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Another reason why personhood is vital

by: sander

This Saturday's service is no ordinary funeral," Pavone added.
"There are still too many of our fellow citizens who don't even acknowledge that the people who will be buried this Saturday are people at all," he explained. "To mourn their deaths publicly, therefore, is not just to honor them, but to sound a wake-up call to our nation that we are living amidst the biggest holocaust of all time."
All funerals are sad, it's hard to say good-bye.
But, this funeral is sadder still.
And this all remains under the radar because of what Pavone said, too many people don't reconize these babies as people.
It should make the headlines! But, the devil has too many willing helpers for it to ever make the 6 o'clock news or any newspaper at all.
God help us.
http://lifenews.com/state3186.html

reply from: galen

i remember hearing about this and then thinking it was a rehash of an older case... you mean this happened again?

reply from: sander

The article was published 5/1, so I'm not sure if it's a rehash or not.
But, that it happens at all is staggering.

reply from: galen

I'm thinking this is a new one... there was a group in the '90's that did this... and I really thought that the example made of that particular clinic would keep this from happening again. medical records too huh? At the verry least you would think the clinic would want to keep that private for the safety of its patients.

reply from: sander

The death mill owners know they can get away with anything, they have the protection of the prodeath officials. It all stinks to high heaven!
You'd think they'd care about the privacy of their patients, but they don't think about anything but themselves and the all mighty dollar.

reply from: galen

well maybe now no one will go to his'clinics' if they think their medical records might get out... what if one of us prolifers just happened to publish names or something.
it would be at the least bad for buisness.

reply from: sander

I hope you're right and no one will go to his clinics.
There's nothing sweeter than seeing an abortion death mill going bankrupt!

reply from: galen

except seeing them haunted by Mary Malone. And her 9 children.

reply from: yoda

When mass graves were dug up in Europe after WW2, in Bosnia, and many other trouble spots around the world, everyone took notice. Now mass graves are being made for thousands of dead children in dumpsters and sewers, and almost no one takes notice. This society condones mass killings on a scale like never before in world history.

reply from: galen

i wonder if the headline read...'Mass grave found with the remains of dead children.' would anyone pay attention then...? especially if it got them to read the story..dead kids, dumpsters and all.

reply from: sander

You're so right, Yoda. It's like Pavone said, too many people don't reconize these babies as people. That's stunning! It boggles the mind to think that these babies were thrown away as so much garbage. I grit my teeth in sheer anger and disgust as I think of the callous people in this country.
IF just one major news outlet carried the story with no bias either way, it might help some to think twice about this hideous law of abortion, so I think you have a point, Galen. Surely, some people would care.

reply from: sander

Wouldn't that be nice?
If they don't, then let's sick Mary Malone on them!

reply from: Teresa18

This case is related to those babies found in Hodari's dumpster in Michigan. We had a thread on this when it first came out. I'm glad to know these 14 babies get a proper burial instead of the medical waste pile. In that way, they are more fortunate than most babies aborted.

reply from: sander

One of my sisters miscarried a little boy when she was only about 16 weeks. At that time, (in the early 80's) there was no choice but to bury the little guy.
We had a sad but lovely funeral for him.
Is it really just a case of wanting the child that determines if they receive a burial? Couldn't our tax dollars be spent in showing at least a little common decency if the mother won't?
I'd glady pay out of my taxes for such a thing.
SHAME on this cold hearted, callous people that would throw another human being in the trash.

reply from: 4given

Info that led to this funeral..
Kim Kozlowski / The Detroit News
LATHRUP VILLAGE -- Police and state officials called in hazardous waste crews Monday to haul away blood-soaked medical waste found in the Dumpster outside of WomanCare, an abortion provider that operates six mid-Michigan clinics.
Alberto Hodari, the clinic's medical director, blamed the apparent improper disposal of materials on a new staff member.
Abortion foes say they have searched the clinic's garbage for a month and found improperly disposed medical waste, along with medical documents that should have been shredded. They informed Lathrup Village police, who then launched the investigation.
"It's absolutely despicable," said Monica Miller of Citizens for a Pro-Life Society, the group that claims to have found the improper dumping.
Hodari scoffed at the notion that the group had found medical waste in his Dumpster in Lathrup Village or any of the garbage receptacles at the five other WomanCare clinics.
Human tissue should be disposed of either by incineration, cremation, cemetery burial or grinding and flushing through a sanitary sewer, according to Robert McCann, spokesman for the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. Anyone who violates the law is subject to a fine of up to $2,500 for each incident and up to $1,000 each day during which the violation occurred.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb...080310/METRO/803100407

reply from: 4given

Hodari is a shady beast.. Here is just some of what you will find on him:
More on him..
Tamia Russell: Abuser's sister arranged fatal abortion
Pregnancy so advanced, one clinic offered prenatal vitamins.
Life Site News reports that 15-year-old Tamiia Russell died January 8, 2004 after a second trimester abortion at Woman Care Clinic in Lanthrup Village, near Detroit. Womancare is a member of the National Abortion Federation.
According to U.S. Newswire, Tamia's abortion had taken place January 7.
Dr. Leigh Hlavaty, who performed the autopsy on Tamia, told a local pro-life activist who contacted LifeSiteNews.com that the girl's death was caused by "uterine infarction with sepsis due to status second trimester abortion." Hlavaty said, "I ruled it normal because these complications are expected with this type of abortion."
Tamiia's "boyfriend" was 24. In Michigan that constitutes statutory rape. The man's sister took Tamia in for the abortion behind her parents' back, in violation of Michigan's parental involvement law.
Tamiia's family told Fox News that they did not even know their daughter was six months pregnant. U.S. Newswire cites Fox, saying the family had only learned of the pregnancy the day before the abortion. The family is blaming the abortionist for Tamia's death. According to Jews for Life, the abortionist was Alberto Hodari. Appallingly, the Michigan medical board has no disciplinary actions listed against Hodari despite his appalling track record.
Entire article:
http://realchoice.0catch.com/l...eaths/bl04trussell.htm
Here is the youtube of Hodari telling students at Wayne State he has "a license to lie".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHorxgzc-vc
Youtube of Hodari's trash- including the remains of ten babies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on_aCpgBsbA

There are many more things on this wicked man and the innocent lives he destroyed and left to rot with waste.
I am hopeful America will wake up to the fact that this happens everyday- and these lives were to be the men and women of tomorrow. It is truly sad.
Justice will come. Hopefully soon.

reply from: 4given

Here is a link to the original thread about Hodari and the children thrown away.
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=3684&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

reply from: sander

Men like him deserve the worse kind of punishment. And yes, his day is coming. He's another one that will spend eternity wishing for a millstone instead of what he will be experiencing.
I have no qualms whatsoever of believing this kind of man along with Tiller have been given over to reprobate minds. There is no other explanation other than a seared conscience.

reply from: 4given

Agreed. And my prayer is that the day draws quickly. The abortionist has a special place in hell. I pray for justice on earth as well.. Is it me, or have we had this conversation about 4 times already! These wicked men and women usually trip up on earth.. I can't imagine how God feels. How devastated Our Lord is over even one of His children!

reply from: sander

No, it's not just you, it seems to be a recuring theme the two of us have.
It's our sense of justice that sparks it, I believe. Which comes from God within us, He is most certainly grieved at the choice some have made to go against all that is right.
But, as Isaiah has said, "woe to those who call evil good and good evil".
I think the day is drawing quickly....reading the signs is becoming easier as they continue to come in quick succession.

reply from: lukesmom

Thank God for these caring people who are at last treating these babies with love, compassion and respect. While there is a special place in hell for abortionists, there is also a special place in heaven for those who respect the innocent.

reply from: sander

How we treat the dead is very important to God. I can't recall the exact scriptures, but the Word speaks of how God honored a mother who cared for the dead bodies of her sons who were slain because of their ill behavior.
(that's probably the worse paraphrasing of all time!)
But, I agree there are special places reserved in both heaven and hell.

reply from: Faramir

Would it be wrong to pray for their conversions or have you guys already condemned them?

reply from: lukesmom

Why, whatever do you mean? Of course praying for conversions is a wonderful thing for anyone to do.

reply from: Faramir

Why, whatever do you mean? Of course praying for conversions is a wonderful thing for anyone to do.
It looks to me like a couple of Christians are anxious to see some abortionists burn in hell. These people are God's children too, and God's will is that not one should perish.
It's a new experience for me to see Christians being ethusiastic about sending someone to Hell. I've never seen that before. And I've never heard of a "reprobate mind" or whatever--as if this type of person has no hope. As long as there is life, there is hope.

reply from: nancyu

One of my sisters miscarried a little boy when she was only about 16 weeks. At that time, (in the early 80's) there was no choice but to bury the little guy.
We had a sad but lovely funeral for him.
Is it really just a case of wanting the child that determines if they receive a burial? Couldn't our tax dollars be spent in showing at least a little common decency if the mother won't?
I'd glady pay out of my taxes for such a thing.
SHAME on this cold hearted, callous people that would throw another human being in the trash.
Christmas Eve last year, one of our cats "Dusty" was hit by a car and killed. My neice called me to tell me that her husband had found it and she asked if I wanted him to take care of it, I told her that he could. I told my 15 year old daughter what happened and she went and got Dusty, put him in a box, and dug a hole in our back yard to bury him. She had to dig through about 1 1/2 feet of frozen ground to do this, but she had that much love for our cat, she wanted to make sure he was buried and not thrown in the dumster.
Isn't it sad, and more than a little sick, that most of our country (not to mention the entire planet) can't summon up that much emotion and respect for a child?
It is definitely, a shame.

reply from: sander

Aww, and on Christmas eve to boot.
Bless your daughter's heart, that is love and compassion at work, no doubt.
It is indeed sad and sick that so many people can't summon up enough care for the very smallest of humans that are thrown away with no more thought than any piece of garbage.
Shame and more shame on them and a pox upon their houses!
I will always reserve my compassion for the babies and those who so much want to protect them and the heck with the abortionists.
I've said that the worst of them have been given over to reprobate minds...and they have according to the Word of God.
Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

reply from: lukesmom

Why, whatever do you mean? Of course praying for conversions is a wonderful thing for anyone to do.
It looks to me like a couple of Christians are anxious to see some abortionists burn in hell. These people are God's children too, and God's will is that not one should perish.
They won't parish if they confess their sin to God and ask His forgiveness and stop killing babies. When they do that they won't be abortionists anymore and won't have to suffer the hell God sends unrepentant sinners to. Are you saying nonrepentant sinners are sitting in heaven with God?

This really isn't worth commenting on as it sounds like you are full of sour grapes.
Sounds like you are defending the unrepentant abortionists. What about the life of the innocent unborn child who has no hope of life because of them? Seems like you have again forgotten you are on a prolife not a proabort board.

reply from: nancyu

This made me think. It seems He had a plan even for those who didn't believe in Him. I don't think he condemned them for "having reprobate mind." There are inconvenient parts of life which could only be done by someone with less of a conscience. But when he gave them over to do these "things which are not convenient" I don't think he meant performing abortions.
How will He judge the abortionists and their willing accomplices? I hope he isn't too easy on them. I won't pray for their forgiveness. Did the aborted child have a chance to ask for mercy? Was that cry heard? I hope God judges them very harshly, and I hope our justice system does the same.

reply from: Faramir

I din't say that and did not imply that.
There is anxiousness about the prospect of these people WHO ARE STILL ALIVE of being damned, and the anxiousness ought to be for their conversion instead.
It sounds like that to you because you desire to believe the worst. The unborn child that dies will also be praying for the soul of the abortionist and its mother, if it goes to Heaven, which I expect it will.
But I don't understand the concept of "the Reprobate Mind." Have you seen anything about that in the Catechism?

reply from: 4given

Romans. 1:21. You have a Bible, right? Do you need to be instructed to do so, or do you actually desire to live according to God's Word?

reply from: Faramir

Thank you Nancy. I didn't know Paul used that word.
But nevertheless, there is not a single soul who is condemned before death, and not a single soul that could not repent.

reply from: Faramir

You were being snide. That's very odd. Very odd indeed from a Christian.
And I have the Church to instruct me about the Bible, thankfully. Or else I too could twist it to serve my desires.

reply from: 4given

So the Scripture serves my desires?! Like what it says about a reprobate mind. You do read.. You didn't read Romans, did you? You need the Church to tell you what to read and interpret? Are you serious? I will and have prayed for you.

reply from: Faramir

So the Scripture serves my desires?! Like what it says about a reprobate mind. You do read.. You didn't read Romans, did you? You need the Church to tell you what to read and interpret? Are you serious? I will and have prayed for you.
Yes I need the Church that Christ gave me to interpret the Scripture that the Church produced. I have no problem with that at all.
That's why you have 39,087 Protestant Churches and we have ONE Catholic Church. Because all you guys make up your own interpretations.
I'm not saying you intend to do evil, but without Church guidance, you're bound to fall into errors and to misinterpreting scripture.

reply from: nancyu

So the Scripture serves my desires?! Like what it says about a reprobate mind. You do read.. You didn't read Romans, did you? You need the Church to tell you what to read and interpret? Are you serious? I will and have prayed for you.
Yes I need the Church that Christ gave me to interpret the Scripture that the Church produced. I have no problem with that at all.
That's why you have 39,087 Protestant Churches and we have ONE Catholic Church. Because all you guys make up your own interpretations.
I'm not saying you intend to do evil, but without Church guidance, you're bound to fall into errors and to misinterpreting scripture.
So you can do no wrong?

reply from: 4given

Solely accountable before God.

reply from: lukesmom

So the Scripture serves my desires?! Like what it says about a reprobate mind. You do read.. You didn't read Romans, did you? You need the Church to tell you what to read and interpret? Are you serious? I will and have prayed for you.
Yes I need the Church that Christ gave me to interpret the Scripture that the Church produced. I have no problem with that at all.
That's why you have 39,087 Protestant Churches and we have ONE Catholic Church. Because all you guys make up your own interpretations.
I'm not saying you intend to do evil, but without Church guidance, you're bound to fall into errors and to misinterpreting scripture.
Soooo you are the only one allowed to interpret the bible; with "church guidance" of course. Nobody but Catholics can accurately interpret? Actually in my experience Catholics know very little about the bible because we were not taught the bible until recent years whereas our protastant friends have studied it for years.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

So the Scripture serves my desires?! Like what it says about a reprobate mind. You do read.. You didn't read Romans, did you? You need the Church to tell you what to read and interpret? Are you serious? I will and have prayed for you.
Yes I need the Church that Christ gave me to interpret the Scripture that the Church produced. I have no problem with that at all.
That's why you have 39,087 Protestant Churches and we have ONE Catholic Church. Because all you guys make up your own interpretations.
I'm not saying you intend to do evil, but without Church guidance, you're bound to fall into errors and to misinterpreting scripture.
Soooo you are the only one allowed to interpret the bible; with "church guidance" of course. Nobody but Catholics can accurately interpret? Actually in my experience Catholics know very little about the bible because we were not taught the bible until recent years whereas our protastant friends have studied it for years.
Ooooh dear. I am going to step outside my bounds and tell you that I am majoring in Theology.
With this in mind, your post is completely wrong, on many levels.
1) Faramir is not allowed to "interpret" the Bible. There is no "interpereting" necessary. The point is already clear, and if things have need to be explained, Church Scholars have already done great research to do so. Catholics follow Church teaching on the Bible because ours is the one with the closest translation to Latin, and it contains all of the books, whereas Protestant books contain 7 fewer books in the OT, and additional passages added to Revelation.
2) Catholic's do not know "little" about the Bible. Basically the entire Mass is taken from Scripture, most directly, the readings and the Consecration Rite. Do not tell me that Catholics do not study the Bible, because you are walking through Scripture with every Mass you attend. Sure we do not memorize large chunks like our Protestant friends, but we also do not individually interpret everything. WE are unified in our beliefs, as CAtholics. And if we are unsure to a meaning, we do not make something up or ignore it, we can find answers very easily, by asking a priest or looking in the Catechism. It is so wonderful to have answers so close to hand, not to mention that they are "Truth".

reply from: Faramir

Only the Catholic Church has the authority to interpret the scriptures.
I'm assuming you're being truthful in your statement that you are a practicing Catholic. If that's the case, you have been going to Mass every Sunday, and every three years you hear read to you over 70% of the scriptures.
Protestants have the Bible but not the sacraments we have, so they have a disproportionate emphasis on the Bible, but that does not mean they know it any better than Catholics, and the fact that they are not Catholics proves it, since the Bible leads to the Church which wrote it.
Our Protestant friends mean well and many are very good Christians, but the fact is that there are thousands of different denominations because each of them has their own spin on the scriptures, while the Catholic Church has one, and can interpret them infallibly.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Only the Catholic Church has the authority to interpret the scriptures.
I'm assuming you're being truthful in your statement that you are a practicing Catholic. If that's the case, you have been going to Mass every Sunday, and every three years you hear read to you over 70% of the scriptures.
Protestants have the Bible but not the sacraments we have, so they have a disproportionate emphasis on the Bible, but that does not mean they know it any better than Catholics, and the fact that they are not Catholics proves it, since the Bible leads to the Church which wrote it.
Our Protestant friends mean well and many are very good Christians, but the fact that there are thousands of different denominations is because each of them has their own spin on the scriptures, while the Catholic Church has one, and can interpret them infallibly.
You read my mind.

reply from: lukesmom

Thank you, It is nice having someone here who is majoring in Theology. I should have worded that better. What I was refering to was memorizing the bible. It always amazes me how much about the bible my Lutheren raised husband has memorized and knows whereas I was taught nothing (at least nothing I remember) about the bible. Thanks for reminding me about scripture every Mass. I do take exception though to the very pointed insinuation made in a previous post that we (as Catholics) are the ONLY authority on the bible and interpretations.

reply from: Faramir

Lukesmom,
I don't mean this to slam protestants, but the Catholic Church is by definition the only authority to interpret scripture.
Any truth that non Catholic Christians derive from the scrpiptures is by virtue of the Catholic Church, since they would not have the Bible without Her.
Any true theology that the non Catholic Christians have is by virtue of the Catholic Church.
I stand by my statement that the Catholic Church is the only authority for inerpreting scriptures, and I suggest you check the Catechism yourself, since I think you doubt me.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Thank you, It is nice having someone here who is majoring in Theology. I should have worded that better. What I was refering to was memorizing the bible. It always amazes me how much about the bible my Lutheren raised husband has memorized and knows whereas I was taught nothing (at least nothing I remember) about the bible. Thanks for reminding me about scripture every Mass. I do take exception though to the very pointed insinuation made in a previous post that we (as Catholics) are the ONLY authority on the bible and interpretations.
I received little Bible knowledge growing up as well, unfortunately some of the Catechesis classes have gone down the tubes. Before decided on my major, I went though alot of "phases" that involved my growth into accepting Catholicism as my true Faith. It involved alot of Soul Searching and Scripture reading. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church cannot force you to read the Bible individually, but it does provide much of it in the Mass. It is the parent's duties to enforce Bible reading, and many parents, including my own, have become stagnant in that task.
As a Catholic, though, you are required to accept Church Dogma as Truth. That includes Catholic Scripture interpretation. He is saying that for you as a Catholic, that is what you believe. Protestants are different in that they pick and choose what they want to believe. There are some Catholics like that.... they are referred to as Cafeteria Catholics, but that is not what Church Doctrine asks for in its members.

reply from: 4given

And you became a Catholic when?
Faramir...

reply from: 4given

Maybe so, but what I read did not have anything at all to do with the culture of death and abortion we are battling here. What exactly is your opinion of abortion and what have you done to fight for the innocent lives mutilated as you discuss theology and catholicism?

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Most of the Catholic Converts I know are better Catholics than a lot of the Cradle Catholics I know. Your question is irrelevent.
Converts convert to Catholicism because they believe in the Truth of it's teachings and the Sacraments. Why else would someone join a religion where Birth Control and Divorce are not allowed? Some Cradle Catholics remain Catholic, not because it is what they Truely believe, but it was what they have "always done"

reply from: Faramir

Me?
If you're asking me, you're asking very personal information that you might use for evil purposes so that you could throttle me when I'm not looking.
But what the heck? You gotta go sometime.
I became a Catholic in 1994, at the tender age of 38.
It was the happiest day of my life, and my only regret is that I did not become one sooner.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Maybe so, but what I read did not have anything at all to do with the culture of death and abortion we are battling here. What exactly is your opinion of abortion and what have you done to fight for the innocent lives mutilated as you discuss theology and catholicism?
I am, and have always been Pro-Life. I am alive thanks to a miracle, as I should not have survived long past birth. I pity those women who do not feel like carrying their child to term, because I have seen the pain in my mother's eyes as she spoke of nearly losing me.
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
Life is a gift from God. The extingushing of life is a mortal sin. Abortion is not, and never will be, an acceptable action, because it involves the extingushing of a living soul.
What I have done to promote pro-life thoughts is irrelevent and too personal for what I wish to reveal on this forum.

reply from: carolemarie

Jesus came to establish a relationship not a religion.

reply from: Faramir

Maybe so, but what I read did not have anything at all to do with the culture of death and abortion we are battling here. What exactly is your opinion of abortion and what have you done to fight for the innocent lives mutilated as you discuss theology and catholicism?
That's quite an unfair question, besides being very nosy.
This thread veered in the direction of theology.
Nobody is obligated to spend every minute of their lives fighting abortion. Talking about God is not to abandon those whom God loves and wants us to fight for. In the end, it's all about God anyway.
Or are there rules in this forum against discussing theology?

reply from: Faramir

Jesus came to establish a relationship not a religion.
I understand your POV and once thought that way myself, but it's not one or the other but both. Our religion IS a relationship, and is the most fulfilling relationship possible, as we see it.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Jesus came to establish a relationship not a religion.
That is not true. If He came to establish a relationship, He would not have left the Apostles behind to spread His word. He came to die, and His death would redeem all Mankind-- IF you follow His word. That Word is preserved and kept through religion, specifically, Christianity, and most specifically, Catholicism.

reply from: nancyu

CaroleMarie goes to the clinics to try to convince women to choose life. She has a wonderful website which has been successful at pulling many women out of prostitution, and convinces them to choose life for their children. This is a good thing, but only in the short run, and only for the ones who choose to do so. The problem I have is that her approach will end up doing enormous harm to women, children and everyone, in the long run.
CaroleMarie has a loud enough voice that she could be a huge help in getting abortion outlawed, but she won't do this for fear that women will be punished. The fact and the truth is that No one can possibly know who will or will not be punished within the justice system. She can preach all she wants that we MUST forgive, but some aren't willing or able to do so.
This does NOT change the fact that abortion MUST be outlawed. Abortion will not stop until it is. Saving 9 out of 10 babies, is still allowing one to die. And that is just too many!

reply from: nancyu

Isn't there a separate thread for the Catholic, Protestant thing?

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

What does this have to do with the current topic of discussion? Or are you just spamming all of the threads with this.? It would just be easier for you to make a new thread if you want to discuss CaroleMarie's opinions. But then again, you already did.
I want abortion to be illegal too, so don't jump on this post.

reply from: lukesmom

Nope never did question Cathollicism as my true faith. I see faith as faith and my religion as my family to grow in that failth. Now through the years my faith has grown and deepened in ways I never expected. I do beieve in church doctrine and am not a "cafeteria catholic" but know what you mean. I also know about new catholics as my dh converted in '05. I don't see new catholics as being better than cradle catholics as a whole. That is an opinion. A lot of converts don't become "good catholics" same as cradle catholics.
Good to have another prolifer here as this is the purpose of this board, not religion. Therefore I am getting back to subject. Thanks

reply from: carolemarie

Jesus came to establish a relationship not a religion.
I understand your POV and once thought that way myself, but it's not one or the other but both. Our religion IS a relationship, and is the most fulfilling relationship possible, as we see it.
Did you use to be protestant?

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Nope never did question Cathollicism as my true faith. I see faith as faith and my religion as my family to grow in that failth. Now through the years my faith has grown and deepened in ways I never expected. I do beieve in church doctrine and am not a "cafeteria catholic" but know what you mean. I also know about new catholics as my dh converted in '05. I don't see new catholics as being better than cradle catholics as a whole. That is an opinion. A lot of converts don't become "good catholics" same as cradle catholics.
Good to have another prolifer here as this is the purpose of this board, not religion. Therefore I am getting back to subject. Thanks
We can get back to topic, but I just wanted to clarify that my soul searching was not in regards to leaving my Faith, but it was my journey from "this is just what I do" to "WOW.... God is SOO good I want to learn more."
I also know what you mean about Converts, I was just saying that most people don't enter Catholicism without really desiring to be a part of the Universal Church and accepting it's teachings.

reply from: lukesmom

Well the original content of this thread was spammed by the religion stuff so, time to get back to the original topic. Right. Thanks for the reminder Nancy.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Oddly enough, the original topic did not happen to involve CaroleMarie, so this new topic is just as much off topic as the religion one.

reply from: 4given

Maybe so, but what I read did not have anything at all to do with the culture of death and abortion we are battling here. What exactly is your opinion of abortion and what have you done to fight for the innocent lives mutilated as you discuss theology and Catholicism?
That's quite an unfair question, besides being very nosy.
How so?
How so? What do you know .. unless prepared for you?
Tool! This is an abortion forum. What have you done for the fight? How many bloodied lives saturated your better half this day? Was your conscience and heart pricked today? Did you think for a moment about the lives lost today as you got to search for yours?
When has that drop of blood shed unjustly by the mutilating hand of an abortionist actually found its way to your heart?

reply from: Faramir

Well the original content of this thread was spammed by the religion stuff so, time to get back to the original topic. Right. Thanks for the reminder Nancy.
It did not get "spammed." It evolved into a religious discussion in which you participated.

reply from: Faramir

But to help get back on track, here is the Fr. Pavone quote that inspired this thread:
"There are still too many of our fellow citizens who don't even acknowledge that the people who will be buried this Saturday are people at all," he explained. "To mourn their deaths publicly, therefore, is not just to honor them, but to sound a wake-up call to our nation that we are living amidst the biggest holocaust of all time."

reply from: nancyu

Well the original content of this thread was spammed by the religion stuff so, time to get back to the original topic. Right. Thanks for the reminder Nancy.
You are welcome.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Here is a relevent Article. I think that the Buriel Mass will be extremely fitting, because it is tangible evidence of the sanctity of these childs' lives.

reply from: 4given

So find your merry way out of here...

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

So find your merry way out of here...
Excuse me? I did not state that I do NOTHING to promote the Pro-life movement. If I did absolutely nothing, it would be hypocritical to my beliefs and morals and I probably would not be here.
What I said was that I did not feel able to post what I do safely. This means that I would reveal PERSONAL INFORMATION. Something I honestly do not intend on doing.
If you have problems with this, tough. But take me at my word when I say that I try to protect the sanctity of life in all of its forms.

reply from: Faramir

So find your merry way out of here...
You have no business being so rude and self-righteous.
You have no business suggesting she leave this forum.
She owes you no explaination about her private life.
You seem to be showing your true colors lately, and it ain't pretty.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

I love how we bring the topic back to the original topic--as asked mind, and then we have our moral character questioned... bringing the topic back off track.
Please make up your minds. I personally would like to know your take on the Mass being said for those innocent children. I cannot fathom the coldness of human character required to dump the bodies into dumpsters.

reply from: 4given

Rude? How so.. I can say as I please.. whether or not my suggestions are accepted or not.. I didn't ask about her private life, although I am sure you might. My colors run like blood from the knife of the aggressor. THIS IS AN ABORTION FORUM! Those that aren't comfortable with discussing the abortion truth need to move on.. or join you on the squish list. And you can find your merry way out as well.

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

We were discussing a Requim Mass being held for these poor children before you so kindly asked me to leave. Please comment about this, ... it IS an ABORTION forum, after all.
In this case, telling me to leave for not sharing what I do to further the pro-life movement is PUNISHING me for not sharing my private life. My reluctance to share should have been evident by the bit of my post that you quoted.

reply from: 4given

Thank God for the Christian burial of these children!

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

Here is a relevent Article. I think that the Buriel Mass will be extremely fitting, because it is tangible evidence of the sanctity of these childs' lives.

reply from: sander

Well, how do you like that...I leave for a few hours and look what happens! lol
Back to the topic, I think it's beyond wonderful that there was a proper funeral for these little souls, who, btw, are all ready in the arms of their Creator.
I'm not Catholic, but so appreciate the Catholic faith/people who will be honoring the lives of these babies. If it were nearby I would love to have attended.
God bless those men and women who saw fit to do this deed.
I know that how we treat these babies, even in their deaths, holds great signifigance to God.
The side topic...the man who is responsible for these deaths, imo, has been given over to a reprobate mind, the Word clearly states this can and does happen.
Is that final...I don't believe so, there is only one sin that is unforgiveable, and God in His mercy has not deemed murder the one.

reply from: spaceman

Rude? How so.. I can say as I please.. whether or not my suggestions are accepted or not.. I didn't ask about her private life, although I am sure you might. My colors run like blood from the knife of the aggressor. THIS IS AN ABORTION FORUM! Those that aren't comfortable with discussing the truth behind the abortion truth need to move on.. or join you on the squish list. And you can find your merry way out as well.
I've never seen so many hateful people who call themselves Christians in one place.

reply from: 4given

We were discussing? Or disgusting.. Whatever your intentions are.. if they serve the same cause, the unborn life, I am fine with you.. I have no interest in your private life, in fact I was curious about what you have done for the unborn. It is okay if you have nothing to share. Who are you voting for? We can start there.. as I recently learned a vote is a qualifying factor in the pro-life movement..

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

We were discussing? Or disgusting.. Whatever your intentions are.. if they serve the same cause, the unborn life, I am fine with you.. I have no interest in your private life, in fact I was curious about what you have done for the unborn. It is okay if you have nothing to share. Who are you voting for? We can start there.. as I recently learned a vote is a qualifying factor in the pro-life movement..
I honestly don't like any of the candidates in this upcoming election. I am mostly conservitive, but I prefer to classify my political viewpoint as "Pro-life", meaning the preservation of Life's sanctity comes primary when I consider candidates. With this in mind, both Hillary and Obama are out. McCain is more appealing, especially as his pro-life track is perfect. I have issues with some of his other stances, but I will be voting McCain if there is no other miracle alternative.
Please understand that I love McCain for his pro-life record, what I dislike are other aspects of his political career. As you said, this is a prolife forum, so I won't go into the semantics of it here.

reply from: 4given

I know.. And I agree. hope the few gave you strength. I am pleased these children were honored. It is so sad that we, as a country allow this! I , for one am blessed to have those fighting beside me on this bloody line between the babes buried today and the slaughtering hand (which includes those fence sitters that hold the tools of destruction up for them..) God help us!

reply from: FideiSpeiCaritatis

We were discussing? Or disgusting.. Whatever your intentions are.. if they serve the same cause, the unborn life, I am fine with you.. I have no interest in your private life, in fact I was curious about what you have done for the unborn. It is okay if you have nothing to share. Who are you voting for? We can start there.. as I recently learned a vote is a qualifying factor in the pro-life movement..
I honestly don't like any of the candidates in this upcoming election. I am mostly conservitive, but I prefer to classify my political viewpoint as "Pro-life", meaning the preservation of Life's sanctity comes primary when I consider candidates. With this in mind, both Hillary and Obama are out. McCain is more appealing, especially as his pro-life track is perfect. I have issues with some of his other stances, but I will be voting McCain if there is no other miracle alternative.
Please understand that I love McCain for his pro-life record, what I dislike are other aspects of his political career. As you said, this is a prolife forum, so I won't go into the semantics of it here.

reply from: sander

I was watching the Chronicles of Narnia...so yeah, I got some strength!
It's is indeed so sad, heart breaking sad, that this country has made the worse "choice" of all...to close their eyes and stop their ears at the death march.
The fence sitters are sickening, if only they knew that stand will make God spew!

reply from: sander

Great post, Sander!
Thank you.

reply from: nancyu

Great post, Sander!
Thank you.
Yes, great post!


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