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My sister has allowed herself to be blinded...

by: Rhiannontex

...by the human element. She and I had a terrible argument last night, when she told me that she used to be pro-life but is now firmly pro-choice. I could understand what she was saying. It IS terribly hard on some women when they get pregnant under difficult circumstances. But it boils down to one question for me. Since when has it been all right to do evil just because times are hard?
I guess I have kind of a personal stake in the matter. I was the last child in my family. My mother had been told in no uncertain terms by her doctor not to have any more children, so she went on BC. In spite of this, I came along. Now, even though it was well before Roe vs. Wade (back in 1959), my mother would not have had much trouble getting a doctor to give her a therapeutic abortion. But she never even dreamed of it, thanks to her mother's teachings. Even though it gave them yet another person to feed and cloth, my parents stuck it out and I am forever grateful to them both. How many millions of children have lost their chance at life, because their mothers put their interests above those of their children?
Sorry for talking so long, I am still very upset about what happened with my sister.

reply from: faithman

Understandable. Abortion isn't just a private choice. It affects everyone around them. It ultimatly affects all of us. We lost a worker, tax payer, SS contributor. Someone lost a future husband/wife. Some have lost a brother/sister. cousins, nieces/nephews. Well you get the picture.

reply from: yoda

Welcome to the forum, Rhiannotex.
As to your question, it's quite common for people to look for rationalizations, excuses, etc. to justify doing what they are desperate to do anyway. All this rationalizing comes after the fact of the decision to do what it is that they are seeking "absolution" for. It's "post decision rationalization".

reply from: sander

No apologies necessary and welcome to the forum.
Your sister has listened to the #1 proabort lie of all. That it's always about the woman, her needs, her wants, her desires and the child in the mix is secondary to self.
It's a sign of the times we live in, the "me" generation has taken "me" to new heights in killing their very own children rather than take personal responsibility.
Get armed with facts and the truth on abortion, then have another discussion with your sister. She is probably woefully un-informed to the dangers it poses to the woman.

reply from: galen

No apologies necessary and welcome to the forum.
Your sister has listened to the #1 proabort lie of all. That it's always about the woman, her needs, her wants, her desires and the child in the mix is secondary to self.
It's a sign of the times we live in, the "me" generation has taken "me" to new heights in killing their very own children rather than take personal responsibility.
Get armed with facts and the truth on abortion, then have another discussion with your sister. She is probably woefully un-informed to the dangers it poses to the woman.
_______________________________________
welcome i second this statement^^^

reply from: Rhiannontex

Thank you all for the welcome. I'm afraid I'm not able to talk to my sister right now. I'm still too angry at her words and attitude last night.

reply from: sander

Glad you came back, Rhiannontex.
Getting mad won't help matters, but you can use the time waiting for things to cool down by getting armed with info so the next time you do talk you can inform her of what the facts are.
She's most likely not informed.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I happen to agree and even when I was pro-choice I argued with other pro-choicers who for some reason, thought abortion only affected the woman. Hello? What about the fetus? Not to mention any siblings, lovers, parents, children, peers...

reply from: LiberalChiRo

The first half of your post had my blood boiling for a moment until I read the second paragraph... and realised how true it is.
A pregnant woman can't really say "Me, mine, my, I," because it's "Us, we, our"!

reply from: sander

The first half of your post had my blood boiling for a moment until I read the second paragraph... and realised how true it is.
A pregnant woman can't really say "Me, mine, my, I," because it's "Us, we, our"!
There's just no getting around that, is there?

reply from: nancyu

You're right to be angry, in my opinion; she is advocating the murder of children.
I went through a similar time with my sister, several years ago. We lived some distance apart so we argued via email for a few weeks or so. I finally gave up the fight, and I believe I changed her attitude a little even though she never admitted this, it showed.
I hope you two can work this out. All it takes is time and unlimited patience. (now there's a couple things I wish I had more of.) I wish you the best.

reply from: carolemarie

Do you think something happen to make her change her POV? Did she have an abortion or a close friend?

reply from: Rhiannontex

Sander, sadly this is not the first time my sister and I have had major disagreements. I was able to let most things go after a little while, because they were just differences of opinion. But this is far from just having different political beliefs, and I'm just not sure I can get past this one.
NancyU, thank you. Time we both have plenty of, but neither my sister or I are patient people I'm afraid. We are also both extremely stubborn, not a good combination. :<
CaroleMarie, according to Debby she turned pro-choice when she was working for an advocacy group and listened to the stories of various women. I personally wonder if her attitude didn't start changing after her own daughter had an abortion, if it's not a case of she has to try and excuse what her own daughter did.

reply from: sander

Close family members pose a different set of problems in debating this issue.
I wouldn't be surprised that she's found solace in denial since it's her own grandchild that was lost to abortion. She may be trying to find a way to "live" with the knowledge that her own daughter destroyed the life of her own child.
She may come around still, it just may take time and patience.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
So open the borders to immigration.
We'd end up with a flux of able-bodied adults ready to work and pay into the system.
(I've always found it ironic that the same people who whine about the "birth dearth" are the same ones who whine about immigration. Do we want more Americans or fewer Americans? Make up your minds!)
You really don't get it, do you? They want more white Americans.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

It's true, even according to the "biased" guttmacher, that the two groups most likely to abort are poor and impovershed black and latino women.

reply from: ProInformed

"CaroleMarie, according to Debby she turned pro-choice when she was working for an advocacy group and listened to the stories of various women. I personally wonder if her attitude didn't start changing after her own daughter had an abortion, if it's not a case of she has to try and excuse what her own daughter did."
Misplaced compassion... Have her check out the 'REAL CHOICE' website for women's stories the abortion industry suppresses.
Complicity... MOST choicists are so because they are trying to justify an abortion they were involved with. The abortion industry exploits them until they learn moe and become pro-life. Then the abortion industry claims the same people are non-existent or cruelly makes fun of their grief.
All five of my sisters, plus my mother, and myself, used to be pro-aborts.
Most of us have become pro-life as we learned (and more importantly, FACED) the facts. But I do still have two sisters stuck in choicism. They are afraid to allow any discussion of abortion past their choicist chants. They don't want to know the truth because they've each had more than one abortion themselves. I worry about their daughters because our mother's complicity and (ultimately vain) attempt to protect herself from facing the truth about her own abortions is what caused our mother to encourage us (her daughters) to have sex before marriage and to then have abortions. It's a shame that some choicists are so scared to face the facts that they woudl prefer to put their own daughters throught the same shameful and hurtful legacy.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~
...And yet Hispanics and African-Americans are the two fastest-growing demographics in the US due to impressive pregnancy rates.
That just means they're having more unprotected sex than other demographics. At least, that's what it means to me. It explains the large amount of babies born AND the higher rate of abortion.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

My mother had an abortion (was forced to do it) but was pro-life because of it. What frustrated me was that she told me if I became accidentally pregnant, not only would she prevent me from getting an abortion (logically I ask "how?" since I was 20 and independent at the time, but we know how much influence loving parents have) but she would also refuse to let me adopt it out, and she'd raise it herself. That made me feel that I could never have gone to her about an accidental pregnancy and would have to abort it in secret. I did not want her raising my (hypothetical) child. I wanted to pick a couple to do it. Now that I think back on it, that probably could have easily of been negotiated as I'm sure she would much rather have seen the child with another couple than dead. But I was too afraid of her by that point. I didn't want to face the anger and the disappointment from them. I never did end up pregnant (thank God!) but that fear really separated me from them because I was sexually active and trying to "be myself". We're back on great terms again, but it was a painful year.
I think my point was that not all women who abort are pro-choice, and that even if they are pro-life, they can still inadvertently "encourage" their daughters to abort through their own desire to preserve life. It happened to me.

reply from: yoda

Such is the mindset of many choicers. They figure that if they can convince others to follow their bad example, they won't feel so bad about what they did.

reply from: carolemarie

I am sure her daughter has a lot to do with it.
And on top of that the stories she has heard have probably broken her heart. These are not evil women or bad people. In many cases they are victims, and understandably she feels for them.
Your challenge will be to talk about abortion without talking bad about the women who choose it. In other words, empathise with those in a bad situtation, but don't back down from being for life. No matter how bad the situtation, it still is wrong.

reply from: nancyu

I am sure her daughter has a lot to do with it.
And on top of that the stories she has heard have probably broken her heart. These are not evil women or bad people. In many cases they are victims, and understandably she feels for them.
Your challenge will be to talk about abortion without talking bad about the women who choose it. In other words, empathise with those in a bad situtation, but don't back down from being for life. No matter how bad the situtation, it still is wrong.
Bad and/or evil is exactly how I would label women who decide to willingly murder their own children for ANY reason. I don't feel the need to empathize with them. I wouldn't want to empathize with them.

reply from: carolemarie

I wouldn't expect you to show compassion or kindness to anyone.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

I wouldn't expect you to show compassion or kindness to anyone.

reply from: yoda

You don't think she shows compassion and kindness to unborn people? Or don't those count?

reply from: nancyu

I wouldn't expect you to show compassion or kindness to anyone.
I wouldn't expect you to show compassion or kindness (let alone mercy) to anyone who hasn't been born yet.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Yeah, I'd definitely call several people on this forum anti-woman.

reply from: Rhiannontex

Liberal, why? Because they have the audacity to expect women to step up to the plate like mature, responsible people when they get into a bind by their own actions? I believe the term is personal responsibility...I've said it before and I'll say it again. Unless rape is involved, a woman who gets pregnant is in no way, shape or form some helpless victim. She DOES need help and support and compassion, but not a free pass to kill her unborn because "now is just not a convenient time".

reply from: yoda

Women have to be born, before they can become women, ya know?

reply from: sander

Are you going to set yourself up as judge and jury as to who these women are? And "MANY" women are terrible mothers? Really, you should stop projecting your anti-women thoughts onto "many".
Your idea of anti-child abuse is death of the child before mother has a chance to change or baby has a chance to breath.....sick.

reply from: yoda

Ah, so you have decided....for these babies........ that adoption is a "fate worse than death".... right?
How very, very kind of you......

reply from: sander

Can you imagine that, "personal responsibility" being a determining factor in being anti-woman.
Then along comes Spinwad and truly demostrates her anti-woman stance:
But many women aren't responsible and become terrible mothers.
^^^^^^^^^That is anti-woman^^^^^^^^^^^

reply from: sander

Ah, so you have decided....for these babies........ that adoption is a "fate worse than death".... right?
How very, very kind of you......
Yoda, how many times do you have to be told? Choice is ALL about killing the babies, Spinwad is ALL about killing the babies.

reply from: yoda

Ah yes, I keep not getting the memo.........

reply from: sander

I guess you're just going to have to commit it to memory:
Choice is all about KILLING BABIES! Choice is code word for KILL BABIES. sheesh

reply from: yoda

And this is supposed to prove........ what, exactly?
That no one can change their ways? That children who suffer would've always been better of dead? What is your point, exactly?

reply from: sander

Don't let spinwad fool you, she's ANTI-WOMAN, her OWN WORDS are proof positive.
BUT MANY WOMEN AREN'T RESPONSIBILE AND BECOME TERRIBLE MOTHERS.
Doesn't get anymore anti-woman than that!

reply from: yoda

I'm writing it on the back of my hand so I won't forget......

reply from: sander

And this is supposed to prove........ what, exactly?
That no one can change their ways? That children who suffer would've always been better of dead? What is your point, exactly?
It's suppose to prove KILL BABIES and find as many excuses as can be found.

reply from: yoda

Oh, I get it....... "KILL THEM NOW AND MAKE UP EXCUSES LATER"......
Right?

reply from: sander

You may now stop writing on the back of your hand, you get it!

reply from: faithman

No, it's make excuses before during and after. Before, so they can keep it legal. During, so PP can make a killing at killing. And after, so killer carole's get a free walk, and can create co-dependant murdererous mommy sociaties , and call it ministry. Dont forget all those caterers that would be out of work if the "pro-life" fund raiser dinners dried up. And what would the benhamites do? They would have to find another "movement" to lord over, and others to accusse who did not bow down to their self imposed authority of being in sin. There are just to many "jobs" dependant on womb child slaughter. And some abortionist would go hungry if they didn't have access to the free meat from the clinic to stock their freezer. And just think of the tax payers? Child butchering is just as good as anything else to waist money on. We should feel proud that we don't have a choice in subsidizing the killing. Just a great day for all.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Women have to be born, before they can become women, ya know?
Slaves have to be born, too.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

No, the anti-women bigots are the ones who would force a woman to remain pregnant even if she were going to die or go insane. They are the ones who would force an 11 year old to remain pregnant even if she were raped. They often feel women don't have as many rights as men and that women are lesser than men.

reply from: galen

interesting way to phrase the rape case.. especially as the most recent was an 11 yo who underwent a prostaglandin abortion, a more violent act than birth itself... poor choice of example.
the way you phrase this i would be considered ant-woman.. i am most assuredely not.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

In any abortion for non-life-threatening reasons, it would have to be performed early on, not late.
Galen, I find it hard to believe that you think women are the lesser, weaker gender in every way, than they don't belong in the work force, and that they should be breeding machines for men.

reply from: Faramir

That is horrible if some people think that way, but how much worse is it to think that a child in the womb is so much "the lesser" that it could be exterminated at will?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Much worse in my opinion. Ten thousand times worse. There is NO excuse for being anti-woman. Period. I'd rather see a thousand babies aborted than a woman abused or told she wasn't "good" enough or "smart" enough to do anything in life she wanted.

reply from: sander

Only a self righteous, ego maniac would write such dribble.
A thousand babies...why not more, why not all of them, why stop at only 1,000 to feed your ego?

reply from: LiberalChiRo

How is women's rights MY ego? Only a MAN who has been fed sexists lies his whole life would write such dribble as you.

reply from: Rhiannontex

Liberal, you're talking as if getting pregnant somehow utterly destroys a woman's ability to reason and to perform difficult tasks. Tell me, have you ever heard of Lillian Gilbreth? She was the wife of Frank Gilbreth and had 12 children by him. She was also a pioneer in her field and is still honored today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillian_Gilbreth She is but ONE example of how it is quite possible for women to be both mothers and career women.

reply from: sander

YOU are the one that would see ONE THOUSAND dead babies rather than....fill in the crap lines as you will, that takes some kind of massive ego mania to even think such a thought. Listen, you dolt, I'm not a man, I'm a woman who knows exactly the strength and courage it takes to face up to one's responsibilities, bare children, hold down a job and stay married, happily, to the same man 38 years.
You don't have women's right's cornered and only an ego maniac would vomit out the thing you just did....A THOUSAND babies dead is better......there IS NOTHING that warrants a THOUSAND dead babies, nothing...not you, not YOUR massive ego, nothing. Only a weak willed, woman would even consider such a horrible thing and actually say it.
I'm ashamed of women like you that make our gender appear stupid, cowards, and too weak to consider anyone but themeselves.

reply from: carolemarie

I think that no woman should be oppressed, abused, told she isn't good enough . Anti woman behavior is wrong.
So is abortion. It isn't an either or thing.
I oppose both things. It is completely logical to be pro-woman and pro-life.

reply from: Faramir

Well, this is not really ever a choice is it?
It's not as if a woman who aborts is suddenly "good enough" when she wasn't before the abortion.
I don't want to see anyone be anti-woman, but how can you compare 1,000 dead babies to one woman with poor self esteem?
You do realize that 500 of those you would sacrifice are "little women" don't you? How anti-woman is THAT?

reply from: 4given

Do they have a mandatory psych evaluation before they allow you to roam the halls at the elementary school where you "teach'? Such lunacy is frightening.. Sounds like something a hard-core pro-abort would say.. And here you are trying to pass yourself off as a religious abortion with exceptions choicer... tsk tsk.

reply from: 4given

That is horrible if some people think that way, but how much worse is it to think that a child in the womb is so much "the lesser" that it could be exterminated at will?
By George!

reply from: yoda

Like hell it is........ you've been asleep since '73, right?

reply from: yoda

True. And your point would be...........???????

reply from: yoda

How exactly do you predict when someone is going to "go insane"?

reply from: yoda

Okay, you can stop this dribble about being "prolife" now, okay?

reply from: sander

Okay, you can stop this dribble about being "prolife" now, okay?
Ya think!
My, my....the things that come pouring out of the mouths of death lovers still astounds me...just when you think you've heard it ALL...along comes this one and a thousand babies should die...die, I tell you, die!!!

reply from: All4Life

Doesn't the liberal school teacher realize that killing all those babies would put her out of a job? All those poor (the sympathy I feel in my heart for the children that learn from someone like her ) children had to be born before they could grow up to be subjected to the thoughts of such a person. Here is the outcome of the self esteem movement " your smart enough, your good enough, and gosh darn it, if people disagree with you, than they deserve to die, or at least suffer in court"

reply from: faithman

Okay, you can stop this dribble about being "prolife" now, okay?
Ya think!
My, my....the things that come pouring out of the mouths of death lovers still astounds me...just when you think you've heard it ALL...along comes this one and a thousand babies should die...die, I tell you, die!!!
Oh my gosh!!!! you shouldn't talk about CM's convert like that. I think they are going over to vexings for a little slice of fun later.

reply from: sander

Yep, you hit the nail on the head, she's clearly a product of "SELF-esteem, it's all about ME, MYSELF and I, then later we'll talk about ME some more. And if a thousand babies must die in the process....oh well.

reply from: faithman

Yep, you hit the nail on the head, she's clearly a product of "SELF-esteem, it's all about ME, MYSELF and I, then later we'll talk about ME some more. And if a thousand babies must die in the process....oh well.
You mean little haters you!!!!

reply from: sander

No doubt that's the PC way of describing people who speak the truth. It's the "let a thousand babies die" crowd that will be labeled as kind, thoughtful, compassionate people. Sickening.

reply from: sander

Eyes going as bad as your thought process, spinwad?

reply from: All4Life

Sander, it seems to me that most pro-baby killers couldn't even begin to imagine the kind of strength and courage (and oh such sweet reward for it!) that it takes to rear children. Especially in this day and age, as the world spins further and further into self worship. Adam and Eve, such a simple story and yet still people are falling for the serpents lie "eat it, eat the fruit and you will be a god". How do you convince someone that thinks they are a god themselves that killing children is wrong? I sure hope we can figure that one out soon.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Well, this is not really ever a choice is it?
It's not as if a woman who aborts is suddenly "good enough" when she wasn't before the abortion.
I don't want to see anyone be anti-woman, but how can you compare 1,000 dead babies to one woman with poor self esteem?
You do realize that 500 of those you would sacrifice are "little women" don't you? How anti-woman is THAT?
I honestly have no idea what you're blathering about anymore...
And I'm not talking about a woman with low-self esteem. I'm talking about a woman who has been told since the say she is born that she is worthless as a thinker, that she's stupider than men, that she's weaker, slower, and that all she's good for is popping out babies.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Of course it is possible, but it is also possible to be anti-woman and pro-life. It's just a hypocritical position.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Huh? I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm talking about people who are anti-woman, who think women are worthless breeding machines. I have no idea where you got the idea I think pregnancy makes women deranged.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

How exactly do you predict when someone is going to "go insane"?
It was just an example of an exception for which abortion should be allowed.

reply from: sander

50+ million dead babies later, and the blood lust is as strong as ever, precisley because of the lack of courage and strength these baby killers possess. How easy is it to kill someone who can't defend themselves? How powerful does it make one feel to offer one's own child up for sacrifice on a whim, for their "OWN" betterment, their "OWN" desires, their "OWN" needs. They come first, last and always, self sacrifice is foreign to those who would be god.

reply from: carolemarie

Nobody feels like that Sandler! That is your spin on what you think women who choose abortion are feeling.
Trapped, scared, backed into a corner, not willing to raise children right now, unable to feed yourself, loss of job, marriage ending....all reasons that women chose abortion. It is sin, and all sin is ugly and sin has it's roots in pride and selfishness....not just abortion.
It is more complicated than "they are selfish and full of blood lust and think they are God".
If it wasn't legal, there would be only a fraction of the 1.2 million we have now. The key factor in driving the numbers is legality.

reply from: faithman

Includding justice for those who pay to have it done. Other wise the promise of justice for all is empty at best.

reply from: nancyu

That is a LIE, CM. You know it is. Of course there are some (maybe even many) who feel backed into a corner. But there are just as many who have no regret, no remorse, only a sense of power and control that they don't want to give up.
Take off your rose colored all women are victims glasses for a moment, and you might see the truth.

reply from: carolemarie

That is a LIE, CM. You know it is. Of course there are some (maybe even many) who feel backed into a corner. But there are just as many who have no regret, no remorse, only a sense of power and control that they don't want to give up.
Take off your rose colored all women are victims glasses for a moment, and you might see the truth.
I don't think they are victims. I think they are duped.
If you would quit hating them and try to understand them, you might become equiped to reach them.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Pfft, but he'll never actually ASK one of them or they might infect him with common sense!
It's true that straight up making it illegal will lower the numbers because 90% of abortions are elective. I don't see that happening until our culture changes.

reply from: nancyu

That is a LIE, CM. You know it is. Of course there are some (maybe even many) who feel backed into a corner. But there are just as many who have no regret, no remorse, only a sense of power and control that they don't want to give up.
Take off your rose colored all women are victims glasses for a moment, and you might see the truth.
I don't think they are victims. I think they are duped.
If you would quit hating them and try to understand them, you might become equiped to reach them.
Stop calling me a hater. You're the hater! I don't even hate you. I just intensely dislike you, because you are a phony pro lifer who would throw away 9 out of 10 babies to avoid putting one woman in jail, or taking away her precious birth control pills. Because they are all innocent, aren't they? They are all duped. Just like you are. You're still duped into thinking abortion is legal, aren't you?

reply from: Faramir

Me too, nancyu. I think abortion is legal as well.
Show me that it's not, and PLEASE tell your local authorities, since you know something the rest of us do not, including the cops. But you could get abortion stopped in your area immediately once you inform them.

reply from: LiberalChiRo

Good evening, Faramir!

reply from: faithman

You call yourself catholic, and yet you ignore the teaching of your church. Augustine has already posted offical teaching from the church that states when man's law violates God's, man's law is not legitimate. RvW is bad law, that was unconstitutionally forced upon us. It is an unjust ruling, and should never be considered anything close to "legal". It violates the very first right our founding documant secures. The right to life. Abortion is illegal, no matter how much a renegade court, and dumb asses like you want to say to the contrary. Of course the police are not going to do their job, because the are part of an illegal government that sanctions the murdering of it's citizens it was ordained to protect. But of course phony neo-lifers would have a problem with truth.

reply from: Faramir

You call yourself catholic, and yet you ignore the teaching of your church. Augustine has already posted offical teaching from the church that states when man's law violates God's, man's law is not legitimate. RvW is bad law, that was unconstitutionally forced upon us. It is an unjust ruling, and should never be considered anything close to "legal". It violates the very first right our founding documant secures. The right to life. Abortion is illegal, no matter how much a renegade court, and dumb asses like you want to say to the contrary. Of course the police are not going to do their job, because the are part of an illegal government that sanctions the murdering of it's citizens it was ordained to protect. But of course phony neo-lifers would have a problem with truth.
Then homosexuality is illegal too.
And so is this use of condoms.
And so is masturbating.

reply from: faithman

You call yourself catholic, and yet you ignore the teaching of your church. Augustine has already posted offical teaching from the church that states when man's law violates God's, man's law is not legitimate. RvW is bad law, that was unconstitutionally forced upon us. It is an unjust ruling, and should never be considered anything close to "legal". It violates the very first right our founding documant secures. The right to life. Abortion is illegal, no matter how much a renegade court, and dumb asses like you want to say to the contrary. Of course the police are not going to do their job, because the are part of an illegal government that sanctions the murdering of it's citizens it was ordained to protect. But of course phony neo-lifers would have a problem with truth.
Then homosexuality is illegal too.
And so is this use of condoms.
And so is masturbating.
Now you are getting it. It is about time you quit being catholic in name only.

reply from: carolemarie

Quit lying about what I believe.
My positions has been the same --punish the dr and ban performing an abortion.
And we may need the exception for rape and incest to pass a bill.
That would outlaw closer to 98 percent of all abortions.
I like that better than no babies saved.

reply from: carolemarie

You call yourself catholic, and yet you ignore the teaching of your church. Augustine has already posted offical teaching from the church that states when man's law violates God's, man's law is not legitimate. RvW is bad law, that was unconstitutionally forced upon us. It is an unjust ruling, and should never be considered anything close to "legal". It violates the very first right our founding documant secures. The right to life. Abortion is illegal, no matter how much a renegade court, and dumb asses like you want to say to the contrary. Of course the police are not going to do their job, because the are part of an illegal government that sanctions the murdering of it's citizens it was ordained to protect. But of course phony neo-lifers would have a problem with truth.
Now the government is illegal????
Get a grip Faithman!
Soon you will be sporting a tin foil hat to keep the aliens from reading your mind....

reply from: nancyu

Outlawing 100 % of abortions would be better still. How could you not want rape/incest abortions outlawed? Are unborn conceived from rape less worthy of protection?

reply from: carolemarie

Outlawing 100 % of abortions would be better still. How could you not want rape/incest abortions outlawed? Are unborn conceived from rape less worthy of protection?
We can't pass a bill without exceptions. That is why. In case you were unaware, our nation is deeply divided over abortion, the proife side can't pass the bill if it is stringent. Without the exceptions, abortion will stay legal.


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