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Personhood or bust

Ain't it about time the games stop?

by: faithman

It is about the personhood of the womb child. Once established, all this craziness goes away. So pro-personhood folks just need to ingnore prochoice/prolife and keep the focus on personhood for the womb child. Anything else is a distraction, and ultimatly deadly to our preborn brothers and sisters. They are who we fight for, and there is where our loyalty belongs, not to a "movement" that has sold them out, and cares more about looking good, than saving BABIES lives. This is 1st last and always about the child in the womb. This is not about all the neo-prolifers that have personal aggendas, who have even point blank said on this forum that they would fight presonhood tooth and nail just to keep future killers out of Jail. Pro-personhood folks need to quit being bogged down in emotionalism, and realize the guilty should be prosicuted. That no new laws will have to be legislated when personhood for the womb child is established. The ones already there will work just fine, and a jury of 12 citizens have the final say. Pro-personhood people need to elect state legislators that will establish personhood at the state level, then let them graduate to the federal level to get the job done there as well. WE THE PEOPLE need to speak loud and often. It is time we quit asking, and demand action on behalf of children in the womb. Or we can continue to play stupid little semantical games and watch the children die another 3 plus decades.

reply from: NewMom

I'm on board. I was in the 2nd trimester when I delivered my son... 23 weeks and 2 days. And I held him. It was my little boy. Can anyone argue with the fact that it wasn't a boy, a son, a baby? I challenge any and all to refute it. We were all children in the womb once. We are people. They are little people!

reply from: sander

Bless your heart.
We all need to join Faithman and you in this quest to see that the child receives his or her rightful title of PERSON!

reply from: faithman

When we frame the issue properly, we win everytime. We don't need to oppose abortion so much, as we simple need to establish personhood for the womb child. Once personhood is established, abortion goes away. It also puts a positive spin on the issue, and gives many a place to get involved, where as they will not get involved with "anti-abortion". "pro-life" has been too clutered up with side issues, and personal aggendas to ever be effective in bringing about change. "Pro-personhood" keeps the focus on the womb child, and simply states the solution to the problem. And no literature in curent use makes that statement clearer than the "I AM A PERSON" cards. It lets the womb child image speak a thousand words in a beautiful evidence of the miracle of life.

reply from: joe

Agreed faithman. This objective is simple and restores the truth that is self evident.

reply from: Teresa18

Faithman, may I suggest the possibility of putting information about establishing personhood through the Life at Conception Act in individual states and federally.

reply from: faithman

Maybe we should study the different ones being used, and get them to our state representatives, or pro-personhood lawyers, to introduce it at the state level. I have a lawyer freind, maybe I can get a template made up, and we can scatter them out thru the pro-personhood network. May send a copy to every legislator thru out the country that may be open to pro-personhood. If we get a copy of something like that with an IAAP card image copied to it as a letter head, we may have a very powerful weapon to let politicians know exactly what we want. What do yall think?

reply from: faithman

109th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 552
To implement equal protection under the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution for the right to life of each born and preborn human person.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 2, 2005
Mr. HUNTER (for himself, Mr. SHIMKUS, Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. TIAHRT, Mr. WICKER, Mr. SMITH of New Jersey, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. TANCREDO, Mr. WHITFIELD, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. GARRETT of New Jersey, Mr. AKIN, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. RENZI, Mrs. JO ANN DAVIS of Virginia, Mr. RYUN of Kansas, Mr. KING of Iowa, Mr. MCCOTTER, Mr. PEARCE, Mr. NEY, Mr. JOHNSON of Illinois, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. GINGREY, Mr. LEWIS of Kentucky, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. WAMP, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mr. PITTS, Ms. FOXX, Mr. CHABOT, Mr. HOEKSTRA, Mr. HOSTETTLER, Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin, Mr. GARY G. MILLER of California, and Mr. LAHOOD) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A BILL
To implement equal protection under the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution for the right to life of each born and preborn human person.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the
Right to Life Act'.
SEC. 2. RIGHT TO LIFE.
To implement equal protection for the right to life of each born and preborn human person, and pursuant to the duty and authority of the Congress, including Congress' power under article I, section 8, to make necessary and proper laws, and Congress' power under section 5 of the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Congress hereby declares that the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human being.
SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.
For purposes of this Act:
(1) HUMAN PERSON; HUMAN BEING- The terms
human person' and
human being' include each and every member of the species homo sapiens at all stages of life, including, but not limited to, the moment of fertilization, cloning, or other moment at which an individual member of the human species comes into being.
(2) STATE- The term
State' used in the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States and other applicable provisions of the Constitution includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and each other territory or possession of the United States.

reply from: faithman

Here is a site on how Montana is running their PERSONHOOD AMENDMENT effort.
http://www.life2008.org/

reply from: faithman

Here is a site with Georgias bill http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2007_08/fulltext/hb1358.htm

reply from: faithman

This is what Colorado is doing http://www.coloradoforequalrights.com/

reply from: faithman

Here is what Mississippi is doing http://www.initiative23.com/

reply from: faithman

FOCA is the biggest threat to personhood, and is why Hilary or obama must never get into the white house.http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/assets/files/Abortion-Access-to-Abortion-FOCA.pdf

reply from: yoda

Exactly. No new laws, no new committees, nothing but enforcing the same old laws we've got now.
It's really simple, and maybe that's why some folks don't like it?

reply from: faithman

Exactly. No new laws, no new committees, nothing but enforcing the same old laws we've got now.
It's really simple, and maybe that's why some folks don't like it?
Too many aggendas my friend, too many damnedable aggendas.

reply from: faithman

ATTENTION all pro-personhood folks. Please use the info on This site to put legislation together to introduce to your state houses. We need a ground swell of grass roots demand for the establishing of personhood for the womb child. The snow ball is growing, lets hope the avalanch comes soon.

reply from: faithman

LC 21 9910S
- 1 -
______________________________________________________ offers the following
substitute to SB 16:
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
AN ACT
1 To amend the Official Code of Georgia Annotated so as to provide that prenatal murder shall
2 be unlawful in all events and to remove numerous references to such procedures; to amend
3 Title 16, relating to crimes and offenses, so as to make certain findings of fact; to define
4 certain terms; to provide that any prenatal murder shall be unlawful; to provide a penalty; to
5 repeal certain exceptions to certain offenses; to provide for severability; to provide an
6 effective date; to repeal conflicting laws; and for other purposes.
7 BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF GEORGIA:
8 SECTION 1.
9 Title 16 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to crimes and offenses, is
10 amended by striking Article 5, relating to abortion, in its entirety and inserting in lieu thereof
11 the following:
12 " ARTICLE 5
13 16-12-140.
14 (a) The State of Georgia has the duty to protect all innocent life from the moment of
15 conception until natural death. We know that life begins at conception. After three
16 decades of legal human prenatal murder, it is now abundantly clear that the practice has
17 negatively impacted the people of this state in many ways, including economic, health,
18 physical, psychological, emotional, and medical well-being. These, too, are areas of
19 legitimate concern and duty of this state. The General Assembly therefore makes the
20 following findings of fact:
21 (1) A fetus is a person for all purposes under the laws of this state from the moment of
22 conception;
23 (2) The Georgia Constitution, at Article I, Section I, Paragraph II, provides: 'Protection
24 to person and property is the paramount duty of government and shall be impartial and
LC 21 9910S
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1 complete. No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws.' Because a fetus
2 is a person, constitutional protection attaches at the moment of conception. It is therefore
3 the duty of the General Assembly to protect the innocent life that is being taken;
4 (3) Justice Blackmun, writing for the majority in Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973),
5 wrote: 'when those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and
6 theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the
7 development of man´s knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer [to
8 the question of when life begins].'
9 (4) The Supreme Court´s inability to determine what is human life cannot legitimately
10 serve to prohibit Georgia from fulfilling its constitutional mandate to protect the lives of
11 its citizens by prosecuting crimes against said person;
12 (5) The General Assembly knows the answer to that difficult question, and that answer
13 is life begins at the moment of conception;
14 (6) The United States Congress has reserved to itself 'all legislative powers herein vested'
15 according to Article I, Section I of the Constitution of the United States;
16 (7) 'Herein vested' to the United States Congress applies to only five crimes: (1)
17 counterfeiting, (2) piracy, (3) felonies on the high seas, (4) offenses against the law of
18 nations, and (5) treason; according to Article I, Section VIII and Article III, Section III
19 of the Constitution of the United States;
20 (8) Murder is not counterfeiting, piracy, felony on the high seas, an offense against the
21 law of nations, or treason;
22 (9) Georgia has, therefore, reserved to itself exclusive jurisdiction over the definition and
23 punishment of murder under Amendment X of the Constitution of the United States;
24 (10) The United States judiciary only has authority to hear cases or controversies 'arising
25 under this Constitution' and then only if 'affecting ambassadors, other public ministers
26 and consuls; to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction; to controversies to which
27 the United States shall be a Party; to controversies between two or more states; between
28 a state and citizens of another state; between citizens of different states; between citizens
29 of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or
30 the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects';
31 (11) The definition and prosecution of murder within Georgia to protect its own prenatal
32 citizens affects neither an ambassador nor other public minister or consul; is not a case
33 of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction; is not a controversy to which the United States
34 shall be a party; is not a controversy between two or more states, nor between the state
35 of Georgia and the citizens of another state; is not a controversy between a citizen of
36 Georgia and a citizen of a different state; is not related to citizens of Georgia claiming
LC 21 9910S
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1 lands under grants of different states; and is not a case between Georgia or its citizens and
2 another state and its citizens;
3 (12) The United States Supreme Court had no jurisdiction to hear or decide the case of
4 Roe v. Wade;
5 (13) As it had no jurisdiction to hear the case, certainly the United States Supreme Court
6 lacked the authority to pass, or order all states to strike or refuse to enforce, a law that is
7 outside of its subject matter or federal jurisdiction;
8 (14) Even if the United States Supreme Court had jurisdiction, its authority is limited to
9 the case or controversy before it, and its opinion extends no further than between the
10 parties to the case or controversy;
11 (15) It is a foundational principle of our constitutional republic, and 'a proposition too
12 plain to be contested, that the Constitution controls any legislative act repugnant to it'; 'a
13 law repugnant to the Constitution is void' and even 'the courts ... are bound by that
14 instrument'; Marbury v. Madison, 1 U.S. 137, 177 and 180 (1803);
15 (16) As 'an act of the legislature, repugnant to the Constitution, is void,' does not 'bind
16 the courts, and oblige them to give it effect,' Marbury at 177, an act of the United States
17 Supreme Court, repugnant to the Constitution, is void and does not bind the state or
18 oblige it to give it effect;
19 (17) Georgia hereby unequivocally expresses its firm resolution to maintain and defend
20 the Constitution of the United States against every aggression, either foreign or domestic,
21 and most solemnly declares a warm attachment to the Union of the states and seeks its
22 preservation and continuation;
23 (18) It is 'for this end it is their duty to watch over and oppose every infraction of those
24 principles which constitute the only basis of that Union'; Virginia Resolutions of 1798-99;
25 (19) However, denying to a state the right to define and punish a crime not specified in
26 the United States Constitution is a per se legislative act;
27 (20) The nullification of a state´s properly promulgated laws is specifically delineated
28 as an offense committed by King George against the states, for which separation became
29 necessary; The Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America;
30 (21) Compliance with, and continuation of, a fiat determination of the Supreme Court
31 from nearly 35 years ago will cause the basis of this Union, and eventually the Union
32 itself, to fall;
33 (22) Georgia was not a party to the suit in Roe v. Wade, and is not bound by a decision
34 in which it did not have right of participation;
35 (23) Georgia is not restricted in its duty to its citizens due to the failure of the State of
36 Texas to properly plead 'lack of subject matter jurisdiction';
LC 21 9910S
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1 (24) As the United States Constitution confers to no federal branch either the authority
2 over the definition or prosecution of murder, or the power to nullify the laws of a state
3 that do the same, Roe v. Wade is 'no law,' is a nullity, and carries no legal effect in
4 Georgia;
5 (25) The act of prenatal murder is murder and conspiracy to commit murder per se;
6 (26) The act of prenatal murder has caused a significant reduction in the number of
7 citizens in this state that would serve as workers, entrepreneurs, teachers, employees, and
8 employers that would have significantly contributed to the prosperity and continuation
9 of this state; and
10 (27) The failure to prosecute a violation of this code section is a violation of the
11 obligation of this state to provide all of its citizens with an equal protection of the laws.
12 (b) As used in this Code section, the term:
13 (1) 'Fetus' means a person at any point of development from and including the moment
14 of conception through the moment of birth. Such term includes all medical or popular
15 designations of an unborn child from the moment of conception such as conceptus,
16 zygote, embryo, homunculus, and similar terms.
17 (2) 'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an
18 intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however,
19 that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother
20 and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder.
21 Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically
22 as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human
23 involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event.
24 (c) The act of prenatal murder is contrary to the health and well-being of the citizens of
25 this state and to the state itself and is illegal in this state in all instances.
26 (d) Any person committing prenatal murder in this state shall be guilty of a felony and,
27 upon conviction, shall be punished as provided in subsection (d) of Code Section 16-5-1.
28 The license of any physician indicted for an alleged violation of this Code section shall be
29 suspended until resolution of the matter. The license of any physician convicted of a
30 violation of this Code section shall be permanently revoked. The provisions of this Code
31 section shall be in addition to any other provisions relating to the killing of a fetus or any
32 other person."
33 SECTION 2.1.
34 Said title is further amended in subsection (h) of Code Section 16-5-20, relating to simple
35 assault, by striking current paragraph (1) and by redesignating current paragraphs (2) and (3)
36 as paragraphs (1) and (2), respectively.
LC 21 9910S
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1 SECTION 2.2.
2 Said title is further amended in subsection (d) of Code Section 16-5-28, relating to assault
3 on an unborn child, by striking current paragraph (1) and by redesignating current paragraphs
4 (2) and (3) as paragraphs (1) and (2), respectively.
5 SECTION 2.3.
6 Said title is further amended in subsection (d) of Code Section 16-5-29, relating to battery
7 on an unborn child, by striking current paragraph (1) and by redesignating current paragraphs
8 (2) and (3) as paragraphs (1) and (2), respectively.
9 SECTION 2.4.
10 Said title is further amended in subsection (f) of Code Section 16-5-80, relating to feticide,
11 voluntary manslaughter of an unborn child, and penalties, by striking current paragraph (1)
12 and by redesignating current paragraphs (2) and (3) as paragraphs (1) and (2), respectively.
13 SECTION 2.5.
14 Chapter 11 of Title 15, relating to juvenile proceedings, is amended in Code Section
15 15-11-28, relating to jurisdiction of the juvenile courts, by striking current subparagraph
16 (a)(1)(D) and by redesignating current subparagraph (a)(1)(E) as subparagraph (a)(1)(D).
17 SECTION 2.6.
18 Said chapter is further amended by repealing in its entirety Article 3, the "Parental
19 Notification Act," and designating said article as reserved.
20 SECTION 2.7.
21 Code Section 20-2-773, relating to restrictions on student health services and utilization of
22 state funds, is amended by revising subsection (a) as follows:
23 " (a) No facility operated on public school property or operated by a public school district
24 and no employee of any such facility acting within the scope of such employee´s
25 employment shall provide any of the following health services to public school students:
26 distribute contraceptives.
27 (1) Distribution of contraceptives;
28 (2) Performance of abortions;
29 (3) Referrals for abortion; or
30 (4) Dispensing abortifacients."
LC 21 9910S
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1 SECTION 2.8.
2 Title 31, relating to health, is amended in Code Section 31-2-1, relating to the duty,
3 functions, and powers of the Department of Human Resources, by adding "and" at the end
4 of paragraph (11), by striking current paragraph (12), and by redesignating current paragraph
5 (13) as paragraph (12).
6 SECTION 2.9.
7 Said title is further amended in paragraph (1) of Code Section 31-7-1, relating to definitions,
8 by striking current subparagraph (C) and by redesignating current subparagraphs (D), (E),
9 (F), and (G) as subparagraphs (C), (D), (E), and (F), respectively.
10 SECTION 2.10.
11 Said title is further amended by revising subsection (a) of Code Section 31-7-9, relating to
12 reports by physicians and other personnel of nonaccidental injuries to patients and immunity
13 from liability, as follows:
14 " (a) As used in this Code section, the term 'medical facility' includes, without being limited
15 to, an ambulatory surgical treatment center defined in subparagraph (D) (C) of paragraph
16 (1) of Code Section 31-7-1."
17 SECTION 2.11.
18 Said title is further amended in Code Section 31-9-5, relating to the applicability of the
19 "Georgia Medical consent Law" to abortion and sterilization procedures, by striking the
20 words "abortion and" and "procedures".
21 SECTION 2.12.
22 Said title is further amended by repealing in its entirety Chapter 9A, the "Woman´s Right To
23 Know Act."
24 SECTION 2.13.
25 Said title is further amended in subsection (b) of Code Section 31-32-14, relating to the effect
26 of certain provisions relating to living wills on other legal rights and duties, by striking the
27 last sentence.
28 SECTION 2.14.
29 Said title is further amended in subsection (c) of Code Section 33-24-59.6, relating to
30 prescribed female contraceptive drugs or devices and insurance coverage, by striking the last
31 sentence.
LC 21 9910S
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1 SECTION 2.15.
2 Said title is further amended by revising subparagraph (C) of paragraph (1) of Code Section
3 33-60-3, relating to definitions, as follows:
4 " (C) Coverage of testing for chlamydia in Code Section 31-17-4.1; coverage for
5 complications of pregnancy in Code Section 33-24-24; coverage for general anesthesia
6 and related hospital and outpatient facility charges for dental care for persons who are
7 developmentally disabled, seven or younger, neurologically impaired, or suffering
8 severe face or head trauma in Code Section 33-24-28.4; surveillance tests for ovarian
9 cancer in Code Section 33-24-56.2; colorectal cancer screening and testing in Code
10 Section 33-24-56.3; coverage for hospital stays after delivery in Code Section
11 33-24-58.2; direct access to obstetricians and gynecologists in Code Section 33-24-59;
12 treatment of dependent children with cancer in Code Section 33-24-59.1; coverage for
13 equipment and self-management training for individuals with diabetes in Code Section
14 33-24-59.2; coverage for prescribed female contraceptive drugs or devices in Code
15 Section 33-24-59.6, provided that nothing contained in this paragraph shall be
16 construed to require any insurance company to provide coverage for abortion; coverage
17 for prescription inhalers in Code Section 33-24-59.8; coverage for autism in Code
18 Section 33-24-59.10; coverage for mastectomy and lymph node dissection in Code
19 Section 33-24-72; coverage for mammograms, pap Pap smears, and screening for
20 prostate cancer in Code Sections 33-29-3.2 and 33-30-4.2; provisions concerning
21 mail-order pharmaceuticals in Code Section 33-30-4.3; and coverage for child wellness
22 exams in Code Sections 33-29-3.4 and 33-30-4.5."
23 SECTION 2.16.
24 Chapter 34 of Title 43, relating to physicians, acupuncture, physician´s assistants, cancer and
25 glaucoma treatment, respiratory care, clinical perfusionists, and orthotics and prosthetics
26 practice, is amended by striking and reserving subsection (l) of Code Section 43-34-26.3,
27 relating to delegation of certain medical acts to advanced practice registered nurses,
28 construction and limitations of such delegation, definitions, conditions of nurse protocol, and
29 issuance of prescription drug orders.
30 SECTION 2.17.
31 Said title is further amended by striking and reserving paragraph (8) of subsection (a) of
32 Code Section 43-34-37, relating to the authority of the Composite State Board of Medical
33 Examiners to refuse license to or discipline physicians, restoration of licenses, enforcement
34 investigations, evidentiary privileges, closed hearings, immunity for reporting violations, and
35 when investigation or assessment of licensee´s fitness to practice is required.
LC 21 9910S
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1 SECTION 3.
2 In the event any section, subsection, sentence, clause, or phrase of this Act shall be declared
3 or adjudged invalid or unconstitutional by the Georgia Supreme Court, such adjudication
4 shall in no manner affect the other sections, subsections, sentences, clauses, or phrases of this
5 Act, which shall remain of full force and effect as if the section, subsection, sentence, clause,
6 or phrase so declared or adjudged invalid or unconstitutional were not originally a part
7 hereof. The General Assembly declares that it would have passed the remaining parts of this
8 Act if it had known that such part or parts hereof would be declared or adjudged invalid or
9 unconstitutional. No portion of this Act may be found to be unconstitutional by the federal
10 courts as they lack the subject matter jurisdiction to instruct this state how or whether to
11 prosecute certain crimes.
12 SECTION 4.
13 This Act shall become effective upon its approval by the Governor or upon its becoming law
14 without such approval.
15 SECTION 5.
16 All laws and parts of laws in conflict with this Act are repealed.

reply from: sander

Thank you on behalf of the child in the womb for all your hard work.

reply from: yoda

Thanks, smurf, I missed that the first time!

reply from: Beprolifewithme

Very well done faithman. Now isn't this a muuuuuuuuuch better way to prove your point to pro-death people than calling them death scancs and bortheads? Although I did see borthead posted......well done though.

reply from: Beprolifewithme

Very well done faithman. Now isn't this a muuuuuuuuuch better way to prove your point to pro-death people than calling them death scancs and bortheads? Although I did see borthead posted......well done though.

reply from: faithman

This is a message to the pro-personhood folks, not the pro-death scum bag maggot bortheads.

reply from: Teresa18

Great pro-life/pro-personhood videos. The first three are my favorite.
Pro Life Music Video - Let Them Be Little (good pictures and quotes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlUy2kuK-s

Medical Science Proves Abortion Is Killing of Human Beings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPamlX4HQ0

Thinking about having an abortion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX0JVamXpIs&feature=related

Life is Beautiful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyFrGbAvfHc&feature=related

Abortion And Pro-life, Morning Has Broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_oH9mLMtx0&feature=related

Pro-life Anti-Abortion Video: Development of the Unborn Baby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l1-kvKomg

Fetal Development
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDUg0dmkONo&feature=related

Human Reproduction: Fertilization and Fetal Development
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eelyg_k5iw&feature=related

reply from: nancyu

I found this website which compares the legality of abortion in different countries.
Interesting.
http://www.pregnantpause.org/lex/world02.htm

reply from: faithman

Anybody who is interested in establishing personhood for the womb child, should go back over this thred, and get inspired as to what to do in your area. We need a great ground swell of grass roots interest to demand that this insanity stops.We need to refuse to listen to anyone who does not suport personhood. We must demand that all pro-life "leaders" get behind the effort to directly atribute personhood for the womb child.

reply from: faithman

South Carolina joins fight for personhood http://www.scstatehouse.net/sess117_2007-2008/bills/3284.htm

reply from: nancyu

fighting with faithman for personhood

reply from: faithman

It is about the personhood of the womb child. Once established, all this craziness goes away. So pro-personhood folks just need to ingnore prochoice/prolife and keep the focus on personhood for the womb child. Anything else is a distraction, and ultimatly deadly to our preborn brothers and sisters. They are who we fight for, and there is where our loyalty belongs, not to a "movement" that has sold them out, and cares more about looking good, than saving BABIES lives. This is 1st last and always about the child in the womb. This is not about all the neo-prolifers that have personal aggendas, who have even point blank said on this forum that they would fight presonhood tooth and nail just to keep future killers out of Jail. Pro-personhood folks need to quit being bogged down in emotionalism, and realize the guilty should be prosicuted. That no new laws will have to be legislated when personhood for the womb child is established. The ones already there will work just fine, and a jury of 12 citizens have the final say. Pro-personhood people need to elect state legislators that will establish personhood at the state level, then let them graduate to the federal level to get the job done there as well. WE THE PEOPLE need to speak loud and often. It is time we quit asking, and demand action on behalf of children in the womb. Or we can continue to play stupid little semantical games and watch the children die another 3 plus decades.

reply from: Faramir

You need the Congress to do this, am I right?
We have a majority in both houses who are likely to be prochoice.
How will this be accomplished?
Why not for now push to have justices who will reverse Roe v Wade and put it in the hands of the states?
How are you going to get personhood without having the votes in congress?

reply from: Teresa18

Sadly, we can't do it with this Dem Congress. If we get a pro-life Republican Congress and President we can possibly do it. We blew our chance when we had Bush and a Republican Congress. I can't see McCain signing it, but you never know. We can push for personhood in individual states. Some states are working on that now. Plus, we can continue to open minds and prevent abortion in the short term.

reply from: Faramir

I understand that the Democrats could increase their majority in both houses this term.
We would have to have prolifers in majorities in both houses along with a prolife president in order to get it. That is not the case now, and is not likely to be the case after the election. The right combination could take many years.
I'm wondering if McCain is elected if we even have a chance of prolife judges being appointed, if the Senate is Democrat controlled.

reply from: faithman

You need the Congress to do this, am I right?
We have a majority in both houses who are likely to be prochoice.
How will this be accomplished?
Why not for now push to have justices who will reverse Roe v Wade and put it in the hands of the states?
How are you going to get personhood without having the votes in congress?
We had a "pro-life" majority before 2006, but because of idiots like you blowing stupid smoke like your last post, people are not being made aware of just how simple roe could be over turned the right way. Why go the route where it will be 50 times the fight, when in one fell swoop the life at conception act would cure it in all 50 states? That is why we should have a personhood litmus test for who we vote for. The more stupidity you post here, and the more you defend baby killers, makes me really doubt you are pro-life. And just what did you do with the cards I sent you with hard earned money out of my own pocket? When are you going to post a report on them?

reply from: Faramir

I sent you a PM about your cards.
How much do I need to send you to keep you from whining any more about them?
If we had a prolife majority, I sure as heck didn't stop them from making personhood legislation. I would have supported it.
Maybe they know something I don't know.
But for now, we are not in a good position with a Democrat controlled congress, are we?

reply from: faithman

Everyone I have sent the cards to[at no cost to them] I have asked to post a little report on the IAAP thred to encourage others to get them. Not only have you not, but very rarely if ever do you post in defence of the womb child. Their are many states in the process of getting personhood bills passed, and duncan hunter has introduced a LIFE AT CONCEPTION ACT to the legislature, as he does every session, which has gained more suport everytime. You are really ignorant willingly ,it would seem. You have the right to post your stupid crap, and I have the right to call your dumb behind on it. So go to your little borty forum and cry about it.

reply from: Faramir

I'm not willfully ingornant. All I had ever heard from the prolife people was getting Roe v Wade overturned, and then sending the decision back to the states.

reply from: faithman

That is because you are listening to word strackers who make big money off the "movement" and have a vested interest to see that abortion never really ends. If a so called movement hasn't achieved it's goal in 3 and a half decades, they are either very dumb and inept, or they have hidden agendas like killer carole that do not have the womb childs best interest at heart. The way to over turn roe is a personhood act. It is time pro-lifers realize the have been sold out by "leaders" who have more interest in money and power insted of using those tools to address the issue. I would say you are most assurredly ignorant whether willingly or not. Maybe you should pay more attention to what is being posted here insted of trying to bully everyone to post your way. Didn't I here a rumor you were conspireing with others to leave? And you are still here becauzzzzzzzz......

reply from: Faramir

Nobody has to "leave" to post on another board. I can post here and on another board. There are members here who post on other boards.
I thought perhaps that others saw what I was seeing--that things were becoming ridculous here, and maybe there would be another place we could discuss this with a greater amount of sanity and respect.
That doesn't mean anyone would have to "leave" though one person has, and I have heard that others want to as well.
Getting back to the point, I find it hard to believe that the mainstream prolife movement is all about power and money. If personhood is the way to go, then they would be working on that, and maybe they see that as the next step.
I know the Catholic Church tells us to consider personhood from the moment of conception, so many people already have that definition established in a religious sense.
But if there are zealots who appear too eager to establish personhood because of a desire to punish or get revenge on the women who abort, it will be met with resistance. Are those in the movement who want personhood established as enthusiastic as you are to see that the women are severely punished?

reply from: faithman

And the little boy continues to spin things into what they are not. It is about equal justice under the law. And in case you haven't noticed, yes, there are many who see they have been sold a bill of goods, and are getting behind personhood. Why do you not call it revenge when a killer mom of the born go to jail? Why do you continue to condone the inequality of justice killer carole espouces insted of equal justice for womb children thru personhood bills? That is the quickest way to end abortion. But your post prove your mean, hatefull attitude towards womb children.

reply from: Faramir

There are some good reasons to not seek punishment for the women at this stage, when we've been brainwashed for decades that abortion is acceptable and good.
But this discussion has happened here before many times, even in the short time I've been here.
We all want abortion to end, though. And most of us want it to be illegal.
How close are you to getting personhood legislation passed?

reply from: faithman

We would be alot closer if idiots like you would shut up. But it is gaining momentum every day.

reply from: Faramir

We would be alot closer if idiots like you would shut up. But it is gaining momentum every day.
But how close are you? Could it happen before Roe v Wade is overturned?

reply from: faithman

We would be alot closer if idiots like you would shut up. But it is gaining momentum every day.
But how close are you? Could it happen before Roe v Wade is overturned?

reply from: faithman

We would be alot closer if idiots like you would shut up. But it is gaining momentum every day.
But how close are you? Could it happen before Roe v Wade is overturned?
That is the way it will be over turned.

reply from: GratiaPlena

I think I agree with the OP. If we just overturn Roe vs. Wade, there will be people who will try to dodge and jump around with that, but if we establish personhood, I think that would be harder to do.
I could be wrong, however. Even with personhood established for former slaves, the black codes were still passed in the South and they still got away with a lot of things. Maybe America will need a very long time to recover from the wound of abortion.

reply from: nancyu

I think you are right about that. I just keep hoping that people would just STOP exercising that precious "right to choose" (to kill babies)

reply from: faithman

Even after it is over, we will spend decades cleaning up the mess. But we could get a good start, by starting right. The life at conception act cures this legally in all 50 states. It puts us on the right constitutional path, with the least amount of effort, and the smallest danger to the integraty to the constitution. The codes were passed in the south, because folks were war weary, and they saw another civil war on the horizon with reconstruction. That wearyness seems to be effecting the pro-life movement as well. The 2006 ellections are an example. It was the pro-life vote that put the rep. in office. And yet they totally blew us off once there. they played "nice" while the babies died. That caused the apothy that ushered in the dem take over of congress. We must remain focused. No more compromises and pragmatism. There is a ground swell in the states for personhood. Personhood must be the uniting vision, and the image of that vission must be materials like IAAP. They can no longer pretend ignorance. Fetal developement pictures and ultra sound blows this "well some women are being missled" crap out of the water. If a woman is ignorant about womb life, then they are so willingly. But we have been just as willingly mis led by leaders, and idiots, who steal the focus off of personhood.

reply from: faithman

Even after it is over, we will spend decades cleaning up the mess. But we could get a good start, by starting right. The life at conception act cures this legally in all 50 states. It puts us on the right constitutional path, with the least amount of effort, and the smallest danger to the integraty to the constitution. The codes were passed in the south, because folks were war weary, and they saw another civil war on the horizon with reconstruction. That wearyness seems to be effecting the pro-life movement as well. The 2006 ellections are an example. It was the pro-life vote that put the rep. in office. And yet they totally blew us off once there. they played "nice" while the babies died. That caused the apothy that ushered in the dem take over of congress. We must remain focused. No more compromises and pragmatism. There is a ground swell in the states for personhood. Personhood must be the uniting vision, and the image of that vission must be materials like IAAP. They can no longer pretend ignorance. Fetal developement pictures and ultra sound blows this "well some women are being missled" crap out of the water. If a woman is ignorant about womb life, then they are so willingly. But we have been just as willingly mis led by leaders, and idiots, who steal the focus off of personhood.

reply from: nancyu

Even after it is over, we will spend decades cleaning up the mess. But we could get a good start, by starting right. The life at conception act cures this legally in all 50 states. It puts us on the right constitutional path, with the least amount of effort, and the smallest danger to the integraty to the constitution. The codes were passed in the south, because folks were war weary, and they saw another civil war on the horizon with reconstruction. That wearyness seems to be effecting the pro-life movement as well. The 2006 ellections are an example. It was the pro-life vote that put the rep. in office. And yet they totally blew us off once there. they played "nice" while the babies died. That caused the apothy that ushered in the dem take over of congress. We must remain focused. No more compromises and pragmatism. There is a ground swell in the states for personhood. Personhood must be the uniting vision, and the image of that vission must be materials like IAAP. They can no longer pretend ignorance. Fetal developement pictures and ultra sound blows this "well some women are being missled" crap out of the water. If a woman is ignorant about womb life, then they are so willingly. But we have been just as willingly mis led by leaders, and idiots, who steal the focus off of personhood.

reply from: nancyu

Nancy,
Thank you very much for your supportive comments. I intend to work in Congress to support the Life At Conception Act that is currently stalled there. I would certainly work to see personhood protected under our Constitution. I, for one, believe that it clearly already protects Life. Language protecting a right to abortion should be removed.
Thank you for the link to prolifeamerica.com. I will have that link added to my campaign web site. You might be interested in knowing that I was interviewed just this morning by Day Gardener of National Pro-Life Radio Network. This was my third time on Day's program! Momentum is building and I appreciate your support.
Sincerely,
-Dean
****************************
Scontras for Congress
dean@teamdean08.com
(207) 221-3447
Visit www.teamdean08.com
Paid for and authorized by the Dean Scontras for Congress Campaign Committee
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Nancy U <> wrote:
Dear Mr. Scontras,
I have seen your website, and I like what I see.. I am especially concerned with life issues, and it is extremely refreshing to see someone stand and speak out in defense of life. I would like to see a personhood ammendment added to our Constitution. Would you fight for or support such an amendment?
If you would like to join in on some discussion of the pro life movement, I invite you to visit the forum at prolifeamerica.com Best wishes for a successful campaign!
Sincerely,
Nancy U...
"In the Rocky Mountain state where two 40 Days for Life campaigns have been conducted, momentum continues to build around a major petition drive for a ballot initiative that will add 14 simple words to the state constitution: "The term 'Person' or 'Persons' shall include any human from the time of fertilization."

reply from: yoda

In my state, we have a tradition of something called a "citizen's arrest".

reply from: yoda

The thing is, both things could happen at once. Roe could be overturned by the establishment of personhood, in fact Justice Blackmun said exactly that when he wrote Roe.
Or, it could be overturned on some other technical grounds, leaving the status of the unborn in limbo.

reply from: nancyu

The thing is, both things could happen at once. Roe could be overturned by the establishment of personhood, in fact Justice Blackmun said exactly that when he wrote Roe.
Or, it could be overturned on some other technical grounds, leaving the status of the unborn in limbo.

reply from: faithman

It is about the personhood of the womb child. Once established, all this craziness goes away. So pro-personhood folks just need to ingnore prochoice/prolife and keep the focus on personhood for the womb child. Anything else is a distraction, and ultimatly deadly to our preborn brothers and sisters. They are who we fight for, and there is where our loyalty belongs, not to a "movement" that has sold them out, and cares more about looking good, than saving BABIES lives. This is 1st last and always about the child in the womb. This is not about all the neo-prolifers that have personal aggendas, who have even point blank said on this forum that they would fight presonhood tooth and nail just to keep future killers out of Jail. Pro-personhood folks need to quit being bogged down in emotionalism, and realize the guilty should be prosicuted. That no new laws will have to be legislated when personhood for the womb child is established. The ones already there will work just fine, and a jury of 12 citizens have the final say. Pro-personhood people need to elect state legislators that will establish personhood at the state level, then let them graduate to the federal level to get the job done there as well. WE THE PEOPLE need to speak loud and often. It is time we quit asking, and demand action on behalf of children in the womb. Or we can continue to play stupid little semantical games and watch the children die another 3 plus decades.

reply from: faithman

http://www.all.org/associates/dec.htm

reply from: nancyu

Truth and the Human Person
The life of every individual human being normally begins in the fallopian tubes at the moment of fertilization when the sperm fuses with the ovum to form a single celled zygote. Even though it is tiny, this human being usually contains 46 chromosomes, is already male or female, and has the capacity to direct his/her own growth and development. The zygote immediately begins to grow and continues through a process of development. The zygote is a living human being, a human individual, and, therefore, a person. It is not an opinion or an arbitrary statement. It is a basic scientific fact that has been known for over a century. It is the definition found in human embryology and biology textbooks around the world. This is an absolute objective truth that does not and cannot change.

reply from: nancyu

Truth and the Human Person
The life of every individual human being normally begins in the fallopian tubes at the moment of fertilization when the sperm fuses with the ovum to form a single celled zygote. Even though it is tiny, this human being usually contains 46 chromosomes, is already male or female, and has the capacity to direct his/her own growth and development. The zygote immediately begins to grow and continues through a process of development. The zygote is a living human being, a human individual, and, therefore, a person. It is not an opinion or an arbitrary statement. It is a basic scientific fact that has been known for over a century. It is the definition found in human embryology and biology textbooks around the world. This is an absolute objective truth that does not and cannot change.

reply from: nancyu

http://www.lifeissues.org/ultrasound/25weeks.htm

reply from: nancyu

It is about the personhood of the womb child. Once established, all this craziness goes away. So pro-personhood folks just need to ingnore prochoice/prolife and keep the focus on personhood for the womb child. Anything else is a distraction, and ultimatly deadly to our preborn brothers and sisters. They are who we fight for, and there is where our loyalty belongs, not to a "movement" that has sold them out, and cares more about looking good, than saving BABIES lives. This is 1st last and always about the child in the womb. This is not about all the neo-prolifers that have personal aggendas, who have even point blank said on this forum that they would fight presonhood tooth and nail just to keep future killers out of Jail. Pro-personhood folks need to quit being bogged down in emotionalism, and realize the guilty should be prosicuted. That no new laws will have to be legislated when personhood for the womb child is established. The ones already there will work just fine, and a jury of 12 citizens have the final say. Pro-personhood people need to elect state legislators that will establish personhood at the state level, then let them graduate to the federal level to get the job done there as well. WE THE PEOPLE need to speak loud and often. It is time we quit asking, and demand action on behalf of children in the womb. Or we can continue to play stupid little semantical games and watch the children die another 3 plus decades.
(#437)

reply from: faithman

Some clones just have a special place in my DNA.

reply from: faithman

Some clones just have a special place in my DNA.

reply from: faithman

Some clones just have a special place in my DNA.

reply from: cracrat

Since the majority of the American people support the right of a woman to choose, surely it'd be better not to ask these questions right now lest you make the job of the next generation even harder.

reply from: faithman

Since the majority of the American people support the right of a woman to choose, surely it'd be better not to ask these questions right now lest you make the job of the next generation even harder.
Nice try, but you are simply wrong. More people are pro-life than ever. It all depends on the questions asked. Pro-abort polls are skewed and mis-leading. When we use the IAAP imagry, I assure you that most polled who have seen it say they are not for killing a child.


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