly violent acts. I am pro-democracy. There is a pro-life poster right here who has aborted 3 times.

reply from: ProInformed

Tell that to all the Pro-lifers who picket a clinic one day then become a client the next.
Do you work at a clinic?
Or are you repeating something you've been told?
(Or just making it up?)
Provide proof.
You've implied there were pro-lifer(S - plural) that have picketed outside a clinic one day and gone insde the clinic for an abortion the next. Which specific pro-lifers are you claiming did this? Surely you don't expect anyone to just believe you? LOL
There is a pro-life poster right here who has aborted 3 times.
Your claim was that pro-lifers supposedly picketed outside a clinic one day and then went inside the clinic to have an abortion the next day.
In the 80's the fastest growing sector of the pro-life movement was women who had submitted to abortion, had trusted the abortion industry lies only to learn the truth too late. I know LOTS of pro-life women who had abortions in their past, including myself and many female relatives. None of us picketed outside an abortion clinic the day before. Responding that there is a pro-life poster here who has had abortions has nothing to do with what you claimed and what I challenged you to provide proof for. (Unless you are you claming that SHE was picketing outside a clinic the day before she had each of her abortions?)
Provide proof for your claim or admit you're just lying.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I somehow lost this post in all the drama.
A woman can decide to not be pregnant by not having unprotected sex. Once she creates a human life, that elective choice is gone. I have the right to shoot a gun - but not INTO other innocent people.
If we change hearts and minds, women won't be aborting period. Yes, it's always going to happen here and there, just like murder and stealing happens. But just because it happens doesn't make it right.

reply from: BossMomma

I somehow lost this post in all the drama.
A woman can decide to not be pregnant by not having unprotected sex. Once she creates a human life, that elective choice is gone. I have the right to shoot a gun - but not INTO other innocent people.
If we change hearts and minds, women won't be aborting period. Yes, it's always going to happen here and there, just like murder and stealing happens. But just because it happens doesn't make it right.
I used two forms of protection and still got pregnant, my OB/GYN has no idea how I got pregnant using the Depo shot and my boyfriend using a condom. Obviously hormonal contraceptives can fail and condoms break as it was in my case. I chose to gestate, my choice to elect for abortion remained whether you like it or not.

reply from: scopia1982

Actually my son was born alive at 36 weeks so was a BABY. His name is Lucas Adam. My, for someone who says she isn't hateful, well, I would hate to see what you actually call hateful...
Lukesmom my daughters name was Sabrina Elizabeth. She was taken from me at the start of the 5th month and was forming normally. Had I known that my son was deformed and not going to make it I still would have carried him to term and gave him the dignty of a Christian burial. My daughter was taken by an act of violence and she was thrown into the garbage. More than just the loss of her, that infuriates me more than anything. I am sorry for your loss. How old would Luke have been had he lived?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I somehow lost this post in all the drama.
A woman can decide to not be pregnant by not having unprotected sex. Once she creates a human life, that elective choice is gone. I have the right to shoot a gun - but not INTO other innocent people.
If we change hearts and minds, women won't be aborting period. Yes, it's always going to happen here and there, just like murder and stealing happens. But just because it happens doesn't make it right.
I used two forms of protection and still got pregnant, my OB/GYN has no idea how I got pregnant using the Depo shot and my boyfriend using a condom. Obviously hormonal contraceptives can fail and condoms break as it was in my case. I chose to gestate, my choice to elect for abortion remained whether you like it or not.
It happens, but that doesn't give you the right to kill it. No matter how accidental it was. I'm grateful you chose to keep the child, and my goal in life at this point right now is to help other women CHOOSE life.

reply from: ProInformed

I somehow lost this post in all the drama.
A woman can decide to not be pregnant by not having unprotected sex. Once she creates a human life, that elective choice is gone. I have the right to shoot a gun - but not INTO other innocent people.
If we change hearts and minds, women won't be aborting period. Yes, it's always going to happen here and there, just like murder and stealing happens. But just because it happens doesn't make it right.
I agree and would like to add that at least when abortion was illegal people realized it was dangerous and didn't put as much (anti-choice) pressure on women to abort, and fewer women would agree to submit to abortion. And since the abortion industry opposes any and all attempts to pass the regulations that might make legal abortions safer than illegal abortions, the 'safety' of legalized abortion isn't a factor anyway. In fact, falsely assuring trusting women that legalizing abortion made it safer resulted in more women being maimed and killed by abortionists.
No matter how abortions are done they are dangerous for both the mother and baby. Induced abortion is violent, dangerous, and unnatural. Legal abortions clinics (IF pro-aborts really cared about women enough to allow the needed safety regulations and patient protection rights to be passed) can only do so much towards making abortions somewhat safer. Unfortunately there will always be some women who will want to abort, just like there are those who use dangerous drugs, having eating disorders, and have unsafe sex. Providing a clinic for those inherently dangerous and unhealthy activities to take place can't render them 'safe'. People who smoke crack, or binge and purge, would still be endangering their health and lives even if they did so in clinics set up for those specific purposes.

reply from: lukesmom

He would have turned 5 at the beginning of August and would have started kindergarten this fall. The first day of school was sad. It has been a long time since we have gone through a "first". I am sorry for your loss of Sabrina. How old would she be now? I know heaven is a happy place filled with our children's laughter.

reply from: scopia1982

"He would have turned 5 at the beginning of August and would have started kindergarten this fall. The first day of school was sad. It has been a long time since we have gone through a "first". I am sorry for your loss of Sabrina. How old would she be now? I know heaven is a happy place filled with our children's laughter."
My son is 5 and just started Kindergarten. Sabrina would have been 7 and going into 2nd grade.

reply from: lukesmom

Bossy, I did not have a failed pregnancy. My pregnancy was just fine. It was my child who had the problem.
I have said before and will say again. I do not and never have "followed you around". You have made yourself a huge target with your hateful attitude and nastiness. Getting to know someone so shallow isn't worth the effort.

reply from: lukesmom

LOL! Ignore to your little killing, cold heart's content. For clarification: this is a prolife forum, I am prolife, you are a proabort. That makes you the troll here. Try to remember that.

reply from: lukesmom

Hey, I have an idea on how you got pregnant! It is called intercourse. If your OB/GYN doesn't know that, I would recommend getting another doctor.

reply from: scopia1982

"Hey, I have an idea on how you got pregnant! It is called intercourse. If your OB/GYN doesn't know that, I would recommend getting another doctor."
No method of BC is full proof. Only not doing it is 100% effective. If you are not prepared for the possiblity of a pregnancy no matter how remote the chance you do not need to be having sex.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I was prepared for pregnancy (sort of) but my plan in case it happened was the wrong one (abortion after several weeks of absolute terror and self-loathing). I actually didn't handle the few pregnancy scares I had in a mature way at all. I ignored them. If I'd actually been pregnant at the one time, I would have been 4 months in before knowing, although I probably would have realised it before that lol...
On that note, maybe I wasn't ready for sex since I did not handle the possibility of pregnancy in a very responsible way. I should at least have had a pregnancy test around the house/dorm. I definitely don't regret having sex! But I definitely wasn't as prepared as I thought I was. I was ready to have sex. I wasn't ready to be pregnant or have a baby or abort or do any of those things. So it's hard, because I think sexual maturity evolves before emotional maturity does.

reply from: scopia1982

It would be nice if the emotional maturity came first. Sex is a very adult act and can have strong emotional ramifications for even the most mature adult. I just done think teenagers are emotionally ready to handle the serious responsibilties that go along with it. I say that because teens are still growing and maturing.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Well I definitely wasn't a teen; I was 20 and a sophomore in college.

reply from: scopia1982

I was 13 when I lost my virginity and I defiantly did not have a clue about anything or the consequences. Even adults can be ill prepared, but 20 is still young.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah that's way, way too young.

reply from: BossMomma

I somehow lost this post in all the drama.
A woman can decide to not be pregnant by not having unprotected sex. Once she creates a human life, that elective choice is gone. I have the right to shoot a gun - but not INTO other innocent people.
If we change hearts and minds, women won't be aborting period. Yes, it's always going to happen here and there, just like murder and stealing happens. But just because it happens doesn't make it right.
I used two forms of protection and still got pregnant, my OB/GYN has no idea how I got pregnant using the Depo shot and my boyfriend using a condom. Obviously hormonal contraceptives can fail and condoms break as it was in my case. I chose to gestate, my choice to elect for abortion remained whether you like it or not.
It happens, but that doesn't give you the right to kill it. No matter how accidental it was. I'm grateful you chose to keep the child, and my goal in life at this point right now is to help other women CHOOSE life.
I had every right to choose not to gestate, the life of the fetus does not trump my own, I simply form emotional attachment to my pregnancies very early on.
By the way, I had my ultrasound today after several rescheduals due to Ike and the pictures revealed quite a shock, my fraternal twins now named Isabelle Rose and Aiden Sean are doing well but now I'm terrified that I'll need a c-section to deliver them. My OB/GYN doesn't feel it's wise to try delivering vaginally but I have a severe phobia of surgery.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Does using birth control GIVE you rights? No, the government gives you rights. Or wait, does it? Where DO your "rights" come from?

reply from: BossMomma

Ding bat, I'm quite prepared for a pregnancy, I'm having twins in January. And I know intercourse causes pregnancy but my BC had never failed before. Now if your quite done being a hateful, judgemental whiney ass we can get back to the show.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Scopia didn't say the first section of quoted material, Lukesmom did. At least direct your anger in the right direction. Scopia's addition was quite polite. Also, Scopia's comment was to women in general, not just you. But you're "just being frank", right? That's your excuse for insults. And don't even try to tell me "dingbat" is a friendly term you use with your sister every day. "Hey dingbat!"

reply from: BossMomma

I'm an herbalist, I know how to abort whether the law permits or not, I simply choose to forgo that choice. I give myself the right to control what happens in my body.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You give yourself the right to murder someone as well. But the evil law "forces" the ethics of the majority upon you.

reply from: lukesmom

I'm an herbalist, I know how to abort whether the law permits or not, I simply choose to forgo that choice. I give myself the right to control what happens in my body.
And you give yourself the right to control your little "blobs" Isabelle Rose and Aiden Sean's right to continue to live.

reply from: BossMomma

No, ding bat was an insult directed at the individual (note that I didn't use names) who made the snide remarks towards me. Now if your quite done playing referee? Odd how people can be as rude as they like to me but the minute I respond in kind you are in my ass like a bad case of hemorrhoids. I also find it strange how you don't check anyone else who is rude, such as GodsLaw when he was trashing Carol, but you were right there on my backside when I got into it with her. Why don't you try calling a fair game since you seem to want to play ref.

reply from: scopia1982

She's a cold hearted person that views her children inutero as mere property to be disposed of. I hope she doesn't view her born children that way.

reply from: lukesmom

Tsk, tsk. More of that hateful attitide. Nasty words show a nasty mind.

reply from: BossMomma

The fetus is not a person therefore it is not murder, even when abortion was illegal it was not murder, it was malpractice.

reply from: Caidenbug

How is a fetus not a person?

reply from: lukesmom

The fetus is not a person therefore it is not murder, even when abortion was illegal it was not murder, it was malpractice.
Why do you name your unborn nonpersons?

reply from: BossMomma

She's a cold hearted person that views her children inutero as mere property to be disposed of. I hope she doesn't view her born children that way.
And you are a liar. You don't know a damn thing about me, my kids or how I view them. The twins in my womb already have names and are as loved as my born kids. Try judging someone truthfully for a change instead of basing your opinion soley on their stance in abortion.

reply from: scopia1982

Tsk, tsk. More of that hateful attitide. Nasty words show a nasty mind.
BM is having twins? I will pray that those babies are allowed to make it term safely. After all they are disposable body parts to her to do with as she pleases.

reply from: BossMomma

I'm an herbalist, I know how to abort whether the law permits or not, I simply choose to forgo that choice. I give myself the right to control what happens in my body.
Some things are beyond your ability to control, like pregnancy. You said yourself that you used two types of BC and still got pregnant. Killing the child doesn't allow you to "control" whether you conceive, it is just ending "the problem" (which is actually your child, not the pregnancy) by killing it. So, you basically reserve the right to kill your children in order avoid natural functions over which you actually have no absolute control.
Can you "control" whether you become ill? No? You mean you can't control whether you get the flu, even though it "happens inside your body?" You can take precautions though, right? And if your kid has the flu, you might conceivably kill the kid to avoid catching it, right? Thereby exercising the "right" you give yourself to "control what happens in your body."
You might also castrate your husband in order to exert additional control over whether you conceive.... The sky's the limit if you put your wants above others.
Castration was tempting when I saw the twins lol, I told my boyfriend he better wear a cup to the delivery room. I realize that somethings are beyond my control, but pregnancy is not one of them.

reply from: lukesmom

She's a cold hearted person that views her children inutero as mere property to be disposed of. I hope she doesn't view her born children that way.
And you are a liar. You don't know a damn thing about me, my kids or how I view them. The twins in my womb already have names and are as loved as my born kids. Try judging someone truthfully for a change instead of basing your opinion soley on their stance in abortion.
Your twins are named and loved as much as your born children, yet are nonpersons and therefore can be legally killed without ramifications? You are contradicting yourself.

reply from: BossMomma

It doesn't fit the legal definition of a person and it has no legal rights under the constitution.

reply from: lukesmom

If they aren't "persons" yet, why name them? What are they?
She has now been asked that question 3 times and hasn't answered. Evading?

reply from: scopia1982

lukesmom, I agree with you. BM's wishy washy attitude is typical of proaborts, they are babies if they are wanted and disposable waste if they are not. How sad.

reply from: BossMomma

If they aren't "persons" yet, why name them? What are they?
Emotionally, not legally they are my children. I cannot tell another woman how to view her pregnancy. I bestow upon my children the right to be born, as long as abortion is legal it is a choice, as is giving birth. I choose to give birth, MY unborn children are precious to me, obviously not all women see their pregnancies the same way.

reply from: Caidenbug

I looked up legal definition of a person and the "fetus" seems to fit. A fetus (child) is a person. People just want to think if them as not being a person to justify killing them.

reply from: BossMomma

I'm an herbalist, I know how to abort whether the law permits or not, I simply choose to forgo that choice. I give myself the right to control what happens in my body.
Some things are beyond your ability to control, like pregnancy. You said yourself that you used two types of BC and still got pregnant. Killing the child doesn't allow you to "control" whether you conceive, it is just ending "the problem" (which is actually your child, not the pregnancy) by killing it. So, you basically reserve the right to kill your children in order avoid natural functions over which you actually have no absolute control.
Can you "control" whether you become ill? No? You mean you can't control whether you get the flu, even though it "happens inside your body?" You can take precautions though, right? And if your kid has the flu, you might conceivably kill the kid to avoid catching it, right? Thereby exercising the "right" you give yourself to "control what happens in your body."
You might also castrate your husband in order to exert additional control over whether you conceive.... The sky's the limit if you put your wants above others.
Castration was tempting when I saw the twins lol, I told my boyfriend he better wear a cup to the delivery room. I realize that somethings are beyond my control, but pregnancy is not one of them.
So, you intended to conceive your twins?
No, but I do intend to allow them to come to full term delivery. I don't have to but I want to.

reply from: Caidenbug

Women want to fight for their rights but don't you think the children would like to at least have the right to live?

reply from: scopia1982

""All human beings "fit" legal definitions for "person." We already went through this once, but you apparently learned nothing. The legal term for a human being is "natural person." It does not exclude unborn human beings...
It is true that the unborn have been denied constitutional protection, but the same was once true of Negroes. Were they not "persons" until the 14th amendment was ratified?"
CP I guess had she been alive before the civil war she would say blacks were not persons. Hitler thought the Jews, Gypsies, disabled and mentally disabled were not persons. It the exact type of thinking and all we have to do is look at the Holocaust to see exactly where this type of thinking leads too.

reply from: BossMomma

It doesn't fit the legal definition of a person and it has no legal rights under the constitution.
All human beings "fit" legal definitions for "person." We already went through this once, but you apparently learned nothing. The legal term for a human being is "natural person." It does not exclude unborn human beings...
It is true that the unborn have been denied constitutional protection, but the same was once true of Negroes. Were they not "persons" until the 14th amendment was ratified?
That is true and if the fetus is ever added to that ammendment then it will be a person with rights. However, considering that 80% of pregnancies miscarry, there will be an awful lot of paperwork for the state to handle.

reply from: Caidenbug

Not that long ago women didn't have that many rights, but they sure as hell fought for them. So whats wrong with giving a child the chance to live? If you are not able to be a parent place the child for adoption but don't kill it.

reply from: BossMomma

A fetus does not have the capacity to like anything, considering that most are aborted by 8 weeks there is hardly any brain present. It's like a carrot protesting it's right not to be eaten.

reply from: Caidenbug

You say hardly any brain, but it does have some. Carrots don't have any brain. In case you didn't know. A Carrot also doesn't have a heart.

reply from: BossMomma

If they aren't "persons" yet, why name them? What are they?
Emotionally, not legally they are my children. I cannot tell another woman how to view her pregnancy. I bestow upon my children the right to be born, as long as abortion is legal it is a choice, as is giving birth. I choose to give birth, MY unborn children are precious to me, obviously not all women see their pregnancies the same way.
It is the child that is the issue, not the pregnancy. It doesn't matter how you see your pregnancy, and it shouldn't matter how you see your child. Are you really telling me that the mother may decide whether her child is or is not a "person?" Why does how she "sees" her child no longer matter after birth in so far as determining whether she will be allowed to kill it?
Explain to me how any innocent child, born or unborn, can be a child "emotionally" but not "legally?" Your emotional attachment makes your child a "person?" What if the father is "emotionally attached" to the child? Would it be a "person" then?
I'm not saying that the fetus is not a child, a child is an unborn or recently born human being. However it is a human being without rights under the law therefore how the mother feels about it is key to determining whether it will live or not. The father has no say because he is not gestating and giving of himself to provide life support for the fetus, ultimately it is the mother who gives it rights or not. And the fetus is the pregnancy, if no fetus/embryo/zygote/fertilized egg is present, there is no pregnancy.

reply from: BossMomma

No, but I do intend to allow them to come to full term delivery. I don't have to but I want to.
Then you admit you can't control pregnancy, only abortion?
Correct, I already admitted that some things are beyond my control, abortion is not one of them.

reply from: Caidenbug

Yes I believe you did say that a fetus is not a child.

reply from: BossMomma

It doesn't fit the legal definition of a person and it has no legal rights under the constitution.
All human beings "fit" legal definitions for "person." We already went through this once, but you apparently learned nothing. The legal term for a human being is "natural person." It does not exclude unborn human beings...
It is true that the unborn have been denied constitutional protection, but the same was once true of Negroes. Were they not "persons" until the 14th amendment was ratified?
That is true and if the fetus is ever added to that ammendment then it will be a person with rights. However, considering that 80% of pregnancies miscarry, there will be an awful lot of paperwork for the state to handle.
Exactly. Right now, the unborn are persaons without rights. A constitutional amendment could make them persons with rights. Arguing that they are not persons because they don't currently enjoy constitutional protection is a poor attempt at a semantic dodge.
What was the point behind the rest of your response? Do you intend to argue that avoiding potential paperwork is a valid justification for allowing mothers to kill their offspring? There's no real government paperwork involved with miscarriages now is there? Why would that have to change if abortion were no longer allowed?
No, the last part of my post was just a bit of wry humor. If fetii were given rights as persons a death certificate would be required for every miscarriage, not to mention a social security number for each pregnancy and, maybe even a certificate of conception, after all born babies get birth certificates.

reply from: BossMomma

A fetus does not have the capacity to like anything, considering that most are aborted by 8 weeks there is hardly any brain present. It's like a carrot protesting it's right not to be eaten.
Notorious ethicists make the same argument regarding born children, right? Ever hear a newborn demand its right to live?
I'm not an ethicist, newborns have legal rights in the US though in some countries sex based infanticide is very common. In India usually only one daughter is permitted to live, any girl after that is frequently refered to as "the daughter born for the burial pit."

reply from: BossMomma

I believe you are lying, I said it's not a person.

reply from: Caidenbug

A child is a person! If you think a child is not a person then do you also think its ok to kill a 3 year old child!!! Fetus, child, person, adult all the same!!!!!! They all have the right to live

reply from: Cecilia

I only have comment for your signature: "I have waited so long for him and during my wait I saw countless toss theirs away like it was no big deal."
I am assuming you mean this in regards to abortion and have to ask, did you attend abortions? Did you see other "toss" away their pregnancies like it was "no big deal"? Did you talk to these nameless "others"?
Do you believe that your wait means others should be forced to remain pregnant?
Are you aware of the inner struggle that many, if not all, women go through when deciding the course of their pregnancies? Have you purchased stock in the idea that women who choose abortion do so with as little thought as what to have for dinner?

reply from: Caidenbug

I work with someone who had an abortion cause she said i already have two kids with my ex and dont get to spend much time alone with my new boyfriend. Im not going to have another kid cause then i wont have any time alone with him. She didnt even try to prevent the pregnancy from happening. and anyone having an abortion is just tossing their child away.

reply from: Caidenbug

as soon as she read the test she said im not keeping it. So you tell me, did she think harder on what she was going to have for dinner then on keeping her baby?

reply from: BossMomma

You did say an unborn child is not a "person," however, and every child is a "person," right?
So, basically, abortion is legal? And the law gives the mother sole authority over the fate of the child? Thanks for clearing that up for us...
You seem to have a tendency to evade moral questions by citing law. We all know the law, BM. We are questioning the morality of the law. I'm sure you understand that, but circling back to legality gets you out of a tough spot sometimes, doesn't it?
Look me in the eye and tell me your SO is not "giving of himself" for you and your child...Anyway, you implied that your emotional attachment made the child a "person." I just asked if the father's emotions might have the same effect, not whether the father had authority over the child's fate...
Without the child, there can be no pregnancy, but there can certainly be a child without a pregnancy. No, the child is not the pregnancy. Pregnancy is a condition. The child is, for the first 9 months, an integral part of the pregnancy (the condition), but is certainly not the condition, being rather the second active participant in the situation described as "pregnancy." You like these little semantic games, eh?
And you gave your twins "rights?" Among them being the right to live, to be born, to not be killed? So you no longer have the option to abort?
Actually I hate your semantic games and prefer to speak plainly. An unborn child is a child without the rights of a person, no not all children are persons. Without the unborn there can be no pregnancy thus the unborn child is the pregnancy.
I can look you in the eye and tell you that your part in creating a child was done when you pulled your penis out of the vagina, after that it's up to the woman. You don't go through the morning sickness, the weight gain, the hormones or, any risk of complication. The only part you play is the donation of your sperm until the birth of the child.
And yes I gave my twins the right to live without my interference in their developement, I never considered abortion an option for myself. Any baby that finds it's way into my womb will be born unless nature intervenes.

reply from: BossMomma

Very good. So now we don't have to discuss the usual rhetoric any more? You won't claim to have a "right to control" things you have no control over? You admit that you can only really "control" whether or not you kill your offspring intentionally?
Right, I can choose whether or not to remain pregnant.

reply from: BossMomma

A fetus does not have the capacity to like anything, considering that most are aborted by 8 weeks there is hardly any brain present. It's like a carrot protesting it's right not to be eaten.
Notorious ethicists make the same argument regarding born children, right? Ever hear a newborn demand its right to live?
I'm not an ethicist, newborns have legal rights in the US though in some countries sex based infanticide is very common. In India usually only one daughter is permitted to live, any girl after that is frequently refered to as "the daughter born for the burial pit."
Whenever you make a statement regarding your own morals, and someone questions the statement, you inevitably rush to hide behind the law...Why is that, exactly? Once more, we all know the law. You implied that the child's lack of "consciousness" somehow justified killing it, did you not? Is that the law, or your moral position? I don't remember a law saying anything about children who are as aware as carrots...
Because the law is the one thing that can't be denied. Laws are voted into being by the people, clearly in abortion the majority have spoken.

reply from: Caidenbug

Hate to tell you this but that child also belongs to the father since he helped make it. The only time he doesnt is if you got the sperm at a sperm bank.

reply from: BossMomma

Clearly she had made up her mind before hand.

reply from: BossMomma

Why would any of that be necessary when the only thing that would have changed is that women would no longer be allowed to deliberately kill their offspring? No certificates, SS #s, or any of that are issued prior to birth now, and that doesn't seem to be causing any problems, does it? Still births are the result of miscarriages, right? Don't they issue certificates of still birth in those cases, which would essentially "certify" both birth and death? Once more, why would the fact that mothers are no longer allowed to kill their offspring change anything in that area?
Well, all US persons are documented, if the fetus became a person why wouldn't they be documented as well?

reply from: Caidenbug

If she made up her mind before hand she would have used some kind of protection pills condom whatever but she didnt! So she was really just asking to become pregnant

reply from: BossMomma

Well hey, when he gestates he can decide.

reply from: BossMomma

I believe you are lying, I said it's not a person.
Aren't children "persons?"
Born children are persons.

reply from: BossMomma

I used two forms of protection and still got pregnant, what's your point?

reply from: Caidenbug

you sound like a very selfish person. THis is a child that both created and you are saying that only you have the right to say what happens to the child

reply from: Caidenbug

My piont is if she didnt want the child she should have at least tried not to conceive!!

reply from: BossMomma

You sound very naive and biased because of your fertility issues. Yes I am saying that I am the only person who can decide whether or not I stay pregnant. A man knocking me up does not give him any right of say over my body.

reply from: Caidenbug

at least you did your part in prevention. It doesnt always work but most of the time it does.

reply from: BossMomma

How do you know she didn't? Could it be that her bc failed as well?

reply from: Caidenbug

I felt the same way before I knew i had fertility issues so sorry you cant use that against me.

reply from: Cecilia

No "force" is required for a pregnant woman to remain pregnant. "Forced to remain pregnant" is a dishonest euphemism for "prohibited from killing your child," and it is used by dishonest prochoicers who attempt to imply that prolifers want to control women when we are actually only concerned about saving lives. Pregnancies end every day, yet I have never seen a single prolife protest against live birth. None of us has any interest whatsoever in "forcing women to remain pregnant." We understand that pregnancy is temporary, and that no woman ever "remains pregnant" anyway.
As far as we are concerned, every woman may fore go pregnancy and child birth if they choose, and we by no means insist any woman must reproduce. We certainly do not insist any woman must "remain pregnant" once she does, either. You may terminate your pregnancy at whatever time, and in whatever way you choose, provided you do not harm your child.
Honest people will acknowledge that we are concerned only about the health and well being of the active participants in the pregnancy, and have no interest in the pregnancy itself except in that it has the capacity to effect these other concerns, concerns for mother and child.
In this post you have managed to belittle the experience of pregnancy, ignore the implications of your "prolife" stance, and be dishonest about the concerns of those who would outlaw abortion. Bravissimo!

reply from: BossMomma

Sure I can, you wait so long for a kid and just can't believe every other woman doesn't want to be pregnant as bad as you. Do you honestly think pregnancy is a blessing to every woman?

reply from: Caidenbug

she told me she didnt use any method of bc cause he didnt like condoms and the pills made her gain weight. If women dont want to get pregnant they should have their tubes tied. Do you know how many couples want to adopt babies? pregnancy last only 9 months after the birth give the child up for adoption. Its far better than killing it.

reply from: BossMomma

Very good. So now we don't have to discuss the usual rhetoric any more? You won't claim to have a "right to control" things you have no control over? You admit that you can only really "control" whether or not you kill your offspring intentionally?
Right, I can choose whether or not to remain pregnant.
Don't try to dress it down, BM, call it what it is. Say, "I can kill my twins if I want because they're mine, and their only significance is based on my desires."
Your the one dramatizing the issue and putting words into my mouth. Why not stop being such a drama whore and simply call it what it is? The choice to remain or not to remain pregnant.

reply from: BossMomma

Well hey, when he gestates he can decide.
When you can conceive without him, then you can decide...
I can already decide, if he tried to stop me he'd be obstructing my legal rights. It's called unlawful restraint. I could then have him arrested and a restraining order put in place.

reply from: BossMomma

You sound very naive and biased because of your fertility issues. Yes I am saying that I am the only person who can decide whether or not I stay pregnant. A man knocking me up does not give him any right of say over my body.
Nor does it give you any "right of say" over the child's body.
Yes, it does.

reply from: BossMomma

Very good. So now we don't have to discuss the usual rhetoric any more? You won't claim to have a "right to control" things you have no control over? You admit that you can only really "control" whether or not you kill your offspring intentionally?
Right, I can choose whether or not to remain pregnant.
Don't try to dress it down, BM, call it what it is. Say, "I can kill my twins if I want because they're mine, and their only significance is based on my desires."
Your the one dramatizing the issue and putting words into my mouth. Why not stop being such a drama whore and simply call it what it is? The choice to remain or not to remain pregnant.
Ah, so I touched a nerve, did I? That might be viewed as encouraging... Face the ugly truth of what you are defending, BM. Call it what it is. You say you don't want to kill your children, but you demand the "right" to do so if you choose... I'm not putting any words in your mouth. You are clearly defending your right to kill your children.
I don't have to defend women's rights, they exist whether you acknowledge or agree with them. Any woman, me, the woman next door or, even your wife (if you have one) has the exact same rights. Whether or not they use them is their choice alone. You didn't touch a nerve, you simply fail to acknowledge reality.

reply from: BossMomma

Well hey, when he gestates he can decide.
When you can conceive without him, then you can decide...
I can already decide, if he tried to stop me he'd be obstructing my legal rights. It's called unlawful restraint. I could then have him arrested and a restraining order put in place.
Laws can be changed, BM. When we get them changed, what will you hide behind?
LOL whether or not you change the law really wont have any effect on me, I chose to forgo abortion and intend to have my tubes tied after my twins are born (4 kids is quite enough). You still wont be taking anything from me. It's the millions of other women you'll have to monitor, herbalists who have knowledge of abortifacent plants as I do, desperate teens and abused wives who seek the services of back alley quacks, women overdosing on say, aspirine which dries up amnionic fluid etc. It's you who'll be in for a heap of trouble, not me.

reply from: BossMomma

You sound very naive and biased because of your fertility issues. Yes I am saying that I am the only person who can decide whether or not I stay pregnant. A man knocking me up does not give him any right of say over my body.
Nor does it give you any "right of say" over the child's body.
Yes, it does.
Hiding behind the law again? The law does not make your "right" to kill your children morally acceptable... At least you seem aware that your position is morally indefensible, and that without the law, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. This is why I believe it's just a matter of time before current abortion laws are done away with. Even you seem to realize there is no valid ethical defense of them.
I really could care less about your morals, your violent history makes me question where you have a right to thrust morals on anyone.

reply from: BossMomma

And I don't think the US has the right to invade other countries and tell them how to run their show, but obviously Bush doesn't give a damn about what I think because our troops are still in Iraq. You place too much value on your opinion.

reply from: BossMomma

You sound very naive and biased because of your fertility issues. Yes I am saying that I am the only person who can decide whether or not I stay pregnant. A man knocking me up does not give him any right of say over my body.
Nor does it give you any "right of say" over the child's body.
Yes, it does.
Hiding behind the law again? The law does not make your "right" to kill your children morally acceptable... At least you seem aware that your position is morally indefensible, and that without the law, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. This is why I believe it's just a matter of time before current abortion laws are done away with. Even you seem to realize there is no valid ethical defense of them.
Nothing is really morally defensible, ethics and morals vary too broadly to hold any real ground in a serious debate concerning a woman's legal rights.

reply from: scopia1982

I hope that she gets her tubes tied after these precious twins are born Godwilling. She does not realize how ridiculous she sounds. They have names and she already claims to love them. From the the nature of her posts they are not persons, even human, just mere property. Well guess what the unborn are human, are persons. We once said that women were not persons and the same goes for blacks. What the law says and what really is are too different things. Guess what sometimes the law is wrong. I would give my eyeteeth to be in her position of being blessed with twins. I cant have anymore children at all. I sometimes dont understand the injustice of it all.

reply from: BossMomma

My "semantic games?" Surely you jest....
A person without rights....
So, define "person..." What makes a child a "person" in your view. Forget the law.
Can there be a pregnancy without the mother? How about the father? So are the mother and father also "the pregnancy?"
I was with you until you said "the only part you play is the donation of your sperm until the birth of the child." Your SO is not currently playing any role in your pregnancy?
So you can no longer opt to abort? That was the question... If your twins have been granted "rights," then you can't abort now even if you want to, right? You gave up that "right," allowing it to be "trumped." (that's the right word, isn't it, "trumped?"
I choose to give up that right because it is not a good option for me, if abortion became illegal it wouldn't make much of a difference to me as I don't use it anyway.

reply from: BossMomma

I hope that she gets her tubes tied after these precious twins are born Godwilling. She does not realize how ridiculous she sounds. They have names and she already claims to love them. From the the nature of her posts they are not persons, even human, just mere property. Well guess what the unborn are human, are persons. We once said that women were not persons and the same goes for blacks. What the law says and what really is are too different things. Guess what sometimes the law is wrong. I would give my eyeteeth to be in her position of being blessed with twins. I cant have anymore children at all. I sometimes dont understand the injustice of it all.
Scopia, Caidenbug is not refering to me in the post above, she is refering to a co-worker. I used birth control and got pregnant anyway, furthermore none of my pregnancies have ever been considered for abortion. I do not think of my unborn children as property, I am refering to their legal status and how other women might view an unwanted pregnancy.

reply from: yoda

They are, if you are willing to defend them. You, apparently, are not.

reply from: ProInformed

A fetus does not have the capacity to like anything, considering that most are aborted by 8 weeks there is hardly any brain present. It's like a carrot protesting it's right not to be eaten.
Notorious ethicists make the same argument regarding born children, right? Ever hear a newborn demand its right to live?
For that matter don't hold your breath waiting for pro-abort women to start demanding their right to the patient protection right of Informed Consent;
or for them to start demanding that the promised safety regulations that were supposed to come with legalization actually get passed. Pro-abort female sheeple just parrot whatever lies the abortion industry feeds them without even questioning it, assuring other women that legal equals 'safe' and that the abortion industry can be trusted. Hey, I guess that's why the abortion industry doesn't feel guilty for lying to and endangering those women, eh? After all, they aren't even asserting their right to be told the truth and it doesn't even bother them that the abortion industry opposes all attempts to pass legislation to make legal abortion 'safer' than illegal abortions. So by the same pro-abort 'logic' that claims aborted babies have no rights, BECAUSE they don't demand them, the abortion industry feels fine about denying women their rights too, because THEY don't demand them, they've settled for less.

reply from: BossMomma

A fetus does not have the capacity to like anything, considering that most are aborted by 8 weeks there is hardly any brain present. It's like a carrot protesting it's right not to be eaten.
Notorious ethicists make the same argument regarding born children, right? Ever hear a newborn demand its right to live?
For that matter don't hold your breath waiting for pro-abort women to start demanding their right to the patient protection right of Informed Consent;
or for them to start demanding that the promised safety regulations that were supposed to come with legalization actually get passed. Pro-abort female sheeple just parrot whatever lies the abortion industry feeds them without even questioning it, assuring other women that legal equals 'safe' and that the abortion industry can be trusted. Hey, I guess that's why the abortion industry doesn't feel guilty for lying to and endangering those women, eh? After all, they aren't even asserting their right to be told the truth and it doesn't even bother them that the abortion industry opposes all attempts to pass legislation to make legal abortion 'safer' than illegal abortions. So by the same pro-abort 'logic' that claims aborted babies have no rights, BECAUSE they don't demand them, the abortion industry feels fine about denying women their rights too, because THEY don't demand them, they've settled for less.
That made no sense what so ever.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

It appears to be another rambling rant from someone who thinks that women can just pop in at the local clinic for an abortion and get one on demand, without counseling and without signing a consent form.
The ignorance on this board is appalling.

reply from: sk1bianca

Former abortion counselor, Nita Whitten: "It's a lie when they tell you they're doing it to help women, because they're not. They're doing it for the money."
Former abortion counselor, Debra Henry: "We were told to find the woman's weakness and work on it. The women were never given any alternatives. They were told how much trouble it was to have a baby."
Former abortion counselor, Kathy Sparks: "The counselor at our clinic could cry with the girls at the drop of a pin. She would find out what was driving them to want to abort that child and she would magnify it."
Carol Everett, former clinic owner: "We didn't do any real counseling. We sold abortion."

reply from: ProInformed

Well it is your ignorance that is showing my dear since you apparently are not even aware that MANY pro-lifers used to be 'pro-choice', many had abortions themselves in their past (and therefore DO KNOW that abortion clinics do indeed encourage women who call to make an appointment ASAP, falsely assuring that all the option info will be given at the appointment but then they use hard sell tactics, tell lies, and rush the women through like an assembly line), and some are former abortion industry employees or former abortionists.
The 'counseling' you falsely claim is given is nothing more than a slaes pithc combined with a pack of lies.
Before you attempt to debate you should at least have the common sense and courtesy to learn something about the abortion industry.
Falsely assuring women that the abortion industry can be trusted is shamefully anti-woman.

reply from: BossMomma

Well it is your ignorance that is showing my dear since you apparently are not even aware that MANY pro-lifers used to be 'pro-choice', many had abortions themselves in their past (and therefore DO KNOW that abortion clinics do indeed encourage women who call to make an appointment ASAP, falsely assuring that all the option info will be given at the appointment but then they use hard sell tactics, tell lies, and rush the women through like an assembly line), and some are former abortion industry employees or former abortionists.
The 'counseling' you falsely claim is given is nothing more than a slaes pithc combined with a pack of lies.
Before you attempt to debate you should at least have the common sense and courtesy to learn something about the abortion industry.
Falsely assuring women that the abortion industry can be trusted is shamefully anti-woman.
I used to be pro-life, I'm now pro-choice and have been for 6 years. People on both sides change.

reply from: ProInformed

That made no sense what so ever.
So it makes no sense to you for women to believe they are entitled to patient protection rights, to expect that those who promised that legal abortion would be safer than illegal abortion to actually allow the legislation that might make legal abortions safer to be passed?
The argument was being made that since aborted babies don't speak up to defend their own rights that they are therefore not entitled to rights.
Maybe that's the same sort of 'logic' abortionists employ to excuse denying pregnant women patient protection rights and the needed regulations to at least make legal abortions 'safer' than illegal abortions (as was promised)?
BECAUSE so many women are willing to simply trust the abortion industry no-questions-asked, willing to settle for having their patient protection rights denied and watching the abortion industry openly opposing the needed safety regulations, then the abortionists must feel OK about denying those rights and protections to the women.
And not only do the pro-abort female sheeple fail to speak up against the abortion industry in order to protect their own rights, safety, or even their LIVES... they mindlessly mouth abortion industry slogans thereby ASSISTING the abortion industry in stripping them of their rights and endangering their health and lives!
And some are SO brianwashed they indeed don't even get it...
Hey, I have no doubt that many 'pro-choice' females really don't get it!
(Sort of like the followers of Jim Jones and other cults leaders didn't get it either...)

reply from: RiverMoonLady

That made no sense what so ever.
So it makes no sense to you for women to believe they are entitled to patient protection rights, to expect that those who promised that legal abortion would be safer than illegal abortion to actually allow the legislation that might make legal abortions safer to be passed?
The argument was being made that since aborted babies don't speak up to defend their own rights that they are therefore not entitled to rights.
Maybe that's the same sort of 'logic' abortionists employ to excuse denying pregnant women patient protection rights and the needed regulations to at least make legal abortions 'safer' than illegal abortions (as was promised)?
BECAUSE so many women are willing to simply trust the abortion industry no-questions-asked, willing to settle for having their patient protection rights denied and watching the abortion industry openly opposing the needed safety regulations, then the abortionists must feel OK about denying those rights and protections to the women.
And not only do the pro-abort female sheeple fail to speak up against the abortion industry in order to protect their own rights, safety, or even their LIVES... they mindlessly mouth abortion industry slogans thereby ASSISTING the abortion industry in stripping them of their rights and endangering their health and lives!
And some are SO brianwashed they indeed don't even get it...
Hey, I have no doubt that many 'pro-choice' females really don't get it!
(Sort of like the followers of Jim Jones and other cults leaders didn't get it either...)
Your're sooooooooo funny, Uninformed. I had an abortion years ago after having two children. Planned Parenthood confirmed that I was pregnant, but would NOT make an appointment for me to get an abortion - I was on my own for that. The clinic made me go through a long chat with a counselor (including all the options available), I had to sign several consent forms (anesthesia and surgery), the clinic was clean, the doctor and nurses were considerate and good at their jobs, the surgery was simple and it was a much better experience than giving birth.
So, I really do know what I am talking about, unlike the emotional men, teenagers and barren women here.
BTW, your dear friend Mark Crutcher needs money - didn't you read his appeal? Talk about being in it for the money!!!

reply from: ProInformed

What's that noise I hear? Bahhh-bahhhhh-bahhhh... blah...blah...blah
Ah the sound of the sheeple LOL.
"Planned Parenthood confirmed that I was pregnant, but would NOT make an appointment for me to get an abortion - I was on my own for that."
This part reveals that you are flat out lying because ALL PP facilities, even if they do not perform abortions on the premise, do abortion referrals.
What specifically was covered in your "long chat" with the 'counselor'?
(Define "long chat" - how much time and how long before the abortion?)
What specific risks were you warned about, possible abortion complications?
Were any of the consent forms that you signed REAL Informed Consent forms, as normally applies to all other medical procedures? (Did the forms clearly state all the possible risk and provide a copy for you to take with you?) IF you really were told the truth in your pre-abortion counseling than you should be able to tell us all about the possible risks from abortion, right?
Let's hear what you know based on what you were told, eh?
What anesthesia was used and what were you told about the risks of the anesthesia?
Also, what info were you given about fetal development by the 'counselor'?
How many weeks pregnant were you?
Give an accurate description of how big and developed your baby was, based on what the abortion clinic 'counselor' (salesperson) told you.
What abortion method was used for your abortion.
How did the 'counselor' describe the procedure to you?
Oh and paying a prenatal hitman to kill your innocent baby was much better than giving birth in your opinion? OK.... (whew!)
Anyway, the issue is not whether you personally (claim to have) had an abortion at a clinic that you feel was clean and safe enough... the issue is whether or not women have a right to patient protection rights and safety procedures being LEGALLY REQUIRED. Post a link to a single piece of legislation sponsored by a 'pro-choice' group that would grant pregnant women those protections. Tell us where in Roe v Wade those patient protection rights and safety standards are spelled out. What have YOU done personally to ensure that ALL women entering ANY abortion clinic will be told the truth and will be 'safe'?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

q]Originally posted by: ProInformed
What's that noise I hear? Bahhh-bahhhhh-bahhhh... blah...blah...blah
Ah the sound of the sheeple LOL.
You must live in the country if you are hearing sheep.
"Planned Parenthood confirmed that I was pregnant, but would NOT make an appointment for me to get an abortion - I was on my own for that."
This part reveals that you are flat out lying because ALL PP facilities, even if they do not perform abortions on the premise, do abortion referrals.
Nope, they DID NOT give me a referral, other to say that there were clinics in the area that were listed in the phone book.
What specifically was covered in your "long chat" with the 'counselor'?
(Define "long chat" - how much time and how long before the abortion?)
Immediately before, for about 15 minutes - they explained the procedure in great detail, gave me written information on the anesthesia, explained the surgical risks, discussed birth control methods (I had been using the "Today" sponge, which was later taken off the market due to its failure rate), gave me a prescription for the Pill (my choice of BC), and more.
What specific risks were you warned about, possible abortion complications?
All of them, including the risks of general anesthesia, and including a written procedure for aftercare.
Were any of the consent forms that you signed REAL Informed Consent forms, as normally applies to all other medical procedures? (Did the forms clearly state all the possible risk and provide a copy for you to take with you?) IF you really were told the truth in your pre-abortion counseling than you should be able to tell us all about the possible risks from abortion, right?
YES, they were "real" and YES, they DID tell me the risks. Sorry if I cannot recall in detail, but this happened almost 20 years ago.
Let's hear what you know based on what you were told, eh?
I'm not a stupid person and I'm 52 years old, so I know quite a lot.
What anesthesia was used and what were you told about the risks of the anesthesia?
General anesthesia, and I was quite aware of the risks because of already having several surgeries with that type.
Also, what info were you given about fetal development by the 'counselor'?
I already knew, so when she started to tell me, I cut her off. It was my third pregnancy and I already gave birth to two children.
How many weeks pregnant were you?
NINE
Give an accurate description of how big and developed your baby was, based on what the abortion clinic 'counselor' (salesperson) told you.
See above.
What abortion method was used for your abortion.
Vacuum aspiration
How did the 'counselor' describe the procedure to you?
In explicit detail.
Oh and paying a prenatal hitman to kill your innocent baby was much better than giving birth in your opinion? OK.... (whew!)
You do not know my medical history, do you? I had more than one medical reason to abort.
Anyway, the issue is not whether you personally (claim to have) had an abortion at a clinic that you feel was clean and safe enough... the issue is whether or not women have a right to patient protection rights and safety procedures being LEGALLY REQUIRED. Post a link to a single piece of legislation sponsored by a 'pro-choice' group that would grant pregnant women those protections. Tell us where in Roe v Wade those patient protection rights and safety standards are spelled out. What have YOU done personally to ensure that ALL women entering ANY abortion clinic will be told the truth and will be 'safe'?
Do I look like a government agency to you? Obviously I survived without complications. Do women have to be told the risks of childbirth and pregnancy before having a child? Hell, my OB/GYN told me literally nothing, I read about it on my own.

reply from: scopia1982

RML I had a forced abortion 8 yrs ago and for me it was the worst thing that I have ever been through. I am blessed with a 5 yr old little boy and even though my pregnancy was rough, it was bliss compared the the former. The OB/gyn was a friend of my ex's mom and was doing her and him favor. I told them I didnt want the abortion, they gassed me and did it anyway. Before that they gave me no information, made damn sure I signed the forms and I was a minor in a state that required the consent of a parent. Not only did I have a dead child, I had a butchered uterus that caused problems in my next pregnancy. I had I believe its called and D&E I was 5 months pregnant. Usually they insert a luminara (sp) that is supposed to be left in overnight and u come back the next day. They didnt do that with me, they wanted to get it done and over with so they manually dialated my cervix, I dont know how but they did it, dont want to dwell on it. My wants were not considered because he was the one paying. As the 'counslour" said they were paid to do a job and thats just what they were going to do I wasnt ready to be a mom and I could always have more children later. Why did he want this done? Because he was 21 at the time and had been arrested on charges of statutory rape with a 13 yr old and me being pregnant would show concrete proof that he had a pattern of having sex with minors. So he needed to get rid of any evidence.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I'm sorry that you were not old enough or educated enough to know that it is COMPLETELY WRONG (and should be illegal) to force ANY woman to abort. You should have screamed bloody murder and hit people - I know I would have. I take it that you were very young. Did you ever have your ex arrested??

reply from: scopia1982

I was 17 almost 18 and I wasnt educated enough. I tried to get off the table to leave and they told me it was too late to change my mind. He had a gun in his car and threatened to put a bullet in my brain if I didnt go with him. I was naive because I believed the prochoice rhetoric and thought that if I told these people what was going on they would call the police. My mom was at work only 2 miles away, she would have come and got me and gave me an ear full about not telling her I was pregnant in the 1st place (alot of issues). I only gained 10 lbs by that time and you really couldnt tell because I always worse baggy clothes,. I didnt have him arrested because he told me if I didnt keep my mouth shut he would kill me, my parents and my then 10 yr old sister. I never told anybody until 2004. Because I was ashamed.

reply from: ProInformed

Yes, it should be illegal.
Why don't 'pro-choicers' DO something to make it illegal?
Why has it taken SO LONG, and why has it taken SO MANY women being coerced to abort for the abortion industry to finally start saying something it?
The only logical conclusion is that as long as they could pretend it wasn't really happening, as long as they could get away with it (the abortion industry has been complicit and makes a sale every time it happens after all), they had no motive to stop it. The only reason they are finally now admitting that it happens is because SO MANY people have found out about it, despite the biased media and the abortion industry's attempts to cover it up, despite the women who try to expose it being called liars and being blamed for it.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Yes, it should be illegal.
Why don't 'pro-choicers' DO something to make it illegal?
Why has it taken SO LONG, and why has it taken SO MANY women being coerced to abort for the abortion industry to finally start saying something it?
The only logical conclusion is that as long as they could pretend it wasn't really happening, as long as they could get away with it (the abortion industry has been complicit and makes a sale every time it happens after all), they had no motive to stop it. The only reason they are finally now admitting that it happens is because SO MANY people have found out about it, despite the biased media and the abortion industry's attempts to cover it up, despite the women who try to expose it being called liars and being blamed for it.
Obviously you have a limited understanding of the meaning of "Pro-CHOICE" - the name is not "Pro-FORCE" or "Pro-What the Man Wants" or "Pro-What Your Parents Want".
I believe that the person accompanying the woman to the clinic should be separated from the woman immediately, that pointed questions should be asked during the counseling (Why are you having the abortion? Did anyone threaten you? Are you being forced to come here? How old is the father? Do your parents know (if they are minors) and did they force you to come here?)
Should there be laws? Yes, there should. And women who are being forced to abort should be able to sit, locked in an office, until the police come and take her into protective custody. The parent(s) or man should be arrested and charged with harrassment, at the very least.
What have I done?? Well, I don't make laws, but I vote in every single election. And I voice my opinion often and in many places.
What have YOU dones?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I was 17 almost 18 and I wasnt educated enough. I tried to get off the table to leave and they told me it was too late to change my mind. He had a gun in his car and threatened to put a bullet in my brain if I didnt go with him. I was naive because I believed the prochoice rhetoric and thought that if I told these people what was going on they would call the police. My mom was at work only 2 miles away, she would have come and got me and gave me an ear full about not telling her I was pregnant in the 1st place (alot of issues). I only gained 10 lbs by that time and you really couldnt tell because I always worse baggy clothes,. I didnt have him arrested because he told me if I didnt keep my mouth shut he would kill me, my parents and my then 10 yr old sister. I never told anybody until 2004. Because I was ashamed.
I take it that this happened a long time ago, and that you now know a lot more about domestic abuse - because yours is a classic case. I totally understand, and I am sorry you could not confide in your mother. If you had, this would have had a different outcome, I am sure.

reply from: ProInformed

{{{{{{{scopia}}}}}}}
I want to assure you that you are not alone.
Unfortunately lots of other women have experienced similar coercion, and also trusted that once they got to the clinic SURELY the 'pro-choice' people there would help them. One of the most common reasons why women agree to undergo abortions is because somebody else expected or demanded that they do so. But it isn't just having the abortion that the woman is expected to do, she's also expected to pretend it was her choice. Women who refuse to 'choose' abortion are often in danger of retaliation from their oppressors. The number one cause of death for pregnant women is being murdered, usually by the 'pro-choice' father of the baby. It's shameful how silent the 'pro-choice' movement has been on this. Each individual pregnant woman is abandoned to try to stand up for her baby's right to life on her own - the 'pro-choice' movement is too busy defending 'abortion rights' to focus any efforts helping women who do NOT want to abort.
This is finally, slowly, changing, VERY slowly, as in so far mostly giving lip service to admitting that coercing women to abort is wrong and anti-choice, BECAUSE the public has found out too much and the abortion industry is having some PR problems over it. Lying and denying is still being done but a slight shift towards admitting the truth has started. Like a child caught in a lie and confronted with evidence that can no longer be denied, they are starting to 'confess'. (Don't hold your breath wating for them to DO something about it though - they DO sell abortions after all.)
I commend you for your courage in telling your story.
It may help warn some other women about how they canNOT trust the abortion industry employees will help them in such a situation. Those who call themselves 'pro-choice' SHOULD be speaking out against such coercion and doing all they can to help stop it. But be aware that many who call themselves 'pro-choice really are pro-abortion. Those sorts attack women who dare to expose the dirty secrets of the abortion industry. Don't let them silence you though because keeping quiet just endangers more women while enabling the abortion industry to continue their complicity in coerced abortions.
Don't blame yourself for trusting the abortion clinic staff, or for not putting up more of a fight. Pro-choice groups and individuals put a LOT of effort into assuring women that abortion clinics can be trusted. Of course you had no reason to doubt that and you SHOULD have been able to expect help from them (if they were really pro-choice). Also putting up more of a fight at the clinic most likely would have still resulted in your baby being killed, plus you would probably have been harmed too. Angela Sanchez was tied up and injected with a drug to subdue her in an attempt to force her to undergo an abortion (she had gone there for a pregnancy test) She ended up dead. The clinic staff got caught trying to stuff her body in the trunk of her car.
Too many males feel they are entitled to sex and then entitled to demand that the women they impregnate get an abortion. Those males are not afraid the pro-choice movement will chastise them in any way. In fact the abortion industry has sided with males instead of pregnant females when the male wants the female to abort. And those males can become very angry and violent if they don't get their way. The media and society have led those males to believe that the women SHOULD abort, that the woman is trying to 'manipulate' them if the won't abort. It infuriates them to be confronted with a woman who won't comply. They want the woman to abort, to pretend it was what she wanted to do, and to never reveal any regret about it afterwards, let alone expose the coercion that was applied. Those males see nothing wrong with what they're doing because that is the same attitude of the 'pro-choice' movement; those males think they are just being 'pro-choice'.
One of my sisters was forced to abort.
She had been raped and my parents made her have the abortion.
They told her she didn't have any say in it - that it was THEIR decision to make - not hers.
When women talk about their abortions a lot of them say they 'had to have an abortion' or they 'had no choice'. They aren't always referring to financial circumstances, the lack of support for refusing to choose abortion, or health problems either. They are referring to the fact that they were not really given a choice, somebody expected them to abort, or else.
Ah, but we aren't supposed to talk about that... nothing upsets some choicers more than refusing to go along with the pretense that most women willingly choose to abort. (Some do but they are the rare cold-hearted type - not typical.)

reply from: Cecilia

I was 17 almost 18 and I wasnt educated enough. I tried to get off the table to leave and they told me it was too late to change my mind. He had a gun in his car and threatened to put a bullet in my brain if I didnt go with him. I was naive because I believed the prochoice rhetoric and thought that if I told these people what was going on they would call the police. My mom was at work only 2 miles away, she would have come and got me and gave me an ear full about not telling her I was pregnant in the 1st place (alot of issues). I only gained 10 lbs by that time and you really couldnt tell because I always worse baggy clothes,. I didnt have him arrested because he told me if I didnt keep my mouth shut he would kill me, my parents and my then 10 yr old sister. I never told anybody until 2004. Because I was ashamed.
I'm coming in a little late, sorry if I have missed the details, but did you tell the staff exactly what was going on? I have read that many women say they were coerced but didn't tell anyone, and then they feel they don't need to take responsibility for their decisions. I'm not saying that is your case, but I have heard it before. It is hard for the clinic staff to do anything when you don't tell them.
On this thread we have two women who were coerced into their abortions and think abortion should be illegal, two women who chose their abortions and support the legality.
I'm sure thereis a relationship there.
We also have four women who believe coerced abortions should be illegal.

reply from: scopia1982

thank you PI. Probably the most notable case is the Florida case of JaneRoeII v Aware Woman in Florida. Here is a link to the 911 call, notice how they ask for no lights or sirens. These clinics only care about money not the women.
http://www.forerunner.com/fyi/law/roe-v-aw/911call032997.htm

reply from: ProInformed

Nope. I used to be a pro-choice advocate.
I understand the difference between choice and coercion.
I used to assume that the 'pro-choice' movement was truly pro-choice...
but the more I learned the more it was revealed they are really pro-abortion.
When a movement calls itself 'pro-choice' but sides with whomever wants to coerce a female to abort (male, parents, boss) they aren't really pro-choice.
It is not I who has a distorted understanding of what pro-choice SHOULD mean;
the so-called 'pro-choice' groups have not behaved consistent with the label they claim. IS that something YOU have a limited ability to understand?

reply from: scopia1982

I was 17 almost 18 and I wasnt educated enough. I tried to get off the table to leave and they told me it was too late to change my mind. He had a gun in his car and threatened to put a bullet in my brain if I didnt go with him. I was naive because I believed the prochoice rhetoric and thought that if I told these people what was going on they would call the police. My mom was at work only 2 miles away, she would have come and got me and gave me an ear full about not telling her I was pregnant in the 1st place (alot of issues). I only gained 10 lbs by that time and you really couldnt tell because I always worse baggy clothes,. I didnt have him arrested because he told me if I didnt keep my mouth shut he would kill me, my parents and my then 10 yr old sister. I never told anybody until 2004. Because I was ashamed.
I'm coming in a little late, sorry if I have missed the details, but did you tell the staff exactly what was going on? I have read that many women say they were coerced but didn't tell anyone, and then they feel they don't need to take responsibility for their decisions. I'm not saying that is your case, but I have heard it before. It is hard for the clinic staff to do anything when you don't tell them.
On this thread we have two women who were coerced into their abortions and think abortion should be illegal, two women who chose their abortions and support the legality.
I'm sure thereis a relationship there.
We also have four women who believe coerced abortions should be illegal.
Ceceila I told them exactly what was going on. I think the fact that ex's mom was friends with the doctor and a patient of his had alot to do with what they did. This wasnt just an abortion only clinic, but a private GYN practice who do abortions mostly, but provide GYN care.

reply from: Cecilia

I was 17 almost 18 and I wasnt educated enough. I tried to get off the table to leave and they told me it was too late to change my mind. He had a gun in his car and threatened to put a bullet in my brain if I didnt go with him. I was naive because I believed the prochoice rhetoric and thought that if I told these people what was going on they would call the police. My mom was at work only 2 miles away, she would have come and got me and gave me an ear full about not telling her I was pregnant in the 1st place (alot of issues). I only gained 10 lbs by that time and you really couldnt tell because I always worse baggy clothes,. I didnt have him arrested because he told me if I didnt keep my mouth shut he would kill me, my parents and my then 10 yr old sister. I never told anybody until 2004. Because I was ashamed.
I'm coming in a little late, sorry if I have missed the details, but did you tell the staff exactly what was going on? I have read that many women say they were coerced but didn't tell anyone, and then they feel they don't need to take responsibility for their decisions. I'm not saying that is your case, but I have heard it before. It is hard for the clinic staff to do anything when you don't tell them.
On this thread we have two women who were coerced into their abortions and think abortion should be illegal, two women who chose their abortions and support the legality.
I'm sure thereis a relationship there.
We also have four women who believe coerced abortions should be illegal.
Ceceila I told them exactly what was going on. I think the fact that ex's mom was friends with the doctor and a patient of his had alot to do with what they did. This wasnt just an abortion only clinic, but a private GYN practice who do abortions mostly, but provide GYN care.
That is absolutely horrendous and I wish you could go back in time and change it. Is it too late to call the police and report the gun or abuse or anything?
I just had a thought if there is no statute of limitation on murder if abortion is abolished will this ligitious society get worse?

reply from: ProInformed

Why don't you contact your elected officials to encourage them to pass those laws?
You could contact groups that call themselves 'pro-choice' and challenge them to actually BE pro-choice, to support legislation that would require abortion clinics to adopt anti-coercion policies.
You could contact the National Abortion Federation to challenge them to drop their endorsement of abortion clinics that refuse to adopt anti-coercion protectons.
You could help warn women that unless those protections are put into place they should not trust that abortion clinic staff will protect them from coercion, even if the coercer is threatening to kill them.
You could post at 'pro-choice' message boards to convince your fellow pro-choicers to also support those needed protections against anti-choice forced abortions. (Please provide the link when you do this so we can verify that you concern is not merely pretended.)

reply from: scopia1982

I was 17 almost 18 and I wasnt educated enough. I tried to get off the table to leave and they told me it was too late to change my mind. He had a gun in his car and threatened to put a bullet in my brain if I didnt go with him. I was naive because I believed the prochoice rhetoric and thought that if I told these people what was going on they would call the police. My mom was at work only 2 miles away, she would have come and got me and gave me an ear full about not telling her I was pregnant in the 1st place (alot of issues). I only gained 10 lbs by that time and you really couldnt tell because I always worse baggy clothes,. I didnt have him arrested because he told me if I didnt keep my mouth shut he would kill me, my parents and my then 10 yr old sister. I never told anybody until 2004. Because I was ashamed.
I'm coming in a little late, sorry if I have missed the details, but did you tell the staff exactly what was going on? I have read that many women say they were coerced but didn't tell anyone, and then they feel they don't need to take responsibility for their decisions. I'm not saying that is your case, but I have heard it before. It is hard for the clinic staff to do anything when you don't tell them.
On this thread we have two women who were coerced into their abortions and think abortion should be illegal, two women who chose their abortions and support the legality.
I'm sure thereis a relationship there.
We also have four women who believe coerced abortions should be illegal.
Ceceila I told them exactly what was going on. I think the fact that ex's mom was friends with the doctor and a patient of his had alot to do with what they did. This wasnt just an abortion only clinic, but a private GYN practice who do abortions mostly, but provide GYN care.
That is absolutely horrendous and I wish you could go back in time and change it. Is it too late to call the police and report the gun or abuse or anything?
I just had a thought if there is no statute of limitation on murder if abortion is abolished will this ligitious society get worse?
To do anything criminally yes. I have thought about a civil suit, but I dont have the proof I need other than my own testimony and evidence of the physical damage to my uterus or to hire a lawyer. If I did and I did win, I would use the money to open a shelter for abused pregnant women.

reply from: ProInformed

I have written letters-to-the-editor, debated with pro-aborts, warned women, supported and testified in support of legislative efforts to protect women, contacted my elected officials, AND when I was still pro-choice, contacted 'pro-choice' groups and leaders to try to get them to side with the women instead of the coercers (to no avail).
I also challenge people like you to do more than merely claim you are pro-choice to actually DO SOMETHING to protect women, to contact YOUR pro-choice leaders and representatives to ask that THEY take action to protect women from pro-abortion, anti-choice coercion. I am not the one claiming to be pro-choice... you are.

reply from: ProInformed

So they literally said, "The risks are all of them, including the risks of general anesthesia"? And that's IT? TELL US WHAT specifically they told you. What specific risks did they warn you about, what possible abortion complications?
You've implied that it is intrue that aboriton clinics leave out info and lie to women.
You're claiming that you were told all the facts.
So prove it by telling us what you were told.
(Surely you don't expect us to simply believe your bland and general assurance that you were given all the info, when you can't or won't post here the specifics of what you were told?)

reply from: ProInformed

How was your baby's age determined and by whom? Had it been nine weeks since conception or since implantation? How big was your baby and what parts were already formed? All you have done is claim that you know about fetal development. Why are you so hesitant to actually post what you claim to know?
BTW just because you'd had babies before doesn't prove how much you do or don't know about fetal development. Where did you get your info about fetal development and what specifically were you told about how developed your baby was at nine weeks? PROVING what you know by actually posting it proves what you know, not merely claiming you know it.
(SHEESH NO WONDER you trust/believe that abortion clinic counseling is truthful and detailed! Your notion of detailed and specific is to just give very general and brief assurances LOL)

reply from: ProInformed

I find that hard to believe, partly because the abortion I had was vacuum aspiration and I was most certainly not told the truth about the procedure, partly because you have been so evasive and won't post the specific details you claim to have been told. WHAT specifically did the 'counselor' tell you?
I did NOT ask you to give your opinion of whether or not you believe you were given adequate and truthful info. I specifically challenged you to PROVE that was true by posting what you were told.
Hey, if you weren't really told any specifics, and therefore have no clue what the abortion did, what your baby looked like, and what risks you subjected yourself to, then just say so. You're not fooling anyone anyway.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

It was over 20 years ago and you want me to remember the EXACT conversation?? Honey, I'm over 50 and can't remember conversations I had last week.
Anyway, I realized that I did NOT have general anesthesia. When you've had as many surgeries and medical procedures as I've had, it's difficult to remember the details. I do remember a nurse holding my hand during the abortion, so I could not have had GA. It was a local.
When I was pregnant the first time, I learned everything I could about pregnancy and childbirth, because I am very interested in knowing everything possible about medical procedures before they happen to me. So, my dear, I did not blindly seek an abortion for my third pregnancy. It was confirmed that I was pregnant about 7 weeks after my last period, I had two weeks to consider my decision and I have ABSOLUTELY no regrets.
While your abortion experience was sad and difficult, mine was not - and, of all of my who have had abortions, NONE of them has had a bad experience or any regrets. You must realize that, when you are young, you are more likely to make uninformed, stupid decisions - so please do NOT assume that YOUR experience is typical of ALL abortions. MOST women who abort have good outcomes and no regrets. YOU are in the minority.
BTW, I am already a 30-years supporter of the local domestic violence shelter and support group, doing my part to see that NO woman has to endure FORCE to do ANYTHING at the hands of a man. Glad to hear you are in agreement with that!

reply from: ProInformed

In a democracy the voting citizens get to decide what is legal,
not a few male judges overstepping their authority.
Polls have consistently shown that only a very small minority of the citizens support the extremist legal status of abortion.
Also, forcing taxpayers to pay for abortions is not democratic (it's not pro-choice either).

reply from: RiverMoonLady

So, forcing taxpayers to pay for wars is OK? How about forcing taxpayers to support people who "can't" work? Or paying for a unmarried woman on medical assistance to not only get fertility assistance, but to go on and have sextuplets?
There are a lot of things taxpayers don't like to pay for - and I can easily name 20 or more - but that's how it works. VOTE!

reply from: ProInformed

So you come to a pro-life message board to post...
then complain about a pro-lifer who 'follows' you around 'attacking' you?
What did you expect to find here?
Pro-lifers who would simply give up their efforts to protect women and babies from the abortion industry just because you were posting here? LOL
Or maybe you expect your own private thread here where no pro-lifers can 'follow' you and 'attack' your POV?
Let's see... you've got those corrupt Supreme Court Justices who violated the check and balance system to pass Roe and Doe, the biased liberal media, the biased teacher's union and government school system, and the powerful abortion industry on your side... and you're here whining because it didn't occur to you that at a pro-life site you might have to actually defend your POV?
BTW while you were whining about feeling 'attacked' a few hundred more innocent human babies were fatally attacked by your side.

reply from: BossMomma

In a democracy the voting citizens get to decide what is legal,
not a few male judges overstepping their authority.
Polls have consistently shown that only a very small minority of the citizens support the extremist legal status of abortion.
Also, forcing taxpayers to pay for abortions is not democratic (it's not pro-choice either).
Actually laws are made based on the majority vote.

reply from: churchmouse

It's entertainment for those that are pro-abortion/choice. They like to mock those that think dismembering the unborn is wrong. Most of them think its cool. That is the main reason they are here.
Caidenburg said,
Yes it is in a way.......but the worst thing you can do is to run. They count on people getting discouraged and sick of the slime thrown at them.
You have science on your side remember that. Life starts at conception and it is incredible that the heart starts beating at only 20 days.
Most pro-aborts will never say or use the word "kill". They believe passionately about killing but they still dont want to sound inhuman.
They use terms that Hitler used, terminate, eliminate, procedure etc.....
You ask them if there is something wrong with abortion......and they won't answer. At least here you can question someone about their beliefs. I was on another forum, Beliefnet..and there they do not allow free speech to the pro-life side. The moderators are all pro-abortion and they will give you infractions left and right if you say anything against anyone who is pro-abortion.
They wont allow you to even relate abortion to Christianity to show that God would not condone it. They are anti-Christian, anti-life, pro-abortion.
This site is better and fair. They allow free speech.

reply from: churchmouse

You are mainly here because you like to mock those that think abortion is wrong. it' fun for you, because that is where your heart is....
Lukesmom does not need serious help, you do. You a common mother? Well what you say here on this board, does not show you to be a common at all. You are pro-abortion until natural delivery and that for anyone with a heart, is an inhumane act...Especially if you have had children of your own. And if you have children......God help them.
One word describes you.......PATHETIC. You are one pathetic person. You say you dont hate? ROFLMAO.
Liberal said,
Abortion is the act of killing a living human being in the womb. It is a scientific fact....life starts at conception. It is a fact that the abortionists job is specifically to kill that living human being.
Its not opinion.......its fact. It's opinion whether you think killing something in the womb is right or wrong.
Bossmomma thinks killing is ok. So for her abortion is cool and exciting. She says that right and wrong are subjective. So rape probably is cool, as is child abuse and child pornography. Anything probably is acceptable to her because for her, morals seem to be a laugh, something passe.
Abortion was made legal by judges who based the decision on lies, and their bias.
The facts were not presented as we found out later. Abortion was made legal for the tough cases, rape, incest and mothers health. Look at abortion today? Its an expensive form of birth control.
Yes morality changed and look at us today. People like you think truth is subjective, there isnt a right and a wrong.
There is no benefit to society with abortion. Only to those that have that Hitler mentality about life being exposeable to better our world. Lets target black babies, imperfect babies in the womb. They will find any excuse to justify killing.
Really?
http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/Statehomicidelaws092302.html

You said you werent hateful that you didnt hate anyone? Change your mind did ya?
I will never keep my reliigon to myself. NEVER. YOU DONT WANT TO LISTEN THEN PUT ME ON IGNORE. I have the right to free speech and you do and you use it dont you? You express your worldview, I am expressing mine.

reply from: BossMomma

You are mainly here because you like to mock those that think abortion is wrong. it' fun for you, because that is where your heart is....
Lukesmom does not need serious help, you do. You a common mother? Well what you say here on this board, does not show you to be a common at all. You are pro-abortion until natural delivery and that for anyone with a heart, is an inhumane act...Especially if you have had children of your own. And if you have children......God help them.
One word describes you.......PATHETIC. You are one pathetic person. You say you dont hate? ROFLMAO.
Liberal said,
Abortion is the act of killing a living human being in the womb. It is a scientific fact....life starts at conception. It is a fact that the abortionists job is specifically to kill that living human being.
Its not opinion.......its fact. It's opinion whether you think killing something in the womb is right or wrong.
Bossmomma thinks killing is ok. So for her abortion is cool and exciting. She says that right and wrong are subjective. So rape probably is cool, as is child abuse and child pornography. Anything probably is acceptable to her because for her, morals seem to be a laugh, something passe.
Abortion was made legal by judges who based the decision on lies, and their bias.
The facts were not presented as we found out later. Abortion was made legal for the tough cases, rape, incest and mothers health. Look at abortion today? Its an expensive form of birth control.
Yes morality changed and look at us today. People like you think truth is subjective, there isnt a right and a wrong.
There is no benefit to society with abortion. Only to those that have that Hitler mentality about life being exposeable to better our world. Lets target black babies, imperfect babies in the womb. They will find any excuse to justify killing.
Really?
http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/Statehomicidelaws092302.html
">http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Vic...laws092302.html

You said you werent hateful that you didnt hate anyone? Change your mind did ya?
I will never keep my reliigon to myself. NEVER. YOU DONT WANT TO LISTEN THEN PUT ME ON IGNORE. I have the right to free speech and you do and you use it dont you? You express your worldview, I am expressing mine.
Wow, feel that Christian love, I'm sure Jesus was cheering for you. You are just as guilty for having a bad attitude, saying hateful cold things that are meant to be hurtful although you didn't hurt me. This is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. Furthermore you slandered me by stating I agree with abortion up until natural birth, that is an out and out lie. I only agree with 1st trimester abortions. Second, I do not find abortion cool or exciting, I simply feel it is a woman's legal right.
So, try telling the truth for a change, you might find you like it. As to your religion, shout it as much as you want, I'll speak against it and we'll all have us a good ol' time as you are a crappy example of a follower of Jesus. You're more akin to the tyranical old testiment god that ordered whole villages massacred and virgin girls enslaved as concubines.

reply from: churchmouse

"Wow, feel that Christian love, I'm sure Jesus was cheering for you. You are just as guilty for having a bad attitude, saying hateful cold things that are meant to be hurtful although you didn't hurt me. This is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. Furthermore you slandered me by stating I agree with abortion up until natural birth, that is an out and out lie. I only agree with 1st trimester abortions. Second, I do not find abortion cool or exciting, I simply feel it is a woman's legal right."
The truth hurts doesn't it? Abortion is killing and you condone killing a human life. You only think first terms are better because they don't look like a baby yet that way you can come to grips with killing something small. But the bigger it gets, you get more uncomfortable with yourselves and don't want to come off as being inhumane.....I mean who would condone abortion when it really looks like a baby? Bigger means its worth saving to you pro-aborts.
____________________________
"So, try telling the truth for a change, you might find you like it. As to your religion, shout it as much as you want, I'll speak against it and we'll all have us a good ol' time as you are a crappy example of a follower of Jesus. You're more akin to the tyranical old testiment god that ordered whole villages massacred and virgin girls enslaved as concubines."
You tell me not to judge someones actions and heart.......and then you do it to me. LOL Oh the logic of the pro-aborts just amaze me. You never quit trying to pretend you have morals on this one.......do you? Its moral to kill up until......this date.......and immoral to kill after this one...........LMAO

reply from: BossMomma

You judged me first, don't sit there and whine when you get a taste of your own medicine. You also lied about me and totally ignored the fact that LukesMom was attacking me not out of a desire to protect fetuses but because her failed pregnancy gave her the blues.

reply from: ProInformed

Have you done anything to change the current legal status of abortion which allows for abortion on demand up until natural birth?
If you are confortable enough with the current legal status of abortion to not actively join the efforts to change it then it is dishonest to pretend that you only endorse 1st trimester abortions. Apathy is THE major enabler of, and therefore endorser of, the status quo.
Sign a petition to limit late-term abortions for non-medical excuses, suport legislative efforts to stop late-term abortions on demand, contact 'pro-choice' groups and politicians to oppose their defense of late-term abortions on demand...
or admit that "I only agree with 1st trimester abortions" is a shallow and false claim.

reply from: ProInformed

So you don't remember ANY of the details they told you at the clinic?
My abortion was 30 years ago and I remember what they told me.
So how can yo claim to know that you were told the truth?
How can you assert that you were given adequate and accurate info if you can't even remember what that info was?
Also you claimed that you knew about fetal development already so you told them to skip that info...but since then you've forgotten ALL your previous knowledge about fetal develoment? HUH!?!
Also implying that I was stupid is a pretty low blow. I was 'stupid' to trust the false and shallow assurances of people LIKE YOU who claim the clinics tell the truth. I at least had the intelligence and courage to start warning (vs insulting) other women when I discovered that abortion clinics do indeed lie to trusting women. You are STILL assuring women that clinics tell the truth even though you can't even remember enough to even determine whether or not you were lied to! I totally agree that it could be considered 'stupid' for women to trust your irresponsible and unfounded assurances!!!! But I differ with you in that I don't have the agenda of putting those women down for trusting people like you or the clinics.
There are LOTS of choicists like you who make fun of women AFTER the abortion for trusting that the clinics would tell them the truth. Why aren't you helping to warn women BEFORE they go to clinics? Which is it?
The clinics can be trusted to tell the truth...
OR
Women who trust the clinics to tell the truth are "stupid"?
Make up your mind.

reply from: ProInformed

Someone has gotten on with her life and someone hasn't. Someone had a positive experience and someone had a negative one.
Making fun of women who were lied to by the abortion industry isn't going to silence us and prevent us from warning other women.
Because WE actually care about women - you know that thing you only pretend to do.
I didn't merely have "a negative" experience, I was lied to, my baby was killed, my body was damaged by the so-called 'safe and legal' abortion, that caused 5 of my babies to die because of miscarriage and my 3 living children to have to be delivered by C-section, when I found out the truth about what my baby really looked like and what they did to my baby I had severe depression and nightmares, AND to this day I have to deal with jerks like you who insult women like me (while pretending to be 'pro-woman').
That's hardly "a" negative experience.
And I'm not the only woman who has had a 'negative experience' either.
Each one is ignored or ridiculed by choicists with the excuse that their experience must be so rare to not even be bothered about.
So tell us, exactly how many women have to have a negative experience before you would even begin to care?
The truth is that even if all but one woman said abortion was a negative experience you choicists would still be pointing to that one positive experience as an excuse to ALLOW the abortion industry to get away with lying to women.
The issue is NOT whether the majority of women who've had abortions feel their experience was a 'negative' or 'positive' one. Women are being lied to in order to sell abortions. Does it really matter whether SOME women are OK with the abortion industry lying to themselves or other women? If a business lied to you would you just shut up and put up, AND not try to report it and warn others, just because some customers, who went to a different business in the same industry, say they were not lied to where they went?

reply from: ProInformed

Someone has gotten on with her life and someone hasn't. Someone had a positive experience and someone had a negative one.
Making fun of women who were lied to by the abortion industry isn't going to silence us and prevent us from warning other women.
Because WE actually care about women - you know that thing you only pretend to do.
I didn't merely have "a negative" experience, I was lied to, my baby was killed, my body was damaged by the so-called 'safe and legal' abortion, that caused 5 of my babies to die because of miscarriage and my 3 living children to have to be delivered by C-section, when I found out the truth about what my baby really looked like and what they did to my baby I had severe depression and nightmares, AND to this day I have to deal with jerks like you who insult women like me (while pretending to be 'pro-woman').
That's hardly "a" negative experience.
And I'm not the only woman who has had a 'negative experience' either.
Each one is ignored or ridiculed by choicists with the excuse that their experience must be so rare to not even be bothered about.
So tell us, exactly how many women have to have a negative experience before you would even begin to care?
The truth is that even if all but one woman said abortion was a negative experience you choicists would still be pointing to that one positive experience as an excuse to ALLOW the abortion industry to get away with lying to women.
The issue is NOT whether the majority of women who've had abortions feel their experience was a 'negative' or 'positive' one. Women are being lied to in order to sell abortions. Does it really matter whether SOME women are OK with the abortion industry lying to themselves or other women? If a business lied to you would you just shut up and put up, AND not try to report it and warn others, just because some customers, who went to a different business in the same industry, say they were not lied to where they went?
Ah but you don't really care anyway do you?
You don't care how many women are lied to, injured, or even killed by abortionists because YOU won't ever have an abortion yourself will you?
You're most likely just another pro-abort male who wants abortion to stay legal AND women to trust the abortion clinics, so you can have 'free sex'. You're too focused on protecting 'abortion rights' to care about orotecting women's rights and safety. It sounds to me like you just want to protect the reputation of the abortion clinics instead of protecting the women because warning women might cause them to refuse to 'choose' abortion, and then you'd have to behave more responsibly.
You don't really think you're fooling the smart women do you?

reply from: ProInformed

Someone has gotten on with her life and someone hasn't. Someone had a positive experience and someone had a negative one.
Um the one who claimed she had a positive experience and asserted that she was given complete and factual info has finally admitted she doesn't even remember what she was told, so how can she verify that what she was told was the truth?
People don't generally block memories of a positive experience. Oh and they held her hand while they killed her baby... so that MUST mean they told her the truth? Uh-huh... if a salesperson acts nice they can't possibly be dishonest, eh?

reply from: churchmouse

Hey feel free to say anything you wish. Lukesmom was attacked period.
Pro-informed what you say about the information that is given out in PP clinics is true. They do not want women to know the truth. Why do you think they do not want sonograms done in their offices?
The PP clinic I went to did NOT TELL ME ANYTHING. I saw no video and talked to no counselor. They took my money, I sat in line and waited my turn. Its amazing how quiet those abortion mills are however. You could hear a pin drop and I think there were probably over twenty some woman in various stages waiting to kill. No one talks. I mean what would we talk about really? "Hey how old is the baby your killing?"
Yes someone has a conscience and feels bad about what she did and someone could care less. Killing for her is a positive experience. How sad.
Well itsn't that a guy you have by your name? LOL Troll like behavior? And what is yours? What is easy to understand is your pro-death views and how you hail abortion as something that is nothing. That says a lot about a person, it says a lot about you and your lack of compassion for an innocent human being.
How the hell do you know what is common? No one will ever get the true story about what womae who have killed their unborn really feel, because THEY ARE TO SCARED and EMBARASSED TO TALK ABOUT IT. This is not coffee table discussion. Women who have been hurt physically and mentally by abortion wont always come forward. They suffer in silence. And if a doctor has injured them most the time its settled in court because they do not want their case made public. Millions of abortions are done each year.......to say that only a few token women feel bad in the end is ridiculous.

reply from: carolemarie

The way I see it is that abortion is a business. They sell a product.
Women get an abortion because they don't wish to have a baby. They (women) are responsible for the abortion, no matter what the abortion business revels or conceals....
Personal responsibility.

reply from: carolemarie

Someone has gotten on with her life and someone hasn't. Someone had a positive experience and someone had a negative one.
Both have gone on with their lives....and abortion is one of those experiences women change their position on over the years. Most women who had abortions and are now prolife spent a portion of their life as avid abortion supporters. I know I did, Proinformed did and Churchmouse did. I claimed that abortion was my right and marched about with my keep abortion legal sign...and I didn't admit to feeling uncomfortable about it or how much it hurt me. I thought I was some kind of neurotic freak and the only one who felt bad about something that was in my best interest. So I kind of shut off my feelings and supported the party line....and I gotta tell you, I regret misleading other people to think abortion could and would solve their problems.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

Just put all of the pro-aborts you run into on your ignore list. People who advocate barbaric actions like killing unborn children aren't really worth listening to anyways.

reply from: lukesmom

Lukesmom admitted she was just playing around, finding a way to forget about her nonviable baby.
Clarification: My baby was viable and was born alive and died shortly after birth. My pregnancy was not a "failed" pregnancy as it did produce a live baby. Again this baby's name was Luke and he was and is not an object for any of you to argue about. I supposedly "attacked" Bossy because she was/is arragant, rude and just plain crude and advocates the death of millions of unborn just because they are not convenient. My "attacking" her was a way to add a little spice in my life at a time of the year when I struggle a little. Attacking is not an accurate word, goading fits better and actually she is pretty easy to goad and fun too. I do feel bad that I had fun goading her as I really don't advocate "hurting" another eventhough she seems to thrive on hurting others with her name calling and nasty comments and if you are unborn; killing you.
Slander on all!

reply from: sweet

Hey feel free to say anything you wish. Lukesmom was attacked period.
Pro-informed what you say about the information that is given out in PP clinics is true. They do not want women to know the truth. Why do you think they do not want sonograms done in their offices?
The PP clinic I went to did NOT TELL ME ANYTHING. I saw no video and talked to no counselor. They took my money, I sat in line and waited my turn. Its amazing how quiet those abortion mills are however. You could hear a pin drop and I think there were probably over twenty some woman in various stages waiting to kill. No one talks. I mean what would we talk about really? "Hey how old is the baby your killing?"
Yes someone has a conscience and feels bad about what she did and someone could care less. Killing for her is a positive experience. How sad.
Well itsn't that a guy you have by your name? LOL Troll like behavior? And what is yours? What is easy to understand is your pro-death views and how you hail abortion as something that is nothing. That says a lot about a person, it says a lot about you and your lack of compassion for an innocent human being.
How the hell do you know what is common? No one will ever get the true story about what womae who have killed their unborn really feel, because THEY ARE TO SCARED and EMBARASSED TO TALK ABOUT IT. This is not coffee table discussion. Women who have been hurt physically and mentally by abortion wont always come forward. They suffer in silence. And if a doctor has injured them most the time its settled in court because they do not want their case made public. Millions of abortions are done each year.......to say that only a few token women feel bad in the end is ridiculous.i agree with you on that!

reply from: sweet

Someone has gotten on with her life and someone hasn't. Someone had a positive experience and someone had a negative one.
Both have gone on with their lives....and abortion is one of those experiences women change their position on over the years. Most women who had abortions and are now prolife spent a portion of their life as avid abortion supporters. I know I did, Proinformed did and Churchmouse did. I claimed that abortion was my right and marched about with my keep abortion legal sign...and I didn't admit to feeling uncomfortable about it or how much it hurt me. I thought I was some kind of neurotic freak and the only one who felt bad about something that was in my best interest. So I kind of shut off my feelings and supported the party line....and I gotta tell you, I regret misleading other people to think abortion could and would solve their problems.wow! well we need more people brave and with a real heart like you to speak up.

reply from: 4given

Okay. But outside of an internet forum, there are people that truly don't understand abortion. Ignoring the pro-aborts is convenient, but in reality I would rather see how far their demented thoughts take them.. seems to be endless in regard to the unborn.. Anyway, some are ignorant and truly need to understand abortion. Others are hardened and don't care about the woman or child killed. I am not here for either. I am apathetic to pro-aborts and their ramblings myself at times. I am here to learn from others who are active in the community, whether at the clinics or in prayer. I have a lot to learn. I have also learned from the pro-abort/choicers here, as there are variations on when they feel a mutilation is justified. I have learned from them not to be surprised by the depth of their depravity, or with those that have a semi-conscience in the matter- how necessary the "hard case" arguments are and the justifications given. Pity. Ideally, these arguments wouldn't exist, but until then, I will subject myself to the "barbaric" posts of the damaged and the confused. Lord knows I have been a combination of both- yet never wanted to take that out on an innocent life...

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

I feel no reason to encourage trolls to continue posting their pro-abortion lies on a site meant for those of us who are against this slaughter on innocent children.
They have pro-abort sites they can go to. They're only here to stir trouble.

reply from: CharlesD

Yes, they're annoying, but they help us to look at our arguments and clarify our position. They do serve a good purpose here. Plus, you never know if you might see some of them change. It has happened before and it could happen again.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

Very true.
The abolishionists were treated no differently as they campaigned to end slavery. The issue of personhood and human rights was at the forefront of their movement, and like us, they had to contend with a supreme court ruling that wasn't in their favor.
But all it took was for one President to overturn the supreme court and free millions of men and women from slavery - in spite of the unpopular statis of that decision.

reply from: lukesmom

I wonder if you ever learned to read. HIS name was Luke. He was a living, breathing human being, not an "it". I did have a failed pregnancy back in "97. My pregancy, once again, was a successful pregnancy as it resulted in a living child. Evidently frequent repetition is needed in this case.

reply from: scopia1982

To acknowledge his name would have to admit she possesed humanity and to acknowledge that Luke was a human being. Sadly pro aborts have to shed themselves of humanity and compassion. To rabidly support such a henious practice one cant possess and ounce of either.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Alright, that's it. You're on ignore for being a sicko, Xena. You're not even sane.

reply from: sweet

I wonder if you ever learned to read. HIS name was Luke. He was a living, breathing human being, not an "it". I did have a failed pregnancy back in "97. My pregancy, once again, was a successful pregnancy as it resulted in a living child. Evidently frequent repetition is needed in this case.
Well if it was so successful where is your child now?
Whatever - "luke" "it" - who cares, this is a waste of a discussion.
And to all those who think I am being overly harsh: she is as bad as me (if not worse). But then of course I am pro-choice, so you'll complain regardless...that was totally uncalled for...exactly what is your motive? what purpose do you have?
*feels sad*

reply from: CharlesD

Should it surprise when someone who doesn't respect the rights of the unborn says something disrespectful? It's right in character.

reply from: lukesmom

I wonder if you ever learned to read. HIS name was Luke. He was a living, breathing human being, not an "it". I did have a failed pregnancy back in "97. My pregancy, once again, was a successful pregnancy as it resulted in a living child. Evidently frequent repetition is needed in this case.
Well if it was so successful where is your child now?
Whatever - "luke" "it" - who cares, this is a waste of a discussion.
And to all those who think I am being overly harsh: she is as bad as me (if not worse). But then of course I am pro-choice, so you'll complain regardless...
Brother, what a case! LOL. If a born child is a month old and dies, where does he/she go? Most likely the same place my child is.
You are right, any "discussion" with a low life like you is a waste of time.
I do understand you personally as a proabort has to dehumanize unborn children, humans with deformities and disabled people as "its", "zefs" and "failed pregnancies" to be able to live with the horrors you personally condone. Sad state of mind. I have a problem with calling "people" like you human as you seem to lack the basic trait of humanity.

reply from: scopia1982

LM I agree with you 110%. Xena is obviously a sociopath. Socipaths can not feel empathy , or any emotions. They care only about themselves and lack the the capicity to care about others. Usually, they are too far gone for human help.

reply from: lukesmom

I wonder if you ever learned to read. HIS name was Luke. He was a living, breathing human being, not an "it". I did have a failed pregnancy back in "97. My pregancy, once again, was a successful pregnancy as it resulted in a living child. Evidently frequent repetition is needed in this case.
Well if it was so successful where is your child now?
Whatever - "luke" "it" - who cares, this is a waste of a discussion.
And to all those who think I am being overly harsh: she is as bad as me (if not worse). But then of course I am pro-choice, so you'll complain regardless...that was totally uncalled for...exactly what is your motive? what purpose do you have?
*feels sad*
Don't feel sad Sweet. In the grand scheme of things here, xena's opinions and comments don't really matter.

reply from: scopia1982

Actually, I care about other people very much (it is foolish to throw words around - you clearly don't know their meaning), but I'm not going to get all emotionally caught up on a forum where people can say whatever they want - be it true or not.
Then maybe you should take a look back and see what kind of message you convey by the nature and wording of your posts. You sound like a sociopath, devoid of any compassion and humanity.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

Just put the pro-abort trolls on your ignore list. They don't deserve an audience to promote their own bloodthirsty agenda. Let them go do that on a pro-abort forum somewhere else.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I do actually have Xena on ignore now for her comments about LukesMom's child.

reply from: lukesmom

When you agree to allow ALL unborn children life, then I'll treat you like you want to be treated.
Truthfully, I think I have been quite patient with you given some of your comments here.

reply from: 4given

You derranged,spiteful and depraved waste of space. There is one thing that I have come to realize, and that is to be cautious how you judge others. I suspect you will be met with further unhappiness, and likely will not ever experience the intense pain and joy that comes from motherhood. You will never be a fraction of the woman Sue is. I pity you. You are disgusting.

reply from: scopia1982

You derranged,spiteful and depraved waste of space. There is one thing that I have come to realize, and that is to be cautious how you judge others. I suspect you will be met with further unhappiness, and likely will not ever experience the intense pain and joy that comes from motherhood. You will never be a fraction of the woman Sue is. I pity you. You are disgusting.
4given such people are not worth my pity. I am glad you have more compassion for these people than I do.

reply from: 4given

In fleeting moments of time I do. It is grievous to me that one could be so callous. They will be judged and they will be awakened to the reality of who they are and what they support. There have been so many opportunities here to understand why abortion is not and should not ever be a consideration or choice. To have the facts and still reject the blood-stained bottom line.. Pitiful.

reply from: yoda

Compassion and pity are wonderful emotions. What would this world be without them?
On the other hand, having your priorities in order is a good thing, too. My first priority for compassion and pity are the babies, not for those who seek to destroy them.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I think it's ignorant and pathetic that anyone would attack LukesMom for her CHOICE to give birth to her son.
KNOCK IT OFF, moron.

reply from: 4given

It is actually quite disappointing to me xena. You had your moments here where you were reasonable and willing to grow and learn. I can not see how you could or would regress so readily. How can you honestly defend such ill-regard and disrespect, not only to a grieving mother and those faced with similar *choices* and challenges, but to the unborn in general? Stop making this about you. Can you for a moment consider what it must be like to be faced with an adverse situation? Have you considered abortion from the unborn POV?

reply from: churchmouse

Well you notice when the heat got turned up Momma and xena decide to leave and run.

reply from: churchmouse

I have never not answered your questions. NEVER.
Its you that runs.

reply from: churchmouse

ahhhhhhhhh and no answer or question

reply from: churchmouse

And still no questions..........

reply from: BossMomma

Yeah, sorry I couldn't hang after surgery and all.


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics