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A question for Christians

I know this is irrelevant, but this is the only site I visit where there is a religious majority

by: KaylieBee

I was watching 'A Haunting' on The Discovery Channel earlier, about a woman's house that was supposedly possessed. basically weird things kept happening with the electricity, and she was having weird dreams about occultish things.
Anyway, he husband makes two attempts on her life, and she believes that he's simply 'possessed' and doesn't press charges, and actually have a priest perform an exorcism. Apparently she and the priest believed that what her dreams showed were events from the past, where members of the occult (who were played by actors who looked like rejects from the fourth Harry Potter movie) had perform an act of necromancy hundreds of years ago where her house was built, and that evil, demonic presence was still there. Near the end of the show the 'demon' thing grabbed her daughter and somehow levitated her against the wall, the only part of the show which was completely unexplainable.
Basically, I believe the woman was probably suffering from some sort of mental disorder, and unwilling to believe that her husband was a murdering psycho, and her fear of something paranormal transferred onto her children.
But my question is, do legitimate Christians actually believe in such a thing as demons and necromancy, and in actual withcraft? I don't mean metaphorically, I mean in the literal, "I say 'Avada Kedevra' and you die" sense. That people can actually summon demons?
Again, I'm not asking if you believe it metaphorically, but literally.

reply from: galen

i completely belive that for every good thing there is a bad thing too... sooo Just as thier is Good there must also be Evil and just as there is God there is also the devil.
i also believe that if you mess with things you do not understand you can become in danger from bad forces that will harm you. So don't mess with 'em.
Every major religion in the world had warnings about summoning things like demons, as they are much more spiritually powerful than us mere humans...so i tend to belive that if everyone has a warning ther must be something to all of it.
but then again i'm Irish and we have always belived in all sorts of weird stuff....

reply from: KaylieBee

But which do you think is more likely, the woman was suffering some sort of mental disorder, and her paranoia and fear transferred onto her children, and that her husband was just a psychotic murdering jerk as well as a sorry excuse for a human being, or that there were deamons bouncing around her house and possessing everything?

reply from: galen

i grew up in a haunted house... with things that moved around and flew at guests and such...
we belived in our family that things got bad just before someone we knew died...
so personally i think that BOTH scenarios are possible...even probable.
Ever watch Sci-fi and the ghost hunters... i love those guys ...
they catch some amazing evdence and they use a very scientific method ... so its cool to watch... i don't like the international guys... they seem to think everything is aghost... but the original group is very good!

reply from: 4given

This may explain the sacrificial slaughter - a mother that is convinced her child possesses the seed of an evil entity. How does this relate to abortion? I hear rape cases and abortion spelled out this way. Why then are the women I know that carried their children suddenly free of the mental disorder, fear and paranoia described in an episode of A Haunting?

reply from: galen

i would love to see someone do EVP work in an actual abortion clinic... just to see what they pick up... the anguish must be etched all over a place like that.

reply from: KaylieBee

Eh, I have trouble believing in paranormal things, even with my own experiences with it.
If I actually believed it poltergeists and ghosties and things I'd probably be crazy. I'm cool with things like aliens, but not the 'hurhur i was abducted nd the aliens mated with me' sort of thing.
Galen, you might like the stories here. Http://creepypasta.com The one that messed my up the most was about a 'guardian angel' thing that saw that 'everything went according to plan'. I keep imaging the damn thing described in it is going to be there in my bedroom at night. >_>'

reply from: galen

i've been on creepypasta before... its a cool site.
Try this one...
http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/

it has some really cool video and stuff... they are the original ghost hunters...they were around a long while before sci-fi- made them commercial.

reply from: KaylieBee

Wait, what are you saying? Was there an episode of A Haunting with something like this, or are you being metaphorical, and actually making this thread relevant to the boards?
Forgive me, it's nearly two am, and I'm hoped up on an energy drink.

reply from: KaylieBee

Ever been to 4Chan, Galen? Where the creepy pasta thing orginates from? (I can't imagine you there. =P)

reply from: 4given

I imagine that is true. I watch a lot of the haunting shows. As a child I saw darkness around people. My parents had to nail my ceiling, as I was sure I would float out and about away from my body- always tucked comfortably beneath me.. even though re-entry was painful. Sounds insane. I know... I lived through more oddities than welcomed. I have considered the many wounded- strong, dark and confused spirits left at an abortuary..

reply from: galen

actually my oldest sent me the link to creepypasta...he frequents the 4chan site i belive...
its OK.
Too bad you can't imagine me there... i'm not some prissy vitorian goody goody... you should know that by now...

reply from: KaylieBee

Yeah, but you're just not the sort of person who would frequent that site. Most people there are stupid little 14 year old boys (despite the 18+ age limit, lol) who think they're tough. You don't seem the type who would frequent a site that's flooded daily with gore and porn.
How old is your oldest?

reply from: 4given

Trying to. What is your experience with abortion?
Does it relate to anything you posted in this thread? How?

reply from: KaylieBee

I stated in the subtitle that this is completely irrelevant to the boards, and I'm only posting it here since it's the only site I visit with legitimate Christians.

reply from: galen

_____________________________
my oldest is 17 soon 18... and i don't censor him anymore... he mostly goes there to laugh at arguments about anime...
and i don't visit the porn stuff... but i am Goth and some stuff i frequent can be clled risque... or edgey... etc... its hard to describe.

reply from: KaylieBee

You're involved in a subculture that respects the corset. =) You can't help it.
It's good that you don't censor him. I usually only go there for Cute animal pics now, occasionally /x/ for paranormal stuff, but some of the pics mess me up. :/ I hate moving gifs.

reply from: galen

hey corsets are great for back pain too!
anyway gotta get sleep... meds kickin in and i have to go to mass in the AM...
have a good night.

reply from: churchmouse

Yes.
I believe satan is alive and well on this earth. He comes to divide and conquer and if you let him have a hold of your life, he will take it.
Jesus said to Peter, "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to have you, to sift you like wheat" (Luke 22:31)
The Bible teaches that the dead cannot communicate with the living. (Luke 16:26).
'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'
The Old and New Testaments treat witchcraft as an evil, rebellious, and loathsome practice. Those who practiced it were not tolerated. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," (Exodus 22:18).
Moses said, ""When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable way of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your God will drive those nations before you. You must be blameless before the Lord your God. The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord has not permitted you to do so" (Deuteronomy 18:9-14).
"He did evil in the eyes of the Lord, followed the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites" (2 Chronicles 33:2). "He sacrificed his sons in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the Lord, provoking him to anger" (2 Chronicles 33:6).
When Samuel reproved King Saul, he compared rebellion to the sin of divination and arrogance like the evil of idolatry. Witchcraft includes both divination and idolatry. "For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance like the evil of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has rejected you as king" (1 Samuel 23). If Saul was rejected by God for rebellion and arrogance so will a modern day person who practices or permits himself or herself to be entertained by witchcraft and idolatry.
Paul in Galatians 5:19-21 ascribes witchcraft as a deed of the flesh. "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy, drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Jesus said, "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung round his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin" (Luke 17:1-2).
Acts 19:19, "And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of all; and they counted up the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver."
"Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name" Luke 10:17
http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=244

Another good site......
http://www.creationists.org/spirits.html#introduction

reply from: KaylieBee

But by demons, is it being metaphorical about the evils of this world, or actually refering to like, I don't know, chupacabras and things? (that's the only monster I could think of atm, that isn't from Harry potter)

reply from: KaylieBee

I remember reading somewhere that angels were supposed to be horrifying, because of the 'fear not' thing hey always say or something.

reply from: galen

yeah.. i always found it strange that they and the putti in paintings were surounding the good guys...and then you read the descriptions on how they should look and ....wow! But i guess they don't make good greeting cards. Except maybe for halloween...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Absolutely not. I don't even believe in ghosts to be honest. There MAY be an aura around each of us from our spirit, but that's the most I even sort of believe. I'm very un-mystical, lol.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It's just statistical common sense that aliens exist out there somewhere. There are BILLIONS of other galaxies, which have BILLIONS of stars in them! It's nearly mathematically impossible that we are ALONE.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Ever been to 4Chan, Galen? Where the creepy pasta thing orginates from? (I can't imagine you there. =P)
Lol, I was about to say "wait, copypasta, creepypasta..."

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Muhammad would be an example of one possessed by a demon. He was in a cave when a demonic spirit crushed him tightly three times and commanded him to recite the Koran. Muhammad told his wife he thought he had been possessed by a demon, but she convinced him he was dealing with an angel from God. Muhammad later went on to hack the heads off many people and start a terrorist movement called Islam. 9/11 was one of the fruits of Islam.

reply from: KaylieBee

...
Oh my God. No one can seriously say something that offensive and NOT be a troll.

reply from: galen

nope not a troll... just a very sick and twisted individual... who is more interested with the virtues of a man's lower intestinal tract than the truth...
hide your eyes my dear.

reply from: faithman

Well, in a Biblical sense, all 'Demons' are the fallen angels that sided with Lucifer in the heavenly war.
So if you managed to summon a 'demon' it's simply a fallen angel paying you a visit.
They'd probably look like a regular angel - winged, beautiful, etc.
Or look like however they wanted to look at the time (perhaps horned, cloven hoofed, red skinned, pointy tail).
V is absolutly right on this one. Demonic spirits are the fallen angels, and are very real. The Lord has given true believers authority over them, and have no reason to fear them. But those without faith have good reason to fear. Ghosts and such are demons pretending to be those who have passed. The occult is very dangerous, and opens one up to demon power. I personally believe that those who claim "alien abduction" have been actually visited by demons. Many of the victims of such, also say they have been active in the occult. We had a woman come out of a coven locally, who said that they did spells to "protect" the abortion clinic. Child sacrifice has been a part of the occult for centuries.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Muhammad's experience in the cave with being "embraced tightly" three times by another entity is listed in Qurans. It tells how Muhammad received his first Sura. It's his commissioning, if you will. Muhammad did indeed at first think it was a demon. It was not only his wife, but a "man of God" in town who convinced Muhammad that he was receiving messages from the same angel (Gabriel?) that Moses received messages from. However, a reading of the Quran's messages and the fruit of the Quran reveal that it was a message foisted upon mankind by Satan sending his faithful demon assistant to Muhammad.
What's offensive? That I have an interpretation of what I've read and the fruits of Islam that I've observed?
As for the lower intestine; it's part of the digestive system and has an important life maintenance duty to support. Those who commit sodomy are doing damage to their own bodies; they are, in fact, perverse.

reply from: KaylieBee

Was he sleeping when this thing crushed him, or rather, woken up in the middle of the night unable to move?
Maybe Islam was founded because of sleep paralysis.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

You should examine the Koranic writings and related materials to get the details correct. Muhammad made an annual pilgrimage to a cave near his city for spiritual purposes. He said he was so strongly embraced three times that the breath was squeezed out of him. Some have surmised that maybe he had epiletic seizures. Two thirds of the angels stuck with God and 1/3 followed Satan, becoming demons. Muhammadans believe Muhammad had an experience with an angel sent from God, that this was the start of complete true revelations from God. I believe Muhammad had a run in with a demon sent from Satan. I believe the Quran is literally from Satan, just as Islamists believe it is word for word from Allah himself, not Muhammad's words.

reply from: KaylieBee

And you lot believe the words of the bible are straight from God, don't you?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I believe the line of transmission as stated in the Bible. God gives His message to Jesus. Jesus gives it to an angel to deliver to a righteous man. The righteous man records the message that he receives from the angel. These Holy men (such as Jeremiah) often had scribes write the message down for them.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I believe the line of transmission as stated in the Bible. God gives His message to Jesus. Jesus gives it to an angel to deliver to a righteous man. The righteous man records the message that he receives from the angel. These Holy men (such as Jeremiah) often had scribes write the message down for them.
Ever play "Whisper Down the Line" when you were a kid?
If so, you'll know why so many people cannot take the Bible seriously.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I've mentioned the "Gospel Truth" many times; which is that God is calling men and women to share His rule; to be rulers and teachers, co-inheritors with Christ of the Kingdom, a main feature of which is Government. Our inheritance is the earth. God is sharing His throne with Christ. The Messiah is sharing his throne with us, those who live lawfully that is. You must love God and neighbor. We can be part of the "God family". God is not ashamed to call us children, and Jesus calls us brothers and sisters. We are to have the same character as God, the greatest virtue being love. We are God's children literally not figuratively. God does not call angels his children, but men, first Jesus, then us, he does.
Of course, it is required that one not love the ways of this world; the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life. People must change or they will not be receiving a position. It is written, "Without faith, it is impossible to please God." Who really has the faith to believe the promises? Almost no one is willing to go on an improvement plan to adopt God's Ways and eschew the ways of the world. Most everyone is comfortable to stay in the way of the world rut. This world's ways will be passing away; pride in one's accomplishments, feastings one's eyes on things that can not lawfully be attained, fleshly overindulgences (over and above that permitted by law). And, of course, their are always Satan's Ministers out their telling you that you are trying to earn salvation by not coming "just as you are, a continuing thief, drunkard and murderer".
God says of the scribes pen, the words are written down in vain. People just don't take serious heed or action. There are a rare few who will sell all they have to get the priceless pearl; a rulership position and place of residence in the Kingdom of God. This includes great joy, eternal life, love and life with loved brothers and sisters forevermore. The earth is a beautiful inheritance. God likes gardens (parklike settings). He had Adam and Eve dress and keep one. That is what we will be doing first here on the earth, and I imagine across the entire Universe.
Life is the greatest!

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You're offensive to 99.9% of all humans on the planet, GodsLaw.

reply from: yoda

And you seem to try to offend 99.9% of all humans on this forum, Lib.

reply from: yoda

You actually enjoy offending people?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

It sure upsets the Christian posters on this forum when anybody shares facts that show the Christian religion in a bad light...Do you suppose a Muslim might be upset about your comments? Remember that they are as sure theirs is the true faith as Christians are that theirs is. It is definitely offensive. I'm not knocking you for telling it like you think it is, I'm just saying you should be honest enough to admit that you intentionally voice your beliefs in such a contemptuous fashion that it should be obvious that it is offensive.
I'm not personally offended, and I have given up on attempting to discuss Islam with you, since I have concluded that it would be pointless to continue to do so. You are firmly attached to all your misconceptions, and that is obvious. You will likely continue as you have in attempting to advance all your religious agendas on this forum for as long as you post here, and I accept that, but at least don't pretend you aren't deliberately bashing gays and Muslims at every opportunity in a way that you must surely know is offensive.
You could easily concentrate on delivering a scriptural message regarding what you deem "the Truth" (the Gospel?) rather than from the opposite angle, condemning them and insulting them personally, and in one case, their lifestyle, and on the other, the beliefs they hold as sacred as you hold yours.
Today I saw a CNN report showing how victims were murdered by a Shia militia at a Mosque in Iraq. I read a Fox News report (America's Future) today of a Muslim terrorist and convicted murderer living in Canada after his release in exchange for airplane hostages (this happened years earlier). I've watched the Fox News report "Honor Killing in America"; it was heartwrenching to hear the audios of a young woman being stabbed to death by her father (the mother held her down while dad stabbed) and the 911 call of a young woman being shot to death by her dad. The audio of the young woman being stabbed to death goes on for a couple of minutes and starts off with shrill screams, then she requests help from mom, but mom holds her down as dad stabs and says "die daughter, die". Her screams turn to moans and eventually death. The girl who was shot to death by her dad I believe was shot 8 times, her sister was also shot dead at the same time with two bullets. She calls 9/11 immediately after first shot and wails that her dad shot her, he continues shooting, she says "stop it, stop it', in an anguished terrified shrill voice she laments "I'm dying, my dad killed me". Her voice trails off and she passes away. I was completely totally enraged. I'm going after anything that causes this with a sledgehammer. Are CNN and Fox focusing too much on Muslim terrorism? The problem is, Muhammad himself was a terrorist. It is not possible to be silent on an issue that is so damaging to people. People are dying now. They will continue to die if Islam isn't tossed in the wastebasket. Honor killing because daughter will not obey dad is one of the extreme atrocities that I find offensive about Islam.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

It sure upsets the Christian posters on this forum when anybody shares facts that show the Christian religion in a bad light...Do you suppose a Muslim might be upset about your comments? Remember that they are as sure theirs is the true faith as Christians are that theirs is. It is definitely offensive. I'm not knocking you for telling it like you think it is, I'm just saying you should be honest enough to admit that you intentionally voice your beliefs in such a contemptuous fashion that it should be obvious that it is offensive.
I'm not personally offended, and I have given up on attempting to discuss Islam with you, since I have concluded that it would be pointless to continue to do so. You are firmly attached to all your misconceptions, and that is obvious. You will likely continue as you have in attempting to advance all your religious agendas on this forum for as long as you post here, and I accept that, but at least don't pretend you aren't deliberately bashing gays and Muslims at every opportunity in a way that you must surely know is offensive.
You could easily concentrate on delivering a scriptural message regarding what you deem "the Truth" (the Gospel?) rather than from the opposite angle, condemning them and insulting them personally, and in one case, their lifestyle, and on the other, the beliefs they hold as sacred as you hold yours.
Today I saw a CNN report showing how victims were murdered by a Shia militia at a Mosque in Iraq. I read a Fox News report (America's Future) today of a Muslim terrorist and convicted murderer living in Canada after his release in exchange for airplane hostages (this happened years earlier). I've watched the Fox News report "Honor Killing in America"; it was heartwrenching to hear the audios of a young woman being stabbed to death by her father (the mother held her down while dad stabbed) and the 911 call of a young woman being shot to death by her dad. The audio of the young woman being stabbed to death goes on for a couple of minutes and starts off with shrill screams, then she requests help from mom, but mom holds her down as dad stabs and says "die daughter, die". Her screams turn to moans and eventually death. The girl who was shot to death by her dad I believe was shot 8 times, her sister was also shot dead at the same time with two bullets. She calls 9/11 immediately after first shot and wails that her dad shot her, he continues shooting, she says "stop it, stop it', in an anguished terrified shrill voice she laments "I'm dying, my dad killed me". Her voice trails off and she passes away. I was completely totally enraged. I'm going after anything that causes this with a sledgehammer. Are CNN and Fox focusing too much on Muslim terrorism? The problem is, Muhammad himself was a terrorist. It is not possible to be silent on an issue that is so damaging to people. People are dying now. They will continue to die if Islam isn't tossed in the wastebasket. Honor killing because daughter will not obey dad is one of the extreme atrocities that I find offensive about Islam.
The sister of the girl who was stabbed to death by dad and mom supported her parent's actions. She said her sister, "Got what she deserved". That is Muslim honoring killing in America. See the Fox News report; "Honor Killing in America".

reply from: nancyu

She seems to, but only if it is a minority of people.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

And you seem to try to offend 99.9% of all humans on this forum, Lib.
Lie. Many people on this forum actually agree with me on many things. Actually, because of the small statistical population on this forum, it is impossible for me to offend 99.9% of you as long as a single person agrees with me. The fact is that only 6 of you dislike me, and those same 6 people dislike everyone else on this forum too, so that's not much of an achievement on my part.

reply from: yoda

Do you?
No. Do you?

reply from: yoda

She seems to, but only if it is a minority of people.
Interesting that she would not answer the question.......

reply from: yoda

And that's "more important" to you than abortion, true?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

She seems to, but only if it is a minority of people.
Interesting that she would not answer the question.......
Interesting you ignored my reply.

reply from: Cecilia

You'd actually have to take that crap seriously to find it offensive to you.

reply from: nancyu

Hmm.
No, that isn't more important to me than abortion. Laughing at/annoying bigots rates about the same level of importance as watching BSG on Wednesday nights.
Campaigning for trans rights, however, always comes first.
The unborn trans people are being killed by the thousands each day, how about those of you already born?

reply from: nancyu

Hmm.
No, that isn't more important to me than abortion. Laughing at/annoying bigots rates about the same level of importance as watching BSG on Wednesday nights.
Campaigning for trans rights, however, always comes first.
The unborn trans people are being killed by the thousands each day, how about those of you already born?
Actually, it's probably more like dozens of trans people are being killed each day. We're not particularly common. But that's beside the point.
Everyone has their chosen 'calling' or favourite cause.
Mine is trans rights. I believe I can contribute far more to that cause than the pro-life cause, as my skill sets are better suited for advancing trans rights.
I guess I can understand that. Why then on a pro life website? Are you trying to show us what a wonderful person you are?
If I've done anything to infringe on your rights as a human being, tell me how I've done that. I accept you as a person, and if I saw anyone trying to harm you I would do my best to defend you. Is there anything else I can do for you?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You'd actually have to that crap seriously to find it offensive to you.
What? I need a typo-dictionary!

reply from: yoda

Okay, why aren't you on a forum that's actually dedicated to that, or at least on a general forum where you could make it "the topic"?
You do realize that your campaign for trans rights will never be anything more than a sideshow here, don't you?

reply from: Cecilia

You'd actually have to that crap seriously to find it offensive to you.
What? I need a typo-dictionary!
Or just more imagination...
Left out the word "take".

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You'd actually have to that crap seriously to find it offensive to you.
What? I need a typo-dictionary!
Or just more imagination...
Left out the word "take".
It was the lack of "take" and the "to you" part that made no sense. I didn't know if you were trying to imply that I was offensive, or that I should be offended, or what.

reply from: yoda

Sure...... but why waste so much of your "campaigning time" here?

reply from: yoda

Duh, you've been doing that "on here" ever since you got here.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You're being very obtuse. She has only ever mentioned her trans state when it was brought up by someone else, and she has only defended the rights of trans people when those rights were attacked by others!! So she's not campaigning.

reply from: yoda

Then WHAT IS she doing here? She most certainly isn't defending babies.....

reply from: Cecilia

You'd actually have to that crap seriously to find it offensive to you.
What? I need a typo-dictionary!
Or just more imagination...
Left out the word "take".
It was the lack of "take" and the "to you" part that made no sense. I didn't know if you were trying to imply that I was offensive, or that I should be offended, or what.
I was saying that you'd actually have to take all that religious crap seriously to find it offensive, otherwise it's just a bit gag. If someone calls me a name I'd have to take it seriously to be offended but usually it's just some ridiculous power struggle so I laugh and move on with it.

reply from: cracrat

It's sharia law, not Islam that you have a problem with. You should really identify your target more careful if you're going to use such a blunt weapon.
And how do you think these people (who are willing to kill and die for their faith) are going to respond when fundamentalist Christians attempt to tear down their faith? I imagine this is the line of thinking that has started pretty much every religious war in history. I am glad that you're doing your part to show that humans are incapable of learning from their mistakes.

reply from: cracrat

Getting the woman thing down then. Do you find your ability to read a map is decreasing at a similar rate to that which your multitasking ability is increasing?

reply from: Cecilia

It's sharia law, not Islam that you have a problem with. You should really identify your target more careful if you're going to use such a blunt weapon.
And how do you think these people (who are willing to kill and die for their faith) are going to respond when fundamentalist Christians attempt to tear down their faith? I imagine this is the line of thinking that has started pretty much every religious war in history. I am glad that you're doing your part to show that humans are incapable of learning from their mistakes.
Oooh, I like you.

reply from: yoda

It's sharia law, not Islam that you have a problem with. You should really identify your target more careful if you're going to use such a blunt weapon.
That's nice, but would you mind quoting what it was that he was referring to?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You'd actually have to that crap seriously to find it offensive to you.
What? I need a typo-dictionary!
Or just more imagination...
Left out the word "take".
It was the lack of "take" and the "to you" part that made no sense. I didn't know if you were trying to imply that I was offensive, or that I should be offended, or what.
I was saying that you'd actually have to take all that religious crap seriously to find it offensive, otherwise it's just a bit gag. If someone calls me a name I'd have to take it seriously to be offended but usually it's just some ridiculous power struggle so I laugh and move on with it.
I cannot speak for the other people. I'm personally offended someone thinks these things against me and because of the implications.

reply from: cracrat

It's sharia law, not Islam that you have a problem with. You should really identify your target more careful if you're going to use such a blunt weapon.
That's nice, but would you mind quoting what it was that he was referring to?

reply from: yoda

Well whatever you call that, it should certainly be stopped.

reply from: yoda

I have to admit, I stopped reading your crap after the first week or so, you were so over the top with your virulent personal attacks on everyone in sight.
And you haven't changed much since then, have you?

reply from: churchmouse

Gosh yoda I thought I was the only one.........ha ha

reply from: yoda

Until she "outted" herself, no one really considered her anything other than a proabort troll....... but now that she claims to be "prolife", we're supposed to take her seriously....... but it's still the same old crap.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

It's sharia law, not Islam that you have a problem with. You should really identify your target more careful if you're going to use such a blunt weapon.
That's nice, but would you mind quoting what it was that he was referring to?
Not all Muslims commit "Honor Killings"; but nearly all "Honor Killings" are in the name of Allah. Not all Muslims are terrorists; but most terrorists are Muslim. Copied below is advance notice of what will be coming to your neighborhood if Muslims become the majority. Despite all the seeming restraint and calmness now, there are those who have great bitterness in their mind and secretly yearn to act on their impulses against the opposition (non-believers).
In the following example hatred against Christians had been simmering for years. As accompanies all Muslim violence committed in Allah's cause, the mosque called out Allah Akbar (Allah is Greatest) as the Christians were attacked (18 injured) and the Christian school forcefully closed.
Muhammad wrote a Mein Kampf (author Hitler) level book. It's goal: death and destruction to those who stand in the way of Islamic expansion. Technically, Satan authored the Quran, not Muhammad. That Deceiver, called Allah, Satan, the Devil, whichever you prefer, got his deadly plan rolling with the Quran.
Christian Theology Students Forced off Campus by Mob of Islamic Hard-liners
Friday, August 22, 2008
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JAKARTA, Indonesia - Hundreds of Christian theology students have been living in tents since a mob of angry Muslim neighbors stormed their campus last month wielding bamboo spears and hurling Molotov cocktails.
The incident comes amid growing concern that Indonesia's tradition of religious tolerance is under threat from Islamic hard-liners.
In talks since the attack, the Arastamar Evangelical School of Theology has reluctantly agreed to shut its 20-year-old campus in east Jakarta, accepting an offer this week to move to a small office building on the other side of the Indonesian capital.
"Why should we be forced from our house while our attackers can walk freely?" asked the Rev. Matheus Mangentang, chairman of the 1,400-student school.
The government of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, which relies on the support of Islamic parties in Parliament, is struggling to balance deep Islamic traditions and a secular constitution. With elections coming next April, the government seems unwilling to defend religious minorities, lest it be portrayed as anti-Islamic in what is the world's most populous Muslim-majority country.
The July 25 attack, which injured 18 students, was the culmination of years of simmering tensions between the school and residents of the Kampung Pulo neighborhood.
Senny Manave, a spokesman for the Christian school, said complaints were received from neighbors about prayers and the singing of hymns, which they considered disturbing evangelical activity.
Several neighbors refused to comment, saying they feared that could further strain relations. A prominent banner, signed by scores of people, has been hung over an entrance to the neighborhood.
"We the community of Kampung Pulo demand the campus be closed and dissolved," it says.
The assault began around midnight, when students woke to the crash of stones falling on their dormitory roof as a voice over a loudspeaker at a nearby mosque cried "Allah Akbar," or "God is great" in Arabic.
The unidentified speaker urged residents to rise up against their "unwanted neighbors," said Sairin, the head of campus security, who goes by a single name.
The attack followed a claim that a student had broken into a resident's house, but police dismissed the charge.
Uneasy relations date to 2003, when neighbors began to protest the school's presence. Last year, residents set fire to shelters for construction workers to try to stop the campus from expanding deeper into the neighborhood. Some also questioned the legality of the school's permit.
Christian lawmaker Karol Daniel Kadang accused property speculators of provoking last month's incident to clear the land for more profitable use, after the school refused to sell out.
He also blamed the government for failing to build interfaith relations, which he and others believe are beginning to fray.
"People are still tolerant, but there is a growing suspicion among Muslims of others," said Prof. Franz Magnis-Suseno, a Jesuit priest who has lived in Indonesia for half a century.
He added that the police have failed to prevent both attacks on minorities and the forced closure of Christian churches and nontraditional mosques by mobs incited by radical Muslims.
"The state has some responsibility for this growing intolerance, namely by not upholding the law," he said.
A mob stormed a church service last Sunday in another east Jakarta neighborhood, forcing dozens of Christian worshippers to flee, said Jakarta Police Chief Col. Carlo Tewu. No arrests have been made.
Since being driven from campus, nearly 600 female students have been sleeping under suspended tarps at a nearby scout camp, where they had to dig trenches to keep water out during downpours. Classes are held with megaphones in the sweltering summer heat, under trees or the tarps. A similar number of male students live in a guesthouse. The remainder have returned to their families.
Food, water and school supplies are donated by church groups and community charities.
"We feel like refugees in our own country," said Dessy Nope, 19, a second-year student majoring in education. "How can you study here? I only followed 20 percent of my last lesson. It's difficult to concentrate."
Christians have not been the only targets for Muslim hard-liners, who this year set fire to mosques of a Muslim sect, Ahmadiyah, that they consider heretical.
In June, the government ordered members of the sect to return to mainstream Islam, sparking concern among activists who fear the state is interfering in matters of faith and caving in to the demands of radicals.
"We're living in a country where there are many religions, but the government cannot prevent the actions of fundamentalist groups," said Manave, the school spokesman. "The government cannot protect minorities."

reply from: cracrat

But you're willing to tar them all with the same brush. That's good and fair minded of you.
No they're not, they're done for the sake of preserving a medieval sense of family honour.
I shall have to make a point of ringing the IRA, PIRA, FARC, the KKK, the Army of God, ETA and the ANC, amongst countless others, and tell them that they're clearly not doing it right since they're not Muslims.
Errr....non-Muslims were very much in the minority in the area I lived for my time at Uni. We had two mosques within a mile of each other and pretty much all the shops shut down on Fridays whilst all the owners went to prayers. Never witnessed any tension or hatred. I was never made to feel like an outsider. When I had questions, I was welcomed at the mosque, given tea and biscuits and had a jolly good chat with the chaps there. It's a wonder I was still alive to graduate at the end of such a harrowing chapter of my life.
So Muslims hating Christians is bad and must be met, presumably, with force when deemed necessary. Your hatred of Muslims though, that's fine. Why? Because they hated you first?

reply from: galen

Your fighting a loosing battle cracrat...

reply from: KaylieBee

Add Peta, elf and alf to that list of terorists, cracrat.

reply from: cracrat

Indeed it should. But such a goal is unlikely to be achieved by attacking the faith of both the victims and perpetrators of these crimes.

reply from: cracrat

Probably. But perhaps those who come here to read without posting will think twice before adopting such vile mindset if they see it being challenged.

reply from: cracrat

And N17, ISYF, LTTE, DHKP/C, Continuity Army Council, Cumann na mBan, Fianna na hEireann, Irish National Liberation Army, Irish People's Liberation Organisation, Loyalist Volunteer Force, Orange Volunteers, Red Hand Commando, Red Hand Defenders, Saor Eire, Ulster Defence Association, Ulster Freedom Fighters, Ulster Volunteer Force. The list is pretty much endless if one cares to actually look, rather than making lazy, quasi-racist assertions.

reply from: churchmouse

Honor killings in the Middle East are like abortions in America......no body want to address or talk about them....they are hidden.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070605/COLUMNIST12/706050308/0/COLUMNIST34

http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/aijac-media/tl_age_160104.html

http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2003/may/clpub.asp

Whether it has to do with religion or not.......it is a tradition in Islamic communities.

reply from: yoda

Indeed it should. But such a goal is unlikely to be achieved by attacking the faith of both the victims and perpetrators of these crimes.
If you were open minded, you would admit that in the case of GL4UTL, he is simply trying to fight two battles at once. Once against the imposition of Sharia Law, and the other against a faith he considers heretical.

reply from: yoda

I don't think there's any way to logically try to separate Sharia Law and Islam. The former does not exist without the latter.

reply from: galen

And N17, ISYF, LTTE, DHKP/C, Continuity Army Council, Cumann na mBan, Fianna na hEireann, Irish National Liberation Army, Irish People's Liberation Organisation, Loyalist Volunteer Force, Orange Volunteers, Red Hand Commando, Red Hand Defenders, Saor Eire, Ulster Defence Association, Ulster Freedom Fighters, Ulster Volunteer Force. The list is pretty much endless if one cares to actually look, rather than making lazy, quasi-racist assertions.
__________________________________________
glad to see you posting both orange and green.....

reply from: yoda

"One man's terrorist is another man's patriot"......

reply from: cracrat

Indeed it should. But such a goal is unlikely to be achieved by attacking the faith of both the victims and perpetrators of these crimes.
If you were open minded, you would admit that in the case of GL4UTL, he is simply trying to fight two battles at once. Once against the imposition of Sharia Law, and the other against a faith he considers heretical.
The is no danger of Sharia Law being applied in general in the US or the UK so the suggestion that we need to guard our cherished way of life against it is nonsense.
I fully acknowledge GL4UTL's battle against Islam. However, I know it to be wrong. To declare another religion evil simply because you don't agree with it is incredibly arrogant. To seek its destruction based on anger at the actions of a few is stupidity in the extreme. I'm curious to know how GL4UTL would respond if someone decided Christianity was spawned of Satan's beguiling based on the actions of The Army of God, then instigated a campaign to see the world rid of all Christians by whatever means necessary. I can't imagine he'd role over and accept it as a tolerable way of treating his brothers and sisters of faith. If it's not an acceptable way to be treated, it is not an acceptable way to treat others.

reply from: cracrat

I don't think there's any way to logically try to separate Sharia Law and Islam. The former does not exist without the latter.
Of course, because essentially Sharia Law answers the questions of what is acceptable behaviour not answered by the Qur'an. Sharia Law can be modified though to be more in line with modern values, just as the Church no longer burns heretics and witches at the stake. But it would require people to work with Muslims rather that fight against them.

reply from: cracrat

And N17, ISYF, LTTE, DHKP/C, Continuity Army Council, Cumann na mBan, Fianna na hEireann, Irish National Liberation Army, Irish People's Liberation Organisation, Loyalist Volunteer Force, Orange Volunteers, Red Hand Commando, Red Hand Defenders, Saor Eire, Ulster Defence Association, Ulster Freedom Fighters, Ulster Volunteer Force. The list is pretty much endless if one cares to actually look, rather than making lazy, quasi-racist assertions.
__________________________________________
glad to see you posting both orange and green.....
Well that bit was just taken from the Home Office website. The British government is usually pretty thorough when declaring Irish people unacceptable...

reply from: cracrat

Indeed. In fact if our current anti-terror laws (which I've always thought is a stupid phrase, how can you have laws against an emotion?) were in place during apartheid, supporting the ANC would have landed you in prison. What a marvellous thing to live in a 'free' country.

reply from: galen

And N17, ISYF, LTTE, DHKP/C, Continuity Army Council, Cumann na mBan, Fianna na hEireann, Irish National Liberation Army, Irish People's Liberation Organisation, Loyalist Volunteer Force, Orange Volunteers, Red Hand Commando, Red Hand Defenders, Saor Eire, Ulster Defence Association, Ulster Freedom Fighters, Ulster Volunteer Force. The list is pretty much endless if one cares to actually look, rather than making lazy, quasi-racist assertions.
__________________________________________
glad to see you posting both orange and green.....
Well that bit was just taken from the Home Office website. The British government is usually pretty thorough when declaring Irish people unacceptable...
_________________________________________
yup that was the point of the comment....*shrug*

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I don't think there's any way to logically try to separate Sharia Law and Islam. The former does not exist without the latter.
We started looking into Islam because of 9/11; it caught one's attention, it was a wake up call if you will.
Cracrat is the Muslim or sympathetic thereto, so he can correct some misunderstandings.
Qu'ran - The literal words of Allah.
Hadith - The sayings of Muhammad.
Sharia Law - compiled a few centuries after Muhammad. The purpose is to help Muslims please God by classifying behavior into certain categories (obligatory, desirable, neutral, not desirable, forbidden).

reply from: Jameberlin

Yep, literally, if there is a God and angels, there must be an antethesis. Satan and demons.

reply from: Cecilia

If there is an omnipotent God, there does not need to be Satan and demons or any rules such as this whatsoever.
Of course, I haven't done much thinking on this topic so I could be convinced otherwise.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

If there is an omnipotent God, there does not need to be Satan and demons or any rules such as this whatsoever.
Of course, I haven't done much thinking on this topic so I could be convinced otherwise.
Omnipotence does not mean Satan cannot exist. Jut because God is all powerful doesn't necessarily mean he USES it. The explanation as to why is a bit more complicated, but involves him wanting us to make the CHOICE to join him. I can explain omniscience a lot more easily lol.

reply from: Jameberlin

If there is an omnipotent God, there does not need to be Satan and demons or any rules such as this whatsoever.
Of course, I haven't done much thinking on this topic so I could be convinced otherwise.
Omnipotence does not mean Satan cannot exist. Jut because God is all powerful doesn't necessarily mean he USES it. The explanation as to why is a bit more complicated, but involves him wanting us to make the CHOICE to join him. I can explain omniscience a lot more easily lol.
LCR is right, God's omnipotence and the existence of satan are not mutually exclusive. There does not need to be any satan, but we believe that satan exists in order to test our free will. Should we be tempted by satan and reject God, it is our exercising our own free will. If there were no antitheses to God, our free will would not be possible. Without two options to choose from, there is no choice, only following blindly. God did not wish this for us, so He allowed satan to exist, He allowed Lucifer to rebel and take some of the heavenly host with him into hell. God want's man to come to him out of his own free choice, to choose to love him. Were God happy with unconditional love, that was not given freely, he would have stopped with the creation of the angels and there would have been no need for him to create humanity.
I also personally believe without evil, there can be no true good. Kind of like, how a life with no pain isn't capable of true happiness. What would you have to base your happiness off of if you had no knowledge of the opposite? You might be happy, sure, but it would be incomplete and without true appreciation.

reply from: Cecilia

I am not sure I was writing clearly; there is no requirement for an antithesis to exist to prove the existence of god or whichever concept. I see you have placed that in your response, but I wanted to be clear.
I am thoroughly confused. Why do you follow this religion of a God who you believe encourages suffering so that you can choose him?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

This is a Harry Potter reference, but it does directly conflict with what you said. In the books, Voldemort is referred to by the wizarding world as "He Who Shall Not Be Named". Harry rejects this and calls Voldemort by his name all the time, stating that by not naming him they were admitting to a fear of him, and by naming him they were "outing" him and defying him in a way, defying his fearful grasp on everyone else.
I don't know how I feel about the existence of satan. I don't think I believe that evil has a physical manifestation, because evil is simply the absence, corruption or defiance of good.

reply from: Jameberlin

I am not sure I was writing clearly; there is no requirement for an antithesis to exist to prove the existence of god or whichever concept. I see you have placed that in your response, but I wanted to be clear.
I am thoroughly confused. Why do you follow this religion of a God who you believe encourages suffering so that you can choose him?
God doesn't encourage suffering, he allows it to exist. It's like, allowing your child to make his own mistakes, knowing that he'll learn from them.
I never said i follow any religion. I'm not a church going Christian.

reply from: Cecilia

Sorry, you used the personal pronoun "we" as in "we believe that satan exists..." so I thought that was your belief.


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