Home - List All Discussions

ABORTION IS MURDER

by: Motherof3

Abortion is murder.
I believe that a fetuses is a baby. If you don't want a baby don't have SEX.

reply from: 4given

Mother- I also believe that a fetus is a baby and abortion is indeed murder!

reply from: fetalisa

Yet, we have women having abortions all day long and not a one goes to jail for it. So much for your fantasy that abortion is murder.
You probably believe the earth is flat too.
None in our society are obligated to live under your hair-brained ideas. We can screw as much as we like, whenever we like, regardless of what you think about it. And if we end up pregnant, it's easily gotten rid of.
For us to have such freedoms pisses you off to no end, I am sure.

reply from: cassabreu

Agree here as well. There is a lot of talk around here by pro-killers that a woman doesn't give consent to a baby to use her uterus so it has no rights to it. Seems to me that having sex IS consenting. That is, afterall, what sex was designed for. Sure there are other benifits. But ultimately, it is for reproduction. If you don't want a baby either use protection or abstain. Don't kill it.

reply from: gotfetus

If abortion is murder, then shouldn't you pro-lifers do everthing within your power to stop it? A house divided can not stand. That is why you PLers will never win. You say its murder but you really don't act like it.

reply from: AshMarie88

White people could own and kill black people all day long over 100 years ago and they wouldn't go to jail for it. I guess owning them and killing them was okay and not murder, because the law said so.

reply from: fetalisa

An unborn has no rights to the body of another without consent. You don't either, nor do I.
Then why does birth control exist?
RIIIIIIGHT! Let me get this straight, if one has oral sex or anal sex, they have consented to pregnancy. Your little hypothesis doesn't make much sense.
And if someone has sex for those 'other' benefits, we have no reason to assume AT ALL they have consented to reproduce.
Or abort. It's your choice.
Why not? It's certainly not a person. It doesn't even have a level of sentience that a fly has.

reply from: AshMarie88

When a woman is pregnant she already HAS a baby. She can't automatically undo that process when she aborts. Sure, she won't have a child, but she'll always be a mother and it won't change the fact she helped create a unique person with her and her partner's DNA.

reply from: fetalisa

Well if you are stupid enough to believe that.....

reply from: AshMarie88

Well if you are stupid enough to believe that.....
I'm not stupid hun, that was a fact when slavery was little. Read up on your History a little more.

reply from: gotfetus

Well if you are stupid enough to believe that.....
I apreciate your zeal, but you must really like toe jam the way you frequently slide your foot in your mouth up to the knee. We really don't need to recreate history to be pro-choice. Logic, and an open minded look at reality is enough.

reply from: Motherof3

Your ignorant.
It pisses me off when people say ignorant things.Abortion is murder REGARDLESS of what you think.

reply from: Motherof3

This website is prolifeamerica.com not pro-MURDER.com

reply from: gotfetus

You need to use the quote button when you reply to a post so we know who you are talking to. Who did you direct your post to?

reply from: Motherof3

That was to fetalisa and gotfetus

reply from: fetalisa

None here would call you stupid to assume my response was questioning the well documented history of slavery. If they knew you were 18, they would chalk it up to an incorrect assumption on your part, based on your age.
However, many would think you stupid for claiming it was OK to own and kill slaves.

reply from: fetalisa

Yet, none in our society are obligated to live under your deluded fantasy (which probably results from your young age) that abortion is murder. Anyone can have an abortion today and not go to jail. So, it's very obviously not murder, outside of the fantasies of the young and naive.

reply from: gotfetus

Dispite your yellow river, abortion is not murder, for it is not against the law. Now if that makes you tinkle, so be it. Put tinkling doesn't change the truth.

reply from: fetalisa

I am so sorry. I was under the impression I was living in a free country, which meant I had the right to silly ideas rights like the right to free association, bodily autonomy, free speech and abortion.
Oh wait, that's right. Your silly little, deluded opinions have no bearing on the rights I enjoy AT ALL, do they?

reply from: fetalisa

Really? Where's the birth certificate?
Sure you can. You walk in the clinic pregnant. You walk out of the clinic not pregnant. It's like magic. But maybe that's not fast enough for us to call it 'automatic.'
Well DUH! That's the beauty of abortion and the sole reason it exists.
That could well be if she had kids before she had the abortion.
Person? HAHA! Sure! She even has the BIRTH CERTIFICATE to prove it!
HAHAHAHA! You kids today sure crack me up.

reply from: carolemarie

Yet, none in our society are obligated to live under your deluded fantasy (which probably results from your young age) that abortion is murder. Anyone can have an abortion today and not go to jail. So, it's very obviously not murder, outside of the fantasies of the young and naive.
That works both ways. We are not obligated to live under YOUR deluded fantasy that abortion is a good thing. Things don't stay the same. Slavery was once legal, it isn't anymore. Abortion is currently legal. One day it will not be.

reply from: gotfetus

Yet, none in our society are obligated to live under your deluded fantasy (which probably results from your young age) that abortion is murder. Anyone can have an abortion today and not go to jail. So, it's very obviously not murder, outside of the fantasies of the young and naive.
That works both ways. We are not obligated to live under YOUR deluded fantasy that abortion is a good thing. Things don't stay the same. Slavery was once legal, it isn't anymore. Abortion is currently legal. One day it will not be.
And what was the penalty for slavery after it was out lawed? Or did they just prosicute the sellers, and not the owners? I bet they let the owners go so they could get the sellers. Right? So it is your contention that the money person in the conspiracy to murder by abortion gets a free walk to get the one who did the job and sold abortion? You really don't believe that abortion is murder do you? Just how many specks have you paid an abortionist to remove? And if you terminated a speck, that makes you a murderer. If I were pro-life, I would tell you to get to the back of the bus and shut up. But the pro-lifers expose their hypocracy by making it more about those who terminate specks, than the specks themselves. That is why you have a failed "movement". You agree with your enemies more than you realize.

reply from: xnavy

felalisa i am 46 years old and the mother of 3 and i don't believe in abortion. i believe if people don't want to get prenant use more than
1 form of birth control. there is always tubal ligation. that last works wonders, i had one after my daughter was born and not 1 pregnancy.

reply from: fetalisa

It's a free country and you can believe whatever you want. None in our society are legally obligated to live OUR lives based on YOUR opinions, however.
Yet, None in our society are legally obligated to live OUR lives based on YOUR opinions. There is no law AT ALL which states we MUST use birth control, much less use more than one type of birth control.

reply from: AshMarie88

Why does this one think abortion is soooooooooo awesome and why does he love it?
How can you be so sick?

reply from: fetalisa

Who ever argued abortion should remain legal because it's "awesome?" You are showing your age again!
Who ever argued that they loved abortion? You are showing your age again.
What is sick is to claim abortion is murder that kills a person, but then say a woman who pays a hitman to kill the person in her womb shouldn't go to jail. We don't allow people who pay hitmen to walk away scot free in our society.

reply from: AshMarie88

Who ever argued that they loved abortion? You are showing your age again.
Because you obviously don't look at any of your other posts to see what you write.
lol... if you can find my post where I have ever said that, that would be great. Thanks.

reply from: yoda

They are probably different names for the same troll, Mother. Do you know how to put people on ignore so you won't have to see their posts? Just click on the "my forums" link at the top of the page, and go down to the bottom where it says "add ignored user", and click on that. Type in their name, click the button, and you won't be bothered with them again.

reply from: nykaren

They are probably different names for the same troll, Mother. Do you know how to put people on ignore so you won't have to see their posts? Just click on the "my forums" link at the top of the page, and go down to the bottom where it says "add ignored user", and click on that. Type in their name, click the button, and you won't be bothered with them again.
Ah, yes, wonderful thing, being able to ignore those you don't agree with. Saves you having to think about the difficult questions or deal realistically with the issues - like Yoda himself. Maybe that's why he makes little sense at times. He has all the answers to the questions he hasn't even read. lol

reply from: fetalisa

So you misinterpret and misrepresent my claims on these boards, much like any naive child would. You are showing your age again.
So then you do believe if abortion is banned, women who have them should be tried for murder, for paying a hitman to kill the child in her womb?

reply from: yoda

Well I haven't put YOU on iggy yet, karen. Do you suppose that means I agree with YOU?
No, probably not.....
But those trolls who make no attempt at rational discussion are not worth my time. You do at least attempt to disguise your support for baby killing by cloaking it in what passes for rationality in this society...... so far.

reply from: AshMarie88

No.
I believe in the death penalty for the people who kill the babies; the abortionists.

reply from: gotfetus

No.
I believe in the death penalty for the people who kill the babies; the abortionists.
how conveniant. So what if a police woman gets a speck removed just to catch a "murderer". Would that be intrapment? So we should let the wife go for paying a hitman to kill hubby? I thought that those in the conspiracy to commit murder were just as guilty as the one who pulled the trigger? So you really do not believe specks are "womb children", do you? How can you call it murder if you are willing to let the money person go to get the trigger man? You really can't see how flawed your position is?

reply from: Motherof3

I believe the mother and the father and the abortionists SHOULD get the DEATH PENALTY.

reply from: fetalisa

So a woman who pays the abortionist hitman to kill the child in her womb walks away scot-free? How can you justify not charging her with either of murder, or conspiracy to commit murder?

reply from: AshMarie88

Not all post abortive women deserve the death penalty, fyi.
Or some post-abortive fathers.

reply from: gotfetus

You are a rare find. If speck removal is murder, then you would be right. Most pro-lifers do not agree with you. They parade ex-speck removers around like heros. But if they really believe speck removal was murder, they would realize blabber mothed ex-speck removers actually weekens the case for protection of specks in the womb. Most pro-lifers have more concern about the removers than the specks removed.

reply from: cassabreu

As we all know, that at this present time, abortion is legal. Therefore, anyone commiting this horrible act is, by law, not commiting a crime, therefore, is not punishable. However, when abortion is finally seen as it truely is and is no longer legal, any woman who undergoes this operation is as guilty as the doctor who preforms it and is commiting murder and fully punishable. (not to say it is not murder now, it is. just not under the law)

reply from: cassabreu

You are a rare find. If speck removal is murder, then you would be right. Most pro-lifers do not agree with you. They parade ex-speck removers around like heros. But if they really believe speck removal was murder, they would realize blabber mothed ex-speck removers actually weekens the case for protection of specks in the womb. Most pro-lifers have more concern about the removers than the specks removed.
I do not understand why you keep calling these babies "specks". How can any person with an IQ over 13 look at an ultrasound and think a baby is a speck. Abortion does not only occur during the first few weeks when a baby doesn't "look fully human". They occur through the full 9 months. A 9 month old baby is hardly a "speck".

reply from: AshMarie88

My mom made a mistake, she was uneducated and never told what happened in abortions or how they were performed; she regrets hers to this day and wish she hadn't of done it.
I'd barely qualify her for the death penalty.
I would, however, qualify the sorry SOB who actually killed my brother, for the death penalty.

reply from: yoda

Trolls like gotfetus make no attempt to make any sense. They are only here to disrupt the forum.

reply from: gotfetus

20 something years ago, the Philidelfia Police bombed a building that had a killer cult in it. 14 years ago the Davidian camp was burned to the ground. If abortion is murder, then is it right to burn the speck removal clinic down? If you truely believe that the clinic was a murder center, then you would do what ever it took to stop it. But you anti-speck removers only give lip service to your cause. Very few actually believe the propaganda. You really do not believe your precious "womb child" is a "person". If you did, you would get matches, and a can of gas. At the very least you would not condemn those who do. But you really do not believe what you say when it comes down to it. Hypocracy is far to kind of word for your "movement".

reply from: AshMarie88

Just because we're anti-abortion, doesn't mean we believe in most violence.
I'm as anti-abortion as anyone could get, but I'm also against bombing clinics. Imagine that!

reply from: cassabreu

20 something years ago, the Philidelfia Police bombed a building that had a killer cult in it. 14 years ago the Davidian camp was burned to the ground. If abortion is murder, then is it right to burn the speck removal clinic down? If you truely believe that the clinic was a murder center, then you would do what ever it took to stop it. But you anti-speck removers only give lip service to your cause. Very few actually believe the propaganda. You really do not believe your precious "womb child" is a "person". If you did, you would get matches, and a can of gas. At the very least you would not condemn those who do. But you really do not believe what you say when it comes down to it. Hypocracy is far to kind of word for your "movement".
Unlike the pro-killers, most of us are peaceful, and believe in peaceful protest. I hardly condider grabbing a book of matches and a can of gas and running around burning every mill in sight to the ground peaceful or acomplishing anything. They will only be rebuilt and start killing again. That is not addressing the true problem; that abortion is still legal.

reply from: cassabreu

What are you talking about? Condemn who?

reply from: fetalisa

There's no need to worry yourself with that poster. He's a pro-lifer doing a very bad job of pretending to be pro-choice. The fine art of subtlety is completely lost on his pretenses.

reply from: abc123

Fetalisa & gotfetus......
Murder is: To kill brutally or inhumanly.
So is abortion brutal? I beleive the ripping off of body parts and the injections of a pair of scissors into the neck and sucking a brain out could be classified as brutal, right?
Is abortion inhumanly? Is it done with pity or sympathy or compassion? I wouldn't think so, it is more of a relief for killer moms and a nice pay day for the local baby assassin.....
So along the lines of slavery, would you have agreed with slavery up until the point it became illegal? So you let an ever changing government tell you what is right or wrong, moral or immoral, murder or whatever you would call the opposite of that for abortion? What about the Nuremburg trials? On October 1st, 1946 twelve Nazi's were sentenced to death by hanging for the 'legal' killing of Jews. So can I assume that you would also agree that the killing of the Jews in Germany was OK because the law of the land said it was legal in Germany; at least at that time?

reply from: gotfetus

It is back on you speck lover. If terminating specks becomes illegal, what should be the penalty for women who have their specks removed? Hang them with the Nazi?

reply from: fetalisa

So then, once abortion is banned, you believe women who get illegal abortions should be tried for murder, since, as you freely admit here, any such woman is a 'killer mom," right?

reply from: abc123

Gotfetus & fetalisa......
Why won't you answer the questions I asked you?
In response to both of your questions since they are basically the same, when abortions becomes illegal in our land the mother and the abortionist should be tried for murder just as someone who kills their 2 year old child would be.
And do some research and take a look at what a baby in the womb looks like; it doesn't resemble a speck; it looks like a human being only smaller depending on its gestation age.
So who else do you feel it is OK to kill in the name of convenience or vanity? The poor? The elderly? People not pulling their weight in society?

reply from: fetalisa

Ahh, then you are one of the few here who is actually consistent in your argument. You claim abortion is murder, therefore, women who have them should be tried for murder. However, your consistency will never garner enough public support to become reality, because it scares the hell out of the public to think a woman who has an abortion should be tried for murder.
The problem here is, the majority of the pro-life do not agree with you. The majority says;
1. Abortion is murder
2. We won't jail women who have them, only doctors
So for the majority of the pro-life, such an inconsistent view proves to the public they don't truly believe abortion is murder. You are not in that majority however, in that your views ARE consistent, except the public will never your buy your consistency, in much the same way they don't buy the inconsistency of the majority of the pro-life as shown above.
I already have. That's why I don't give a squat about pre-viable zygotes, embryos or fetuses. I would feel more guilt over killing a fly than killing a pre-viable zygote, embryo of fetus. Hell a living fly has FAR more sentience than a pre-viable zygote, embryo or fetus.
It doesn't resemble a person either.
But it doesn't act like a person. It acts like a non-thinking, non-conscious, non-rational, non-feeling, no-sentient non-person, which is why I have no qualms AT ALL about anyone killing one. Hell, my cat shows more sentience than a pre-viable zygote, embryo or fetus, so I value the life of my cat far more than a pre-viable zef.
Any pre-viable unborn will do, provided that's what the mother wishes. If she would rather birth and keep, or birth and adopt out, well that's alright too.

reply from: cassabreu

Originally posted by: fetalisa
But it doesn't act like a person. It acts like a non-thinking, non-conscious, non-rational, non-feeling, no-sentient non-person, which is why I have no qualms AT ALL about anyone killing one. Hell, my cat shows more sentience than a pre-viable zygote, embryo or fetus, so I value the life of my cat far more than a pre-viable zef.
When I had my 4D ultrasound with my last baby, she sucked her thumb, rubbed her eyes and pulled on the umbilical cord. She blinked her eyes, open and closed her mouth and stuck out her tounge. Those seem like actions of a person, not a "non-thinking, non-conscious, non-rational, non-feeling, no-sentient non-person".
Just sayin

reply from: gotfetus

That could be arranged.

reply from: cassabreu

You are a rare find. If speck removal is murder, then you would be right. Most pro-lifers do not agree with you. They parade ex-speck removers around like heros. But if they really believe speck removal was murder, they would realize blabber mothed ex-speck removers actually weekens the case for protection of specks in the womb. Most pro-lifers have more concern about the removers than the specks removed.
I do not understand why you keep calling these babies "specks". How can any person with an IQ over 13 look at an ultrasound and think a baby is a speck. Abortion does not only occur during the first few weeks when a baby doesn't "look fully human". They occur through the full 9 months. A 9 month old baby is hardly a "speck".
Bump for gotfetus

reply from: cassabreu

What are you talking about? Condemn who?
Bump for gotfetus

reply from: gotfetus

I have plenty of bumps. I don't need anymore. But thanks for the offer.

reply from: fetalisa

Well I am talking about pre-viability, which is when an overwheliming number of abortions are done in this country.
Just saying

reply from: cassabreu

I would only like an answer to my question.

reply from: cassabreu

Well I am talking about pre-viability, which is when an overwheliming number of abortions are done in this country.
But not all. Are you suggesting that you think later term abortions are wrong?

reply from: gotfetus

I would only like an answer to my question.
Could you remind me what they were?

reply from: cassabreu

What are you talking about? Condemn who?
Here ya go. Not sure what you were talking about

reply from: gotfetus

What are you talking about? Condemn who?
Here ya go. Not sure what you were talking about
Just hang around kiddo. It won't take long for your fellow pro-lifers to run you in the ground for what you have posted. Look how they crucified your hero FM. Not that he didn't deserve it. But you guys seem to shoot your wounded pretty quick. Of course FM seemed to take aim at the healthy as well. You must be new at this. You need to check out your PL history. Heck, one doesn't need a bunch of bit bulls, just throw a few pro-lifers in the ring and you got one mean bloody fight. These threads are pretty good proof of that.

reply from: AshMarie88

Well I am talking about pre-viability, which is when an overwheliming number of abortions are done in this country.
Just saying
"Unviable" babies suck their thumbs, rub their eyes, pulls on the umbilical cords, sticks out their tongues, jumps, even cries. It's all in fetal development.
Yet, you still justify killing them.

reply from: cassabreu

What are you talking about? Condemn who?
Here ya go. Not sure what you were talking about
Just hang around kiddo. It won't take long for your fellow pro-lifers to run you in the ground for what you have posted. Look how they crucified your hero FM. Not that he didn't deserve it. But you guys seem to shoot your wounded pretty quick. Of course FM seemed to take aim at the healthy as well. You must be new at this. You need to check out your PL history. Heck, one doesn't need a bunch of bit bulls, just throw a few pro-lifers in the ring and you got one mean bloody fight. These threads are pretty good proof of that.
What are you talking about????? What post? And who said Fman was my hero???? Seems to me that unless you were here under a diff. name, I have been around a few days longer than you. I would still like an answer to my question

reply from: gotfetus

What are you talking about? Condemn who?
Here ya go. Not sure what you were talking about
Just hang around kiddo. It won't take long for your fellow pro-lifers to run you in the ground for what you have posted. Look how they crucified your hero FM. Not that he didn't deserve it. But you guys seem to shoot your wounded pretty quick. Of course FM seemed to take aim at the healthy as well. You must be new at this. You need to check out your PL history. Heck, one doesn't need a bunch of bit bulls, just throw a few pro-lifers in the ring and you got one mean bloody fight. These threads are pretty good proof of that.
What are you talking about????? What post? And who said Fman was my hero???? Seems to me that unless you were here under a diff. name, I have been around a few days longer than you. I would still like an answer to my question
I don't know what more you want. I answered the best I could.

reply from: cassabreu

What are you talking about? Condemn who?
Here ya go. Not sure what you were talking about
Just hang around kiddo. It won't take long for your fellow pro-lifers to run you in the ground for what you have posted. Look how they crucified your hero FM. Not that he didn't deserve it. But you guys seem to shoot your wounded pretty quick. Of course FM seemed to take aim at the healthy as well. You must be new at this. You need to check out your PL history. Heck, one doesn't need a bunch of bit bulls, just throw a few pro-lifers in the ring and you got one mean bloody fight. These threads are pretty good proof of that.
What are you talking about????? What post? And who said Fman was my hero???? Seems to me that unless you were here under a diff. name, I have been around a few days longer than you. I would still like an answer to my question
I don't know what more you want. I answered the best I could.
Are you talking about condemning those who burn down abortion clinics or other pro-lifers on this site? Or none of the above.

reply from: fetalisa

Back up a minute.
Here's what you said;
When I had my 4D ultrasound with my last baby, she sucked her thumb, rubbed her eyes and pulled on the umbilical cord. She blinked her eyes, open and closed her mouth and stuck out her tounge. Those seem like actions of a person, not a "non-thinking, non-conscious, non-rational, non-feeling, no-sentient non-person".
I answered;
Well I am talking about pre-viability, which is when an overwhelming number of abortions are done in this country.
Now, given that a ultrasound is generally performed for all pregnant women at 20 weeks gestation, why would you drag an example of an ultrasound into the debate, when you know 88% of abortions are done by the end of the first trimester, which is 14 weeks?
Just asking.

reply from: gotfetus

Back up a minute.
Here's what you said;
When I had my 4D ultrasound with my last baby, she sucked her thumb, rubbed her eyes and pulled on the umbilical cord. She blinked her eyes, open and closed her mouth and stuck out her tounge. Those seem like actions of a person, not a "non-thinking, non-conscious, non-rational, non-feeling, no-sentient non-person".
I answered;
Well I am talking about pre-viability, which is when an overwhelming number of abortions are done in this country.
Now, given that a ultrasound is generally performed for all pregnant women at 20 weeks gestation, why would you drag an example of an ultrasound into the debate, when you know 88% of abortions are done by the end of the first trimester, which is 14 weeks?
Just asking.
like I say. Specks.

reply from: gotfetus

What are you talking about? Condemn who?
Here ya go. Not sure what you were talking about
Just hang around kiddo. It won't take long for your fellow pro-lifers to run you in the ground for what you have posted. Look how they crucified your hero FM. Not that he didn't deserve it. But you guys seem to shoot your wounded pretty quick. Of course FM seemed to take aim at the healthy as well. You must be new at this. You need to check out your PL history. Heck, one doesn't need a bunch of bit bulls, just throw a few pro-lifers in the ring and you got one mean bloody fight. These threads are pretty good proof of that.
What are you talking about????? What post? And who said Fman was my hero???? Seems to me that unless you were here under a diff. name, I have been around a few days longer than you. I would still like an answer to my question
I don't know what more you want. I answered the best I could.
Are you talking about condemning those who burn down abortion clinics or other pro-lifers on this site? Or none of the above.
All the above.

reply from: fetalisa

Proof? And when I say 'proof,' I mean solid MEDICAL proof for your claim here, not some cow paddies served up from a biased website that reads like the National Enquirer.
So, let me make sure I have this straight. No society in human history has ever recognized the unborn as persons, nor equivalent to persons. which is why the majority of societies in human history didn't regulate abortion, until the point of quickening, and the ones that did criminalize it usually had very minor penalties for it.
This has been the case throughout history. Which makes my views the norm with history, as well as the norm with our present society, yet you are trying to make me out as the oddball? " You are the extremist here, while I am the centrist.
OOPS! I'm sorry. I momentarily forgot you are too young to know what any of that means.

reply from: cassabreu

Back up a minute.
Here's what you said;
When I had my 4D ultrasound with my last baby, she sucked her thumb, rubbed her eyes and pulled on the umbilical cord. She blinked her eyes, open and closed her mouth and stuck out her tounge. Those seem like actions of a person, not a "non-thinking, non-conscious, non-rational, non-feeling, no-sentient non-person".
I answered;
Well I am talking about pre-viability, which is when an overwhelming number of abortions are done in this country.
Now, given that a ultrasound is generally performed for all pregnant women at 20 weeks gestation, why would you drag an example of an ultrasound into the debate, when you know 88% of abortions are done by the end of the first trimester, which is 14 weeks?
Just asking.
I am not positive that the 88% is correct, but let's assume that it is. That means that 12% of babies aborted are killed in the last 2 trimesters. Perhaps 88% of aborted babies are pre-viable, but that does not mean that they are worth any less than a baby that is a few weeks or months older, that given the chance, could live outside the womb.
Most pre-choicers claim that pre-born babies are incapable of feeling, living, possessing any fraction of worth. When I saw my baby on that screen... she was very much a person and very much worthy of life; just like every other baby, wanted by it's biological parents or not.

reply from: gotfetus

Proof? And when I say 'proof,' I mean solid MEDICAL proof for your claim here, not some cow paddies served up from a biased website that reads like the National Enquirer.
So, let me make sure I have this straight. No society in human history has ever recognized the unborn as persons, nor equivalent to persons. which is why the majority of societies in human history didn't regulate abortion, until the point of quickening, and the ones that did criminalize it usually had very minor penalties for it.
This has been the case throughout history. Which makes my views the norm with history, as well as the norm with our present society, yet you are trying to make me out as the oddball? " You are the extremist here, while I am the centrist.
OOPS! I'm sorry. I momentarily forgot you are too young to know what any of that means.
Oh come on. Cut the whelp some slack. She had a hard day of work and abortion. She is comming around.

reply from: fetalisa

It is correct for the year 2000;
"% of abortions under 13 weeks gestation 88%"
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_fact.htm
That's my point exactly. If 88% of abortions, which is an overwhelming majority are done by the 13th week, why would you mention an ultrasound at week 20 as being somehow exemplary of abortion in general?
You can't determine worth for something that doesn't belong to you. I mean you can determine what it's worth to you, but you can't determine what it's worth to them, because you are not them. So they don't find the value in theirs that you did in yours, so what? People are different and it doesn't affect your life anyway whether they find the same value you did or not.
88% of the ones that are aborted ARE incapable of feeling, they lack sentience at that stage of development.
Oh, so now we have living and non-sentient.
So is that it? You are upset because others find non-sentient life such as plants, to lack value to them? First of all, who taught you that everyone on the planet would see things as you do? That's a bit of a ridiculous expectation to have, don't you think? It is even sillier for you to be upset that others don't see it as you do, when you saw an ultrasound of a wanted fetus at week 20, while they are abortiing unwanted non-sentient life before week 13, which morally, is equal to killing a plant, which is also non-sentient life.
That was your personal feelings about a personal situation. Others won't have the same feelings you do in the same situation, because they are not you. I know this is heartbreaking for you to hear, but not everyone feels the same way about the same situation. What you felt in your situation, tells us nothing at all of what someone else might feel. It's incredibly naive of you to expect that everyone would feel the same as you.
She most certainly was TO YOU, obviously.
You can't determine worth for something that doesn't belong to you. I mean you can determine what it's worth to you, but you can't determine what it's worth to them, because you are not them. So they don't find the value in theirs that you did in yours, so what? People are different and it doesn't affect your life anyway whether they find the same value you did or not.
And it's hardly reasonable to get upset with some other person that doesn't find much value in non-sentient life, like plants or pre-viable zefs.
Actually it does, because in the pre-viable stage, it's non-sentient life, no different than a plant.
Well the problem here is, it's never guaranteed a womb. Nature doesn't even guarantee pre-viable zefs a womb, given that 50% of the spontaneously abort without human intervention.

reply from: fetalisa

A plant is a a living being, so how does this statement disprove the following claim;
"No society in human history has ever recognized the unborn as persons, nor equivalent to persons."
Especially given that in the quote YOU cited from Roe, it also states;
"The Oath was not uncontested even in Hippocrates' day;"
So the oath was contested and not all agreed with it, and indeed, according to the quote you provided;
"Why did not the authority of Hippocrates dissuade abortion practice in his time and that of Rome?"
So the fact the Hippocratic oath existed does not prove these societies found unborn to be equal to born. Abortion continued in Rome, in spite of what the Pythagoreans said. Had the views of the Pythagoreans been universally accepted by these societies, abortion would have been banned. If the penalties for having one under a ban had been the same as the penalty for the murder of a born person, you might actually have a case which disproves my claim, but you don't.
If you ever actually learn the rules of logic and are able to disprove a claim, I will consider it.

reply from: fetalisa

I am sorry you fail to grasp the topic under discussion are the 88% of abortions that occur before the 13th week of pregnancy, which has nothing AT ALL to do with born chidlren. Reading and comprehension skills pay!

reply from: fetalisa

I'm getting tired of showing you on how many points this particular argument fails....
Then you are the odd man out, even amongst the pro-life, many of whom readily admit the lack of sentience of the unborn;
"The reason for choosing sentience as the criterion is that ba being that cannot experience anything (i.e., a presentient unborn entity) cannot be harmed."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-sum/q-life021.html
So many who agree with your viewpoint have no issues at all with admitting an 'unborn entity' lacks sentience, because it does the movement no good at all to deny SCIENTIFIC FACT;
""The undisputed discovery that the neonate and fetus launch a hormonal and neural response to invasive practice cannot be considered proof there is an experience of pain. An experience implies sensations have been interpreted in a conscious manner. Even when combined with the observations of behavior and improved clinical outcome when using anesthetics, there is still no proof there is an experience of pain. Although all of these phenomena are associated with the notion of "pain," none of them adequately describe or explain the phenomenological experience of "pain." These phenomena may exist independently of conscious experience." http://www.ampainsoc.org/pub/bulletin/jul03/article1.htm
""Although the thalamocortical fibers penetrate the cortical plate at approximately 26 weeks' gestation, the cortical regions that have been identified as important in processing the various components of pain (Derbyshire, 2000) do not become fully responsive until after birth (Chugani & Phelps, 1986)."
http://www.ampainsoc.org/pub/bulletin/jul03/article1.htm

reply from: fetalisa

Kill him if you want and you will most likely end up in jail for murder.
What is so funny here is you completely ignore how many parents DO IN FACT VALUE their born children differently. Some have a favorite one over their other children, while some will treat one child out of the others as a scapegoat. This would not be possible if ALL parents valued their children the same in ALL SITUATIONS, which they clearly do not.

reply from: fetalisa

Which is immaterial to the topic of abortion, 88% of which occur by the 13 week of pregnancy. I am not discussing born people who might have their brains blown out, but non-sentient life, the majority of which are killed by abortion up to the 13th week of pregnancy.
You have not addressed anything AT ALL multiple times. The fact you can't stay on the topic at hand, which is the 88% of non-sentient life killed in abortion, has nothing at all to do with someone blowing out the brains of a sentient born person. Here's a clue; a sentient born person who has their brains blown out, is not on topic at all in a discussion of non-sentient life killed by abortion by the 13th week of pregnancy. Is it really so difficult for you to grasp that a born person who IS sentient, who might get shot is not on topic at all when we are discussing non-sentient life killed long before birth?


2017 ~ LifeDiscussions.org ~ Discussions on Life, Abortion, and the Surrounding Politics