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72 year old pro-lifer jailed

by: faithman

A 72 year old pro-life woman has been thrown in jail for 30 days by a pro-abort judge. Donna Holman is one of the most faithful frontliners there is. Her and her husband Dan, travel the country displaying abortion pictures. They are with missionaries to the preborn. Please write her a note. Send material that would be a help for her to be a witness, and stand for the womb child. If you got the IAAP card, then photo copy one on a page, then write a letter on the rest of it. That way, she will have a baby picture in the jail. Her address is........... Donna Holman PO Box 2540 Iowa City, IA 52244

reply from: joe

She and her husband should be honored. They are saviors to the unborn children.

reply from: faithman

Some of the kindest folk you will ever meet as well. It is insane that such a gental soul is thrown in jail while abortionist walk free. These 2 are true heroes. Beyond reproach, and the epitamy of faithfulness. Please take time to write a note.

reply from: joe

I will make sure to write a letter of appreciation for their sacrifice. God bless them both.

reply from: Banned Member

I would certainly like to share my thoughts with her after reading some of the things her & her husband advocates. Thanks for the address

reply from: yoda

Prolife activists don't hide from the public, syrenity, even the bloodthirstiest babykillers can find them easily. The endure the harassment of you proaborts in order to be available to all those who seek their help in saving babies.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Even though I am strongly against people exploiting false propaganda, he should not be in jail. He is a little old man. Why would you jail a little old man unless they caused harm?

reply from: Banned Member

I couldn't find why she is in jail this time, but she's been arrested many times for assault. I read their little website, this couple strongly condones clinic bombings & the murder of abortion doctors, they talk of going off on secret missions given to them by God *rolls eyes*. They should do the world a favor & not let her out. Throw her husband in with her to keep her company.

reply from: LolitaOlivia

It really depends. If she hurt someone she should be in jail. If she didn't, she probably shouldn't be. No one should be imprisoned for their beliefs.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Several pro-choicers and I have backed it up with facts many times. And I am not going to waste my energy to do it again. You guys do not believe anything that doesn't help your side. God, himself, can say something to disprove something and you still will not believe it.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

oh wow. She isn't a sweet old woman. And neither is her husband.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Could you give me their website address if you still have that available? I've met Dan & Donna Holmen at past events. They are hardcore and fanatically opposed to the killings. Dan flat out calls abortionists murderers, which they are.
Everything needs to be done lawfully and in order. If they advocate taking the law into an individual's own hands, I would like to know about that. I agree the killings need to end, but government is the one that has to make that decision. If each individual makes decisions and implements them, and those actions are at odds with others' decisions and implementations, the result is anarchy.
Ultimately, we must all be subject to the authorities, and follow the rules and regulations laid out by the government. Bombing clinics and shooting abortionists is illegal.
A person is somewht perplexed on this issue. Government is of upmost importance. Yet, sometimes the government allows choice when it comes to killing others. I understand that it was illegal to interfere with the Nazi soldiers gassing and incinerating gypsies and Jews, it was unlawful for it's citizens to take actions contrary to the killings, whether it incuded blowing up the gas chambers and crematories, or shooting the soldiers killing the Jews.
People are murderers, so what ya gonna do. It's fruitless to attack clinics or abortionists. You got yer sexual perverts like Clinton and Kennedy that are going to engage in their drunken drug filled sex orgys. They want their sexual playmates to be able to dispose of any accidents. That's why Clinton vetoed the ban on partial birth abortion. Depravity reigns man! Dig it!

reply from: yoda

Is it only proaborts that make malicious accusations against people and never even bother to supply the link to the website they claim to be the source of their accusations? Or does it just seem that way?

reply from: yoda

It was YOUR allegation, so I will assume that it's just another baseless personal attack by a proabort.

reply from: yoda

Oh wow! You eagerly swallow up proabort lies as if they were candy!!
You really do love baseless accusations, don't you? Do you write for the National Enquirer?

reply from: yoda

And yet look how quickly you abandoned that stance........

reply from: joe

Watch the innocent die and do nothing???
God have mercy on our souls. We profess to love you with our lips and watch the most pure of your creation destroyed.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Watch the innocent die and do nothing???
God have mercy on our souls. We profess to love you with our lips and watch the most pure of your creation destroyed.
What do you mean "do nothing"? People hate me because I'm in their face tellling them they are murderers. I've lost my job because I'm not a smoozer and stood in front of my employer's buildings holding pictures of the murdered preborn. I was considered hateful, uncompromising and not allowed to be in management under any circumstances because I was not on the diversity train.
Is that only "loving with the lips"? Are you saying I need to take out the AK-47 and mow down a few abortionists and blow up the facilities to prevent future child murders? Is that the only thing that counts as "doing something."
Well, possibly you were talking about Nazi Germany only. But today's situation isn't much different; an unappreciated and unwanted group of citizens is being exterminated in both cases, 1945 and today.

reply from: joe

The sacrifices you accepted are absolutely part of the fight for the unborn and should be honored. I hope you agree that ALL pro life advocates of ALL stripes should be appreciated and supported.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

The sacrifices you accepted are absolutely part of the fight for the unborn and should be honored. I hope you agree that ALL pro life advocates of ALL stripes should be appreciated and supported.
Jesus told his brother, "The world hates me, because I keep telling it that it's ways are bad." Anyone who confronts his brother about the evil that he is doing is subject to rejection and scorn. I few good apples will actually listen and repent. But most in the world have no intention of changing their ways.
My purpose in life is to point out the evil being committed and ask for repentance. Up front, we know this is a very difficult course and the world is going to throw a lot of persecution and non-acceptance back.

reply from: joe

I am a law abiding family man that has total respect for authority.
Respectfully, I don't understand your position. If the right to life is inherent how can any law not respecting that right be legit?

reply from: Skippy

But... but... The Robert Ferguson era was one of the most entertaining ever on this board before he croaked.

reply from: faithman

A 72 year old pro-life woman has been thrown in jail for 30 days by a pro-abort judge. Donna Holman is one of the most faithful frontliners there is. Her and her husband Dan, travel the country displaying abortion pictures. They are with missionaries to the preborn. Please write her a note. Send material that would be a help for her to be a witness, and stand for the womb child. If you got the IAAP card, then photo copy one on a page, then write a letter on the rest of it. That way, she will have a baby picture in the jail. Her address is........... Donna Holman PO Box 2540 Iowa City, IA 52244

reply from: faithman

Part 1
http://www.dailymotion.com/antiaborticide/video/6863182http://www.dailymotion.com/antiaborticide/video/6863182
Part 2
http://www.dailymotion.com/antiaborticide/video/6863396http://www.dailymotion.com/antiaborticide/video/6863396
Part 3
http://www.dailymotion.com/antiaborticide/video/x433ya_november-1-2006-part-3_politics http://www.dailymotion.com/antiaborticide/video/x433ya_november-1-2006-part-3_politics

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

I googled Army of God. It is an anti-abortion terrorist group that believes in bombing clinics and shooting abortionists. A link in the Wipeka article goes to Dan & Donna Holmen's website http://missionariestothepre-borniowa.com
Dan and Donna's site makes a statement on "The justifiable use of force". It is tilted "Pro-Life Heresy" and says:
"Those who object to the use of force to protect pre-born children do not truly believe in their humanity and worth."
There you have it, the 72 year old grandma believes you are a heretic, not a pro-lifer at all, if you object to the use of force to protect the unborn.
Joe, you have said I should not be critical of Donna Holmen's actions. I am critical. Dan and Donna are just plain wrong. We don't need a Christian Taliban implementing their own type of justice.
Faithman, I disagree with your trying to gain sympathy for Donna. It was inappropriate for you to start this thread in support of her.
I did receive correspondence from the Milw, WI Missionaries to the Preborn asking me to go to Iowa earlier this week to raise a voice in support of Donna. I agree with raising a voice for children. But I am not in agreement with other MTP beliefs; such as showing support for one who says a person is a pro-life heretic for not supporting violence.
Donna Holmen will not be receiving any support from this guy for her excessive, lawless and anarchist positions.

reply from: faithman

You are the one that is simply wrong. You agree with planned parenthood, that a preborn child is a second class citizen, and does not deserve the same protection as the born. This post is a slanderist lie. It is not anarchy for anyone to advocate equil protection of life. It is philisofical stupidity, and totally puts pro-life on a foundation of quick sand, when you allow such idiocy as this post to devalue womb life, and have the audasity to call it pro-life.

reply from: joe


If I saw a infant on the street about to be killed, I would defend that infant with my life. This is the direct equivalent to abortion, no excuses.
Like I said I am law abiding but will support those that offer the ultimate sacrifice for these children.

reply from: joe

Wow what a weak man you truly are, why label me when I have a legit concern.
How is my reasoning wrong?

reply from: joe

Your post was after mine. If it wasn't then forgive me. If it was why are you avoiding my question?

reply from: faithman


If I saw a infant on the street about to be killed, I would defend that infant with my life. This is the direct equivalent to abortion, no excuses.
Like I said I am law abiding but will support those that offer the ultimate sacrifice for these children.
Watch it!! Or thirty pieces Pravone will pay $50,000 to the Judas who snitches you out to the pro-death government. Talk about a farce. The backward collar boyz are anti-death penalty, unless someone shoots a baby killer, then they will pay big to have government kill you. Go figure?

reply from: sheri

This is a minor difference of oppinion, why let it get in the way of supporting someone who has given so much in defence of the babies? Ill be sending out a note to Donna in tomorrows mail, thanks Faithman for letting us know about it.

reply from: joe

This is why I am humbled and saddened that the pro life movement will not win. It is in Gods hands.

reply from: faithman

This is why I am humbled and saddened that the pro life movement will not win. It is in Gods hands.
Those with the pro-life wheel in hand, do not really want abortion on demand to end. It is every bit the cash cow for them as it is for the abortionist. The 2nd amendment was given to us for exactly times like this. When government gets despotic, the citizenry has the right, and duty, to take up arms and break the yoke of tierany. If it is wrong to use force to protect innocents, then all that america was thought to stand for is a farce.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

If I saw a infant on the street about to be killed, I would defend that infant with my life. This is the direct equivalent to abortion, no excuses.
Like I said I am law abiding but will support those that offer the ultimate sacrifice for these children.
This respose is also intended for Faithman, in addition to Joe.
Paul Hill said his shooting the abortionist and his body guard was the equivalent of protecting a playground full of children from a homicidal murderer. Dan and Donna Holman basically made the same argument; they said killing an abortionist is equivalent to saving a classroom of children from being murdered. You have made the same argument, saying protecting an infant on the street is the same as protecting an infant in the womb.
It is true that killing a child in the womb is equivalent to killing a child outside the womb. I've said the government can charge the parents and abortionist with first degree intentional homicide.
But there is one very important difference between the kids in the classroom/playground/street and those in their mother's womb; there are parents who will take care of the already born children. What is the point in "defending" an unborn child when the parents' goal is to see the child dead? Will you hold a gun to the mother's head and force her to continue the pregnancy for the next few months? You are beating aimlessly against the wind, your actions are in vain.
Abandon Paul Hill's defective argument.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

This is why I am humbled and saddened that the pro life movement will not win. It is in Gods hands.
Those with the pro-life wheel in hand, do not really want abortion on demand to end. It is every bit the cash cow for them as it is for the abortionist. The 2nd amendment was given to us for exactly times like this. When government gets despotic, the citizenry has the right, and duty, to take up arms and break the yoke of tierany. If it is wrong to use force to protect innocents, then all that america was thought to stand for is a farce.
You are advocating taking up arms and using them? Are you advocating a Civil War, the armed overthrow of this government? Or just acting contray to it's laws, ignoring them, and enforcing your own will? You've marched a long way down your trail.
The future King David thought it would have been wrong for him to try to overthrow a government put in place by God. he left the removal of Saul's government up to God's timing. You should do the same. God specifically gave man his days to try out his different forms of government. And although God said they would not fully measure up, he has commanded us to be subject to the higher authorities. Anyone not willing to obey the human judges was to be executed.
You have not been put in authority.
I don't know who concernedparent referred to when he said "closet militant"; but it appears to be both Faithman and Joe. You both actually seem pretty out in the open about your militancy and not in a closet.

reply from: joe

You call yourself a Christian? How dare you say the unwanted children deserve to die? Fast and pray that you are not deceived by Satan. Matthew 25:31-46

reply from: joe

Jesus Christ was executed for breaking man made laws. He was not "put in authority" by man but by God.
Closet militant? How about a God fearing, law abiding, bleeding heart militant, that would be a more accurate description.

reply from: joe

I tried to hold my tongue and show respect to the pro life side. You represent the weak link in our pro life chain. You labeling me a militant shows your bigotry. You coward couldn't answer a simple question for the fear of exposing your hypocrisy. I consider you worse than vexing, she is ignorant your deceitful. Answer the question or let your silence confirm your lie.
As I mentioned, in the future label me a God fearing, law abiding, bleeding heart militant.

reply from: faithman

This is why I am humbled and saddened that the pro life movement will not win. It is in Gods hands.
Those with the pro-life wheel in hand, do not really want abortion on demand to end. It is every bit the cash cow for them as it is for the abortionist. The 2nd amendment was given to us for exactly times like this. When government gets despotic, the citizenry has the right, and duty, to take up arms and break the yoke of tierany. If it is wrong to use force to protect innocents, then all that america was thought to stand for is a farce.
You are advocating taking up arms and using them? Are you advocating a Civil War, the armed overthrow of this government? Or just acting contray to it's laws, ignoring them, and enforcing your own will? You've marched a long way down your trail.
The future King David thought it would have been wrong for him to try to overthrow a government put in place by God. he left the removal of Saul's government up to God's timing. You should do the same. God specifically gave man his days to try out his different forms of government. And although God said they would not fully measure up, he has commanded us to be subject to the higher authorities. Anyone not willing to obey the human judges was to be executed.
You have not been put in authority.
I don't know who concernedparent referred to when he said "closet militant"; but it appears to be both Faithman and Joe. You both actually seem pretty out in the open about your militancy and not in a closet.
It is obvious you are ignorant, or just plain don't care, how this government started. It was birthed out of revolt against oppression. There was a group called the torries who used the same retoric as you have. They condemned those who wanted liberty. The founders point blank stated that if a government became oppressive the citizenry had the right, and the duty, to throw it off. Have you ever read the declaration of independance? As a citizen, and one who raised his right hand to defend our constitution even to my own death against enemies forien and domestic, yes, I have the authority to fight against those who would distroy it. RvW is a direct assault on our constitution, by taking away the blessing of life from our posterity. As long as we allow pro-life torries like you lead us into agreement with our enemies that womb children are 2nd class beings, and do not deserve the same protection as a born child, they will be destroyed by the millions. If this was a righteous nation, then every abortion clinic would burn to the ground this very day, and many lamp post would be decorated by the hanging corpses of abortionist. I don't need a closet to hide the truth. That seems to be your job. The sad part is, the womb child pays for your error by the thousands everyday. This government has be hyjacked by secular humanist socialist, and globalist, and does not adhere to the founders, or God. ...and yes, it may take an armed revolt to straighten it out. I guess you will be one of those who stands by and watches our republic desolve, and become a slave to an oppressive government. But I will join the memory of John Adams who would rather die free than a slave.So punk off at the mouth all you want to torry. Your false pro-life stance is obvious.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

This is why I am humbled and saddened that the pro life movement will not win. It is in Gods hands.
Those with the pro-life wheel in hand, do not really want abortion on demand to end. It is every bit the cash cow for them as it is for the abortionist. The 2nd amendment was given to us for exactly times like this. When government gets despotic, the citizenry has the right, and duty, to take up arms and break the yoke of tierany. If it is wrong to use force to protect innocents, then all that america was thought to stand for is a farce.
You are advocating taking up arms and using them? Are you advocating a Civil War, the armed overthrow of this government? Or just acting contray to it's laws, ignoring them, and enforcing your own will? You've marched a long way down your trail.
It is obvious you are ignorant, or just plain don't care, how this government started. It was birthed out of revolt against oppression. There was a group called the torries who used the same retoric as you have. They condemned those who wanted liberty. The founders point blank stated that if a government became oppressive the citizenry had the right, and the duty, to throw it off. Have you ever read the declaration of independance? As a citizen, and one who raised his right hand to defend our constitution even to my own death against enemies forien and domestic, yes, I have the authority to fight against those who would distroy it. RvW is a direct assault on our constitution, by taking away the blessing of life from our posterity. As long as we allow pro-life torries like you lead us into agreement with our enemies that womb children are 2nd class beings, and do not deserve the same protection as a born child, they will be destroyed by the millions. If this was a righteous nation, then every abortion clinic would burn to the ground this very day, and many lamp post would be decorated by the hanging corpses of abortionist. I don't need a closet to hide the truth. That seems to be your job. The sad part is, the womb child pays for your error by the thousands everyday. This government has be hyjacked by secular humanist socialist, and globalist, and does not adhere to the founders, or God. ...and yes, it may take an armed revolt to straighten it out. I guess you will be one of those who stands by and watches our republic desolve, and become a slave to an oppressive government. But I will join the memory of John Adams who would rather die free than a slave.So punk off at the mouth all you want to torry. Your false pro-life stance is obvious.
Ulimately, our hope is in the Kingdom of God. The gospel is that the Kingdom of God shall replace the kingdoms of man. Isaiah 9:6-7 says, "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders....There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace...." This is what is termed "The Gospel" (good news).
In the meantime, God has commanded us to work for six days. 2 Peter 3:8 says, "...a day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day...." The Hebrew calendar says it is 5776, 224 years left for man to do his work; a work man began to engage in when Adam & Eve thought they could be wise like God by making their own decisions. Immediate short term consequences of man's rule included Cain murdering Abel. One day the Sabbath rest (thousand year millenial reign of Christ) will arrive and then men must cease from their work. In the meantime, God has turned his face away from the majority of mankind for a short while (6000 years). Jesus never spoke without using a parable. Only the disciples (students, those called) were allowed to understand him. The Word speaks in parables from Genesis through Revelation because God has a hands off policy now. Mankind will see the consequences of seizing rulership to himself.
If God has a hands off policy, and is allowing man to try communism, nazism. socialism, dictatorships, democracies; is it your position to try to affect these matters. The saints have been called out of man's system to prepare to be a nation of kings and priests. The real solutions will not occur until God empowers the saints when the Sabbath Rest begins.
Psalm 2 "Why are the nations in an uproar, and the people devising a vain thing? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, 'Let us tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us!' He who sits in the heavens laughs, the Lord scoffs at them. Then he will speak to them in His anger, and terrify them in His fury, saying, 'I have installed my King on Zion, my holy mountain.'" Revelation 2:26-27 "He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father." Rev 5:10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they shall reign upon the earth."
In the meantime, the Lord entrusts us with a talent. Those that have been faithful will inherit according to their deeds. One will be given rulership over 10 cities, another over 5, another over 2, all according to their ability and in accordance to how they had been faithful over a few things now. The Lord will say, "You have been faithful over a little, I will put you over much. Enter into the joy of the Lord."
Your priority should be to receive a crown (position of rulership) in that future Kingdom (Government). Don't try to change man's government. Like the nations of Canaan of old, they will be dispossessed when the Government of God comes. We pray each day, "May your Kingdom come, so that your will is done down here on the earth just as it is in heaven." You can't create that heaven on earth by your own efforts. You should wait upon the Lord. His return probably will not be during our lifetime (He will cut the sixth day short before man destroys all life) ,but eventually, God will install Jesus as King in Jerusalem over all the earth.

reply from: faithman

This is why I am humbled and saddened that the pro life movement will not win. It is in Gods hands.
Those with the pro-life wheel in hand, do not really want abortion on demand to end. It is every bit the cash cow for them as it is for the abortionist. The 2nd amendment was given to us for exactly times like this. When government gets despotic, the citizenry has the right, and duty, to take up arms and break the yoke of tierany. If it is wrong to use force to protect innocents, then all that america was thought to stand for is a farce.
You are advocating taking up arms and using them? Are you advocating a Civil War, the armed overthrow of this government? Or just acting contray to it's laws, ignoring them, and enforcing your own will? You've marched a long way down your trail.
It is obvious you are ignorant, or just plain don't care, how this government started. It was birthed out of revolt against oppression. There was a group called the torries who used the same retoric as you have. They condemned those who wanted liberty. The founders point blank stated that if a government became oppressive the citizenry had the right, and the duty, to throw it off. Have you ever read the declaration of independance? As a citizen, and one who raised his right hand to defend our constitution even to my own death against enemies forien and domestic, yes, I have the authority to fight against those who would distroy it. RvW is a direct assault on our constitution, by taking away the blessing of life from our posterity. As long as we allow pro-life torries like you lead us into agreement with our enemies that womb children are 2nd class beings, and do not deserve the same protection as a born child, they will be destroyed by the millions. If this was a righteous nation, then every abortion clinic would burn to the ground this very day, and many lamp post would be decorated by the hanging corpses of abortionist. I don't need a closet to hide the truth. That seems to be your job. The sad part is, the womb child pays for your error by the thousands everyday. This government has be hyjacked by secular humanist socialist, and globalist, and does not adhere to the founders, or God. ...and yes, it may take an armed revolt to straighten it out. I guess you will be one of those who stands by and watches our republic desolve, and become a slave to an oppressive government. But I will join the memory of John Adams who would rather die free than a slave.So punk off at the mouth all you want to torry. Your false pro-life stance is obvious.
Ulimately, our hope is in the Kingdom of God. The gospel is that the Kingdom of God shall replace the kingdoms of man. Isaiah 9:6-7 says, "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders....There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace...." This is what is termed "The Gospel" (good news).
In the meantime, God has commanded us to work for six days. 2 Peter 3:8 says, "...a day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day...." The Hebrew calendar says it is 5776, 224 years left for man to do his work; a work man began to engage in when Adam & Eve thought they could be wise like God by making their own decisions. Immediate short term consequences of man's rule included Cain murdering Abel. One day the Sabbath rest (thousand year millenial reign of Christ) will arrive and then men must cease from their work. In the meantime, God has turned his face away from the majority of mankind for a short while (6000 years). Jesus never spoke without using a parable. Only the disciples (students, those called) were allowed to understand him. The Word speaks in parables from Genesis through Revelation because God has a hands off policy now. Mankind will see the consequences of seizing rulership to himself.
If God has a hands off policy, and is allowing man to try communism, nazism. socialism, dictatorships, democracies; is it your position to try to affect these matters. The saints have been called out of man's system to prepare to be a nation of kings and priests. The real solutions will not occur until God empowers the saints when the Sabbath Rest begins.
Psalm 2 "Why are the nations in an uproar, and the people devising a vain thing? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, 'Let us tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us!' He who sits in the heavens laughs, the Lord scoffs at them. Then he will speak to them in His anger, and terrify them in His fury, saying, 'I have installed my King on Zion, my holy mountain.'" Revelation 2:26-27 "He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father." Rev 5:10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they shall reign upon the earth."
In the meantime, the Lord entrusts us with a talent. Those that have been faithful will inherit according to their deeds. One will be given rulership over 10 cities, another over 5, another over 2, all according to their ability and in accordance to how they had been faithful over a few things now. The Lord will say, "You have been faithful over a little, I will put you over much. Enter into the joy of the Lord."
Your priority should be to receive a crown (position of rulership) in that future Kingdom (Government). Don't try to change man's government. Like the nations of Canaan of old, they will be dispossessed when the Government of God comes. We pray each day, "May your Kingdom come, so that your will is done down here on the earth just as it is in heaven." You can't create that heaven on earth by your own efforts. You should wait upon the Lord. His return probably will not be during our lifetime (He will cut the sixth day short before man destroys all life) ,but eventually, God will install Jesus as King in Jerusalem over all the earth.
What a bunch of hyper spiritual gobbledy goop. We are already kings and preist if we have been born again. We have a spiritual mandate to seek justice right now, right here. Romans 13 says that government is to be a terror to evil doers. Our founding documents say that we the people are the government, and our founders gave us the second amendment to make sure that we have the power to remain that way. If you just want to remain a coward, and uninvolved, then run along back to your kingdom hall and shut up.

reply from: joe

Bottom line concernedparent I will call you out if you attack any pro life advocate. Just so you know all pro life methods have failed for 35 years so don't use that argument.
Militant activism give me a break, it is free speech isn't that protected? How long should I hold my tongue again? Another 35 years? Until your one and only true way wins? LOL.
To get angry with a pro life advocate is against my personal convictions. I agree it is best to let the fire die now.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Bottom line concernedparent I will call you out if you attack any pro life advocate. Just so you know all pro life methods have failed for 35 years so don't use that argument.
Militant activism give me a break, it is free speech isn't that protected? How long should I hold my tongue again? Another 35 years? Until your one and only true way wins? LOL.
To get angry with a pro life advocate is against my personal convictions. I agree it is best to let the fire die now.
Why did I try to draw out of Faithman and Joe what their positions are?
I use to have a friend I spent a lot of time with 25 years ago. With me, he always was law abiding. But, in fact, he was a violator. When some of his lawless friends were in the car they would ask him to grab the bow out of the trunk to shoot a buck. I was shocked on another ocassion when the back seat passenger asked for my friend to get his rifle out of the trunk and shoot a beef animal. The guy was very insistant and asked many times to kill the beef, but my friend did not comply because I was there. On another ocassion, my "friend" spent the night hiding in the swamp while Department of Natural Resources enforcement officials searched for him after shooting a deer illegally at night. He later admitted that when he use to stay at my grandparent's resort, he always shot deer illegally. I finally decided I could not hang around him any more. I am more than a little nervous about being associated with Dan Holmen or Matt Trewhella. I want to protest against abortion. But if they have some closeted items and may or are engaging in illegal activities, like my previous "friend", I would have to disassociate myself from them.

reply from: faithman

Bottom line concernedparent I will call you out if you attack any pro life advocate. Just so you know all pro life methods have failed for 35 years so don't use that argument.
Militant activism give me a break, it is free speech isn't that protected? How long should I hold my tongue again? Another 35 years? Until your one and only true way wins? LOL.
To get angry with a pro life advocate is against my personal convictions. I agree it is best to let the fire die now.
Why did I try to draw out of Faithman and Joe what their positions are?
I use to have a friend I spent a lot of time with 25 years ago. With me, he always was law abiding. But, in fact, he was a violator. When some of his lawless friends were in the car they would ask him to grab the bow out of the trunk to shoot a buck. I was shocked on another ocassion when the back seat passenger asked for my friend to get his rifle out of the trunk and shoot a beef animal. The guy was very insistant and asked many times to kill the beef, but my friend did not comply because I was there. On another ocassion, my "friend" spent the night hiding in the swamp while Department of Natural Resources enforcement officials searched for him after shooting a deer illegally at night. He later admitted that when he use to stay at my grandparent's resort, he always shot deer illegally. I finally decided I could not hang around him any more. I am more than a little nervous about being associated with Dan Holmen or Matt Trewhella. I want to protest against abortion. But if they have some closeted items and may or are engaging in illegal activities, like my previous "friend", I would have to disassociate myself from them.
You haven't drawn anything out. I have been honest at all times about all my positions on pro-life. Go hide back under momma's skirt, and keep your mouth shut about things you obviously do not have any understanding. If we went your stupid way, every innocent person would be put at risk of being the victim of evil doers. Defending innocent life is nothing like poaching dear, and only a stupid moron would even dare to compare the 2.

reply from: Banned Member

Could you give me their website address if you still have that available? I've met Dan & Donna Holmen at past events. They are hardcore and fanatically opposed to the killings. Dan flat out calls abortionists murderers, which they are.
Everything needs to be done lawfully and in order. If they advocate taking the law into an individual's own hands, I would like to know about that. I agree the killings need to end, but government is the one that has to make that decision. If each individual makes decisions and implements them, and those actions are at odds with others' decisions and implementations, the result is anarchy.
Ultimately, we must all be subject to the authorities, and follow the rules and regulations laid out by the government. Bombing clinics and shooting abortionists is illegal.
A person is somewht perplexed on this issue. Government is of upmost importance. Yet, sometimes the government allows choice when it comes to killing others. I understand that it was illegal to interfere with the Nazi soldiers gassing and incinerating gypsies and Jews, it was unlawful for it's citizens to take actions contrary to the killings, whether it incuded blowing up the gas chambers and crematories, or shooting the soldiers killing the Jews.
People are murderers, so what ya gonna do. It's fruitless to attack clinics or abortionists. You got yer sexual perverts like Clinton and Kennedy that are going to engage in their drunken drug filled sex orgys. They want their sexual playmates to be able to dispose of any accidents. That's why Clinton vetoed the ban on partial birth abortion. Depravity reigns man! Dig it!
Here's the link that will take you directly into the newsletters I read condoning the murder of abortionists.
http://www.armyofgod.com/danholman.html
Edit: I posted this before I read the rest of the thread, sorry Godslaw, it looks like you had already found it & posted it.

reply from: Banned Member

Is it only proaborts that make malicious accusations against people and never even bother to supply the link to the website they claim to be the source of their accusations? Or does it just seem that way?
Yeah, just shows how wrong assumptions are. I just assumed that people who claim to be avid supporters of these people would know what their views are. Silly me.

reply from: faithman

A 72 year old pro-life woman has been thrown in jail for 30 days by a pro-abort judge. Donna Holman is one of the most faithful frontliners there is. Her and her husband Dan, travel the country displaying abortion pictures. They are with missionaries to the preborn. Please write her a note. Send material that would be a help for her to be a witness, and stand for the womb child. If you got the IAAP card, then photo copy one on a page, then write a letter on the rest of it. That way, she will have a baby picture in the jail. Her address is........... Donna Holman PO Box 2540 Iowa City, IA 52244

reply from: joe

You Syrenity condone ripping off body parts from innocent children and you hypocrite judge them. You have the right of free speech so let them have theirs.
You are taking part of the worst human rights violation in our human history.
The right to life is inherent and you violate it.
They murdered no one but you are participating in a holocaust, criminal.

reply from: faithman

You Syrenity condone ripping off body parts from innocent children and you hypocrite judge them. You have the right of free speech so let them have theirs.
You are taking part of the worst human rights violation in our human history.
The right to life is inherent and you violate it.
They murdered no one but you are participating in a holocaust, criminal.
Could you please be a little more plain spoken, and quit beating around the bush?

reply from: faithman

http://blip.tv/file/612334/

reply from: carolemarie

oh wow. She isn't a sweet old woman. And neither is her husband.
No matter what rhetoric she spoutes, she didn't do anything against the law. She was sidewalk counseling. None of the women she allegedly harrased showed up in court to testify (because there aren't any) only Planned Parenthood employees showed up and they are enemies of the Hollomans and had a vested interest in not being truthful....
The judge is pro-abortion and ordered her to take drugs to change her point of view and banned her from free speech for life. All outrageous and ridiculous things designed to punish her for being prolife....
(I don't agree with the kill the providers stupidity and I note that most of those who shout it the loudest just say it to provoke and scare those who are pro-choice. If they were so gunho to kill, then why have they NEVER done it???? Obviously they don't really believe it...) Anyways, we don't punish people for what they say, but rather what they do and she has done nothing except use her right to free speech to talk to women seeking an abortion.

reply from: carolemarie

The Missionaries to the Pre-born, or at least the founder Matt T. supports the justifable homicide theory.
It's a stretch to me how a Christian can support murdering human beings and call themselves prolife....but aside from that, Matt is really nice and committed to fighting abortion. He himself has never shot anyone, and none of his missionaries have. They just give lip service to the theory of killing in the name of life.
I find it rather sickening that YOU wouldn't do it but advocate for it, hoping someone else will do what you won't do. That is wrong. So if your not willing to kill anyone you should quit talking about it!
Anyone who advocates it is a hypocrite unless they do it....

reply from: yoda

Yes, silly you. Never mind your spurious claims about who is an "avid supporter of whom"....... just link us to direct quotes of the people you are attacking, saying what you claim they have said.
Is that too complicated for you? Or too restrictive, maybe?

reply from: faithman

Number one, ex baby killers do not have the privilage to redefine the issue. Justifiable homocide is not murder. And it is totally stupid for little feminist womb child murders like you to run your ignorant mouth. If it is justifiable to protect a born child with force, then the same is true for the womb child unless we agree with killers like you, that womb children are 2nd class beings who do not enjoy the same protection as the born. I am sure the most here would agree that lethal force is permissible to protect school children from an evil agressor. Simply because they haven't done so makes them wrong and hypocrites? You actually have murdered a human being, so now you are going to pontificate to us that it is wrong to protect children from the likes of you? I can see why you would say that. You have killed a child or two, so I can see why you further punish the innocent womb child, by saying they deserve no justice for the ones who would murder them. It is not murder, nor vengance, to protect an innocent person from an evil agressor, unless you change over a thousand years of christian principals. What is sickening is we let baby killers dictate to us what is right and wrong. And if you have never fought in a war, then you need to leave this country to avoid being a hypocrite for enjoying freedom bought by the blood of patriates. After all, according to you they were wrong in "murdering" the evil aggressors who would wipe us from the map given the chance. You are not the "moral" voice here. You killed a child, and would have us stand idlely by as others emulate your evil aggression against womb children.

reply from: faithman

Sorry, but the likes of you blackend it way before I ever came along. You can not agree with an enemy and ever exspect to win.

reply from: GodsLaw4Us2Live

Sorry, but the likes of you blackend it way before I ever came along. You can not agree with an enemy and ever exspect to win.
I agree with concerned parent on this issue. You need to work on lawful methods for turning back abortion. I agree it's horrible to rip the arms off unborn babies, suck their intestines and brains out, and crush their skulls. I have no problem telling a person in approval of such acts that they are low life selfish monsters, how could they do such things? Even if there is a sexual pervert in the White House dropping his pants for interns and forcing himself on women, a man who is eliminating bans to infanticide on nearly full-term partially born babies, you need to live lawfully. It's frustrating to see the wicked rule. But it's what men wanted, and it's what men are getting.
It's a bunch of BS that the Kingdom of God is here now; you must be joking Faithman. What counts is reality, what is really actually happening. Not a nebulous concept of Kingdom floating around someplace; supposedly in the hearts of men. BS. The world is not changed and the wicked act ever more wickedly. Evangelical Christians divorce at a rate higher than the national average. Their behavior is no better than the average man. Evangelical Christians may even exhibit poorer behavior than others, because they have a grace concept that seems to permit sin while being guaranteed of eternal life regardless. Life is only possible by living lawfully (love God and neighbor). In the OT you see Law and Sacrifice side by side, hand in hand. Works and grace are side by side. Both are necessary to life!
The only place in the Bible were "faith alone" appears: James 2:24 "So you see then how by works a man is justified, and not by faith alone."
Of course, that Jew hating hero of the reformation (Martin Luther) who said you could murder a thousand times a day and still not lose your salvation if your faith was greater still (whatever that BS means) also hated the book of James and said it was a house of cards. So there is your opinion of James from your great hero and misleader.

reply from: yoda

Sorry, but the likes of you blackend it way before I ever came along. You can not agree with an enemy and ever exspect to win.
I disagree with both of you. Nothing that any of us can do as individuals can give our "whole movement" a black eye, and unless we are speaking for some particular organization all we can do is give ourselves individual black eyes. Even if we do speak for an organization, our words represent only that particular group.
The fact that proaborts love to smear all of us with the mistakes of any of us should come as no surprise to anyone, nor should it inspire us to attack those who make such mistakes. Let them defend their own actions, and let us refuse to be stereotyped by the proaborts.

reply from: faithman

A 72 year old pro-life woman has been thrown in jail for 30 days by a pro-abort judge. Donna Holman is one of the most faithful frontliners there is. Her and her husband Dan, travel the country displaying abortion pictures. They are with missionaries to the preborn. Please write her a note. Send material that would be a help for her to be a witness, and stand for the womb child. If you got the IAAP card, then photo copy one on a page, then write a letter on the rest of it. That way, she will have a baby picture in the jail. Her address is........... Donna Holman PO Box 2540 Iowa City, IA 52244

reply from: yoda

Yeah, but that's not the problem here. We have people actually publicly applauding those "mistakes."
If so, then that's just another "mistake".
We simply don't have control over anyone but ourselves. And it should be pretty obvious by now that all the criticism in the world is not going to give us that control. IMO, the back and forth criticism is worse than the original cause of the difference of opinion.

reply from: carolemarie

Number one, ex baby killers do not have the privilage to redefine the issue. Justifiable homocide is not murder. And it is totally stupid for little feminist womb child murders like you to run your ignorant mouth. If it is justifiable to protect a born child with force, then the same is true for the womb child unless we agree with killers like you, that womb children are 2nd class beings who do not enjoy the same protection as the born. I am sure the most here would agree that lethal force is permissible to protect school children from an evil agressor. Simply because they haven't done so makes them wrong and hypocrites? You actually have murdered a human being, so now you are going to pontificate to us that it is wrong to protect children from the likes of you? I can see why you would say that. You have killed a child or two, so I can see why you further punish the innocent womb child, by saying they deserve no justice for the ones who would murder them. It is not murder, nor vengance, to protect an innocent person from an evil agressor, unless you change over a thousand years of christian principals. What is sickening is we let baby killers dictate to us what is right and wrong. And if you have never fought in a war, then you need to leave this country to avoid being a hypocrite for enjoying freedom bought by the blood of patriates. After all, according to you they were wrong in "murdering" the evil aggressors who would wipe us from the map given the chance. You are not the "moral" voice here. You killed a child, and would have us stand idlely by as others emulate your evil aggression against womb children.
Killing people is evil, no matter if they are pre-born children or born people.
Killing Doctors is not the solution to abortion.
Murder is not the solution to murder.
It's wrong to advocate killing other people...this should be obvious to you as well as it is to 98% of pro-life advocates.
Blessings,
Carole

reply from: galen

carol
i once spent several days on this issue with FM... he won't change his veiws anymore than you will yours.
MAry

reply from: joe

This is why all pro life advocates should be appreciated.

reply from: Banned Member

Yes, silly you. Never mind your spurious claims about who is an "avid supporter of whom"....... just link us to direct quotes of the people you are attacking, saying what you claim they have said.
Is that too complicated for you? Or too restrictive, maybe?
Are you blind? Or are you just really that much of an ignorant hate monger. I'm going to go with ignorant. I already posted the links, dumb ass, right above the post you quoted. If you don't call a newsletter written by the person in question good enough, well that's your issue, nit mine. God you have a lot of issues...

reply from: 4given

And fortunately for the rest of us, those issues do not include pathological lies, distortion, or the inability to value human life, except for the power to end it.. (Oh yes- the babies would end up in a horrible foster care system if not aborted bit as well) Hmm.. homicidal, dishonest... about enough character flaws for me. You discredited yourself, and whatever uttering you choose to spill long ago.

reply from: yoda

You know, I've got to admit a natural reluctance to click on any link in the post of a proabort....... they usually lead to proabort websites. So I didn't click on that one.
Now that I have, I'm still not sure what your point is. The man mentioned on that website, Paul Hill, is dead. So how can you be a "supporter" of a dead man?
And although he does express sympathy for the motives of Mr. Hill, nowhere on that page does he urge anyone to imitate Paul Hill. All he really says is we shouldn't be so quick to condemn someone without considering their motives.
Would you like to quote something specific from that website, so that we may actually discuss what he actually said, rather than debate your "summary" of what he said? No?

reply from: yoda

No doubt. But attacks are not "positive", and they don't result in anything positive, most of the time.

reply from: faithman

Many thanks to all of you who have written to Donna as she serves time in jail. I just talked to Dan Holman, and he said the responce has been over whelming. She has gotten so much mail, that she has not been able to read all of it. Regardless of whether you agree with her beliefs, we can not let the pro-aborts use our judicial system to force pro-lifers to get sike exams. If we let this stand, then all pro-lifers are in danger of being herded off into mental hospitals if they simply stand out in front of an abortion clinic, and exercise first amendment rights. Our mail in campain is having a great effect on the jail. Please take time to send in a card or letter. If ever there was a proper time to use bloody pictures, this is it. If you got the IAAP, please photo copy one on a paper, and use the rest to send her a note. You could do the same for bloody pictures. The jail staff has to read everything we send to Donna before she gets it. It just tickles me to have the vision of a bull dyke pro-abort having to sit and read pro-life literature as part of her job. Please take time to send a note
Donna Holman ; PO Box 2540 ; Iowa City, IA 52244

reply from: sheri

hey, fboy whats up with "bull dyck proabort"?!!! watch your mouth! and lets try to be a little more chivalrous.

reply from: galen

FM and chivalry are lost on one another sheri...
Mary

reply from: faithman

It was a whole pack of pro-abort bull dykes that railroaded Donnan into jail, Chivalry is never waisted on evil women. Witches have found the point of chivalrous knights swords in many a tale.

reply from: sheri

fboy, i have no problem getting a little rough with anyone who is here to defend themselves, but comments like yours only sound crass and whats the point? keep in mind there are other people reading our posts. and take a little correction with a good dose of humility.

reply from: faithman

I take correction when warranted. I don't think any is here. The point is overtly bull dykish police women, and judge, railroaded a pro-lifer into jail. The fact is even lesbo's call themselves bull dykes. So what would you have me call women who lick other women's genitalia? I think bull dyke is pretty tame, particularly when they go out of their way to apear such.

reply from: sheri

someone ought to wash your mouth out with soap.

reply from: faithman

My granny beat you to that one a long time ago. SSSSSooooo why would you think I need an ivory gargle? What did I say wrong?

reply from: joe

To make such a claim would be illogical. If one believes this is a pro life stance, then they should also believe in eliminating all laws that defend human rights.
This person would not be considered a pro life advocate, he would be considered an anarchist.

reply from: sheri

fboy, you know what you said, how does your ranting serve the babies? you should always try to bring the conversation back to the babies, not go off on a meaningless and obscene ramble.

reply from: faithman

I know exactly what I said. It serves the womb child to accuratly identify their enemies. You can not talk acurately about an obscene issue, unless you use terms that factually fit.

reply from: sheri

you are rationalizing your bad behavior. We need to change the culture of death in order to make abortion illegal. we should not think of ourselves as beyond improvement.

reply from: joe

To take exception to a human rights violation is not anarchy.
The Supreme Court ruling decided by 5 members of our nation and then forced on its people when it directly violates the inherent right to life is not a legit law.
Most people are law abiding (thank God) therefore we follow it but we recognize the violation of this law.
I would assume most in the extreme element don't support total anarchy but support the immediate protection of the unborn.
Which I understand is illegal. Their mission is logical and heartfelt but it won't ultimately lead to the solution. In the here and now it will reach a certain segment of individuals and do its own part to end this holocaust.
I follow a simple philosophy of defending the innocent human being and supporting all dynamics involved in achieving this goal.

reply from: joe

Human rights are inherent.
Germany violated these rights through legitimate legal action.
I make no justification to the concept of anarchy.
concernedparent I respect what you are have been accomplishing on this forum.
I believe we disagree on this issue on the basis of a being law abiding citizens.
You believe you cannot oppose the rule of the land without being accused of tyranny.
I love this nation but I am not blind to injustice.
I would also like to think of myself as a law abiding citizen even though I exercise my right to free speech.
I believe that is what makes this nation wonderful.

reply from: thecoldensues

Is it only proaborts that make malicious accusations against people and never even bother to supply the link to the website they claim to be the source of their accusations? Or does it just seem that way?
First of all, genius, no one who is pro-choice is pro-abortion. They are for the CHOICE to abort.
Secondly, if she's in jail, it's probably because she comitted a CRIME, not because some judge has a vandetta against a pro-life activist. If anything, it would be the pro-lifers doing that, because from what I've found, the majority of you are uneduacted or insane. :/

reply from: joe

Another cockroach. How many of you idiots do we have to crush intellectually.

reply from: sheri

we really are a motley crew. Donna is in jail because she was attempting to save babies, our laws are all topst turvy, its ok to kill a baby but if you try to save one your packed off to jail for a month.

reply from: bluebrunette

Harassing people with gory late term miscarriages and stillbirths is honorable? Pretty sick. I'd think you guys would look down at that. I'd be really embaressed by that kind of behavior...

reply from: sheri

oh not this again! you cant be saying the abortion pictures are fabrications are you?

reply from: bluebrunette

Ya I am actually. Especially since I've seen embryos myself. They're at Body Worlds exhibits. I see "8 weeks" and a white jellybean, then I see a pro-life sign that says "8 weeks" and it's some dollparts and ketchup.. yes they are pretty ridiculous.

reply from: sheri

so your saying at 8 weeks a baby has no fingers yet? babies are very well developed at that stage what are you talking about? not that it matters its the same baby wether you kill him with a pill at 8 days or a machine at 8 weeks or chemical at 8 months, same baby same soul, same worth.

reply from: bluebrunette

Ugh I cannot stand incorrect vocab. Babies are BORN.
And no it does not have fingers. If you squint hard at it it has buds where arms and legs are going to be. Go to Body Worlds yourself! They're going all over the country and world.
Umm pill and chemical are the same thing.

reply from: galen

ok go back to the book you posted for us.... even there, there is a well formed body. maybe its mini but its still well formed. Why do you people not use your own evidence... do you all just skim through the text and call it good... what do you do in school... cheat?
Mary

reply from: galen

Don't worry Cp he hung himself with his own 'Evidence', bad vacab? try bad study habits... better not try to be in my class... i rout him out in 8 hours... or one of my student teachers would.
Mary

reply from: bluebrunette

Babies being born is common sense. A kindergardener could tell you that. Babies do not live in uteruses.

reply from: bluebrunette

Which dictionary are you using? I could google up some other ones that don't include fetus in the definition.
It goes zygote, embryo, fetus, then baby. No child. No baby. It's just annoying when people can't call something what it actually is and have to melodramatize it.
And it's not a fetus till week 8. Most abortions occur in the embryo stage. So if you are going by that definition.. it is still not a baby.

reply from: sheri

Im amazed at how well developed a baby is at 8 weeks, its beautiful, but that is not our whole arguement, we say the child should be protected from the moment of conception. fetal development is cool and many people have come to see that abortion is wrong from the pictures of the aftermath but fetal development is to us a side issue, th real question is, is it ever right to kill an innocent human?

reply from: bluebrunette

Ants are well-formed if you get into their anatomy enough. Having anatomy does not equal in personhood.

reply from: bluebrunette

Personhood is a personal belief. It is not universal fact. When personhood begins is a matter of opinion.
White jellybeans are beautiful? Alright. Whatever floats your boat. Seeing it made me even more pro-choice. There was nothing remotely human about it.
No babies are involved in abortion.

reply from: galen

No that requires Human DNA... go back to 1st year biology... in HS... nope I take that back my 14 year old learned it in 2nd grade.... what were you doing eating crayons?
mary

reply from: bluebrunette

Personhood is a personal belief. Some believe it begins at conception, others when it is viable, birth, whenever. There is so much more to humanity than having DNA.

reply from: galen

uh huh... proove your theory.
mary

reply from: bluebrunette

How? It's a concept. It's like believing in god or not. There is a difference between being biologically a human and being in personhood.

reply from: sheri

you dont believe in truth do you?

reply from: bluebrunette

The phrase arrogant Christians use who think their religious beliefs are right above all those other religions out there? And they even disagree within their own sects and can't get their story straight? Nope!

reply from: sheri

our internal squabling is truly scandelous, but it is not proof that there is no such thing as truth. if truth can not be found at all what is the point in debating anything? if truth does not exist nothing does.

reply from: bluebrunette

Some things are not solid. Opinions and beliefs are not solid. You think that dress makes Helga look fat, I don't. There is no real answer, it is left to the individual.
Unless some god(s) show up, religion is undefined. Anyone could be right. Saying you're right is just arrogant and goofy.

reply from: sheri

so your saying if helga is 95# soaking wet she looks fat in said dress? what if shes 395#? come on certain things can be known very easily with very little investigation other things have to be looked into but truth is there just because you cant find it doesnt prove its not the there.

reply from: sheri

Also, some God did "show up"! we'll tell you about Him if you stay awhile.

reply from: bluebrunette

"Fat" can be defined by people differently. There is no universal "looking fat". An anorexic woman will see their 75 lb body as "fat".
And no thank you I already got abused by a nun throughout my childhood, harassed by the community, disowned by some family members, etc. just for not having the same religious beliefs as them. I'm really sick of that story.

reply from: sheri

but is the 75# woman fat, No shes not and if she thinks she is she has a mental disorder that needs to be dealt with, its called anorexiia.
Truth does exist and it can be found.
im sorry you had a rough childhood please dont let that stop you from knowing the comfort of a God who loves you.

reply from: bluebrunette

I have never believed in god. That's why people gave me a rough time. I cannot ever think that there is a magic man in the sky who magically spawns up everything and watches everyone 24/7 and if you're bad you go the mean firey place and good you go to the fun cloudy place and his only evidence is some middle eastern guy from milleniums ago being passed down by word of mouth.. no
I really really do not buy that story. It's fine that you believe and you're happy with that, but I am a really serious atheist and you're not going to convert me. And I'm happy with my beliefs. Makes me value my time here more.

reply from: galen

thxs cp for that unbiased scource.
Mary

reply from: bluebrunette

Yes, and when one becomes a human being is disputed. That's why this is a political issue! If you haven't noticed, fetuses do not have citizenship or death certificates in the event of a miscarriage. They are legally recognized as their own person at birth (and in the case of a double murder in the death of a pregnant chick that is when the fetus is viable).

reply from: galen

legal issues were never joined hand and hand with scientific ones.
mary

reply from: bluebrunette

Really? What species are these "disputers" claiming a human embryo is?
The only political/legal issue is "at what point can we allow human beings (persons) to be killed ethically?"
An embryo is an embryo. There are dog embryos too. All species have them. That "what is it a horse?" argument is so stupid.
And way to bias up a question. The majority of the country doesn't believe it is a person yet, hence it is not legally recognized as a person and abortion is legal.

reply from: sheri

here we go majority rules again! Hey! the majority of the country IS prolife! Time mag did a report 51% in favor of out lawing most abortions.Does the majority still rule?

reply from: bluebrunette

When was this? I've seen in the news differently.
And it obviously isn't if it is still legal. And how quickly it was illegalized and legalized again in South Dakota.

reply from: bluebrunette

Do you not understand the difference between being a biological person, and having human qualities? There are things about us that separate us from other species. A fetus is only alive on a cellular basis, it does not actually have a life the same way we do yet.

reply from: faithman

You should really look in the mirror when you say that.

reply from: faithman

Why cant you guys take your secular humanist drivel to another thred. This one was started to help people do real pro-life work in real time. You can continue your meaningless exercise in futility else where.

reply from: sheri

hey fboy i do look for ways to improve myself, but why do you think i need correction? i told you were you need help.

reply from: faithman

You told me where you think I need help. Just because you think it don't make it so. Abortion is not a "debate", and will never come to an end thinking so. There is no reasoning with the unreasonable. Bortheads are enemies in need of defeat. We can be nice to them after they quit killing babies. Till then, this is a street fight, and if you don't have the stomach for it stay out of the way. I owe you nothing, and your prissy missy posts are a waist of both our time. You don't like what I have to say, don't read it.

reply from: sheri

Listen up little man, i will continue to read your posts and cringe at your pig headed stupidity and i will correct you when i feel like it because i would like to think some day a little good advice will sink in. Also im not picking on you for your unpolished attitude, i dont care too much about the name calling, what ever .but your filthy references were way out of line and your attitude toward the female jailers was disgusting. humility is the mother of wisdom.

reply from: sheri

Im sorry i didnt mean to hurt your feelings.

reply from: yoda

Hmm.... I was just about to point out how incredibly stupid this post is, when I noticed that CP already took care of that.
Try again, baby killer?

reply from: faithman

Yah ya did. You just didn't do a very good job

reply from: 4given

When does her sentence end? She must be 1/2 way through by now. Is this her personal address? If it was to a state facility, it would have the name and prisoner #. Typically there is not a p.o. box. If mail was sent later, would she receive it at this address?

reply from: faithman

Usually you are right. But in small counties and towns, a PO Box, and name is all that is used. I ghink she went to jail around the 15th. So yes, she is about half way thru. Please keep sending letters, as it is a huge witnes to these pro-aborts who have hijacked justice.


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