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Young Desperate Girls in search - is society to blame?

Uneducated disasters such as this one are unacceptable....

by: NewMom

First, some background info on me. I am 21 years old, and got pregnant before I finished college, before I bought my first car, before I was married etc. I am currently 11 weeks pregnant and its been a struggle with everyone around me accepting it. Everyone, including family, friends, and even outsiders. I had a close friend with whom I ended the friendship because they told me this child would ruin my life, and I should have an abortion. I have always been anti-abortion and was mortified that this idea would even creep into this person's head. I have a wonderful fiance and parents who love me, whose to tell me I'm ruining my life?! My entire family is Catholic and so is my fiance's, and I'm being told that I am living in sin, since my fiance and I refuse to get married before the baby comes because its "the right thing to do" - we want to wait and do it when we are ready to and plan it so we can actually enjoy it and feel free from pressure. Everyone is angry we set our date after our child's expected birth date. Who puts these pressures on women? We only have one life, and only a few shots at creating life - why argue with fate? But abort my child? No.
So after much outcry and thoughts since joining this forum, it got me to thinking. It baffles me that society puts these pressures on our youth to perform whether it be academically, socially, spiritually, etc. I've been to university, and have been to some college and withdrew to go to work so I could provide for my child when it comes, so uneducated I am not. But I suppose I posess the strength and confidence in myself that no matter how hard things could get, I have another life inside of me to provide for and take care of.
We can all agree abortion is immoral, but let's first consider the reasons why young girls these days feel pressured into it, or that they have no choice. I know of many girls who began to have sex at a young age, and I have always believed no matter how young you are, you made that decision to do it and should accept the "consequence"; a negative word for something so natural around the world. If anyone else has read my previous posts in regards to birth control as abortion in another topic, what I say to you is this. Would you rather a young girl be pressured into abortion due to the social pressures she faces? Or would you rather she take a birth control pill? Before addressing and pointing fingers I think its important to understand perhaps why women and young girls feel they have been pressured into thinking abortion is the right choice.
For myself, my goal is to educate the girls and women around me in my social circle that abortion is not a solution, but creates more of a problem. I have a girlfriend who recently told me that she had an abortion a couple years ago when she was a bit further along than I am and that extremely bothered me. I love her and support her in her decision no matter how ugly I think it is, but what needs to change is the pressure she felt. She was scared of what her parents would say, of what her boyfriend would do, of how she could afford it, and that she had to put her future on halt. She already felt movement inside her and she aborted it. Yesterday I got to hear my child's heartbeat for the first time and I'm still in a mood of serenity over it, and feel so joyous - yet one of my friends was in the same situation and felt so disgusted by society's moldings that she ended her child's life.
Just a suggestion, but perhaps if we work on eliminating the social pressure and social dissappointment when someone younger conceives, the immediate thought of aborting wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind when faced with an unplanned pregnancy. We all know socially, younger women are at a higher rate of aborting.
I found this blurb posted in a forum (below), and it was what prompted me to speak out and say we need to educate these girls better and provide a more accepting environment before we can point the finger and tell them they are immoral human beings.
Tags: natural abortion, Natural Methods to Induce Early Labour,


04/20/2007 18:26
reine
Posts: 5
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I'm 17 and I'm still in highschool. I'm 2 months pregnant and don't know what to do. My parents don't know anything about it, and my boyfriend is not very supportive. I've done 3 home pregnancy tests and an ultrasound. The doctor assured me that the pregnancy is going along beautifully, that hurt to hear.
I can't have an abortion at a clinic, my father would kill me, my mother will tell him for sure.
I don't want this baby either. There's nothing I can offer him, he would be unwanted and he wouldn't have a father. I am not ready. I want to go to college, I want to make something of myself.
I'm rather desperate.
Is there any way to abort naturally? I heard that moving furniture around could help, as could hot baths, with mustard seeds as vasodialator. I tried all this - nothing! My grandmother once said that she aborted once by inserting a straw in her cervix and holding it there for a few days. I also heard this variant from a neighbor, this time with pouring soapy water down the straw.
I'm not THAT desperate yet, but I will be soon, as to try this also.
Are there any less dangerous methods? Medicines/methods that can induce early labour?
Thanks for all support/ideas, I'm getting extremely desperate, I'm a nervous wreck.

Origional text at:
http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/holistic-alternative-support-forums/general-questions-and-support/1484-natural-abortion

reply from: yoda

By posting that link, you are promoting that website, whether you intended to or not.

reply from: Wrench

I would rather girls not use birth control and not have sex - thereby preventing not only all chance of pregnancy, but also all chance of STDs and broken hearts.
I know it's not a popular thing to say, I know I would get a better reception if I said, "It doesn't matter what you do, just take a pill or use a piece of latex and all will be well." But I can't, in good conscious, say that. It's not true. It's simply not.
Inside the vagina, between the opening and the cervix, is a ring called the transformation zone. This zone is particularly vulnerable to the spread of infection, which is mainly why women are more vulnerable to STD infections than are men. When a woman has a surge of estrogen, like in her teenage years and when on the birth control pill, this transformation zone is larger; for women who go into adulthood without taking the birth control pill, the transformation zone shrinks and becomes a small ring around the cervix.
If, on the other hand, she decides to practice "safer sex" and take oral contraceptives, this transformation zone becomes larger - making her more susceptible to the spread of infectious diseases. This susceptibility will not be off-set by condom use; if her partner has herpes or the human papoloma virus, condoms may not prevent the spread of infection. HPV is the most common STD, and some strains of it lead to cervical cancer.
Additionally, for younger women in their prime fertile years, birth control may not be effective against their bodies' natural drive to procreate. For some women birth control will never work, no matter what they take or how dutifully they take it. Over 80% of women taking the pill admit to having skipped days and not following the instructions given to them by their doctors. Yet the women most likely to be on the pill are between the ages of 17 and 25 - women in their prime fertile years, who are also most likely to not take the contraceptives correctly.
I don't advocate the birth control pill, not because I think it causes abortions directly in how it works, but because I know that it contributes to abortions due to its raising the rates of sexual activity. I know it raises the risk of STD transmission. I know it lures women into a false sense of security, then provides nothing for them when it fails - except for an increased risk of breast and cervical cancer. Woo-hoo.

reply from: NewMom

I couldn't agree more completely, and I don't advocate the birth control pill either in all cases; I hope that women like myself would use it wisely in their own life's decisions. It does pose as a false sense of security as younger girls think they won't have to make their partner wear a condom resulting in raised risk of STD's. These things are what I am saying that worry me about the girls and women I know. My attempts in my own life and on here, is for someone young hopefully to read these facts. Different for me as I had no false sense of security and knew exactly what I was doing while engaging in the act, but not so true for other girls/women not even necesarily younger than I.

reply from: NewMom

By posting that link, you are promoting that website, whether you intended to or not.
Yodavater, anything I post you seem to bash anyway. But I will clarify it again for you! I was stating that if we as a society, educated our young girls and women better on not just birth control but risks and also abortion, perhaps abortion rates would be lower, STD rates would be lower, and society would be more trusting of eachother as a whole. And using the website, much as other people post pictures and other websites and videos as you would say "promoting them whether they realise it or not," myself and other fellow members of this forum post these in here to show that people still believe in these kinds of things, and there's something we should do about it instead of sitting in here writing!

reply from: yoda

"Education" need not include exposure to alternate ways to kill babies. To bring them up is to promote them, no matter how much you deny it.
We already know that people believe all sorts of nasty, repulsive things, and that they put those beliefs on the web. Believe it or not, we don't need proof of that!!
I have time in my day for "sitting here writing", and for participating in the "40 Days for Life" project, and for helping to relocate the "Crosses for the Unborn" monthly, and for assisting prolife organizations in many other ways..... is your day too short for that?
We can help babies more by spreading the prolife message, not the message of death you seem to want us to look at.
This forum is pretty much open to anyone, but it grates on my nerves when someone comes here under false pretenses. If you're proabort, why not just come out and say it?

reply from: coco

I think me and you newmom are on the same track ignore yoda he lives in lala land. ANYWHO, yes there is a TON of reasons that girls have sex, those issues most be "handled" FIRST. I also think that if girls are having sex they should be on b.c, we as parents should inform our children of the "dangers " the world has to offer them. TRY not to make sex as a taboo like some on here advocate, sex is NOT a bad thing it is natural we are sexual beings!! I personally think masturbation is great that is how you "FIND" out about your bobdy and your likes and dislikes. I would NOT encourage my sons to have sex, but at the age of 8 and 6 they know what menstration or a period is, they know what erections are (they often have them) and they "explore" thier private areas. They didnt know what the purpose of their penis was they would just touch themselves and found that that "felt good", so they kept on doing it. NOW if you tell me that these kids that know of nothing sexually are not sexual beings yet they "touch" themselves not knowing what they are doing and how society thinks what they are doing is immoral then there is something wrong with you. many kids at the age of 2 or 3 touch themselves and CONSTANTLY do it untill they are told not to because it is not right. I tell my kids that they do it in private and NO ONE wants to see that, and if you do it out in public that is VERY disrespectful and you could go to jail!! They FULLY are aware of the seriousness of it and I have already took them to the local police office on a seperate matter to scare the living crap out of them.
sorry for the raint, YES I think that social pressure does also play a BIG role in the minds of BOYS AND GIRLS sexual views, it is seen as no big deal and if you arent having sex you are lame and a dork or you cant get any, I just dont think kids think that anything can happen to them. To be honest with you that is what I thougt then 4 years of NOT getting pregnant I was pregnant and that was that!!

reply from: yoda

You know, although that's probably true, it's not necessarily a compliment.

reply from: coco

oh yea and I was in the same boat as you are but I was on my 2nd kid at 21, I am still not married I dont let others dictate what is good for my situation!! I have gotten a whole lot of stuff for it but I guesss the rebel in me doesnt care what everyone else thinks!! Me and my partner are going on 11 years strong and have "broken up" once for a day so I considered us basiclly married without the paper and I am totally fine with it!! SO my suggestion is do what is best for YOU and SCREW what everyone else thinks, if you fell that marriage is right for you then go for it, but just because people whisper things to eachother a marriage should not be based on what others WANT YOU TO DO, but it should be based on LOVE and COMMITMENT!! ANYHOW CONGRATS, parent hood is a TOUGH job kids can be a pain in the a** like mines but I wouldnt give them up for the world. They are the love of my life, and I LOVE them to death!!
p.s ENJOY THEM WHILE THEY ARE LITTLE BABIES, they like to cuddle then and you dont embarress them either!! GOODLUCK and if you ever need someone to talk to I could lend out an ear!!

reply from: Hereforareason

There is a lot of social pressure out there that should not be. However, I think a lot of what you are referring to is the sense that to be pregnant before being married is wrong. That is true. It is wrong. Our youth need to be educated. They need to be told that there are rights and wrongs. They need to know what they are. Sex before marriage is one. Abortion is another. 2 wrongs do not make a right.
Let's start with changing the social pressure that you HAVE to have sex before being married or you are not "in".
Then let's teach and encourage these young people and help them along, even if they did choose something wrong the first time around. If all of our youth knew all of the details about the LIFE that lives in the womb, there would be less abortions.
Amber

reply from: faithman

You are exacly right. If every school had the fiber optic womb child photos in every biology class room, abortion on demand would be over in less than 10 years. We are working on our local school system to that end. It would behoove us to get pro-lifers on school boards, and get the live pictures in our schools. We should also pass ordinances at the local level, that all medical facilities that deal in reproductive issues have to show the developement pictures. These are very do-able, and gives folk a positive way to get involved.

reply from: Wrench

To some extent I agree - but I think it's dangerous to tell our young adults that humanity is present when a being "looks" like a human. A biologist can look at a morula and say, "http://To some extent I agree - but I think it Young adults still bucking to find their individual identities are very easily persuaded, especially by skilled rhetoric, which is why we need to be the one side willing to give it to them straight, and tell them that "personhood" is a lie, a function of humanity which is intrinsic in our very being from the moment of conception. They need to be taught to think consistently and rationally, and to know that the abortion debate is really a debate on whether or not our rights are actually our own. That's the crux of it - not what the embryo looks like.

reply from: Wrench

Hmmm, for some reason the link didn't work. That should read, "A biologist can look at a morula and say, 'Yup, that's a human being.'"

reply from: 4given

You are exacly right. If every school had the fiber optic womb child photos in every biology class room, abortion on demand would be over in less than 10 years. We are working on our local school system to that end. It would behoove us to get pro-lifers on school boards, and get the live pictures in our schools. We should also pass ordinances at the local level, that all medical facilities that deal in reproductive issues have to show the developement pictures. These are very do-able, and gives folk a positive way to get involved.
I agree that action needs to be taken at every opportunity. I spend as much time as possible inside the school, speaking with other parents, as to ways we can secure our child's future by seizing every opportunity to take control. Not very many pro-life parents that I have come to know had even considered the possibility of taking a position- or that it would lead to potential in deciding who educates our children, and the materials that are used. Many of whom have seen the IAAP cards, and were horrified at the idea that PP is teaching sex ed to our children. I would not have entertained the idea that I could influence or decide what my child was educated by or who, until the discussion some time ago in a different thread. Parents need to really be pro-active when it comes to one's childs education in a public school setting. Simply asking for the lesson plan and reading the materials that our children are being taught! (the books don't usually come home, so I had to request them) Especially when the health class wants to educate them sexually. Not that anyone wants another round of sex. ed. discussion! I know I had my share! dread

reply from: DocQuack

Holy cow!
Am I just an old fuddy duddy or what, but encouraging 2 year-old, 3 year-old, 6 year-old, and 8 year-old little boys to be whack jobs?!! This is somehow less vulgar than seeing butchered babies due to the murder of Abortion?
I have nothing much to type because I don't know whether to laugh my a@@ off or cry. Yeah, I remember freaky little boys like that in school. Some had no discipline and were our class brats later expelled. Some just sat around picking their noses all day and flinging boogers at girls. Others would lift up girl dresses. Just little, self-indulgent freaks running around. Sometimes they became altar boys and would snicker at us while up there on the altar. They were always the first to snitch to the teacher. If not that, they were just a mental mess in many other ways. Their Liberal "Catholic" parents stuffed them in school because they knew they wouldn't get the 3 R's anywhere else.
In all my life, I thank God I never heard my grannies or aunts telling me they gave themselves an abortion by sticking a straw up the cervix (as a poster in another thread yapped about). Such talk they would never do even if they had one, and they never did. Just weren't that way. And, for all my parents and their flaws, I can at least thank God they didn't teach me that crap. "Oh my. What a good little boy! Yes, yes. Keep doing that; Just not in public. Feel free to spank your monkey!"
Oh, man oh man. Such is the country I was once willing to kill and die for. Screw that! Let those whack job little boys go off to war in the future. I think I need to go smoke some rasta for real after entering this thread! I'm outa here. See you whack jobs later. Too much strokin' going on in this thread! :-( Maternal Pedophilia you call that where I come from.

reply from: coco

IF YOU THINK THAT THE HUMAN BODY IS PERVERTED AND NASTY THEIR IS SOMETHING MAJORLY WRONG WITH YOU. FYI, it is COMPLETLEY NORMAL for children to explore thier bodies I FELL SORRY FOR YOUR KIDS, what do you do when they are in the bath tub and start touching thier areas repetedly??? I bet you LOCK them in a closet and make them pray for forgivness like the scene in CARRIE!! YOU ARE A SAD PERSON, with self body issues I suggest you see a shrink!!
http://parentcenter.babycenter.com/0_masturbation-why-it-happens-and-what-to-do-about-it_63674.pc?Ad=com.bc.common.AdInfo%40186a0f36
http://www.aboutourkids.org/aboutour/articles/sexual_development_part2.html

reply from: yoda

coco, how much does Planned Parenthood pay you to post here?

reply from: DocQuack

Coco,
Didn't they tell you I'm also known as the Doctor of Love?!
Why are you so fond of kiddie strokin'?
I suggest you also take up some smokin'!
The rasta doc here's got just the right doub for you to pucker up with!

reply from: coco

Thanks rasta doc, "kiddie stroken" is a NORMAL thing, it should not be attached with a negitive stigma. I have taken college courses on the develping child in psychology to know that all kids go threw a "discovery" period, I guess if you are "afraid" of your children when they grow up being a "pervert" or something then maybe you would be so scared of the thought! But I want my boys to have wonderful sex when the time is right, and I think it is ok to let them "explore" but just convey to them that it SHOULD not be done in front of anyone, and dont let ANYONE touch you!
Oh and buy the way about smokin I already do that so, are you really rastafarian??

reply from: yoda

Wow!
So, you actually took a college course? Wow, I guess that makes you a real expert then, right? I mean, everything they teach in college has to be 100% true, right?
Are you going to write a book now, since you're such an expert?

reply from: coco

Yes I have taken MANY classes at a college level, actually I am obtaining 4year degrees in both Nursing and in Sociology.Actually I have taken MANY classes on family, psychology and sociology and I have GREAT interest in both these areas. In such courses you read MANY books on top of your textbooks and thier are SO many theories out there. And as for your acuracy statement, ACTUALLY a good professor presents BOTH sides of a debate or theory, for YOU to decide what you believe in. That is why I LISTEN to what ALL parties state and then make a INFORMED disicion. As for your expert comment, After my kids are out of the house (or at least grown up) I am going back to school and get a doc degree in Sociology. So about that book, I am getting all my diffrent perspectives from this blogg that would make some interesting entries in my future book!! Look for it in ten years or so !!

reply from: yoda

Wow, I'm really impressed!
So, you didn't think that what you were told about "kiddie stroken" was "true" until you made an "informed decision", right?
So, where did you get the information to base that decision on?

reply from: DocQuack

Good Morning Coco, mi amor!
Am I really a rasta doc? Hah! :-) That was a veiled use of the English language which you might want to re-read. A little rude and crude of me here among such a decent audience, but that's about the most fun and nice thing I can say to a Che worshipper who enjoys posting to a Pro-Life forum pro-abortion propaganda, communist-sociology b.s., and arrogantly telling us we need to be "educated". You wanted us to explore our sexual side, so there you go, my darlin'. Pucker up and puff away on it, pinko!
Ah, but it is Sunday. I should be nice. I have been wondering how I should say it to you. Should I soften things for you? In the end, truth is always best. It hurts at first, but, if I'm going to waste my time typing to you, I might as well chip away at your brainwashed mind rather than antagonize you and send you off weeping or in hatred.
See, Yoda suspects you to be a Planned Parenthood operative. But, I do not think so. Why? Because they usually employ a higher quality enemy for things like that. Having read through some of your posts, it is clear to me that you'd be a receptionist or intern with them at best. Having reviewed your bio and interests, I think you are as you have presented yourself to be.
What I see is a young, college girl and confused single mommy trying to get somewhere in life; Someone with a good heart deep down but with her mind well indoctrinated by the Left.
I also see another arrogant Latina chica running around in the world very opinionated, but upon poor foundations. I see the typical Liberal elitist and school teacher or social worker in formation lecturing everyone on how they should be "educated" while having very poor educations themselves. I'm sure that sounds insulting to your vanity, but it's not really meant to be. I'm not trying to break you down fully. You do need to be humbled just enough so that maybe you'll learn something useful to you over a lifetime. Maybe that'll someday put you on the better path and keep your children from growning up along a path of misery that I see for them over time. Maybe, if you learn something here today, that'll prevent you further confusion, heartache, and will at least weaken your resolve among the side of our national enemies. Just keep in mind that I have bothered to type you more than a couple lines. If I were that cruel, I would simply leave it at my previous post which clearly went over your head.
I'm going to tell you what probably no teacher or professor has ever dared say to you.
See, among the educational establishment's pandering to your "self-esteem" and "feelings" over a lifetime coupled with probably some Affirmative Action considerations and some pinko tart reading your college application essay, what you are is not an "educated" youngster. You are an indoctrinated sheep. You are a pandered to Hispanic allowed to climb through the American educational system with a poor educational foundation. As such, you will never be even capable of operating very effectively among higher level affairs. You can be a worker bee and herded sheep of the cause, but nothing more. And the white Liberals prefer you that way, too. You're just a dumb Latina to them; To be led around. They pat themselves on the back for giving you a helping hand upward. In various form, they talk down to you while professing to believe in social equality, "tolerance", and "justice". Don't you hear what they're saying? They "tolerate" you. You need their ever-superior helping hand because, without it, you'd be incapable of doing it on your own. Never trust the white Liberal. Maybe you have some Hispanic professors that are Leftists and those are usually much more sincere.
You claim to want to be a nurse, a mentor to pregnant teens, and to work in neo-natal care; That you love babies. That's fine. I would not want to shoot down the dreams of youth. You can achieve that. I think you will be much happier there than as some Sociology Ph.D, and I normally would doubt your ability to even get there, but, considering the state of the colleges, you probably can become that. But, in the end, all that "education" you seek is nothing more than a basket-weaving degree.
The classes you boast about taking.....these are the easy, b.s. classes most other majors just laugh off as "filler courses" -- stuff taken to balance out the harder courses; Easy A's and B's; Classes you plug into the semester to raise the units and knock off some general ed while holding your G.P.A. higher. The real classes in English, Math, Business, the Sciences, even many of the Liberal Arts....these are more challenging to students. Those are the mainline educational backbones of society. What you pursue in psychology and sociology is nothing more than the b.s. fluff. Very socially destructive b.s. it is, but the Socialist governments have never valued true education except where it serves the state.
The truth, Jasmine, is that what I see to you and your writing is someone unfit to even hire right now as my secretary or receptionist. My spelling and grammar here are not perfect, either. It is the Internet. People crank out sloppy writings, but what you crank out while calling us all "stupid" simply reads to us as a pitiful case of a young girl who was never even taught the difference between "THEIR", "THERE", and "THEY'RE". There are other dead giveaways to your writing.
I don't mean to come off as some academic snob, but probably your Hispanic "bilingual" nature has been "tolerated" by these wussy white Liberals far too long for the sake of your "self-esteem". That's what your idiot teachers have pumped into your head over the years. They probably weren't into evil, "standardized tests". In the classroom, they want every child to "work at his own pace" and by educational styles that are "meaningful to him". What that becomes is mostly little children sitting around playing in class. No discipline. They're taught they can "touch themselves" all they want, and so become self-indulgent little brats spending more time spanking their monkey or playing video games and watching TV than doing homework. By teenage years, your kids are more likely to be out drinking an having sex while never studying. Then, they get to college with not even a 3rd Grade educational level while actually thinking themselves "educated". And the colleges are all about money and student numbers, so they'll even graduate them.
But, you know what? The educational standards may change and soften, but the hard-line studies of the world do not. English is English and communications are the backbone of just carrying out any kind of executive functions beyond receptionist, secretary, or fast food worker. Math is Math no matter where you go in the world. By the time your children are in the 8th Grade, at the rate you're teaching them this crap, they'll be struggling to just do basic math. Oh, they may dream of growing up to be astronauts, pilots, or something great in their boyhood years, but they'll lose interest and fade out around Geometry, Trig, and Algebra. Why? Because it takes sitting around still in a chair, reading, and discipline rather than spanking your monkey to actually get there. And there are no social promotions of any substance in the sciences. You're either capable of the work or you aren't. There's Differential Calculus, Integral Calculus, Vector Calculus, Tensor Calculus, Differential Equations, Statistics.... all these things to learn just to function seriously in the sciences, engineering, medicine, or business. You need that in order to understand Electricity, Magnetism, and Basic Physics. Oh, yes, the colleges do have easier versions available for the easier majors, but, by going the easy course, all you become is nobody of significance in those mainline fields.
People from those paths can go anywhere in life, Coco. That's the value of a true education. You can spend years as an engineer and run your own company. Or, you can manage any company. Or, you can study a little bit and swap over to Medicine or medical science paths. Just about any profession in the world you can do if having a sound education. Just about any skill you can acquire without taking any courses on the matter and simply teaching yourself. That is the true Educated Man.
A true education builds a capable confidence rather than hollow arrogance based in insecurity because, whatever challenge it is in life, you say, "Yes, I can do that. I may not know how, but I'll find out and get it done. It will probably take this long, cost this much, and I'll need this much help with it."
Children who grow up like this are employable by anyone in anything. Everywhere they go in life, they are offered work, opportunities, and people are willing to train them. All they need do is speak English well, have some basic manners, and learn that showing up on-time for work or getting your work done on time, well, and even early is the key. If kids can do just that, the world is at their feet. If they combine that with a true education, they are able to lead things rather than be herded sheep. But, usually, the whack jobs of the world cannot even get that far. And it's sad to see an entire generation of youth just grown into adults on very poor educational standards. What you consider "college educated" is what my peers were in the 5th to 8th Grade, and that's the sad truth to where our society has gone over the last 20 years.
Your beloved Che Socialist society is breeding children in life who say: "Ooooh. That's too hard. That's impossible. Nobody taught me to do that. I don't know how. I can't do it. It's somebody else's fault. It's not fair. You have an obligation to teach me! To tolerate me! To make good jobs for me! I am not a self-starter. I lack initiative. I lack basic foundations to do anything other than manage a coffee shop, but you owe me a great paying job, benefits, and opportunity!"
Stop trying to "educate" us, Coco. Among the "many" classes you are taking there, if you wish to do well in life, spend more time in remedial English. Then, focus more on your English 1A an 1B classes. If you have somehow managed to cruise through those, take them again. Find yourself an ESL tutor and make use of that college. This way, people won't be able to laugh at you when you talk of being "educated". Among the basic skills in life, you need to be able to read and comprehend things other than Socialist drivel. You need to be able to read, read, read rather than just sit through some class with a yapping communist professor. If you're even going to be an enemy of this Pro-Life cause who isn't comical, you need to be able to draft correspondence for your Planned Barrenhood a-holes. They have speeches to write, websites to run, "journalist" articles to cultivate, and basic office communications to shuffle around like everyone else.
And, generally, when you are trying to argue your point with people, academic credibility isn't established by telling us you've had college courses on this or that. Posting a website link isn't how it's done. We just laugh. Did you see my post on how "Even the Communists Knew Baby Killing is Bad"? See how that's done? I read something and digested it. I shared it with others while citing the source and even giving them some blurbs and notes on it. I put it out there for a supposed "Socialist" and "Marxist" like you to read.
You're no Socialist or Marxist, Coco. The truest of our enemies from these spheres are deep thinkers, philosophers, professors, and can run circles around you in their sleep. Like most the sheep the communists have herded over the decades, you've never studied them deeply. Che is a romantic figure to you; Someone idolized among the movies; Someone people have told you was "for the people" and "the poor". You're basically at the same level as these hick redneck kids who read a couple 8th Grade level propaganda books on Nazism, encounter Nazi mentors but at a college level, and then go running around blaming all the "Jew bankers" of the world.
Like them, you are a good hearted person frustrated with the world and seeking the truth to it, but the foundation you have been given in discerning truth and filtering the crap that entrenches between your ears is very poor. And that's the way totalitarian states prefer to keep people. That's what the white Liberal is: just a closet Nazi and totalitarian state fool pursuing a demonic Utopia. They use minorities and pander to them. The blacks they hang with for awhile, but never as true friends. They give them some servant boy jobs at best. The Hispanics they revere a little bit, but you're still never of their white blood. You're just an overgrown farm worker to them; Just a sheep to be herded and used. It'll be some time before you see that to them, though.
Oh, yes, mark my words: You'll go through life chasing these socialist lies. Eventually, everything you've been taught will break down because there's no sanity to it; No foundation. At some point, you'll realize that, no matter how hard you try, you'll never be one of them. You'll always be an outsider. You might be able to have a nice and happy career as a Socialist Latina in the Latin Americas, but, here in Whitey-owned Rome, you're just a loyal subject of these White Liberal Nazis, my dear.
Since you're such a fan of Socialism and I think a good hearted girl just seeking the truth, I would urge you to simply study the history of Socialism's rise and collapse in Russia to a much deeper level than you've been taught. It always makes me laugh that youth are running around sometimes romantic on Socialism while calling conservatives "Nazis". They forget that Nazism was "National Socialist". They miss the key observation that even old KGB generals grew disgusted with communism in Russia. A great many of the old-timers in Russia knew exactly the origins of Socialism and didn't like it, but were trapped under it. And the smarter ones out there observed that there was never anything communist to Russia that wasn't of American commercial design by a few devils (and, yes, I know that's a double-negative in my sentence, by the way). Just as you have been mentored, so was Communism's rise in Russia. Just a you are mentored, so was Hitler. That is how it is done.
The very fact you think it's all about Left against Right or Right against Left (which most people do buy into) tells me you don't understand that gold rules the world at all times. Learn to follow the money, not your ideals and brainwashing, Coco. Then, you will start to see the world as it truly is and know what can and cannot be done within those limitations.
All you need do to discover that I have told you truth here is to simply grow up more and try to lead things from within your own belief systems. I won't try to convert you to our cause. Just stay on your own side of things and try to become a more capable enemy of us. Eventually, you will find that you can't become that. You will find that you don't have the foundations to even keep up with these elitist, white Liberals; That they maybe promote and pander to you as a token workplace item, but you won't be given much responsibility. Eventually, you will know them for what they are: just bogus baby killers and nutcases -- often with a bleeding-heart streak; often of great intelligence yet no wisdom or sanity; the purest of evil concealed within their black hearts. Just keep going the path you go and you'll find that disgust and demoralization eventually. You'll find a broken heart, certainly.
You and your children will simply never find happiness in life without repair of your shaky foundations. You may not like what I have said and it may hurt, but somebody should have said that to you long ago.
Now, get out of here and go back to your pinko studies. If you keep posting here, now and then, we will correct your grammar and spelling as it hits us in order to at least provide you with an "education" these Liberals clearly haven't. There's a difference between typos, sloppy writing, and just 3rd Grade educational level carried too far by the system.
If you want to be a nurse or mentor youth -- let alone be any kind of serious grad student or anyone taken seriously for her thoughts -- reading and writing in English is critical. Spanish is a handy thing to know these days, but, if you can't communicate effectively in English, you'll never even rise to more than receptionist and twit "activist" with organizations like La Rasa.
If you want to truly help pregnant moms to have better paying jobs, it starts first by teaching them English and how to work well with it. The basic things from 3rd Grade to 8th Grade are key -- how to write letters; how to make a resume; how to write essays and reports; research reports; proper spelling and grammar. It is not okay to have bad spelling and grammar among any kind of serious publication or work. Sloppy internet communications and blogs are socially acceptable but not on serious work. If you can't even draft up a nice letter to a politician along with a pretty grant proposal, well, you're not even a half-assed Leftist yet. Come back and fight with we Pro-Lifers when you are there.
In the meantime, do try to spend less time stroking your kiddies and tickling yourself, and more time on serious studies! :-) I don't mean to be "uncharitable" as a Christian there, but there's only so far I can go. The truth is I'm sitting here reading the pro-abort academic drivel of some 3rd Grader oddly allowed into the colleges, actually daring to lecture me on Psychology when she hasn't even been Pavlov Doggy style schooled all her life, and I really don't need argue the case against self-indulgence and self-esteemed whack jobs too much like this. You make it too easy. No, believe it or not, there are a great many little boys who grew up very normal in the world without the slightest interest in whacking off as toddlers! Some of them were actually busy wondering about the world, taking things apart, reading, playing, engaged in sports, kissing girls, playing doctor with naked girls, or fighting with boys rather than strokin' all day long. I can proudly say, in all honesty, that I was told to get my thumb out of my mouth or it would be covered with spice. As far as touching myself in youth goes, I was taught to wipe my ass better so that I would stop scratching it so much in public. Never once did the subject of playing with myself come up as a little boy because I wasn't walking around and playing with a boner all day long. Probably, in youth I don't recall, I was taught to have some degree of shame, self-control, and privacy in regard to my private parts. And, in my youth, nobody was busy soaping me down. I was left alone in my tub with my rubber ducky. My mommy never came in to say, "Hey, kid. You should have a boner! Oh, that's good. Very good. Woo hoo. Keep it up! Great stuff." I think I do remember something like, "You better put that away before the mice smell it and nibble it off! " Though joking, kid's learn self-control that way. Most the parents I've seen who don't encourage self-control, usually also don't spank their kids or engage in any form of harsh behavior with them when bad. Thus, they have children often crawling all over the furniture and walls when guests in another's home. They're spanking their monkies in public, in private, and just little brats with no self-control or manners half the time.
I cranked out all this typing for your educational benefit and future sanity of your children, not so much to bash you (Go easy on her, Yoda! Same for you, Faith Man. It's not her fault. The system builds them like this.). You're Hispanic, Coco. You're a woman. A single mommy. You're a perfect candidate for the Welfare State and funding for college. Use that opportunity while you have it to obtain a real education.
Your majors are legitimate, but you do need to spend more time on the educational foundations before being so opinionated in the world. I laugh at you kindly today because you're young and don't know any better yet. Others from my side would tear into you very ruthlessly because we hate people like you. We hate everything you represent. But, I know you're just a hurting and lost little girl barking among two powerful sides at very serious, unseen war which has been raging for decades now. The survival of our country is at stake. There are billions and trillions of dollars men fight over among these political agendas. On the surface is law, order, activism, and the ideals of people. Behind the scenes and the closer things get to power and wealth, there is no law. There are no morals. There is no fighting over religion. It's all business. That's the best Sociology lesson I can give you.
The world is run by very highly educated, very competent, very devious people who can gobble you up without even a thought or penalty to pay. They have their agendas and you are a sheep herded on their Animal Farm for no other purpose but exploitation and slaughter. The Lenin's, Castro's, and Che's of the world often rise up against "The Man" for well-meaning purposes while never really understanding exactly how they become slaves and great servants to him. And you are already enslaved by "The Man" and don't even know it.
True freedom and a true education starts first by thinking for yourself rather than as professors, self delusions, and culture have trained you to think. If all you do is tell them what they want to hear in order to get cheesy A's, that's not an education. Education is when you can sell your points to a professor in writing, though he may disagree with them. Education is when you can break down and confuse Yoda, Faith Man, or guys like me with your typings; When you can penetrate our minds, get us seeing your points, and weakening in our own -- as some of these propagandists of the Left on the forum are better at doing. And, if you can do that as nicely as possible, that's all the better. This, however, is simply not what "The Man" wants to make of you. And it will never be possible to you or your children if all you do is sit around "touching" yourselves all day.
Man, oh man, I've heard of "touchey-feeley" Liberals, but I thank you dearly for the best laugh I've had in a long, long time!

reply from: coco

Ok doc first off I didnt read your long post tooo many things going on I glanced over it though, I am a humanist I believe that it is our DUTY as brothers and sisters to take care of our basic needs. I beleve that ALL should have the basic needs met, such as educaction, medicine and shelter. I know that in this world to surive nothing can be taken care of in a humaine loving manner, killing has ALWAYS and WILL ALWAYS be a way for people to get there ideals acknowledged ! In my world ALL will have these BASIC needs, you can worship WHATEVER YOU WANT, Say WHATEVER, do whatever as long as you dont VIOLATE others rights! See that is why I am against abortion, it violates the rights of the human being, if it did not then I would be for abortion!! I think you could do WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT TO YOURSELF BUT DONT VIOLATE OTHERS!!

reply from: yoda

Yeah. What he said!!

reply from: yoda

Yeah, I figured that would be too long for your attention span, so I extracted a couple "choice" quotes for you:
"Stop trying to "educate" us, Coco. Among the "many" classes you are taking there, if you wish to do well in life, spend more time in remedial English. Then, focus more on your English 1A an 1B classes." ...................................... ............................(cut)................................................
"If you're even going to be an enemy of this Pro-Life cause who isn't comical, you need to be able to draft correspondence for your Planned Barrenhood a-holes."
....................................(cut)................................................
"And, generally, when you are trying to argue your point with people, academic credibility isn't established by telling us you've had college courses on this or that. Posting a website link isn't how it's done. We just laugh."
There, I hope that will give you the gist of what he said..............

reply from: NewMom

THANK YOU COCO, FINALLY SOMEONE SEES IT MY WAY FROM EXPERIENCE GOING THROUGH A SIMILAR SITUATION. CERTAIN PEOPLE IN HERE SEEM TO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ITS HARDER WHEN YOU'RE YOUNGER AND PEOPLE TRY TO TELL YOU DIFFERENT THINGS. GOOD FOR YOU. I PLAN TO DO EDUCATE MY SON/DAUGHTER THE SAME WAY WHENEVER HE /SHE COMES INTO THIS WORLD -THAT SEXUALITY IS NORMAL AND OK AND NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF.
AS FOR EVERYONE ELSE'S RESPONSES... WOW. YOU GUYS ARE OLDER THAN US?! YOU HAVE HAD MANY YEARS MORE ON US OF LIVING WITH WHAT'S BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND TOUCHING IT IS BAD? I THINK THAT MOST OF WHAT YOU GUYS SAY IN HERE IS A MOCKERY. IF YOU CAN'T AGREE WITH US IN THE BASIC FACT THAN MANY OF OUR YOUTH ARE MISGUIDED AND REPRESENTED AND YOU DON'T HELP IN THE PROPER EDUCATION OF YOUTH NOT ONLY AGAINST ABORTION BUT EDUCATION IN SEXUALITY, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T CONSIDER YOURESELVES FULLY PRO-ABORT EITHER.
WOW.
First, I was never "told" or pressured into thinking I had to have sex, I made that decision all on my own and it was a conscious one. We have to get youth educated properly! But I do think, throwing yodavater's favourite term out there that its immoral to say in everyone's case sex before marriage is wrong. I'm Catholic, I go to church - but what is done is done and I'm not going to repent the rest of my life for it. My fiance and I just set our wedding date for next year AFTER the baby is born. We are all going to have the same last name. Or in Coco's situation, why is it wrong to spend 11 years with the same person?
These are the social pressures I am talking about... and what drive many young girls into thinking they should have an abortion!

reply from: NewMom

In addition, the obvious point is that sexuality is part of the world. So if we do not properly educate our young about it, how do we say that we can come together as a society and work to stop abortion?
Ask any girl from ANY background who has had an abortion why she did it.
TWO WORDS:
SOCIAL PRESSURE.
SOMEBODY GO AHEAD AND TELL ME SEXUALITY EDUCATION IS WRONG.

reply from: faithman

NO PROB!!! IT IS WRONG!!! You are SSSSSOOOOOO open minded your brains have fallen out. The pregnancy rates among teens skyrocketed after sex ed was introduced into the schools. That is just simple facts. When peer preasure was not to get pregnant before marrage, most did not. Of course when one's agenda is to cover up for one's own sexual sin, one will be for sex before marrage now won't one. The fact is that sex ed, birth control, and abortion, come from the same fountain head of planned parenthood. That is just plain historical fact.

reply from: NewMom

In all actuality faithman, you are so blind to the outside world YOUR brains have fallen out. When have I ever mentioned anything about planned parenthood? I never once said anything about the educational system being responsible for teaching our children sex ed either. I'm talking about US as PARENTS and ADULTS stepping up and saying something.
If you really think by telling your kids about the birds and the bees once is enough, I really hope you wouldn't judge your own kids if they got pregnant.
What you are preaching is just as bad as saying abortion is ok. I hear, "Let's make then feel like horrible human beings for getting pregnant! Ah! That's whats going to stop abortion!"
Also I am not a teen, I did not get pregnant in my teens. I am 21. I got pregnant in July, there for its inapplicable to me that teen pregnancy rates are skyrocketing.
I'm also sick of this "PLAIN HISTORICAL FACT" nonsense! When will u wake up and realise your views are not part of the solution?
I'm not part of the problem because I'm pregnant. I am part of the solution for standing up and saying I will not abort my child.
GET IT?
Tell me what your solution is. All I've heard so far is bla bla bla.

reply from: faithman

OH!!! so now you are the big heroe for rebeling against the teachings of the church you claim to belong too, and insted of saying you repent for sinning against God, you arogantly condemn even your own family members for sticking to what the believe. You want to come on this forum, and some how make it a pro-life stance to be pregnant out of wed lock, then try to back up and say you didn't say what you did say. Planned Parenthood is the major player behind the sex ed movement, which includes abortion. You can not seperate the 2. They are historicly the same issue reguardless of how tired you get of it. The only true responce acceptible of a pregnant out of wed lock catholic, is I have sinned against God and my Church. I puplicly repent of this mistake, and would hope that no one would follow me down the evil road I freely chose. I apologize for the shame I brought on my church and family. And I publicly ask both to forgive me of that shame. Or you can arogantly self justify doing wrong, and continue to spit in the face of your church and trample under foot the standards of your family. And take up the cause of the enemy of both.

reply from: DocQuack

The Church and we are not to blame for a woman's failures to keep her legs shut. Simple as that.
In the olden days, spreading your legs so freely was a sin. Getting pregnant out of wedlock was a shameful thing never to be made socially acceptable. When it becomes socially acceptable to have babies out of wedlock, this is far better than abortion but it is not good for families all the same. It is not good for the country. It is a shameful thing. It is to build a nation of bastard children who grow up thinking that there is nothing wrong with generating more bastard children while never marrying a girl.
Typical of the Liberal Catholic is to try and warp the Church and society to one's bankrupt moral ways. The Church is not a democracy. She is a monarchy. She stands for something rather than falling for everything every jackass under the sun wants to peddle as new religious views and morals good for mankind. Catholicism and the Christian Right, overall, stand for these things because they make sense. We're not here to tolerate and encourage every sin under the sun.
Bastard children are better than dead children, indeed. But, it is simply insane to encourage the further production of bastard children. Teaching little boys to be whack jobs; Teaching young girls to more freely spread their legs for every man in town who gives them some flowers....this CREATES MORE AND MORE BASTARD CHILDREN to be gobbled up by the abortion industry. We simply do not support the "education" in fornication Liberals wish to push. That doesn't mean we're sinless. It just means WE DO NOT WANT MORE BASTARD CHILDREN CREATED IN THE WORLD BY IMMATURE AND UNMARRIED TWITS. Simple as that. Same reasons we don't want to encourage more whore houses and drug cartels in the world. They exist. They tempt us to sin, certainly. But, you don't want society saturated in these things if you have any little bit of sanity and patriotism in you.
In the olden days, a bastard was called a bastard and a whore was called a whore. That's the problem with this country. Everyone's afraid to call it exactly like it is. You are heretic Catholics and heathens promoting rampant sex, fornication, whack job bastard children, and hanging around oddly very sticky on a Pro-Life Conservative forum when nobody "respects" your points. You are propagandizing to the masses through this venue and that's the only reason many are here while not giving it up.
Here, since you're all so sexually liberated, Rasta Man has a nice doub you can smoke!

reply from: DocQuack

Condom Nibblers!!! That's the new name I have for you out there. Nothing but Condom Nibblers!!!

reply from: yoda

Did your cap key get stuck?

reply from: yoda

Actually, we already have a nice list of why she "did it", courtesy of Johnson Archives:
--rape 0.25 % (0.1-1 %) --incest 0.03 % (<0.1 %) --physical life of mother 0.2 % (0.1-0.3 %) --physical health of mother 1.0 % (0.1-3 %) --fetal health 0.4 % (0.1-1.0 %)-- mental --health of mother depends on criterion (0.1-17 %) "personal choice" 98% (78-99 %)
--too young/immature/not ready for responsibility(32 %) --economic(21-28 %) --to avoid adjusting life(16 %) --mother single or in poor relationship(12-13 %) --enough children already (4-8 %) http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

reply from: yoda

That's very nice. Will you also stand up and say other women should not abort their child as well? And that abortion should be against the law?
How about it?

reply from: NewMom

Have I not said no woman should ever abort her child? I will never abort mine.
Rude, and arrogant about your faith, faithman is what you come out as. I still go to church, nor is it any of your business to judge me based on why I do/have done what I did. The point is I am anti-abortion, and that's what is supposed to bring us together in this forum.
I do not encourage the future production of "bastard" children but a child alive is better than a child dead, do you disagree with that? Can you not think for yourself and agree on that, faithman? Or would you rather hang me out to dry for producing a bastard child? That, is quite arrogant indeed.
I do not apologize to nobody except those I love for the so called "shame" I've put on them either. As for whether or not I truly feel shameful? I don't. I'm going to have a healthy child with a man I love whom I'm marrying next year. Is it so terrible? Should I just not even bother to honour our relationship at all? How awful for you to judge me so harshly.
As for spitting in anyone's face? I only spit in yours for not realising that pro-life means to me no, I will not abort my child.
I'll make sure to post a nice pic when my little bastard comes.
And tomorrow night when I go to church I'll remember to pray for you all to learn some tolerance and acceptance instead of pointing fingers.

reply from: NewMom

In addition, you can all try to make me feel shameful, but its this shameful feeling that gives me strength to stand up and say no matter how bad people make me feel about this pregnancy, no. I will not abort my child.

reply from: yoda

I honestly don't recall. Do you favor the re-criminalization of abortion, or not?

reply from: whydeath

New mom I am not trying to make you feel shameful I just want to know where you stand on the whole abortion issue. I am not into assuming things nor playing the guessing game with posters so it is best hearing it straight from the horses mouth.

reply from: faithman

It is not the child that is shameful, it is your desicration of the sacriment of marrage. Or do catholics no longer consider marrage a sacriment, and sex out side of marrage a grieveous sin? Reguardles of whether you feel it or not, your actions as a catholic are shameful. And if you don't want to be "jugded" then don't post your dirty draws on this forum for folk to look at then exspect them to remain silent about your hipocracy.

reply from: NewMom

No one ever made this forum all about christianity either faithman, and that is what you have to remember. There are plenty of people in here that are anti-abortion who don't believe in god but believe it is morally wrong.

reply from: yoda

NewMom, I've asked you this question several times, but have yet to get an answer.
Do you favor making elective abortion illegal, or not?

reply from: faithman

...and I have very little prob with them until they bash my faith. You, on the other hand, did make it about your faith. You opened up your big apostate mouth, and bashed your churches beliefs, and your parent's standards, and exspect us to remain silent about it. You want to justify your fornication, and the defiling of the sacrement of marriage, and exspect us to remain silent about it. You have the right to promote being a slut, and I have the right to call you on it.

reply from: NewMom

Hi yodavater. Thanks for sticking to the true point. And no, I do not favour making elective abortion legal - it should be as illegal to the full extent of the law as lawmakers can make it. Here in Canada we have advocacy groups (one I belong to) which believe the same thing. That's why I'm here. Not to have my faith, my unborn child and my future husband and family bashed. I meant to answer that question earlier, but a certain someone ragging on me about my terrible sins of being an unwed expecting mother has sidetracked me. I am starting to question his faith in his stance about being pro-life, as all I've heard are reasons he feels I am not worthy of acceptance and should be punished. How is that fair? We are here to judge people who are not pro-life, correct?
A baby born out of wedlock is still a baby alive and not dead, no?

reply from: yoda

Thanks for the straight answer. Then officially, as long as you advocate that, you are prolife.... period. Whatever other differences you may have with other prolifers does not make you any less prolife.
Good to hear about your advocacy group, what's it called? I agree this forum is not for the purpose of "bashing" people or their families, but unfortunately that seems to happen quite often. Perhaps the best way to avoid that in the future is not to give out too many details of your personal life? I know that you probably thought it would help people to get to know you, and know "where you are coming from", but unfortunately it too often leads to distracting arguments over religious and moral issues that are not directly related to abortion. That's why I say very, very little about my personal life on public forums.
If I got my wishes, we wouldn't discuss our opinions about other people's personality period..... at least not unless it related directly to their manner of posting on the forum. Even then, we could limit it to their actions, and not their personality. A baby born out of wedlock is just a baby, period. Babies aren't to blame for their circumstances, or their location.... when they are in the womb.

reply from: faithman

As marajuana is said to be a gateway drug, fornication, and birth control is the gate way to abortion. If one were to study the history of the abortion movement, they would find margret sanger at the epi center advocating the very same sinful life styles flaunted here by apostates as acceptible, and defiantly flaunted as something to be tolerated. this cavalier atitude has brought the social desaster of free sex, and abortion on demand. Geting caught up in sin [as we all do] is one thing. Flaunting it, and demanding "tolerance" and acceptance of it is quite another. It is quite harmful to young people to see some one in sin being tolerated, and not demanded to stop it, and publicly repent of it. If one does not wish these subjects to come up on this forum, one should not flaunt them on this forum as acceptible. We are to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but as christians we are to reprove them. If someone claims to be christian, and is in blatant open sin, we are to rebuke them, not tolerate their sin. If you don't want these issue to come up, then don't trigger them by flaunting sin as something that is tolerable, and exspect those you do hold as truth, the teachings of Christ, to remain silent. I have a responsibilty to proclaim truth, not tolerate the blatant defiance of those who wish to push the socialist agenda of the acceptance of sinful life styles.

reply from: NewMom

Oh faithman... do shut up. Or go to church or something if it makes you feel better. Your comments are unwanted here. I came here to discuss abortion not my faith, you made it into a faith-based issue. I never bashed you or the church. Only explained my background. My so called sin I flaunt is acceptable in this forum, as I refuse to abort my child based on pressures and social stigma that are unbelievably just like your repeated comments. You do nothing but strengthen my argument with them that these are the reasons education of abstinence from adults and parents to youth is important so young girls do not feel the shame and pressure, pressure to even abort although its wrong. You attempt poorly to make me feel shameful and your self-rightous words mean nothing to me as I can merely delete them from the screen.
Ooh, to clarify further, Planned Parenthood (although I have not ever mentioned it) was never my basis for the argument. We all agree it is inneffective and does nothing but aid in more youth having sex, bla bla. The education I speak of is in our homes with our own children that we love and care about, and the only way to get that message home is to teach abstinence, not how to use a condom.
Thanks for the advice yodavater. I will note it for future reference when faced with future faithmans. It is not the first piece of advice I have received to ignore him either.
To answer your other question yodavater, the advocacy group is Niagara's Right to Life Assosciation, based out of the Niagara Region in Ontario, Canada.

reply from: faithman

Oh, so not only are you twisting my words, but now advocate me to be censored. You have the right to flaunt your sexual sin, but I do not have the right to call you on it? Your so called sin? You do not believe sex before marriage is sin? 2000 years of christian tradition is wrong? And you are the poster child for abstinance when you arogantly flaunt fornication as something we should just ignore for the sake of tolerance? You want to shoot your mouth off about living in sin, and bash your church and family because they stand against your shameful actions? You are the hater. You hate God's word, and trample it under your feet. You hate your church and family and mock their faith. You hate the truth and do your best to slander those who proclaim it. It is time you use your mirror for more than aplying make up on your way to fornicate. It is time you take a good hard look at the apostate sinner stareing back at you.

reply from: NewMom

(This is a copied response to faithman from another topic "Is it getting worse, or does it just seem that way?" started by yodavater)
I'm pretty sure this is what yodavater means when he asked the question, "Is it getting worse, or does it just seem that way?" That was the origional point of this topic. Your rants faithman are clearly a waste of everyone's time to read. I'm new to this forum still, but I do think its quite uneccesary to keep going on and on about my sins when it doesn't change the fact that we are all pro-life. Mine for a very different reason than yours. So stop *$#&@(#&#!!!! judging me for it!
Some of us faithman, seem to go about it in a different way whether we are influenced mainly by our faith or by our own moral beliefs.
Just drop it.
PS: I am no poster child for abstinence, but you are clearly no poster child for the church either.
Let's talk about abortion.

reply from: faithman

Is fornication sin? and isn't the sin of fornication the very motivation for most abortion?

reply from: NewMom

Apparently you didn't hear me.
I said,
LET'S TALK ABOUT ABORTION.
Anyone else wish to comment on abortion related to societal pressure? (Without continuing to point out my sins?!) That was the origional point of this topic I created.

reply from: faithman

Is fornication sin? and isn't the sin of fornication the very motivation for most abortion?

reply from: 4given

By Valerie Huber
Parents and policymakers must clearly understand the vast differences between abstinence and so-called comprehensive programs. Both have been repeatedly misrepresented in the media.
Abstinence programs offer a holistic approach, teaching teens how to build healthy relationships, increase self-worth and set appropriate boundaries in order to achieve future goals. Abstinence education shares the realities of sexually transmitted diseases and the best way to prevent them. Accurate information about contraception is provided, but always within the context of abstinence as the healthiest choice. The realistic limitations of condoms are shared but without the explicit demonstration and advocacy that characterizes "comprehensive" programs.
According to published research, abstinence programs are successful in delaying sexual onset and in helping sexually active teens choose to abstain. In Georgia, for example, teen pregnancy rates have been cut in half, dropping for 11 straight years since the state mandated abstinence education.
Abstinence opponents cite the narrow Mathmatica report as evidence against abstinence education. But a principal researcher of the study states results shouldn't be used to draw sweeping conclusions, in part because the study evaluated only four of 700 abstinence programs. The relatively new programs targeted young adolescents and provided no follow-up. The real "take away" from this research is targeting youth at only young ages is not enough, and as is true of any health message, abstinence must be reinforced throughout the teen years.
Studies show "comprehensive" programs do little more than promote contraceptive use, spending less than 5% of their course time promoting abstinence. A recent Health and Human Services study found that "comprehensive" programs exaggerate the effectiveness of condoms and encourage a false sense of protection. Further, the study noted that one popular program promoted graphic sexual behavior such as showering together as an acceptable "abstinent" activity.
Not surprisingly, a recent Zogby survey shows that when parents understand what abstinence vs. "comprehensive" sex education actually teaches, they prefer abstinence education by a 2-1 margin. The health and future of our teens depend on a common sense approach that works.
This was sent to me in Aug. I believe. I wasn't sure where the appropriate thread was to post this. Anyway, I would love to see more resources being put towards these type of programs, as I will not have PP educating my children about anything!

reply from: NewMom

What you fail to mention is sins can be forgiven. But there are other social factors which exist that lead to abortion; those which are not related to sinning.
1) Improper sexual education (by adults; including PP) is a factor.
2) Having the CHOICE by law to have an abortion (even as a medical need) is a factor.
3) Misunderstanding about abortion itself (like the website I found and posted in this topic - claims that stuff like that is a natural solution - that is a factor.
It doesn't 199% have to do with sinning. So if you wish to post on anything I add/comment on, please refrain from pointing out my sins. I wouldn't point out yours.

reply from: faithman

Is fornication sin? and isn't the sin of fornication the very motivation for most abortion?

reply from: 4given

Yes. Do I agree with you debating NewMom about it so tenaciously? No. She has said she repented of it. It is between her and God. Fornication does lead to abortion. The wages of sin are death. (I realize this isn't in the proper context, but it does apply to abortion and fornication.)

reply from: faithman

What you fail to mention is sins can be forgiven. But there are other social factors which exist that lead to abortion; those which are not related to sinning.
1) Improper sexual education (by adults; including PP) is a factor.
2) Having the CHOICE by law to have an abortion (even as a medical need) is a factor.
3) Misunderstanding about abortion itself (like the website I found and posted in this topic - claims that stuff like that is a natural solution - that is a factor.
It doesn't 199% have to do with sinning. So if you wish to post on anything I add/comment on, please refrain from pointing out my sins. I wouldn't point out yours.
Sin is forgiven when repented of and renounced, not indulged in and demanded to be tolerated. You pointed out your own sin by posting on this forum. I didn't post mine then try to justify them by defiantly demanding others tolerance of them. So you don't agree that fornication is sin which leads to the sin of abortion? Or do you not believe in sin? In which case, what would then be wrong with abortion? Is abortion sin? And isn't the fornication life style you say we must tolerate simply because you are engaged in it by your own admission, the very gate way of most abortion? Where do fornicators spend eternaty if they die in their sin. I would think they share lease space with those who try to cover that sin with abortion.

reply from: NewMom

Don't you get it?
I did repent, my church and my family forgave me. I do not need your forgiveness. You not forgiving me has no effect on my personal life. But it does continue to fuel my anger with people like you who continue to blast me with my sins after I have already been forgiven to promote your self-righteous self. And like stated before, it continues to reinforce my origional statement that there is a problem with society in the fact that people like you continue to rant "sins, sins sins!" But it does not solve the problem of abortion, if anything it makes it worse and makes girls and women in some cases choose to cover their sin with another sin - one much worse.
I will ask you again to stop pointing your finger. Please re-read my first post to this topic to regain yourself with the familiarity of the origional topic please.

reply from: faithman

Yes. Do I agree with you debating NewMom about it so tenaciously? No. She has said she repented of it. It is between her and God. Fornication does lead to abortion. The wages of sin are death. (I realize this isn't in the proper context, but it does apply to abortion and fornication.)
Only one prob here. She has admitted to be still living in sin. She wants us to tolerate a sinful life style. Repentance means you are sorry, and you stop doing it. That is not the case here. Shall we contue in sin that grace may abound? God forBid!!!!!!!!!!!! I must remain sted fast for the sake of others, unles they think her example is to be emulated, and womb children be put at risk because they are an incoveniant result of fornication to be thrown away at an abortion clinic. Fornication and abortion are cut from the same sinful clothe. They are part of the modern culture that destroys souls, and she would have us silenced so she don't have to feel bad about living in sin.

reply from: NewMom

I will ask you again to stop pointing your finger. Please re-read my first post to this topic to regain yourself with the familiarity of the origional topic please.

reply from: faithman

If they did not indulge in fornication in the first place, there wouldn't be any need for abortion now would there? aren't you still shacking? How can that be true repentance when you are still engaged in a sinful life style?

reply from: whydeath

She has committed sin but her sin has created a beautiful life. If has not sinned then her precious baby would never have been conceived. Who knows her child maybe the next president.
I just don't understand what is going on here. More then half of the woman we see going into the clinics are pregnant d/t sin. We do not condemn them for committing the sin do we? Our concern is the baby. We give these woman who have sinned items for their babies, medical assistance exc. So why is it in this situation a girl has sinned yet we are concentrating on her sin rather then the fact that she is choosing life for her unborn?
I do not feel NM is flaunting her sin just giving us the whole picture.
NM you said your family advised you to abort? I thought you came from a Catholic family. Now I am not in tune with Catholics but why would they say it 'ok' to abort?

reply from: faithman

How can anybody not see that the main motivation for abortion is sex outside of marriage? Two wrongs do not make a right. Biut niether should we ignore the first wrong that got the ball rolling in the first place. Fornication is one of the first major steps to abortion. Unmarried and pregnant fills abortion clinics all accross this land. So I should just ignore those who come to this forum, flaunt thier sinful life styles as something we should tolerate, when it is a fact that such life style choices lead to most abortions? Then I am told repentance has occurred when they are still living in a sinful life style? Jesus told the women caught in sexual sin to go and sin no more, not go and do it some more. The warning being lest a worse thing come upon you. there is no doubt that fornication leads to most abortion. If fornication leads to most abortion, shouldn't we do everything to stop that action to prevent abortion? Or should we give those a free walk who are still engaged in fornication in the name of tolerance?

reply from: NewMom

Ah. A breath of fresh air. Than you for your comment, it was much needed! Ironically, I have been forgiven for my sins, faithman has no air left and is repeating himself over and over. My intent was to show that younger people who come from a more difficult situation can still overcome pro-aborters and say no I will not abort my child. Ironically too, my own father advised me abortion was an option - it shocked me too. I guess its a nasty realization that there are people calling themselves catholics out there but are proabort. But that is not my belief I share with them. I will always choose life. What faithman fails to see is I will have a beautiful family, and I am getting married still next spring.

reply from: whydeath

Yes FM you are right fornication does lead to abortion but in this case it did not.
No we should not ignore it but we should also not dwell on someone who has sinned and decided to keep their child.
NM are you guys living together? Forgive me I have not read all your posts.

reply from: NewMom

Nope - we are not living together. Ironically faithmans accusations of us "shacking up" are incredibly irrelevant. We both are living at home, we are 21 and 23 and we are beginning to buy things for a house we just put a down payment on. We are engaged and are getting married next spring. Oh shame, yes faithman, its after the baby comes. But its parents will still be married, and I am not killing my unborn child. To me, doing the right thing is keeping this child and making a family.
I will repeat something I said in another topic relevant to the same argument:
No matter what way we look at it abortion still exists. It happens to people unwed, people who are married... people who claim to be Catholics, Christians, etc. But there are still people who agree it is ok to kill an unborn child.
Faithman open your eyes.
I am not one of those people.

reply from: whydeath

You have sinned per your Church and all you can do is repent and do right. You can also teach other girls (within your belief) that fornication often leads to dead babies and the importance of staying true to their faith and waiting until marriage.
Just be careful in the future about telling too much about your personal life. I would let others ask you info rather then just give it out.
(ha! who am I to talk?)

reply from: NewMom

Agreed. Yet sadly, a difference it did not make. That's why I have said in other posts its important to promote abstinence education and people turned that into me arguing for PP lol! I can't say I can look back and wish I did it different, because I wouldn't be who I am today.
I wonder if he's secretly pro-abort
Are you pro-abort, faithman?
What do you advocate?

reply from: whydeath

No I don't think so he does some very good things like with the "I am a person" poster.
CP said he uses another name "gotfetus" (AKA a pro-abort.) I don't know if this is true really it does not matter I am not here for the games, likewise most of the others are not either.

reply from: NewMom

I'm not here for games either. That's why I continue to make my point that it doesnt matter how old you are or what situation you are in, abortion is wrong.

reply from: faithman

So is sex before marriage that causes most abortion.

reply from: NewMom

I don't deny that. But when you've already been forgiven, you've been forgiven.
But who can forgive abortion?

reply from: Carifairy

I work in an abortion clinic, which many people on here know.
We see many married women, I would say it is 50/50, as many of the women we see already have very young children and are not ready for more.
Married women have abortions too.. I am married, and have had an abortion.

reply from: yoda

Yes, they do. And they kill their husbands sometimes, too. And their born children. And their brothers and sisters. And their parents.
You name it, and married women sometimes kill them.

reply from: faithman

Like with all sin, only the Lord Jesus Christ. The unpardonable is rejecting Christ as Lord.

reply from: NewMom

Fboy, I only advocate you open your eyes, for you are blinded by self-righteousness.
Women like myself, are still doing the right thing by not aborting my child, and we still exist in the world. That's what makes me prolife, and that's all that matters in here.

reply from: NewMom

Yes, they do. And they kill their husbands sometimes, too. And their born children. And their brothers and sisters. And their parents.
You name it, and married women sometimes kill them.
Sometimes the cat or the dog too.

reply from: DocQuack

Hang in there FaithMAN.
The problem with our fuss over New Mom has not been the issue of her baby, choices, or living in sin. I don't give a damn about that and I'm sure you don't, either. I'll take saved babies any way you can get them. It's her previous attempt to somehow justify that as model Christianity and a model Pro-Lifer.
The way I read her argument was just like these closet pro-aborts lurking the forum do:
"I am a Pro-Life. I am against abortion. Here is a personal example. Some lies we just make up as paid Planned Parenthood operatives And here is the twisted theme I wish to inject into the forum in order to screw with your minds, throw Pro-Lifers off-track, and water them all down into goo goo Christians and goo goo Conservatives. Water them down and we own them. Let's get our ideas up top on the forum. Let's infect the minds of Pro-Lifers with any form of division and confusion. Align with them. Befriend them., Appear to be one of them, but then use that position of trust to inject our propaganda agenda."
If this New Mom is for real, yes, we have probably been a little too mean to her. If she's fake like the rest of them coming here, to hell with her.
All I see is that you and I are offended by New Mom's attempt to push her morality upon us while it has taken some bickering to get her to profess being anti-abortion. Is this true? Is it PP operative lie? Come in as anti-abortion while trying to push a sex-ed agenda? Yet, now she pushes abstinence?
We've been hammering away at New Mom, and she could be for real? Either that or she's one of their best propaganda attempts in a long time, huh?
The problem I have with all of her chatter -- and I think it's the same you have -- goes back to this kind of a goo goo Christianity / goo goo Conservative / goo goo Pro-Lifer thing. Once you draw energy away from the anti-abortion prong of attack by focus upon something like abstinence and "appropriate sex ed" (assuming New Mom is even fit to design such a curriculum for youth)....there's a danger in losing aggression to the pro-abortion fight while getting trapped in the quagmire mire PP operatives try to set up for us. I think that's what you and I fear to what this New Mom pushes. Fear leads to anger always.
I haven't studied all her posts and can only go by this thread, but there really isn't anything I found objectionable to New Mom until she basically started trying to normalize fornication and "alternative lifestyles" as a virtue of ever-tolerance we should all keep. She was doing that, attacking her family and the Catholic Church with it, and it needed to be swatted down. I don't care if she still lives in sin. That's irrelevant. It's when you push living in sin and out-of-wedlock babies as normal, acceptable, and virtue for us all that I have problem with it. That issue has nothing to do with her supposed position against abortion. Has nothing to do with any of her views. Has nothing to do with keeping her baby.
If I may make an analogy, it's like having said: "Hey Pope Benedict. I am Pro-Life. I am against abortion. I am among your cause now. I want my ideas and morals to infect your sheep and spread. Your Pro-Lifers should listen to and become like me. I say the stuff you teach is all full of it. You're just a stupid old man and I know best. I'm a better Catholic than you, Mr. Pope. I'm a better Pro-Lifer than you, Mr. Pope. My thoughts and my morals should be the new morals of all the Pro-Life movement. Maybe, if all the Pro-Lifers were more like me and listened to me, we'd actually save more babies."
...That's what she said in a nutshell. That's why we don't like you, New Mom. You see, yes, there is room in the Pro-Life movement for everyone. Murdered babies is a secular issue. But, if one is truly Pro-Life and understanding of this movement, you don't go trying to tear down the Christian Right which is the very core and strength of the Pro-Life movement in this country. Without the militant Catholics and Protestants, there wouldn't be an anti-abortion movement. Conservative Jews are also a very strong element. Because it is a secular-political issue, Pro-Life is not just about abortion. It's also about the moral decay of our society and how that downfall only fuels further human rights abuses. New Mom claims to be against abortion and against fornication, yet, in action and glorification of her lifestyle and choices, argued for it. She sends contradictory messages which work to erode the very core of Pro-Life philosophies, politics, and foundations. If not a paid PP operative, you really coudn't make a better one. My hat's off to New Mom on this one.
I guess herein lies the true test of New Mom:
New Mom, words are cheaply typed upon a computer. Actions speak louder than words. If you are truly Pro-Life, then surely you will become more involved in over the years in conspiring to save babies. Surely, you will work to spread abstinence education and also things like the I AM a Person campaign? Surely, you will picket at abortion clinics or work to turn women to Abortion Alternatives and not just try to distract us with "education" agendas, right?
We here are tired of talking with you guys. We intend to save babies all the more. Hundreds of babies. Thousands of babies nationwide. Tens of thousands. Millions if we can. And our work you will feel out there eventually. If you are truly anti-abortion, you will work with us to save babies. You will put your hurt feelings aside and join on with the offensive. We will put our detest for your earlier chatter and philosophies aside because, when it comes down to it, we only judge you most based upon your actions taken to save babies. You show us babies saved now or down the road -- beyond just this one you claim -- and I promise you both Faith Man and I would even bow down humbly enough to render you a full apology. You prove to use that you've saved babies and we'll apologize absolutely. We won't change our views in the least, but we'll apologize for hurting your feeling and suspecting you to be an agent of PP. Same goes for any of the other talkers in here.
There is only one way to keep peace among a cause of greatly divided philosophies and religions. And that is to do exactly like New Mom says. Yes, Faith Man, let's just drop it and focus on the issue of abortion as she asked. :-) Let's all just compete to save as many babies as we can from the abortion clinics. Not idle talk on "education" and "sex ed", but field work against the clinics. Field work and any other work against abortion. Instead of bickering and tearing down each other, let us compete to display and tally our babies saved. How is that for a reasonable compromise?
People who are truly anti-abortion are not about talk at all. We're about saved babies. That's where all differences fade to nothing. Faith Man I know has saved babies. Yoda has saved babies. I have saved human life, but never babies yet, and I want to save many. I don't give a damn about anyone's talk in here. I want to see babies saved. I to hear reports from the field that Pro-Life events are working. I like hearing little blurbs that a women caught sight of the I AM a Person poster and walked away.
There's also the Live Fetal Extraction stuff. It's been good to hear Pro-Choicers seeing that as a reasonable future compromise, too. It's all about saving babies in the end. Keeping future American citizens alive. Restoring the country to a good one again which looks after the most helpless and innocent of her citizens.
We'll take bastard babies in that fight, absolutely. We'll take mommies who can't keep their legs shut without a single gripe. You'll never be normalized anyhow, so it's no big deal. We don't care as long as you're truly saving babies. But, when you come here onto a forum spreading chatter and trying to break down the cause with ideas which sink in, penetrate, and subvert.....that makes us pissy. You assault our religion with arrogant superiority and self-styled intellect, and we attack back with arrogant superiority and the very same viscous insults. You would us. We would you. It only goes in a big round robbin.
I agree with New Mom, Faith Man. Let's put it behind us all. If New Mom's for real, let's have her earn her place as a Pro-Lifer somehow. New Mom, surely, you will participate in saving babies, won't you?
You know how you can pass this test? It's very simple. Very very simple. Gather for us 1000 email addresses to contribute to our I Am a Person email list. We find from field reports that, when women are struck with an image of the womb-child, most will refrain from abortion. We need not "educate" any more fancy than that. A picture says a thousand words. It sinks in. It destroys will to abort. And we are always spreading the word in that regard. If you would pledge 1000 email addresses or more to the I AM a Person cause, I myself will humbly apologize to you for hurting your feelings and retract my mean words. I know Faith Man would do the same. It's not letting up on our views, but we'll consider you a real Pro-Lifer then and at least retract our hostility. Your thousands will be added to many other thousands. Take action with us. Words are cheap.
True Pro-Lifers understand this I AM a Person agenda, participate in, and back it. Faith Man is simply a grumpy ol horse who has been slugging it out in the trenches and saving babies. Same with Yoda. In the end, we don't give a damn about your talk or personal beliefs and morals so long as you're not trying to weaken the cause with them. If you work to save babies and are not here to weaken the cause, we like you. If you're about more action and less talk, we're all on the same side.
True Pro-Lifers put aside all differences and grudges when it comes to saving babies right now and in the field.

reply from: NewMom

DocQuack:
New Mom, words are cheaply typed upon a computer. Actions speak louder than words. If you are truly Pro-Life, then surely you will become more involved in over the years in conspiring to save babies. Surely, you will work to spread abstinence education and also things like the I AM a Person campaign? Surely, you will picket at abortion clinics or work to turn women to Abortion Alternatives and not just try to distract us with "education" agendas, right?
_________________________________________________________________
Your post was too time consuming to quote. I isuprisingly do agree with some of what faithman says: if you don't put yourself in the position to get pregnant, and choose abstinence, would pregnancy happen? No. I do not believe in PP, I have stated numerous times we have to encourage abstinence not safe sex. Regarding whether or not I am truly pro-abort, I invite you to read other topics I have commented in, particularily the one I posted a website in and talked about how I am involved in my community talking to younger girls. My job and preparing for my child limit my time these days to be involved in much of anything more, but I do take time.
Further clarification - I used my own personal experience to show that girls/women from any background get pregnant - but our message should be not that they should feel shameful, but let's help them make the right choice and choose life.

reply from: NewMom

... the post is called "Anti-Abortion Group in Ontario, Canada
Everyone who has doubts about me, check it out

reply from: 4given

This is not about you, it is about the saving of precious human lives and the future generations from the atrocity of abortion.

reply from: NewMom

Agreed, but you missed the part then where people questioned whether or not I was pro-life, and you failed to read in the topic then when I commented about what I am involved with, with the group.

reply from: 4given

No. I read. Perhaps not completely. My point is this- the topics have been more and more about you- and I checked out the link to the organization you belong to. So I followed the majority of your postings and ramblings, as I am delighted others tolerate mine as well! It is about the number of similar postings (I know it isn't entirely you). Point is- point taken. Abortion/pro-life forum.. Right?
btw I don't wish to discourage you- all w/ an opinion on the matter needs to share!

reply from: NewMom

My comments were only repeated over and over, as I was being criticized over and over about annoying accusations about my sins and my soul, and my message got lost in between all of those. I can't say my personal situation doesn't come into play in here. That's why I posted it. Since I've become pregnant its actually given me more fire to dig in deeper and reach out and actually speak to groups about making the right choice; I've only begun speaking to groups recently in the last month. And that's what's important We all come from different backgrounds, but our need to discuss abortion is what brings us here. I know I stand out, and I meant to.

reply from: 4given

I am pleased that you can/ will educate others. You don't stand out - I don't think- many people face what you do. Like you stated, reach out and actually speak to groups about making the right choice; I've only begun speaking to groups recently in the last month. And that's what's important
Saving the future from the evil of abortion is what matters- however, whenever.. etc. BOTTOM LINE!

reply from: DocQuack

New Mom,
We shall soon have for everyone here an on-line, baby-saving objective which everyone can participate in without even leaving their homes! All this time you and we waste on the forum we are designing for YOU and others to apply toward saving babies.
In fact, we're gonna score you posters here from now on with Ebay-like Pro-Life credibility ratings in terms of authenticated babies saved! They'll be like little merit badges you can wear. And, if you're for real, that'll restore your pride. It'll make all your accidental pregnancy and familial shames and sin status just totally washed over. Nothing to be ashamed about at all. You can invoke your personal story and people will know you based upon your Boy Scout merit badges of saved baby numbers hanging on your chest and on-line profile.
This is a great Pro-Life forum here, but it is being invaded by pro-abort operatives of very professional nature at times. There are some real folks. Some bogus folks. It's often hard to tell the difference. We hammer away at them. We insult them and try to stir up rage, but the bogus ones always change their stories and propaganda lines as they see fit. They bear little emotional attachment to their created on-line identities. I attack your child as a "bastard" and poke at you as a "whore", but zero response at all. Instead you continued to attack at Faith Man. Just carrying on the propaganda offensive all too professionally.
Had I said something like that to Coco, she'd be in here fuming mad with her Latina temper and swearing away at me in poor grammar! You? Oh, girly, you're cold as ice. Very professional, indeed. A little too professional and bearing many other signatures of another of these bogus, on-line posters trying to trash the forum and get their message out.
As I said, you will have my personal apology for any insults rendered while needling you and even Faith Man I am certain will apologize.....once you're wearing baby-saving merit badges. These are like wartime confirmed kills scored. Like the way fighter pilots and aces keep track of downed aircraft. The more saved babies you tally up under whatever armies you choose to lead -- the more those cases are AUTHENTICATED -- the more you have a credible voice here on the forum as a Pro-Lifer. We need to clean this forum up -- and all other Pro-Life forums out there on the web -- into a kind of EBay user credibility rating versus all the Craigs List sort of scammers out there.
We will give you something that you can do from home. We will give you something to participate in for which there is no excuse for any Pro-Lifer not to support. If you waste your time posting here rather than saving babies with us, people can simply judge you by your actions and baby-saving badges rather than easily crafted words.
When you have just a few authenticated saved babies tallied up under the program, you will have my own personal apologies because, in real-life, I would never say such nasty things to a real person. I would never attack a true, single mommy who kept her baby like that. I attacked you because your agenda was trying to tear down my Church and only results in more tolerance of fornication, accidental babies, and higher abortion rates. We cannot allow that. Attacked you also to probe you as real or fake. Real people have emotions when attacked, not propaganda agendas. You are very probably just one of the same ol' enemies of Faith Man having created a quickly constructed on-line identity here. You can say anything you want. You can make up lies. You can change your story left and right. You can mess with our minds daily and forever like this.
At some point it must end. It is time to authenticate the Pro-Life credibility of those here who claim to be Pro-Life. People like Carriefairy come in here honestly. You don't see me attacking her, do you? Got no beef with her at all. She can rage against the Catholic Church, curse Pro-Life, and say whatever she wants. Doesn't tick us off at all. It's when you come in and profess to be aligned with us while working to destroy the cause from within that we get nasty. All the more ruthless as a direct function of that infiltration and treason.
You want to stand out? You want to be a hero to children? You want to erase and well repent for your sins so that nobody remembers them or even cares? Again, it all goes back to ACTION, not cheap words on a forum. The more you display credentials of having turned women away from the abortion clinics and saved babies, the more we paint "ace" scores on your aircraft nose. Then, we can all more respectfully exchange thoughts on-line while shoeing away the a-holes and not being so harsh with the more innocent.
Standby. It's coming.

reply from: yoda

If I may, I'd like to offer a personal observation here.
I've found that defending one's self on a forum like this is very time and energy consuming. So much so, in fact, that one is limited to one of two possible activities done well here. You can either defend yourself, or defend the babies. If you try to do both, you won't do a very good job of either of them. You certainly won't do your best at either.
My decision has been to either ignore personal attacks or put the person making them on ignore. And that leaves me with a lot more time to actually defend babies. Think about it.


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