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message . . .

by: ronald70059

The message only takes about 4 minutes to read and it is too important not to read.
This is the most important question of your life.
The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?
The Holy Bible describes Heaven as a beautiful place with no death, sorrow, sickness and pain. {Revelation 21:4}
Many people wrongly think that just being a good person and/or belonging to a local church will get them into Heaven.
I am sure that you would agree that you have the right to say who may enter your own home.
In the same way, Heaven is where God lives and He has the right to say who may enter.
In the Holy Bible God tells us exactly what it takes for us to go to Heaven when we die.
First, my friend, you must realize that we were born with a sinful nature. The Holy Bible says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". {Romans 3:23}
This is why we need to be saved so we can go to Heaven and not Hell.
The Holy Bible describes Hell as a place of suffering and pain forever for all those who reject the salvation that only God can give. {Matthew 13:42}
The good news is that even though we are sinners God did something awesome for us.
God(The Father) loved us so much that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to bear our sin and die in our place. The Holy Bible says, "God commended His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". {Romans 5:8}
About 2000 years ago at the age of 33 Jesus Christ allowed Himself to be crucified. He shed His sinless blood and died on the Cross. Three days later God(The Father) raised Jesus Christ from the grave and Jesus Christ was later seen by many people. Jesus Christ is still alive today and now in Heaven waiting to welcome home those that are saved when they die.
God(The Father) said my sins and your sins were laid upon Jesus Christ and He died in our place. He became our substitute. It is true. God cannot lie.
To be saved the Word of God or the Holy Bible says, "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord(God in human form), and believe in your heart that God(The Father) raised Jesus Christ from the dead, you will be saved." {Romans 10:9}
Simply believe on Him(Jesus Christ God in human form who was born to a virgin Jewish woman in Bethlehem, Israel) as the one who shed His sinless blood and took your punishment for your sins, died in your place on the Cross, was buried, and whom God(The Father) raised from the dead after 3 days.
You shouldn't wait until later to be saved because you may die before you get another chance. Let God save you this very moment.
If you want to be saved right now just pray a meaningful prayer from your heart to God like the one below and you will be saved.
Dear God I want to be saved. Dear Jesus Christ Son of God I want to make you my personal Lord and Savior. Please forgive me of my sins or things I have done wrong in my life. Thanks Jesus Christ for taking my punishment for my sins by shedding your sinless blood on the cross and dying for my sins. Jesus Christ(God the Son) I now confess you as my Lord and believe in my heart that God(The Father) raised you from the dead. Amen.
If you just allowed God to save you then welcome to the family of God because you are now a Christian on your way to Heaven.
Now that you are saved you should strive to live a Godly life.
The following website http://www.JesusChrist.com will help you learn more about our wonderful Lord and Savior.
You may want to print a copy of this message from your printer or you can email me and ask me to email you a copy. Please include your email address with your request.
Have a good day!
RonaldLGrossi@yahoo.com < my home email address


Please show this message to your friends and family so they can have a chance to be saved.
______________________+†+______________________________

reply from: coco

I was wondering if i read this prayer and I am "saved" and I really ment what I said and then I want to a party and got really drunk and decided that I needed a pack of smokes and realized I didnt have cash so I was asking for money from complete strangers and one called me a bum and I got really pissed and I decided to throw a brick at his head and killed and robbed him would I still be saved?? I asked someone this and they told me that I would that my future sins would be exanerated ( sorry for the horriable misspelling) is that true because I find that laughable. Can you clear that up for me??

reply from: thecatholicamerican

I just did a Google search on Mr Ronald L Grossi and apparently he is a habitual spammer.
I reported him too.

reply from: bradensmommy

Lord, please make your followers go away
Amen.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Excuse me? I'm a follower, as are many on this board. Perhaps you mean this particular follower?

reply from: ChristianSoldier

AMEN, Brother!
Reporting this as spam? This is no viagra ad, folks. This is the most important message you will read in your very short lifetime. And, its not off-topic. It's PRO-LIFE! ETERNAL LIFE!
If you don't care where you spend eternity, than ignore it at your peril.
I pray you take heed, be saved and witness to the world.
Rock on, Ronald.
In Him,
Bruce

reply from: ChristianSoldier

P.S.
The cross in the middle should have been mine.
______________________+†+______________________________

reply from: thecatholicamerican

Yes Spam, that means that the person came here to promote a website without any intent of engaging in the actual discussion. This persons true motivations are irrelevant.

reply from: bradensmommy

Excuse me? I'm a follower, as are many on this board. Perhaps you mean this particular follower?
I was so get off my back for once.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Excuse me? I'm a follower, as are many on this board. Perhaps you mean this particular follower?
I was so get off my back for once.
I'm not on your back, whining at me doesn't excuse your insensitivity. If you meant follower you could have easily written the singular and not the plural.

reply from: bradensmommy

ohhh excuse me for an s by accident....
I will start making sure all of my words are correct for you....
oh yeah, I'm not making any more posts.....

reply from: xnavy

there is something called freedom of speech, bradensmommy if you don't want to read some one religions belief ----don't, this is still a
free country. i believe in the christian belief but i don't force it on anyone, but i don't appreciate anyone mocking my beliefs either.
i am simply saying people have the right to believe or in your case not believe.

reply from: bradensmommy

I believe that I'm practicing my free speech of JUST KIDDING...OMG...some of y'all have no humor whatsoever.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add...I'm DONE
Thanks.

reply from: Hereforareason

"AMEN, Brother!
Reporting this as spam? This is no viagra ad, folks. This is the most important message you will read in your very short lifetime. And, its not off-topic. It's PRO-LIFE! ETERNAL LIFE!
If you don't care where you spend eternity, than ignore it at your peril.
I pray you take heed, be saved and witness to the world.
Rock on, Ronald.
In Him,
Bruce "
Hello Bruce!
I haven't met you yet as I have not been posting much lately, but it's nice to meet you.
The content of the post Ronald made is true. Absolutly the most important thing you can read. However, I do understand how this has been seen as spam. This is a forum specifically for talking about the unborn and that does have to be respected.
"P.S.
The cross in the middle should have been mine.
______________________+†+______________________________
"
Amen.
"I was wondering if i read this prayer and I am "saved" and I really ment what I said and then I want to a party and got really drunk and decided that I needed a pack of smokes and realized I didnt have cash so I was asking for money from complete strangers and one called me a bum and I got really pissed and I decided to throw a brick at his head and killed and robbed him would I still be saved?? I asked someone this and they told me that I would that my future sins would be exanerated ( sorry for the horriable misspelling) is that true because I find that laughable. Can you clear that up for me??"
Hi Coco!
Maybe I could try to clear it up for you a bit. Feel free to ask questions, this can get sticky.
First of all, reading a prayer doesn't save you. Reading a prayer and really meaning it does not save you. What is it you are saved from? Eternity in hell becuase of your sins. To be saved you must repent and believe.
Repent does not mean to just say you are sorry. It means to turn from that sin and cease that activity. If you are saved then you realize that the horrible death Jesus Christ died, was the one you deserved. What would you be except greatfull for such a sacrefice? You then loath the sins that caused the flesh to be ripped from Christ's back, the sins that God can not look at. A follower of Christ may fall into sin occasionally, but he loaths it and fights it. If you are swimming in sin, you are not saved. You are experiencing the pleasures of sin for a season, but the season is short.
Does that help?
Amber

reply from: coco

But would I still be going to heaven if I killed that person after being "saved" the night before???

reply from: Shiprahagain

Being saved isn't a moment, it's a way of life. You don't have a saved moment and get a free pass to do what you like. You aren't saved Tuesday and then kill somebody Wed. You make a decision Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri to follow God's will to the best of your ability. You may get saved, years later leave the fold, and have to be saved again. If you kill somebody and don't repent and die you will go to Hell.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Nice to meet you, Amber.
I hate spam as much as the next guy.
But, is this really as off topic as it may appear at first glance?
What is the use of protecting the unborn, who will soon arrive into the world spiritiually dead, if we aren't prepared to do battle with the dark side to win their souls?
Also, considering the nature of some of the responses Ronald's post has elicited, I'd say there are "unborn" souls right here that dearly needed to hear that very message.
In Him,
Bruce

reply from: Hereforareason

"But would I still be going to heaven if I killed that person after being "saved" the night before???"
If you decided to kill someone, you aren't saved coco.
"Being saved isn't a moment, it's a way of life. You don't have a saved moment and get a free pass to do what you like. You aren't saved Tuesday and then kill somebody Wed. You make a decision Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri to follow God's will to the best of your ability. You may get saved, years later leave the fold, and have to be saved again. If you kill somebody and don't repent and die you will go to Hell."
I nearly agree with you Shiprahagain.
But I think it can be in a moment, but it is also a way of life. There is a time when it happens, to some maybe more gradual than others. But it is not a free pass to whatever you want. I don't beleive however that you can get saved, "leave the fold" and thereby throwing what Jesus did for you in the mud and then come back. If you have decided that his blood wasn't enough the first time it was shed, there is no second shedding.
Amber

reply from: Hereforareason

"I hate spam as much as the next guy.
But, is this really as off topic as it may appear at first glance?
What is the use of protecting the unborn, who will soon arrive into the world spiritiually dead, if we aren't prepared to do battle with the dark side to win their souls?
Also, considering the nature of some of the responses Ronald's post has elicited, I'd say there are "unborn" souls right here that dearly needed to hear that very message."
I agree Bruce, but not all here do. It is about life, but some here only want to talk about certain life. Seeing the forum isn't ours we can't do all that we might like to.
Amber

reply from: Hereforareason

Hey Bruce,
Your "God's 1/2 acre" link doens't appear to be working.
Amber

reply from: holopaw

See you later. Don't let the cyber door hit you on the way out.

reply from: Shiprahagain

You're right -- it's a moment and a way of life, but God is merciful and he says that the lost sheep brings Him more pleasure than the ones who never left when you return to the fold. You can lose your faith and ask forgiveness and return.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Thanks for the heads-up, Amber. There was a malformed link. Try now.
Regarding forgiveness: Just take a look at David's life. This 'man after God's own heart' was, at times, a mess.
God's Grace is HUGE!

reply from: revelation717

Hi,
Not new to website, but to forums. This is 1st one I've read all the way through. Loved seeing someone state the plan of salvation and help for people, then saw that others wre not so happy. I can explain why the poster put that on this site, or any site.
As Christians, we are called,commanded to spread the word of God. Not everyone that is saved is a Christian, because they may not try to live Christ-like. It is actually wrong for us to not tell others about God's amazing grace and love for mankind, I'd hate to know that someone I've dealt with dies and goes to hell that may have given their life to Christ if I'd told them about Him.
Anyway, thought it'd help if the reason that person had to post that "spam" was, so it could be understood.

reply from: thecatholicamerican

Perhaps if the topic had simply said, "Why I think you should be evangelized" of "Religious Topic" but the poster simply said "message". I dont think that the poster was being totally honest and was playing gotcha by advertising a website in an attempt at self promotion of his view of religion.
That said I am a Catholic. Its not too hard to find the Vatican website. If I give a view that pertains to religion, it either pertains to abortion or the topic that has been posted. Most evangelical Christians dont even think that Catholics are Christians.
I think that if people want to discuss religion they should discuss how it pertains to abortion. The original topis entitled "message" did not even name abortion in it, in fact it did not even hint at abortion anywhere.
Do a Google search on Mr Ronald L Grossi. He has a record of spamming sites that not only have nothing to do with abortion, but nothing in fact to do with religion at all. He just plays SPAM AND SCRAM.
Was this topic SPAM? You bet it was!

reply from: thecatholicamerican

Much to fear, have we... if fail to battle the dark side, we do.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Wow. So many disheartening implications in one sentence. Would there be no use in protecting each other, including prior to birth, if there were no "heaven and hell" to consider?
The point is, my friend there is Heaven and Hell to consider.
Is it what I claim to believe, rather than who and what I am, that decides whether or not my soul is "lost?"
No. Not what you claim to believe, but what you do believe, will determine the eternal condition of your soul.
Will the spam that was posted as the topic of this thread bring "spiritual life" to the unborn?
To the unborn, no. The hope is for the physically born and spiritually dead and unsaved (such as yourself, apparently) to hear and heed this important message.
Do you really think that if it were not for your religious beliefs, and perceived "obligation" to "do battle with the dark side," there would be no use in protecting unborn children?
No. Unborn children should be protected, regardless. But our time spent in this world is fleeting, compared to eternity, and to trudge through life, never accepting the gift of eternal life is just sad.
I feel obligated to protect them simply because they are fellow human beings, my "brothers" and "sisters." I would fight to protect your life, or your childrens (born or unborn) for the same reason, even if I knew for a fact that no "God" exists.
I will go so far as to say that if God Himself appeared to me and commanded me to slay a child, born or unborn, I would refuse.
That's easy to say...please let me know if you find yourself facing that situation.
Of course, I can not imagine a God who would command me to do so, which is part of my reasoning behind my doubts as to the "divine inspiration" of some of the texts purported by men to be such.
I am not a Christian, at least not in the most widely recognized sense, that is to say that while I might technically fall under the broadest definition...
If you believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who died on the cross for your sins and that he was resurrected, you are a Christian. Nothing more, nothing less. You either are or you aren't. In terms you can understand and relevant to this forum - you can't be a little pregnant.
...,I realize that many, if not most of the people who consider themselves to be "Christians" would not even even consider admitting anyone who does not agree with their understanding of "God" into their very exclusive fraternity.
There is nothing exclusive about it. All are welcome. Forgiveness is a gift readily available to all.
I find it quite distressing that while I live my life in a way that I feel reflects adherance to the teachings of historical figures (real or fictional, it matters not to me) who proclaimed the benefits to both self and society of virtues such as love and compassion for all people, there are those who consider me to be an enemy and a threat.
Who considers you an enemy and a threat?
I believe there is a "dark side" within every person. I believe there is a potential for both good and evil within every person. I believe spiritual growth is a "battle" that takes place within every spiritual being, and I believe we are all spiritual beings, regardless of our religious beliefs. I think it is naive to assume that anyone who does not adhere to your personal religious beliefs is "spiritually dead." It seems obvious to me that some have matured spiritually to a greater extent than others, and equally obvious that the label they choose to wear, the spiritual path they choose to follow, and the doctrines they choose to believe, are not indicative of their level of spiritual development.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Concerned Parent :I realize that many, if not most of the people who consider themselves to be "Christians" would not even even consider admitting anyone who does not agree with their understanding of "God" into their very exclusive fraternity.
Unless you've done a poll, you are merely being stereotypical. Furthermore, you would be in outrage if someone were to make such a comment about Pagans. One of my girlfriends is a Hindu fundamentalist from Nepal. She hangs out with me and other Christian fundamentalists like me b/c of the similarities of the God-centered worldview. I have in my "fraternity" muslims, buddhists, pagans, Ifas, Santerias, and a few you've never heard of -- guess it's not so exclusive huh?
As for being a true Christian, while I agree with many of your answers Christiansoldier, it's more than believing in God, but it's acting in a godly manner.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Agreed, Shiprahagain! Because we are sinners, we need Jesus. And having accepted Him, being filled with the Holy Spirit, our sin natures begin change and, by keeping in the Word, focusing on our walk with Him, our behavior changes.
I'd write a book on the subject, but its already been done! Its called the Bible.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

concernedparent, I once felt like you do.

You are free to believe whatever you like. God is not a puppetmaster. He takes no captives.

Understand that it is the Christians' job to witness to the unsaved. Sadly, not all will heed the Good News, many will perish.

I pray you are not one of them. If Christians have been duped into following a man-made religion, we have lived a good life and it will end one day. Period.

However, if Christianity is as we believe it to be....

reply from: GodsLaw2Live

Coco, just google "OSAS" (once saved, always saved), and you'll find more than you ever wanted to know. This is not the time or place for that discussion, but believe me, it is being hotly debated all over the internet.
The once saved, always saved notion is incorrect. Evil men like Martin Luther said he would not lose his salvation if he continued to murder a thousand times over and his faith in Christ was even greater.
The Bible says there would be men in sheep's clothing who are ravenous wolves within. The Bible says Satan's ministers appear as angels of light, as indeed, Satan himself can transform himself. The Bible warns us to look to the "fruits produced" to know good from bad.
No, Martin Luther, you can not creep into the home of a good and decent family, murder the father, mother, little boy and little girl, and then get to "heaven" because your faith in Christ is stronger than your sin.
Those who fall away and commit unspeakable horrors will not inherit the Kingdom. It's all about becoming a vessel worthy of use. Do not be deceived, no murderer, adulterer, or the like, will inherit the Kingdom.

reply from: bradensmommy

You know whats sicker than this whole thread? I was watching Silent Hill today and the woman on there that wanted to use fire to "burn evil "witches"" is kinda like some of the posters on this whole forum. Its like if you don't believe in God or don't have the "Christian faith" you are going to hell. That is such crap and so is the OP.

reply from: Shiprahagain

The idea that you won't go to Heaven without Christian faith isn't crap or sick. Nor is it analagous to the belief that it is good to burn witches.

reply from: bradensmommy

I really don't believe that and that is my opinion. But I think alot of posters on this board should stop spewing out things like that. Sometimes it seems like this is more of a religious forum than a pro-life one.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Christanity IS pro-life....BIG TIME! If you are content to believe that you will live a short time in this old world and return to dust, that is your right. No need to be hateful toward your fellow world citizens who believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior who loves YOU so much that he died a horrible death so that you may spend an eternity in an imperishable body with the Father and Creator.
Why bring up witch burners form some TV show? Is TV your reality? You don't like 'spewing' yet spend your time filling your head with the world view?
I'll pray for you and Braden and those within your sphere of influence that the still voice of conviction that is present to all of us, whether we choose to recognize it or not, will soon lead you to salvation.
If nothing else, you share a common purpose with Christians on this forum, sanctification of life. Why are you bashing them?
Blessings all around.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Coco, just google "OSAS" (once saved, always saved), and you'll find more than you ever wanted to know. This is not the time or place for that discussion, but believe me, it is being hotly debated all over the internet.
The once saved, always saved notion is incorrect. Evil men like Martin Luther said he would not lose his salvation if he continued to murder a thousand times over and his faith in Christ was even greater.
The Bible says there would be men in sheep's clothing who are ravenous wolves within. The Bible says Satan's ministers appear as angels of light, as indeed, Satan himself can transform himself. The Bible warns us to look to the "fruits produced" to know good from bad.
No, Martin Luther, you can not creep into the home of a good and decent family, murder the father, mother, little boy and little girl, and then get to "heaven" because your faith in Christ is stronger than your sin.
Those who fall away and commit unspeakable horrors will not inherit the Kingdom. It's all about becoming a vessel worthy of use. Do not be deceived, no murderer, adulterer, or the like, will inherit the Kingdom.
Not all Christians are Lutheran, and I don't know that Martin Luther said that or not.
Repentance IS a requirement. And it has to be sincere, not just lip service. Someone could creep in and kill a family or abort a baby and still BECOME saved by God's Grace through the sacrafice at the Cross.
You know that cross? There were three actually. The one, right there in the middle, well, it really should have been mine.
Praise God!

reply from: bradensmommy

Um...you can be pro-life and be another religion. I'm sorry that your head is full of things like "witches are the devil". I think you need to reread some religious history and maybe you'll open your mind to other things. BTW, it wasn't a TV show it was a horror film (OMG I'm going to hell because I love horror movies! *gasp*!)
I'm not bashing anyone but the OP needs to stop spamming religious things when not all of us are Christian...period the end.
You don't like me or my religion thats fine but you as well as a few others think that your religion is the right way and other ones are "evil" You are sad and closed minded. AND I have christian friends so don't even give me your crap about how I "hate" Christians because I don't, I just don't like it shoved down my throat.

reply from: coco

Coco, just google "OSAS" (once saved, always saved), and you'll find more than you ever wanted to know. This is not the time or place for that discussion, but believe me, it is being hotly debated all over the internet.
The once saved, always saved notion is incorrect. Evil men like Martin Luther said he would not lose his salvation if he continued to murder a thousand times over and his faith in Christ was even greater.
The Bible says there would be men in sheep's clothing who are ravenous wolves within. The Bible says Satan's ministers appear as angels of light, as indeed, Satan himself can transform himself. The Bible warns us to look to the "fruits produced" to know good from bad.
No, Martin Luther, you can not creep into the home of a good and decent family, murder the father, mother, little boy and little girl, and then get to "heaven" because your faith in Christ is stronger than your sin.
Those who fall away and commit unspeakable horrors will not inherit the Kingdom. It's all about becoming a vessel worthy of use. Do not be deceived, no murderer, adulterer, or the like, will inherit the Kingdom.
That makes total sense to me!!! I just find the thought of once saved always saved LAUGHABLE!! LOL

reply from: bradensmommy

Isn't that like sinning for 6 days then going to church on Sunday to be forgiven?
Like you can rape, murder, whatever, but then you are "saved" when you go to church...some people actually believe that.

reply from: coco

I wonder if that is why people murder, because they figure lets rub out those that annoy me and then I will be forgiven???

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Um...you can be pro-life and be another religion.
You sure can. Are you of another religion?
I'm sorry that your head is full of things like "witches are the devil". I think you need to reread some religious history and maybe you'll open your mind to other things.
Where did that come from? You brought up witches, not me. My mind is open, how about yours?

BTW, it wasn't a TV show it was a horror film (OMG I'm going to hell because I love horror movies! *gasp*!)
Again,where did that come from?
I'm not bashing anyone but the OP needs to stop spamming religious things when not all of us are Christian...period the end.
Ronald's message isn't FOR Christians. That's the whole point!
You don't like me or my religion thats fine but you as well as a few others think that your religion is the right way and other ones are "evil" You are sad and closed minded. AND I have christian friends so don't even give me your crap about how I "hate" Christians because I don't, I just don't like it shoved down my throat.
Did I say I didn't like you? You seem awfully defensive and on the offense, as well. I can't have an opinion on your religion, as I don't know what it is. I'm joyful and open minded. Perhaps your Christian friends need to spend more time with you?
Blessings ALL around.

reply from: bradensmommy

umm...you just contradicted yourself..did you not read what you posted before? I was just mearly replying back to you.

reply from: ProLifeWytch

Actually I like "Dear God Please Save Me From Your Followers", but that's just me.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

What contradiction might that be?

reply from: ProLifeWytch

Can you please tell me how this post is in anyway, shape, or form related to the topic of being ProLife? We are trying to present a united front against abortion, but you deicde to go and divide the people that post here by bringing religion into it. Do you really think that anyone who has grown up in the USA hasn't hear this before? If we are not "saved" by now maybe we don't want to be converted.

reply from: ProLifeWytch

Calm down, it's ok to persecute anyone who is not a xtian but as soon as we make a joke all "hell" breaks lose.

reply from: bradensmommy

This is what YOUposted back to me:
Why bring up witch burners form some TV show? Is TV your reality? You don't like 'spewing' yet spend your time filling your head with the world view?
I'll pray for you and Braden and those within your sphere of influence that the still voice of conviction that is present to all of us, whether we choose to recognize it or not, will soon lead you to salvation.
I don't need you to pray for me or my son. I know I will teach my child/ren that going around bashing other people because they aren't Christian isn't right.

reply from: bradensmommy

Did you understand that or should I do it the dee dee dee way so you can fully understand what you said to me and what I said back.

reply from: ProLifeWytch

Please explain to me what a man made religion is, as far as I knew all religions were started by men.

reply from: bradensmommy

And please explain to some of the people on here that Paganism was the FIRST religion so I don't have to keep arguing about it...

reply from: Shiprahagain

Tell that to miss "Dear God, please save me from your followers." As far as religion being made by men, Christianity is following the rules God outlined in the Bible. Bradensmommy, perhpas if you had some credible proof that Paganism was the first religion b/c last time you gave inaccurate postings from ppl on your myspace who claimed for one that Australian religions was pagan when dreamkeeping, their religions, isn't. Although I guess she didn't care about accurately representing the Nyooshgah, just making up pseudoevidence.

reply from: bradensmommy

I knew there was a reason I <3 you CP!

reply from: Ayame

Alright, I'm not going to post the whole information, but I would like to link you all to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

That has information about paganism, and if you do a proper search to the left, in the search bar, you can get MUCH better information. I don't know if this will HELP anyones case or if it WONT, but I thought it might help.

reply from: Shiprahagain

There is a diff in not being Semitic (Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist) and being Pagan in the sense that Wiccans are Pagan. Paganism isn't the oldest religions because if you say all non-semitic religions are Pagan you are talking about a bunch of different religions with different ages. Hinduism is often misunderstood to be Pagan but it is actually monotheistic. Furthermore "shamanism" isn't a religion any more than monotheism or polytheism are religions. There are a range of different religions that use shamans and these culture don't consider one another to be of the same religion. I'll refer you guys to this website to show that many of those religions looped into "paganism" are incredibly diverse with no desire to be related to each other nor paganism. http://www.lelandra.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm Even honest scholarly Wiccans admit they aren't the first religion. Here's an article by a well-informed wiccan. http://wicca.timerift.net/old_religion.shtml
The Really Old Religion
Also known as the "We were here first" theory
Early books (and some modern ones) refer to Wicca as the Old Religion, a religion that survived in secret in Europe through the Christian period. Frequently, the age of that "Old Religion" is stretched to astronomical proportions.
The late Dr. Margaret Murray traced back and saw Witchcraft's origins in Palaeolithic [sic] times: 25,000 years ago. She saw it as a more or less unbroken line through the present, and as a fully organized religion throughout western Europe for centuries before Christianity.1
Unfortunately, the late Dr. Margaret Murray also didn't know what she was talking about. While her theories were once respected, they were completely dismissed decades ago based, among other things, on her complete lack of supporting evidence. (See more on Murray's Unlikely Theories).
Hinduism and Judaism are among the world's oldest religions, and their age can only be measured in a handful of millennia. No religion comes close to being 25,000 years old, for a variety of reasons:
To our knowledge, no culture has survived anything close to 25,000 years. As cultures merge with each other, religion merges with them, and when cultures are overrun or die out, their religion generally follows suit.
Most of that time period existed before the advent of writing. The written word is incredibly valuable in preserving a religious tradition.
Even if a tradition did persevere for tens of thousands of years without the help of writing, we would have no way of knowing about it. Artwork and artifacts can give us glimpses of possible beliefs, but even those are frequently categorized as "possibilities," not facts.
Needs change. There were no cities 25,000 years ago. There was no agriculture. People hunted and gathered in small groups, because small groups were all that could be supported by their lifestyle. As culture evolved, so, presumably, would beliefs. Hunting gods might lose attention as people turned to agricultural gods, for example. The needs and wants of a city are very different from those of a nomadic tribe.
Furthermore, since the advent of writing, there has never been a single religion uniformly practiced across western Europe before Christianity. That is a fact. Each of the cultures dotting that continent possessed their own pantheons, their own stories, their own creation myths and afterlifes. Pick up any book on European mythologies or pre-Christian religions and see for yourself. There are some similarities, the result of occasional interactions between the cultures, but each religion and mythology is its own independent entity. For that matter, you can find similarities between those religions and Christianity too. That does not mean that they are all the same, nor that they all originate from a single common religion for which there is no evidence for.
Moreover, the idea that Wiccans are following ANY pre-Christian religion is in error. Many of us worship old deities, and some of us try to incorporate the flavor of the old rites, but the simple fact is our knowledge of those rites varies from incomplete to extremely sketchy, depending upon the pantheon in question. Even Gerald Gardner acknowledged:
the rituals he received from Old Dorothy's coven were very fragmentary, and in order to make them workable, he had to supplement them with other material.2
That supplemental material came mostly from ceremonial magic sources: The Order of the Golden Dawn, Thelema, Freemasonry, and other occult entities of the 19th and early 20th century. But even the age of those "fragments" is hardly ancient. There just isn't any evidence suggesting the survival of an Old Religion through the Middle Ages. Yes, aspects of the pagan beliefs remained in altered forms - gods became fairies, spirits and saints, for example - but that is not to say the religion itself survived. Yes, people continued to believe in and even practice magic, but the practice of magic does not require the existence of a pagan religion. Indeed, there are records of nuns creating magical amulets invoking Jesus and Mary.
It's like saying anyone who celebrates Christmas (exchanging gifts, getting together with family) must be a Christian. There are millions of people who celebrate the holiday every year without holding religious significance to it. Just because some aspects of a religion survive, does not mean the religion has survived.
These facts do not make our beliefs invalid. They simply make them not ancient.
"Wicca is the world's oldest religion / Wicca is older than Christianity."
The first question I have to ask myself here is why people even find it so gosh-darn important to prove that there religion was here first. What, are only old religions valid? That sort of thinking invalidates the entire point of religious questing. Every religion had to be a new religion at one point.
And if you're one of the people who argues this, don't tell me age doesn't really matter to you. If it didn't matter, you wouldn't bring it up. We're supposed to be tolerant of all other religions. This ill-informed one-upmanship is embarrassing.
Wicca is approximately 60 years old. We have adopted certain aspects of older religions - we even invoke some of their gods - but we are not followers of those religions. Judaism and Christianity share an entire Old Testament, not to mention a supreme being, but they're not the same religion either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Buckland, Raymond. Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft, page 1. Llewellyn Publications, copyright 1975.
2 Julia Phillips, "HISTORY OF WICCA IN ENGLAND: 1939 - present day." Lecture at the Wiccan Conference in Canberra, 1991

reply from: Shiprahagain

Another article by this same Wiccan woman.
The Christian Church
Q: How many Pagans does it take to change a light bulb? A: Six. One to change it and five to sit around and complain that light bulbs never burned out before those damned Christians came along.
Wicca is NOT about confronting or combating Christianity. Rebuking their beliefs or soiling their historical legacy is not our purpose, nor should it be the purpose of any religion. Those who are turning to Wicca simply because they wish to leave Christianity, or they object to Christianity, or they just want to shock their Christian family should look elsewhere. Religion, ANY religion, is about belief, not negating another's belief.
The "We're Better than Them" theory.
Pushing someone down is always easier than lifting yourself up, but it's also childish and shallow. It encourages no deeper understanding of one's own beliefs, but merely supports fragile egos in basic displays of frequently erroneous one-upsmanship. Raymond Buckland stated: "Christianity was a man-made religion. It had not evolved gradually and naturally over thousands of years, as we have seen that the Old Religion did."1 First, as a Wiccan, why should I care about the flaws in another religion? Second, all religions are man-made. At best, they are man's interpretation of divine will, but that still leaves their shaping squarely in the hands of man. Third, Christianity most definitely has evolved. It originated in Judaism, was transformed by a very dynamic catalyst in the form of Jesus, and then continued to develop over the next two millenia. Evolution has created Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox Christians, all of which differ from the Church of the early centuries. Religions that do not evolve go extinct, just like organisms, because they must adapt to their environments.
The Purpose of Christianity or Get Over Yourselves
Some have gone so far as to claim the driving purpose of the development of Christianity was to subjugate women, who in pagan cultures were much more powerful and respected and therefore feared by misogynistic male Churchmen.
Hello. Reality-check time.
The purpose of Christianity was, is, and always will be to honor what its followers believe is the one true God and his son, Jesus Christ. Certainly it was manipulated at times by certain persons, as will be the case in any organization, including Wicca. But the actions of its members are separate from its purpose, and the motives behind the more offensive actions were much more complicated than simply to subjugate women, gain a "religious monopoly" or any other accusation easily thrown. Saying that "our" suffering was the driving force behind the development of an entire religion is extraordinarily egocentric.
The Theft of Pagan Holidays
What I hate about this issue more than anything is that almost invariably there's at least an implication that the Christian holidays aren't valid because they were borrowed, stolen, however you want to describe them. And I will admit to ascribing to this sort of spite once upon a time. I was in college and, having religious issues with my mother, threw out - probably for no particular reason - something about there being no point to Christmas since it wasn't likely when Jesus was born anyway. (The first recorded celebration of Christmas doesn't occur until 325 C.E., which coincides with that of a mystery cult solar deity honored in Rome at the time.)
My mother's response: Does the date matter?
Christmas is a celebration of an event. The day the event happened is inconsequential. And honestly, as someone whose own birthday was constantly interrupted by school concerts and who therefore had to celebrate her birthday on other days, I should have known better. Christmas is about the birth of Jesus, not about December 25. The fact that the Church had to invent a date is not proof that the event did not happen. It simply proves that they did not know when the actual birth was, which shouldn't be surprising as the Bible is rather lacking in specific dates.
That's the last time that particular form of stupidity has come out of my mouth.
The suggestion that the policy of celebrating Christian holidays on the days of pagan ones and building Christian churches on the sites of former pagan temples was meant to trick pagans into Christianity is insulting to everyone involved. Pagan people were not stupid. I just can't envision them nodding their heads like sheep as the Christian priest tells them "Oh, the new building? Never mind that. We just thought the place needed freshening up. Continue to worship as normal. Oh, but your gods now would just to just be called "God". You don't need to bother with all this Zeus and Hera stuff." Or in other words:
We've replaced these people's pagan gods with Folgers Crystals. Let's see if they notice.
Certainly the Christian missionaries were attempting to convert, and certainly the overlap of holidays and locations helped ease the transition, but it was not an overnight process, nor were the formerly pagan communities without a hand in all this. Religion is an evolving thing. Even when new ideas are accepted, old ones are not easily set aside like last week's newspaper, and the Church was wise in recognizing this fact. These people brought their old traditions into the new religion, and the new religion accepted them within limits. Just because people did not leap 100% one day from paganism into Christianity does not mean that they had to be tricked into it.
Instead of thinking of all of Europe as having had the Christian religion forced upon then, perhaps we should consider why Europe so accepted Christianity. Wiccans have this idea that the Christians came in force, tore down the temples, and converted the pagan masses at the point of a sword, and it's just not true. When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, its followers were still in the minority: about 20% in fact. There was no Christian army, just missionaries who had nothing backing them up except their faith. They were trying to save pagan souls. We may see that as a mistaken outlook, but that does not mean their intentions were any less honorable. They preached and hoped people would listen.
You know, like how Wiccans make websites, hoping someone will take them seriously.
Is it so hard to believe that people might have converted because they actually saw merit in the religion? Life was going to hell with the fall of the Roman Empire, and Christianity offered a lot of solace, not to mention an explanation as to why life was sucking so badly. As Christianity continued to gain powerful followers, other important figures started looking toward it as well, if nothing else to win allies.
Only much later did an organized Church, seeking wealthy patrons, approach pagan leaders, knowing that conversion to Christianity would bring large donations to churches and monasteries.
These attempts, however, were peaceful. There were no rampaging Christian armies forcing large-scale conversion. The wars that were fought were over land, not religion, in the first thousand years of Christianity, although pagan kingdoms were a more tempting target since Christians were not supposed to war with Christians. The Crusades, those most famous of Christian holy wars, didn't start until 1076 C.E. and concerned the retaking of the Holy Land, not the conversion of infidels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Buckland, Raymond. Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft, page 3. Llewellyn Publications, 1986.

reply from: AshMarie88

Thank you!
I've often thought about leaving the forum because religion keeps being brought into the debate, all the time. It's really annoying, in my opinion. I'm religious but I like things separated.

reply from: Shiprahagain

I had dropped it and am willing to again if all else will.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Just tell me clearly what the perceived contradiction is...if you can find any clarity.

reply from: bradensmommy

Dude, I replied back to what you said before, just drop it because apparently you don't know what you are saying.
Its called scrolling down and reading instead of skimming words.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

If you are too intellectually lazy to state your case, its best you don't say anything at all, Dudette.
You are clear as mud.

reply from: bradensmommy

Whatever, you can't even see what you posted in the first place. I didn't get your words out of the air. I believe YOU are as clear as mud.
Fine, you want to make a pregnant woman even angrier I will post the WHOLE damn post AGAIN:
This is what you said to me since you are know-all:
This is what I SAID:
Then you decide to act like a moron and totally contradict yourself because you apparently wear a helmet and you don't play football:
(your responses are in bold)
Um...you can be pro-life and be another religion.
You sure can. Are you of another religion?
I'm sorry that your head is full of things like "witches are the devil". I think you need to reread some religious history and maybe you'll open your mind to other things.
Where did that come from? You brought up witches, not me. My mind is open, how about yours?
BTW, it wasn't a TV show it was a horror film (OMG I'm going to hell because I love horror movies! *gasp*!)
Again,where did that come from?
I'm not bashing anyone but the OP needs to stop spamming religious things when not all of us are Christian...period the end.
Ronald's message isn't FOR Christians. That's the whole point!
You don't like me or my religion thats fine but you as well as a few others think that your religion is the right way and other ones are "evil" You are sad and closed minded. AND I have christian friends so don't even give me your crap about how I "hate" Christians because I don't, I just don't like it shoved down my throat.
Did I say I didn't like you? You seem awfully defensive and on the offense, as well. I can't have an opinion on your religion, as I don't know what it is. I'm joyful and open minded. Perhaps your Christian friends need to spend more time with you?
Blessings ALL around.
By saying you are contradicting yourself, if you read your previous post that I decided to quote you'll see why...then you decide to tell me that you can be another religion and be pro-life even though you clearly stated above that Christianity IS pro-life...basically saying that only CHristians are. I'm not going to explain anything else just read the whole thing, I think you can right?

reply from: ChristianSoldier

>>if you read your previous post that I decided to quote you'll see why...
I did. No contradiction there.
>>then you decide to tell me that you can be another religion and be pro-life even though you clearly stated above that Christianity IS pro-life...basically saying that only CHristians are.
That is your incorrect conclusion. The question had been raised as to why a Christian post (the message) on a pro-life forum. Stop being paranoid. You might take a course in civility while you are at it.
Have a nice day.

reply from: bradensmommy

hmm...and you sir, can take a class on scrolling down and reading posts...
Have a great day...

reply from: faithman

Good message. [B]bumpeth

reply from: Shiprahagain

While it is a good message, this is an ABORTION forum, and as the Bible says, there is a time and season for everything and this wasn't the appropriate way of doing things. Now, if we can all get back to abortion...

reply from: bradensmommy

Trust me I was done with it a long time ago but ChristianSoldier decided it was best to bump it up yet again...go figure...
But I agree with you.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Thanks for your help, Bradensmommy.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Try to get your facts straight. I didn't bump the thread up. If it bothers you so much, stop reading and replying. There are plenty of other threads here.
BTW - Jesus loves you.

reply from: bradensmommy

Try to get your facts straight. I didn't bump the thread up. If it bothers you so much, stop reading and replying. There are plenty of other threads here.
BTW - Jesus loves you.
OMG here we go again.
And BTW...Jesus may love you but I think you are an a$$
Thanks and I'm done.....
On to IMPORTANT things.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Try to get your facts straight. I didn't bump the thread up. If it bothers you so much, stop reading and replying. There are plenty of other threads here.
BTW - Jesus loves you.
OMG here we go again.
And BTW...Jesus may love you but I think you are an a$$
Thanks and I'm done.....
On to IMPORTANT things.
That's OK. I love you, too, and will continue to pray that you, too, shall soon see the Light.
Pax

reply from: Ayame

Try to get your facts straight. I didn't bump the thread up. If it bothers you so much, stop reading and replying. There are plenty of other threads here.
BTW - Jesus loves you.
OMG here we go again.
And BTW...Jesus may love you but I think you are an a$$
Thanks and I'm done.....
On to IMPORTANT things.
That's OK. I love you, too, and will continue to pray that you, too, shall soon see the Light.
Pax
She has seen the light, of her OWN choice to whatever she believes, it's presumptuous to assume she hasn't just because why, she doesn't practice YOUR religion?

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Let's just hope the light she's seen isn't an oncoming train.
;-)

reply from: bradensmommy

Is it just me or does this guy EVER shut up?
I'm already having hormonal changes from pregnancy, quitting smoking, and meds I had been taking, he does not want a piece of me...
Seriously...STFU already.

reply from: bradensmommy

Try to get your facts straight. I didn't bump the thread up. If it bothers you so much, stop reading and replying. There are plenty of other threads here.
BTW - Jesus loves you.
OMG here we go again.
And BTW...Jesus may love you but I think you are an a$$
Thanks and I'm done.....
On to IMPORTANT things.
That's OK. I love you, too, and will continue to pray that you, too, shall soon see the Light.
Pax
She has seen the light, of her OWN choice to whatever she believes, it's presumptuous to assume she hasn't just because why, she doesn't practice YOUR religion?
According to him and some other religious fanatics I'm going to their hell which is quite funny considering the fact that I practice Wicca.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Using an acronymn does not disguise your vulgarity.
Is that what practicing Wicca does for you, make you hateful and vulgar? Or, perhaps you just need more practice.
It's OK. I still love you. Jesus loves you, too.
:-)

reply from: bradensmommy

For my sanity and so Ship doesn't kick my butt I'm putting you on ignore so have fun talking to yourself!

reply from: faithman

Really think it funny that loud mouthed, vulgar, hell bound pagans have to get on a thread which discusses christian stuff, then try to censor our speach, and make all kind of ugly statements, when they just as easily could not even look at the thread, much less post on it. They keep talking about ignoring us, but never really seem to getting around to it. Pagans are the real haters, not christians. We don't offer judgment like we have been accused. We offer escape from the judgment to come which can only be found in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. No amount of pagan hate speach can change that.

reply from: AshMarie88

Perhaps the advice that you should get to know her better would come in handy right now...

reply from: bradensmommy

Doubt it, him and faithman have made up their minds to be ignorant. They don't want to get to know anyone outside of their religion. I'd rather not befriend someone who is so bigoted anyway.
But I still love ya Ash, you are amazing!

reply from: Shiprahagain

I appreciate you both being mature enough to stop.

reply from: faithman

Doubt it, him and faithman have made up their minds to be ignorant. They don't want to get to know anyone outside of their religion. I'd rather not befriend someone who is so bigoted anyway.
But I still love ya Ash, you are amazing!
So much for the little loud mouthed hell bound pagan ignoring us. Of course when you are filled with so much hate for God and His children, you have to spew it out somewhere.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Why do you suppose she hates God, faithman? All God has ever offered her is love and eternal life. Its perplexing, isn't it?

reply from: bradensmommy

I appreciate you both being mature enough to stop.
Sometimes I feel ike I'm surrounded by the Christian fanatics from "Saved" Some of them need to open thier minds up more and stop being such hypocrites.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

faithman, do you suppose she can differentiate betwwen a Christian and a "Christian fanatic?" Or, perhaps there is no difference. The only real difference between Christians may be their degree of complacency.
btw - I thought she was all done with this thread....

reply from: faithman

Pagans hate the light, nor come to the light because they love darkness. The light makes manifest that pagan deeds [all of them] are evil. Jesus Christ is the light, and pagans scramble from Him like cock roaches in the kitchen at night when you turn the light on.

reply from: faithman

Christians come in many flavors, tribes and such. So do the pagan wolves in sheeps clothing. There are many christianized pagans who are christian in name only. By the by, poor little pagan haters can't help themselves. I have to admit I do get a kick out of provoking them. They prove themselves to be bald face lyers as evidenced by the continued post despite the statements that they will ignore us. Sniker sniker. Kinda funny, but sad. Sad that they refuse Him who could save them from hell. But they would rather have thier pagan pride and go to hell, rather than surrender to Christ and humble themselves before a mighty God.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Well, at least they are able to discern Divinity amidst the Creation. That's a start.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Bradensmommy agreed to drop this, can you guys take your stuff to pm?

reply from: faithman

whats the fun in that? If she has really dropped it, she won't post here anymore. Of course that would kinda spoil it. Funny to watch her spit out her Christ hating bigotted pagan vinom.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

I'll do you one better. I created a Wiccan forum.
http://www.rei-resource.com/rei-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5182#5182

reply from: laurissamarcotte

whats the fun in that? If she has really dropped it, she won't post here anymore. Of course that would kinda spoil it. Funny to watch her spit out her Christ hating bigotted pagan vinom.
You know, maybe this is WHY some people don't like Christianity- because some Christians absolutely can't tolerate another's religion, and they constantly tell non-Christians that they're going to hell. Let me ask you some questions... Do YOU know her heart through and through? Can you see into her mind? Why don't you just leave it to God to judge whether people go to Heaven or hell? So much for humbling yourself.

reply from: faithman

whats the fun in that? If she has really dropped it, she won't post here anymore. Of course that would kinda spoil it. Funny to watch her spit out her Christ hating bigotted pagan vinom.
You know, maybe this is WHY some people don't like Christianity- because some Christians absolutely can't tolerate another's religion, and they constantly tell non-Christians that they're going to hell. Let me ask you some questions... Do YOU know her heart through and through? Can you see into her mind? Why don't you just leave it to God to judge whether people go to Heaven or hell? So much for humbling yourself.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. By the fruit of their lips you will know them. Yepper, I can say that her pagan heart is on display for all to see. I tolerate other folks religion just fine. If you want to go to hell it's up to you, I can't stop you. It is the job of a christian to tell the pagan world they are going to hell. God has already judged that the whole world is guilty of rebellion, and under the curse of death. The only way of escape is to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. All other religions lead to hell, like it or not.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

Whatever. Keep on being intolerant and cruel. You have a right to freedom of speech, and I can't stop you (because I actually respect other peoples' rights)

reply from: faithman

Whatever. Keep on being intolerant and cruel. You have a right to freedom of speech, and I can't stop you (because I actually respect other peoples' rights)
So do I respect others rights. I have not tried to censor the little christ hating hell bound pagan from spewing out her intolerance of Christ, but she has tried to censor my speach many times. Is even now threatening with reporting me. Shake shake quiver quiver. I'm ssooo scared of the hell bound pagan.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

I don't profess to know anyone's heart. I can only go by what they say.
Waiting until God's judgement is too late, isn't it? The point of Ronald's message is to spread the Good News of the Gospel to the unbeliever so that they shall not perish.
Not all will heed the call.
This thread would have died immediately had the Christian bashers not made such a fuss. As it is, it stays at the top of the list, giving more folks a chance to find the message.
Thanks for the help.

reply from: faithman

I don't profess to know anyone's heart. I can only go by what they say.
Waiting until God's judgement is too late, isn't it? The point of Ronald's message is to spread the Good News of the Gospel to the unbeliever so that they shall not perish.
Not all will heed the call.
This thread would have died immediately had the Christian bashers not made such a fuss. As it is, it stays at the top of the list, giving more folks a chance to find the message.
Thanks for the help.
We always do better bashed. Goes with the territory.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

faithman, if I may make a gentle reminder...
Corinthians 13:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

reply from: prolifegirl80

Wow, just wow....
I had been lurking for a few days and I'm very ashamed of being a Christian. Faithman and Christiansoldier should be very ashamed of themselves. Are they one person talking to each other and agreeing with every word or are they really that prejudice against other people? Has anyone asked them if they ever protested with Fred Phelps and the rest of the looneytoons?
I'm just very disappointed in people like this, it makes me and the rest of the Christian people look very bad.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

You are ashamed to be a Christian? You should be rejoicing. I can't and don't speak for faithman. As you can see, I have suggested he not be harsh.
I am very puzzled that you haven't addressed the unkindness clearly demonstrated against Christians by others on this board and chose this, of all topics in the pro-life forum to be your first post.
hmmm...
Phelps? Is that the Westboro group? It is clear they are a church in name only.

reply from: ProLifeWytch

you talk about hate speech yet you keep saying that all pagans are going to hell, that seems pretty hateful to me, you know nothing about my religion, but yet you feel like you can pass judgement on it. I know Christianity and so I feel like I can post my opinion on it. I have no problem with Christians real Christians that is the ones who don't pass judgement and spew hatred. I believe God gave us all free will to follow what our hearts tell us what is right. I do not believe in a God who would condemn someone to hell just because you call him by a different name. I believe in the trinity mine is just a little different than yours. God, Goddess, & Son. So tell me isn't the only requirement for heaven believing in the Son?

reply from: ChristianSoldier

PLW,
Regarding: "So tell me isn't the only requirement for heaven believing in the Son?"
Will you please define "Son" and your beliefs regarding same?
Thank you.

reply from: Ayame

Great, so I am 18, and I am more mature than some of the people on this forum. You people are despicable, you should be ashamed of yourselfs for saying she is going to hell, for making claims out of something YOU believe. So she does not believe in your religion, get over it. Not everyone is going to go along with what you are, the least you could do is be mature about it.
People like you are the reason why I decide to not have a religion.
And FYI, you cannot make claims about wicca, while knowing nothing about!
Grow up!

reply from: holopaw

Because they tell the truth? If you believe you can be a true Christian and loved by the world, you are mistaken. Christianity predated Political Correctness and will outlive that Satan inspired nonsense.

reply from: holopaw

If you are going to quote Wikipedia, you might as well just tell us what you believe because wikipedia is not considered a valid or reliable source.

reply from: faithman

you talk about hate speech yet you keep saying that all pagans are going to hell, that seems pretty hateful to me, you know nothing about my religion, but yet you feel like you can pass judgement on it. I know Christianity and so I feel like I can post my opinion on it. I have no problem with Christians real Christians that is the ones who don't pass judgement and spew hatred. I believe God gave us all free will to follow what our hearts tell us what is right. I do not believe in a God who would condemn someone to hell just because you call him by a different name. I believe in the trinity mine is just a little different than yours. God, Goddess, & Son. So tell me isn't the only requirement for heaven believing in the Son?
Number one, you worship a god of your own making. That is idolatry. I don't pass judgment on anybody. I merely proclaim the judgements written. The requirement for heaven is not only believe that Jesus is who He says He is, but completely surrendering your life to him as Lord. You can make up all the false religions you want, but they lead to the same hell that all paganism leads to. Anyone without Christ has an evil heart, we were all born with one.

reply from: faithman

Whatever. Keep on being intolerant and cruel. You have a right to freedom of speech, and I can't stop you (because I actually respect other peoples' rights)
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
AAAHHH gorilla gums quotes the bible again. Now if we could just get him to beleave it and forsake the false therory of evolution....

reply from: faithman

What makes you think I know nothing about it? Bunch of folk dance nakid around a boiling pot of hoodoo as they worship nature on their way to hell. Whats there to know?!!

reply from: bradensmommy

Because they tell the truth? If you believe you can be a true Christian and loved by the world, you are mistaken. Christianity predated Political Correctness and will outlive that Satan inspired nonsense.
See and like I told you "Christians" before, you start quoting things that come from MEN'S mouths and not God you need to do your research on the history of RELIGION. You know crap about any religion but your own. You and the rest of the holigans are CLOSED MINDED. Get your head out of your Bibles and learn something for once. And those holigans know exactly who I'm talking about. I don't really care to hear what they say because if I did I wouldn't have them on iggy.

reply from: faithman

Because they tell the truth? If you believe you can be a true Christian and loved by the world, you are mistaken. Christianity predated Political Correctness and will outlive that Satan inspired nonsense.
See and like I told you "Christians" before, you start quoting things that come from MEN'S mouths and not God you need to do your research on the history of RELIGION. You know crap about any religion but your own. You and the rest of the holigans are CLOSED MINDED. Get your head out of your Bibles and learn something for once. And those holigans know exactly who I'm talking about. I don't really care to hear what they say because if I did I wouldn't have them on iggy.
The pagan christ hater post again!!!! Just can't seem to help her little ole hell bound self. how funny!!

reply from: ProLifeWytch

First I want to say thank you for asking without being hateful, now as to answer your question people assume that just because I am pagan I don't believe in Jesus, which is totally wrong see I believe in JC, but I don't believe exactly as most other Christians do. I believe in the Son,who brings life to all, and his father God, but eventhough I believe in the holy spirit I don't believe he is as important as the Mother the Goddess. People often say that my beliefs as far as Christian religions go are closest to Catholics, which I have no idea because I know nothing about that religion, but I also believe the bible is incomplete and has been torn apart by men who were powerful and rewrote the bible to fit thier agenda's. I also believe in a loving God who loves ALL of his children, who won't condemn a person for calling him by a different name or for something as trivial as saying a curse word, and as far as gays well I believe that it is none of my business as to whom a person loves, whether it is right or wrong is up to the powers that be to decide. All I feel that I have to do is live my life and try to do what's right in my heart. Now I know my beliefs may seem strange to most of you, but in my heart this is what I feel.

reply from: ProLifeWytch

What makes you think I know nothing about it? Bunch of folk dance nakid around a boiling pot of hoodoo as they worship nature on their way to hell. Whats there to know?!!
Ok let's just set the record striaght I have never once danced nakEd around anything, see you just go with the steroetypical because you have no idea what you're talking about. And as far as worshipping nature, well I don't "worship" nature I have great respect for nature, and believe that everything was made by God therefor we are all connected to nature and therefor we should respect it, and what in the hell is a boiling pot of hoodoo? the only boiling pot of anything I have ever made is soup.

reply from: bradensmommy

Oh Heather, remind me on Tuesday to go pick up some eye of Newt...I'm almost out!
My NON EXISTANT Cauldron is in need of more blackening too because the fire underneath it seems to keep burning it off.

reply from: faithman

What makes you think I know nothing about it? Bunch of folk dance nakid around a boiling pot of hoodoo as they worship nature on their way to hell. Whats there to know?!!
Ok let's just set the record striaght I have never once danced nakEd around anything, see you just go with the steroetypical because you have no idea what you're talking about. And as far as worshipping nature, well I don't "worship" nature I have great respect for nature, and believe that everything was made by God therefor we are all connected to nature and therefor we should respect it, and what in the hell is a boiling pot of hoodoo? the only boiling pot of anything I have ever made is soup.
Sooo you are the one ignorant of the faith you claim. Sure the other pagans on this site can show you the more exciting way to hell.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

What makes you think I know nothing about it? Bunch of folk dance nakid around a boiling pot of hoodoo as they worship nature on their way to hell. Whats there to know?!!
Ok let's just set the record striaght I have never once danced nakEd around anything, see you just go with the steroetypical because you have no idea what you're talking about. And as far as worshipping nature, well I don't "worship" nature I have great respect for nature, and believe that everything was made by God therefor we are all connected to nature and therefor we should respect it, and what in the hell is a boiling pot of hoodoo? the only boiling pot of anything I have ever made is soup.
Sooo you are the one ignorant of the faith you claim. Sure the other pagans on this site can show you the more exciting way to hell.
Faithman, Pagan isn't just one religion. There may be some kind of Pagan religion that dances around a boiling couldron, but I seriously doubt Wiccan does

reply from: bradensmommy

I seriously think this guy has some mental issues or something. I don't know if he is saying this crap to get people mad at him or he really is this looney.
But then again if I wasn't having sex I'd be as bitter as him.
So excuse me y'all while I go and use my "cauldron"

reply from: ProLifeWytch

What makes you think I know nothing about it? Bunch of folk dance nakid around a boiling pot of hoodoo as they worship nature on their way to hell. Whats there to know?!!
Ok let's just set the record striaght I have never once danced nakEd around anything, see you just go with the steroetypical because you have no idea what you're talking about. And as far as worshipping nature, well I don't "worship" nature I have great respect for nature, and believe that everything was made by God therefor we are all connected to nature and therefor we should respect it, and what in the hell is a boiling pot of hoodoo? the only boiling pot of anything I have ever made is soup.
Sooo you are the one ignorant of the faith you claim. Sure the other pagans on this site can show you the more exciting way to hell.
no I'm just not the stereotype you want me to be.

reply from: faithman

What makes you think I know nothing about it? Bunch of folk dance nakid around a boiling pot of hoodoo as they worship nature on their way to hell. Whats there to know?!!
Ok let's just set the record striaght I have never once danced nakEd around anything, see you just go with the steroetypical because you have no idea what you're talking about. And as far as worshipping nature, well I don't "worship" nature I have great respect for nature, and believe that everything was made by God therefor we are all connected to nature and therefor we should respect it, and what in the hell is a boiling pot of hoodoo? the only boiling pot of anything I have ever made is soup.
Sooo you are the one ignorant of the faith you claim. Sure the other pagans on this site can show you the more exciting way to hell.
no I'm just not the stereotype you want me to be.
i don't want you to be anything but saved and on your way to heaven. Christ is the only way for that to happen.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

First I want to say thank you for asking without being hateful, now as to answer your question people assume that just because I am pagan I don't believe in Jesus, which is totally wrong see I believe in JC, but I don't believe exactly as most other Christians do. I believe in the Son,who brings life to all, and his father God, but eventhough I believe in the holy spirit I don't believe he is as important as the Mother the Goddess. People often say that my beliefs as far as Christian religions go are closest to Catholics, which I have no idea because I know nothing about that religion, but I also believe the bible is incomplete and has been torn apart by men who were powerful and rewrote the bible to fit thier agenda's. I also believe in a loving God who loves ALL of his children, who won't condemn a person for calling him by a different name or for something as trivial as saying a curse word, and as far as gays well I believe that it is none of my business as to whom a person loves, whether it is right or wrong is up to the powers that be to decide. All I feel that I have to do is live my life and try to do what's right in my heart. Now I know my beliefs may seem strange to most of you, but in my heart this is what I feel.
PLW,
I have not addressed anyone here hatefully, nor will I. (a little good natured sarcasm at times, maybe ;-) )
Can we dig a bit deeper? You state: "people assume that just because I am pagan I don't believe in Jesus, which is totally wrong see I believe in JC, but I don't believe exactly as most other Christians do."
You use the word 'other'. Do you consider yourself a Christian, also? You say you believe in JC. Can you expand on that more?
Thanks.
Note to faithman: You have a witnessing style that may be just a tad counter productive, dontcha think?

reply from: ProLifeWytch

First I want to say thank you for asking without being hateful, now as to answer your question people assume that just because I am pagan I don't believe in Jesus, which is totally wrong see I believe in JC, but I don't believe exactly as most other Christians do. I believe in the Son,who brings life to all, and his father God, but eventhough I believe in the holy spirit I don't believe he is as important as the Mother the Goddess. People often say that my beliefs as far as Christian religions go are closest to Catholics, which I have no idea because I know nothing about that religion, but I also believe the bible is incomplete and has been torn apart by men who were powerful and rewrote the bible to fit thier agenda's. I also believe in a loving God who loves ALL of his children, who won't condemn a person for calling him by a different name or for something as trivial as saying a curse word, and as far as gays well I believe that it is none of my business as to whom a person loves, whether it is right or wrong is up to the powers that be to decide. All I feel that I have to do is live my life and try to do what's right in my heart. Now I know my beliefs may seem strange to most of you, but in my heart this is what I feel.
PLW,
I have not addressed anyone here hatefully, nor will I. (a little good natured sarcasm at times, maybe ;-) )
Can we dig a bit deeper? You state: "people assume that just because I am pagan I don't believe in Jesus, which is totally wrong see I believe in JC, but I don't believe exactly as most other Christians do."
You use the word 'other'. Do you consider yourself a Christian, also? You say you believe in JC. Can you expand on that more?
Thanks.
Note to faithman: You have a witnessing style that may be just a tad counter productive, dontcha think?
I believe in Jesus and that he died for us, but some pagans also believe in the Son who brings life to all, but the thing that makes me say I am not Christian is because I also believe in the Goddess the mother of the Son, I pray to her also so I guess that is what makes me pagan. I just know that all of the Christians I have talked to have said because of my belief in the Goddess I can't be Christian. So I guess in my long and around the way answer to the question, I do not consider myself a Christian.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Color me numb, but is the Son someone other than Jesus and, if not, is the Goddess Mary? Is there a pagan "bible" that spells all this out? On what do you base your beliefs? Why is it possible for you to place your faith in these beliefs, but not in the teachings of the Bible, which can be demonstrated in so many ways to be Truth?? Are your beliefs built on as firm a foundation?
Thanks.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

I look forward to any attempt you might make to "demonstrate."
Its already been demonstrated. I'd like to see you demonstrate your beliefs any better.
Here is a good article, with lots of links, for you.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Right back atcha, pal.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

I referred you to an article on the subject of the Bible's truths. I'm not going to recreate it for you here. Read it or don't. I have little idea what you believe, other than you feel it worth your time to try and discredit Christianity. Other than that, as far as I know you could be an agnostic, athiest, pagan, satanist, or just plain disagreeable.
Fear not, Jesus loves you, too and Salvation is just a step away.
P.S. Thanks for helping keep this message at the top!

reply from: faithman

Visited your site. Did you get my e-mails?

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Oddly enough, no. Please try again, maybe I rode the delete button right over them amidst the mass of spam. oops.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

No message is more important than this one, heathenparent.
May God convict you today.

reply from: GodsLaw2Live

Your message is that if you say a meaningful prayer you can be saved right now.
The prayer can only be "meaningful" if one actually repents. John the Baptist said, "bring forth fruits worthy of repentance". God says he doesn't listen to the prayers of sinners. Of Abraham, the father of the faithful, God said, "Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."
You are guilty of deceptive advertising. A person who continues to practice lawlessness is deceived into believing he said the magic words (like abra-ca-dabra). This "big medicine", "magic spell" or "magic potion" has gotten him into the club you say; for you know the magic formula.
You are selling snake oil.

reply from: GodsLaw2Live

I'll give that an AMEN!
I'll also repeat what some of the symbolism of baptism is. The Exodus illustrates how we get from point A to point B (slavery to sin in Eygpt to the Promised Land (the Kingdom)). Due to lack of faith, we turn a short straight journey into a long circuitous one. Paul reminds us that the Israelites were baptized when they went through the Red Sea; the cloud above them and water on each side of them formed a sort of watery grave.
Baptism is supppose to be a complete break with the past. You are not to return to slavery to sin (Eqypt). You bury the former man or lifestyle. You come out of the waters to live a new life. You move towards the Kingdom (Promised Land). You live lawfully in obedience to God rather than continuing in lawlessness.
Jesus is our example. We are commanded to walk even as he walked. He is the first of the firstfruits. If we desire to be among the firstfruits of harvest, we must follow the path laid out by Jesus.

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Ronald's message is hardly snake oil. Yes, repentance is required.
note: concernedparent, you are in no position to AMEN anything, heathen.
The good news it is not to late for YOU to repent of YOUR sins and receive life everlasting.
(I'll pray you aren't as obnoxious and argumentative through all eternity as you are in this life. )

reply from: ChristianSoldier

Well, part of the problem is the forum medium. Posts lack the benefit of hearing voice inflections and the printed word comes across flatter and harsher than intended.
I apologize. I don't agree with much of your outlook, but I don't wish to offend you, beyond good natured banter.
I do understand your right to whatever religious convictions you have, but I do not understand why you go to such great lengths to undermine others. You seem to have spent a good deal of time putting together sources that attack and deny judeo/christian beliefs. But, whatever floats your boat.
It is only because of my beliefs that I would encourage you to accept that which I believe will save you from an eternal world of hurt.
Again, I apologize.
Peace.

reply from: coco

I had an "awaking" moment I used to take care of a disabled women and she metioned that this country is turning "christain" and I didnt care about that kind of stuff and "I asked her is that bad??" she said "yea, not everyone in this country is christian, I am jewish and I shouldnt impose my beliefs that are not like mine, neither should they." And ever since then I see her point, she really opened my eyes with that simple comment!! I just think that we should respect people religion as long as it doesnt preach hatred and demise of others.

reply from: tabithamarcotte

Doesn't anyone think that this topic has gone a little too far...? This guy was soliciting or whatever, he's been reported and that's pretty much the end of the story. Why are we still arguing over this if I may ask? Christians are not businessmen who want to use every opportunity to advertise, and non-Christians are not evil. To make a blunt suggestion, perhaps we should get over ourselves and stop bickering like an old married couple and focus on what this forum is about....anyone agree???


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