Home - List All Discussions

Here's something I want to Know...

by: jujujellybean

For all you pro-choicers out there, I have a question: I want to know, if you think that a fetus isn't a human, the magical day that it actually makes the transition INTO a human. I am really curious as to what you guys think, not because I want to switch sides, but because I can never seem to get a direct answer. Thanks!

reply from: boinky78

Juju don't wash anymore when you shower you are washing off dead skin cells that have human dna so that's murder
also if you get a tumor don't remove it because it has human dna
LOTS OF THINGS HAVE HUMAN DNA!
-_-

reply from: jujujellybean

so? not all things have a brain developing and a heart beating!

reply from: boinky78

juju cows do chickens do
you against them being killed?

reply from: GratiaPlena

But there's a difference between killing an animal for food and killing a human being for selfish purposes.

reply from: boinky78

[But there's a difference between killing an animal for food]
We don't have to eat meat humans can live off vegan food for the rest of their lives and you know what? theyd be more healthy because too much meat can be very bad for you
and don't go blabing off on how humans need proteins yada yada ya because there are vegan foods that give you all the proteins etc that you need to function so no we don't NEED to eat meat
[killing a human being for selfish purposes.]
Well you don't have to eat meat..
so does that make you selfish?taking an animals life just so you can have your hamburgers etc when you want?
eating meat is selfish if you want to use that logic because you don't have to eat meat
meat is more of a want then a need

reply from: kayluvzchoice

What selfish purposes are there for getting an abortion?

reply from: ChristianLott

original question was:
obviously at the moment of conception the sperm and the egg cease to be separate cells, join, and by creating a new and unique dna create a new living, growing human individual.
that's the definition of conception. that's what happens.
original response was:
obviously the event of conception, the creation of a living, growing human is not comparable to the parts of that person. An arm is an individual arm, not an individual person.

reply from: ChristianLott

"you won't marry me."
true story.

reply from: boinky78

[An arm is an individual arm, not an individual person. ]
A fetus is not indiviual intill it leaves the womb
before that it could be compared to a parasite

reply from: ChristianLott

you can compare your little brother to a parasite.
a fetus is an individual on temporary life support. conception and pregnancy are necessary to keep the human race from extinction.
to deny the very conception of human life can be properly compared to parasitic behavior because it seeks to destroy the value of human life and it's necessary function of reproduction, it's very existence - to infest their belief system with a fogged vision of conception and human life to nullify the distinction. a parasite to society, that fact obscuring system of pro abortion rhetoric.

reply from: boinky78

[you can compare your little brother to a parasite.]
No because my little brother is not inside me If get annoyed by him I can simply move out or walk away
A fetus is compared to a paraste because both are inside their host living off of them
[conception and pregnancy are necessary to keep the human race from extinction. ]
Just because some people get abortions doesnt mean everyone will
the world is already over populated trust me
people arent going to stop having babies anytime soon so don't worry
[conception of human life can be properly compared to parasitic behavior because it seeks to destroy the value of human life and it's necessary function of reproduction, it's very existence - to infest their belief system with a fogged vision of conception and human life to nullify the distinction. a parasite to society, that fact obscuring system of pro abortion rhetoric. ]
Please don't try to twist my words to fit into your propganda guilttrip bull*****
I never said I wanted people to stop having children

reply from: ChristianLott

yet they are parasites, eh?

reply from: donnajohnston

A fetus becomes a baby when it is born as a completly developed human. a full term baby

reply from: jujujellybean

Boinky, that is just so false! Then how do you describe premature babies? And I how can you compare a human to an ANIMAL? Seriously, that is awful. We were given animals to eat because we are the number one beings. Name another animal that can do math, science, write a report, or play the violin. And another thing: if there is a human and a dog in a building, should we get the dog first?

reply from: jujujellybean

that is just dumb! Can they think and create light? Why are they on this earth unless for our pleasure or food?

reply from: jujujellybean

a mother was not careful with her sexuality and so when she gets pregnant, she feels, "oh, I can't take the child. It would be to much hassle and I can't support it." There are plenty of people that cannot have kids that would love that PERSON!

reply from: jujujellybean

I just want to point out that no one here has yet answered my question. Someone answer the original question.

reply from: donnajohnston

Your original question was anwsered.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Why didn't anyone answer my Q?
What reasons are getting abortions selfish?

reply from: donnajohnston

pregnancy and labour are very emotional and hard to do. maybe she isn't ready to handle it. should she be forced to go through it?

reply from: kayluvzchoice

Wow Jujujellybean. just wow. I hope you don't have any pets. Ever.
Why do you think intelligence determines importance? Can you prove animals are here for US? Pleasure? What about snakes, fleas, ticks? Yeah lime disease is really nice, almost orgasmic. And getting ripped apart by a wild tiger, really nice.
I have another Question for you:
How many other animals betray, kill out of selfishness, driven a species to extinction, oppress, discriminate, abuse, torture, caused genocides, etc. Humans are not that nice of a species. But I am sure you'll reply trying to justify that.
And I'd save both from the building. They can both feel the same pain.

reply from: boinky78

[And I how can you compare a human to an ANIMAL? ]
Animals feel emotion and pain both things fetuses don't feel
why is it human life should be valued more then a cat or a cows life?
I mean I'm sure they don't want to be ate
I'm sure they don't enjoy being killed for your pleasure
[Name another animal that can do math, science, write a report, or play the violin.]
So if there was a lifeform that came to this earth 10x smarter and advanced then humans
and they decided to take over the earth and use us as food pets etc
youd be 100% ok with that?
[if there is a human and a dog in a building, should we get the dog first? ]
If the dog was mines and I cared about that dog I would get the dog first
because human life is not the only life that should be valued

reply from: jujujellybean

I can't believe it. you say intelligence doesn't determine importance, yet you say that because a fetus has little intelligence and feeling it is not a person. You guys are just wacked.

reply from: boinky78

[you say intelligence doesn't determine importance]
So if someone was smarter then you youd be ok with them killing you?
wtf kind of logic is that? LMAO

reply from: kayluvzchoice

:::you say that because a fetus has little intelligence and feeling it is not a person. ::
When have we said that?

reply from: donnajohnston

you say intelligence doesn't determine importance, yet you say that because a fetus has little intelligence and feeling it is not a person.
its has NO intelligence and NO feeling at all. being as it doesn't develop a nervous system until 20 weeks, how can it feel any pain?

reply from: jujujellybean

ITS BRAIN AND NERVOUS SYSTEM STARTS DEVELOPING AT 18-20 DAYS, AT LEAST THE FOUNDATIONS ARE LAID. a HUMAN IS A HUMAN, NO MATTER WHAT THE STAGE!!!!

reply from: jujujellybean

It's intelligence is developing until you kill it!

reply from: donnajohnston

It's intelligence is developing until you kill it!
How can its intelligence be developing? in order for that to happen, it has to be born and you have to nurture its mind! its only celluarly living until then, it would be like killing a tree!

reply from: AshMarie88

Sigh....
"Your hair doesn't have a heartbeat, fingers, toes, own blood supply, insides, systems, arms, legs, or a female/male part.
That's idiotic to compare your hair to an unborn person.
ALSO!!!!!!! YOU HAIR contains YOUR DNA. The unborn's DNA is NOT THE SAME as the parent's! "

reply from: AshMarie88

If it's not an individual, it never will be.
Individual means separate, one.

reply from: AshMarie88

Poorchoicers, you DIDN'T answer her question.
Answer mine.
1. At what magical point does a baby become a baby? You say birth, but what point AT birth? When the entire body is out of the woman? When the cord is cut? What if just the head is sticking out, is it a baby then? What if a leg or arm is still left in, is it a baby because you can see most of him/her, or no because it's not completely out of the womb?
2. HOW can something MAGICALLY transform into SOMETHING ELSE at a certain point? Biology doesn't teach anything like that!
So when do these little parasites turn into people? And don't say "birth", because we got that already. Tell us what you mean by birth (full body out, when you can see it, etc.)?

reply from: AshMarie88

You still haven't answered my question as to what the hell you mean when you say cellularly living.
Personality develops in the womb, you know.

reply from: AshMarie88

I'm too tired and sore to argue with idiots tonight tho. So goodnight.

reply from: kayluvzchoice

ASH....
Even because of rape or because the mother is in danger? What about an ectopic pregnancy?

reply from: 4given

I will not answer for another. My view in a rape scenario is this: No being should suffer for the sins of its father/mother. Why should an innocent life be deprived of the promise and hope intended because of the sin or violence of its parent?
Ectopic pregnancy? My understanding is that an ectopic pregnancy is not a viable pregnancy. Neither will the life developing, or the mother be able to continue on w/out harm. Here is the information I pulled. A mother's health has always been "protected".
None of these areas has as much space or nurturing tissue as a uterus for a pregnancy to develop. As the fetus grows, it will eventually burst the organ that contains it. This can cause severe bleeding and endanger the mother's life. A classical ectopic pregnancy never develops into a live birth. Ectopic means "out of place." In an ectopic pregnancy, a fertilized egg has implanted outside the uterus. The egg settles in the fallopian tubes more than 95% of the time. This is why ectopic pregnancies are commonly called "tubal pregnancies." The egg can also implant in the ovary, abdomen, or the cervix, so you may see these referred to as cervical or abdominal pregnancies.None of these areas has as much space or nurturing tissue as a uterus for a pregnancy to develop. As the fetus grows, it will eventually burst the organ that contains it. This can cause severe bleeding and endanger the mother's life. A classical ectopic pregnancy never develops into a live birth.

reply from: GratiaPlena

An unborn child's brain actually can be nurtured quite well. Reading stories, playing music, and talking to them enhances their mental capacity. Studies have shown that, if repeated unborn children can actually memorize stories. They also have different musical preferences, and know when their mother is speaking. Unborn children dream about different things, too... their mother's voice, moving around, etc.
It's actually pretty amazing how much and unborn child can do!

reply from: boinky78

"Your hair doesn't have a heartbeat, fingers, toes, own blood supply, insides, systems, arms, legs, or a female/male part.
That's idiotic to compare your hair to an unborn person.
ALSO!!!!!!! YOU HAIR contains YOUR DNA. The unborn's DNA is NOT THE SAME as the parent's! "
Well I would think that's just about as stupid as using the
"it has human dna argument" xD

reply from: yoda

(Electively) Killing any innocent human being for your own benefit is the ultimate selfishness.

reply from: yoda

A competent physican can determine "readiness" for gestation. Emotional problems are not sufficient justification for killing innocent human beings.

reply from: yoda

This seems to happen mostly on weekends, when the moderator is off.... we get a flood of babykillers dropping in just to have a "good time" and be silly....

reply from: boinky78

[we get a flood of babykillers]
So just because someone supports abortion they're "baby killers"
so I guess if someone supports people eating meat they're bucthers?

reply from: Hereforareason

"Juju don't wash anymore when you shower you are washing off dead skin cells that have human dna so that's murder
also if you get a tumor don't remove it because it has human dna
LOTS OF THINGS HAVE HUMAN DNA! "
Human DNA yes, but not a heart, brain and soul. (Animals don't have soul either, they are given for our use and care)
So please answer the question. When is it not okay to kill a baby?
Amber

reply from: jujujellybean

thank you I couldn't have worded it better!!!!

reply from: Hereforareason

"So just because someone supports abortion they're "baby killers"
so I guess if someone supports people eating meat they're bucthers?"
Well I am not skilled in the processing of meat, but if I was I wouldn't have a problem wearing the name that describes the action.
Amber

reply from: boinky78

[(Animals don't have soul either, they are given for our use and care) ]
Your religion is not a fact

reply from: jujujellybean

once again, boinky, do you see animals reading and discovering electricity? And we have decoded thousands of year old writing how come if animals have there own lingo we haven't figured it out yet?

reply from: boinky78

[once again, boinky, do you see animals reading and discovering electricity? ]
If there was a lifeform that was 100x smarter then you would you be perfectly fine with them killing you and using you as property?
[And we have decoded thousands of year old writing how come if animals have there own lingo we haven't figured it out yet? ]
So just because you don't understand them you think they're stupid and don't value their lives?People have spended decades trying to prove the bible is valid
have they?No
so why do you believe in the bible?

reply from: GratiaPlena

People have spent decades trying to disprove the Bible. So far, nothing. So why don't you believe?

reply from: boinky78

[People have spent decades trying to disprove the Bible]
Intill there is proof without a reasonable doubt that the bible is true I'll galdly believe in it
but there is proof that animals feel and talk to each other
so I believe it
Just because I can't understand them doesnt mean they're not talking

reply from: GratiaPlena

I never said animals don't feel and talk.
But babies also feel, yet you have no problem ripping them up into tiny little shreds.
Stop trying to distract us from the abortion debate, this is prolifeamerica not promeatamerica.

reply from: boinky78

[But babies also feel, yet you have no problem ripping them up into tiny little shreds.]
Yes babies feel but embryos don't
[Stop trying to distract us from the abortion debate ]
I like to use this argument because it contridicts most prolife people
so I use it

reply from: kayluvzchoice

So have any parts of the bible ever been proven?

reply from: GratiaPlena

So have any parts of the bible ever been proven?
Yes- Historians found a letter written by a Roman citizen to the governor of some section of Rome. The letter described Christ, the way He looked and what He preached. It also described His mother, Mary.
First of all, an embryo is a baby. Second of all, do you have any proof to back this statement up?
Don't come here to argue for animals' rights. Let's talk about abortion for a change, and why you think abortion is okay. Don't give me any analogies. Just tell me why you think it's morally acceptable to kill an innocent person.

reply from: boinky78

[Just tell me why you think it's morally acceptable to kill an innocent person. ]
A fetus is not a person
[First of all, an embryo is a baby. Second of all, do you have any proof to back this statement up? ]
here
http://www.dhushara.com/book/orsin/fetus/fetus.htm

reply from: Carifairy

During a abortion, MOST women recieve IV sedation so the procedure is painless.
General anesthesia would also react on the embryo/fetus, and cause it to not feel pain..
SECONDLY-
From JAMA
Fetal Pain
A Systematic Multidisciplinary Review of the Evidence
Susan J. Lee, JD; Henry J. Peter Ralston, MD; Eleanor A. Drey, MD, EdM; John Colin Partridge, MD, MPH; Mark A. Rosen, MD
JAMA. 2005;294:947-954.
Context Proposed federal legislation would require physicians to inform women seeking abortions at 20 or more weeks after fertilization that the fetus feels pain and to offer anesthesia administered directly to the fetus. This article examines whether a fetus feels pain and if so, whether safe and effective techniques exist for providing direct fetal anesthesia or analgesia in the context of therapeutic procedures or abortion.
Evidence Acquisition Systematic search of PubMed for English-language articles focusing on human studies related to fetal pain, anesthesia, and analgesia. Included articles studied fetuses of less than 30 weeks' gestational age or specifically addressed fetal pain perception or nociception. Articles were reviewed for additional references. The search was performed without date limitations and was current as of June 6, 2005.
Evidence Synthesis Pain perception requires conscious recognition or awareness of a noxious stimulus. Neither withdrawal reflexes nor hormonal stress responses to invasive procedures prove the existence of fetal pain, because they can be elicited by nonpainful stimuli and occur without conscious cortical processing. Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks' gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks. For fetal surgery, women may receive general anesthesia and/or analgesics intended for placental transfer, and parenteral opioids may be administered to the fetus under direct or sonographic visualization. In these circumstances, administration of anesthesia and analgesia serves purposes unrelated to reduction of fetal pain, including inhibition of fetal movement, prevention of fetal hormonal stress responses, and induction of uterine atony.
Conclusions Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester. Little or no evidence addresses the effectiveness of direct fetal anesthetic or analgesic techniques. Similarly, limited or no data exist on the safety of such techniques for pregnant women in the context of abortion. Anesthetic techniques currently used during fetal surgery are not directly applicable to abortion procedures.

reply from: GratiaPlena

Fetus is Latin for 'little person'. Try again.
And even if unborn children can't feel pain, so what? What if I put a twenty-year-old under anesthetics? Would it be morally acceptable to kill them since they can no longer feel pain?

reply from: Hereforareason

"Intill there is proof without a reasonable doubt that the bible is true I'll galdly believe in it "
What would you consider proof without a reasonable doubt?
Amber

reply from: boinky78

[What would you consider proof without a reasonable doubt? ]
God telling me with his or hers own mouth that everything in the bible is true

reply from: Banned Member

I am shocked by the amount of people on this forum that actually believe that a victim of rape who becomes pregnant should be forced to carry it to term. That would be like taking that rape & extending it over a 9 month period. That is truly monstrous. Do you think that the rapist has rights as a father to the child to, once it's born? Ignorant people.
As a pregnant woman, I won't start thinking of the fetus growing inside of me as a human child until it starts to move, somewhere around the 20th week. Thats when the brain truly starts to develop, that's around the time it can start to feel pain & be aware of itself. Most abortions are done before the 14th week, less then 1.5 percent are done after the 20th week, and most of that (less than) 1.5% are done due to complications that could endanger the mothers life. That's my answere to the original question. It's now been answered several times by several people. Stop whining about no one answering it.

reply from: jujujellybean

well until I hear an animal talking to me I won't believe that they do really have the same intelligence as us!

reply from: jujujellybean

boinky, then what is it? If it isn't a baby, than you aren't pregnant, so what are you aborting?

reply from: Hereforareason

"God telling me with his or hers own mouth that everything in the bible is true"
So if there is a God who has formed you and created this universe.....you think you can demand that he appear to you and tell you that he didn't lie when he said the bible was the inspired word of God? The prophesies in the bible that came true, the historical confirmation of biblical accounts, the fact that you are extremely complex in your design weren't enough for God to give you?
"I am shocked by the amount of people on this forum that actually believe that a victim of rape who becomes pregnant should be forced to carry it to term. That would be like taking that rape & extending it over a 9 month period."
And I am shocked that you think it is: A: Right B: helps the girl to kill her innocent child. You want to put that girl through an abortion when she has just been raped? Maybe a baby was not wanted at the time, but nothing good is going to come from spilling it's blood.
"As a pregnant woman, I won't start thinking of the fetus growing inside of me as a human child until it starts to move, somewhere around the 20th week."
So is it wrong to have an abortion at 22 weeks? 24? 21?
Amber

reply from: boinky78

[So if there is a God who has formed you and created this universe.]
I'm not saying that there isnt a god I'm saying the bible might not be valid and I have reason enough to believe so
[you think you can demand that he appear to you and tell you that he didn't lie when he said the bible was the inspired word of God?]
Why should I go by word of mouth?most things in the universe are proven
the bible hasnt been proven
so why should I believe in it?
[The prophesies in the bible that came true]
Things in the bible relate to all decades I'm sure you could pick one verse in the bible and relate it to atleast one event in evey decade
it isnt a prediction
[the historical confirmation of biblical accounts]
So?lots of fictional books have historical events in them
does that make them true?No

reply from: Banned Member

And if I don't see a baby as a human child until it's 6 years old, I should be allowed to kill 5 year olds?

reply from: Banned Member

Obviously, you've never been raped & have no idea what that experience can be like. A girl who gets raped should have that choice, should she get pregnant. If I had gotten pregnant, & I wasn't allowed an abortion, I would have cut it out of me myself rather than have twist in my guts for nine months.
And, no, I don't think that abortions should take place that late in pregnancy unless it is detrimental to the mothers health. Most that happen that late is to protect the mothers health, so I don't worry about it too much.

reply from: jujujellybean

boinky you didn't answer my guestion! If it isn't a baby, than you aren't pregnant, so what are you abortion?
As Kay would say, I love how you avoid things when you can't answer them!

reply from: kyc

"There are plenty of people that cannot have kids that would love that PERSON!"
Women aren't baby factories, they shouldn't be force to give birth because other people want it. There isn't an orphan shortage last time I checked so these people who are willing to wait for years to get their hands on a baby could adopt a toddler or child or teen.
Have you ever had an abortion?

reply from: kyc

"My view in a rape scenario is this: No being should suffer for the sins of its father/mother. Why should an innocent life be deprived of the promise and hope intended because of the sin or violence of its parent?"
Why traumatize the woman even more? She didn't ask to be raped and is just as innocent as the fetus so why should the fetus be put above her? I've been raped several times and nothing compares to it but if I had got pregnant as a result and had to carry it to term I honestly would have killed myself. I know there are plenty of women who have their rape babies and even keep them but not all women are that strong mentally after their rape and shouldn't be forced to be.

reply from: pookiy1980

Seriously I don't know if you are for real or just really that ignorent, but I will play.
Dead skin cells do not grow into people, however the "cells" you want to abort do make up a person.
A tumor that grows on a person does not grow into a little person however a fetus does.
Do you really think that the dead skin cells washed off your body would grow into a person if they did not sloth off?

reply from: pookiy1980

Chickens and cows are not and do not have the potential to become people.
DUH!

reply from: pookiy1980

Wrong premies are often born with undevelopes lungs, what do you concider them?
What about those born without arms, or legs or a finger?
Do some research look up what fetus, person, baby look at the real definitions.

reply from: kyc

fetus
Main Entry:
fe·tus Listen to the pronunciation of fetus
Pronunciation:
\?f?-t?s\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Latin, act of bearing young, offspring; akin to Latin fetus newly delivered, fruitful - more at feminine
Date:
14th century
: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth
Main Entry: ba·by
Pronunciation:
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural babies
1 : an extremely young child; especially : INFANT
2 : an extremely young animal
- baby adjective
- ba·by·hood / noun
- ba·by·ish /-ish/ adjective
I used Merriam-Webster's dictionary, not dictionary.com and according to them a fetus isn't a baby and a baby isn't a fetus.

reply from: pookiy1980

"People think it's intimidating when a girl is cool with her sexuality I'm a 180 to the stereotype girls like staying home and being innocent"
tata young -_^
There is another boinky on a web page who thinks a girl who is raped often is "asking for it" by their dress exc. Is this the same person?

reply from: kyc

"Human beings are more important than other animals, at least to other human beings."
If I had to pick between you or my dog I would pick my dog without a doubt. I don't know you, I don't love you or care about you so I'm not going to pick your life over my dog's who I do know, love and care about simply because you're human.

reply from: kyc

"Human DNA yes, but not a heart, brain and soul."
Please show me where the soul is located.

reply from: boinky78

pookiy what makes human life important?

reply from: boinky78

[There is another boinky on a web page who thinks a girl who is raped often is "asking for it" by their dress exc. Is this the same person? ]
I'm not even slightly sexist
so no
those are song lyrics in my signature

reply from: pookiy1980

I am not a pro-murder but I have read many of them talk about this 'magical vagina'. Ya know inside the vagina not a person/baby out side the vagina viola it's a baby!

reply from: kyc

"If it isn't a baby, than you aren't pregnant, so what are you abortion?"
A zygote or fetus depending how far along it is at the time it's aborted.

reply from: pookiy1980

Yet you said this:
"That's idiotic to compare your hair to an unborn person."
So if a fetus is not a person then what is this unborn person you are talking about?
Make up your mind!

reply from: boinky78

Yet you said this:
"That's idiotic to compare your hair to an unborn person."
I never said that post the topic link where I said that XD

reply from: kyc

"I'm betting you would be offended if somebody chose the life of their hamster over your mother's life..."
You bet wrong. I've met my mother a grand total of four times and I can honestly say she means nothing to me. I have no attachment to her at all so if somebody had to pick between her or their pet that they love and care for so be it, it wouldn't affect me in the slightest. They could also pick their pet's life over my father or my 23 siblings that I've never met and I'd still be fine and dandy.
"Right, I noted the exception for sociopaths."
Are you calling me a sociopath?
"How about this, do you know anybody in Europe? If not, would see all of Europe destroyed to save your dog?"
I do know people in Europe but that doesn't make your question any less ridiculous. The lives of an entire continent can't be compared to one life. I'd kill myself if it'd save an entire continent but if it's a stranger or my dog, my dog is going to win every time.
If you had to pick between killing me or killing your child, who would pick and why?

reply from: pookiy1980

You did and since you don't like to research anything here it is for you:
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=3255&STARTPAGE=3&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
Now make up your mind!

reply from: boinky78

I was quoteing ash
Ashes statement
["Your hair doesn't have a heartbeat, fingers, toes, own blood supply, insides, systems, arms, legs, or a female/male part.
That's idiotic to compare your hair to an unborn person.
ALSO!!!!!!! YOU HAIR contains YOUR DNA. The unborn's DNA is NOT THE SAME as the parent's! " ]
My statement
Well I would think that's just about as stupid as using the
"it has human dna argument" xD

reply from: pookiy1980

Gotcha here is how you use the quote button to eliminate any potential mishaps...
when you are loged in click "quote" then the whole comment will show and you can make your comment a little easier to read

reply from: kyc

One stranger or my dog. If I had to save one it will be the dog every time. Two people or my dog, I'd pick the two people. It's simple math. If the number who would die is equal to that of the number you could save then pick the one that means the most to you, providing you have a connection to these people.
As for my question about your child or me, don't bull*****. If it came down to it you would pick your child every single time. Why? Because you care and love your child and you want them alive and well, in other words for purely selfish reasons. Is it selfish for me to want my dog alive instead of you? Yes but I love my dog more then I love any person. The majority of people would pick somebody they care about over a stranger, in my case it just happens to be something instead of someone. That doesn't make me a sociopath. So far I haven't been diagnosed as a sociopath by any of the therapists I've seen so I'm going to go with them on this one, no offense.
According to my mother she's had 12 other children and my father's had 11. I only have her word to go on so it could or could not be true, either way I don't know or care about any of them. They mean nothing to me so why would I care if a person choose to save their hamster instead of one of them?
I've had a very hard life and in my opinion being aborted would have been better for me then to have been put up for adoption, if that makes me suspicious in your mind then so be it.

reply from: jujujellybean

then why do firefighters save people before they go in and save animals? Why is that? If we are all equal than why is there that rule?

reply from: boinky78

[then why do firefighters save people before they go in and save animals? Why is that?]
Because society has taught us to value human life over any other lifeform
(Humans are animals too tho)
[If we are all equal than why is there that rule? ]
Why do humans have the right to ruin the earth with buildings etc?
That just how it is
people can't understand what dogs/cats are saying so we label them as stupid
if we could understand what a cow was saying we'd think twice before killing it and eating it

reply from: Hereforareason

"(Humans are animals too tho) "
Again, we don't agree. But that thinking is expected when you say what you do.
"Why do humans have the right to ruin the earth with buildings etc? "
Ruin the earth, no. But to have dominion over it and use it to our benefit with care, yes we do have that right. It was given to us by God.
"people can't understand what dogs/cats are saying so we label them as stupid
if we could understand what a cow was saying we'd think twice before killing it and eating it "
They have no soul, no deep thoughts. Their thoughts center around food, warmth and comfort.
Dogs and maybe cats have loyalty and can be very smart, but they do not have souls.
Amber

reply from: boinky78

[Ruin the earth, no. But to have dominion over it and use it to our benefit with care, yes we do have that right. It was given to us by God. ]
What does your religion have to do with me?
[They have no soul, no deep thoughts. Their thoughts center around food, warmth and comfort. ]
Sounds like a human
[Dogs and maybe cats have loyalty and can be very smart, but they do not have souls. ]
What does your religion have to do with me?

reply from: kyc

"then why do firefighters save people before they go in and save animals?"
It's their job. In a HYPOTHETICAL situation if I had to choose between one stranger I have no feelings for or my dog, I would without a doubt pick my dog.

reply from: kyc

"Again, we don't agree. But that thinking is expected when you say what you do."
You'd have to be a moron to say humans aren't animals.
"It was given to us by God."
Can you prove that without using the bible?
"They have no soul, no deep thoughts. Their thoughts center around food, warmth and comfort. Dogs and maybe cats have loyalty and can be very smart, but they do not have souls."
There's no proof that humans have souls either.

reply from: Hereforareason

"[They have no soul, no deep thoughts. Their thoughts center around food, warmth and comfort. ]
Sounds like a human "
Which is why we are having this discussion about morality.........
"
You'd have to be a moron to say humans aren't animals. "
Besides another personal attack, do you want to explain what you mean here by animals? Did we come from monkeys?
"
There's no proof that humans have souls either."
Then what do you define as a soul? We don't seem to be talking about the same thing.
Amber

reply from: pookiy1980

was juju's question ever answered by the pc's? or just beat around the bush?

reply from: boinky78

[was juju's question ever answered by the pc's? or just beat around the bush? ]
I answered her question like twice on pm but she still asks the question as if its a good argument

reply from: jujujellybean

sry boinky for upsetting you. I would like a little more info on why, though. Besides it need experience and intelligence and all that crud!

reply from: jujujellybean

so sad, so sad you would do that. What if it was a newborn child, and the mother was right next ot you screaming save my child, save my child? Would you stand there and demand for them to get your dog?

reply from: boinky78

[sry boinky for upsetting you. I would like a little more info on why, though. Besides it need experience and intelligence and all that crud! ]
You didnt upset me I'm just annoyed by your ignorance
no it doesnt thats what the meaning of "person"is

reply from: boinky78

[What if it was a newborn child, and the mother was right next ot you screaming save my child, save my child? ]
If there was a newborn child standing next to your father
who would you save?
the person you love or a random newborn baby?
How do you know that she doesnt love her dog?it is possible for someone to love a dog and is it possible for a dog to love a human
so why should she be expected to save someone who she has no connection to?

reply from: yoda

Perhaps because "she" is a human being?
Although there are notable exceptions, most human beings have some compassion for their fellow humans who are in great need.
Are you an exception, boinky?

reply from: jujujellybean

its called caring, and by your response our country needs more of it. And I don't know, truthfully. I would want to save my father, but the baby wouldn't have even have had a chance to live, so my dad would say for me to save the baby. As much as it would hurt I would obey him. He would die knowing he saved a life!

reply from: boinky78

[its called caring, and by your response our country needs more of it. ]
No I care about people I'm just realistic

reply from: boinky78

[Perhaps because "she" is a human being? ]
I do not value human life just because it is human I value the lives of those I care for rather they are a dog or a human
[Are you an exception, boinky? ]
Yup

reply from: boinky78

[He would die knowing he saved a life! ]
She would be saving a life the dogs life

reply from: Banned Member

Right, I noted the exception for sociopaths. How about this, do you know anybody in Europe? If not, would see all of Europe destroyed to save your dog? I'm betting you would be offended if somebody chose the life of their hamster over your mother's life...I'm betting you're just another example of a person who really only cares about his/herself. You choose your dog, not out of consideration for the dog, but because of the loss you would suffer... Like I said, people like you are why society needs laws.
All anybody cares about is themselves when it concerns death. You care about yourself or the other people around you that are sharing your loss. That's why condolences are offered to the survivors, not the deceased.
If a person believes the dead are going to Heaven, then they don't feel sorry for them because they are in a better place, If a person believes the dead are going to hell, they don't feel for them because they brought it on themselves. If a person believes in reincarnation, then they don't feel for them because they know that death is not an end, just the next step in the journey. If a person believes that nothing happens after death, then there is nothing to grieve for the dead person because they just cease to be.
No one mourns the person or thing that died, they mourn their loss.
I have no expectation that anyone would choose my mother over their own hamster. Just as I wouldn't choose them over my cat.

reply from: yoda

Thanks, boinky..... your sentiment explains perfectly well how you can support elective abortion "on demand".
Those strangers are on their own, right? I mean, you'd never be caught dead trying to be a good samaritan, right?

reply from: yoda

I'm starting to feel a little bit sorry for you, Syrenity. You must have had a rough life to think that way.
I want you to know that many, many of us here would choose your mother, or anyone's mother over their hamster or cat. And we'd do it in a minute.
I really feel sad that you can't understand that.

reply from: jujujellybean

just want to point out that she called me ignorant, something that she said she gets called all the time on here. Hmmm, it was one of her own!

reply from: boinky78

[Those strangers are on their own, right?]
If you had to choose me over your mother
who would you choose?
the person you care about or some random girl you dont even know

reply from: yoda

boinky, that's totally irrelevant.
Abortion is not a matter of choosing someone over your mother, 95% of all abortions are not even done for medical reasons. They're "elective".
Here's a more relevant question: Would you rather choose for both people to live, or choose for one of them to die?

reply from: boinky78

Yoda I was using that as an example you call me selfish for wanting to choose an animals life that I care about over a random person
[ Would you rather choose for both people to live, or choose for one of them to die? ]
If that other "thing" isnt an unwanted fetus
then yeah Id want both to live

reply from: Banned Member

I'm starting to feel a little bit sorry for you, Syrenity. You must have had a rough life to think that way.
I want you to know that many, many of us here would choose your mother, or anyone's mother over their hamster or cat. And we'd do it in a minute.
I really feel sad that you can't understand that.
If there were an award given for taking things out of context, you would get it. Congratulations!
I am well aware that there are a lot of people who would choose differently, but it's not for the reasons you describe. I don't believe in altruism, sorry, it doesn't exist. I volunteer in my community because helping my community makes me feel good about myself. If it didn't I wouldn't do. A lot of people love to play martyr. You can go through life with rose colored shades on if you wish, but I prefer to live in the real world.

reply from: Hereforareason

"
I have no expectation that anyone would choose my mother over their own hamster. Just as I wouldn't choose them over my cat."
I'm sorry you have such a view. How do you view your own life?
An animals life is never worth more than a human life. Even though there are some specifically that I would have to force myself to help......human life is more valuable than an animal. Humans have souls, they are created in God's image and he gave them worth.
Amber

reply from: Banned Member

I'm sorry, but your religious beliefs hold no sway over me. I don't believe we were created in any image & as a pagan, I believe that all things have a spirit, not just humans, animals, trees, insects, flowers...all things. My beliefs are no less valid than yours.
But if you are only able to see the world through your religions point of view, what makes you think that it isn't their time to go. Most Christians I talk to say that when you die, it's just your time, God is calling you home. What makes you think that is not the case here. How do you know you're not questioning God's plan?

reply from: 4given

Because God is the giver of life! God's plan, does not call for the murderous hands of his given life, to devour/destroy the future of His children! The Bible says God knows the beginning and the end. He has a perfect will for our lives, but also a permissive will. If we do not obey Him, we have to suffer the consequences. The wages of sin are death. One that commits such a heinous act, abortion, will be accountable for that act. God allows through the blood of His Son Jesus, Redemption. Repentance and remission of sins bring forth life eternally.

reply from: jujujellybean

surprise, I would choose you. You are young and haven't had a long life like her. She would also probab;y yell at me for ever if I killed you instead, so I wouldn't have a choice. I know I don't know you, but my morals teach me that no one is better than another, and emotions shouldn't have anything to do with it!

reply from: jujujellybean

so do you kill spiders and are you against wearing bug spray cause it might hurt a bug? Are you against giving bouquets of flowers because it kills the flowers?

reply from: boinky78

[surprise, I would choose you.]
YOU SELFISH BITCH YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO FIGHT FOR BOTH OF OUR LIVES UNTILL THEY BACK DOWN AND LET US BOTH LIVE MURDERER!
lol j/k
[and emotions shouldn't have anything to do with it! ]
but anyway the whole prolife argument is based off of emotion
so wtf do you mean?

reply from: jujujellybean

I wouldn't want to save you, necessarily, but my mom would make me if I tried to protest. She would willingly give her life for someone so that they could live. And then I wouldn't be guilty knowing I saved my mom and lets some girl I barely know die. Not that I like you over my mom, but hopefully you catch my drift!

reply from: yoda

How about newborns? Would you want them to die too?
Why stop at birth? Why not wish for all babies under a year old to die?

reply from: yoda

I understand that, Syrenity....... you don't believe in doing anything for anyone else in order to benefit them. You believe that everything is done for selfish reasons, so you think selfishness is just as good as altruism. In fact, you actually seem to hold it in higher esteem than altruism.
But that's a necessary attitude for someone who advocates killing babies, isn't it?

reply from: jujujellybean

well, unless pro choicers are selfish, then they base their ideas of emotions too, thank you...

reply from: boinky78

No I could careless about what someone does with their vagina or what they choose to crawl out of it

reply from: yoda

Wow....... thanks, boinky.... your display of the typical proabort's callous indifference towards unborn humanity is crystal clear......

reply from: jujujellybean

ok I don't think that related to mine...but if it did whatever. Anyway, you know that march for life thing for pro choicers? Well, those women have never met almost all women who have abortions or want to, so unless they feel emotion for them not being able to have a choice, than they are selfish!


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics