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Pro Choice!

For those that are short sighted and pro life!

by: Utilitarian

What is your problem? Why do you feel the need to stand outside of clinics with pictures of aborted babies? First, you have no idea what that person has been through. 2nd, you are not God. 3rd, what do you think happens to all the unwanted babies? They go on and live life to the fullest? Do you actually think adoption works every single time? OH! I know what is better than adoption! FOSTER HOMES! Yes! I love it when an unwanted baby suffers through abusive parents and is forced into an foster home or are forced into a foster home right at the start because the parents are not suitable to take care of a baby. Thats the best because you know what happens most of the time to unwanted babies?! OOOO! OOO! I DO! I DO! ABUSE AT A VERY YOUNG AGE!!! WOOHOOO!!! Do you know what that can lead to? DRUG ABUSE AND DISRESPECT FOR THE BODY! (such as prostitution, sex addiction, or psychotic problems). Now that sounds like fun doesn't it? The best part of it, who pays for the unwanted babies? Oh... Thats right, THE GOVERNMENT! Do you want to take care of the babies? I see you standing outside of the clinics but I don't see you adopting every chance you get or trying to help the unwanted babies. No, what I see you doing is trying to look better to other people and more "holy." I don't see you going through the foster system, finding the children or TEENAGERS that have been in the system the most and helping them out. NOPE! I see you worrying about none existing people. The human brain will find what it wants to find to support a single side. Well you know what? I will see you all in hell if it even exists. You need to realize that maybe each side is wrong and that butting into other's business because you think they are "wrong." YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE WRONG FOR THINKING YOU ARE BETTER THAN SOMEONE ELSE!

reply from: Faramir

If you've been observing this forum for any length of time, I can see where you get the idea that some prolifers think "they are better" than others.
But that doesn't change the fact that from a prolife perspective there is the objective reality that a person is unjustly killed by an abortion.
Justice demands that those who cannot defend themselves be defended.
Adoption and all those other things are good, but it does not follow that if someone prevents a murder, he is obligated to adopt the would-be victim.

reply from: teddybearhamster

i don't think i'm better than you. i used to share your views not long ago. i know the foster system is far from perfect but try actually looking at some of those abortion photos. no person deserves that.

reply from: yoda

My problem is that 4,000 INNOCENT unborn babies are being killed everyday in those clinics. Why do YOU not have a problem with that?
What is YOUR problem that you are so cold and uncaring about this slaughter?

reply from: sk1bianca

pro-lifers don't help unwanted babies? where did you get that? do you have proof to sustain your acusations? pro-lifers in my country not only help the babies, they also help their mothers.
most unwanted children become abused? any evidence? statistics?
unborn children are non existing people?... right... they miraculosly start to "exist" in the moment of birth...

reply from: yoda

"U-boy" thinks s/he should be able to "see them" helping unwanted babies, as if prolifers all wore big signs on them..... or as if s/he was anywhere near places where that is happening..... fat chance of that.

reply from: xnavy

Utilitarian, you don't know what you are talking about, prolifers care about the women and the babies. crisis pregnancy centers help women
while they are pregnant and after the baby is born. prolifers care about ALL life BOTH BORN AND UNBORN, UNLIKE PROCHOICERS.

reply from: nancyu

We would do the same for any mill where people were being "legally" killed.
An unborn child is a person.

reply from: jujujellybean

OMG we got another one. NO ONE is saying adoption works every time. NO ONE is saying that foster homes always work. NO ONE is saying that it is without problems. The whole system has a lot. But NO ONE is also saying that being dead and chopped to pieces is better.
NO ONE is denying that does happen. But that isn't a reason to kill it. I know so many people who have done foster care, a little boy esp. who is my best friend's little bro now; he is going to do great things, and they love him so much. What if his mom, who knew she couldn't care for him, had done an abortion? He sure wouldn't be here right now.
My family has five kids; my dad has a very small salary; we renovated our house and will be in debt till he dies; we would not be able to take care of a baby. And how would you know that in the first place??? I help the unwanted babies a lot, along with the mother that chose to keep them; we also sponsored a child for a while in Columbia and now he doesn't need our help anymore; we had given him his life back.
Non existing people? It's alive, you know, and is a person! And when did you see that? As long as they don't kill the baby, they can be any religion or not a religion; the child that could die is what matters at the moment. And once again, a baseless assumption.
Oh that's great. This guy accuses US of being God and then claims we are all going to hell. That turned over to him pretty quick. And I don't think I am better than anyone. We are all equal. That includes babies, though, and they DON'T deserve to die.

reply from: Faramir

That was a great post, juju.

reply from: Beprolifewithme

I've never ever ever seen a prolifer post that they are god. I think it be hard to ignore the fact that TONS OF BABIES ARE DYING EVERY SINGLE DAY IN THOSE STUPID MILLS!!! You can't ignore death, or find a way around it like you are. And 2nd of all, where the heck to you get that they live LIFE to the fullest!??!?! THEY DON'T EVEN GET A CHANCE TO LIVE!! They HAVE NO LIFE ON EARTH, THEY ARE KILLED AT THE so called "CLINICS"!!! and go vent somehwere else with your evil prochoice views, we are here to save the babies.

reply from: sander

Here, here!
Your whole reply was well said, Beprolifewithme!

reply from: Utilitarian

you are here to save babies? Ok that makes sense. But once the baby is saved, do you want to pay for it? Do you want to take care of the babies until they are ready to go out on their own? I don't think so.... You have to think about the greater good and what is right for society. Burdening the government with unwanted children is just not right. Yes they are alive, but you have to think what is right and better for society and the greater good. Living in the suburbs it is so easy for you to say "save babies!" Live in the ghetto and raise a baby there. I want you to do one thing. Interview and prostitute and a crack addict and ask them how they were raised. More than likely they were unwanted, abused, foster kids, or not one of those rare great adoption stories. For every one great adoption and successful story, there are thousands of horrible, gut wrenching, hell raising stories about a life that shouldn't even be there. My mother is a child sex abuse investigator. So I know what happens to unwanted children. I know what goes on in the houses where children are just not appreciated or loved. It is HORRIBLE and death is better than what they are put through. Raise your hand if you were sexually assaulted as a 5 year old! OK OK! Now raise your hand if you were physically abused (beaten and whipped) until you pass out! NICE! OK! YEAH! FUN! btw, you want a stat? Suicide is the biggest burden in the foster system. 1/5 children that stay in the foster system until they are 18 commit suicide. Where does that stat come from? The Foster system of Montgomery County Maryland.

reply from: Utilitarian

heres an idea, The world is evil. World hunger? Know why it exists? The U.S. produces enough food for the entire world to eat. But you know why the US doesn't feed the world? Because the government buys food to keep prices competitive and so farmers don't go bankrupt. THE WORLD IS ALL ABOUT MONEY! Let me ask again, do you want to help pay and raise all the unwanted babies that you supposedly "save?"

reply from: Utilitarian

the "demons" that are tormenting me are you people and how short sighted you are. Did i say kill all babies? No. Am I saying kill a baby that can't be raised by its own parents? Sure. Is it called NATURAL SELECTION! I BELIEVE SO! You are my demons. You religious freaks are my demons. The people that find some sort of reason for force their views on others as my demons' You might think you are right and maybe Jesus and protesting abortion is what works for you and what you think is right. But NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU! Unhappy? is that the best word you can choose to describe what abuse and drug addiction makes people? Unhappy? So you describe abortion is the god awful action that needs to be stopped. You put descriptions of abortion on signs and flyers. But abuse and drug addiction and self bodily harm is just bring "unhappy?' You need to hit reality. Stop living up in the sky and come back to reality. Go drive through a ghetto, preferably and red light district. Then tell me you want to save people. WHEN YOU SEE HOW EVIL, DISGUSTING, AND DOWN RIGHT WRONG PEOPLE CAN GET, YOU DON'T WANT TO SAVE THEM ANYMORE.

reply from: jujujellybean

thank you very much. So far, no response...how much you wanna bet I won't be honored with one?

reply from: jujujellybean

Dude, are you for real? Seriously? I mean, most of the pro choicers I've met aren't this crazy; I have NEVER seen someone say they don't want to save them because of their actions; they at least try to come up with something a little better. Geez, are you sure you're not some kind of spammer or something???

reply from: jujujellybean

SOOOO we should just kill them before they get a chance to kill themselves? And what about the 4/5 of the kids that don't? Should we kill them, JUST IN CASE?

reply from: jujujellybean

lol for some reason they think all pro lifers are religious. drives me crazy.

reply from: yoda

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? This one comes off like a homicidal maniac. His/her answer to every problem is more killing.....

reply from: galen

----------------------------------
yet another rant from a very angry person... go fix your life then come back here... you can not be a crusader for your cause if you can't think clearly.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

i don't think i'm better than you. i used to share your views not long ago. i know the foster system is far from perfect but try actually looking at some of those abortion photos. no person deserves that.
have you even questioned the authenticity of those photos?

reply from: galen

you obviously have... but wait kay didn't you question just about everything EXCEPT why we should not murder our children?

reply from: xnavy

abortion has not cured child abuse and never will.

reply from: sander

Give us your idea of what an aborted child really looks like? Do you think when they are dis-membered they somehow are not covered in blood with body parts missing or mutilated?
Come on, draw us a picture if you must, but tell us what a child that has been sucked into a jar, or had his or her spine crushed or skull punctured suppose to look like.
I eagerly await your anwswer.

reply from: sander

But, but, that's what the proaborts promised! You mean to tell me they were lying! Why, I'm shocked I tell you, just shocked!

reply from: sander

Give us your idea of what an aborted child really looks like? Do you think when they are dis-membered they somehow are not covered in blood with body parts missing or mutilated?
Come on, draw us a picture if you must, but tell us what a child that has been sucked into a jar, or had his or her spine crushed or skull punctured suppose to look like.
I eagerly await your anwswer.
Waiting, Kay....what are aborted babies suppose to look like?

reply from: Banned Member

What is your problem? Why do you feel the need to stand outside of clinics with pictures of aborted babies? First, you have no idea what that person has been through. 2nd, you are not God. 3rd, what do you think happens to all the unwanted babies? They go on and live life to the fullest? Do you actually think adoption works every single time? OH! I know what is better than adoption! FOSTER HOMES! Yes! I love it when an unwanted baby suffers through abusive parents and is forced into an foster home or are forced into a foster home right at the start because the parents are not suitable to take care of a baby. Thats the best because you know what happens most of the time to unwanted babies?! OOOO! OOO! I DO! I DO! ABUSE AT A VERY YOUNG AGE!!! WOOHOOO!!! Do you know what that can lead to? DRUG ABUSE AND DISRESPECT FOR THE BODY! (such as prostitution, sex addiction, or psychotic problems). Now that sounds like fun doesn't it? The best part of it, who pays for the unwanted babies? Oh... Thats right, THE GOVERNMENT! Do you want to take care of the babies? I see you standing outside of the clinics but I don't see you adopting every chance you get or trying to help the unwanted babies. No, what I see you doing is trying to look better to other people and more "holy." I don't see you going through the foster system, finding the children or TEENAGERS that have been in the system the most and helping them out. NOPE! I see you worrying about none existing people. The human brain will find what it wants to find to support a single side. Well you know what? I will see you all in hell if it even exists. You need to realize that maybe each side is wrong and that butting into other's business because you think they are "wrong." YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE WRONG FOR THINKING YOU ARE BETTER THAN SOMEONE ELSE!
My problem is abortion to the tune of 4000 and more per day. People stand outside of abortion clinics for the same reason that people once fought to end slavery, once marched for equality among the races and so that all races and people might receive and expect the same dignity as human persons. I do not think that all unaborted persons go on to live full lives. It is true that many people do not live complete fulfilling lives whether they were once considered for abortion or not. I am deeply disturbed that anyone considers affluency to be the same as wantedness or worthiness in this world. Many people who are poor are great. Many who have money do not respect life, even their own lives. I think that where a person is a human person and is shown love, or is capable of showing love, they might make something of their lives. The culture of abortion, is the culture of death. Abortion does not lead to the culture of death. Abortion is symptomatic of the culture of death and nearly always begins with the destruction of the family. But even where families are challenged or are completely absent, there is still hope for some good thing to come of a persons life. We cannot sonsign some people to death and others to life based on our assessment of whether they might become happy fulfilled people. I don't care who pays for the unwanted babies. The right to live is not based upon ones material means. It is no crime to grow up poor. Should we have to not only tell people not to kill their children, but to raise them as well? Many do however, and many do not have ideal childhoods but where there is life there is a chance, even in the worst of conditions. It is never wrong to desire that a human being might have the chnace to be born. Every concieved person has the right to be born and those that take their lives commit murder. I am not better than anyone for knowing the truth, that each and every conceived life is a human person.

reply from: sander

Give us your idea of what an aborted child really looks like? Do you think when they are dis-membered they somehow are not covered in blood with body parts missing or mutilated?
Come on, draw us a picture if you must, but tell us what a child that has been sucked into a jar, or had his or her spine crushed or skull punctured suppose to look like.
I eagerly await your anwswer.
Kay...where are you????
That's okay....I know how to bump a thread with the best of them.
You may just be getting your crayons together...don't forget the red one.

reply from: jujujellybean

i don't think i'm better than you. i used to share your views not long ago. i know the foster system is far from perfect but try actually looking at some of those abortion photos. no person deserves that.
have you even questioned the authenticity of those photos?
NO ONE has been able to answer this question yet: what the heck is a fake photo? I still don't get that one!

reply from: sander

I sent her packing to get her crayons so she can draw us a picture of what a real aborted baby looks like.
She must not forget her RED crayon.

reply from: sander

Give us your idea of what an aborted child really looks like? Do you think when they are dis-membered they somehow are not covered in blood with body parts missing or mutilated?
Come on, draw us a picture if you must, but tell us what a child that has been sucked into a jar, or had his or her spine crushed or skull punctured suppose to look like.
I eagerly await your anwswer.
*taps fingers while waiting*
Tell us all about how aborted babies are suppose to look like.
As a proabort, surely you have all the answers.

reply from: galen

still waiting for the kaymeister to show her true colours....

reply from: sander

She sure likes to duck and run when she's confronted. Maybe someday she'll figure out that the proabort movement has been lying to her and countless other women all these years.
Maybe she forgot her red crayon after all. Can't draw a picture of an aborted baby without one.

reply from: galen

nope...
but maybe she's colour blind and that's why she thinks the pics are fakes... i mean really...even the recent ones?

reply from: sander

It's extremley sad to see a young person so duped and so steeped into the proabort propaganda that she refuses to see what her very eyes tell her is true.
But, I'm not wasting my sympathy on anyone but the babies that she denies are chopped into pieces and somehow escape being covered in blood.

reply from: 4given

That is as much as I need to address right now.. Currenly my problem is with lunatics, such as yourself that obviously have deeper issues, probably related to guilt over killing their child or close to it.. coming to a public forum to help us understand their weak justifications for advocating the slaughter of innocent human lives.. You obviously have some anger issues and probably should address them with the proper mental health professionals. I am sure they will tell you that it isn't healthy to go to public forums and invite controversy. If you tone it down and actually want to discuss, I am sure there are many that will engage you.

reply from: 4given

Kayla. She was not foolishly misguided enough to buy into the same propaganda you did. If you don't like the after shots of the aborted babies kay, you can watch the limbs come off here: It is difficult to "fake" an abortion in progress. Here is something special for you.
http://abortionno.com/

reply from: galen

yeah.. i don't think kay will watch... she is just to chicken livered to actually do that.

reply from: Utilitarian

Juju, you want a response? you're ugly. hows that? Augustine, that is a great post. So I will be talking to you from now on and you only. What about natural selection? Yes we are humans and have the ability to raise everyone, but we also have wants that over power needs. People need food, but die to starvation everyday. People need shelter but millions of people are homeless in the United States alone. People need medical attention and can't afford it. So what people need they just can't get. Reason? They can't afford it. So if we can't afford to sustain a life that was not wanted by the people responsible in the first place, why should I suffer for people's mistakes? I don't want my hard earned money going to over flowing foster homes and adoption centers because abortion is made illegal. Another problem is black market abortions. Why not have legal, safe abortion available so that people don't have coat hanger abortions? Thats one of the main purposes behind legal abortion, to provide a safe option to people that need an abortion. I can see where there are problems for you people when a person that actually has the ability to raise a child aborts it. But, what about those rare cases that actually do happen. A rape child, a child that reminds a woman everyday of the worst possible act that has happen to her. What about crack babies or junk box babies or alcoholic babies or HIV positive babies? What about the mentally retarded? I know these are still people, but they are a major burden on society and the progression of society. Maybe this is an evil way of looking at humans but if you look at the big picture, we are still animals, we still have primal thoughts. We still need to progress for our own safety. (I don't care about anyone else who replies to this post besides augustine.

reply from: 4given

How many children are allowed per qualifying person in a foster home?
Just who needs an abortion ? What do you know about "coat hanger abortions"? Who do you suppose performed the abortions pre-roe?
What do you define as a "major burden"? And how many mentally retarded people do you know?
And that justifies denying the unborn a (their) right to life?

reply from: galen

oh so he is afraid of the rest of us... hmmm i have to differ with the abortion is safe because its legal statement.. Abortion is probably worse off now than it was in the '50s because there is NO regulation on it. Women are told its safe and won't affect them and any future pregnancies... but look at how many women are suing their abortionist in just the last 2 years.. sueing for scarring that keeps them from having the child they want now.
Once again i think you are an angry ranter who does not have his/ her facts straight.
Go get PROOF of your safety.
I'll back it with my PROOF of its butchery.

reply from: 4given

Care to ask the mother of that child? We have a poster that can answer that for you, or I can have someone close to me address that point as well..
They don't deserve to live? I re-read your posts and happened upon more of the innocent victims of your discrimination. What do you know about these babies that you are supposedly saving by advocating their demise?

reply from: jujujellybean

thanks? geez, you can't even defend your views, and you can't dispute my arguments, so you once again make a baseless assumption. Guess a reply was too much to hope for.

reply from: galen

sorry juju looks like you scared him off...
for all his ranting he can't even come up with a good insult.

reply from: sander

The only solution is start a government ran firing squad. That way all the un-desireables will be eliminated.
I nominate YOU first.
Now, where did those blind folds go?
And too stinking bad who you want to respond. Get your own website then you can be the little dictator that you want to be.

reply from: sander

thanks? geez, you can't even defend your views, and you can't dispute my arguments, so you once again make a baseless assumption. Guess a reply was too much to hope for.
We've had some sick, stupid posters here, but this nutcase needs a mental health exam, but quick.
You outwitted him, Juju. Good job!

reply from: Banned Member

Natural selection? I don't believe that natural selection applies to human beings at this point, regardless of what people may think of our social evolution. We have moved beyond evolution and any natural selection now would more closely resemble social Darwinism, capitalistic and social survival of the fittest and in turn, indifference to poverty and suffering and ultimately death itself.
My needs, and I think the need of others, are more than just material and I believe that we need to better the human condition by acknowledging the value of each and every human being. We could never do this by abortion and human euthanasia. Ironically in the interest of being compassionate, we have now often refused to give help to people who most need help; the homeless and even the hungry, because we don't want to declare people incapable of taking care of themselves. So what happens? No one takes care of these people. They are left in the margins of a society that prides itself on its wealth and progress; left to suffer hunger, homelessness, and drug and alcohol use while being neglected for the mental and physical health they so very much need.
Our greatest problem lies not in our physical or monetary inability to care for people however, but our inability to properly distribute the great wealth that we have. Many people, I would say a great many have abortions for instance, not out of an inability to care for children from the standpoint of money, but for a lack of desire to care for children, either because they do not want children ata ll, or feel they do not have the time or desire for more children.
I don't want my tax dollars paying for poor peoples abortions any more than I want rich people to have abortions they don't even have the faintest excuse for. Abortion is wrong enough and dangerous enough that I think that whoever is willing to risk their life for an unsafe abortion is responsible for the consequences. Like one person said, rapists don't have a right to desire health safety, why should a murderer?
Children aborted for reasons of sexual assault? are still wrong. Killing the resulting child does not change the memory of the rape and only adds the trauma of the abortion to the trauma of the rape. The unborn person in no way should have to pay for the sins of their biological father, even if that person is a rapist.
As far as aborting for reason of the childs health, or potential health? That amounts to eugenics and is the most frightening version of unnatural selection imaginable. The burden of such people is small compared to our need to be compassionate and for their need for compassion. We are more than animals, and rightly desire and should desire to be more as humans, than simply creatures centered on living out an existance that seeks the least amount of hardship for ourselves. To abort the sick, and the handicapped, or to euthanasia the sick or the old is not progress, it is regression to barbarity and callous inhumanism.

reply from: sander

Could you explain a little more of what you mean by, "our inability to properly distribute the great wealth we have"?
Sounds alot like something I hear coming from the dems and some ideologies that are based on the "common good".

reply from: Banned Member

I am not for taxing the rich if that is what you mean. I think that personal wealth is a right and that we can only compel people to be charitable by example and appeal. And I think that many people are charitable. That's not to say that charities always use that money as efficiently as they can.
Howver! Our governments at the local, state and federal levels often waste large amounts of money on all sorts of bogus projects, studies, and organizations that have very little to show for their activities. It's aslo an obsene commentary on our society when one considers the vast amount of money that it takes to run for an elected office these days and the higher the office, the greater the amount of money. I am not certain how that it ever going to change though.
I certainly don't mean wealth redistribution the way the Dems consider it. Tax the rich and give a handout to some of the poor.
I have been hearing that the Democrats are going to fight for the poor for a very long time and the only time I see the poor do better is when they can actually keep more of the money that they work to earn. The poor have only been exploited for the purposes of vote gathering.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

I am not going to repeat myself again. I told you guys many times why I think those pictures are fake.

reply from: sander

I am not for taxing the rich if that is what you mean. I think that personal wealth is a right and that we can only compel people to be charitable by example and appeal. And I think that many people are charitable. That's not to say that charities always use that money as efficiently as they can.
Howver! Our governments at the local, state and federal levels often waste large amounts of money on all sorts of bogus projects, studies, and organizations that have very little to show for their activities. It's aslo an obsene commentary on our society when one considers the vast amount of money that it takes to run for an elected office these days and the higher the office, the greater the amount of money. I am not certain how that it ever going to change though.
I certainly don't mean wealth redistribution the way the Dems consider it. Tax the rich and give a handout to some of the poor.
Whew...I didn't think so, but you know how those "catch phrases" catch the attention sometimes!
I agree completely with your commentary, in both posts.

reply from: sander

Well, then tell us how an aborted baby should look.
Enlighten us poor duped believers.

reply from: 4given

Kayla- you just want attention! Look at a "fake" being made: http://abortionno.com/

reply from: sander

Well, then tell us how an aborted baby should look.
Enlighten us poor duped believers.
*tapping fingers waiting...again*
If those pictures don't show how an aborted baby looks, WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE?

reply from: Banned Member

Perhaps because you want them to be? These are not UFO pictures. They are aborted babies... a few of 1.5 million per year that occur every year; more than 4000 per day.

reply from: sander

Well, then tell us how an aborted baby should look.
Enlighten us poor duped believers.
*tapping fingers waiting...again*
If those pictures don't show how an aborted baby looks, WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE?
I hope you're just in the middle of a reply. Because I know you must have proof as to what an aborted baby really looks like.
We need to be straightened out, so tell us, what does an aborted baby really look like?
Pretty please!

reply from: galen

kay's just afraid to watch the video...

reply from: AshMarie88

Not everyone stands outside clinics, and not all pro-lifers who stand outside them carry photos of aborted babies. It's very silly to make that assumption.
Which person? The woman or the baby about to have its life taken away for ever by slaughter?
Also, painful life experience isn't justification to allow them to kill. It's wrong and barbaric.
I know, and neither are you. You're not God, so you have no right to take away a child's life for any reason. And pro-lifers, aren't trying to be God, we're just trying to save people from being slaughtered. If that's trying to be God then war protesters and Holocaust protesters must be Jesus for speaking against the murders...
How do you know most of those "unwanted" babies don't live their lives to the fullest? Whether or not they are raised in a bad and abusive environment (that's not every case AND you cannot judge someone's experiences for them), you can't say every kid in that situation would turn out bad or not enjoy life.
The only full life you should judge is YOUR OWN. You can't decide for ME if *I* want to live or not! That's not up to YOU, it's up to THEM! The INDIVIDUAL!
It's sure damn better than being a dead corpse in a random dumpster somewhere in the world.
Many children adopted are taken in and loved by parents just as much as if they were their biological children. Yes there are kids still in the adoption process, but do you know how hard it is nowadays to adopt a child? You have NO IDEA!
Being tossed around from family to family is bad, but think about it. They do have homes to go to. They're not out on the streets, homeless, in major danger. And truthfully, the majority of foster homes are NOT abusive. Some are yes, because for some reason, those foster "parents" escape the process of a background check. Most do not, most are clean.
"Most of the time"? MOST kids are NOT abused, for the last time! And MOST kids cannot be adopted because of the stupid "qualification" process difficulties!
It's been proven that people brought up in good homes and backgrounds end up doing the same thing. I wonder why?
I don't see your major point here...
Before you go making more ASSumptions, listen to this...
One, lots of pro-lifers are all for adopting kids themselves. Pro-lifers have and do still. Not every single pro-lifer can for some obvious reasons (Age, money, etc.), but many do. To say that EVERY pro-lifer should be adopting every unwanted child out there is such a bullcrap sentence. If you pro-choice people care so much about these children in foster care and the adoption process, why aren't you out there adopting as well? I don't see YOU, Utilitarian, adopting any unwanted kids yourself. Why is that?
Two, once again, the adoption process is hard and sometimes nearly impossible. There are so many people on waiting lists ready to become parents and yet they're about ignored. Many people wait many months, even many YEARS, and STILL cannot become adoptive parents. Sick, isn't it? If you want more unwanted babies to be adopted, maybe you choicers should help us work towards making the adoption process faster, cheaper, and easier, instead of sitting there on your computers complaining about how none of us are adopting any babies ourselves.
Three, and for my last point, I'll just say that not every person standing up for adoption wants kids. And for the ones that do, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to adopt a child or more if they could. Many of the women that put their babies up for adoption cannot afford to raise a child, so they adopt them out to someone who can afford to raise her child and will be a good parent. And that's why pro-lifers also stand outside of clinics, to help save the babies as well as the women. Many of those people, also, help out the same women by giving them free baby things and even take them in to places for pregnant women, temporary pregnancy housing if you will. Plenty of places do offer that, and help women get on their feet so they can make a life for themselves and their children. If you'd work WITH US instead of AGAINST us to make the adoption process easier and help stop women from potentially making a bad or the worst choice, maybe we'd see more children being adopted and less children actually being put up for adoption. And in which case I have to say, support your local pregnancy care centers! Thanks to them for all their hard work and care to women and children that receive their care.
Nope. What we're trying to do is stop the slaughter of over 3,500 babies every day in this country, and millions alone every day worldwide. That's not looking better or being "holy". I don't even know what you mean by "holy". If you mean religious and "controlling", then well I'm sorry to say that not every pro-lifer is religious.
Once again, complaining about how we pro-lifers aren't adopting any babies, and yet not doing anything yourself to improve the situation for those same babies and teens.
Uh, what??
Oh, you mean like you? You're doing a pretty good job of that yourself there Junior.
How mature, telling us we're going to hell. Ha, proves our point that your side has problems.
Well next time you see a mother on a random street beating her two year old baby for spilling some milk, don't bother to butt into her business, because it's her child and her choice to beat that child. Don't call the cops, don't try and stop her, just let her be. Maybe she's happy with abusing that child. And if you see a man raping a woman, don't stop him. Maybe he's happy controlling her like he is, maybe he wants to feel empowered by victimizing someone else. You cannot control other people's choices and prevent them from making certain choices. And yes, rape and abuse are CHOICES. Look up the word "choice" in the dictionary, since you love that term so much.
We don't think we're better than anyone else. Once again another dumb ASSumption because you feel embarrassed you're pro-choice.

reply from: sander

Scardy cat Kay.
She's no help to her proabort partners in crime.
If she can't at least tell us what an aborted baby looks like then she's a liar like the rest...

reply from: lukesmom

My, my, my UT, the hate and judgement just radiates from your posts. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
No one here is God and I have never seen anyone here accept that title. What happens to "the unwanted babies"? Well according to the "great" PP there are no unwanted babies because abortion took care of that. So since Roe vs Wade all born humans are actually wanted therefore you are referring to wanted babies. So to answer your question, they are continueing to live the life they were given. Could they be suffering abuse, and all the other nasty things that go with life? Yes, that is possible but it is just as possible they end up living a nonabused productive life. One this is certain, they haven't been pulled apart limb by limb and brutally murdered. As for money, how much is your life worth? Do you want to put a dollar sign on your life? Maybe we should go out and murder every person on welfare and medicaid and medicare and medical assistance. Hey lets not stop there, lets kill off the panhandlers and homeless. How about the terminally and chronically ill too. Who else am I forgetting? Oh yea, forgot about every person that is currently abused cause we know that death would save them from future abuse. While we are at it, there is genetic testing to determine who may suffer from drug and/or alcohol abuse. Better not forget them because it would be easier for them and us if we take care of this before a problem starts.
Now anyone who doesn't agree with the above has a chance to take these people in and pay for them so the government doesn't have to and hopefully give them a better life. Come on people! If you don't agree, you HAVE to prove how you are helping these people otherwise killing them is the only way to go! Me? Hey I thought of this killing solution so leave me out of your saviour complex...you religious freakos! Now UT, do you see how silly you sound?

reply from: Faramir

There are a couple here who have come pretty darn close to acceping that title.
They at least claim to speak for God, and have created their own dogma.

reply from: Teresa18

At least you admit a baby is killed during an abortion. That's more than some do. Pro-lifers stand outside clinics to show the truth about abortion. We want to show what is being killed in abortion is a person, not a clump of cells or a blob of tissue like the abortion industry claims. We are hoping that people will recognize the unborn as persons, thereby choosing life and fighting for the end of legalized abortion.
Who? Two people go into the clinic. One comes out. Are referring to the one that comes out? The mother? Does a difficult situation really warrant killing another person? Surely you would say a difficult situation does not warrant killing a born person, so why would it warrant killing an unborn person?
No. However, God has given us his Commandments, "Thou shall not kill."
You are puzzling me here. Do you mean the "unwanted" babies that aren't aborted? How can that be. Planned Parenthood tells us that with legalized abortion, "Every child is a wanted child."
Are you saying that you pro-aborts have the right to decide whose life will be worth living and who would be better off dead? Those who you deem better of dead should be killed? Wow!
No. Neither does parenting of biological, wanted children. Child abuse has increased since abortion has been made legal, not vice versa. There is a long list of wonderful families longing to adopt a baby. I highly doubt most of these people want a child to abuse.
First of all, please provide statistics that pro-life people do nothing regarding foster care and adoption. Second, are you saying that if we pro-lifers do not personally care for the children pro-aborts wish to abortion, they somehow do not have the right to life? If I stepped in when a mother was going to kill her born child and told her not to do it, do I then have an obligation to care for that born child? If I can't care for her born child, does she then have a right to kill him/her?

reply from: Teresa18

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? This one comes off like a homicidal maniac. His/her answer to every problem is more killing.....
Gives me the creeps.

reply from: Teresa18

Is that you, Margaret Sanger?

reply from: teddybearhamster

UT, i'm sorry you feel that pessamistic. i really am because i have been there myself. however, ripping apart a child limb from limb is never right. Kay, i do not doubt those photos are real. i have also seen the silent scream. it reduced me to tears.

reply from: sk1bianca

utilitarian, i can't believe you actually said it's ok to kill children. you call it "natural selection", but in nature, not even animals exterminate their offspring in the way humans do thru abortion. this shows you are worse than an animal. abortion is not "natural", it's an act against nature!
and one more thing, utilitarian... statistics show that 75-85% of pregnant rape victims choose life! http://www.afterabortion.org/rape.html (don't worry, i don't really believe you'll read that)
as for the photos of aborted babies, DENIAL is the only way that pro-"choice" people manage to avoid changing their minds. they are not afraid to see the truth, they are afraid they might be forced to admit they were wrong. they also try very hard to stop other people from seeing what abortion looks like. DENIAL is what keeps them going.
so although some people think that it's inappropriate to display such shocking images, i believe they are one of the best ways to show what abortion is about. after all, why is everyone so desgusted? it's legal, "safe", it's "a woman's right", isn't it?

reply from: nancyu

Kay and Utilitarian.
Is fear holding you back from joining in our minority group? I know how tempting it is to go with the flow, and follow the biggest crowd. But that crowd is going in the wrong direction. Do you want to stay there? Really?? Join this crowd, then we won't be the minority any more, and we can get this flowing in the right direction.
Pretty please, stay with us. Keep voicing your opinions, but just stay with us.

reply from: nancyu

I see that you are very focused on the issue of child abuse since your mother works in that field it makes sense. It's good that you are focused on it. Please continue to build awareness of it.
But please don't think that abortion is the solution for it. It simply isn't. Killing the child to keeping it from being abused is wrong. You wouldn't kill a born child to protect him/her from abuse would you? Then you shouldn't for one who is unborn either.

reply from: sander

Well, then tell us how an aborted baby should look.
Enlighten us poor duped believers.
*tapping fingers waiting...again*
If those pictures don't show how an aborted baby looks, WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE?
How about it, Kay? Get those crayons togeather yet? Why don't you show/tell us what an aborted baby should look like?

reply from: teddybearhamster

she probably knows those pictures are real.

reply from: sander

she probably knows those pictures are real.
Yep. She's just following the proabort party line.
She has been given the opportunity to prove us wrong, but can't.
She should AT LEAST be able to explain what an aborted baby looks like, if those pictures are wrong or faked, or whatever.
There's no denying that the aborted baby is always covered in blood, mutilated, burned, decapated, spines crushed or sucked into a jar. NONE of which makes a pretty picture.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

I posted why I think the pictures are fake many months ago and it didn't matter to you guys. Why should I do it again? It does not matter what I say. Why don't you guys think that the pictures couldn't be of something else or couldn't be edited??

reply from: teddybearhamster

two words:
silent
scream

reply from: sander

Because I use to work in a hospital back in the mid 70's. A few doctors there perfomed abortions, my job was to clean the surgical unit. I saw with my own eyes what those babies looked like.
Now, why don't you tell us what YOU think or know they look like?
If the pictures are wrong, what SHOULD AN ABORTED BABY LOOK LIKE?????
YOU SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO TELL US THAT MUCH!

reply from: teddybearhamster

Because I use to work in a hospital back in the mid 70's. A few doctors there perfomed abortions, my job was to clean the surgical unit. I saw with my own eyes what those babies looked like.
Now, why don't you tell us what YOU think or know they look like?
If the pictures are wrong, what SHOULD AN ABORTED BABY LOOK LIKE?????
YOU SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO TELL US THAT MUCH!
i can't imagine how heartbreaking it must have been to do that job. i'm making plans to go to school to be a medical assistant after i have my baby and i made up my mind already i will never work at a murder factory. i'm so sorry you had to see that and say nothing( at the time). because of that you are a strong voice for these poor children though i bet.

reply from: sander

When I took the job I had no idea abortions were performed there. It's a major general hospital and where I had my children.
I said plenty...and back then the RN's said the same. Abortion rights were new and many were still finding their way on how they would handle having to work in those operating rooms. Things are different now, abortions aren't performed there.
Back then the RN's thought ill of the women having abortions, especially the repeat offenders. But, I didn't stay there long.

reply from: teddybearhamster

When I took the job I had no idea abortions were performed there. It's a major general hospital and where I had my children.
I said plenty...and back then the RN's said the same. Abortion rights were new and many were still finding their way on how they would handle having to work in those operating rooms. Things are different now, abortions aren't performed there.
Back then the RN's thought ill of the women having abortions, especially the repeat offenders. But, I didn't stay there long.
good for you and the RN's standing up for those children. that's more than the 'doctors' did. i don't blame you one bit for not staying there long.

reply from: sander

It creeped me out working there after finding out what was happening. But, like I said, this was shortly after RvW was inacted and nobody thought that abortions would be taking place there! Thankfully, that didn't last long either. There are MUCH better uses for an OR and I think the staff resented having any of those rooms used for the sucking jars!

reply from: galen

i'm glad i was able to avoid such during my nursing career...

reply from: teddybearhamster

it's sick because a hospitals purpose is to save lives, not be a butcher shop.

reply from: yoda

There are too many of them, produced by too many good, honest people.
Add to that the fact that lying proaborts will not produce any of their own, and you get the picture that they ARE genuine.

reply from: yoda

Nothing but silence from kayluvesdeadbabies.........

reply from: Antibigot

Because I use to work in a hospital back in the mid 70's. A few doctors there perfomed abortions, my job was to clean the surgical unit. I saw with my own eyes what those babies looked like.
Now, why don't you tell us what YOU think or know they look like?
If the pictures are wrong, what SHOULD AN ABORTED BABY LOOK LIKE?????
YOU SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO TELL US THAT MUCH!
I was once in a forum on another site (I can't remember which one), and there were pro-choicers complaining about abortion pictures and how "fake" they are. I asked what an aborted fetus is supposed to look like and no one answered me. I asked several more times and STILL no one could tell me!
If a pro-choicers claims these pictures are fake, they should be able to prove it.

reply from: sander

They always give the silent treatment when backed into having to actually explain what an aborted baby looks like.
I still hold out hope for those who hem and haw since they really can't be convinced their fake. It's the proabort that says, "yeah...they're real, so what?" That's a dead heart if there ever was one.

reply from: sander

Nothing but silence from kayluvesdeadbabies.........
And yet the posters here answer her questions, even though hers are meant as traps.
"What would you do if your mommy had an abortion".....please.

reply from: jujujellybean

tell us or provide us, yes provide us, with a 'real picture.' i got edited at the ehealth for saying that 'babies are having their brains sucked out, and stabbed in the nape of the neck with scissors.' they can't stand the truth there. I am done. But Kay, those are the procedures no matter how much ehealth wishes they weren't, so what else would it be but bloody?

reply from: jujujellybean

maybe she has come back to the dead; either that or she is just one of her die hard followers who thinks life is bad and we should all be dead. we are ruining the planet you know and more people aren't good for it.

reply from: Banned Member

Do you get the feeling that this person just got back from the "2-minute hate" over at the Ministry of Truth? (1984) Yikes.

reply from: nancyu

Yes, I wonder how long it will take her for to come up with some pictures of her own. Maybe she and her friends can doctor up some pictures that make look abortion look pleasant, and pretty.
Really looking forward to those, kayluvschoice (to kill babies)

reply from: teddybearhamster

yes i'm still waiting to see what a real picture of an aborted 'clump of cells' looks like. i think i'll takes sanders word for it. she's the one who witnessed it in person.

reply from: sander

I can't wait to see pictures of the dead babies all wrapped up in their little blankies and hair comb (that is if their heads are still in tact) and all the blood washed off. Maybe someone would have taken the time to put their body parts back in place and then snap the photo?

reply from: 4given

I can't wait to see pictures of the dead babies all wrapped up in their little blankies and hair comb (that is if their heads are still in tact) and all the blood washed off. Maybe someone would have taken the time to put their body parts back in place and then snap the photo?
Tiller's victim's have that opportunity, should mom want to keepsake...

reply from: sander

Seriously? They will take a picture of the dead baby at tiller's hell hole/death shop?

reply from: jujujellybean

oh yah! read it for yourself; it's quite sick.
The worst part for me is they have a 'chaplain' there. what kind of christian would work for such a killer? OMG it's so gross!

reply from: sander

I didn't know chaplins from hell could get work earth side?

reply from: yoda

Yes, there is always a "Judas" among the clergy, and Tiller keeps one on salary all the time.
That reminds me of how Jesse Jackson went up to "counsel" Slick Willie after he got caught "not having sex with that woman". At the time, of course, Jesse was having an extra marital affair, but was being used to "counsel with" ole Slick.
What do you suppose they talked about in those sessions?

reply from: churchmouse

Utilitarian you said,"What is your problem? Why do you feel the need to stand outside of clinics with pictures of aborted babies? First, you have no idea what that person has been through. 2nd, you are not God. 3rd, what do you think happens to all the unwanted babies? They go on and live life to the fullest?"
I sense some bitterness and that you have been hurt by something or someone. If so I am so sorry.
I have had an abortion. I am one of those women in the late 70's that walked into Planned Parenthood, paid the money, stood in line and killed my child. No counseling.....I had no idea the heart starts beating at around 20 days, that life started at fertilization. You think they informed me? NO. And its 2008 and they still deceive and lie to women. I want woman to know more than the media and PP tell them. I want them to see the result of abortion and hear from someone that has suffered through it that its not that easy. I became suicidal, depressed. The abortion I had almost destroyed me. Of course at the time I was a Christian but in name only.

I stand at abortion mills for the unborn children that will be slaughtered within the walls.
They cant speak can they?
Do you also oppose pictures that show what happened during the Holocaust? They show the truth and so do abortion pictures. Why do you feel they should be hidden?
I know exactly what women walking in will encounter. I rememeber the room, the doctors face, the sound of the machine and the pain after. You think its been easy?
Of course I am not God, but I believe in God and I believe sharing and helping women with abortion is my calling. He would want me as a Christian to stand up for injustice. And abortion is legalized, premeditated murder. When I die and go to be with Christ, I want to be able to say that I tried to make a difference, that I stood up not only for the unborn but for His Word.
"Do you actually think adoption works every single time? OH! I know what is better than adoption! FOSTER HOMES! Yes! I love it when an unwanted baby suffers through abusive parents and is forced into an foster home or are forced into a foster home right at the start because the parents are not suitable to take care of a baby. Thats the best because you know what happens most of the time to unwanted babies?"
Does everything in life always work the first time? I'll tell you this, death to the newborn works every single time because that is the goal of every abortion doctor. People suffer that is life. No one lives a perfect life and everyone suffers. To say a child should be murdered because their might be problems down the road is ridiculous. There is no such thing as an unwanted baby. There are people all over the world that want babies.
"The best part of it, who pays for the unwanted babies? Oh... Thats right, THE GOVERNMENT! Do you want to take care of the babies? I see you standing outside of the clinics but I don't see you adopting every chance you get or trying to help the unwanted babies."
What do you think Planned Parenthood does to help women that want to have their babies? NOTHING.
So what you are saying is that we should kill on demand for any reason or any gestational age. If the kid is imperfect abort him. If he is the wrong sex abort him. If he will be born to a poor mother abort him. If its an inconveniece to the woman, the timing is wrong.....lets abort. Do you also feel this way about people who happen to be handicapped, or retarded or poor? Do you feel like Hitler did that they should be gotten rid of?
Cause honey, your views are very very similar.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, his post did sound a bit like Mein Kampf.

reply from: jujujellybean

that is the top of disgusting. I just can't believe someone who calls himself a man of God could live with himself.

reply from: jujujellybean

*bump* for the 7 post poster Utilitarian! Do you think he will come back? Or is he what I call the 'hit and run' pro choicers? Hmmm...

reply from: jujujellybean

I didn't know chaplins from hell could get work earth side?
I forgot to post the link: here, look at it, it's sick:
http://www.dr-tiller.com/rites.htm

reply from: yoda

that is the top of disgusting. I just can't believe someone who calls himself a man of God could live with himself.
Then you have a lot to learn. The nazis proved that people could be manipulated into doing the most horrible of things with pressure and/or a little temptation. And I'm afraid some of us require only a small amount of "pressure and/or temptation".
Tiller's "minister", for example, sold out for just a few blood soaked dollars.

reply from: yoda

My vote is for "hit and run" proabort.

reply from: sander

I didn't know chaplins from hell could get work earth side?
I forgot to post the link: here, look at it, it's sick:
http://www.dr-tiller.com/rites.htm
That is hell on parade.
Murder your child then get the footprints so one can remember the murder.
Sick isn't the word.
So, guess chaplins from hell do get work earth side.
It's just too much.

reply from: 4given

What Tiller Offers... after he has killed the child:
viewing, holding, photographs, baptism, footprints and handprints, certificate of pre-mature miscarriage, cremation,urn for ashes, arrangement for burial, autopsy/ amniocentesis, medical x-rays and photos for healthcare prof...

reply from: sander

How horrible...anything to make a dime off a dead baby that he killed!
He's evil run amuck and that takes some doing.
He has the nerve to call an abortion a "pre-mature miscarriage"! What in the heck does that mean anyway?
Oh, hell awaits this monster.

reply from: 4given

There are Christians that take part in the adopt-an-abortionist drive. They commit to praying for them to be convicted. That is all well and good. God is still working on me.. I do have to say that it would suit me fine if his hands were maimed enough so that they were rendered useless.. and he was convicted and repentant..

reply from: teddybearhamster

How horrible...anything to make a dime off a dead baby that he killed!
He's evil run amuck and that takes some doing.
He has the nerve to call an abortion a "pre-mature miscarriage"! What in the heck does that mean anyway?
Oh, hell awaits this monster.
that's all he wants to do by offering those services afterward. it's all about the green(probably funding a summer home in the hamptons).

reply from: lukesmom

A pre-mature miscarriage is just a "pretty" pc way of discribing a termination for medical reasons. This is the fanciest term I've seen, makes the parents feel better and sugar coats the fact they are having a late term abortion. More lies for parents grieving the perfect child. All the other stuff mentioned is standard procedure for dealing with a dead, wanted child so the parents can remember and better grieve. Makes ya sick doesn't it?

reply from: 4given

Right TBH- It is about greed.. By offering these services, they are sure to get the many referrals that fund their blood-stained greedy hands and wants.. Why are people so dead to the heinous reality of abortion?! How can they be?

reply from: 4given

It does make me sick. I think the certificate of miscarriage is another way a woman can lie about her abortion- obviously. The sympathy cards come.. the flowers and gifts, and not too many people are comfortable asking a grieving parent the details that led to the "miscarriage".. Disgusting! Sad!
Praying there will not be a miscarriage of justice in this case....

reply from: sander

It does make me sick. I think the certificate of miscarriage is another way a woman can lie about her abortion- obviously. The sympathy cards come.. the flowers and gifts, and not too many people are comfortable asking a grieving parent the details that led to the "miscarriage".. Disgusting! Sad!
Praying there will not be a miscarriage of justice in this case....
It makes me beyond sick. But, good one, 4Given ^
My nephew and his wife miscarried yesterday, they are heart broken. Tiller makes a mockery of the truly grieving.

reply from: lukesmom

I am so sorry Sander. The emotional pain of miscarriage is silent and so misunderstood except by others who have gone through it. Please let them know there are many of us thinking and praying for them in their grief.

reply from: teddybearhamster

sander, i'm so sorry for your family.

reply from: sander

A pre-mature miscarriage is just a "pretty" pc way of discribing a termination for medical reasons. This is the fanciest term I've seen, makes the parents feel better and sugar coats the fact they are having a late term abortion. More lies for parents grieving the perfect child. All the other stuff mentioned is standard procedure for dealing with a dead, wanted child so the parents can remember and better grieve. Makes ya sick doesn't it?
Pre-mature and miscarriage...do they belong in the same sentence?

reply from: sander

Thank you, Lukesmom and Teddybear, how kind of you both to understand and send your well wishes.
I'll let them know others truly care and are praying.
This was their first baby, they were married in Feb.. The doctor told her to wait a few months and try again, no reason to think they can't be successful in the future. But, for now they are heart sick.

reply from: teddybearhamster

i know this isn't the most humane thing to say but i wouldn't be one bit sorry if he got some fancy house and it burned down along with him or some overpriced car and the brakes went out. i'd call it karma. i know that doesn't sound very pro life but i can't help it. i was looking at a website about him and it said he stopped doing abortions at one place because to get there women would have to pass a maternity ward and he lost customers.

reply from: lukesmom

Prochoicers have invented a whole language so they don't have to discribe the reality of abortion.

reply from: sander

i know this isn't the most humane thing to say but i wouldn't be one bit sorry if he got some fancy house and it burned down along with him or some overpriced car and the brakes went out. i'd call it karma. i know that doesn't sound very pro life but i can't help it. i was looking at a website about him and it said he stopped doing abortions at one place because to get there women would have to pass a maternity ward and he lost customers.
It's only natural to have those kind of thoughts towards a true butcher.
Who with a heart can understand the mind of someone like tiller the killer?
His love of money and death will catch up to him, if not in the here and now, it will be when he faces the Creator of all life.
And he'll wish he could trade his wealth then.

reply from: teddybearhamster

he won't be able to buy his way out of hell.

reply from: sander

So, how can people be so stupid as to believe there's such a thing as a pre-mature miscarriage????
One would have to want to believe such a thing.

reply from: sander

Nope. All his money won't do him a bit of good.
He's the poster boy for; "the LOVE of money is the root of ALL EVIL".

reply from: 4given

My heart goes out to them. I will also pray. It is devastating. I can relate. I am sorry for that. It makes the likes of Tiller, his staff and clients all the more vile. May God bless her womb and their lives abundantly. I trust He will.

reply from: Faramir

I just looked at his website and it's really creepy.
Does anyone know how many abortions he performs, how much he charges, what percentage are of perfectly healthy babies, and what is the latest stage he will abort?

reply from: sander

My heart goes out to them. I will also pray. It is devastating. I can relate. I am sorry for that. It makes the likes of Tiller, his staff and clients all the more vile. May God bless her womb and their lives abundantly. I trust He will.
Thank you, 4Given. I know your prayers reach God's ears and God answers prayer!
Yes, it does make tiller and his killing staff all the more vile and inhumane.

reply from: 4given

I understand completely. I have thought the same way about him and all those that threaten the unborn.. Will justice reign? I found when praying for a conversion in his heart that I was distracted by thoughts of what he truly deserved- and I had to cut the prayer short. These men and women that profit over the brutality and death of innocent lives deserve affliction and trial. It would in no way compare to the suffering they have themselves inflicted- not only upon the innocent unborn, but the lives of the women and their families that are harmed by abortion. They will stand before God solely accountable.. but I can not help but to desire justice and due hardship here on earth..

reply from: lukesmom

What justice can't be found in this world will be given in the next...

reply from: sander

I understand completely. I have thought the same way about him and all those that threaten the unborn.. Will justice reign? I found when praying for a conversion in his heart that I was distracted by thoughts of what he truly deserved- and I had to cut the prayer short. These men and women that profit over the brutality and death of innocent lives deserve affliction and trial. It would in no way compare to the suffering they have themselves inflicted- not only upon the innocent unborn, but the lives of the women and their families that are harmed by abortion. They will stand before God solely accountable.. but I can not help but to desire justice and due hardship here on earth..
I don't think anyone of good conscience wept when hitler shot himself in the head!
Most wondered why so long in the making!
We're human and God gave us these emotions, He understands.
And personally, I feel one must be led by God to pray for the likes of this evil man. I've never felt any such compunction. I know where there is life there is hope. But, there's also those who have been given over to a reprobate mind, so I leave these things to God.

reply from: 4given

I believe that to be so Sue. The thing that bothers me is that he actually attends a church- a Christian church. How does the pew not toss him onto the ground? My prayer is that he will be reached.. I can not fathom how he can live with himself.. I suspect if he truly desired more than a Christian clientele (the added bonus)- his heart would have been reached long ago.

reply from: Faramir

Bernard Nathanson killed 75,000.
Yet he turned around and even became a Christian.
So we could hope for the same for Tiller.
Does anyone know what turned Nathanson around? Maybe it was because people were praying for him.

reply from: Teresa18

I'm sorry to hear that. Prayers for your nephew and his wife.
Tiller makes me sick. How can a woman deliberately have her child killed and then proceed to have a funeral like she miscarried and will miss the child?

reply from: sander

I'm sorry to hear that. Prayers for your nephew and his wife.
Tiller makes me sick. How can a woman deliberately have her child killed and then proceed to have a funeral like she miscarried and will miss the child?
Thank you, Teresa.
The prayers are certainly welcomed and appreciated.
I don't understand that kind of mind either. I don't believe for a second that going thru all the rituals after killing her own child soothes a conscience.
It just gives the mother some sense of right of grief and she has none, it's just another mockery of the truly grief stricken.

reply from: lukesmom

Termination for medical reasons (except when abused) involves a wanted child. The child is aborted because the parents don't want an imperfect child or may fear the child is or would be in pain or the child has a terminal diagnosis. Many parents are not told they have the option to continue the pregnancy. Drs actually tell parents termination is the only option. I have talked to many women who were suprised they could chose to ctt. Many things have changed in the past few years mainly due to parents who have ctt becoming very verbal and trying to educate physicians and other parents via the internet. There are now 3 books out about how to ctt with a poor prenatal diagnoses and soon there will be a 4th. I have shared Luke's story in 2 of them. There are web sites and forums where moms can talk and support each other and that is invaluable. When I was pregnant with Luke, I had no other woman who had been through this to talk too. Now there are sites that link new parents to other parents who dealt with the same diagnosis. I can't even tell you how HUGE this is. A year ago a prenatal hospice was started for parents carring babies with poor diagnosises. Now there is the start of support where 5 years ago there was nothing. Anyway, off my soap box. The parents who terminated their child with a poor prenatal diagnosis are grieving and want all the momentos they can get, thus the foot prints, funeral, clergy, etc.

reply from: 4given

Sue- Is ctt "carry to term"?

reply from: 4given

Thank you. I am familiar with a portion of the terminology... Most are not. Thank you for the clarification!

reply from: carolemarie

Okay, lets say your right. (your not, but this is hypothetical) Have you seen picutres of fetal development? Let's consider one at 7 weeks. Do you see fingers, yes. Do you see toes, extremities, like legs and arms. Can you recognize a head? Do you agree that this fetus is alive?
Can you imagine what a suction machine would do to the fetus? It would reduce the fetus to little bits and pieces that can be sucked down the tube. Then you would see in the pile of ick, little feet and hands. It would be all bloody because that is what happens when you reduce a body to a chopped up mess.
Abortion actually kills the fetus in a very non-humane way. If someone did it to a puppy, they would be in serious trouble!

reply from: faithman

Okay, lets say your right. (your not, but this is hypothetical) Have you seen picutres of fetal development? Let's consider one at 7 weeks. Do you see fingers, yes. Do you see toes, extremities, like legs and arms. Can you recognize a head? Do you agree that this fetus is alive?
Can you imagine what a suction machine would do to the fetus? It would reduce the fetus to little bits and pieces that can be sucked down the tube. Then you would see in the pile of ick, little feet and hands. It would be all bloody because that is what happens when you reduce a body to a chopped up mess.
Abortion actually kills the fetus in a very non-humane way. If someone did it to a puppy, they would be in serious trouble!
Speaking from personal experiance?

reply from: nancyu

I'm so sorry, my condolences to you, and to your nephew and wife.

reply from: nancyu

Oh sorry! Yes it is.
Thanks Sue, I was just about to ask that.
(it does pay to read before posting)
I am no happier with the term "termination for medical reasons" than "premature miscarriage"
To be truthful "termination" should be changed to "killing the child."
"Killing your child for medical reasons??" It doesn't seem quite as socially acceptable when stated truthfully, does it. When person hood is established, women are going to need to be a bit more specific about what those "medical reasons" are.

reply from: sander

I'm so sorry, my condolences to you, and to your nephew and wife.
Thank you, Nancy.

reply from: yoda

Well, I guess it's that I'm short sighted and prolife!
And I hope I always stay that way!!

reply from: lukesmom

Oh sorry! Yes it is.
Thanks Sue, I was just about to ask that.
(it does pay to read before posting)
I am no happier with the term "termination for medical reasons" than "premature miscarriage"
To be truthful "termination" should be changed to "killing the child."
"Killing your child for medical reasons??" It doesn't seem quite as socially acceptable when stated truthfully, does it. When person hood is established, women are going to need to be a bit more specific about what those "medical reasons" are.
The politial correct terminology used with grieving parents is deceiving. When I was told "termination" it took me a while to understand what they were talking about. They use that terminology to "soften" the blow I guess, like anything could. Doesn't termination or "premature miscarriage" sound much softer than abortion or kill your child by mutalation or forcing a birth before viability? Whole new language to "protect" parents AND decieves parents.

reply from: carolemarie

Okay, lets say your right. (your not, but this is hypothetical) Have you seen picutres of fetal development? Let's consider one at 7 weeks. Do you see fingers, yes. Do you see toes, extremities, like legs and arms. Can you recognize a head? Do you agree that this fetus is alive?
Can you imagine what a suction machine would do to the fetus? It would reduce the fetus to little bits and pieces that can be sucked down the tube. Then you would see in the pile of ick, little feet and hands. It would be all bloody because that is what happens when you reduce a body to a chopped up mess.
Abortion actually kills the fetus in a very non-humane way. If someone did it to a puppy, they would be in serious trouble!
Speaking from personal experiance?
Yes, I had two suction abortions. Pretty sure that is what happens.

reply from: churchmouse

Sander I am so so sorry for your loss. I'll pray for your family. No words, however thoughtful can take away hurt and pain, not when you lose something so precious. God Bless.
The heart starts beating around 20 days long before the majority of abortions are performed. So you tell me what it's called if someone INTENTIONALLY stops a beating heart that DOES NOT give consent. This is murder.
You are right the results of an abortion would be unbearable to look at.
PETA goes nuts if animals are experimented on......HOLLYWOOD stands up for the animal but kicks the fetus to the curb. Its ok if society slaughters an unborn fetus......but goes nuts when things like what happen to Michael Vick takes place.
Are you saying all pictures regarding the results of an abortion are false? I am sure that in the past there have been false pictures out there. But the majority are true and show exactly what goes on. Why are you opposed to pictures? Are you also opposed to pictures of the Holocaust that shows the results of those inhumane act?
You are obviously by your name a pro-choice/abortion advocate. I ask you......is there something wrong with abortion? And if there is, why would anyone, yourself included condone what happens to unborn children? You spin it anyway you wish Kay,.... BUT to be pro-choice about someone's right to kill is to be anti-choice about someones right to live.
Nancy you are right on as usual. Its funny the terms that the pro-aborts use to soften the act. The Nazi's did this as well. "Termination" is used but its really killing the child. They won't use this....makes them seem evil. LOL And they know it. They need words that distance themselves between the child and the murder.
I just read an interesting article, "Lessons From The Nazi Regarding Human Life."
I quote from the article by James Kennedy, "While there are distinct and major differences between the Nazi Holocaust and what's happening in America today, some emerging trends disturb. It's the same kind of mentality that we don't respect human life, and we have to dehumanize it and then we find the technology to get rid of it. The Nazi dehumanize their victims extensively. They called them subhuman, non-human, parasites, animals, objects, non persons. The same terminology dominates the lexicon of todays, abortion semanticists."................." Its funny that the Nazis used the word "selection", to cover up their killing.......pro-choice propagandists use the term "choice", to cover up theirs."
They call the killing a "procedure." LOL
I think this is so true.
If it is ever established abortion will be outlawed. If our government ever gave personhood to the fetus......they would have to acknowledge that they condone killing. PP and pro-abortion groups want to make sure this never happens. They try to stop laws that have anything to do with establishing personhood. Why do you think they are against making clinics show ultrasounds.

reply from: sander

Thank you for your prayers, Churchmouse. It's greatly appreciated.
Is the James Kennedy you quoted the pastor of Coral Ridge? If so, I loved that man and was so saddened to hear of his passing. He spoke with moral clairy and was a clear voice for the unborn and all things Godly. His voice is missed.
Somewhere along the line the prolife movement has began to lose the ability to speak with moral clairty. This greatly saddens me as this plays into the hands of the proabotion movement.
They have successfuly captured the language that would otherwise describe, in truth, the horrors of abortion.
What a glarring difference. There really is NO need to be cruel to either, but you're right, the baby has been kicked to the curb and people have allowed animals to ursurp the human being.
Isaiah has something to say about that.

reply from: english

Did you used to be pro-abortion?

reply from: english

To the pro-abortionist who started the topic: have you ever been hit, or touched inappropriately? If so, walk your talk and go and kill yourself.
And here's something for you to consider - why do you think women suffer after they've had their babies butchered? Because it goes against the grain - it's unnatural. You even said something like "have you any idea what these women have been through?". And who do you think pays for the damage caused to these women, when they suffer from mental illnesses and develop addictions to mask their guilt? It certainly isn't the pro-abortion militants.

reply from: jujujellybean

english, welcome to the forum.

reply from: churchmouse

Yes. You are exacty right, he was a super man of God and he did speak with moral clarity which IMO is rare among pastors today. I think so many are afraid of making people mad and losing tithes. Kennedy said what others were afraid to say. He will be missed that is for sure.
He has written so many good books, the one I quoted from is called, Lord of All. The one I am reading now is called, How Would Jesus Vote.
Its funny but my mother just loved him. She died two years before he did and they died on the same day.
Welcome English, I am fairly new too. Yes I was pro-abortion because I had one and thought nothing of it, until years later. It about destroyed my marriage, my life. I am now 53 but I had it at 25 years old. I walked into the clinic payed the fee, signed the papers, (no counseling) sat with probably 25 other women and waited my turn.
I had no idea about fetal development.
My niece was born at 22 weeks (years later) and when they said she wouldn't make it they called the family in to see her. I saw her little body (1 pound) and could see the blood running through her veins. I knew at that moment what I had done. I cant remember because I think as a coping skill I learned to block it out...but I had a panic attack right there and then. My abortion about destroyed me and everything I had. I was a Christian in name only then so I obviously was not walking in Gods light and I suffered because of it. I gave my life to Christ on 9-11 and since have been walking a different walk.
She is now 16 years old and was just inducted into the National Honor Society at her school. She is brilliant and wants to be a doctor to help preemies like she was.
The hospital she was born at still contacts her to find out how she is doing.
The only health issues she had was with her vision. She wears contacts now. She is a miracle. But now babies born at her gestational age survive more frequently.

reply from: sander

Churchmouse said
Do you know if his teachings and leadership at his church are being followed still? I fear his legacy may fall by the wayside if someone doesn't have his same strong moral convictions.
I still have my sticker in the window of my car his ministry gave away that says, "UNDER GOD and underneath that, one nation".
He understood American history and refused to deny our Christian foundation, which so many now do.
I'll have to look for the later book, is it good?
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. That is quite a coincidence that they both died on the same day.
I remember the day I heard he had passed, my heart sunk for the loss of such a voice of reason and Christian moral clairity.

reply from: churchmouse

I am sure his legacy will continue. He died five days before I was suppose to go to a Right To Life convention. Janet Folger, who is just unreal and such a Godly spokeswoman for the unborn was the guest speaker. I have read all her books, and I cant say enough about her work. I am sure you know who she is. If not......go and buy her stuff, especially The Criminalization of Christianity. She never gives up. She is political and is not afraid to give it to the pro-aborts.
Her website.
http://www.f2a.org/

Anyway......sigh.....I knew Kennedy had died and that she was very close to him. She worked for his organization and causes for years down at Coral Ridge, so I thought no way would she still come. She did and it was fabulous. the funeral was a week later. But she talked about his work and how the Christian Community as a whole would be hurt. He did stand up and it did it with the sole purpose of glorifying God. He stood on scripture. I loved Him although I am NOT A CALVANIST and I think he was. ha ha
Thats a whole other topic, don't get me started on that one. ha ha
Moms loss was terrible and there has not been one night I havent shed a tear over her passing. She was not only my mother but my best friend and prayer partner.

reply from: sander

Thank you for the information on Coral Ridge and Kennedy's ministry.
I'll check the website, sounds wonderful.
Yes, Kennedy did indeed stand on Scripture, his was on solid ground.
Again, I'm so sorry to hear of your great loss, but now, heaven's gain.

reply from: english

thanks. hello *waves*

reply from: nancyu

If it is ever established abortion will be outlawed. If our government ever gave personhood to the fetus......they would have to acknowledge that they condone killing. PP and pro-abortion groups want to make sure this never happens. They try to stop laws that have anything to do with establishing personhood. Why do you think they are against making clinics show ultrasounds.
If it is ever established? It is well established. An unborn child is a person. As surely as you and I are persons. An unborn child is a person. How can there be any doubt? Abortion is illegal, already. Because abortion kills a person. An unborn child IS A PERSON. I didn't say an unborn child *will be* a person when the words are written into the Constitution. This will only serve to clarify the point. An unborn child is a person, already. It is illegal and immoral to kill them. It is murder.

reply from: churchmouse

Sorta kinda. We know that the unborn is a person. Anyone who is pro-life, knows without a doubt that the unborn is a human being and a person. We give the unborn the same rights as anyone that has been born. Our government does not however.
As far as I know abortion is legal in all 50 states.
Yes an unborn is a person and it is murder and immoral to kill them. However our government does not believe this and our laws unfortunately do not reflect this, or abortion would be illegal.
The government knows that if unborns are assigned legal rights and duties as persons they must be citizens and should then be protected by their government.
They know if they do this by enacting laws that protect them, they will be looked at as a country that condones murdering their citizens for any reason.
Our laws are wishy washy over this. There are laws on the books that state that the unborn are human and recognized as citizens. Yet in the cases of abortion, they do not have the right to life.

reply from: nancyu

(Actually that was me nancyu who said this)
Sorta kinda?????? It is sorta kinda legal to commit murder.
ONLY if YOU believe it is. Murdering persons (whether citizens or not) is illegal. An unborn child is a person. This is not merely a matter of opinion. It is a fact. An unborn child is a living human being -- a person. It IS illegal to murder them!!!!!
Please don't' tell me that you are another religious pro lifer who doesn't even believe your own beliefs. If you believe that an unborn child is a person than YOU must believe that it is illegal to kill them!!!
It has NOTHING to do with being a "CITIZEN" It has only to do with being a "PERSON" You cannot legally murder non citizens either.
YOU, churchmouse must NOT be wishy washy over this!! We can make people understand this, without any law even being touched. But you must believe you own beliefs, otherwise, how are you going to convince anyone else, that anything you say is true? Laws protecting persons must protect ALL persons. We only need people to realize that unborn children ARE persons. It shouldn't be too hard-----because they are.

reply from: churchmouse

Geeze, take a deep breath.
I am a Christian and I am not religious, so let me correct you on that one. I have a relationship with Christ, I am NOT RELIGIOUS. I believe Christianity is all about the relationship we have with Christ.
Let me correct you on another thing. Its not about my beliefs that are important, its all about God and what He says is right. I just try to live according to scripture. I am imperfect, a sinner only saved by the Grace of God, certainly nothing that I ever did.
We have laws in this country. And those laws we as citizens must follow or face the consequence of our actions. Abortion is legal in America. Like it or not, the Supreme Court voted in 1973, that woman could kill their unborns, on demand.
I believe abortion is first degree pre-meditated murder, but our laws do not reflect that.
If you think it's murder, then are you doing something about it? How many abortionists have you killed? How many woman outside clinics have you killed?
I believe the unborn child is a person from fertilization. I believe they should get all rights that we enjoy. But I do not believe that I can go out and kill someone and go agaisnt our laws.
If every pro-lifer did that......we would all be in jail and no one would be on the outside to fight the fight.
Our country does not give rights to the unborn or abortion would be illegal. Our country allows women to kill like it or not.
I agree, but our laws do not agree. We need to educate woman so that they know that what they are aborting is a life and deserves the same protection as anyother citizen in the country.
I am not wishy washy at all. But I am realistic and know what the Pro-life has to do. We have to educate woman, so that they know what they are killing is a person. We cant assume that the government is going to embrace our take on all of this. We should try to change the laws.

reply from: sander

Churchmouse said
I'm wondering how many more years we need to educate women? It's been 35 years and 50 million dead babies later and women still don't know?
I agree we should try and change the laws, I think at this point in time, it's the baby's best chance at life.
I don't know what else can be done on the education level, especially since sex ed classes refuse to teach what abortion is about.
In this information age, I have to believe that most women who say they are not aware are either lying or don't care to know. I realize there are exceptions, but I believe that is rare.

reply from: sander

Source?
Hmmm, are you saying that sex ed classes give the proper information on abortion? Information that is not slanted or glossed over or barely touched on?
Do all sex ed classes even mentioned it?
If I'm wrong, then I'm really convinced that education is not the answer to stop abortion.

reply from: sander

Source?
Hmmm, are you saying that sex ed classes give the proper information on abortion? Information that is not slanted or glossed over or barely touched on?
Do all sex ed classes even mentioned it?
If I'm wrong, then I'm really convinced that education is not the answer to stop abortion.
I just asked for the source of the claim....In my opinion, every sex ed curriculum should include complete and factually correct information on abortion, as well as all other academic aspects of reproduction and related issues, and it should all be delivered in an objective manner. (And before anyone jumps me, yes, that includes the benefits of abstinence.)
So, there is no acutal "source" other than what is known that abortion isn't addressed.
Since you're the self proclaimed (no offense meant) expert here on sex ed., I thought you knew something I didn't.
Well, at least the little hope I had in educating people on what abortion is has been restored. Since they are not even touching abortion in sex ed maybe some can still be reached.
They say pictures are worth a thousand words, then they should show an abortion, they don't hesitate in showing mangled car wrecks to kids in drivers ed..
I saw a teacher on TV take her class to a roof top with an old car then had the car pushed over the edge. She showed the kids what an impact looks and sounds like.
Visuals can work wonders.

reply from: nancyu

Okay, you're just stupid then. Everyone knows that an unborn child is a person. Anyone who says they don't believe this is lying to you.
No laws need to be changed. It is illegal to murder persons. Unborn children are persons. The only thing that needs to happen is enforcement of these laws.

reply from: jujujellybean

"If you continue to say it is legal, you are lying. And I'm sick of repeating this, but if your skulls weren't so thick, I wouldn't have to would I?"
Nancy, the thing is, IT IS LEGAL. The government does not consider the baby a person, no matter what we think, and they have made a law that says a woman can kill her unborn child no matter what it is. So it IS legal; isn't it sad?

reply from: churchmouse

I am not stupid. And I dont appreciate your tone.
If that is your style we will not get along I'll tell you that. If it's one thing I can't stand it's people who resort to profanity and namecalling to make a point. Most the time its because they are losing.
I am a Christian and a human being that is PRO-LIFE. And because I believe that abortion happens to be legal in the country does not make me less of a pro-life warrior.

I am curious if you work with a group that does pro-life things. Because when you said that everyone knows the unborn is a person, you are dead wrong. Many people think its nothing more than a glob of tissue. Many people think its not a person for months. We know differently. That is the goal of most Right To Life organizations, to educate about fetal development, to show people that the unborn are people and that life starts at fertilization.
Our government does not give personhood to the unborn. That is why abortion is legal.
How you can say that the abortion law that has been on the books since 1973 is not what it is, is incredible.
Lets concentrate on the thing that is important, the unborn child. I am passionate about this and work hard to try to make a difference.
Because I had an abortion, I understand what woman who regret theirs are going through.
Its horrible, but there is hope because we have a loving and awesome God.

reply from: nancyu

You're operating on the erroneous assumption that I have no right to object to crimes against humanity unless I am willing to foot the bill, but in any case, the answer is "yes." I am perfectly willing to do my part in paying the costs of saving lives, born or unborn. I can always put another cup of water in the soup if that's all it takes to save the life of a fellow human being.
As irritating as I find you sometimes, CP, you do have your good points. Good answer.

reply from: churchmouse

What an answer. If everyone did their part there would be no hunger there would be no need for abortion. Why should the pro-life side foot the bill for the entire world? You guys aren't kind and compassionate?
And nancy is right Concerned that was a great answer.

reply from: Smurfy

The majority of what humans do is 'unnatural'.
Dying our hair, injecting drugs, driving cars, creating electricity out of radioactive substances, nuclear warheads, wearing clothes, brushing our teeth, communicating via microwaves, etc, etc.

reply from: nancyu

I understand you juju. Those who wish to can believe that it is "legal" Do you believe it is legal?

reply from: nancyu

Text of President Bush's Remarks on Abortion to March for Life Participants
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by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
January 22, 2008
Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- The following is a transcript of the remarks President Bush gave to pro-life advocates attending the March for Life in Washington:
9:01 A.M. EST
THE PRESIDENT: Nellie, good to be with you -- we're fellow West Texans who care deeply about the value of human life. Other members of the board of directors for the March for Life, leaders of the pro-life community, and all those who are here with us for the march, it's good to have you here and welcome to the White House. (Applause.)
As I look out at you, I'll see some folks who have been traveling all night to get here -- (laughter) -- you're slightly bleary-eyed. (Laughter.) I'll see others who are getting ready for a day out in the cold. But mostly I see faces that shine with a love for life. (Applause.)
I see people with a deep conviction that even the most vulnerable member of the human family is a child of God. You're here because you know that all life deserves to be protected. And as you begin your march, I'm proud to be standing with you. (Applause.)
Thirty-five years ago today the United States Supreme Court declared and decided that under the law an unborn child is not considered a person. But we know many things about the unborn. Biology confirms that from the start each unborn child is a separate individual with his or her own genetic code. Babies can now survive outside the mother's womb at younger and younger ages. And the fingers and toes and beating hearts that we can see on an unborn child's ultrasound come with something that we cannot see: a soul. (Applause.)
Today we're heartened -- we're heartened by the news that the number of abortions is declining. But the most recent data reports that more than one in five pregnancies end in an abortion. America is better than this, so we will continue to work for a culture of life where a woman with an unplanned pregnancy knows there are caring people who will support her; where a pregnant teen can carry her child and complete her education; where the dignity of both the mother and child is honored and cherished.
We aspire to build a society where each one of us is welcomed in life and protected in law. We haven't arrived, but we are making progress. Here in Washington we passed good laws that promote adoption and extend legal protection to children who are born despite abortion attempts. We came together to ban the cruel practice of partial birth abortion. (Applause.) And in the past year we have prevented that landmark law from being rolled back.
We've seen the dramatic breakthroughs in stem cell research that it is possible to advance medical science while respecting the sanctity of life. (Applause.) Building a culture of life requires more than law; it requires changing hearts. And as we reach out to others and find common ground, we can see the glimmerings of a new America on a far shore. This America is rooted in our belief that in a civilized society, the strong protect the weak. This America is nurtured by people like you, who speak up for the weak and the innocent. This America is the destiny of a people whose founding document speaks of the right to life that is a gift of our Creator, not a grant of the state. (Applause.)
My friends, the time is short and your march is soon. (Laughter.) As you give voice to the voiceless I ask you to take comfort from this: The hearts of the American people are good. (Applause.) Their minds are open to persuasion. And our history shows that a cause rooted in human dignity and appealing to the best instincts of the American people cannot fail. So take heart. (Applause.)
Take heart, be strong, and go forth. May God bless you. (Applause.)
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