Home - List All Discussions

I've seen the light

you guys are right abortion is murder

by: LolitaOlivia

After many years devoted to the prochoice movement I've finally realized how wrong I've been. What lives in the womb is a child and there is no excuse for killing it. Today when I saw my unborn child on the ultrasound my whole life and opinion changed. I realized I am pregnant with a person, who's older sibling I murdered. I've realized that abortion is simply a way to murder your child legally, and that the legality of it is why for so long I've convinced myself it's okay, and why I myself was willing to get one.
I've realized that I've killed my baby, and I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. The only reason I ever debated with any of you was it was a way to tell myself what I did was okay and to put off feeling guilty a little longer. I am sorry for any trouble I've caused any of you, and I want to thank you for helping me see the light. I'm going to seriously rethink my life and the choices I've made.
God Bless!
Lolita Olivia
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
Seriously, just kidding! I actually did get my ultrasound today, but it sure as hell didn't change my mind about anything (I don't know why you 'lifers are always saying that it'll make you see the unborn as people). I'm at the point where if I wanted an abortion I'd have gotten it by now (most abortions are performed very early on) and the doctor still couldn't tell for sure if it's a boy or a girl. He thinks girl, but he says I should start shopping for pink yet. It took my sister-in-law ten minutes to even see it, and that was with me and the doctor trying to point it out to her!
If any of you fell for that, you're officially stupid. But those of you who didn't for a second, now you can see why I doubt the whole teddybear thing. I mean, look at her (or his) posts! The style reminds me a lot of faithman. For realz, though, do you guys think if you show enough nasty pictures and scream "Abortion is murder' people are just going to change what they've thought their whole lives?
I mean, some idiots will fall for anything, but those are the same people who go vegan because of a PETA video they saw on youtube, and do you really even want those types representing your side?
-L.O.

reply from: carolemarie

Congrats on your new baby! Somehow I missed hearing you were expecting! Anyways that is exciting news.
Carolemarie

reply from: LolitaOlivia

^Thanks, I'm very excited about it.

reply from: sander

To you this is a joke, that's terribly sad. Life is a precious gift and to be celebrated.
Even in the face of your absurd and rather cruel post, I say congratulations on the life you will be bringing into the world. May you and your baby know only good health and happiness.

reply from: galen

Dumnezeule
femeie stricat?

reply from: Faramir

I wouldn't bet my life that teddybear is a real convert before our very eyes.
But such has happened, even with doctors who performed thousands of abortions.
Sander claims to "know for a fact" that the teddybear story is genuine, so you might consider asking her how she knows with such certainty.
I have a lot of doubts about it, but I accept it as at least possible.
I became fully prolife when my first son was born. It really hit me over the head to see this brand new human being who was not much different a few days before when he was totally hidden.
How could I possibly go back in time and say at certain point he was not my son?
It would be cool if you became a real prolife convert, but congratulations on your pregnancy, and I can at least appreciate you are being prolife in this particular instance.
I hope all goes well for you and your baby.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

(Thanks for kind wishes)
I wouldn't doubt that their are converts, but the teddybear thing seems so staged. She was only "pro-choice" for a while and she wasn't on very long when she switched sides. Besides, if you look at the posts the writing style and grammar looks quite a bit like faithman and her logic and whole story seemed a bit forced. In fact, I think faithman's been doing a lot of stuff under other accounts. He's already lost credibility even with other hard-core 'lifers and I think he's been making sock-puppets to get points across.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Congrats! Do you have any names picked out??

reply from: LolitaOlivia

My Romanian isn't very good. Are you saying, "God damaged this woman" or "God, this woman's damaged!" ?

reply from: galen

btw good for you the only other person here who recognised the language.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

Thanks! Dorothea, Madison or Charlotte if it is really a girl, or James, David, or Edward if it's a boy.
But every name I've ever liked it kind of circling around in my head so it may just be decided by what I think she (or possibly he) looks like when she's born.

reply from: nancyu

This is one reason why I believe TBH. You couldn't even keep up the charade for one posting. Either she is a way better liar than you, or she is telling the truth.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

^ See I don't think she's a pro-choicer faking a conversion like me, I think she's been pro-life all along and the whole account was a fake. As in, I believe she's pro-life, but I don't think she was ever pro-choice. Or a she, for that matter. I think it's faithman.

reply from: galen

she would have to be fooling CM too... and i think carole would have caught on to that.
Also she was doing some pretty serious PM stuff when she first came in... i tend to believe her just based on the pathology... i 've listened to FM for a looooonnnnnggggg time it does not ring for me that he is TBH.

reply from: Banned Member

LolitaOlivia, you are pathetic. Better for your child had you never conceived. You don't deserve to be a mother.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

That is a very disgusting thing to say to someone.

reply from: galen

augustine that's a bit much!

reply from: Banned Member

Deal with it. It's my choice.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

That is a very disgusting thing to say to someone.
Yes, it is. With that kind of talk you'd almost think he wishes I'd get an abortion...

reply from: Faramir

That is a very disgusting thing to say to someone.
Agreed.
Many people who are on the verge of aborting have much worse attitudes than Lolita, yet we want them to keep their babies too.
And how the heck can it be better for a child to have not been conceived? That's proabortion logic.

reply from: Banned Member

As my grandmother used to say, any woman that would kill her child wouldn't make a very good mother anyway. I don't need morally equivalency thrown about here. Sure, she is pregnant and at the same time would condone a thousand other womens choice today to have an abortion. Baby killers don't deserve the joys of parenthood, not while they condone the killing of other peoples children. It is a just logic that serves to show that the evil lies of the pro-abortionists continue to lead women to believe that it is okay to have an abortion. She is a mother, and somewhere someone bears the emotional scars that resulted from her pro-abortion lies.

reply from: Faramir

Let's look on the bright side and perhaps after she gives birth she'll sing a different tune about abortion.
Meanwhile, I think it's appropriate to wish for the best for her and her child.
If you go around telling pregnant women they don't deserve to be mothers, you just might convince one of them, and you might end up being be the reason for an abortion.

reply from: sheri

Lolita, when this baby is born look at her and remember that she has an older brother or sister that would have been just as beautiful.
God help you find the strength to truly seek forgiveness.

reply from: carolemarie

What a horrible thing to say.
I am sure she will be a great mother and love her new son or daughter very much. You don't have to be prolife to be a great mother.
Celebrate life with the rest of the board!

reply from: Banned Member

It's more important to be a good person than a nice person. Nice people just say what they or other people want to hear. Good people say what is true. The mere fact that she would make a joke of abortion shows her quality. The deaths of more than 4000 people each day is not a joke.

reply from: carolemarie

That is a very disgusting thing to say to someone.
Yes, it is. With that kind of talk you'd almost think he wishes I'd get an abortion...
Just ignore him...People seem to forget that real flesh and blood people are behind that screen name!
Anyways, I am excited for you and your new baby! I bet you will rock at being a mom! If you can, try to get a 4-D sonogram. They are so cool, you can see every little detail clear as glass. Heck, you can see exactly what they will look like once they are born. It is neat for the baby book...and to show the baby when he/she is older.

reply from: Banned Member

You make no distinction between pregnant mothers and pregnant abortion advocates? A mother knows that she is a mother, the mother of a child, that she is carrying. Nothing I could say could reach such a hard heart as one that does not understand the difference between life and death.

reply from: Banned Member

You would do well CarolMarie to remember the 4000 flesh and blood human beings that die each day, rather than playing the great conciliator between abortionists and their choice to kill.
Behind these computer screens are real flesh and blood people that have ended the lives of unborn human beings. Keep that in mind.

reply from: carolemarie

There is no distinction. Both are mothers.
Try and show a little of that Christian love we are suppose to have!

reply from: Faramir

You said it would have been better for her child to have not been conceived.
Can you demonstrate why nonexistence is better than existence?
Would you say that to an adult who was born of such a mother? Would you tell them to their face that it would have been better had they not been conceived?

reply from: carolemarie

WHATEVER!!
IMHO You are acting like a spiteful brat.
Offer the gal congrats on her new baby and get down off your morally superior horse! God say fit to give her this baby and He is never wrong about anything. And be happy for her and her new baby.

reply from: Banned Member

Better to have been conceived by a mother that respects life, or that at least regrets the lives that they have advocating the taking of than to be conceived by an unrenpent abortionist. Not having been concieved would be better than being conceived to an abortionist is not the same as being conceived and then and aborted. Are you being deliberately obtuse this evening? or do you play at words to make me seem inhumane?
Go ahead, continue to defend the abortionist that makes jokes about the killing of the unborn human person. Shall I laugh for everyone's benefit?
Perhaps I'll pray for the 4000 plus dead killed today. Someone has to after all.

reply from: Faramir

I'm not playing word games at all.
You said something very harsh.
You told her it would be better that her child, which she intends to keep and raise, would be better off having not been conceived.
This child, God willing, will be born and grow into an adult.
Can you look at him or her in ten years and tell him or her it would have been better to have not been conceived?

reply from: carolemarie

I was still prochoice when I had my daughters and they were both loved.
Being prochoice has nothing to do with not loving/liking children. Your post is just mean.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

My sister-in-law had a 4-D when she was pregnant with my niece, I think I'm a bit early for that. They are very cool, and it's like a little window into the womb. I want to get a baby book, I just have to remember where I keep it. My mom lost my brother's and now that he has a child we all wish we had it back.
My mom's been writing out all my name ideas in combination with middle and last names (we're not sure if the baby's going to get my name, my fiance's name, or both). Since we're planning to get married next year, it seems smart for my baby to have his father's name, but if something happened and we didn't (I'm a realist) I wouldn't want my child to have a different last name as me. Both is the way I'm leaning, but I don't want it to sound pretentious. I'd recommend everyone try something I heard about on pro-choice Gaia called the Privy Council test when you name your child. If your child was addressed as "The Right Honorable Lord/Lady (first) (middle) (last name) " would it sound like something out of a joke book? If so, you may want to rethink your name, as it's probably either very trailer trash, or just to silly.

reply from: Banned Member

It would be better if this child had had a different mother. I hope this child becomes pro-life and gives its mother nothing but headaches.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

I was still prochoice when I had my daughters and they were both loved.
Being prochoice has nothing to do with not loving/liking children. Your post is just mean.
Thank you, and Augustine should realize that if he ever said that to a woman who wasn't sure she wanted a baby (like I am) she might consider abortion. I mean, if that's what he shouts to women going into Planned Parenthood, he's probably given them more business than he's taken away.

reply from: Faramir

It would be better if this child had had a different mother. I hope this child becomes pro-life and gives its mother nothing but headaches.
The only one who ever picked his own mother was Jesus. The rest of us get what we get, and perfect mothers are rare.
If you come down too hard on a pregnant woman, you very well could drive her to feel inadequate, and that could lead to an abortion.

reply from: 4given

Perhaps with this "wanted" life, you will be able to view the child you so selfishly and callously have referred to as an "invader, parasite.."etc. as the person that it is. I spoke to a woman recently that aborted her first child. She said it wasn't until she saw the stages of development photos that she fully understood that child she killed, was no different than those she kept. She actually stated that she didn't understand her abortion was a person at all, but "cells" . I trust you will be faced with the reality of what you have done and I hope you have regret enough to seek forgiveness. You destroyed the life, given to you, that you helped to create for selfish reasons. Acknowledge that. I don't know why God blesses the unfit and unworthy with children after they kill their own.. but He does. I hope this baby means you will straighten your life out and acknowledge what an awesome gift it is to become a parent, planned or not- There is nothing more precious as the gift of life. My prayer is that you will realize this and understand how wrong you were to take that for granted. And also how blessed you are to have this opportunity, that so many lack.

reply from: Banned Member

As one who does not have children, and might well not have children, I think that you all take having children quite for granted. People deserve to be born, even those children of mothers that are told they the right to kill. Should one feel too blessed to have children, when their advocacy causes the deaths of innocent children. Feel blessed indeed if you are so moved. For years I have fought for the lives of children while having none of my own and others kill their own children they do not want. Perhaps you will excuse me if I feel entitled to some bitterness. I think it fair however if no pro-choice women ever conceives.

reply from: carolemarie

Your welcome
There is always the ignore button. I seem to have several people on it at any given time, curiously they are all prolife....
Your mom sounds excited about the baby. Is this her first grandchild? She will be buying you truck loads of baby things......

reply from: carolemarie

Jeez, you are being mean as well. Practice charity and hold your tongue if you can't say something nice....

reply from: 4given

What?! Are you serious here? I am not being "mean". It is not in my nature. I was being truthful- which should be in yours. If you have a problem specifically with my post to her or how you perceived it to be "mean", than I suggest you address that. Please do.. and I am holding my charitable tongue now..

reply from: faithman

Jeez, you are being mean as well. Practice charity and hold your tongue if you can't say something nice....
And just who are you to judge anyones words baby killer. You are a phony, and anyone with a lick of sence knows it. 4given has 20 time the spirituality you will ever have.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

No, my brother has a little girl, but she had me and my brother later in life so all her friends are at that point where they already have several which makes the urge to be a grandparent a bit stronger. Plus she's offered to watch my baby for me while I finish my last year of school, so she's expecting to be closer to my child than my niece. At first she thought I was a bit young to have a baby, but it seems like having kids young is the trend now (a lot of my friends have babies and my brother's only a year older and he has one though his wife is quite a bit older than him) compared with when she had children. And I'm waiting for the truck load of baby stuff, my sister-in-law got one and I think since this is my first (she had a child with her first husband) mine will be even bigger.

reply from: carolemarie

How about this? You called her unfit and unworthy of having a child, a murderer and selfish. You were mean.
Just say congrats without a lecture on her past or any judgment.
Try being happy a child will be loved and born.

reply from: Banned Member

More than anything I would like for this women to become pro-life, to understand the the profound value of the unborn human being. My words may seem harsh, but sometimes charity is saying the cold hard truth. If the instrument of God's mercy comes off as harsh, than better harsh here and now, than something worse later. Sometimes the most charitable things that anyone has ever told me seemed to be harsh at the moment. Only later do we realize the compasssion that it takes to be that hard on someone in those times. Love is not coddling and patronizing. Love is direct. Love is honest.

reply from: Faramir

Wow, will this ever make yodavater's day!
10 to 1 he comes down on you for this.
It will be something very sneaky and underhanded of course, but there will be an implication that you are not prolife enough.
Probably it will be something like, "Yes, it IS very curious..."

reply from: LolitaOlivia

Jeez, you are being mean as well. Practice charity and hold your tongue if you can't say something nice....
And just who are you to judge anyones words baby killer. You are a phony, and anyone with a lick of sence knows it. 4given has 20 time the spirituality you will ever have.
I really don't get the whole condemning Carolemarie thing. I mean, we have plenty of former pro-lifers on the pro-choice side and I've never seen any of them get treated like that. In fact, I'd think you'd use her as a token or something. That's what you all did with teddybear (or faithman, I'm not sure).

reply from: faithman

That is because true prolifers see what a phony you are, and you are a baby killing coward and would rather ignore the truth than face it.

reply from: carolemarie

No, my brother has a little girl, but she had me and my brother later in life so all her friends are at that point where they already have several which makes the urge to be a grandparent a bit stronger. Plus she's offered to watch my baby for me while I finish my last year of school, so she's expecting to be closer to my child than my niece. At first she thought I was a bit young to have a baby, but it seems like having kids young is the trend now (a lot of my friends have babies and my brother's only a year older and he has one though his wife is quite a bit older than him) compared with when she had children. And I'm waiting for the truck load of baby stuff, my sister-in-law got one and I think since this is my first (she had a child with her first husband) mine will be even bigger.
LOL
Sounds great. I am happy for you and wish you well. It sounds like your mom is going to be a big help with babysitting and school. It is great to have support cause being a parent is hard work!
Once again, congrats on the baby

reply from: faithman

Jeez, you are being mean as well. Practice charity and hold your tongue if you can't say something nice....
And just who are you to judge anyones words baby killer. You are a phony, and anyone with a lick of sence knows it. 4given has 20 time the spirituality you will ever have.
I really don't get the whole condemning Carolemarie thing. I mean, we have plenty of former pro-lifers on the pro-choice side and I've never seen any of them get treated like that. In fact, I'd think you'd use her as a token or something. That's what you all did with teddybear (or faithman, I'm not sure).
That is because you are only selectively reading the posts here. It has made several anti womb child statements.

reply from: Banned Member

Why not CarolMarie head on over to some nice pro-choice forum, or attend some Planned Parenthood events if they are such good chums. Nothing seems to bother them after all. Very friendly people after all. Just don't mention babies, or unborn human beings, personhood, God, religion, abstinance or anything else for that matter. Maybe you could throw them an 'abortion shower' or something. After all, you wouldn't want to appear judgemental or dare I say the word... "mean".

reply from: faithman

A viper seems nice till they bite you.

reply from: 4given

How about this? You called her unfit and unworthy of having a child, a murderer and selfish. You were mean.
Just say congrats without a lecture on her past or any judgment.
Try being happy a child will be loved and born.
That isn't mean Carole, that is being honest. I am not lecturing her or passing judgment. Do you rightfully believe I am in any way obliged to congratulate her for not killing this child? "Try being happy.." Sure, I am pleased she has decided to keep this child- she also needs to face the past and realize that her first child was also a gift. Do you disagree?

reply from: faithman

How about this? You called her unfit and unworthy of having a child, a murderer and selfish. You were mean.
Just say congrats without a lecture on her past or any judgment.
Try being happy a child will be loved and born.
That isn't mean Carole, that is being honest. I am not lecturing her or passing judgment. Do you rightfully believe I am in any way obliged to congratulate her for not killing this child? "Try being happy.." Sure, I am pleased she has decided to keep this child- she also needs to face the past and realize that her first child was also a gift. Do you disagree?
Someone who has killed three may not be the right person to ask that question.

reply from: carolemarie

Wow, will this ever make yodavater's day!
10 to 1 he come down on you for this.
It will be something very sneaky and underhanded of course, but there will be an implication that you are not prolife enough.
He should come down on those who were being mean to a pregnant women, instead of being happy for her.....

reply from: Banned Member

Let no one call God a liar, "Thou shall not kill".
God protect the unborn and lead the foolish to wisdom.

reply from: faithman

Wow, will this ever make yodavater's day!
10 to 1 he come down on you for this.
It will be something very sneaky and underhanded of course, but there will be an implication that you are not prolife enough.
He should come down on those who were being mean to a pregnant women, instead of being happy for her.....
Oh we should just be over joyed that a flipant pack of phonies constantly come on this board and undermine true pro-life work. We just need to let a baby killer come in here and be our thought police. We should just lay back and watch a she wolf in wool attack a true pro-life woman. You are one stupid idiot.

reply from: 4given

Don't be foolish.
Will justice reign? Will truth prevail? Will any take their stand for mercy? Who will choose to walk the narrow way and touch a broken world with healing? WILL JUSTICE REIGN? ( http://www.myspace.com/kathrynscottmusic )

reply from: galen

you know i believe that god does not make mistakes... people make mistakes, and while i believeit was a greivous one that made lolita have an abortion, I do not believe that god made a mistake with the child she is carrying. There fore congratulations on your child lolita.. i hope that your eyes will be opened to the wonder of him or her.

reply from: sander

What?! Are you serious here? I am not being "mean". It is not in my nature. I was being truthful- which should be in yours. If you have a problem specifically with my post to her or how you perceived it to be "mean", than I suggest you address that. Please do.. and I am holding my charitable tongue now..
I always wonder where the "thou shalt not judge" police are when CM and fartyboy. are on this site???
Perhaps judging is just left to these two?
Btw, you were NOT mean, you spoke the truth in love...that's in the bible too. Some here have their own personal white out.

reply from: Faramir

This is a kinder and humbler way to make the point, without gleefully rubbing someone's nose in their sins.

reply from: galen

multumesc eu cred ca.

reply from: galen

chibzuiete bine înainte de a
thank you i think, and think twice before you speak once.

reply from: sander

Don't be foolish.
Will justice reign? Will truth prevail? Will any take their stand for mercy? Who will choose to walk the narrow way and touch a broken world with healing? WILL JUSTICE REIGN? ( http://www.myspace.com/kathrynscottmusic )
CM picks and choose who she is mean to, yet we're to abide by her set of rules only...hmm, no wonder fartboy seems like her on line wife....birds of a feather.
Justice will reign. It's a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of a Holy God. We would all do well to remember that. While she soothed the heart of a murderer God held the baby lolita killed and listened to this woman's cruel mockery.
I don't know which one is worse after reading these posts.

reply from: Faramir

Why don't you and your cronies just start a private forum and don't allow anyone who does not agree with you? You could come back to this forum from time to time when you feel a need to smack someone around, so you could have the best of both worlds.

reply from: galen

chibzuiete bine înainte de a

reply from: Faramir

A disembodied soul is not a "baby."
And we can hope for the mother to wake up and see the error of abortion. At the moment she doesn't see it, so she is not as culpable as one who fully understands.
Be patient, and withhold your wrath for awhile.
Maybe you could kick a dog or something while you're waiting.

reply from: sander

Summed up nicely.
Holding the hand of one who murders their own child and mocks the womb child who is created in God's very image is in some serious error.

reply from: Faramir

Summed up nicely.
Holding the hand of one who murders their own child and mocks the womb child who is created in God's very image is in some serious error.
If she held her hand in support of her beliefs about abortion, it would be a serious error, but she was not doing that.

reply from: Faramir

obviamente.. tonto.
Now that I do understand, but I won't return the "favor."

reply from: nancyu

I was still prochoice when I had my daughters and they were both loved.
Being prochoice has nothing to do with not loving/liking children. Your post is just mean.
Thank you, and Augustine should realize that if he ever said that to a woman who wasn't sure she wanted a baby (like I am) she might consider abortion. I mean, if that's what he shouts to women going into Planned Parenthood, he's probably given them more business than he's taken away.
Oh give me a break. Here you go, you're going to blame Augustine now if you (or anyone) decide to abort??
Sorry, that's not gonna wash with the justice system once abortion is illegal.
At least I hope it won't. I guess it depends on the jury, so you're right. You keep brushing up on that defense then. I doubt you can find a better one.

reply from: nancyu

How do you define pro life, pro choice?
My definition of pro choice:
A baby is a person only if the mother chooses for that child to be a person. All others are not persons and deserve no life, no sympathy, no justice, no defense, no nothing.
My definition of pro life:
An unborn child is a person.
Dear reader: By my definitions are you pro life? or pro choice?

reply from: nancyu

Especially if they surround themselves with smiley faces!

reply from: cracrat

In that case, I'm pro-life. And now that Yoda's got me on ignore he'll not be able to quote the dictionary at me and tell me that I'm/you're wrong....

reply from: cracrat

As one who does not have children, and might well not have children, I think that you all take having children quite for granted. People deserve to be born, even those children of mothers that are told they the right to kill. Should one feel too blessed to have children, when their advocacy causes the deaths of innocent children. Feel blessed indeed if you are so moved. For years I have fought for the lives of children while having none of my own and others kill their own children they do not want. Perhaps you will excuse me if I feel entitled to some bitterness. I think it fair however if no pro-choice women ever conceives.
I wonder what God was up to when He decided that you shall not breed.

reply from: cracrat

Depends how easily you give up on someone. If you truly valued the unborn, you'd never stop trying.

reply from: cracrat

Your words alone are quite enough to make you seem inhumane. No games required.

reply from: cracrat

And yet you berate her with words of hate. Did not Jesus go to those who needed his help and mercy and not condemn them? Why are you doing the precise opposite?

reply from: nancyu

I'm glad you're pro life. But you are being mean and hateful to Augustine. I wonder how God will judge you for this.

reply from: cracrat

She wasn't blaming Augustine, more pointing out that his words are unlikely to help someone in doubt make the right decision.

reply from: cracrat

God and I get along just fine thanks. But your concern is touching.

reply from: nancyu

If a woman wants her child, that child is a person and entitled to all protections given to "persons" in the US Constitution. If she doesn't want her child, it is NOT a person apparently. I would like to know how that woman has become so all powerful.
Any woman who would choose to kill her own child (for any reason) is no woman at all in my opinion, and SHE should be denied "person hood" the same as her unborn child is or was.

reply from: Banned Member

You are the one always suggesting other forums to go to Faramir, but I forgot, the www.prochoicetalk.com site is down.
Choice forums are fine and dandy as long as you bow and curtsy when you are supposed to and never ever say that abortion is murder.

reply from: Banned Member

Splitting hairs again are we? That argument is not that far from a fertilized egg is not a person. Sound familiar?
If a women who has killed her own unborn children can joke about abortion and becoming pro-life while she is carrying another child, she understands and is culpable. I refuse to set reason aside in the name of false compassion. This woman is not incapable of understanding the hundreds of posts in these forums we have written. She simply does not care that an unborn child is a human being. She keeps the child now because it suits her and if it did not suit her she would not keep the child. That is the frightening arbitrary nature of the pro-choice mindset. The child either is a human being or is not a human being at the drop of a hat. No conversian to life has taken place here, simply another arbitrary choice has been made.

reply from: Banned Member

I don't hate her. I revile her blatant disregard for human life. I don't think that such an attitude should go unanswered. If someone asked her today if they should get an abortion, she would not stop them.

reply from: Banned Member

After many years devoted to the prochoice movement I've finally realized how wrong I've been. What lives in the womb is a child and there is no excuse for killing it. Today when I saw my unborn child on the ultrasound my whole life and opinion changed. I realized I am pregnant with a person, who's older sibling I murdered. I've realized that abortion is simply a way to murder your child legally, and that the legality of it is why for so long I've convinced myself it's okay, and why I myself was willing to get one.
I've realized that I've killed my baby, and I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. The only reason I ever debated with any of you was it was a way to tell myself what I did was okay and to put off feeling guilty a little longer. I am sorry for any trouble I've caused any of you, and I want to thank you for helping me see the light. I'm going to seriously rethink my life and the choices I've made.
God Bless!
Lolita Olivia
Seriously, just kidding!
This to me implies a complete lack of repentance. There is almost something sociopathic about it in fact. "Sorry I killed someone... oops, just kidding!"
For years I have been told what a difficult decision is and this person shows me how cavalier someone can be about taking a human life. Her model of behaviour would be enough to make any woman think long and hard before getting an abortion.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

I actually wasn't just screwing with you for the sake of it. My point was to point out how silly that whole teddybear conversion thing looks. Anyone who read that post, before reaching the "just kidding" part, would've still felt it just doesn't seem "right". It's pretty ridiculous to think, as some of you do, that a lifelong choicer is going to change their mind through an ultrasound or some bloody pictures, and therefor I doubt teddybearhamster was ever anything other than pro-life. I actually think she's a sockpuppet.

reply from: sander

You can think whatever the h you want. Sorry murderer, people do change by seeing those pictures. I've seen it happen in my own home.
It just gauls you that someone could change their mind because it makes you look worse than you all ready do, and that takes something.
P/S nobody cares what a murderer thinks.

reply from: jujujellybean

the fact alone you posted
was enough to give anyone a clue you were lying.

reply from: sander

was enough to give anyone a clue you were lying.
Very good observation, Juju!

reply from: Skippy

Nope. Twenty-five states have feticide laws that cover the entirety of a wanted pregnancy. Ten have feticide laws that kick in at a certain juncture, usually presumed viability. The rest of the states don't recognize any fetuses as victims irrespective of who kills them.

reply from: jujujellybean

Thank you. She didn't say anything about having a conversion, so obviously it was bogus. Seriously! Lying doesn't fit you very well...at least you can't do it very well...

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

The first part of your post was nice. It would have been good news if you had seen the light. I did read your post speculatively, suspecting you were being sarcastic.
After such pleasantries in the first half of the post, then came the harsh realities in the second half; the Lolita who wants to be as bad as she can be. You threw out phrases like "hell if I'll change" and you are "stupid" to think otherwise. What a disgusting turn when the post turned back to the reality of who you really are.
No Apostle Paul conversion experience in your life. Paul was ashamed beyond measure that he had previously arrested, locked up and looked approvingly upon the death of others. He did a 180 degree turn; something very few do.

reply from: Faramir

I said a disembodied soul is not a baby, which it is not. It is not a baby, or an old man.
It bears NO resemblance to a statement that a fertilized egg is not a person.
Do you think a disembodied soul can be a baby?

reply from: joe

I was still prochoice when I had my daughters and they were both loved.
Being prochoice has nothing to do with not loving/liking children. Your post is just mean.
Blind fool. You are a sworn enemy of the unborn child...Satan.

reply from: Faramir

I was still prochoice when I had my daughters and they were both loved.
Being prochoice has nothing to do with not loving/liking children. Your post is just mean.
Blind fool. You are a sworn enemy of the unborn child...Satan.
If she's a "blind fool" then she has an excuse, doesn't she?
I don't think Satan is a "blind fool," do you?

reply from: joe

False Christian you have no authority to speak about truth.
You and her are both blind to the truth and fools for being deceived by Satan.

reply from: nancyu

Nope. Twenty-five states have feticide laws that cover the entirety of a wanted pregnancy. Ten have feticide laws that kick in at a certain juncture, usually presumed viability. The rest of the states don't recognize any fetuses as victims irrespective of who kills them.
Thanks for correcting me. Those are interesting facts about our states. But still, 35 states which protect only the wanted children, makes the same point. So that leaves 15 states which are at least consistent, and nondiscriminatory about who is allowed to be killed. In those states it is okay to kill any and all unborn children, right? Isn't that just ducky.
It seems true to me that our society's problems go deeper than just abortion. Even women who miscarry naturally, don't tend to get the same level of sympathy, that women who lose born children will. They are not expected to have a funeral or a burial or any type of service for that child. Even though the mother might feel very deep grief it too often isn't recognized by those around her.
These attitudes have begun to change, though, because of visuals from ultrasound technology and modern medicine which can save premature babies at younger and younger ages. With all of this and the internet it's hard to believe that some people still aren't convinced that an unborn child is a person.

reply from: joe

To those worthy of the Kingdom of God the answer is yes. Those that belong to your Father they would continue to support the killings.

reply from: 4given

I agree with this. It is sickening that she finds abortion - especially her own child's abortion to be a source of amusement and attention.

reply from: 4given

I believe it is within her true nature to be deceptive.

reply from: Banned Member

Certainly Satan is not a blind fool, but he certainly does blind fools.

reply from: nancyu

So anyone who concedes that the unborn child is a "person" is prolife, even if they support legal abortion on demand? Just out of curiosity, how do you justify adding me to "the list" of pro-aborts based on your personal "definitions?" I must say that you are operating under some pretty bizarre views of the terminology in my opinion...
Because idiot. If an unborn child is not a person, whose life are you defending? If you recognize an unborn child as a person, you are also recognizing that there is no right to kill that person under the law.

reply from: galen

nancy Cp is right.. once does not necessarily cancel out the other.
Human beings are twisted in thier own brands of logic. While one person may say that a fetus is a person that same person may also be a sociopath and gleefully run an abortion mill so that he/ she can kill as many of those persons as they want. At this time its the only legal way to be a serial killer.

reply from: galen

Certainly Satan is not a blind fool, but he certainly does blind fools.
----------------------------
You know Augustine most of the time i respect your opinion... but why would you see fit to take God's work... this child and attribute it to anything but some good none of us has forseen yet?
You have me greatly confused in what you believe..
Why do we get to say who deserves what.. isn't that god's place and perogative?

reply from: nancyu

I don't believe that. Neither do you, neither does CP, neither does CM, neither does Obama, neither does Planned Parenthood, neither does Hillary, neither does anyone.
If you, and everyone pro life did, there would be NO difficulty in getting it passed, now would there.
The law. The law would protect them if they are persons. The law would be required to protect them. And you know it. Are you (a very, very bad word was here. a million times worse than menstrual chunk or snot crust, sorry galen) galen? Why would you deny legal person hood for the unborn? What other way is there to protect them and defend them. If they are not persons, there is no one to protect and no one to defend. You think you can go on forever trying to convince women that they should choose to let their child live? What of the ones who won't? What about those babies? What about the ones the mother just doesn't want?

reply from: Teresa18

I knew this was fake the moment I saw the author of the thread. If you recall, fellow pro-abort QueenJ pulled the same stunt months ago just for kicks. Around 4,000 children are killed on a daily basis nationwide. The nationwide slaughter of the unborn is certainly no laughing matter.
Congratulations on your pregnancy, Olivia. I am glad to hear that you have decided not to abort your child but rather to keep and raise him/her. It does sadden me to think of your child who never got the chance to be born and experience life outside the womb. I bet you would have grown to love him/her very much by now. He/she would be excited about his/her new sibling. I don't understand how you can not regret your abortion. I don't understand how you can kid about it as though it was and is no big deal. How can you see your child on the ultrasound and say it is ok for children just like him/her to be killed simply because they aren't wanted, as though that suddenly removes their God-given right to life? I do hope that someday you have a true conversion.

reply from: galen

oh nancy get a life!
You KNOW that your statement won't wash... just because i believe that a person is a person... no matter how small... just because a law says it is so... does not mean that a gazillion of the worlds persons will also see it that way.
But you know what.. if you are going to argue with everyone that does not believe you are 100% right, then you just go on ahead lady... you'll never get anyone to listen to you long enough to hear what you say.

reply from: Teresa18

I don't believe that. Neither do you, neither does CP, neither does CM, neither does Obama, neither does Planned Parenthood, neither does Hillary, neither does anyone.
If you, and everyone pro life did, there would be NO difficulty in getting it passed, now would there.
The law. The law would protect them if they are persons. The law would be required to protect them. And you know it. Are you pro choice too, galen? Why would you deny legal person hood for the unborn? What other way is there to protect them and defend them. If they are not persons, there is no one to protect and no one to defend. You think you can go on forever trying to convince women that they should choose to let their child live? What of the ones who won't? What about those babies? What about the ones the mother just doesn't want?
I think what Galen is saying is that there are people that believe they are persons, but they still don't want those persons to have the right to life. There are pro-aborts who could care less whether or not they are persons. They say that unborn children don't have the right to live attached to their mothers' bodies. There are pro-aborts who think they should be killed for population control. There are pro-aborts who simply don't like children. Of course you and I believe those reasons are ridiculous for depriving persons of their God-given right to life. Unfortunately, there are those pro-aborts that don't. There are people that kill the born knowing that they are persons. That's why we have murderers in prison.

reply from: galen

ande PS i have NEVER said i would deny them personhood and neither have many others you just named... so go stick a wad of gum up there and sit on it.

reply from: lukesmom

Hmmm if your unborn child wasn't a "people" why would you be looking for gender?
So, because your sil isn't trained and can't read an us, your supposed girl BABY isn't really a living person?
I am wondering why you even care about TBH? Oh right one less killer mom to recite the proabort agenda.
I am also wondering why you are posting the fact that you are carrying a "clump of cells" here (if you actually are pregnant as this may be another of your lies) and why this clump of cells deserves to live while the last "clump" you killed and then celebrated his/her death with a tea party?

reply from: nancyu

Teresa, now stop all this bullying, and watch the hate speech. CM and Faramir will surely report this to the moderator. How cruel to say she "killed" her child. That's so hateful and mean.

reply from: galen

good then i will call you a reguritated piece of mentstral chunk whenever possible too.

reply from: galen

I don't believe that. Neither do you, neither does CP, neither does CM, neither does Obama, neither does Planned Parenthood, neither does Hillary, neither does anyone.
If you, and everyone pro life did, there would be NO difficulty in getting it passed, now would there.
The law. The law would protect them if they are persons. The law would be required to protect them. And you know it. Are you pro choice too, galen? Why would you deny legal person hood for the unborn? What other way is there to protect them and defend them. If they are not persons, there is no one to protect and no one to defend. You think you can go on forever trying to convince women that they should choose to let their child live? What of the ones who won't? What about those babies? What about the ones the mother just doesn't want?
I think what Galen is saying is that there are people that believe they are persons, but they still don't want those persons to have the right to life. There are pro-aborts who could care less whether or not they are persons. They say that unborn children don't have the right to live attached to their mothers' bodies. There are pro-aborts who think they should be killed for population control. There are pro-aborts who simply don't like children. Of course you and I believe those reasons are ridiculous for depriving persons of their God-given right to life. Unfortunately, there are those pro-aborts that don't. There are people that kill the born knowing that they are persons. That's why we have murderers in prison.
--------------
you got it.

reply from: lukesmom

Over and over again we hear proaborts stating they know this is a life they are killing but they don't care. Does that make them prolife? Come on, REALLY!

reply from: galen

gee now nancy took her toys and went home.......* shuffles feet*
*sniff*

reply from: nancyu

I'm still here, and call me whatever names you like. That ^ is a good one.
Did you get that from the choicer website?

reply from: galen

great... i will you Zombie turd being eaten by maggotts with green glowing brains, farted out by slothsum deathtrolls as they drive by the rotting corpses of 10 day old vulture caracasses being Stirred by Dr Tiller.

reply from: sander

All righty then...leave for a few hours...whew.
There isn't anything good on TV....hun, will you pass the popcorn?

reply from: lukesmom

WOW! Mary, you definantly have a way with words. I didn't think you could top the menstral chunk but you did! Hahahaha!

reply from: galen

thx... and except for the tiller reffrence not a bad word in the bunch.

reply from: Teresa18

I don't agree with insulting people. I'd rather debate their position, but this site I'll link is neat. It's a Shakespherian insulter. It insults you cleverly with clean language.
http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/

My insult:

reply from: galen

this is my favourite one from the bard..
If you spend word for word with me, I shall make your wit bankrupt.

reply from: nancyu

LMAO!!
Sander, what was that you said about darkness screaming at the light??

reply from: galen

ya see nancy.. i'm Goth... you forget i thrive in darkness and revell in the light.
i will follow you so far thru hell that your own mother will scarce recognise you when your done. Purgutory will write hymns about you.

reply from: sander

LMAO!!
Sander, what was that you said about darkness screaming at the light??
I think it's got something to do with screaming maggots stirring dr. tilller...
But, whatever it is, it's very entertaining!

reply from: nancyu

Probably true, but your own lines are way more colorful.
Did you see this one? "Your virginity, your old virginity is like one of our French wither'd pears: it looks ill, it eats drily."
That one might make me pick up my toys and run home.

reply from: galen

why nancy... were you a virgin??

reply from: galen

wait ... wait... i think we'v e sucessfully hijacked loiltas thread about her baby... want to stop yet?

reply from: sander

Shoot....I've still got more popcorn left!

reply from: lukesmom

What a GREAT site! My faves so far:
Thou errant shard-borne boar-pig!
Thou frothy bat-fowling flap-dragon!
Your bum is the greatest thing about you; so that in the beastliest sense, you are Pompey the Great.
LMAO!
Can someone pass me the popcorn, pleez?

reply from: galen

well get nancy to call me prochoice again and i think my brain may get back to work...

reply from: nancyu

So say it.
"An unborn child is a person"

reply from: nancyu

I was once, a long time ago.

reply from: galen

never said anything diffrent... you did.

reply from: sander

Thou frothy bat-fowling flap-dragon!
ROFL!!! That is FUNNY!!
Here's a to go with the popcorn!

reply from: galen

llisten to that sander.... i think i hear the sound of a gangrenous toe expelling gas in the direction of her ear...

reply from: sander

I can't resist that one ^....time for a new sig, me thinks!

reply from: lukesmom

So say it.
"An unborn child is a person"
Oh for pete's sake, why are you kicking this dead horse again? Dear Lord say it aint so...

reply from: nancyu

Over and over again we hear proaborts stating they know this is a life they are killing but they don't care. Does that make them prolife? Come on, REALLY!
No, but what you won't hear them say is "an unborn child is a person" That would imply that they support legal person hood for unborn children. And no pro-choicer wants that.

reply from: lukesmom

Thank you so much, I needed a good cold one too!

reply from: sander

Is fartyboy here???
Dang...I didn't see him come in...

reply from: galen

lolololololol!!!!!!!!

reply from: sander

Thank you so much, I needed a good cold one too!
Thou frothy bat-fowling flap dragon is even funnier than blind dogs don't fart!
ROFL!
Just let me know when you need another cold one!

reply from: lukesmom

Is fartyboy here???
Dang...I didn't see him come in...
HEEEHEEEEHEEEE! Now that there is FUNNY!

reply from: nancyu

So say it.
"An unborn child is a person"
Oh for pete's sake, why are you kicking this dead horse again? Dear Lord say it aint so...
An unborn child is a person. (not a dead horse)

reply from: galen

nancy watch out i hear the slickery slathery sound of a dead horse coming to kick you......* shhhhhlock clop shhhhhlock clop*

reply from: lukesmom

Laughing so hard I spilled my beer AND may wet myself again!

reply from: galen

Can't say it can ya?
-------------------------
not to you dear sweet viscous and nauseating nancy... i might pollute the baby with this mouth.

reply from: lukesmom

So say it.
"An unborn child is a person"
Oh for pete's sake, why are you kicking this dead horse again? Dear Lord say it aint so...
An unborn child is a person. (not a dead horse)
I don't think you are a fool. But then, what's my own humble opinion against thousands of others?

reply from: Teresa18

I think some of you have been drinking too much beer in this thread.
You, minion, are too saucy.
Thou loggerheaded clay-brained apple-john!
Thou elvish-mark'd, abortive, rooting hog!
Thou cockered malmsey-nosed wagtail!
Thou clay-brained guts, thou knotty-pated fool, thou whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch!
Hence, horrible villain, or I'll spurn thine eyes like balls before me; I'll unhair thy head, Thou shalt be whipp'd with wire, and stew'd'in brine, smarting in lingering pickle. (Sander should use this in a sig directed to the pro-aborts)

reply from: nancyu

I'm going home, but you can keep the toys. Nightie night now. Have fun ya'll
An unborn child is a person.

reply from: sander

Just never know what fun can be had on this board!
Here....

reply from: galen

bye bye you uncouth slowwitted doomcookie.

reply from: sander

So many to choose from, so little space!
This one seems very appropriate too!
Thou elvish-mark'd, abortive, rooting hog!
But, the last one....what a corker! Oh my gosh...Teresa, you have got to have found the best web site on earth!

reply from: faithman

I think I will.
I think you will too. It is hardly ever the apeasers and compromiser that achieve great goals. It is the absolutists. Either the womb child is absolutely a person worthy of equality with the rest of us or they are not. It is absolutely the right thing to always stand for the truth no matter if anyone agrees. The only way this slaughter ends is for equality thru personhood is establish. Everything we do must be focus upon reaching this final goal. Anyone who would stand in the way of that goal is the enemy of the womb child.

reply from: galen

yes hat's off to Teresa for the site.
did every one have fun?

reply from: sander

Too much for it to be legal!

reply from: Teresa18

Glad you all like the site. I thought the "abortive" one was perfect for this site. I remember back in my freshman year of high school our English teacher talked about Shakespearian insults when we studied Shakespeare. I saw the insults in this thread and googled Shakespearian insults. There it was. The first site at the top. We could have some fun with this site here. Don't let Faithman get any ideas, though.

reply from: faithman

OK!!! SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH we won't tell him..... snicker.

reply from: galen

I think I will.
I think you will too. It is hardly ever the apeasers and compromiser that achieve great goals. It is the absolutists. Either the womb child is absolutely a person worthy of equality with the rest of us or they are not. It is absolutely the right thing to always stand for the truth no matter if anyone agrees. The only way this slaughter ends is for equality thru personhood is establish. Everything we do must be focus upon reaching this final goal. Anyone who would stand in the way of that goal is the enemy of the womb child.
-----------------------
you missed the point FM....

reply from: faithman

I think I will.
I think you will too. It is hardly ever the apeasers and compromiser that achieve great goals. It is the absolutists. Either the womb child is absolutely a person worthy of equality with the rest of us or they are not. It is absolutely the right thing to always stand for the truth no matter if anyone agrees. The only way this slaughter ends is for equality thru personhood is establish. Everything we do must be focus upon reaching this final goal. Anyone who would stand in the way of that goal is the enemy of the womb child.
-----------------------
you missed the point FM....
There is no other point.

reply from: sander

I just put it in my favorites!
Thanks for going to the trouble! What a fun thead you made happen, Teresa! Thanks again!

reply from: galen

* watches as FM slamms his head into a brick wall... again*
the point was her way of approaching it....
then calling ME prochoice... along with a few other people...
and saying i would deny personhood to all fetuses embyo's etc.
So go read..

reply from: AshMarie88

You are sick Lolita, very sick.

reply from: teddybearhamster

what's this about me being a 'sock puppet'? LOL LOL LOL! that's original. i think someones just pissed i changed my mind on this issue. oh well.

reply from: Faramir

Too bad she won't find a cure in this hell-hole. She will instead be called names and will be insulted, because it's lots of fun to feel better than someone else.

reply from: nancyu

So say it.
"An unborn child is a person"
Oh for pete's sake, why are you kicking this dead horse again? Dear Lord say it aint so...
An unborn child is a person. (not a dead horse)
I don't think you are a fool. But then, what's my own humble opinion against thousands of others?
If I was worried about what thousands of others thought about me I would be a pro choice, pro lifer, like thousands of others. Then you would you like me?

reply from: nancyu

Another one from the choicer website?

reply from: galen

what happened nancy, did a vulture stirr your brains last night?

reply from: sk1bianca

lolita, do you love your child? do you think of him/her as a child? your sense of humor isn't very good...
chiar e stricata femeia. poate copilul ii va baga mintile in cap... cine stie...
galen, where did you learn romanian? it's really nice to see people speak my language

reply from: nancyu

Maybe. I'm more of a morning person.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Too bad she won't find a cure in this hell-hole. She will instead be called names and will be insulted, because it's lots of fun to feel better than someone else.
She is headed towards a "hell-hole" after life. An abortion clinic could also be referred to as a "hell hole". It is the very gates to death. Some of the grief she suffers on this site for being a loud and proud kill'em dead almost momma is what she needs. Although, she has confessed that she is determined to continue her tailspin towards death.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

That wasn't my purpose, but I am having a lot of fun watching you guys insult each other, though I think some of you are far too harsh. If I had known this was going to cause so much internal conflict I would've done this ages ago.
And I have to ask, for the 'lifers who don't support personhood for the fetus, why are you pro-life then? If you don't think it's a person, are you just in it to oppress women? I mean, what could possibly be the logic behind being pro-life and not wanting personhood for the unborn? It's like being pro-choice but not supporting legal abortion.
Bad capitalization and missing apostrophes. "LOL LOL LOL!"? How is this not faithman? If you're not faithman, you're a great impersonator.

reply from: sander

Yeah, but she's alot better speller.
I'm bad at punctuation too, who does that make me?
It just gauls you that someone can see how horrible abortion is, it makes you feel guilty for murdering your first chld. So, stop lying, it's very unbecoming and you've got enough going against you as it is.

reply from: nancyu

That wasn't my purpose, but I am having a lot of fun watching you guys insult each other, though I think some of you are far too harsh. If I had known this was going to cause so much internal conflict I would've done this ages ago.
And I have to ask, for the 'lifers who don't support personhood for the fetus, why are you pro-life then? If you don't think it's a person, are you just in it to oppress women? I mean, what could possibly be the logic behind being pro-life and not wanting personhood for the unborn? It's like being pro-choice but not supporting legal abortion.
Bad capitalization and missing apostrophes. "LOL LOL LOL!"? How is this not faithman? If you're not faithman, you're a great impersonator.
There goes your theory about no one listening to me galen.

reply from: Faramir

Don't give yourself too much credit. The insults and internal conflict preceded you.
And I don't know of any lifer here who does not support personhood for the fetus.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

That wasn't my purpose, but I am having a lot of fun watching you guys insult each other, though I think some of you are far too harsh. If I had known this was going to cause so much internal conflict I would've done this ages ago.
You say you like to cause internal conflict. You say you love to see people insulting each other. You say it's so much fun you wish you had done it earlier.
Did you take any time to consider what other posters have told you earlier; that you are sick and need help? Do you hate humans? Do you like to kill young human beings? Do you get a kick out of seeing adults fight? Do you like it when people hurt each other? You are one sick character Lolita. That's why Satan's children (that's you) will have no inheritance.

reply from: sander

Whoa there, Godslaw...you're going to get the "holier than thou" police on you for speaking the unvarnished truth!
I see a ticket in your future....good thing you have Someone to intercede on your behalf!

reply from: isaiahmom5242007

The funny thing is that you have by being pro choice are aying that the child that you are carrying has no value and that it is not even human right? so you belive that the child that you are carrying has no value, is not a person and has no rights/ Is that correct. Because if your prochoice then unborn babies are disposable and they have no right to live? therefore you are saying that your child has no value am I correct? Congrats on your baby, but it seems that if you are prochoice that the baby doent matter nuntil it born right?

reply from: sander

For the sake of the baby she's carrying, let's hope she's not as radical as some of her proabort cohorts. Because the likes of Sen. Boxer and Pete Singer think a woman has the right to kill her child up to six weeks AFTER birth! And don't think that isn't an impossible law to be enacted. It's the next logical step in a culture of death where the unborn are considered so much trash.

reply from: Faramir

I've seen some of those posts.
You must have dared to disagree with some of the PC prolifers here at one time or another.
If you ruffle their feathers or offend their delicate egos, you become a "pro abort" by default.

reply from: JesusLovesYou

Congratulations on your baby. I hope you don't kill him.

reply from: galen

----------------------------------
We had a woman here at the crisis shelter who spoke it... she refused to speak english because she was so scared... so i learned... now i speak to her through the PC and practice with her on the phone. BTW she is much better now and her beautiful baby is 4 years old.

reply from: galen

That wasn't my purpose, but I am having a lot of fun watching you guys insult each other, though I think some of you are far too harsh. If I had known this was going to cause so much internal conflict I would've done this ages ago.
And I have to ask, for the 'lifers who don't support personhood for the fetus, why are you pro-life then? If you don't think it's a person, are you just in it to oppress women? I mean, what could possibly be the logic behind being pro-life and not wanting personhood for the unborn? It's like being pro-choice but not supporting legal abortion.
Bad capitalization and missing apostrophes. "LOL LOL LOL!"? How is this not faithman? If you're not faithman, you're a great impersonator.
There goes your theory about no one listening to me galen.
---------------------------------
listen death monkey... you still don't listen... snd your reading comprehension of what i said is not too good either.

reply from: nancyu

I don't think I misread anything. Tell me then, what did I misunderstand? I know you are pro life, (in a [bad, bad word, million times worse than menstural chunk or snot crust, sorry galen] sort of way)
I really enjoy your creative insults, but don't you have more important things to do? Like passing on the word that an unborn child is a person, who should be protected by the same laws that protect you and me.

reply from: galen

nope and if you read anything you would know that i spend most of my mornings doing just that... except when i am dealing with radiation treatments and nuerosurgery appt... brain tumour thing you know.
what's your excuse?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Gosh, I thought you were a proper Catholic woman. But your posts are prettty insulting at times and the death gray alien image gives me the creeps. Tumors and strokes have been known to turn pleasant people into combative individuals. I've personally seen it happen.

reply from: nancyu

Gosh, I thought you were a proper Catholic woman. But your posts are prettty insulting at times and the death gray alien image gives me the creeps. Tumors and strokes have been known to turn pleasant people into combative individuals. I've personally seen it happen.
Galen, until yesterday evening there was no doubt in my mind that you were 100% pro life. I have great admiration for your intelligence and knowledge of the medical aspect of the pro life movement. I did suspect there was something about me that was rubbing you the wrong way. When you defended CP it caused me to question your stance, and when I did you really did become more defensive then seemed normal, but I just thought maybe you were having fun.
I had no idea that you had medical issues. Is it possible that G4U2L is right?

reply from: carolemarie

There is nobody who doesn't support personhood for the baby.
There are however people who don't want to see a witch hunt to jail women and a move to ban the pill. It has nothing to do with oppressing women, which in my opinion is what abortion does. It has to do with what can logically pass and what can not.

reply from: galen

i defend anyone who i see making a point i consider worthy...sometimes its CP CM FM or others... if you'de listened maybe you would have realised it.
and no this is they way i get when i am mad at someone... so yeah.. maybe i have personality changes... but my anger is real..believe me .
You can call me a LOT of things but NEVER call me prochoice.

reply from: sander

There is nobody who doesn't support personhood for the baby.
There are however people who don't want to see a witch hunt to jail women and a move to ban the pill. It has nothing to do with oppressing women, which in my opinion is what abortion does. It has to do with what can logically pass and what can not.
Yes, we've heard all your excuses before...blah, blah, blah.
Musn't upset mommy dearest, we know...and it still remains a sickening position while claiming to be prolife.
I suppose murderers of born people who are caught are just victims of witch hunts too....

reply from: galen

Gosh, I thought you were a proper Catholic woman. But your posts are prettty insulting at times and the death gray alien image gives me the creeps. Tumors and strokes have been known to turn pleasant people into combative individuals. I've personally seen it happen.
---------------------------------------------
I happen to like my alien head... i have always had an odd sense of humour. I think i'll keep him a bit... BTW this 'proper' catholic woman has always had a colourful tounge... i think it goes over much better than actually useing curse words... it makes people think. i am very plesant untill someone calls me prochoice... even halfway.

reply from: nancyu

There is nobody who doesn't support personhood for the baby.
There are however people who don't want to see a witch hunt to jail women and a move to ban the pill. It has nothing to do with oppressing women, which in my opinion is what abortion does. It has to do with what can logically pass and what can not.
Carolemarie, this post is just so dishonest it makes me crazy. YOU do not support personhood legislation, because of your fear of women being jailed, and because of your fear that b/c will be outlawed.
Personhood CAN logically pass, because it IS logical that unborn babies ARE "persons" Because that is what they are. They are innocent, defenseless, unborn, living, human persons. They should be protected by the SAME laws which protect you and me.

reply from: nancyu

I heard that loud and clear.

reply from: carolemarie

Sigh...Sigh...Sign....Once again..........
I will support personhood as long as it has an exception covering at least those two things. Rape and incest probably as well.
I know that you don't get it. But without that, your bill WILL NOT PASS. I will support it in passable form. Call me names, but I am more interested in legislation that will pass than making you happy.
FYI-I have no fear of women being jailed since I wouldn't be one of them! I think your love of that provision will defeat your bill, and I am sure that would be okay with you since it isn't about ending abortion but your idea of justice.
I support pro-woman pro-baby legislation. Not ideologically correct bills doomed to go down in flames.
Now can we get back to the topic of this tread?

reply from: galen

Sigh...Sigh...Sign....Once again..........
I will support personhood as long as it has an exception covering at least those two things. Rape and incest probably as well.
I know that you don't get it. But without that, your bill WILL NOT PASS. I will support it in passable form. Call me names, but I am more interested in legislation that will pass than making you happy.
FYI-I have no fear of women being jailed since I wouldn't be one of them! I think your love of that provision will defeat your bill, and I am sure that would be okay with you since it isn't about ending abortion but your idea of justice.
I support pro-woman pro-baby legislation. Not ideologically correct bills doomed to go down in flames.
Now can we get back to the topic of this tread?
-------------------------
why make the rape /incest exception......I understand your thinking on the others...but not this one.

reply from: 4given

Why? Are they less worthy of life? So what 4 things would you count as an exception to a personhood bill?

reply from: Faramir

Why? Are they less worthy of life? So what 4 things would you count as an exception to a personhood bill?
Her post clearly states that the reason for the exception is because it is more likely to pass, and not that those lives are "less worthy."

reply from: carolemarie

It was a maybe. Because the pro woman bill in S. Dakota didn't pass because of a lack of that exception. Maybe it would doom this one too, I don't know.

reply from: nancyu

Personhood with exceptions isn't logical and it is doomed forever. Personhood with no exceptions is difficult, but it is the only right thing to do. And it is the only thing that stands a chance.

reply from: galen

It was a maybe. Because the pro woman bill in S. Dakota didn't pass because of a lack of that exception. Maybe it would doom this one too, I don't know.
---------------------
the problem is that even if the bill passes with the exception the women that are hurt by abortion after rape/ incest are not protected and they end up with more pressure to abort. Women who go thru this experience are MORE violated and less able to heal after the rape. So who protects these women when the exception is made.. ( i know that some people think its a well meaning exception but its not) Also there is the fact that many women will lie in order to obtain the abortion... and tyo make someone have to go through the trial etc, just to obtain one would be deemed cruel... so what is the point?

reply from: sander

Good golly, miss molly....first an alien and now green hair!
That Terry has got a sense of humor!
The reason the republican party is in a sink hole is the same reason that a personhood bill fails. Neither have the courage of their convictions.
Stand up and do the right thing, for Christians to waver over what man would do, is a demonstration of a lack of faith.
SO WHAT if it isn't PC to leave off the exceptions of incest and rape, if God be for us, who can be against us!
It's like reading the story of the spies God sent out...only two believed so the rest and the two were doomed to wander the desert for 40 years!
Is God able or isn't He???? I say He's able to face down the giants of incest, rape and BC!

reply from: carolemarie

I am not againt birth control --

reply from: nancyu

It doesn't matter. An unborn child is a person anyway.

reply from: carolemarie

It was a maybe. Because the pro woman bill in S. Dakota didn't pass because of a lack of that exception. Maybe it would doom this one too, I don't know.
---------------------
the problem is that even if the bill passes with the exception the women that are hurt by abortion after rape/ incest are not protected and they end up with more pressure to abort. Women who go thru this experience are MORE violated and less able to heal after the rape. So who protects these women when the exception is made.. ( i know that some people think its a well meaning exception but its not) Also there is the fact that many women will lie in order to obtain the abortion... and tyo make someone have to go through the trial etc, just to obtain one would be deemed cruel... so what is the point?
I agree with you that it doesn't protect women, isn't logical, but if you can't get thelegislation passed without it what do you do? Save the most you can and go back and change it later.

reply from: galen

i'm not against barrier BC.. just not in my home as we are Catholic... i'm not against any other form of BC if its what is in the patient's best intrest. i teach NFP but do not teach it to unmarried couples...

reply from: nancyu

Personhood legislation should, and must be passed as soon as possible, but no sooner than possible, for one reason and one reason only, and it is the following:
An unborn child is a person.
(good nite)

reply from: joe

Galen and CM, your avatars are quite distracting. Is there a reason behind them?

reply from: galen

just for fun.. new ones were just put up today.. go have a look.

reply from: sander

Agreed.
Good nite...have a good rest!

reply from: joe

At least we have a selection now...some are very interesting.

reply from: galen

It was a maybe. Because the pro woman bill in S. Dakota didn't pass because of a lack of that exception. Maybe it would doom this one too, I don't know.
---------------------
the problem is that even if the bill passes with the exception the women that are hurt by abortion after rape/ incest are not protected and they end up with more pressure to abort. Women who go thru this experience are MORE violated and less able to heal after the rape. So who protects these women when the exception is made.. ( i know that some people think its a well meaning exception but its not) Also there is the fact that many women will lie in order to obtain the abortion... and tyo make someone have to go through the trial etc, just to obtain one would be deemed cruel... so what is the point?
Aren't all these things true under our current situation? The question is, can we afford to allow the other 90+% of abortions to continue without restriction for fear of leaving the rest behind? Sure, ultimately, every abortion should be prohibited, terminations being allowed only as part of life saving procedures, during which every effort should be made to preserve the lives of both mother and child, but polls show that bills that fail to address the issues of rape and incest will not pass...
---------------------------
I'm sorry Cp maybe i'm biased, but i look at my firstborn and i listen to the pain of these women, and this one i can't really condone. Not if there is anther way. Problem in my own head is i can also not find that other way , the people we need to testify about this are in too much pain and too much mental anguish to testify before congress...
so what to do.
i do see the logic of you arguement, but i'm too close to this one.

reply from: ProInformed

Lolita you apparently think this is all so funny... I used to be just as sarcastic and sure as you are (but never as nasty) that I would NEVER become pro-life or denounce the abortion I'd had. You hope and believe that you will be able to hold onto your current POV forever. Been there done that. The odds area against you remaining as rabidly pro-abort as you are now. Look how much your stubborn devotion to abortion has already warped you.
Either the birth of your baby will destroy your bond with the abortion industry or your bond with the abortion industry will prevent you from bonding normally and healthily with your baby. You don't have a clue honey.
Dr. Magda Denes, who spent two years interviewing abortionists for her book In Necessity and Sorrow: Life and Death Inside an Abortion Hospital, told a newspaper the following:
"There wasn't a doctor, who at one time or another in the questioning did not say, "This is murder."

reply from: LolitaOlivia

It kinda is.
I doubt it. The many older pro-choicers who are still convinced today of what they knew to be true thirty-five years ago when they helped legalize abortion are proof enough of that. My mom became pro-choice as a teenager and her beliefs haven't changed.
I'm still sure I'm saner than you are.
Pro-choice women can bond as easily with their children as anyone else. In fact, I imagine I'll be very close to my baby knowing I choose her and that I had her because I wanted to not because I felt I had to.
So she talked to every abortion doctor ever?

reply from: nancyu

If there is anyone out there in the physical world who knows who Lolita is, please keep an eye on her and her child. I don't believe she is fit to be a parent.

reply from: sander

One can only hope that when she looks into the eyes of this baby she deemed worthy of life, she'll see the face of the baby she deemed worthy of death.
It's a false sense of power women like this think they can wield at will. It has consequences she's yet to realize.

reply from: Banned Member

I am against birth control. I was conceived because birth control failed. Birth control is not perfect thank God. If it had been, I would wouldn't be here typing this right now.
Kid's shouldn't be getting pregnant because they 'think' they are having "safe sex" as young as 13 and 14. Safe sex is anything but safe.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

I'm perfectly fit to be a parent. You don't know me.

reply from: sander

I'm perfectly fit to be a parent. You don't know me.
There is room for questioning this, since you felt it fine to murder your first child.
And some of the bizarre statements you make here, leave open the door too.

reply from: QueenMay

you shouldn't joke about killing babys cuz there are real women who have to live wih that.

reply from: Faramir

I'm perfectly fit to be a parent. You don't know me.
There is room for questioning this, since you felt it fine to murder your first child.
And some of the bizarre statements you make here, leave open the door too.
I hate abortion as much as sander does, but is it going too far to call someone who aborts a murderer or to continually accuse them of murdering their child?
Murder is the unlawful and intentional killing of a human being by another.
In light of the definition above, it must furst be ULAWFUL, which it is not. And there would have to be a knowledge and intent to kill a human being, and the person who aborts might not be intending to kill a human being.
Yes, a person is killed. But to call those who abort "murderers" is a stretch, and an excuse to throw stones.

reply from: nancyu

I'm perfectly fit to be a parent. You don't know me.
There is room for questioning this, since you felt it fine to murder your first child.
And some of the bizarre statements you make here, leave open the door too.
I hate abortion as much as sander does, but is it going too far to call someone who aborts a murderer or to continually accuse them of murdering their child?
Murder is the unlawful and intentional killing of a human being by another.
Looks like you answer your own question here.
In light of the definition above, it must furst be ULAWFUL, which it is not. And there would have to be a knowledge and intent to kill a human being, and the person who aborts might not be intending to kill a human being.
It is unlawful. Do you remember this law: Thou shalt not murder.
Yes, a person is killed. But to call those who abort "murderers" is a stretch, and an excuse to throw stones.
It's not a stretch in Lolita's case. We'll throw stones all we want. I haven't seen a law that says "Thou shalt not throw stones" especially those which aren't actual stones, just words.

reply from: Faramir

Throw stones all you want, nancyu. There's no law against verbal stoning on the internet, as far as I know.
But you would have to take a lot of liberties with the definition of murderer and murder to apply them to someone, when the act is legal, and if there is no intent to kill another human being (and often there is no belief or knowledge it IS another human being).

reply from: sander

I'm perfectly fit to be a parent. You don't know me.
There is room for questioning this, since you felt it fine to murder your first child.
And some of the bizarre statements you make here, leave open the door too.
I hate abortion as much as sander does, but is it going too far to call someone who aborts a murderer or to continually accuse them of murdering their child?
Murder is the unlawful and intentional killing of a human being by another.
Looks like you answer your own question here.
In light of the definition above, it must furst be ULAWFUL, which it is not. And there would have to be a knowledge and intent to kill a human being, and the person who aborts might not be intending to kill a human being.
It is unlawful. Do you remember this law: Thou shalt not murder.
Yes, a person is killed. But to call those who abort "murderers" is a stretch, and an excuse to throw stones.
It's not a stretch in Lolita's case. We'll throw stones all we want. I haven't seen a law that says "Thou shalt not throw stones" especially those which aren't actual stones, just words.
I wonder how much PP pays fartnomore to consistently come to the defense of those who murder children in the womb and bash the prolife argument at every turn?
I'm guessing 30 pieces of silver.

reply from: Faramir

You're just trying to justify your ad hominem comments, sander.
They do nothing but make you feel superior to someone else. They do nothing to help the babies, who you are exploiting and using as a means to continue looking down on others from your high horse.
Look up the defintion of murder.
Abortion is an injustice and should be stopped. But I am not helping the babies or helping someone who is postabortive to see the light by pointing a finger at her and screaming "murderer."
And for the record, your self-righteous posturing is not "the prolife argument."

reply from: nancyu

If it isn't murder, then why is it an injustice?

reply from: nancyu

So you do not believe in this law? How pro life of you.

reply from: sander

If it isn't murder, then why is it an injustice?
Good question.
Notwithstanding the usual Christian bashing of some or the misguided beliefs of others, "Thou shalt not murder" has never been dependant on any eartly law for validation.

reply from: sander

I saw the aviator and thought, my memory has finally reached it's all time low...LOL! I couldn't remember posting this!

reply from: faithman

Just saw juno. What a great movie.

reply from: nancyu

I saw the aviator and thought, my memory has finally reached it's all time low...LOL! I couldn't remember posting this!
haha, did I confuse you? Sorry about that.

reply from: nancyu

Is it. I'll have to rent it. I haven't seen it yet.

reply from: sander

I saw the aviator and thought, my memory has finally reached it's all time low...LOL! I couldn't remember posting this!
haha, did I confuse you? Sorry about that.
That's okay, it gave me a chuckle once I realized it wasn't my memory after all...not to mention some relief!

reply from: Faramir

There's a man here who settles these things with his dictionary.
Let him define "murder" for us.
As a layperson, however, my understanding is that it must be an "unlawful" killing and that there must be an "intent to kill a human being."
If the aborter is not breaking the law, and does not believe she is killing a human being, isn't our evidence for calling her a "murderer" a little sparse?
Though I admit, it must be lots of fun to call someone such a horrible name, if they're into name calling and degrading others.

reply from: nancyu

Is that so? A pro choice argument if I've ever seen one.

reply from: Faramir

Is that so? A pro choice argument if I've ever seen one.
It is?
Can you tell me how?
Do you think the soul of a baby that dies is a "baby soul" and the soul of an old man that dies is an "old man soul"?

reply from: QueenMay

Is that so? A pro choice argument if I've ever seen one.
It is?
Can you tell me how?
Do you think the soul of a baby that dies is a "baby soul" and the soul of an old man that dies is an "old man soul"?
i'm new here, so ur pro-choice right? if ur pro-life i'm sorry but every post of yours i've seen seems pro-abortion...

reply from: nancyu

I guess you missed the post where I took you off of my list, I am thinking of putting you back on though, because I admit Yoda's definition is more accurate than mine was.

reply from: Faramir

Is that so? A pro choice argument if I've ever seen one.
It is?
Can you tell me how?
Do you think the soul of a baby that dies is a "baby soul" and the soul of an old man that dies is an "old man soul"?
i'm new here, so ur pro-choice right? if ur pro-life i'm sorry but every post of yours i've seen seems pro-abortion...
I believe in personhood from the moment of conception until natural death. I believe an abortion is in injustice and should be illegal.
See if you can figure out a way to make that into a pro-abortion argument.

reply from: Faramir

I guess you missed the post where I took you off of my list, I am thinking of putting you back on though, because I admit Yoda's definition is more accurate than mine was.
What is yoda's definition?
Anyonoe who notices and has the nerve to point out that he is a nasty arrogant man who uses the prolife issue as an excuse to harrass and browbeat others, is "pro abort"?
I'm guessing from observing his behavior that that's his definition, but if you have something different, please post it.

reply from: sander

Is that so? A pro choice argument if I've ever seen one.
Of ALL the pro-choice arguments and I mean ALL, this is the most ignorant and lame!
Fartnomore goes around telling others they're playing God, yet he doesn't blink an eye at typing something so ludicruos his own church doesn't believe.
I think he watches too much sci-fi...that is when he can tare himself away from his paid duties of posting on PLA.

reply from: Faramir

Is that so? A pro choice argument if I've ever seen one.
Of ALL the pro-choice arguments and I mean ALL, this is the most ignorant and lame!
Fartnomore goes around telling others they're playing God, yet he doesn't blink an eye at typing something so ludicruos his own church doesn't believe.
I think he watches too much sci-fi...that is when he can tare himself away from his paid duties of posting on PLA.
I haven't said anything against Catholic theology.
When a baby dies, it's soul is not a "baby" anymore. There is no such thing as a "baby soul."
There is no such thing as an "old woman soul" either.
A person who is mentally retarded and dies does not have a retarded soul
A person who is an amputee does not have an amputee soul.
A person who dies of cancer does not have a cancerous soul.
When someone dies, oldness, youngness, babyness, tallness, shortness, or defects of the body do not continue in the life of the soul. At the resurrection, the soul will be united with a perfect new body. The old man will not be given a wrinkled up old body, and the fetus will not be given a fetus body, but a fully formed one.
How anyone can turn that into a "prochoice argument" is beyond me. That's really grasping at straws.

reply from: nancyu

Yet another great pro choice argument.

reply from: nancyu

Oh, I believe it was a law, I'm just pointing out the fact that it never meant what you think it does. You are clutching at straws in an attempt to argue that abortion is illegal, but it obviously is not. We need to make it illegal, and it is downright ridiculous to assert that it already is. Even those who tout "the laws of God" can not show that abortion is forbidden by God. The closest you can get is to interpret the scriptures so that you are forbidden to abort, but have no right to interfere with others. The law of the land is another matter, and it is the one that counts anyway, right? That's the one that we have to change. Your little spiel just makes you look silly.
And another. If you are pro life, why do you keep making the pro choicer's arguments for them?
I believe in "thou shalt not murder" I believe abortion is murder, therefore I believe it is unlawful. Are you trying to talk me out of my beliefs? Are you trying to convince me to be pro choice? If so well, good luck with that.

reply from: sander

Yet another great pro choice argument.
He's getting paid overtime, it's Sunday you know.
And did he just lambast someone for calling names? This coming from someone who uses the terms, *ick and *rick to describe a fellow poster???
My, my...I'm telling you, a new term for hypocrite has been born on this board; Faramir, interchangable with fartnomore.

reply from: Faramir

Could be why I got booted from his private thread.
Do you know if PP would actually pay someone to post on a board?
I don't think they would be inclined to support me since I have not made one statement in support of abortion rights, and would be ecstatically happy to see abortion outlawed.

reply from: nancyu

I seem to recall being called a B itch, too. I think I'll have to report this.

reply from: sander

I'm so sorry you had to hear such a thing. Shame on fartnomore.
I only got told to put a stick somewhere he had no business mentioning, at least that I can recall....If I could read minds...well, need I say more?

reply from: Faramir

I'm so sorry you had to hear such a thing. Shame on fartnomore.
I only got told to put a stick somewhere he had no business mentioning, at least that I can recall....If I could read minds...well, need I say more?
If this poster would stop making personal attacks from behind an ignore button, she might see that she is barking up the wrong tree.
I didn't call anyone the "b" word, as appropriate as it might be for a few here.
It's funny how some have a very long memory for one insult long ago, that was followed by an apology, yet for them personal attacks and insults are a way of life.

reply from: nancyu

Oh, I believe it was a law, I'm just pointing out the fact that it never meant what you think it does. You are clutching at straws in an attempt to argue that abortion is illegal, but it obviously is not. We need to make it illegal, and it is downright ridiculous to assert that it already is. Even those who tout "the laws of God" can not show that abortion is forbidden by God. The closest you can get is to interpret the scriptures so that you are forbidden to abort, but have no right to interfere with others. The law of the land is another matter, and it is the one that counts anyway, right? That's the one that we have to change. Your little spiel just makes you look silly.
And another. If you are pro life, why do you keep making the pro choicer's arguments for them?
I believe in "thou shalt not murder" I believe abortion is murder, therefore I believe it is unlawful. Are you trying to talk me out of my beliefs? Are you trying to convince me to be pro choice? If so well, good luck with that.
It is a fact that abortion is legal. Our purpose is to change that, but denying it only makes us (technically you...) look stupid. This observation in no way implies support of current abortion laws, even if you can't wrap your pointy little head around that fact...
It is a fact that abortion is illegal
First there is "thou shalt not murder" for anyone who believes that "silly" law.
Then there is the 14th amendment to the US Constitution:
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
An unborn child is a person.

reply from: nancyu

Yes the Constitution and the Bible, both my delusions.

reply from: nancyu

Oh, I believe it was a law, I'm just pointing out the fact that it never meant what you think it does. You are clutching at straws in an attempt to argue that abortion is illegal, but it obviously is not. We need to make it illegal, and it is downright ridiculous to assert that it already is. Even those who tout "the laws of God" can not show that abortion is forbidden by God. The closest you can get is to interpret the scriptures so that you are forbidden to abort, but have no right to interfere with others. The law of the land is another matter, and it is the one that counts anyway, right? That's the one that we have to change. Your little spiel just makes you look silly.
And another. If you are pro life, why do you keep making the pro choicer's arguments for them?
I believe in "thou shalt not murder" I believe abortion is murder, therefore I believe it is unlawful. Are you trying to talk me out of my beliefs? Are you trying to convince me to be pro choice? If so well, good luck with that.
It is a fact that abortion is legal. Our purpose is to change that, but denying it only makes us (technically you...) look stupid. This observation in no way implies support of current abortion laws, even if you can't wrap your pointy little head around that fact...
It is a fact that abortion is illegal
First there is "thou shalt not murder" for anyone who believes that "silly" law.
Then there is the 14th amendment to the US Constitution:
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
An unborn child is a person.
Your denial of reality does not further our cause...You know the reality of the situation as well as I do, so I leave you to your delusional ranting...
So are you saying an unborn child is not a person?

reply from: Faramir

Is that so? A pro choice argument if I've ever seen one.
Of ALL the pro-choice arguments and I mean ALL, this is the most ignorant and lame!
Fartnomore goes around telling others they're playing God, yet he doesn't blink an eye at typing something so ludicruos his own church doesn't believe.
I think he watches too much sci-fi...that is when he can tare himself away from his paid duties of posting on PLA.
I haven't said anything against Catholic theology.
When a baby dies, it's soul is not a "baby" anymore. There is no such thing as a "baby soul."
There is no such thing as an "old woman soul" either.
A person who is mentally retarded and dies does not have a retarded soul
A person who is an amputee does not have an amputee soul.
A person who dies of cancer does not have a cancerous soul.
When someone dies, oldness, youngness, babyness, tallness, shortness, or defects of the body do not continue in the life of the soul. At the resurrection, the soul will be united with a perfect new body. The old man will not be given a wrinkled up old body, and the fetus will not be given a fetus body, but a fully formed one.
How anyone can turn that into a "prochoice argument" is beyond me. That's really grasping at straws.
Hey nancyu,
Can you tell me how this is a prochoice argument, or did you misunderstand me the first time?
You might want to repost this so sander can see it, since she has followed yodaveter's courageous example of making personal attacks from behind an ignore button.

reply from: lukesmom

Here's a question for "all great and knowing Fartnomore". This is not a hypothetical question as it often happens in this world, can anyone say OJ? Anyway here is the question:
Say a person kills/murders another person. Say this person has some sort of delusion that what he has done is not murder. Say this person never gets caught and is free to roam the world. Is he or is he not a murder?
Now how is the above scenerio different from abortion?

reply from: Faramir

I'm not inclined to respond to your extremely disrespectful post. I don't give you a crude name and I expect the same courtesy.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

Fartnomore? That's priceless! Are you, like, five or something?

reply from: sander

What do you care?
It's more mature than your drivel filled posts.

reply from: Faramir

I believe yodavater invented that one, and she can score points with him by jumping on the bandwagon.
Why anyone would want to suck up to him is beyond me, but I gotta give him his dues--he does have a following here.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

What do you care?
It's more mature than your drivel filled posts.
No, it's not. It's just so terribly immature at first I thought you were saying it to be ironic!

reply from: sander

What do you care?
It's more mature than your drivel filled posts.
No, it's not. It's just so terribly immature at first I thought you were saying it to be ironic!
Maybe I wasn't giving you enough credit. Thought I was being generous in calling you immature considering your advocation of murdering born children.
But, have it your way....

reply from: lukesmom

Well excuuuuuuse me. You have called me Yoda's online wife, pretty funny actually, and a "gossip". That was very courteous. Can't take some of your own medicine? OBTW, Fartnomore didn't come from Yoda, that I know of anyway, wanna guess again?
And you didn't answer the question or couldn't answer the question? "Not inclined" is an excuse.

reply from: lukesmom

Glad you like it. If I am 5 than you are an abortable age and by your own beliefs, expendable.
Say, question for you, if you are "inclined" to answer, How long has it been since your abortion?

reply from: Faramir

It is murder to unlawfully kill someone.
If someone did that and didn't get caught, it is still murder.
Abortion is lawful, so it's not murder.
There must also be an intent to kill another human being for it to be murder, and often there is no intent to kill a human being by an abortion.
Just because we believe that's what happened does not mean that's what they intended.
Why are we going here anyway?

reply from: LolitaOlivia

Glad you like it. If I am 5 than you are an abortable age and by your own beliefs, expendable.
Say, question for you, if you are "inclined" to answer, How long has it been since your abortion?
A bit over 10 months.

reply from: lukesmom

Say WHAT? I can NOT believe I am reading this and you claim to be prolife. Nope, now I know my insticts were right, you are not.
If the unborn child is killed without the mother's consent it is murder in at least 36 states. So you agree abortion is not murder because killing the same unborn child is legal if the mother consents? You can't have it both ways and not be a proabort.

reply from: sander

Say WHAT? I can NOT believe I am reading this and you claim to be prolife. Nope, now I know my insticts were right, you are not.
If the unborn child is killed without the mother's consent it is murder in at least 36 states. So you agree abortion is not murder because killing the same unborn child is legal if the mother consents? You can't have it both ways and not be a proabort.
DING, DING, DING!
Tell her what she wins, Johnny!
Your insticts match those of many of us here. He didn't post but a couple of times before I had my doubts and he's done NOTHING since then but prove I was right to have those doubts over and over.
He can't kid all of us.

reply from: Faramir

Say WHAT? I can NOT believe I am reading this and you claim to be prolife. Nope, now I know my insticts were right, you are not.
If the unborn child is killed without the mother's consent it is murder in at least 36 states. So you agree abortion is not murder because killing the same unborn child is legal if the mother consents? You can't have it both ways and not be a proabort.
If it were murder, then these women would be in jail
It is lawful. The law is all screwed up, but it's still the law, so how can the lawful act of an abortion be murder, when murder is UNlawful?
If it's not lawful, then that's news to me, and I suppose I should celebrate, because that would be very good news.
BTW, your instincts are poop.
I am a practicing Catholic and prolife. I am prolife mainly because abortion IS lawful. That's the point, isn't it?
Besides that, for there to be a murder, there must be "an intent to kill another human being."
Can you say with certainty that all women who abort intend to kill?
My orginal point is that it is extreme to call the post abortive woman--even those who justify it--a "murderer."
It might be fun to throw the rocks, but I don't think that it helps the prolife side. I think it makes us look like we're nasty and unreasonable people. And I don't think it makes the post-abortive woman inclined to do any soul searching. Kindness would be a better way. Try it some time.

reply from: lukesmom

Say WHAT? I can NOT believe I am reading this and you claim to be prolife. Nope, now I know my insticts were right, you are not.
If the unborn child is killed without the mother's consent it is murder in at least 36 states. So you agree abortion is not murder because killing the same unborn child is legal if the mother consents? You can't have it both ways and not be a proabort.
If it were murder, then these women would be in jail
It is murder, just "legal" murder by the laws in this country but not all countries. Some countries are much more enlightened and moral than this country
It is lawful.
But not morally right. In Arkansas a man can legally beat his wife, but not more than once a month. That makes abuse right? In Florida, it is legal to tie your elephant to a parking meter if the parking fee is paid just as it would for a vehicle. Although it is against the law to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or street lamp. Guess they didn't think about a parking meter... Another example of our really GOOD laws, right, just plain stupid. Here is one that is as inconsistant as abortion laws: in Georgia it is lawful to spit from a truck but illegal to spit from a car or a bus. Stupid and inconsistant. In Michigan it is legal for a robber to file a law suit if he or she got hurt in your house. Need I go on?
If it's not lawful, then that's news to me, and I suppose I should celebrate, because that would be very good news.
Yea, right.
Your instincts are poop.
[You] speak an infinite deal of nothing
I am a practicing Catholic and prolife. I am prolife because abortion IS lawful. That's the point, isn't it?
No, that is NOT the point. To be prolife is to respect life on all levels DISPITE laws. I know alot of Catholics, practicing and not. I know a lot of nonCatholics. What does Catholic have to do with anything? You act as though that makes you better than non Catholics and let me assure you, you are not. You don't impress me.
Besides that, for there to be a murder, there must be "an intent to kill another human being."
How many proaborts have come here and said they knew this was a life but didnt' care as the mother is more important. If that is not intent, what is?
Can you say with certainty that all women who abort intend to kill?
Can't read can you? I have consistantly said not all women have that "intent" but that is what happens, right? Alcoholics don't intend to drink and drive and have an accident and kill someone but it happens regardless of intent. Geez, I can't believe you try to pass yourself off at a prolifer...
My orginal point is that it is extreme to call the post abortive woman--even those who justify it--a "murderer."
What is extreme is the fact that you come here every day, all day and you still don't understand. What is extreme is you trying to pass yourself off as prolife.
It might be fun to throw the rocks, but I don't think that it helps the prolife side. I think it makes us look like we're nasty and unreasonable people.
Don't say "we" and "prolife" in the same sentance as you would be lying and that is not throwing stones or unreasonable. I liked you a lot better when I was ignoring you, actually I wasn't so sick to my stomach either...

reply from: lukesmom

Glad you like it. If I am 5 than you are an abortable age and by your own beliefs, expendable.
Say, question for you, if you are "inclined" to answer, How long has it been since your abortion?
A bit over 10 months.
What is different now that you "want" the child you are now carrying? Could this be "replacement syndrome" that is often seen after having an abortion and regreting it?

reply from: Faramir

Are you looking for an excuse to call a prolifer a "proabort" or are you just plain dumb?
Abortion is legal.
It should NOT be legal, but unfortunately it is.
Since it is legal, anyone who aborts cannot be arrested as a murderer.
Is that such a hard concept?
Abortion is a grave injustice and the law needs to be changed, but meanwhile if you call the cops and report an abortion as a murder, they won't arrest anyone.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. I don't like it either. That's why I'm prolife.
If there is no intent to kill a human being, it also cannot be called a murder. A human being IS killed. That's why it's an injustice and that's why I oppose abortion, as every practicing Catholic should. But if the intent is not there, then the aborter is not a murderer.
If you want to score points around here, call me a "pro abort." Yoda and sander will love you for it, regardless of the fact that it's a lie.
But if you want to be somewhat honest, you will provide some evidence, and you won't be able to, since I have made it abundantly clear that I oppose abortion for all reasons, that it unjustly takes a human life, that life should be respected from conception until natural death, that personhood begins at conception, that prolife candidates should be supported, that Catholic prochoice candidates are traitors and should be excommunicated, and that abortion should be illegal.
If you can somehow make that into a "proabort" statement, then you are in some kind of denial.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

No. I don't regret the abortion. My circumstances have changed. I'm in love with the father, engaged to him. We got our own house with an extra room. I've finished most of my classes and we've come in to some money. Plus then I really didn't want to be pregnant. Now I do.

reply from: lukesmom

No. I don't regret the abortion. My circumstances have changed. I'm in love with the father, engaged to him. We got our own house with an extra room. I've finished most of my classes and we've come in to some money. Plus then I really didn't want to be pregnant. Now I do.
I find it very hard to understand that now, only 10 months later, you WANT to be pregnant. Sounds very much like replacement baby syndrome. Something to think about.

reply from: lukesmom

According to you anyway. According to me, you are a delusional proabort. So I guess we are even.

reply from: Faramir

Whatever.
This is not the first time you made something up so that you could have an excuse to lash out, and it won't be the last.

reply from: Faramir

Lame.
You're beyond lame.
You are a fellow Catholic and you are lashing out at me for basically NOTHING but a misunderstanding you desperately have to cling to, for fear of having to admit an error.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

No. I don't regret the abortion. My circumstances have changed. I'm in love with the father, engaged to him. We got our own house with an extra room. I've finished most of my classes and we've come in to some money. Plus then I really didn't want to be pregnant. Now I do.
I find it very hard to understand that now, only 10 months later, you WANT to be pregnant. Sounds very much like replacement baby syndrome. Something to think about.
Lives change. Besides, this baby wasn't the product of a fling, which makes all the difference.

reply from: sander

I see, "fling" is the criteria for killing babies. How wretched.

reply from: lukesmom

Thank you CP for your clarifications of what WAS posted as amusing and suppably "stupid" laws. I am from the midwest and have no idea what circus people in Florida do, nor do I really care. The point was, there are many laws that are "stupid" and inconsistant. Sorry if I offended you being you are from Florida. I really wonder though why you wasted your time with all this clarification of nothing?
Maybe you want to clarify and enlighten us to why the abortion laws were written and why they are necessary laws?

reply from: AshMarie88

No. I don't regret the abortion. My circumstances have changed. I'm in love with the father, engaged to him. We got our own house with an extra room. I've finished most of my classes and we've come in to some money. Plus then I really didn't want to be pregnant. Now I do.
I find it very hard to understand that now, only 10 months later, you WANT to be pregnant. Sounds very much like replacement baby syndrome. Something to think about.
Lives change. Besides, this baby wasn't the product of a fling, which makes all the difference.
*parasite, blob of blood, tissue... It's NOT a baby yet, it's just a piece of tissue. It's not alive and is not human.

reply from: ProInformed

"My circumstances have changed."
And you naively believe that your current circumstances will never change again?
What then? a late-term abortion? infanticide? fatal child abuse?
"I'm in love with the father, engaged to him."
And you've think 'falling out of love' and being dumped or divorced can't possibly happen to YOU?
"We got our own house with an extra room."
Why didn't you do this before you had sex and got pregnant, before you killed your first baby?
"I've finished most of my classes"
Feminists For Life has a program to support pregnant or parenting college students; What resources did the college you went to provide for you when you were pregnant with your first baby? Did you ask/challenge them to support REAL equality for women by providing the resources you and your baby needed?
"and we've come in to some money."
Again, WHEN (not if) you have financial problems in the future are you going to have a late-term abortion, or commit infanticide or fatal child abuse?
"Plus then I really didn't want to be pregnant. Now I do."
And of course ALL that matters it what you WANT right now...
Are you going to allow yourself to bond with this baby or are you going to stubbornly hold onto your anti-baby mentality just to justify killing your first baby?
At what exact point during your pregnany will you stop pretending your baby is just a glob of cells? How far into your pregnancy will you fight your maternal insticts to protect your baby from harm?
What are you going to do when you are shown photos of fetal development in prenatal class? Are you going to pretend the instructor is showing you 'anti-abortion-propaganda'? If you have a complication during this pregnancy or your baby is born prematurely or stillborn because of your past abortion, will you call yourself names and make fun of yourself for believing the false assurances that the abortion would not harm your future pregnancies and babies? Will you say it was OK that they lied to you and that it was your own fault for trusting them instead of checking out the risks for yourself?

reply from: LolitaOlivia

They might. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
When you love and want your child you can get through those things. And most of those are illegal.
It can, but hopefully not in the immediate future. Even if it did, I'm young and pretty and I'm sure I could remarry.
Because we didn't have that kind of money. Because I was still living in a dorm.
Because they didn't have those kinds of programs. Plus I didn't want to have a baby then, so it really didn't matter.
No.
Well, to me, yeah. I'm young. I have a right to be a bit selfish.
Pro-choice women bond fine with their kids. My mom's pro-choice and we're freakishly close.
Humans don't actually have strong maternal instincts. Love for your children is what carries you through. And my baby isn't a person till she's born, though I certainly care for her already.
Real fetal development photos aren't the same propaganda you guys use.
Most women who have abortions do not have any complications in later pregnancies. Even if something did happen, how do I know it's because of the abortion? Chances are it's something that would've happened anyway.

reply from: Banned Member

The doctrine on the necessary conformity of civil law with the moral law is in continuity with the whole tradition of the Church. This is clear once more from John XXIII's Encyclical: "Authority is a postulate of the moral order and derives from God. Consequently, laws and decrees enacted in contravention of the moral order, and hence of the divine will, can have no binding force in conscience...; indeed, the passing of such laws undermines the very nature of authority and results in shameful abuse". This is the clear teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas, who writes that "human law is law inasmuch as it is in conformity with right reason and thus derives from the eternal law. But when a law is contrary to reason, it is called an unjust law; but in this case it ceases to be a law and becomes instead an act of violence".96 And again: "Every law made by man can be called a law insofar as it derives from the natural law. But if it is somehow opposed to the natural law, then it is not really a law but rather a corruption of the law".

reply from: sander

Was it NARAL or PP that told you that lie? Maybe some asanine college professor, your mother, high school sex ed class? Someone lied.
March 7, 2008, 2:00 pm
Maternal Instinct Is Wired Into the Brain
A mother's impulse to love and protect her child appears to be hard-wired into her brain, a new imaging study shows.
The maternal instinct may be connected to brain circuitry, a new study suggests. (Francesco Tonelli for The New York Times)Tokyo researchers used functional magnetic resonance imaging (M.R.I.) to study the brain patterns of 13 mothers, each of whom had an infant about 16 months old.
First, the scientists videotaped the babies smiling at their mothers during playtime. Then the women left the room, and the infants were videotaped crying and reaching for their mothers to come back. All of the babies were dressed in the same blue shirt for the video shoot.
M.R.I. scans were taken as each mother watched videos of the babies, including her own, with the sound off. When a woman saw images of her own child smiling or upset, her brain patterns were markedly different than when she watched the other children. There was a particularly pronounced change in brain activity when a mother was shown images of her child in distress.
The scans suggest that particular circuits in the brain are activated when a mother distinguishes the smiles and cries of her own baby from those of other infants. The fact that a woman responds more strongly to a child's crying than to smiling seems "to be biologically meaningful in terms of adaptation to specific demands associated with successful infant care," the study authors noted.
Odd, since you just said maternal instincts weren't strong. Why on earth would you "care" for her already?
What IS strong is your denial.
Ah, that old fable. Well, we've asked a million times, would you be so kind as to show us the real photos?
If not, then just stop with this kind of idiotic postering.

reply from: Faramir

I'm embarrassed to admit I was just as bigoted and had the same misconceptions, and I happy to have been enlightened. All these years I've been thinking it was Chevy pickups.

reply from: nancyu

Oh, I believe it was a law, I'm just pointing out the fact that it never meant what you think it does. You are clutching at straws in an attempt to argue that abortion is illegal, but it obviously is not. We need to make it illegal, and it is downright ridiculous to assert that it already is. Even those who tout "the laws of God" can not show that abortion is forbidden by God. The closest you can get is to interpret the scriptures so that you are forbidden to abort, but have no right to interfere with others. The law of the land is another matter, and it is the one that counts anyway, right? That's the one that we have to change. Your little spiel just makes you look silly.
And another. If you are pro life, why do you keep making the pro choicer's arguments for them?
I believe in "thou shalt not murder" I believe abortion is murder, therefore I believe it is unlawful. Are you trying to talk me out of my beliefs? Are you trying to convince me to be pro choice? If so well, good luck with that.
It is a fact that abortion is legal. Our purpose is to change that, but denying it only makes us (technically you...) look stupid. This observation in no way implies support of current abortion laws, even if you can't wrap your pointy little head around that fact...
It is a fact that abortion is illegal
First there is "thou shalt not murder" for anyone who believes that "silly" law.
Then there is the 14th amendment to the US Constitution:
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
An unborn child is a person.
Your denial of reality does not further our cause...You know the reality of the situation as well as I do, so I leave you to your delusional ranting...
CP, Your denial of reality does not further our cause...You know the reality of the situation as well as I do. There is nothing delusional in my ranting. I am telling the truth.

reply from: cracrat

Wow, you sound like some of the people I grew up around in deepest darkest Zummerzettt...

reply from: lukesmom

If there is a particular law you would appreciate my commentary on, just tell me which one. I would appreciate specific questions, since I really am not inclined to write a book here.
I did not clarify "nothing," I attempted to allay your obvious misconceptions. Sorry if that offended you...I am accustomed to dealing with stereotypes regarding "southerners" such as myself. Some people seem to think we are all ignorant, barefooted rednecks who sleep with our sisters in our rundown mobile homes with chickens foraging in our front yards next to our '72 Ford pickup trucks... The truth is that there are over 100 of us who can claim less than half these things are true in our cases....
You didn't offend me and I hope I didn't offend you! Where I am from Florida is a place of expesive ocean front homes and retirement communities for the snowbirds from the midwest! What you listed above, I never in my wildest dreams would have associated with Florida...Texas, yes, Florida, no. Bet you think we shiver in below zero weather with snow 9 months out of the year, live on farms and entertain ourselves squaredancing at barn dances!

reply from: jujujellybean

No. I don't regret the abortion. My circumstances have changed. I'm in love with the father, engaged to him. We got our own house with an extra room. I've finished most of my classes and we've come in to some money. Plus then I really didn't want to be pregnant. Now I do.
*sigh*
it's sad that you can see an ultrasound and realize, hey, there is a baby developing there, and still not feel terrible about your abortion.

reply from: jujujellybean

please provide us with some 'real' ones please. seriously, what the heck do 'real' ones look like?

reply from: english

That is a very disgusting thing to say to someone.
It's the truth.
By having an abortion your future children have a higher risk of abnormalities and you have a higher risk of miscarriage. Which makes abortion even more selfish.

reply from: cracrat

please provide us with some 'real' ones please. seriously, what the heck do 'real' ones look like?
Here you go.
1st trimester: http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment1.php

2nd trimester: http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment2.php

3rd trimester: http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment3.php

This is, as the name suggests, a website devoted to helping expectant parents prepare for their lives being turned upside down and inside out. I can't find a single mention of abortion anywhere, pro- or anti-, so I think we can assume it's non-partisan in that respect. The pictures do look spookily like the others that have been posted here. But that's just my opinion.

reply from: jujujellybean

thank you for that; they do look just the ones that have been posted here that are called 'biased.' unfortunately for the pro aborts, they can't use that excuse any more....

reply from: carolemarie

I don't think that is necessarily true. Plenty of women have abortions and have no troubles with future pregnancies. The odds are more in the favor of having nothing go wrong.

reply from: Smurfy

Because many are the same picture. They've taken stock pictures from other sites.
The descriptions and wording are very non-professional.
There is no way I'd use this as a source for anything other than a junior school project.

reply from: cracrat

Because many are the same picture. They've taken stock pictures from other sites.
The descriptions and wording are very non-professional.
There is no way I'd use this as a source for anything other than a junior school project.
OK then. So how about:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm

from the US National Library of Medicine, do they qualify as professionals who know what they're talking about? Or:
http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/wwwhuman/Stages/Images/Cst800.jpg

from the University of New South Wales, Australia School of Medicine Online Resource Centre. In case you can't do the math, the final picture in the sequence is 8-9 weeks. Or:
http://www.health.state.mn.us/wrtk/handbook.html

from the Minnesota Department of Health. I particularly like the picture at 24 weeks with the fearsome mono-brow.
So, a Federal Library, a respected School of Medicine and a State Health Department. Are you seriously telling me that they're all making this up? Exactly who is it behind this great conspiracy to hide the 'truth' from us? And just where are the 'real' pictures, because I sure as hell can't find them?

reply from: Smurfy

I seriously said nothing of the sort.
Pull your head out of your ass.

reply from: cracrat

I seriously said nothing of the sort.
Pull your head out of your ass.
So you don't deny that these are accurate pictures of fetal development?

reply from: Smurfy

They're close enough.
However, those are not the pictures that have been posted before to support the pro-life cause.
i.e. Faithman posted an apparently 9 week fetus that was about half the size of a hand and had intestines. I posted a pic from an ABORTION site that showed a nine-week abortion where the arm of the fetus fitted onto a dime.
The discrepancy between sites can often be enormous - especially on your side of the argument.
Hence why I never pay attention to the pictures. I can't guarantee they are accurate.
Not only that, abortion pics have been shoved in my face so often that they are meaningless now. So the purpose of showing them to me has been defeated - I'm thoroughly inured to them.

reply from: nancyu

They're close enough.
However, those are not the pictures that have been posted before to support the pro-life cause.
i.e. Faithman posted an apparently 9 week fetus that was about half the size of a hand and had intestines. I posted a pic from an ABORTION site that showed a nine-week abortion where the arm of the fetus fitted onto a dime.
The discrepancy between sites can often be enormous - especially on your side of the argument.
Hence why I never pay attention to the pictures. I can't guarantee they are accurate.
Not only that, abortion pics have been shoved in my face so often that they are meaningless now. So the purpose of showing them to me has been defeated - I'm thoroughly inured to them.
That's a sad, crying shame, smurfy.
Having emotions and reactions is part of what makes us human beings. Your comment serves to reinforce my belief that pro aborts are not people.

reply from: cracrat

Does that make them unworthy of the same protection as you fight for for the unborn? How pro-abort must one be to fall outside the line, so to speak? Who decides? Why is judging people based on their abortion stance any different to judging them on their religion or level of education?

reply from: nancyu


Yes. They get the SAME protection from me that the unborn gets from the law.
Either you are pro abort or you are not. I don't know of any line.
Me, I'm not afraid of making judgments.
Because level of education, and level of religion are more complex than pro abortion/anti-abortion. There is some complexity, yes, but not as much. It's not a difficult judgment to make that smurfy has no feeling for unborn children. I have no idea what her level of education is, nor her level of belief in religion. But I'm pretty sure she is pro abortion.

reply from: sander

They're close enough.
However, those are not the pictures that have been posted before to support the pro-life cause.
i.e. Faithman posted an apparently 9 week fetus that was about half the size of a hand and had intestines. I posted a pic from an ABORTION site that showed a nine-week abortion where the arm of the fetus fitted onto a dime.
The discrepancy between sites can often be enormous - especially on your side of the argument.
Hence why I never pay attention to the pictures. I can't guarantee they are accurate.
Not only that, abortion pics have been shoved in my face so often that they are meaningless now. So the purpose of showing them to me has been defeated - I'm thoroughly inured to them.
That's a sad, crying shame, smurfy.
Having emotions and reactions is part of what makes us human beings. Your comment serves to reinforce my belief that pro aborts are not people.
True enough, Nancy.
I think it also is what makes the difference between a well functioning conscience and a sociopath. Smufy seems to fit the bill for the latter.


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics