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This is what a real abortoin looks like

by: kayluvzchoice

Not a stillborn...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/severedsoulmate/abortion-1.jpg
Real tearjerker, huh? It really pulls a heart muscle. It it doesn't touch you, you are cold-hearted. **sarcasm**

reply from: MC3

To see the unvarnished truth of what a real abortion looks like, visit AbortionNo.com.

reply from: jujujellybean

that is so sad. Look at what we are doing to over 3000 people each day. Poor things, I feel so heartbroken. Kay where did you get that weird thing? That is not what it really looks like!

reply from: jujujellybean

kay I dare you to visit that site and see what they REALLY do to babies in the womb. I dare ya.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

abortionno.com is obviously biased. I have seen the pictures of mutilated stillborns you psychos parade around with. They are fake.

reply from: boinky78

It's funny how people are more likly to believe a video of someone poking stillborns with sticks but they won't believe what a real abortion looks like 0_o

reply from: Mlynnbrrtt

You know it saddens me that people can be so self-deluding.... believe only what they want to believe JUST because they want to believe it. Why don't you find your information from a MEDICAL site instead of a biased site? How can you be sure that those pictures are FACT and TRUTH when many of them have been debunked by doctors and experts as fake. Most of the

reply from: jujujellybean

well, how do we not know that Kay's is not biased? Her opinion is no better than mine!!!

reply from: 4given

AWAKEN A GENERATION GOD!http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/rmsalter5/Livewithyourchoice.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/rmsalter5/garbaget.gif
ENLIGHTEN, ENCOURAGE and EDUCATE THIS LAND, CHILDREN of GOD!

reply from: kayluvzchoice

4given:
Those pics are not real. First trimester fetuses are not as developed as those stillborns you are exploiting.
Pictures of fetuses in the first trimester.
http://www.wpclinic.org/parenting/fetal-development/first-trimester/

reply from: AshMarie88

Linking a photo from photobucket doesn't "prove" anything.

reply from: AshMarie88

Dead 8 week old parasite:
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/AbortionPictures/08_weeks-08.jpg
Alive 8 week old parasite:
http://www.ehd.org/images/prenatal_imagegal/4D_FA08w2d_earlyMovement-th.jpg

reply from: 4given

I appreciate the images you have provided. I value the gift of life and grieve over the lives lost to this ignorant and callous generation because of the lies this wicked generation chooses to believe about abortion. I know the images are a reality, as the trash can future was an abortionists paycheck. Why do you believe otherwise? Why won't you accept the truth about abortion? Is it personal? Is it political? What cause do you personally serve, to discredit the potential in human life or the value therein? I do not understand. Why is the destruction of our future important to you? God, please help this Nation understand the truth about abortion. Please let the the Blood of Our Savior Jesus Christ seep into the open wounds of this country and the wounded hearts of the questioning. Oh precious is the flow, that can make me white as snow. WHAT CAN WASH AWAY MY SINS? NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS! May You please Father God touch this being and help her realize the potential You have for her life. Enlighten, uplift and guide her to the reality of abortion and the wrong that has led her to take a stance against You. Against her generation, against the generation before her and those to come. Awaken her heart, fill her mind with clarity and her voice with strength. Revive her from her wickedness. Let her realize the precious gift of Your Love and Your gift of LIFE-In the womb and eternally. I thank you and praise You and Love You Lord, and In Your Name, AMEN! The womb will be a protected place again and I know this in Jesus Name. Guide them Lord, let the moral outcry for justice be heard, as the womb children are denied their precious voice.

reply from: Banned Member

Honestly, all I can do is roll my eyes. What really gets me is that 95% of Christians I encounter on these types of forums aren't acting from their hearts, as you would let people believe. If that were the case, you'd say your little prayer to your self, leave your message at I will pray for you, & continue on with the conversation in a logical way. but no, that's not what you do. Instead you post this very long, boring 'prayer', which in reality is your version of putting her in her place. It's rude, sarcastic. condescending, & hypocritical. I suggest that if you want to be Pro-Life, you start by getting one of your own.

reply from: jujujellybean

seriously, praying helps, but arguing with people plants seeds that can flower. If you argue back in the way they do, sometimes it comes as a shock and awakens them. Sometimes, then again, it doesn't. There are a few such people on this forum who I will not name.

reply from: yoda

The photo linked in the first post is so mangled that one cannot discern what it actually is.
Babies are not aborted so early that they cannot be recognized, mostly because they can't even be detected by their mother that early. They are generally aborted at between 8 and 10 weeks, when limbs, head, fingers, toes, intestines, and other organs are recognizable.
Any reputable medical website will show you the truth of this matter, it is pointless to argue with the proaborts about it.

reply from: 4given

Actually you are quite wrong. I pray from the heart when led to. Asking for God to heal this Nation and to guide others to the reality of abortion is not, as you accuse- rude, sarcastic, condescending or hypocritical. Not all Christians share the same faith. I was led to pray specifically how I did. The Spirit led me to. I am required to be obedient to God. Perhaps it touched something within you. I suggest that you ask God to forgive you for turning your back on Him and advocating the demise of His children. The fact that Kay was included in the prayer, was because God called me to pray for her. I am not led to pray for all of my enemies. I do not typically care about one's choices and their footpath to hell. I am not interested in your opinion. I am disgusted by most of the pro-abort venom and lies. I find it to be a waste of time to engage in conversations with those that lack morals and truth.

reply from: Banned Member

The only thing it touched within me is a gag reflex.
Honestly, I would love to debate abortion laws with someone that is not a Christian. And I have, within the pagan community a time or two. At least their arguments are more logical. All your arguments can be boiled down to it being an affront to God. When are you people going to wake up to the fact that this is not a Christian Nation, that we don't all have to bow down to your ethical code.
If life is so precious to your God, why then have there been millions slain in his name? I think very little of your God & I thank the Universe every day that he doesn't really exist.

reply from: Beprolifewithme

Kayluvschoice,
Go to youtube and type in silent scream 1, 2, then three, watch them in order. And maybe you'll actually try to turn those wheels, that are trying to turn in your head but u won't let them.

reply from: boinky78

[Go to youtube and type in silent scream 1, 2, then three, watch them in order.]
Those videos are not real
they're proplife propaganda

reply from: jujujellybean

ok thats stupid. I base my views on science, duh, not religion!

reply from: boinky78

[ok thats stupid. I base my views on science, duh, not religion! ]
O really?then why won't you take a persons opinion into consideration if they're gay and liberal?

reply from: jujujellybean

sure I do, but when someone is posting something because they are gay and liberal, and have that stark of an agenda, then I don't want to waste my time on it!!!!!

reply from: boinky78

[sure I do, but when someone is posting something because they are gay and liberal, and have that stark of an agenda, then I don't want to waste my time on it!!!!! ]
I sometimes wonder how people become so ignorant
why not go find a source where the person isnt gay?
gays arent the only ones saying the earth is over populated

reply from: yoda

It's probably because abortion kills many of the smartest people.......

reply from: jujujellybean

oh than what's Kays? Isn't that just pro choice propaganda? I know you won't answer this but oh well.

reply from: jujujellybean

never said they were. But you will notice that most of them are pro abortion, liberal, perhaps gay or lesbian, and support birth control. There is a pattern, really when you think about it.

reply from: boinky78

[never said they were. But you will notice that most of them are pro abortion, liberal, perhaps gay or lesbian, and support birth control.]
So you totally support making generalizations?

reply from: boinky78

[oh than what's Kays? Isn't that just pro choice propaganda? I know you won't answer this but oh well. ]
Why would the prochoice argument be based off of lies?Prochoice doesnt mean "GET ABORTIONS THEIR FUN"
Make your own choice if you choose abortion isnt what you agreew ith fine
but Am I going to post pictures of people poking stillborns with sticks to scare people?No I'd just post what a real abort looks like

reply from: jujujellybean

how do you know what is real and what isn't? How do you know ours are doctored and yours aren't? Are you an all knowing life form?
Also to clear it up; Pro life doesn't mean OPPRESS WOMENS RIGHTS BECAUSE WE WANT TO AVE ABUSED CHILDREN. I think that some people out there might think this is what we think, so thought I'd post the truth.

reply from: boinky78

[how do you know what is real and what isn't?]
Because I have seen an abortion with my own eyes and not videos of people poking fetuses with sticks with a sad violen song playing in the backround
[OPPRESS WOMENS RIGHTS BECAUSE WE WANT TO AVE ABUSED CHILDREN.]
I never used that argument because I know that's not true

reply from: Hereforareason

"Because I have seen an abortion with my own eyes and not videos of people poking fetuses with sticks with a sad violen song playing in the backround
"
So what is it then? How far along was the pregnancy you saw aborted?
Amber

reply from: boinky78

[So what is it then? How far along was the pregnancy you saw aborted? ]
I saw an abortion here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/twenty/watch/abortion.html
Click on helenas or barbaras abortion
but it's very hard to find abortions online because most websites are prolife websites with pictures of stillborns
I know people get abortions later then that but it rarely happens I think only 1% of abortions happen that far along but I can't be sure

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Here is a chart that shows when most abortions took place in 2002 in the US...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USAbortionbyGestationalAgeChart2002.png
I doubt any pro-lifer will believe it, though.

reply from: 4given

Why would you say that?
It is recognized that most women make appointments around 7 weeks, because that is when their pregnancy is confirmed.

reply from: Hereforareason

It doesn't matter how young the child is. It is there and from conception it has all of the information needed to grow up.
Amber

reply from: kayluvzchoice

4given:
I said that because barely anyone has believed anything we have said in this forum, even if supported by proof.

reply from: NewMom

If we put Religion and science aside, as human beings we are still left with morals. You guys can post as many pics of abortions and it still doesn't stop them from happening. You can type sentance after sentance in here, and argue every point from every angle, but what do you do to stop it?

reply from: 4given

Who are you guys? And your time here is to..

reply from: NewMom

Who am I or this strange abundance of newbies?

reply from: 4given

Who did you mean by "you guys.."

reply from: NewMom

Who are you guys? And your time here is to..
Hi 4given! "You guys" was as a large generalization, the people I've noticed over time who come in here and post a bazillion pictures, saying "See! Look! An abortion!" I don't question the pictures and their effectiveness - for me looking at them while being pregnant is especially effective and reassures me that I'm keeping this child for a reason. What I question is the people who post a picture and think that as a prolifer they've somehow contributed to the fight. All I'm saying is it goes deeper than that.

reply from: 4given

So again, you come here to offer what to the pro-life cause? I know you are happy with your choice/pregnancy. That sentiment won't fly with everyone. I suspect women come here scared and uncertain of what they should do. What is your sollution? How have you contributed on the forum or to the "fight". It is awefully presumptuous of you to pop in and have anything to say about what should have been done., when you have been off in your own garden, absent from "the fight". (not speaking of your pro-life resource in Canada either) This applies to the forum.

reply from: NewMom

Life does exist outside the forum! I don't stay glued to it day in and out to respond to every post. For me, abstinence is what I preach and is my fuel to the fight in the group I belong to and in my community, whomever I meet. Maybe I should be more forward and ask everyone - what do YOU do for the fight? To me the fight expands further than the forum. It shouldn't matter when anyone pops in from their garden to post. I congradulate you on having more time than I to be on here. Its nice to check in from time to time but I simply do not have the time anymore to sit here for hours when I can be out in the community making a difference.

reply from: 4given

No need to be rude, now is there? I likely don't do enough for "the fight". It isn't a fight really, more of a cause. Or a cause for action maybe. I do, as I am led to. We don't have an abortion clinic here. We have a preg. resource center. We have contributed much to their cause. ( clothing, food, blankets, diapers, money) My sons have been on their own mission- They picked up these I AM A PERSON cards, and decided they would educate a community. They have been everwhere I can think of. They have them displayed at school.. and elsewhere. The duties of a busy home are none-the-bother or business of yours. I owe you nothing. It is the womb child I serve. (thanks Faithman for that line) My question to you, is how can you stop in on a forum (btw, I haven't been "glued to it day in and out") give your pointers about what works or doesn't and your happy speech all about YOU, and do nothing to "fight" against the proabortion foes of the hour? have you no comment for their posts?

reply from: 4given

Okay so you edited your post. You were actually on here for hours? Yes, community time is awesome. It does not mean the time anyone else spends to strengthen the pro-life community is invalid. Not just the pro-life community, but the community as a whole. Oh and it doesn't matter. Just read up. You are here to support the cause, am I right? Come in and say hello and talk about your pregnancy and life. It is a welcomed line, from the nastiness that has been spilled here as of late. I love to hear about babies and ultrasounds and new life..surely more than parasytes, animals, etc.. Human life is important to me. My problem is with your timing I guess.. no maybe not. I think it has more to do w/ your little judgement about what is the best way to handle a situation maybe? I am thinking you are arrogant enough to believe that you are doing the ultimate work. And it bothers me also that you would be teaching abstinence, while pregnant with a bastard. I am not judging you for that, I know you have been through enough rounds.. It is not kosher. A little hypocritical. Am I being too bold? I am not trying to be rude. Truly. Maybe I should say illegitemate. It doesn't matter really. I appreciate all life, regardless of how it begins. Let me just help you realize what the problem may be. And do share your views, especially with some of the pro-aborts!

reply from: NewMom

You asked in a previous post in this topic, "Why won't you accept the truth about abortion? Is it personal? Is it political? What cause do you personally serve, to discredit the potential in human life or the value therein? I do not understand. Why is the destruction of our future important to you? God, please help this Nation understand the truth about abortion." Every prolifer who is truly prolife is already on board and ponders these same questions. I'm glad you have participated with your sons - I am glad you are doing something in the community. That's what I try to encourage people to do. For some in here, talking about it in here seems like its enough and I do not judge - only encourage people to get involved in their community. I must say I'm perplexed about why you are coming down on me and questioning me what I do when I have stated it so many times.
I pop into this topic believing that pictures of abortion are effective in spreading the prolife message, however many posts exist of the same fashion. Anyone can google "abortion" and put it to photobucket - I don't see it as effective though in proving a prolife stance when members are constantly posting pictures to prove a point we prolifers already all agree on. Abortion is murder.
Moreover, to defend your assumption "the womb child" I serve happens to be primarily the one in mine right now, and then after that every other one out there in jeapordy as far as I can reach. That shouldn't appear selfish to you. I use this forum as a resource and a way to peer into some tough subjects. So what if I use my personal experience to make a difference? I've had many discussions with others in here and out in my community who have no issue with my tactic. Some in here use their faith to preach why abortion is wrong; but what we all share is that our prolife identity is shaped by our life experiences. My reactions to topics have absolutely everything to do with my identity as a prolifer, do you disagree? I only hope my words on here reach someone worried about what to do - I reassure that things work out, no matter how hard as long as you can stand up and stand behind your beliefs. I don't doubt your life experiences have shaped your identity as a prolifer. I do not judge you, nor need to. Maybe I throw my personal experience on it because the topics we cover in here are much fresher since in the last few months I've had to deal with many of them. My post in this topic, was apparently somehow misinterpreted by you to be about myself primarily and not the actual topic.
Again I restate - I can look at a million pictures of abortions and it still produces the same reaction in me of disgust, and sorrow, because I refuse to do that to my unborn child, but instead of closing the box and going back to life as usual, my mind races to "What can I continue to do to stop abortion?"
I'll pop in gladly any time of the day, month or year and share that all again with you anytime with confidence and a smile.
Rude, no. Brutally honest, yes.

reply from: NewMom

Then why bother bringing it up again? You of all people should be reminded that our Lord teaches us that we can be forgiven. Abstinence is what I believed in before I got pregnant. Its not like I am changing my tune. If anything it should confirm to people what happens if you do not abstain!
And as for my so called little judgement about the best way to handle a situation? It has nothing to do with judgement... a person can honestly want to help and offer a solution. I am going to bed.

reply from: pookiy1980

I am still waiting on the proof that silent scream and the "pro-life" abortion pictures are fakes.....

reply from: Hereforareason

Yes, I hadn't heard exactly what that was either. I want to know how they are refuting this.
It sounds like wishful thinking to me.
Amber

reply from: jujujellybean

you haven't believed anything that I've said even if I have proof.!

reply from: whydeath

LOL! this is so silly! People need to learn how to have a debate lol!
The person initially who made the comment that the abortion pictures or videos are fake needs to prove themselves. I am not talking about opinions or what you think it is. There have been numerous posters who have made comments stating a miscarriage does not cause bruised babies, or decapitated babies. On top of that CP pointed out in another post that miscarried babies are not set around for the "pro-life media" to come take pictures!
So really it does not help you to keep mumbling that same "it's propaganda" without proof (unbiased) of it. Many of the PL posters here have been challenged to provide proof to comments they have made so why can't you?(PCr's)

reply from: MC3

On another thread, I made a point about these pro-aborts who are saying that our graphic images of abortion are actually pictures of stillborns.
The question is, why would we need to use phony pictures when dead babies can be found in abortion clinic dumpsters? More importantly, where would we get stillborn babies to photograph? Stillborn babies are legally required to be sent to either a funeral home to be buried or cremated. Also, if those dead babies were stillborn and not aborted, where did all the wounds and torn-off body parts come from? Does anyone seriously believe that hospitals provide us with baby corpses which we then beat to a pulp, dismember, and photograph?
Or perhaps they are suggesting that these images are of miscarriages. The problem is, when miscarriages occur the medical standard of care is that the material is sent out for a pathology report. It certainly seems unlikely that a physician would risk his or her medical career by giving it to the pro-life movement to photograph. Maybe they're suggesting that these are really photos of miscarriages that occurred at home. I guess that's possible. After all, it certainly seems reasonable to assume that when a woman loses her baby, the first thing she thinks about is alerting the pro-life movement so we can rush over with our lights and cameras.
Of course, the real question is why these pro-aborts become so hysterical over these pictures. If legal abortion is such a positive thing, not to mention a "fundamental constitutional right," these photos should be found in every abortion clinic ad and on posters hanging in the offices of every pro-choice politician in America.
It is the ultimate in hypocrisy for these people to object when we show the bodies of the babies they killed, and we're not the only ones who recognize this. In an article, Our Bodies, Our Souls, published in The New Republic magazine on October 16, 1995, the rabid pro-abort, Naomi Wolf, stated, "Those photographs are in fact photographs of actual D&Cs; those footprints are in fact the footprints of a 10-week-old fetus; the pro-life slogan, 'Abortion stops a beating heart,' is incontrovertibly true. While images of violent fetal death work magnificently for pro-lifers as political polemic, the pictures are not polemical in themselves: they are biological facts. ...How can we charge that it is vile and repulsive for pro-lifers to brandish vile and repulsive images if the images are real? To insist that the truth is in poor taste is the height of hypocrisy."
The fact is, the pro-aborts who show up on this forum are not fooling anyone. They throw a tantrum over these photographs for the same reason they panic over technology like 4-D and color ultrasound. Both expose realities which they desperately need to keep hidden. They know that ultrasound transforms our argument that unborn children are living human beings from a belief into an observable fact, and the graphic photos prove that abortion is the brutal murder of those children. For the pro-choice crowd, that is a devastating one-two punch. They realize that when the public sees these images, the only way for them to support legalized abortion is to either deny what they are seeing with their own eyes or harden their hearts to it.
The bottom line is, they throw out this "most so called abortion pictures are really just stillborns" rhetoric knowing full-well that they cannot possibly back it up if someone calls them on it.
The problem is, we are calling them on it. If you are one of those who claim that our abortion photos and videos are phony, it is time to put up or shut up. You made the charge and that means the burden of proof is on you. So where is it?
For the rest of you, go to AbortionNo.com to see the horror we're fighting against.

reply from: jujujellybean

well, the proof that obviously flew by some people because they are asking for me to explain myself again!

reply from: NewMom

I apologize.
Accepted, but don't poke at the fire or sparks will fly!

reply from: NewMom

Regarding the pictures... as a prolifer I don't need to be bombarded with the pictures to know that abortion is murder and it is wrong. I don't even bother to open the links because the thought of my child growing inside me laid out in pieces nearly brings me to tears, because I could never put my child, my family or myself through anything like that. A picture sends a clear enough message. I wouldn't know whether or not some of them are fake, however I do not doubt people post ones that perhaps might be of stillborns. Such is the technological world we live in where we can go google up anything and claim it to be something else.
My solution is this. We cannot ban abortion yet although we are trying... we cannot stop the murder of the innocent for there will always be murder without remorse or punishment. What we can do is encourage young people to love life and themselves and just simply abstain from sex until they are ready - encouraging our youth to do so solves the whole entire problem. For those who choose not to, you do what I did. Grow up, make a plan, and fight for what you believe in.

reply from: 4given

Don't push it, I stand behind what I said.

reply from: yoda

NewMom, I'll ask you the same question I asked the proabort who first made this totally unsupported claim....... how does being stillborn cause a baby to be ripped into tiny pieces?
And what would be the point, since we know that many types of abortion DO rip a baby into tiny pieces.... they even have a process to COUNT the pieces and make sure they got them all!
So why even entertain that unsupported allegation?

reply from: Banned Member

New Mom, I have to say that while I don't agree with much of what you say, you are the only pro-lifer on these boards who I can respect. You have shown me & from what I have seen every one else here respect, & I appreciate that. And like I said, I don't agree with your arguments, at least you present them in a logical way.
Just wanted to take a moment to say kudos to you. May you rub off on others.
The same goes to hereforareason, I disagree with everything you say, but I haven't seen you be anything but logical & respectful, so thank you.

reply from: jujujellybean

what about me? Just because I disagree radically doesn't make me bad. Give me topic and quote where I called names worse than anything you have dished out.

reply from: NewMom

NewMom, I'll ask you the same question I asked the proabort who first made this totally unsupported claim....... how does being stillborn cause a baby to be ripped into tiny pieces?
And what would be the point, since we know that many types of abortion DO rip a baby into tiny pieces.... they even have a process to COUNT the pieces and make sure they got them all!
So why even entertain that unsupported allegation?
I just finished reading back a bit (specifically, a topic called "You Prolifers Got Us") to realise that the claim of fake pictures was intended in a different manner than I took. I simply meant anyone can pick a picture off the net and post it - pictures of still borns are indefinitely quite different than abortion pictures, and of course, "still born" and "abortion" are two different meanings entirely. I was slightly confused of all the talk and had to read back a bit to discover how it all started. In my post I meant to state that still borns and abortions are obviously two different things and there shouldn't be confusion with the pictures. However, I completely forgot to write that part when I was going off on my rant!
Don't worry I'm not slipping to an on the fence position!
What's this infiltration of the proaborts anyway? I thought this was PROLIFE America???

reply from: NewMom

Life is confusing enough, and its your right to believe in what you want and pick whatever religion you want - its not my job to tell you you're wrong for not having faith. I only speak from experience and from watching younger girls around me fall victim to abortion, and it has ruined their life. As much as I completely don't agree with your logic behind your arguments, I hope at least some of my words stuck in your mind. I can't say I won't continue to argue with you how wrong abortion is on so many levels.... I appreciate the comment but at the same time wish I could change your mind, and hope to sway it a little.

reply from: yoda

Someone said it's a group from a website called "gurls" or something like that, a proabort forum.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

gurl.com is an advice website for teen girls. They do have a "hot button issue" board with a debate folder on abortion.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Yoda..
I cannot prove that the picture is real, and it is, but I can prove the pictures you guys throw around are fake.

reply from: yoda

By all means, don't hold back on your "proof"....

reply from: jujujellybean

yah I am curious...especially since there can't be a fake picture, just a doctored one. Interesting, you are claiming something impossible...

reply from: Teresa18

Wow. I can't wait to hear this proof.
I mean, certainly when you butcher a human being there is no body parts and blood. Plus, women call us all the time when they have a miscarriage or stillborn. Then we come and chop the baby into bits, smear blood around, take a photo, and post it all over the web.

reply from: MC3

Earlier, I commented on these charges that the graphic images of abortion used by the pro-life movement are actually pictures of stillborns. Not surprisingly, no one from the pro-choice gang has yet responded despite a claim by KayLuvzChoice to have "proof" of this. While we are waiting for her - or one of her co-degenerates - to come forward with it, I will re-post the comments I made earlier.
The question is, why would we need to use phony pictures when dead babies can be found in abortion clinic dumpsters? More importantly, where would we get stillborn babies to photograph? Stillborn babies are legally required to be sent to either a funeral home to be buried or cremated. Also, if those dead babies were stillborn and not aborted, where did all the wounds and torn-off body parts come from? Does anyone seriously believe that hospitals provide us with baby corpses which we then beat to a pulp, dismember, and photograph?
Or perhaps they are suggesting that these images are of miscarriages. The problem is, when miscarriages occur the medical standard of care is that the material is sent out for a pathology report. It certainly seems unlikely that a physician would risk his or her medical career by giving it to the pro-life movement to photograph. Maybe they're suggesting that these are really photos of miscarriages that occurred at home. I guess that's possible. After all, it certainly seems reasonable to assume that when a woman loses her baby, the first thing she thinks about is alerting the pro-life movement so we can rush over with our lights and cameras.
Of course, the real question is why these pro-aborts become so hysterical over these pictures. If legal abortion is such a positive thing, not to mention a "fundamental constitutional right," these photos should be found in every abortion clinic ad and on posters hanging in the offices of every pro-choice politician in America.
It is the ultimate in hypocrisy for these people to object when we show the bodies of the babies they killed, and we're not the only ones who recognize this. In an article, Our Bodies, Our Souls, published in The New Republic magazine on October 16, 1995, the rabid pro-abort, Naomi Wolf, stated, "Those photographs are in fact photographs of actual D&Cs; those footprints are in fact the footprints of a 10-week-old fetus; the pro-life slogan, 'Abortion stops a beating heart,' is incontrovertibly true. While images of violent fetal death work magnificently for pro-lifers as political polemic, the pictures are not polemical in themselves: they are biological facts. ...How can we charge that it is vile and repulsive for pro-lifers to brandish vile and repulsive images if the images are real? To insist that the truth is in poor taste is the height of hypocrisy."
Let's cut to the chase. The pro-aborts who show up on this forum are not fooling anyone. They throw a tantrum over these photographs for the same reason they panic over technology like 4-D and color ultrasound. Both expose realities which they desperately need to keep hidden. They know that ultrasound transforms our argument that unborn children are living human beings from a belief into an observable fact, and the graphic photos prove that abortion is the brutal murder of those children. For the pro-choice crowd, that is a devastating one-two punch. They realize that when the public sees these images, the only way for them to support legalized abortion is to either deny what they are seeing with their own eyes or harden their hearts to it.
The bottom line is, they throw out this "most so called abortion pictures are really just stillborns" rhetoric knowing full-well that they cannot possibly back it up if someone calls them on it. The problem they have is that we are calling them on it.
So here's the deal. If you are one of those who claim that our abortion photos and videos are phony, it is time to put up or shut up. You made the charge and that means the burden of proof is on you. Besides, KayLuvzChoice assures us that she actually has this proof. So what is the hold up? Where is the proof?
For the rest of you, go to AbortionNo.com to see the horror we're fighting against.

reply from: yoda

Which is why they scrape the bottom of the barrel trying to find reasons to object to them, and even enlist the help of so-called "prolifers" to denounce the use of these photographs.
They dredge up phony concerns that the photos will "traumatize young kids", or "shock post-abortive women".... as if neither of these two categories of people had the emotional stability to face the truth. There is zero proof that either objection holds any water, and we already know that the photos do save baby's lives.
They desperately scream and squirm to stop people from seeing them. That alone should tell you that everyone ought to see them.

reply from: GratiaPlena

My question is, even if our pictures were fake, why do they care so much about it?

reply from: kayluvzchoice

For one thing, those pictures look nothing like a first trimester fetus.
Why would a woman or an abortion doctor take pictures and videos of something like that? It helps the pro-life side, which could put them out of a job.
And this explains more on how they are fake.
http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/truth_about_photos.html

I know you guys will not believe it, so whatever.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

I am sorry you guys think this is a priority of mine. I actually have a life so I may not respond as quickly as you want me to.
Gratia
We care because you guys are passing it off as arguments. You are trying to guilt women into keeping a pregnancy with lies. You are trying to put guilt on the women who have had abortions. You are pushing people to change opinions and views based on lies and emotion.

reply from: MC3

KayLuvzChoice:
You said you have proof that these images are fake. I assume that you know what the word "proof" means since you have been so quick to toss it about. If that is not so, please consult a dictionary for clarification. What you will discover is that, opinions, feelings, assumptions, presumptions, speculations, reflections, suppositions, conjectures, deductions, surmises, assessments, beliefs, sentiments, theories, guesses, observations, etc. do not qualify as "proof."

Therefore, your personal observation that "...those pictures look nothing like a first trimester fetus" is not proof. Likewise, the personal observations of another radical pro-abort on the website you sent us to is not proof either. Further, your statement that "...you guys will not believe it..." is totally irrelevant. What we or you believe or don't believe is not the issue. The issue at hand is whether the pictures are phony or not and you said that you have "proof" that they are.
So once more. Since you made the charge that our abortion photos and videos are phony, that means the burden of proof is on you. You claim to have such proof. Like I said before, it is time for you to put up or shut up. Do you have this proof or were you lying and simply got called on it? (I know where the smart money is on that bet.)
And again, for those who want to see for themselves exactly what the pro-life movement is fighting against, go to AbortionNo.com.

reply from: AshMarie88

One, most of those pictures DO look like a first trimester baby.
Second, that site is PRO-CHOICE. A PRO-CHOICE site doesn't "prove" anything!

reply from: AshMarie88

The poor choicers know the photos are real, they're just terrified to admit it because they're afraid to change their views, they're afraid people will look down upon them for not supporting what they've been taught as "choice".
Therefore they have to say the photos are fake, to protect this thing called "choice". I mean, how else are businesses such as Planned Parenthood going to make money?

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Actually, even if those photos were real, I would sill be pro-choice.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Okay. I have tried my best to be respectful to you guys. But some are you just cannot accept fact. I am done with arguing with you on abortion, you believe what you want to believe instead of fact and your whole "cause" is based off of religion, lies, and punishment.
And MC3,
Did you even read and comprehend the linked site?
Stop trying to sound intelligent.
Answer this question
"Why would a woman or an abortion doctor take pictures and videos of something like that? It helps the pro-life side, which could put them out of a job."

reply from: yoda

What happened to your "proof"? We're all waiting with bated breath!!
You have no idea, do you? Does the term "instant money" ring a bell?

reply from: AshMarie88

Just like how nazis are still nazis even after seeing photos of murdered black people and Jews?
Yep, yes sir, that's correct.
It's because you don't value innocent human life, why you'd still be pro-murder.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

I gave you guys a website. And no it isn't biased. Research some of the explanations, and you will see that.
It takes a long time to become a doctor. You think someone will value instant money over something they worked for for years?
That would also lose them money.
And they can get in big trouble if they put anything out without the patient's consent.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

I value ALL sentinent life. I value all things that can be beneficial. A fetus is not beneficial unless it is wanted. Why do you keep comparing embryos and fetuses to sentinent beings?

reply from: AshMarie88

Pro-choice websites are biased.

reply from: AshMarie88

You value sentient life; so you don't value people in deep sleeps and comas? You don't value sleeping newborns?
Explain what your definition of "beneficial" means. I'm not understanding.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

For example, trees are not sentinent and they are beneficial. I value them because they help everything breath.
A person in a coma or in a deep sleep is not forcing nutrients.

reply from: yoda

Useful to whom?
No human has an obligation to be "useful" to anyone else.
Someone not thinking of you as "useful" in no way negates your moral right to life.

reply from: yoda

That's your "proof"? A proabort website?
Yeah, sure........ bring your "proof" here, and let's examine it point by lovely point...

reply from: GratiaPlena

An unborn child can be beneficial, even if he/she is unwanted. What about all the adoptive couples who could have parented this child?

reply from: jujujellybean

yah, proof is proof but I don't think you have any. You have avoided it very well.

reply from: Hereforareason

You are totally denying the worth of a person, and life beginning from conception.
So, of course your views are not a surprise.
Amber

reply from: MC3

LayLuvzChoice:
First you ask, "Did you even read and comprehend the linked site?" The answer is yes. It is a garden-variety pro-abortion website run by a garden-variety pro-abort. For you to suggest that it is non-bias is asinine.
Next you command me to, "Stop trying to sound intelligent." All I know to say is that I am not trying to "sound" anything. I have responded to you using the simple English words and basic sentence structure I use in my everyday life. I cannot help how my language causes you to perceive me and I have certainly never tried to pretend that I am anything other than a person of average intelligence. Perhaps you are spending too much time hanging out with stupid people and I only "sound intelligent" by comparison. You might consider getting some pro-life friends.
Of course, the real question is why you would advise someone to stop trying to "sound intelligent." Is it your opinion that people should strive to "sound ignorant?" If so, let me be the first to say that you have performed magnificently during your time on this forum.

As for your question, "Why would a woman or an abortion doctor take pictures and videos of something like that? It helps the pro-life side, which could put them out of a job." I personally know some of the people involved in acquiring these images and I can tell you that many, if not the vast majority, come from countries other than the United States. The primary source is countries in Eastern Europe. For that reason, the medical staff are generally not concerned with the political ramifications.
Finally, you told the pro-lifers here that you are, "done with arguing with you on abortion." I assume that means you will be leaving us now since this forum only deals with the abortion issue. If that is not the case, in other words if that was yet another one of your lies, then answer my question. Where is your "proof" that these graphic images are fake. You have been telling us for days that you have it, why won't you come forward with it?
For everyone else, go to AbortionNo.com for the harsh reality of abortion.

reply from: sheri

90% of abortions take place within the 8th and 10th week. Its just as wrong to kill the child then as it is at the moment of conception. its the same baby.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Sheri no they don't and you guys are idiots. I am not arguing with you anymore. Me and all the other pro-choicers on here have been over the same stuff over and over.

reply from: lukesmom

Do you live in Lala Land? Corrupt people come from all walks of life and all professions. What pt are you talking about? The "clump of cells" that is dead or the mother who concented to murdering her child? The so called mother wouldn't recognise her murdered child and the murdered victom has no voice. Anyone can publish a picture that has no identifying marks or names attached.
Also, it is an injustice to medical physicians to call abortionists "doctors".

reply from: lukesmom

How curious. 90% of conceptions die before birth for one natural reason or another - be it fatal genetic flaws or simple failure to implant.
Vexing-what does that have to do with the abortion topic????

reply from: lukesmom

*Gasp*
You mean...
There are corrupt pro-lifers out there too?
Say it ain't so!
Yup, more than likely but they don't kill their unborn children. Any other twisting away from the abortion topic from you? Again.

reply from: jujujellybean

Hey...what this funny piece of paper here? What's that? You call it a 'constitution' huh?
And it does what? Allow people freedom of speach?
Cool! That sounds pretty neat-o!
We have a breaker breaker nine immature alert. Immature alert.
Sheesh. How old are you? That sounds like something my seven year old sister would say to be annoying, like you! You could win the award for not acting how ever old you are!

reply from: lukesmom

Hey...what this funny piece of paper here? What's that? You call it a 'constitution' huh?
And it does what? Allow people freedom of speach?
Cool! That sounds pretty neat-o!
And what has this got to do with the topic here other than you avoiding...again?

reply from: lukesmom

I really don't care too much about the topic, but I felt like replying to your comment.
Groovy huh?
Groovy, but now it is time for little girls like you to go to bed. Don't let the bedbugs bite. I'll check in on you after I finish tucking in my little people.

reply from: sheri

Why question these statistics? Why does it matter to you how old the child is when it is terminated?

reply from: Kaota

A friend of mine (John) has entered his abortion documentary into a film contest, I will post up the link to his voting page where his video can be seen and voted on. There are many other types of films in the contest as well. Each day each person is allowed to have 15 votes distributed between their favourite films or if you have only one favourite, you can put them all on that one.. There is one part where there is a bit of foul language that has not been bleeped out though.
Here is the link... If you truly think this film should be one of the finalists, here is just one more way for our voices to be heard.
http://shortfilm.projectbreakout.com/media_page/entry_id/45

reply from: jujujellybean

I really don't care too much about the topic, but I felt like replying to your comment.
Groovy huh?
yah. Because what would you have said? We have lots of people on here like you...they either change topic or counter your question with a question instead of proving their point by just answering. Why??? Because they don't have an answer. Interesting how you are all so alike...

reply from: yoda

That's "speech", btw.
And you aren't posting here because of the first amendment, you're posting here because they have a policy of allowing proaborts to express themselves here, within reason.

reply from: sheri

Kaluzcoice contradicted me on how old the baby is when most abortions take place, Why does it matter to the proaborts what stage of development the child is at the time of the abortion.

reply from: 4given

I can only ascertain that it helps w/ the guilt of severing your unborns limbs or even more would be the lies and need to justify the parasite, non-sentient, tissue, cells.. arguement..
Not that I wanted to answer a question I have also asked. I just don't understand how anyone could reasonably defend their rights to kill another human being!

reply from: jujujellybean

Oh how petty.
Go and tell your little friend how to spell 'metaphors'.
Wrong; I'm not American, so the first amendment is meaningless to me.
I was making what we ordinary people call 'a funny'. Which involved a dash of sarcasm.
If it means nothing, then don't go neat o because of it since you don't seem to think it valid!

reply from: yoda

Good spelling and grammar are not "petty", they are fundamental. And if I was addressing "my little friend" I would tell them how to spell that, but in a nice way...... not in a nasty tone as you do.
"Funny"? You think the subject of free speech is "funny"?
What planet DO you come from?

reply from: whydeath

Ever been to the zoo and see the "do not feed the animals" sign?
I wish I had one to post here.
These pro-aborts get off on this petty junk, this is a way they try to get us to stray from the topic at hand

reply from: jujujellybean

YES, and it gets very annoying. It's like they don't have a life other than to try and ruin everyone else's: ours, the unborn babies, the mothers who will be emotionally in horror the rest of their lives...its a never ending pattern. I've noticed they start a lot of those.

reply from: yoda

I'm not surprised, really.
All proaborts make fun of the right of free speech, and think no prolifer should have it.
Some of them even come right out and tell you that.
How about you?
Btw: It's a shame your heart doesn't hurt instead of your head.

reply from: yoda

That's peanuts compared to how much prolife stuff is "suppressed".
And violently sometimes, too... by proaborts.
Besides, everything's a joke to you, isn't it?

reply from: Teresa18

It should be obvious by now that Vexing isn't here to have a serious conversation about abortion. She's a pro-abort who is here to distract us from discussing abortion by inserting snarky comments and jokes after our posts. I know it's tough not to respond, but I urge you not to. Use the ignore function if necessary. There is something wrong when someone can take the issue of babies being mutilated in the wombs of their mothers so lightly. It is far from a light issue. It is serious, and there are 4,000 babies killed every single day.

reply from: yoda

I second that motion. Ignore it is.

reply from: jujujellybean

So much for 'amusement' LOL!
Considering you claimed that I was merely a source of entertainment, I find it ironic that you're now falling in with the "Vexing isn't here to have a serious conversation" shtick.
As usual, the levels of hypocrisy are skyrocketing.
has anyone noticed how pro aborts project? they call us hypocrites because that's exactly what they are!

reply from: jujujellybean

As I pointed out in the other thread, your hypocrisy has been demonstrated.
I was willing to stop arguing and help someone.
You just want to fight.
you told her how to do a quote! I was going to, nut you had said everything that needed to be said. Get Over It. You are flattering yourself by thinking you are all good. I would have told her If I got there first. You beat everyone else to it. Be proud, Vexing, for logging on first!

reply from: sk1bianca

in Spain, a doctor got into an abortion clinic and filmed an abortion with a hidden camera. the victim: a 20 week old fetus.
it's NOT a miscarriage, the nurses say it's an abortion. it also shows how they fail to respect the restrictions imposed by Spanish laws.
the story here: http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/dec/07121401.html
the clip, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0WXNl3HCA4

seeing that woman pumped with anesthetics, in that embarrassing position, giving birth to a dead child... i just can't figure out how some people actually think abortion is "empowering" women...

reply from: yoda

So much for "giving people a choice to act morally"....
Thanks.

reply from: sk1bianca

i also found this site. http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/A-Ce/Abortion-Induced.html
it says that in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, medical abortion can be used and "The outcome resembles a natural miscarriage."
"An abortion may be performed whenever there is some compelling reason to end a pregnancy. An abortion is termed "induced" to differentiate it from a spontaneous abortion in which the products of conception are lost naturally (also called a miscarriage)."
not much difference concerning the result: a dead child (embryo, fetus).
"Disadvantages of a medical abortion are:...
The woman may see the contents of her womb as it is expelled."
why is it so horrible, if it's her right to have an abortion, if that's her "choice"?

reply from: yoda

Very interesting, since many proaborts scream about how we prolifers are using photos of "miscarriages" to represent aborted babies......
(But of course, they can't furnish any "real" ones.......???)

reply from: 4given

Yes, I am also appalled that the life of that poor woman or man to be was so violently disturbed. It is UTTERLY DISGUSTING, just as it is SAD!

reply from: sk1bianca

it's not "fetus rights". it's a human right to life. i suppose we don't have to argue whether the fetus is a live human being or not. that has been demonstrated by science. (even pro-choicers say it's human, but not a person, as far as i know).
as for the ugliness of abortion, it doesn't get any better if you look away.
by the way, the patients faces were blurred or something...

reply from: Hereforareason

"Ah, so once again the rights of the fetus trump every other right?
Is that what you're driving at? "
No, that woman should never have been put in that position. Regardless of the guy taping it, hopefully it will keep other woman from the same situation.
(Not to mention the woman killed by "safe" legal abortions)
Amber

reply from: sk1bianca

yes, a human life is more precious that another humans personal comfort. it's not like she was saving her body or her life or something (the clip shows that such motives were being made up by doctors payed to sign the authorizations for abortion)... a mother's not attacked by her own unborn child. that's ridiculous.
and if pro-lifers started going into clinics to stop abortions, you would call that "anti-choice violence", right?

reply from: sk1bianca

which is more violent? killing a human being or trying to stop someone from killing a human being?
the aborted child was already dead before he got there. he was poisoned with saline solution.
but showing how horrible an abortion is wasn't the only point of the clip (even the other doctor thinks it's horrible since she says she never looks at the dead fetus). it also shows how abortion clinics, the staff and the clients are braking the law.

reply from: galen

Dear Vex... if you are interested in what a prolifer will do before and after a child is born i invite you to look up All of my posts considering the time spent in my shelter.....
Mary

reply from: yoda

Good question, but the proaborts won't touch that one with a ten foot pole.

reply from: Hereforareason

"I see you also endorse a 'baby being murdered' if it will save other babies.
What flaming hypocrites you are."
No, I do not endorse it. Every baby that is killed is wrong. Now we can only hope that from the death of many (many woman and many children) others will avoid the same fate.
"As for her being 'put in that position' - I think you'll find she put HERSELF in that position by her own CHOICE."
If she wasn't coerced, she chose to have sex, and then chose to kill her baby. So she chose. Big deal. It is a bad choice when you end up with a dead baby.
Amber

reply from: jujujellybean

Yes, I would prefer if he bust in and tried to stop them; that would show some backbone in his belief.
Instead he resorted to be an underhanded, dishonest sneak - and allowed a 'baby to be murdered'.
It's okay for one baby to be murdered if it will stop other babies from being murdered, is it?
Such a bunch of hypocrites.
You're not pro-life.
You're pro-control.
pro control? I don't think so! Why should I want to be in control of women everywhere? I am a woman myself, and I have no need nor want to control women. Explain, please, why you think we are pro control...

reply from: jujujellybean

no, I don't want her to have the choice to kill her baby!
I don't have a right, but I never said I did. I just don't think its right that because the mother was irresponsible with herself, she should be able to kill her baby!

reply from: galen

I noticed Vexing never did reply to me...
Mary

reply from: jujujellybean

Yes, it so irresponsible to fall in love, get married, have sex in marriage, fall pregnant, have the husband freak out and leave her - without any income or support of her own and incapable of getting a job because no-one will employ her while 4 months pregnant.
So very irresponsible of her.
She should have known better!
ALL HER FAULT!
Geez, of course that wasn't her fault! I feel sorry for all women who get into that kind of thing. Poor people, it's awful and you want to strangle those guys. But still, she could have the child for adoption. It's better than deciding because something happened unexpected in her life the baby's should be ended.
Let me ask you this:
IS THERE ANY TIME THAT YOU THINK IT IS OK FOR ANOTHER PERSON TO KILL SOMEONE ELSE BESIDES ABORTION?

reply from: galen

I didn't notice a question.
Also, plenty of MY questions never get answered, so don't think you're special.
-------------------------------
Special... no I just invited you to do some research before intimating that prolifers do not look to the lives we want to save....
i usually have a very good excuse for being late... I work at a women's shelter and just this past week happen to have been attending to three ladies who were in labour. Now ... why not do a bit of research and we'll see if you have anything more to say on that subject other than an off the head response just to make a point that will fly into the ether at the next topic.
Mary


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