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is it legal?

is it legal?

by: Girl4Life

my assistant is moving, and i need to hire another. is it legal if i find out my new assistant believes abortion to fire them? its a job where you need to trust them alot, i am a model and i have to travel and be with them alot. but i cant trust someone who believes in killing inocents. how can they work for me in a job that requirs trust?

reply from: Witness

I don't know if it's legal, but you don't have to let anyone know it's the reason.

reply from: cracrat

I don't know about the US, but certainly here (UK) if you tried that you'd find yourself in front of an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal before the assistant had even cleared their desk. You couldn't even ask in the interview since it is not pertinant to the job you're employing them for, so therefore illegal to ask.

reply from: Girl4Life

I don't know about the US, but certainly here (UK) if you tried that you'd find yourself in front of an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal before the assistant had even cleared their desk. You couldn't even ask in the interview since it is not pertinant to the job you're employing them for, so therefore illegal to ask.
what if i ask "do you think a person should be responsible and do the right thing at all times. for instance if you were carrying my chanel bag and decided you didnt want to anymore and got rid of it that would be considered bad?" and if they say yes and i find out that was a lie. then i cant get in trouble for firing someone for lying in an interview.

reply from: cracrat

I don't know about the US, but certainly here (UK) if you tried that you'd find yourself in front of an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal before the assistant had even cleared their desk. You couldn't even ask in the interview since it is not pertinant to the job you're employing them for, so therefore illegal to ask.
what if i ask "do you think a person should be responsible and do the right thing at all times. for instance if you were carrying my chanel bag and decided you didnt want to anymore and got rid of it that would be considered bad?" and if they say yes and i find out that was a lie. then i cant get in trouble for firing someone for lying in an interview.
Oh of course, and if they misrepresent themselves on their CV you could probably fire them for that too. But I'm saying that, here at least, you can't ask someone "Are you pro-life or pro-choice?" in an interview since it has nothing to do with the job. And it's also not the kind of thing you can infer from answers to other questions.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It is absolutely NOT legal. You cannot fire someone based on beliefs, race, gender or sexuality. You would be committing a crime. Also, "a lot" is two words. That's just a pet peeve of mine.
Furthermore, being pro-choice does not mean that the person is pro-abortion. Being pro-choice, in the simplest sense, means that you believe the mother has choices, three choices to be exact. She can choose to keep the child, adopt it out, or abort it. Only one of those three options involves the "death of innocents". Being pro-choice does not mean the person has ever aborted, and it does not mean they will. I know many people who are pro-choice for others, and pro-life for themselves. Being pro-choice is being pro-CHOICE, not pro-death.

reply from: ChristianLott2

g4l,
Why don't you just hire a friend who you already know is pro life?

reply from: KaylieBee

I would think she would like someone who is qualified for the job.

reply from: ChristianLott2

ok, take the top five of your interviewees out for drinks and let them talk it up. Sooner or later they'll talk politics. Just let them talk. Then pick the smartest one.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Spiny, you are the supermodel of a retard.

reply from: KaylieBee

CL2, are you a middle schooler? Didn't anyone ever teach you that 'retard' is not a word used in civilized conversation?
I doubt your Goddess Palin would be happy if she heard you use that word.

reply from: ChristianLott2

you are the one calling people stupid. you are the one who needs a lesson in manners.

reply from: KaylieBee

You do understand the concept that different words have different weights, right?

reply from: ChristianLott2

ok, you're a stupid retard. everything balanced for you now?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

We just had a discussion about the r-word ChristianLott. You're not acting very christian at all. Jesus would not walk around and call people retards.

reply from: KaylieBee

You're such a child, CL2. I'm 17 and I spend my days doing trigonometry and analyzing the words of Ernest Hemingway, and you sit around calling people 'retards'.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Nor would he want people to use the word stupid but you didn't call kb on that one did you?
Jesus did call people dogs and snakes though, so whatever missus jeezus.

reply from: ChristianLott2

You're such a child, CL2. I'm 17 and I spend my days doing trigonometry and analyzing the words of Ernest Hemingway, and you sit around calling people 'retards'.
You started with calling g4l stupid. Now you're a stupid hypocrite, retard.
You need to get back to your studying and stop calling people names.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Nah, what CL2 means is that "retards" (like Trig Palin) are lesser beings.
That's why it's OK to abort them before birth.
I didn't call Trig a tard, you just did wise guy.
As for abortion - I am 100% pro life and you know this. Insinuating that I am anything else is obviously plain smear.
You belong with all the other animals in a zoo.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

People who work in human resources or are lawyers in the employment field can tell you. Why ask such questions of unqualified people? Are you doing some research for a paper on how far abortion beliefs spill over into other aspects of life, such as equal opportunity employment?

reply from: sheri

It depends to some degree what state you are in, however i am in a very liberal state so i cant imagine it waivering too much unless maybe your from CA, you can fire someone for just about any reason except discriminatory stuff. If you hire a qualified worker and find out shes a proabort you can fire her without cause and are under no obligation to give her a reason. Just remember "loose lips sink ships".

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yet I was not calling Trig a tard, you were.
...
kb started with 'stupid' and you started with the 'supermodel/astronaut/neurosurgeon' slur.
I mean, how exactly is this NOT "[making] up a cruel slur about them and fling it at message board strangers "
and
and
You both belong in a zoo.
Keep acting like you don't get it, but remember:
- Moral indignation is envy with a halo -

reply from: ChristianLott2

Moral indignation is envy with a halo

reply from: Draiocht

I'm Marvin the Martian. I'll soon explode your planet. Seriously.

reply from: Draiocht

Oh, but earthling, it isn't that easy.
Now excuse me while I congratulate myself with a corny voice.
Oh yes, and humans suck.

reply from: nancyu

Just do it. Ask the question. It's the right thing to do.

reply from: KaylieBee

Lol, you want her to get sued, don't you?
Does anyone actually believe she's a model?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Nor would he want people to use the word stupid but you didn't call kb on that one did you?
Jesus did call people dogs and snakes though, so whatever missus jeezus.
Huh? I don't recall her saying that, and if she did, I do believe she was saying an action or statement was stupid, not an actual person. Trying to fire someone for being pro-choice IS stupid, because it's against the law! That doesn't mean the OP is stupid, just that her action is stupid.

reply from: KaylieBee

I think not knowing laws which are meant to protect your own rights is pretty stupid. I mean, let's pretend she really is a model(And I don't mean the sort of 'model' who owns a geocities site and takes her own pictures, I mean a legitimate fashion model), and a certain company refuses to work with her anymore (fires her) because she is pro-life. Since clearly she didn't know her rights (since she didn't know if it was legal or not to fire someone for being pro-choice) she would have went on her way without ever realizing that her rights were violated.
Laws exist to protect your rights. Not understanding those laws is unintelligent.
Oh, and how would telling me that "Jesus would not walk around and call people stupid," have effected me at all? Not Christian, remember?

reply from: yoda

What "law"?
In case you haven't noticed, the position you take on abortion does not put you in a "protected class", like gender and race do.
Unless there is a union contract involved, such people can be fired for no reason at all. Like when Sarah fired her public safety commissioner, for example.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

F*** it. Go for it. Settle all our disagreements and solve all the problems humanity faces in one fell swoop. That's the only way it's ever going to happen, since the majority of the human population are morons...
Are you talking to that Looney Tunes character with the giant ray gun that Bugs Bunny thwarted from destroying the earth?
I see the tremendous amount of time and research you put into your responses. You even dug around on the web for equal opportunity employment laws that you post later in this thread. Your attitude is highly overconfident, heck, you could even be wrong. Maybe you should respect some of the ideas, positions and opinions of some of those you call morons.

reply from: ChristianLott2

you're stuck up cp. this is obvious to many of us. you need to chill out and stop acting like such a pompous prig. every now and then you have a good point. do us a favor and wait for those times before you post. thanks.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Nor would he want people to use the word stupid but you didn't call kb on that one did you?
Jesus did call people dogs and snakes though, so whatever missus jeezus.
Huh? I don't recall her saying that, and if she did, I do believe she was saying an action or statement was stupid, not an actual person. Trying to fire someone for being pro-choice IS stupid, because it's against the law! That doesn't mean the OP is stupid, just that her action is stupid.
kb said:
first page of the SO SICK OF THIS!!!!!!!! thread.
try to keep up.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What "law"?
The laws of disclosure clearly state that you cannot refuse to hire OR fire someone based off of beliefs (like religion, or being pro-choice), sexuality, gender or age.
And what about age? What about religion? NONE of those things are acceptable reasons to fire someone. Being pro-choice is having a belief and I'm sorry, but it's not going to affect how someone does their job.
You can fire someone for "no reason" sure, and this young lady could fire her assistant and simply state no reason. But if someone asked, she could not say "because the person was pro-choice" because then she could legally be accused of discrimination.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Exactly! Good points I'm actually shocked how many people didn't know about these laws! I think this thread was a good thing!!!

reply from: yoda

Although I have often opined that being proabortion IS a religion, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have any official recognition as such, and therefore a belief in abortion right would NOT be protected by anti discrimination laws in any way, shape or form.
Do you really think that being prochoice is a "religion"?

reply from: KaylieBee

So Yoda, if you got fired (I assume you have a real job, and don't just spend every day holding pictures of aborted fetuses) for being pro-life, you wouldn't be extremely angry, or feel as if your rights were violated?

reply from: yoda

Kay, let me ask you a theoretical question: In YOUR opinion, do feelings of anger and resentment constitute a legal basis for a lawsuit?
I'm retired after 35 years with the same company, and I don't hold photos of aborted babies. I use the IAAP image, which is a photo of a healthy fetus.

reply from: KaylieBee

I would think being fired because of something which in no way affects how I do my job, and actually has nothing to do with it is deserving of a law suit, yes.
Honestly, Yoda, people have sued over crazier things, and won.

reply from: yoda

Kay, please slow down and read this slowly.....
I didn't ask if it would be "deserving".
I asked if you thought it would constitute a LEGAL BASIS for a lawsuit.
Do you?

reply from: KaylieBee

Exactly what vexing said.

reply from: ChristianLott2

?
Yes, that about sums up your overall level of understanding; hence your jealousy.
understanding of what?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Why conduct a job interview if you're not attempting to judge and what is judgment but discrimination?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I agree with Kaylie and Vexing.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Yet to this employer it has 100% relevance.

reply from: ChristianLott2

your ambiguity is revolting.

reply from: ChristianLott2

You need to be able to LIKE your employee, don't you. It's simply a personality conflict that touches the political.
People get hired and fired over political beliefs all the time.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Stop flirting, I told you I'm not into gay guys.

reply from: ChristianLott2

I honestly don't know or care what the law says about this. It's absolutely common for people all over the world to be hired and fired for their *political beliefs*.
How else would every administrative state job in the US be held entirely by democrats?

reply from: ChristianLott2

All politicians are hired and fired based on their political beliefs. Is that discrimination?
You can elect a president for political beliefs but you can't hire someone who you'll be working with 24/7 for theirs. That's asinine.
If we can't hire and fire based on political and ideological conviction, there is no government. And if it's okay to hire and fire politicians for their political views, why should other employees have a separate set of rules? If it's wrong here, why isn't it wrong over there?
It was already mentioned that corporate and state jobs naturally make their own rules in this regard, pandering to whichever class of people suits them under their current administration. A private employer like this young woman has (or should have) even more leeway to select who she can hire and for what reasons.
Say you answer the job ad and she says she doesn't feel comfortable with a guy being her personal assistant. Are you going to sue for discrimination or are you just going to realize not everyone sees you the same way you see yourself and THAT'S OK?

reply from: KaylieBee

Vex, you're the easy one. Stop responding to this troll. It doesn't make you look any more intelligent.

reply from: KaylieBee

...That sort of thing is actually a huge fantasy of mine! So I gladly accept your offer.

reply from: ChristianLott2

he doesn't like girls.

reply from: KaylieBee

Nor is she really my type. I'd prefer a thai lady boy...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Lol XD They're the classic ones as far as the internet is concerned.

reply from: KaylieBee

Why are you loling, I'm being serious! If I were rich and single and immune to STDs, and get myself over to bangkok and pay a horde of lady boys of completely and utterly dominate me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Tee hee XD Sounds like fun! I suppose we all have our fantasies; mine's just more impossible than most, since it is to be a male and have lovely gay sex. Except that I'm a straight woman with no desire to change my gender. heh.

reply from: KaylieBee

Well, my most impossible fantasy is to do The Doctor in his TARDIS. But I'd settle for David Tennant in character.
...No wait.
Most impossible fantasy is sex with alien/monsters/demons.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Sqwee!!! I'd do Dr. House XD

reply from: KaylieBee

Not that doctor. =( Mine is English.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, THE Doctor is also quite hot XD Wait, which one? The most recent one?
Inara's hot! Hm... Who else do I like?

reply from: KaylieBee

I have a thing for asians regardless. >>

reply from: KaylieBee

Says who? I tend to be more attracted to boys, but my last ex was a girl.
That's really hot.

reply from: KaylieBee

No, not as hot.
ilu vexy.

reply from: yoda

I don't read what vexing says. Have you no answer of your own?

reply from: KaylieBee

I don't read what vexing says. Have you no answer of your own?
Lol, if you don't read what she says, how come you argue with her half the time?

reply from: yoda

I don't.
I take it you have no answer of your own, so I will consider you as having admitted your error.

reply from: KaylieBee

'It's discrimination.'

reply from: yoda

Still refusing to answer the question, I see.
Refusing to run around with people who are shorter than you is also discrimination, but is it a basis for a lawsuit?
Oh wait, I know, you'll change the subject again.... proaborts always do that.

reply from: KaylieBee

Last I checked the law have nothing to do with who you befriend, but it does have something to do with employment. Hence why there are so many laws related to workplace, and laws which protect you from losing/not getting a job based on certain things, political beliefs included, if that job does not relate to politics.

reply from: yoda

No, there is no such law.
You are belching in the wind now. No such law exists to protect you against discrimination for your "political beliefs".
Only with a union contract or civil service status are you protected against arbitrarily being fired for no reason, or for reasons having nothing to do with job performance.
Everyone else is on their own, unless they can prove they were fired over something that is in a protected status. And that does not include political beliefs.
You're simply wrong.

reply from: KaylieBee

Baaaaw, all countries have the same set of laws.

reply from: yoda

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!
THAT'S HILARIOUS!!!!
THANKS FOR THE LAUGH!!!!!!

reply from: KaylieBee

Your shift and exclamation mark keys seem to be sticking.

reply from: Cecilia

There are state laws, not federal, that prohibit discrimination for "creed" which is any statement or system of belief, principles or opinions, suchas North Carolina, California, and New York.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

reply from: yoda

Got any links?
I'd love to see them, and even more than that....... I'd love to see a case that had been brought to court where an employer ADMITTED that he fired someone for such a reason.....
Do you really think employers are that STUPID? Hey, they don't have to even give a reason to fire a non-union employee.... didn't you know that?

reply from: Cecilia

Got any links?
I'd love to see them, and even more than that....... I'd love to see a case that had been brought to court where an employer ADMITTED that he fired someone for such a reason.....
Do you really think employers are that STUPID? Hey, they don't have to even give a reason to fire a non-union employee.... didn't you know that?
Do your own research; I've done mine.

reply from: yoda

I have. My research turned up NO laws. Game, set, match.

reply from: yoda

It would not be actionable in a court of law, IMHO.
Most "discrimination" falls outside of the realm of legal remedy.


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