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the cost of choosing life

women killed for choosing life

by: galen

i read these stories and i am so sad for these lost souls...it alsways reinforces why i work so hard for the sucess of my shelter... i hope one day that society will no longer need us and we will one day go out of buisness...
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/1631/26/

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Remembering the Victims Killed for Refusing to Abort
REMEMBERING THE VICTIMS: WOMEN AND GIRLS KILLED FOR REFUSING TO ABORT

Following is just a partial list of women and girls who have been murdered because they refused to undergo abortions.

We remember all pregnant victims of violence and their unborn children as we continue to work for a society where all life is respected.

TAMMY LYNN BAKER -- Killed by a pipe bomb set off by her boyfriend because he didn't want to pay child support. Her eight-month-old unborn baby also died.

CASSANDRA BETTS -- Shot to death in front of her seven- year-old daughter in Dec. 2000 by her boyfriend after she refused to abort. Her unborn baby also died.

STEPHANIE NICOLE BURNETT, 16 -- Killed by her 16-year-old boyfriend because he didn't want her to have a baby. An autopsy showed she was not pregnant.

TANIKA RACHELLE FOX, 17 -- Killed by her 21-year-old boyfriend because she refused to have an abortion and he didn't want to pay child support. Her unborn baby also died.

CHERICA ADAMS, 24 -- Killed in Nov. 1999 for refusing to abort. Her unborn son survived. Her boyfriend was convicted for plotting her death.

SONYA HAYES -- Killed with her unborn baby by her boyfriend. At trial, witnesses testified that her boyfriend wanted her to have an abortion and that he threatened to kill the baby.

SHAKEISHA LLOYD -- Ten years old, she was shot to death along with two elderly relatives in 1991 by the man who had been sexually abusing her after he tried to convince her to abort. Her 17-week-old unborn baby also died.




DEANA MITTS -- Killed on New Year's Day 1999 by a pipe bomb set off by her ex-boyfriend for refusing to abort. Her unborn baby and seven-year-old daughter also died.

DEBORAH MOODY -- Killed by her ex-boyfriend in 1997 for refusing to abort. Her unborn baby also died.

LORENA RIVERA, 21 -- Killed by her boyfriend in 1997 for refusing to abort. Her unborn baby also died.

DAPHNE SULK, 15 -- Killed by a 38-year-old man who had been sexually exploiting her, because she refused to abort. Her unborn baby also died.

JENNIFER PECK -- Killed by her husband for refusing to abort. Her four-month old unborn baby also died.
[THE ELLIOT INSTITUTE NEWS Vol.2, No. 3 -- April 8, 2004, http://
]http://www.AfterAbortion.Info]

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[THE ELLIOT INSTITUTE NEWS Vol.2, No. 3 -- April 8, 2004, http://
]http://www.AfterAbortion.Info]

ELLIOT INSTITUTE APPLAUDS UNBORN VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE ACT
President Bush signed a bill on April 1 that provides additional legal protection for pregnant mothers and their unborn children. The federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act will allow prosecutors to bring criminal charges when an unborn child is killed or injured as a result of a violent act against the mother.

The act covers federal cases, including kidnapping, terrorist bombings, and crimes committed on federal property. The families of several pregnant women who had been murdered -- including the mother and stepfather of Laci Peterson -- surrounded Bush as he signed the bill into law.

Studies of death rates among pregnant women in three different parts of the country -- Maryland, New York state, and Cook County, Illinois -- have found that homicide was the leading killer of pregnant women.

In the Maryland study, published in 2001 in the prestigious "Journal of the American Medical Association," homicide was the cause of death for 20 percent of pregnant women while murder accounted for only 6.4 percent of deaths among non-pregnant women.

"Women are literally being killed for refusing to abort," said David Reardon, Ph.D., Elliot Institute director, and the author of numerous books and journal articles on abortion complications. He said that between thirty and sixty percent of all abortions are performed to satisfy the demands of others. "Coercion is far more common than most people realize, and sometimes the coercion can escalate to violence and even murder," he said.

Currently 29 states also have laws protecting unborn victims of violence, although at different stages of pregnancy. The California Supreme Court recently upheld the state's unborn victims' act, which is being used to prosecute Scott Peterson for the murder of the couple's unborn son, Conner.

However, attempts to pass a similar bill in Nebraska have been stalled by pro-abortion state Senator Ernie Chambers, who has filed 21 different amendments to the bill in what pro-life advocates say is an attempt to kill the legislation.

The amendments include one that seeks to replace the phrase "unborn child" in the bill with the phrase "laddy or lassie," and another says that any prosecutor who files unborn victims charges "shall be taken into custody . . . for the purpose of having such prosecutor's head examined by a licensed psychiatrist."

"Senator Chambers' attempts to trivialize these acts of violence is appalling, especially in light of the fact that a pregnant 17-year-old girl, Michelle Harlan, was murdered in his state last year during her eighth month of pregnancy," Reardon said.

"He has a right to oppose the bill, but these frivolous amendments cast ridicule on the deaths of Michelle, her child, and are an insult to all pregnant women who are victims of violence, their unborn children, and their families."
[THE ELLIOT INSTITUTE NEWS Vol.2, No. 3 -- April 8, 2004, http://]http://www.AfterAbortion.Info]

reply from: carolemarie

Thanks for posting that! It is so sad that those women and their children were killed.
A couple years ago, Lisa Underwood was strangled by her ex-boyfriend for refusing to abort, (he didn't want his wife to find out) he also killed her 11 year old son. She was 8 months pregnant at the time.

reply from: Jameberlin

I think these facts are necessary in order for people to understand the impact abortion on demand has made on the value of a human life in this country.
There have always been murderers and people who thrive on exploitation, but it seems to me that now, there is so much more room for people to commit these terrible acts without fear of justice.
I can't imagine, being so much more afraid of one little baby, than a lifetime in prison or eternity in hell. I can't imagine being driven to kill someone for their effort to save a life.
It's truly a dangerous time for women to be pregnant, and for babies to be conceived.
"SHAKEISHA LLOYD -- Ten years old, she was shot to death along with two elderly relatives in 1991 by the man who had been sexually abusing her after he tried to convince her to abort. Her 17-week-old unborn baby also died."
And people think abortion is not a means for a man to continue abuse of a young girl? Is it liberating, i wonder, for a young girl to be raped and forced to abort over and over? And for abortion clinics that counsel girls to lie about their age, and the paternity of the baby... places that don't report child abuse, what moral standard are they operating by? Legally, shouldn't all abortions obtained by underage girls be reported as potential child abuse? When a child goes to the ER for bruises, and CPS is called, Dr/Patient confidentiality is casually tossed aside, while these abortionists fight for the "right" for their patients "privacy", even if that privacy means going back home to an abusive man.
It sickens me. The only factor here, is money. It's money that these men kill these women and babies over, it's money that keeps the clinics from reporting rape cases, it's money that lines the pockets of politicians and corporations that thrive on this industry.
It's Sweeny Todd, only instead of making adults into meat pies, we're turning our babies into a multi-billion dollar industry of bio hazardous material and stem cells.

reply from: sheri

It is so disgusting to me that the word "choice" is synonymous with abortion. Choice is the last thing most of these poor women have. That is why it is so important to have pregnancy help centers in as many towns as possible.
These men who killed these women are a prime example of why so many women go against their very nature and take their own childs life. These men and others like them are the back bone of the prodeath movement.

reply from: Jameberlin

Isn't it weird though, that so many who advocate "choice" vehemently defend it by saying they're not advocating abortion? It IS synonymous with abortion though, and i know may pro "choicers" who willingly impose their opinions on what a woman should do with her baby if she's deemed to be in less than desirable condition to be a mother.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Any true pro-choicer is as outraged by these deaths as a pro-lifer, because they feel 100% that if a woman chooses LIFE, that is her right as a woman to CHOOSE what she wants to do. Pro-choicers are appalled by forced abortions too you know. They do NOT approve of this kind of behavior. They would not be "proud" of a mother dragging her child to an abortion clinic for a forced abortion. They would in fact want to jail that mother for kidnapping and child abuse.
THAT is why "choice" is in the name. LIFE is a choice too!! Pro-choicers defend the right to give birth!!

reply from: galen

unfortunately most of the people i meet who state they are prochoice are anything but. They want it to be THIER choice that is imposed upon women. Most of the men i meet whose wives and SO are in the shelter are vehemently pro choice and will defend thier CHOICE to beat thier women into submission.

reply from: Jameberlin

This has been the majority of choicers i've met too... There is a huge stigma in being pregnant and unmarried, and most prochoicers will let you know what they think you should be doing.

reply from: galen

i agree... while i preach abstinace at every turn i am wordly enough to realise that is not the case for all women... and NO ONE deserves to be killed just because they choose to remain pregnant.
i am also against women to use the threat of abortion to coerce a man into doing what they want. i met a couple of those today doing routine pregnancy tests for free at the shelter...

reply from: Jameberlin

That's terrible. Some women are not above using the lives of children to manipulate and abuse their men, but such is the sociopath.
I find that for some unwed young mothers i've known, birthing their child is what saved them from continuing down a path of self-loathing and bad choices. I think it's terrible, that pregnant girls feel the need to have abortions, just so people don't look at them cockeyed every time they go somewhere or do anything.
I had one particular friend who found herself pregnant at 18, and was told by her family that she must abort, because she was too selfish and immature to be a decent mother. Once she informed them she was past the point of obtaining one legally, they continued to tell her they wouldn't support her and wouldn't help her with the pregnancy at all unless she gave the baby up for adoption. As a result, she felt she needed to convert and marry the man who got her pregnant, who ended up abusive and now they're divorced with a 4 year old. I think, had her family supported her want to become a mother, she would have finished school and been a much better single mother to her child than a battered divorcee. This is just my opinion, but i think if we had more support for pregnant women, they would be able to be better parents... I think the preachyness of some pro choicers really damages women, and their children.
Hmmm, methinks i'm rambling.

reply from: galen

nah.. not too much.
i do agree though... the stigma of pregnancy MUST be lifted... once a child is there its there... you can not unring that particular bell.
if you do not want unwed moms and abused moms you MUST teach children and society as a whole to view the situation diffrently than they do now. All the preaching in the world won't correct the problem, society as a whole must learn to view it diffrently.

reply from: Jameberlin

I've noticed that it's not just unwed moms who are stigmatized, it's couples with more than three children, large families.
Every time my sister proclaims she has 4 kids, you hear "FOUR?! HOW DO YOU HAVE SO MANY?!" and my personal favorite "DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT CAUSES THAT!?" (my oh so sweet and demure grandmother asked a friend of my parents that when he announced he had 11 children, to which he replied "YES, and i LIKE IT." lol)
I think it's important to show the beauty in being a family, and to illustrate the joy it can bring. It's not bad to have kids, they continue our way of life, our culture! Children are a blessing, and should always be seen as such.
I get angry when i think about how our culture views children, and how people think it's not good to bring them into the world, but i say, children can only make the world a better place if we teach them how good it can be.
I think the only way the stigma of family(pregnancy) will be lifted is if our society stops seeing children as burdens.
I forget the name of that man who says people are happier without children, i can't believe anyone would take his words seriously... i mean, he never asked ME how i felt about it. I don't think we'll be happy with our babies as a society though, until we learn that it's not the end of life to have them. I for one, am much more fulfilled and joyful with my son, than i ever was before... This is coming straight from the mouth of a once stigmatized unwed pregnant woman, my kid saved my life... I think if we allow other women the same chance, their kids could save their lives too.

reply from: nancyu

Fantastic post! It must be repeated. Again, and again.

reply from: nancyu

Fantastic post! It must be repeated. Again, and again.
And again.

reply from: Hosea

It is a terrible thing that these men do this. This is what happens from the choice mentallity. Men feel like they have no choice in the abortion decision and they make their choice by killimg the mom with the baby. It is wrong as are all choices that take a life.
Some men are not that drastic. Some men are a little less cruel. They threaten to leave their pregnant wife so that she will be alone with her other children without an income if she does not abort. That is not "choice" either.
The women who do not abort when they know they will undergo many hardships are so brave and I am so proud of them. All people sin and most of our sins are hidden from man, but those who are pregnant outside of marriage are out there for all to see and unfortunaetly judge. That is why I volunteer at a PCP to help mothers in difficult pregnancies, phyically, emotionally, and medically. This way women have a choice even if a man is threatening their choice.

reply from: Jameberlin

Well put Hosea, i agree with you about the choice mentality leading to these, and other, crimes.

reply from: jujujellybean

this is soooooooo sad. poor women. poor babies.

reply from: galen

Well put Hosea, i agree with you about the choice mentality leading to these, and other, crimes.
_________________________________________________________
it all comes down to wanting to controll other people ( unborn people included)
When you learn that its OK to force yourself and your desires on others, then it becomes Ok to use ultimate force to controll thier actions... its why abusers abuse... controll.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Abusive men have killed their women and children even when pregnancy is not involved. If you look at the statistics, they are telling:
from: http://endabuse.org/resources/facts/

"Pevalence of Domestic Violence
Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend per year1 to three million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year.
Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime.
Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey.

Nearly 25 percent of American women report being raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date at some time in their lifetime, according to the National Violence Against Women Survey, conducted from November 1995 to May 1996"
These women and their children need help, too.

reply from: yoda

Sadly, that appears to be the case, as in the other life/death issues facing our society.

reply from: galen

our shelter turns away no woman or her kids... in fact we are the only one in a tr county area that has no exceptions for children or pregnancy....

reply from: yoda

Exactly.... and of course, elective abortion means the parents making their choice to take away their child's very life, and every possible choice that child might ever make had they let it live. They want all the choices, and their child to have none.

reply from: BossMomma

It's always sad that a man would sooner kill a woman and child rather than allow her to exercise her right to choose.

reply from: BossMomma

That's terrible. Some women are not above using the lives of children to manipulate and abuse their men, but such is the sociopath.
I find that for some unwed young mothers i've known, birthing their child is what saved them from continuing down a path of self-loathing and bad choices. I think it's terrible, that pregnant girls feel the need to have abortions, just so people don't look at them cockeyed every time they go somewhere or do anything.
I had one particular friend who found herself pregnant at 18, and was told by her family that she must abort, because she was too selfish and immature to be a decent mother. Once she informed them she was past the point of obtaining one legally, they continued to tell her they wouldn't support her and wouldn't help her with the pregnancy at all unless she gave the baby up for adoption. As a result, she felt she needed to convert and marry the man who got her pregnant, who ended up abusive and now they're divorced with a 4 year old. I think, had her family supported her want to become a mother, she would have finished school and been a much better single mother to her child than a battered divorcee. This is just my opinion, but i think if we had more support for pregnant women, they would be able to be better parents... I think the preachyness of some pro choicers really damages women, and their children.
Hmmm, methinks i'm rambling.
As a successful single mother I can vouch that sometimes the family is better off without the man.

reply from: carolemarie

Some will kill them IF they get the abortion as well.
It is all about them and what they want.

reply from: BossMomma

Some will kill them IF they get the abortion as well.
It is all about them and what they want.
Ain't that the truth, my ex-hubby would run off with my son for months at a time just to scare me back into submission. He didn't care what conditions my son was kept under just so long as he got his way.

reply from: carolemarie

How horrible! It must have been really scary for you, wondering about your son....

reply from: BossMomma

How horrible! It must have been really scary for you, wondering about your son....
-------------------------
Carolemarie,
www.myspace.com/silentnomorewichita
For help after abortion:
www.choices4women.org
It was but I raked the prick across the coals in court.

reply from: 4given

There is a button- it says "quote". Click then reply. How did your son disappear for months at a time? Run off to scare you into submission? Seems a little fetched to me. Obviously he loved his child, or would not take and care for him for months at a time, right?

reply from: BossMomma

There is a button- it says "quote". Click then reply. How did your son disappear for months at a time? Run off to scare you into submission? Seems a little fetched to me. Obviously he loved his child, or would not take and care for him for months at a time, right?
So not knowing where your child is, whether or not he's being treated well, whose watching him etc. wouldn't bother you? Sorry but I'm rather attached to my kids but if indifference is your cup of tea so be it.

reply from: 4given

It would be more than bothersome to me. What is more bothersome is that the child you care so deeply for could have been sentenced to a violent, cold and indifferent death because you may have allowed it.

reply from: BossMomma

Originally posted by: BossMomma
So not knowing where your child is, whether or not he's being treated well, whose watching him etc. wouldn't bother you? Sorry but I'm rather attached to my kids but if indifference is your cup of tea so be it.
It would be more than bothersome to me. What is more bothersome is that the child you care so deeply for could have been sentenced to a violent, cold and indifferent death because you may have allowed it.
Oh right, we pro-choice advocates can't possibly love our children could we? Just because we aren't idiotically waving signs in the faces of women entering Women's health centers and, throwing up pictures of late term still born fetuses on the internet along with religious rhetoric. I can't possibly love my 6 year old, my 10 month old or, the 15 week old in my womb...puhlease.

reply from: 4given

Quote function Becca! I would not say you are incapable of loving the children you choose not to kill. How as a mother can you advocate that others do the same? Why deprive them of the same love- or the children of the opportunity to experience love? Not necessarily from their birth parents either. How do you love your 15 week womb child? As a parent, I loved my babies when I learned of them- but I value life. What if your fetus is a criminal and you have to keep him or her in line, strip search or feed them through that slot in the door when on lockdown, or "in the hole"?

reply from: BossMomma

Quote function Becca! I would not say you are incapable of loving the children you choose not to kill. How as a mother can you advocate that others do the same? Why deprive them of the same love- or the children of the opportunity to experience love? Not necessarily from their birth parents either. How do you love your 15 week womb child? As a parent, I loved my babies when I learned of them- but I value life. What if your fetus is a criminal and you have to keep him or her in line, strip search or feed them through that slot in the door when on lockdown, or "in the hole"?
Actually officers are required to report that one of their family members is entering the prison system so that the offender is not sent to the same correctional facility that their relative works at. Furthermore I love my children because they are my children, parts of my heart and soul. The unwanted pregnancies of other women are beyond my control, I advocate choice because I fear for what women will do if stripped of the ability to choose. Back Alley abortions performed by quacks who would kill both woman and baby. I wish no child were aborted, I dislike abortion as I dislike war but I accept that in both circumstances I am powerless to stop it. All the waving of signs, all the biblical outcry in the world will not stop a woman bent on terminating her pregnancy. Taking away the choice to do so will only lead to dangerous extremes, the past will repeat it'self.

reply from: 4given

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?

reply from: BossMomma

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?
No, I advocate choice because other women's pregnancies are not my business. And by the way, what substance are you abusing that you would twist a perfectly logical post into an admission of indifference? I do care but what do you expect me to do? Would switching my beliefs to pro-life somehow save a baby from abortion? Are my opinions that powerful? Because yours darn sure aren't. Thus far all I've seen in you is an irrational, possibly adolescent troll hell bent on continuing a pointless arguement. If you are pro-life and not actively trying to save babies then you are just as effective as me, for all your outcry and snarling against me for my thoughts you haven't saved even one baby your damn self. So instead of condemning me on a message board at 2 am why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go save a baby.

reply from: 4given

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?
No, I advocate choice because other women's pregnancies are not my business. And by the way, what substance are you abusing that you would twist a perfectly logical post into an admission of indifference? I do care but what do you expect me to do? Would switching my beliefs to pro-life somehow save a baby from abortion? Are my opinions that powerful? Because yours darn sure aren't. Thus far all I've seen in you is an irrational, possibly adolescent troll hell bent on continuing a pointless arguement. If you are pro-life and not actively trying to save babies then you are just as effective as me, for all your outcry and snarling against me for my thoughts you haven't saved even one baby your damn self. So instead of condemning me on a message board at 2 am why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go save a baby.
No. You advocate death because other people aren't important to you.
The indifference here comes from within (to thine own self be true). No substance or night stick authority can ever erase what you have become and the hideous act you promote. Stand for something. I was asking you a question about your ideas on pro lifers. You stated that pro-lifers "wave signs and have a biblical outcry.." Do you believe that is so? Why then are you here Becca? Nothing better to do- no babies to care for?

reply from: faithman

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?
No, I advocate choice because other women's pregnancies are not my business. And by the way, what substance are you abusing that you would twist a perfectly logical post into an admission of indifference? I do care but what do you expect me to do? Would switching my beliefs to pro-life somehow save a baby from abortion? Are my opinions that powerful? Because yours darn sure aren't. Thus far all I've seen in you is an irrational, possibly adolescent troll hell bent on continuing a pointless arguement. If you are pro-life and not actively trying to save babies then you are just as effective as me, for all your outcry and snarling against me for my thoughts you haven't saved even one baby your damn self. So instead of condemning me on a message board at 2 am why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go save a baby.
AAAAAAHHHHH the stupid scanc runs her pie whole. You happen to be talking to a person who is a leader of the personhood movement in the state of New Hampshire. She, and many members of her family post this http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpgAt many venues all across the state. Not only are you ignorant, but an ignorant fool.http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg

reply from: BossMomma

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?
No, I advocate choice because other women's pregnancies are not my business. And by the way, what substance are you abusing that you would twist a perfectly logical post into an admission of indifference? I do care but what do you expect me to do? Would switching my beliefs to pro-life somehow save a baby from abortion? Are my opinions that powerful? Because yours darn sure aren't. Thus far all I've seen in you is an irrational, possibly adolescent troll hell bent on continuing a pointless arguement. If you are pro-life and not actively trying to save babies then you are just as effective as me, for all your outcry and snarling against me for my thoughts you haven't saved even one baby your damn self. So instead of condemning me on a message board at 2 am why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go save a baby.
No. You advocate death because other people aren't important to you.
The indifference here comes from within (to thine own self be true). No substance or night stick authority can ever erase what you have become and the hideous act you promote. Stand for something. I was asking you a question about your ideas on pro lifers. You stated that pro-lifers "wave signs and have a biblical outcry.." Do you believe that is so? Why then are you here Becca? Nothing better to do- no babies to care for?
Pro-lifers do stand outside of women's centers holding signs, baby dolls painted to look bloody, driving trucks with graphic pictures of still born feti on the sides not caring that small children may be looking on. Do you deny that this has happened as a result of pro-life outcry? I'm here because I choose to be here, just like I choose to advocate that each woman be allowed to decide for herself. As far as my kids go, when I'm online they are either eating, sleeping or, playing under my watchful eye or, under the watchful eye of my boyfriend.

reply from: yoda

"Our" children is the key word there. If it's anyone else's children, do you really care if they are killed?

reply from: yoda

I'm always fascinated by the way you proaborts use euphemisms when you speak about abortion. In this case, you just didn't finish your sentence.
"Decide" what? Decide to do what? Decide to do what to whom? Or does the word "decide" always mean "to kill, or not to kill a baby" in your mind?
Do you think that deciding to kill is just another decision that we make in the course of a day? Just like picking a color for a garment?

reply from: galen

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?
No, I advocate choice because other women's pregnancies are not my business. And by the way, what substance are you abusing that you would twist a perfectly logical post into an admission of indifference? I do care but what do you expect me to do? Would switching my beliefs to pro-life somehow save a baby from abortion? Are my opinions that powerful? Because yours darn sure aren't. Thus far all I've seen in you is an irrational, possibly adolescent troll hell bent on continuing a pointless arguement. If you are pro-life and not actively trying to save babies then you are just as effective as me, for all your outcry and snarling against me for my thoughts you haven't saved even one baby your damn self. So instead of condemning me on a message board at 2 am why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go save a baby.
___________________________________________________________
you know if all of us said that we can't make a diffrence then we won't.
First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.
Martin Niemoeller quote

reply from: BossMomma

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?
No, I advocate choice because other women's pregnancies are not my business. And by the way, what substance are you abusing that you would twist a perfectly logical post into an admission of indifference? I do care but what do you expect me to do? Would switching my beliefs to pro-life somehow save a baby from abortion? Are my opinions that powerful? Because yours darn sure aren't. Thus far all I've seen in you is an irrational, possibly adolescent troll hell bent on continuing a pointless arguement. If you are pro-life and not actively trying to save babies then you are just as effective as me, for all your outcry and snarling against me for my thoughts you haven't saved even one baby your damn self. So instead of condemning me on a message board at 2 am why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go save a baby.
___________________________________________________________
you know if all of us said that we can't make a diffrence then we won't.
First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.
Martin Niemoeller quote
there are masses of pro-fetal-lifers out there, adding myself to their ranks really wouldn't go here or there. You have yet to make a point.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I'm always fascinated by the way you proaborts use euphemisms when you speak about abortion. In this case, you just didn't finish your sentence.
"Decide" what? Decide to do what? Decide to do what to whom? Or does the word "decide" always mean "to kill, or not to kill a baby" in your mind?
Do you think that deciding to kill is just another decision that we make in the course of a day? Just like picking a color for a garment?
No, women don't take the decision to abort or not lightly. And obviously, it's not a decision any one woman could possibly make on a daily basis (what a moronic comparison!) They gather all the information they can from a variety of sources, consider their options very seriously and make the decision as to what is best for themselves (and their families, too.)
Are you still in the group of dingdongs who think women get pregnant one day, don't abort, then suddenly decide about 8 months later that they'll just run out and get an abortion? You certainly write that way.
It's very strange that the pro-lifers are the ones who mock women and offer simplistic, idiotic attempts at comparing abortion to, say, what they'll eat for lunch today. Pro-choicers understand the importance of the decision and the need to think about it long and carefully before doing ANYTHING.

reply from: Agape

Does every woman do this kind of research over this choice? Do they have anxiety about it? Do they agonize over it? Is it something that's constantly on their mind?
(I know you can't speak for 'every' woman but what are your impressions?)

reply from: BossMomma

Does every woman do this kind of research over this choice? Do they have anxiety about it? Do they agonize over it? Is it something that's constantly on their mind?
(I know you can't speak for 'every' woman but what are your impressions?)
This question wasn't directed at me but yes, some women feel regret over aborting a pregnancy because the aborted under the pressures of family, an unwilling father or, simple terror at becoming a mother. On the flip side though, some women regret giving birth. Some wish they had aborted due to equally overwhelming circumstances. That is why I feel that each women should be able to choose her path without outside pressures from others.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Does every woman do this kind of research over this choice? Do they have anxiety about it? Do they agonize over it? Is it something that's constantly on their mind?
(I know you can't speak for 'every' woman but what are your impressions?)
I will put it this way - every woman I know personally who has had an abortion went to great lengths to be sure that she could live with her decision. I also do not know ANY woman who has had more than one abortion, and all of them got pregnant due to birth control failure.
Many women who write about having abortions say the same. The ones who experience regret, depression and the other aftereffects cited by pro-lifers as reasons to make abortion illegal are those women whose religion forbids abortion, those who were not really sure they wanted to abort and those who found religion after their abortion(s).
There are actually several pro-life leaders who have had six or more abortions, which we "normal" women find astonishing, considering that some of them aborted several times while married! The women I know who had abortions did everything they could to prevent another accidental pregnancy, including having tubal ligations or convincing their partners to get vasectomies.
To pro-choicers, abortion is a very serious subject, not to be taken lightly or used as a form of birth control.

reply from: Agape

Thanks for both of your responses.
I just wonder that if it is such an agonizing decision that has has to be so thoroughly researched for so many if it is the right decision to be made.
But RML-abortion is a form of birth control. It is technically controlling birth. The word should be contraception I suppose.
BossMomma, I have never met a woman who regretted giving birth. I googled that phrase and variants of it and come up with "i regret giving birth in a hospital" or women who say that in an abusive manner to children like "I regret giving birth to you". I'm not saying there aren't women like this out there but I bet there are far more who regret having an abortion than giving birth. It's not really a sound argument.

reply from: Jameberlin

Does every woman do this kind of research over this choice? Do they have anxiety about it? Do they agonize over it? Is it something that's constantly on their mind?
(I know you can't speak for 'every' woman but what are your impressions?)
Not every woman does. Plenty of women, especially young women who find themselves in that position choose to abort simply because it is the easiest way to "get out of trouble".
Remember my friend who would only have an abortion if it were her husband's baby? She's not the only person i know who takes that "choice" incredibly lightly. I find some people put entirely too much trust into the young women who are having 84% of abortions today. Most... actually all of the girls i know who have abortions have done so because they wanted to continue partying, drinking, drugs, anonymous sex, etc. I have yet to meet a single woman who had an abortion, deliberated and agonized over the choice and did it so she could go back to work/school or a normal fulfilling life. I know not every woman just chooses to abort on a whim, but there are many, many women who do, and pay for it later.

reply from: Jameberlin

RiverMoonLady,
the ladies you know who have had abortions all sound like fairly responsible adults. I'm glad they took the necessary precautions to avoid further pregnancies, i often hear about women having multiple abortions and just wonder "why?" Why would you put your body through that over and over?
The fact is though, the ladies you know are a minority. Over 40% of abortions are repeated, my sister had 3 by the time she was 24 (i think, i don't know her exact age). I knew one girl who was a year ahead of me in Jr. high who was on her second abortion. Still my other sister had one at 17 because she wanted to continue to do drugs (she's recovered now, thank God). One of my aunts had one in the late 70's, she lost her fertility and made the choice because she didn't want to have to quit drinking or smoking pot. My other aunt had one in high school because she wasn't yet married to my uncle... they did eventually marry and have 3 children, but i don't think she ever really forgave herself. None of these women were using birth control, and not a single one of them chose to educate themselves on what abortion was before they went ahead with it.
My oldest sister refuses to use any artificial birth control, including condoms... She's currently trying to conceive at 32 and is having no luck so far. I only hope and pray that if she does end up conceiving, her multiple abortions don't cause her to deliver pre-maturely.. I hope she's able to have a healthy baby sometime soon, i don't want to see her abortions cause her the same grief it caused my aunt who lost the ability to have children.

reply from: yoda

I'm sorry, I must have missed it when you presented your credentials to speak for all women..... right? So, apparently you aren't aware of some of the reasons Killer Tiller put on the medical records for some of his late term abortions, right? I mean like "To go to a concert", or "To be able to attend my high school prom". You didn't know about that, right?
Uh-huh. That's why so many of them believe that they're just "getting rid of a mass of cells", right?

reply from: yoda

And when did you present your credentials to speak for all "pro-choicers"?

reply from: faithman

And when did you present your credentials to speak for all "pro-choicers"?
Dispite what this pro-death scanc says, most elective abortions are for birth control. But what it really is, is cold blooded murder of an innocent child.

reply from: yoda

And when did you present your credentials to speak for all "pro-choicers"?
Dispite what this pro-death scanc says, most elective abortions are for birth control. But what it really is, is cold blooded murder of an innocent child.
Yeah, pretty much, as Planned Parenthood's own research arm has shown in many surveys of post abortive women. I guess they didn't know we had a spokesperson for all post abortive women here.

reply from: BossMomma

BossMomma, I have never met a woman who regretted giving birth. I googled that phrase and variants of it and come up with "i regret giving birth in a hospital" or women who say that in an abusive manner to children like "I regret giving birth to you". I'm not saying there aren't women like this out there but I bet there are far more who regret having an abortion than giving birth. It's not really a sound argument.
So you've googled the opinion of every woman in the world? Sorry but I speak to real women about real opinions and don't seek every answer on the internet.

reply from: Jameberlin

I have regretted getting pregnant, but that was a selfish sentiment on my part since i knew the suffering i was going through was entirely mine and my boyfriend's fault, and not the fault of the baby.
I've never regretted not having an abortion, nor have i regretted giving birth. One of my biggest regrets though, was thinking about having an abortion.

reply from: nancyu

There is only one reason to be pro life; and that reason is: An unborn child is a person.
A young, individual, human person. The point of being pro life is not that a woman might regret killing that person, or that she might suffer ill effects because of that abortion. That unborn person is HERE once conceived. And has just as much right to be HERE as any other individual human person.
Whether or not a woman has regrets over her abortion doesn't change the fact that she murdered an innocent person. What is the justification for that? I have heard only lame arguments from the pro choice side. I've never heard anything that justifies murder of an innocent person... And believe me I've heard some good ones.

reply from: faithman

So you've googled the opinion of every woman in the world? Sorry but I speak to real women about real opinions and don't seek every answer on the internet.
What? REal prodeath scancs like you with an ax to grind?

reply from: galen

Okay. I understand how the prison system works somewhat. I thought that was a justification for abortion earlier. The criminals you "correct". There were no "back alley abortions". Abortions pre-Roe were illegally performed in Drs. offices. Who waves signs? Do you believe that every pro-lifer is active? Do you believe they frequent the clinics? Not every pro-lifer is religious either. Godly conviction is personal, so many don't introduce it into a conversation about abortion, unless led to. Truth is you don't care about the woman "hell bent on terminating her pregnancy". Obviously to be pro-choice means her child doesn't matter either. So you advocate abortion because other women may not be convenienced or love their children as you do?
No, I advocate choice because other women's pregnancies are not my business. And by the way, what substance are you abusing that you would twist a perfectly logical post into an admission of indifference? I do care but what do you expect me to do? Would switching my beliefs to pro-life somehow save a baby from abortion? Are my opinions that powerful? Because yours darn sure aren't. Thus far all I've seen in you is an irrational, possibly adolescent troll hell bent on continuing a pointless arguement. If you are pro-life and not actively trying to save babies then you are just as effective as me, for all your outcry and snarling against me for my thoughts you haven't saved even one baby your damn self. So instead of condemning me on a message board at 2 am why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go save a baby.
___________________________________________________________
you know if all of us said that we can't make a diffrence then we won't.
First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.
Martin Niemoeller quote
there are masses of pro-fetal-lifers out there, adding myself to their ranks really wouldn't go here or there. You have yet to make a point.
______________________________________________________
i suppose you don't vote either?
if you are dumb enough not to get the point i feel sorry for you..

reply from: galen

Does every woman do this kind of research over this choice? Do they have anxiety about it? Do they agonize over it? Is it something that's constantly on their mind?
(I know you can't speak for 'every' woman but what are your impressions?)
This question wasn't directed at me but yes, some women feel regret over aborting a pregnancy because the aborted under the pressures of family, an unwilling father or, simple terror at becoming a mother. On the flip side though, some women regret giving birth. Some wish they had aborted due to equally overwhelming circumstances. That is why I feel that each women should be able to choose her path without outside pressures from others.
_______________________________________________________________
and what aboyt the child's path...don't they count?

reply from: galen

So you've googled the opinion of every woman in the world? Sorry but I speak to real women about real opinions and don't seek every answer on the internet.
____________________________________________________________
interesting... and these women... are they the ones you see in jail...?
how about those on the ouitside? and when you've spoken to every woman in the world... oh wait YOU CAN"T EITHER... so what is your point.

reply from: BossMomma

So you've googled the opinion of every woman in the world? Sorry but I speak to real women about real opinions and don't seek every answer on the internet.
____________________________________________________________
interesting... and these women... are they the ones you see in jail...?
how about those on the ouitside? and when you've spoken to every woman in the world... oh wait YOU CAN"T EITHER... so what is your point.
I work in a men's unit, the only women in the prison I work at are fellow officers.

reply from: galen

my bad... i must have mis read... i thought you said a women's prison...
what about the rest of the statement.??
or the other 2 previous.

reply from: galen

BTW do you not know how to use the quote button on the bottom right?

reply from: galen

is that why she has those particular initials?

reply from: BossMomma

I'll remember that while I'm keeping incarcerated rapists from raping your ignorant ass. Furthermore, offenders often have more rights than we do. If we injure an offender during a use of force he can sue us in free world courts. If we are injured it's chalked up as part of the job. But as I said before, pro-fetal-lifers often sympathize with criminals because they too believe in violating the rights of others.

reply from: BossMomma

Does every woman do this kind of research over this choice? Do they have anxiety about it? Do they agonize over it? Is it something that's constantly on their mind?
(I know you can't speak for 'every' woman but what are your impressions?)
This question wasn't directed at me but yes, some women feel regret over aborting a pregnancy because the aborted under the pressures of family, an unwilling father or, simple terror at becoming a mother. On the flip side though, some women regret giving birth. Some wish they had aborted due to equally overwhelming circumstances. That is why I feel that each women should be able to choose her path without outside pressures from others.
_______________________________________________________________
and what aboyt the child's path...don't they count?
I dunno, what dreams and ambitions do an unborn fetus have?

reply from: galen

i have never sympathised with my rapist or my abuser, and never tried to violate anyone... so why are you dodging my questions... scared?

reply from: galen

BM said....
I dunno, what dreams and ambitions do an unborn fetus have?
_____________________________________________________________
why not ask one and find out?

reply from: galen

LOL i was wondering when CP would bring that up?!?!?!
i wonder if BM understands just how thouroughly her goose has been cooked...
?

reply from: galen

well given her choice of name and intials... who could blame her...
where she blew smoke i mean...
* shrugs a shoulder*

reply from: BossMomma

I'll remember that while I'm keeping incarcerated rapists from raping your ignorant ass. Furthermore, offenders often have more rights than we do. If we injure an offender during a use of force he can sue us in free world courts. If we are injured it's chalked up as part of the job. But as I said before, pro-fetal-lifers often sympathize with criminals because they too believe in violating the rights of others.
First of all, I did 4 years in FSP, so you can't tell me a damned thing about what it's like on the inside. A prisoner who even touches a guard can be charged with assault (after the goon squad beats him down with billy clubs). You have to be very careful what you say to the guards, because, if they don't like you, you don't even have to touch them to cop an outside charge or be thrown in solitary (on top of the inevitable gang beat down.) In any matter of the word of a guard against the word of a prisoner, I don't have to tell you who prevails...
There were three basic types of guards in Florida State Prison. There were those for whom it was "just a job," and they did it because that was what was available in the hick towns where they grew up, the alternative being slinging slurpees at the local 7-11, there were those who enjoyed the sense of power they got from having almost "godlike" absolute control over others (these are the ones you have to watch), and there were guys who were decent human beings who really cared about people. From my experience, only the sadistic, controlling types would be likely to refer to themselves as "boss" anything, and call attention to what they do on a public internet forum.
Oh, and standing guard over "rapists" who have already been convicted doesn't necessarily "protect" anyone from being raped. They don't lock them up until afterward, right? You're always getting more in, right? At any rate, rest assured that I don't need your "protection." I didn't need protection from them when I was locked up with them. You can be certain there were men who did, but they didn't get it...The "bosses" generally thought that kind of thing was funny, and they seemed to feel the prisoners deserved any inhumane treatment they got.
You are aware that "boss" is meant as a slur, and that only the @$$hole guards are referred to thusly as a rule, right? They almost never called the o0nes they respected "boss."
LOL Figures, your a stinking ex-con. You obviously got locked up for screwing someone over so now your bitter and hell bent on continuing to violate the rights of others. Get off your noise inmate.

reply from: BossMomma

Well, I just asked the 15 weeker in my own womb...he or she had nothing to say.

reply from: galen

hmmmmm
still won't explain why she continuiosly dodges two intelligent people...
yep she obviously could not get herself any other type of job... so she became a security type...probably one with less than a stellar HS education...focused on some add in a JOBS paper, and uses her 'title' to lord herself over others.
BM i see you no better than those abusers you seem to relish putting the lock on... its all about controll for you isn't it?

reply from: galen

Well, I just asked the 15 weeker in my own womb...he or she had nothing to say.
__________________________________________
probably scared to death of you at this point.

reply from: BossMomma

Too funny! "Bosses" generally liked and respected me because I was doing time for nearly killing the guy who raped my 13 y/o sister. I turned 18 while incarcerated...
No respectable officer likes or respects an offender, the officers who make friendly with inmates typically get walked off for establishing a relationship. Furthermore you were as much a criminal as your victim, instead of leaving the matter to the justice system you stooped to a criminals level and got your dumb ass locked up. Bet you did your sister a hell of a lot of good behind bars.

reply from: BossMomma

For criminals yes, if not for that control offenders would continue many of the behaviors that got them locked up in the first place. Furthermore we officers also protect offenders from each other with the Safe Prisons Program. This program protects offenders from rape and extortion that led to a lot of offender deaths in years past. Now an offender can come to an officer with fears of sexual assault, exploitation, extortion and be placed in protective custody. Any other crap you'd like me to clear up for you?

reply from: BossMomma

Too funny! "Bosses" generally liked and respected me because I was doing time for nearly killing the guy who raped my 13 y/o sister. I turned 18 while incarcerated...
No respectable officer likes or respects an offender, the officers who make friendly with inmates typically get walked off for establishing a relationship. Furthermore you were as much a criminal as your victim, instead of leaving the matter to the justice system you stooped to a criminals level and got your dumb ass locked up. Bet you did your sister a hell of a lot of good behind bars.
Apparently we have different views of what, exactly, constitutes "respectability." In all honesty, I have seen very little of you that I am able to respect.
And, yes, I was a stupid, hotheaded kid, and I handled the situation in the wrong way. I paid for that, and I now see the error of my ways. It's mighty "big" of you to condemn me for it. I would be devastated if I actually gave a damn what people like you think of me.
Sorry but once you wear white your never right. Now, as I said before, get off your noise inmate.

reply from: carolemarie

Why are you being so hateful? Can't you debate without being mean to people?

reply from: BossMomma

Rather interesting that you lobby for pro-life yet you attempted to dole out death to someone else. Who made you god that you may decide who lives and who dies? Who gave you that power that you may justify punishing one unspeakable act of violence with another?

reply from: BossMomma

I'm not hateful, no one on this board is worth the effort it takes to hate, however I don't tolerate high levels of BS such as what concernedparent has been spouting.

reply from: BossMomma

PC (protective custody) is just solitary confinement. Many find "the cure" to be worse than the disease. Inmates are "protected" by exposing them to the worst punishment within the prison system, even though they are following the rules. I did a total of three months in solitary, and many was the day I wondered if it would not have been better had I been raped rather than fighting it out.
EDIT:
Clarification: I was never in PC, but was sentenced to solitary for fighting to protect myself on three occasions from rape and robbery. If you tell, you have no choice but to go to "PC" and spend the rest of your time in solitary, since you are then branded a "snitch."
In protective custody you are separated from the general population, thus you are protected. Such protection has it's down side but it certainly is preferable to getting shanked in a day room. And personally you could have avoided all that and helped your sister heal if you'd have kept your ass in the free world. Don't expect sympathy from me.

reply from: BossMomma

It is neither desired nor expected. I merely insist you be honest. Address my challenge as promised. I want to know exactly where you stand and why. What's more, I'm eager to destroy your arguments logically. If you don't think I can, what are you afraid of? Bite the bullet, big momma. Show us what you're made of...
You couldn't muster logic if you tried. If you could be logical you wouldn't be trying to stick your nose into the uteri of millions of other women by removing their reproductive rights. I answered your challenge and the challenges of the rest of the pro-fetal-propogandists here in a hundred different very logical ways only to have that logic twisted into some idiotic admission of a support for infantacide.
Women are free thinking individuals, they don't need the brow beating, the bible thumping or, the lies of a group of individuals who seem to think that the unborn child is all that matters. I put my money where my mouth is, either do the same or get off your noise. If the unborn is so critically important to you, if you lose sleep over the idea of their untimely demise then get out there and save a baby from abortion.
I saved three unborn children of three desperate teen mothers by offering my time free of charge so that they could make something of themselves. Where was the pro-life crowd for these girls? Too busy thrusting signs and spewing accusations outside of women's centers? Too busy ranting and raving on internet forums? Too busy to bother taking those girls into their hearts so that they wouldn't feel the desperate need to abort their "womb children". You people make me sick.

reply from: BossMomma

Rather interesting that you lobby for pro-life yet you attempted to dole out death to someone else. Who made you god that you may decide who lives and who dies? Who gave you that power that you may justify punishing one unspeakable act of violence with another?
I don't have that right. Nobody does. I acknowledge that what I did was wrong. The first guilt I felt came before I was ever sentenced, when I saw this man's mother cry. She was ashamed of what her boy had done, but was afraid for his life. I actually prayed that he would not die, even though I was not a religious person.
So, rather than look for hypocrisy on my part, where obviously none exists, let us examine the implications of your statement. Are you conceding that it is wrong to assume the power of life and death over another? That is obviously implied. Since you agree that I was wrong to attempt to take a life, and imply that it is hypocritical for me to object to doing so in the case of an unborn child, and since you obviously support abortion on demand, is your position not shown to be hypocritical based on the same logic by which you accuse me?
I support abortion on demand which is a LEGAL right bestowed upon women. Not the same as beating another person (fetii are not persons) to a pulp. There is no comparison.

reply from: BossMomma

I'm not hateful, no one on this board is worth the effort it takes to hate, however I don't tolerate high levels of BS such as what concernedparent has been spouting.
Put your money where your big mouth is. Debate me. Address my challenge. If you're scared, just say so. Don't keep blowing smoke up our @$$es.
I have addressed your so called challenge many times and I've put my money where my mouth is. I'm hardly scared of a simpering ex-con who cries out against a woman's legal right to bodily autonomy while at the same time is guilty of illegal violence. There is no room to blow smoke up your ass with your head wedged in there so tightly.

reply from: BossMomma

Then you should have nothing to fear, right?
Right. No fear here.

reply from: BossMomma

So, if rape, battery, or any of a number of other ways people harm each other were "legal," that would make them acceptable? Is slavery morally acceptable, big momma?
300 years ago slavery was very legal, however that law was changed. At one time there was no such thing a marital rape, now there is. At one time private justice such as lenching and beating suspected criminals without a fair and impartial trial was legal, now it's not. I support our modern laws which ban slavery, forced marital sex, punishment without trial. Slavery in my opinion is morally wrong and before you compare a nonviable fetus to a born breathing African American, look at the difference between the two.

reply from: BossMomma

Can you prove a human fetus is not a person? I don't think you can.
You show me a fetus with a social security card and you'll have me beat.

reply from: BossMomma

Then you should have nothing to fear, right?
Right. No fear here.
In your defense, you did finally answer one important question when I made a new topic just to ask it, but we have a ways to go before you can say you have addressed my challenge. I'm still waiting for you to clarify a part of your response that was rather vague. I was pretty sure I could goad you into indulging me by appealing to your ego.
There is no ego, it was a straight forward answer to a straight forward question. Now what did you think was vague? I'll be happy to clarify.

reply from: BossMomma

Ah, so you concede that legality doesn't have anything to do with whether something is morally acceptable. Very good. So don't blow that smoke ring about legality up my @$$ anymore, K?
Now, can we get on with business? Get back to our special thread, and I guarantee you you'll have ample opportunity to explain all the significant differences between born and unborn human beings that are central to the basis for your position on abortion after we clarify exactly what your position is.
Don't worry about the other questions I asked on this thread. I wish I hadn't asked. I don't want to distract you from the other thread, where we'll address the points that are relevant to your views.
@@ What ever, anywho, I answered your question on the other thread just as straight forward. Anything else you find "vague"?

reply from: BossMomma

Understand this, big momma, we're just getting started. We have a ways to go yet.
Then shyte or get off the pot.

reply from: galen

Rather interesting that you lobby for pro-life yet you attempted to dole out death to someone else. Who made you god that you may decide who lives and who dies? Who gave you that power that you may justify punishing one unspeakable act of violence with another?
____________________________________________________________
by advocating abortion YOu are acting as god yourself...

reply from: galen

For criminals yes, if not for that control offenders would continue many of the behaviors that got them locked up in the first place. Furthermore we officers also protect offenders from each other with the Safe Prisons Program. This program protects offenders from rape and extortion that led to a lot of offender deaths in years past. Now an offender can come to an officer with fears of sexual assault, exploitation, extortion and be placed in protective custody. Any other crap you'd like me to clear up for you?
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you my dear have the God complex you so profess to hate... why not answer some of the other questions...?

reply from: faithman

Too funny! "Bosses" generally liked and respected me because I was doing time for nearly killing the guy who raped my 13 y/o sister. I turned 18 while incarcerated...
No respectable officer likes or respects an offender, the officers who make friendly with inmates typically get walked off for establishing a relationship. Furthermore you were as much a criminal as your victim, instead of leaving the matter to the justice system you stooped to a criminals level and got your dumb ass locked up. Bet you did your sister a hell of a lot of good behind bars.
And you do womanhood no favors with your magot punk pro-death scum bag crap either. You took your job because you are a low life bully who gets off on pushing people around who can't fight back. That is very obvious as to your attitude towards womb children. Only a scanc would post such hateful drivel against helpless children in the womb. You are lower than the so called offenders you bully for a living. Crawl back under your rock turn key, we know what kind of scanc you are.

reply from: BossMomma

Then shyte or get off the pot.
Waiting on you, big momma. Trust me. I'm going somewhere with my line of questioning. This ain't my first rodeo.
This isn't my first rodeo either, give it your best and I'll give it mine.

reply from: faithman

Waiting on you, big momma. Trust me. I'm going somewhere with my line of questioning. This ain't my first rodeo.
This isn't my first rodeo either, give it your best and I'll give it mine.
OOOOOOOOOH the little scanc behind the big badge talks SSSSOOOO tuff. But only a miserable coward would advocate the slaughter of helplesss womb children.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

Waiting on you, big momma. Trust me. I'm going somewhere with my line of questioning. This ain't my first rodeo.
This isn't my first rodeo either, give it your best and I'll give it mine.
OOOOOOOOOH the little scanc behind the big badge talks SSSSOOOO tuff. But only a miserable coward would advocate the slaughter of helplesss womb children.
Shouldn't you be off harassing women who seek reproductive services, f-boy?

reply from: faithman

Waiting on you, big momma. Trust me. I'm going somewhere with my line of questioning. This ain't my first rodeo.
This isn't my first rodeo either, give it your best and I'll give it mine.
OOOOOOOOOH the little scanc behind the big badge talks SSSSOOOO tuff. But only a miserable coward would advocate the slaughter of helplesss womb children.
Shouldn't you be off harassing women who seek reproductive services, f-boy?
Shouldn't you be off guzzeling down another pint of baby blood baby killer?

reply from: carolemarie

Hey Lolieta:
How have you been feeling? How is the pregnancy going? I was wondering were you had been....

reply from: BossMomma

Oooh, another preggy lady, how many weeks?


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