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Babies are BEAUTIFUL!

can't imagine life...

by: sweet

my youngest son is 8 months old. i'm holding him in my arms right now as i type (nursing him). he's so content in my arms...i fell like i'm his everything...he's walking already and many times as i walk by him, he reaches out and leaps for my leg to grab hold of...i feel like a CELEBRITY sometimes...he usually doesn't like to be arms length away from me no matter what...he likes to play close by...sleep close by...laugh close by...cry in my arms...at bedtime, he sleeps on my stomach...if i break his rules and put him beside me instead, he immediately gets up - half sleep or fully asleep - and searches for his usual spot. my rule is supposedly that spot is for feeding time only (when it's 'bedtime') but i can hardly resist the cuddly/kissy/drooly/giggly/touchy/huggyNESS that takes place when he's near. i often smell his feet (yes they're already sweaty) and i love the smell of them! i kiss them and caress them. i put my nose almost completely inside his two-toothed mouth and enjoy the enchanting aroma of BABY BREATH...AAAH...if only it could last forever...in the middle of the night i sometimes awake to myself anxiously awaiting his feeding/waking time so we can cuddle together...laugh together...play together...yet again...2 o'clock am is not too late to "be up with him." nor is it too early. i sometimes lay in bed awake watching him sleep while indulging in his baby scent. i have gotten angry at times about how clingy and needy and demanding he can be, but i try to remind myself that 'babies grow up so fast.' i try to enjoy every moment i'm BLESSED with. i don't know what tomorrow may bring, but today i thank my FATHER IN HEAVEN for the grace he has given me TODAY to be a MOTHER and have my children here in my presence.

reply from: sweet

my oldest son is 4... i wanted him soooo badly and we prayed and fasted and prayed for him! it was nothing but an act of God to bless me with this pregnancy!
it took a year and a half to become pregnant with him(may not sound long) ------it is an eternity when you REALLY want a baby. before i became pregnant i asked many people to pray that we conceive. i began eating for two before hand...i began annointing my stomach (my babies "soon-to-be" residence/home)DAILY! when i found out i was pregnant...words can't describe the feeling! i continued annointing my stomach DAILY - while praying for my child. i continued this routine (even until this day) after birth (with all 3 of my sons). i look at the smiles, the frowns...listen to the fighting, crying, yelling, laughter, noise...look at the scattered toys...the food spilled on shirts/tables...and know deep down...this is supposed to BE after pregnancy. abortion silences laughs, silences cries, robs mothers of the noise, the messes to clean up, the fights to break up...and leaves a silence that shouldn't be. it has to end.

reply from: sweet

my middle child is 2. i bled for 7 whole days at 6 weeks pregnant with him (cramping included). i knew i had miscarried. i went to the ER (day 2 of bleeding)and found out otherwise...yet they still needed to do a 'follow-up' the next day...too afraid of what they might find...i didn't return until 'day 7 of bleeding' (when the blood had stopped)...this time i really knew i had miscarried...again, i found out otherwise........NOTHING BUT GOD!

reply from: KaylieBee

Everyone wants children, isn't that right, sweet? Aren't you the one who has said she can't understand why a ~*~real~*~ woman wouldn't want babies?

reply from: ChristianLott2

oh, i guess we all forgot how much you want *dead* babies.

reply from: KaylieBee

yeah, especially when their skulls squish. That's really cool. To see all that grey matter flood the womb mmmm.
if you think I'm being serious, you should ask the mods to ban you for being so dim.

reply from: ChristianLott2

No, you probably won't. That's the whole point of her story. You lose.
We all lose something, some lose more than others. I think not being able to have children is a huge, devastating loss. One of the greatest next to your own life.

reply from: KaylieBee

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Yeah, I bet the people of http://cf_hardcore.livejournal.com have really horrible lives because they don't want to spawn.
Seriously, something I hope I'm infertile.

reply from: KaylieBee

That's really good for you, Xen.
Besides, if she were infertile, couldn't she just adopt a baby? Or are they not as good as biological children?

reply from: smom

zenatiger- I pray for you in your time of question. I pray, that someone touches your heart just the same. Like i said about the boy in the tree... He wasnt mine in birth, but he had my heart! He needed a stronger someone.. a guardian to look after him. An overseer. I didnt even have to wipe his butt or feed him!(incase you dont enjoy all that lovely stuff. He just needed a advocate to sit with him. A special someone. Such as big brothers and sisters. There is a kid out there that has a loss of a parent, or a parent that has walked away.. who may need a person who has 'time' for them. Pets are dear too. And so is silence, its golden... Ive learned to appreciate it! peace be with you.

reply from: smom

sweet. incredible. thank you for sharing. keep up the spirits in such a very busy family!!!!! I know how discouraging it can be at times and sometimes doubts anchor our thoughts. You have a beautiful spirit and three wonderful children.. and with the love that you ached to give they will be all the more treasured and blessed. Before you know it.. the holidays and moments will slip so quickly. You will wonder where the time has gone. I have to stop and take a moment to get a hard look around and try to capture it best as i can. For the nights melt into the weeks and the weeks melt into the months. I dont worry about the little things anymore. I worry about the big things. The time I have to teach everything they should know to carry them through life...and the chances to enjoy what i have. You should see my daughter. One day she took her sister out into the yard to have a picnic. And while she was out there, she was studying the Bible. Angelic. It was a perfect day. The breeze flowing through their hair. Of course, they were all dressed up and delighted into eachother. But, after she had her Bible out, her sister quickly went into the house to find her small Bible and mimic her. I sat on the swing and savored the moment. You just wait... those moments, those small gifts. When you see them cleaning up the house to surprise you... When you see them create a picture just for you... and they write their own words... When they write stories in school about their family life... Or they tell what's inside their mind.. and the pages come alive!!! Keep looking for those small treasures!!! It moves so fast and is everchanging!!! However small. Its amazing.
I really dont even notice the poopies.. the thing that i notice.. is that its time to spend with baby. It forces you to undress them, cleanse them, dress them,...hold them...kiss n hug them... It somehow gives you small moments of life. Like a rollercoaster that completely keeps you engaged with life! Its like... HERE I AM!!!! funny how life twists and turns...up and down.. inside upside out...and back on the ground again!!!! Have a blessed day!

reply from: xnavy

enjoy these days while the children are small because they grow up so fast , i have 1 in college , 1 high school age and my daughter in
middle school.

reply from: sweet

"He maketh the barren woman to keep house, and to be a joyful mother of children. Praise ye the LORD." (PSALM 119:9)

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

yeah, especially when their skulls squish. That's really cool. To see all that grey matter flood the womb mmmm.
if you think I'm being serious, you should ask the mods to ban you for being so dim.
Weren't you the person who said babies were disgustingly snotty and pukey? Didn't you say it was sad how they turn a mother into a milking cow? Were you being facetious then too? Or was it the unvarnished truth about your disgust towards babies and motherhood? If so, it was an awful blunt assessment of a really bad attitude.

reply from: BossMomma

Me too..Your post about squishing baby heads was disgusting and it makes you out to look like a troll posting purely for shock value. Has it ever occured to you that when you post such crap that you may be offending more than your target or do you just prefer to be an equal opportunity offender?

reply from: 4given

Me too..Your post about squishing baby heads was disgusting and it makes you out to look like a troll posting purely for shock value. Has it ever occured to you that when you post such crap that you may be offending more than your target or do you just prefer to be an equal opportunity offender?
She is mostly trolling. Are you surprised or disappointed that she is trying to portray your views? There have been many posters that display the same level of
moral degradation.. But hey- you have your moments as well. She is young. What is your excuse?
Edited out the charge of "blind and cold"

reply from: BossMomma

Me too..Your post about squishing baby heads was disgusting and it makes you out to look like a troll posting purely for shock value. Has it ever occured to you that when you post such crap that you may be offending more than your target or do you just prefer to be an equal opportunity offender?
She is mostly trolling. Are you surprised or disappointed that she is trying to portray your views? There have been many posters that display the same level of
moral degradation.. But hey- you have your moments as well. She is young. What is your excuse?
Edited out the charge of "blind and cold"
When have I ever posted something purely to disgust others? Show me please because I don't recall ever posting for shock value. I post factual information and when someone attacks me personally I snap back at them, I don't drag family into it, I don't make gruesome posts just to be offensive so please, back up your accusation.

reply from: 4given

You have been offensive- not quite as she is. I don't need to "back up" your anything. You are morally degraded because you support the mutilation of human lives. (in their most protected state) What you stand for is enough- or is it not enough? How can you, as a mother- experiencing every movement- the joys and pain, believe that those little children you were blessed with and your womb that bore them has more value than those created in the womb of another woman?

reply from: lukesmom

Thank you 4given. You said it before I could. BM (yuck, BTW) being for the slaughter of the unborn IS disgusting.

reply from: lukesmom

yeah, especially when their skulls squish. That's really cool. To see all that grey matter flood the womb mmmm.
if you think I'm being serious, you should ask the mods to ban you for being so dim.
KaylieBee, I love how you made yourself look like an idiot without even trying. You do make the proaborts proud I bet. Keep posting this stuff and you might make poster child of the month for PP.

reply from: BossMomma

I believe that value is bestowed upon the unborn by she who carries them. I do not take it upon myself to insist that every woman think as I do.

reply from: lukesmom

I believe that value is bestowed upon the unborn by she who carries them. I do not take it upon myself to insist that every woman think as I do.
You could use that same statement for child/spousal abuse too. But that doesn't change the fact that both are wrong and hurt or destroy other living beings same as abortion.

reply from: BossMomma

I believe that value is bestowed upon the unborn by she who carries them. I do not take it upon myself to insist that every woman think as I do.
You could use that same statement for child/spousal abuse too. But that doesn't change the fact that both are wrong and hurt or destroy other living beings same as abortion.
As a victim of spousal abuse and child abuse I tend to disagree. It's hard to abuse one that does not exist, an aborted fetus or embryo for example.

reply from: lukesmom

I believe that value is bestowed upon the unborn by she who carries them. I do not take it upon myself to insist that every woman think as I do.
You could use that same statement for child/spousal abuse too. But that doesn't change the fact that both are wrong and hurt or destroy other living beings same as abortion.
As a victim of spousal abuse and child abuse I tend to disagree. It's hard to abuse one that does not exist, an aborted fetus or embryo for example.
Actually a fetus' or embryoes do exist. No one can kill something that doesn't exist, can they? Killing, ie: abortion is the ultimate abuse.

reply from: Banned Member

When I contemplate abortion, I see a complete life unlived. There is no childhood, no being held by loving and caring people. no growing up, no making of friends, falling in love, getting married, having problems, paying bills, enjoying sunsets, naps, good food, getting older, feeling nostalgic, thinking everything they had was better when they were young and taking the pride in seeing their children go through all the same experiences. An entire life experiences is snuffed out, erased violently from our midst, for a choice and a few hundred dollars paid to some hack. Generations are murdered, by a single choice. Dear God... abortion is evil.

reply from: BossMomma

I believe that value is bestowed upon the unborn by she who carries them. I do not take it upon myself to insist that every woman think as I do.
You could use that same statement for child/spousal abuse too. But that doesn't change the fact that both are wrong and hurt or destroy other living beings same as abortion.
As a victim of spousal abuse and child abuse I tend to disagree. It's hard to abuse one that does not exist, an aborted fetus or embryo for example.
Actually a fetus' or embryoes do exist. No one can kill something that doesn't exist, can they? Killing, ie: abortion is the ultimate abuse.
Once aborted, the fetus no longer exists, how can it be abused? Child abuse is illegal, odd that abortion is not. Could it be that there is no similarity between the two? Something like the "abortion is murder" idiocy that is frequently screamed on this forum? Honestly, try posting something factual and, as I told yoda, don't falsely acuse me unless you can back your accusation up. It compromises your integrity.

reply from: BossMomma

So your entire view on abortion is based upon your sentimentality and your opinion of what is moral? Many born children, thousands of born children don't get to experience any of the niceties or nuances of life, they know only want and suffering. Is it enough then for you that they were born to know how to suffer? Or should quality of life be taken into account?

reply from: Banned Member

Augustine is a just man, indignant that people murder their own children. I had no perfect childhood; born with an absent father, siblings I never knew, picked on when young. I would have every child be able to become what their faith and reason could fulfill. Only those who play god, presume to know who is better to live and who is better to die. By the abortionists own standards, I would have been better to have been aborted. Are they not lucky that I live... to torment their murderous consciences?

reply from: BossMomma

With his mind set it's probably for the best. There's no logic in him, no common sense just a hodgepodge of emotional and religious rhetoric that could never win against reason.

reply from: BossMomma

I doubt even one abortion provider is losing sleep because you don't like what he does. The world will keep spinning, life will go on and you'll still be there banging your fists on the key board crying injustice to various screen names that couldn't give two and a half shytes what your morals or religion say.

reply from: yoda

Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
John Donne
Meditation XVII

reply from: yoda

Yes, abortion is a "fatal abuse".

reply from: yoda

Everything is opinion, you have said exactly nothing.

reply from: yoda

With his mind set it's probably for the best. There's no logic in him, no common sense just a hodgepodge of emotional and religious rhetoric that could never win against reason.
When the message offends you, attack the messenger.
You may not change any minds, but at least you'll change the subject.

reply from: yoda

Some life will go on....... some life will be ended by abortion.

reply from: KaylieBee

Me too..Your post about squishing baby heads was disgusting and it makes you out to look like a troll posting purely for shock value. Has it ever occured to you that when you post such crap that you may be offending more than your target or do you just prefer to be an equal opportunity offender?
Use your brain, woman. CL2 has been trying his hardest to troll me, mostly by making attacks at my relationship.
Sarcastically given him what he actually thinks I, and any of us believes, and having him (and people like you) offended by it only proves how Easy you are.
If I were trolling, you all have failed.

reply from: KaylieBee

Me too..Your post about squishing baby heads was disgusting and it makes you out to look like a troll posting purely for shock value. Has it ever occured to you that when you post such crap that you may be offending more than your target or do you just prefer to be an equal opportunity offender?
She is mostly trolling. Are you surprised or disappointed that she is trying to portray your views? There have been many posters that display the same level of
moral degradation.. But hey- you have your moments as well. She is young. What is your excuse?
Edited out the charge of "blind and cold"
I am not trolling, if you want to see me troll, go to Gaia. Otherwise, stop making accusations.

reply from: KaylieBee

Some life will go on....... some life will be ended by abortion.
And starvation, and disease, and suicide, and horrible accidents, and how many other things?

reply from: sweet

that is awful that you experienced abuse...my mother was a victim of the same...before and after i was born (unfortunately)...she still CHOSE to let me be born...good thing you made it out of that situation...my mother was finally killed by my stepdad...i finally forgave him (long story). also, i'm sorry that you have these views about babies...theyDO exist...just like you existed at conception and now! they are beautiful GIFTS to women...just as you were as a baby!

reply from: yoda

And starvation, and disease, and suicide, and horrible accidents, and how many other things?
Lots of things cause death, but not all of them are intentionally inflicted.
Abortion is intentionally inflicted on an innocent human being.

reply from: KaylieBee

Does that make the persons death any worse? I should think anyone suffering and dying would be considered a bad thing.

reply from: yoda

It makes the actions of the one doing the killing much, much worse than an accidental or natural death.
Don't you agree?

reply from: KaylieBee

I don't think any honest suffering should be categorized as worse than any other.

reply from: yoda

Hey, read my lips....... I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SUFFERING....
I'm talking about the evil actions of the KILLER......... capiche?

reply from: BossMomma

that is awful that you experienced abuse...my mother was a victim of the same...before and after i was born (unfortunately)...she still CHOSE to let me be born...good thing you made it out of that situation...my mother was finally killed by my stepdad...i finally forgave him (long story). also, i'm sorry that you have these views about babies...theyDO exist...just like you existed at conception and now! they are beautiful GIFTS to women...just as you were as a baby!
My children are gifts to me, I consider them as such. The next woman might consider the baby a burden or a punishment. I'm aware that babies exist but don't consider abortion to be child abuse, murder or, anything other than a reproductive choice. There is no malice in abortion, the woman is not out to harm the baby out of a desire to cause it pain, she simply doesn't wish to remain pregnant.

reply from: BossMomma

Some life will go on....... some life will be ended by abortion.
And some will be ended just as early on by miscarriage, what's your point?

reply from: KaylieBee

The intent, apparently.

reply from: Jameberlin

that is awful that you experienced abuse...my mother was a victim of the same...before and after i was born (unfortunately)...she still CHOSE to let me be born...good thing you made it out of that situation...my mother was finally killed by my stepdad...i finally forgave him (long story). also, i'm sorry that you have these views about babies...theyDO exist...just like you existed at conception and now! they are beautiful GIFTS to women...just as you were as a baby!
My children are gifts to me, I consider them as such. The next woman might consider the baby a burden or a punishment. I'm aware that babies exist but don't consider abortion to be child abuse, murder or, anything other than a reproductive choice. There is no malice in abortion, the woman is not out to harm the baby out of a desire to cause it pain, she simply doesn't wish to remain pregnant.
That's not entirely true, i have known women who have had abortions to spite other people. My sister knew full well she was killing her child (by her own admission) and even regrets every abortion she's had. Technically abortion is homicide, since it's the willful killing of another human being. Whether or not it's murder... the government has made that decision for us.

reply from: yoda

<sigh>....... Once again, with passion.......
An accidental miscarriage is an accident. An abortion is a killing done on purpose.

reply from: yoda

Killing ANY innocent human being intentionally involves an intent to cause the ultimate harm to that individual.
Just because the human hasn't been born yet doesn't make it any less "harm" to kill someone.

reply from: BossMomma

that is awful that you experienced abuse...my mother was a victim of the same...before and after i was born (unfortunately)...she still CHOSE to let me be born...good thing you made it out of that situation...my mother was finally killed by my stepdad...i finally forgave him (long story). also, i'm sorry that you have these views about babies...theyDO exist...just like you existed at conception and now! they are beautiful GIFTS to women...just as you were as a baby!
My children are gifts to me, I consider them as such. The next woman might consider the baby a burden or a punishment. I'm aware that babies exist but don't consider abortion to be child abuse, murder or, anything other than a reproductive choice. There is no malice in abortion, the woman is not out to harm the baby out of a desire to cause it pain, she simply doesn't wish to remain pregnant.
That's not entirely true, i have known women who have had abortions to spite other people. My sister knew full well she was killing her child (by her own admission) and even regrets every abortion she's had. Technically abortion is homicide, since it's the willful killing of another human being. Whether or not it's murder... the government has made that decision for us.
Right, and according to PETA the steak my family enjoyed last night is homocide too. In your way of thinking, capital punishment is homocide, taking an inrecoverable vegetable off life support is homocide too right?

reply from: BossMomma

Killing ANY innocent human being intentionally involves an intent to cause the ultimate harm to that individual.
Just because the human hasn't been born yet doesn't make it any less "harm" to kill someone.
Better go tell that to hospitals, every time they take a vegetable off life support they are abusing that individual and causing them the ultimate harm.

reply from: yoda

Babies are not "VEGETABLES".

reply from: Jameberlin

Babies are not "VEGETABLES".
no person has the capability of ever becoming a vegetable, they're simply in a "vegetative state" and not all people on life support are in such a state, likewise some "vegetables" might be breathing on their own but need help with feeding/drinking. Babies don't even fall into this category because they have the potential to form into a perfectly functioning human adult. "Vegetables" have no such potential.

reply from: BossMomma

Babies are not "VEGETABLES".
A person in a chronic vegetative state is still a human being, yet they are allowed to die in hospitals world wide. I don't see you crying foul.

reply from: yoda

This is a forum dedicated to the prolife cause. My interest is in stopping elective abortion, I'm not inclined to divert this discussion into a discussion on euthanasia.
If you're unwilling to discuss abortion, just say so.

reply from: BossMomma

Duck, duck, duck, goose!

reply from: yoda

Hey, I've been here discussing ABORTION on an ABORTION DEDICATED FORUM for the last 16,225 posts....... and you're accusing me of "ducking"?
You're on the wrong forum if you think you can change the subject and then force me to go with you...
You're not my "boss".

reply from: BossMomma

My six year old acts just like you when he gets mad. " Your not the boss a'me!" Then he proceeds to stomp his feet, fold his arms over his chest and scowl. Are you doing the same thing?

reply from: KaylieBee

ooh, I see what you did there.

reply from: lukesmom

Did I miss something? I don't remember accusing you of anything and am wondering if I am losing my mind or if you are delusional. I wonder why you are so defensive??? That was not ment as a slam or anything except your accusation of me accusing you of something is quite confusing.
Of course you are right, once a living being has been killed it no longer exists as a living being. BUT before "its" death it IS a living being and I think most would agree being forced into an untimely death is a form of abuse. FACT: an embryo, a fetus are living human beings. FACT: Abortion distroys these living human beings. FACT: destroying a human being without it's consent is murder. Where is the opinion or accusation (although I have no idea how this would be an accusation)?

reply from: Cecilia

Hmmm...this gives me something to consider.

reply from: smom

You know.. if they didnt WANT the pregnancy that they now find theirselves in... They HAD options. they just didnt USE them. NOW, is the consequences of them not USING THEIR PREVIOUS OPTIONS... I dont think an innocent baby should be murdered for their foolish parents OPTIONS. We have baskets. We have adoptions. Why is the mother so protected when THEY act the fool? What are we afraid of when we protect the life of the unborn? We are the 'richest' nation in the WORLD. Can we not afford to take care of our own?...in whatever capacity they come?
I appreciate the home health care that visits your home after the birth of a baby.. i think they need to step it up a notch and be an advocate to the child to help parents adjust to the new role and create a healtHy environment... To help heal the abuse that is already present. We need to find ways to protect our lil ones. And not be persecuting new parents.. but help them find solutions.
We need to build up our advocacy for new future moms to help them find OTHER answers that might end these abortion OPTIONS. Help them network and get the help they need to build up a new life. We need to fill the void that causes these young ladies to give up or..get into troubles in the first place. We need to advocate for healthier relationships from the start. We need to advocate for healthier sexual choices other than conforming to the ideal that if we cant beat them, join them.. lets just fill them with condoms and hope for the best. in a world of over 250000babies being slaughtered a year, and outbreaks of sexual deseases that are overtaking our youth.. WHY would we allow it to be okay for a society to be so extraordinarily promiscuous? Why would we allow this campaign to continue? The numbers have not gone down.. they have gone up!!!! With no sign of a drop. Sexual 'freedom' destroys lives. It destroy families. It destroys healthy relationships and promotes brokeness. Why? WHY? would we want to promote this behavior with what is being taught anymore... Its all about 'MY' happiness... no matter what babies died.. what children were raised in other spouses half step families...no matter how many spouses and boyfriend/girlfriends we trample through.. Its a shame we cannot collectively have healthier relationships with a fight to the 'finish'. Its NOT all about sex.. its NOT all about love.. its about a lifemate that you are willing to turn the ends of the earth and back to create a long lasting relationship with.. and bear their children.. and do whatever it takes to protect what you have started. period. why do we not press that to protect our people from the 'drama' that drapes our court system and diminishes our tax dollars.. with...unfinished business being created everyday by the millions... why are we not building up our advocacies like crazy to combat it. its a problem.. and our media is NO help. No accountability or responsibility for whatever theyve enticed in the public whatsoever. I see young men and women.. literally wake up from their stupor..and wonder what the hell happened. Its so sad. Oh they wake up.. they wake up when they are having two visitations a month with their child and paying out money for some other father to raise THEIR child... oh.. they wake up. Its so sad that we have let this happen.. we have let it happen when the devalue of our women was glamourized.. and the devalue of our men and what their main concerns should be... were washed out the back door. How painful it must be... to be in a torn relationship with your child. to give them up to others to raise and to not always get to enjoy being at their every beck and call. Over stupid nights.. of partying and drinking and finding to wake up to their stupor and find the consequences of their drugged actions. And to face those consequences for the rest of their lives.. its sad. but its livable. NOW. we need to establish that our youth need to know the truthes of what these actions bring on.. to counter the assault that the media has brutally entertwined in their lives. DAILY..HOURLY...DAILY...HOURLY... Lets break the chain and build lives.. build healthy families to protectively nest our unborn babies of the future.. Lets strengthen the mortar of these nests. knowledge is everything. Even if we dont save every baby... At least we could turn the numbers around and give them something to celebrate.. a place to be raised.. a safe strong rock that they deserve. Im not saying that all two-parent homes will be a perfect family.. But.. we need to strengthen our future parents.. so they can TOGETHER raise their kids (It takes two to tango...) In one home. Unite them. Our future children deserve to know the love of a father and mother together... working together to bring up their families...together. "We need to raise our boys to know WHY a father is just as important.. And what both can do to enhance our future children's lives. I can remember many a boy who didnt have a dad practically 'cling' to my hub.. to even know what it is to have a father.. it almost brought tears to my eyes to see their eyes of wonder when they would be talking. Just the little things.. everyday things that come up.. and to see those eyes just search... To hear them be jealous of my son because they WISHED they had a dad. It just makes me sad that our media/mtv/etc.. continues to abuse our society with their...'ideals' and pummel our teens with it.. the most impressionable age. the beginnings of our future mothers and fathers... advocates!! for the unborn.. it starts here. it starts on our children when we are raising them...we need to invest in them. they are our treasures. thank you sweet for sharing your love of your children and the special bonds that grew with them... the wanting for that child and the treasure that you found when you finally reached them... we need to bring the reality.. the bond.. the hope of a child.. the hope of a parent.. bring out the joys that we share with our babies... to drown out the poison that abortion is acceptable. we need to share... what it is to BE a parent. to BE a mother/father.. to allow them small glimpses of reality... to give them an idea of what they are..entering into when they play with fire with no...thoughts... we need to ENGAGE our youth. engage their thoughts.. and not allow them to walk into a stupor of hormones. They are viable humans.. i KNOW we can get through to them SOMEHOW...

reply from: yoda

I see you are trying to change the subject again..... okay, yeah, I'm just like a six year old.
Now, how does that make it moral to electively kill an innocent unborn baby?

reply from: nancyu

Killing ANY innocent human being intentionally involves an intent to cause the ultimate harm to that individual.
Just because the human hasn't been born yet doesn't make it any less "harm" to kill someone.
Better go tell that to hospitals, every time they take a vegetable off life support they are abusing that individual and causing them the ultimate harm.
If that "vegetable" you are referring to happens to be a human being, then yes, they are causing the ultimate harm.
My niece fell into a swimming pool when she was not quite 3 years old. She was on life support for a while. I'm sure there were some who thought the plug should have been pulled on her then. She went on to live a full and happy life until she died from Cancer at the age of 35. So yes pulling the plug on her would have caused her the ultimate harm.

reply from: BossMomma

I see you are trying to change the subject again..... okay, yeah, I'm just like a six year old.
Now, how does that make it moral to electively kill an innocent unborn baby?
The same way it's moral to deprive your child of a social life by homeschooling instead of public school, morality has nothing to do with it. Morals differ from person to person and one can no more say I am morally right than they can prove it for fact. Morals are opinions and, as we already went through, everyone has their own.

reply from: BossMomma

Killing ANY innocent human being intentionally involves an intent to cause the ultimate harm to that individual.
Just because the human hasn't been born yet doesn't make it any less "harm" to kill someone.
Better go tell that to hospitals, every time they take a vegetable off life support they are abusing that individual and causing them the ultimate harm.
If that "vegetable" you are referring to happens to be a human being, then yes, they are causing the ultimate harm.
My niece fell into a swimming pool when she was not quite 3 years old. She was on life support for a while. I'm sure there were some who thought the plug should have been pulled on her then. She went on to live a full and happy life until she died from Cancer at the age of 35. So yes pulling the plug on her would have caused her the ultimate harm.
So you believe families should have to keep a loved one on life support even though it has been proven that they will not recover? Makes me glad for my DNR.

reply from: lukesmom

Did I miss something? I don't remember accusing you of anything and am wondering if I am losing my mind or if you are delusional. I wonder why you are so defensive??? That was not ment as a slam or anything except your accusation of me accusing you of something is quite confusing.
Of course you are right, once a living being has been killed it no longer exists as a living being. BUT before "its" death it IS a living being and I think most would agree being forced into an untimely death is a form of abuse. FACT: an embryo, a fetus are living human beings. FACT: Abortion distroys these living human beings. FACT: destroying a human being without it's consent is murder. Where is the opinion or accusation (although I have no idea how this would be an accusation)?
HEY BOSSY! Ignoring me won't make me go away...

reply from: sweet

not the HOMESCHOOL topic! well since you brought it up...social life is not only present within the public school system *pokes the bubble*
public school has good and bad qualities...homeschool has good and bad qualities. by the way why not live by good, safe morals?

reply from: lukesmom

Killing ANY innocent human being intentionally involves an intent to cause the ultimate harm to that individual.
Just because the human hasn't been born yet doesn't make it any less "harm" to kill someone.
Better go tell that to hospitals, every time they take a vegetable off life support they are abusing that individual and causing them the ultimate harm.
If that "vegetable" you are referring to happens to be a human being, then yes, they are causing the ultimate harm.
My niece fell into a swimming pool when she was not quite 3 years old. She was on life support for a while. I'm sure there were some who thought the plug should have been pulled on her then. She went on to live a full and happy life until she died from Cancer at the age of 35. So yes pulling the plug on her would have caused her the ultimate harm.
So you believe families should have to keep a loved one on life support even though it has been proven that they will not recover? Makes me glad for my DNR.
And that is the PURPOSE of Advanced Directives, so people can CHOOSE to have a DNR status. Funny, I have yet to "meet" or hear of an aborted child who has designated an Advanced Directive for themselves. So. What does any of this or homeschooling or whatever distraction you think of, have to do with killing unborn children?

reply from: yoda

The same way it's moral to deprive your child of a social life by homeschooling instead of public school, morality has nothing to do with it. Morals differ from person to person and one can no more say I am morally right than they can prove it for fact. Morals are opinions and, as we already went through, everyone has their own.
Let me see if I understand you right here.... you're saying homeschooling a child is just as bad as killing them?
Yes, moral opinion differs from person to person, and that's why I'm asking YOU directly why YOU think it's moral to electively kill an unborn person. But I get the idea that question's too tough for you, is that right?

reply from: yoda

Exactly.
Bossy appears to be saying that the morality of electively killing innocent unborn children is "above her pay grade".

reply from: lukesmom

Exactly.
Bossy appears to be saying that the morality of electively killing innocent unborn children is "above her pay grade".
Well, with her head in the sand and her butt in the air, just about everything is "above her pay grade".

reply from: BossMomma

The same way it's moral to deprive your child of a social life by homeschooling instead of public school, morality has nothing to do with it. Morals differ from person to person and one can no more say I am morally right than they can prove it for fact. Morals are opinions and, as we already went through, everyone has their own.
Let me see if I understand you right here.... you're saying homeschooling a child is just as bad as killing them?
Yes, moral opinion differs from person to person, and that's why I'm asking YOU directly why YOU think it's moral to electively kill an unborn person. But I get the idea that question's too tough for you, is that right?
No yoda, I'm challenging the issue of morality. It's difficult to argue the subject of abortion from a moral stand point because morals are so diverse. In India it is perfectly moral to bury a newborn girl alive because a girl is considered a financial burden. In America it is considered cowardly for a boy to hit a girl but in the Middle East it is acceptable for men to beat their wives. You can argue morals all day and not get anywhere. I argue abortion from a legal standpoint because at least I can make a point, abortion is a legal choice that women can make, therefore it is not wrong.

reply from: lukesmom

Anyone else notice how Bossy can only post her opinions, no facts. Then she has the audacity to "spank" anyone else who posts, what she deems an opinion. Typical proabort diversion tactics... Who else can say "BORING"?

reply from: BossMomma

Exactly.
Bossy appears to be saying that the morality of electively killing innocent unborn children is "above her pay grade".
Well, with her head in the sand and her butt in the air, just about everything is "above her pay grade".
Can you form your own argument or do you content yourself with being a minion standing behind others?

reply from: BossMomma

Isn't lying against your religion? I challenge opinions I don't agree with which is the purpose of debate, I don't spank anyone I simply choose my own battles, I don't piggy back on everyone elses like you do. When I state a proven fact such as " Abortion is not murder, it's a legal right" it can't be challenged, pro-fetals have tried forever to challenge it and failed so run along.

reply from: lukesmom

Where? Where are they? Can't see anyone else... Just you and me babe. Stop hiding behind your accusations and act like an adult, little girl.
Head in the sand, butt in the air, you are in no position to mess with me.

reply from: BossMomma

A 27 year old is a little girl? Interesting. I post facts regularly, it's not my fault you wouldn't know a fact if one reared it's head and bit you in the back end. BTW, Your temper is showing your huberis.

reply from: BossMomma

Exactly.
Bossy appears to be saying that the morality of electively killing innocent unborn children is "above her pay grade".
It's above your "pay grade" too, morals cannot be proven for fact.

reply from: yoda

Nah, not really. The truth is that you can't "prove" anything if I don't accept your sources.... nothing at all.
Besides, no one was asking you to prove anything about morality, just tell us how you morally justify elective abortion in your own mind.... but you're apparently too cowardly to do that.
Well, actually I can understand that..... it takes a lot of balls to say that you favor the elective killing of innocent babies..... as one proabort poster did on this forum today.

reply from: BossMomma

Maybe the fact that she can't seem to form her own argument and so resorts to being yoda's cheerleader. I pity her really.

reply from: BossMomma

Nah, not really. The truth is that you can't "prove" anything if I don't accept your sources.... nothing at all.
Besides, no one was asking you to prove anything about morality, just tell us how you morally justify elective abortion in your own mind.... but you're apparently too cowardly to do that.
Well, actually I can understand that..... it takes a lot of balls to say that you favor the elective killing of innocent babies..... as one proabort poster did on this forum today.
I don't have to morally justify anything when I don't view abortion from a moral standpoint to begin with, I view it from a legal standpoint. You are simply stuck on your emotionally driven rant and trying to thrust your morals on women.

reply from: lukesmom

Maybe the fact that she can't seem to form her own argument and so resorts to being yoda's cheerleader. I pity her really.
Ok, now you are not only delusional but crazy. I have not been "yoda's cheerleader" and have been addressing you from page 2. You have not answered any of my questions or facts I have posted because, I guess, you can't. Instead you have been assuming and accusing. I really fear for your sanity and really do have some MD's I send pts to for mental status evals. I wish you would consider this option as it may benefit you. Lots of 20 somethings are immature little girls and need to grow up, not just you so don't be offended.

reply from: lukesmom

Read the thread and you will see the dodging bossy likes to do. I didn't know this pertained to you anyway. Are you bossy's "cheerleader"? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

reply from: yoda

Of course not, you poor little thing!! No one can make you say why you think it's a good thing when people kill their babies, you don't have to!
Everything we do has a moral aspect, especially the killing of another human being. So if you don't view it from a moral standpoint, that means you think that killing other innocent human beings is perfectly okay.
Obviously, you think there's nothing wrong with killing in general. And that's just plain sad.

reply from: BossMomma

Of course not, you poor little thing!! No one can make you say why you think it's a good thing when people kill their babies, you don't have to!
Everything we do has a moral aspect, especially the killing of another human being. So if you don't view it from a moral standpoint, that means you think that killing other innocent human beings is perfectly okay.
Obviously, you think there's nothing wrong with killing in general. And that's just plain sad.
So there is no good in the law? I abide the law, I agree with the law, it is the one thing everyone has to obey or face the consequences. If you prevent a woman from entering a women's clinic to seek abortion you will be arrested, not her. Care to dance around a bit more or has my point of view been made clear at last?

reply from: yoda

Whether or not there is "good" in the law is a MORAL question, don't you understand? You can't constantly avoid discussion of morality and then ask a MORAL question as if good and bad had nothing to do with morality.
So, you agree with the law? Then had you lived in the antebellum south, you would've been a supporter of slavery, right? Or had you lived in Nazi Germany, you'd have supported the Nazis, right? Or even in the southern US in the 50's, you would've supported segregation, right? Just how devoted to "the law" are you?
I never doubted that you had made yourself clear.... you support abortion. You support the elective killing of unborn babies.

reply from: lukesmom

Whether or not there is "good" in the law is a MORAL question, don't you understand? You can't constantly avoid discussion of morality and then ask a MORAL question as if good and bad had nothing to do with morality.
So, you agree with the law? Then had you lived in the antebellum south, you would've been a supporter of slavery, right? Or had you lived in Nazi Germany, you'd have supported the Nazis, right? Or even in the southern US in the 50's, you would've supported segregation, right? Just how devoted to "the law" are you?
I never doubted that you had made yourself clear.... you support abortion. You support the elective killing of unborn babies.
Yoda, I heard a great statement tonight. "Don't conform to this age." It is easy for the Bossys and others like her to conform to "the law" regarding abortion rights. In the end, those of us who refuse to conform to unjust laws are the ones who will be able to hold our heads high when the killing has ended. I love how history now portrays "humans" who ignored and therefore condoned the suffering of others during slavery, nazi Germany, Albania and hundreds of other instances in history. I really HATE people who shrug their shoulders and refuse to do anything to help another or who lie to themselves and deny the atrocities. History is not kind to these people, nor should they have the kindness they denied another. I refuse to conform to this age and am proud of it.

reply from: yoda

Exactly. It's much easier to just "go along with the crowd and be popular" than to stand up for what's right, but unpopular. In a way, though, that's a good thing, because it thins out the crowd and lets us see who the really good people are.

reply from: BossMomma

Exactly. It's much easier to just "go along with the crowd and be popular" than to stand up for what's right, but unpopular. In a way, though, that's a good thing, because it thins out the crowd and lets us see who the really good people are.
Yes, intolerance, racism, sexism and, ignorance is rather godly according to the bible so hey, go with what'cha know.

reply from: lukesmom

Exactly. It's much easier to just "go along with the crowd and be popular" than to stand up for what's right, but unpopular. In a way, though, that's a good thing, because it thins out the crowd and lets us see who the really good people are.
Yes, intolerance, racism, sexism and, ignorance is rather godly according to the bible so hey, go with what'cha know.
Actually, you are the only one here mentioning God and the bible. Kinda ironic isn't it? Here we go again with the ASS umptions...

reply from: BossMomma

Exactly. It's much easier to just "go along with the crowd and be popular" than to stand up for what's right, but unpopular. In a way, though, that's a good thing, because it thins out the crowd and lets us see who the really good people are.
Yes, intolerance, racism, sexism and, ignorance is rather godly according to the bible so hey, go with what'cha know.
Actually, you are the only one here mentioning God and the bible. Kinda ironic isn't it? Here we go again with the ASS umptions...
So now you deny Him? It's like the last supper all over again. And you can kiss my Ass-umption up one side and down the other.

reply from: lukesmom

Are you always this stupid or are you making a special effort today?

reply from: BossMomma

Shoo before I get my rolled up news paper on ya.

reply from: lukesmom

Actually reading it will get you further.

reply from: BossMomma

Why don't you try it then?
It's hard for her to actually read, she just barks and hides like an excitable chihuahua. She is a coward with no real thought or opinion of her own and, with her hypocrisy she is thus far one of the worst pro-life advocates I've encountered.

reply from: lukesmom

Why don't you try it then?
Already have today, thanks though!

reply from: lukesmom

back to the purpose of the board instead of playing with the proaborts.
Did you know:
A study published in April 2003 in the medical journal Fertility and Sterility found that women who have abortions may be left infertile if fragments of their aborted children's bones are left in the uterus. Researchers at Ottawa University used ultrasound to detect bone fragments that would have been missed by tube cameras. The researchers said that women could conceive again once the bone fragments were removed. Bones are present in unborn children by 12 weeks, the gestational age at which many abortions occur.

reply from: BossMomma

LOL cop out, you lose.

reply from: lukesmom

Did you know:
Milestones of Early Life
At no time in your life does more growth and change occur than in the first nine months before birth. Here are the amazing milestones of that time in your life:
Day 1: Conception: Of the 200,000,000 sperm that try to penetrate the mother's egg cell, only one succeeds.2 At that very moment, a new and unique individual is formed. All of the inherited features of this new person are already set - whether it's a boy or girl, the color of the eyes, the color of the hair, the dimples of the cheeks and the cleft of the chin. He or she is smaller than a grain of sugar, but the instructions are present for all that this person will ever become.
The first cell soon divides in two. Each of these new cells divides again and again as they travel toward the womb in search of a protected place to grow.3
Day 6-14:The new individual at first attaches loosely to the wall of the womb, then burrows deeply and attaches securely to it over the next week. Sensitive pregnancy tests can now show positive, but this depends on the level of hormone produced by the new life. By the end of the second week, the mother's menstrual period is suppressed by this hormone (hCG) which is produced by her child.4
Day 17:Blood vessels begin to form.4 Remarkably, the future sex cells that will give rise to sperm or eggs for a new generation begin to group together - only 17 days after this new life is alive itself.5
Day 18-20:The foundations of the brain, spinal cord, and nervous system are laid.6
Day 21:The heart begins to beat,7 unsurely at first, gaining strength day by day. The heart beats 70 times per minute at first, reaching a maximum of 170-190 at seven weeks, and slowing a bit to 160-180 at 9 weeks.8 A day later the eyes begin to develop. The earliest stages of the ears are now present.9
Day 26-27:The lungs now begin to form.10
Day 28-32:Two tiny arms make their appearance and budding legs follow two days later.11 The beginnings of the mouth take shape.12 The nose starts to develop.13 The thyroid gland begins to grow. Blood flows in the baby's veins but stays separate from the mother's blood. The tongue now begins to form. The face now makes its first appearance.14
Day 36:The baby's eyes develop their first color in the retina (see photo above, right).15
Day 40:The baby makes her first reflex movements. Touching around the mouth with a fine bristle causes her to flex her neck.16
Day 41:The fingers begin to form, followed by the toes a few days later.17
Day 42:The baby develops nerve connections that will lead to a sense of smell. The brain is now divided into 3 parts - one to experience emotion and understand language, one for hearing and one for seeing. 18 Joints begin to form.19 Mother now misses second period.
Day 44:Buds of milk teeth appear. Facial muscles develop.20 Eyelids begin to form, protecting the developing eyes.21 Elbows take shape. Internal organs are present, but immature. 99% of muscles are present; each with its own nerve supply.22 Electrical activity is detectable in brain.23
Day 52:Spontaneous movement begins. The baby then develops a whole collection of moves over the next 4 weeks including hiccupping, frowning, squinting, furrowing the brow, pursing the lips, moving individual arms and legs, head turning, touching the face, breathing (without air), stretching, opening the mouth, yawning, and sucking.24
8 Weeks:The baby is now well-proportioned, and about the size of a thumb. Every organ is present. The liver is making blood, the kidneys function, and the heart beats steadily. The skull, elbows, and knees are forming. Of the 4500 structures in the adult body, 4000 are already present.25 The skeleton of the arms and legs and the spine begins to stiffen as bone cells are added.26
9 Weeks9 If prodded, the baby's eyelids and hands close. Genitalia that were forming in the 7th week now become visible, indicating whether it's a boy or girl. However, the doctor won't be able to tell by ultrasound until the 12th to 20th week. Early muscular movements begin. The thyroid gland turns on.27
10 Weeks10 Fingerprints begin their 7 week long formation. The fingernails begin to develop. The eyelids now fuse together until month 7, protecting the delicate eyes.28 The number of connections between nerves and muscles has tripled since last week.29
11 Weeks11 The baby now "practices" breathing, since she will have to breathe air immediately after birth. The baby urinates. Her stomach muscles can now contract.30 Vocal chords and taste buds form.31 She can make complex facial expressions and even smile.32
12 Weeks12 Fine hair begins to grow on the upper lip and chin and eyebrows.33 The baby swallows and responds to skin stimulation.32
13 Weeks13 The face is prettier, and facial expressions may resemble the parents'. The baby is active, but mom doesn't feel anything yet.34
15 Weeks15 A wild production of nerve cells begins and continues for a month. A second surge will occur at 25 weeks.35
4 MonthsNostrils and toenails become visible. The baby may suck her thumb, turn somersaults and has a firm grip. The ovaries of girls contain beginnings of eggs. She begins to develop sleeping habits.32 At about 4 ½ months she is able to experience pain.36, 37
5 MonthsThe testes descend in boys. Mom may feel the baby kick, turn or hiccup and may be able to identify a bulge as an elbow or head.38 Each side of the brain has a billion nerve cells now.36
6 MonthsThe baby will be able to hear by next week.39 The child sleeps and wakes, nestling in her favorite positions to sleep, and stretches upon waking up.40
7 MonthsThe eyelids begin to reopen, preparing to see the outside world.41 Eyelashes have now become well developed.42
8 MonthsSkin becomes pink and smooth. The pupils of eye respond to light. Fingernails reach to the tip of the finger.42 The baby is really getting cramped now.
9.5 MonthsThe child triggers labor and birth occurs, an average of 264-270 days after conception.43
And not until the baby has gone through all these events on the inside can we see the new child on the outside.

Carnegie Developmental Stages, developed by Streeter and O'Rahilly, are used universally to categorize the growth of the embryo into 23 stages during the first 8 weeks of life. Carnegie Stages are based on morphology - the form and structures within of the embryo. From embryo to embryo, the days required to get to each stage can vary slightly. Also, O'Rahilly has suggested some changes in the days relating to each stage due to in vivo ultrasound studies.43 Selected differences as reported by O'Rahilly are detailed below.
Primary References:
?Carlson, B., Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, Toronto: Mosby Publication; 3rd edition, 2004.
?Moore, K. and Persaud, T., The Developing Human, Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th Edition, Philadelphia: W.B. Sanders, 1998.
?O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd Edition, New York: John Wiley and Sons, Inc., 2001.
?Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., From Conception to Birth, a Life Unfolds, New York: Doubleday, 2002.
1. Age in this brochure is given two ways: 1) days after fertilization or days from conception given by the top red number, and 2) days from last menstrual period, or LMP for short, given by the lower red number. Doctors use "LMP" because it is hard to know just when conception occured. Here, we emphasize the age of the new life as it unfolds. Add 14 days to post-fertilization days to convert to the LMP days.
2. "Life Before Birth," Life Magazine, Apr. 30, 1965, p. 13. 3. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 37-45.
4. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 42-48, 76. 5. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 23.
6. Mitchell, B and Sharma, R., Embryology , New York: Churchill Livingstone, Dec. 2004, p. 4. Note: Carlson and Moore concur that the neural plate, fold and groove are forming around 18-20 days. O'Rahilly puts this at 24-25 days from in vivo ultrasound results.
7. Estimates vary for when the heart begins to beat: 21-22 days, Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 77; at least by 23 days from transvaginal ultrasound results, O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 183; 21-22 days, Carlson, B., p. 117; 18 days, Tanner, J. and Taylor, G. and the editors of Time-Life Books, Growth, New York: Life Science Library, 1965, p. 64 (a 40 year old source).
8. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 183.
9. Carlson, B., p. 292, 308. O'Rahilly, p. 456, 471 puts the appearance of the eye at about 28 days.
10. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p 259.
11. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p 435-437. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 382 place this at 30 days, Carlson,
B., p. 211 at 4 weeks.
12. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 235,236, Carlson, B., p. 321-323.
13. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 236-242. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 88.
14. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 346-348, 183, 236, 107. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 102.
15. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 459.
16. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 429. Carlson, B., p. 267-271.
17. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 437. 18. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 102, 114, 119.
19. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 408-411.
20. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 238. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 102.
21. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 502. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 238.
22. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 140.
23. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 428. citing Barkowski and Bernstine, 1955.
24. Carlson, B., p. 483, 484.Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 199, 200.
25. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 178, 183, 185. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 87.
26. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 409-414.
27. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 333, Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 203, 206. Carlson, B., p. XIV.
28. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 514, 519. 29. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 206. 30. Carlson, B., p. 482, XIV.
31. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 210, Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 234.
32. Valman, H. and Pearson, J., "What the foetus feels," British Medical Journal, January 26, 1980.
33. Moore, K. and Persaud, T., p. 517. 34. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 219.
35. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 156.
36. Anand, K and Hickey P, "Pain and Its Effects in the Human Neonate and Fetus." The New England Journal of Medicine, (1987) 317:1321-1329. Pain at 20 weeks, perhaps as early as 16 weeks.
37. Anand, K., Report to U. S. Federal Court as expert witness January 15, 2004.
38. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 229, Carlson, B., p. XV.
39. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, F., p. 413. 40. Tsiaras, A. and Werth, B., p. 235.
41. Carlson, B., p. 305. 42. Carlson, B., p. XV.
43. O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, p. 88-92. Birth occurs at about 38 weeks post-fertilization or 40 weeks LMP. The average from ovulation to parturition is about 264-270 days and the range about 250-285.
44. Measurements and weights from: O'Rahilly, R. and Muller, p. 491. Lengths of the baby are given in GL or Greatest Length, which excludes the limbs. GL closely follows CR or crown to rump measurements, but can also be used for very young embryos. GL is also the measurement used in ultrasonography.
Come on Bossy, do a little more than try to insult. Youv'e become boring in your ranting and ASS uming. Try to THINK and comment intellegantly. Or maybe you can't as you haven't even tried to debate ANYTHING about abortion, and this an abortion debate forum? Go figure...

reply from: Cecilia

"Intellegantly"
I think that is all pretty funny - the call to debate responsibilty- considering the amount of Biblical passages quoted.

reply from: lukesmom

"Intellegantly"
I think that is all pretty funny - the call to debate responsibilty- considering the amount of Biblical passages quoted.
Sorry, bad speller, but thanks for the correction. Not everyone here quotes the bible.

reply from: lukesmom

I am waiting for Bossy's comments on my posts about abortion. I won't hold my breath though as she is known to sidestep any kind of intelligent discussion and resorts to assumptions and rude comments instead.

reply from: smom

general statement.. that babies ARE beautiful!
As precious as life is.. You would think there would be more protections. I ponder on the fact that their are frozen babies already formed that scientists can toy with and CHOOSE who will be born or not over their genes and dna.. The babies that can be raised in a second mother's womb.. the pressure from the scientists world to genetically alter our infants with animal dna.. and the toying with baby's parts to cure the ill? and the choice of the mother to allow the baby's death well after its been concieved, formed and had time to play in the womb... you would THINK they would have MORE protection and rights for an infant to be born amongst these maniacs and thoughtless people and others... more protections than the rights of some animals. but, our priorities are to play with life. Play with the innocents. Well, the innocent grow up. And they have feelings too. I watched that show where the sperm donor babies had become grown adults and did an interview with the big O. I heard resentment in the heart of one. out of the few that were there.. i heard the pain and resentment of one.. and what if it were you? would you want to be known as the SPERM donor baby?? cheapened by your entrance in the world with a father no more known than a d@mn SPERM?! How would YOU feel?????? Life is way to precious to play with other people's lives like that. No matter what the 'parent's want... we need to consider the rights of the unborn. just a ponder.

reply from: sweet

you are right...i think back at all of the reasons my mother could have aborted me...(unmarried, unemployed, already had children...) the list goes on....she still chose my life to continue.....i was ME at conception as i am now (just smaller and younger)....abortion must be stopped.

reply from: lukesmom

Still waiting....
Giving Bossy another chance. Still waiting...

reply from: sweet

we must remember that we were all babies once........we are the same person now.....just older and bigger.....therefore treat babies/children/adults how we would want to be treated..if we were abused - abuse not...instead, hold more/hug more/love more/care more/give more than what was given to us!

reply from: yoda

According to whose bible? Hey, some proaborts say that the dictionary is mine, so how does that fit your smear?

reply from: lukesmom

According to whose bible? Hey, some proaborts say that the dictionary is mine, so how does that fit your smear?
She won't answer. She only ignores or sidesteps the "hard" questions. I've been waiting days for some of my questions, so don't bet money she'll answer...

reply from: sweet

mothers and fathers are blessed everyday with the joy of parenthood! whether they are biological or adopted...we should be thankful and do our best to be the best parents we can be......also, women who cant have children can still be blessings by helping to care for others' children! (Psa 7:17) I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.


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