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miscarriage burial ministry

caskets for little babies

by: Hosea

I had three miscarriages at 10, 6, and 17 weeks and was never able to find a burial container for any of my babies even the one who died at 17 weeks who was 8 inches long. After having my miscarriages, women all over came to me and talked to me about their miscarriages and stillbirths and what they went through. It is like a secret society that only talks to others who can understand. Many women I spoke with cried and said how lucky I was to be able to bury my children. I feel blessed to have been able to bury my three miscarried children. I also feel bad that they were not buried in a proper burial vessel. I could not find anything. After repeated calls from God I have started a burial ministry selling very affordable caskets for babies who have died in the first or second trimester. I call my ministry Heaven's Gain. We have a website www.heavensgain.com I have helped about twenty families with loss of a child in the first or second trimester. Many did not buy a casket; it is about the ministry not about selling caskets. I have helped some through the process of how to catch the baby. I have helped some people with emotional support only. I have provided others with caskets. All those families that I have helped have been so grateful that it is embarrassing to me. This is God working, I am just a vessel.....and a vessel that took two years to say yes to starting this ministry. God will bless it as He pleases; I trust in Him.

reply from: 4given

How unfortunate! So you sell caskets? What are they made of? What is affordable? I will check out your website. Odd.

reply from: Hosea

Yes, I sell little caskets made of wood or plastic. This is something I would have never thought I would be doing in a million years. It remionds me of the saying, " How do you make God laigh....tell Him your plans. This was never in my plans. I am a busy mom who occationally works in Physical Therapy filling in for vacations. This was not in my plans at all.

reply from: 4given

No doubt there is a need for it. My sister had a stillborn at 30+ weeks. (he may have been up to 34 weeks, I don't recall) They didn't have the money to pay for a casket or an elaborate burial. The funeral home generously donated what I remember to be a styrofoam box. Not very dignified! We were able to make a payment arrangement on a headstone for him, but not a casket.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I feel there should be aid for all babies miscarried or that had to be aborted for families to bury their angels in. I was totally shocked to learn that most of the time, women aren't allowed to bury their little ones after an abortion!! How is a miscarried baby different from an aborted one in the need for a proper burial receptacle?

reply from: Hosea

My ministry, Heaven's Gain, would never deny a casket for an aborted baby. Those mothers may request a casket also. Women who have lost their children due to abortion have lost a child just like those of us who have had miscarriages or stillbirth. Please check out our website www.heavensgain.com

reply from: Hosea

The baby deserves dignity whether no matter how the baby died. The mother needs to heal no matter how the baby died. Women who have had abortions have a lot more guilt because it was their choice to end their child's life. The women who chose abortion probably would not request a burial for a baby aborted in the first or second trimester but, we would be their for them if they did. www.heavensgain.com

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Thank you so much for being understanding. There are people on here who would say an aborted child doesn't deserve a proper burial because "clearly the parents hated it". They would say the woman doesn't need to mourn because "she clearly has no heart". They are so wrong!!

reply from: lukesmom

Thank you so much for being understanding. There are people on here who would say an aborted child doesn't deserve a proper burial because "clearly the parents hated it". They would say the woman doesn't need to mourn because "she clearly has no heart". They are so wrong!!
I have a VERY hard time believing anyone here would deny ANY child aborted or not a proper burial. You are assuming this.

reply from: lukesmom

You are doing a wonderful thing. I miscarried at a Catholic hosp and my child was buried in their special cemetary. Every year I am invited to a special memorial service for our little ones. Not all moms are extended this concideration unfortunantly.
I will pass this on to the internet greif circles I am involved in.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Thank you so much for being understanding. There are people on here who would say an aborted child doesn't deserve a proper burial because "clearly the parents hated it". They would say the woman doesn't need to mourn because "she clearly has no heart". They are so wrong!!
I have a VERY hard time believing anyone here would deny ANY child aborted or not a proper burial. You are assuming this.
I am actually going off what I have read. Sure, they'd TAKE the baby away from the clinic, but they would feel the mother has no right to it since she "threw it away".

reply from: lukesmom

Thank you so much for being understanding. There are people on here who would say an aborted child doesn't deserve a proper burial because "clearly the parents hated it". They would say the woman doesn't need to mourn because "she clearly has no heart". They are so wrong!!
I have a VERY hard time believing anyone here would deny ANY child aborted or not a proper burial. You are assuming this.
I am actually going off what I have read. Sure, they'd TAKE the baby away from the clinic, but they would feel the mother has no right to it since she "threw it away".
If the mother of a born baby ripped it's body apart, how much sympathathy would anyone feel for her? Would she have the right to bury her child or does she forgo this right? Not much different really.
I feel much sympathy for the parent who regrets but can understand the sentament that she gave away parental rights when she concented to kill her unborn child same as if that same child was born.

reply from: AshMarie88

That is really sweet, thanks for the link. Hopefully more of this word will get out, especially to women who are unfortunate enough to have miscarried or still miscarry. <3

reply from: Jameberlin

This is a beautiful thing you're doing, i don't think there are enough resources out there for parents grieving the death of their unborn...
I'm sorry for the loss of your babies.
Still, it is a remarkable testament to the belief that every life has a purpose.

reply from: Hosea

Thanks for your support. You are right there are very few resources for grieving parents to bury their child. I began this ministry because someone needed to help families bury their dead babies so they can have some peace and closure.

reply from: Hosea

It is sad that it is odd to bury a dead child. I would think this would follow a consistant life ethic principle. Babies are people who deserve respect in life and in death. Families deserve the right to greive their child and bury their child.

reply from: Jameberlin

I often talk to people who feel the need to include their miscarried babies, or stillbirths every time they mention their children. I think this is a good way for people to understand that to this couple, these were babies too, and they loved them.
I know a couple who miscarried in the second trimester, when the baby was born they named him, baptized him, and buried him. They had several small children who were all expecting a baby, how do you explain to them that the baby has died without giving them some form of closure? I don't think this should be unusual, odd or grim, it's a part of life, and they are people too. The Egyptians mummified stillborns and miscarriages, even cro magnon man buried pre-term infants with all the care they buried their adults... these people understood the value of human life.
I've often heard of women who lament their miscarried babies being left in a bowl at a hospital, women who fear their bleeding on the toilet would flush the baby into the sewer... I think we should take what these women feel to heart, since our gut reactions are usually the right reactions.

reply from: Hosea

Hi Luke's mom,
Thanks for your support of my ministry. Your website looks great and I was able to refer one of my clients who has a verysick baby who will probably die in the next couple weeks. I plan to link your site to mine for my clients that may be helped by it. Did you get a chance to check out my website? www.heavensgain.com

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Did you ask her why she did it? No. Of course they have no sympathy; they don't want to have any sympathy, only hate. Perhaps she was dying? Did that ever occur to these people who would condemn?
You seem to personify the callous hate I speak of. These are babies too; they still deserve a proper burial. If not for the mother (since you seem incapable of having any emotion aside from hate for her) then why not for the child? Doesn't it deserve the dignity of burial after what it went through?
Again, if you haven't asked her why she aborted, if you haven't looked in her eyes and felt her pain then you have no right to condemn her. You don't know why she did what she did. Perhaps if she'd know that it was ok to carry to term she would have, so why hate the uninformed? Perhaps she was dying and didn't have a choice. Again, why do you hate her?
We're not talking about elective early-term abortions here. Most women in those cases want nothing to do with the remains. We are talking about late-term abortions where the entire body of the baby survives. It is often delivered whole so the mother can hold it and say goodbye. But it takes sympathy to understand these women.
Lukesmom, I know you are capable of sympathy, but you need to stop looking at these women like soulless killers, and realise they are victims too. Those who abort because of deformities don't realise there is care and it's ok to carry to term, and those who abort to save their own life are traumatized that they had to choose between themselves and their baby.

reply from: Hosea

Please let others know about our ministry, Heaven's Gain. People need to know about us if we are to help them. So many people told me they wish we were around when they had their miscarriages and stillbirths. I wish someone could have given me the knowledge I have now when I was going through the losses. I am not saying everyone greives the same way but unfortunately I have had experience in the deaths of my children before they were born.
I would appreciate any feedback on our website www.heavensgain.com

reply from: lukesmom

Did you ask her why she did it? No. Of course they have no sympathy; they don't want to have any sympathy, only hate. Perhaps she was dying? Did that ever occur to these people who would condemn?
You seem to personify the callous hate I speak of. These are babies too; they still deserve a proper burial. If not for the mother (since you seem incapable of having any emotion aside from hate for her) then why not for the child? Doesn't it deserve the dignity of burial after what it went through?
Again, if you haven't asked her why she aborted, if you haven't looked in her eyes and felt her pain then you have no right to condemn her. You don't know why she did what she did. Perhaps if she'd know that it was ok to carry to term she would have, so why hate the uninformed? Perhaps she was dying and didn't have a choice. Again, why do you hate her?
We're not talking about elective early-term abortions here. Most women in those cases want nothing to do with the remains. We are talking about late-term abortions where the entire body of the baby survives. It is often delivered whole so the mother can hold it and say goodbye. But it takes sympathy to understand these women.
Lukesmom, I know you are capable of sympathy, but you need to stop looking at these women like soulless killers, and realise they are victims too. Those who abort because of deformities don't realise there is care and it's ok to carry to term, and those who abort to save their own life are traumatized that they had to choose between themselves and their baby.
Whoa, hold on a minute! Never once have I ever said I "hated" any woman or called them "soulless killers" for aborting for whatever reason. I will say they have killed a human life because they have. I don't understand some of their reasons such as wrong gender, wrong time, and other frivilous reasons. I have been pg 6 times and did not rejoice ever single time. I have been soooo tired and without insurance and without money. I have mc and I DID consider termination when my son was diagnosed with a terminal deformity. I very much understand why women abort but will NEVER condone their action, I also will not judge that action as much as I abhor it because it is not up to me to judge. That is reserved for God alone. I do, however, become annoyed when words are "put in my mouth" and assumptions are made about me.

reply from: Hosea

Hi Jameberlin,
I too, know many people who left their baby at the hospital and have worried about what happened to their baby's body. I have created these burial options so women have a choice to bury their child or not if it dies before or shortly after it is born. There really wasn't anything out there and I di not feel good about the way I buried my babies who died.
Sometimes I mention my miscarried children when people ask how many kid I have I will say ------ and three more in heaven. I don't always say this and whenI don't I often feel as if I am denying their existance. I just don't want that uncomfortable moment where they don't know what to say. I don't want there sympathy. I just want to acknowledge ALL my children's existance.
Did you check out my website www.heavensgain.com ?

reply from: lukesmom

Hosea, was finally able to look at your site and it is providing a wonderful service to families. The processes of burying our babies is soooo important and they so very much deserve to be buried in a respectful and loving manner that unfortunantly is not guarenteed. Thank you for helping to change the mindset regarding pregnancy and infant loss. Many ideas are changing because of parents who refuse to accept the status quo and are willing to help other families. Keep up the great work and I am sending your sight out to all the ctt and grief sites I know of.

reply from: lukesmom

Did you ask her why she did it? No. Of course they have no sympathy; they don't want to have any sympathy, only hate. Perhaps she was dying? Did that ever occur to these people who would condemn?
You seem to personify the callous hate I speak of. These are babies too; they still deserve a proper burial. If not for the mother (since you seem incapable of having any emotion aside from hate for her) then why not for the child? Doesn't it deserve the dignity of burial after what it went through?
Again, if you haven't asked her why she aborted, if you haven't looked in her eyes and felt her pain then you have no right to condemn her. You don't know why she did what she did. Perhaps if she'd know that it was ok to carry to term she would have, so why hate the uninformed? Perhaps she was dying and didn't have a choice. Again, why do you hate her?
We're not talking about elective early-term abortions here. Most women in those cases want nothing to do with the remains. We are talking about late-term abortions where the entire body of the baby survives. It is often delivered whole so the mother can hold it and say goodbye. But it takes sympathy to understand these women.
Lukesmom, I know you are capable of sympathy, but you need to stop looking at these women like soulless killers, and realise they are victims too. Those who abort because of deformities don't realise there is care and it's ok to carry to term, and those who abort to save their own life are traumatized that they had to choose between themselves and their baby.
Whoa, hold on a minute! Never once have I ever said I "hated" any woman or called them "soulless killers" for aborting for whatever reason. I will say they have killed a human life because they have. I don't understand some of their reasons such as wrong gender, wrong time, and other frivilous reasons. I have been pg 6 times and did not rejoice ever single time. I have been soooo tired and without insurance and without money. I have mc and I DID consider termination when my son was diagnosed with a terminal deformity. I very much understand why women abort but will NEVER condone their action, I also will not judge that action as much as I abhor it because it is not up to me to judge. That is reserved for God alone. I do, however, become annoyed when words are "put in my mouth" and assumptions are made about me.
Bumping for cheereo

reply from: Hosea

Hi Luke's Mom,
Thanks for checking out my website and for spreading the word about my ministry. It really helps to have support. Although pro-life groups have told me they think it is a great idea, they have not spread the word that we are around. I really appreciate your support.
www.heavensgain.com

reply from: Hosea

Could someone suggest ways I could let others know about my ministry, Heaven's Gain?
www.heavensgain.com

reply from: Jameberlin

Hosea,
You're doing wonderful work, i am letting everyone know about your ministry. I will refer your site to the local pro-life crisis pregnancy center that i volunteered at.

reply from: Hosea

Hi Jameberlin,
Thanks for letting people know our ministry exists. Thanks so much for your support. It really means a lot. This has been very difficult for me. I have consolled many mothers and fathers and although it is very rewarding, it is painfully remindful of my own losses. God's will be done with it!

reply from: Hosea

I would like to let Fr. Pavone at Priests for Life to know about my ministry, Heaven's Gain. Does anyone know how to contact him?
www.heavensgain.com

reply from: Hosea

What does "bump" mean

reply from: AshMarie88

It means to "bump" up the post, bump it to the very minute or day.

reply from: Hosea

Hi AshMarie,
Thanks for the information on a bump. I am new to the forum so it is great to have somone wh o can explain a few things to me.
God Bless

reply from: Hosea

I am looking for suggestions for books that help with healing after miscarriage. I would also like recommendations of books for babies who died shortly after birth. Do you have any recommendations?

reply from: lukesmom

Take a look at this site http://www.aplacetoremember.com/mall/category.asp?cat=1

I put your info on the forum, here's the link to the forum
http://207.5.41.119/PhpBB/index.php?sid=f3c8a9aef101814f7bd20930b6cbe5c9

reply from: lukesmom

Here is a link to a site for perinatal hospice info: Amy is great and an auther of 1 wonderful book and a second that is being published. Her son died of a heart defect shortly after birth. She is a great resourse and has a lot of connections in the poor prenatal diagnosis and grief area.
http://perinatalhospice.org/

reply from: lukesmom

Monica would be VERY interested in your site and has a lot of connections. She is pregnant and may have had her baby so may be hard to get ahold of. She hasn't been answering my e-mails but my computer has been acting up lately. Try e-mailing her from the site and feel free to let her know that Sue Luke's mom sent you.
http://www.benotafraid.net/

reply from: lukesmom

Mary at this site is always interested and adding more stuff every day. It is a great site.
http://prenatalpartnersforlife.org/

reply from: galen

you know i actually included this site in one of my lectures this semester... the grad students were encouraged and thought that more docs needed to know it exsisted... i've decided to include it in the sylubus ...

reply from: galen

nope the prenatal partners for life.
i've thought about hosea's but i'm still unsure about including it...most med students need smal sips of this type of info untill they reach 3rd year or so... mine are all 2nd years for the most part... just the first steps into OB and GYN... its the sociology part of the pragramme that your site fits into.

reply from: lukesmom

I thought that was the site you ment. Luke's picture is included on their brochure. I can't believe how the site has expanded in the past couple years! I think it is wonderful you are using it! If any of the students want to talk to the moms, I bet Mary would pair them up. I would be happy to do that for teaching purposes.

reply from: Hosea

Hi Lukes mom,
I knew you would come through for me. I am helping someone who has recieved a terminal prognosis for a baby she is carriying. She is about 18 weeks. I want to give her as much info as possible. If you would like to exchange personal e-mail. Go to the vivitor page on my website and write a comment and I will send you my personal e-mail address.

reply from: lukesmom

Hosea, I sent a message through your site but my computer wouldn't let me send it so I copied and pasted your e-mail address and tried to send it that way. I don't know if it will work. Check your PM here. I sent you a message there too.

reply from: Hosea

Thanks Luke's mom,
Your links are great! I read your story and I cried for quite a while. Bless your entire fanmily including your little interceder in heaven.
Hosea

reply from: Hosea

I found a beautiful prayer after miscarriage:
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/miscarriage.htm

reply from: Hosea

Hello all,
I am back from vacation. My sisiter ran my Heaven's Gain Ministry while I was away. We are still getting most of our refereals from internet searches but we recently got one from a link and I think the link might have been from Luke's mom's website. So being on here, did help me help one more person. Thank you Luke's mom. Thanks to all who have spread the word about our ministry.
BTW..... I am all gitty about Sarah Palin for VP
Hosea
I found a beautiful prayer after miscarriage:
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/miscarriage.htm

reply from: Hosea

Hey Luke's mom and 4 given. We started foster classes. We are praying for discernment. We want to follow God's will. They said at classes that they lost 100 families last year and they really need more foster parents.

reply from: lukesmom

That's great Hosea! Fostering children is something I thought of doing until we ended up with 4 of our own and no where to stack them all! Good luck!

reply from: 4given

Good for you! So that means a home study soon. 100 families? That is insane. I know you stated a need for newborn fosters. I am curious as to how this will work out for you. I would love for you to keep in touch through it. It is challenging in ways you may not have thought of. It is well worth it. Typically it balances out. Please keep in touch. I may have questions for you, as well as some information. It varies from state to state, but the core is the same. I wish you the best. Many blessings to you and yours and all that God may place in your home!

reply from: Hosea

My web address is www.heavensgain.com

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Caskets designed for burial of pets are widely available, do NOT look like they were intended for animals, are fairly inexpensive and are large enough for fetal remains.
I do NOT mean this to be disrespectful. I just wanted to share the info because it might make it easier or cheaper for someone.

reply from: Hosea

The only other places that I have found who sell miscarriage caskets are Bay memorials and Elizabeth ministry. I did not find these ntil after I sarted our ministry.
My ministry is Heaven's Gain.
www.heavensgain.com

reply from: Hosea

I just wanted to let those members who have supported my burial minstry, Heaven's Gain, that I have helped several peole through this post on pro-life America forum. I have not supplied anyone who came from here a casket but I have helped them with advice and referals. I am grateful for your support and wanted to thank you. Suporters of my minstry, if you have any other advice, I welcome it. WE only provide caskets for babies up to 27 weeks. We were only trying to fill an area that was not met by other casket makers. I have had several requests for caskets for full term pregnancy babies and we were not able to provide a casket. Trappist caskets will provide child and infant caskets free or for a donation.
www.heavensgain.com

reply from: ProInformed

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9603/articles/goodwin.html
">http://www.leaderu.com/ftissue...es/goodwin.html
Many parents are grieving the needless death of their baby by abortion
BECAUSE they were lied to and told they had to abort for health reasons.
I personally know two women who were told they had to abort for medical reasons, but because one of the women was pro-life and therefore KNEW the truth so she KNEW they were lying to her, and the other was given truthful info to refute the pro-abort lies, neither 'chose' to let them kill her baby. Sadly in both of those cases their baby died anyway in utero and then was given a memorial service and burial (one baby was cremated and kept in a little urn). But the mother's grief was not made worse by abortion, their babies died naturally in the peace and warmth of their mother's womb - not by being brutally killed.

reply from: ProInformed

Can somebody please provide a link to the thread about the bodies of aborted babies found dumped by the side of a highway in California, and the pro-lifers who offered to give those babies a decent burial?
Found it:
From epm.org
54 Babies
Posted in: Standing for Life
By George F. Will
CHINO HILLS, Calif.: Where Route 71 crosses over Payton Drive, at the bottom of the steeply sloping embankment, two boys, who were playing nearby, found the boxes. The boys bicycled home and said they had found boxes of "babies."
Do not be impatient with the imprecision of their language. They have not read the opposite Supreme Court opinions. So when they stumbled on the boxes stuffed with 54 fetuses, which looked a lot like babies, they jumped to conclusions. Besides, young boys are apt to believe their eyes rather than the Supreme Court.
The first count came to a lot less than 54. Forgive the counters' imprecision. Many fetuses had been dismembered-hands, arms, legs, heads jumbled together-by the abortionist's vigor. An accurate count required a lot of sorting out.
The fetuses had been dumped here, about 30 miles east of Los Angeles, on March 14, 1997, by a trucker who may not have known what the Los Angeles abortion clinic had hired him to dispose of. He later served 71 days in jail for the improper disposal of medical waste. Society must be strict about its important standards.
What local authorities dealt with as a problem of solid waste disposal struck a few local residents as rather more troubling than that. They started talking to each other, and one thing led to another, and to the formation of Cradles of Love, which had the modest purpose of providing a burial for the 54 babies.
The members of Cradles of Love-just a few normal walking-around middle-class Americans-called them babies, and still do. These people are opposed to abortion, in spite of the Supreme Court's assurance in 1973 that abortions end only "potential life." (Twenty-five years later the Supreme Court has not yet explained how a life that is merely "potential" can be ended.)
Some will say the members of Cradles of Love, who are churchgoers, have been unduly influenced by theology. Or perhaps the real culprit is biology. It teaches that after the DNA of the sperm fuse with those of the ovum a new and unique DNA complex is formed that directs the growth of the organism. It soon is called a fetus, which takes in nourishment and converts it to energy through its own distinct, unique organic functioning, and very soon it looks a lot like a baby.
Anyway, theology or biology or maybe their eyes told the members of Cradles of Love that there were some babies in need of burials. So they asked the coroner to give them the fetuses. Then the American Civil Liberties Union was heard from.
It professed itself scandalized by this threat to . . . what? The ACLU frequently works itself into lathers of anxiety about threats to the separation of church and state. It is difficult, however, to identify any person whose civil liberties were going to be menaced if the fetuses were (these are the ACLU's words) "released to the church groups for the express purpose of holding religious services." The ACLU said it opposed "facilitation" of services by a public official.
The ACLU's attack on the constitutionally protected right to the free exercise of religion failed to intimidate, and in October the babies were buried in a plot provided at no charge by a cemetery in nearby Riverside.
Each baby was given a name by a participating church group. Each name was engraved on a brass plate that was affixed to each of the 54 small, white, wooden caskets made, at no charge, by a volunteer who took three days off from work to do it. Fifty clergy and four persons active in the right-to-life movement carried the caskets. Each baby's name is inscribed on a large headstone, also provided at no charge. Fifty-four doves, provided at no charge by the cemetery, were released at the services.
The ACLU trembled for the Constitution.
We hear much about the few "extremists" in the right-to-life movement. But the vast majority of the movement's members are like the kindly, peaceable people here, who were minding their own business until some of the results of the abortion culture tumbled down a roadside embankment and into their lives.
Which is not to say that this episode was untainted by ugly extremism. It would be nice if the media, which are nothing if not diligent in documenting and deploring right-to-life extremism, could bring themselves to disapprove the extremism of the ACLU, which here attempted a bullying nastiness unredeemed by any connection to a civic purpose.
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Phone: 503-668-5200 I Email: info@epm.org
©2008 Eternal Perspective Ministries. All rights reserved.

reply from: ProInformed

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Really? Many?
I don't suppose you have any REPUTABLE reports of this EVER happening?
I've reported you to the moderator.
Your LIE that women are never lied to in order to get them to abort should not be tolerated at this pro-life site.
http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9603/articles/goodwin.html

reply from: Yuuki

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Really? Many?
I don't suppose you have any REPUTABLE reports of this EVER happening?
I've reported you to the moderator.
Your LIE that women are never lied in order to get them to abort should not be tolerated at this pro-life site.
http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9603/articles/goodwin.html
Oh, but the trash Faithman spit out on another topic is just FINE, isn't it?

reply from: Hosea

Bump for lukesmom, church mouse, rivermoon lady, lib-chi, Charles, and bossmomma

reply from: ProInformed

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
Really? Many?
I don't suppose you have any REPUTABLE reports of this EVER happening?
"Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal illness such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save life."
Alan Guttmacher, M.D.
So every time a woman is told she 'has to' abort for medical reasons, she is being LIED TO.

reply from: Shenanigans

In NZL it is required by law to offer individuals their "tissues" back after any medical surgery that removes, you get a limb amuptated, you must be offered a form asking if you want it back, how you want it back, and what you want done with it if you dont'.
Same with abortion. Here you can have the "pregnancy tissue" returned to you, cremated and returned to you, or cremated or returned to the earth (buried). You can also designate who returns it to you, be it the doctor, nurse, chaplin, Maori Kaitiaki (spiritual/elder person thingie) or lab tech.
It has a lot to do with the Maori influence down here, any body tissue or pregnancy tissue is considered Tapu (sacred) and must be treated with mana (respect).
I always thought it was odd, you'd think if someone considered their "pregnancy tissue" to be tapu and worthy of mana they wouldn't destory the child.
But yeah, the tissue is returned in a little urn or a little cardboard or wooden coffin depending on what and how you want it. For Maoris, they burry the placenta post birth an ancient custom about thanking the gods for the life by giving a sacrfice (the placenta) - its like giving nutrients back to the earth to ensure the earth can still give children and crops back to the people.
Its quite an interesting topic, and I meet a lot of people who have had their aborted children returned - most take them home and burry them in the garden. I saw a doco about a teen who aborted and had the kid burried under a rose tree. She said it's so the child still grows in some capacity through the rose bush. Frankly, I think its bloody disgusting and highly offensive to the child, but I guess they get some dignity down here (though obvioulsly not enough to be protected from murder - i can call it that because down here most of the abortiosn are done illegally, thus, are murder).
And beleive it or not, they even have a Kaitiaki/Chaplin bless the abortion clinic every week or so. Which I think is really quite disrepectful - it'd be like Hitler getting the gas chambers blessed.
That turned into a bit of a speal.

reply from: Hosea

Here is the US only 6 states have laws allowing women to be able to bury their children who are born dead prior to twenty weeks.
Illinois
Colorado
Florida
Mass.
Missouri
Ohio
These laws do not include aborted babies.

reply from: Shenanigans

That's actually kind of sad. I could understand the medical profession not wanting to return the child's remains if the mother had AIDs or some disease that might make the child's remains contagious.
They probably want the remains for research or they're too lazy to keep each child seperate and just want to get rid of them all together. But I guess if the unborn isn't considered "human" in the first place, they probably don't see a point in fussing about it.

reply from: lukesmom

Just a note, Catholic hospitals will bury the child themselves if the parent doesn't want, can't afford or the state won't allow the parent to bury their child themselves.

reply from: scopia19822

After the abortiom I ask if I could have my daughters remains and they callously told me no. I would have had to creamate her since she was in pieces. But to add insult to injury after gassing and butchering her and me they threw her into the medical waste bin.

reply from: Shenanigans

Why did you want her remains?

reply from: scopia19822

Why did you want her remains?
I wanted to give her a decent burial. I dont know why I ask, I figured that since I had failed in fighting my ex and the clinic staff, I could at least give her a burial and a gravestone. I was forced to abort I had no choice.

reply from: Shenanigans

That's pretty horrid. But if those bastard clinic staff didn't care you were being forced then they probably wouldn't care about your daughter.
And people wonder why some Lifers are less then enthused about breaking bread with these "medical professionals".

reply from: scopia19822

That's pretty horrid. But if those bastard clinic staff didn't care you were being forced then they probably wouldn't care about your daughter.
And people wonder why some Lifers are less then enthused about breaking bread with these "medical professionals".
No they did not care, my ex and his monster mom paid them 1000 dollars to "take care of the problem" and as they told me they had been paid to do a job and were going to do the job. The abortionist was a family friend .

reply from: Shenanigans

Its hard not to wish ill on people like that.

reply from: Hosea

That is awful. I know most abortive babies are placed in medical waste or down commecial disposals. Even Tiller the Killer has a crematory. I would never deny a casket to a person who had an abortion. The baby deserves dignity even after death.
$1000 is a lot of maney for an abortion. How far along were you?

reply from: scopia19822

That is awful. I know most abortive babies are placed in medical waste or down commecial disposals. Even Tiller the Killer has a crematory. I would never deny a casket to a person who had an abortion. The baby deserves dignity even after death.
$1000 is a lot of maney for an abortion. How far along were you?
I was about 18 weeks or so. About 4bordering on 5 months.

reply from: BossMomma

That is awful. I know most abortive babies are placed in medical waste or down commecial disposals. Even Tiller the Killer has a crematory. I would never deny a casket to a person who had an abortion. The baby deserves dignity even after death.
$1000 is a lot of maney for an abortion. How far along were you?
I was about 18 weeks or so. About 4bordering on 5 months.
You know, sometimes families who cannot recover the remains of a lost loved one bury an empty casket for symbolism. Have you thought of doing that? I had symbolic funerals for my three miscarriages and planted flowers in their honor, it helped me with the grieving for my children who were never meant to be.

reply from: Hosea

That is awful. I know most abortive babies are placed in medical waste or down commecial disposals. Even Tiller the Killer has a crematory. I would never deny a casket to a person who had an abortion. The baby deserves dignity even after death.
$1000 is a lot of maney for an abortion. How far along were you?
I was about 18 weeks or so. About 4bordering on 5 months.
I felt my last baby I lost at 15 weeks. Could you feel your baby kicking and moving prior to having the abortion or during the abortion? I never felt a baby kick as early as 15 weeks. I keep wondering if he was trying to tell me he needed help.

reply from: scopia19822

"felt my last baby I lost at 15 weeks. Could you feel your baby kicking and moving prior to having the abortion or during the abortion? I never felt a baby kick as early as 15 weeks. I keep wondering if he was trying to tell me he needed help."
Yes I did feel her move, I was unconscious during the abortion after the gassed me.

reply from: yoda

And less than enthused about calling them "doctors" or "physicians". Or kissing their butts in other ways.

reply from: Yuuki

And less than enthused about calling them "doctors" or "physicians". Or kissing their butts in other ways.
I'm sometimes less than enthused about calling certain people on here human, but I do it anyway.

reply from: nancyu

And less than enthused about calling them "doctors" or "physicians". Or kissing their butts in other ways.
I'm sometimes less than enthused about calling certain people on here human, but I do it anyway.
...numb...

reply from: Hosea

I just wanted to clarify that I felt the baby starting at 15 weeks butm he did not die until 17 weeks. I even felt him kick as I watched him kick dring an ultrasound a week before he died.

reply from: Yuuki

And less than enthused about calling them "doctors" or "physicians". Or kissing their butts in other ways.
I'm sometimes less than enthused about calling certain people on here human, but I do it anyway.
...numb...
Human.

reply from: Hosea

My heart goes out to you. Do you get sad arounfd the anniversary date?

reply from: scopia19822

My heart goes out to you. Do you get sad arounfd the anniversary date?
I am always that way. I am going to Hell because of my part in this abortion. As my former priest told me murderes go to Hell.

reply from: Yuuki

My heart goes out to you. Do you get sad arounfd the anniversary date?
I am always that way. I am going to Hell because of my part in this abortion. As my former priest told me murderes go to Hell.
Your former priest doesn't know the forgiveness of Christ then, since no sin is unforgivable in His eyes.

reply from: Hosea

My heart goes out to you. Do you get sad arounfd the anniversary date?
I am always that way. I am going to Hell because of my part in this abortion. As my former priest told me murderes go to Hell.
Your former priest doesn't know the forgiveness of Christ then, since no sin is unforgivable in His eyes.
You cerainly can be forgiven. When we were sinners Jesus died for us. And we are all sinners. YOU CAN BE FORGIVEN go to another priest who is trained in post abortion syndrome who can help you forgive yourself.


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