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Pro-Life or Pro-Choice? What am I?

by: Called2Action

Okay, obviously there has been some confusion. Let's all make ourselves plain and clear.
I am Catholic, believe it or not. I do not condone killing babies as a form of birth control. That's ridiculous, painful, and just outright dumb. I DO however, respect the woman's choice to control what is in her body, living, human, or not. It is wrong to tell a woman, "Your body is your own; except when there is a baby in your uterus. Then it belongs to the state."
This must make me Pro-Right to ownership of my own body, uterus included.
If you think you're doing something godly by saying only, "Abortion is wrong no matter which direction you flip it!" then you're sadly mistaken. I've taken birth control before. That prevents any fetus that may have been conceived from sticking to my uterine wall. Does that mean i'm a serial killer? Sit down and think of what you would really do if you were in a rape situation or similar. Quit being so high on your perfect little thrones and get real.

reply from: abc123

Called2Action,
You are clearly pro-choice since you feel it is okay to kill the child in the womb regardless of what you may think is growing inside of her. The mother is called to protect her child not to let an assassin destroy it. No matter how you slice it you can't go both ways. And if you are Catholic and believe that the Bible is true then why do you believe that it is wrong to tell a woman that her body is her own except when there is a baby in the uterus? Our bodies are not ours but God's. (I Corinthians 6:19-20)
If you have taken birth control pills there is a possibility that you have killed a son or daughter who was in the early stages of life who later was snuffed out by you taking the pill.
In regards to rape, it has been said on her before but a child should never have to die for the sins of the father, nor should the mother be 'raped' again by having an abortion.
Truth is truth. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth because there is no truth in him. (John 8:44)

reply from: LolitaOlivia

You're what we call pro-life personal, pro-choice political. I take it you find abortion wrong and would never get one but think it should still be legal? It's a very common position. It's perfectly normal to dislike abortion but not want to ban it.

reply from: lukesmom

Sorry, but you are NOT Catholic because you refuse to obey and follow the doctrines of the church. That makes you a proabort that goes to a Catholic church and CALLS herself Catholic. Calling yourself Catholic doesn't make you Catholic, it makes you a liar if you are a proabort. I am Catholic. I live my religion and the Catholic churches beliefs. Somehow you have the mistaken idea (common for the more ignorant proaborts) that prolifers have never been raped, in unwanted pregnancies, single parents, had financial difficulties or faced a challenging or fatal pregnancy. Wake up and smell reality! Prolifers don't live in Camolot but instead are real people just like you. The difference is, we value ALL human life (and most of us animal life also) AND we live our beliefs in good and hard situations. I don't believe I am "Godly", I leave that to God but I try my best to live His Word and I don't deceive myself by manipulating His Word to fit my situation. I also don't live on a "perfect throne" and have faced real life pregnancy challanges most women will never have to deal with. I have lived my beliefs and that gives me the unique position to question your beliefs AND your motives. I don't appreciate your nasty insinuations and assumptions. You are making an a** out of yourself.

reply from: lukesmom

Oh, forgot. Too busy sitting on my throne and eating bon bons, I guess. BTW, I AM pro woman, pro children and PROCHOICE but abortion is not a choice.

reply from: Called2Action

Thank you so much. You truly are an understanding and loving person.

reply from: Called2Action

I value human life. I said that quite plainly. I love children, I love babies, I love life. Church and state are separate institutions in America. It needs to stay that way, because if it doesn't, we'll just end up with radicals. Picture Iraq--loaded with hateful radical islamic people who want us all dead because we don't believe in what the Quaran says. Nice, eh? Open a history book or google "the crusades". I love my church, but it needs to stay out of the state's affairs.
It is only the responsibility of the church to give people a REASON not to have an abortion and help those who can't support themselves--not to try changing laws so that they coincide with canon law. I can still be Catholic and slightly disagree with the doctrine. Just like a daughter can disagree with her father.
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.

reply from: faithman

I value human life. I said that quite plainly. I love children, I love babies, I love life. Church and state are separate institutions in America. It needs to stay that way, because if it doesn't, we'll just end up with radicals. Picture Iraq--loaded with hateful radical islamic people who want us all dead because we don't believe in what the Quaran says. Nice, eh? Open a history book or google "the crusades". I love my church, but it needs to stay out of the state's affairs.
It is only the responsibility of the church to give people a REASON not to have an abortion and help those who can't support themselves--not to try changing laws so that they coincide with canon law. I can still be Catholic and slightly disagree with the doctrine. Just like a daughter can disagree with her father.
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.
If you don't believe in the faith of your church, don't have any. Oh thats right, you don't.

reply from: Called2Action

Who asked for your opinion? I said grow a uterus and then you can argue with me. Your comment didn't make any sense. Open a syntax book. From what I could make out of that comment, my reply is simple: I'll let GOD be the judge of whether I have faith or not.

reply from: AshMarie88

I agree with you, just not on the abortion part. When you claim to own your body, that means YOUR body, not anyone else's. Children in the womb are not YOUR body and you cannot OWN them. You cannot OWN people! That's called SLAVERY and it's wrong.
MY body is MY OWN. MY tonsils are MINE. MY lungs are MINE. MY limbs are MINE. MY eyes are MINE. MY liver is MINE. MY child is not MINE. NOT MY body.

reply from: AshMarie88

Of course abortion is "choice". No one here is denying that. EVERYTHING is a "choice", people we "choose" to do things. We CHOOSE to eat. We CHOOSE to bathe. We CHOOSE to love. We CHOOSE to have fun.
People CHOOSE to rape. People CHOOSE to murder. People CHOOSE to own slaves. People CHOOSE to go to war.
EVERYTHING is a choice, right or WRONG.

reply from: xnavy

i am also a woman and i don't believe in abortion, because i don't think a woman should have the right to kill her unborn baby or born baby
i have not lived a perfect life with only planned pregnancies or anything perfect, who has????i also believe in the saying if you don't stand
for something, you will fall for anything.

reply from: faithman

Who asked for your opinion? I said grow a uterus and then you can argue with me. Your comment didn't make any sense. Open a syntax book. From what I could make out of that comment, my reply is simple: I'll let GOD be the judge of whether I have faith or not.
.... and I said grow a brain before you open your stupid mouth. No one has to ask for my opinion, I can give it just as freely as your apostate behind can. No one asked for yours either, but you sure give yours past the foot you have swallowed. What God are you talking about? The god of this world, and abortion [satan]? Or the God who said you will know them by their fruit? The God who said the womb is His work shop where He creates human life that bears His image? The God who said that He hates the workers of inequaty, and those who shed innocent blood? You want to dishonor the God who created the uterus, and said what it was for, and then want to talk down to me? It would be laughable if it were not so sad and tragic.

reply from: faithman

Oh gosh!!!! Looks like the majority of uterus owners on this thread agree with me!!!! Sorry death scancs. You loose.

reply from: Called2Action

Okay, now you're just being childish. "Grow a brain before you open your stupid mouth". Come on, man. At least make a good political argument instead of nitpicking me personally. Say something that would make congress nod in approval by creating an argument that honors both woman and fetus, not just the latter. That's the first step in getting your beliefs made law.
Say something that makes some sense to both parties, not just your own. Being one-sided like that doesn't get you anywhere.

reply from: lukesmom

Thank you so much. You truly are an understanding and loving person.
Yea, so loving that she has her unborn child ripped apart, taken from from the supposed safety of the womb and then drinks tea and parties with other proaborts. She is about as loving and understanding as a black widow.... If she is "loving" than so was Hitler and all other "loving" murderers sitting on death row. Wake up!!! What is so difficult to understand? Why are you "buying into" the lies and stupidity of the proaborts instead of educating yourself. At the very least be honest and admit that abortion kills a human life and that you don't care. At least then you wouldn't be lying to yourself and the rest of society.

reply from: Called2Action

Is this a forum or a football game?

reply from: faithman

AN ACT OF MURDER. SSSHHHHEEEEEEZZZZZE sem like you bort heads would know that by now. Or sorry. It ain't polite to ask the mentally defissiant to do something they have no copasity to do.

reply from: Called2Action

Alright, then. Abortion kills human life, and so can giving birth. Pointing at one side and calling them stupid doesn't make you look any smarter. The difference between Hitler and Pro-Choicers is that Hitler killed Jews just because he didn't like them living in Germany (or any other state he claimed for that matter). Pro-Choicers don't kill at all; they simply want registered citizens of the United States to have the rights promised to them by the constitution. Freedom of choice.

reply from: faithman

Okay, now you're just being childish. "Grow a brain before you open your stupid mouth". Come on, man. At least make a good political argument instead of nitpicking me personally. Say something that would make congress nod in approval by creating an argument that honors both woman and fetus, not just the latter. That's the first step in getting your beliefs made law.
Say something that makes some sense to both parties, not just your own. Being one-sided like that doesn't get you anywhere.
I am not here to argue politics. I could care less. I am not trying to go anywhere else except in the position of defence for the womb child. A woman has the "choice" to honor herself by being a mother insted of a killer. The womb girl has no choice to control what happens to her body. Innocent people without power must rely on us that do to protect them. That was true with slavery, and it is now true for the womb child. Slither back under your rock viper. Everyone knows what you are here.

reply from: 4given

And proaborts kill, or advocate the elective extermination of the unborn because they don't like them living in their wombs. How much do you actually understand about abortion? Have you done any research?

reply from: AshMarie88

Alright, then. Abortion kills human life, and so can giving birth. Pointing at one side and calling them stupid doesn't make you look any smarter. The difference between Hitler and Pro-Choicers is that Hitler killed Jews just because he didn't like them living in Germany (or any other state he claimed for that matter). Pro-Choicers don't kill at all; they simply want registered citizens of the United States to have the rights promised to them by the constitution. Freedom of choice.
Abortion kills; birth doesn't.
Abortion kills more people than birth does.

reply from: AshMarie88

Btw give me one section in the Constitution that guarantees us "freedom of choice" when it comes to our bodies.

reply from: xnavy

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION ABORTION IS A GIFT TO IRREPONSIBLE MEN WHO SEE WOMEN AS SEX OBJECTS TO BE USED.

reply from: jujujellybean

Get real? Huh. The real that the church says is wrong ALL THE WAY AROUND? Seriously, if you are catholic and their teaching isn't good enough for you, you need to rethink some stuff.
BC is wrong too. The catholic church teaches GOD is the giver of life. HE decides when you conceive, and BC is a direct contradiction.
BTW, if you have intercourse before marriage, then that's contradicting the church too.
And also, the real that we would have 44 million more people here if abortion wasn't legal? The number would be drastically different.
Calling yourself Catholic doesn't cut it. Sorry.

reply from: Called2Action

I'm married, sweetheart. The birth control was not to prevent pregnancy, it's because I have a mild case of endometriosis. If you've never heard of it, it causes extremely painful periods twice as often as you have them. Using birth control to control birth is different than using it as a medication. Even the church says that, believe me, I asked my priest.
I didn't say abortion is the way to go. I said the law should not be changed to accomodate religion. This country separates church and state. State = completely secular governing body. Church = completely spiritual governing body. If we make a law banning abortion, we need to make laws that allow for cutting hands off of shoplifters and stoning adulterers to accomodate Islamic law. This isn't the vatican we live in, it's America. The best that anyone can do to prevent abortion is help the women, not get up in their face and tell them they don't own the baby that's growing in their womb.

reply from: AshMarie88

And Called, the best anyone can do to prevent abortion is also not bring up abortion first thing to women and send them right to the local Planned Parenthood and tell them abortion is a great choice to make that will help them.

reply from: Called2Action

This is why I believe that men who use women need to be castrated or have their testicles nailed to a roughed up piece of plywood. Maybe it would be a better approach to start punishing men who impregnate women outside of marriage or willful consent, then abortion wouldn't be a problem. Women wouldn't have babies to abort in the first place.
Of course this is a stretch, because American laws are made such that men are protected from cruel and unusual punishment for their actions, whereas women are subjected to punishment by pregnancy, which is cruel and unusual all 9 months.

reply from: faithman

Alright, then. Abortion kills human life, and so can giving birth. Pointing at one side and calling them stupid doesn't make you look any smarter. The difference between Hitler and Pro-Choicers is that Hitler killed Jews just because he didn't like them living in Germany (or any other state he claimed for that matter). Pro-Choicers don't kill at all; they simply want registered citizens of the United States to have the rights promised to them by the constitution. Freedom of choice.
Hey stupid!!! The constitution does not give women the right to kill the womb child. As a matter of fact the constitution protects the womb child, and it is Roe itself that is unconstitutional. 40 words into the document is the word posterity. That means future generations. So tell your punk mouth death magot lies else where. No where in the constitution does it say you can kill a child, whether in private or not.

reply from: Called2Action

That tears it. How old are you exactly? Is "womb child" your hippie nickname for babies?
By the standards of secular law, a baby isn't a baby until it is a citizen, born and documented. That's why it's called murder once it has left the vagina. Ever wonder why women get "partial-birth" abortions? Because they are within legal confines if it happens while it is inside their body. Nobody in their right mind would cut up a baby once it has left the vagina. It all happens inside the birth canal. I'm not saying it's right and wonderful, but that's just the way the law works.
Again I say it, If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Plain and simple.

reply from: yoda

Thank you so much. You truly are an understanding and loving person.
She's also a major proabort liar, and you are PROCHOICE/PROABORTION according to the major dictionaries. Do these not fit your position?
pro-choice adjective advocating access to legal abortion: advocating open legal access to voluntary abortion http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/pro-choice.html

pro-a·bor·tion adjective - favoring legal access to abortion: in favor of open legal access to voluntary abortion http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861736813
pro-abortion SYLLABICATION: pro-a·bor·tion PRONUNCIATION: pr-bôrshn ADJECTIVE: Favoring or supporting legalized abortion. http://www.bartleby.com/61/27/P0572700.html

We've seen this pattern before, someone comes here claiming to be prolife, and then they snuggle up to the proaborts and jump all over the prolifers.
We are not impressed one bit. If you want to debate here, have at it... just don't expect us to consider you to be on "our side".
:

reply from: yoda

First, grow a heart, and then you might be worth "arguing with".
As it stands now, you are giving nothing but lip service to the unborn, while helping the proaborts to hold the gates to the abortuaries (legally) wide open.
Drop the pretense, and we can debate abortion. And get off your females only high horse while you're at it.... fathers are the protectors of the family, and they have just as much right to defend unborn babies as any woman.
But hey, you say you're a woman, and you're not even trying to protect them. What does that tell you?

reply from: faithman

That tears it. How old are you exactly? Is "womb child" your hippie nickname for babies?
By the standards of secular law, a baby isn't a baby until it is a citizen, born and documented. That's why it's called murder once it has left the vagina. Ever wonder why women get "partial-birth" abortions? Because they are within legal confines if it happens while it is inside their body. Nobody in their right mind would cut up a baby once it has left the vagina. It all happens inside the birth canal. I'm not saying it's right and wonderful, but that's just the way the law works.
Again I say it, If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Plain and simple.
And I say you are a stupid little pro-death apostate scanc who couldn,t pour pee out a boot if the instructions was soul leather. Bad law does not a constitution make. Roe is bad law, as it was not passed by the legislature, nor signed into law by a president. Roe is a violation of constitutional prosess just like dred scott. It takes an act of congress to straighten this out, but we got gutless wounders who ignore the constitution, and we have idiots like you who keep telling borthead lies like it was the gospel. Tell us o great wise one, where in the constitution does it say a woman has the right to kill a womb child? The court actually said it was ambiguous as to when personhood begins [once again ignoring the pre-amble] and that if congress ever established the personhood of the womb child roe colapses. So it takes some one in their right mind to suck the brains out of a child while being held in the birth cannal against nature? I think it is even more insane to turn a child breach
[thus endangering the mothers health and life] then sucking the womb child's brains out so killer mom can make it to the concert on time. Like I say, you need to grow a brain, or did you survive a partial birth abortion, and they just shoved planned parenthood literature into you cleaned out skull?

reply from: yoda

And you have the nerve to tell us that you don't realize that you are PROCHOICE???? Who are you, really? Which proabort has trolled here under your name?
Your act is wearing a bit thin here, C2A.
Oh, btw, in what article of the constitution is abortion mentioned? Or even the fictional "Freedom of Choice"?
Come on, you're on a roll now.... which article contains those words?

reply from: yoda

Fine. I'm agnostic, so I'm sure you won't mind if I do everything I can to outlaw elective abortion, right? You say you'll even help me, right?
Prolifers do not need to quote their scriptures to tell you why it's wrong to electively kill an unborn baby.... nor do I.

reply from: Called2Action

You know what? You're right. Let's save all the babies. Let's make abortion completely illegal. How exactly should the women who abort their children illegally be punished, comrade?

reply from: yoda

Come on, tell us which regular proabort you actually are, trolling here under a new name. Is that you, vexing? Or you, lolita? Come on, let us in on your little "joke".
Oh btw, there are NO LAWS anywhere int eh United States that define the word "baby", you lying proabort scumbag!!
fetus: The name given to a growing baby after eight weeks of development; before eight weeks, the developing baby is called an embryo. http://www.babycentre.co.uk/glossary/F.html
AllWords.com fetus noun
1. (embryology) An unborn or unhatched vertebrate showing signs of the mature animal.
2. (embryology) An unborn baby after the 7th week of gestation.
http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=Fetus&goquery=Find+it%21&Language=ENG

MSN-Encarta Online:ba·by noun (plural ba·bies) 2. unborn child: a child that is still in the womb http://dictionary.msn.com/find/entry.asp?search=baby
Dictionary.com ba·by (bb) n. pl. ba·bies 2. An unborn child; a fetus. http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=baby
iNFOPLEASE.com ba.by pronunciation: (bA'bE), -n. 5. a human fetus. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0330371.html
Ah, the constant refrain of the baby killer...... is that you, kay?

reply from: Called2Action

I have instructions for you to follow if you want to get abortion banned for good.
1. Pay attention in English class. "And I say you are a stupid little pro-death apostate scanc who couldn,t pour pee out a boot if the instructions was soul leather" This sentence makes no sense whatsoever, and your punctuation is poor. You need to work on that.
2. Stop categorizing women who DO have abortions as people who go to concerts.
3. Sit in with a Kindergarten class and learn some manners.
4. Entertain a thought without accepting it; this is a mark of a truly intelligent person.

reply from: faithman

You know what? You're right. Let's save all the babies. Let's make abortion completely illegal. How exactly should the women who abort their children illegally be punished, comrade?
The same as a mother who drowns a child in the bath tube heir hitleress.

reply from: faithman

I have instructions for you to follow if you want to get abortion banned for good.
1. Pay attention in English class. "And I say you are a stupid little pro-death apostate scanc who couldn,t pour pee out a boot if the instructions was soul leather" This sentence makes no sense whatsoever, and your punctuation is poor. You need to work on that.
2. Stop categorizing women who DO have abortions as people who go to concerts.
3. Sit in with a Kindergarten class and learn some manners.
4. Entertain a thought without accepting it; this is a mark of a truly intelligent person.
....and you could save us the trouble, and hang yourself on the nearest lamp post. Of course you need to save a spot for an abortionist.

reply from: Called2Action

Actually, i'm not any of them. That's very mature of you, calling me a scumbag. That'll really win my heart over to your side. Don't turn into faithman on me, because all he ever manages to do is stop making a point and start calling names. I had hope that you were more mature than he was; don't prove me wrong.

reply from: Called2Action

...and how exactly is a mother who drowns a child in the bath tub punished? Death sentence? Life in prison? Freed on account of temporary insanity?

reply from: nsanford

That is quite possibly that dumbest thing I've heard on this board in a while. That must be sarcasm. Are you suggesting that abortion is the fault of men only?
Again, I hope this is sarcasm. Since when is pregnancy cruel and unusual. Did I miss something in my anatomy classes?

reply from: jujujellybean

I'm married, sweetheart. The birth control was not to prevent pregnancy, it's because I have a mild case of endometriosis. If you've never heard of it, it causes extremely painful periods twice as often as you have them. Using birth control to control birth is different than using it as a medication. Even the church says that, believe me, I asked my priest.
That's nice you're married. You didn't really answer that though.... You did a very good job of implying that u used BC for something else. "I use birth control...." coming on a pro life forum and strutting it, it's no wonder why I thought that.
I didn't say abortion is the way to go. I said the law should not be changed to accomodate religion. This country separates church and state. State = completely secular governing body. Church = completely spiritual governing body. If we make a law banning abortion, we need to make laws that allow for cutting hands off of shoplifters and stoning adulterers to accomodate Islamic law. This isn't the vatican we live in, it's America. The best that anyone can do to prevent abortion is help the women, not get up in their face and tell them they don't own the baby that's growing in their womb.
Really? You are supporting it and wouldn't mind if a woman DID go that way...
BTW it isn't just a religious issue. Some people on here aren't religious at all. Why are you implying all pro lifers are religious? That's like claiming all choicers are atheists. Seriously, that whole thing about the church is stupid because abortion isn't a church issue but it concerns the church because of the belief systems of the faith. We wouldn't be changing the law because of religion! We would be changing it because it would stop the killing of babies. Really, that was dumb.
Sure it is. That's why the church is doing it. When did anyone get in anyone's face? Just because we give them facts doesn't mean we're rude. Though lots of choicers think facts are rude because they contradict what they believe.
Also, I brought up the whole thing because you call yourself Catholic yet don't think we should try to stop abortion. If you are going to be Catholic, be Catholic. Like I said, if our teachings aren't good enough for you, neither is the church. Have you talked to your priest about what he believes on abortion? You should.

reply from: joe

The religion Vexing follows.

reply from: lukesmom

If I was a proabort, I would be soooo embarrassed by these two uninformed and uneducated idiots. Glad to have them embarressing the other side!

reply from: faithman

The religion Vexing follows.
NNNNAAAAA. Just a flash back from a bad trip. Oh but maybe that is her religion? ....and she calls us insane? Gotta love it....

reply from: faithman

...and how exactly is a mother who drowns a child in the bath tub punished? Death sentence? Life in prison? Freed on account of temporary insanity?
What ever a jury of her peers decides. It always should come down to we the people, not them the judges.

reply from: nsanford

You and your dictionaries yoda...they don't matter.

reply from: 4given

First, grow a heart, and then you might be worth "arguing with".
As it stands now, you are giving nothing but lip service to the unborn, while helping the proaborts to hold the gates to the abortuaries (legally) wide open.
Drop the pretense, and we can debate abortion. And get off your females only high horse while you're at it.... fathers are the protectors of the family, and they have just as much right to defend unborn babies as any woman.
But hey, you say you're a woman, and you're not even trying to protect them. What does that tell you?
A real man (and women) will stand up and fight for the rights of the the unborn men and women. I found an article that covers one of the issues that needs to be addressed. This was posted in a blog:
No Men? Think Again.
By Mark Crutcher President of Life Dynamics
I write this to America's pro-choice community.
It seems that a shop-worn old theme you people regurgitate from time to time is back making the rounds once more. On several radio talk shows I've done recently, I have been admonished that I have no right to be involved in the abortion issue because I am male. Some of you have even gone so far as to advocate that only female elected officials be allowed to vote on legislation that might impact abortion.
Even if we ignore your blatant sexism, I advise you to be careful what you ask for. After all, when polls are broken down by gender, they consistently find that women oppose abortion at a higher rate than men, are more opposed to government funding of abortion, are more active in the pro-life movement, and are more likely to favor banning abortion outright. In other words, if you exclude men, support for legal abortion plummets.
The reality is, the most numerous proponents of legalized abortion are men. Of course, that makes perfect sense given that men are the ones who most profit from it. That is why, with almost no exceptions, pioneers of the women's movement like Susan B. Anthony, Mattie Brinkerhoff, Sarah Norton, Emma Goldman, and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were outspoken opponents of legalized abortion. It is also true that suffragist newspapers such as Woodhull's and Claflin's Weekly, had editorial policies which openly attacked both abortion and abortionists. Even Alice Paul, the woman who wrote the original Equal Rights Amendment, considered legalized abortion to be the ultimate exploitation of women.
These early feminists saw that abortion is patronizing and paternalistic and that it doesn't free women, it devalues them. They understood that, as a practical matter, legalized abortion is nothing more than a safety net for sexually predatory and sexually irresponsible men. And if the last 35 years have proven nothing else, they have proven that these women hit that nail on the head. It is now clear that the legalization of abortion, and the willingness of women to submit to it, are the two greatest gifts these kind of men have ever received.
If you want to see that played out in the real world, stand in front of an abortion clinic on a day when pro-lifers are there trying to offer women alternatives to having their babies killed. What you will quickly discover is that the most vicious and violent reactions they get are not from these women, but from the men who are dragging them in by the elbows. The fact is, regardless of what you think about the abortion issue, you would have to be a certifiable idiot to think that women are the ones who profit from putting their feet in the abortion industry's stirrups. On the other hand, you can be certain that every man who ever put a woman in that position was fully aware of whose interests were being served.
Now if your point is that men should be excluded simply because we can't get pregnant, let me ask you about women who can't get pregnant. Is it your view that the only women who should be allowed to have an opinion about abortion are those who are (a) fertile and still in their child-bearing years, (b) sexually active with males, and (c) not practicing birth control? If so, that is going to thin your herd even further.
I have also noticed that those of you who take this "no men allowed" approach, always seem to have an exception for pro-choice men. For example, I have never heard one of you tell that paragon of respect for women, Bill Clinton, to keep out of the abortion issue. Neither do you ever argue that the 1973 Supreme Court had no right to be involved in the Roe vs. Wade decision, despite the fact every member was male. You don't even seem to mind that the overwhelming majority of abortionists who make their fortunes off women are men, and you never say anything about the male "escorts" who work at the abortion mills. You don't even say anything about men who force women to have abortions. Evidently, the only men for whom you have contempt, and the only men you want censored, are those who think women deserve better than abortion.
My final point is one that I do not expect you to understand, but I'm going to make it anyway. Men do not merely have a right to speak out against abortion, we have a responsibility to do so. Real men do not just stand around with their hands in their pockets while people like you slaughter helpless children by the millions. So you may as well get used to the fact that, as long as your death camps are churning out dead bodies, many of the people fighting you will be men.

reply from: joe

The religion Vexing follows.
NNNNAAAAA. Just a flash back from a bad trip. Oh but maybe that is her religion? ....and she calls us insane? Gotta love it....
She has got to lay off it. Vexing...we worry about you...please stop before you hurt yourself.

reply from: TraderTif

I would agree with those who pointed out that "pro-choice Catholic" is a contradiction in terms.
To be Catholic automatically means that you cannot be pro-choice. To be pro-choice automatically means that you cannot be Catholic.
Calling yourself a "pro-choice Catholic" is like calling yourself a "meat-eating vegetarian"; it doesn't work.

reply from: 4061312

I DONT KNOW IF IAM PRO-LIFE OR PRO-CHOICE CAUSE AT A YOUNG AGE I WAS FORCED TO GET AN ABORTION BY MY MOTHER, AND IT HAS BEEN A BIG PROBLEM FOR ME EVERY SINCE .I STILL GO THROUGH DAYS WHERE I DONT WANT TO LOOK MY MOM IN THE FACE, AND THERE BE TIMES I LOOK AT MY TWO KIDS AND RUN IN THE BATHROOM AND CRY THINKING WHAT IF IT WAS ONE OF THEM I WOULD OF MURDER. THAN I HAD ANOTHER CLOSE YOUNG FAMILY MEMBER, (WHICH WAS AROUND THE SAME AGE I WAS WHEN I HAD MY ABORTION).HER MOM HAD DIED, HER DADDY WAS ON DRUG ,AND HER GRANDMOTHER PUT HER OUT ANYTIME SHE FELT LIKE IT .AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF SHE WAS HAVING AN OLDER MANS BABY .THE MAN HAD A WIFE AND KIDS AT HOME SO HE OFTER TO PAY FOR AN ABORTION AND I AGREED TO GO WITH HER IF THAT WAS SOMETHING SHE WANTED TO DO. SO I DONT KNOW WHAT I AM. ALL I KNOW IS I DO FEEL THAT THE BABY HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE, BUT WHAT CHANCES IS THIS BABY GOING TO HAVE COMING UP IN A DRAMA FILLED LIFE DADDY A CHEAT AND HIS MOTHER A WHORE. AND I KNOW THE FIRST THING EVERYBODY SAY IS GIVE IT UP AND THERE IS ONE THING I WANT TO SAY ABOUT THAT "WATCH THE NEWS!"

reply from: Called2Action

Seriously guys. Stop trying to tell me what my religion is. Get up out of my face. I don't run chest-to-chest with you guys and scream my beliefs down your throats. This forum can be so emo sometimes. If you think you're that much better of a Catholic than I am, go tell your church how wonderful you are. I'm sure they'll sing your praises and you will receive your earthly reward.
For the record, I will ask my priest what he thinks of me and my beliefs. I'll work from there.
It would be a wonderful world if people didn't call others names. So far i've discovered that I am a stupid, idiotic, human slaying piece of crap. Anything else you'd like to add to that? Is slandering part of your pro-life efforts? I've never spoken with pro-lifers before you guys, and what i've learned so far is that they are very harsh and unloving people for how much they "love" life.

reply from: joe

That is a perfect description of anyone advocating the killing of innocent human life. The murderer deserves no respect.

reply from: Called2Action

You're right. You'll always be right, in your mind at least.

reply from: lukesmom

I am not telling you what your religion is, I am telling you what it is not. I could care less about your religion. This is not a religious board, it IS a prolife board. You have come here supposably as a newby but make the statement that "this forum can be so emo sometimes" like you have been here awhile. What is THAT all about. I am thinking you are a regular trolling. Talking about "emo", you come here assuming you know all about prolifers being on their "high thrones", although you say you have never spoken with prolifere. Hard to believe if you actually attend a Catholic Church. You come here and insult our intellegence, you haven't done your homework and use the same old tired proabort rhetoric.
I am coming to the conclusion that you are one of the regular proaborts trolling under another name...although Skippy and Kay would be too intellegent to be caught in some of the stupid contradictory statements you have made. Either way, you are a proabort, a murderer or assessory to murder of the unborn. You live a lie if you present yourself as anything else, but wait... that is what you are doing when you call yourself Catholic...

reply from: Called2Action

Again with the slandering. You're not the one who gets to judge whether i'm Catholic or not, get that straight in your head. You are not my judge, only God. So get out of His seat.
I got on this forum to hear and question the pro-life side of the argument, not to be slapped around and preached to. What is this, high school? Like I said before, one must entertain a thought while not accepting it as their own to create a good argument. All i'm getting here is a bunch of dreck about "Baby this, womb child that, the baby, what about the baby's life?, you're a cold blooded murderer, you are going to hell." I'd like some political views too.
How does your theory work, that abortion is made illegal in America? How will it change the way things are done?
Even more importantly, I can see what you mean when you say that abortion is satan's gift to the irresponsible man. That is true. Problem is, to congress, satan has nothing to do with anything. They won't buy that banning abortion will solve any problems this country is facing.

reply from: 4given

Truth is, I really don't think there is anyone here that cares what you call yourself, who you claim to be, or about any opinion you have to offer up. I know I don't. You advocate the destruction of innocent life. That is all I need to know about you. Your spill of words has been cleaned up before. Many of us are tired of the likes of you and your ill-regard for life. What are your reasons for posting here? Did you not think we had enough examples of what your side and kind have to offer?

reply from: lukesmom

I am not "sitting in His seat" and certainly leave the job of judging to Him and to each individual person. I wonder about YOUR judging and YOUR blaming and wonder what your story is. I am not hearing questions but instead blame, 1st the "church" and specifically the Catholic Church is to blame for the abortion rate, then it was men in particular, then prolifers, oh, I forgot about the insurance companies. The only people you haven't blamed have been proaborts themselves, ie: abortion providers, parents who abort, supposed loved ones who force abortion, and abortion supportors such as yourself. Have you had an abortion that you are trying to forgive yourself for? Before you try to find forgiveness from others you actually have to forgive yourself and that means owning up to some hard truths, not blaming others for your actions. If I am wrong in this assumption, forgive me but I do get a feeling about you.
May God give you the peace you seek but first you must ask.

reply from: yoda

The truth NEVER matters to a liar, ns.
So go on, tell all your nasty lies about the common everyday words we all use and understand, and I'll just keep on posting the truth. What else is new?

reply from: yoda

Oh geez.... somewhere along the way you FORGOT what you were "here for", and started preaching the "gospel of baby killing", didn't you?
What a shame, you could've learned so much if you'd just kept your big mouth shut.....

reply from: 4given

Punctuation matters not. The truth is that you advocate death. Life and death are the same in any language. You speak the language of death unter the pretense of choice. That is what matters.
Maybe a little research would help you. This is in reference to a famous case where women were given late term abortions for reasons like "wanting to go to sporting events" and also one case in particular, where a late term abortion was performed on a woman that wanted to go to a rock concert. Point is, abortion is typically done for selfish reasons. You advocate just that.
Do you seriously think for a moment that you are in a position to demand respect from anyone here? Respect is earned. You certainly won't achieve that by coming here spitting your proabort poison and insults towards the members that post here.
We entertain the thought many times actually. The thought of the babies, every 24 seconds, killed by an abortionist. We have all thought of what that must be like to have our life end so violently and selfishly. And you are right. We won't accept that. We won't accept people like you coming here and telling us that it is a woman's right to have such a heinous act committed on the future men and women of this nation. I suggest you educate yourself about abortion, rather than spewing proabort propaganda.

reply from: nsanford

Dictionaries don't change reality. You really think you're going to convince anyone with a book?
I thought your goal was to stop abortion, not prove that your using the right vocabulary.

reply from: jujujellybean

CTA, PLEASE respond to my post. I am begging you...

reply from: proud2be4life

I am not Catholic, but I do know that Real Catholics are very Pro-life and not wishy washy. There are prolife for all cases. I personally used to be prochoice until I started to look at the facts, and yes I did my research on this issue. When I saw a real abortion on Utube I was in shock that this could be happening. The only reason it is still going on is because many pro-choicers are whinning, "its my body", but in reality, we all know its not your body- The baby has completely different DNA from you. I am not downing you if you are pro-choice. I am only stating that you should get the facts. Nor am I going to bring up religion, because most people think that we prolifers are all religious and it's a religion thing. No its not. I believe that every child should have a life. Get the facts from both sides, look at the pictures of aborted babies, talk to women who have had abortions, do your research from both sides. I always tell people to hear both sides of the story. But in reality we all know abortion stops a beating heart!

reply from: xnavy

i am not catholic either, my church is penticostal and people that geniune love Jesus are prolife.

reply from: 4given

Good advice. Welcome to the forum Proud2be4life.

reply from: jujujellybean

yes, seriously debra. That is why the church is against it. Because it directly goes against Christ!

reply from: Called2Action

I'm sorry jj, I can't remember which one that was. Could you re-post it with this message as the quote? Thx

reply from: Called2Action

It wasn't I that had the abortion, but a friend. Do you want to know what is so sad about it? She was 14. Not old enough to be a parent (or to have sex for that matter), but she made a mistake. Her mother forced her to get an abortion, telling her she would have her kitten euthanized if she didn't. The poor girl didn't have anyone to turn to for help, because she didn't know how to get it. Her mother bribed her into aborting instead of giving it up for adoption. There's a lot of reasons people get abortions, and this is one of them. She didn't have the resources to know what she was doing.
I really don't like advocating the killing of babies, guys. I'm trying to conceive for myself. I just don't think it's right to make it a law to not be able to have an abortion, I only believe that if someone actually (under a rare circumstance) needs one, they shouldn't have to do it with a coat hanger. There should be hardcore restrictions on who can have an abortion, and when it can be performed. I really don't like the idea of a three month old baby being torn out.
I just can't be completely pro-life, guys. It hurts me too much to think of what effects it will have on families who simply couldn't handle losing thier mother because she got pregnant and will die if she carries the baby. Besides, that is such a rare instance that it wouldn't even be a statistic.

reply from: jujujellybean

I'm married, sweetheart. The birth control was not to prevent pregnancy, it's because I have a mild case of endometriosis. If you've never heard of it, it causes extremely painful periods twice as often as you have them. Using birth control to control birth is different than using it as a medication. Even the church says that, believe me, I asked my priest.
That's nice you're married. You didn't really answer that though.... You did a very good job of implying that u used BC for something else. "I use birth control...." coming on a pro life forum and strutting it, it's no wonder why I thought that.
I didn't say abortion is the way to go. I said the law should not be changed to accomodate religion. This country separates church and state. State = completely secular governing body. Church = completely spiritual governing body. If we make a law banning abortion, we need to make laws that allow for cutting hands off of shoplifters and stoning adulterers to accomodate Islamic law. This isn't the vatican we live in, it's America. The best that anyone can do to prevent abortion is help the women, not get up in their face and tell them they don't own the baby that's growing in their womb.
Really? You are supporting it and wouldn't mind if a woman DID go that way...
BTW it isn't just a religious issue. Some people on here aren't religious at all. Why are you implying all pro lifers are religious? That's like claiming all choicers are atheists. Seriously, that whole thing about the church is stupid because abortion isn't a church issue but it concerns the church because of the belief systems of the faith. We wouldn't be changing the law because of religion! We would be changing it because it would stop the killing of babies. Really, that was dumb.
Sure it is. That's why the church is doing it. When did anyone get in anyone's face? Just because we give them facts doesn't mean we're rude. Though lots of choicers think facts are rude because they contradict what they believe.
Also, I brought up the whole thing because you call yourself Catholic yet don't think we should try to stop abortion. If you are going to be Catholic, be Catholic. Like I said, if our teachings aren't good enough for you, neither is the church. Have you talked to your priest about what he believes on abortion? You should.
This is the one...sorry if it wasn't sticking out enough. thanks!

reply from: jujujellybean

I don't remember what post this was, but here's my response.
Please don't complain about calling names. You obviously haven't seen Vexing's horrid posts. I was called so many things I forgot some of them I do remember stupid, nieve, spoiled little brat, pig headed weirdo, dense, I am fill her box with cretinous trash, I am apparently full of irrational hatred, soft, dumb, the list is endless. Those were in ONE STINKING PM. Plus the slur of cussing that she entertains is saddening. She called my friend a fwording girl dog. How nice is that? And Kay told her that if she was offended by a little cussing, she was soft. Great. Now we can't even feel emotion when offended.
Just showing you that lifers really aren't to bad with words considering some things we put up with from the choicers.

reply from: Called2Action

This is the one...sorry if it wasn't sticking out enough. thanks!
I'm not saying that all pro-lifers are religious, just the vast majority. If they were godless, they wouldn't be very likely to care if someone killed a fetus.
I'm off the birth control though, because I want to get pregnant. I can handle some painful periods if it means I can have my own little snuggle pie.

reply from: 4given

That is really sad. It sounds to me like you never really were able to think it out. Trust me, you are not alone. You don't have to suffer alone either. There are so many women that can relate to you and that fateful day. Until you come to the reality of it all, which you have expressed acknowledgment, you won't be able to begin to heal. I don't think an abortion is something anyone can truly get over. You can move on with your life once you admit that it was a sin, it was a mistake and you need to be forgiven and cleansed. I don't know if your mother really understood abortion either. Many aren't aware. The pictures help bring it to the light. It helps to talk to others about it. I trust that because you found your way here, you are at the point of acceptance. There is no such thing as coincidence in my opinion. I feel you are in a position where you could help guide women to the truth. Because of what you have been through, you may be able to save other children from such a violent end. Not only that, you certainly will be able to lead women to the truth, so they don't have to suffer the pain and regret you have carried. Do your research. there are plenty of pictures and information. There are people that have been through what you have. They can help you through it as well. I will pray for you in Jesus Name. I ask that He leads you into His will for your life. Please God take this pain and regret and anger. Fill her with the power of Your love. Help her to trust You. Bless her with a desire to know You. I lift up her mother as well. I pray that she will be brought to the reality of what she allowed. Open their eyes to the abortion truth Lord. Open their hearts to the healing You want to bless them with. Keep calling on them Lord. I plead Your blood over the sins of the household. Awaken their conscience. Give them hope and peace. All in Your Precious and Holy Name, Amen.
I don't know what "watch the news" has to do with bringing a child into this world. Many families want to adopt. Many organizations are available to help women such as her. As you stated, every child has a right to live. That right happens the moment the miracle of conception takes place. She may have felt in her mind that the situation made an abortion justifiable. I am sure if she understood the facts, her heart would have told her differently. Babies change people. More often than not for the better. If only abortions were done on invisible wombs. See the pictures. Read about the procedures. Encourage responsible behavior and attitude towards sex. Although the picture you painted sounds quite toxic, her abortion may come back to her detriment. Often times, years go by with the same bad choices. I realized recently that my sister, now in her 40's, is still repeating the same poor choices, with the same toxic outcome. I know that she is still living through the guilt of her abortion. She was never the same afterwards. Both situations, you described are sad. The sad thing is how common both situations are.

reply from: jujujellybean

Really? No, I don't think so. You say killing a fetus just like a pro abort, BTW, like it doens't matter. Does the word baby bother you like it does them?
But back to the point, Killing a fetus is also killing a baby, and that's why people are pro life, because it kills an innocent life. People aren't pro life because of religion; they are pro life because they see something wrong with killing innocent children for any reason.

reply from: yoda

Ah, the dictionary hater replies.........
Nothing changes reality, does it? But you extreme proabort revisionists do try to change reality, by posting lies about the meaning of common, everyday words like "baby" and "child".... and then you get your shorts all in a wad when I post the actual truth about those words in the form of a linked definition.
What a sad, but perfect example of the proabort mentality..... "Believe our lies about these words, and attack anyone who tries to refute our lies by posting the dictionary truth!"
Yeah, you're fine with you and your fellow proaborts telling lots of lies about words, but you just can't stand it when I post the truth, can you ns?

reply from: yoda

That's really all one needs to believe to be prolife, isn't it?
Welcome to the forum, proud2be4life.

reply from: yoda

NO STATE in the US has EVER had a law preventing abortion in the event of a genuine threat to the life of a mother, and NO PRO-LIFER that I know of is suggesting any such law.
You are simply pretending to be prolife, there's no way anyone who truly cared about the unborn could be as deceitful as you have been here in promoting the killing of unborn babies..
p.s. I don't expect you to respond to the first paragraph, I'm sure you'll just have another hissy fit over the word "deceitful" and ignore the rest, as is your usual habit. So have at it.

reply from: Called2Action

Dude, calm down. You are so quick to the throat. I didn't even know that pro lifers were okay with saving the mother's life if the baby had to be killed. That's what I came on here to figure out! I wanted to see exactly what pro-lifers believed, not just hear that killing babies is wrong. I could have told you that one.
I always had the impression that you were among the mature members of this forum. You're really giving me reasons to believe otherwise. I've never seen anyone spew out so much hatred so fast.

reply from: xnavy

the real life position the way i see it, if the baby has to be removed to save the mother that is fine. but we prefer that after the baby is
removed that the doctor try to save both baby and mother not deliverately kill the baby, if the baby dies as a result , that is sad but we
do not advocate the deliverate killing of the baby .

reply from: yoda

No you didn't. You came here to PREACH the proabort gospel to us....... you DIDN'T ASK us what we thought about ANYTHING, you just jumped right into TELLING US WHY WE WERE WRONG!!
You've done nothing but lie since the first day you came here, so don't start playing innocent on us now......

reply from: yoda

Exactly, and any one of the prolifers here could've told her that.... IF she had asked.
But did you notice that she didn't ask... she just "assumed"?

reply from: Called2Action

You're trying to fan flames here, aren't you? I see the game you're playing. You're thinking, "Perhaps if I keep stabbing at her older comments and make her look like a lying sack of crap, nobody will listen to her! Maybe we won't have to agree with her on anything either...that would just make her look better than me."
Stop saying "us" like the whole forum agrees with everything you say.

reply from: faithman

You're trying to fan flames here, aren't you? I see the game you're playing. You're thinking, "Perhaps if I keep stabbing at her older comments and make her look like a lying sack of crap, nobody will listen to her! Maybe we won't have to agree with her on anything either...that would just make her look better than me."
Stop saying "us" like the whole forum agrees with everything you say.
You have to stoke a pretty good fire to burn lying sacks of crap. Fan on yoda!!!! Fan on!!!!

reply from: 4given

That is odd. Considering you joined a few days ago. Maybe we would know you better by a different name? How did you find the forum?

reply from: yoda

"Older comments"? How long have you been making comments here?
Oh, btw.... NO ONE can make you look like that except YOU.

reply from: faithman

"Older comments"? How long have you been making comments here?
Oh, btw.... NO ONE can make you look like that except YOU.
You have to stoke a pretty good fire to burn lying sacks of crap. Fan on yoda!!!! Fan on!!!!

reply from: lukesmom

exactly what I was thinking 4given and this isn't her first questionable statement either.
C2A-If you come here and ask questions respectfully no one minds answering respectfully. But if you come here, as you did, making assumptions and accusations, you are likely to get burned by your own fire. I, at one time, went to a proabortion site to ask questions and learn. It was right after my son's death and I was doing some personal "digging". I was respectful and sincere and was attacked dispite this. This board does not do that UNLESS the poster comes here to attack.
Please play nice. You will by really suprised how nice we can be.
If you want to know the hows and whys of being prolife, do your homework and start reading old and new posts. Let it sink in, google what you need to and then come back and ask intellegent, informed questions. No one minds answering those.

reply from: ladybug

Wow, well it definantly has been a while since I've been on this website, but you Miss Called2Action have me so fired up, I figured I would stay up a little while and reply to your hypocrytical topic. However, we do have something in common, we're Catholic!! Now as a Catholic, you should know it is against your beliefs (or ours) to take Birth control... so..there is one strike against you. And as abc123 also said, your body is not your own, it's Gods. I haven't read anyone else's posts, and for good reason. One, I dont have the time tonight, but also I want to just say whats on my mind without the influence of others. You ask us what would we do if we were raped, and guess what? I would have the baby and if made me that upset to keep him/her, I would give him/her up for adoption. I wouldn't kill a child because I was a victim. Can you honestly justify killing a child????? Ok here's a scenerio that's been brought up multiple times: ok it's my own body and I want to cut myself, and I want to burn myself....and I want to cut off my own arm because I dont like it there anymore. Yeah you'd be freakin locked up in the nuthouse.... but WHY??? its your own body you should be able to do what you want do you see how dumb your arguement sounds? You are just the type of person that gives catholics and all religious people bad names. Please, for your sake and mine, dont EVER EVER EVER tell ANYONE you're catholic again. Just tell them you believe in God and you are nondenominational. Geez you just freakin piss me off saying that!!! Did you ever sing that song "children of the Lord" ........ is any of this getting through to you? you're a freakin moron and God rest your soul on your judgement day
...... alright, maybe next post I wont be so vicious....

reply from: jujujellybean

I understand your anger Ladybug. I too am a Catholic, and it angers me that people will claim they are Catholic and then disregard all of the church's teachings! I mean seriously, when a Catholic, do as the Catholics do and FOLLOW THE CATECHISM!

reply from: GratiaPlena

I agree with ladybug and juju...
We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
If you're going to sit there and profess faithfulness to the church, then I suggest you start following Her teachings. If you don't want to do that, become Episcopalian. Yeesh.

reply from: GratiaPlena

I agree with ladybug and juju...
We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
If you're going to sit there and profess faithfulness to the church, then I suggest you start following Her teachings. If you don't want to do that, become Episcopalian. Yeesh.

reply from: ProInformed

Dude, calm down. You are so quick to the throat. I didn't even know that pro lifers were okay with saving the mother's life if the baby had to be killed. That's what I came on here to figure out! I wanted to see exactly what pro-lifers believed, not just hear that killing babies is wrong. I could have told you that one.
I always had the impression that you were among the mature members of this forum. You're really giving me reasons to believe otherwise. I've never seen anyone spew out so much hatred so fast.
Actually, you came here with an obvious agenda to criticize the pro-life POV, pretending to know what that POV was, and to have arrived at a superior POV yourself. Most of what you've posted is typical pro-abort rhetoric, based on your faith in biased sources of abortion info (the media and the abortion industry PR). It comes as no surprise that you didn't even know that the pro-life movement is not about sacrificing the lives of mothers in order to save babies.
If you truly are interested in learning what pro-lifers really do believe (versus the lies and stereotypes pro-aborts have told you about pro-lifers) then I suggest you stop chanting pro-abort arguments and accusations and instead focus on learning all you can about abortion, the pro-life movement, and the abortion industry from as many sources as possible.

reply from: ProInformed

"
Pro-Informed:
OK... that was a major negative assumption... no doubt based on your own confusion from believing negative stereotypes the abortion industry and biased media has fed you! Why would you presume that I have never considered what it would be like to be raped? I have given much thought to what I would do if I became pregnant because of rape. I would certainly not kill MY innocent baby or pretend that because the biological father is a rapist that paternity therefore trumps both maternity and the life of my baby! MY baby would still deserve and get my love and protection. I have five sisters, who like myself all used to be pro-abortion, but now only two are still pro-abort. Even my sister who had an abortion because she was impregnanted by a rapist is now pro-life. I also have three daughters and they say if they were raped and became pregnant they would not kill their baby. Your assumption that pro-lifers just haven't thought about that possibility is just plain dumb.
Also, you apparently are unaware that many pro-lifers favor access to legalized abortion in cases of rape, indicating that you are not very well-informed.
Don't chastise us about our supposedly being high on our perfect little thrones when you are so blatantly wagging your finger at us from your presumptious perch. Get real yourself - starting with laying aside all your little snide remarks, unflattering false assumptions, and ignorance. First step: LEARN.
I favor giving the citizens the right to choose the legal status of abortion, knowing that would most likely mean some babies will still be killed because of the rape exception. Do you favor giving the citizens the right to choose the legal status of abortion even though that would mean killing babies as a means of birth control would most likely be stopped?

reply from: ProInformed

hmmm.... where did 'Call2Action' disappear to?
another chant & run (before you learn anything that might challenge your current POV)?
or another change your posting name to pretend to be yet another 'new' choicer poster?
'Called2Action'? LOL hardly... just the same old lame myths minus the courage to actually learn first, adjust your POV accordingly, and THEN act.

reply from: yoda

Hey, you're starting to catch on..........
I've seen proaborts on other forums talk openly about "invading" some prolife forum together. So if they'll say that openly, I'm sure there's a lot of planning that goes on behind the scenes...... like who will pay the "good guy" and who will play the "bad guy"...... and there are some really, really nasty proabort characters out there who will go to any lengths to try to "pwn" forums like this. I'm like you, I suspect that the departure of ole vexxy is simply the ending of one attack mode, and the beginning of another.

reply from: Faramir

Hey, you're starting to catch on..........
I've seen proaborts on other forums talk openly about "invading" some prolife forum together. So if they'll say that openly, I'm sure there's a lot of planning that goes on behind the scenes...... like who will pay the "good guy" and who will play the "bad guy"...... and there are some really, really nasty proabort characters out there who will go to any lengths to try to "pwn" forums like this. I'm like you, I suspect that the departure of ole vexxy is simply the ending of one attack mode, and the beginning of another.
At least regarding the board she came from, you've got nothing to worry about. She just ran away like a scared chicken, and she's about the bravest one they've got. None of them can debate. They can only curse and swear at you, and they have all gravitated to a forum where there are no rules against being vile, so they are free to be themselves. When they come to real forums where civility is required, they always implode.

reply from: sander

Faramir,
Do all these other pro-aborts post under the same names at the other board?

reply from: Teresa18

Of course, we have the wonderful ignore function on this forum for when they get too vile and nasty.

reply from: RedTaintedRose

I'd use it but you psycho's are too good at the comic relief..laughter is after all the best medicine..

reply from: ProInformed

Hey, you're starting to catch on..........
I've seen proaborts on other forums talk openly about "invading" some prolife forum together. So if they'll say that openly, I'm sure there's a lot of planning that goes on behind the scenes...... like who will pay the "good guy" and who will play the "bad guy"...... and there are some really, really nasty proabort characters out there who will go to any lengths to try to "pwn" forums like this. I'm like you, I suspect that the departure of ole vexxy is simply the ending of one attack mode, and the beginning of another.
Hi Yoda,
And believe me I've known all about such choicist evasion tactics a long time because I used them myself a few decades back when I was still pro-abort. There wasn't online discussion back then of course but whenever a pro-lifer tried to say anything about abortion I would chant some stupid pro-abort lie or slogan and then insist on a change of subject before they could respond with the facts that disputed my chanted 'knowledge' and 'logic'. I didn't know that the things I said were untrue because I honestly trusted the pro-choice groups (and the media and the governement). SURELY the pro-lifers had to be the ones telling lies because what they were trying to tell me was just too disturbing to be true...
It wasn't until I inadvertantly learned some facts about fetal development and abortion-caused complications from sources other than the pro-life movement, and came out of the denial stage of Post Abortion Syndrome/Trauma (PAST) that I started to question my POV, was able to start considering what pro-lifers were saying with an open mind, and had the COURAGE to abandon the pro-abort evasion tactics.
Apparently 'Called2Action' was just another angry (scared) choicist, dutifully taking her/his turn to come here to attack and run. Some prefer to start out pretending to be well-informed, concerned about women, open-minded... but they quickly reveal their lack of courage (and their lack of genuine concern about the issues they exploit as excuses to defend abortion). They are simply too scared to stick around and actually risk learning something. Insult and retreat is the name of their sissy game. No doubt they go back to their cesspool of a board to congratulate themselves on their 'courage' and 'victories' LOL.
IMHO they have about as much real courage and intellectual maturity as terrorist gangs. Real courage would require them to drop all their avoidance strategies and start their own online search for the truth about abortion. Their overdependence on false negative stereotypes of pro-lifers is pathetic. They NEED to keep believing and focusing on the pretense that pro-lifers are just violent, women-hating, religious fanatics. They HAVE TO believe that what the pro-lifers tell them is just lies and propoganda because they secretly suspect and agree that what we tell them is really happening. And to them that would be too horrible, not necessarily because they care about the women and babies, but because that would destroy the fun of the 'free sex' myth that they base their promiscuous lifestyles on.
A LOGICAL, RESPONSIBLE, and COURAGEOUS course of action would be to do their own online search for as much info as they can find about abortion and the related issues, to not take either sides word for anything, to investigate with an open-mind before forming their POV let alone before allowing themselves to be 'called to action'. There is info that can be found that is from neutral sources (or even from pro-abortion sources) that disputes the popular choicer lies, slogans, and excuses. If they don't believe what pro-lifers say then what IS their excuse for focusing on and discussing what pro-lifers claim instead of doing their own search for the truth? They sure waste a lot of time reacting to what pro-lifers say for people who claim they don't believe anything pro-lifers say... time they could be spending learning more themselves... It is not really the responsibility of pro-lifers to find and present all the relevent info for/to them. What is their excuse for not doing their own research?
IMHO the reason they neglect to do their own searches for info is because they are too scared to face the truth. They prefer to simply believe whatever the abortion industry tells them and to discredit pro-lifers BECAUSE they do NOT want to learn the truth.
Sadly too many women, while claiming to be 'feminists', lack the self-esteem to say 'no' to sex with males who don't love them; they are more concerned about being dumped for another woman who will put out than about their own (let alone their innocent baby's) safety and health. Asking them to face the truth about abortion is like asking them (in their low-self-esteem state) to give up the only way they believe they can get even the pretense of 'love' from a man.
anger is fear
and fear is death
death of the ability to be open-minded, death of the intellect, death of courage and integrity
death of the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE a well-infomed, carefully-considered POV in this very important controversy - they HAVE TO defend the abortion industry no-questions-asked, they have NO CHOICE but to reject and ridicule what pro-lifers try to tell them...
Their fear enslaves them to trust in and defense of the status quo. (BTW the abortion industry is well aware of this and has no qualms in exploiting these ignorant, terrified women.)
Their fear requires them to lash out with hatred at pro-lifers because the truth we challenge them to look at is so horrible, the lifestyle they indulge in is so addictive, and their self-respect is so low (that they don't believe any male will 'love' them if they 'withhold' sex until they are married to a man who respects and loves them).
The 'bravery' of bullies is cowardice at it's worst. The extreme hostility and offensiveness is a just a flimsy, shredded, gauzy cover for their extreme fear and defensiveness... and they actually have themselves convinced that we can't possibly see behind that sheer curtain to their sheer terror. After all, from their perspective, the cloth over their eyes is (for now) doing a pretty good job at helping them block out the truth. It must be a special kind of blindfold cloth - like those one-way mirrors or something... (One of my nieces, when she was very young, thought she could hide by merely covering her own eyes LOL) Apparently they believe that if they can prevent themselves from seeing the truth about the pro-life movement, then we likewise can't observe the truth about them and the real reasons behind their excuses for defending abortion?

reply from: sander

Pro-Informed,
If there was such as thing as a "sticky" on this board...I'd make your post the first one!

reply from: faithman

Hey, you're starting to catch on..........
I've seen proaborts on other forums talk openly about "invading" some prolife forum together. So if they'll say that openly, I'm sure there's a lot of planning that goes on behind the scenes...... like who will pay the "good guy" and who will play the "bad guy"...... and there are some really, really nasty proabort characters out there who will go to any lengths to try to "pwn" forums like this. I'm like you, I suspect that the departure of ole vexxy is simply the ending of one attack mode, and the beginning of another.
Hi Yoda,
And believe me I've known all about such choicist evasion tactics a long time because I used them myself a few decades back when I was still pro-abort. There wasn't online discussion back then of course but whenever a pro-lifer tried to say anything about abortion I would chant some stupid pro-abort lie or slogan and then insist on a change of subject before they could respond with the facts that disputed my chanted 'knowledge' and 'logic'. I didn't know that the things I said were untrue because I honestly trusted the pro-choice groups (and the media and the governement). SURELY the pro-lifers had to be the ones telling lies because what they were trying to tell me was just too disturbing to be true...
It wasn't until I inadvertantly learned some facts about fetal development and abortion-caused complications from sources other than the pro-life movement, and came out of the denial stage of Post Abortion Syndrome/Trauma (PAST) that I started to question my POV, was able to start considering what pro-lifers were saying with an open mind, and had the COURAGE to abandon the pro-abort evasion tactics.
Apparently 'Called2Action' was just another angry (scared) choicist, dutifully taking her/his turn to come here to attack and run. Some prefer to start out pretending to be well-informed, concerned about women, open-minded... but they quickly reveal their lack of courage (and their lack of genuine concern about the issues they exploit as excuses to defend abortion). They are simply too scared to stick around and actually risk learning something. Insult and retreat is the name of their sissy game. No doubt they go back to their cesspool of a board to congratulate themselves on their 'courage' and 'victories' LOL.
IMHO they have about as much real courage and intellectual maturity as terrorist gangs. Real courage would require them to drop all their avoidance strategies and start their own online search for the truth about abortion. Their overdependence on false negative stereotypes of pro-lifers is pathetic. They NEED to keep believing and focusing on the pretense that pro-lifers are just violent, women-hating, religious fanatics. They HAVE TO believe that what the pro-lifers tell them is just lies and propoganda because they secretely suspect and agree that what we tell them is really happening. And to them that would be too horrible, not necessarily because they care about the women and babies, but because that would destroy the fun of the 'free sex' myth that they base their promiscuous lifestyles on.
And sadly too many women, while claiming to be 'feminists', lack the self-esteem to say 'no' to sex with males who don't love them; they are more concerned about being dumped for another woman who will put out than about their own (let alone their innocent baby's) safety and health.
anger is fear
and fear is death
death of the ability to be open-minded, death of the intellect, death of courage and integrity
death of the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE a well-infomed, carefully-considered POV in this very important controversy - they HAVE TO defend the abortion industry no-questions-asked, they have NO CHOICE but to reject and ridicule what pro-lifers try to tell them...
Their fear enslaves them to trust in the status quo. (BTW the abortion industry is well aware of this and has no qualms in exploiting these ignorant, scared women.)
Their fear requires them to lash out with hatred at pro-lifers because the truth we challenge them to look at is so horrible, the lifestyle they indulge in is so addictive, and their self-respect is so low that they don't believe any male will 'love' them if they 'withhold' sex until they are married to a man who respects and loves them.
The 'bravery' of bullies is cowardice at it's worst. The extreme hostility and offensiveness is a shredded gauzy cover for their extreme fear and defensiveness... and they actually have themselves convinced that we can't possibly see behind that sheer curtain to their sheer terror. After all, from their perspective, the cloth over their eyes is (for now) doing a pretty good job at helping them avoid seeing the truth. It must be a special kind of blindfold cloth - like those one-way mirrors or something... (One of my nieces, when she was very young, thought she could hide by merely covering her own eyes LOL) Apparently they believe that if they can prevent themselves from seeing the truth about the pro-life movement, then we likewise can't observe the truth about them and their excuses for defending abortion?
This gets my vote as one of the best posts of all time.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, that all makes sense.
The irony that seems to escape them is that their desperate need to always change the subject betrays their total lack of confidence in their position.
I've even gone so far many times as to facetiously agree with every negative thing they're saying about myself and other prolifers, just to move the discussion back to the subject that matters to me....... but they just run away and hide. It's like they resent me for not arguing with them and defending my reputation and that of other prolifers, and not playing into their game. They usually just throw a few more random insults my way and disappear.
It's really funny on one forum where I post (eHealth) the administrators are fairly strict about insults, so I constantly see deleted posts in the threads where I'm posting. They just can't contain themselves.
How sad that human beings live that way. And how doubly sad that unborn babies pay with their lives to allow them to continue on that path.

reply from: 4given

Today's bullies - yesterday's feminists
Barbara Kay, National Post Published: Wednesday, March 12, 2008
The word "hysteria" has its root in the Greek word for uterus. It wascoined by Hippocrates as a medical condition peculiar to women. Understood as irrational emotional flailing about whenever public discussion touches on a woman's fruitful uterus, Hippocrates' neologism is spot on. Try to say out loud in this country that what's in a woman's pregnant belly is a human being, not a blob of tissue, and hysteria emerges in three interesting variations.
The intellectual cupboards of the no-abortion-constraints crowd are bare. Their fallback position has become ever more unworthy of enlightened democrats: censorship, personal attack and scare-mongering. Such is their logical desperation, they prefer to advocate that murderers escape justice rather than admit that an unborn child is a human being.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=368477&p=1

reply from: Faramir

That was an amazing post, ProInformed.
Would it be ok if I quote parts of it some time? (For the record, it would be to be in SUPPORT of the prolife position).

reply from: yoda

Wow..... even the Canadians are starting to get it now......

reply from: 4given

There are countless abortion related issues coming through each day from Canada. (I read a lot of abortion related news) I have a responsibility to protect the posterity of our Nation. I am trying to urge the lukewarm to step out of their comfort zone. I wonder what the next step shall be.. Maybe an abortionno video? Have you any friends that are pro-life, but not beyond how they vote? My own brother said, "Abortion is going to happen. Why should I care?" WHAT?! Why shouldn't he? That self-consumed, self-serving apathy towards others is so disgusting! It is far to common. How can one be pro-life and not desire to be actively learning, educating and sharing their position? I am finding within my own circle that I am the minority- among pro-lifers.. It isn't a "calling" as someone recently said, as much as a duty. All of these months reading through arguments with proaborts, as the more dilligent try to help them understand the reality of abortion.. It never occurred to me that I would have to do the same with the pro-life. When will the pro-life in America stand up? For now I just pass information along.. I am thinking the pictures have to come next.

reply from: faithman

There are countless abortion related issues coming through each day from Canada. (I read a lot of abortion related news) I have a responsibility to protect the posterity of our Nation. I am trying to urge the lukewarm to step out of their comfort zone. I wonder what the next step shall be.. Maybe an abortionno video? Have you any friends that are pro-life, but not beyond how they vote? My own brother said, "Abortion is going to happen. Why should I care?" WHAT?! Why shouldn't he? That self-consumed, self-serving apathy towards others is so disgusting! It is far to common. How can one be pro-life and not desire to be actively learning, educating and sharing their position? I am finding within my own circle that I am the minority- among pro-lifers.. It isn't a "calling" as someone recently said, as much as a duty. All of these months reading through arguments with proaborts, as the more dilligent try to help them understand the reality of abortion.. It never occurred to me that I would have to do the same with the pro-life. When will the pro-life in America stand up? For now I just pass information along.. I am thinking the pictures have to come next.
If you want aborted baby pictures, You can go to the ARMY OF GOD web site, and copy and paste them into a folder and/or email. From there you can print them out. Rev. Spitz has already given permission to do so. But get ready for alot of negative reactions. you should also get a video called "the hard truth" it is a very graphic video, and a real breaker of hard hearts. In the mean time, focus mainly on the young. A 16 year old will be eligable to vote in two years which is the next mid term. It is also very important to pay attention to local elections. Local officials can pass laws that restrict clinics out of business. I am working with a lawyer to get some template ordinances to mail out. We the people can still pass laws by referendom. Find out how to get laws passed that way in your area. We the people need to quit being so passive, and start taking our government back. We need to encourge young people to start pro-life clubs in the schools, as that opens the door to have special events, and invite pro-life speakers in. A pro-life club could also use PA systems, Bulitin boards, and any other facilities afforded to any other club on campus. We have also been successful in getting the cards into the schools thru FELLOWSHIP OF CHRISTIAN ATHLETES. You might consider sponcering a youth pastor conference. We are going to try and get what we call "summer of sacrifice" where kids raise money for life work insted of pizza parties and skee trips. There is more to a walk in faith than entertainment and parties. The clean little secret is, that the IAAP cards win this issue like nothing else I have ever used. That is why I offer them free to anyone who will simply give me a snail mail address in a PM. I should have bumper stickers at the end of next week.


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