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Man oh man... I never thought I'd be told this.

My mom had an abortion....

by: AshMarie88

BUMPING FOR KAREN, and I don't mind it. Most people who ask me why, I tell them:
So, today mom and I started talking about different things, our life, my parents' soon-to-be-divorce, etc. and she told me she had something to tell me. She told me I had the right to know. She just never knew how to tell me, or when to.
When she was 22 or 23, she became pregnant and when she told my dad, he told her to get rid of it; to go get an abortion. She had it done alone, he never even went with her, nothing. Mom told me he went on vacation. So, she also had to drive herself back.
I'm just... heartbroken right now, and more pro-life than ever before. My mom regrets it terribly, and she also has repented and asked God for forgiveness many, many times, but she just cannot get over it, altho I forgive her too. People make mistakes, that was one of her biggest. I can forgive anyone who regrets their abortion choice and asks for forgiveness.
Still, it's so shocking to me. Altho, all my life I felt like I had a "lost" sibling, I always had this feeling I had an older brother, and I've always wanted an older brother. Mom believes the baby was a boy, she always felt that too. And each time she dreamt about a baby boy, one of my aunts would get pregnant and have a child.
Anyway, I never thought I'd be told something like this, it truely tears me up inside. Especially the fact my dad was the one to encourage her to get it done, and she (as she was telling me) was "weak" and had no idea or information on abortion. I don't know if I can EVER forgive my dad for that one. I'm so disgusted right now.
I love my mom, I love my brother, and I do love my family and friends. And I feel like I want to be closer to God more than ever now. I need him a lot...
Oh, and my brother would be 26 or 27 now...

reply from: lovingmommyof2

I am so sorry to hear about this. I told you my Mom did the same thing. She had an abortion at 20-21 weeks gestation and killed my older sister. It is not always easy to deal with the fact that my Mom chose to kill my sibling but she does regret it. After 28 years she still regrets it and cries over paying someone to kill her child. I feel your pain Ash and I am sorry that you have to deal with it.

reply from: JohnGlenn

Strange how you forgive mom- the one with the ultimate power of choice yet will not forgive your dad for being weak and having no idea or information on abortion-"This, then, is how you should pray:

Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.' "
Matthew 6:9-13 (NIV)
Even more strange you claim to be closer to God more than ever now- when you harbor unforgiveness- how is THAT possible? Where you so far away from God that even in this satate of rebellious unforgivensss you are now closer? "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."Matthew 6:14-15 (NIV) "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matthew 12:36-37 (NIV)
Forgiveness is the paramount point of healing. Forgiveness is the paramount point in which God lifts from your shoulders the weight of the world. Forgiving is the point from which you let go of all the things that people have done to you, that you cannot tolerate, that have hurt you, that have caused you to feel badly Forgiveness isn't just about the other person; it's about you as well. Your father may also be in pain- like mom- wishing to be able to forget- Yet you KNOW the truth and are able to help him heal- drawing him loser to your God as well! You are missing a great opportunity in your selfish rebellion of unforgiveness- but I guess hating dad is more important for you-

reply from: yoda

Ashley, there was once a man with a wild, uncontrollable son. It got so bad the man had to send him away from home. After he'd gone, the old man kept getting reports on the awful things his son had done. There was a large log over the main door of the barn, and every time some bad report came to him, the old man would drive another nail in that log. Over the years he nearly filled it up. But then one day his son came home and saw the log, and found out what it meant. He was shocked at the number of nails. A change came over him, and he resolved to mend his ways and do good thing from then on. And every time the old man heard about some good deed his son had done, he pulled one of the nails out. Eventually, he pulled out every single nail.
His son came home, and looked and the log, and started crying. When the old man saw him crying, he asked him why he wasn't happy that all the nails were gone. "They're gone", the son replied, "but the scars are still there".

reply from: AshMarie88

Ashley, there was once a man with a wild, uncontrollable son. It got so bad the man had to send him away from home. After he'd gone, the old man kept getting reports on the awful things his son had done. There was a large log over the main door of the barn, and every time some bad report came to him, the old man would drive another nail in that log. Over the years he nearly filled it up. But then one day his son came home and saw the log, and found out what it meant. He was shocked at the number of nails. A change came over him, and he resolved to mend his ways and do good thing from then on. And every time the old man heard about some good deed his son had done, he pulled one of the nails out. Eventually, he pulled out every single nail.
His son came home, and looked and the log, and started crying. When the old man saw him crying, he asked him why he wasn't happy that all the nails were gone. "They're gone", the son replied, "but the scars are still there".
That is a very good moral lesson... Thank you for that!

reply from: Teresa18

I'm so sorry, Ashley. It had to be such a blow to you to learn that you would have had an older brother with you today. It had to hurt to realize your dad didn't help your mom and told her to get an abortion. I'm also sorry to hear your parents are getting a divorce. It's ok that you'll be upset and even angry for a little while. Those feelings are natural human emotions and are necessary in dealing with feelings.
It seems that your parents are pro-life now, though. Support your mom (I know you will) because she knows what she did was wrong, and the pain of the abortion will most likely last with her for her entire life. She'll never forget. However, she learned what she did was wrong, and she asked for forgiveness. The Lord has forgiven your mom because the Lord is kind and merciful, and you mom is truly sorry. I'd talk to your dad because he may be very wounded from the abortion and regret it as well, especially if he is pro-life. He may have asked the Lord's forgiveness as well, and I'm sure the Lord forgave him if he was truly sorry.
I'll pray for you in this troubled time, and put your faith and trust in God. Your brother is now in heaven in the hands of the Lord. Take comfort in knowing that you will one day be reunited with him.

reply from: AshMarie88

I don't believe my dad is pro-life, only because of a comment he made a while back about my cousin. And I would be so nervous to even mention it to him, and if I did I'd probably end up not speaking to him after it (if he did not regret it). It's just so scary for me.
Otherwise, I do support my mom, and am trying to get more closer to God than ever.
Thank you for your prayer, very much, it's very appreciated at this time.

reply from: brookeb82

My mom has a similar story. She and my dad began dating in 8th grade. When they were in college she got pregnant and my dad gave her two choices:
1. Have an abortion
2. Remain pregnant, I'll marry you, but I'll leave as soon as the baby's born.
She ended up having an abortion, but didn't tell me and my brother about it until they got divorced after 16 years. She didn't even tell her parents until then. After the abortion, I guess my dad saw how broken up my mom was, and told her he'd marry her and he'd make it up to her. A few years after me and my brother were born, my mom asked him, "When are you going to make it up to me?" He said, "Well, I let you have my children, didn't I?" Yippee. My brother and I were allowed to be born! He had an affair when I was 10, and they divorced after that. He's now a born-again Christian, but I feel weird knowing that my dad was one of "those guys" who would use threats and manipulation to get a woman to have an abortion.

reply from: AshMarie88

Does anyone know of any good support groups or anything online, for families, friends, and siblings of aborted children??
I can't seem to get over this myself, I'm pretty depressed.

reply from: Teresa18

One site that I joined, just to read some of the womens' after affects of abortion, was the PASS boards. (I haven't written anything on there yet.) Basically, there are a lot of women who have had abortions and are suffering. However, when I signed up, they welcomed family or friends who were close to an abortion. The people there seem friendly. You have to register to view all the forums except the guest forum.
http://afterabortion.com/forums/index.php

Also, some of these I found on unfairchoice.com looked as though they might be good.
Kala's Group at http://www.seghea.com/cheryl/index-2.html

An online community with an intimate feel. Kala's Group hosts message boards, and scheduled chats. It also has a memorials page.
Hannah's Prayer Ministries at http://www.hannah.org/welcome.htm
A welcoming Christian site that also includes hope and support for other pregnancy loss and infertility.
Independent E-mail Support Groups at http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/HealthWellness/Support/Abortion_Recovery?show_groups=1
In addition to e-groups sponsored through some of the sites listed above, there are a number of independent post-abortion e-groups. It is free and easy to create an e-group through Yahoo Groups. Anyone with an email address can do it. At this time, there are 42 abortion recovery e-groups registered through Yahoo groups. Here's a link that takes you to the Yahoo index for these groups. Note that on the index, you can see how many people belong to each list.

reply from: bradensmommy

I was doing a little research, its not a support group but an article. I'll keep digging and post whatever I find:
http://www.priestsforlife.org/testimony/siblingaborted.htm

reply from: xnavy

i know how you feel, when i was in my 20's and i was pregnant with my first son robert. my mom told me she had 2 abortions between
my brother ricky and my brother billy, and if she had known where an abortionist was when she was pregnant with my brother neil and i
we would not be here today. she showed no remorse or regret. she said a first trimester fetus was just a blob of tissue. she told me not
to tell my father, so i am guessing she did not tell my father about the abortions. she is dead now and i have never discussed this with my
father.

reply from: Banned Member

Where there is tragedy, there are also miracles occurring.
Imagine learning that ones own conception was the result of contraceptive methods that failed. Thats right, my own mother and biological father were "careful" those many years ago. Fortunately, no method of contraception is 100% effective, except abstinace which apparantly was not tried in my case. My mother loved and cared for me and never considered aborting me. My other biological parent commited the emotional abortion that many do in that he never recognised me as his child.
I have friends that were told their first child was "defective" in that there was no amniotic fluid around their son, and that they might do well to abort him. They got a new doctor, and after prayer and trust in God, their son is now about 5 years old and in quite excellent health.

reply from: holopaw

You are in my prayers, AshMarie.

reply from: AshMarie88

I was unplanned, so I might've been conceived because of failed contraception, I'm not sure...
However, that is a sad situation. But, I'm glad your mother had and raised you, she's a strong woman.

reply from: AshMarie88

I re-wrote one of my old poems (wrote it in 2005 I believe, it's a poem for women who regret their abortion/s), and set it on the table for my mom so she'll see it tomorrow.

reply from: bradensmommy

I was a broken condom baby. My mom was 18 when she got pregnant. She went to PP to get a test (I totally support PP if it didn't have anything to do with abortions because they give out free bc, paps, and education). They told her her options when it came out positive. She said they did not harrass her about it either, they called her and asked her what she decided to do and she said she wanted to keep me.
So PP sometimes isn't all that bad either.
Ash, I hope you find support for your loss because I don't know what I'd do if I knew my mom had an abortion.

reply from: AshMarie88

Thanks Crista, I hope I can too. It's very hard.

reply from: holopaw

Let me get this straight. PP didn't suggest your mother kill you in the womb, (however they are the largest provider of abortion in our country and responsible for the death of millions of boys and girls), and therefore they are sometimes not so bad? Glad you were a Roe v. Wade survivor, but you aren't showing much empathy for the others that weren't so lucky.

reply from: holopaw

I'd totally support the Klan if they didn't think it was acceptable to hang black people. They are Pro-Life. I don't ever give evil credit for good. PP hands out subpar bc, so women end up pregnant before they are ready to have a child. They want to teach teenagers all about sexuality and how not to get pregnant (sure they do). We don't let minors make the decision to smoke, however we're perfectly fine exposing them to social diseases and unwanted pregnancies. PP is great, except for that child killing thing.

reply from: AshMarie88

They say they're pro-life, but are they really?
Maybe they're pro-life when it comes to perfect white babies, but I doubt they're pro-life when it comes to non-white babies.
Therefore, you can't exactly call them pro-life. Or even Christian for that matter...

reply from: bradensmommy

Let me get this straight. PP didn't suggest your mother kill you in the womb, (however they are the largest provider of abortion in our country and responsible for the death of millions of boys and girls), and therefore they are sometimes not so bad? Glad you were a Roe v. Wade survivor, but you aren't showing much empathy for the others that weren't so lucky.
Thanks for trying to make me out to be an ass when I clearly was not. PP would not be horrible if they didn't do abortions nor give out info about them. They do however give out free bc, paps, and education to anyone who wants it. If you actually read my post instead of taking out what you assumed I thought you'd understand what I was saying.
But I will talk clearly so you can understand what I meant. One day my mom and I were talking about abortion and PP. I was telling her how I thought PP was a horrible place and she told me this story. She told me the story of when she went to a PP to get birth control. They had her take a test first (even in the doctor's office you have to make sure you aren't pregnant before you get them). The test came out positive. They told her what her options were. They called her the next day for a follow-up. She said that she wanted to keep me. That was it, no harrassment, no "you are too young", nothing. So not all of them sit there and ridicule you to "get rid of the problem".
By the way sorry Ash for seeming like I"m taking over your thread, I hate explaining myself to people who aren't getting what I said.

reply from: faithman

They say they're pro-life, but are they really?
Maybe they're pro-life when it comes to perfect white babies, but I doubt they're pro-life when it comes to non-white babies.
Therefore, you can't exactly call them pro-life. Or even Christian for that matter...
You are exactly right. Adolf got alot of his abortion doctrine from the Klan. They both believed in forced abortion for non-whites. That is exactly the driving force behind Planned Parenthood. More from the fit, and less from the "disgenic".

reply from: MoonLady

AshMarie - I hope you have found some kind of support for your emotional upheaval. Please at least be grateful that your mom had a SAFE and LEGAL abortion that did not leave her dead or sterile.
I am missing a younger brother or sister due to one of "God's abortions" - my mom had a miscarriage at home when I was about 10 years old. I knew what had happened (my mom is an RN) but it never bothered me much because I had never heard a fetal heartbeat or felt it move.
Please talk this out with your mom if you can.

reply from: AshMarie88

O_O
Obviously her abortion was not safe. Not only is her first child dead (she was lied to), she has the unfortune of always remembering that horror. That's not safe.
Another O_O... One of "God's abortions"?
I already have before.

reply from: faithman

We have not yet reaped the emotional and mental devastation abortion has caused. I was talkung to a young man whos mom was going to abort him but his grand mother talk her out of it and raised him. The bitterness that young man had for his mom... I was very fortunate to have a mom who loves life, loves me, and gave me a wonderful childhood. I can't help but weep for those who missed out on such an early life. And these stupid skanks refuse to see how evil abortion is.

reply from: AshMarie88

I'm not assuming much, FM, but I hope it's not my mom you're calling a "skank".
With your other posts I don't know who you are ever talking about!

reply from: yoda

The act of killing an innocent human being is NEVER "safe" for the victim.......

reply from: bradensmommy

And even so not all legal abortions are safe anyway.

reply from: faithman

Skanks are those who live very lose sexual lives, and kill their kids so the little tike dosen't get in the way of their fun. I never call a truely penatent post abortive woman a skank. I have spent enough years at the clinics to know that many women are forced into situations they never wanted to be in. In a way, your mothers regret is a good thing, it shows she has a heart. No, kiddo. Your mom is not a heartless skank, that has no conscience when it comes to killing womb children. I am afraid I would have to call your pappy a coward though. Coerced your mom to commit murder, then run out on her when she did his bidding.

reply from: AshMarie88

If abortion was TRUELY "safe" NO ONE would die.

reply from: MoonLady

If cars were truly safe, no one would die.
If prescriptions and OTC drugs were truly safe, no one would die.
If food was truly safe, no one would die.
If air travel was truly safe, no one woud die.
If running was truly safe, no one would die.
If LIFE was truly safe, what would happen?
I'm just astonished at the way some people think. You cannot have a 100% guaranteed SAFE life. You consider the risks and take your chances, right? Do you think women who abort know NOTHING about it and have NO CLUE what they are doing?
It's your God who kills people anyway. If he wanted everyone to be safe, there would be no disease, no accidents, no natural disasters, no water, no food, no sharp corners in our softly rounded, ever-so-gentle world.

reply from: AshMarie88

None of those thing listed even slightly equals actually PURPOSELY killing someone else!
Mostly when people die in cars, from travel, etc. they're ACCIDENTS. Unlike abortion.

reply from: yoda

Cars do not intentionally kill innocent human beings. Aborting women and their hired killers do.
We do not share your astonishment, we have seen your way of thinking here countless times before.
I'm agnostic. And I never heard of "God" getting an abortion, have you?

reply from: bradensmommy

I don't know about y'all, but I have read posts from members of cafemom.com who have said they didn't know anything about fetal development and were not informed of it when they were FORCED to abort. Many females who go through with it do not know, they do not know the stage of gestation they are in or what the baby looks like. Why do you think ultrasounds need to be done? Oh, I'm sorry I guess that goes against the pro-choice movement...lies instead of facts.
Stop saying that all women who go through it know exactly what they are doing when most do not.

reply from: faithman

Cars do not intentionally kill innocent human beings. Aborting women and their hired killers do.
We do not share your astonishment, we have seen your way of thinking here countless times before.
I'm agnostic. And I never heard of "God" getting an abortion, have you?
Yah. unfortunatly the blob survived and posts on this forum as Moonlady.

reply from: yoda

Yeah, blobs can learn to type and everything, can't they?

reply from: Alexandra

When I was pregnant with my son I had a gut feeling even before the test was positive, and I was very protective of my baby from that point on. I never thought of him as a blob.
AshMarie, at least your mother knows that what she did is wrong. At least she isn't callous about it.

reply from: faithman

About ten years ago, we were showing the aborted baby picture called Malachi at the heart of texas fair [officials have sence band it]. Every pregnant woman who saw the picture covered their bellies in a defensive posture. I will never forget that. Women are decieved about abortion because they want to be. Every mom I have talk to knew they had a child growing in them.

reply from: MoonLady

"I don't know about y'all, but I have read posts from members of cafemom.com who have said they didn't know anything about fetal development and were not informed of it when they were FORCED to abort."
Were these women drugged, chained up and dragged into the clinic? Who signed the consent forms? If anyone tries to FORCE a woman to abort, she has the time and opportunity to tell the clinic workerst that she DOES NOT want the abortion and is being forced into it.
I cannot understand how force was used or how surgery was performed without the woman's consent, especially because most abortions are performed with only local anesthesia and the woman is completely awake.
Women NEED TO KNOW that it is ILLEGAL to use physical force to attempt to make a woman have an abortion and that they can have the men making those threats arrested.

reply from: AshMarie88

FYI, force can mean just about anything. Many women are "forced" (threatened, or brainwashed into the decision), and it's not JUST by men they're forced. Many women/girls are forced into the decision by their parents or other family members, too.
It's very sad.

reply from: pookiy1980

I thought that the informed consent form explained what is going to happen when the abortion happends. It is just hard for me to think woman are so ignorent not to know "when you are preg. that means you are going to have a baby" abortion is ending a preg=killing the baby in you.
Yes US need to be done and are to get the proper age of the baby. What the issue is rather or not it should be forced to make the mother look at it. I do not like the word forced but I also do not see why the PC would be against this. If a woman has her mind sent on abortion looking at the US or reading the ICF is not going to change their mind. If it does then fine that was her choice to choose life and PC is about choice so.....
I understand what you are saying about "forcing" a woman not always physically but mentally. "I am going to leave you if you do not have an abortion" or "we will disown you and kick you out of the house if you have this baby"

reply from: yoda

I've read recently about a lawsuit against an abortionist who told a woman all she had was a "blood clot", not a baby.
Does that sound like informed consent?

reply from: AshMarie88

I've read recently about a lawsuit against an abortionist who told a woman all she had was a "blood clot", not a baby.
Does that sound like informed consent?
EXACTLY.
And sometimes it's not even that they tell you "it's just a blood clot", they won't tell you anything but "what the procedure does". That's what happened to my mom.
And people claim that doesn't hurt women.

reply from: Teresa18

I've read cases where the women don't know. They are literally shocked and depressed later on when they see an ultrasound or picture of fetal development. The child within the womb has been called all sorts of names such as parisite, cancer, tumor, blood clot, and blob of tissue. I have an example for you. Look at this medical site. They describe the abortion, but when they get to the point where they scrape the child off the wall of the uterus, they call him/her tissue.
http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/Dilation-and-evacuation-DE-for-abortion

They make the child sound like a clump of tissue on the wall, and I could see how an uneducated or scared woman would buy this propaganda.

reply from: pookiy1980

I've read recently about a lawsuit against an abortionist who told a woman all she had was a "blood clot", not a baby.
Does that sound like informed consent?
Again I do not think that little of a woman to not know they are preg. I mean they are at the clinic right?? They go in for an abortion
Now I do know that there are some PC groups who do not think the MD should have to tell the mother that she is ending the life of a seporate human being exc. which is stupid why wouldn't you tell em??
Great that this MD is getting in court maybe more woman who speak up about what the MD's are saying then maybe they will get their butts in check....
As far as a blood clot?? Maybe the "afterbirth" can be said it looks like a blood clot I mean if it is early.....but to say not a baby.....crazy!

reply from: pookiy1980

Not all Md's are crooked there are some neurologists who do not tell the truth and some oncologists too not just abortion OBGYN's.
How long ago when your mom killed her baby? I thought you said you were 18 and he is an "older" bro?? long ago and many new guidelines have come into play...I am sure there were mD's who were honest back then but your mom got a crook...

reply from: pookiy1980

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/Dilation-and-evacuation-DE-for-abortion
">http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-gu...DE-for-abortion
They make the child sound like a clump of tissue on the wall, and I could see how an uneducated or scared woman would buy this propaganda.
They are refering not only to the fetus but the placenta. They have to scrape the placenta/decuda off the wall of the uterus the actual fetus is not on the uterus. They are calling this the tissues. I think it would be appropriate to say what "tissues" are bring removed as the fetus, placenta, decuda, and chorionic villi to be detailed.....I see what you mean though they never refer to the baby as baby or fetus, or embroyo....
I know this is not the informed consent but I know the ones I am required to use must be at a 6-8 grade reading level and use the guidelines as described in SMOG.

reply from: AshMarie88

About 7-8 years before I was born.

reply from: MoonLady

"Another O_O... One of "God's abortions"?"
A "God's abortion" is when He causes a woman (especially one who is thrilled to be pregnant and looking forward to the birth of her child) to have a spontaneous abortion, also known as a miscarriage. He also causes stillbirths, His very cruel form of unwanted late-term abortions. Women have no choice whatsoever in these situations and are left to just deal with it.
God has left thousands, possibly even millions of women depressed, angry, confused, heartbroken, stressed out and emotionally wrenched by deliberately aborting or killing their babies. The reactions to one of God's abortions are usually far worse than "PASS" because these are women who really, truly wanted their babies - some of whom died after their mothers had heard their heartbeats, felt them move and saved their sonograms.
Ashley, how would you have reacted if your mother's secret was that she miscarried your older brother rather than trying to please your father by aborting their child? Would you still mourn him as much?
What if your mother had aborted YOU? Would you have ever known or cared? You know that the brain is not developed enough to function autonomously until just a few weeks before viability. Had you mother aborted you at six or eight weeks, only she and her doctor would have ever known. Have you ever thanked her for choosing to have you?
It just seems like you over-reacted to her admission, what with the "RIP" thing on all your posts. Maybe you should join a group for women who have lost babies to miscarriage and stillbirth so you can feel their pain instead of wallowing in your shock and disapproval about something your mother did a long, long time ago.

reply from: AshMarie88

You don't know my situation Moon, so don't act like you do. Just stop, ok? Please and thanks.

reply from: yoda

Knowing the word "pregnancy" does not tell you much about the baby, does it?
Ummm....... just a guess here...... but they might lose a fee if the woman changes her mind when you tell her the truth, maybe?
Proaborts say and do a lot of "crazy" things. It's up to us to shine a little light on their insanity.

reply from: yoda

Maybe you should save your cereal box psychoanalysis for someone who has you asked for it?

reply from: Teresa18

There is a lot of bitterness directed at God here. I'd just like to respond to some of your remarks. God never directly causes a woman to have a miscarriage. Usually there is some factor that causes a woman to miscarry or the child to die, whether it be early in the pregnancy or later on as a stillbirth. Now we could potentially argue that God did nothing to stop the factor that ultimately led to the death of the child, but that is of course God's perogative. He made each of us here, and he has a plan for each of our lives, regardless of how long that life is. Sometimes he may choose to extend certain lives here on earth, but other times he may choose to use certain circumstances like illness to bring a person home. It is certainly difficult for us to understand all sorts of deaths. It's not just preborn children that die, but born children, teens, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas, friends, and lovers. Unfortunately, in life we lose people who are very dear to us. We must ultimately realize, however, that God made us, and he will decide when to bring us home. That's why it is so sad when someone chooses to end the life of another person prematurely by killing them in abortion or murder. Our lives belong to God as do those of our neighbors. We should leave it up to him to decide when to take a life home. It's important to take comfort in the idea that our home is not here on Earth, but in Heaven. We ultimately spend our entire lives trying to get to Heaven by leading a good life. If someone dies, like a preborn or young child, it is certain that they lived a good life. We can be happy that they are home with God, and we will be there too if we live a good life.
I disagree. You obviously have never read what the women with PASS are going through. It is obvious by your quotes around the word PASS that you have no belief in its existence. Later, I will get you the links to two active forums where women discuss their PASS on a daily basis. The pain they feel in knowing that they played a large part in the death of their child is crushing to them. At least there is a sense of peace in a miscarriage that the Lord took the child on his time, and the child is with God. In PASS, they know that their child is with God, but their child would be here right now if they had not had an abortion.
I'm answering these question for myself here and not on behalf of Ashley. Obviously I would not have known if my mother had killed me. However, would you "know" if someone killed you at this moment? I mean of course if someone tried to kill you or I we would feel pain during the murder, but afterwords we would not "know" or "care" because we would be dead. I don't think that in anyway justifies killing either one of us though. I'll say the same for an unborn child. Is cognitive awareness one of the only qualifications for killing someone? For example, a person under anesthetic, a person in a coma, or a person who is severly mentally ill allowed to be killed just because they may have no awareness or understanding of what is going on? Of course none of these people are going to "care", but does that make it acceptable to kill them?
If my mother had chosen to abort me at 6 or 8 weeks, she would know, her doctor would know, but most importantly, God would know. The world would know in some way, maybe just not in the way you are thinking. For example, what about the guy who invented the wheel? Would the world know if his mother had aborted him? Well, there sure as heck wouldn't be wheels all over the place. What about the guy who invented penicillin? Would the world know if his mother had aborted him? Well, there sure as heck wouldn't be cures for a multitude of infections. What about Martin Luther King? Would the world know if his mother had aborted him? Well, blacks may have still been severely repressed if had not lived. Does the world knowing make killing acceptable? Heck, we could start with the homeless, lonely elderly, some prisoners, and the mentally ill. Why couldn't they just kill one of us? How many people in the world would miss you or I? Neither of us are celebrities. I daresay most people, looking at size of the Earth would miss us. That's true for most folks. Very few of us here are well known around the globe like a celebrity. It's a shame because abortion has led the world to miss out on a lot. I wonder if we would have a solid cure for various types of cancer or a vaccination for AIDs. I wonder what inventions we have missed out on. I wonder what good, caring people we have lost. The world won't know in the sense that you are thinking about, but in a way, the world will know.
I have to say that is very harsh. Ashley just found out that she has a brother. Sure he is no longer living, but if he was, she would have an older brother in her life right now. Ashley has every right to be upset.

reply from: LetFreedomRing

I'll be praying for both you and your mom, Ashley.

reply from: AshMarie88

Ah, thank you Teresa, you explained all that when I couldn't. And thanks Freedom.

reply from: MoonLady

Ashley, I apologize and I will just let it go as you requested.
Teresa, thank you for your very thoughtful reply. (You ALWAYS seem to post very intelligently and make a lot of sense.) I do have some residual anger issues with God. When I was about 11, I lost a little brother to miscarriage and remember how upset my mom was - even though she is a registered nurse and accustomed to blood, illness, etc., she was crying her eyes out.
That experience made my own pregnancies a lot more stressful than they should have been because my parents were non-smoking, non-drinking, hard-working people and we ate a very natural diet of fresh, home-grown and home-preserved food. My mother's miscarriage made no sense at all, it terrified me (she lost the baby into the toilet and had to retrieve it to take along to the hospital) and it happened late enough that she knew it was a boy.
I used "PASS" to distinguish a condition not (yet) recognized by psychiatrists from "PAS" (Post-Adoption Syndrome), which is a documented and recognized psychological illness. No insult was intended to those who suffer after abortion. Actually, I believe that PASS will be put into the official list of diagnoses fairly soon. They DO change their minds - after all, at one time homosexuality was on the list but was removed a while back.
Thanks again.

reply from: Teresa18

Thanks :-). I never mind discussing things with you because you are thoughtful and friendly. You don't get nasty as a couple of our other posters who support abortion.
I'm sorry that you had such a horrible experience losing your brother. Of course your mother was upset, that was her little boy she lost. I could never imagine such a horrible experience. It is one no mother would want to go through. Just know your little brother is in Heaven. Like I said, we don't understand why God decides to use certain circumstances to bring life home. We just have to trust he has a reason. The sad thing about abortion is little boys like your brother are losing their lives when they are perfectly healthy.
As far as PASS, I truly believe it exists. I've seen too many examples. I think the medical community generally supports abortion, and I think they like to underestimate its effects so that it looks like a good alternative for pregnant women. I don't understand why, but it seems to be the case. I've never heard of PAS before. That's interesting. I'll have to look into that to learn more about it.
Have a good day! :-)

reply from: AshMarie88

Apology accepted, but I'm sorry, it's just a hard thing for me to talk about, it's upsetting.

reply from: 4given

Thank you for re-posting this.. The unborn are blessed because you have a love for what was robbed of you.. We are blessed to have your passion! I am sorry it had to happen this way, but God is One of equal balance, and even though there isn't a justification for what happened to your brother.. You will save many more babies from the slaughtering hand because of this.. I am glad in that!

reply from: 4given

Ashley, there was once a man with a wild, uncontrollable son. It got so bad the man had to send him away from home. After he'd gone, the old man kept getting reports on the awful things his son had done. There was a large log over the main door of the barn, and every time some bad report came to him, the old man would drive another nail in that log. Over the years he nearly filled it up. But then one day his son came home and saw the log, and found out what it meant. He was shocked at the number of nails. A change came over him, and he resolved to mend his ways and do good thing from then on. And every time the old man heard about some good deed his son had done, he pulled one of the nails out. Eventually, he pulled out every single nail.
His son came home, and looked and the log, and started crying. When the old man saw him crying, he asked him why he wasn't happy that all the nails were gone. "They're gone", the son replied, "but the scars are still there".[/q
That is like the nails we used to crucify Jesus! W/ every wrong that is done to us.. the pain fades, but the scar remains forever.. I think I just reiterated what Yodavater said.. I actually did just do that. We all have scars, whether visible or not.. I ache for the wounded heart though! Truly I do! I have compassion for you!

reply from: carolemarie

I can only imagine what a shock this was to you. I am sorry that you are feeling so bad.
I can offer a few things that you shouldn't do...
Don't assign guilt to your parents, (who was more responsible)
Don't bring it up to your father...
Instead,
Forgive your parents. Jesus has.
Remember that your brother is alive and you will see him again.
Remember that while this is all new to you, it is something that happen before you were born.
Let go of the anger, resentment and grief and let God carry those things for you.
Carole

reply from: faithman

The mistake in your post is this, if a person has not repented of wrong doing, Jesus has not forgiven them, and the full wrath of God abides on them. Calvary made the way of forgiveness posible, but folk must walk up the hill of the cross to find it. Sloppy agopy is not the gospel no matter how good it sounds. Hell is a real placer and awaits those who do not surrender to the Lordship of God in flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. Your post is a sugar coated plaseebow that will get folk condemned to hell. Touchy feel good is not the gospel.

reply from: AshMarie88

I forgave my mom the very day she even told me. I couldn't forgive dad (in my heart) until about 2 months ago.
And yes Jesus has forgiven them (whoever has repented, I know my mom has), that's a good thing.

reply from: AshMarie88

The mistake in your post is this, if a person has not repented of wrong doing, Jesus has not forgiven them, and the full wrath of God abides on them. Calvary made the way of forgiveness posible, but folk must walk up the hill of the cross to find it. Sloppy agopy is not the gospel no matter how good it sounds. Hell is a real placer and awaits those who do not surrender to the Lordship of God in flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. Your post is a sugar coated plaseebow that will get folk condemned to hell. Touchy feel good is not the gospel.
Faithman don't be a jerk. Do I have to repeat myself fro my previous posts?
MY MOM HAS REPENTED. Therefore she was forgiven.

reply from: faithman

The mistake in your post is this, if a person has not repented of wrong doing, Jesus has not forgiven them, and the full wrath of God abides on them. Calvary made the way of forgiveness posible, but folk must walk up the hill of the cross to find it. Sloppy agopy is not the gospel no matter how good it sounds. Hell is a real placer and awaits those who do not surrender to the Lordship of God in flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. Your post is a sugar coated plaseebow that will get folk condemned to hell. Touchy feel good is not the gospel.
Faithman don't be a jerk. Do I have to repeat myself fro my previous posts?
MY MOM HAS REPENTED. Therefore she was forgiven.
I am not being a jerk, and my post was addressing the false theology of the post. I am glad your mom has repented, and therefore my post does not apply to your situation. If a person was on an unstable clift that was about to give way under them, I would be a jerk to tell them of the danger they were in? Maybe I should back a basket full of meaningless feel good sentament and join them on the clift for a "nice" pick nick.

reply from: nykaren

Ashley, Thanks for bumping this up for me. I hope you understand my question was in no way meant to hurt you. I just wondered what the situation was when your mom made her decision. She obviously didn't have much choice, or at least it must not have seemed to her that she did with your dad making demands. Her decision was wrong, she's another of those "unless you've been there..." situations. You STILL have a brother, just as I still have little Sam, they'll always be a huge part of us. And we'll see them again one day. (((((hugs))))) Karen

reply from: faithman

Ashley, Thanks for bumping this up for me. I hope you understand my question was in no way meant to hurt you. I just wondered what the situation was when your mom made her decision. She obviously didn't have much choice, or at least it must not have seemed to her that she did with your dad making demands. Her decision was wrong, she's another of those "unless you've been there..." situations. You STILL have a brother, just as I still have little Sam, they'll always be a huge part of us. And we'll see them again one day. (((((hugs))))) Karen
oooh yuck!~ a slimmy hug from a pro-abort death skank. I bet Sam runs from the one who conspired to have him killed when he sees you.

reply from: AshMarie88

My mom: "I just didn't know the truth before. I didn't know who to go to."
Almost her exact words. It's heart wrenching.
Women are lied to every day and it shouldn't happen whatsoever.
I do have a brother, I always say and think that. And I think if he was alive today he'd be very thankful of what I try to do. Which makes me proud to help in the first place and try to educate people on every fact there is.
I always feel like somewhere he's watching me, and smiling all the time.

reply from: nancyu

He didn't "die" he was killed. Death is natural, being sucked into a jar is not.

reply from: nancyu

This is a situation I wouldn't forgive.

reply from: AshMarie88

Why the hell did you bump up this old post? And what do you mean there's no "evidence" of that? Evidence of what?
And I STILL have a brother, you moron. Just because family members die, doesn't mean you still don't have those family members. You still have siblings, cousins, etc. even if they died.
So I have a brother. He may not be alive now, but I still have a part of his flesh and blood.
So, go away.

reply from: AshMarie88

Um, did I say my brother would've been pro-life? That doesn't even matter anyway, you just don't understand this kind of pain, I'm sure.

reply from: AshMarie88

My one cousin might not have been pro-life either, but that doesn't mean I want every future pro-abort dead and that I don't miss my aborted family. You're just a heartless moron who likes to make ASSumptions. And thanks for bringing this horror up again. Ugh.

reply from: anCRYPTIon

do you read your own posts?

reply from: AshMarie88

No, not when they're posts from a different year. What's the point when the posts are DEAD?

reply from: AshMarie88

Because it's MY thread about MY brother and MY feelings, I can do or say anything here I want to.

reply from: teddybearhamster

i'm sorry this poster is being so callous to you. it's not right.

reply from: AshMarie88

Why do you keep telling everyone to kill themselves? Are you really this insensitive, bigotous and moronic as you seem to be?

reply from: galen

dear redacted... go chew on your own brain.... its all zombies are good for anyway.

reply from: sander

He only likes scientology. He's a real admirer of of L. Ron Hubbard.
He wants everyone to give to the church of scientology....jerk.

reply from: galen

Oh I take that back.... Please go chew on an alien brain.
* bwhoohahahahahahaha*

reply from: sander

LOL!
No, really he likes little green men and Hubbard is his idol.
Go figure.

reply from: galen

i knew that... and i REALLY want him to chew alien brain... one less of them to take over the world.
ps... don't tell Pinky.....

reply from: galen

well lets see....... he can't spell... he doesn't know the language... sounds alien to me.

reply from: AshMarie88

lulz srsly git a edumicashun.

reply from: galen

i guess he's a coward

reply from: teddybearhamster

where did this guy come from?

reply from: teddybearhamster

practice what you preach jerk.

reply from: JesusLovesYou

It really does depend on the PP in question. Most of them are nasty racist abortion mills, but I did come across one young lady who told me the support and free medical care she got at a PP is the only reason she didn't abort. I think there are people involved with it who have good intentions and do try to help, but the organization on the whole is bad and we'd do well to be without it.

reply from: faithman

It is about the personhood of the womb child. Once established, all this craziness goes away. So pro-personhood folks just need to ingnore prochoice/prolife and keep the focus on personhood for the womb child. Anything else is a distraction, and ultimatly deadly to our preborn brothers and sisters. They are who we fight for, and there is where our loyalty belongs, not to a "movement" that has sold them out, and cares more about looking good, than saving BABIES lives. This is 1st last and always about the child in the womb. This is not about all the neo-prolifers that have personal aggendas, who have even point blank said on this forum that they would fight presonhood tooth and nail just to keep future killers out of Jail. Pro-personhood folks need to quit being bogged down in emotionalism, and realize the guilty should be prosicuted. That no new laws will have to be legislated when personhood for the womb child is established. The ones already there will work just fine, and a jury of 12 citizens have the final say. Pro-personhood people need to elect state legislators that will establish personhood at the state level, then let them graduate to the federal level to get the job done there as well. WE THE PEOPLE need to speak loud and often. It is time we quit asking, and demand action on behalf of children in the womb. Or we can continue to play stupid little semantical games and watch the children die another 3 plus decades.

reply from: galen

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/horror_of_abortion.htm

reply from: galen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYm_pLUn5o

reply from: jujujellybean

your post is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. nothing worse to mope about? her brother who would be older than her know was killed before he got a chance to life. that's sad. and your post reaks nothing of compassion, but egocentricness simply because you are telling this to a hurting person. so stop being so mean.

reply from: AshMarie88

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Get over yourself. Your life must be pretty good if you've got nothing worse to mope over than your mother having an abortion. And making it all about how you feel! Talk about egocentric.
Your life must be pretty lame if you've got nothing to do rather than to mope about me showing my feelings about something.
How about YOU get over yourself?

reply from: jujujellybean

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Get over yourself. Your life must be pretty good if you've got nothing worse to mope over than your mother having an abortion. And making it all about how you feel! Talk about egocentric.
Did anyone but me notice the only part xenatiger left out was the part where it said her brother would be 26 or 27 now? Anyone else? Maybe it's just me when I say that they always leave out the part where it's obviously killing a baby, a human?

reply from: Smurfy

To the original post:
Both your parents were very young.
We all make many mistakes in our youth.

reply from: AshMarie88

What does that have to do with anything, Smurf?

reply from: jujujellybean

yah really that relates to anything how?

reply from: Smurfy

If you can't figure that out then no-one cane help you - not even your god.

reply from: AshMarie88

Many murderers and rapists were very young and make many mistakes too. Figure that one out.


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