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A topic exclusively for people wishing to protect ALL unborn persons.

Kindly respect our space.

by: nancyu

This thread is to be dedicated to the unborn persons who are just as worthy of having their life defended and protected as the next person. All unborn human persons regardless of age, size, gender, religious affiliation, race, color, creed, deformity or disability, and regardless of circumstances of conception (did I miss anyone?) In other words without exception. An unborn child is a person. Once conceived that child is here. That child exists, is alive, and deserves to be here as much as you or I do, and there is no law that can make it okay for you to kill that child.

reply from: nancyu

Click http://www.songsforteaching.com/geofjohnson/s/ghostsaysboo.mp3 Pro aborts.

reply from: Banned Member

Psalm 1
Happy those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked, Nor go the way of sinners, nor sit in company with scoffers. Rather, the law of the LORD is their joy; God's law they study day and night. They are like a tree planted near streams of water, that yields its fruit in season; Its leaves never wither; whatever they do prospers. But not the wicked! They are like chaff driven by the wind. Therefore the wicked will not survive judgment, nor will sinners in the assembly of the just. The LORD watches over the way of the just, but the way of the wicked leads to ruin.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDSbsbxOnQo

reply from: Banned Member

Romans 1:22-32
While claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes. Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts 15 for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

reply from: sweet

AWESOME thread! this is so wonderful and so needed! those innocent babies can't speak for themselves so if we don't, who will?

reply from: nancyu

Yay! The good guys are here!

reply from: Banned Member

Started what? Should I bargain with the likes of perversity for the sake of the unborn? and deny Christ? As I read somewhere this afternoon, one cannot practice vice virtuously. I cannot trade away one evil for another and think that any kind of victory. I am for Christ and I am for the unborn.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-gallery.htm?intcmp=Nav_Global_photosandvideo_insidewombslides (Warning!! Graphic and explicit images.)
Irritating, they call the child a "baby to be". Maybe so, but a person's life begins at the beginning.

reply from: Banned Member

"I was a stranger, and you welcomed me."
Abortion greets the person of Jesus Christ in the stranger of the unborn child with death. What a welcome into the world, to be ripped apart and killed in the womb.

reply from: Banned Member

If I am going to apply truth to things in the world, I must apply them to all things equally. I cannot call one evil by its name, and another evil good, or simply look the other way in the name of tolerance when I know the difference. I can only return truth for the animosity that I receive when you stand convicted by the truth that you deride me for speaking. In short, you defy and mock the Gospel, because you stand convicted before it. I did not invent the truth, nor can you change the truth.

reply from: Banned Member

There are other things in this world that are evil besides abortion.

reply from: lukesmom

Per Mark Crutcher:
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=3288&enterthread=y&STARTPAGE=3

reply from: Banned Member

No, homosexuality is too people sexually maligning each other. It is a perversion of the use of sex to ends for which it was never intended. Abortion oddly enough does the same thing. Abortion objectifies the human person, exploiting them for personal ends, whatever they may be. Love is not to be confused with unhealthy, unnatural lust that views the person only as a body of flesh, that is acquired, used and then discarded without emotional or moral attachment or responsibility.

reply from: Banned Member

Genesis 1:26-28
Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground." God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.

reply from: Banned Member

Genesis 1:26-28
Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground." God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.

reply from: 4given

Agreed. Blessed to stand beside you in the fight to protect them from meeting such a horrific end!

reply from: smom

Nancy I had tears in your video. Thank you for sharing. Those tiny innocents are so precious. The first time I ever saw a new infant, my friend from work was sharing her video of her ultra sound. I saw the baby bouncing from one side to the other, and the way it was being so playful... I never saw a baby the same again. She also smoked like a chimney and it was quite hard to watch. But all those views in that video.. it just shows the life that is very much bursting with energy inside the womb. Im very thankful that we can now see it. I CANNOT believe that some animals have more protections than our own kind. I simply cannot fathom why. An innocent baby bouncing and playing amongst the womb being tragically taken.. Its like ripping a tot from his playground. Do you think they go willingly?! I have to believe that there is a fight insued during the traumatic instance. A fight for life. I can only go back to when my first baby had the cord around his neck. I knew there was something wrong. There was almost an aggression in my womb. When they broke my waters and found all the meconium... Im so thankful he is doing well now. It was a fight for his life in the beginning.
I think of the boys circumcisions.. and the heart stopping shrieks that enveloped the hallways during the cut. I got up from my bed so fast regardless of my own hurts and pains. My heart was having palpatations and all I wanted to do was get to my baby!! You cannot tell me they feel NO pain. The most sensitive place on their body?! They talk of how the penis has all these vessels that go there that enhance the nerve endings.. and to say they wont feel anything.. and that they numbed them enough. I beg to differ. My son was forever changed after his cut. He fought tooth and nail when I went to change him. He acted like I was about to hurt him. He never acted that way before the cut. He had so much trouble with his changings. I felt so bad for him. It was like his bloodpressure would go up and he would completely tense his body! It took months before he was able to 'relax' and have a normal diaper change. My girls never acted as such.
I just wish that we were a little more cautious of how we cut and poke our babies. They ARE tender. They cry in pain.. They shutter in anxiety.. they fight to get loose of our grip when they think they will get pain again. Ive sat in the offices cradling stiff babies in agony. To ignore their actions is poor on us. its amazing, babies learn by touch. they sense our feelings, such as anger, anxiety, peacefulness... they respond at times.. they sense our loving touch, and yes, they sense our harshness of needles. Thank you Nancy for the video, Ive been wanting to see one, especially with the newer views.
Keep your sights to the Lord. God be with you.

reply from: smom

So... back to the beautiful innocent ultrasounds. Absolutely thrilling to see such life burst inside the womb... It gives new meaning to the term...'fetus'. that was no fetus to me, bolting acrossed the womb.. with his/hers delicate yet strong muscles that DEFINITELY was an innocent fragile baby. To delight in watching a baby at play inside the most protective space you could make for a baby. The dream like state that we all wish ourselves times when we are faced with strife and tribulation.. Where we can be coddled, loved, fed.. and safe from the elements... The most delicate fragile state and in the most protective of places...safely at play. 24/7

reply from: nancyu

You're welcome smom! I loved the video, too.
I will and God be with you as well. Thanks!

reply from: Cecilia

OMG!!! Circumcision sounds like torture! Did you change your opinions on it after that?

reply from: yoda

There can be no moral exceptions to that rule, period.

reply from: yoda

Yes, he posts under that name. And he has on several occasions stated that proaborts are allowed to post here only for purposes of "amusement".

reply from: Jameberlin

Isn't there a section where you can start a thread and make it only available to certain people, thereby avoiding this whole confrontation at all?
I understand the need to be able to speak and feel accepted, and not worry about being under attack... but i don't think this is the way to go about that.

reply from: nancyu

Quote me directly where I said that.
That would be a waste of time, I never said you said it anyway.
I'd rather quote this OUTSTANDING Post:

-------------------------
By making your convenience more important than their lives, you literally say they deserve to die for your comfort. What argument will you then make when the doctor decides your life is too inconvenient for his effort?
Einstein taught that Physics, not Truth, is Relative and he was offended when quoted as saying otherwise.

reply from: nancyu

And here's another one:

reply from: smom

thank you Lukes mom!!! I appreciate your perspective. And feel Ive learned through a window about your walk. A mere window though. But youve said a lot and its a life lesson well learned. Its through you that we can learn a better way.. through your struggles that we can witness a perspective that is stronger than our own, even in your weakness. A bigger picture.
He lived. He lived inside you.. in the most best comforts life provides!!! He lived and he got to enjoy his mother for however long. A gift that graced your womb and graced your heart. He will never be forgotten. As weak as you were, you can still enjoy the fact that you gave him a chance to have what little life he could enjoy.. However small. He was your child and loved. What a honor to hear your courageous story.

reply from: smom

I have to share, that my grandparents always answer that they had 9 children. 1 died, their firstborn. And even though he lived only a few days, he was no less their child. They ALWAYS honor him by sharing his life story.. by including him in their count of children ... and always keep his spirit important. Ive always been mightie awed by their convicitions. And...blessed to have them for grandparents. Because if they show THAT much love for their child that was born over 60 years ago and died after a few days of life... how much more do they love all of us?? Extraordinary people. Its in their life and how they lived it.. that i can look up to and strive to honor. There is greatness in this world. I wanted to share this with you.. so that you will forgive your weaknesses and honor your baby that you carried. Its through Luke, that you came alive in your thoughts towards the innocent. Had he not graced your heart and womb... where would you be today? Its through that small life...however small, very precious.. that he changed your way of thinking... and gave you growth and a different kind of love.. a new way of living.. The chance to meet others who need your help and your views to decide how they are going to handle their future. What a great undertaking. What a great priviledge to share your story and help others! In hardship and strife comes much joy and living!!
peace be with you.

reply from: Witness

Well said, Smom. I agree completely.

reply from: nancyu

http://view.playlist.com/10447943691
subject to change; suggestions welcome. I even put some joni mitchell in for CM.

reply from: nancyu

Wines are v. good in nz. California wines are great too though!
So x and BM, I'm glad you've come around to the right way of thinking. You are now wishing to protect ALL unborn children. Good for you! Here's to you, a good ole American Welcome to pro life! I think you'll like it here!

reply from: BossMomma

Wines are v. good in nz. California wines are great too though!
So x and BM, I'm glad you've come around to the right way of thinking. You are now wishing to protect ALL unborn children. Good for you! Here's to you, a good ole American Welcome to pro life! I think you'll like it here!
I'm still pro-choice sorry. I was discussing bread and booze, not abortion.

reply from: nancyu

And apparently you didn't read the topic title swst!

reply from: BossMomma

oh we did, we just chose to ignore it, kinda like christians did when I made a thread for pagans.

reply from: lukesmom

oh we did, we just chose to ignore it, kinda like christians did when I made a thread for pagans.
Would the goddess approve of your nastiness and hatefulness?

reply from: BossMomma

oh we did, we just chose to ignore it, kinda like christians did when I made a thread for pagans.
Would the goddess approve of your nastiness and hatefulness?
It kinda goes with the three fold law, if someone treats me is such a way, they can expect to get it back in kind. My faith says nothing about turning the other cheek.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Okay, I'm making an appearance ONLY to tell Xena and whoever else on here that ISN'T 100% pro-life to seriously shove off. I haven't even LOOKED at this topic until today! But when I saw that the last reply (was) from Xena, I just got angry. I'm choosing not to post to this topic because I DON'T feel ALL abortion should be illegal, so as per the request, I've stayed out. I won't make any other posts; if something else needs to be said I'll just edit this one.
RESPECT, people. Get some, and get out of this thread.

reply from: BossMomma

Funny, I didn't see you on my thread telling christians to shove off. Why don't you take your own advise, you aren't running anything either..unless you count your mouth.

reply from: lukesmom

Funny, I didn't see you on my thread telling christians to shove off. Why don't you take your own advise, you aren't running anything either..unless you count your mouth.
Speaking of running mouths...

reply from: BossMomma

Funny, I didn't see you on my thread telling christians to shove off. Why don't you take your own advise, you aren't running anything either..unless you count your mouth.
Speaking of running mouths...
And LM yaps again! I'm starting to wonder what would happen if she actually had to stand on her own two feet.

reply from: BossMomma

Funny, I didn't see you on my thread telling christians to shove off. Why don't you take your own advise, you aren't running anything either..unless you count your mouth.
Speaking of running mouths...
OMG How is this saving the bayyyyybbbbeeeeessssss
I'd still like to know where LM finds the time to monitor how long I spend online responding to posts. It's twice I've noticed her asking " Where'd bossy go?" She probably has no life outside of this board where she can hide behind others and snap where ever she wants without any guts to actually debate on her own.

reply from: lukesmom

Big cough Bossy and that ought to expell xena... Go ahead try, all it takes is one big cough.

reply from: BossMomma

So will a big fart expell you?

reply from: lukesmom

So will a big fart expell you?
No, that's xena with her head up your butt, you are confused but who wouldn't be in that situation!

reply from: lukesmom

Nope, actually the whole family is home but tucked safely in bed, where I am also going soon. Bossy is actually my chosen entertainment for tonight. Truthfully, why should Bossy hand out the insults and not expect to get them back?

reply from: BossMomma

So will a big fart expell you?
No, that's xena with her head up your butt, you are confused but who wouldn't be in that situation!
Xena can actually stand up for herself, she doesn't follow me around being my mouth piece. Xena has even disagreed with me at times which shows that she is capable of her own point of view. If anyone has been up my butt it's you.

reply from: BossMomma

Nope, actually the whole family is home but tucked safely in bed, where I am also going soon. Bossy is actually my chosen entertainment for tonight. Truthfully, why should Bossy hand out the insults and not expect to get them back?
If you have a family who has been keeping them all day while you're watching for me online? I'm out for 80% of the day doing baby gym, boy scouts, grocery shopping, clothes shopping (today was costume shopping as halloween approaches) preparing for Ike as it's due to hit Galveston in the next few days. I get maybe two hours in the day to piddle around online, honestly how does LM do it?

reply from: lukesmom

They are in school and it was my day off. My kids are older and don't need "watching" but I do alot of taxi service! I come on the computer between loads of laundry and cleaning. If you notice, I am here mainly at night and on my days off, this is my "reward" for doing certain very boring but necessary jobs. Funny, but today, everytime I was here, you were too. Even when I posted the "come out" post. So how do YOU do it?

reply from: BossMomma

They are in school and it was my day off. My kids are older and don't need "watching" but I do alot of taxi service! I come on the computer between loads of laundry and cleaning. If you notice, I am here mainly at night and on my days off, this is my "reward" for doing certain very boring but necessary jobs. Funny, but today, everytime I was here, you were too. Even when I posted the "come out" post. So how do YOU do it?
This is your reward? Funny, a hot bubble bath and a deep tissue massage are mine (my man is a saint) If I were here when you were here you wouldn't have posted the come out post. My life is rather exciting actually, my daughter does sign language classes which help her develope her speech. My son has just entered cub scouts, my boyfriend and I are busy out going people. This is a wind down for me.

reply from: lukesmom

They are in school and it was my day off. My kids are older and don't need "watching" but I do alot of taxi service! I come on the computer between loads of laundry and cleaning. If you notice, I am here mainly at night and on my days off, this is my "reward" for doing certain very boring but necessary jobs. Funny, but today, everytime I was here, you were too. Even when I posted the "come out" post. So how do YOU do it?
This is your reward? Funny, a hot bubble bath and a deep tissue massage are mine (my man is a saint) If I were here when you were here you wouldn't have posted the come out post. My life is rather exciting actually, my daughter does sign language classes which help her develope her speech. My son has just entered cub scouts, my boyfriend and I are busy out going people. This is a wind down for me.
To each his/her own, too warm here for a hot bath, that's for winter. I posted the "come out" post because you WERE here and I figured you were evading again.
Actually, I don't get much time for myself to do what I want with 3 boys in football and my daughter in volleyball and basketball and volunteer work and my regular job. Cleaning and laundry are boring so I think of something I can do for a few minutes inbetween as a "reward". The computer is it. Now, I gotta get to bed. 6:00 comes early and it's a long work day and football games tomorrow night. Goodnight.

reply from: BossMomma

It just depends on how outgoing you are, I'm energetic and outgoing, my kids are the same way. My baby girl will NOT be without her bye bye time and now that she's graduated from crawling to cruising baby gym has gotten more and more fun. There are sacrifices involved with motherhood, but it's worth it for the bond those kids build with you. (At least IMO.)

reply from: BossMomma

IMO= In My Opinion
Maybe you should only have one child, life would still be fairly easy to balance.

reply from: nancyu

Anyone is more than welcome to post here. I hope everyone does. Just remember what you're implying by doing so. I think you're both closet pro lifers. Come out come out whereveryouare.

reply from: BossMomma

Nah, I'm a recovering pro-lifer. I saw the light and became pro-choice.

reply from: nancyu

?
Too complicated for you liberal? I'm hoping everyone will want to protect the unborn. I didn't mean to confuse you. Sorry.

reply from: 4given

By "light" you must mean dismembered and bloodied corpses right?
Or was it Mama's heel firmly planted into the back of that fractured skull that lured you in?

reply from: 4given

Sure. She was never pro-life. She is making an attempt at being facetious.. Lost here.

reply from: Cecilia

I used to be prolife, BM, then I experienced an unplanned pregnancy from an abusive man who, while we were married and he could not technically "rape" me by law, he certainly forced nonconsensual sex upon me. My puritan upbringing was the cause for my previous views on abortion.
I examined the issue and my resepective life and determined that the best decision for me was an abortion. I utilized medical textbooks at my disposal to learn about abortion. I then determined that if it was the best decision for me, it could be the best decision for other women. Since then, I have stepped aside and allowed other women to make this decision for themselves, especially for women in abusive relationships. Their situation is so singular that it is violating to think I could be so presuming about what is best for them.
I am no longer married to him. Had I been in a loving relationship would I have aborted?
I don't think I would have. Life is full of many colours, though, and who can say?

reply from: Cecilia

Thank you for your kindness, but it made me a stronger person and I only regret the lost time. It takes a lot of strength to make the...how do they say...heave ho out of something like that, good for your gf.

reply from: 4given

Puritan upringing? Are you are trying to use his alleged abuse of you as an excuse to advocate abuse and mutilation of the unborn. Surely many are involved in "rape" situations. Most are with a bf or spouse. Is this just another way to justify who you are and what you have done?

reply from: nancyu

Could that reason be that you both are leaving out a very important factor in a woman's decision? The child. There is a living human being who is killed when an abortion occurs. Some people keep forgetting that little detail. That tends to put our noses out of joint.

reply from: smom

Ce-Im sorry that you found yourself in that situation with a physically aggressive man, But Im more sorry that you hurt an innocent child to alieve yourself. (truth)
Apparently, you found yourself unhappy in the relationship- why did you not have precautions? We have a plethera of new age 'birth control'... (sorry) I will pray for you. I can understand that you had pain in your relationship... I am deeply sorry for your situation. This plateau that you are on that you find it 'okay' with murdering a baby over a relationship gone bad...that its okay just so you can be free from the riggers of custody and raising a child.. What about just ending the relationship and the sexual lifestyle? Its not my place to judge you. I dont condemn you for your decision. But. To almost have an arrogance that its just hunky dory... Im deeply saddened by what has seeded in your heart. I had heard something somewhere... oh, yes... Lincoln/slavery... something about the freedom of ones choice (in so many words) to choose over another.. is not right. When youve made the choice for someone else, youve exempted their right to choose for themselves whats best for THEM. (im not sure how the quote went.. but.. its what i got from it. )) That your rights trump another... then we are not equal at all. And does that go with the elderly and military disabled and etc... ? Should we allow slavery back because some chose to have it? (i dont know. i just thought i'd share)
Something we should take from this? Maybe symptoms of a trouble relationship that might give us clues to earlier troubles that we can better prepare ourselves beforehand. Before sex even becomes an issue.. and if sex is already an issue...what we can do ourselves to prevent.
Do they teach about abusive relationships early on in sex ed? Just wondering...
I took a wonderful class in my church during a 'reconciliation' weekend... It was originally intended for mending and creating healthier relationships and spotting troublespots.... for our church congregation... when in fact, these exercises would be beneficial to all walks of life. I was almost stunned that i had not learned anything close to the likeness in all my years of school or whatever.. it was just unheard of for all of us. But it was immeasurable help to me and my friends. Shouldnt we be teaching these things in the beginning and throughout the school systems... ??? I cannot tell you how much it would have saved me throughout my life and ... others... Im so thankful that we now DO have it.
some examples... they talked of..'the laundry list','bottling up issues', speaking the small hurts first and not storing them, the circle of abuse, the dealbreakers... etc.. things that i never had heard of before... anyways... i was wondering if that was expressed to our youth now? to teach them to value themselves enough to identify problem areas that could protect their futures and the futures of their children.. peace be with you.

reply from: yoda

"Anger transference" is the technical term that comes to mind. Such an action indicates that someone has transferred their anger at the rapist to the totally innocent baby. Rape and incest are the only two crimes for which an innocent bystander is sometimes executed.

reply from: lukesmom

So, you couldn't leave him and his abuse so sacrifed your child? I am sorry you were in the situation you were in but you had many options open to you before and after your child was created that did not necessitate the killing of that child. Why does a child have to die to improve YOUR life? Couldn't you have improved your life without killing another? Or maybe killing your mutual child was retribution?

reply from: BossMomma

Actually there is such a law about marital rape, even a husband is not entitled to his wife's body any time he wants her. I am pro-life for me, I will personally see to the care and rearing of my children once born, another woman's pregnancy is not my priority, if she doesn't want to be pregnant far be it from me to force her.

reply from: yoda

Nope. You are "pro-survival" for you and your family, not "pro-life".
And the only way you could force another woman to be pregnant is if you are a man and you rape her.
You could, however, try to discourage her from killing her baby.

reply from: Cecilia

Thank you for everyone's concern, but I assure you I did not live under US law, it was some time ago, and the situation was not simply a matter of leaving him.

reply from: lukesmom

But it was "simply a matter of " killing your unborn child? I don't get this.

reply from: BossMomma

Nope. You are "pro-survival" for you and your family, not "pro-life".
And the only way you could force another woman to be pregnant is if you are a man and you rape her.
I am pro-survival for me and my family, my kids mean more to me than anyone elses. Everyone elses kids are really not my problem, they are their parent's concern and I have discouraged three teens from aborting their babies and I personally put interest in their care after birth. I do not cry for them to be born then turn my back once they are. I am not pro-life, I am pro-choice and pro-survival for my family first and foremost as is any good mother. For once, you are half right.
You could, however, try to discourage her from killing her baby.

reply from: yoda

For once, you are being candid.
Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
John Donne
Meditation XVII

reply from: BossMomma

For once, you are being candid.
Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
John Donne
Meditation XVII
Do you have kids? If my kids and your kids were in danger whose kids would you seek to save first? Yours or mine?

reply from: Cecilia

But it was "simply a matter of " killing your unborn child? I don't get this.
Will you not agree with me that you perhaps have made many assumptions, and that many of them may be incorrect? Be content with that knowledge, and let me rest. There is no need for you to "get it", only for you to understand that the world is a broad place and you do not hold all the knowledge of the world in your head.

reply from: lukesmom

I CAN try to understand what I don't know by asking questions. Of course I don't know all. Never said I did. That is why I ask questions so I can learn. I also share my story and also get many assumptive and critical comments and try to educate so other's can understand and learn and hopefully go away a little more informed. On the other hand, sometimes the questions asked need to be asked for the sake of truth and justice.

reply from: yoda

Yes, I do have "kids". And I'd try to save which ever was the closest to me.
But what does that have to do with being completely apathetic about the slaughter of 4,000 kids a day for elective reasons?
How are your kids being threatened with death if you speak out against abortion on this forum?

reply from: Cecilia

I CAN try to understand what I don't know by asking questions. Of course I don't know all. Never said I did. That is why I ask questions so I can learn. I also share my story and also get many assumptive and critical comments and try to educate so other's can understand and learn and hopefully go away a little more informed. On the other hand, sometimes the questions asked need to be asked for the sake of truth and justice.
Fair enough, so I will answer your questions. I want to be clear that my vagueness in some of them is to protect my anonymous nature. I have a position that I prefer to keep and too many details are not a good thing.
So, you couldn't leave him and his abuse so sacrifed your child? I had to protect myself from further harm.
I am sorry you were in the situation you were in but you had many options open to you before and after your child was created that did not necessitate the killing of that child. These are untrue assumptions probably based on the American culture of today.
Why does a child have to die to improve YOUR life? I was getting physically abused due to the pregnancy.
Couldn't you have improved your life without killing another? No.
Or maybe killing your mutual child was retribution? No. Absurd.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yes, you could have improved your life without killing the child. You could have left. You could have called 911. You had options.

reply from: lukesmom

This is what I like about you! Thank you for answering my questions. I understand about not answering some questions, there are some things that happened when I was pg with Luke, I will never tell. Too personal and too painful. I am sure some of your experiences fit this too.
I have to admit, I have a very hard time understanding why an abused woman will not leave. I mentally understand this is part of the abused woman syndrome but I emotionally may never understand this.
How did aborting your child improve the abuse?

reply from: Cecilia

These are untrue assumptions probably based on the American culture of today.
Welcome to a broader world, where there is no 911 or leaving your husband as options.

reply from: Cecilia

This is what I like about you! Thank you for answering my questions. I understand about not answering some questions, there are some things that happened when I was pg with Luke, I will never tell. Too personal and too painful. I am sure some of your experiences fit this too.
I have to admit, I have a very hard time understanding why an abused woman will not leave. I mentally understand this is part of the abused woman syndrome but I emotionally may never understand this.
How did aborting your child improve the abuse?
Your most welcome. I generally do not wish to discuss this issue because I know that my situation is far removed from what occurs today and what people relate with in the United States. For example, look at Liberal Chi Ro's response, even after I posted information, she insists on claiming I could just call 911 and walk out the door. There is no reasoning with someone who simply closes their ears to open their mouths.
The abortion subsequently ceased the physical abuse. He stated that he would cause abortion if I did not get one and I had every reasons to believe him. How much physical abuse is one expected to endure? Can anyone be so judgemental? Be so sure what anyone of us would do in any situation?

reply from: yoda

The same could be said of someone threatening to kill a born child.. unless you do what they say, right?
So, how long would you live with such a person, who got their way by threatening to kill your child? Five, ten years? Is that really how you want to live?

reply from: lukesmom

LOL! I can understand about 911 as most of my life has been spent pre911. I have gotten angry at my dh and have left only to realize I didn't have many places to go. Fortunantly I cooled off and he is not abusive so it wasn't dangerous for me to go back.
I am feeling very intrusive so I don't feel right asking you questions about what must be painful memories. I cannot assume what your situation was like as you previously stated but unfortunantly I can never condone abortion no matter what the situation. Peace.

reply from: 4given

What?! No 911 operator. No phone service? How did you ever make that appointment to kill your child Cecilia?

reply from: 4given

The first reason, that you were allegedly raped by your husband wasn't enough. Now that you want to continue to blame him (justify) for your child's death.. YOU killed your child Cecilia. You need to be honest with yourself first. Face the truth. How far along were you? What kind of abortion did you have?

reply from: Cecilia

Thank you Sue. The memories are not so painful, and I am happy to discuss it with people who know me to do as you stated previously: I also share my story and also get many assumptive and critical comments and try to educate so other's can understand and learn and hopefully go away a little more informed.

reply from: Cecilia

The same could be said of someone threatening to kill a born child.. unless you do what they say, right?
So, how long would you live with such a person, who got their way by threatening to kill your child? Five, ten years? Is that really how you want to live?
I don't really understand your questions. Could you phrase them differently?
The first reason, that you were allegedly raped by your husband wasn't enough. Now that you want to continue to blame him (justify) for your child's death.. YOU killed your child Cecilia. You need to be honest with yourself first. Face the truth. How far along were you? What kind of abortion did you have?
I take responsibility for my decisions, I was early along.
I appreciate your attempt at understanding my situation.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1055018/posts

reply from: LiberalChiRo

These are untrue assumptions probably based on the American culture of today.
Welcome to a broader world, where there is no 911 or leaving your husband as options.
Why couldn't you leave your husband? Why couldn't you call 911?

reply from: Cecilia

These are untrue assumptions probably based on the American culture of today.
Welcome to a broader world, where there is no 911 or leaving your husband as options.
Why couldn't you leave your husband? Why couldn't you call 911?
There was actually a time before 911. You must be very young. Different cultures and situations make it impossble for women to leave their husbands.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

These are untrue assumptions probably based on the American culture of today.
Welcome to a broader world, where there is no 911 or leaving your husband as options.
Why couldn't you leave your husband? Why couldn't you call 911?
There was actually a time before 911. You must be very young. Different cultures and situations make it impossble for women to leave their husbands.
I'm 23, almost 24 and I don't consider that "very young". I consider 12 "very young". Impossible means tied to a chair or locked in a room. Impossible does not mean afraid. 911 has been around since before I was born, which was 1984. There were also plain old police stations you could call before the convenience of 911. The point was "contact the police", not "argue about 911".

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I don't say child support, I say adoption. It's still better than death.

reply from: lukesmom

LOL! To many of us 23, almost 24 IS very young! Lib, you may feel like you are not very young but you really are. You have alot of life to live and experience and, no, you don't know it all.

reply from: 4given

How early? What week? What kind of abortion did you have? Good to read that you "take responsibility for" killing your child. Was that your only child?

reply from: 4given

To me you are young. Where I was reared in South Florida, 911 was available. In the state we vacationed in, where I now reside, we did not have 911 until a few years ago. Still the calls are handled by a center 40 miles from here. Welcome to rural America.

reply from: smom

regardless. she made the action to kill her baby.. than to get protection. how many a person would hide her from her abuse?! i consider all the peoples around who would FIND A WAY to protect. is there no right to defend?

reply from: smom

btw... im confused. your hub? wanted to end His baby? AND rape? im trying to follow.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

To me you are young. Where I was reared in South Florida, 911 was available. In the state we vacationed in, where I now reside, we did not have 911 until a few years ago. Still the calls are handled by a center 40 miles from here. Welcome to rural America.
I lived in rural america for almost 10 years, I don't need welcoming to it.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

LOL! To many of us 23, almost 24 IS very young! Lib, you may feel like you are not very young but you really are. You have alot of life to live and experience and, no, you don't know it all.
Did I say "I know it all"? No; I will NEVER be so arrogant as to assume I "know it all". But I know a lot more than you are assuming I know, and quite frankly it's insulting.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

That is a completely different situation. This website is pro-life america, so it's not much of an assumption to think she was american.

reply from: Cecilia

This is very true. When you are young and feel trapped the world is even smaller.
I'm not divulging more details. As I stated before, I want to be clear that my vagueness in some of them is to protect my anonymous nature.
I've already said enough. People are making assumptions like 'you could have went here or done this'. They are quick to be unpleasant and uncompassionate. I forgive them; I can't hold somehing against them when I won't give all the details. Thanks to those who have been kind.

reply from: smom

I pray for you. Im not wanting to upset you. Its not even my place. I just pray for you and your journey through this. Ive lived with fear and abuse and I can imagine the hopelessness. The fears of facing tonight or tomorrow. Everyday. The angst that grips your every day. Honestly. Peace be with you.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.deathroe.com/As_Seen_On_Lifetalk/ViewVideo.cfm?video=2
http://www.deathroe.com/As_Seen_On_Lifetalk/ViewVideo.cfm?video=1
Welcome Caidensmom, thanks for bumping one of my favorite threads

reply from: nancyu

http://view.playlist.com/10447943691

reply from: Caidenbug

bump
there are some people here that need to reread this

reply from: Caidenbug

The kindly respect our page part.

reply from: lukesmom

Those who don't respect life, don't understand the concept of respecting much of anything else also.

reply from: yoda

I know it wasn't obvious to everyone, but that part was "tongue-in-cheek". She knew that would entice them to post constantly on this thread, and she was right.

reply from: nancyu

The Corsican brothers
Were hexed by a spell
Which will work on xena
Just as well.
From this point on
Without further ado
What an unborn child feels
Xena will too.

reply from: nancyu

Not wanted, just expected. However if anyone wants to come over to the other side you are more than welcome. Just don't kill babies.

reply from: nancyu

Precious package
Full of grace
Incandescent and so new
Whatever mortal sees
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg
Will fall straightway in love
With you.

reply from: yoda

And I thought you were a christian!
So you think an unborn child feels a lot of pain, do you?

reply from: lukesmom

She doesn't need to curse you. You are already cursed by your beliefs and actions.

reply from: yoda

How COULD that be a "curse" if unborn babies don't feel any pain?
WHAT are you afraid of?

reply from: yoda

Then why are you asking if she is a "Christian"?
What were you talking about?

reply from: BossMomma

Precious package
Full of grace
Incandescent and so new
Whatever mortal sees
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg
Will fall straightway in love
With you.
By the power of three times three so I will it, so mote it be.
Be silent and think I challenge you,
or may your ill will fall back on you.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

This is wacky guys. How does it relate to abortion?

reply from: BossMomma

LOL I know, I just find nancy's spell casting to be funny and thought I'd play along.

reply from: nancyu

You didn't like my incantations? I thought they were cute. They were all taken from episodes of "Bewitched"

reply from: nancyu

The Corsican brothers
Were hexed by a spell
Which will work on xena
Just as well.
From this point on
Without further ado
What an unborn child feels
Xena will too.
And I thought you were a christian!
I'm still not sure whether I am or not. I guess it all depends on your your idea of what Christianity is.

reply from: nancyu

She doesn't need to curse you. You are already cursed by your beliefs and actions.
Right! I was actually trying to uncurse her. Didn't work though I guess. Maybe it takes some time, or maybe I'm more like Aunt Clara than Samantha.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.geocities.com/lizajody/bew.htm
Maybe someone else will have better luck.

reply from: BossMomma

So did you wiggle your nose after you said the incantation? It wont work without that.

reply from: nancyu

Precious package
Full of grace
Incandescent and so new
Whatever mortal sees
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg
Will fall straightway in love
With you.
By the power of three times three so I will it, so mote it be.
Be silent and think I challenge you,
or may your ill will fall back on you.
Interesting, you thought those lines bore ill will?

reply from: nancyu

So did you wiggle your nose after you said the incantation? It wont work without that.
Maybe that's where I've gone wrong. I'll try that next time --- thanks!

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Could this thread get back on track?

reply from: nancyu

I asked this question in the ASK search engine: What can I do to protect unborn children?
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0128456520080402
http://www.childseatcenter.com/article12.html
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/editorial/98/06/03/beck-3770191.0-1.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-456471/Apples-fish-protect-unborn-children.html
http://www.pregnancytoday.com/articles/newborn-health-and-safety/household-hazards-during-pregnancy-1964/
None of these appear to be written by religious zealots or anti choice extremists do they? But each of these articles implies that the unborn child is a person. I wonder why they do that. Hmmm. Maybe because unborn children ARE persons. So why aren't they protected by the same laws the rest of us are?

reply from: nancyu

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1055018/posts

reply from: nancyu

GET OUT
Just ignore them. They're trolls.
I don't ignore them, but I generally disregard what they say.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.marchforlife.org/
http://lifeissues.org/
http://www.jillstanek.com/
http://www.durarealidad.com/
^This is a disgusting and horrible video as abortion is disgusting and horrible, and horribly unfair. These were innocent human beings and they deserved better than this.
http://realchoice.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-and-born-alive-babies.html
http://www.spuc.org.uk/
http://www.unitedforlife.com/action.html
http://www.prolife.com/
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=3861
We miss you.
And:
Sander, joe, faithman, teresa, ashmarie, jason... We are missing some good guys here. I know you are all here in spirit. Hope you are well.

reply from: IHeartProlifers

Hi I'm a militant liberal pro-choicer and thought I'd make my first post here in this thread just to anger nancyu and all the other religious folk on this forum, since apparently they don't want me here Nothing short of a ban will keep me from fighting you people.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I don't like militant people on either side of the debate. Violence has no place in a modern society.

reply from: CharlesD

You can fight me all you want, but I'm not fighting you. I am standing up for the basic right of all humans to life. That right does not come from the state and it is not yours to give or take away. Our nation's founding documents tell us that all people are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that those rights include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. (pardon the paraphrase) The second two are kind of difficult without the first, but those rights are not something that come from a court or the government. We are endowed by our Creator. Whether you acknowledge that creator to be God or Mom and Dad under the covers is up to you, but we have the right to life from the beginning, and the government does not have the just power to deprive any human of those rights without due process. So I'm not fighting you per se; I'm fighting the notion that the location or stage of development of a human being is cause for depriving that human of the right to life. I'm fighting the notion that, contrary to all evidence, abortion is constitutional. It violates the constitution because it deprives a human of life without due process. Just because a group of misguided black robed morons who didn't know the Constitution from a telephone book said different in 1973 doesn't change that. The Court has been wrong before and it was wrong in this case.

reply from: nancyu

Ooooh! I'm so scared and angry!!!

reply from: nancyu

You can fight me all you want, but I'm not fighting you. I am standing up for the basic right of all humans to life. That right does not come from the state and it is not yours to give or take away. Our nation's founding documents tell us that all people are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that those rights include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. (pardon the paraphrase) The second two are kind of difficult without the first, but those rights are not something that come from a court or the government. We are endowed by our Creator. Whether you acknowledge that creator to be God or Mom and Dad under the covers is up to you, but we have the right to life from the beginning, and the government does not have the just power to deprive any human of those rights without due process. So I'm not fighting you per se; I'm fighting the notion that the location or stage of development of a human being is cause for depriving that human of the right to life. I'm fighting the notion that, contrary to all evidence, abortion is constitutional. It violates the constitution because it deprives a human of life without due process. Just because a group of misguided black robed morons who didn't know the Constitution from a telephone book said different in 1973 doesn't change that. The Court has been wrong before and it was wrong in this case.
Amen!!

reply from: nancyu

http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/258/1/
"...The photo...
"The photo reminds us that my pregnancy isn't about disability or illness," Julie said, "it's about a little person. That's what it's always been about. That's what the media elite wants us to forget. And, that's why they don't want you to see the picture." The photo should be televised across the nation and published in every newspaper in the country. It won't be because the media does not want Samuel's photo to be shown; it is much too graphic a reminder that a real baby is growing in the womb. "It is not a glob of tissue, or a "product of conception;" it is a living soul. One woman wrote Vanguard Magazine, "How dare you show this!" She ended the terse rebuke with a curse word usually found scrawled on the walls of an abandoned building.
Baby Samuel at 10 weeks If you think we are overstating the case of the media's refusal to show the picture of Samuel's hand, ask Matt Drudge of "The Drudge Report," who resigned from Fox News because they would not show the photo.
Julie is happy that the photo has been seen worldwide. "We think that's great," she stated. "The fact is, we are pro-life. If God wants to use that, then that's fine."
The Fetal Position...
Samuel has not yet seen God's sunshine; he does not recognize the tender words of his mother whispering, "I love you." He's never seen his father's approving smile. And he doesn't understand the laughter reverberating throughout the womb when he squirms about. But the infant does have a position -- call it a "fetal position," if you will -- on abortion. Simply put, the innocents within the womb have the God-given right to life and want to live.
The summary...
Julie summed up the fetal position in an entry to Dr. Laura's Guest Book after viewing a show featuring Samuel's operation. "Please don't misunderstand my husband and I - we are not superhuman. This has hit us very hard and it is difficult not to ask 'why us?' Well, thanks to your show, I have been given an answer. No matter what Samuel's outcome is, we know that God has allowed him to impact others with a photograph of his tiny, unborn hand. " Truly, Samuel's photo states the fetal position better than words can describe. He literally reached out from the womb to save other infants from the horrors of abortion."

reply from: LiberalChiRo

The doctor himself recoiled against the media attention this case got, and made an official statement that the baby's hand simply flopped out; the child was under the same general anesthesia as the mother (obviously, since they are connected via the placenta) and did not have any ability to "reach" or "grab".

reply from: nancyu

I would have to assume the doctor was pro abort, if he recoiled at what little media attention this received. Regardless of how the photograph happened doesn't change the fact that this was the hand of a human being. No clump of cells or wad of tissue.
Happy Halloween everyone. To those of you contemplating abortion today, please remember that little one you are carrying might like to have the chance to go trick-or-treating one day.
http://www.emusic.com/album/10821/10821390.html

reply from: Nulono

Yeah, not much more to say in a topic where everyone agrees...

reply from: Nulono

Seriously, what's the point of this thread?...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

True enough Nancyu. I like how the episode of House handled it. Then again, I am in love with Dr. House so.... XD
I think the point of this thread is to schmooze about how much we care for the unborn, so anyone that feels it's okay to electively abort at any time during the pregnancy need not post here.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWmy1G9s22M&feature=related
I didn't see the entire episode so I don't know exactly how it was handled. I would have liked to see some real unborn child photographs like http://www.lifeissues.org/windows.html instead of the fake ones they used. House is usually so realistic, I think they could have done better. It almost seems like they wanted the images to appear fake to imply that there are no REAL photos of unborn children. It also seemed to open the door for the old "health of the mother" exception, which is nonsense.
I'm thinking this is more propaganda to attempt to keep abortion "legal" and "moral" and "acceptable" It is none of the above.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IixyAERoRhE

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf8l-Tr1Qqg&feature=related

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTHmn13v7Ts&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOjTXastftI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaL_B9PXy-I&feature=related

reply from: Rosalie

And this perfectly illustrates one of the things that is so wrong with the so-called "pro-lifers". The health of mother exception might not matter to you but it does or should matter to every single person. The fact that you dismiss it so matter-of-factly is absolutely unacceptable.

reply from: nancyu

http://k-tip.org/
Witness, I see some of your beautiful artwork on the wall!

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6heVhZfVwR8&feature=related

reply from: Nulono

A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_v._Bolton#Broad_definition_of_health
B: The health of one person is not more important than the heath of another person.

reply from: lukesmom

And this perfectly illustrates one of the things that is so wrong with the so-called "pro-lifers". The health of mother exception might not matter to you but it does or should matter to every single person. The fact that you dismiss it so matter-of-factly is absolutely unacceptable.
The fact you dismiss the obvious life of an unborn person so matter-of-factly is absolutely unacceptable.

reply from: lukesmom

LOL! They are both important. Why is the health of one more important than the other? Many 99 yr olds are healthy and lead a fullfilling life AND their health is often important to them.

reply from: Nulono

D'oh!
I meant health < life.

reply from: Rosalie

And this perfectly illustrates one of the things that is so wrong with the so-called "pro-lifers". The health of mother exception might not matter to you but it does or should matter to every single person. The fact that you dismiss it so matter-of-factly is absolutely unacceptable.
The fact you dismiss the obvious life of an unborn person so matter-of-factly is absolutely unacceptable.
Maybe to you.

reply from: Nulono

Please respect our space.

reply from: Rosalie

This is a public board.

reply from: Rosalie

This IS a public board. I am free to reply to any topic I please.

reply from: Nulono

And we are free to ignore you. And the admin is free to ban you. And I am free to tell you too leave.
Pro-life or GTFO!

reply from: ProInformed

This is a public board.
So are all those other abortion discussion forums where pro-lifers are either banned outright or attacked if they dare to post.
This is a pro-life forum that allows pro-aborts to post if they are respectful.
This thread was started by a pro-lifer who specifically stated that this thread was for pro-life purposes/responses only.
You are clearly in violation of the posting ruels by showing such disrespect and obviously have zero appreciation of the fact that the pro-life host here has allowed pro-aborts like you to post here when pro-abort forums do not extedn the same courtesy towards pro-lifers.

reply from: lukesmom

And this perfectly illustrates one of the things that is so wrong with the so-called "pro-lifers". The health of mother exception might not matter to you but it does or should matter to every single person. The fact that you dismiss it so matter-of-factly is absolutely unacceptable.
The fact you dismiss the obvious life of an unborn person so matter-of-factly is absolutely unacceptable.
Maybe to you.
You got it! Congrats!

reply from: nancyu

http://reflectworship.blogspot.com/2008/10/tiny-hands.html

reply from: Rosalie

What you still don't get is that your opinion or your so-called morality has no bearing on the lives of other people. Never has, never will.

reply from: Rosalie

I never asked you to reply to me. And of course the admin is free to ban me, you all are so hell-bent on banning everyone who dares to express a different opinion.
You have no right or authority to tell me to GTFO of a public thread.

reply from: Rosalie

This is a public board.
So are all those other abortion discussion forums where pro-lifers are either banned outright or attacked if they dare to post.
This is a pro-life forum that allows pro-aborts to post if they are respectful.
This thread was started by a pro-lifer who specifically stated that this thread was for pro-life purposes/responses only.
You are clearly in violation of the posting ruels by showing such disrespect and obviously have zero appreciation of the fact that the pro-life host here has allowed pro-aborts like you to post here when pro-abort forums do not extedn the same courtesy towards pro-lifers.
This is a forum that allows "pro-lifers" to yell absolutely despicable and horrifying insults at pro-choicers and all who disagree with you.
Any other opinion than yours is frowned upon and warrants more hatred and insults from your "ever-loving and compassionate" camp.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWH14ljM1BM&NR=1

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivABvaZj6uo&NR=1

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_maFSm1Lig

reply from: nancyu

http://www.prolifetube.org/video/2013211:Video:2211

reply from: nancyu

Benefits of On-site Witnessing
by betty baker bailey
(What follows was posted on a ProLife forum in answer to a directive from Pro-Aborts for me to "mind my own business"; as in stop witnessing on-site.)
This post is about the value of onsite witnessing to mothers and fathers in crisis. Some here seem to argue largely from a philosophical level or from a viewpoint that is exceedingly narrow - one or two experiences at most. What I'm posting here are real incidents that are representative of other similar incidents where witnessing made a huge difference in peoples' lives. These are not urban legends. I know because I lived them.
One mother went into the abortuary eying us curiously. I called out asking her if she wouldn't rather have a handmade baby blanket and cuddle her child instead of killing it. She went on in, but had her friend come out to ask if it were really true. My "yes" brought her out almost immediately. She had been under the misguided assumption that no one really cared what happened to her or her child. We gave her multiple blankets, lots of clothes, and other assistance. She would surely have aborted her child that day had we not been onsite. This mother thanked us that day and others, because she came by at least a couple more times to let us know how much she appreciated our being there. (By the way, we've had several mothers tell us they just didn't think anyone cared.)
Another incident involved a grandmother who brought her daughter in. Until she heard us calling to her, she hadn't stopped to think about it being her grandchild that she wanted aborted. All it took was the statement that the child in the womb is one-of-a-kind and irreplaceable. As it turned out, it was two unique individuals -- twins. And when the grandmother did stop to think, she also discovered her daughter in no way wanted to abort her children. What a disaster we adverted that day. Two wanted children would have died and mother and daughter would have had serious issues between them. They gratefully took blankets and thanked us repeatedly for saving their children.
One man brought his lady in, dumped her, and hastily beat his retreat. On the way out, he paused long enough for me to ask what he thought he was doing. He smilingly assured me he was just the "chauffeur". I smiled back as I asked him if I really looked that stupid and if he thought Jesus would approve. (Before you start, no, I don't always ask this. It just seemed the right thing at the time.) He laughed and drove off. A little later he came back and pulled up alongside where we were standing. I went over and we began to have a very pleasant conversation about right, wrong, and Christianity. After constantly insisting he had no control over the situation, he finally admitted it was his child and the mother did not want to abort. Further, it was only at his insistence that she was even there. I really didn't have to say much at that point. A look of "excuse me?" seemed enough. He went right in, brought her right out, and thanked us profusely for being there. Now what do say about this mother? She hadn't been given a choice. But, thanks to the onsite witness, she did get one before it was too late.
Another young man was afraid of the consequences - both of killing his child and of not hiding his indiscretion. He drove by me repeatedly, stopping almost every time to talk just a little. He was shaking like a leaf and chain smoking. Finally, he stopped and asked me just what he should do. Our previous conversations had revealed the guilt of forcing his girlfriend to kill his child was literally tearing him apart. I won't post all of our conversation here, because it was lengthy. But the reality was that he was a God fearing young man who couldn't have lived with himself had he gone through with the abortion. His girlfriend in no way wanted one anyway. My presence reminded him of his Godly grandmother which made him realize that life was the only choice he could deal with. Although I did tell him to go get her out, it was the decision he had obviously wanted to make all along. He and his grateful girlfriend came out thanking us for caring enough to be there for them.
Still another incident involved an Asian mother who couldn't understand how there could be "so much blood" (on seeing an aborted child on the "Truth Truck"). She kept saying just that to herself over and over again. She honestly thought that the child she carried was just a fleshy blob. She believed the "life" was in the blood, but she was operating under the assumption that there would be any. She drove up and started talking to us about the picture - asking if that were really an aborted child. We assured her it was. If we hadn't been there to discuss this with her, she may have just gone on in. Can you imagine her guilt if she hadn't found out until it was too late? Given her state of horror when we spoke, I think it may well have been more than she could have borne. As it was she left crying and shaking from the mistake she almost made, but thanking us gratefully for being there.
There was the mother who rode the bus through several states to get here for a "free" abortion. This woman obviously had serious mental issues. She had no money and no place to stay. And she was all alone. She came walking into the abortuary and asking that the abortionist do the procedure for free. Of course, he promptly showed her the door. We spent days trying to help this woman. In the end, her needs were met - clothes, food, etc. and one of her relatives offered to adopt her child. Although she went into the abortuary several times, they always just turned her away. Given her obvious mental anguish, there's no telling what would have happened to her had no one been there for her. Her relatives, who apparently did not know she had gone for the abortion, were very grateful that we had cared for her.
Then there are those that have come for a "procedure" not knowing what that procedure was. As bizarre as this sounds, we've seen it here. The situation sometimes arises when the patient and companion don't speak English. Apparently, on occasion, no one bothers to translate. When we see someone who acts confused and possibly doesn't speak English, we try to get someone who speaks their language to come out to speak with them. We've had them respond, after being told their appointment was with an abortionist, with great horror and disgust. One even argued, she didn't think she was pregnant! Fortunately, we were able to get her a sonogram, which proved she was indeed expecting. This couple assured us they would not have even come if they had known what they were coming for. Granted we can't actually say that the abortionist wouldn't have gotten a translator before performing the abortion, because it never went that far. But given that there were other similar incidents, one has to wonder what would have happen were no witnesses on-site.
And then there are those who abort before they realize their mistake. The abortuary employees aren't sympathetic with them - at least here they're not. No, they want them out of the way. A grieving mother is bad for business. If no witness is onsite to comfort these women and offer them help, they just don't get it. At least not right away. On-site witnesses, including myself, have repeatedly been known to put themselves in harm's way to comfort a grieving mother. When you label us the enemy, this is who you attack, someone who cares enough to act on their convictions with compassion even in the worse case scenario.
Lastly, but certainly not least, there are the children. When innocent human beings are killed, regardless of the rationale that approves it, those who see it for the abomination it is must protest. To not do so implies approval or acceptance. To not do so says those victims don't matter. For those of us who see them as precious little children it is essential that we stand up for them. When mankind ceases to care for his/her fellowman, then we become no better than animals - putting our own personal, individual desires ahead of the needs of others. Further, to say we shouldn't protest is to say we have no right to our own beliefs, and essentially, that only what the state approves should be espoused. You may want to live in a culture like that, but I certainly don't.
So, when you ask me to stop witnessing onsite, what I hear is you saying that your individual experience or your intellectual argument is more important than the experiences or beliefs of those I've helped. I hear it as your "right to kill" in private trumps their need for assistance. And I can't help but think, how selfish can you be?
These people may not matter to you and you may think their situations irrelevant, but they do matter to us. They matter to me. I've been there to see their faces, to dry their tears. Yet, you think I should listen when you tell me to "mind my own business"? You're either too far removed from the reality of the situation or too calloused to make the call. What you need to do is open up your heart to the reality that witnessing on-site meets definite needs. First, to fill in the gaps where assistance is necessary and second, to state truth of abortion - that children are being killed, mothers are being wounded and killed, and that it really does matter, at least to some of us.
(It should be stated here that not everyone is called to witness on-site. To be an effective witness takes a calling from the Lord. It is a difficult and hazardous job that should not be entered into lightly. The devil doesn't give up his prey easily. Those that are called are equipped by the Lord and clearly work in the Spirit. For those who do not believe they are called, there are other things that need to be done for the children. No one should think less of themselves simply because they aren't called to be witnesses, but rather look for the position our Lord has for you -- for there you will be blessed and be a blessing to others.)
Children of the Heart
© 2008
http://www.children-of-the-heart.net/witnessing.shtml

reply from: nancyu

http://www.children-of-the-heart.net/I-believe.shtml
© Children of the Heart 2003
Statement of Faith
While there are many secular arguments against abortion, I don't believe we assess the full value of the creation without giving just due to the Creator. In addition, since my calling in this area is by His will, it would be highly inappropriate for me to attempt this without a clear statement of faith. Therefore:
I believe that the God of the Bible is the One True God and Creator of all things (Isa 40:26, 28; Col 1:16).
I believe that He literally spoke the worlds into being (Gen 1:3, 6, 9, 14, 20 & 24).
I believe that His original plan was to have a relationship with mankind in a perfect surrounding. I believe it was man who decided it was more important to be "like God" than obedient to God (Gen. 3:5).
I believe that He is the One who decides whom is and isn't guilty (Gen 18:25).
I believe that He is just and loving to all He has made (Jer 9:24).
I believe that God and God alone has the right to take innocent life (Deut 32:39).
I believe that no matter what we think or say in the end the only thing that matters is what God says (Gen - Rev).
I believe that God is unchanging. He was "complete" in the beginning. He is "complete" now. (Contrary to popular opinion, He does not need us to guide Him along.) (Gen - Rev)
I believe that we are all responsible for our own actions and that we will give an accounting for them to Him (Gen 9:6).
I believe that every believer is responsible before God to produce fruit in keeping with faith in Him (Mat 3:10, 7:16-17, Rom 7:4).
I believe that at the point of salvation our lives are no longer our own to do with as we please, but rather we are His to command (Eph 4:1).
Further, I believe it absolutely impossible to please the Creator of life without a deep respect for life (Gen - Rev).
Personal:
The fact is God is more real to me than any person I know. I have had experiences with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. So, when people say, "There is no God". I wonder how on earth they missed Him. Since I began this Pro-life effort He has been very "present" - comforting, guiding and teaching. When I think about people who make such statements, I can't help thinking that they must have never really "looked". For me the evidence is overwhelmingly in His favor.
Pink Rose
About the Bible:
I believe that the Bible is God's word to us. I believe that though we may not fully understand the text whether or not we do has no baring on its' accuracy; which is to say that regardless of our ability to comprehend it, we are bound by its' authority. I do not believe that our circumstances or beliefs change this fact. If this were so, the laws of God would not only change daily, they would vary from person to person and society to society. There would be no reason to concern oneself overly with God. No reason to fear Him. In fact, I believe that if God, Himself, could not speak without erring there would be little, if any, reason to consider Him, God. The whole premise of a God who could create worlds, but be inept at recording His own will is, in a word, ridiculous.
Of course, our Sovereign and Worthy Creator is not, nor should He ever be considered, inept in any form or fashion. He has not only recorded what we need to know, He has done so in a way that enables us to continue to grow throughout our entire lives. In addition, He has wisely worded scripture to elude the crafty while still carefully guiding the earnest. Hence, I take all scripture literally to heart, realizing that I am fully dependent on Him for understanding.
I believe it critical that scripture not be taken out of context, but be considered in light of surrounding passages and, indeed, the entire Bible. By this I mean that one can prove any point one chooses by "picking verses". The truth, however, is revealed by looking at overall intent.
In addition, I believe that scripture is complete; which is to say that I do not believe that we are to come along now and add chapters or books of our own. It is not to say that I believe that God no longer communicates with us. Considering all He has invested in us and that it is a personal relationship that He desires with us, it would be illogical for Him to stop being personally involved in our lives now. However, I do believe that all we truly receive from God is, by the very nature of God, in line with existing scripture. I believe we must always give any "new" revelation this test of "authenticity".
I also believe the Bible is a "living" book. The more we are committed to the truth, the more we will learn from its pages.
Lastly, I believe that while much of the scripture is given for direction and understanding, some is historical record, which is not to say that nothing can be learned from records, just that not all recorded events are intended as instructions on "how to behave".
Personal:
It has been my experience that the Holy Spirit will always guide the serious student. It is required, however, that one earnestly apply oneself to the task of seeking. At one point in my life I spent every spare moment reading the New Testament over and over again as a whole. What came about was an amazing revelation that while man argues semantics, Satan is able to keep our minds off the most important issue of all - Salvation as evidenced by obedience. Not that we are saved by works, but that if we are indeed saved, we will work. Since that time it has been difficult for me to seriously engage in what many consider essential arguments to the faith (i.e. whose name is on the door, sprinkle or dunk . . . etc.). I believe God is interested in men and women who will serve Him with their whole heart regardless of where it takes them this side of heaven.
Pink Rose
About Mankind::
I believe that comprehending the relationship between God and man is imperative to any argument for life. God is the Creator. Man is the creation. While it is possible for a child to attain a higher level of achievement than his/her parents, they are both still "the created". God, alone, created life. As such, whether we admit it or not, we belong to Him.
He commands the sun to rise and set. I'm just glad that it does. He set the seasons in their place. I enjoy the variety. What I mean to say is that, if God, then His power is absolute; His way or no way. The old joke about the scientist creating man would be accurate. - "Get your own sand!" I say all this because so many seem to think that man has the ability and obligation to keep God "straight". Deciding by his own understanding which laws of God should be obeyed and which, due to "the times" or "circumstances" or whatever, are outdated and should be ignored. I submit to you that this attitude is, in reality, original sin all over again. (Please do not confuse the changing of customs for laws. We do not live in the time of Moses with burkas and floor length skirts. However, "Thou shalt not kill" is still very relevant.)
I believe that in our contacts with others we can and will (by action or inaction) affect them (at least to some degree) for eternity one way or another. As such, I believe we must make every effort to reflect the presence of Our Lord in our lives. I believe it very important to speak the truth. However, I believe it equally important that we do it with a sincere love. We should never "beat someone up" with the scriptures, but we are obligated to point out the truth where we can as we are aware of it. How will we know when what we do or fail to do will be the turning point in someone's life? Most times, we won't. So, we must speak, but always with the realization that we may affect their soul for heaven or hell. We must never forget that it was His sacrifice on the cross that gives us our only claim to heaven.
Some of you may be wondering what on earth this all has to do with the fight for life. So, let me illuminate what I see as one of the most serious problems of our day. There are circles who believe the responsibility is on God's side . They are quick to claim His blessings, provisions, etc., but ignore His command to obedience. While there can be no argument that God gives gifts to His children, it is extremely important to remind ourselves that our primary reason for existing is to give glory to God. We are not "called" to be recipients. We are called to serve. If we spend our time in pursuit of "gifts" while ignoring our own obligation, we fail to "run the race" as Paul put it.
© Children of the Heart 2003
http://www.children-of-the-heart.net/I-believe.shtml

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Your post was very good Nancyu and gave me a lot to consider; I think you have a very good view of the Bible that is faithfully consistent yet also allows for you to realise that not all of it is a literal command for us to behave in certain ways. It reminded me that I need to keep reading the Bible. I did have one question though, so if you still have me on ignore I'd like to ask someone else to quote me so she can see.
I believe that He is the One who decides whom is and isn't guilty (Gen 18:25).
I think my question in regards to that is, how can we supress bad behavior down here on Earth without judging each other?

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyFrGbAvfHc&NR=1

reply from: nancyu

The words are those of "Witness." I posted them here because I agree with her, and think she stated her beliefs beautifully.
(I will edit the post to clarify)

reply from: LiberalChiRo

The words are those of "Witness." I posted them here because I agree with her, and think she stated her beliefs beautifully.
(I will edit the post to clarify)
Thank you, that's a little clearer I think. Makes a little more sense to me anyway, or at least helps me understand it better.

reply from: nancyu

The words are those of "Witness." I posted them here because I agree with her, and think she stated her beliefs beautifully.
(I will edit the post to clarify)
I think that we do need to judge one another down here on earth (even though God will be the ultimate judge) But if we do, we should realize that we will be judged in return. (my words, my belief~Nancy)
I only had you on ignore to save myself from being irritated. I like a break once in a while. I don't completely ignore anyone, I peak once in a while.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

The words are those of "Witness." I posted them here because I agree with her, and think she stated her beliefs beautifully.
(I will edit the post to clarify)
I think that we do need to judge one another down here on earth (even though God will be the ultimate judge) But if we do, we should realize that we will be judged in return. (my words, my belief~Nancy)
I only had you on ignore to save myself from being irritated. I like a break once in a while. I don't completely ignore anyone, I peak once in a while.
I'm sorry for having irritated you. I sometimes need to take breaks from people too ^^

reply from: nancyu

The words are those of "Witness." I posted them here because I agree with her, and think she stated her beliefs beautifully.
(I will edit the post to clarify)
I think that we do need to judge one another down here on earth (even though God will be the ultimate judge) But if we do, we should realize that we will be judged in return. (my words, my belief~Nancy)
I only had you on ignore to save myself from being irritated. I like a break once in a while. I don't completely ignore anyone, I peak once in a while.
I'm sorry for having irritated you. I sometimes need to take breaks from people too ^^
Apology accepted, thanks.
I will apologize as well, and hope we'll have better days ahead.

reply from: BooBear

I'm new to this forum, although I post daily on Nursing Link in their pro life threads, some of which I started. I'm a bit perplexed as to why so many pro "choice" individuals choose to post in topics they know are clearly pro life. Is it simply to stir the pot? I have yet to see one valid argument for pro "choice" in this thread.

reply from: nancyu

Good question. I have yet to see one valid argument for pro "choice" anywhere.
Maybe they're pro life at heart, they just don't know it yet. (?) If they post in this topic, they are implying (aren't they?) that they wish to protect ALL unborn persons.
Welcome to the forum!

reply from: nancyu

http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=4497&enterthread=y
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=5365&enterthread=y
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=4499&enterthread=y

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Good question. I have yet to see one valid argument for pro "choice" anywhere.
Maybe they're pro life at heart, they just don't know it yet. (?) If they post in this topic, they are implying (aren't they?) that they wish to protect ALL unborn persons.
Welcome to the forum!
I think that's actually a good way to look at it. We should view every single person who comes to this site as a pro-choicer as a potential pro-lifer.

reply from: nancyu

The words are those of "Witness." I posted them here because I agree with her, and think she stated her beliefs beautifully.
(I will edit the post to clarify)
I think that we do need to judge one another down here on earth (even though God will be the ultimate judge) But if we do, we should realize that we will be judged in return. (my words, my belief~Nancy)
I only had you on ignore to save myself from being irritated. I like a break once in a while. I don't completely ignore anyone, I peak once in a while.
I'm sorry for having irritated you. I sometimes need to take breaks from people too ^^
Apology accepted, thanks.
I will apologize as well, and hope we'll have better days ahead.
Well so much for that hope.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.sba-list.org/c.ddJBKJNsFqG/b.4179747/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?aid=10104
http://www.sba-list.org/c.ddJBKJNsFqG/b.4179747/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?aid=11074
http://www.sba-list.org/c.ddJBKJNsFqG/b.4179747/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?aid=10137

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2o1uxzI-hA

reply from: nancyu

get your spam sanwiches here...What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: yoda

faux-lifer status list: LibRoachiO,Carolemurry,bowelmovement,rivermoonie,farismea

reply from: faithman

Snicker... cheeze pleeze

reply from: ProInformed

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...

reply from: nancyu

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...
Well consider yourself counted!

reply from: faithman

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...
Well consider yourself counted!
Me to me to me to!!!!! Do haters count?!

reply from: nancyu

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...
Well consider yourself counted!
Me to me to me to!!!!! Do haters count?!
I do. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....
How many do we have now Yoda?

reply from: nancyu

How many lives has this topic saved? Let's ask the owl...

reply from: faithman

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...
Well consider yourself counted!
Me to me to me to!!!!! Do haters count?!
I do. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....
How many do we have now Yoda?
Took me a while to get that one.... snicker. Of course after 10 the shows come off...

reply from: nancyu

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...
Well consider yourself counted!
Me to me to me to!!!!! Do haters count?!
I do. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....
How many do we have now Yoda?
Took me a while to get that one.... snicker. Of course after 10 the shows come off...
It's taking me a long while to get that one. Okay, I admit it. I don't get it. the shows? after 10? Nope, I don't get it. Help, anyone?

reply from: faithman

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...
Well consider yourself counted!
Me to me to me to!!!!! Do haters count?!
I do. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....
How many do we have now Yoda?
Took me a while to get that one.... snicker. Of course after 10 the shows come off...
It's taking me a long while to get that one. Okay, I admit it. I don't get it. the shows? after 10? Nope, I don't get it. Help, anyone?
Sorry for the typo, I meant shoes...

reply from: nancyu

Count me in.
Between being a choicist and a pro-lifer there was a period of time (relatively short compared to the lengths of time I was either 'pro-choice' or pro-life) when I was still undecided about the 'hard cases'. But as soon as I learned the facts I stopped defending abortion period. Nobody had to tell me over and over and over again why abortion isn't truly needed even for the rare 'hard cases'... while I pretended I'd still hadn't been told the truth... but then again I wasn't merely pretending to to be changing away from my pro-abort POV...
Well consider yourself counted!
Me to me to me to!!!!! Do haters count?!
I do. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....
How many do we have now Yoda?
Took me a while to get that one.... snicker. Of course after 10 the shows come off...
It's taking me a long while to get that one. Okay, I admit it. I don't get it. the shows? after 10? Nope, I don't get it. Help, anyone?
Sorry for the typo, I meant shoes...
Oh. okay.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7iFfmPPS4&feature=related

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJAVUWDJ-KE&feature=channelAbortion: Personhood of the Unborn, Your Comments Answered

reply from: yoda

My thoughts are more along the lines of how many good prolifers we have here now, let me count them..... I count about 16 on the "personhood" thread, so that works for me.

reply from: nancyu

My thoughts are more along the lines of how many good prolifers we have here now, let me count them..... I count about 16 on the "personhood" thread, so that works for me.
Yup, 16 is what I count, but that's just here on the forum. There are several more out there.
And how many faux lifers? cm, lcr, bm, scop, faris, cm2, rml... I only count 7. I think we are the majority. What do you think they'll do when they discover they're in the minority?!!!

reply from: scopia19822

"I think we are the majority. What do you think they'll do when they discover they're in the minority?!!!"
Better wake up and smell the coffee if you think your the majority on here. I only count you, Yoda, CL2 and Fman, everyone else is suspect if they havent been "blacklisted" already.

reply from: nancyu

First of all, you're not counting right, and second of all, I'm not interested in being part of the majority. If I were I would become an ant or a cockroach.

reply from: Faramir

My thoughts are more along the lines of how many good prolifers we have here now, let me count them..... I count about 16 on the "personhood" thread, so that works for me.
Yup, 16 is what I count, but that's just here on the forum. There are several more out there.
And how many faux lifers? cm, lcr, bm, scop, faris, cm2, rml... I only count 7. I think we are the majority. What do you think they'll do when they discover they're in the minority?!!!
I believe in personhood from the moment of conception too.
I would be interested in your resoning as to why I am "faux."

reply from: scopia19822

"First of all, you're not counting right, and second of all, I'm not interested in being part of the majority. If I were I would become an ant or a cockroach."
Not counting right? On this forum its you, Yoda, Fman and CL2 and in the prolife community you would still be a small minority I think an ant or a cockroach would do this movement alot more good than people like you.

reply from: scopia19822

"I believe in personhood from the moment of conception too.
I would be interested in your resoning as to why I am "faux.""
Morally Fariamir I agree with you, but I was talking about implantation being the point of personhood from a legal POV. However I dont see why a rape victim should be denied the MAP and the topic of a woman using BC is a moral one the government should stay out of. And there is no rational reasoning with these haters.

reply from: Faramir

If they really want to "group" themselves properly, there are four of them that are all in the same boat, and I would not want to be in that boat if I were on the Titanic.

reply from: nancyu

My thoughts are more along the lines of how many good prolifers we have here now, let me count them..... I count about 16 on the "personhood" thread, so that works for me.
Yup, 16 is what I count, but that's just here on the forum. There are several more out there.
And how many faux lifers? cm, lcr, bm, scop, faris, cm2, rml... I only count 7. I think we are the majority. What do you think they'll do when they discover they're in the minority?!!!
I believe in personhood from the moment of conception too.
I would be interested in your resoning as to why I am "faux."
I just don't like you.

reply from: scopia19822

"I just don't like you."
Spoken like an elementary school child. Are you going to go eat some dirt and worms next.

reply from: nancyu

I don't like you either, and what are you doing posting in this thread, can't you read the title?

reply from: scopia19822

" I don't like you either, and what are you doing posting in this thread, can't you read the title?"
Its a PUBLIC forum and despite your narrow minded bigoted ideas I oppose abortion. If you want to keep others like me from posting than you should have made it a PRIVATE thread. Since you didnt do it, I have a right to post here.

reply from: Faramir

Thank you. That's a very good reason to call someone who desires legal protection of embryos, fetuses, and zygotes, a "faux-lifer."

reply from: nancyu

Do as you please. I'm just saying you're being dishonest by posting here unless you are:
(FYI, that does include those that haven't implanted yet)

reply from: Faramir

Thank you. That's a very good reason to call someone who desires legal protection of embryos, fetuses, and zygotes, a "faux-lifer."
And it demonstrates the clear logic behind your thinking and those in your club.
You are superb examples of the intelligence and compassion that fuels the pro-life movement.

reply from: scopia19822

"You are superb examples of the intelligence and compassion that fuels the pro-life movement."
I hope that was a sarcastic comment.

reply from: yoda

Recruit more fake prolifers to troll the forum?

reply from: yoda

If we wanted you to see the list, we'd invite you back. But we don't.

reply from: yoda

Do you see any reason why a rape victim should be denied an abortion?

reply from: scopia19822

"If we wanted you to see the list, we'd invite you back. But we don't."
Your getting more juvenile everyday. Who really cares if they are a member of your stupid hate club except you and your minions. If your going to say that people on here are faux lifers and you werent such a coward you would reveal the list, but since your a coward I dont expect you to act like anything else.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91KdaNNxV4w

reply from: nancyu

Early and Very Early Parenting
Very Early Parenting: An African Model
A Child's Song
There is a tribe in Africa where the birth date of a child is counted not from when they've been born, nor from when they are conceived but from the day that the child was a thought in its mother's mind.
And when a woman decides that she will have a child, she goes off and sits under a tree, by herself, and she listens until she can hear the song of the child that wants to come. And after she's heard the song of this child, she comes back to the man who will be the child's father, and teaches it to him. And then, when they make love to physically conceive the child, some of that time they sing the song of the child, as a way to invite it.
And then, when the mother is pregnant, the mother teaches that child's song to the midwives and the old women of the village, so that when the child is born, the old women and the people around her sing the child's song to welcome it. And then, as the child grows up, the other villagers are taught the child's song. If the child falls, or hurts its knee, someone picks it up and sings its song to it. Or perhaps the child does something wonderful, or goes through the rites of puberty, then as a way of honoring this person, the people of the village sing his or her song.
And it goes this way through their life. In marriage, the songs are sung, together. And finally, when this child is lying in bed, ready to die, all the villagers know his or her song, and they sing--for the last time--the song to that person.http://www.birthpsychology.com/lifebefore/early2.html

reply from: micah

What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: BossMomma

>> NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION
>>
>>
>>
>> This is probably one of the better e-mails I've seen in a long, long
>> time.
>> The following has been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Kaye
>> from GA. This guy should run for President one day...:
>>
>>
>> 'We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help
>> everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots,
>> keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure th e
>> blessings
>> of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our
>> great-great-great-grandchildren,
>> hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense
>> guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other
>> constant bed-wetters. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a
>> whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim
>> they
>> require
>> a Bill of NON-Rights.'
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE I: You do NOT have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any
>> other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them,
>> but no one is guaranteeing anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This
>> country
>> is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just yo
>> u!
>> You may leave
>> the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the
>> world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.
>>
>>
>> </
>> ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you
>> stick
>> a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the
>> tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently
>> wealthy.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing.
>> Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly
>> help
>> anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing
>> generation
>> after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more
>> than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes .
>> (This one is my pet peeve...get an education and go to work....don't
>> expect
>> everyone else to take care of you!)
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would
>> be
>> nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in
>> public health care.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE VI: You do
>> not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap,
>> rape,
>> intentionally maim, or kill someone, http://www.lifeissues.org/ultrasound/11weeks.htm don't be surprised if the rest of us
>> want to see you fry in the electric chair.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others!
>> If
>> you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens,
>> don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a
>> place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a
>> life of leisure.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want
>> you
>> to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard
>> times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of
>> education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself
>> useful.
>> (AMEN!)
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American
>> means that you have the right to PURSUE
>> happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by
>> an
>> over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused
>> by
>> the Bill of Rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you
>> are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you
>> came from! (Lastly....)
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or
>> heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God..
>> And
>> yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any
>> faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN
>> GOD
>> WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are
>> uncomfortable
>> with it, TOUGH!
>>
>>
>> If you agree, share this with a friend. No, you don't have to, and
>> nothing
>> tragic will befall you if you don't. I just think it's about time common
>> sense is allowed to flourish. Sensible people of the United States
>> speak
>> out.....because if you don't, who will?
>>

reply from: nancyu

Hey, LQQK! We've got some choicers helping to dish out the spam!

reply from: yoda

Looks like ole FMan finally got through to one of them.....

reply from: BossMomma

>> NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION
>>
>>
>>
>> This is probably one of the better e-mails I've seen in a long, long
>> time.
>> The following has been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Kaye
>> from GA. This guy should run for President one day...:
>>
>>
>> 'We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help
>> everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots,
>> keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure th e
>> blessings
>> of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our
>> great-great-great-grandchildren,
>> hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense
>> guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other
>> constant bed-wetters. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a
>> whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim
>> they
>> require
>> a Bill of NON-Rights.'
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE I: You do NOT have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any
>> other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them,
>> but no one is guaranteeing anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This
>> country
>> is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just yo
>> u!
>> You may leave
>> the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the
>> world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.
>>
>>
>> </
>> ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you
>> stick
>> a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the
>> tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently
>> wealthy.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing.
>> Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly
>> help
>> anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing
>> generation
>> after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more
>> than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes .
>> (This one is my pet peeve...get an education and go to work....don't
>> expect
>> everyone else to take care of you!)
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would
>> be
>> nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in
>> public health care.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE VI: You do
>> not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap,
>> rape,
>> intentionally maim, or kill someone, http://www.lifeissues.org/ultrasound/11weeks.htm don't be surprised if the rest of us
>> want to see you fry in the electric chair.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others!
>> If
>> you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens,
>> don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a
>> place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a
>> life of leisure.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want
>> you
>> to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard
>> times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of
>> education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself
>> useful.
>> (AMEN!)
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American
>> means that you have the right to PURSUE
>> happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by
>> an
>> over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused
>> by
>> the Bill of Rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you
>> are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you
>> came from! (Lastly....)
>>
>>
>>
>> ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or
>> heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God..
>> And
>> yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any
>> faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN
>> GOD
>> WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are
>> uncomfortable
>> with it, TOUGH!
>>
>>
>> If you agree, share this with a friend. No, you don't have to, and
>> nothing
>> tragic will befall you if you don't. I just think it's about time common
>> sense is allowed to flourish. Sensible people of the United States
>> speak
>> out.....because if you don't, who will?

reply from: nancyu

I just found this in an old topic:

reply from: nancyu

That's where you went wrong Cecilia. Looking at medical textbooks helped you to dehuminize your child. Did the textbooks you looked at describe an abortion? How was it described? Did they help you to see your child as a clump of cells, as a fetus, something not quite human?
Then there are the legal textbooks and experts that make you believe that abortion is legal, therefore acceptable.
You made a choice to kill your child, so you decide to encourage others to do the same. "If it is okay for me, then who am I to say it isn't right for someone else" right?
Wrong. Abortion kills a human being.

reply from: Rosalie

Looking at medical books helps you to learn facts. There's no propaganda in there. There are facts. I find it interesting that you cannot cope with the FACTS. That you have to use lies, propaganda and false emotions. It's very telling.

reply from: faithman

Looking at medical books helps you to learn facts. There's no propaganda in there. There are facts. I find it interesting that you cannot cope with the FACTS. That you have to use lies, propaganda and false emotions. It's very telling.
What the bortheads, and the false pro-lifers do not understand, is that there is more to life than this physical world, and our physical bodies. Our bodies are merely the containers of the precious substance Called life. Life has to have that container to express itself in the natural world. Even if the container is flawed, it still makes it possible for the miracle of life to be expressed. Our common value is not found in the container, but what is contained. The life of a womb child is equal to the life contained in all of us. The only legitimate breaking of this container, is if it has the compunction to smash other containers without cause. When you take way the ability to express life, you loose the great privilege to express your own. Evil aggression must be subdued, or no container can have any security from unjust breakage. To take away the possibility of this wonderful spark of life to be expressed, makes this world a darker place, and the rest of us containers a little more impoverished, and alone. Though the womb child is a small container, it does not lessen the value of the life it contains. If fellow containers do not value the life of the womb child container, then they have placed their personhood container in great jeopardy. Anyone who does not see that womb children are fellow human containers, containing life of equal value to their own, is a self destructive fool, drunk on the power to kill, and must be stopped for the sake of the rest of us life containers. It is the life in us that makes us equal, not our degree of ability to express it.

reply from: scopia19822

"Looking at medical books helps you to learn facts. There's no propaganda in there. There are facts. I find it interesting that you cannot cope with the FACTS. That you have to use lies, propaganda and false emotions. It's very telling."
Funny how one can interpret whats in medical books or biology and anotomy books.
Every medical, anatomy and biology text that I have seen on the topic of human development tells me that a human being is formed when sperm meets egg and when that baby implants if left alone it will grow and develop. I could base my prolife ethics/worldview on medical and scienctific eveidence alone.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dES__oKOw74&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuelupX7rMk&feature=related

reply from: yoda

This thread makes me so glad I've got Rosie on iggy.....

reply from: yoda

Well done, but I wish they could turn up the sound level a bit.

reply from: nancyu

From epm.org
54 Babies
Posted in: Standing for Life
By George F. Will
CHINO HILLS, Calif.: Where Route 71 crosses over Payton Drive, at the bottom of the steeply sloping embankment, two boys, who were playing nearby, found the boxes. The boys bicycled home and said they had found boxes of "babies."
Do not be impatient with the imprecision of their language. They have not read the opposite Supreme Court opinions. So when they stumbled on the boxes stuffed with 54 fetuses, which looked a lot like babies, they jumped to conclusions. Besides, young boys are apt to believe their eyes rather than the Supreme Court.
The first count came to a lot less than 54. Forgive the counters' imprecision. Many fetuses had been dismembered-hands, arms, legs, heads jumbled together-by the abortionist's vigor. An accurate count required a lot of sorting out.
The fetuses had been dumped here, about 30 miles east of Los Angeles, on March 14, 1997, by a trucker who may not have known what the Los Angeles abortion clinic had hired him to dispose of. He later served 71 days in jail for the improper disposal of medical waste. Society must be strict about its important standards.
What local authorities dealt with as a problem of solid waste disposal struck a few local residents as rather more troubling than that. They started talking to each other, and one thing led to another, and to the formation of Cradles of Love, which had the modest purpose of providing a burial for the 54 babies.
The members of Cradles of Love-just a few normal walking-around middle-class Americans-called them babies, and still do. These people are opposed to abortion, in spite of the Supreme Court's assurance in 1973 that abortions end only "potential life." (Twenty-five years later the Supreme Court has not yet explained how a life that is merely "potential" can be ended.)
Some will say the members of Cradles of Love, who are churchgoers, have been unduly influenced by theology. Or perhaps the real culprit is biology. It teaches that after the DNA of the sperm fuse with those of the ovum a new and unique DNA complex is formed that directs the growth of the organism. It soon is called a fetus, which takes in nourishment and converts it to energy through its own distinct, unique organic functioning, and very soon it looks a lot like a baby.
Anyway, theology or biology or maybe their eyes told the members of Cradles of Love that there were some babies in need of burials. So they asked the coroner to give them the fetuses. Then the American Civil Liberties Union was heard from.
It professed itself scandalized by this threat to . . . what? The ACLU frequently works itself into lathers of anxiety about threats to the separation of church and state. It is difficult, however, to identify any person whose civil liberties were going to be menaced if the fetuses were (these are the ACLU's words) "released to the church groups for the express purpose of holding religious services." The ACLU said it opposed "facilitation" of services by a public official.
The ACLU's attack on the constitutionally protected right to the free exercise of religion failed to intimidate, and in October the babies were buried in a plot provided at no charge by a cemetery in nearby Riverside.
Each baby was given a name by a participating church group. Each name was engraved on a brass plate that was affixed to each of the 54 small, white, wooden caskets made, at no charge, by a volunteer who took three days off from work to do it. Fifty clergy and four persons active in the right-to-life movement carried the caskets. Each baby's name is inscribed on a large headstone, also provided at no charge. Fifty-four doves, provided at no charge by the cemetery, were released at the services.
The ACLU trembled for the Constitution.
We hear much about the few "extremists" in the right-to-life movement. But the vast majority of the movement's members are like the kindly, peaceable people here, who were minding their own business until some of the results of the abortion culture tumbled down a roadside embankment and into their lives.
Which is not to say that this episode was untainted by ugly extremism. It would be nice if the media, which are nothing if not diligent in documenting and deploring right-to-life extremism, could bring themselves to disapprove the extremism of the ACLU, which here attempted a bullying nastiness unredeemed by any connection to a civic purpose.

Permissions: Feel free to reproduce and distribute any articles written by Randy Alcorn, in part or in whole, in any format, provided that you do not alter the wording in any way or charge a fee beyond the cost of reproduction. It is our desire to spread this information, not protect or restrict it. Please include the following statement on any distributed copy: by Randy Alcorn, Eternal Perspective Ministries, 39085 Pioneer Blvd., Suite 206, Sandy, OR 97055, 503-668-5200, www.epm.org, www.randyalcorn.blogspot.com
Eternal Perspective Ministries, 39085 Pioneer Blvd., Suite 206, Sandy, OR 97055
Phone: 503-668-5200 I Email: info@epm.org
©2008 Eternal Perspective Ministries. All rights reserved.

reply from: angelofsorrow

I get pro life cards from Life Dynamics,Inc. They're the size of business cards with
an assortment of pro life messages. I place them in post offices, shelves,
supermarket bulletin boards,etc. They are usually taken away by persons unknown
to me but I go right back within a few days and place another card there. I feel I
have the right to put these cards where I want to. If the people who are taking
down these cards are offended nobody is forcing them to read these cards. It's
possible some of these "offended" people probably want to censor me. I'm angry
that taxes comes out of my family's paychecks to pay for abortions. This keeps me
going in my pro life endeavors.

reply from: nancyu

http://feministsforlife.org/video/i-am-that-exception.htm

reply from: faithman

Great video, on a great site, from a great organization. You might say, I think it is great....

reply from: nancyu

http://www.resistnet.com/video/bikingforbabies-1
http://www.bikingforbabies.com/
Go Jimmy and Mike!

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SilOTHEUhRA&feature=sdig&et=1236733306.57

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_AwhHs928o&NR=1
Well I disagree, but this is a great song, and a great video.

reply from: nancyu

Originally posted by: nancyu
Pro aborts click http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?scram001.wav=scram
And http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?skedad01.wav=skedaddle
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?begone01.wav=begone
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?leave001.wav=leave
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bye_by01.wav=bye-bye

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/user/SNUFFsurgeryNEWS
Just came across this channel on youtube. I liked the wallpaper so much, just had to post the link.

reply from: ProInformed

"7 WEEKS GESTATION:
Spontaneous movement begins. The baby begins to develop a whole collection of moves including hiccuping, frowning, squinting, furrowing the brow, pursing the lips, moving individual arms and legs, head turning, touching the face, breathing (without air), stretching, opening the mouth, yawning, and sucking."

reply from: ProInformed

Why should we pro-lifers, in this PRO-LIFE FORUM, settle for letting pro-abort trolls post whatever they want in threads that they were specifically told to stay out of?
Rosie and other pro-abort trolls like spinfibby should have lost their posting priveledges long ago.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.ru4life.info/
Thank you RU4Life! (and I Am)

reply from: ProInformed

I am definitely adding this to the lunatic fringe thread!
As if it's not sick enough that those innocent babies were killed but then to hatefully try to deny those babies a decent burial too?
What sort of sick and shamefully sociopathic HATERS are they?
Sheesh!

reply from: nancyu

Corrected Link to ru4life
http://www.ru4life.info/

reply from: nancyu

http://hopehousemaine.com/Newsletter-Spring-2009.pdf

reply from: nancyu

http://www.personhoodusa.com/

reply from: Faramir

Agreed.
And sadly, most of them are pro-life.

reply from: Faramir

Why should we pro-lifers, in this PRO-LIFE FORUM, settle for letting pro-abort trolls post whatever they want in threads that they were specifically told to stay out of?
Rosie and other pro-abort trolls like spinfibby should have lost their posting priveledges long ago.
The most horribly abusive things said by prolifers towards other prolifers have been tolerated. What spinny and rosie come up with is chicken feed in comparison.

reply from: yoda

Because they are given that right by the owners of this forum, and we have no power to take it away from them or to keep them out of any threads. That leaves us with few choices, and my choice is to ignore posts from posters who are deliberately provocative, and/or constantly try to change the subject, and concentrate on positive things whenever possible.

reply from: ProInformed

That was very interesting.
I've also heard that in ancient Chinese culture a baby was considered to be one year old at birth instead of a year later.

reply from: scopia19822

"The most horribly abusive things said by prolifers towards other prolifers have been tolerated. What spinny and rosie come up with is chicken feed in comparison."
I take what spinny says with a grain of salt and to give the devil his due, spinny does not go around calling people a misogynist who disagree with her. I dont like what spinny stands for, but at least her post can be downright humerous at times. Rosie on the other hand has nothing to say other than anyone who opposes abortion is a woman hater and comes here posting her drivel, and personally attacks everyone who disagrees with her and refuses to debate the topic at hand. She is a troll and needs to go back under her bridge.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.cpforlife.org/dc0f40e0.jpg
Study of a Womb, c. 1489
Leonardo da Vinci
If people don't know by now, that it is a person who is killed by abortion there is something very wrong with their brain function.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=108056211759&h=4xpZz&u=UyYRL
http://www.universalleonardo.org/trail.php?trail=345&work=334

reply from: Yuuki

Leonardo and his contemporaries also believed women were incapable of making life, and that it was actually the man's vigor and the sperm that actually brought the inert material of the womb to life. This is also why men felt women couldn't be great artists, because we "lacked the ability to create life" in paintings.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4XxXEwRqCI

reply from: yoda

What would a day here be without Fartamire attacking prolifers in general?
Peaceful?

reply from: yoda

All I get is "an error occurred, please try again later".

reply from: Yuuki

Unborn children don't have religions. Or sexualities for that matter, and you did fail to mention that. Aside from that, I fully agree.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_8tAUB4w1o&feature=related

reply from: sander

Simply beautiful.
Out of the mouths of babes.....
There are some so called prolifers on here that could learn from this darling young lady.
Thanks for posting this, Nancy.
It givees me hope that there is a portion of the younger generations that values all life.
These proaborts are never going to see the day when they won't have to defend their repugnant beliefs.

reply from: nancyu

Simply beautiful.
Out of the mouths of babes.....
There are some so called prolifers on here that could learn from this darling young lady.
Thanks for posting this, Nancy.
It givees me hope that there is a portion of the younger generations that values all life.
These proaborts are never going to see the day when they won't have to defend their repugnant beliefs.
It's sad. They think they are "winning". But they are sooo lost.

reply from: nancyu

Nah, I'm a recovering pro-lifer. I saw the light and became pro-choice.
Told ya she's schizo.

reply from: nancyu

http://grandpashook.com/

reply from: nancyu

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Abortion in the Bible and Church History
Jesus Christ with little children.
There is a small but influential circle of prochoice advocates who claim to base their beliefs on the Bible. They maintain that "nowhere does the Bible prohibit abortion." [1] Yet the Bible clearly prohibits the killing of innocent people (Exodus 20:13). All that is necessary to prove a biblical prohibition of abortion is to demonstrate that the Bible considers the unborn to be human beings.
Personhood in the Bible
A number of ancient societies opposed abortion, [2] but the ancient Hebrew society had the clearest reasons for doing so because of its foundations in the scriptures. The Bible teaches that men and women are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). As the climax of God's creation mankind has an intrinsic worth far greater than that of the animal kingdom placed under His care. Throughout the Scriptures, personhood is never measured by age, stage of development, or mental, physical, or social skills. Personhood is endowed by God at the moment of creation - before which there was not a human being and after which there is. That moment of creation can be nothing other than the moment of conception.
The Hebrew word used in the Old Testament to refer to the unborn (Exodus 21:22-25) is yeled, a word that "generally indicates young children, but may refer to teens or even young adults." [3] The Hebrews did not have or need a separate word for unborn children. They were just like any other children, only younger. In the Bible there are references to born children and unborn children, but there is no such thing as a potential, incipient, or "almost" child.
Job graphically described the way God created him before he was born (Job 10:8-12). The person in the womb was not something that might become Job, but someone who was Job, just a younger version of the same man. To Isaiah, God says, "This is what the Lord says - he who made you, who formed you in the womb" (Isaiah 44:2). What each person is, not merely what he might become, was present in his mother's womb.
Psalm 139:13-16 paints a graphic picture of the intimate involvement of God with a preborn person. God created David's "inmost being," not at birth, but before birth. David says to his Creator, "You knit me together in my mother's womb." Each person, regardless of his parentage of handicap, has not been manufactured on a cosmic assembly line, but has been personally knitted together by God in the womb. All the days of his life have been planned out by God before any have come to be (Psalm 139:16).
As a member of the human race that has rejected God, each person sinned "in Adam," and is therefore a sinner from his very beginning (Romans 5:12-19). David says, "Surely I was sinful at birth." Then he goes back even further, back before birth to the actual beginning of his life, saying he was "sinful from the time my mother conceived me" (Psalm 51:5). Each person has a sinful nature from the point of conception. Who but an actual person can have a sinful nature? Rocks and trees and animals and human organs do not have moral natures, good or bad. Morality can be ascribed only to a person. That there is a sin nature at the point of conception demonstrates that there is a person present who is capable of having such a nature.
Jacob was given prominence over his twin Esau "though not yet born" (Romans 9:11). When Rebekah was pregnant with Jacob and Esau, Scriptures says, "The babies jostled each other within her" (Genesis 25:22). The unborn are regarded as "babies" in the full sense of the term. God tells Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" (Jeremiah 1:5). He could not know Jeremiah in his mother's womb unless Jeremiah, the person, was present in his mother's womb. The Creator is involved in an intimate knowing relationship not only with born people, but with unborn people.
In Luke 1:41,44 there are references to the unborn John the Baptist, who was at the end of his second trimester in the womb. The word, translated baby, in these verses is the Greek word brephos. It is the same word used for the already born baby Jesus (Luke 2:12, 16) and for the babies brought to Jesus to receive His blessing (Luke 18:15-17). It is also the same word used in Acts 7:19 for the newborn babies killed by Pharaoh. To the writers of the New Testament, like the Old, whether born or unborn, a baby is simply a baby. It appears that the preborn John the Baptist responded to the presence of the preborn Jesus in His mother Mary when Jesus was probably no more than ten days beyond His conception (Luke 1:41).
The angel Gabriel told Mary that she would be "with child and give birth to a son" (Luke 1:31). In the first century, and in every century, to be pregnant is to be with child, not with that which might become a child. The Scriptures teach the psychosomatic unity of the whole person, body, soul, and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23). Wherever there is a genetically distinct living human being, there is a living soul and spirit.
Woman with children.The Status of the Unborn
One scholar states: "Looking at Old Testament law from a proper cultural and historical context, it is evident that the life of the unborn is put on the same par as the person outside the womb." [4]
When understood as a reference to miscarriage, Exodus 21:22-25 is sometimes used as evidence that the unborn is subhuman. But a proper understanding of the passage shows reference is not to a miscarriage, but to a premature birth, and that the "injury" referred to, which is to be compensated for like all other injuries, applies to the child as well as to his mother. This means that, "far from justifying permissive abortion, in fact grants the unborn child a status in the eyes of the law equal to the mother's." [5]
Meredith Cline observes, "The most significant thing about abortion legislation in Biblical law is that there is none. It was so unthinkable that an Israelite woman should desire an abortion that there was no need to mention this offense in the criminal code." [6] All that was necessary to prohibit an abortion was the command, "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13). Every Israelite knew that the preborn child was indeed a child. Therefore, miscarriage was always viewed as the loss of a child and abortion as the killing of a child.
Numbers 5:11-31 is an unusual passage of Scripture used to make a central argument in A Prochoice Bible Study, published by Episcopalians for Religious Freedom. [7] They cite the New English Bible's peculiar translation, which makes it sound as if God brings a miscarriage on a woman if she is unfaithful to her husband. Other translations refer to a wasting of the thigh and swelling of her abdomen, but do not take it to mean pregnancy, which would presumably simply be called that directly if it were in mind.
The woman could have been pregnant by her husband, assuming they had been having sex, which Hebrews couples normally did. It appears that God was expected to do some kind of miracle related to the bitter water, creating a dramatic physical reaction if adultery had been committed. The text gives no indication of either pregnancy of abortion. Indeed, in the majority of cases of suspected adultery, there would be no pregnancy and therefore no child at risk.
The Prochoice Bible Study that cites the NEB's unique translation suggests if God indeed causes miscarriage, it would therefore be an endorsements of people causing abortions. This is a huge stretch, since neither the wife, husband, nor priest made the decision to induce an abortion, nor would they have the right to do so. The passage does not seem to refer to a miscarriage at all; but even if it did, there is a certainly nothing to suggest any endorsement of human beings initiating an abortion.
Infant to be sacrificed.Child Sacrifice
Child sacrifice is condemned throughout Scripture. Only the most degraded societies tolerated such evil, and the worst of these defended and celebrated it as if it were a virtue. Ancient dumping grounds have been found filled with the bones of hundreds of dismembered infants. This is strikingly similar to discoveries of thousands of dead babies discarded by modern abortion clinics. One scholar of the ancient Near East refers to infant sacrifice as "the Canaanite counterpart to abortion." [8] Unlike the pagan sacrifices, however, with abortion, child killing need no longer be postponed till birth.
Scripture condemns the shedding of innocent blood (Deuteronomy 19:10; Proverbs 6:17; Isaiah 1:15; Jeremiah 22:17). While the killing of all innocent human beings is detestable, the Bible regards the killing of children as particularly heinous (Leviticus 18:21; 20:1-5; Deuteronomy 12:31). The prophets of Israel were outraged at the sacrifice of children by some of the Jews. They warned that it would result in the devastating judgment of God on their society (Jeremiah 7:30-34; Ezekiel 16:20-21, 36-38; 20:31; compare 2 Kings 21:2-6 and Jeremiah 15:3-4).
Biblical woman and man.Abortion and Church History
Christians throughout church history have affirmed with a united voice the humanity of the preborn child. [9] The second-century Epistle of Barnabas speaks of "killers of the child, who abort the mold of God." It treats the unborn child as any other human "neighbor" by saying, "You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay a child by abortion. You shall not kill that which has already been generated" (Epistle of Barnabas 19:5).
The Didache, a second-century catechism for young converts, states, "Do not murder a child by abortion or kill a newborn infant" (Didache 2.2). Clement of Alexandria maintained that "those who use abortifacient medicines to hide their fornication cause not only the outright murder of the fetus, but of the whole human race as well" (Paedogus 2:10.96.1).
Defending Christians before Marcus Aurelius in A.D. 177, Athenagoras argued, "What reason would we have to commit murder when we say that women who induce abortions are murderers, and will have to give account of it to God? ...The fetus in the womb is a living being and therefore the object of God's care" (A Plea for the Christians, 35.6).
Tertullian said, "It does not matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to the birth. In both instances, destruction is murder" (Apology, 9.4). Basil the Great affirmed, "Those who give abortifacients for the destruction of a child conceived in the womb are murderers themselves, along with those receiving the poisons" (Canons, 188.2). Jerome called abortion "the murder of an unborn child" (Letter to Eustochium, 22.13). Augustine warned against the terrible crime of "the murder of an unborn child" (On Marriage, 1.17.15). Origen, Cyprian, and Chrysotom were among the many other prominent theologians and church leaders who condemned abortion as the killing of children. New Testament scholar Bruce Metzger comments, "It is really remarkable how uniform and how pronounced was the early Christian opposition to abortion." [10]
Throughout the centuries, Roman Catholic leaders have consistently upheld the sanctity of human life. Likewise, Protestant reformer John Calvin followed both the Scriptures and the historical position of the church when he affirmed:
The fetus, though enclosed in the womb of its mother, is already a human being, and it is a most monstrous crime to rob it of the life, which it has not yet begun to enjoy. If it seems more horrible to kill a man in his own house than in a field, because a man's house is his place of most secure refuge, it ought surely to be deemed more atrocious to destroy a fetus in the womb before it has come to light. [11]
Modern theologians with a strong biblical orientation agree that abortion is the killing of a child. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who lost his life standing up against the murder of the innocent in Germany, argued that abortion is "nothing but murder." [12] Karl Barth stated,
"The unborn child is from the very first a child... it is a man and not a thing, not a mere part of the mother's body... Those who live by mercy will always be disposed to practice mercy, especially to a human being which is so dependent on the mercy of others as the unborn child." [13]
In the last few decades it has become popular for certain theologians and ministers to be proabortion. The Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights, for instance, has adopted the motto, "Prayerfully Prochoice," and prochoice advocates point to it as proof that conscientious Christians can be prochoice. Yet the arguments set forth by such advocates are shallow, inconsistent, and violate the most basic principles of biblical interpretation. Their arguments are clearly read into the biblical texts rather than derived from them. [14]
The "Christians" prochoice position is nothing more than an accommodation to modern secular beliefs, and it flies in the face of the Bible and the historical position of the church. If the church is to be the church, it must challenge and guide the morality of society, not mirror it.
Jesus with children.Conclusion: The Bible and the Children
Even if church history were unclear on the matter, the Bible is very clear. Every child in the womb has been created by God, and He has laid out a plan for that child's life. Furthermore, Christ loves that child and proved it by becoming like him - He spent nine months in His mother's womb. Finally, Christ died for that child, showing how precious He considers him to be.
Christ's disciples failed to understand how valuable children were to Him, and they rebuked those who tried to bring them near Him (Luke 18:15-17). But Jesus called the children to Him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." He did not consider attention to children a distraction from His kingdom business, but an integral part of it.
The biblical view of children is that they are a blessing and a gift from the Lord (Psalm 127:3-5). Society is treating children more and more as liabilities. We must learn to see them as God does - "He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing" (Deuteronomy 10:18). Furthermore, we must act toward them as God commands us to act:
Biblical woman with her baby. Defend the cause of the weak and the fatherless;
Maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them from the hand of the wicked (Psalm 82:3-4).
As we intervene on behalf of His littlest children, let's realize it is Christ Himself from whom we intervene (Matthew 25:40).
Prolife Answers to Prochoice ArgumentsRecommended for further reading
Randy Alcorn, Prolife Answers to Prochoice Arguments (Sisters, Oregon: Multnomah Press, 2000), 455 pp. (available on-line at Eternal Perspective Ministries or your local bookstore).
Also see: What does the Bible teach about abortion? Pro-life or pro-choice?
References
1.
Virginia Ramey Mollenkott, "Reproductive Choice: Basic to Justice for Women," Christian Scholar's Review (March 1988), p. 291. [up]
2.
James Hoffmeier, Abortion: A Christian Understanding (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1987), pp. 46,50; Eugene Quay, "Abortion: Medical and Legal Foundations," Georgetown Law Review (1967), pp. 395,420; Meridith G. Kline, "Lex Talionis and the Human Fetus," Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society (September 1977), pp. 200-201. [up]
3.
Lawrence O. Richards, Expository Dictionary of Bible Words (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1985), pp. 156-157. [up]
4.
James Hoffmeier, editor, Abortion: A Christian Understanding and Response (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1987), p. 62. [up]
5.
John Jefferson Davis, Abortion and the Christian (Phillipsburg, New Jersey: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1984), p. 52. [up]
6.
Meridith G. Kline, "Lex Talionis and the Human Fetus," Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society (September 1977), pp. 193. [up]
7.
A Prochoice Bible Study (Seattle, Washington: Episcopalians for Religious Freedom, 1989). [up]
8.
James Hoffmeier, Abortion: A Christian Understanding (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1987), pp. 53. [up]
9.
See George Grant, Grand Illusions: The Legacy of Planned Parenthood (Brentwood, Tennessee: Wolgelmuth and Hyatt, 1988), pp. 190-191. [up]
10.
Michael Gorman, Abortion and the Early Church (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1982), p. 9. [up]
11.
John Calvin, Commentary on Pentateuch, cited in Crisis Pregnancy Center Volunteer Training Manual (Washington, D.C., Christian Action Council, 1984), p. 7. [up]
12.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Ethics (New York: Macmillan, 1955), p. 131. [up]
13.
Karl Barth, Church Dogmatics, Vol. 3, editor, Geoffrey Bromiley (Edinburgh: T&T Clark, 1961), pp. 415, 418. [up]
14.
An excellent refutation of the various "Christian" prochoice arguments is made by philosophy professor Francis Beckwith in "A Critical Appraisal of Theological Arguments for Abortion Rights," Bibliotheca Sacra (July/September 1991), pp. 337-355; also see: Web site: Life Before Birth - ChristianAnswers.Net/life. [up]
Author: Randy Alcorn, Eternal Perspective Ministries. Used by permission of the author. Excerpted from Mr. Alcorn's excellent book: Prolife Answers to Prochoice Arguments.
This page is located at: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-abortioninthebible.html

Text copyright © 2000, 2002, Eternal Perspective Ministries. Illustrations property of Eden Communications. All Rights Reserved - except as noted on attached "Usage and Copyright" page that grants ChristianAnswers.Net users generous rights for putting this page to work in their homes, personal witnessing, churches and schools.

reply from: saucie

That makes a great read, Nancy.
There are none so lost as those who call themselves "Christian", as if they served the Saviour and still think He sanctions abortion.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAfANSHq-r0
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/whoson.cfm
Pro Life Guy

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5LgBhCw8Hk&feature=player_embedded

reply from: nancyu

http://www.prolifecorner.com/

reply from: nancyu

http://themadjewess.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/why-god-why-if-abortion-is-not-murder-wtf-is-it-then/

reply from: nancyu

http://www.issues4life.org/

reply from: nancyu

http://www.all.org/index.php

reply from: nancyu

http://vimeo.com/1160914

reply from: nancyu

http://unbornwordoftheday.com/2010/01/02/pray-always-without-becoming-weary-luke-181/#comments

reply from: nancyu

MUST WATCH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ByT6RZglA&feature=player_embedded#
(Note comments at 3:50)

reply from: nancyu

Abortion and Slavery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcPnDT2rcHA&feature=related

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHd78I2ZhG0&feature=related

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prE5KtJicJk&feature=related

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjQD7CcMIjI

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbrqySLvZbY

reply from: nancyu

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

reply from: nancyu

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/160551/publisher_ID/36/

reply from: Banned Member

If abortion is illegal after Roe V Wade, what was abortion before Roe v Wade? More illegal?

reply from: nancyu

huuuh? "more illegal"?? What is that? Like " a little bit pregnant" either you is or you ain't -- and abortion ain't legal. Never has been, never will be.
Please hold your breath while waiting for me to explain further, because I'm not wasting my breath (sts) explaining s hit to s hit that doesn't bother to read.

reply from: nancyu

From Dave Leach:

reply from: nancyu

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

reply from: nancyu

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

reply from: SkipperEd

I for protecting all the babies and not just the unborn persons and grown up people to and animals if they not mean.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZPwwdLkhyM

reply from: littlebirdie

Does anyone else have 4-5 blank pages at the end of this topic? Or is there a problem with my computer?

reply from: Ana

No, it happens when threads get insanely long like this.

reply from: Banned Member

It also happens when someone gets booted from the site for using foul language, making threats or asking for personal information. This is what happened here. I won't say who but it was a foulmouthed leftist.

reply from: Spinwubby

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I think it was me under a different screen name.
I'm a lefty, but I'm seldom foul. (My mom used to smack us for that...)

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbrqySLvZbY

reply from: nancyu

http://www.nativelife.us/warsong_for_the_child_alive.mp3

reply from: nancyu

http://probikersforlife.com/
http://www.guysforlife.org/

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XKs6INka4Y&feature=player_embedded

reply from: Akhathistos

I pray for the day when the use of terms "zygote", "tadpole", "worm", "mass of undifferentiated cells", "embryo", "fetus", "vegetable" to diss anyone's humanity and deny his/her basic human rights is just as widely recognized as vicious bigotry as calling some of my ancestors on my paternal grandmother's side by the "n-word" is now.

reply from: nancyu

Stopping by to bump some good ole threads..

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_UMw-Rqjik

reply from: nancyu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK9_NqQGrmw&feature=player_embedded

reply from: nancyu

Easy steps for changing a mere "pro life" document into a PRO PERSON or pro person-hood document
1) Using your mouse direct the pointer to the beginning of this word: PERSON
2) Click left mouse button while dragging the pointer across the word PERSON to highlight the word PERSON.
3) Let go of left mouse button and click right mouse button to reveal drop down menu and click on the word "COPY" using left mouse button.
4) Go to document and find all places where the words "human being" or "a life" or "life" or "human" are used to describe the womb child.
5.) Direct mouse to the first word or group of words. Highlight the word using mouse as shown in step 1.
6) Let go of the left mouse button and click the right mouse button to reveal the drop down menu again, but this time (very important -- do not click "copy" or "cut") you must click the word "PASTE".
7.) Repeat as necessary.
8.) Read your pro person document.
9.) Read section 1 of the 14th amendment to the Constitution of The United States of America
10.) Now you should be able to perceive the importance of using the word PERSON to describe children in the womb. If you still cannot, repeat steps 8 and 9 alternately until you suddenly find yourself smacking your forehead and shouting "NOW I get it!!"
-0-

reply from: nancyu

http://https://www.facebook.com/notes/susie-payson-hennessey/highly-offensive-picture-banned-from-independance-day-parade/228743863815445

reply from: terry

FYI - The reason threads like this end up with several "blank" pages at the end is because of deleted messages. For some reason (and we are working on this and other stuff) the space that was previously taken up by the deleted posts actually continues to show up at the end of threads. There are two ways a post gets deleted. I can delete individual posts, or if I delete a user account, all posts made by that user (AND all threads started by that user, including all posts made by OTHER users) get deleted. So I very rarely delete a user, it would only be for spammers or posters who start breaking rules on purpose despite many warnings. Anyway, I just wanted to clear up the mystery that was being discussed in this thread, of why there are so many empty pages at the end.
I suppose it should go without saying that you can help keep the number of empty pages to a minimum by making sure not to post things that will get your posts--or your user account--deleted!
Thanks,
Terry (moderator)


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