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UNBORN CHILD KILLED BY ABORTION - BOTH PARENTS WANTED THE BABY.

from The KANSAS COALITION FOR LIFE

by: yoda

I am sending you a copy of our latest Incident Report. Please share this with every one you know.
Mark S. Gietzen http://www.kcfl.net [/a]
The KANSAS COALITION FOR LIFE, Project Love, Prayer, and Persistent Political Action 5575 South Mosley Street, Wichita, KS 67216-3631 PHONE: (316) 522-8866 FAX: (316) 522-8833

INCIDENT REPORT: Jennifer (Sperle) McCoy III Wednesday, July 16, 2008

Shift Start:
Shift End:

3:00 PM
5:00 PM

UNBORN CHILD KILLED BY ABORTION - BOTH PARENTS WANTED THE BABY.
Reported by: Jennifer McCoy, Mary LaFrancis, and Diana D'Amato:
A sixteen year old girl from Andover, Kansas, was bought into Tiller's today by her mother, in a car with Butler County, Kansas tags at about 11:am.
The girl was two months pregnant, and the mother (grandmother) had scheduled an early-term abortion for her daughter. The teenaged daughter did not want the abortion, but her mother was forcing her into it.
(KCFL did not receive actionable evidence that the daughter was being forced to have this abortion, until after the unborn child was killed.)
In the early afternoon, in a separate vehicle, the father of the child, a young man named Dillon, also sixteen years old, came into Tiller's parking lot, driving a car with a personalized tag, (tag information is on file) in an attempt to save the life of his child.
Dillon came to the gate to get help and advice from the proLife counselors on-site. He told Jennifer that his parents were willing to raise the baby, or adopt the baby, or do whatever they could to help him and his girlfriend. Dillon said that he planned to marry the mother of his baby, as soon as they graduated from high school, and that his parents were supportive of this idea.
Dillon said that it was only his girlfriend's mother who wanted her to have the abortion, and that she had threatened to disown his girlfriend if she did not go through with the abortion.
Jennifer sent the boy into Tiller's to talk to the girl, to let her know, that all she had to do, was to say that she did not want to have the abortion, and at that point, KCFL could call the police, and that the Police would intervene on her behalf.
However, about thirty minutes after going into Tiller's building, both the mother and daughter, and Dillon came to the gate, leaving Tiller's parking lot in their cars. The young girl was crying, but the mother who was driving did not stop at the gate.
Dillon stopped at the gate and he was crying too. He said that he had gotten there just a few minutes too late. The baby was already dead when they finally let him talk to his girlfriend.
Dillon went from crying to sobbing as he talked to Mary LaFrancis at the gate. Dillon has asked KCFL to dedicate one of the Crosses on-site to his baby, as a memorial.
We will do so, when he gets back to us with the name of the baby.
The situation was upsetting to all the KCFL volunteers on-site all afternoon. There were tears and prayers all afternoon, because of the mean-spiritedness of this abortion.
Unfortunately, in the past KCFL volunteers have witnessed similar variations of this story, at least four times since starting the continuous presence on Mother's Day, 2004.. It is not an uncommon scenario, and most young girls simply do not know their rights in this regard.

reply from: nancyu

This is so, so unbelievably sad. Please God, make this stop.

reply from: yoda

No. Because NO ONE should be able to FORCE anyone to have an abortion (kill an innocent child).
But ANYONE should be able to DEFEND THE LIFE of an innocent human being, anytime, anywhere.
So yes, we CAN "have it both ways".

reply from: sander

No. Because NO ONE should be able to FORCE anyone to have an abortion (kill an innocent child).
But ANYONE should be able to DEFEND THE LIFE of an innocent human being, anytime, anywhere.
So yes, we CAN "have it both ways".
This is what 36 years of de-humanizing the child in the womb has produced! Someone who can actually say, without even a hic-cup, parents should be able to FORCE their child to kill their own grandchild!
Oh my....and people like this roam the streets at will....God help us.

reply from: RiverMoonLady

This situation is horrible. How can a parent FORCE a daughter to have an abortion against her will? It's completely wrong and the mother will pay for it - her daughter will probably hate her for the rest of her life.

reply from: faithman

Happens all the time at Planned Parenthood.

reply from: QueenJ

No. Because NO ONE should be able to FORCE anyone to have an abortion (kill an innocent child).
But ANYONE should be able to DEFEND THE LIFE of an innocent human being, anytime, anywhere.
So yes, we CAN "have it both ways".
This is what 36 years of de-humanizing the child in the womb has produced! Someone who can actually say, without even a hic-cup, parents should be able to FORCE their child to kill their own grandchild!
Oh my....and people like this roam the streets at will....God help us.
Your reading comprehension fails you miserably here. Although, your time in the pro-life movement has taught you well how to dissect a person's statement and present a part as the whole in order to advance your agenda, as well as cast an unsavory glow on that person.
spinwiddy's ENTIRE comment is as follows:
That is wrong on so many levels, but it brings up a valid argument.
If you can pass a "parental consent" law that would define when a parent could deny their underage daughter an abortion and force her to carry a full-term pregnancy and endure gestation, labor and delivery, then shouldn't a parent also get to decide when their underage daughter should be forced to have an abortion?
You can't have it both ways.
Either the parents should have ALL the pover to decide the fate of their daughter's pregnancy, or the decision should be left up to the pregnant girl.
She made no claim whatsoever that parents should be able to force their children to have abortions. She posed a very logical argument - one which you blindly ignored in your haste to appear righteously indignant and superior.
In all honesty, was this a deliberate attempt at demonizing spinwiddy into the person who would like to see parents force their children to have abortions? Or do you really have limited skills in reading comprehension that impair in such a severe manner that you are unable to visually and cognitively recognize ALL the words in her statement?

reply from: QueenJ

Care to back that up with, oh I don't know, facts? If this is the first time you're hearing of the term "facts," I'll gladly let you know what it means.

reply from: yoda

Who are you going to get to finish that question?
I answered fully to the question as asked, you just don't like my answer.

reply from: QueenJ

Who are you going to get to finish that question?
I answered fully to the question as asked, you just don't like my answer.
Uh ... what? I wasn't even talking to you? I responding to sander's comment.

reply from: yoda

Regardless of whom you were talking to, I did answer the question, did I not?
And sander simply agreed with my answer, and expanded on it.
So what's your problem?

reply from: faithman

Trying being a pro-death skanc for starters. I am sure the probs pile up pretty quick after that.

reply from: QueenJ

You don't see it? You really don't? How sander took only the parts of spinwiddy's statement necessary for his/her intentions, disregarded the rest, and presented this now part of a statement without its surrounding and necessary (for full understanding) context as fact? Then had the audacity to tut tut at spinwiddy's imagined evil ways?
Seriously?

reply from: yoda

She did none of that. She made a side comment TO ME, period.

reply from: KaylieBee

Good. I don't know one teenage mom who is a decent parent.

reply from: sander

So, Spinwad, what's your point?
All teenager girls should abort their babies? Not enough killed everyday for you and your idiot side kick, kaysomething?
What is it going to take to satisfy your blood lust, 5 thousand, 6 thousand, how about 10,000 dead children in the womb every day? Would that be enough?
You think you changed one single pro-life person here with your doom and gloom crap? You are highly offensive.

reply from: sander

LOL!
You have to laugh!
Have to admit, it's rather entertaining to see these proaborts try and make things up to argue over....they never seem to tire of making themselves look like an ass.

reply from: sander

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are offended by facts?
Real life must be quite a challenge for you...
YOU are offensive....nice try at trying to deflect that one, but no go.

reply from: yoda

How many do you know? How about those who give their child up for adoption, are they "decent parents"?
Teens can't do many things well, except get "into trouble". But they can avoid becoming killers of their own children.

reply from: yoda

You think "doom and gloom crap" means "facts"?
No wonder you stay confused all the time...........

reply from: yoda

In an amoral, or immoral society, perhaps. In a society that places a value on innocent human life, it is not.
We know where you stand on that.

reply from: sander

You don't see it? You really don't? How sander took only the parts of spinwiddy's statement necessary for his/her intentions, disregarded the rest, and presented this now part of a statement without its surrounding and necessary (for full understanding) context as fact? Then had the audacity to tut tut at spinwiddy's imagined evil ways.
Seriously?
LOL. A case of 'the blind leading the blind', I'm afraid.
You know, you really shouldn't spout off just so you can read something you've written.
There's NOTHING blind about either Yoda or I....what the hell is the matter with you and queenie....I'm just going to have to think of you two as dumb and dumber, you both leave me no chioce.
And what are you doing here in the first place, haven't you found anything constructive to do yet? You must not be looking very hard.
P/S, would you please learn how to use the quote function and if you can't learn that, then at least use the backspace key, you take up entirely too much room on these boards for sheer laziness, or is that sheer, too stupid to learn how to properly post?

reply from: sander

Can you at least stop being lazy or stupid? Which ever one is stopping you from taking up so much room on the boards.

reply from: sander

Fine, just use the quote function or the backspace key....laugh away if it'll get you to post properly.

reply from: KaylieBee

How many do you know? How about those who give their child up for adoption, are they "decent parents"?
Teens can't do many things well, except get "into trouble". But they can avoid becoming killers of their own children.
Being a biological parent is not the same as parenting.
A woman gave give birth to twenty kids, and put them all up for adoption. She would never be a real mom.

reply from: QueenJ

No. Because NO ONE should be able to FORCE anyone to have an abortion (kill an innocent child).
But ANYONE should be able to DEFEND THE LIFE of an innocent human being, anytime, anywhere.
So yes, we CAN "have it both ways".
This is what 36 years of de-humanizing the child in the womb has produced! Someone who can actually say, without even a hic-cup, parents should be able to FORCE their child to kill their own grandchild!
Oh my....and people like this roam the streets at will....God help us.
Sander, who then were you referring to when you said, "Someone who can actually say, without even a hic-cup, parents should be able to FORCE their child to kill their own grandchild!,"?
Who is this someone and when did they say this?

reply from: QueenJ

Also: You'll find that sane, true pro-choicers find that forced abortion is just as deplorable and unjust as forced pregnancy. Much to your dismay (I'm sure), we have more than the word "abortion" in our vocabulary. Amazing, isn't it?

reply from: yoda

Worth repeating, even if she is too lazy and stupid to read it.

reply from: yoda

There is no such thing as a "real mom". Every woman who becomes pregnant is a mother, period.

reply from: yoda

Actually, I wasn't sure if that word was even IN your vocabulary, you seem to avoid it like the plague in favor of one of your countless euphemisms....

reply from: QueenJ

And one last thing I forgot to include in my last comment: I'm totally and completely uncomfortable with the judgement and stereotypes of teen mothers/parents being thrown around here. While there most definitely are many cases of teen mothers/parents who are unfit to care for the children they produce, there are also MANY cases of teen mothers/parents who do a GREAT job of taking care of and raising their children. Also, unfit parenting is not exclusive to ANY age group. Unfit parents come in all ages.
Pro-choicers shouldn't perpetuate popular myths and stereotypes about teenage mothers/parents. They should support a woman (no matter how old she is) in her desire to parent, as well as her to desire to end her pregnancy.

reply from: QueenJ

Worth repeating, even if she is too lazy and stupid to read it.
When suggesting something, could you learn to be civil and polite instead of inflammatory and offensive or are you too lazy or stupid to dispense with common courtesy when asking things of people?

reply from: yoda

Works for me. I don't personally know any teen Moms, but it stands to reason that a decent, compassionate teen Mom would make a good Mom.
And to me, any Mom who doesn't electively kill her baby IS a good Mom, even if she gives it up for adoption.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

What about adoption? She doesn't HAVE to be a mother. All the family wanted was for the child to not be killed.

reply from: QueenJ

Actually, I wasn't sure if that word was even IN your vocabulary, you seem to avoid it like the plague in favor of one of your countless euphemisms....
My countless euphemisms? Or was that a general "you?"
I have absolutely NO problem whatsoever using the word abortion.

reply from: QueenJ

I've known some very good teenage moms. They all happen to be pro-choice, though. Funny that, eh? They were pro-choice, yet they didn't end their pregnancies! HOW CAN THAT BE?!!?

reply from: yoda

No, not funny at all, in fact. Being prochoice simply means you want abortion to stay legal. So these women are very protective of their own children, yet they want other women to be able to kill theirs. It's just a matter of "mine" versus "yours".
See the difference?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No, not funny at all, in fact. Being prochoice simply means you want abortion to stay legal. So these women are very protective of their own children, yet they want other women to be able to kill theirs. It's just a matter of "mine" versus "yours".
See the difference?
Actually it's just "mine". If you are a woman, you have the choice to do what you want to do with your body. Pro-choicers don't give a damn what YOU do with your body.

reply from: yoda

"To dispense with" means to do away with..... so you want me to do away with common courtesy?
No, I won't do it......

reply from: yoda

Yeah, a general "you".
So, you don't mind the label "proabortion", right?

reply from: yoda

Then why do they make such a fuss about keeping abortion legal for OTHER people, when they don't want to abort theirs?

reply from: ChristianLott2

These people have always been here - protean.
They're like lizards. They don't care for their young or anyone elses.
True objectification of humanity. They make up the horrifying statistics and leave all to follow. It's tragic when the parents are more stupid than their children but I think it's commonplace.
This is a testament to evolution attacked.

reply from: KaylieBee

There is no such thing as a "real mom". Every woman who becomes pregnant is a mother, period.
All right, let me put it this way. I'm going to assume you have or had a decent relationship with your mum. Let's imagine you found out today that you were adopted. Would you consider the woman to be as deserving of your love and respect and the women who raised you from a baby?
Raising a child makes you a parent. Not biology.

reply from: 4given

So you support this woman's forced abortion?

reply from: 4given

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If you check the stats, you find that teen mothers and their offspring are generally DOOOMED:
Egad! Does this mean that we have another supposed "choicer" that supports this young woman's unwanted, coerced and likely forced abortion?
Thanks kids. You help secure the "proabort" label so many deserve.. or do you still want to be called "prochoice"?

reply from: yoda

I wouldn't be able to love and respect her unless I knew her, would I?
Wrong. "Parent" IS a biological term, as well as a term for one who raises a child.
Main Entry: 1 parĀ·ent Function: noun
1 a: one that begets or brings forth offspring b: a person who brings up and cares for another http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parent

reply from: sander

Worth repeating, even if she is too lazy and stupid to read it.
When suggesting something, could you learn to be civil and polite instead of inflammatory and offensive or are you too lazy or stupid to dispense with common courtesy when asking things of people?
Okay, point taken.
I'll try your suggestion.
I most kindly ask, if you would stop supporting and perhaps engaging in the act of abortion, which takes the life of an innocent child in the womb? Pretty please?

reply from: QueenJ

"To dispense with" means to do away with..... so you want me to do away with common courtesy?
No, I won't do it......
But will you dispense common courtesy when asking things of people?
Ah, the subtleties of the English language wherein the addition of one single word can completely change the meaning a writer was intending to convey.
WHERE IS MY PERSONAL ONLINE EDITOR TO CORRECT SUCH MISTAKES AND THOSE OF GRAMMAR AND SPELLING?!? WHERE?!?

reply from: QueenJ

Yeah, a general "you".
So, you don't mind the label "proabortion", right?
As long as it is used in the sense that one supports abortion and abortion rights. NOT in the sense that one supports abortion as the one and only reproductive choice that is acceptable.

reply from: QueenJ

Worth repeating, even if she is too lazy and stupid to read it.
When suggesting something, could you learn to be civil and polite instead of inflammatory and offensive or are you too lazy or stupid to dispense with common courtesy when asking things of people?
Okay, point taken.
I'll try your suggestion.
I most kindly ask, if you would stop supporting and perhaps engaging in the act of abortion, which takes the life of an innocent child in the womb? Pretty please?
Ha! That literally made me LOL.
Although, I do appreciate the kindness and politeness in your question, I will have to decline your request.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Instead of the parent forcing abortion on the girl, let's get the state to intervene on young mothers. spindoctor has the stats, just pass the law and we'll round up all those deviants and abort them - just like Sanger wanted in the first place. Forced abortion and forced sterilization. Yeah!

reply from: nancyu

So you support this woman's forced abortion?
My sister in law was 15 when she became pregnant. My brother married her, that was close to 40 years ago. They had two more children and they now have 6 grandchildren, and for the record they were and still are wonderful parents!
More good news is they were still young when their children grew up and started their own families. Here's another situation where it's all about perspective. Their lives would only have been considered "ruined" by those who wanted to see it that way.

reply from: yoda

Now, if we could just get FMan to talk like that.........

reply from: yoda

As long as doing so does not compromise my loyalty and dedication to the prevention of the slaughter of thousands of innocent unborn babies every day in this country, yes.
Actually, I don't think they make an editor that will do that. It's an error of meaning, not of grammar or spelling, so that requires a "human touch".
But it's quite sporting of you to take it so well, and not try to deny the mistake.

reply from: yoda

As long as it is used in the sense that one supports abortion and abortion rights. NOT in the sense that one supports abortion as the one and only reproductive choice that is acceptable.
Well, that's easy enough.....since the former is the only one in the dictionary, you may logically assume it's meant that way every time.

reply from: yoda

Sorry, sander, it didn't work...... so let's let FMan do it "his way".

reply from: sander

Now, if we could just get FMan to talk like that.........
But, did you notice it didn't make a single difference in Queenie's stance on abortion?
I bet she won't change her mind just because I was nice and respectful. Why, she didn't even have the "courtesy" to reconize I changed my ways at her behest.
So, all her clamouring about being nice is just so much hooey....

reply from: sander

Sorry, sander, it didn't work...... so let's let FMan do it "his way".
I missed her response....but, yeah....no kidding, like being polite to baby killers was going to work. But, it was fun making her look even more foolish in her assertions. Got to take the laughs where you can in this debate.

reply from: QueenJ

As long as it is used in the sense that one supports abortion and abortion rights. NOT in the sense that one supports abortion as the one and only reproductive choice that is acceptable.
Well, that's easy enough.....since the former is the only one in the dictionary, you may logically assume it's meant that way every time.
Well, it would be nice if that were true. But I suspect that many a pro-lifer uses the term in a derogatory manner to insinuate that someone is for abortion and abortion only in all circumstances.
I think that the rejection of the term pro-abortion by pro-choicers is largely in part due to the fact that pro-abortion doesn't convey all that pro-choicers believe in and support (not because they are afraid of abortion or afraid of using the word abortion). To be pro-choice, you must be equally supportive of abortion, adoption, and the decision to parent. To label someone pro-abortion only brings to light that they support abortion and disregards that they also equally support adoption and parenting.
Can you see what I'm saying?

reply from: QueenJ

Now, if we could just get FMan to talk like that.........
But, did you notice it didn't make a single difference in Queenie's stance on abortion?
I bet she won't change her mind just because I was nice and respectful. Why, she didn't even have the "courtesy" to reconize I changed my ways at her behest.
So, all her clamouring about being nice is just so much hooey....
I didn't "have the 'courtesy' to recognize [you] changed [your] ways at [my] behest?"
Really? ...
Worth repeating, even if she is too lazy and stupid to read it.
When suggesting something, could you learn to be civil and polite instead of inflammatory and offensive or are you too lazy or stupid to dispense with common courtesy when asking things of people?
Okay, point taken.
I'll try your suggestion.
I most kindly ask, if you would stop supporting and perhaps engaging in the act of abortion, which takes the life of an innocent child in the womb? Pretty please?
Ha! That literally made me LOL.
Although, I do appreciate the kindness and politeness in your question, I will have to decline your request.

reply from: QueenJ

Sorry, sander, it didn't work...... so let's let FMan do it "his way".
Sorry, Yoda, that won't work either. I, for the most part, skip over any response made by Faithman in a thread.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Then why do they make such a fuss about keeping abortion legal for OTHER people, when they don't want to abort theirs?
Because they believe OTHERS should have the right to do what THEY want to do, and YOU have the right to do what YOU want to do. I've seen it on here and I agree; pro-choice is very me-me-me. Pro-life likes sticking its nose in everyone ELSE's uterus.

reply from: nancyu

Sorry, sander, it didn't work...... so let's let FMan do it "his way".
No one can say you didn't try, Sander.

reply from: yoda

Think about it for a moment. IF some prolifer did have that meaning in mind, s/he would not be very smart to use that term, because that's not what it means. So saying that would not convey their meaning at all.
I think so. You are saying that people can change the meaning of established terms at their whim. You are saying that we can mean one thing and say another. You are saying that dictionaries don't know what they are talking about.
I dispute all those assertions.

reply from: yoda

I know, that wasn't meant as a suggestion of what would "work" for you. It was meant to express the thought that there's no reason to ask someone to change their manner of expression to suit you, so we might as well let everyone express themselves their own way.

reply from: yoda

That doesn't wash with what she said. She said prochoicers don't give a damn what other women do with their children (or words to that effect).
IF you really believe that everyone should have a right to do "what they want to do", then you are an anarchist. Is that your position?

reply from: yoda

To an extent that is true. Language evolves.
Online dictionaries update daily. How quickly do you think language evolves?
By the hour or by the minute?

reply from: yoda

No, not really. What documentation do you have that dictionaries are "too slow" to keep up with changes in our language?
Or are we supposed to take your word for it?

reply from: yoda

Been there, done that.
What's next?

reply from: nancyu

Been there, done that.
What's next?
I think all you are waiting for now is the T shirt.

reply from: yoda

Yeah....... I wonder what it will say?

reply from: yoda

You don't need to like prolifers to be prolife. All you need is to respect the humanity of the unborn, and value innocent human life.
Beyond that, you can hate every one of us and still be prolife.

reply from: sander

Goodness no, so stay away from her.

reply from: sander

No one can say you didn't try, Sander.
If only it was that easy to show people how horrible it is to support the murder of innocent children in the womb.

reply from: sander

You don't need to like prolifers to be prolife. All you need is to respect the humanity of the unborn, and value innocent human life.
Beyond that, you can hate every one of us and still be prolife.
Wow! If all this is true, how come you and your "posse" keep accusing so many prolifers of being "pro-aborts?"
My thoughts exactly.
In this forum, If yoda/nancyu/sander disagree with you, whether you say you are prolife or not, you become a 'proabort'.
Oh bull puckey.....stop making things up.
P/S....just for you....would you PLEASE use the backsapce key or quote function? Pretty please.

reply from: yoda

It doesn't seem to bother you that we think of you as a proabort, right?


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