Home - List All Discussions

Here's to Vexing

by: nancyu

I promised Vexing that if she fought for personhood with us I would go vegetarian.
I know I can't prove it, Vexing, but I'm keeping my promise.
Here's to you, Vexing.
Welcome, congratulations, and thank you.

reply from: sander

Yes, congrats to Vexing for being a reasonable person, open to truth and change!
And to Nancy too for being a woman of her word!

reply from: jujujellybean

what? I'm so confused....what happened???

reply from: LolitaOlivia

What the ***** is going on? Vexing didn't "convert", did she? Because that doesn't sound like her.

reply from: ProInformed

"What the ***** is going on? Vexing didn't "convert", did she? Because that doesn't sound like her."
I don't know Lolita, haven't seen whatever post they're talking about.
Oh and my 'pro-choice' sisters were REALLY shocked when I turned pro-life!!!
After all I was such a liberal, feminist, atheist, and literally a card-carrying member of the ACLU. All 5 of my sisters and my mother used to be 'pro-choice' but now my mother and 3 of my sisters are pro-life. So in my family alone we went from a 'pro-choice' to pro-life ratio of 7/0, to a ratio of 2/5.
BTW, did you know that the two women who started Feminists For Life used to be members of NOW?
I don't know what it was that Vexing posted, or if she really is now pro-life, but why would that be such a surprise?
I know you've read here about how many former abortion industry employees, and even abortionists, have become pro-life. Both of the women involved in the Roe and Doe Supreme Court cases are now pro-life. And even Bernard Nathanson, abortinist and founder of NARAL, became pro-life.
I will not be surprised (happy but not shocked) if abortionists like Tiller and Hern someday stop doing abortions and join the fight to protect women and babies from the abortion industry.
I've met lots of people both online and in real life who went from defending the abortion industry to defending women and babies; it's not that unusual.

reply from: galen

here is the post and i bumped the thread.
Originally posted by: sander
Vexing,
By saying, "morally wrong", you are now 100% pro-life?
Vexing
Senior Executive
Posts: 1874
Joined: 10/17/2007
Originally posted by: sander
Vexing,
By saying, "morally wrong", you are now 100% pro-life?
Yes indeed. I work from an anti-discrimination basis.
It is not okay to discriminate against any human being, regardless of age, size, development, etc.

reply from: jujujellybean

wow. I don't know what to say. Geez...is she really pro life now? That's pretty crazy!

reply from: yoda

I'm skeptical too, but I'll take her off iggy just to see that.

reply from: Beprolifewithme

Ok,,, are you sure this isn't another faithman, or something, posing???

reply from: Beprolifewithme

I Have LOTS of recipes if you want!!!

reply from: Hereforareason

Vexing are you saying that you switched from pro-abortion to pro-life? I've been gone awhile and don't think I"ll be catching up on the forum posts.
Amber

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I'm still pro-confused. XD I really hesitate to do something 100% all at once because I don't want it to be fake. I was instantly recruited into pro-choice and I'm still working to realise that "forcing a woman to remain pregnant" isn't so much about forcing her, as it is about saving her child.

reply from: ChristianLott2

thank you from the bottom of my heart.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I absolutely hate the term, and only use it in reference to extreme pro-choicers like Tiller.
I totally agree with everything Vexing, and that's pretty much where I am right now. I'm still reviewing my options.

reply from: Teresa18

I disagree. Our side does not support the killing of children in the womb. People on the other side support killing children up until birth, Barack Obama beyond.

reply from: 4given

I disagree. Our side does not support the killing of children in the womb. People on the other side support killing children up until birth, Barack Obama beyond.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I disagree. Our side does not support the killing of children in the womb. People on the other side support killing children up until birth, Barack Obama beyond.
*Shrug* Despite that fact, pro-choice people very rarely come across to the public as lunatics.
'Tis a fact. Pro-choicers also don't murder born people.

reply from: Faramir

I disagree. Our side does not support the killing of children in the womb. People on the other side support killing children up until birth, Barack Obama beyond.
*Shrug* Despite that fact, pro-choice people very rarely come across to the public as lunatics.
'Tis a fact. Pro-choicers also don't murder born people.
They are responsible for the deaths of 4,000 per day of the UNBORN in the US alone, so they more than make up for the two or three who have been killed by prolife nuts.
If that's not crazy, what is?

reply from: 4given

Well not "everyone", but you surely seem to have relished in conflict.
So your pro-life stance is based on discrimination? Did you believe that pro-lifers as a "community" were not willing to accept you as the person you are? Regardless of your experiences, I have to say that the bottom line to most pro-lifers is as it should be- the unborn child. So is your pro-life stance based on you... or the threatened child?

reply from: 4given

Care to rethink this..

reply from: 4given

I disagree. Our side does not support the killing of children in the womb. People on the other side support killing children up until birth, Barack Obama beyond.
*Shrug* Despite that fact, pro-choice people very rarely come across to the public as lunatics.
'Tis a fact. Pro-choicers also don't murder born people.
They are responsible for the deaths of 4,000 per day of the UNBORN in the US alone, so they more than make up for the two or three who have been killed by prolife nuts.
If that's not crazy, what is?

reply from: 4given

Can you not read?!
Yes, because they are, by and large, intolerant Christians who crap on transsexuals from a great height.
It's based on equality for everyone.
But hey, feel free to over-analyse my new stance on abortion until you convince me to turn pro-choice again. That would be really awesome for the cause!
No need to be a dramatic Caitlin. Seems rather odd.. though I like your take on it.." Equality for everyone''
One can not be convinced to embrace the bloodied, selfish, hate-stained trickle of abortion death- unless they have that putrid remnant alive in them.. so if you for a second think your melodrama- though I know you enjoy it- about turning pro-abortion.. is going to fly- you are or you are not. One doesn't switch sides because they are bothered by the thoughts of another.. It is pretty basic Cait- one supports the elective mutilatation of their offspring or one does not..

reply from: LiberalChiRo

There is no excuse to kill a born human OR a preborn one. Killing a doctor doesn't make the abortions go away. It just adds to the death toll.

reply from: 4given

Care to rethink this..

reply from: Faramir

Agreed, but you've got about 50,000,000 more killings on the prochoice side than on the prolife side.
It's a lot safer to be an abortion doctor than to be in the womb.
In fact, the womb is now the most dangerous place to be.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Care to rethink this..
I assume you are referring to the cases where the babies survive the abortion and are "stabbed" to death afterwards?
I have never heard of a case where a pro-choicer killed a pro-lifer. There may be cases, but pro-choicers don't bomb churches.

reply from: Faramir

Care to rethink this..
I assume you are referring to the cases where the babies survive the abortion and are "stabbed" to death afterwards?
I have never heard of a case where a pro-choicer killed a pro-lifer. There may be cases, but pro-choicers don't bomb churches.
If abortion becomes illegal, the prochoice nutters will come out of the woodwork.
And the number of abortion doctors who have been killed is miniscule. Prolife violence is misiscule. It just gets a lot of press. And on what side do you think the press is?

reply from: Faramir

Yeah, I did.
I can't expect people not discriminate against me if I'm willing to discriminate against another human being.
It would just be hypocritical.
Can you clarify your position?
Some--especially US politicians--say they are "personally prolife." They believe abortion is wrong--or they at least say that it is, but think that women should still have the right to choose.
But the reason for being prolife is to defend the unborn, so being "personally prolife" does little or nothing to stop babies from being killed by abortion.
I don't know by what means abortion could be stopped in your country, but if you're ever in a position to vote for or against legalized abortion, will you vote against it? Or if this decision is left to legislators, will you vote for prolife legislators who will work to make abortion illegal?

reply from: Faramir

But there are still prolifers there, and to be prolife means to to support means to stop abortion, regardless of how much the odds seem against it.
To be prolife in NZ would be similar to being prolife here--at the very least it would mean supporting legislators or legislation which would make abortion illegal.
Otherwise, to be "personally prolife" is no different than those during the time of US slavery who personally didn't like the idea of slavery, but thought the decision regarding slave ownership should be left to the consciences of the individual citizens.
Their logic was flawed, because they disregarded those who were most affected by such a choice.

reply from: nancyu

Well not "everyone", but you surely seem to have relished in conflict.
So your pro-life stance is based on discrimination? Did you believe that pro-lifers as a "community" were not willing to accept you as the person you are? Regardless of your experiences, I have to say that the bottom line to most pro-lifers is as it should be- the unborn child. So is your pro-life stance based on you... or the threatened child?
Hey, if she opposes legal abortion, why not take that as a "win?" Some people oppose abortion just because they think it's what "God" wants. There are lots of other reasons. I sincerely hope all will eventually come to a full enough understanding that they oppose abortion simply because it is wrong to kill a human being, and they understand that, from conception, we are all human beings. In the mean time, I will accept opposition to the barbaric practice for any reason...

reply from: galen

I disagree. Our side does not support the killing of children in the womb. People on the other side support killing children up until birth, Barack Obama beyond.
*Shrug* Despite that fact, pro-choice people very rarely come across to the public as lunatics.
'Tis a fact. Pro-choicers also don't murder born people.
______________________________________________________________
thier are good and bad people on both sides of the issue.. and then you look closer and realise that 4000 people a day are killed for the discriminatory beliefs of thier parent/s and you realise who the bad guys are.
i don't believe in any violence but one side definately tips the other.

reply from: yoda

No one has the power to turn you into a proabort OR a prolifer. You do that all by yourself. If you really are convinced that discrimination against human being based on age, size, and/or development is wrong, and all killing based on that discrimination is wrong, no one is going to change your heart on that.

reply from: yoda

Oh yes, there are some documented cases. There are countless cases where a proabort boyfriend and/or husband has killed his pregnant, prolife wife for refusing to have an abortion. And there are outright murders over nothing more than advocacy. One that springs to mind happened in Huntsville, AL:
Murder
In 1993, pro-abortion activist Eileen Orstein Janezic murdered 51-year old pro-life activist minister and radio talk show host Jerry Simon. After killing Simon, she held police at bay with a pistol for six hours while spouting quotes from Anton LaVey's "Satanic Bible." On October 27, 1994, a jury found her guilty of murder and sentenced her to life in prison. During trial, she admitted that she had shot Simon to prove her love of Satan.
References: World Magazine, September 18, 1993; "Pro-Life Leader, Pastor Murdered by Avowed Satanist." Life Advocate, November 1993, page 7.

reply from: galen

i have had several attempt on myself or moms to be at our shelter over the years.. along the lines of " if you won't get an abortion i'll take you and the brat out myself.. and everyone who lives with you too!"
no sorry prochoice does not mean a simple calm and quiet mind... no more than prolife does.

reply from: 4given

You are right. So much better having her on the side of LIFE. I am anticipating seeing her debate the same points you did with her. Welcome to an awakening Caitlin!

reply from: nancyu

I Have LOTS of recipes if you want!!!
Thanks! I'd love recipes. Galen has been posting some in the State Farm Thread, too.

reply from: nancyu

I've read this, and I understand I think. I think my becoming vegetarian while you are becoming pro life, gives me a little different perspective than I had before. Like calling myself "vegetarian" still seems funny to me.
In the same way that it's hard to become completely vegetarian overnight, it's hard to become completely pro life overnight. You've done the most important thing, by recognizing that an unborn child is a person who should have the same rights as any other person. It took some courage to do this, because there is a lot more involved in being pro life; sometimes it might not be so great.
I've stopped eating meat; the rest of becoming a vegetarian at heart might take me a little more time. I am starting to look at things different because of this, though. I made veggie burgers on the grill tonight. My nephew said "What? that's gross!" It's funny, I think the idea of burgers made from cows is "gross" now, when just last week I thought nothing of it.
There is a stereotype for vegetarians, just like there is a stereotype for prolifers. Being pro life doesn't mean you have to fit into any stereotype. I think you can be pro life and still be you.
I'm gonna keep being me. So if I call one of your pro abort friends a non person, pro death, clump of tissue filled with snot, I'm sorry. (I can't help it, that's just the way I am.)

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Oh yes, there are some documented cases. There are countless cases where a proabort boyfriend and/or husband has killed his pregnant, prolife wife for refusing to have an abortion. And there are outright murders over nothing more than advocacy. One that springs to mind happened in Huntsville, AL:
Murder
In 1993, pro-abortion activist Eileen Orstein Janezic murdered 51-year old pro-life activist minister and radio talk show host Jerry Simon. After killing Simon, she held police at bay with a pistol for six hours while spouting quotes from Anton LaVey's "Satanic Bible." On October 27, 1994, a jury found her guilty of murder and sentenced her to life in prison. During trial, she admitted that she had shot Simon to prove her love of Satan.
References: World Magazine, September 18, 1993; "Pro-Life Leader, Pastor Murdered by Avowed Satanist." Life Advocate, November 1993, page 7.
I see. Well, at this point it's my opinion that both sides of this debate are full of sickos. They are the loud and obnoxious minority, dangerous and lethal in many ways. For every 1000 sane members there is one nutcase.
Both sides also have a lot of good people. Most pro-lifers and pro-choicers are good people. I refuse to paint the members the color of the extremists. This applies to BOTH sides.
I never called pro-lifers "anti-woman" on a regular basis (once in anger), but I know pro-choicers who did, every time. I didn't call pro-lifers "anti-choice" or "bible-thumping baby-humpers" (a personal winner for uniqueness).
I will not call pro-choicers "pro-abortion" unless they actually are (rare), or "pro-death" or any other name you can think up. It's disrespectful, and the most important thing a sane member of any debate can do is to maintain dignity and respect.
I am pro-life now. My own personal belief that abortion should be slowly reduced is a personal opinion and doesn't make me any less pro-life. IF it was suddenly illegal I would only hope that a backlash doesn't happen like it has in the past.
I believe abortion should be illegal. It's not currently, and I feel that it is something that has to be worked towards with patience.

reply from: 4given

How disgusting. Unique, eh? .. Hmm. well you stated early that you had an issue with being called "pro-abortion" even though you support abortion.. Let's see. I have been called a "woman hater, bigot, think that all women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped, want women to be mobile womb, anti-choice, Bible thumper, crazy fundie, chauvanist, fetus-lover..." the list is long, likely happens more often to those of us that want to stand for the innocent- than the pro-abort side that wants to justify their position to destroy them.
Do you think that the men and mostly women responsible for those comments would be considered "extremists"?

reply from: galen

you know i really understand the whole sterotype thing.. and its funny how many assumptions people make just about someones look or religion etc.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I don't support abortion. And I agree, there are plenty of horrible names. Making up more does not make it right.
Extremists? Perhaps not ALL of them. Some of them yes, because they're the ones that will create the terms in the first place. The others use the terms when they become extremely frustrated, as happens in this debate.

reply from: nancyu

Oh yes, there are some documented cases. There are countless cases where a proabort boyfriend and/or husband has killed his pregnant, prolife wife for refusing to have an abortion. And there are outright murders over nothing more than advocacy. One that springs to mind happened in Huntsville, AL:
Murder
In 1993, pro-abortion activist Eileen Orstein Janezic murdered 51-year old pro-life activist minister and radio talk show host Jerry Simon. After killing Simon, she held police at bay with a pistol for six hours while spouting quotes from Anton LaVey's "Satanic Bible." On October 27, 1994, a jury found her guilty of murder and sentenced her to life in prison. During trial, she admitted that she had shot Simon to prove her love of Satan.
References: World Magazine, September 18, 1993; "Pro-Life Leader, Pastor Murdered by Avowed Satanist." Life Advocate, November 1993, page 7.
I see. Well, at this point it's my opinion that both sides of this debate are full of sickos. They are the loud and obnoxious minority, dangerous and lethal in many ways. For every 1000 sane members there is one nutcase.
Both sides also have a lot of good people. Most pro-lifers and pro-choicers are good people. I refuse to paint the members the color of the extremists. This applies to BOTH sides.
I never called pro-lifers "anti-woman" on a regular basis (once in anger), but I know pro-choicers who did, every time. I didn't call pro-lifers "anti-choice" or "bible-thumping baby-humpers" (a personal winner for uniqueness).
I will not call pro-choicers "pro-abortion" unless they actually are (rare), or "pro-death" or any other name you can think up. It's disrespectful, and the most important thing a sane member of any debate can do is to maintain dignity and respect.
I am pro-life now. My own personal belief that abortion should be slowly reduced is a personal opinion and doesn't make me any less pro-life. IF it was suddenly illegal I would only hope that a backlash doesn't happen like it has in the past.
I believe abortion should be illegal. It's not currently, and I feel that it is something that has to be worked towards with patience.
I don't understand why you would be offended by labeling a pro choicer as pro abortion. This is the choice they are talking about aren't they? The choice to kill a child? If not, what then?
I am not offended to be labeled anti choice, because that is what I am. Why would someone who is pro choice be offended by being called pro abortion? That is usually the implication associated with the term. If they are not pro abortion, then they shouldn't call themselves "pro choice" without specifically stating what "choice" they are "pro" for. I don't see any logic here, but then again, I never really expect logic coming from a pro abort.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

For the same reason pro-lifers are offended by being called anti-woman and all of those other names. It's the WRONG NAME, it implies the wrong things. Even when I was pro-choice I was NOT in approval of abortion, I simply felt it was a choice. I know you don't understand the difference and I don't really care. Many pro-choicers are offended by the name. The term pro-abortion was invented by pro-lifers, and it is NOT what pro-choice wants to call itself. Everyone has quirks. My mother hates the word "feral" because to her, it sounds like a swear word. So, I don't say feral around her. I don't call people "fundies" either. Or wacko-liberals. Perhaps I was raised with stricter morals in relation to respecting other people.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Also, it's not just about YOU. Just because YOU are ok with being called anti-choice doesn't mean a fellow pro-lifer would be ok with that. You have to respect their feelings.

reply from: carolemarie

I disagree. Our side does not support the killing of children in the womb. People on the other side support killing children up until birth, Barack Obama beyond.
*Shrug* Despite that fact, pro-choice people very rarely come across to the public as lunatics.
Obviously, that depends on what side of the issue the public is on.
Dr. Peter Sanger strikes me as full-blown raving maniac

reply from: 4given

LC- as a school teacher, do you teach that children are "raised"? Is that a correct term? I hear it so often, yet still believe that one raises cattle, but rears children.. Just curious. I was reared by diverse parents- one that was a UDT Leader who had a speak less.. fight more philosophy. And the other was a subservient model- that played the role quite well. She said to respect others as Christ would. To walk away and address issues later.. He said to deal with the problems now.. always making sure others were well aware of what your stance was and that we would never waiver.. "hands on".. So as far as balance goes.. I won't hesitate to call others for who they truly are- If one supports abortion- they are "pro-abortion". Why would that term be offensive? On occasion I will refer to others as "choicers".. It isn't about whether or not you were reared with stricter morals.. but your own opinion of the cause you help to support.. It is ugly, right?

reply from: galen

i try to use the term prochoice to be polite... untill i run accross a lolita.. then its no holds barred.. FM and others are on my list too.. i really really hate bigots...and bullies.

reply from: carolemarie

Hey LC,
I was curious, what grade and subject do you teach? I am finishing up my teaching degree so I am curious.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Well yes, there are people who really get on our nerves and we just itch to give it to 'em!

reply from: nancyu

So you weren't pro choice for abortion? What were you pro choice for? Were you pro choice for abortion, but afraid to admit that? Or were you pro choice for something else?
Are these questions too difficult?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I do not consider "raised" to be an insulting term so yes, children are raised. I was raised. My parents say they raised me. I was raised by them. My mother was raised by her parents. My children will be raised by me and my husband.
If one supports abortion- they are "pro-abortion".
ONLY IN YOUR OPINION. Not in the eyes of many pro-choicers. I could call people on here MANY things based on my OPINIONS of them, but I choose not to. It's called self control.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I teach 3rd grade, all subject areas (obviously!).

reply from: LiberalChiRo

So you weren't pro choice for abortion? What were you pro choice for? Were you pro choice for abortion, but afraid to admit that? Or were you pro choice for something else?
Are these questions too difficult?
I was pro-CHOICE, and that choice could have been BIRTH, ABORTION, or ADOPTION. If you wanted to call me pro-abortion, you would have had to call me pro-abortion-birth-adoption.

reply from: carolemarie

That is a good age. (my son is going into third grade)

reply from: galen

i will accept that you are now prolife..you just have a diffrent view on how we should get rid of abortion... and that's fine w/ me.. So does CM.. i may not hold the same views as you do or CM does.. but then again you probably won't hold all the same views i do either. its what makes every person unique.
As long as you strive for Life for an unborn child and do not openly try to help someone into a descision to abort...and try to educate people on the nature of abortion... then you are moving in the right direction.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No, I'm definitely not going to try and convince any women to abort.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, I like third graders. They're very enthusiastic and love to learn.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Have you ever?
I think I did but I honestly don't remember. Normally on eHealth I tried to get the woman to make her own decision, and in a few cases I did in fact tell the woman it was probably not a good idea for her to abort since she didn't seem to want one.

reply from: carolemarie

Yeah, I like third graders. They're very enthusiastic and love to learn.
I have a year of stuff left, then it is off to teach math. Do you have the ESL certification?

reply from: 4given

What?! What does self control have to do with refusing to admit the truth about supporting abortion?( in a comment or a title) So no- pro-abortion is not only in my opinion- but actually in the stance one takes who supports the choice to electively kill their offspring- (or support others who do)

reply from: galen

Have you ever?
I think I did but I honestly don't remember. Normally on eHealth I tried to get the woman to make her own decision, and in a few cases I did in fact tell the woman it was probably not a good idea for her to abort since she didn't seem to want one.
___________________________________________
and how would you react now to the same situation.. the 'she didn't seem to want one'?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Oh yes, there are some documented cases. There are countless cases where a proabort boyfriend and/or husband has killed his pregnant, prolife wife for refusing to have an abortion. And there are outright murders over nothing more than advocacy. One that springs to mind happened in Huntsville, AL:
Violence against pregnant women falls in this category. Laci Peterson. Mary Jo Kopechne. ad infinitum.
There's some disturbing stats on this but you can look it up. I mean, out of all the time it takes to look this stuff up and post it most of you pro aborts probably never read it. Because you're here to pester. If you wanted to know the truth you could do the research on your own.
Yet, apart from the staggering number of abortions - pro aborts are bar none the most sinister. They promote a disregard for the sanctity of human life, devaluing all humanity in the process, leaving a great gaping hole for homicidal tendencies of all walks and stripes.
There are and there are not stats for such accusations - but arguing it would be forest and trees. You make your denial and close off your mind like you've shut out your heart.
Vex, even tho you claim to be pro life you still have a lot to learn about how awful abortion really is.
Hint: abortionfacts.com (Love Them Both)
And, LiberalChiRo - you are more harm to the pro life cause than good - so you may as well be pro choice. You only cause confusion with your carelessness.
How about all the young girls who are forced by their parents or boyfriends to have abortions. That's still murder - with the assumption that the baby is 'pro life'. Take into account pro abort peer pressure on a massive scale.
What do you people mean - pro choice?
The real words are - pro abort, anti abort.
I am anti abortion.
Every non suicidal person is 'pro life' for themselves, right?
You wannabe 'pro life' people are afraid of confrontation. You are afraid what the 'pro choicers' will think of you - they'll call you crazy if you call them MURDERERS.
.. but it's what they are. Too bad if you don't have a back bone, if you don't see this as an EXTREEMLY important matter, not some stagnant forum chat to waste time.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Have you ever?
I think I did but I honestly don't remember. Normally on eHealth I tried to get the woman to make her own decision, and in a few cases I did in fact tell the woman it was probably not a good idea for her to abort since she didn't seem to want one.
___________________________________________
and how would you react now to the same situation.. the 'she didn't seem to want one'?
Now I definitely wouldn't tell her to abort! I also would try and guide a woman who did want to abort away from the decision.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, I like third graders. They're very enthusiastic and love to learn.
I have a year of stuff left, then it is off to teach math. Do you have the ESL certification?
No, not yet. It's my first full year here (I did a semester as a sub for a woman on maternity leave last semester, that's how I landed the job permanently!) and I became a teacher by taking the certification exams as opposed to the classes. I've already gone through five years of college.
I am required eventually to take ESL classes of course and I think I'll be able to get one in this year. I've got a lot of other classes ahead of me.

reply from: LiberalChiRo


I agree.
It's actually you two who do more harm. Extremists are the ones who hold progression back, because everyone else thinks I believe the same as you, so most of my time will be spent breaking the disgusting stereotype you've formed.
Just as there are some pro-choicers who, like I was as one, are honest people who are looking for truth, so pro-lifers are as well. But there are extremists pro-choicers who fill other people's heads with lies and hate. There are pro-lifers who do the same. I have seen more pro-lifers lying and cheating and speaking out of their arses than pro-choicers. I'm seeing more of the pro-choice bull nowadays, but pro-life is far from "innocent".

reply from: 4given

What?! When and how so? The bottom line is always the same for abortion- An innocent dead child and a wounded mother (Nevermind the families etc. hurt from abortion- Mom is the only ine that matters- not the father, brothers, sisters.. etc right? Isn't that what "choice" is about?!) How can an honest truth seeker not for a moment realize that abortion is beyond anti-child, but anti-woman as well? Again.. it isn't really about choice, as much as it is about having the choice to have your "situation/child" killed for whatever reason.. right?!

reply from: 4given

and all of that is truthful.. why and how would a lifer need to be dishonest about the bottom line- the CHILD one desires to save from abortion.. or on occasion it is about the MOTHER that should be spared from the aftermath of such recklessness..

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Why am I even talking to you? You're completely immune to reason.

reply from: 4given

LC -Explain the following statement:
"I have seen more pro-lifers lying and cheating and speaking out of their arses than pro-choicers."

reply from: LiberalChiRo

That statement only needs explaining if you can't read english.

reply from: 4given

So you actually don't have any examples to back up your pro-abort propaganda?
What and why would a pro-lifer distort the abortion truth? As a community the pro-lifers have honest intentions and convictions. It is nearly always about the innocent. Pretty basic, right? Pro-choice/aborts need to distort the truth to justify their heinousness.. and actually believe what they promote.

reply from: ChristianLott2

And this stuff about pro aborts being so polite and not name calling, etc.
They call the murder of an innocent baby a RIGHT !
That's insult number one - devaluing, having the audacity to call into question so FUNDAMENTAL as a person's RIGHT TO LIFE.
This isn't some high brow philosophical question - we are talking about malignant savagery.
The way they spread it to others - devaluing others children by indoctrinating them into their pro 'choice of baby murder' cult.
Shame on all of you for pretending.

reply from: nancyu

Yeah, I like third graders. They're very enthusiastic and love to learn.
I have a year of stuff left, then it is off to teach math. Do you have the ESL certification?
What!!!?? YOU are going to teach MATH,??? and you haven't even figured out this word problem yet:
If an unborn child is a person (and an unborn child is a person)
and if it is illegal to murder persons (and it is)
and if abortion is murder of a person (and it is)
how can it be *legal* to have an abortion?
Maybe you can ask one of your professors to help you with this.
If he can't help you, I will.

reply from: nancyu

LOLROFLMHOLOLHMSILSH!!

reply from: nancyu

If anyone who claims to be pro life objects to being called anti choice, then they aren't really pro life by my definition, so no; I don't have to respect their feelings. Since they don't respect those of the unborn child.

reply from: nancyu

Yes, I agree with you and liberalchiro.
I think its just childish when people call me 'pro-abort' just because I believe abortion should be legal.
And baby killer/murderer etc. for the same reason!
I've always called prolifers by that name (bar 1 or 2 recent posts of retaliation).
The definition of pro abort is supporting the legality of abortion you dummbell.

reply from: nancyu

So you weren't pro choice for abortion? What were you pro choice for? Were you pro choice for abortion, but afraid to admit that? Or were you pro choice for something else?
Are these questions too difficult?
I was pro-CHOICE, and that choice could have been BIRTH, ABORTION, or ADOPTION. If you wanted to call me pro-abortion, you would have had to call me pro-abortion-birth-adoption.
So you were pro choice for abortion. (See, it's the second item you listed)

reply from: nancyu

I agree.
It's actually you two who do more harm. Extremists are the ones who hold progression back, because everyone else thinks I believe the same as you, so most of my time will be spent breaking the disgusting stereotype you've formed.
Just as there are some pro-choicers who, like I was as one, are honest people who are looking for truth, so pro-lifers are as well. But there are extremists pro-choicers who fill other people's heads with lies and hate. There are pro-lifers who do the same. I have seen more pro-lifers lying and cheating and speaking out of their arses than pro-choicers. I'm seeing more of the pro-choice bull nowadays, but pro-life is far from "innocent".
Isn't this rich Christian? Maybe if we stopped actually believing that the unborn are persons, we could convince more people that they are??
What a "disgusting stereotype" we've formed!

reply from: MC3

When "choice" means the intentional and cowardly execution of a helpless unborn child, as it does in the case of elective abortion, please don't hesitate to call me "anti-choice." It is a label that I will proudly accept. As for the word "extremist," I will never be anything else in the cause of the unborn.

reply from: sander

I agree.
It's actually you two who do more harm. Extremists are the ones who hold progression back, because everyone else thinks I believe the same as you, so most of my time will be spent breaking the disgusting stereotype you've formed.
Just as there are some pro-choicers who, like I was as one, are honest people who are looking for truth, so pro-lifers are as well. But there are extremists pro-choicers who fill other people's heads with lies and hate. There are pro-lifers who do the same. I have seen more pro-lifers lying and cheating and speaking out of their arses than pro-choicers. I'm seeing more of the pro-choice bull nowadays, but pro-life is far from "innocent".
Isn't this rich Christian? Maybe if we stopped actually believing that the unborn are persons, we could convince more people that they are??
What a "disgusting stereotype" we've formed!
Rich isn't the word! She has stereotyped pregnant teens to the point of saying she hates them and they will not amount to anything, live off welfare, etc..
But, when she stereotypes in that manner, I suppose it's not "disgusting". lol
And I think people who make such a fuss about being called pro-abortion are protesting a little too much....wonder why? Could it be truth hurts...I think so.
I could not care less if someone calles me anit-choice or whatever....I know the truth of "choice", so yes I AM ANTI-CHOICE!

reply from: yoda

Sorry, that really doesn't fit the dictionary definition of "prolife". Wanting a slow, gradual transition means you really aren't into it yet. When you get to the point that the idea of 4,000 babies a day bothers you a great deal, and you are more concerned about those 4,000 babies than about the feelings of those who support abortion, then you may fit the definition.
The proper definition of prolife says you think about should be illegal, period. No waiting period, no gradual transition, just make it illegal.
pro-life adjective against open access to abortion: in favor of bringing the human fetus to full term, especially by campaigning against open access to abortion and against experimentation on embryos http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861736610

pro-life adjective opposed to the belief that a pregnant woman should have the freedom to choose an abortion if she does not want to have a baby
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=63328&dict=CALD

pro-life -adj.
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/pro-life

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) -
pro-life -adjective opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pro-life&r=66

pro-life adjective supporting the belief that it is immoral for a pregnant woman to have the freedom to choose to have an abortion (= an operation to end a pregnancy) if she does not want to have a baby http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=prolife*1+0&dict=A

reply from: yoda

No, it wasn't. It's a term in general use, and the vast majority of our society sees it as meaning nothing more than the opposite of prolife, that is to say someone who is in favor of the legal status of elective abortion.
The objections to that term are a matter of prochoice dogma, not to the actual meaning of the term but to what they claim in order to promote the use of "prochoice" over "proabortion" for political reasons.
pro-a·bor·tion adjective - favoring legal access to abortion: in favor of open legal access to voluntary abortion http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861736813
pro-abortion SYLLABICATION: pro-a·bor·tion PRONUNCIATION: pr-bôrshn ADJECTIVE: Favoring or supporting legalized abortion. http://www.bartleby.com/61/27/P0572700.html

Main Entry: pro·abor·tion Pronunciation: (')prO-&-'bor-sh&n Function: adjective : favoring the legalization of abortion -pro·abor·tion·ist /-sh(&-)n&st/ noun http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pro-abortion

reply from: yoda

No, not really. The terms used in the abortion debate refer to one's stance on abortion, not on any other aspect of reproduction and parenting.

reply from: yoda

CM does not advocate a "delay" in stopping the slaughter of 4,000 babies a day for political reasons.

reply from: yoda

Thank you for your sincere and deep concern over what "does harm" to the prolife movement. As an activist for several years, I'm sure we could use many more such opinions from "recent converts" as to how we should conduct the struggle against those who advocate exactly what you have strongly advocated until this week.

reply from: yoda

Yes, we know..... they see it as the elimination of a clump of cells... right?

reply from: yoda

Of course.
One need only consult the humble dictionary to learn that "anti-choice" means "anti-abortion".
What could be more "prolife" than being "anti-abortion"?

reply from: jujujellybean

Of course.
One need only consult the humble dictionary to learn that "anti-choice" means "anti-abortion".
What could be more "prolife" than being "anti-abortion"?
It cracks me up when people say you're "anti choice"...because they mean it as an insult. Unfortunately for them, I burst their bubble when I take it like a compliment!

reply from: galen

WOW a bunch of people woke up on the wrong side of the bad this AM...

reply from: yoda

Not me..... I fell out on the usual side.......

reply from: jujujellybean

I second that lol to an lolol....

reply from: jujujellybean


it's like they think I'm going to get all mad and yell at them...and then they realize I don't mind and it ruins their day! It's sorta funny, really.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Of course I do. The article I just posted is an example (Shocking Article). There is also NO corrolation between breast cancer and abortion, no more than there is between breast cancer and birth. I can't even think of specific examples because so much of what I hear from the extremists is false. Oh, like birth control is abortifacient. It's NOT primarily, and the fact that it COULD has NOT been proven either. That's just some of the pro-lie crap I've heard.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Thank you. That's how I feel too. I did try being vegetarian a while back btw. Problem is, I don't actually see any problem with eating animals. I DO hate how they are treated in factory farms, but that's a problem with the meat industry and not an issue of meat-eating ethics in general. I think humans are omnivores and eating meat is ok.
Oh watch out; in this crowd, anyone who's not straight as a whistle is a sinner! I bet you most of the hardcore pro-lifers on this forum are also anti-GLBT-rights.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, I just scroll through their posts... and don't read them.

reply from: yoda

Wow, that's just sad.... that you'd take the proabort propaganda at face value like that...... just sad. And you call yourself "prolife"?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Wow, that's just sad.... that you'd take the proabort propaganda at face value like that...... just sad. And you call yourself "prolife"?
What did you expect? This ones just a chat bot. Best to ignore, it does:

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I don't take it at face value, that's the thing. I've seen studies from both sides of the argument and the pro-life studies can barely manage to find ANY corrolation at all, yet go on to claim that babies are being murdered by birth control pills.
Now with the copper IUD I can see some possibility of zygotes being created but not being able to implant. However, it has also common knowledge that a couple using NFP OR trying to conceive will kill many zygotes and embryos too. Using birth control reduces the number of eggs killed each month and prevents most eggs that do ovulate from being fertilized, so in the end, fewer zygotes and embryos end up dying IF the pill is preventing them from implanting, which has NOT been proven.
Why is it ok for zygotes and embryos to die when you're trying to conceive, but not when you're on birth control, especially since far fewer die on birth control?

reply from: galen

i recently gave you a bunch of stuff on this very topic.. all published in well respected journals and corraberted by other Universities.. did you just not read them?

reply from: yoda

I'm not sure what you're saying here.... are you talking about natural miscarriages?
If so, then I have to wonder... do you really not understand the difference between a natural, accidental death and an intentional killing?

reply from: ChristianLott2

Hitler wrote a book! Therefore all people who write books are EVIL!
See how that fails to wash?
You pick out your argument and leave the truth behind. Do you really believe a cows life to be as important as a human life? If so, read the second argument that you willfully ignored because you don't have an answer. Give me one moment and I'll explain why your causes and priorities are absolutely worthless - with logic, if you'd care not to side step it this time..
I've never heard of someone eating a human fetus.
Aren't you a clever one. A clever rejoinder does not always make a sound argument, Vexit. Forget it. Convince yourself of your cleverness and leave civilization behind.
No, I'm looking out for all the people in my situation.
No, you're looking out for top priority - yourself. If you really cared about others you'd see abortion is the most horrible evil facing society for the past 30+ years simply by body count.
I think that is a VERY good thing.
It's a selfish THING.
So I can 'stand myself' just fine, thankyouverymuch.
Go look in the mirror and see the careless self centered life you've created for yourself.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I'm not sure what you're saying here.... are you talking about natural miscarriages?
If so, then I have to wonder... do you really not understand the difference between a natural, accidental death and an intentional killing?
Yes, these are natural miscarriages. But a baby still dies. But on birth control, the woman is still not purposely killing a child - and probably isn't at ALL. She is not taking birth control saying "I want the baby I am already pregnant with to die". Far from it. She is saying "I want to prevent a baby from even being conceived so I DON'T have to kill it (or give birth)."

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Eeew, when I say it like that it really sounds horrible. "I want the baby I am pregnant with to die."
"I want the fetus I am pregnant with to die."
"I want the child I am pregnant with to die."
Still sounds terrible.

reply from: ChristianLott2

Sounds bad, but it's still a clump of tissue - not a baby. Pro CHOICE are full of kind, sweet people who would never offend a soul. Never change anything around to suit their needs. Remember? You were the one who said it.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No I did not. I said that there were offensive pro-choicers but that the MAJORITY of them are kind hearted. I also said that there are some offensive pro-lifers, but that the MAJORITY of them are kind-hearted.
Also, I assume you're being sarcastic about the clump of tissue thing.

reply from: yoda

Wow..... have you lived a sheltered life, or what?

reply from: yoda

IF a woman is aware of the possible side effects of such BC chemicals, then she is saying "I know I'm taking a chance the I might be killing my baby, but that's just too bad for it."

reply from: sander

IF a woman is aware of the possible side effects of such BC chemicals, then she is saying "I know I'm taking a chance the I might be killing my baby, but that's just too bad for it."
What is that, straight talk?
You're just never going to get how to be PC, or twist words til they bleed, are you?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Wow..... have you lived a sheltered life, or what?
I can unfortunately corroborate with Yoda on this. Back when I was exploring Buddhism, someone posted a news article about buddhist monks in who-knows-where who were eating fetuses and babies. It was really gross.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

IF a woman is aware of the possible side effects of such BC chemicals, then she is saying "I know I'm taking a chance the I might be killing my baby, but that's just too bad for it."
No she's not, because that "side effect" is not proven. It's not even required on packaging.

reply from: ProInformed

"*Shrug* Despite that fact, pro-choice people very rarely come across to the public as lunatics."
I understand what you're saying. Part of the reason is because some people who refer to themselves as 'pro-choice' basically have the same POV as some who refer to themselves as pro-life.
Of the three groups:
those endorsing unrestricted abortion-on-demand
those endorsing a total ban on abortions
and those somewhere in-between
the last group best describes most of the people I've met (online and in real life).
But there is a noticeable lack of representation of the moderates.
The problem is that the label 'pro-choice' appears to be moderate and is therefore cleverly used by the abortion industry and pro-abort politicians to falsely claim the majority of citizens endorse whatever the abortion industry is up to.
I've met some pro-aborts who openly admit they are pro-abortion, but more commonly pro-aborts hide behind the better-sounding 'pro-choice' label. I'm not saying pro-choicers don't really exist, just that they only make up a small percentage of the 'pro-choice' movement. This is easily revealed by how most who call themselves 'pro-choice' are not bothered by women being pressured or forced to abort, or by abortion clinics using hard-sell tactics.
Before internet access it was easier for the abortion industry to pretend that pro-abort extremism was just a myth. But now there is much evidence from alternative media and message boards that pro-aborts do indeed exist.
Another reason pro-lifers come across as 'lunatics' is because for decades that the only sort of pro-life advocacy the media would show the public. When I was a choicer I honestly thought the pro-lifers that I knew personally, people like my grandmas who never even cussed let alone used violence, must have been exceptions; I believed that the vast majority of pro-lifers were like what the media showcased: angry, violent, 'anti-woman', 'fanatics'... (never mind that ALL the pro-lifers I knew in real life were nothing like that).
Having been an advocate on both sides of this issue, and also having spent some time in-between (Pro-Informed/undecided), I observed that pro-aborts are much more extreme in their activism than pro-lifers are. MOST pro-lifers I've met won't even participate in a peaceful march for fear of being labeled 'fanatic'. And apparently the choicer chant 'don't impose' is all it takes to keep many pro-lifers quiet... while fatal violence is imposed on thousands of innocent humans per day.

reply from: AshMarie88

Wow I'm only gone 4 days and a pro-choicer turned pro-life?! How in the world! Good job Vexing!

reply from: ChristianLott2

Hey Vex, you have some serious social problems which may or may not have anything to do with your sexual outlook.
ie. I say I'm opposed to 'transitioning' and you launch into a tirade.
Well whatever. This forum isn't about that and I don't plan on entertaining you. Later.

reply from: AshMarie88

Ignore them! I'm pro-gay and pro-life! You can be ANYTHING you wanna be, truely. And I think it's amazing how your views changed, that's great.

reply from: AshMarie88

And no I'm not actually gay. Just PRO-GAY.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I'm not gay either but I'm pro-gay too. I'm pro-GLBT! Saying that someone has to BE gay to be pro-gay is like saying all pro-choice people have abortions or that all pro-life people adopt and have dozens of babies. It's ridiculous.

reply from: Faramir

What does "pro gay" mean?

reply from: faithman

What does "pro gay" mean?
Makes a living at being gay?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It means pro-gay-rights, including primarily the right to marry. It also usually includes the right to be Out in the military, to adopt children, and to not be discriminated against based on sexuality. It means that you are pro-gays being treated like human beings with all the rights they are entitled to. If you're pro-life, and equality for the unborn is one of your mantras, then you'd best question your morals if you're anti-gay-rights, since all they want is equality, too.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I get the same thing from hard-core pro-choicers. I'm just about at my wits end. I want to make a forum called "Pro-MANNERS". Everyone is welcome as long as they're polite.

reply from: sander

Go right ahead, make your forum, this one did just fine before you got here and it'll survive long after you leave.
This particular forum is dedicated to PRO-LIFE views, if that's too much for you to stay on topic...adios.

reply from: Faramir

I'm not "anti-gay" but I'm not "pro-gay" either.
And you are making an unfair comparison. Even if you don't like my views about gay people, which would be against marriage rights, and the belief that the "practice" of gayness is immoral (but not having the inclination to be gay--that is not immoral), I'm not "anti-gay," and they should be treated with respect, and of course should not be killed, like so many in the womb are.

reply from: AshMarie88

What does "pro gay" mean?
Means I'm for gay people, I'm for gay rights. It's not YOUR decision or YOUR choice to decide how someone lives their life or who they should be allowed to love.
Hate gay people? Look away. But don't try to ban their wants and needs. You can decide what marriage really means to you, but you really can't enforce it.
Every gay guy I ever met before (I'm saying guy cause the chicks weren't that friendly), they were some of the NICEST, life loving guys in the world. They're happy and they have the right to be.

reply from: Faramir

I didn't say it was my choice.
But I can believe that the practice of homosexual sex is immoral, and that doesn't mean I hate them.
And I can't stop anyone from practing homosexuality and I don't try.
But it's unfair to compare gay rights to a right to life.
I do not oppose gays having all the rights of any other citizen. There should be no discrimination and they should not be persecuted. Society and the law, for the most part, have defined marriage as between a man and a woman, and a gay person is free to marry someone of the opposite sex, so there is no discrimination.
But whether you think that is fair or not fair, it's not the same as killing them, as what happens to a large percentage of those in the womb, so there is no comparison. They are entirely separate issues, and the inability to legally marry is not the same as being ripped to shreds.

reply from: AshMarie88

Yes, and my point was you can believe it's immoral if you want, but you can't really enforce that.

reply from: faithman

Go right ahead, make your forum, this one did just fine before you got here and it'll survive long after you leave.
This particular forum is dedicated to PRO-LIFE views, if that's too much for you to stay on topic...adios.
MEANIE!!!!

reply from: 4given

Please do! And take your psycho babble away with you.. Oops. Where are my manners. Kindly take your nonchalant talk about killing children with you. Wits end, huh? Haven't seen much of that.. could explain something about your fickle thoughts..

reply from: yoda

Nah, I'm too old to learn new tricks.......

reply from: yoda

No she's not, because that "side effect" is not proven..
Apparently you missed the words "might be" in my post. Look again, it was there all along......

reply from: sander

Go right ahead, make your forum, this one did just fine before you got here and it'll survive long after you leave.
This particular forum is dedicated to PRO-LIFE views, if that's too much for you to stay on topic...adios.
MEANIE!!!!
I only would be if she actually meant she'd scoot from here, start her own web of horrors and take as many fellow proaborts with her as she can.
No wait...that would make me the good guy for sure!

reply from: faithman

Go right ahead, make your forum, this one did just fine before you got here and it'll survive long after you leave.
This particular forum is dedicated to PRO-LIFE views, if that's too much for you to stay on topic...adios.
MEANIE!!!!
I only would be if she actually meant she'd scoot from here, start her own web of horrors and take as many fellow proaborts with her as she can.
No wait...that would make me the good guy for sure!
There are boring sites like that all over the net. I have been bump from plenty of them for far less than what goes on here. Actually this is the most refreshing site on the net. That is why these idiots are here. They start their private threds, then get on the main boards and belly ache about how no one goes to it. We provide them a service. Just think if ole farty didn't have us to "corect" all the time, and CM wants to be the victim, so we do her a service in obliging. Ole liberwahtsahositz can come her and play all intelectually superior even though she hasn't the sence to pour urine out of manly foot wear if detailed instructions was used for soul leather. SSSSOOOOO we get to net work, and do real pro-life action, get a real insite into the bortie , and phony neo-lifer mind set, and kick crap out of the death skancs. Everyone gets what they need. Gotta love it. And by the way, that IAAP private thred is really hopping.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I'm not "anti-gay" but I'm not "pro-gay" either.
And you are making an unfair comparison. Even if you don't like my views about gay people, which would be against marriage rights, and the belief that the "practice" of gayness is immoral (but not having the inclination to be gay--that is not immoral), I'm not "anti-gay," and they should be treated with respect, and of course should not be killed, like so many in the womb are.
People in the GLBT communitty would ask you how on earth you can fight so strongly for the unborn, yet be "neutral" on an issue that kills many born people and restricts their rights. To them, it's as if you are neutral on slavery during the civil war, yet still promoting fetal rights. How can you be pro-life for the unborn, but have absolutely no desire to help born people who are simply being who they are, who they were FORMED BY GOD in the WOMB to be?
As you might say about abortion, being neutral is to basically kill them yourself. To be neutral on gay rights is to court-marshal them, to kill them in hate, to prevent them from being with the person they love.

reply from: Faramir

The unborn ARE BEING KILLED. It's close to 4,000 PER DAY!
Gay people are no more restricted than anyone else, and they are not being killed. Maybe some hateful people have killed some gays, but no prolifer supports violence against gays (except for the crazies that yodavater linked to).
From a moral perspective, they have disordered desires which should not be indulged. But they don't care about my moral perspective and I'm not forcing it on them. They are free to have lovers. It's no longer a crime, as far as I know.
But it's not "hate" to see their practices as immoral. And I'm not killing anyone by seeing it that way.
How does that compare with millions of abortions?
I don't see the comparison at all.

reply from: galen

the comparison is exactly what caused vexings new found compassion for the unborn.. both are discriminated against.. and there was a time when gays etc were killed in this country.. and there are countries around the world that still consider it a crime punishable by death.

reply from: Faramir

Except I was not advocating discrimination against gays.
And there was a time in our country when we were not killing 4,000 of our own EVERY DAY.
We can have BOTH. We can have gays treated fairly and respectfully and we can stop killing the babies.
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Because many prolifers see that that homosexual PRACTICES are immoral does not in any way dilute the message that it's immoral and unjust to kill life in the womb. It's not discrimination to believe homosexual practices are immoral.

reply from: galen

i think it depends on how far you go instateing you think its immoral... a simple statement is ok.. browbeating like some of the fundies do is not IMO.

reply from: galen

from a catholic perspective sex is ulimately reserved for those who would welcome children from thier congress.. for everyone else it is forbidden...

reply from: lukesmom

LOL, actually many nights a good nights sleep is more pleasurable! Know what I mean?

reply from: galen

i do i think i'm headed off to one now!
"night all!

reply from: yoda

That would be changing the main subject of this forum.
That would be changing the subject from the morality of elective abortion to the morality of individual posters on this forum.
And I, for one, do not want to change the main subject.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

That would be changing the main subject of this forum.
That would be changing the subject from the morality of elective abortion to the morality of individual posters on this forum.
And I, for one, do not want to change the main subject.
I'm not asking to change the main subject of this forum, I'm simply saying how people in the GLBT communitty feel about pro-lifers who are anti-gay, that's all.
And if this forum is just about the morality of elective abortion, then I'm definitely pro-life.

reply from: Faramir

The above doesn't follow.
And sex within a marriage is supposed to be pleasurable.

reply from: nancyu

That would be changing the main subject of this forum.
That would be changing the subject from the morality of elective abortion to the morality of individual posters on this forum.
And I, for one, do not want to change the main subject.
I'm not asking to change the main subject of this forum, I'm simply saying how people in the GLBT communitty feel about pro-lifers who are anti-gay, that's all.
And if this forum is just about the morality of elective abortion, then I'm definitely pro-life.
It's about morality and legality. If you support the legality of abortion (which you do) then you are still pro choice (to kill babies) Pro abortion, pro abort, anti life, pro death, pro murder of innocent children.
I won't recognize any GLBT as a person unless they recognize the unborn as persons. In other words, I don't care what they think.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Only a fool thinks this debate is so black and white. I am not for the legality of elective abortion, BUT I am also not for an instant ban on it, either.
Many GLBT people are pro-life. Do you recognize straight people as persons only if they are pro-life?

reply from: faithman

What is more apealing, a "whore house", or a work shop of divine activity? The so called women's advocates are the ones who devalue women as nothing more that an apparatus at a sexual sporting event to be used by irresponcible men. Personhood folks honor women as persons, whos womb is a divine work shop where the very image of the Creator is replicated, and the gift of life is breathed into the unique vessel of individual humanity. The death murchants constantly come up with "what if" excusses to devalue the office of motherhood, and exalt the whorish debasment of women as objects of sexual pleasure, and the gift of womb life, as an inconveniant by product of their puriant desire. But it is a common tactic of the godless humanist to vomit their evil, and blame others for it's reprocussions. The pro-death dogs can not help but return to their own puke and vigerously lap it up. They will leave us, for they were never of us.

reply from: nancyu

I don't recognize anyone as a person, unless they recognize the unborn as persons. If you recognized that an unborn child is a person, you would recognize that abortion is illegal already, because they are persons, already and it is illegal to murder persons already.
So here I sit foolishly conversing with a mindless wad of tissue. (Well, I guess you might be a "potential" person.)

reply from: nancyu

Uh, a zygote doesn't have anything resembling even a primitive brain.
Anyone you talk to on here can't be 'mindless' - or they wouldn't be able to type or read.
A zygote is a person; even though he or she cannot type or read. A pro abort is NOT a person, even though it can.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I don't recognize anyone as a person, unless they recognize the unborn as persons.
Thank you for answering my question. I have some more.
Does this rule only apply to pro-choice adults? In which case, you only consider pro-choicers to not be people and then only if they don't consider the fetus to be a person (which most don't). If this rule does NOT apply to only them and truly applies to everyone, then...
What about little kids who don't yet know about birth? They don't yet even know that unborn babies exist, so they can't have an idea if a fetus is a person or not. Are little children not people because they can't confirmedly say "the unborn is not a person?" Are they not a person until they are old enough to understand this concept? I doubt this is how you feel.
What about a person who has never thought about fetal personhood? Are they not a person until they think about it and decide the unborn is a person? I doubt this is how you feel.
What about the fetus itself!? It certainly can't contemplate its own existence yet, as self-awareness does not appear until several months after birth. According to your own words you've just contradicted yourself, since a fetus is incapable of considering itself a person, and is thus... NOT a person? I doubt this is how you feel.
Isn't it discrimination to consider a group of people to be sub-human? Isn't that what you're fighting against? Two wrongs don't make a right.
I do.
No it is not, because although I feel the unborn is a person, the law does not. It's sad, but it is fact.

reply from: nancyu

Uh, a zygote doesn't have anything resembling even a primitive brain.
Anyone you talk to on here can't be 'mindless' - or they wouldn't be able to type or read.
A zygote is a person; even though he or she cannot type or read. A pro abort is NOT a person, even though it can.
Well done, you missed the point. A person posting here can't be 'mindless' but a zygote certainly is.
You missed the point. So what?

reply from: faithman

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/yodavater/IamaPerson2.jpg

reply from: nancyu

Uh, a zygote doesn't have anything resembling even a primitive brain.
Anyone you talk to on here can't be 'mindless' - or they wouldn't be able to type or read.
A zygote is a person; even though he or she cannot type or read. A pro abort is NOT a person, even though it can.
It would seem that the only difference between you and many abortion proponents is which human beings you deny are "persons." Either all human beings are "persons" or not, so which is it?
Are you simply saying this to "get even" with those who deny the unborn are persons? Since they deny the unborn are persons, you deny they are? But you really don't believe this, right? Is it "an eye for an eye" even if it means you have to lie? (Saying things that aren't true is "lying," right?)
Hey faithman, you know that "you are an idiot" link would come in real handy right about now.

reply from: faithman

Snicker snicker. We will just have to hunt it up.

reply from: nancyu

Some people feel as strongly about murdering animals as you do about abortion.
It's a completly valid comparison.
There are billions more animal deaths than human deaths from abortion.
Then I have nothing left to say to you. If you can't respect how I live my life and what I do do to my own bosy, then you have some VERY serious issues.
BTW, it's 'transitioning' you ignorant bigot.
Abortion will always come behind TS rights to me.
But hey, go ahead and condemn me for trying to look aout for the unborn.
It isn't enough for you that people are pro-life. They must be ONLY pro-life and screw any other cause - especially if you see something that harms no-one as 'wrong'.
You disgust me.
You're not pro-life. You're "Pro my own political hobby and nothing else is relevant"
Obviously I can't be pro-life because I'm a transsexual.
That's fine; keep your f**king cause. I'll look after my own.
I'm curious vexing, does this mean you are not pro life anymore? Has Christian forced you back into being pro choice?
I just would like to know, because I really liked the taste of cheeseburgers, but I hope you're not going to force me to go back to eating cows.

reply from: yoda

To answer that question would be to open a can of (mostly religious) worms, and would unnecessarily distract and divert this forum from it's main purpose, IMO.
Only if you have decided to support making elective abortion illegal NOW.

reply from: yoda

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

reply from: yoda

Then for NOW you are prochoice. If you should change your mind at some point in the future, you may become prolife.

reply from: yoda

Curiously, they do. Every living human cell has a "nucleus", which is the nerve center of that cell, and functions in the same way a brain functions for a multi-cellular creature.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Curiously, they do. Every living human cell has a "nucleus", which is the nerve center of that cell, and functions in the same way a brain functions for a multi-cellular creature.
Every living cell on the PLANET that has a nucleus has a "brain-like" structure then.
(Yes, I know not all cells have nuclei, that's why I phrased it the way I did)
Aside from the nuclei of its cells, which represent multiple "brains" a zygote doesn't have anything resembling a baby's brain until it folds and creates a tube, which eventually becomes the spine, brain stem and eventually the brain.

reply from: galen

ok Yoda this bump is for you... and yu even posted on this thread,.. so to refresh your memory..Vexing is prolife.

reply from: yoda

You know, I looked through this thread, and I didn't see anything about support for the criminalization of abortion...... whatever.

reply from: yoda

Ah, lovely...... more gratuitous insults from the "Christian prolifer".... wonderful!
What a great example you're setting for all Christians AND prolifers!

reply from: yoda

I have no pots or kettles in this thread, there is only yours. If you wish to discuss my gratuitous remarks, why not do it in response to some of them, rather than making generalizations? Could it be that they're too hard for you to find?
As far as your nasty remarks (and yours usually are) about what I was speaking to Mary about, the definition of the word prolife involves the legality of abortion, not "congrats".
Got any more nasty things to say, pottymouth?

reply from: galen

Vexing believes that abortion is wrong based on an anti discrimination view... same as slavery , gay rights, no genoc ide etc. To me that is the same as saying abortion should not be legal... because it descriminates against the fetus.

reply from: yoda

Not really, Mary..... lots of prochoicers say abortion is "wrong" for them, but they would not tell anyone else what to do, etc., etc....
That is not prolife.

reply from: yoda

So, do you support the re-criminalization of abortion, or not?
A simple yes or no will suffice.

reply from: nancyu

People who murder or assault on the basis of discrimination should be punished.
Discrimination isn't "always wrong", and offenders should not be punished for discrimination in and of itself. You're warped.

reply from: yoda

So, vexing, do you support the re-criminalization of abortion, or not?
A simple yes or no will suffice.

reply from: nancyu

Agreed.
Actually, it is always wrong. You should never discriminate against another human being.
I think you're the 'warped' one if you think discrimination is okay.
It depends on which definition of "discriminate" - verb (used without object)
1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality: The new law discriminates against foreigners. He discriminates in favor of his relatives.
2. to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately: to discriminate between things.
- verb (used with object)
3. to make or constitute a distinction in or between; differentiate: a mark that discriminates the original from the copy.
4. to note or distinguish as different: He can discriminate minute variations in tone.
- adjective
5. marked by discrimination; making or evidencing nice distinctions: discriminate people; discriminate judgments.
It is wrong to use discrimination to treat one person as less than another. Discrimination is something everyone does to tell one another apart. It isn't necessarily a bad thing.

reply from: nancyu

I'm not arguing about semantics. I'm saying you can't legislate against discrimination itself. Only the actions that come from it. It would be wrong to punish someone for disliking someone who is different from them. They should only be punished for doing something to that person that they dislike. There are already laws prohibiting bad behavior. You can't legislate against emotions, only actions.

reply from: nancyu

Discriminate against them how? What action are you specifically talking about other than disliking them? Would you invite a Jehova's Witness into your home? If you were an employer would you hire a Jehova's Witness over someone more likable? Are you sure you wouldn't discriminate against them?


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics