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I need help for my younger sister.

by: Kero

And online friend and I have been trying to help her make the right choice for some time now, but we are making little progress. He (JesusLovesYou) suggested that I join there forums, in an effort to find someone capable of helping her and us out. I've known him through the Internet for nearly five years.
My sister is just nineteen, and awaiting her second abortion. She had her first at fourteen, over her summer holidays. I had come home from university a few weeks later to discover my sister had grown into a little whore between Easter and June. The father of her child was a slightly older boy from her school, allegedly. My parents were completely distraught, but to my disgust supported her 'choice'.
Because of that, my beatiful little niece or nephew was murdered. It pains me to imagine the child that could have been.
And again, my sister is pregnant. She has learned nothing from her own mistakes, and refuses to name the father. Worse still she has an appointment at a clinic next week, where her second child will be murdered.
Please, I beg you to aid me in helping my sister to not make a second, horrific mistake.

reply from: carolemarie

First of all, quit calling her a whore. She is your sister and you should treat her with some kindness and common decency. No wonder she won't listen to you!
If you can quit condeming her, see if she will go to a crisis pregnancy center and talk to them. Unlike you, they will be kind and try to help her choose life.
Why you feel she has to name the father is beyond me. She is a legal adult.
If she keeps the baby, do you plan to help support that child? Do you plan to babysit and help her, or is your help restricted to shaming her and judging her?
There is alot of help out there. If you PM me the state and city I will send you back some resources and phone numbers, to help her.

reply from: Kero

My City and state are in my profile, no need to PM you.
And I'm sorry, but a fourteen year old girl who wears the smallest, tightest things she can find and sleeps with random, older boys, and gets drunk with the hope of a boy taking advantage of her in her 'weakened state' is little more than a whore.
I love her, but I can't help but be disgusted with her. How would you feel if someone close to you did what she did?
It just seems strange to me that she would not tell me who the father is. I do, however, know he has not spoken to her since the act that created the child.
And yes, I plan to care for her child, and love it as much as any uncle could. In fact, I even tried suggested she birth the child, and I adopt it. But no, she doesn't want to go through child-birth. Apparently, killing a child is much better than physically suffering for a little while.

reply from: Banned Member

Many prayers will be said by those who read this. You have to be strong and caring, and let your sister know that you will help her and give her any information and support that will help her. I trust that there are others here whose work would give them the knowledge and information and resources that you need right now. But keep in mind, people are praying for your sister and her child. CarolMarie is right, patience and kindness are needed from you now, even as near as things are near. Be honest, but do not lose control of your emotions.

reply from: faithman

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg
First thing, some on this forum are baby killers pretending to be "pro-life". SSSSOO Naturally they are going to rebuke you for calling it like it is. If it walks like a slut, talks like a slut.... Anyway, the best thing you can do is get as many developement pictures in front of her eyes as you can. You can put http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg into an email. You can also print one out, and have it ready to show her. I use phrases like, " If you are hell bent on killing them, at least look them in the eye before you do it". The sad fact is that she has already had one, and that tends to harden the heart towards womb children. The developement pictures are the best tool I know of for restoring natural affection towards life in the womb. The site in my sig has some really good ones.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

It's pretty clear the girl is a whore, there's no getting around that carolmarie.
In fulfillment of the command to be fruitful, fill the earth and subdue it, my seventh live birth child was born recently. In the minutes after birth I could see he was in a discovery phase. He spent a lot of time trying out his tongue and tasting (I imagine he was experiencing salty tastes). He is a pretty content baby, he is practically glued to his mother at this point and does a lot of sleeping. He is gaining weight from breastfeeding.
It's horrible that sex-mongers kill their children as useless waste that gets in the way. Much of what these whorish women and unfaithful adulterous men acquire for a mindset comes from today's society and filth such as degenerate TV shows.

reply from: faithman

Only a bort head idiot like yourself would refuse to see the child in the image. That is an eye, not just a socket, and all 10 toes, as well as 10 little fingers can be seen. All the child needs is time nad nurishment to develope. The reports I get in almost daily proves you wrong. There have been many babies saved, and many hearts turned from the evil of abortion with that picture. But I take it as the highest complement that a sold out borty such as your self would try to dis it. That only proves it is effective in saving lives. Thanks for the "endorsement".

reply from: Jameberlin

I don't believe that this girl is a whore (as whores sell themselves for money), only misguided. It is possible that at the age of 14 she was trying to compensate for the love she was not receiving from her father/older brothers, a girl needs a positive, loving and kind male influence in order to grow into a healthy woman. If your family wasn't able to provide that, like i suspect from your attitude, perhaps that's the reason she turned to the life she did? It's basic psychology here, you give what you get, and we are products of our environments.
I don't think the best way to show her the truth is to call her disgusting and belittle her while shoving photos of developing babies in her face. Trust me, i know this.
My sister had her first abortion when she was 17, my mother begged her to have the baby, she even went as far as to call a very good friend who was willing to adopt the baby and he begged her to have it. After this, my sister was so infuriated that she not only had an abortion, but stopped speaking to my entire family, and had three subsequent abortions.
It's very likely that your lack of support for your sister prior to and during her summer holiday when she was 14, caused her to feel that the abortion was necessary, and once you have one, you're much more likely to have another.
You see, women in this state are terribly afraid, and vulnerable. You couldn't possibly know the gauntlet of emotions a pregnant woman goes through, some women's hormones are so unpredictable that they don't even have control over themselves. Even women who are married and want children experience terrible anxiety and stress at the prospect of a new birth, how difficult it must be for your poor, misguided sister at this time!
You call her a whore, you tell complete strangers you think she's disgusting, yet you claim to love her! You are a hypocrite, a sinner yourself! If you claim to be a Christian, you should start acting like one.
We were taught to love, and to forgive and to be kind, yet firm and demanding.
Your sister feels no need to listen to you, because she knows what you already think of her. You think she can never be more than a whore, even if she were to change her ways and decide to have this baby and settle down, you would still look at her as dung covered in snow, she will never be able to live her first mistake down, or make it right, you have made this clear to her, no doubt and she sees no need to change anything now. Not for you, anyway, who would undoubtedly pat yourself on the back if she were to have this baby.
IF she has this abortion, and i pray and hope to God that she doesn't... He may still forgive her, in the end. Her eyes may be opened in the future, and she may do some good, but if that happens, it will certainly not be thanks to you, or any other callous and hypocritical philistine.
So the question i pose to you is this, if your sister faces God at her final judgment, and he forgives her her mistakes, because she made them out of ignorance and selfishness, what will He say for you? When you stand before God, and He asks you if you loved to the fullest, was kind, forgiving and strong, slow to anger and supportive of those who depend on you (especially those who were sinful)... what will you tell Him?
Your accusations and callousness toward your sister betray your sin of pride. It's time you get off your high horse and act like a True Christian, act like someone who fears and loves God, and who is willing to be humble, charitable, and loving.
Did you learn nothing from Christ? Or are you all fire and brimstone?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Why do you think she was a whore? Simply because she was having sex, and then with only 1 boy? That does not make someone a whore. You need to change your thinking. I am not a whore, yet I have had sex with only 1 man. I am not promoting teen sex and I think it is a terrible thing that your sister had sex so young. But that is an error of her teaching, that she was not watched carefully enough and not taught to respect her body. She made the final decision to have sex, but it was not an informed choice. Clearly she was uneducated about sex, because it sounds like she didn't use protection, or used it wrong.
Calling women who have sex whores is not right. There is nothing wrong with being a sexual being. I bet that boy got called a "stud" by his friends, yet your sister was probably called a whore even by her own friends. Such a double standard we have in America!!
As for having an abortion at fourteen, I am still conflicted about abortion for very young girls. I currently feel that the benefits outweigh the risk of pregnancy for such a tiny, undeveloped body. Girls in africa die by the thousands because they become pregnant too young and then can't push out the baby, and both of them die. So I can't give you any good advice on that first abortion because I am still conflicted myself.
It pains me to imagine your sister dying in childbirth.
Now, you have time to act. Have you shown her images of babies from the stage of pregnancy she is in? How far along is she? If she's past nine weeks, she's already carrying a fetus, not an embryo. It is not a "blob of cells" at ANY time of a normal abortion!! If she is far enough along, she will see pieces of her baby. Let her know what the baby is capable of at the stage she is in, what it will be capable of in one week, and in two. It's heart is already beating, it probably has eyes and ears and toes. It has beautiful little lips and a tiny little tummy. It can move already, though it may be too small for her to feel. Yes, it can move!! It is being discovered in research that the baby may be able to feel pain as early as week 19 for sure, and possibly earlier. It sucks its thumb and swallows amniotic fluid to practice digestion.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I wish there was a thank-you button Jamberlin!!!!! You said everything I tried to say, but a lot better!!!
Kero, you must forgive your sister, and you must tell it to her face that you forgive her. Hold her in your arms and give up your anger! Say you're sorry, that you never wanted to hurt her or turn her away. You want to help her. (I think).
You will never get another sister. No child she gives birth to or aborts will replace her. She is your one-and-only. She is precious. She has a place in your heart, but you have blocked it off with hateful words and thoughts. She can't hear you through that wall and you refuse to hear her.
Why do you think she wants to abort? Just because she doesn't want to go through the pain of childbearing and birth? If she doesn't consider the unborn to be worthy of life, then there's not much you can do upfront to tell her it's worth it. You can try to convince her of its worth, but all she's going to hear right now is "You're a baby-killing whore!" and believe me, that's not going to convince her of anything other than what she already knows: You are a terrible brother.

reply from: carolemarie

She is a person who God LOVES and needs help.
You have no reason to label her a whore. How is that helpful?
I suggest you pray for her rather than judge her.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I know it won't do any good, but I reported everyone who called the girl a whore (besides Kero since it's his own post).

reply from: faithman

She is a person who God LOVES and needs help.
You have no reason to label her a whore. How is that helpful?
I suggest you pray for her rather than judge her.
If she has not come to Christ, then the wrath of God abides on her. [John 3:36]. And the scriptures very clearly state that God hates the workers of ;
Psa 5:4 For thou [art] not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. It is a totally imballanced perversion of the scripture to make God out to be a "love patsy", when the scripture simply does not back it up. God has a love for people true enough. But until they come to Christ, and are truely converted into one of His legitimate children, the full wrath of God abides on them, and God hates them. The scripture also uses the word whore. In this case, I would say it applies. It would be better to tell her to get her neck sized for a mill stone than to "preach" the false gospel of sloppy agopy.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

She is a person who God LOVES and needs help.
You have no reason to label her a whore. How is that helpful?
I suggest you pray for her rather than judge her.
It is written in the New Testament that God will judge whore-mongers and the sexually immoral.
In The Pslams, King David says God provides a way for his banished to return to him. King David had many family problems; his son Absalom murdered his half-brother whom had raped his sister. Ultimately, the banished Absalom was allowed to return to the presence of the king. Absalom later committed rebellion and was killed. King David was crushed in spirit and wept bitterly for his rebellious son. Likewise, God allows us to return to Him. He grants forgiveness for past transgressions. That does not mean we shall ever fully repent of our ways, like Absalom, the trail could end in death. God says he takes no pleasure in the death of a man. God moans, "Oh why or why should you die!" He desires that we change our ways and is patient for us to do so. Ultimately, many will fail to truly return to the Lord.
Tonight and tomorrow night is a FOX news special on an intolerant movement that is quick to execute and punish those who stray; before offering time, chance and opportunity to repent (often years are required). See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391531,00.html to see an atrocity foisted by a Satanic mind upon mankind.

reply from: Faramir

There is no hate in God.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What is wrath if not hate?

reply from: Kero

I have slightly good news. My sister has agreed with have her appointment pushed back by three weeks, and over this time she's going to allow me to attempt to convince her to let the child live.
I am certain I will be successful, with your help. Thank you for your prayers and time.
Thank you for the warning, Faithman. And thank you for pointing out the link. I hope with those images I will be able to melt her heart.
My parents and I gave my sister all the love she could possibly want from the time she was conceived. I can remember my father talking to her when she was still in my mothers womb. We may not have been lavished with material objects, but we were drowned in love from our parents.
You're not saying my lack of support for her abortion led her to abortion, are you? I wanted to be an uncle. I wanted her to allow the life in her womb to flourish.
I know I cannot imagine what it is to be a pregnant woman. However, my mother has confessed that she would have helped my sister with that child, no matter what the cost. Financially, she had little to worry about. Her and her child would have been given all the love in the world, and she would not have had to become a murderer.
I honestly think you misread my post. I was disgusted by my parents act of supporting the abortion, by the act of killing a child. Or do you accept such an act as natural?
My sister was with far more than one boy, LiberalChiRo. And we were raised by the same parents, with the same rules and teachings. I;m not ashamed to admit that I came to my wife a virgin, and have sought no other women since. My sister, however, cannot name all the men she has been with.
But his friends are not me, are they? Or do you think I consider the boy who impregnated my sister, who never gave her another kind word as 'stud' and congratulate him for leaving her alone, and pregnant?
And girls in Africa receive far worse medical care than American girls, do they not? My sister was and is a very strongly built female, much like our mother. AT fourteen she was already 5'10, and with quite a naturally broad build, much like our mother (6'1 and father, 6'8")
She is, at the moment, roughly eight weeks. I am planning on getting to that next time we talk. The pictures and descriptions, I mean.

reply from: faithman

Psa 5:4 For thou [art] not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity

reply from: Jameberlin

Lest we all forget King David, who himself lay with Bathsheba the wife of another man (Uriah), and upon making her pregnant with his own child, called her husband back from war to trick him into laying with her to conceal the child's paternity, when the husband refused David sends him back to war with a message for Joab to leave him to be killed.
If King David himself was an adulterer, a sinner, a sex-monger, why then, do we quote his works?! By your argument God MUST hate him! Not only was he a commiter of grievous sins, but he DID NOT KNOW CHRIST! Something you consider to be a prerequisite for God's love!
King David committed adultery, and encouraged a married woman to commit adultery, after which he committed murder. For his sins God punishes David by taking the life of the child, in this instance we see God actually taking the life of an innocent to punish someone! If we're going to live our lives Sola Scriptura, should we also be killing children to punish? I think we can all agree, that is not our place.
My point is this; God punished David, God. It is God's place to decide who will be punished and not. To say you know who, and when or how God should punish, or to take the punishment in your own hands is to play God, and this, is a sin of pride, the sin of Satan, the sin of Adam and Eve.
I suggest, FaithMan, you examine your own conscience and your worth to God, before you condemn others for their (perceived) lack thereof.
I leave you with this thought (which is not mine):
"If the biblical message is, undoubtedly for Christians, the decisive criterion of all discourse about God, why then should all discourse about God be dependent on the Bible?"
Meaning, if the bible's message is what is important for us Christians to take to heart, should we be limiting our theological discussions to the content of bible?

reply from: Jameberlin

No, Kero, i don't mean to blame you for any of your sister's wrong choices. I was incited by your crude and hateful language toward her, i admit my post was written more angrily than i intended, for that i am sorry.
What i should have said was; that what we perceive as support, a pregnant woman may not... If we say "please don't do this, it's wrong" or "I'll support the baby" or "I'll help you out, just have the baby" the woman may not see it as the support and love we intend it to be, she may see someone who is more concerned about the baby, than her, and turn away from the right choice. This is what happened to my sister, this was the cause of her becoming afraid of my parents and myself, this is what made it easier for her to have more abortions. I often think, if we had been able to say "I love you, i love every part of you, i will always love you, i will love everything that has to do with you, even your child, please, don't take that away" or something that would have shown our support better, than she may have changed her mind... I wish, i wish i was older then, so i could tell her that, i wish i knew what was happening, i wish i knew how to help. My sister has just recently started communicating with our family again (she's 32 now), she told me recently that the reason she decided to have the abortion was because my mother had a friend beg her not to, she felt betrayed. She also informed me that because of her guilt over the abortion, she couldn't even look at a pregnant woman, i suspect this is what caused her to be unwilling to carry her subsequent children.
My family was also very supportive of my sister, as they have been for all of us children, always loving, always there... Sometimes though, something happens in the life of a young girl where she feels this isn't enough, many turn to men to fill a void that should be filled by the love and acceptance of those around them. Often times, girls feel they can't get this love from their family because their family is *too* good, meaning, they're afraid they'll become dirty or less in the eyes of their loved ones... This was true for my sister, perhaps it was (is) true for yours?
My sisters and I also had the same parents, while they both partook in legalized abortions, i did not. Having the same parents does not necessarily mean you'll be raised with the same mind set (as you undoubtedly know).
Is it possible that your sister went through some traumatic experience when she was younger? I know date rape of young women is not uncommon (4 women in my family were raped, i'm the only exception), is it possible that the father of her first child was in a position to make her feel the need to keep his identity secret?
Anyway... please forgive my incendiary remarks earlier, as they were made hastily and without much thought, which was a mistake. I can't stand the thought though, of cruelty toward women who have been in such situations, i can't stand slander and hate mongering, and more than being incited by your comment, i became enraged by the comments of others. It is impossible for any man to ever know the pain a woman faced with an unplanned pregnancy experiences, and while we mourn and weep for the babies lost, the women are all too often left to wallow in their guilt and shame.
I know what you're going through, i know what it feels like to be the bystander, to watch as life begins and ends, to have no control, to not know what to say or do... I know what it's like to love someone, when all you see them doing is spinning out of control... I have wept for the lost children in my family, especially now that i have my own... I have seen the grief a mother goes through after an abortion, i have seen the suffering and the shame.
This is something close to my heart, and my irrational emotions are easily aroused...

reply from: faithman

Lest we all forget King David, who himself lay with Bathsheba the wife of another man (Uriah), and upon making her pregnant with his own child, called her husband back from war to trick him into laying with her to conceal the child's paternity, when the husband refused David sends him back to war with a message for Joab to leave him to be killed.
If King David himself was an adulterer, a sinner, a sex-monger, why then, do we quote his works?! By your argument God MUST hate him! Not only was he a commiter of grievous sins, but he DID NOT KNOW CHRIST! Something you consider to be a prerequisite for God's love!
King David committed adultery, and encouraged a married woman to commit adultery, after which he committed murder. For his sins God punishes David by taking the life of the child, in this instance we see God actually taking the life of an innocent to punish someone! If we're going to live our lives Sola Scriptura, should we also be killing children to punish? I think we can all agree, that is not our place.
My point is this; God punished David, God. It is God's place to decide who will be punished and not. To say you know who, and when or how God should punish, or to take the punishment in your own hands is to play God, and this, is a sin of pride, the sin of Satan, the sin of Adam and Eve.
I suggest, FaithMan, you examine your own conscience and your worth to God, before you condemn others for their (perceived) lack thereof.
I leave you with this thought (which is not mine):
"If the biblical message is, undoubtedly for Christians, the decisive criterion of all discourse about God, why then should all discourse about God be dependent on the Bible?"
Meaning, if the bible's message is what is important for us Christians to take to heart, should we be limiting our theological discussions to the content of bible?
And I suggest you look in the mirror when you accuse others of pride. The snootness of this post tells me you think yourself superior to everyone else who has posted here. All I was pointing out is that the scripture did not back up what was being said. The only authoritative source for any Christian must be the scripture. Other wise everything devolves into man's opinion. I have condemned no one. If one does not surrrender to Christ, they are condemned already, and the wrath of God abides on them. That is not my judgment, that is the Bible. If you don't like what is written in it, take it up with the author. The nation of Israel believed in the Christ to come. David most assuredly believe in Christ, and wrote some of the most revieling prophesies about Jesus. The thing that saved David was he had a heart after God, and he was king. Anyone else would have been stoned to death. I suggest you study your bible a little better and put your smug attitude away. My conscience has been blood washed, and am fully aware of my worth to God based solely on His grace. The point is that the Bible is clear that those who do not come to Christ are condemned already, and the wrath of God abides on them. God hates sin and sinner alike, and only loves those who are converted into new creatures by surrendering to Christ as Lord. It is not a point of pride for me to point that out. It is called the great commission. You are trying to create a god in your imagination. That is idolatry. God is who He says He is, and He revealed Himself Thru His word. Once again, you don't like it take it up with Him.

reply from: nancyu

Wrath is wrath. Hate is hate. They are two completely different things. Hey Yoda, where's the dictionary?
Wrath is anger. I am reminded of a time my son struck my daughter. He was around 4 and she was barely two. I was angry with him, and I made my anger clear and said he should never do that again. That is wrath.
I do not hate my son. I love him very, very much. But he can not hit his sister.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Thank you for that clarification.

reply from: yoda

wrath
/roth, rawth/
. noun extreme anger.
http://www.onelook.com

reply from: deannat

This is indeed good news. The fact that your sister has decided to least postpone her abortion tells me she is having second thoughts. Perhaps she really wants to have children at some point in her life and sees this pregnancy as an opportunity that might never come again. Regardless of her reasons for her appointment delay, however, now is not the time for you to be angry or judgmental with her. Both her and her baby need all the love they can get.
Kero, your posts have reminded me of just how much difference can exist between brothers. My next door neighbor has four adult children. Right after the youngest girl received her driver's license, she stole the keys to her oldest brother's car and went out for a joy ride. She got maybe four blocks from home before driving the car into a ditch. Except for a few scratches and bruises she escaped from the wreckage unhurt. The car, however, was a total loss. Instead of being angry with her for stealing and destroying his car, her brother was thankful she wasn't killed in the accident. When I talked to him about it later he told me that he could always get another car, but he would never be able to get another sister.
The point I'm trying to make is this: My friend loves his sister above all else. Your love for your sister is conditional. You expect her to willingly risk both her health and her life in order for you to be an uncle.
Good luck in your future talks with your sister. However, please don't use the opportunity to be angry or judgmental with her. As another poster here has pointed out, such an approach could backfire.

reply from: Jameberlin

Lest we all forget King David, who himself lay with Bathsheba the wife of another man (Uriah), and upon making her pregnant with his own child, called her husband back from war to trick him into laying with her to conceal the child's paternity, when the husband refused David sends him back to war with a message for Joab to leave him to be killed.
If King David himself was an adulterer, a sinner, a sex-monger, why then, do we quote his works?! By your argument God MUST hate him! Not only was he a commiter of grievous sins, but he DID NOT KNOW CHRIST! Something you consider to be a prerequisite for God's love!
King David committed adultery, and encouraged a married woman to commit adultery, after which he committed murder. For his sins God punishes David by taking the life of the child, in this instance we see God actually taking the life of an innocent to punish someone! If we're going to live our lives Sola Scriptura, should we also be killing children to punish? I think we can all agree, that is not our place.
My point is this; God punished David, God. It is God's place to decide who will be punished and not. To say you know who, and when or how God should punish, or to take the punishment in your own hands is to play God, and this, is a sin of pride, the sin of Satan, the sin of Adam and Eve.
I suggest, FaithMan, you examine your own conscience and your worth to God, before you condemn others for their (perceived) lack thereof.
I leave you with this thought (which is not mine):
"If the biblical message is, undoubtedly for Christians, the decisive criterion of all discourse about God, why then should all discourse about God be dependent on the Bible?"
Meaning, if the bible's message is what is important for us Christians to take to heart, should we be limiting our theological discussions to the content of bible?
And I suggest you look in the mirror when you accuse others of pride. The snootness of this post tells me you think yourself superior to everyone else who has posted here. All I was pointing out is that the scripture did not back up what was being said. The only authoritative source for any Christian must be the scripture. Other wise everything devolves into man's opinion. I have condemned no one. If one does not surrrender to Christ, they are condemned already, and the wrath of God abides on them. That is not my judgment, that is the Bible. If you don't like what is written in it, take it up with the author. The nation of Israel believed in the Christ to come. David most assuredly believe in Christ, and wrote some of the most revieling prophesies about Jesus. The thing that saved David was he had a heart after God, and he was king. Anyone else would have been stoned to death. I suggest you study your bible a little better and put your smug attitude away. My conscience has been blood washed, and am fully aware of my worth to God based solely on His grace. The point is that the Bible is clear that those who do not come to Christ are condemned already, and the wrath of God abides on them. God hates sin and sinner alike, and only loves those who are converted into new creatures by surrendering to Christ as Lord. It is not a point of pride for me to point that out. It is called the great commission. You are trying to create a god in your imagination. That is idolatry. God is who He says He is, and He revealed Himself Thru His word. Once again, you don't like it take it up with Him.
You suggested she have a millstone fitted around her neck, you called her a slut and a whore, and you think this is somehow not a judgment on your part?
And please, since you're obviously the only one who knows how the scripture should be interpreted, could you point out to me where, exactly Christ states He hates sinners?
I find numerous texts referring to God's hate of sin, but also find many referring to God's love for us, while we were still sinners.
"For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:6-8).
This passage emphasizes that the sinners Christ loved were neither good nor righteous.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16)
"In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10)
In these passages, John makes it clear that God loves lost sinners, and proved His love by sending His Son.
If you're wondering how God could love sinners and hate their sins, it should be considered a possibility that the bible writers were using a figure of speech called metonymy, literally, "A figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated, as in the use of Washington for the United States government or of the sword for military power. " The definition is further described as "of cause," when the person acting can be put in place of the thing that is done (Bullenger, 1898). In this instance, we can assume that when it is said "God hates a lying tounge" (Proverbs 6:17) the author is really referring to God hating the lie, not the physical tounge. (Apologetics Press)
As is true today, the authors of the Bible commonly used figures of speech. This should not be overlooked when interpreting the scriptures.
Your comments and lack of compassion make me angry, you often come across as being petty an immature. I do NOT think i am better than anyone, and i NEVER presume to know what is in any persons heart but my own. Maybe its your insecurities that make you feel i'm being snooty? But then, it could be my snotiness that make you appear insecure.. so who knows?

reply from: Jameberlin

Kero, i'm really happy that your sister is willing to reconsider your position, and the life of her baby. I will pray for her, and her child.

reply from: faithman

Lest we all forget King David, who himself lay with Bathsheba the wife of another man (Uriah), and upon making her pregnant with his own child, called her husband back from war to trick him into laying with her to conceal the child's paternity, when the husband refused David sends him back to war with a message for Joab to leave him to be killed.
If King David himself was an adulterer, a sinner, a sex-monger, why then, do we quote his works?! By your argument God MUST hate him! Not only was he a commiter of grievous sins, but he DID NOT KNOW CHRIST! Something you consider to be a prerequisite for God's love!
King David committed adultery, and encouraged a married woman to commit adultery, after which he committed murder. For his sins God punishes David by taking the life of the child, in this instance we see God actually taking the life of an innocent to punish someone! If we're going to live our lives Sola Scriptura, should we also be killing children to punish? I think we can all agree, that is not our place.
My point is this; God punished David, God. It is God's place to decide who will be punished and not. To say you know who, and when or how God should punish, or to take the punishment in your own hands is to play God, and this, is a sin of pride, the sin of Satan, the sin of Adam and Eve.
I suggest, FaithMan, you examine your own conscience and your worth to God, before you condemn others for their (perceived) lack thereof.
I leave you with this thought (which is not mine):
"If the biblical message is, undoubtedly for Christians, the decisive criterion of all discourse about God, why then should all discourse about God be dependent on the Bible?"
Meaning, if the bible's message is what is important for us Christians to take to heart, should we be limiting our theological discussions to the content of bible?
And I suggest you look in the mirror when you accuse others of pride. The snootness of this post tells me you think yourself superior to everyone else who has posted here. All I was pointing out is that the scripture did not back up what was being said. The only authoritative source for any Christian must be the scripture. Other wise everything devolves into man's opinion. I have condemned no one. If one does not surrrender to Christ, they are condemned already, and the wrath of God abides on them. That is not my judgment, that is the Bible. If you don't like what is written in it, take it up with the author. The nation of Israel believed in the Christ to come. David most assuredly believe in Christ, and wrote some of the most revieling prophesies about Jesus. The thing that saved David was he had a heart after God, and he was king. Anyone else would have been stoned to death. I suggest you study your bible a little better and put your smug attitude away. My conscience has been blood washed, and am fully aware of my worth to God based solely on His grace. The point is that the Bible is clear that those who do not come to Christ are condemned already, and the wrath of God abides on them. God hates sin and sinner alike, and only loves those who are converted into new creatures by surrendering to Christ as Lord. It is not a point of pride for me to point that out. It is called the great commission. You are trying to create a god in your imagination. That is idolatry. God is who He says He is, and He revealed Himself Thru His word. Once again, you don't like it take it up with Him.
You suggested she have a millstone fitted around her neck, you called her a slut and a whore, and you think this is somehow not a judgment on your part?
And please, since you're obviously the only one who knows how the scripture should be interpreted, could you point out to me where, exactly Christ states He hates sinners?
I find numerous texts referring to God's hate of sin, but also find many referring to God's love for us, while we were still sinners.
"For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:6-8).
This passage emphasizes that the sinners Christ loved were neither good nor righteous.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16)
"In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10)
In these passages, John makes it clear that God loves lost sinners, and proved His love by sending His Son.
If you're wondering how God could love sinners and hate their sins, it should be considered a possibility that the bible writers were using a figure of speech called metonymy, literally, "A figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated, as in the use of Washington for the United States government or of the sword for military power. " The definition is further described as "of cause," when the person acting can be put in place of the thing that is done (Bullenger, 1898). In this instance, we can assume that when it is said "God hates a lying tounge" (Proverbs 6:17) the author is really referring to God hating the lie, not the physical tounge. (Apologetics Press)
As is true today, the authors of the Bible commonly used figures of speech. This should not be overlooked when interpreting the scriptures.
Your comments and lack of compassion make me angry, you often come across as being petty an immature. I do NOT think i am better than anyone, and i NEVER presume to know what is in any persons heart but my own. Maybe its your insecurities that make you feel i'm being snooty? But then, it could be my snotiness that make you appear insecure.. so who knows?
You quote John 3:16, but ignore the rest of the chapter. Start in verse 15 and read all the way thru to verse 36. You are willingly ignorant of the true nature of God. He has a love He wants to share with the world. But in order to experiance that love, one must come to Him in contrite broken humility. Your position ignores the reality that those who refuse Christ are condemned already, and the wrath of God abides on the children of disobediance. Over and over again, this is said thru out the scriptures. Just try to read Ephesians some time. You falsely accuse me of being unmerciful. But true mercy, as expressed in the scripture, tells lost humanity that the full wrath of God abides on them. They are condemned, and God hates both sin and sinner. God has made a way of escape. The full wrath of God was placed on the perfect sacrefice of Christ on the cross. Now the love of God can be expressed to mankind thru the shed blood of Jesus. But one will never experiance the redeeming love of God without surrender to Christ as Lord. Until one surrenders to Christ, the full wrath of God abides on them, and He hates the workers of iniquity. I will not lie to people, nor"soften" the true message of the gospel. I will leave that one up to you phonies.

reply from: Kero

A friend gave me a site.
I am going to link my sister to this: http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/wrtk/develop/week8.shtm

Since that's where her baby should be, at the moment.
But do you think I should give her a link to this http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/wrtk/develop/week12.shtm too?
It's where her baby would be at the time she decides to murder it, if she goes that route again. Is that too much?

reply from: churchmouse

Did you ever think that maybe she does not know who the father is? If she is sleeping around then..........????????????
It's only gross to those that really dont care about that which is human in the womb. Annoying pic.....empty sockets.........nothing there, you say?
Only to someone that doesnt have anything between the ears or in the HEART to see it.
As to whether she is a whore or not........its all the same to God. Whore is just a label but one God take seriously. You have sex with someone outside the marriage bed and its sin. And all sin is wrong. I believe Christ would look at her and tell her the same thing as he did the woman he stopped from being stoned. How many men or woman today could fit into that category? She is no different than the majority of society in that sense. Age is irrelevant. Whether you are fifteen or fifty you cant join your body to another person sexually without sinning, without serious emotional and physical consequences. The results .......divorce, venereal disease, pregnancy. God did not intend sex to be a game. It is a sacred commitment before to Him and it should be to us.
The truth is the truth.......She should be shown pictures of the unborn. They are not gross, they represent that which is in the womb that we cant see. They are real, they are beautiful and they are the truth. I would not call her names of course, but would let her know especially if she claimed she believed in God, that her actions were sinful and why.
Why should we trust you? I wouldnt trust anyone that said, showing human fetuses was wrong sorry.
He will ONLY forgive her if she repents and asks and is sincere and turns away from what she is doing. And of course anyone can say they have done this. Although the fruits of someone life says a lot about where their heart is, nobody knows but God if someone has truely accepted Him.
Jesus was sent to earth because we were sinners. If we could die and then ask forgivenss, He didnt really need to have come. We only have while we are living to repent and accept Him because after we are dead.......there are no second chances. That is what the Great Commission is all about......reaching the lost before they die. Jesus said, Blessed are those who have not seen but believe by FAITH. It doesnt take anything to believe when you have seen it.
Jesus will judge you on one thing. Did you accept Him or not. If you have not accepted Him.......then you will not have eternal life and will go to hell. No good deed is good enough to save you.......Christ saves.
People will be judged on who they thought Christ was?
Wisdom comes from fearing the Lord. He is loving but He will also pour out His wrath on those that are unbelievers, those rejected Him.
She is a sinner. Its a sin whether or not she had sex with one or ten. You sinned when you had sex. She was not taught to respect God. If you respect Him and believe His plan in the scriptures is the truth....then you will do as He commands and will love and respect yourself and others. This girl had sex.....of her own free will. She sinned.
Like the scriptures say we must pursue righteousness, faith, love.
Liberal you said there is nothing wrong with being a sexual being. God did create sex to feel good......but only for those that are married. Now if you are not Christian then you live by the worlds standards and sex then can be a recreational sport.......try it on for size, if it feels good do it.
Then for you none of what I just said here makes sense.
It doesnt make sense does it?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

She is a sinner. Its a sin whether or not she had sex with one or ten. You sinned when you had sex. She was not taught to respect God. If you respect Him and believe His plan in the scriptures is the truth....then you will do as He commands and will love and respect yourself and others. This girl had sex.....of her own free will. She sinned.
Ok, so then why are we making such a big deal about it?
Show me the exact line of scripture that says that.
Absofreakinglutely it does. The "world's" standards make a lot more sense than the Bible's does in many cases. I don't believe the bible is inerrant so yeah.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No, I think that's good. She needs to see both.

reply from: churchmouse

I will tell you this vexing......you are so into yourself its nauseating to read. Its about you.....and if it isnt about you, you try to turn the conversation into you and your genetalia.
This site is about pro-life issues, not TG issues. This site is about the inhumanity of abortion.
What dont you get?
I am not here to talk about TG people. Arent there sites where you can go and hang out that specifically talk about what you are going through?
You dont care about the unborn, you never did. I got news for ya bud.......I dont want to look at anyones genitalia, got it? My husbands.......and THAT IS IT.
Its not because I feel the body is gross. You put words into peoples mouths. And you do it to start fights. You need, you want, you crave attention....that much is obvious.
You are pathetic ....to say that pictures of the life in the womb are gross.

reply from: churchmouse

Ahhhhhh vex
BUMP
Cant answer the questions or just dont wanna? LOL

reply from: 4given

Question is, will it be enough if she chooses to abort?

reply from: nancyu

http://www.babycenter.com
Your sister has a little person living and growing inside her, how wonderful! Congrats and best wishes.
She might like this website. It has photos of different stages of development of the child in the womb. And lots of other helpful info about labor & delivery, etc.

reply from: churchmouse

kero tell your sister that the heart started beating at around 20 days. That brain waves can also be detected.

reply from: nancyu

The Blanket Makers's Prayer
by Betty Baker Bailey
Oh, Lord, I've thread and needle -
A design within my heart;
But for this to be a victory
You, Your blessings must impart.
I'll work the long, hard hours
Making every stitch just so
If You will grant my desire,
A live baby it will know.
Yellow, pink and baby blue
Are the colors in my hand.
As I make this special blanket,
I take a solemn stand.
I'll work to save the children
Spreading Your truth as I go;
Though they are to us invisible
Each one of them You know.
So, make this blanket special
To catch a mother's eye
So that she'll love her baby.
So that it will not die.
It's with great expectation
In Your fields this seed I plant
Knowing that by faith
You, my prayer of life will grant.
http://www.children-of-the-heart.net/blanket-makers.shtml

reply from: carolemarie

Why don't you give her a present.
Buy some baby clothes, blankets, a baby book, gifts for her as well, like lotion and nail polish, and put it in a bag with a bow, take her out to eat and give it to her.
Tell her you love her and the baby both and that you want to help and do something nice for them both. Tell her she will be a great mom.
The reason I am saying this is because people have clothes and things. It is a tangible way of making the child real.
Right now, the pregnancy is a problem and she isn't seeing beyond that.

reply from: Witness

Hi Kero,
I pray your sister is still expecting.
I am one of those who stand the guard outside Tiller's mill. My work has led me to develop a website, http://www.children-of-the-heart.net. On it are several pages that may be of help to you. In particular, you may want to print such pages as "In the Womb", "Discussion", and "Complications". "Biblical Facts" presents the reality that the Bible does indeed cover and disprove of abortion. I did not have time to read all the posts. So, I don't really know if that would help you. The poem, "Little Innocents" may also be of use. It has, in fact, moved many away from a pro-choice stance. You are welcome to all of these resources.
In addition, I would be happy to print and snail mail you copies of some of the artwork you will find posted there. Understand, these would not be poster quality. I just don't have the resources for that. It would just be color prints. They might just give you the edge you need.
Further, I can make her a baby blanket. She can even pick the color.
These precious children deserve our very best effort. Just let me know, if I can be of assistance.
I'll check back later.
God bless.

reply from: yoda

Welcome to the forum, Witness. And thank you for being a witness outside the infamous death factory in Wichita. Hopefully, the overlord of that place of horrors will soon have a cell number instead of a phone number.

reply from: churchmouse

Welcome Witness.
I think your site is wonderful.........but none of the pictures came up. They were just boxes with a red x on them.
What can I do to see what you are selling?

reply from: Kero

That is an amazing idea, I'll do exactly that!
I'm experiencing the same problem as Churchmouse, Witness.
I would request a blanket, but I'm not comfortable giving specifics of my whereabouts out to anyone. But I think I'll ask our mother or grandmother is she could...

reply from: Witness

Thank you. I'm definitely ready for this nightmare to end.

reply from: nancyu

Welcome Witness. I found your website yesterday. Are you the author of the above poem? It is beautiful. I like to crochet, and used to crochet a blanket whenever a baby was due in the family. I think it is a great idea to include that poem with baby blankets to give to women contemplating abortion.
Kero, Carole's idea is a good one, too. When you start getting the dreams in your head and heart of your little one wrapped in a soft blanket, I can't imagine that dream not overpowering any thoughts of aborting.
Churchmouse, at the top of your browser click on "tools", and "options". A box should pop up with some tabs. With mine if I click the tab for "content" there is a checkbox that says "load images automatically." I'm not sure if yours is the same as mine, but I hope this will help you to see the pictures.
If you need more help let me know, I will help if I can.

reply from: Witness

Sorry, evidently I still have a lot to learn . . . My last post was to Yodavater.
To Churchmouse & Kero regarding the pics, I don't know why you can't see them. I'll go check it out and get back to you.
To Churchmouse, if you're really interested, I am just days away from sending out brochures of my pro-life line of greeting cards. It uses quite a few of the pics. If you'd like a copy, let me know.
As far as the blanket goes, Kero, I think asking your family is a splendid idea.

reply from: nancyu

Oops, churchmouse, I guess I'm not much help because I can't view the pictures either.

reply from: Witness

Thank you, Nancyu. Yes, the above poem is one of mine. I'm glad you like it.
If you ever get the urge to crochet for the effort just let me know. We used to get blankets from all over the country. We've given out close to a thousand over the years.

reply from: Witness

I'll go see what's up with the pics, now.

reply from: Witness

Sorry, I'm not sure what the pic problem is. They show fine for me. I'll ask my site admin, but it'll probably be tomorrow before she responds. You may be able to view some of the pieces on display at http://www.operationrescue.org/. They have a piece on my art on their front page blog and a link to the work from there. Sorry, for the inconvenience.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

First he'll have to get past the "my sister is a little whore" thinking.
And somehow I think that if he follows your advice, it may send her straight to the clinic. Not all women are thrilled by baby stuff - some are terrified and repelled. If she has already had one abortion, she knows it's so much easier than birthing and (potentially) raising a child.
Give her love, but skip the baby gifts. Maybe something nice for HER, but no baby items. I can virtually guarantee she'll have the abortion if he does that. She is obviously VERY uncomfortable with even being PREGNANT, let alone having a baby and using blankets. Some women just do not have that maternal urge.
But, definitely, get over the "little whore" mindset.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.children-of-the-heart.net/index.shtml
You should be able to see the pictures if you click on this link. Your artwork is excellent.

reply from: yoda

They all loaded for me except the first one on the second row, I think it was titled "Alex".

reply from: Kero

All I can hear when I read your posts is whining. Kinda sounds like a sheep. 'BAAAAAAAAAAW.'
Who called you a whore so often when you were young that offends you? heh. Would you amuse you to know my sister happily calls herself a whore? See, we my parents house has very thin walls. Before I moved out two years ago, I could always hear the things she'd say to the men she'd have in and out of her room.
She would beg for that name.
At 17. Interesting, isn't it?
BUT ALL THAT ASIDE the dinner is set for Friday, at my house. I'll be cooking my very best take out Chinese.
Tomorrow my wife is going to pick out the things for my sister, since I can't ever think of gifts for adult persons, especially not those for which I wish to find something they would enjoy.
I'm going to go alone to choose things for her baby, since my wife is still slightly depressed from her miscarriage in April. (I don't think she'll ever truly 'get over it', but when our latest attempts to conceive succeed, I should hope she will be able to see baby products without feeling miserable) I'll be looking for gender neutral colours.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

All I hear when I read YOUR posts is the late Ann Landers saying, "Mind Your Own Business." I bet your sister hates you. I bet she hates men because of you.
Good luck with the dinner. I'm sure the gifts will anger your sister and send your wife into a fit of depression.
BTW, I am truly sorry for your wife's unfortunate miscarriage, because I believe that wanted children are extra precious. Hopefully you can used the baby items that your sister refuses when you and your wife are able to have a child.

reply from: Agape

Hey Kero, did you consider offering to adopt? Presents are a nice idea, but how much of an impact will they be on someone looking to have a child forever?
All this talk about who or what is a whore...I'm pretty sure whores make money!

reply from: RiverMoonLady

P.S. Has your sister been treated or tested for mental illness, such as depression or bipolar disorder? At 17, she is acting out some kind of anger/rage and it sounds like a depressive disorder to me.
If you truly love her, try to get her some help. I suspect she has an underlying disorder that has been undiagnosed and untreated. The hormone imbalance from her pregnancy would make her even worse. I say this as someone who has had bipolar disorder since adolescence and never had it diagnosed until I was 30. I am worried about her and you should be, too.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Yes, I did contradict myself by saying MYOB and then suggesting that you try to get her tested for depressive disorders. That's because it only occurred to me after the MYOB posting that there may be something more to her than you see.
So, forgive the sarcasm and please help your sister with more than just this pregnancy. If she has a mental disorder and goes ahead with the pregnancy, the baby may be in danger during pregnancy AND especially after birth.
Postpartum depression occurs even in normal women, but it's especially dangerous for women with other mental problems - like Andrea Yates.

reply from: Kero

Right, RML, my sister hates me. That is why she spent Christmas at my house last year. That is why my wife and I vacationed with her in June, isn't it? She knows I don't approve of her ways. She has called me horrible things to, due to things I find personally acceptable.
Like, for example, when our cat was declawed she told me I was 'the scum of the earth and deserve castration'
I love her, and protect her from everything. People disagree on things, and they still love eachother.
Were you tossed out of your fathers home for whoring, RML?
Also, Agape, due to the existence of slang, and the complexity of the English language, 'whore' is often used to mean 'promiscuous'

reply from: Kero

My parents have been through that, RML, took her for therapy at 17, interestingly enough.
And she's as healthy as can be.

reply from: Agape

Not sure you saw my question.

reply from: Kero

Oh sorry, Iforgot to answer.
I already said earlier on that I tried, and she refused, since she's a bit afraid of birthing it.

reply from: Agape

That's rough, I hope you keep trying. She sounds like she needs alot of help. Or maybe she has picked up on what you think of her and is resistant. It's possible?

reply from: faithman

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg

reply from: Kero

that is such a good pic, faithman.

reply from: churchmouse

Thanks nancy........but i still cant get them darn it all...........

reply from: Jameberlin

Kero, this might not be true. The ineptitude of therapists these days is astounding. Mine failed to be able to offer me an adequate diagnosis recently, citing my faith as the reason for my guilt and the decision to keep my child the reason for my depression. She said it was my family that was warped, not me. How silly, when all it was, was PPD and my father's cancer diagnosis.
It really sounds like your sister suffers from low self-esteem, which our culture teaches girls to make up for by being promiscuous.
If she's afraid of pregnancy or delivery, assure her there are wonderful medications and treatments that make both incredibly comfortable and in no way harm the baby.
I hope you're able to convince your sister to save the life of her baby. I wish you the best of luck, and my prayers are with you.
I'm terribly sorry for your wife's miscarriage, i hope you two are able to conceive and bear a healthy child soon.

reply from: Jameberlin

I agree - talk about animal cruelty, that is disgusting.
How would you like to have your nails removed!
I would argue, that it's also not very pleasant to have your limbs ripped from your body.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.children-of-the-heart.net/index.shtml

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Sorry, Kero, what you think of me is so far off it's hilarious.
I lived with my (married) parents until I was 18 and had graduated from high school with honors, got a good job, left home of my own accord, was never a "whore", have been married to the same man who is the father of both of our children for over 30 years and am a middle-aged woman. I come from a very conservative, religious Protestant upbringing and was saved and baptized as a teenager.
I also have a brother and sister, both married with 2 children each and the strangest thing they ever did was that both married Catholics without converting. My brother's children are being raised as Catholics but my sister's husband made no such demand, being that he is not nuch of a practicing Catholic.
My parents were married after my mom graduated from nursing school and stayed married until my father's untimely death from cancer at age 49. My mom is now 75 and has never even DATED another man. No divorces, no arguments, no abuse, just a PERFECT 1950's-1960s family. I was taught the value of faith, hard work and family.
Pretty normal family, wouldn't you say?
Done with the personal attacks now??
Just curious - why did your parents allow your teenage sister to have men in her bedroom? I was never allowed to have boys past the living room, and most certainly not in my bedroom. I wish you luck with your dinner, but your sister sounds like she has more problems than just her pregnancy. I like the idea another poster had of you and your wife offering to adopt her child. Would you do that? It's not uncommon and might be right for everyone concerned.

reply from: churchmouse

LOL
I couldnt have boys in the house unless my parents were home. And then when they came in we were allowed to stay in the kitchen, den, and rec room.......ALL DOORS OPEN.
When I got engaged to my husband now of 28 years (I am 53 years old) we certainly did not shack up in either of our parents homes.
Gosh I had a great childhood. I remember when my mom gave me the sex talk in 5th grade. She rented a projector (remember those metal projectors? lol) and she showed me slides sitting on our bathroom floor in the dark. I cried after it was over and said, I WILL NEVER GET A PERIOD, NEVER. Less than a month later I got one. ha ha
God showed me didnt he?

reply from: faithman

http://www.lifenews.com/int846.html

reply from: RiverMoonLady

LOL
I couldnt have boys in the house unless my parents were home. And then when they came in we were allowed to stay in the kitchen, den, and rec room.......ALL DOORS OPEN.
When I got engaged to my husband now of 28 years (I am 53 years old) we certainly did not shack up in either of our parents homes.
Gosh I had a great childhood. I remember when my mom gave me the sex talk in 5th grade. She rented a projector (remember those metal projectors? lol) and she showed me slides sitting on our bathroom floor in the dark. I cried after it was over and said, I WILL NEVER GET A PERIOD, NEVER. Less than a month later I got one. ha ha
God showed me didnt he?
Churchmouse, you gave me a great laugh. I vividly remember my mom giving me the little booklet from Kotex, making me read it, and asking if I had any questions. I was horrified!! I had NO idea I would be bleeding for half my life and was scared to death.
It sounds like our parents had the same methods of parenting. I remember being at least 17 and having a male friend drop in to see me during the summer. My mom "invited" him to sit down and help us shell peas! He did, and passed her test with flying colors. And by God, no boy ever got anywhere NEAR my bedroom, and I was rarely left home alone - usually had my brother and sister there, too. I wasn't even allowed to date (even in groups) until I was 16. I never told her that on our church's youth groups hayrides and night time activities, people were making out - I was afraid she would make me name names and tell their parents.
I also had a curfew that was earlier than most of my friends and my mom would check up on school activities to make sure I was really there. She caught me holding hands with a boy at a basketball game and literally pulled me out of the gym. Oh, dear, how embarrassing!!
But I'll tell you what, I had the BEST childhood one could have and my parents were phenomonal. The 50s and 60s may seem corny and quaint to today's kids, but we were brought up right with good values that never let us down.
A big hug to you for a much-needed laugh, Ms. Mouse!

reply from: churchmouse

Yes, remember the box filled with feminine stuff from Kotex.
You could use those pads as floation devices today. LOL
I was horrified too. I wasnt scared I was ticked off. I think God gave us the worse punishment if you ask me. LOL

"It sounds like our parents had the same methods of parenting. I remember being at least 17 and having a male friend drop in to see me during the summer. My mom "invited" him to sit down and help us shell peas! He did, and passed her test with flying colors. And by God, no boy ever got anywhere NEAR my bedroom, and I was rarely left home alone - usually had my brother and sister there, too. I wasn't even allowed to date (even in groups) until I was 16. I never told her that on our church's youth groups hayrides and night time activities, people were making out - I was afraid she would make me name names and tell their parents."
Very very similar. I remember that drive in movies were all the rage. I was forbidden to do. But I stayed overnight with a friend and she was allowed to go. I knew it was wrong.....but her parents knew where she was. I remember sittin on the back flap of a van watching the movie and seeing my mom calling my name walking up and down the rows. LOL Of course she found me and I got grounded for years......I think until I got married at 25. LOL
Remember those decked out vans with the shag carpet.
Mine was 11:30 until I graduated. Then 12:30 through college.
Me too. my parents were fabulous and treated my two sisters and I equally. It really was a storybook childhood. I could cry.
I know you will remember these.......
Captain Kangaroo and Mr. Greenjeans before school in the morning
Lassie on Sunday nights
Tarzan and Shirley Temple after church on Sunday morning
Hot pants
Go Go boots
elephant bottom jeans
Bonnie Bell make UP
Dark Shadows and Lost in Space after school
Bobby Sherman !!!!!!!
My Three Sons, Gomer Pyle and Sgt Carter who I still adore to this day. LOL
Waiting once a year for The Wizard of Oz to come on.
Those yellow rubber rain jackets
Penny loafers and saddle shoes..........
We were also forced as kids to watch.............The Lawrence Welk show. LOL I used to think the girls on there had the most beautiful hair and dresses. I wanted to be them LOL
Now the girls want to look like Paris and Pamela Anderson. There were no thongs in our day thats for sure.
WE HAD IT GREAT DIDNT WE?
Thanks for sharing. I'm gonna go cry now.

reply from: KaylieBee

Lassie wishes she were The Littlest Hobo.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Churchmouse, it darn near makes me cry, too. I remember everything you listed - but I was scared to death of "The Wizard of Oz" - those flying monkey things! I STILL won't watch the movie.
Things were so innocent back then. Nowadays, little girls dress like miniature hookers, are exposed to too many things at too early an age and must be horribly confused. This country would be better if more people, especially the young, learned the values that we were taught as children.
Remember being allowed to run around outside without worrying about "stranger danger?" And only watching TV for special occasions? No video games, cellphones or other "inactivities" - and VERY few obese kids. I was allowed to ride my bicycle for miles, go out into the woods and fields for hours and basically do whatever I wanted - as long as I came home when my mom rang her big bell for dinner.
Life was lovely but those days are gone. I can only hope that someday the cycles of life go around enough to return to simpler, slower, happier times.
God bless you, Ms. Mouse, for the fine memories. I am almost in tears!

reply from: churchmouse

The Wizard of Oz has it all........fantasy, suspense, song, dance.......no profanity, lude acts. It's my favorite. The monkeys are adorable......
We ran all over the neighborhood and my mom rang a loud bell too when dinne was ready. LOL
Are you my sister by any chance?
ha ha

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I do have a sister - if you are 39, married with a son and daughter - and live in PA Dutch County, then you are her.
Otherwise, we are just soul sisters, which is fine with me!
Did you see that "maxi-skirts" are back in style? I'm ready to raid my mom's storage areas so that I can sell all my high school clothing as "vintage" stuff!
I was NEVER allowed to wear hot pants, go-go boots or anything very short or transparent. Mother and I fought over skirt length, so I would stop in the trees on my walk to the bus stop and roll up my skirt at the waist. Instant mini! Also I put on makeup during that stop. On the way home, the makeup came off and the skirt went back down. My brother, bless his heart, never ratted me out!

reply from: KaylieBee

Please actually did that? How did you do it without adding width to your waist?

reply from: galen

i remember doing the same thing to my pleated skirt in Catholic HS...
Kaylie, if you are a girl blessed with a tiny waist to begin with its not hard to do a roll with a skirt a few times and get rid of a few inches.. especially if the material is thin to begin with...

reply from: KaylieBee

But it doesn't make an awkward bump?
All the pleated skirts from my schoolgirl costumes were already short, but if I had rolled them up it would have looked like I was wearing a flotation device under my shirt...

reply from: galen

nope no real bump if done correctly... also.. remember that in the early eighties ( gee now i've dated myself a bit) polo style shirts were common for uniforms.. the baggier ones hid the roll.

reply from: Jameberlin

The good schools still make you wear them... I love my old school shirts.
I still have my skirt, for sentimental reasons, i guess? It goes below my knees, we rolled them too.

reply from: churchmouse

LOL
I wasnt allowed to wear them either.......but my friend would bring an extra one to school and I would change. LOL
I did have a pair of chin-dig boots......white.
Yea I remember maxi skirts.......man oh man. Also fish net stockings (lime green, hot pink, orange orange).......we wore garter belts to hold them up. Yuk Didnt get pantie hose until high school.
Did you have the Service Squad at school? If you did remember the arm bands?
I grew up in southern Michigan near Ann ARbor.
My dad hated make up and if he saw us even with lip gloss he would humiliate us.
I hid that too.
I had two sisters that were doing the same thing. You had a WONDERFUL BROTHER.
How old are you? I am 52 and graduated from High School in 1974/College in 1978.
Did you ever get your hair FROSTED? lol
We wore kilts......plaid ones with a big safety pin thing to hold it together. My hem I am sure was never even.

reply from: galen

my parents donated mine to a used uniform shop... that way if anyone could not afford them ( on scholarship and such ) they could have mine at no cost.

reply from: KaylieBee

I should buy a legit, vintage uniform...

reply from: ChristianLott2

if she has seen the abortion pictures:
http://www.priestsforlife.org/images/index.htm
.....
There are videos on that site as well. It's all extremely horrible.
here is a REAL abortion recorded:
http://www.silentscream.org/
important pictures:
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/fetaldevelopment.htm
pictures which most affected me
3 and a half months:
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/fig18baby3.5mos.jpg
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/fig19baby3.5mos.jpg
there is a chance she will become barren.
she will have a greater risk of breast cancer and miscarriage on subsequent pregnancies.
above all, she already HAS a child. you can't erase a baby that's already there. an abortion will haunt you for the rest of your life and into the next one.
my own children were murdered. when the abortionist was suctioning those 3.5 month old babies of ours out he told her there was more than one.
she said it hurt and he said 'it's what you wanted!'
http://abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both.asp
this is a very important book!
at least scroll down and read the index and topics. this is the pro life bible.
most women regret abortion. that's because they finally realize they've just MURDERED their own child!
there is only one RIGHT and GOOD choice - the choice NOT TO MURDER YOUR OWN CHILD.
index of book i just linked you to:
CONTENTS
PREFACE
PART I - INTRODUCTION
Chapter
1 - The Situation
2 - The Three Questions
3 - How To Teach The Pro-Life Story.
4 - Discrimination
5 - Something Old, Something New
PART II - THE LAW
Chapter
6 - Two Infamous Days in the U.S.A.
7 - Legal Pre-Roe
8 - Post Roe Vs. Wade
9 - Health
PART III - HUMAN LIFE
Chapter
10 - Human Life?
11 - The Human Embryo
12 - Fetal Development
13 - Viability
14 - Fetal Pain
15 - In Vitro Fertilization
16 - Embryo/Fetal Experimentation
PART IV - ABORTION
Chapter
17 - How Many?
18 - What Kind and How?
19 - Very Early Abortions
20 - Maternal Complications/Immediate.
21 - Maternal Deaths & Long-Term Complications.
22 - Neonatal & Childhood Sequelae
23 - Breast Cancer
PART V - INFANTICIDE & EUTHANASIA
Chapter
24 - Fetal Handicap and Infanticide
25 - Euthanasia
PART VI - SOCIAL QUESTIONS
Chapter
26 - Choice?
27 - Illegal Abortions
28 - Parental Notification/Becky Bell
29 - Rape
30 - Impose Morality?.
31 - Unwanted
32 - The West Is Dying?
PART VII - ALTERNATIVES
Chapter
33 - Women Helping Centers
34 - Adoption
35 - Contraception
36 - Violence? Or A Protective Ring
PART VIII - OTHER THOUGHTS
Chapter
37 - Doctors & Nurses
38 - Words
39 - Polls
40 - The Media
41 - Capital Punishment/War
42 - Pro-Abortion Organizations/Planned Parenthood
43 - Tax-Funded Abortions
PART IX - WHAT TO DO
Chapter
44 - What To Do
http://abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both.asp
very important.
there are literally thousands of good, sound medical and moral reasons NOT to have an abortion.
99.9% of the time there's just one reason TO have an abortion - selfishness and self hatred.
live abortion video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmmzc9kEcOc&feature=related
find the adoptive parents in your state:
http://www.parentprofiles.com/

reply from: ChristianLott2

http://www.afterabortion.org/news/suicide205.html
please read this:
http://abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_21.asp

reply from: carolemarie

What happen with your sister ? How did dinner go?

reply from: Kero

It went amazing well, CM, despite how much some of these users acted like they wanted it to fail.
She is, thank God, reconsidering.
However, she finally opened her mouth about who the father is. He's twice her age, and a man I thought I could trust. I'm going to have to see his face again when I go into work tomorrow, and know what he did to my sister.
He's married, and he's scared that his wife will discover his adulterous ways.

reply from: Jameberlin

This man needs to own up to his responsibility of his unborn child. It's disgusting, to kill a child so you may continue to betray your wife.
I feel terrible for his wife, because her world will most likely completely collapse due to her husband's infidelity.
I'm really glad your sister is reconsidering, i hope she realizes that bringing her child into the world will bring many more people joy than it would pain.
I hope for your sister's sake she discontinues her relationship with this man, since he obviously has little respect for women, and even less for innocent life.

reply from: carolemarie

That is great! I am glad she is reconsidering.

reply from: galen

good to see some progress being made.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

Oh, mercy, I had one of those ugly kilts with the ugly pin. I haven't worn a plaid skirt since. Fashion was so wide open back in those days that I also wore my mother's old clothes from when SHE was in high school (hey, vintage is ALWAYS in style.)
I'm 52 and graduated HS in 1974. Never had my hair frosted, but Sun-In was big back in the early 70s, so I had brown hair with weird blond streaks for a while. I've also had it highlighted a number of times as an adult. I have pretty plain brown hair, so I amuse myself by coloring it various shades of auburn and brown.
We had no "Service Squad" - just the AAA "safety patrol" kids with the belt and badge. I remember being upset when I wasn't chosen as one in elementary school, lol.

reply from: churchmouse

I am 53 as well and graduated in 1974. It seems forever ago wow.
Shoot I remember Sun-in. But we frosted our hair and looked like tigers.
Remember mixing iodine with baby oil? LOL
I wore pink Bonnie Bell lip stick. And to be cool we wore our sweaters backwards like they did in our moms day.
Did you wear fish nets?
Did your mom dress you up for Easter in a brand new dress, anklets and white GLOVES? Oh and hat with flowers on it too?
Now I loved Bobby Sherman, Micahel Landon and Grant Goodeve. Who were you in love with? ha ha

reply from: churchmouse

LOL No I am 52 will be 53. I'm getting old. LOL

reply from: Kero

I've been incredibly busy these past few days, but I have discovered more about the father of my sisters child. For one this, his wife is only 23 and they have a four year old daughter. Initially, my sister didn't want to tell his wife about his adultery because she didn't want to wreck the little girls life by taking her father away. She didn't see how it was his fault.
Apparently she isn't normally interested in men his age, but he seduced her with gifts of clothes and a bit of alcohol. His wife now knows everything, and he's taken up residence in a hotel, from what I hear from others at work. He now refuses any attempt at contact my sister makes.
However, she remains undecided, and her appointment creeps ever nearer.
Finally, I've just learned my wife had conceived!! She's six weeks at the moment. I'm thinking of appealing to my sister by allowing her to imagine what it would be like to raise the two side my side, almost like twins.

reply from: Jameberlin

Kero, I am so happy for you and your wife! Congratulations!!
You may be able to tell your sister that i too was considering abortion when my sister and i conceived only two weeks apart. One of the biggest considerations for me was how i could possibly live with myself looking at my sister's new baby and knowing mine would have been exactly that age... Her child would have been a constant reminder of what i had killed.
Focus on the wonderful aspects of being pregnant at the same time as your wife, your children will be able to grow and love and laugh and learn together.
My son and his cousin just celebrated their 1st birthdays, they're both sweet, adorable, wonderful children and i would NEVER have been as happy as i am now had i aborted.
I hope your sister sees this as a blessing and a sign that her child was meant to be.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

I sincerely hope that this pregnancy works out well for the two of you (because of the history of miscarriages.)
As for your sister, I hope you can live with whatever she decides.

reply from: sweet

PRAY for her and LOVE her in spite of it ALL. love her when she is Wrong. Love her when she is WEAK. Love her when she is ANGRY, SAD, or MAD.
and yes, LOVE her when she is a Whore.
(don't only LOVE her when she is perfect!)
"...beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things..."(ICorinthians 13)

reply from: Agape

Congratulations! I hope you have a safe and happy pregnancy.


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