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Why Aborted Baby Pictures are Used

by: yoda

"On May 12, 2008, Bill Boyer and Kathy Worthy offered some leaflets to a group of women who had just delivered a young girl to an abortion mill in Memphis. The women glanced casually at the fliers, with no visible effect. But when Bill showed her pictures of aborted babies (supplied by CBR), these women became quite animated. They quickly took the pictures into the clinic and retrieved the young mother. This was one of two saved by pictuers on that day.
A week later, Bill spoke with another woman on her way into the same clinic. Her pregnancy was 11 weeks along. She accepted the literatur Bill offered, but used it to fan herself as she incher way towards the clinic entrance. But when Bill showed her pictures of an 11-week abortion, she turned around, walked back to her car, waved at Bill, and smiled at him as she drofe away. To God be the glory, and thank you for doing your part".
(From Vol. 9, No. 7, the August Newsletter of the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform, Southeast Region.)

reply from: sheri

A picture is worth a thousand words!

reply from: Bgraphics

Its funny if you miss spelled a word but got the message right. Whats really funny is that they was laughing in denial. And whats sad they just really could care less for innocent life and your message.

reply from: Witness

I have had the honor of being on-site many times to see the effect of aborted baby pictures on prospective victims. While, certainly, no one likes looking at them, they can be extremely effective in saving lives. I remember one mother stared at them for a long time while muttering, 'I had no idea there'd be so much blood." She accepted a free baby blanket and left determined to protect the child growing within her. Thank you, Yodavater, for sharing.

reply from: yoda

This is a subject about which I'm quite passionate and determined. I have seen the photos have an immediate impact, just as mentioned in the OP. I cannot for the life of me understand why any prolifer would put their comfort and convenience over the effect these photos have in saving babies.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Just wait until she bleeds for several weeks after the birth of her child. SURPRISE!! She'll be needing that blanket to stuff between her legs when she walks out of the hospital.

reply from: nsanford

I'm not against using aborted baby pics, per se. It's a tool of persuasion, just like the leaflets you guys hand out.
But I find it somehow cruel and heartless to show this to a person who is most likely young, and scared. And if it doesn't work, you've upset them for nothing.
Wouldn't it be better to ask them beforehand, or at least ask?

reply from: Witness

Actually, I carry my own art -- which is more Anne Geddes in style -- see www.children-of-the-heart.net/art-issues. However, the argument for the aborted pictures is strong for many reasons. As far as the innocent go, most mothers do not bring their born children with them when they go for an abortion. At any rate one can't help wonder exactly what they tell the children bring as far as why they are at the abortuary in the first place. "It's all right, honey, we've just come to kill your brother/sister?"
As far as pro-life children, the reality is most are already aware that the children are being killed. Mine, for instance, just came up and asked me what those children did to deserve to die, and, then got very angry at the abortionist. They knew just how close they came to the same fate. By this I mean it is not uncommon for born children to identify with the dead babies in the photos as having been very recently just as expendable.
If we ask permission to do anything to save the children, you can be most assured it would be denied.

reply from: Witness

RiverMoonLady, when all else fails say something really disgusting? If that's all you got, don't expect me to waste my time.

reply from: Jameberlin

Just wait until she bleeds for several weeks after the birth of her child. SURPRISE!! She'll be needing that blanket to stuff between her legs when she walks out of the hospital.
At least it's her own blood, and not her baby's.
By the way, women going off of birth control often bleed heavily and for extended periods of time too.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

My doctor and his staff conveniently forgot to inform me that, after childbirth, bleeding is extensive and lasts for weeks. It was a pretty nasty surprise.
When I stopped using birth control pills, I became pregnant in 2 weeks and never bled at all until my son's birth.
So, Witness, what is so disgusting about dripping blood from between your legs for weeks after surgical childbirth? Those "aborted baby" photos are meant to invoke disgust and fear, are they not? What is the freaking difference?

reply from: Jameberlin

Wow, that's horrible that they didn't tell you about it. I seriously underestimated the crappiness of recovery after child birth... But it was nothing compared to the embarrassment of pissing myself all over the floor of the bathroom because i was still numb from the epidural... Nor did it compare to the fact that my gyn didn't tell me depo-provera causes irreversible bone loss if used for more than a year, or that when you go off it, it can take 18 months for fertility to return, and it causes breast tenderness, loss of sex drive, migraines, prolonged breakthrough bleeding, heavy, heavy clotting when your period finally does return... Oh god, the side effects of coming off depo are terrible. I never would have gone on it if i knew (i've been off it since march, and i've had as many bleeding days as dry since then)
I got pregnant shortly coming off the pill, too (which caused horrible depression/loss of sex drive/nausea), without a period in between... I conceived 22 days after the first day of my last period... The doctors kept telling me i was 3 weeks late... But i've yet to meet another person who ever gave birth to a 6lb 11oz, 20" baby three weeks late.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

And some people think doctors limit the amount of information a patient is given before an abortion!
I have had several surgeries for which the aftereffects were not explained to me before the surgery. They seem to like waiting until you are coming out of the anesthetic fog, lol. This just happened 2 weeks ago - I had rotor cuff repair and arthroscopy by a surgeon who KNEW I planned to go back to work almost immediately. He "forgot" to tell me I wouldn't be allowed to drive for 2 weeks afterward, so I "forgot" to listen to him and drove the next day.

reply from: Jameberlin

Oh that's terrible!
I think abortion providers are probably just as negligent in providing full information as any other doctors/surgeons are... Which is why i support informed consent laws explaining exactly physical and emotional risks following any type of medical procedure.

reply from: yoda

Exactly right. And that applies to both asking the proaborts, and the "squeemish" prolifers who take their side.

reply from: yoda

I'm not speaking for Witness, but I will tell you that the point of showing the aborted baby pics is to save unborn lives. What would be the point of your little rant?

reply from: yoda

Photos of aborted babies are not used to arouse sexual desires, didn't you know that?
And of course you think it's disgraceful to show the pictures, but then again you think it's perfectly okay to actually kill little tiny (unborn) children, don't you?
So you're okay with killing the babies, just not okay with showing any kids the results of those killing?
Keeping them in the dark, so they won't know what you've done after your next abortion? Or a relative's or friends abortion? You really don't want them to have a clue about what abortion does, do you?

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I'm not speaking for Witness, but I will tell you that the point of showing the aborted baby pics is to save unborn lives. What would be the point of your little rant?
I simply wanted to prove that the lack of full disclosure is not limited to doctors performing abortions, but is also common among MANY physicians and surgeons.
BTW, I'm definitely in favor of having every patient undergoing ANY test or ANY surgery or ANY medical procedure being given complete instructions about the procedure, its possible side effects/aftereffects, its dangers, etc. BEFORE the procedure and when the patient is not under the influence of any medication. And the patient must sign a written explanation (not just the consent form) in order for the test or procedure to occur.
Who knows that a vasectomy can cause a man's testicles to swell to the size of large oranges??? Are all surgical patients (including those having dental procedures) aware that ANY type of anesthesia carries the possibility of death? Do you know that you can contract deadly infections simply by visiting someone in the hospital? I could go on and on.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

And oh my, the possible complications of pregnancy and childbirth make up quite a long list - but how many OBs hand out that information?
Is a woman told BEFORE she gets pregnant - or even when her pregnancy is confirmed - that it can kill her? Is she informed about gestational diabetes, toxemia, eclampsia, ectopic pregnancy, miscarriage, placenta previa, conjoined twins, multiple births, placental abruption, bleeding, cervical incompetence, C-section delivery, stillbirth, congenital deformities, amniotic fluid problems, cerebral palsy, anencephaly, spina bifida, hydrocephaly, cystic fibrosis, heart defects and a host of other potential dangers, some life-threatening or even fatal, to the mother, the fetus or both?
Is she warned about the physical and mental changes that occur during and after pregnancy? Does anyone warn her about the effects of hormones on her physical and mental health? Is postpartum depression explained in detail?
Most women learn about the subjects I listed by READING (books, pamphlets, Internet sites, etc.) - the same way women are able to learn all about abortion BEFORE they make the decision whether or not to have one.

reply from: Witness

That was exactly my point, Yodavater. RiverMoonLady's "rant" appears to me to be nothing more than the last resort of someone without a valid or even reasonable defense. Literally, when she realized she couldn't counter the affect of the blanket, she offered something intended to disgust and alienate instead. I'm sure she hoped we would all run away and hide from her vulgarity or that she would be able to draw us into some rediculous argument for argument's sake. No sale, RiverMoonLady. Life is too short to waste it on those obviously not interested in the truth.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

A brief paragraph is a "rant?"
Normal body functions are "disgusting?"
You must be very young, easily bored and unaccustomed to medical conditions. Don't worry, you'll get older, read better, become more interested in the world and (of necessity) become more familiar with medicine as you age.

reply from: yoda

An excellent summary. I like your style!
GO SARAH, GO!!

reply from: sheri

Even if child birth caused as many bad, phsysical side effects as abortion does, you would still have to consider the mental carnage killing a baby has on a woman. Only a homicidal maniac is happy to kill one of their own babies.

reply from: BossMomma

Photos of aborted babies are not used to arouse sexual desires, didn't you know that?
And of course you think it's disgraceful to show the pictures, but then again you think it's perfectly okay to actually kill little tiny (unborn) children, don't you?
So you're okay with killing the babies, just not okay with showing any kids the results of those killing?
Keeping them in the dark, so they won't know what you've done after your next abortion? Or a relative's or friends abortion? You really don't want them to have a clue about what abortion does, do you?
If someone showed your small child a picture of a naked woman against your will you'd get pissed and call it immoral. I'd feel the same way if someone showed my child a picture of an aborted fetus.

reply from: nancyu

I'm not speaking for Witness, but I will tell you that the point of showing the aborted baby pics is to save unborn lives. What would be the point of your little rant?
Silly yoda, how can a clump of tissue have a point?

reply from: BossMomma

But what I think is funny is how pro-lifers think that every woman entering a planned parenthood building is going for an abortion. I had to wade through some idiotic protest when I was 6 weeks along with my son to seek prenatal care, vitamins and information because I had no insurence and no idea where else to go. I had religious morons screaming at me not to kill my baby and*****and I was like....wtf? The signs were clearly fake images, some held red paint splattered baby dolls and, to top it off some even had their young children out in the blazing triple digit heat. Lovely people, really.

reply from: sweet

But what I think is funny is how pro-lifers think that every woman entering a planned parenthood building is going for an abortion. I had to wade through some idiotic protest when I was 6 weeks along with my son to seek prenatal care, vitamins and information because I had no insurence and no idea where else to go. I had religious morons screaming at me not to kill my baby and*****and I was like....wtf? The signs were clearly fake images, some held red paint splattered baby dolls and, to top it off some even had their young children out in the blazing triple digit heat. Lovely people, really.
i encountered similar circumstances when i was pregnant, however i was overjoyed to see the big photos of the true horror...i congratulated the protesters...it takes alot to stand there 'in the line of fire'and show the truth...oh are you having a boy?

reply from: BossMomma

But what I think is funny is how pro-lifers think that every woman entering a planned parenthood building is going for an abortion. I had to wade through some idiotic protest when I was 6 weeks along with my son to seek prenatal care, vitamins and information because I had no insurence and no idea where else to go. I had religious morons screaming at me not to kill my baby and*****and I was like....wtf? The signs were clearly fake images, some held red paint splattered baby dolls and, to top it off some even had their young children out in the blazing triple digit heat. Lovely people, really.
i encountered similar circumstances when i was pregnant, however i was overjoyed to see the big photos of the true horror...i congratulated the protesters...it takes alot to stand there 'in the line of fire'and show the truth...oh are you having a boy?
I'll know on the 17th when I get my ultrasound, currently I'm only 18 weeks along. I'm kinda hoping for another boy as this will be my last pregnancy before I get my tubes tied. This pregnancy has become agonizing, my sciatica has become so bad that I had to take maternity leave early because the pain kept me from doing my job.

reply from: BossMomma

Photos of aborted babies are not used to arouse sexual desires, didn't you know that?
And of course you think it's disgraceful to show the pictures, but then again you think it's perfectly okay to actually kill little tiny (unborn) children, don't you?
So you're okay with killing the babies, just not okay with showing any kids the results of those killing?
Keeping them in the dark, so they won't know what you've done after your next abortion? Or a relative's or friends abortion? You really don't want them to have a clue about what abortion does, do you?
If someone showed your small child a picture of a naked woman against your will you'd get pissed and call it immoral. I'd feel the same way if someone showed my child a picture of an aborted fetus.
Ah, but it would not necessarily be illegal to show a child a picture of an aborted fetus. I thought this was all about legality for you? Aren't you constantly objecting to discussion of individual morality?
I have an obligation to bring my children up, when someone thrusts their beliefs upon me or my family I have a problem with it, it's all about keeping your individual morality out of other peoples lives.

reply from: BossMomma

And yet you hypocritically support laws which necessarily involve doing just that. Individual morality combines to make societal morality, which is the basis for most, if not all law. Your own "individual morality" is the basis for your objections to "imposing" it on others. You assert that it is "wrong" to do so, a "moral" judgment...You contradict the principle you espouse, not only by supporting other laws that necessarily involve such "impositions," but also in your willingness to "impose" your "individual morality" on others by opposing prohibition of legal abortion on demand. Ironic, but I don't honestly expect you to appreciate the irony...
How do I impose my beliefs on others? Does having a personal opinion "impose" beliefs? I neither support nor oppose abortion laws I simply accept that they exist. Abortion is really neither here nor there as I would not abort. What the next woman does with her pregnancy is none of my affair. I'm no hypocrit, you are an imbecile.

reply from: BossMomma

And yet you hypocritically support laws which necessarily involve doing just that. Individual morality combines to make societal morality, which is the basis for most, if not all law. Your own "individual morality" is the basis for your objections to "imposing" it on others. You assert that it is "wrong" to do so, a "moral" judgment...You contradict the principle you espouse, not only by supporting other laws that necessarily involve such "impositions," but also in your willingness to "impose" your "individual morality" on others by opposing prohibition of legal abortion on demand. Ironic, but I don't honestly expect you to appreciate the irony...
How do I impose my beliefs on others? Does having a personal opinion "impose" beliefs? I neither support nor oppose abortion laws I simply accept that they exist. Abortion is really neither here nor there as I would not abort. What the next woman does with her pregnancy is none of my affair. I'm no hypocrit, you are an imbecile.
Arguing in support of legal abortion on demand does not imply "support" in your view?
Not on an internet message forum where everyone is just voicing there opinion. I support neither pro-life nor pro-choice organizations, don't vote this way or that, I just voice my opinion here for fun, debate is kind of a hobby.

reply from: sheri

I have never spoken to a woman who was happy she "had to have an abortion".
I've been at this for a while and i have never had a woman describe the abortion like a tooth extraction. Ironicaly we usually hear "I had no choice".
I would be very afraid to hear a woman speak of doing away with her child in glowing terms, and i would consider them manical.

reply from: BossMomma

Ok, then go against the law, see where it gets you. I agree that a woman's right to gestate or abort is just, pregnancy is not always a breeze, mine has been an ongoing series of painful complications that I choose to endure to bring my baby to birth, however I would not insist that another woman endure this pain unwillingly. I support a woman's right to choose, and those choices extend far beyond the matter of abortion, all though that's the only one you obsess over. If agreeing with the law makes me a hypocrit then so be it, oddly, I'm not bothered by it.

reply from: sheri

Why do you refrain from voting?

reply from: BossMomma

Busy with other things really, I have no time to follow politics when I'm out with the kids all day, managing a household, spending time with my boyfriend, mom and, 2 sisters etc. Plus I do free babysitting for teen moms in my community, help our one crisis pregnancy center and work a full time job at night. I'm on maternity leave right now so I have a bit of time at night for myself.

reply from: BossMomma

Support is support, and you have clearly implied support of legal abortion as well as other laws that imply "imposition of morals" according to the standards you impose. I have never voted in my life, yet you have implied that I am attempting to "impose my beliefs" by opposing current abortion laws. You apply your principles inconsistently, and are indeed a hypocrite.
Whateva

reply from: BossMomma

Ok, then go against the law, see where it gets you. I agree that a woman's right to gestate or abort is just, pregnancy is not always a breeze, mine has been an ongoing series of painful complications that I choose to endure to bring my baby to birth, however I would not insist that another woman endure this pain unwillingly. I support a woman's right to choose, and those choices extend far beyond the matter of abortion, all though that's the only one you obsess over. If agreeing with the law makes me a hypocrit then so be it, oddly, I'm not bothered by it.
So if abortion were prohibited, you would no longer support legal abortion? You only approve because it is legal? It's not the fact that you feel the law is just that makes you a hypocrite, just so you know. By the way, the fact that you attempt to portray yourself as neutral on the issue, while proclaiming your support of abortion, is another illustration of hypocrisy...
If abortion were prohibited it wouldn't be "legal abortion" idiot. And yes I support it because it is a legal right, in the unlikely event that it were made illegal and the fetus were granted rights, I'd have no choice but to accept it.

reply from: BossMomma

When I'm actually out stopping a 26 week abortion, then your statement would be accurate, until then as usual your full of crap.

reply from: BossMomma

I'm quite sure I didn't say it would be. One could still conceivably support legal abortion ( believe it should be legal) even if it were not, couldn't they? I currently support abortion prohibition, yet abortion is legal, yes? Gee you're dense....

Laws can be changed, right? You would have no choice but to accept reality, with that I can agree, but you would not be obligated to approve of prohibition, and if you did not, you could certainly support legalization, right? I accept that abortion on demand is currently legal, but I do not accept that it should be, and I oppose the current laws and intend to do everything in my power to change them.
Don't make this harder than it has to be, BM. It's really not a diffucult thing to understand...
It really must be because you're struggling.

reply from: BossMomma

When I'm actually out stopping a 26 week abortion, then your statement would be accurate, until then as usual your full of crap.
Then you must also be "full of crap" when you insist that prohibition would constitute "imposing our beliefs on others," yes? None of us has any intention of attempting to physically prevent any woman from aborting. Either enacting laws prohibiting abortion (whether altogether, or just after 26 weeks) constitutes "imposing our beliefs on others" or it doesn't, right? So make up your mind which it is. Don't try to tell me one is such an "imposition," but not the other. If one is, the other must logically be as well. I'm not the one who declared that abortion prohibition would be such an imposition, and therefore not ethical, am I?
m'kay, does it really have to be this complicated? My boyfriend is reading over my shoulder wondering if you have a ***** learning disability. I'll let you fabricate your answers as they may please you (Goddess knows you will anyway) I'm off to bed.

reply from: sweet

He must think you're a freaking genius then, and is most likely on pretty much the same intellectual level as you. (scary thought, that....)
can we all just get along?

reply from: BossMomma

He must think you're a freaking genius then, and is most likely on pretty much the same intellectual level as you. (scary thought, that....)
can we all just get along?
Yeah sure, let me get my morning coffee first :yaaaawwwn: just waking up here.

reply from: BossMomma

He must think you're a freaking genius then, and is most likely on pretty much the same intellectual level as you. (scary thought, that....)
Not really, considering that he too is known for making good choices and being a productive member of society.

reply from: yoda

Hey, I'm not going to say that you failed to read the part of my post that you replied to, I'm just going to repost this part of it that you also reposted:
"Photos of aborted babies are not used to arouse sexual desires, didn't you know that? "

reply from: yoda

Hmmm........ I never thought of it that way....... and I guess I never will!

reply from: yoda

Yeah, that is "funny", because they don't think that, and you really suck as a mind reader.

reply from: yoda

Wow...... that's scary. You aren't aware that voicing your opinion is the main way people try to influence other people's opinions? That's frightening....

reply from: BossMomma

Hey, I'm not going to say that you failed to read the part of my post that you replied to, I'm just going to repost this part of it that you also reposted:
"Photos of aborted babies are not used to arouse sexual desires, didn't you know that? "
So every picture of a naked woman is meant to arouse sexual desire?

reply from: BossMomma

Yeah, that is "funny", because they don't think that, and you really suck as a mind reader.
Well when six men and two women are screaming "don't kill your baby!" at me and waving signs depicting aborted embryos and fetii, I could only assume.

reply from: BossMomma

Wow...... that's scary. You aren't aware that voicing your opinion is the main way people try to influence other people's opinions? That's frightening....
No, I recognize that humans are an intelligent species capable of forming individual opinions.

reply from: sheri

BM, I think the prolifers were probably just erring on the side of cation. What if you had been thinking about abortion? There is no way of knowing who will take PP up on the offer to have their child killed.

reply from: yoda

Who's talking about "every"? I'd venture to say that vast majority of them are for that purpose, however.
But my question had to do with the use of aborted baby pics.... do you really think they are pornographic?

reply from: yoda

You know what it means to "assume", don't you?
Not to mention, you generalized your statement to "how pro-lifers think", not how YOU ASSUME those six men and women were thinking.
Big difference.

reply from: Witness

Posted by: RiverMoonLadyA brief paragraph is a "rant?"
Normal body functions are "disgusting?"
You must be very young, easily bored and unaccustomed to medical conditions. Don't worry, you'll get older, read better, become more interested in the world and (of necessity) become more familiar with medicine as you age.
I just don't believe your comment was meant to do anything other than gross people out any more than I think every ugly thing that enters ours mind needs to be aired publicly. But thank you for the compliment. I'll tell my grandchildren you think I'm very young.

reply from: yoda

I don't get the relevance of your statement...... what is your point?
Are you claiming that humans are not influenced by other people's expression of their opinions, or what?

reply from: Witness

As an artist from an artistic family I can tell you many artists, though they might not admit it in public, consider their "nudes" to be a sexual statement. What comes out of our mouths, isn't always what we're really thinking.

reply from: BossMomma

I think it's very rude to assume, had I been considering abortion it would have been none of their business and a woman should be able to walk into an establishment without being harrassed by a mob of fanatics.

reply from: BossMomma

He must think you're a freaking genius then, and is most likely on pretty much the same intellectual level as you. (scary thought, that....)
Not really, considering that he too is known for making good choices and being a productive member of society.
If you say so, I guess, since your credibility is so good... LMAO!
Well, he too was smart enough to stay out of prison with the good choices he made. He's never been considered a danger to society, he wont have a criminal record to haunt him and, he's always been there for his family.

reply from: BossMomma

Who's talking about "every"? I'd venture to say that vast majority of them are for that purpose, however.
But my question had to do with the use of aborted baby pics.... do you really think they are pornographic?
I did a shakedown about six months ago and found some sex offender's hand drawn porn, what we call jack books. It depicted young children and babies performing sex acts. I don't doubt that some sicko might get sexual gratification out of an image of an aborted fetus, working around that element I can honestly say there are people who turn my stomach. Do I think they are pornographic? No, I think they are gross and meant to harrass and cause guilt.

reply from: BossMomma

I don't get the relevance of your statement...... what is your point?
Are you claiming that humans are not influenced by other people's expression of their opinions, or what?
No, on these message forums people either agree or disagree with other people. You haven't taught me anything new and I'm sure the same is true vice versa. This is a forum for people to speak their minds, I doubt there is even one medical professional present among us so this is the wrong place to learn about abortion.

reply from: BossMomma

You know what it means to "assume", don't you?
Not to mention, you generalized your statement to "how pro-lifers think", not how YOU ASSUME those six men and women were thinking.
Big difference.
I was being a smart ass, I know what they were thinking because they were screaming their thoughts at me quite vigorously @@.

reply from: lukesmom

I don't get the relevance of your statement...... what is your point?
Are you claiming that humans are not influenced by other people's expression of their opinions, or what?
No, on these message forums people either agree or disagree with other people. You haven't taught me anything new and I'm sure the same is true vice versa. This is a forum for people to speak their minds, I doubt there is even one medical professional present among us so this is the wrong place to learn about abortion.
Actually there are medical professionals here, me being one and Galen another. Her specialty is OB, mine is not. I wouldn't be suprised if there where more of us here.
So much for your assumptions, once again...

reply from: BossMomma

I don't get the relevance of your statement...... what is your point?
Are you claiming that humans are not influenced by other people's expression of their opinions, or what?
No, on these message forums people either agree or disagree with other people. You haven't taught me anything new and I'm sure the same is true vice versa. This is a forum for people to speak their minds, I doubt there is even one medical professional present among us so this is the wrong place to learn about abortion.
Actually there are medical professionals here, me being one and Galen another. Her specialty is OB, mine is not. I wouldn't be suprised if there where more of us here.
So much for your assumptions, once again...
Galen I can believe, you however strike me as a hateful ignoramous and I wouldn't trust you with a cough drop, much less the care of a patient.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, it's really fanatical to want to save the lives of unborn babies, right?
In the case of elective abortion, I'd say "guilt" would be the only positive outcome of such a horrific act. They ought to feel guilty about killing their baby.

reply from: yoda

We've had a couple of proaborts change their minds and become prolife here on this forum, so you never know what kind of effect you may have. And if you do influence someone to kill their baby, you share responsibility for that act.
You don't need a "medical professional" to discuss whether it's right or wrong to electively kill your own child. You only need a conscience.

reply from: BossMomma

Yeah, it's really fanatical to want to save the lives of unborn babies, right?
In the case of elective abortion, I'd say "guilt" would be the only positive outcome of such a horrific act. They ought to feel guilty about killing their baby.
It's no wonder women who come to your "center" feel guilty about abortion, your counceling probably is the root cause of it.

reply from: yoda

Sadly, none of us get the chance to "councel" any of the customers, due to a court order keeping us at least 150 feet away from the front door. Our signs are the only thing we have to communicate with them, other than raising our voices to a shouting level. (And I choose not to do that.)
But guilt is not always a bad thing, is it? Don't you think that children ought to feel guilty when they are caught doing bad things? Isn't guilt a healthy emotion in that respect?
And I honestly do think it's a "bad thing" when a healthy woman electively decides to kill her healthy unborn baby. Call me old fashioned, but that's just how I think.

reply from: BossMomma

We've had a couple of proaborts change their minds and become prolife here on this forum, so you never know what kind of effect you may have. And if you do influence someone to kill their baby, you share responsibility for that act.
You don't need a "medical professional" to discuss whether it's right or wrong to electively kill your own child. You only need a conscience.
Want to know a bit of Irony? I was once a staunch pro-lifer, but the ignorance, arrogance and, hypocrisy of the pro-life position changed my mind. I have a conscience, I have a good heart and I do much good for my community and, I let people make their own choices. That's good enough for me.

reply from: BossMomma

Causing a woman guilt because she made a personal, legal choice is wrong. Her uterus or the contents therein are none of your affair.

reply from: yoda

So tell me, which BABIES did you find to be arrogant, and hypocritical?
Surely you didn't transfer you anger towards prolifers to the babies, did you?
You didn't turn against the babies because of your dislike of certain adults, did you?
Oh wait..... you did. You must not have been so "staunch" after all, since you obviously had no protective feelings towards babies to start with.

reply from: yoda

Slave owners in the antebellum south would've just loved you.
"Hey, don't put no damn guilt trip on me just because I own slaves, and beat them to death!! Hell, it's legal!!"

reply from: BossMomma

Slave owners in the antebellum south would've just loved you.
"Hey, don't put no damn guilt trip on me just because I own slaves, and beat them to death!! Hell, it's legal!!"
Aborting an unwanted embryo is not akin to slavery.

reply from: yoda

HAH!!
Is THAT the best DODGE you can come up with?
INTENTIONALLY AND ELECTIVELY KILLING AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING is the SAME...... NO MATER WHERE, WHEN, WHY, OR HOW!
YOU STILL HAVE INNOCENT BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS!

reply from: BossMomma

HAH!!
Is THAT the best DODGE you can come up with?
INTENTIONALLY AND ELECTIVELY KILLING AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING is the SAME...... NO MATER WHERE, WHEN, WHY, OR HOW!
YOU STILL HAVE INNOCENT BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS!
Prove it. My hands are quite spotless, I've killed no one, and the next time you go shouting at me, at least learn to spell.

reply from: yoda

No need to. I already know that you can see it yourself, and probably hear it as well. And you can't wash it off. Live with it.

reply from: BossMomma

No need to. I already know that you can see it yourself, and probably hear it as well. And you can't wash it off. Live with it.
Live with what? I made my choice 3 times and am quite happy with it, I leave other women's choices to them.

reply from: yoda

And that's the source of the blood that is on your hands.
Just as if you left the choice of whether to kill their born kids "to them".

reply from: BossMomma

And that's the source of the blood that is on your hands.
Just as if you left the choice of whether to kill their born kids "to them".
So you expect me to be the caped cruisader and neglect my kids to make sure no one kills theirs? Sorry, not my place. You never saved a single born child from murder either, does that mean that you have blood on your hands? Of course not because you're pro-life, you're holier than thou, you are without sin that you may cast the first stone. Right?
Where were you for Baby Hope or Baby Grace? Out lobbying for the fetus and embryo, where were you for Jonbenet Ramsey? Out lobbying for the embryo and fetus. Children died on your watch and you did nothing, go pull the plank from your eye that you may see clearly to pull the speck from mine.

reply from: yoda

No, I certainly don't expect you to lift a finger to help stop the slaughter of over a million babies a year. I know that would be way too much effort for you to put out.
All I could ask of someone like you is to stop supporting the slaughter on forums like this one. But I'm afraid that would be way, way too much to ask of you also.
So go ahead, stand back and cheer every time another four thousand babies die in abortuaries in this country..... and that happens every day. And then you can say "I didn't neglect my kids".

reply from: BossMomma

No, I certainly don't expect you to lift a finger to help stop the slaughter of over a million babies a year. I know that would be way too much effort for you to put out.
All I could ask of someone like you is to stop supporting the slaughter on forums like this one. But I'm afraid that would be way, way too much to ask of you also.
So go ahead, stand back and cheer every time another four thousand babies die in abortuaries in this country..... and that happens every day. And then you can say "I didn't neglect my kids".
Your damn right, I don't neglect my kids, MY kids are my life, I gestated each for 9 months next to my heart and nursed them at my breast. I gave my blood sweat and tears to provide them with all their needs and most of their wants. MY kids are my priority. Unless you intend to take personal interest in the care of each and every child in this Country after they are born, you should have no say in whether or not they are born.

reply from: 4given

And how was that point lost?

reply from: 4given

And your vested interest makes you somehow worthy of opinion in the matter. I am sure you have or intend to take a personal interest in the care of each and every woman in this country after she aborts her child, right? There was a thread.. lunatic fringe. I believe this little tid-bit belongs there.

reply from: yoda

I see you took no exception to my assertion that you would "stand back and cheer every time another four thousand babies die in abortuaries every day in this country". No surprise there, really.
In that case, then animal rights activists should have no say in whether any animals are mistreated or killed for trivial reasons, right? And people who campaign against child abuse have no say in that unless they are willing to adopt every abused child in the country, right?
I do take a "personal interest" in every child that is electively aborted in this country, I campaign for each of their lives. You, on the other hand, seem to take a personal interest in seeing that no one delays or stops that slaughter, by your words of support for abortion here.
And ALL kids ARE BORN...... it's just that some are born alive, and some make you happy by being born DEAD.
So, do you neglect your kids to post your support of abortion here?

reply from: yoda

And how was that point lost?
Proaborts just somehow seem to lose track of that point.......

reply from: Witness

Posted by Boss Momma: Your damn right, I don't neglect my kids, MY kids are my life, I gestated each for 9 months next to my heart and nursed them at my breast. I gave my blood sweat and tears to provide them with all their needs and most of their wants. MY kids are my priority. Unless you intend to take personal interest in the care of each and every child in this Country after they are born, you should have no say in whether or not they are born.
How could you have such love for the children you let live and none for those aborted? They are of the same makeup as the ones you aborted. Why don't you feel anything for them?

reply from: BossMomma

And your vested interest makes you somehow worthy of opinion in the matter. I am sure you have or intend to take a personal interest in the care of each and every woman in this country after she aborts her child, right? There was a thread.. lunatic fringe. I believe this little tid-bit belongs there.
No I take an interest in women's rights because I am a woman, they are my rights too. You lunatic bigots care only that a pregnancy is brought to term. Do any of you ever go to a maternity ward and congratulate women who do give birth? Doubtful, as pro-life is all about the embryo and fetus. Once the child is born your work is done.

reply from: BossMomma

You obviously feel your "place" is as a "cruisader" <sic> for women's rights to kill their children.... Are you really implying that you would have to neglect your children to be prolife (but not to be "prochoice")?
I was pro-life once, but I grew out of it once I looked at the bigger picture. Pro-life doesn't give a damn about anything but live birth, no care for quality of life for either mother or child. My choice is to be pro-choice because IMO pro-choice is the wisest choice.

reply from: BossMomma

That you see to it that the child has a good life, that the child wont be neglected, beaten, molested or otherwise misused. Also that the child is provided nurishment, housing, education and anything else the child may need. If it's so important for you that each child be born I expect you to make an obligation to each, if your going to ditch the child right after it's born then birth is all that matters to you.

reply from: yoda

That's very revealing. Tiny little babies don't have to be viewed in the "big picture", they're very, very small. And you obviously don't care about small things, even small living human beings.
Prolife is being in opposition to the legal status of elective abortion, plain and simple, no matter what you say it is or isn't.

reply from: yoda

Well we can see how you feel about firefighters who rescue people from burning buildings....... unless they are going to support them for the rest of their lives, they should just let them burn up, right?
What a cold, nasty attitude.

reply from: BossMomma

That's very revealing. Tiny little babies don't have to be viewed in the "big picture", they're very, very small. And you obviously don't care about small things, even small living human beings.
Prolife is being in opposition to the legal status of elective abortion, plain and simple, no matter what you say it is or isn't.
I know what pro-life is about, pro-life is one big "what- if" game, no real fact or logic just "what if" this and "what if" that. I prefer to look hardest at what effects me and my family, I don't lose sleep over whose having an abortion, whose morals or ethics are different than mine and I doubt you do either.

reply from: BossMomma

Well we can see how you feel about firefighters who rescue people from burning buildings....... unless they are going to support them for the rest of their lives, they should just let them burn up, right?
What a cold, nasty attitude.
Fire fighters protect actual persons, you lobby uselessly for the potential.

reply from: yoda

Is that what it was to you? NO prolifer that I know considers it a "game".
OMG, now you're trying to justify the slaughter of babies by denying the true definition of a vernacular term....... how unbelievably shallow, cold and callous.
per·son (plural peo·ple per·sons (formal)) noun 1. human being: an individual human being 2. human's body: a human being's body, often including the clothing
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861725217/person.html

per.son Pronunciation: (pûr'sun),-n. 2. a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing. 6. the body of a living human being, sometimes including the clothes being worn: He had no money on his person. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0584644.html

Main Entry: per·son 1 : HUMAN: 4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; http://bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=person&x=16&y=16
]http://www.m-w.com/cgi-
bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=person&x=16&y=16
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Person: Pronunciation puhr sEn Definition 1. a human being. Definition 2. the body of a human being. Example the clothes on his person. http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=person&matchtype=exact

reply from: BossMomma

Is that what it was to you? NO prolifer that I know considers it a "game".
OMG, now you're trying to justify the slaughter of babies by denying the true definition of a vernacular term....... how unbelievably shallow, cold and callous.
per·son (plural peo·ple per·sons (formal)) noun 1. human being: an individual human being 2. human's body: a human being's body, often including the clothing
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861725217/person.html
">http://encarta.msn.com/diction...217/person.html
per.son Pronunciation: (pûr'sun),-n. 2. a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing. 6. the body of a living human being, sometimes including the clothes being worn: He had no money on his person. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0584644.html
">http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0584644.html
Main Entry: per·son 1 : HUMAN: 4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; http://bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=person&x=16&y=16
]http://www.m-w.com/cgi-
http://bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=person&x=16&y=16
">bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary...p://www.m-w.com/cgi-[B]http://www.m-w.com/cgi-<[/L]
Person: Pronunciation puhr sEn Definition 1. a human being. Definition 2. the body of a human being. Example the clothes on his person. http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=person&matchtype=exact
You can define a fetus as whatever you want, you can call it a citizen if you want to but it does not trump the rights of the born woman who has the right of say over her own body. Whether you think it should is irrelevent.

reply from: yoda

No, that's the whole point...... neither you nor I can define ANY terms of the vernacular with authority, only dictionaries do that.
Irrelevant to legal power, yes. And apparently, that's all you care about, having the legal power to kill a baby, whether it's right or wrong, decent or indecent, good or evil.
You've sold out to the letter of the law. You have no individual integrity, do you?

reply from: 4given

And how was that point lost?
Proaborts just somehow seem to lose track of that point.......
Indeed. My issue is with the lifers on this one more so.

reply from: 4given

And your vested interest makes you somehow worthy of opinion in the matter. I am sure you have or intend to take a personal interest in the care of each and every woman in this country after she aborts her child, right? There was a thread.. lunatic fringe. I believe this little tid-bit belongs there.
No I take an interest in women's rights because I am a woman, they are my rights too. You lunatic bigots care only that a pregnancy is brought to term. Do any of you ever go to a maternity ward and congratulate women who do give birth? Doubtful, as pro-life is all about the embryo and fetus. Once the child is born your work is done.So you don't care about the woman after she aborts Momma? You only care about her ability to do so? What if it was a bad choice? Why abortion? Ever consider guiding a woman to adoption? Oh wait! That dreaded foster care system.. hmmm. How many newborns enter care unless mom is incarcerated? Anyone less willing to take a newborn? We aren't. What do you know about the foster care system? Personally. What is your personal experience with abortion, other that not wanting irresponsible and abused women to gestate?As far as the maternity ward lunacy, No. I don't wander halls of random birthing wards to congratulate the unsuspecting patients there. Do you have actual big girl proof that those that are against the killing of the unborn only care about babes in the embryo or fetus stage? Whose work is done? Stereotype much? Just as you death mongers only care about the slaughter of innocent children for whatever reason you may find suitable.. Oh wait! I am not stereotyping there much, right? Isn't that your Boss Momma Movement?

reply from: lukesmom

No, I certainly don't expect you to lift a finger to help stop the slaughter of over a million babies a year. I know that would be way too much effort for you to put out.
All I could ask of someone like you is to stop supporting the slaughter on forums like this one. But I'm afraid that would be way, way too much to ask of you also.
So go ahead, stand back and cheer every time another four thousand babies die in abortuaries in this country..... and that happens every day. And then you can say "I didn't neglect my kids".
Your damn right, I don't neglect my kids, MY kids are my life, I gestated each for 9 months next to my heart and nursed them at my breast. I gave my blood sweat and tears to provide them with all their needs and most of their wants. MY kids are my priority. Unless you intend to take personal interest in the care of each and every child in this Country after they are born, you should have no say in whether or not they are born.
Good thing your kids weren't in another's womb because they would most likely be dead just like all the other unborn children you care nothing about... Take a good long look at them and imagine the ones like them you allowed to die through your apathy. Then go pat yourself on the back as a good little human.

reply from: lukesmom

You obviously feel your "place" is as a "cruisader" <sic> for women's rights to kill their children.... Are you really implying that you would have to neglect your children to be prolife (but not to be "prochoice")?
I was pro-life once, but I grew out of it once I looked at the bigger picture. Pro-life doesn't give a damn about anything but live birth, no care for quality of life for either mother or child. My choice is to be pro-choice because IMO pro-choice is the wisest choice.
There are many, many, many born women and children who don't have a quality of life that meets the "norm" standards. Are you saying we should go kill them? Are you now trying to force your standards of quality of life on others? You are sounding like Hitler's little clone.

reply from: lukesmom

Scaricari is the grim reaper of the preborn.

reply from: lukesmom

HEhehe, guess you better be careful with every nurse you meet. One of them may be ME! BOO! LOL!

reply from: Witness

Posted by Boss Momma: Your damn right, I don't neglect my kids, MY kids are my life, I gestated each for 9 months next to my heart and nursed them at my breast. I gave my blood sweat and tears to provide them with all their needs and most of their wants. MY kids are my priority. Unless you intend to take personal interest in the care of each and every child in this Country after they are born, you should have no say in whether or not they are born.
I repeat --- How could you have such love for the children you let live and none for those aborted? They are of the same makeup as the ones you aborted. Why don't you feel anything for them?
Both were inside you. Did you not feel anything?


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