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Cause Not A Stumbling Block

Are you preventing people from becoming pro-life?

by: LiberalChiRo

Today's sermon was extremely potent to me, as it spoke of so many things I have been feeling lately. For the past few weeks the pastor has been going over what it means to be Christian, using Matthew. This week was part 3 of 6. I attended church for the first time in about a decade last week at part 2.
Mattew 18.6-8:
"[6] If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in Me, it would be better for you if a great millstone wre fastened around your nec and you were drowned in the debpth of the dea. [7] Woe to the world because of stumbling blocks! Occsions for stumbling ar bound to come, but woe to the one by whom the stumbling block comes!
[8] If your hand or foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and to be thrown into the eternal fire."
The pastor explained that a Christian must be careful of how s/he acts around people who are "young in the faith": new converts, or even children themselves. Do not do things that would make these people turn away from Christianity!
He spoke of the physical and sexual abuses of the Catholic priests, he spoke of verbal abuses by ministers in churches, condemning those who sin over and over again, beating them over the head with dire messages, and turning them off to the word of Christ.
He spoke of people who commit violent acts against other peoples in the name of faith and how badly they represent the religion that newcomers say "if that's what Christianity is like, I want no part of it!"
He explained that those who are truly given to Jesus can understand the different between true Christianity, and people who do bad things in the name of Christ. But he said to be very careful in the eyes of newcomers, because to commit an act that turns them away from Christianity is a terrible thing that you will be punished for!!
<<<<<<<<<<<
This is applicable to pro-life as well, and I bring this message to you for a two-fold reason!!
ONE, for those of you who are Christian and fervently so: you create stumbling blocks for me! I see you and say "I want no part of this religion if everyone is like you, so hateful and angry and violent!" I turned away from Christianity for YEARS because of people like you, so take heed of what you've done, and consider how your behavior has turned people away.
TWO, for those of you who are fervently Pro-Life: You create stumbling blocks for me too!! I see you and say "I want to part of pro-life if everyone is like you, so hateful and angry and violent!" I turned away from pro-life for YEARS because of people like you, so take heed of what YOU have done, and consider how your behavior has turned people away.
People who just wanted to listen... People who WANTED to hear, but turned away because of angry, loud voices. People who WANTED to hear the message like me, but who kept encountering such anger and hate that they closed their ears and eyes and minds... and hearts.
People like Galen open our eyes. Her kindness finally gave me the space to as questions without fear and to understand. She has compassion.

reply from: Banned Member

For my part and I think for many, if you are going to tell a person the truth, you must tell them the whole truth. We cannot cling to the lies that we choose to cling to because they give some comfort to us as we let go of other lies. Christ does not want have of us. Abortion is a grave evil and not only some of the time. There are no exceptions to the commands of Christ.
Christ our Savior exists in the face of every unborn child; not simply the ones that seem more pleasing to us; not simpy those who situations surrounding their conceptions we approve of. Every child that is conceived is conceived in the image and likeness of God. Every child is a gift from God and belongs to God. We cannot give back the gifts that come from God because we may think them unworthy of ourselves.
It is for no one to blame others if the truth finds only rocky soil themselves and does not bear fruit. Sometimes the soil must be tilled and broken up before the truth can take root and remain. Sometimes it is choked out by the weeds, and sometimes it whithers in the sun. There are no weedy exceptions to the truth. If the truth is obscured it will only die in the shadows from lack of light.
Uncertainty only leads people astray. It is right for us to strengthen the brethren. It is not for us to coddle or rationalize their sins to in order to only make space for less unpleasant encounters. It is not love to confirm people in their sins, or to make shortcuts around the truth.
Luke 2:29-35
"Now, Master, you may let your servant go in peace, according to your word, for my eyes have seen your salvation, which you prepared in sight of all the peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and glory for your people Israel." The child's father and mother were amazed at what was said about him; and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted (and you yourself a sword will pierce) 11 so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Augustine, YOU ARE ONE OF THE CULPRITS. You think you're helping and you're not. You'd be a better example if you shut your mouth for a minute and listened.

reply from: yoda

Then you have no idea what it means to be prolife, and never did.
Being prolife is not about belonging to a club where you like and get along with the members. It is about feeling a powerful urge to stop the slaughter of innocent unborn babies, the best way we can.
Apparently, that hasn't occurred to you yet.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Then you have no idea what it means to be prolife, and never did.
Being prolife is not about belonging to a club where you like and get along with the members. It is about feeling a powerful urge to stop the slaughter of innocent unborn babies, the best way we can.
Apparently, that hasn't occurred to you yet.
How do you help stop abortion? By helping, one by one, every woman and man in america to CHOOSE life. You cannot do that by spreading hate for women. YOU are also part of the problem. You have read my message and are in the stage of denial - denying that you could ever possibly be at fault. But I show you the truth.

reply from: carolemarie

The bible tells us that it is the kindness of God that leads people to repent....Above all else God is the embodiment of LOVE, and He cares about every person He created.
We as followers of Jesus are suppose to be conformed to the image of God, to make ourselves like Him.
Jesus came and was a friend to the drunks and prostitutes, and he hung out with sinners. He loved them (sinners) so much that He gave His life for them! He told us to come and follow him......
Calling names, and being rude and harsh is not following Christ. He was kind to people...He (God) demonstrated his love to us in this, That while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
The greatest weapon we have as Christians is LOVE. As 1 Corinthias 13:4-8 says:
Love is patient. Love is Kind. Love does not envy. Love does not boast. Love is not proud. Love is not rude. Love is not self-serving. Love is not easily angered.
Love keeps no records of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil. Love rejoices with the truth. Love always protects. Love always trusts. Love always hopes.
Love persevers. LOVE never fails.
1 Cor. 13:1-3
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knoweledge and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
I agree with LiberalChiRo's post. Words have the power to drive people FROM God.

reply from: yoda

There are as many different ways as there are prolifers. And none of us have a divine right to say which way is best.
If that is YOUR way, fine. When do you think you will start?
You are simply changing the subject.
You previously claimed that prolifers who were "like me" had turned you away from being prolife.
Now you are claiming that ONLY your way will save babies, and that is why we prolifers must all follow your way.
Why is it necessary to change the subject?

reply from: yoda

She wasn't talking about that. She was claiming that "people like me" are preventing others from becoming prolife.
Are you now claiming that "people like me" are preventing people from becoming Christian too?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

She wasn't talking about that. She was claiming that "people like me" are preventing others from becoming prolife.
Are you now claiming that "people like me" are preventing people from becoming Christian too?
Actually, I said both. Further proving you didn't comprehend it if you even read it at all.

reply from: carolemarie

Same principle.
The way we talk to people and about them can sway them to not want to hear or believe anything that you say.

reply from: yoda

Oh, pardon me..... somehow I just couldn't imagine you giving a rat's ass whether people become Christian or not.....

reply from: yoda

So you think that the prolife movement is a social club too?
You think that we invite members in to socialize with those whom we like?
You don't think that being prolife depends on how you feel about the elective slaughter of innocent babies?
Just a social club to you, right?

reply from: carolemarie

Why not, she is a Christian herself.

reply from: yoda

And a fine one at that....... right?

reply from: carolemarie

So you think that the prolife movement is a social club too?
You think that we invite members in to socialize with those whom we like?
You don't think that being prolife depends on how you feel about the elective slaughter of innocent babies?
Just a social club to you, right?
Nobody said that being prolife was a social club.
However, you constantly tell people what is prolife and what isn't. You tell us some are not really prolife. What you accuse her of, you do.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

People on this forum have a very hard time with this... Showing love or compassion for the sinners, for the women who abort or who consider it. These women need understanding and love, not hate spread under the veil of "harsh truth" or "hard love". It's just an excuse to vent frustration and is in no way helpful. I really wish the people on this forum could have heard the sermon. I'd like to see them tell the pastor "Oh, I say hateful things because I don't hide the truth! I don't care if it turns away people because they obviously aren't worthy anyway!" That's not God's message. We are all equal in his eyes; no one of us is "more holy" than another if we love God. All who love God are equal in his eyes. In heaven, I would sit as high as Augustine. (If he even makes it!)
There are a lot of impatient, rude, self-serving and easily angered people on this board...
Yet some people on here can only harp over and over of the abortions some of the members have had...
Hail Augustine!!
People on here certainly have no lack of faith, but a serious depravity of love. They think they can love only the fetus and judge the woman, but that's not how it works.
Indeed they do.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Oh, pardon me..... somehow I just couldn't imagine you giving a rat's ass whether people become Christian or not.....
Love is not rude.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

He's in denial... Rightious denial.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

So you think that the prolife movement is a social club too?
You think that we invite members in to socialize with those whom we like?
You don't think that being prolife depends on how you feel about the elective slaughter of innocent babies?
Just a social club to you, right?
It's not about being a "social circle". Neither is Christianity. You obviously do not understand Christianity or pro-life.

reply from: carolemarie

If you are referring to her Christianity, each of us stands or falls to our Master Jesus...not each other. Where you are on the journey today will change as you grow and walk with the Lord. The Lord reveals truth to you and as you become more transformed into his likeness, he reveals more....

reply from: Jameberlin

*sigh*
Harsh words and hate mongering cause people to do things out of spite.
We are called to love the sinner, hate the sin. WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT!?!?!
Hypocrisies abound....
Chiro, i agree with you, and carolemaire, i think the best way to open people's eyes to Christ is with firm love and understanding, not bullying or fear mongering. Likewise, this is the best way to open peoples hearts to the babies in the womb, society teaches us to fear children, we must re-educate them in the beauty and love of children... This is not something that can be beaten into someone, but something that must be shown though example.
If we hate sinners, how likely is it that they will learn to love at all?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Oh, but didn't you know....
ThereisnotimeforlovewehavetosavetheBAAAAYBIEEES!!!!
Idon'thavetobepolitetothosefilthysluttywomenbecausetheyjustwanttomurdertheirBAAAAYBIESSS!
Ifsomeoneisn'tpro-lifethewayIampro-lifethentheyarenotpro-lifebecausetheydon'twanttosayvetheBAAAAYBIESrightnow!!
Toreallybepro-lifeyouhavetowanttosavetheBAAAYBIEEESSrightnowandthrowallthesluttymothersinjail!!
Seriously, guys. That's what you sound like. Hyper chipmunks that say the same hateful things over and over and over and over... I eventually put you on mute mentally as I'm sure everyone else does. Because it's really, really irritating. It achieves absolutely nothing except making me NOT want to be pro-life... and that's hurting your cause, you're just too blind, arrogant, pig-headed, prideful and full of yourselves to realise it.

reply from: Banned Member

"He who sows good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world, the good seed the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Most "Christians" don't notice that it is the ones who do evil and those that cause others to break the Law (see underlined italics above) who are burnt up as useless waste.
Those who practice sin need to be told that the consequences of their behavior includes death (eternal death).
God is not mocked; if a man plants corn, he'll harvest corn (not soybeans or wheat). If a man practices sin he will harvest death. Only obedience will lead to eternal life. It is wonderful that God has made it possible for past transgressions to be forgiven and that he allows us to bury the old man. Jesus paid the penalty for past transgressions. (Look up 'past trangressions' in Strong's Concordance.) But if the old man continues to be the lifestyle of the future, that soul shall die. As it is written, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Psalm 1:1-2 "Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the instruction of the Lord, and on his law he mediates day and night."
He who practices righteousness reaps a sure reward.
Remember, Jesus told sinners to their faces that they were vipers, sons of Satan and murderers; he did not hold back on the truth. Naturally, being murderers, they picked up stones to stone him. Jesus said, "The world hates me because I keep telling it that it's ways are bad." Jesus was hated for confronting people with their lawlessness. John the Baptist was beheaded for confronting a king about his unlawful behavior.

reply from: carolemarie

Most "Christians" don't notice that it is the ones who do evil and those that cause others to break the Law (see underlined italics above) who are burnt up as useless waste.
Those who practice sin need to be told that the consequences of their behavior includes death (eternal death).
God is not mocked; if a man plants corn, he'll harvest corn (not soybeans or wheat). If a man practices sin he will harvest death. Only obedience will lead to eternal life. It is wonderful that God has made it possible for past transgressions to be forgiven and that he allows us to bury the old man. Jesus paid the penalty for past transgressions. (Look up 'past trangressions' in Strong's Concordance.) But if the old man continues to be the lifestyle of the future, that soul shall die. As it is written, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Psalm 1:1-2 "Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the instruction of the Lord, and on his law he mediates day and night."
He who practices righteousness reaps a sure reward.
Remember, Jesus told sinners to their faces that they were vipers, sons of Satan and murderers; he did not hold back on the truth. Naturally, being murderers, they picked up stones to stone him. Jesus said, "The world hates me because I keep telling it that it's ways are bad." Jesus was hated for confronting people with their lawlessness. John the Baptist was beheaded for confronting a king about his unlawful behavior.
Jesus told the religious leaders of his day, (the scribes and pharisees) that they were vipers and murderers and sons of satan.
He didn't tell the lost sheep that. He forgave unrepentant sinners, (the woman caught in adultry). He was called a friend of sinners and publicans and was considered scandelous in his behavior. He ate with sinners and let a sinful woman touch him in an intimate way, by wiping his feet with her hair (to unbind your hair in front of a man was a scandelous thing)
Jesus healed the sick and told the people of the God of compassion who loved them.
He told the woman at the well her secrets, but he did it in private, as to not shame her.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I hear the chitter-chatter of chipmunks...
Good post, Carol.

reply from: yoda

You and Lib have implied that it is. You have implied that we must behave in such a way that proaborts will "like us" enough to join us. That's a club, not a cause.
Are you too dense to understand what a dictionary is for? Or do you, as a lot of proaborts do, claim superior knowledge to all dictionaries?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

How did we imply this? I'm simply repeating what my pastor said because I felt it was relevant. If you don't want more people to fight for the pro-life cause, then why do you have a forum? Why are you putting up a public face on the web? Just so people who are already "in" your elite club can post? Then why is the forum public? If you don't want people becoming pro-life then take down this forum; because that's what it is going to do. Period.

reply from: carolemarie

Amazingly, if you want to reach people with the truth, how you present it matters.

reply from: lukesmom

Soooo, in other words, if we don't think like you and don't fall down in amazement at every comment you make, we hate you and create a stumbling block for you. Sorry but you aren't really as important as you think you are and that is not said with hate or distain. We aren't here for YOU but instead for the babies. Get rid of the arragence (sp), listen, ask questions respectfully and then you mayl be taken seriously.

reply from: carolemarie

To be fair, she posted, considered comments and changed her position. Then she was attacked for not instantly believing everything like Faithman or Yoda does.
It takes sometime to work things out, and the meanness of some of the prolifers is a very amazing thing to see. Apparently they would rather she stay prochoice....

reply from: lukesmom

Fine, but why lump us all together? Maybe I'm a lot peeved about the assumptions she has made regarding me and accusing me of hate posts. Shrug, my own stumbling block? Probably. If she is going to be prolife, she will need to toughen up a bit especially if she can't handle some of the lovelies here, she'll NEVER make it as a prolifer on the "nice" choice sites.

reply from: Faramir

God help us if we believed just like them. Who wants to live in a world where women are scancs and we can't buy cheap junk at Wal-Mart?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Not at all. I simply refuse to sit with the abuse of being called pro-abort etc etc etc. They don't have to agree with me, I just want then to stop insulting me.
I'm not thinking of just myself here, I'm thinking back on how I and other pro-choicers viewed the pro-life movement. It's not positive. You are viewed as women-hating religious freaks in the worst way. This is not a positive description, please for the love of god try to take what I'm saying seriously. I feel like... no one listens to me when I say to them these things. Either you've heard it all before and don't believe it, or you don't believe it because I used to be pro-choice. I just don't understand.
When I was a pro-choicer, I tried to guide people to pro-choice with logic and kindness, to prove we weren't all psychotic baby-killers. And they're not. I knew that kindness was the way to change their hearts. I still know it. I was changed by kindness, and I will continue to use it as my tool, despite the actions of others.
Another thing my pastor mentioned was that those who are firm in their faith can tell the difference between those who are not true representations of the faith and people who are. New people can't tell the difference because they don't have the experience to tell what the members of the faith should be like. They see the "bad" examples and think everyone is like them.
The "newbies" need your help. They need your open hands, your kind and patient words. Think about anything new you've ever done; isn't it less scary when the person helping you is kind?
This is a war. To one side, it is a war for women's rights. For the other, it is a war for the unborn's rights. There are people from both sides who are kind and caring... but there are those who are not. I don't like mean pro-choicers and I don't like mean pro-lifers. I don't understand why pro-lifers are mean to pro-choicers and vice versa. Both of these groups need to come together.
There are a lot of people out there who have not chosen a side.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I never said or mean "every single person on this forum". I specifically would never mean you, and I can't believe you assumed such. You know exactly who I am talking about. Augustine, Yodavater, there's a couple of others on here.
So what, are you telling me to go back to pro-choice because pro-life is full of buttmuches? Dont you agree that it's NOT good to be mean about this? I can't believe you'd support their hateful speech.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, Faithman, he's another one of the Fetus-Nazis on here.

reply from: lukesmom

I never said or mean "every single person on this forum". I specifically would never mean you, and I can't believe you assumed such. You know exactly who I am talking about. Augustine, Yodavater, there's a couple of others on here.
So what, are you telling me to go back to pro-choice because pro-life is full of buttmuches? Dont you agree that it's NOT good to be mean about this? I can't believe you'd support their hateful speech.
Hard to assume anything else when the thread is directed at the board in general but whatever. It is very easy to come here and only see the negative in certain posters. I, myself do a lot of passing over certain posts because I don't like the poster's approach. That being said, there is no one single approach to changing minds. Every single one of us work in a different way and every single one of us has changed at least one mind, thus saving a child. Different readers connect to different posters. You connected with Mary (Galen) and that is wonderful, another poster recently connected with fman, believe it or not. To ask someone to change the approach that works for them because you don't like what they write or who they seem is unreasonable. So, you take the positive and ignore the negative and develop your own approach that works for you and in doing this you let others do their work their way.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I pass over the posts too, but I fear for someone else who is new and doesn't pass over the posts... what must they think?

reply from: MotherForLife

I agree with you ChiRo. I thought it was the choicers that were supposed to be the haters but there are some people here that give pro-life a bad name. It seems unless you want all pro-choicers killed then your position as a pro-lifer is not accepted here.

reply from: yoda

Oh come on, tell me how insane I am, call me names, you know, your usual stuff...

reply from: Faramir

Oh come on, tell me how insane I am, call me names, you know, your usual stuff...
He taunts. He bullies. He frustrates by taking posts out of context and twisting their meanings. He calls just about anyone who dares to disagree with him a "pro abort."
And then when someone responds out of frustration he is suddenly a "victim" of name calling, etc.

reply from: yoda

Here's the thing...... we don't need to do anything TO others at all. People become prolife on their own, believe it or not. When they study the issue, when they search their conscience, they will come to the realization that killing babies is wrong. Even a tiny child knows that. All we have to do is UNLEARN all the crappy stuff that passes for knowledge theses days...... like "unborn humans are just blobs of tissue", and "we have a constitutional right to kill our babies"....
Having sympathy and compassion for unborn babies being killed in the womb does not depend on any of us. It depends only on the honesty and integrity of the person who is considering the situation. We who have become convicted of the rightness of the prolife cause do come together to pool our efforts, but that must always be secondary to, and follow conviction.
Our "likability" has nothing to do with it. We are not ambassadors for the babies. We are trying to speak for them, with mixed success, but we do not represent them. Our main weapon is to bring the plight of the babies to the attention of a disinterested, apathetic public. We do the babies no good by being friendly to the forces that endorse their destruction.
In order to bring the plight of the babies out in the open, our best ally is truth. Not syrupy sweet compliments to the proaborts, but truth about what abortion is doing to the babies at a horrific rate.
We need to convince the "great middle" that our cause is just, and that they proaborts have a wicked, immoral cause. We do not need to convert any proaborts to our cause, only the "great middle".

reply from: yoda

You really hate to read "babies", don't you?

reply from: yoda

Yes, it does. And PLAIN and SIMPLE is always the best way.

reply from: yoda

Oh but wait..... she hates to read the word "babies".... so you'll make her angry and chase her back to the proabort side.......

reply from: yoda

That's not "being fair", that's just taking a cheap shot and FMan and me.

reply from: yoda

Okay...... I take back all the times I called you a "nutter", or a "nutjob", or ...... or.... not wait, those are the names you called me and other prolfers here.... my mistake.

reply from: yoda

Oh goodness..... did I apologize for calling you a buttmuch? No wait, you just called us that.....

reply from: yoda

Wow, what a "Christian" attitude.......

reply from: yoda

Wow..... what a revelation! No wait, you might make her angry, and call us names like "buttmuches"...... oh yeah, she already did that......

reply from: yoda

All you are responsible for is YOU, Fartnomore. You have no responsibility for any other prolifer, proabort, or whatever....... just YOU.
And attacking others is not a good way to show "responsibility".

reply from: jujujellybean

Yes, it does. And PLAIN and SIMPLE is always the best way.
Plain and Simple does NOT have to involve calling that person a bad name without knowing them. The facts are plain and simple, but even the way you present THOSE facts can make a difference.

reply from: yoda

True, indeed. They should be presented without bias or personal slant. And without any "kissing up".

reply from: jujujellybean

True, indeed. They should be presented without bias or personal slant. And without any "kissing up".
Kissing up is what you guys consider being nice and pleasent to someone, so I'll take that as a compliment.

reply from: yoda

You don't know what "kissing up" means?
kiss up Slang
To behave obsequiously; fawn.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/kissing+up

Does that help you, or do you need a definition for "obsequiously"?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Wow, what a "Christian" attitude.......
I do have the balls to defend myself after experiencing repeated attacks. I'm not Jesus.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Please quote me saying that. Otherwise, stop lying.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

You really hate to read "babies", don't you?
Quote me saying "I hate the word babies".

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Oh come on, tell me how insane I am, call me names, you know, your usual stuff...
He taunts. He bullies. He frustrates by taking posts out of context and twisting their meanings. He calls just about anyone who dares to disagree with him a "pro abort."
And then when someone responds out of frustration he is suddenly a "victim" of name calling, etc.
Thank you

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I agree with you ChiRo. I thought it was the choicers that were supposed to be the haters but there are some people here that give pro-life a bad name. It seems unless you want all pro-choicers killed then your position as a pro-lifer is not accepted here.
It does seem that extreme doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people on here would go further than their claims: Arrest the mother who aborted, the doctor who did it, the nurses who helped, the receptionist who made the appointment, the counselor who didn't stop her, anyone else who works at the clinic for being "accomplices", arrest the women who are signed up for abortions on the basis of attempted murder, anyone who drives them to the clinic including friends/family, taxi, train and buss drivers... Oh, and arrest any person the mother knows if they don't actively stop the woman from aborting by throwing themselves in front of the woman or tying her to a bed until the police come to arrest her for attempted murder.
I think I got everyone. Anyone I forgot?

reply from: nancyu

I agree with you ChiRo. I thought it was the choicers that were supposed to be the haters but there are some people here that give pro-life a bad name. It seems unless you want all pro-choicers killed then your position as a pro-lifer is not accepted here.
It does seem that extreme doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people on here would go further than their claims: Arrest the mother who aborted, the doctor who did it, the nurses who helped, the receptionist who made the appointment, the counselor who didn't stop her, anyone else who works at the clinic for being "accomplices", arrest the women who are signed up for abortions on the basis of attempted murder, anyone who drives them to the clinic including friends/family, taxi, train and buss drivers... Oh, and arrest any person the mother knows if they don't actively stop the woman from aborting by throwing themselves in front of the woman or tying her to a bed until the police come to arrest her for attempted murder.
I think I got everyone. Anyone I forgot?
Yes, the ones who keep saying it is legal to murder unborn children.

reply from: Faramir

I think it would be much more fair if those who seek punishment for the woman would look at it this way, but they seem to be totally focused on putting her butt in jail or on the electric chair.

reply from: yoda

How about this: suppose we make it the law that no woman can be punished for killing her born kids? Wouldn't that be the "loving thing" to do?
After all, won't we win serial killing Moms over better by kindness than by punishment?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I think it would be much more fair if those who seek punishment for the woman would look at it this way, but they seem to be totally focused on putting her butt in jail or on the electric chair.
Yeah, I know... I personally of course don't think the woman should go to jail but that's because I'm pro-life, not anti-woman.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I agree with you ChiRo. I thought it was the choicers that were supposed to be the haters but there are some people here that give pro-life a bad name. It seems unless you want all pro-choicers killed then your position as a pro-lifer is not accepted here.
It does seem that extreme doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people on here would go further than their claims: Arrest the mother who aborted, the doctor who did it, the nurses who helped, the receptionist who made the appointment, the counselor who didn't stop her, anyone else who works at the clinic for being "accomplices", arrest the women who are signed up for abortions on the basis of attempted murder, anyone who drives them to the clinic including friends/family, taxi, train and buss drivers... Oh, and arrest any person the mother knows if they don't actively stop the woman from aborting by throwing themselves in front of the woman or tying her to a bed until the police come to arrest her for attempted murder.
I think I got everyone. Anyone I forgot?
Yes, the ones who keep saying it is legal to murder unborn children.
You're right, I forgot ALL Pro-Choicers!! I was going to add that too... So yes, add in "anyone who supports abortion OR believes it is legal".
By now of course 99% of America's population will be in jail. Because I really doubt there are too many people who are so confused about Roe v Wade that they think abortion is still illegal.

reply from: carolemarie

I believe that if we make performing abortions against the law, we could concentrate on jailing Dr. who insist on performing abortions after they are against the law. They are not the ones who are under the stress of a problem pregnancy, but they are the ones who profit off those who are.

reply from: yoda

And for those who "perform" abortions on themselves, and are discovered to have done so illegally?
Do we slap their wrists, or just hold their hands and say sweet things to them?

reply from: faithman

....and you have a huge conflict of interest having killed three yourself. SSSSSOOOOO simply because a woman is stressed about a bad husband, that would justify her hireing a hit man to kill him? Simply because a mom is stressed about born children "complicating" her life, she should get a free walk if she hired someone to kill them? Simply because a whore doesn't want children to get in the way of their next trick, we are to excuse her murderous crime and only go after the assasin the scanc hired? I could care less what excuse one uses to murder. They are still a murderer, and need to be brought to justice. Now what was the excuse you used to kill three?

reply from: carolemarie

....and you have a huge conflict of interest having killed three yourself. SSSSSOOOOO simply because a woman is stressed about a bad husband, that would justify her hireing a hit man to kill him? Simply because a mom is stressed about born children "complicating" her life, she should get a free walk if she hired someone to kill them? Simply because a whore doesn't want children to get in the way of their next trick, we are to excuse her murderous crime and only go after the assasin the scanc hired? I could care less what excuse one uses to murder. They are still a murderer, and need to be brought to justice. Now what was the excuse you used to kill three?
I have no conflict of interest in advocating for jailing abortion providers. That is the position of the vast majority of prolife people, such as NRL, Priest for LIfe, Life Dynamics, to name a few. Do you call all of them pro-choice? Do you call Mark Crutcher pro-choice?
If abortion isn't legal, the numbers will plummet. Punish those who perform them and they will plummet further.
I am prolife, and want unborn children to live. That is what I work for.

reply from: carolemarie

CP said: You don't have to say "supports abortion or thinks it's legal." Everybody who says it's legal is a "pro-abort," right?
If all pro-aborts were jailed, how would the world continue to function? There are only like 6 real prolifers....
__________________________________________
LOL!

reply from: nancyu

I agree with you ChiRo. I thought it was the choicers that were supposed to be the haters but there are some people here that give pro-life a bad name. It seems unless you want all pro-choicers killed then your position as a pro-lifer is not accepted here.
It does seem that extreme doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people on here would go further than their claims: Arrest the mother who aborted, the doctor who did it, the nurses who helped, the receptionist who made the appointment, the counselor who didn't stop her, anyone else who works at the clinic for being "accomplices", arrest the women who are signed up for abortions on the basis of attempted murder, anyone who drives them to the clinic including friends/family, taxi, train and buss drivers... Oh, and arrest any person the mother knows if they don't actively stop the woman from aborting by throwing themselves in front of the woman or tying her to a bed until the police come to arrest her for attempted murder.
I think I got everyone. Anyone I forgot?
Yes, the ones who keep saying it is legal to murder unborn children.
You're right, I forgot ALL Pro-Choicers!! I was going to add that too... So yes, add in "anyone who supports abortion OR believes it is legal".
By now of course 99% of America's population will be in jail. Because I really doubt there are too many people who are so confused about Roe v Wade that they think abortion is still illegal.
Hooray! You get it! Yay! Yes that is correct. Even if 99% of America's population think it is okay to murder unborn children -- Those 99%(?) are WRONG.
It is wrong, it is immoral, it is illegal to deprive persons of life without due process. And that is EXACTLY what abortion does.
I think a day in jail for all of those 299,999, 900 people would send the proper message. Yes you got it.
Thank you for finally seeing things from my point of view.

reply from: Faramir

Are you enjoying the view LCR?
If you're seeing things from her point of view, you must be seeing a lot of big guys wearing white coats. I would advise you to not make them angry.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Thank you, very well put. I think pro-life forgets the duress these women are under.

reply from: 4given

When abortion is illegal, the mother should be charged. Just as every case presented- if one breaks the law, there is a consequence. Typically others are going to exaggerate the sentence imposed to divert attention away from the act itself, which is heinous. Who hires a hit man to kill another and walks away with less than an insanity ruling? I understand the various scenarios where the mother may view her offspring as being better off dead. Each case, each person, is different, right? Typically abortion is the selfish and easy way out.
And sure, my heroin addicted brother would have loved the kindness approach. He would have hugged the person responsible, so tightly that his wallet fell out. (then he would have taken it to buy more drugs and maybe call someone up to "hit" someone else for a bigger stash.)
Point distracted- the idea of such comments is not to promote the saving of innocent lives, but to tally up on an agenda or conflict that is personal.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Therapy is not all hugs and kisses; harsh truths are revealed and people often become angry and emotional. Therapy is extremely tough on the patient, especially over an issue as complicated as an abortion. This woman will have to come face-to-face with the fact she has killed another human being, and that's not going to be easy, pleasant, or anything sweet. Jailing her would be a far more pleasant experience for her, but nothing would be solved and her mental state would not be healed.

reply from: 4given

Are you enjoying the view LCR?
If you're seeing things from her point of view, you must be seeing a lot of big guys wearing white coats. I would advise you to not make them angry.
Faramir, you are being disrespectful and rude. I know you believe that you are humorous, but to me, this is just another excuse to put down a pro-lifer you don't agree with.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

....and you have a huge conflict of interest having killed three yourself. SSSSSOOOOO simply because a woman is stressed about a bad husband, that would justify her hireing a hit man to kill him?
Yes, it could, depending on how bad the husband is. I can completely sympathize with women who try to kill abusive husbands.
A free walk? No, she clearly needs therapy.
Most women who abort are married, monogamous and already have children. Far from "whores", but that's a classic anti-woman attack.
Then let me tell you a story. I had a friend who was fast asleep in his bed with his girlfriend. Another housemate was awake upstairs. Suddenly, glass showers down on my friend and his girlfriend as someone smashes in their window. My friend dives out of bed and into the livingroom, to be confronted out the front door by a mob of drunken frat boys who think they are attacking a rival frat house. My friend tries to verbally chase them off but they come at him and try to invade the house. He grabs the closest thing he can find, a fantasy display weapon (a foot long knife). As two of the men close in he defends himself and stabs them. The mob scatters, and in the end, one of the men dies in the hospital. The other survives.
My friend murdered someone. Was he justified? All of our friends say yes. I say yes. The COURT says yes. He is free, as he should be. If two other men had died he still would have been justified.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Oh but I do! Because by not believing it's illegal, you're supporting it or somehow saying it's ok!
And yeah, only 6 "real" prolifers.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

....and you have a huge conflict of interest having killed three yourself. SSSSSOOOOO simply because a woman is stressed about a bad husband, that would justify her hireing a hit man to kill him? Simply because a mom is stressed about born children "complicating" her life, she should get a free walk if she hired someone to kill them? Simply because a whore doesn't want children to get in the way of their next trick, we are to excuse her murderous crime and only go after the assasin the scanc hired? I could care less what excuse one uses to murder. They are still a murderer, and need to be brought to justice. Now what was the excuse you used to kill three?
I have no conflict of interest in advocating for jailing abortion providers. That is the position of the vast majority of prolife people, such as NRL, Priest for LIfe, Life Dynamics, to name a few. Do you call all of them pro-choice? Do you call Mark Crutcher pro-choice?
If abortion isn't legal, the numbers will plummet. Punish those who perform them and they will plummet further.
I am prolife, and want unborn children to live. That is what I work for.
Oh pooh, you know you can't possibly change your MIND.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Are you enjoying the view LCR?
If you're seeing things from her point of view, you must be seeing a lot of big guys wearing white coats. I would advise you to not make them angry.
Whoops, I said abortion was legal. I think they're going to tie me down now...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Are you enjoying the view LCR?
If you're seeing things from her point of view, you must be seeing a lot of big guys wearing white coats. I would advise you to not make them angry.
Faramir, you are being disrespectful and rude. I know you believe that you are humorous, but to me, this is just another excuse to put down a pro-lifer you don't agree with.
And the attitude I'm getting from the "6 real prolifers"? Is that excusable?

reply from: Faramir

Are you enjoying the view LCR?
If you're seeing things from her point of view, you must be seeing a lot of big guys wearing white coats. I would advise you to not make them angry.
Faramir, you are being disrespectful and rude. I know you believe that you are humorous, but to me, this is just another excuse to put down a pro-lifer you don't agree with.
I believe I am being humorous, but I agree I am being disrespectful and rude. How can I agree with someone who says abortion is illegal? That's not expressing a prolife postion. It's just plain nutty.
But regarding your comments--unfortunately, this is an unmoderated forum for the most part, and I am weary of the antics of "The Three Stooges," who would be funny if they were not so nasty most of the time. A man can only take so much.
So I need some way to vent my frustrations.
Have you noticed that nancyu, faithman, and yodavater are often rude and disrespectful, and do you reprimand them as well?
I would go so far as to say that "rude and disrepectful" are not at all sufficient to describe these three. If that's ALL they were, I think I could tolerate them.
But they use babies as an excuse to bully others, and that's disgusting. Supporting such a noble cause as the defense of the unborn does not give anyone the right to poop all over anyone they think deserves it.
They use the abortion issue as a club to beat others, and do a disservice to the noble cause of defending life in the womb.
At least they do so here in this forum. I don't know what they are in real life. Maybe they are somewhat normal. But I can only judge by what I see here, and it's not very pretty, and don't think I'm the only prolifer who sees this.

reply from: 4given

What I have noticed is your willingness to do so. It seems to happen quite often.

reply from: Faramir

What I have noticed is your willingness to do so. It seems to happen quite often.
I would rather just get along with everyone.
But from the first day I came to this forum, the self-apponted leader badgered me and insinuated I was a "pro-abort," and he does that to just about any new person here who has the nerve to have a different opinion than he does.
And he will whine about others picking on him, but that's only in reaction to his continual goading, as he regurlarly does with threads directed at other members, besides the usual digs and taunts that are in just about every post.
But that's "for the babies," so it's OK...
And Curly and Larry are no better.
The three of them are habitually mean and abusive, and if they say it's "for the babies" they are lying through their teeth.
So...that's why I say stuff sometimes, and if you would isolate my posts and take them out of context, some would seem to be rude, but they are REactive and not PROactive.
But I think it's time for the decent prolifers of this board to be PROactive and stop reacting the the Three Stooges and their sympathizers.
We have good and postive things to say about the prolife movement, and can present the cause in a way that shows the logic and compassion behind it. We shouldn't let those who sympathize with the violent, or who thirst for revenge, to be the prolife poster boys and girls.

reply from: faithman

What I have noticed is your willingness to do so. It seems to happen quite often.
I would rather just get along with everyone.
But from the first day I came to this forum, the self-apponted leader badgered me and insinuated I was a "pro-abort," and he does that to just about any new person here who has the nerve to have a different opinion than he does.
And he will whine about others picking on him, but that's only in reaction to his continual goading, as he regurlarly does with threads directed at other members, besides the usual digs and taunts that are in just about every post.
But that's "for the babies," so it's OK...
And Curly and Larry are no better.
The three of them are habitually mean and abusive, and if they say it's "for the babies" they are lying through their teeth.
So...that's why I say stuff sometimes, and if you would isolate my posts and take them out of context, some would seem to be rude, but they are REactive and not PROactive.
But I think it's time for the decent prolifers of this board to be PROactive and stop reacting the the Three Stooges and their sympathizers.
We have good and postive things to say about the prolife movement, and can present the cause in a way that shows the logic and compassion behind it. We shouldn't let those who sympathize with the violent, or who thirst for revenge, to be the prolife poster boys and girls.
What we need to stop is your lying scum bag phony mouth. No one has advocated revenge, nor "thisted" for it. All you do is slanser real pro-life effort and protect bazby killing phonies. You also waist materials like http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg by not useing them when they were freely given to you. You can not show one post where anyone has called for revenge.


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