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Women's Right to Choose

When?

by: JasonFontaine

A women's right to choose begins WELL BEFORE conception.
The notion that it begins only AFTER life is conceived is hilarious and wrong.
Choices are made every day. How can you live with yours when you KNOW it ends the purest form of innocence?
So - what's the difference? A mother is given the right to murder as often as liked in the world. That's a choice nobody should endure...
But, choice begins WELL BEFORE conception....

reply from: sander

Exactly, Jason.
Btw, how was the dance?

reply from: JasonFontaine

Thank you.
The dance went off so very well. The kids were great - all 200 of them! I'll try and post some pictures somewhere and link it up....but it all went very well.
Thanks!

reply from: sander

That's great to hear.
Look forward to seeing pics.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

If I wanna ***** my boyfriend I will. If I get pregnant and need an abortion, I will get one. Consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy.

reply from: AshMarie88

Abortion isn't NEEDED.

reply from: galen

so if you drink and drive and then kill someone its not your fault because you did not consent to the accident?
Life is not alsways fair... you didn't consent to being born female did you?
Mary

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Maybe not in your little world. Would you really want someone like me to reproduce?

reply from: galen

i would never visit the sins of the mother upon a child born to anyone. nor the sins of the father... i mean look at some of the rotten parents that have the best kids.
mary

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Driving intoxicated and killing someone is different from getting an abortion.
How do you know if I was born a girl?

reply from: galen

-------------------
this post implies that you are female.... otherwise YOU would be in no need of an abortion... and a biologicaly male couple can not yet concieve.
mary

reply from: galen

Driving intoxicated and killing someone is different from getting an abortion.
------------------------
Yes it is... both are reckless endevours. Did you know they both used to be legal... now only 1 of them is and hopefully soon will not be.
mary

reply from: sander

-------------------
this post implies that you are female.... otherwise YOU would be in no need of an abortion... and a biologicaly male couple can not yet concieve.
mary
Now wait a minute, you're using logic on a prodeath person.
How does that work?

reply from: galen

it may not work... but sparring against thier self rightous crappola is fun.
mary

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Driving intoxicated and killing someone is different from getting an abortion.
------------------------
Yes it is... both are reckless endevours. Did you know they both used to be legal... now only 1 of them is and hopefully soon will not be.
mary
Maybe you should realize not everyone thinks of a fetus or an embryo the same as you? I don't care if you think it is a person. If I need and abortion I am going to get one. The only person it will affect is me.

reply from: sander

Is that a trick question? Just kidding...
I would want someone like you to care enough about yourself not to lay down with someone who isn't committed to you, nor respects you....and I would want someone like you and others like you not to kill the innocent bystander in your inability to take personal responsibility for your actions.

reply from: galen

and the child.. and the childs father.... don't you realise you do not live in a vaccume... every choice you make affects someone else... only a sociopath thinks otherwise.
mary

reply from: sander

Yep, it's the "self righteous crappola" that spurs the debate on!
"I'll murder my child whether you like it or not"...crappola at it's height!

reply from: sander

Don't forget the grandparents, siblings and society at large.
And some wonder why sociopathic personalities are so prevelant.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Is that a trick question? Just kidding...
I would want someone like you to care enough about yourself not to lay down with someone who isn't committed to you, nor respects you....and I would want someone like you and others like you not to kill the innocent bystander in your inability to take personal responsibility for your actions.
So if I have sex with someone who doesn't care about me, I have no respect for myself?? And they have no respect for me?? Why?
This may come as a surprise to you, but I don't want an abortion. That is what birth control is for.

reply from: galen

coulda fooled me...
Mary

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Again, I do not believe it is a child. I would not have sex with a pro-lifer. Many choices I make do affect others but when a decision is about my body and my life, why should I consider the people around me?

reply from: galen

i'll remember that when someone like you blows themself up with a bomb vest...
Mary

reply from: sander

Didn't anyone tell you that you're too special and your body too precious to give away something so intimate to someone who doesn't respect you enough not to even go there in the first place?
Why would you want someone who hasn't made a total committment to you to touch your body?
Birth control doesn't always work, so I hope you respect yourself enough not to be put in a situation that can have an unwanted outcome.
And birth control does nothing to protect you from most all stds. There's too much at risk to take the chance, both on an emotional level and for your future health.

reply from: sander

Isn't there anyone that cares what happens to you? If my daughter gets a toothache I'm concerned and want to help, it'll bother me til the pain is taken care of.
Having an abortion is an invasive surgery, surely someone would care you were going something like that.
So, we really can't live in a vacuum....no man is an island, no matter how much you want to wish it otherwise.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

"Didn't anyone tell you that you're too special and your body too precious to give away something so intimate to someone who doesn't respect you enough not to even go there in the first place? "
Yes, I grew up in church and I disagree with that. And it doesn't mean the person disrespects me.
"Why would you want someone who hasn't made a total committment to you to touch your body? "
Because I am a dirrty little whore.
"And birth control does nothing to protect you from most all stds. There's too much at risk to take the chance, both on an emotional level and for your future health."
Condoms and Gardasil do. Gonorrhea and Chlamydia are curable.
I would not have sex with someone if I didn't know whether or not they had an STD.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

I am not a terrorist.

reply from: galen

once you have an std--- condoms are great but NOTHING is 100%.. it can scar your tubes and ovaries for life... it can also lead to PID sepsis and death... did you know that you can get MRSA as a sexually transmitted disease...?
Did you know your partner can carry it on his body and show no signs or syptoms?
Are you really that niave?
Mary

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Yes, yes, and no.
I have had sex ed.

reply from: sander

Well, good luck with knowing 100% that the person even knows IF they have an STD and would be willing to admit it if they did.
You're going to need more luck than you can even begin to imagine.

reply from: galen

they don't teach about mrsa in sex ed lovey... so why risk it? You still sound like a spoiled 14 yo trying to piss off her parents.
Mary

reply from: galen

I am not a terrorist.
----------------------------------
really? coulda fooled me.

reply from: 4given

Kayla- You disappoint. I truly believe that you don't feel this way. Have you not learned anything? If pregnancy is the result of consensual sex, you have to address that- Abortion is not an option for you. You have a conscience and it would destroy you. Why would you put yourself in that situation? Your ramblings about not having a pro-life boyfriend.. sigh. I don't believe you have ever spoken to a man that claims support of a woman's right to abortion- as long as his child isn't the one being killed. Why would you want a boy who thinks putting you through that pain- physical and mental- is worth it?

reply from: galen

methylin resistant staph aureas... or in other circles multi resistant staph aureas, ie the flesh eating disease.. ie... what killed a group of athletes this year..
It is an infection that only responds to very specific antibiotics... or none at all. It has become a real problem in the news lately... but has actually been around in hospitals and nursing homes for years. It has also sprung up in high school locker rooms and college dorms... anywhere kids are it is too.
The problem w/ the bug is that there is no way.. short of culturing a person's entire body.. to show if someone is a carrier.. a person who harbors the disease but shows no symptoms.. and if you are the one they infect... watch out... especially if you are female... your infection could spread internally for days before you or anyone else knew you were sick... unlike a male who would notice symptoms much sooner... and seek care much sooner.. ( i do not know too many men that would gladly watch that part of their anatomy rot off... no exageration)
Women who have had this infection internally have pretty much all had to have hysterectomies preformed and sev eral now pee through a cath. through the wall of their bladder as their ureathra was too damaged to save.
it is definately something to watch out for.

reply from: 4given

How frightening! Thank you for the information. I will pass it on... It should be included in sex ed. classes.. I can't even imagine a young person having to be equipped with a Foley..

reply from: galen

that would be bad enough.... this cath goes through the abdomen... kind like a colostomy.
I have seen it in some of the newer health taxtx... but not specifically in sex ed classes.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

I sound like a spoiled 14 year old trying to piss of my parents? How? Why?

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Kayla- You disappoint. I truly believe that you don't feel this way. Have you not learned anything? If pregnancy is the result of consensual sex, you have to address that- Abortion is not an option for you. You have a conscience and it would destroy you. Why would you put yourself in that situation? Your ramblings about not having a pro-life boyfriend.. sigh. I don't believe you have ever spoken to a man that claims support of a woman's right to abortion- as long as his child isn't the one being killed. Why would you want a boy who thinks putting you through that pain- physical and mental- is worth it?
There are consequences for almost everything we do, it doesn't mean we consent to them. I don't know if abortion is the option for me because I have never been in a situation to have to make that decision. You don't know if it is the best option. You don't know if it will destroy me. He has not put me through any pain and he would not.

reply from: galen

Just the way you make statements...' i can do what i want when ever however whatever' etc.
you posture.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

As long as I am not harming another being, I will do what I want when I am 18.

reply from: 4given

By having sex, you consent to the possibility of whatever consequences mat arise- STD's, pregnancy.. You already know this.

You are right. I know it is the worst.
You have not been pregnant with his child yet, right? I was speaking about the idea that he (I assume has stated is pro-abortion) would rather have his child killed by you, then man up to the life he helped to create. Protect him/her. The consequences mostly become your baggage. You understand abortion- many do not. I am bothered by your claims that a human life- in any stage of development is somehow not a person. You know that is ludicrous. It would rob you of far more than 9 months if you were to kill your child. I am curious. Your mother is pro-life because her preacher tells her to be? You stated that. What church does she attend? I have never heard abortion mentioned from the pulpit. What faith is she? You have potential. I don't believe abortion would be an option for you. I don't believe you are that cold.. Who can be really? How does someone become so wicked? Do you have friends that have aborted?

reply from: nancyu

An unborn child IS another being. I thought you lovechoice(to kill a baby) Why are you implying above that you don't want to harm another being, but abortion is good, and you love it?
Do you doubt the fact that an unborn child is a human being? Have you ever seen anyone who was pregnant with a fetus deliver anything other than a child? Have you ever seen or heard of any human being giving birth to a tree, a rock or a puppy?
It IS a human being that is killed in an abortion, you know. How can you "love" this choice (to kill a baby)? Or are you talking about some other choice? The choice to smoke cigarettes? or to not wear your seatbelt if you don't want to. Because if it is, than I am with you. I am pro choice about almost everything, but not pro choice to kill a baby.
Just trying to understand where exactly you stand. Your position is confusing, I'm guessing you just think the whole debate is a joke. Am I right? Do I win a prize?

reply from: galen

nancy-
It seems to me klc does not yet know what she thinks she knows... but that's ok..I still think her immaturaty could end up saving her... her brain will remap itself 2 more times before she is finished growing all the connections she will have at 30... who knows... the more she hangs out here arguing... the more of it sinks in.
How many of us reach 40 look back and see some semblance of the women who raised us?

reply from: yoda

Yep. To her and a lot of other proaborts, this is all just one big laugh-in, one joke right after another. The idea of killing babies just fills them with chuckles.

reply from: teddybearhamster

Yep. To her and a lot of other proaborts, this is all just one big laugh-in, one joke right after another. The idea of killing babies just fills them with chuckles.
what i saw in the pictures was no laughing matter. maybe people need to see those more often. i couldn't deny that truth.

reply from: carolemarie

Again, I do not believe it is a child. I would not have sex with a pro-lifer. Many choices I make do affect others but when a decision is about my body and my life, why should I consider the people around me?
When do you think the fetus becomes a child? 7th months???? 8 months???? And if it isn't a child, what is it? Even if you don't believe it is a person do you believe it is alive?
I am curious as to what you believe...
Carolemarie

reply from: nancyu

Every day I pray
For a way to stop abortion
To me there is no greater evil on earth
Right to choose, right to choose
Right to choose,
Does that child have the
Right to choose
To end the life of its mother
No, no
No
There should be no
Right to choose
Don't you see
It must be
Wrong to choose
To take the life
Of a child

reply from: nancyu

Yep. To her and a lot of other proaborts, this is all just one big laugh-in, one joke right after another. The idea of killing babies just fills them with chuckles.
Sad, but true yoda.

reply from: galen

i noticed kay is not responding again....
she does that .
too bad i really was looking forward to her answering carol.

reply from: sander

George will once wrote: "people only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues."
007 fits that group too.

reply from: faithman

That is why evolutionist fight ID so hard. Funny how it has been ID scientist who made the discoveries that made modern science posible. Kinda cool watching the monkey boyz do the semantical 2 step to get around that one.

reply from: faithman

Again, I do not believe it is a child. I would not have sex with a pro-lifer. Many choices I make do affect others but when a decision is about my body and my life, why should I consider the people around me?
When do you think the fetus becomes a child? 7th months???? 8 months???? And if it isn't a child, what is it? Even if you don't believe it is a person do you believe it is alive?
I am curious as to what you believe...
Carolemarie
You don't really believe it is a child either, other wise you would not advocate their killer moms go free.

reply from: carolemarie

????
Where do you get that notion? If I don't agree with everything you post, then I don't believe that the fetus is a child?

reply from: sander

Yeah, up to three months, that way the spine can snap relatively easy. Don't want any real hard resistance for the abortionist.

reply from: faithman

OOOOPPPPSSSSS!!! A little borty slip there calling the pre-born a child EHHHH?!!!! You mean fetus, or blob, or clump of cells don't you?

reply from: sander

Murderering a child is fine in your book.
Nice.
At least you're honest in holding such a vile view.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

That's why you use protection to prevent it.

reply from: sander

Welcome to the boards.
How about "using" personal responsibility if it isn't prevented?

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

"I want the general public to know what the doctors know- that this is a person, this is a baby. That this is not some kind of blob of tissue."
--Dr. Anthony Levantino
"They [the women] are never allowed to look at the ultrasound because we knew that if they so much as heard the heart beat, they wouldn't want to have an abortion."
-Dr. Randall'Pro-Choice 1990: Skeletons in the Closet" by David Kuperlain and Mark Masters in Oct "New Dimensions" magazine
"Every woman has these same two questions: First, "Is it a baby?" "No" the counselor assures her. "It is a product of conception (or a blood clot, or a piece of tissue). . .How many women would have an abortion, if they told them the truth?"
--Carol Everett, former owner of two clinics and director of four "A Walk Through an Abortion Clinic" by Carol Everett ALL About Issues magazine Aug-Sept 1991, p 117
"We tried to avoid the women seeing them [the fetuses] They always wanted to know the sex, but we lied and said it was too early to tell. It's better for the women to think of the fetus as an 'it'.
--Abortion clinic worker Norma Eidelman quoted in Rachel Weeping p 34

reply from: 4given

Not if that wombman is a homicidal twit- Quite like the ramblings from your twisted tips. A real woman would never sacrifice for a moment a living child - especially her own- in or out of the womb. What kind of person can think of themselves as a true man if they don't stand up with all they have to protect their child? Why 3 months? Why do you believe another human being deserves to die in such a savage a violent way? Have you aborted?What exactly do you know about abortion? Do you have any experience with it?

reply from: 4given

And when your child's beginnings by conception is not prevented, you then kill it? Is that the first option- abortion? Or are other things considered?

reply from: 4given

Sorry Christopher- I am assuming you are aware of the evils of abortion- which must mean you are pro-life.. I wonder how many ppl actually have thought about what they would do if their "protection" failed.. I suppose not too many, being that reckless behaviors often lead to consequences.. and reckless ppl don't think beyond a moment.

reply from: sander

Sadly, very sadly, died in the wool, cold/dead hearted proaborts couldn't care less what the truth is.
They just want to keep murderering a child legal, truth be dam ed.

reply from: 4given

You are right. It makes sense for those in the industry that are motivated by greed.. but to others it has to be justification for what they have done.. motivated by the selfishness and conscience that once existed.. then there are the all to familiar arguments based soley from ignorance.. Who would have thought that a conversation about whether or not mutilating a child within the safety of its mother's womb would be an ongoing - daily thing? Sadness turns to anger and then disgust.. the cylce remains. I am sure you have been discouraged as well.. This all needs to stop.. the pop-ins with their stories of woe and weak justifications as to why it is all okay with them.. Sigh.. It is grievous.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

I'm actually against abortion.
I'm just saying that preventing pregnancy is possible. With that in mind, killing a baby is NEVER justified.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

They're blood thirsty people with an agenda. They claim to uphold a woman's "right to choose", while apposing laws that would stop someone from forcing a woman to abort against her will.

reply from: sander

You are right. It makes sense for those in the industry that are motivated by greed.. but to others it has to be justification for what they have done.. motivated by the selfishness and conscience that once existed.. then there are the all to familiar arguments based soley from ignorance.. Who would have thought that a conversation about whether or not mutilating a child within the safety of its mother's womb would be an ongoing - daily thing? Sadness turns to anger and then disgust.. the cylce remains. I am sure you have been discouraged as well.. This all needs to stop.. the pop-ins with their stories of woe and weak justifications as to why it is all okay with them.. Sigh.. It is grievous.
That's a good way to state it, 4Given. It IS so grievous to think of how many people have lost the idea of being selfless and allowed their consciences to die and think nothing of it.
It's staggering to think people being so self-centered that they think nothing of killing the child that gets in their way, never mind THEY are the ones who brought the child into existence!
Yes, the cyle remains...I join your sigh with my own.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

But pro-aborts don't want to be responsible for their actions. It's much easier to kill their own children than to take responsibility for the life they have created. That's the real motive behind aborting.

reply from: sander

You got that right! It's all about the power and the money, that's their "blood thirsty agenda".

reply from: 4given

Exactly. There are buried posts on this subject.. I also found many things on forced abortions in America.. Realizing that not every wounded woman has been there entirely by choice..
Welcome!

reply from: sander

Personal responsibility flew out the window in January 1973.
We've seen a downward spiral ever since.
Talk about stepping on others to get where you want to go...the proaborts have taken that philosophy to staggering heights.

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

Thanks.
My roommate's ex-girlfreind was recently forced to abort her child by the man she's with now. It was fully formed in the womb too. She's devistated, as you would imagine.

reply from: 4given

I will take it to the Great Physician. I will be praying for her often. How devastating!

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

Oddly enough, it was the anti-abortion laws that once protected the unborn children who would later grow up to be politicians who appose anti-abortion laws.
Irony?

reply from: sander

Oh, how tragic.
How was she forced, if you don't mind me asking?

reply from: ChristopherLaRock

He threatened to throw her out on the street with nowhere to go. And he even threatened her physically near the end.

reply from: sander

Oh my God!
My son and his wife are nearly five months along...I can't imagine anyone killing a child that far along in his or her development.
Shame on that awful ex-boyfriend and abortionist and every proabort who has vowed to keep abortion legal.

reply from: 4given

Amen! Their day will come!

reply from: 4given

So at 20 weeks, she went through with it? Was he threatening her all along? There is so much movement by that time.. I can't imagine. I am surprised the "counselors" (Abortion pushers/dealers) didn't notice how afraid and vulnerable she was.. I suppose that thay are used to that though.. Really sad! Especially considering the children that have been born prematurely within weeks of her baby- and survived..

reply from: sander

The usual proabort double speak.
It's sad, but NOT sad enough to stop murderering children in the womb.
That's what people once said about the nazi death camps and slavery....it's all just so sad.

reply from: 4given

Not sad enough- dead enough- worth enough.. AND WE ARE TALIKNG ABOUT DEFENSELESS HUMAN BEINGS! What is wrong with this? How does one become so callous? I cannot comprehend that reasoning- or the lack there-of. Please help me XT- understand your way of thinking! How did you ever come to decide that women shouild be allowed freely kill their children? I don't understand it. Why and how are you pro(colorful word for murder)choice?

reply from: sander

I've read it...we've heard it ALL before and it still boils down to selfishness, lack of personal responsibility and the stepping on another human being for personal gains.
Blah, blah, blah....

reply from: 4given

Maybe- your ideas of "necessary evil" ( justifiable homicide) are important to you. My question is why. And how is a child 12 weeks in the safety of its mother's womb less worthy of life than you? How exactly is a baby killed at 12 weeks gestation?

reply from: nancyu

Not if that wombman is a homicidal twit- Quite like the ramblings from your twisted tips. A real woman would never sacrifice for a moment a living child - especially her own- in or out of the womb. What kind of person can think of themselves as a true man if they don't stand up with all they have to protect their child? Why 3 months? Why do you believe another human being deserves to die in such a savage a violent way? Have you aborted?What exactly do you know about abortion? Do you have any experience with it?
And if you are talking about U.S. laws, xenatiger, a woman's "rights" extend well beyond a 3 month pregnancy. They can murder that child right up until the moment its belly button passes through the birth canal. Who do you think you are to declare that she only has rights up to 3 months?

reply from: nancyu

I saw a tshirt once that said, "Did you ever notice that everyone who favors abortion has already been born?"
(Oops, I think the devil made me do that! (It said favors, not opposes)

reply from: nancyu

Pro abortion scum. Any reason to outlaw abortion CAN be used as a reason to outlaw abortion. Choosing to kill a baby is wrong. "It wasn't the choice she wanted"??!! It wasn't her choice at all, idiot!

reply from: teddybearhamster

i've done a lot of thinking recently and come to the conclusion that abortion really is no different than what the manson family did to sharon tate.

reply from: sander

Good analogy.
That poor woman was 8 months pregnant, twice the tragedy.

reply from: nancyu

Right, that is, if Manson did that about 50,000,000 times.

reply from: sander

Pro abortion scum. Any reason to outlaw abortion CAN be used as a reason to outlaw abortion. Choosing to kill a baby is wrong. "It wasn't the choice she wanted"??!! It wasn't her choice at all, idiot!
Notice he said it was "sad", but NOT sad enough to stop the slaughter of the unborn.
People thought it was "sad" to see all those trains headed for the death camps, but not so sad as to stop them.
People think it's "sad" what's happening in Darfur, but not "sad" enough to go in there and STOP the madness.

reply from: teddybearhamster

i asked fman about that bill bush signed to protect the unborn(after scott peterson another scum like charlie) and he said that only protects 'wanted' children. that bill needs to be revised to protect every one of them.

reply from: nancyu

But they are ALL wanted.

reply from: teddybearhamster

it's not the right choice. end of story.

reply from: teddybearhamster

that's true. the birthmoms and dad might not but someone does. that's why the law needs to protect them all. i don't see the logic in the law. it protects one group of unborn children and throws another to the wolves.

reply from: faithman

Then you need to ask why CarolMarie would fight any law that would put killer moms in jail just like any other murderer? She has point blank said on this forum that she would fight tooth and nail any Personhood bill that would put future killer moms in jail. One of the reasons is she has killed 3 herself. Manso did no killing himself, but has spent the rest of his life in prison for his part in it.

reply from: nancyu

Then you need to ask why CarolMarie would fight any law that would put killer moms in jail just like any other murderer? She has point blank said on this forum that she would fight tooth and nail any Personhood bill that would put future killer moms in jail. One of the reasons is she has killed 3 herself. Manso did no killing himself, but has spent the rest of his life in prison for his part in it.
What about that CarolMarie? You are lucky that you have the ability to fight tooth and nail, which the unborn do not.
Are you afraid that we extremists might inflict a fraction of the pain that has been inflicted on the aborted children. Have you so little faith in our justice system that you think you would immediately be thrown in jail? Most of us believe in a thing called mercy. But you apparently do not, because you would allow this holocaust to continue.

reply from: faithman

Then you need to ask why CarolMarie would fight any law that would put killer moms in jail just like any other murderer? She has point blank said on this forum that she would fight tooth and nail any Personhood bill that would put future killer moms in jail. One of the reasons is she has killed 3 herself. Manso did no killing himself, but has spent the rest of his life in prison for his part in it.
What about that CarolMarie? You are lucky that you have the ability to fight tooth and nail, which the unborn do not.
Are you afraid that we extremists might inflict a fraction of the pain that has been inflicted on the aborted children. Have you so little faith in our justice system that you think you would immediately be thrown in jail? Most of us believe in a thing called mercy. But you apparently do not, because you would allow this holocaust to continue.
Just what are you trying to say? And to whom? I am for the personhood of the womb child. Once established, the same laws already on the books would govern the preborn that govern the already born. CM said she, and the rest of the killer moms [postabortive] would fight such laws, or any atempt in establishing personhood if it meant future killer moms would go to jail. She is all for abortionist to go to jail, but thinks killer mom should get a free walk. I say they are equally guilty. An abortionist couldn't do the deed if killer mommy dearest didn't stick her feet in the stirups, like CM did 3 times.

reply from: nancyu

Then you need to ask why CarolMarie would fight any law that would put killer moms in jail just like any other murderer? She has point blank said on this forum that she would fight tooth and nail any Personhood bill that would put future killer moms in jail. One of the reasons is she has killed 3 herself. Manso did no killing himself, but has spent the rest of his life in prison for his part in it.
What about that CarolMarie? You are lucky that you have the ability to fight tooth and nail, which the unborn do not.
Are you afraid that we extremists might inflict a fraction of the pain that has been inflicted on the aborted children. Have you so little faith in our justice system that you think you would immediately be thrown in jail? Most of us believe in a thing called mercy. But you apparently do not, because you would allow this holocaust to continue.
Just what are you trying to say? And to whom? I am for the personhood of the womb child. Once established, the same laws already on the books would govern the preborn that govern the already born. CM said she, and the rest of the killer moms [postabortive] would fight such laws, or any atempt in establishing personhood if it meant future killer moms would go to jail. She is all for abortionist to go to jail, but thinks killer mom should get a free walk. I say they are equally guilty. An abortionist couldn't do the deed if killer mommy dearest didn't stick her feet in the stirups, like CM did 3 times.
I think you misunderstood that faithman, I was addressing carolmarie. I am for personhood too.

reply from: nancyu

I got your point after rereading. Yup Mommy should go to jail, too. But I am sure they would get a fair trial. (Unlike baby)

reply from: faithman

Not according to CM. She would fight personhood for the child if it meant killer mom went to jail. She has point blank said so. That can never be considered a pro-life position if you truely care what is best for the child.

reply from: nancyu

Not according to CM. She would fight personhood for the child if it meant killer mom went to jail. She has point blank said so. That can never be considered a pro-life position if you truely care what is best for the child.
Looks like she wants the right to choose (to kill a baby) but refuses to take responsibility for that choice.

reply from: faithman

Not according to CM. She would fight personhood for the child if it meant killer mom went to jail. She has point blank said so. That can never be considered a pro-life position if you truely care what is best for the child.
Looks like she wants the right to choose (to kill a baby) but refuses to take responsibility for that choice.
She claims that she is pro-life as long as only the abortionist goes to jail but killer mom gets a walk. she has point blank promised to fight anything else.

reply from: galen

so CM is this true? or did people misunderstand you?

reply from: faithman

You can bet she is going to ignore your question. She is a totally dishonest person with the hidden aggenda of caring more about the woman who kills than the womb child that was murdered. that is not a pro-life position, no matter how many times the lie is told.

reply from: sander

I'm witness to CM saying what has been posted here. She has said she would fight to keep the child from receiving "personhood" status if that would entail the mother facing criminal charges according to laws all ready on the books.
All I could deduce was, mother first, baby last.
As long as the mother never has to face the responsibility of her actions, she's pro-life.
And if I could ever figure out the seach funciton I'd pull up her posts.

reply from: sander

And she has further said she's for BC, even though it's proven that some BC causes the death of a newly formed human bieng.
It had to do with her doctor telling her that BC doesn't.
So, if banning BC that kills a child is involved she's against that too.
She certainly has the right to hold those beliefs. But, it shouldn't come as a surprise that other prolifers would question those stances.
I view her as partially pro-life. Being 100% prolife involves protecting the baby, first, last and always.
I do admire her efforts at the mills and such, but it still doesn't take away that she's more concerned about the mother.

reply from: Faramir

I think that was a hypothetical situation. She's as prolife as anyone here, but has been run through the wringer by those who want to continually beat her up over her abortions.
There are fringe extremist prolifers who want to take revenge on the woman, but mainstream prolifers with common sense do not want the woman to be punished.

reply from: sander

She has cleary stated that if giving the child in the womb personhood means the mother faces responibility she will fight the one thing that will guarantee the child the "RIGHT TO LIFE".
And surely, you're not referring to me when you say she's continually beat up...I've never mentioned her abortions, not once.
But, thanks for reminding everyone who is reading this...I'm sure CM is appreciative.
NOBODY wants to take revenge, gads you get more daft by the day too.
Is it revenge when someone murders a born person and they are tried and convicted? IS THAT REVENGE OR IS IT JUSTICE?
And if either of you knew one thing about justice, never mind God's justice you might have a leg to stand on.

reply from: faithman

That is exactly the mind set of Planned Parenthood. Mommy dearest is more important than the child. She has also used PP rhetoric to defend her position. things like abortion is not murder because it is legal. She further perverts biblical foregiveness by saying she is not a baby killer because she prayed a little Jesus prayer, and the fact she killed 3 don't matter anymore, even though she used the fact to talk down to others, and give the impression because she has killed she knows better what the issue is about. I say post abortion is no pro-life badge of honor, and I am getting tired of post abortive being paraded around as heroes, while they claim they will fight personhood for the womb child if it means future killers go to jail. Either abortion is murder, or it is not. Either the womb child is equal to the born, or planned parenthood is right and the womb child is a second class citizen, and deserve only the consideration a woman might arbatrarily give. I say the womb child is equal. CM [the killer mom] agrees with PP, and has vowed to fight personhood.

reply from: Faramir

If this were a moderated board you would have been justifiably booted long ago for harrassment.
You're despicable. Lucky for you that you've got some fans who like to watch someone being beaten up by your bullying.
I suppose you are going to call the host of this board, Priests for Life, and a host of other prolifers "killers" for not wanting the woman to be punished.

reply from: faithman

If this were a moderated board you would have been justifiably booted long ago for harrassment.
You're despicable. Lucky for you that you've got some fans who like to watch someone being beaten up by your bullying.
I suppose you are going to call the host of this board, Priests for Life, and a host of other prolifers "killers" for not wanting the woman to be punished.
If any of them had killed womb children, yes I would. Seens how as far as I know they have not, I will say they are just simply wrong. So are you saying the killer mom of the born child should not be punished?

reply from: sander

This stumps them everytime.
They have to do a word dance that makes the reader dizzy.
How can you say the unborn are deserving of life and protection but the mother who kills the unborn gets a pass. And then in the same breath say the mother who kills their born child should face judgment?
Quite the corner they got themselves painted in.

reply from: teddybearhamster

women need to know the facts is what it boils down to. i've read several testimonies of regretful women and a lot of their stories seem to be the same 'i was 15, 16, or 17. everyone said it was right. had i only known and if i could go back i wouldn't do it'. i feel sorry for these women who were so misinformed. they live with that pain of what they did forever. i suspect it is the abortion providers wish to keep them in the dark as they drive home from clinics in their mercedes.

reply from: sander

Bingo!
Good way to state it, Teddybear.

reply from: teddybearhamster

yeah they don't care their stupid car costs way more than the cash they are paying for it.

reply from: sander

Wonder how many babies have to pay with their lives for just one mercedes?

reply from: Faramir

If this were a moderated board you would have been justifiably booted long ago for harrassment.
You're despicable. Lucky for you that you've got some fans who like to watch someone being beaten up by your bullying.
I suppose you are going to call the host of this board, Priests for Life, and a host of other prolifers "killers" for not wanting the woman to be punished.
If any of them had killed womb children, yes I would. Seens how as far as I know they have not, I will say they are just simply wrong. So are you saying the killer mom of the born child should not be punished?
Youl made your point about Carolemarie, and once is enough. It is harrassive to continually rub her nose in something she regrets.
I haven't thought out the punisment angle throughly, and I see the point for it, but it seems to me that since abortion has become so much a part of our culture, it would be unfair to severely punish women off the bat. I'm in favor of that happening years down the line, once a prolife culture has been established.
Meanwhile, what MC3, Priests for Life, and other groups have said makes sense to me. If it were up to me, the woman would get written up, be given some kind of warning, and be set free, and the abortionist would do the time.

reply from: teddybearhamster

i shudder to think. i know plastic surgeons get rich because they do cosmetic procedures not covered by insurance. most insurance doesn't cover abortions. does that mean abortion providers are walking around living like dr. 90210? they should be ashamed.

reply from: galen

i disagree with that Fara.... Once a law is passed there is a certain amount of time before it goes into effect... that is the time to teach people.. after that you are breaking the law period. This isn't a traffic ticket.

reply from: sander

Abortion is generally a cash proposition.
The further along in the pregnacy the higher the cost.
And yes, that means there are abortionist living high off the backs of the babies they just killed and the women that are often wounded.

reply from: galen

well you could do what they do to tiller/ just keep filing suit after suit against him... after a while he will no longer be a fad and people will stop paying for his defense. Then also go after his 'nurses'. From what i understand they have no malpractice coverage in place for them. Heck go after him... when he settles a bunch no insurance company will touch him.

reply from: teddybearhamster

these providers even admit it's taking a life. they're insane and cold.

reply from: sander

Has he had to face any charges yet? I can't keep up with what is happening to that monster.

reply from: sander

Yep, cold son of guns is what I like to call them and insane for good measure!

reply from: sander

Blah, blah, blah...we've heard all your rhetoric ad nauseum.

reply from: teddybearhamster

sounds like that guy needs to pay for what he's done by more than just losing his insurance.

reply from: galen

jo- that is not as an insane idea as you might think. medical waste is notoriously hard to dispose of without leaving a trail.... Eventually some do and will get caught....and my personal belief is that if you kill someone you deserve to take your punishment.
We are not talking a narcotics charge we are talking about taking the life of one who is completely blameless...
This person has not ever had the chance to speak, nor if aborted will they ever.. that makes those involved MORE culpable in my mind.
The only defense i see would be severe psychosis... and that thankfully IS rare.

reply from: sander

If only.
This guy, (I use the term losley), so far, is made out of teflon as he has the backing of a proabort governor.
This monster specializes in late term abortions, can you imagine doing anything more vile? How anyone near him sleeps, never mind him is beyond my understanding.

reply from: teddybearhamster

the abortion providers can't cry crazy though. they know what they are doing.

reply from: carolemarie

I want to see abortion made ilegal. I am prolife. I, like the vast majority of pro-life people am not interested in putting women in jail. I am quite okay with putting those who profit off abortion in jail (the abortionist). When abortion was ilegal (before Roe) women were not proscuted. The abortionist was. Why don't you all call MC a babykiller? Could it be that you don't bully those with more power than you? (like the board owner) and perfer to beat up on a woman instead? Mainstream prolifers have been saying for decades that they are not interested in jailing women. Are they all babykillers too?
I find it suprising that people feel free to call me names, to call me a babykiller just because I don't agree with everything they support. I find it very hateful and mean. But I have chosen to forgive you all for your incredible rudeness and cruelty, because I am a Christian. But I don't have to pretend it isn't hurtful and mean.
I will continue to work to help women and help them chose life, and help those who choose wrongly. I care what happens to them because SO DOES GOD. He thinks they are worth it and so do I.
Blessings,
Carolemarie

reply from: nancyu

Originally posted by: faithman
Originally posted by: Faramir
CM [the killer mom] agrees with PP, and has vowed to fight personhood.
If this were a moderated board you would have been justifiably booted long ago for harrassment.
You're despicable. Lucky for you that you've got some fans who like to watch someone being beaten up by your bullying.
I suppose you are going to call the host of this board, Priests for Life, and a host of other prolifers "killers" for not wanting the woman to be punished.
If any of them had killed womb children, yes I would. Seens how as far as I know they have not, I will say they are just simply wrong. So are you saying the killer mom of the born child should not be punished?
So why do you keep bringing it up, Faramir?
What is it that the killer mom regrets again?? How many?? Tharee?? No wonder she doesn't want there to be punishment for the woman!

reply from: sander

Personally, I think Mark is wrong too on this issue.
And nobody has said that God doesn't care. You like to flash the "God cares and we don't card" entirely too often to be crediable anymore.
God does care about the sinner and He also cares about justice, something you have refused to deal with, but carry on...I gave up on that one a long time ago.

reply from: galen

the way the law is written it is described as termination of a pregnancy... someone who walks up to a pregnant woman and cuts out her child is guilty of termination up to a point. If Psychotic i am willing to lock that person up in a mental institution untill such a point ( if any) they are not longer a danger to society. Mental illness is a defense if severe enough. ( notice i use the word sever ie psychosis is severe ... sadness, anxiety etc are not )

reply from: teddybearhamster

i can't imagine how that monster sleeps. don't all doctors have to take an oath to always be ethical? how is doing this ethical? it's not so therefore these 'doctors' should have their medical licenses revoked and be put away.

reply from: faithman

We are not interested in putting women in jail, but interested in putting murderers in jail no matter the gender. MC3 has not killed 3 womb children as far as we know, so baby killer does not fit. And anybody who can cold bloodedly kills three has very little feelings to hurt, so save the poor me act. You care for those who choose wrongly, but have no mercy, nor justice for those they wrongly killed. No body would have known About your serial killing if you hadn't have opened your big mouth about it. SSSSSSOOOOOOO to be fair, are you also advocating the killers of born children get a free walk? Or do killer moms of the womb child "deserve" some kind of special consideration? What make murder of the womb child different, true pro-lifers want to know.

reply from: sander

i can't imagine how that monster sleeps. don't all doctors have to take an oath to always be ethical? how is doing this ethical? it's not so therefore these 'doctors' should have their medical licenses revoked and be put away.
Well, I certainly wish you were in charge!
They take an oath to "first do no harm".
That's why the baby had to be dehumanized in the first place.
They can't possibly be doing "harm" to a blob.

reply from: teddybearhamster

yeah a blob with a head, hands, feet, and a heart.

reply from: sander

Has any prolifer ever answered that? I'm curious. Maybe I missed the reply?

reply from: galen

Jo- there are definate signs on a womans cervix if she has been forcably dialated...
there are other signs as well... toxicology on fetal tissue etc.
there are other difinative signs when a miscarrige has occured naturally.

reply from: Faramir

It's shameful the way you've been treated and the way some have justified it.
It IS mean and hateful, and I admire you for being able to be so forgiving about it.
If I were you, however, I would complain to the board owner directly, since this is blatant abusiveness and harrassment and has no place in a civil discussion.

reply from: faithman

It's shameful the way you've been treated and the way some have justified it.
It IS mean and hateful, and I admire you for being able to be so forgiving about it.
If I were you, however, I would complain to the board owner directly, since this is blatant abusiveness and harrassment and has no place in a civil discussion.
Then answer the question, To remain consistant, do you advocate that killer moms of born children get a free walk , like killer carole advocates for womb child murderers? Or does killer carole's agreement with planned parenthood that the child is second in consideration the "official" pro-life stance HHHHHHHMMMMMMMM?

reply from: carolemarie

Then you need to ask why CarolMarie would fight any law that would put killer moms in jail just like any other murderer? She has point blank said on this forum that she would fight tooth and nail any Personhood bill that would put future killer moms in jail. One of the reasons is she has killed 3 herself. Manso did no killing himself, but has spent the rest of his life in prison for his part in it.
What about that CarolMarie? You are lucky that you have the ability to fight tooth and nail, which the unborn do not.
Are you afraid that we extremists might inflict a fraction of the pain that has been inflicted on the aborted children. Have you so little faith in our justice system that you think you would immediately be thrown in jail? Most of us believe in a thing called mercy. But you apparently do not, because you would allow this holocaust to continue.
I am for abortion being against the law. I want to see it outlawed. I simply don't agree with outlawing birth control and putting women in jail.

reply from: sander

You're consistent, I'll give you that much.
But, are you for keeping women out of jail who kill their born children?

reply from: faithman

Then you need to ask why CarolMarie would fight any law that would put killer moms in jail just like any other murderer? She has point blank said on this forum that she would fight tooth and nail any Personhood bill that would put future killer moms in jail. One of the reasons is she has killed 3 herself. Manso did no killing himself, but has spent the rest of his life in prison for his part in it.
What about that CarolMarie? You are lucky that you have the ability to fight tooth and nail, which the unborn do not.
Are you afraid that we extremists might inflict a fraction of the pain that has been inflicted on the aborted children. Have you so little faith in our justice system that you think you would immediately be thrown in jail? Most of us believe in a thing called mercy. But you apparently do not, because you would allow this holocaust to continue.
I am for abortion being against the law. I want to see it outlawed. I simply don't agree with outlawing birth control and putting women in jail.
Then you believe that the killer of born children should get a free walk too? Just what should be the penalty for women who murder their children?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

You're consistent, I'll give you that much.
But, are you for keeping women out of jail who kill their born children?
Carolmarie is against putting women in jail? A murderer (man or woman) needs to serve the same sentence for first degree intentional homicide. Preferences should not be given to women who kill their own young children; as if that is some special protected activity. Recently, a man who killed a pregnant woman's unborn child was charged with first degree murder. A woman should receive no lower charge if she does the same; where it's another woman's unborn child, or her own that she kills or has killed using a paid assassin.

reply from: sander

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.

reply from: sander

You're consistent, I'll give you that much.
But, are you for keeping women out of jail who kill their born children?
Carolmarie is against putting women in jail? A murderer (man or woman) needs to serve the same sentence for first degree intentional homicide. Preferences should not be given to women who kill their own young children; as if that is some special protected activity. Recently, a man who killed a pregnant woman's unborn child was charged with first degree murder. A woman should receive no lower charge if she does the same; where it's another woman's unborn child, or her own that she kills or has killed using a paid assassin.
You bet she's FOR keeping women out of jail who kill their unborn children.
She's just partially pro-life, which is sickening in and of itself.
And she's convinced that God is totally un-interested in justice. That one really throws me for a loop, seeing how she claims to be a Christian.

reply from: carolemarie

I am concerned about both the baby and the mother. They are a package deal. And you can't save the baby without reaching the woman. And if they abort anyways I don't stop caring about them and neither does God.
Love comes without strings.
As for birth control- I don't think it should be banned! You will never ever get a bill passed that does that. Same if you are going after women to put them in jail. You will never ever get that passed.
Heck in South Dakota we couldn't get an abortion ban because there was not an exclusion for rape, incest and life of the mother. And that was just making performing an abortion against the law. No birth control ban, no jailing women.
You can end abortion without being an extremist and demanding birth control bans and jail for women. And once again, main stream prolife groups agree with me, so does that make you only partial prolife in their eyes? No. It means you hold a different opinion.

reply from: faithman

o much for her claim the "vast majority" of pro-lifers agree with her. It don't seem like a vast majority do here. But thats just me...

reply from: sander

I am concerned about both the baby and the mother. They are a package deal. And you can't save the baby without reaching the woman. And if they abort anyways I don't stop caring about them and neither does God.
Love comes without strings.
As for birth control- I don't think it should be banned! You will never ever get a bill passed that does that. Same if you are going after women to put them in jail. You will never ever get that passed.
Heck in South Dakota we couldn't get an abortion ban because there was not an exclusion for rape, incest and life of the mother. And that was just making performing an abortion against the law. No birth control ban, no jailing women.
You can end abortion without being an extremist and demanding birth control bans and jail for women. And once again, main stream prolife groups agree with me, so does that make you only partial prolife in their eyes? No. It means you hold a different opinion.
It couldn't possibly make me partially pro-life, because I'm not. It would amount to a lie to say otherwise.
And would you please answer the question, do you think women who kill their born children deserve punishment?

reply from: carolemarie

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .

reply from: faithman

I am concerned about both the baby and the mother. They are a package deal. And you can't save the baby without reaching the woman. And if they abort anyways I don't stop caring about them and neither does God.
Love comes without strings.
As for birth control- I don't think it should be banned! You will never ever get a bill passed that does that. Same if you are going after women to put them in jail. You will never ever get that passed.
Heck in South Dakota we couldn't get an abortion ban because there was not an exclusion for rape, incest and life of the mother. And that was just making performing an abortion against the law. No birth control ban, no jailing women.
You can end abortion without being an extremist and demanding birth control bans and jail for women. And once again, main stream prolife groups agree with me, so does that make you only partial prolife in their eyes? No. It means you hold a different opinion.
With so called pro-lifers like this, the womb children are doomed for decades to come. And notice how killer carole never answered the question. What should be the penalty for murderering your child. Killer moms of the born go to jail. Why do killer moms of the preborn deserve different? Notice who she avoids this questions behind pleese for simpathy, and manipulation with guilt trips, masked in perverted christianity that ignores the justice of God. And that is main stream pro-life? You can have it!!! It is worthless in protecting womb children from serial killers like killer carole.

reply from: sander

They utterly refuse to answer that question
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Thank you. Finally someone with the nerve enough to answer the question.
Which begs yet another question, so why is the mother of the unborn child that is killed any less a murderer of the born child?
And don't say because an eartly law says it's legal, because that makes you kin to being in cahoots with the proabort lobby.
Why would God view either different?

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
NO DOUBLE STANDARD HERE HHUHHHH?!!! So why do serial killers like killer carole deserve a walk?

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Am I getting this right?
Your position is that if you kill a born child you should go to jail. You say abortion should be illegal, but if you do kill an unborn child, the mother should not go to jail.
I would submit to you that God's punishment is death for those who abort their children. I cannot think of a more serious offense than killing one's own child.

reply from: nancyu

It is a fact that there has been quite a bit of brainwashing going on during these past 35+ years. Abortion has (whether we like it or not) gained acceptance among a large part of our population. (I'm not saying it's right, it's just the facts.) If someone is having an abortion today, they can somewhat truthfully say that they didn't know, that what they were doing was wrong.
When abortion is outlawed, women will no longer have that excuse. They will know that it is against the law, and MOST women WON'T do it. Those that do, after it is outlawed, should have to face some serious consequences.

reply from: sander

You got it right, Godslaw.
And good luck with getting her to understand one thing about God's justice.

reply from: teddybearhamster

Originally posted by: nancyu
It is a fact that there has been quite a bit of brainwashing going on during these past 35+ years. Abortion has (whether we like it or not) gained acceptance among a large part of our population. (I'm not saying it's right, it's just the facts.) If someone is having an abortion today, they can somewhat truthfully say that they didn't know, that what they were doing was wrong.
you're right. society has been brainwashed into believing this is acceptable. that has to be undone.

reply from: faithman

EXACTLY!!! But we are told that is not the official stance of the "vast majority" of pro-lifers. If that is true, then it needs to be abandoned by anyone who truely cares about the womb child.

reply from: carolemarie

They utterly refuse to answer that question
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Thank you. Finally someone with the nerve enough to answer the question.
Which begs yet another question, so why is the mother of the unborn child that is killed any less a murderer of the born child?
And don't say because an eartly law says it's legal, because that makes you kin to being in cahoots with the proabort lobby.
Why would God view either different?
God doesn't view either act any different. He calls them both sin. And He has a solution that lets the sinner be free and justice paid. He also prescribes the same punishment to those who have abortions, do drive-by's , who lie, who steal, -death.
And Sandler, I hate to agree with the abortion lobby, but it is not a legally wrong act, which is why people have abortions. Thereforth it isn't the same thing as killing a two year old (on many levels) If it was against the law, it would stop most abortions. Which is why we need to ban abortion, and go after the doctors. ThThat will end abortion. Which is supposedly the goal.

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Thank you. Finally someone with the nerve enough to answer the question.
Which begs yet another question, so why is the mother of the unborn child that is killed any less a murderer of the born child?
And don't say because an eartly law says it's legal, because that makes you kin to being in cahoots with the proabort lobby.
Why would God view either different?
God doesn't view either act any different. He calls them both sin. And He has a solution that lets the sinner be free and justice paid. He also prescribes the same punishment to those who have abortions, do drive-by's , who lie, who steal, -death.
And Sandler, I agree with the abortion lobby, but it is not a legally wrong act, which is why people have abortions. Thereforth it isn't the same thing as killing a two year old (on many levels) If it was against the law, it would stop most abortions. Which is why we need to ban abortion, and go after the doctors. ThThat will end abortion. Which is supposedly the goal.
Hypocracy is way to kind of word for this. It is not just about stopping abortion. It is about establishing personhood for the womb child. now the truth is known. Killer carole agrees with PP. But we are not talking about now. We are talking about when personhood is established. That means that the same laws would govern both the born and the unborn. Other wise the constitution is meaningless, and justice is not equal to all. Killer carole by her own admission would throw equality of the pre-born under the bus to spare serial killers of the womb child jail time. That is not pro-life at all.

reply from: carolemarie

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Am I getting this right?
Your position is that if you kill a born child you should go to jail. You say abortion should be illegal, but if you do kill an unborn child, the mother should not go to jail.
I would submit to you that God's punishment is death for those who abort their children. I cannot think of a more serious offense than killing one's own child.
God's position is that all sin calls for the death of the sinner. Not just abortion.
He finds all sin equally disgusting. We are the ones who think some sin is better than others. We are wrong.
My position is that if you want to outlaw abortion, I am for that. And if any Dr. gets caught performing an abortion then he should be sent to jail. That will stop the supply which will stop the demand. Anyone who is distraught enough to seek out an abortion after it is against the law needs help, not jail.

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Am I getting this right?
Your position is that if you kill a born child you should go to jail. You say abortion should be illegal, but if you do kill an unborn child, the mother should not go to jail.
I would submit to you that God's punishment is death for those who abort their children. I cannot think of a more serious offense than killing one's own child.
God's position is that all sin calls for the death of the sinner. Not just abortion.
He finds all sin equally disgusting. We are the ones who think some sin is better than others. We are wrong.
My position is that if you want to outlaw abortion, I am for that. And if any Dr. gets caught performing an abortion then he should be sent to jail. That will stop the supply which will stop the demand. Anyone who is distraught enough to seek out an abortion after it is against the law needs help, not jail.
Then there is no equal justice for the womb child in killer carole's opinion. there you have it folks. And she claims to be in line with the vast majority of pro-lifers... no wonder the children have died for 35 years!!!

reply from: Faramir

">http://www.priestsforlife.org/...8-jailing-women.htm[/q
I'm with Fr. Pavone, and I think I'm in good company.
Thankfully the prolife movement is for the most part in the hands of those who are level-headed and compassionate.

reply from: sander

If you "hate" to agree with the abortion lobby and the fact that you do should speak VOLUMES!
I don't know why you think God has done away with earthly justice, eternal, yes, earthly NO, a thousand times NO!
With that kind of thinking we should empty the prisons post haste.
Earthly laws do not supercede God's law, please tell me you know better.
It IS the same as killing a born person from any age, in the eyes of God.
Those children are created in His image and He said before we were formed He knew us, before even any members of our bodies were written down.
Do you realize He has written down the members (parts) of our earthly body, He's numbered the hairs on our head?
Please come out of the delusion that an earthly law supercedes God's law. Please.

reply from: carolemarie

Do you willfully not read what I write and chose instead to give it your own spin?
I never said that earthly law supercedes God's law. Not once. I said that abortion and killing a born child are the same things in God's eyes. He calls that sin. I never said God did away with earthly justice.
1. We live under a democracy, not a theocracy. In case you didn't notice our laws don't mirror God's laws.
2. God's laws proscribe stoning women who commit adultry, are you ready to bring that back?
God's laws allow parents to kill disobediant children. Are you wanting to bring that back as well?
It has been proven that man can't keep the law.
We can't keep the law, it brings death to us, so God sent Jesus to pay the price for our transgressions.
Passing a law the outlaws abortion but goes after the doctors doesn't violate justice. It establishes it.

reply from: 4given

Countless women are distraught seeking abortions today- I agree that they need help. I can't imagine picking up the phone to order an abortion- it is beyond my comprehension. I know not every case and women are alike. Anyway- Heroin is illegal. Many a person has become distraught and compulsive when withdrawal sets in.. Do heroin addicts that commit crimes to achieve(pay for) their high deserve to be punished? Don't you think both would be in order? Help and justice? Not to compare an innocent life being violently destroyed to the depth of addiction.. Addiction began as a choice.. Oh and I agree that those that commit abortions should be and probably will be held accountable with much more severity. After all- there would be limited abortions without them..

reply from: faithman

Do you willfully not read what I write and chose instead to give it your own spin?
I never said that earthly law supercedes God's law. Not once. I said that abortion and killing a born child are the same things in God's eyes. He calls that sin. I never said God did away with earthly justice.
1. We live under a democracy, not a theocracy. In case you didn't notice our laws don't mirror God's laws.
2. God's laws proscribe stoning women who commit adultry, are you ready to bring that back?
God's laws allow parents to kill disobediant children. Are you wanting to bring that back as well?
It has been proven that man can't keep the law.
We can't keep the law, it brings death to us, so God sent Jesus to pay the price for our transgressions.
Passing a law the outlaws abortion but goes after the doctors doesn't violate justice. It establishes it.
Your first point is totally wrong, we do not live in a democracy. We live in a constitutional republic, which states that our right come froma creator and can not be revoked. Before you presume to "teach" us, get your facts straight. If you establish a law that goes after one conspirator, and arbatrarily lets the other go free, you have perverted justice. If the vast majority of pro-life is as ignorant of fact, and willingly stupid as you, then the womb children are really in trouble.

reply from: carolemarie

Do you willfully not read what I write and chose instead to give it your own spin?
I never said that earthly law supercedes God's law. Not once. I said that abortion and killing a born child are the same things in God's eyes. He calls that sin. I never said God did away with earthly justice.
1. We live under a democracy, not a theocracy. In case you didn't notice our laws don't mirror God's laws.
2. God's laws proscribe stoning women who commit adultry, are you ready to bring that back?
God's laws allow parents to kill disobediant children. Are you wanting to bring that back as well?
It has been proven that man can't keep the law.
We can't keep the law, it brings death to us, so God sent Jesus to pay the price for our transgressions.
Passing a law the outlaws abortion but goes after the doctors doesn't violate justice. It establishes it.
Your first point is totally wrong, we do not live in a democracy. We live in a constitutional republic, which states that our right come froma creator and can not be revoked. Before you presume to "teach" us, get your facts straight. If you establish a law that goes after one conspirator, and arbatrarily lets the other go free, you have perverted justice. If the vast majority of pro-life is as ignorant of fact, and willingly stupid as you, then the womb children are really in trouble.
You make it incredibly difficult to practice Christian charity. But I have remembered the little peaceful ignore button!

reply from: sander

Do you willfully not read what I write and chose instead to give it your own spin?
I never said that earthly law supercedes God's law. Not once. I said that abortion and killing a born child are the same things in God's eyes. He calls that sin. I never said God did away with earthly justice.
1. We live under a democracy, not a theocracy. In case you didn't notice our laws don't mirror God's laws.
2. God's laws proscribe stoning women who commit adultry, are you ready to bring that back?
God's laws allow parents to kill disobediant children. Are you wanting to bring that back as well?
It has been proven that man can't keep the law.
We can't keep the law, it brings death to us, so God sent Jesus to pay the price for our transgressions.
Passing a law the outlaws abortion but goes after the doctors doesn't violate justice. It establishes it.
Gads, we going around this mulberry bush again????
You did say that you don't want women to receive punishment, right?
Yet if someone kills their unborn child after receiving personhood the mother should face the consequenses because the laws that protect the born will now protect the unborn. But, to avoid the woman having to face the consequences you would rather she get a free pass when no other murderer does. That's a double standard and God is not okay with those, if you don't all ready know.
You've twisted God's Word in new ways, I'll give you that much.
NOBODY says women should be stoned, but they should face the consequenses of their actions in the way modern America has established. Let's keep in this century for the sake of argument and truth, okay?
I'm not talking about the laws in the OT, we don't slaughter sheep anymore either.
I'm talking about reaping what we sow as according to God's Word.
He has established the authorties as according to Romans chapter 13, I know you know this and are willfully ignoring the Word.
So, rather than face the truth you pull out straw men and fallacies galore.
You're only fooling yourself, and if you choose to remain in that ignorance, then there isn't anything I can do about it, but give you the Word had have faith that it will not return void.

reply from: faithman

Do you willfully not read what I write and chose instead to give it your own spin?
I never said that earthly law supercedes God's law. Not once. I said that abortion and killing a born child are the same things in God's eyes. He calls that sin. I never said God did away with earthly justice.
1. We live under a democracy, not a theocracy. In case you didn't notice our laws don't mirror God's laws.
2. God's laws proscribe stoning women who commit adultry, are you ready to bring that back?
God's laws allow parents to kill disobediant children. Are you wanting to bring that back as well?
It has been proven that man can't keep the law.
We can't keep the law, it brings death to us, so God sent Jesus to pay the price for our transgressions.
Passing a law the outlaws abortion but goes after the doctors doesn't violate justice. It establishes it.
Your first point is totally wrong, we do not live in a democracy. We live in a constitutional republic, which states that our right come froma creator and can not be revoked. Before you presume to "teach" us, get your facts straight. If you establish a law that goes after one conspirator, and arbatrarily lets the other go free, you have perverted justice. If the vast majority of pro-life is as ignorant of fact, and willingly stupid as you, then the womb children are really in trouble.
You make it incredibly difficult to practice Christian charity. But I have remembered the little peaceful ignore button!
And you make it hard to remain pro-life, but I do not dare ignore you for the sake of the womb children. You are a lieing murdering thief, and not pro-life at all. You have murdered your own children, you have lied about the form of government we have, and you would steal personhood from the womb child because you want your fellow killers to get the same walk as you have gotten. And now you even mock God and His justice. You are one sick puppy, and need to be avoided like the death scanc plague you are infected with!!!

reply from: Faramir

You and Sander make a great pair, Faithman. I've never seen such hatred, and wouldn't have expected it from fellow prolifers.

reply from: Faramir

You do a lot of speaking on God's behalf, it seems.
Do you ever get calls from the Pope or other religious leaders, considering the in you've got?
Carolemarie is not the only one who would not want the woman punished. MANY prolifers feel the same way, including Fr. Pavone, the owner of this board, and others who don't have a thirst for revenge.
It won't hurt God's feelings if we let the women off, will it?
Ask Him, and then get back to us, please.

reply from: carolemarie

You do a lot of speaking on God's behalf, it seems.
Do you ever get calls from the Pope or other religious leaders, considering the in you've got?
Carolemarie is not the only one who would not want the woman punished. MANY prolifers feel the same way, including Fr. Pavone, the owner of this board, and others who don't have a thirst for revenge.
It won't hurt God's feelings if we let the women off, will it?
Ask Him, and then get back to us, please.
That was too funny! LOL!

reply from: faithman

You do a lot of speaking on God's behalf, it seems.
Do you ever get calls from the Pope or other religious leaders, considering the in you've got?
Carolemarie is not the only one who would not want the woman punished. MANY prolifers feel the same way, including Fr. Pavone, the owner of this board, and others who don't have a thirst for revenge.
It won't hurt God's feelings if we let the women off, will it?
Ask Him, and then get back to us, please.
and many prolifers are just as stupid and wrong as you are. Pravone is a self righteous jerk, and I could really care less what that backwards collar wearing word stacker has to say. People like him are the problem with pro-life, not the answer.

reply from: sander

You do a lot of speaking on God's behalf, it seems.
Do you ever get calls from the Pope or other religious leaders, considering the in you've got?
Carolemarie is not the only one who would not want the woman punished. MANY prolifers feel the same way, including Fr. Pavone, the owner of this board, and others who don't have a thirst for revenge.
It won't hurt God's feelings if we let the women off, will it?
Ask Him, and then get back to us, please.
You two mock and laugh in the very face of God.
And you can keep your Pope...I don't need nor want any other mediator.
I've not been hateful, not called anyone names, not mentioned any sticks being postioned in areas no one has any business mentioning.
I've simply stated the Word of God, it's Him and His Word you two have a problem with.
You two deserve each other.

reply from: sander

There comes a time when it's a good idea to stop casting Pearls before swine.
I thank God for His timely reminder.

reply from: carolemarie

You do a lot of speaking on God's behalf, it seems.
Do you ever get calls from the Pope or other religious leaders, considering the in you've got?
Carolemarie is not the only one who would not want the woman punished. MANY prolifers feel the same way, including Fr. Pavone, the owner of this board, and others who don't have a thirst for revenge.
It won't hurt God's feelings if we let the women off, will it?
Ask Him, and then get back to us, please.
You two mock and laugh in the very face of God.
And you can keep your Pope...I don't need nor want any other mediator.
I've not been hateful, not called anyone names, not mentioned any sticks being postioned in areas no one has any business mentioning.
I've simply stated the Word of God, it's Him and His Word you two have a problem with.
You two deserve each other.
HMMM--you just called me evil, told me I was only partially prolife and have never once stood up against name calling. You look on approvingly while others call me names, pretty abusive and hurtful ones and said nothing.
You state only the part of God's word.
Have I called you evil? Nope. Do I call you names? Nope. I simply disagree with you.

reply from: Faramir

You've supported Faithman's hateful and disgusting comments, so you are a partner in his crimes and are equally hateful.
My mentioning of a "stick" was an expression. Sorry if it was crude, but the meaning of it was to illustrate a very arrogant and self-righteous attitude.
I don't have a problem with you stating the Word of God, but I do have a problem with you applying it as you see fit, and interpreting it as you see fit, and in presenting it in a way that implies that God wants women who abort to be severely punished, and to not want that is to disobey God.
Whether I am one of your "swine" is debatable, but I've been called worse. But to say that you have been "casting pearls" is to give yourself a little too much credit.
You've been doing more casting of stones than anything, and you and f'boy can pat yourselves on the back for beating up Carolemarie once more, while excusing your abusiveness by saying "it's for the babies."

reply from: speck

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"
CM, you are humble and aware and open to your humility.
You know, IMO, what Christianity is truly about. You are what I believe to be in tune with the heart of the law.....
Love and forgiveness above all else.
You sit down with the sick, and open them up to healing, regardless of their faults. You do not judge and hate the same way the scribes and Pharisees did, feeling righteous when they were so far from God they did not even know.
You do not "spit" on those who sinned. You open your heart, the same way Jesus did to/for the sinners.
Though I may not agree with some of your views, your heart is that of true Christianity IMO.

reply from: faithman

...and you totally lack disernment and can't recognize a false teacher when you see one. This so called pro-lifer is willing to throw the womb child under the bus to assure future killers do not come to justice. Her heart is open to a false gospel that makes God every ones love patsy who is totally unenterested in justice for the innocent. No true christian would agree with planned parenthood like she has. No true christian would be so cavalier about haveing murdered three of her own. And no true christian would use the kind of simpathy guilt trip tactics to shut the mouths of true christians and prolifers when she is confronted for her false crap. Christianity is not just based on emotions. God is most assuredly interested in justice. Just what did Christ say about those who do evil to children? I think false christians and pro-lifers who fight against justice for the innocent womb child should get their necks sized for a mill stone.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Am I getting this right?
Your position is that if you kill a born child you should go to jail. You say abortion should be illegal, but if you do kill an unborn child, the mother should not go to jail.
I would submit to you that God's punishment is death for those who abort their children. I cannot think of a more serious offense than killing one's own child.
God's position is that all sin calls for the death of the sinner. Not just abortion.
He finds all sin equally disgusting. We are the ones who think some sin is better than others. We are wrong.
My position is that if you want to outlaw abortion, I am for that. And if any Dr. gets caught performing an abortion then he should be sent to jail. That will stop the supply which will stop the demand. Anyone who is distraught enough to seek out an abortion after it is against the law needs help, not jail.
Jesus discussed some Pharisees behavior. He said they tithed on the mint and cummin that they grew in their garden. They were very diligent to give God His 10%. But Jesus said they were neglecting the "weighter matters of the law".
Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you scribes and Paharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weighter matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."
Jesus said they were suppose to tithe 10%, but he said there were "weighter matters of the law".
What is a "weighter matter of the law"? Killing a child, or not tithing your dime on your dollar tip as a waitress?
You have been dancing all around the subject of the seriousness of killing a child. Your response is to continually minimize.
There are laws that are more important (weighter) than others. Sins are not the same. There are lessor and greater infractions. Punishments vary based on the seriousness of the offense. Killing your own young child is among the most serious of offenses.

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Am I getting this right?
Your position is that if you kill a born child you should go to jail. You say abortion should be illegal, but if you do kill an unborn child, the mother should not go to jail.
I would submit to you that God's punishment is death for those who abort their children. I cannot think of a more serious offense than killing one's own child.
God's position is that all sin calls for the death of the sinner. Not just abortion.
He finds all sin equally disgusting. We are the ones who think some sin is better than others. We are wrong.
My position is that if you want to outlaw abortion, I am for that. And if any Dr. gets caught performing an abortion then he should be sent to jail. That will stop the supply which will stop the demand. Anyone who is distraught enough to seek out an abortion after it is against the law needs help, not jail.
Jesus discussed some Pharisees behavior. He said they tithed on the mint and cummin that they grew in their garden. They were very diligent to give God His 10%. But Jesus said they were neglecting the "weighter matters of the law".
Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you scribes and Paharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weighter matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."
Jesus said they were suppose to tithe 10%, but he said there were "weighter matters of the law".
What is a "weighter matter of the law"? Killing a child, or not tithing your dime on your dollar tip as a waitress?
You have been dancing all around the subject of the seriousness of killing a child. Your response is to continually minimize.
There are laws that are more important (weighter) than others. Sins are not the same. There are lessor and greater infractions. Punishments vary based on the seriousness of the offense. Killing your own young child is among the most serious of offenses.
Couldn't killer scancs find help in jail? Why is killer carole SSSSSOOOOO against jail ministry? Sometimes it is jail that turns a person around. But then killer carole could not seduce victims into her co-depndant "ministry" peronality cult, that is based on women's feelings over the interest of the womb child.

reply from: nancyu

GAG! Who is she to offer forgiveness. We haven't spit on anyone, We are merely pointing out some truth, that she and others like her need to hear. Tricking women into thinking they are going to get a free pass, in order to make abortion illegal, is nearly as evil as abortion itself. Women need to KNOW that abortion is wrong. They need to KNOW, that they can't do it and get away with it! They need to know that they are responsible for their own actions, even though the blame is shared among many.

reply from: faithman

GAG! Who is she to offer forgiveness. We haven't spit on anyone, We are merely pointing out some truth, that she and others like her need to hear. Tricking women into thinking they are going to get a free pass, in order to make abortion illegal, is nearly as evil as abortion itself. Women need to KNOW that abortion is wrong. They need to KNOW, that they can't do it and get away with it! They need to know that they are responsible for their own actions, even though the blame is shared among many.
God forbid that you should promote the interest of the child over the feelings of the woman. Killer carole won't like it.

reply from: yoda

I don't know of anyone on this earth that can speak for God, and it seems rather flippant to even suggest such a thing jokingly. I'm only an agnostic, and I would not even make such a "joke".
Giving anyone a pass for killing, or having someone to kill your baby for you seems very likely to encourage, rather than discourage abortions. And with the modern emergence of human pesticides like RU486, in many cases there will be no doctor involved in the "do-it-yourself" type abortion. If it is made a policy by law (after Roe is reversed) that no woman can be punished for aborting her own child, then such abortions would become the normal way of getting around anti-abortion laws. That would then have the effect of making abortion legal again after it had been outlawed.
Is that what you really want? Be honest now, is it?

reply from: yoda

I think you may have forgotten who speck is, FMan. That one is on the "other side", and is merely stirring the pot so as to make our "feud" worse.

reply from: faithman

I think you may have forgotten who speck is, FMan. That one is on the "other side", and is merely stirring the pot so as to make our "feud" worse.
That is further evidence that this is not an in house "feud", but a house invaded by 5th colum subversives with hidden agendas. Killer carole does not have the interest of the child at heart. She has point blank, and openly admitted that she agrees with the abortion industry that the womb child is second in consideration to killer mom, and killing the womb child is diferent than killing a 2 year old. MC3's views are based on pragmatism, and not principal. He has also been disagreed with by more than just a few. Besides, the wrong views of a "leader" are still wrong.

reply from: galen

I don't know of anyone on this earth that can speak for God, and it seems rather flippant to even suggest such a thing jokingly. I'm only an agnostic, and I would not even make such a "joke".
Giving anyone a pass for killing, or having someone to kill your baby for you seems very likely to encourage, rather than discourage abortions. And with the modern emergence of human pesticides like RU486, in many cases there will be no doctor involved in the "do-it-yourself" type abortion. If it is made a policy by law (after Roe is reversed) that no woman can be punished for aborting her own child, then such abortions would become the normal way of getting around anti-abortion laws. That would then have the effect of making abortion legal again after it had been outlawed.
Is that what you really want? Be honest now, is it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this.

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question.
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Thank you. Finally someone with the nerve enough to answer the question.
Which begs yet another question, so why is the mother of the unborn child that is killed any less a murderer of the born child?
And don't say because an eartly law says it's legal, because that makes you kin to being in cahoots with the proabort lobby.
Why would God view either different?
God doesn't view either act any different. He calls them both sin. And He has a solution that lets the sinner be free and justice paid. He also prescribes the same punishment to those who have abortions, do drive-by's , who lie, who steal, -death.
And Sandler, I hate to agree with the abortion lobby, but it is not a legally wrong act, which is why people have abortions. Thereforth it isn't the same thing as killing a two year old (on many levels) If it was against the law, it would stop most abortions. Which is why we need to ban abortion, and go after the doctors. ThThat will end abortion. Which is supposedly the goal.
Here it is folks!! Now defend this. She agrees with the abortion industry in her own words. and point bank agrees that killing the pre-born is not the same as killing the already born. Anyone who makes these kind of statements should be questioned about truely being pro-life. Stack killing 3 herself on top of that, the double standard of saying killers of born children go to jail, but killers of pre-born get a free walk, and ther is a pretty good bet this killers commitment to the womb child is suspect. SSSSSOOOOOO you defenders of killer carole please explain to the rest of us why she gets a free walk on making statements like these? Not a one of you called them into question when she posted this crap. Come on fartamir. What about your girl now? what excuse will you make?

reply from: galen

There is fiction in the space between
The lines on your page of memories
Write it down but it doesnt mean
Youre not just telling stories
There is fiction in the space between
You and me
There is fiction in the space between
You and reality
You will do and say anything
To make your everyday life
Seem less mundane
There is fiction in the space between
You and me
Theres a science fiction in the space between
You and me
A fabrication of a grand scheme
Where I am the scary monster
I eat the city and as I leave the scene
In my spaceship I am laughing
In your remembrance of your bad dream
Theres no one but you standing
Leave the pity and the blame
For the ones who do not speak
You write the words to get respect and compassion
And for posterity
You write the words and make believe
There is truth in the space between
There is fiction in the space between
You and everybody
Give us all what we need
Give us one more sad sordid story
But in the fiction of the space between
Sometimes a lie is the best thing
Sometimes a lie is the best thing

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Thank you. Finally someone with the nerve enough to answer the question.
Which begs yet another question, so why is the mother of the unborn child that is killed any less a murderer of the born child?
And don't say because an eartly law says it's legal, because that makes you kin to being in cahoots with the proabort lobby.
Why would God view either different?
God doesn't view either act any different. He calls them both sin. And He has a solution that lets the sinner be free and justice paid. He also prescribes the same punishment to those who have abortions, do drive-by's , who lie, who steal, -death.
And Sandler, I hate to agree with the abortion lobby, but it is not a legally wrong act, which is why people have abortions. Thereforth it isn't the same thing as killing a two year old (on many levels) If it was against the law, it would stop most abortions. Which is why we need to ban abortion, and go after the doctors. ThThat will end abortion. Which is supposedly the goal.
Here it is folks!! Now defend this. She agrees with the abortion industry in her own words. and point bank agrees that killing the pre-born is not the same as killing the already born. Anyone who makes these kind of statements should be questioned about truely being pro-life. Stack killing 3 herself on top of that, the double standard of saying killers of born children go to jail, but killers of pre-born get a free walk, and ther is a pretty good bet this killers commitment to the womb child is suspect. SSSSSOOOOOO you defenders of killer carole please explain to the rest of us why she gets a free walk on making statements like these? Not a one of you called them into question when she posted this crap. Come on fartamir. What about your girl now? what excuse will you make?

reply from: yoda

I don't know of anyone on this earth that can speak for God, and it seems rather flippant to even suggest such a thing jokingly. I'm only an agnostic, and I would not even make such a "joke".
Giving anyone a pass for killing, or having someone to kill your baby for you seems very likely to encourage, rather than discourage abortions. And with the modern emergence of human pesticides like RU486, in many cases there will be no doctor involved in the "do-it-yourself" type abortion. If it is made a policy by law (after Roe is reversed) that no woman can be punished for aborting her own child, then such abortions would become the normal way of getting around anti-abortion laws. That would then have the effect of making abortion legal again after it had been outlawed.
Is that what you really want? Be honest now, is it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this.
Thanks, Mary. I'll wager that we won't be seeing an answer to that post anytime soon.......

reply from: galen

see how nicely we agree and disagree with each other...

reply from: faithman

They utterly refuse to answer that question
They must be doing some serious thought twisting to explain that away.
Hypocrites.
If you killl a born child you should go to jail .
Thank you. Finally someone with the nerve enough to answer the question.
Which begs yet another question, so why is the mother of the unborn child that is killed any less a murderer of the born child?
And don't say because an eartly law says it's legal, because that makes you kin to being in cahoots with the proabort lobby.
Why would God view either different?
God doesn't view either act any different. He calls them both sin. And He has a solution that lets the sinner be free and justice paid. He also prescribes the same punishment to those who have abortions, do drive-by's , who lie, who steal, -death.
And Sandler, I hate to agree with the abortion lobby, but it is not a legally wrong act, which is why people have abortions. Thereforth it isn't the same thing as killing a two year old (on many levels) If it was against the law, it would stop most abortions. Which is why we need to ban abortion, and go after the doctors. ThThat will end abortion. Which is supposedly the goal.
Here it is folks!! Now defend this. She agrees with the abortion industry in her own words. and point bank agrees that killing the pre-born is not the same as killing the already born. Anyone who makes these kind of statements should be questioned about truely being pro-life. Stack killing 3 herself on top of that, the double standard of saying killers of born children go to jail, but killers of pre-born get a free walk, and ther is a pretty good bet this killers commitment to the womb child is suspect. SSSSSOOOOOO you defenders of killer carole please explain to the rest of us why she gets a free walk on making statements like these? Not a one of you called them into question when she posted this crap. Come on fartamir. What about your girl now? what excuse will you make?
Where is GratiaPlena . You wanted to get all puffed up about evidence? Here it is!! Now mouth off!!! Come on!!! defend the phony why don't ya!!!!!

reply from: yoda

Yeah.
And I appreciate how you try to pour oil on troubled waters with that song. I just wish I knew what it meant. I'm not too good at reading that sort of thing.

reply from: galen

well music sooths the savage beast.
that particular song is about the fictions we invent in our daily lives, in order to live with ourselves.
Sometimes when people look too closely at 1 thing or another they put their own values on it.. and miss the reality entirely. IE
Some people around here can not stay to the topic of their argument... they are so wrapped up in their fight that they are missing the point.

reply from: GratiaPlena

She's "agreeing" with the abortion industry that abortion is not against the law.

reply from: yoda

Ah, okay....... thanks!

reply from: galen

many feel that about the value of a human life... that is why they have diffrent penalties for diffrent levels of murder. circumstances and value play a part in how some people veiw the world. i don't agree with it... but there it is

reply from: yoda

Was there ever any question about that (in recent decades)? Has anyone denied that?
What most of us are trying to discuss is whether abortion OUGHT to be legal or not, not whether it actually is.
I get irritated when debating with some proaborts, because they will not engage in a debate about the morality of abortion, they keep rushing back to the shelter of the legality of abortion instead. I had hoped not to have that irritation when discussing abortion with prolifers.
So, it shocks me when a prolifer says abortion isn't the "same as" killing a born child, just because of the legal implication.

reply from: sander

I don't know of anyone on this earth that can speak for God, and it seems rather flippant to even suggest such a thing jokingly. I'm only an agnostic, and I would not even make such a "joke".
Giving anyone a pass for killing, or having someone to kill your baby for you seems very likely to encourage, rather than discourage abortions. And with the modern emergence of human pesticides like RU486, in many cases there will be no doctor involved in the "do-it-yourself" type abortion. If it is made a policy by law (after Roe is reversed) that no woman can be punished for aborting her own child, then such abortions would become the normal way of getting around anti-abortion laws. That would then have the effect of making abortion legal again after it had been outlawed.
Is that what you really want? Be honest now, is it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this.
Thanks, Mary. I'll wager that we won't be seeing an answer to that post anytime soon.......
I won't hold my breath waiting, however, it deserves an answer.
Boy, does it ever deserve an answer. Especially in light of all the recent nonsense that has gone here.
This is the kind of question that makes a person put their money where their mouth is and would go a long way in silencing the hysteria over "hurt feelings" and defenders of such.

reply from: yoda

Actually, I think the different penalties are contingent upon the circumstances of the killing and motivations of the killer, not upon the value of the life they take. The law is supposed to consider all innocent life to have equal value.

reply from: GratiaPlena

Then we should attack Carole's stance, not her person.

reply from: yoda

Which is precisely what I do.

reply from: galen

remember the flack i caused when i said BC was a woman's choice.?
i recieved the same level of %$#@... now does anyone here think me less a prolifer?

reply from: GratiaPlena

Right, and I applaud you for that. But there a few people on here who would rather attack her person than her ideas.

reply from: sander

Well, wouldn't that be nice if that was even allowed. Not so by some self appointed arbitraers of the rules of this forum.
The line was drawn somewhere that you either agree with CM or you don't. And if you don't agree...then don't dare post.

reply from: yoda

No, but I still think you are wrong about that. Had you made half a dozen or so statements which seemed to be contrary to the interests of unborn babies, I might think that..... but I probably wouldn't say it.

reply from: faithman

Was there ever any question about that (in recent decades)? Has anyone denied that?
What most of us are trying to discuss is whether abortion OUGHT to be legal or not, not whether it actually is.
I get irritated when debating with some proaborts, because they will not engage in a debate about the morality of abortion, they keep rushing back to the shelter of the legality of abortion instead. I had hoped not to have that irritation when discussing abortion with prolifers.
So, it shocks me when a prolifer says abortion isn't the "same as" killing a born child, just because of the legal implication.
Not just because it is against the law either. GratiaPlena is being dishonest as usual. Please read her whole post. She said on many levels. the implication is more than it just the level of it being legal!!! But GratiaPlena is more in love with her opinion than actually defending babies. I will never let such statements go, particularly from a 5th colum phony that undermines womb child protection inside pro-life itself. If we can't even clean our own house from phonies, we are doomed to failure, and the babies die. Now you can play all the semantical doesy does you like and defend the indefensible if you like. But you do the womb child no favors and you betray them. My loyalty is to the womb child who can't fight for themselves. And I am resolved to fight for them no matter if their enemy wants to call themselves "pro-life".

reply from: Faramir

Are you crazy or what?
She meant that she agrees that abortion is legal.
I think we can ALL agree that abortion is legal. If it weren't, we wouldn't be discussing this.
Besides being a bully, you've grossly distorted her postion, giving yourself another excuse to play god and executioner and call her a "killer."
You're a pathetic little man.

reply from: yoda

Well, here one place where I will have to disagree with you. I think that this "house" belongs to LDI, and cleaning it is their responsibility. They haven't placed any limits on how many proaborts can come here, or how many fake prolifers, for that matter. It's pretty much wide open to all. We can argue with them all day long, but we can't "clean them out". And personally, I find debating a fake prolifer not too much different from debating a proabort, except that they are a bit more irritating. I'd rather fight their lies and their clever innuendos than try to clean them out of here. Someone recently claimed that a particular poster had a "right" to post here without being abused, and I disagreed with that. We don't. And we don't have a right to force the fake prolifers to confess, either.

reply from: faithman

Right, and I applaud you for that. But there a few people on here who would rather attack her person than her ideas.
Because she personally said them, and you would rather defend her than the babies. She has point blank made statements against the womb child, and has actually killed three. Now if that don't send all kinds of red flags up, you are willingly blind. When are you going to start confronting her anti life statements insted of her pro-baby killing feelings? HHHHHHMMMMMMMMM? Oh that right, you seem to agree that feelings are more important than actually defending the womb child from them. Why don't you put your high horse back in it's stall and actually start doing the work of defending womb life insred of those who destroy it by word and deed?!!!!!

reply from: yoda

I'll ask you the same question: was there really any question about that? What is the point in emphasizing something we all know quite well?

reply from: Faramir

I don't know of anyone on this earth that can speak for God, and it seems rather flippant to even suggest such a thing jokingly. I'm only an agnostic, and I would not even make such a "joke".
Giving anyone a pass for killing, or having someone to kill your baby for you seems very likely to encourage, rather than discourage abortions. And with the modern emergence of human pesticides like RU486, in many cases there will be no doctor involved in the "do-it-yourself" type abortion. If it is made a policy by law (after Roe is reversed) that no woman can be punished for aborting her own child, then such abortions would become the normal way of getting around anti-abortion laws. That would then have the effect of making abortion legal again after it had been outlawed.
Is that what you really want? Be honest now, is it?
Hey, your buddies faithman and sander speak for god just about every post, and you have no problem with it.
Besides the fact that you took my comment out of context.
A text without a context is a pretext.
By taking peoples' word out of context you can (and often do) given them different meanings.
And I'm happy that you have a reverence for the God you don't think exists.
Right now, I'm with Fr. Pavone as far as punishment of the women is concerned. I don't think that goes against what God would want either.
No, I am not speaking FOR God. Just using my common sense.

reply from: GratiaPlena

I have defended the babies faithfully before all this started.
Of which she has repented.
If she has made point-blank statements against babies, rebuke them. But that does not mean posting that she is a killer death scanc all over the forum.
I've never had a discussion with her. If I ever so, I will confront any statements that go directly against being pro-life.
Well, I'm not here to please you, so I'm just going to leave it at that. I can say that I have debated proaborts here, and that I do defend womb children. Just because that is not the only thing I do here doesn't mean that's not my first priority.

reply from: Faramir

I'll ask you the same question: was there really any question about that? What is the point in emphasizing something we all know quite well?
You've taken a sentence OUT OF CONTEXT from the entire post and the reason for which the post was made.
I didn't make an obvious statement like that for no reason.

reply from: faithman

Well, here one place where I will have to disagree with you. I think that this "house" belongs to LDI, and cleaning it is their responsibility. They haven't placed any limits on how many proaborts can come here, or how many fake prolifers, for that matter. It's pretty much wide open to all. We can argue with them all day long, but we can't "clean them out". And personally, I find debating a fake prolifer not too much different from debating a proabort, except that they are a bit more irritating. I'd rather fight their lies and their clever innuendos than try to clean them out of here. Someone recently claimed that a particular poster had a "right" to post here without being abused, and I disagreed with that. We don't. And we don't have a right to force the fake prolifers to confess, either.
You totally mis understand, and are putting words in my mouth. By cleaning house, I meaan our own personal house. we do not need to agree with the abortion loby for any reason at any level. I am talking about agreement not censorship, which I have never advocated for. the house must be clensed by agreement. If people say things against womb life then they most not be called pro-life. No where in my post did I say run them out of the forum.

reply from: yoda

I guess you get all your exercise by jumping to conclusions about other people's beliefs, don't you?

reply from: yoda

Do they call you "Mr Dodge" at home?
Or do they have a profane name, like the one you gave me?

reply from: yoda

Okay, that makes more sense. But we can't control what they call themselves, or what others call them. Even a wolf in sheep's clothing may be called a sheep by other sheep, or by the wolves.

reply from: faithman

Okay, that makes more sense. But we can't control what they call themselves, or what others call them. Even a wolf in sheep's clothing may be called a sheep by other sheep, or by the wolves.
True, but they can't stop me from exposing them either. I don't try to cpntrol anybody, nor will I be controlled by anything other than loyalty to the womb child. You present your self as an enemy of the child who can't fight back, then I will fight for them. And they can't control that either, no matter how much they have tried as of late.

reply from: nancyu

I am concerned about both the baby and the mother. They are a package deal. And you can't save the baby without reaching the woman. And if they abort anyways I don't stop caring about them and neither does God.
Love comes without strings.
As for birth control- I don't think it should be banned! You will never ever get a bill passed that does that. Same if you are going after women to put them in jail. You will never ever get that passed.
Heck in South Dakota we couldn't get an abortion ban because there was not an exclusion for rape, incest and life of the mother. And that was just making performing an abortion against the law. No birth control ban, no jailing women.
You can end abortion without being an extremist and demanding birth control bans and jail for women. And once again, main stream prolife groups agree with me, so does that make you only partial prolife in their eyes? No. It means you hold a different opinion.
When we are fighting a war we need to know who our enemy is.
Take a good look at the above post, because this is exactly what our enemy looks like.
The last two days have given me a tiny taste of what is going to happen when abortion is outlawed. (see the "why I pick on CarolMarie" thread) Anyone who tries to enforce an abortion law is going to be attacked by people coming out of the woodwork to defend "the poor woman who is only trying to kill her own child, it is her body, her choice!". The abortion pill is going to be the hardest one to enforce. That is why CM is so against having that one outlawed.
A huge chunk of this "pro life" community is siding with the enemy. To those of us who truly are here to protect and defend the unborn, this fight is far from over.

reply from: nancyu

Well, wouldn't that be nice if that was even allowed. Not so by some self appointed arbitraers of the rules of this forum.
The line was drawn somewhere that you either agree with CM or you don't. And if you don't agree...then don't dare post.
That sounds just about right.

reply from: sander

I am concerned about both the baby and the mother. They are a package deal. And you can't save the baby without reaching the woman. And if they abort anyways I don't stop caring about them and neither does God.
Love comes without strings.
As for birth control- I don't think it should be banned! You will never ever get a bill passed that does that. Same if you are going after women to put them in jail. You will never ever get that passed.
Heck in South Dakota we couldn't get an abortion ban because there was not an exclusion for rape, incest and life of the mother. And that was just making performing an abortion against the law. No birth control ban, no jailing women.
You can end abortion without being an extremist and demanding birth control bans and jail for women. And once again, main stream prolife groups agree with me, so does that make you only partial prolife in their eyes? No. It means you hold a different opinion.
When we are fighting a war we need to know who our enemy is.
Take a good look at the above post, because this is exactly what our enemy looks like.
The last two days have given me a tiny taste of what is going to happen when abortion is outlawed. (see the "why I pick on CarolMarie" thread) Anyone who tries to enforce an abortion law is going to be attacked by people coming out of the woodwork to defend "the poor woman who is only trying to kill her own child, it is her body, her choice!". The abortion pill is going to be the hardest one to enforce. That is why CM is so against having that one outlawed.
A huge chunk of this "pro life" community is siding with the enemy. To those of us who truly are here to protect and defend the unborn, this fight is far from over.
You got that right!
The fight is far from over and it's so sad because the above stated positions are coddeled by some in the prolife community on this board and elsewhere. You are demeaned and ridiculed to heights that are staggering if you dare disagree.
The child in the womb has been thrown under the bus in the meantime.
This battle could of and should have been won long ago, but as long as we have those with divided minds it will rage on.
Some are so worried about the feelings of others (the mothers included) that the baby has been replaced with protection of said feelings. What????
How did that happen?
I

reply from: GratiaPlena

It's fine to disagree. There is nothing wrong with that. It's calling her a killer death scanc (?) and posting on every thread about how she's not really pro-life that bothers us.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I disagree with carolmarie's positions. Faithman has always been extreme when he disagrees. There does seem to be some "piling on", to use a football term. Of course, the degree of carolmarie's error is pretty extreme.

reply from: sander

Maybe you missed my first reply:
Well, wouldn't that be nice if that was even allowed. Not so by some self appointed arbitraers of the rules of this forum.
The line was drawn somewhere that you either agree with CM or you don't. And if you don't agree...then don't dare post.
You are aware that those who don't use the above mentioned descriptions were attacked as well, aren't you?
I hope you're reserving some of your "bother" for those who attack those who are respectfully disagreeing with CM's views.

reply from: faithman

Then you are just going to have to be bothered. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. She very rarely defends preborn life, and is only in it foe killer mom. When one kills three, they are killers. And when one agrees with baby killers on any level, they are the enemy of the womb child. If you are just to willingly blind to see that, it is on you. But it proves that womb children are not your number one consideration either. "Women's feelings" are second place to the children that are being slaughtered. They are killers who deserve the same treatment as any other killer. Killer carole has point blank stateed that the killers of the born deserve jail, while the killers of the womb child deserve a free walk. If you can not see the obvious double standard, and the obvious conflick of interests coming from one who has killed three, then you are truely blind, and absolutely worthless in the cause of life.

reply from: GratiaPlena

I encourage you to look at her thread about sidewalk conseling. Nine babies were saved because she and some others were there
Yes, unborn children are my number one consideration. Like I said, I would be happy to engage in debate with Carole on something I disagree with. But I'm not going to post all over the boards about how she is a killer death mom *****.
I completely agree.
If she has stated that, than she doesn't see them as equal, I agree. But my point is we need to attack her ideas and not her person.
*shrug* As I said before, I'm not here to please you, not in the least. I know I've done my share of defending unborn life.

reply from: faithman

I encourage you to look at her thread about sidewalk conseling. Nine babies were saved because she and some others were there
Yes, unborn children are my number one consideration. Like I said, I would be happy to engage in debate with Carole on something I disagree with. But I'm not going to post all over the boards about how she is a killer death mom *****.
I completely agree.
If she has stated that, than she doesn't see them as equal, I agree. But my point is we need to attack her ideas and not her person.
*shrug* As I said before, I'm not here to please you, not in the least. I know I've done my share of defending unborn life.
The saving of babies is a by product, not the priority with her. She would throw them under the post abortive bus in a heart beat. And you and the rest like you could be the example of what you are saying. You don't have a singlr problem in attacking me personally insted of just my ideas. You do not live up to your own standards that you try to place on me. And thru all of this, not a one of you has confronted her over these issues at all. You give her the free walk she has asked for. the issue is estabishing personhood, which will stop abortion. that she has avowed to fight, not just disagree with. Stopping abortion is the by product of establishing personhood. Stopping abortion is not the number one goal, as it can be mis constrewed into a semantical mish mash that assures the continuation of the slaughter. Establishing personhood does stop abortion. That is the goal. That is something Killer carole knows full well as the most effective material out there, by her own words, is the I AM A PERSON cards that we produce. [check out the IAAP thred, the post is there]. The credit goes more to the card than someone who blatantly opposes the message of the card.

reply from: GratiaPlena

When have I attacked you personally?
Next time she brings that up, I'll be sure to address it.
Wow. I'd never thought of it that way before.

reply from: nancyu

I encourage you to look at her thread about sidewalk conseling. Nine babies were saved because she and some others were there
Originally posted by: nancyu
14 babies were left to die.
Originally posted by: sheri
Thankyou for posting that CM! it is inspiring to hear what other people are doing to help save the babies.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, that's one I left out of the "list" of things I disagree with her about.
She did say that if abortion were outlawed, those who had "do-it-yourself" abortion would "not be punished". I find that highly offensive.

reply from: sander

Yeah, that's one I left out of the "list" of things I disagree with her about.
She did say that if abortion were outlawed, those who had "do-it-yourself" abortion would "not be punished". I find that highly offensive.
Not getting personal about CM, but I find that just as offensive as those who call themselves pro-life while making excpetions for rape and incest.
Either the baby is the MOST important issue or the baby isn't.
There's no squishy middle that protects all the babies all the time.

reply from: faithman

Yeah, that's one I left out of the "list" of things I disagree with her about.
She did say that if abortion were outlawed, those who had "do-it-yourself" abortion would "not be punished". I find that highly offensive.
Not getting personal about CM, but I find that just as offensive as those who call themselves pro-life while making excpetions for rape and incest.
Either the baby is the MOST important issue or the baby isn't.
There's no squishy middle that protects all the babies all the time.
That is why establishing personhood is the issue, not stopping abortion. Establish personhood and al froms of child slaughter stops, or is illegal anyway. "stoping abortion" leaves us way to open for all this stupid semantics that we see comming from the likes of killer carole. Ain't it funny that she promises to fight [not just disagree with] personhood? And we are not to call into question the motives and charactor, of folks who make such statements?!!!!

reply from: nancyu

Don't you think the killer death scanc can defend herself? If she's really pro life, she shouldn't have a problem.

reply from: Faramir

Yeah, that's one I left out of the "list" of things I disagree with her about.
She did say that if abortion were outlawed, those who had "do-it-yourself" abortion would "not be punished". I find that highly offensive.
Could you provide her comment about this in context?
How do you punish someone if you don't know they did it? Isn't that what a do-it-yourself abortion would be for?

reply from: Faramir

Don't you think the killer death scanc can defend herself? If she's really pro life, she shouldn't have a problem.
It's not a good idea to stand by and watch an assault, is it?
So that's why we have to remind bullies like you and faithman when you are out of line.
Maybe with enough reminders, you might one day think about common human decency.

reply from: nancyu

Yeah, that's one I left out of the "list" of things I disagree with her about.
She did say that if abortion were outlawed, those who had "do-it-yourself" abortion would "not be punished". I find that highly offensive.
Could you provide her comment about this in context?
How do you punish someone if you don't know they did it? Isn't that what a do-it-yourself abortion would be for?
Whose comment?

reply from: Faramir

You were referring to CM and Yoda quoted you and referred to her as well.
Do you have her comment in-context about punishment and "do it yourself" abortion?
It's important to me to see it in context, because much mischief can be done by taking snippets of what someone said out of the context of the etire post, and the context of the discussion.

reply from: nancyu

No, I can't seem to find it, you'll have to look for it yourself.

reply from: galen

back on topic... i was thinking about this last pm.
The only thing we don't get to choose is weather we are born male or female.
from that point on our lives are a series of choices... some good , some bad, some more one than another. every single choice we make though, affects someone else in this world, and even people yet to come or people yet to be born.
Its kinda neat.

reply from: sander

I wished everyone felt the way you do.
Abortionists and the women who use their services sure haven't cought on.

reply from: carolemarie

I encourage you to look at her thread about sidewalk conseling. Nine babies were saved because she and some others were there
Yes, unborn children are my number one consideration. Like I said, I would be happy to engage in debate with Carole on something I disagree with. But I'm not going to post all over the boards about how she is a killer death mom *****.
I completely agree.
If she has stated that, than she doesn't see them as equal, I agree. But my point is we need to attack her ideas and not her person.
*shrug* As I said before, I'm not here to please you, not in the least. I know I've done my share of defending unborn life.
This article was about a sidewalk counseling group in Connecticut. I wasn't there. Would have been a good day to be there though!!!

reply from: nancyu

I am concerned about both the baby and the mother. They are a package deal. And you can't save the baby without reaching the woman. And if they abort anyways I don't stop caring about them and neither does God.
Love comes without strings.
As for birth control- I don't think it should be banned! You will never ever get a bill passed that does that. Same if you are going after women to put them in jail. You will never ever get that passed.
Heck in South Dakota we couldn't get an abortion ban because there was not an exclusion for rape, incest and life of the mother. And that was just making performing an abortion against the law. No birth control ban, no jailing women.
You can end abortion without being an extremist and demanding birth control bans and jail for women. And once again, main stream prolife groups agree with me, so does that make you only partial prolife in their eyes? No. It means you hold a different opinion.
When we are fighting a war we need to know who our enemy is.
Take a good look at the above post, because this is exactly what our enemy looks like.
The last two days have given me a tiny taste of what is going to happen when abortion is outlawed. (see the "why I pick on CarolMarie" thread) Anyone who tries to enforce an abortion law is going to be attacked by people coming out of the woodwork to defend "the poor woman who is only trying to kill her own child, it is her body, her choice!". The abortion pill is going to be the hardest one to enforce. That is why CM is so against having that one outlawed.
A huge chunk of this "pro life" community is siding with the enemy. To those of us who truly are here to protect and defend the unborn, this fight is far from over.
You got that right!
The fight is far from over and it's so sad because the above stated positions are coddeled by some in the prolife community on this board and elsewhere. You are demeaned and ridiculed to heights that are staggering if you dare disagree.
The child in the womb has been thrown under the bus in the meantime.
This battle could of and should have been won long ago, but as long as we have those with divided minds it will rage on.
Some are so worried about the feelings of others (the mothers included) that the baby has been replaced with protection of said feelings. What????
How did that happen?
I

reply from: cracrat

The opposite of this is mind control and the thought police. Dead babies or not, that's no society to live in. It would crush the human spirit and make life unbearable. I'd abort my own children out of mercy for them.

reply from: yoda

I agree. Their priorities are on the adults, not the children.

reply from: yoda

As I recall, it was during a discussion of why she didn't think women should be punished for having abortions after they become illegal.
That is irrelevant. The question was about whether punishment for a self administered illegal abortion was the right thing to do. Is it?

reply from: yoda

Is that your motive, really? Whatever your motive is, the actual effect you are having is to distract us and prevent any discussion of abortion itself. And you have absolutely no effect on those you are attacking.

reply from: yoda

Well, not exactly...... we don't get to choose our parents, we don't get to choose our hair color, eye color, genetic inheritance in general, place of birth, etc., etc.....

reply from: yoda

And now we see why you are not "prolife".

reply from: joe

I am the righteous Faramir! Listen to me while I defend those being assaulted for supporting false doctrine while I ignore the innocent being ripped apart.
You Faramir are the perfect example why we Christians cannot stop abortion...to busy worrying about the feelings of the guilty while we wash the blood of the innocent to hide their crime.

reply from: cracrat

And now we see why you are not "prolife".
There you go taking comments out of context again.

reply from: yoda

Once again, you prove my point. To a prolifer, there is NO context in which an elective abortion is justifiable...... NONE!

reply from: cracrat

Once again, you prove my point. To a prolifer, there is NO context in which an elective abortion is justifiable...... NONE!
Could you really, in conscience, bring a child in to this world if you knew from personal experience its life would be unbearable? Would you hold it against a prisoner at Auchswitz if they aborted their child?

reply from: yoda

I could NOT, in good conscience....... EVER ELECTIVELY KILL AN INNOCENT CHILD!
NO ONE has the moral right to electively kill an unborn child, no matter how bad their circumstances. Did the prisoners at Auchswitz know what tomorrow would bring, for sure? Did they know when Germany would lose the war? Did they know which prisoners would live, and which would die?

reply from: sheri

If the prisner at the concentration camp were to do that then they would become what they hate, they would have been converted by the nazis.
We should try to help our fellow humans not kill them off in the name of mercy. That will only lead to more killing.

reply from: cracrat

I could NOT, in good conscience....... EVER ELECTIVELY KILL AN INNOCENT CHILD!
NO ONE has the moral right to electively kill an unborn child, no matter how bad their circumstances. Did the prisoners at Auchswitz know what tomorrow would bring, for sure? Did they know when Germany would lose the war? Did they know which prisoners would live, and which would die?
No.
No.
No.
Because of the uncertainty as to their immediate or long-term future, bringing a child into the world would have been incredibly cruel. It would be a gamble of appalling consequence. Sure the abortion has a definate outcome, but IMO some gambles are not to be taken.
Would you hold it against someone in such a situation if they aborted their child?

reply from: yoda

That is not for YOU to decide. That life belongs to the child, not to YOU.
Absolutely. Electively killing babies is wrong, in every situation.
This conversation makes me extremely glad you don't claim to be prolife.

reply from: cracrat

That is not for YOU to decide. That life belongs to the child, not to YOU.
Absolutely. Electively killing babies is wrong, in every situation.
This conversation makes me extremely glad you don't claim to be prolife.
Glad I can bring a little sunshine to your day.
There are situations where decisions must be made on behalf of others. Sometimes those decisions are of little consequence, such as what Mrs. Yoda is going to make you for supper tonight. Sometimes those decisions have the gravest consequence, such as when the family decide to turn off the machines keeping their vegetable son alive.
Understanding when those decisions must be made and having the courage to make them can be an act of love and compassion most of us will, thankfully, never have experience of. Fanatically hiding behind a screen of moral indignance can be damaging to more than just yourself and have consequences no sane person would ever wish upon another.

reply from: yoda

I've often heard other proaborts say that ALL abortion is "an act of kindness", so you're just repeating their mantra, in a slightly different form.

reply from: cracrat

I've often heard other proaborts say that ALL abortion is "an act of kindness", so you're just repeating their mantra, in a slightly different form.
Except that I think a lot of abortion is bourne of fear, ignorance, laziness or a combination of the above. I doubt that more than a few people in the world could genuinely describe their abortion as an act of kindness.

reply from: galen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Tp0Dajbdg

reply from: Gingerbreadman

spammer. i'm reporting every post that isn't explained or relevant.

reply from: Banned Member

I want one, however. I want thousands. I want millions.
I want an entire nation of abortion-having people. After all, that's God's only wish for us all.

reply from: AshMarie88

These idiots need jobs!

reply from: Gingerbreadman

so do you.
or plastic surgery

reply from: sander

I told them their village was looking for them. L. Ron is worried.

reply from: galen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPamlX4HQ0

reply from: galen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPamlX4HQ0


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