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PLEASE POST PRO-CHOICE FORUMS HERE

Let's go there and change some minds

by: dinate

To all you pro-lifers, I only began posting on here a few weeks ago after doing reasearch for a debate topic on abortion for a class I am taking. I didn't even know which way I would go on the topic, so I researched BOTH sides. What I fould was apalling.
Pro-choice has really no argument except that a woman should have right to kill before birth in order to prevent becoming a parent (and all the responsibility and hardships that may come with having to take care of another human being). They feel the government shouldn't come in and tell a woman what choice to make.
So, they feel we should kill to prevent overpopulation and welfare. So, its settled, let's go to all the prisons and release all the serial killers. Afterall, they we only helping control the population and possibly keeping those people off welfare, right?
Of course not, we all rely on the government to step in and take control when wrongs are committed- prosecute and send the criminals to jail. Abortion should be no different.
However, I feel like I am preaching to the choir on here, and not making much progess. Most of you feel abortion is WRONG. What we all really need to do is post all the PRO-CHOICE forums on here, and then go over and give them a piece of our mind.
Let's try to go convert more over to our side, so we can change some policy here in our country

reply from: jujujellybean

go dinate! I ttly agree.

reply from: bobman

Please don't. Do you appreciate having pro-choice people come and ranting on your boards? Keep your babble to yourselves.
Some pro-choice forums have forums for debate with pro-fetus types, but otherwise, you are just being trolls. Trolls that are too ignorant to recognize the difference between a fetus and a sentient human being, or to recognize that there are too many unwanted people living in misery already. If you pro-life people weren't a bunch of hypocrites, you would adopt all of your children instead of breeding in an already overcrowded world and creating need for more abortion.

reply from: dinate

Yes I actually do like it when other people come over and give their opinion on these message boards. It gives the chance for debate, education, awareness, and hopefully change.
I do support adoption as the choice for women who get pregnant and don't want to parent. Hopefully, one day, I will be able to adopt and love one of the children whose parents decided they could not raise them, but didn't kill them. I'm sure more people would go that route if the beaurocratic red tape made it easier for those involved in the process. Yet, it is one step at a time beginning with putting a stop to the killing.
In fact, my husband and sister-in-law were adopted into a loving family and I am VERY appreciative to be a part of it.

reply from: yoda

I advise moderation on that project. I've been to countless proabort forums, and I can tell you that it's almost unheard of for anyone who is posting as a proabort advocate to admit a change of mind. More often, you will be abused, called all sorts of names, and probably even banned for having the nerve to say babies ought not be killed electively.
My advice is to try them one at a time, because being attacked viciously by a dozen rabid baby killers at one time can be disheartening. I advise the old "shake the dust off your feet" option when that happens.

reply from: boinky78

[rabid baby killers at one time can be disheartening.]
I don't recall killing any babies recently

reply from: yoda

You mean like you? Yes, we do.... we need to show the idiocy of the proabort side direct from the horse's ....... mouth.
Well, okay, I'll admit that we are not as "brilliant" as you proaborts seem to think you are..... for example, we don't claim to be smarter than all dictionaries, as you guys do. So, when we see that the most commonly listed definition of a "human being" is "ANY MEMBER OF THE SPECIES HOMO SAPIENS".... we don't claim that we are too smart to believe that, and know more than the people who wrote that..... as you proaborts do.
Yeah, of course.... the proabort answer to poverty and overcrowding is ALWAYS to kill people, so there will be more room for everyone, right? But you never offer to kill yourselves, which would be the "generous" thing to do....... why is that?
Wow, Bob, you've really got us pegged! Guilty as charged!! Worse than that, actually, we go around kicking little old ladies and then laughing at them!!
But I'm puzzled about one thing, Bob..... how does that make it right for you to kill babies?

reply from: yoda

So you thought I was talking about you specifically? Hmmm....
It works like this, boinky (btw, when ARE you leaving?)......
Anytime you advocate and/or support something (like abortion), that makes you partially responsible when someone is influenced by your words and makes a decision to abort a baby.
That's what makes you a baby killer, boinky.

reply from: boinky78

[Anytime you advocate and/or support something (like abortion), that makes you partially responsible when someone is influenced by your words and makes a decision to abort a baby. ]
So if you agree with killing animals for food that makes you a bucther?and if you agree with plastic surgery that makes your a plastic surgen?
Hey I know it sounds stupid but I'm only using your logic
[That's what makes you a baby killer, boinky. ]
I don't recall killing any babies recently I also don't recalling aborting any fetuses

reply from: yoda

If you eat meat, then you are equally responsible for the slaughter of animals for food, absolutely. Didn't you know that?
You didn't understand a thing I said about responsibility, did you?

reply from: boinky78

Then that makes me a bucther yoda?I guess I'm also a plastic surgen and an abortion docter
why am I not rich right now?I'm confused
[You didn't understand a thing I said about responsibility, did you? ]
Yeah I did your saying if someone agrees with something that they are responsible but I think thats complete bull*****
that's kind of like saying just because someone is super skinny and pretty they are responsible for someone else having low self esteem
people make their own choices
I guess if I say sex feels good then someone goes out and has sex and gets pregnant it's my fualt and I should pay child support?
hey I know it might sound stupid but I'm only using your logic

reply from: jujujellybean

you aren't using anyone's logic, just plain stupidness. I can't even follow how that related to what Yoda said, so get over it. Also, I thought you were leaving. Was your flight postponed because of bad weather????

reply from: bobman

You mean like you? Yes, we do.... we need to show the idiocy of the proabort side direct from the horse's ....... mouth.
No, I mean like boinky78. I'm just responding to the call to arms and telling you folks not to troll. I could respond point-by-point to your ridiculous statements, your equating a fetus with a baby with a child with an adult human, and your equating not breeding and having babies with killing people. But that would be a waste of time. The conversation between me and you, or you and boinky78, whoever she is, is getting nowhere. Nobody is convincing anyone of anything. So I am telling dinate and the rest of you not keep your posting to your own pro-life echo chamber, or to those free-for-all debate forums, rather than starting an internet troll war.

reply from: faithman

Nice thought, but would only work if bortheads had a conscience. Most know exactly what is at stake, but don't care. These monsters do not need to be reasoned with, they simply need to be stopped.

reply from: AshMarie88

I'd rather not waste my precious time invading their space. Good luck to all who do tho.

reply from: Sporg

Feel free to go onto the pro-choice forums but you will get your asses powned.

reply from: MotherForLife

www.ehealthforum.com
There is a really good abortion debate forum there. I post there frequently. Could do with some more support against the baby killers!

reply from: Hereforareason

"Please don't. Do you appreciate having pro-choice people come and ranting on your boards? Keep your babble to yourselves.
Some pro-choice forums have forums for debate with pro-fetus types, but otherwise, you are just being trolls. Trolls that are too ignorant to recognize the difference between a fetus and a sentient human being, or to recognize that there are too many unwanted people living in misery already. "
Debate forums, debate forums. That is what they are for.
"If you pro-life people weren't a bunch of hypocrites, you would adopt all of your children instead of breeding in an already overcrowded world and creating need for more abortion."
False Dilemma! That is your opinion, and is false. First, I don't believe the world is over populated. (Like global......what is it now, cooling? or warming? ) and that has no relation to the abortion issue. The abortion issue is largely because people don't want to be responsible for their actions. Or they don't want to be inconvenienced.
Now, if you "pro-choicers" weren't hypocrites, then wouldn't you be advocating the right to do away with unwanted relatives? Annoying kids down the street? The right to take what you want from anyone? The right to rape.......aren't these also choices everyone should be allowed to make for themselves?
You will say that rape involves 2 people, and one isn't okay with it, therefore it is wrong. But you have failed to prove that there is only one person involved in an abortion.
Amber

reply from: yoda

You mean like you?
Well, I've got to agree with you there....... but then she IS one of "yours", so she is your problem, not ours. We appreciate having her proabort stupidity on display here.

reply from: jujujellybean

Hey! Nice to see someone new!
This is the site my BFF got kicked off of for posting pro life stuff. Stinks, but true!

reply from: MC3

If you guys want to do this just keep two things in mind.
First, with almost no exceptions, the kind of people who take the time to go onto a forum to defend abortion are not winnable to our side. Our argument is one founded in a simple moral principle and, as we've seen here, these people are immune to arguments based on morality. If you don't always keep this in the back of your mind, the ineffectiveness of your arguments will have a depressing effect on you. So have fun if you want, but accept that what you are doing is strictly for entertainment purposes or to sharpen your skills.
The second thing to remember is that our job is not to win these moral degenerates over, it is to stop them. They refuse to see the light, so our responsibility is to make certain they feel the heat.

reply from: MC3

If you guys want to do this just keep two things in mind.
First, with almost no exceptions, the kind of people who take the time to go onto a forum to defend abortion are not winnable to our side. Our argument is one founded in a simple moral principle and, as we've seen here, these people are immune to arguments based on morality. If you don't always keep this in the back of your mind, the ineffectiveness of your arguments will have a depressing effect on you. So have fun if you want, but accept that what you are doing is strictly for entertainment purposes or to sharpen your skills.
The second thing to remember is that our job is not to win these moral degenerates over, it is to stop them. They refuse to see the light, so our responsibility is to make certain they feel the heat.

reply from: MotherForLife

Hey! Nice to see someone new!
This is the site my BFF got kicked off of for posting pro life stuff. Stinks, but true!
Really?! Actually that doesn't surprise me much, the pro-lifers are somewhat outnumbered there. I'll be honest I tend to just lurk nowadays because I got fed up of the pro-aborts ganging up and using semantics to make themselves feel better about killing their children. Some of them on there are pro elective abortion up to full term!
I see Yodavater has joined, I shall be watching with interest!

reply from: yoda

Yep!
So far, so good....... we shall see how it progresses.......
p.s. Be forewarned.... there was a poster named "futureshock" here a few weeks ago who is posting there now, and I've been accused of going there just to "attack" him/her...... kinda funny, really.... to think I'd recall that particular proabort..... ;-)
btw, what's your handle there, MFL?

reply from: pookiy1980

http://www.prochoicetalk.com/message-board-forum/
this is another one, actually there ar4e quite a few on there who post here....

reply from: jujujellybean

Hey! Nice to see someone new!
This is the site my BFF got kicked off of for posting pro life stuff. Stinks, but true!
Really?! Actually that doesn't surprise me much, the pro-lifers are somewhat outnumbered there. I'll be honest I tend to just lurk nowadays because I got fed up of the pro-aborts ganging up and using semantics to make themselves feel better about killing their children. Some of them on there are pro elective abortion up to full term!
I see Yodavater has joined, I shall be watching with interest!
yah my friend saw a girl asking about the risks of abortion and so she responded using real facts. The moderater sent her an e-mail saying that they didn't allow strong pro life users and that she didn't want her spreading her lies. The next time my friend tried to get on, she couldn't. Sad really. I feel bad for those people persisting in lying to themselves!!!!!

reply from: MotherForLife

I don't want to say now because it seems the choicers are making a big deal out of you coming from here and I don't want more nasty pm-s.
I've been a member there for years and I used to post a lot but then I got fed up and so only post occasionally now. It is a good site I think though but a bit biased towards the choicers.
As for the mods, I think they are all pro-aborts.

reply from: jujujellybean

Actually, not true. I know of at least 2 who are pro-life.
What a surprise!
However, would MC3 let pro-choicers be mods on here?
Never.
so? I have a hard time seeing where you stand Vexing. Are you pro choice or pro life? I can't understand!

reply from: jujujellybean

Actually, not true. I know of at least 2 who are pro-life.
What a surprise!
However, would MC3 let pro-choicers be mods on here?
Never.
you know why? because this is a specific pro life website. That isn't a pro choice website, just a health one. So they can hire who they choose, but this is pro life and so the mods will be pro life, make sense???

reply from: lukesmom

Funny how "they" call themselves "prochoice" but kick off anyone who offers choices other than abortion or the true facts of abortion. Really proaborts is a much better name, although not so pc as prochoice. I really see most proaborts as antichoice...

reply from: jujujellybean

I'm talking about PCT, which stands for Pro Choice Talk.
I find it curious that a choice site allows non-choice moderators, yet this one would not?
The same thing happened with PLT (Pro Life Talk) - only Pro Life mods were allowed, no choicer mods.
Interesting, is it not?
just thought I'd let you know so you can stop while you are ahead...we were talking about the ehealthforum, not the PCT. Funny what happens when you jump in, isn't it??

reply from: yoda

So far, I've lasted two days at both PCT and eHealth. But who knows what tomorrow will bring?

reply from: labbott

I totally agree with you that it is nice to have people with different opinions write on the message board. It's not interesting to just go back and forth talking about the same things. When someone else comes in with a different opinion it is nice to be able to debate some issues.
On another note I agree that adoption is a great alternative. People might be against adoption but I know several people like you who have been adopted into to very loving families.

reply from: labbott

I am not posting these comments for my own entertainment. I am doing it because I think it is more interesting to talk to someone who has different beliefs than I do. It allows me to learn new things and hear what people with different beliefs than me have to say. It's not about winning either. It is purely to put myself out there and try to engage in conversations with people that are different than me.

reply from: Beprolifewithme

Who all has joined ehealthforums?? And what are your names?? My current one is precious child (IF i don't get kicked off again!). O yah one more thing, isn't funny how it's called eHEALTHforums?? B/c i mean abortion isn't better for your health, taking to term is MUCH safer and reduces your risk of breast cancer.... btw all of you prochoicers i don't care if you attack me now b/c of what i just said. Make up all you want and tell it to me, and guess what?? i'am not going to believe it, i don't care what you make up, i won't believe it. So why don't you reconsider sending that trashing pm or post before you hit send button, (not to mention any names!!).
Thank you, that's all,
Mary --MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

reply from: yoda

So far, I've had about the same experience on both eHealth and PCT, the proaborts jump all over me, and try to demand that I conform to their way of posting (in favor of abortion, of course), but so far the moderators have left me completely alone. Of course, I try hard not to be provoked.
I think it's funny that some of the posters there call PLA "a bunch of terrorists" and try to impugn my honesty because I post here..... I wonder why they come here, if they really think that?

reply from: MC3

Vexing:
You are finally right about something. I would never let a "pro-choicer" moderate this forum.
Although I find it hard to imagine that I am having to address this issue again, here goes. Try to stay with me.
The pro-life position is one founded in a moral principle and, as we've seen demonstrated here on many occasions, people who support legal abortion are immune to arguments based on morality. Having recognized that many years ago, I adopted two philosophies under which I still operate. The first one is that we are soldiers in a war that people like you are waging against the unborn. The second is that the goal of war is not to convert the enemy but to stop them.
For these reasons, I did not create this forum to win anyone over but as a vehicle for pro-lifers to communicate with each other, share ideas, and stay informed. I trust that explanation will help you understand why we don't have pro-aborts as moderators.
With that established, you need to be aware that you are allowed on this forum only to serve as foils for our amusement and exercise to keep our skills sharp. If that arrangement is satisfactory, stay. If not, I'll repeat what I have said to others before. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

reply from: jujujellybean

Yoda did you get kicked off?

reply from: yoda

That's because there is no other "choice" for life...... except life.
"Death" is not a valid choice for "life"....... didn't you know?

reply from: yoda

Tell that to the proaborts on the other forum!
Of course, what's not so funny is how quickly a prolifer gets jumped on (over there) for "suspicion that you may be thinking bad thoughts", and yet the proaborts get to slam, abuse, slander, vilify, and just generally make personal attacks on prolifers without a peep from the moderators.

reply from: yoda

Well, so far several proabort posters have given me orders on how "not to post", but the moderators haven't said a word to me.
I guess the proabort think of themselves as "moderator's little helpers".

reply from: MC3

In replying to my previous post, Vexing wrote, "Another prime example of America's wretched public education system. So tell me, why/when did you stop typing people's names in OMGCAPS?"
Am I missing something here? Can anyone read my post and conclude that her response relates to anything I said? I'm beginning to suspect that Vexing might be sitting in a sanatorium somewhere wearing a tin foil hat and making baskets out of popsicle sticks.

reply from: yoda

That's just the proabort way of waving the white flag, without actually admitting defeat, Mark......

reply from: MC3

It appears that my "tin foil hat / popsicle stick baskets" speculation about Vexing may have been accurate.

reply from: jujujellybean

Tell that to the proaborts on the other forum!
Of course, what's not so funny is how quickly a prolifer gets jumped on (over there) for "suspicion that you may be thinking bad thoughts", and yet the proaborts get to slam, abuse, slander, vilify, and just generally make personal attacks on prolifers without a peep from the moderators.
someone said something about a choice...I'm thinking that idea just got bashed into millions of little pieces.

reply from: jujujellybean

what the heck is she talking about??? I read both your posts and whatever she said made about as much sense as the pro choice argument being valid, which, as we all know, is about as little as an atom, and so on and so forth...I think you may be right, MC3. I asked her several things and each time, the subject magically transformed into something I hadn't even heard of. Good to know its not just me!

reply from: whydeath

I have actually been a member on the PCA site. I have not posted there in a long time gosh so long I don't even remember my user name..I see many of the pro-aborts that have come through here are also on that page.
I got tired of going there and the same old topics over and over nobody ever brought anything new to the board. I know this site often gets "distracted" from the topic starter as any debate boards but geez that one? horrible! by page 2 it turned into the same argument as every other post.
I don't know I may go back there again and lurk see if anything has changed and maybe post again.

reply from: jujujellybean

Dude, seriously, your projection is cute, but kinda creepy.
WTF is a popsicle stick basket anyway?
Clearly the insanity is coming from within, MC3.
Seek help dude.
ok, that's the point. You're off on a tangent NO ONE understands.
Please don't use WTF. I have seen that so many times from choicers that its gotten on my nerves REALLY bad. Boinky uses it every other word.
By the way, so you don't humiliate yourself in the future like Syrenity did: MC3 is Mark Cutcher, founder of Life Dynamics. Just sos you know you are talking to a pro!

reply from: jujujellybean

Unless it gets word filtered, I'm going to use it.
It's not a 'choicer' word, it's used by billions across the web.
Who?
He's a prostitute?
in my book its a choicer word.
No, a pro in this business. he founded the life dynamics business thing and this website. Syrenity once told he he had no handle on this website and that he couldn't kick her off, only managers could! LOL!

reply from: yoda

What "lifer" have you seen using "anti-choice" lately?
THIS is HIS website.....not yours.

reply from: yoda

Okay, when have you seen a prolifer use that acronym?
And the point is...... you're here by his permission.

reply from: yoda

And how about here, since we don't really know the people there?

reply from: yoda

Hey, if this place is so irrelevant..... why do so many baby killers like you come here to plead your case for killing babies?

reply from: RedTaintedRose

Put up or shut up vater.. please provide me with a copy of the death and birth certificates of babies I have killed and which state this crime was prosecuted in.
You are nothing but a bag of hot air with a limited vocabulary.
WTF is your excuse for living?

reply from: jujujellybean

What "lifer" have you seen using "anti-choice" lately?
THIS is HIS website.....not yours.
thanks Yoda, she sorta dense!

reply from: jujujellybean

not really since it is a valid question. You just are calling it that so you won't have to answer it!

reply from: jujujellybean

Put up or shut up vater.. please provide me with a copy of the death and birth certificates of babies I have killed and which state this crime was prosecuted in.
You are nothing but a bag of hot air with a limited vocabulary.
WTF is your excuse for living?
you are supporting the killing of babies, a team member. You would support any woman who decided to kill her child. That's pretty bad, if you ask me. Not that different either!

reply from: lukesmom

I am sooo glad you could get such a cheap laugh. I would tell you to grow up but you are beyond that. Here is a laugh for you: This is Luke. He was born at 36 weeks and he lived for 45 minutes. This picture was taken soon after he died. Love to tell you how long but geez his dying was SOOOO funny! It won't let me copy and paste his picture but here is a link. Laugh yourself sick.
http://prenatalpartnersforlife.org/Stories/StoriesAnencephaly_lucas.htm

Vexing, you are a moron.

reply from: lukesmom

*Rolls eyes*
Yes, because I was laughing at YOUR baby, specifically, every time I made a crack about running away from the evil speculums.
Typical lifer tactic, unrelated appeal to emotion with the intention of feeling guilt for something that has nothing to do with the choicer.
WTF are you trying to say here?
That my laughter killed your baby?
What is wrong with you?
I was definantly not appealing to your "emotion" as I highly doubt that you have evolved to the level of having any beyond the most primative. I am trying to open your eyes to what life and DEATH really is. No, your ignorant, annoying laughter did not kill my baby because I didn't let abortionists like you come near my baby. He died a natural death of natural causes, but before he died, he lived. Dispite you baby killers. Now I ask YOU... "What is wrong with YOU?"

reply from: jujujellybean

I am sooo glad you could get such a cheap laugh. I would tell you to grow up but you are beyond that. Here is a laugh for you: This is Luke. He was born at 36 weeks and he lived for 45 minutes. This picture was taken soon after he died. Love to tell you how long but geez his dying was SOOOO funny! It won't let me copy and paste his picture but here is a link. Laugh yourself sick.
http://prenatalpartnersforlife.org/Stories/StoriesAnencephaly_lucas.htm
">http://prenatalpartnersforlife...phaly_lucas.htm
Vexing, you are a moron.
oh I'm so sorry. My mom had a miscarriage last summer and it was the most awful experience. I don't know which is worse, being able to see your baby or not being able to ever see it. Both are really, really painful. I'm so sorry for your loss.

reply from: jujujellybean

You are supporting dangerous and illegal back-room abortions.
By denying women a procedure that is safe for them.
That is terrible.
You're advocating the death of women AND their 'preborns'.
since WHEN was abortion safe for either the baby or the woman? Planned Parenthood describes their vacuum procedure as 'gentle suction', when it is ten times more powerful than any vacuum. Also, almost all the women that have abortions are emotionally scarred for life. Read this story:
Hello all...
I became familiar with this website after one of my good friends told me about it. I would like to share My own personal experience with abortion. I feel I should do so, because I would take back what I did in an instant if I could. I wouldn't want anyone to make the same decision I made.
I had been dating my boyfriend at the time (Jerry) for over 2 1/2 years when we decided to have sex. I was 15 years old when this happened. One day in the summer time, we were alone in his parents house. We decided to have sex, and the condom broke without either of us knowing. When I noticed what had happened, I cried all the way home. I prayed
for weeks that I wouldn't wind up pregnant...but it happened. I missed my period, and started dealing with Morning Sickness on a daily basis.
I had been brought up in a religious family, both of my parents and my sisters and I attended church faithfully every Sunday. My parents brought me up that I should wait until marriage to have sex. So...this was VERY hard for me to deal with. I couldn't go to my parents for advise, and I wouldn't dare tell them what had happened. Jerry was somewhat supportive, but was completely against having the baby. I was caught between what I knew was right (to have my baby), and what I thought would "make the problem go away", which was abortion.
At 10 weeks...one of our friends drove us to the clinic. I lied, and said I was 18 years old. We didn't have enough money for me to be put asleep, so I paid for the "general anesthesia". I was petrified, plus also dealing with the emotional trauma of knowing what I was about to do. I was told to sit in a small "changing closet" with a robe on until it was my turn. The girl ahead of me went in...and I could hear her screaming at the top of her lungs. She wound up going into shock on the
table, and was taken away in an ambulance. Still...I waited my turn. I climbed onto the table, and looked around the room, which was lined with clear glass "jars" containing the remains from each abortion done before me. I couldn't believe what I was doing. When they injected me withthe anesthesia, a shooting pain tore through my stomach. I looked at the nurse who was holding my hand and I began to cry uncontrollably.
They asked me if I wanted to continue, and I said "yes". They turned the vacuum on, and began scraping the walls of my uterus. I have NEVER in my life experience such pain...both physical and emotional. I closed my eyes and tried to clear my mind from feeling the vacuum pull on my insides. I felt like I was lying there forever...like it was never going to end. When I heard the vacuum shut off, I opened my eyes. I saw another clear jar on the wall with my name written across it. It was done. I couldn't take back what I did. I just sat there and stared at that jar. What had I done???? That was my baby in there...
I was sent home and told to take a pill each day, out of a bottle which was given to me unlabeled. I was in pain and bled for the next two
weeks.
I am now 26 years old. I deal with the emotional damage of what I did quite often. I have nightmares, reliving what happened in that clinic. I don't know what your situation is, it may be similar to mine, and it may not. But I can give you this advise. Choose Life. The pain you'd go through isn't worth it. I'm 26 years old...and its never gotten any easier to deal with. I know in my heart that God forgave me for what I did. I'm still trying to forgive myself. Its just not that easy...and
I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I'm still going through.
All it takes is one look at my niece and my nephew...and that
quickly...I realize what a mistake I made. Those tiny little hands, those beautiful eyes...the way they can make a miserable day all better with one smile at me. I let that all go. I would never do it again. I'd take it back if I could...but I can't. Don't make the mistake I made.
Stacey

from http://www.geocities.com/pregnancyhelpnow/truestories.html

Google abortion stories and read all the stuff that comes up. Stories of the trauma and the pain that it brings. How could you want that for a woman? You say you don't want to oppress woman, but how is letting them kill their baby and be in emotional distress for the rest of their lives better than just having the baby? Would you then say that it was their choice and that they did it to themselves? Educate yourself on the aftermath and maybe you won't think its so great!!!!!! I don't think that its a safe procedure, not even to mention that only half the people that go in come out!

reply from: jujujellybean

you want woman to have the choice to be able to hurt themselves physically and emotionally. How Dare YOU?
And about illegal abortions...well, they shouldn't have gotten pregnant.
And another thing: people will murder whether or not its legal. Same diff.

reply from: deannat

It's statements like the ones above that confirm the belief of many pro-choicers that pro-lifers only seek to punish women for having sex and that they have as much love and compassion for born people as a cactus.
In some Muslim countries, such as Saudia Arabia, woman are not allowed to have surgery of any kind without the permission of a male relative. The reason behind that is that women are thought to lack the intellect and maturity required to make important decisions about their medical care. I have come to the conclusion that many pro-lifers in the U.S. have the same attitude about women with regards to abortionl. They think women are just too stupid and immature to be trusted with important decisions about their own reproductive health so such decisions must be legislated for them.
Do people realize what is being advocated here? You are advocating that should my 22 year old daughter find herself in a crisis pregnancy situation and need an abortion she should be forced to suffer. The fact that she has a medical condition which would make it difficult, though not impossible, for her to carry a pregnancy to term matters nothing to you. It is also none of your business. Whether or not she carries a pregnancy to term is up to her and her God. It is not up to me, you, the government or someone else's God.

reply from: lisa11

Nice thought, but would only work if bortheads had a conscience. Most know exactly what is at stake, but don't care. These monsters do not need to be reasoned with, they simply need to be stopped.

reply from: deannat

Many women ('bortheads' as you call them) chose to have an abortion because they HAVE a conscience and realise they are not financially, emotionally or physically capable of bringing a child into the world and that raising that child, given their circumstances - it would simple screw up two lives instead of one (sometime three, due to a male having to pay child support he cannot afford for the next 18 years).
There are plenty of things worse than being dead.
Have you ever considered that?
Vexing, I think that was Lisa's first post and she sent it right after she quoted another message . That last paragraph wasn't hers.

reply from: yoda

Total strawman. No one has advocated eliminating "early deliveries" as an option for pregnant women with life-threatening conditions.
You are simply creating opposing positions that do not exist, and knocking them down.

reply from: deannat

Total strawman. No one has advocated eliminating "early deliveries" as an option for pregnant women with life-threatening conditions.
You are simply creating opposing positions that do not exist, and knocking them down.
It's not just life-threatening situations I'm referring to. Some women just don't have the mental and physical stamina that is required to go through pregnancy. I don't believe that they should be forced to do so against their will. Do you?

reply from: lukesmom

What kind of mental and physical stamina are you referring to? Could you please elaborate?

reply from: deannat

Mental: women who kill themselves, whether it be due to the idea of the pregnancy itself, or the hormonal imbalances (brain chemistry). While most woman have the required equipment to have children, that does not mean they have the mental fortitude.
Physical: women with various physical conditions. I know of two women who have died in childbirth, simply because they were not physically capable of surviving labour. If abortion had been legal (and safe) back then, I'd possibly have two female relatives still alive.
Correct. I had a female relative die just two days after giving birth in 1940 at the age of 24. Her kidneys were destroyed by gestational diabetes and high blood pressure brought on by her pregnancy. Even today, when these complications can be treated and controlled successfully, there is still a grave risk to the mother when they are present.

reply from: Babsi

If it has a mind, a heart, lungs, hands, feet, legs, arms, eyes, nose, ears, lips and so on, does it not make that a human being? Really if it is ok to kill an UNBORN FETUS then surely its ok for a serial killer to kill someone, and then go home eat his dinner, and sleep it off until the next day when he can do it all over again. How can a so called doctor look into his childrens eyes when he goes home from a day of MURDER and tell his kids that he loves them. How can any one look into the eyes of someone who is a part of them and tell them they love them, when they just opted to MURDER a human, who was breathing in the womb. Did you know that by the 20th week, the baby can already cry. The baby has a sense of touch, hearing, and smell. Is that not a human? I look at my son everyday and cant understand why people would want to kill such a precious thing. If it was because they didnt want to become parents, i assume they didnt get the memo that CONDOMS do exist. So because it was HER fault that she got pregnant, she takes it out on a life that cant say anything. The next time all you PROCHOICERS are sitting there supporting what is basically a billion dollar MURDER industry, just know that, you just decided to put our future politicians in the dumpster.

reply from: Babsi

Correct. I had a female relative die just two days after giving birth in 1940 at the age of 24. Her kidneys were destroyed by gestational diabetes and high blood pressure brought on by her pregnancy. Even today, when these complications can be treated and controlled successfully, there is still a grave risk to the mother when they are present.
So you kill the baby? Thats about as lame an excuse as the Pope saying he didnt want to be a Hitler Youth.

reply from: deannat

So you kill the baby? Thats about as lame an excuse as the Pope saying he didnt want to be a Hitler Youth.
You would prefer that the baby lose its mother and the husband lose his wife?
The woman I refer to above was my great aunt. The "baby" is my second cousin. When my aunt died, her husband was so devastated that after her funeral he handed my cousin to my grandmother and left town, never to be heard from again. My cousin is 67 years old and still hasn't overcome the guilt. Do I think he would be better off dead? Of course not! However, if that same situation were to happen today, I would hope that both the woman and her husband would have a choice. In 1940 they didn't.

reply from: angell

Why are you on this forum?And hell does exist for disgusting people like you.

reply from: deannat

Guess you don't believe the part of the Bible that says "Judge ye not lest ye be judged."

reply from: angell

I guess you didn't read the 10 commandments in the bible where it says "thou shall not kill." I am not judging, if you are murderer then thats what you are. Don't be offended by what is true.

reply from: deannat

Ever wonder why the Jews don't consider abortion wrong? The Ten Commandments were originally written in Hebrew. The literal translation of "Thou shall not kill" is "Thou shall not murder". Nowhere in the Torah or the Bible does it say that abortion is murder.

reply from: jadams

In fact, the Talmud, which is the basis for Jewish law, does not consider a child alive until it takes its first breath.

reply from: MC3

Vexing:
You say it is wrong to call you a murderer since you have never taken a human life. On that basis, would you also object if I said that Adolf Hitler was a murderer? After all, there is no evidence that he ever personally murdered anyone other than himself. Technically speaking, all he did was foster an environment in which millions were murdered. In other words, Hitler's relationship to the Jews burning in the ovens of German death camps was exactly the same as your relationship to the unborn children ground up in the garbage disposals of American death camps. And by the way, both holocausts were legal at the time and in the countries in which they occurred.
So in fact, the justification for calling you a murderer is no different than the justification for calling Hitler a murderer. The only distinction between the pro-choice mob and the Nazis is in the number of victims. People like you are responsible for far more killings than any Nazi thug who ever lived.
So what about it; according to your standards, was Hitler a murderer?

reply from: yoda

You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, don't you?
If they don't have the "stamina" to go through with a pregnancy (according to a competent physican), that IS a life-threatening condition......

reply from: MC3

Vexing:
To begin with, contrary to the lie you just told, Hitler's actions were not illegal at the time and in the countries where they occurred. They were found to be crimes against humanity later at Nuremburg. We now acknowledge slavery as a crime against humanity also, but that does not mean it was illegal when it was practiced in America.
As for your inane suggestion that I am advocating the deaths of the mothers who submit to illegal abortions, let me point out that there is a perfect way to protect women against them without butchering millions of their defenseless children.
The first thing to keep in mind is that pro-lifers don't do abortions. If abortion were outlawed today and illegal abortionists started springing up next week, every one of them would be someone who is pro-choice. In fact, every woman who was ever killed or maimed during an abortion - whether it was legal or illegal - was killed or maimed by someone who was pro-choice. In other words, when people like you say, "If abortion is made illegal, women will die," what you're actually saying is, "If you stop us from killing babies, we're going to start killing women."
So clearly, the solution to the back-alley abortion problem is for those of you in the pro-choice gang to agree not to do them. You could also help us pass legislation requiring that, (a) people who commit illegal abortions are to be prosecuted under the same homicide statutes that apply to any other hired killer and, (b) anyone who coerces a woman to have an illegal abortion, or helps to arrange an illegal abortion, is to be charged as an accessory to homicide.
Of course, everyone knows that you people are never going to agree to this because you never cared about this issue to begin with. You simply use it to make it look like we are responsible for the pregnant women you are threatening to kill. The fact is, every time one of you moral degenerates starts screaming about dirty coat-hangers and back-alley abortions, the blood you are talking about is on your hands - not ours. And that is not an opinion, that is a fact!
So let's get this straight once and for all. We are done being extorted for your abhorrent behavior. If you don't like the idea that women die from abortions, then don't kill them.

reply from: MC3

Vexing:
First, you say that when abortion is illegal the people who do them won't all be pro-choice. That is pure nonsense. Some may have additional motives such as greed, but that would be no different than it is today. I suspect that I have had far more contact with people in the abortion industry than you, and I can assure you that there are a variety of reasons people are involved with it. But everyone will tell you that they are pro-choice and that would be true for people who might do them illegally as well.
I must admit, however, I am bewildered how someone could be blackmailed or coerced into doing illegal abortions as you suggested. Of the hundreds of people I've been associated with in the abortion business, I've never met one who told me that.
In any event, it is laughable to say that all the people who do abortions are not pro-choice. And that is true whether we're talking about legal abortions or illegal abortions. So again, if women die from illegal abortions, it will be people just like you who kill them. It certainly won't be pro-lifers and, like I said, we are not going to be held responsible for the pregnant women you people are threatening to kill.
Additionally, I never said that pro-choice people are the only moral degenerates around. My argument has always been that you are simply the lowest and most cowardly moral degenerates around.
Second, your ignorance of history is breathtaking. In America, slavery did not end, as you claim, "because society judged it wrong." It ended as a result of an economic war fought between two regions of the country with conflicting financial interests. The ending of slavery was certainly not the motivation for the war, but it was a consequence of it.
As for abortion, it did not become legal "because the consensus of society deemed it right." The fact is, in the years leading up to Roe, the pro-abortion forces had been spectacularly unsuccessful in their efforts to legalize abortion through the political process. They had discovered that there was little pubic support for legalized abortion and that is precisely why they turned to the courts. In the end, abortion became decriminalized because seven old men in black robes proclaimed it so. It had nothing to do with society's feelings one way or the other.
Regarding Hitler, it is preposterous to say that his "own people saw the wrongs of his work." Only a moron could study that period of history and conclude that Hitler was anything but wildly popular with his countrymen. In fact, most people who have looked at this phenomenon have concluded that Hitler's popularity was literally cult-like. Let me propose that you read John Toland's book, Adolf Hitler. It may prevent you from making such idiotic statements in the future.
Finally, your assertion that "... the majority of world opinion was not behind him" is both unproven and irrelevant. The issue at hand was not what the world thought of Hitler, but what his own people thought of him and whether what he was doing was illegal or not.

reply from: Hereforareason

"Not hard to believe. You're in the NZ military, right? Their war veterans are 3 old guys that played volleyball on a British carrier during WWII... Their motto is "Can we talk about this?" Go, fighting Kiwis! LOL!"
That was rather low ConcernedParent. Nothing to do with the debate.
"By the same token, you are murderer, since you wish to foster an environment where illegal back-room abortions are a woman's only option for termination."
Where was it stated that we are for illegal abortion? I think that is still a form of abortion which takes the life of mother and child. Am I right?
"You advocate not only the death of the child, you advocate the death of the mother.
What does that make you, a double murderer?"
um...........no. Abortion will kill woman legal or not. It is wrong.
"Besides, what Hitler did was illegal. The entire world sees it as a crime."
What did Hitler do that was illegal? He just wanted to clear out the inferior people to make room for the better ones. Funny, isn't that what Margaret Sanger wanted? She wanted to open up free clinics to wipe out the Hispanics. Sound familiar?

"Abortion is a hugely divided subject and quite legal in many countries.
As far as I'm concerned, it's not murder. "
We know that. What is murder? What about an infant that is too much of a bother to the mother?
Amber

reply from: angell

All these bitches who support abortion are a bunch of *****s who ***** around and are too selfish to take responsibility. Talking to them is like talking to a piece of*****in the toilet. They have no regard for a human being. At least all the babies who were slaughtered will be in heaven while the whores will be in the darkness of hell forever.

reply from: 4given

For me it is difficult to tell if you are an earnest poster. That seems like quite an extreme and hostile opinion.

reply from: angell

I truly value preborn babies as human beings that deserve life as God intended. They deserve protection from the wicked and love from the strong.

reply from: 4given

What, you mean like Faithman?
No. He is an earnest poster.

reply from: 4given

.. even if he is extreme in response, or appears to be hostile.. the unborn are his passion.

reply from: 4given

I agree with that. I understand the passion behind the calling to save our future from a savage death. I had disdain for the aborting few that I knew. After coming here though, I realized the pro-abortion posters here are either uneducated, never had an abortion, or were so cold to the life within a womb, that they dehumanize it. The "clump-o-cells" bit. Some don't care. Others don't understand. Can you imagine the reality of an abortion..finding and troubling you, even if the reality of that choice exists in the future? God forgives.

reply from: RedTaintedRose

Still waiting on those death and birth certificates vater...

reply from: RedTaintedRose

Because yodavater is a classic coward. you pro-liar morons missed a great website; I can understand the evasion though; none of you spineless nitwits has the fortitude to play the pro-liar control game with a bunch of pro-choice feminists.
If any of you have the collective courage of the cowardly lion I invite you to girlnation.org come talk to real women.
We have young women; older women; mothers; supporters who've never been pregnant; supporters who have had an abortion.. a fair selection of women from across the globe.
I dare you.. or you prove you really are a craven clique feeding off each other.

reply from: Hereforareason

"I dare you.. or you prove you really are a craven clique feeding off each other."
Or that there is some sense involved in choosing who to spend time on. There is a time when people have lied to themselves for so long that they seem unreachable. Even so, I fear we do cast a lot of pearls to swine.
Your comment is your opinion, not truth.
Amber

reply from: joe

redtaintedrose you have a lot of courage to call me a coward. A mistake on your part. If you question my strength I will gladly demonstrate it to you in person, but i suggest otherwise. Preborn baby killers are the obvious cowards killing the defenseless.

reply from: 4given

I agree with that. I understand the passion behind the calling to save our future from a savage death. I had disdain for the aborting few that I knew. After coming here though, I realized the pro-abortion posters here are either uneducated, never had an abortion, or were so cold to the life within a womb, that they dehumanize it. The "clump-o-cells" bit. Some don't care. Others don't understand. Can you imagine the reality of an abortion..finding and troubling you, even if the reality of that choice exists in the future? God forgives.
Or perhaps we simply don't believe in your fictional god.
So leave God out of it. Believe as you wish. The reality is that abortion kills an innocent being. How can that be justified? Morally or otherwise?

reply from: 4given

Look inside your fridge.
How many innocent beings were killed to produce what is in there?
I have cheese (goat and cow produced). I have a lot of vegetables and wraps, water,carrot, grape, pineapple juice and wine. Maybe the feta and chaddar could be back on the shelf. They are from an organic farmer. Do you suppose they were brutalized while producing the milk that led to our feast?

reply from: joe

You would never understand

reply from: joe

4given your posts show compassion and understanding. I admire your fight for the unborn.

reply from: yoda

~BUMP~ for anyone who wants to see MC3's statement on page 2 about why proaborts are allowed to post here.

reply from: faithman

What, you mean like Faithman?
No. He is an earnest poster.
I was referring to the 'extreme and hostile' part.
I make no excuses, nor apologies for being hostile towards a scum bag maggot low life advocate of womb child slaughter. Some monsters deserve no respect, and are actually an amusing diversion from the true intent of this forum as stated by its owner. This is a place for net working between PLers. It has been a major tool for us to get the IAAP card all across the country. It has been amusing to see pro-aborts tell their lies, and have the audasity to tell us how to conduct ourselves on our forum. You putred little witches should stick to your profain useless forums if you don't like it here. It also makes me a little sad. Such dark souls. Such evil beings. I find no humor in the fact that it is obvious you have been turned over to your reprobate minds, and there is little chance you will escape the eternal midnight of the bottomless pit.


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