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Questions for coco...

by: AshMarie88

You say you're pro-life, so here are a few questions for you:
1. Some "pro-lifers" make exceptions for abortion. Do you make any exceptions? Do you feel abortion is justified in any cases?
2. Do you think that if abortion stopped altogether, and there were no more aborted children to experiment on, that abortion would be justified only for the purpose of using those dead kids as test experiments?
3. Since LIVING adult stem cells and cord blood tissue work a whole lot better in curing diseases, why should we keep using the DEAD cells of a dead fetus that obviously doesn't help in curing diseases?
If anyone else has anything to add... go ahead.

reply from: coco

do I think abortions are wrong YES
do i think they should be stopped YES
Your 3rd question cannot be proven YET they have not proved which cells work best because they dont have the money to do so that is why congress is voting to pass the bill right now. What you have to understand is the scentific community heavily relies on goverment grants to aid in studies so if they dont have the dollars they have limited reaserch capablity. what you have to understand is that the goverment hands out millions and millions of dollars to reaserch from cow farts (methaine gas) to aids research.I think they should explore ALL options including embryonic,fetal,adult and other options to see what works best and in turn help cure ailments and dieseases.

reply from: AshMarie88

Coco... Read the first 2 again. I didn't ask "Are they wrong" or "should they be stopped".

reply from: coco

do i think they are wrong Yes to but you or i or the government will NOT stop them from happening PERIOD!!!

reply from: coco

Abortions are never justified but sadily they occur

reply from: coco

what does that mean?? i am not up with computer lingo

reply from: AshMarie88

It's a face. Eyes and mouth. >>> -_-

reply from: holopaw

The govt. can't stop rape, murder, drug usage, blackmail, etc. Doesn't mean they should be allowed to be legal.

reply from: coco

that is the point since those actions are illegal and that is doesnt make it right just like why is bill gate worth 50 billion dollars and there are veterans that have no health insurence,or a place to live but Mr.gates gets all the taxbreaks, and that practice is legal

reply from: coco

people are going to do what they want anyway thier may be some consequnces that may divert the mass but thier will be a few that will go and do horriable things.

reply from: Tam

Yes, even if abortion is illegal, some sick women will try to kill their kids anyway. But those women and kids need help, not an enabler.

reply from: coco

what would be the help that you recomend??

reply from: Shiprahagain

http://www.abortionalternatives.com/ In a 1994 article in Reader's Digest, author Mary Cunningham Agee reported that in interviews with women who had undergone an abortion, 91% said they would have continued the pregnancy if support had been available.

reply from: coco

what kind of support would you personally see fit??

reply from: Shiprahagain

All those options. I want girls to have as many choices as possible. It's about what's best for THEM not ME.

reply from: coco

with the abortion debate and say they hypothiticly made it illegal again whould you be in support of rasied taxes because some young women will need financial help??

reply from: coco

see if you cannot tell i a belive that all people should have free education including college, free healthcare, and if they are working to improve thier situation financial assistance if needed as long as the go to college but some do not think like us so i agree with you wow who would have thought

reply from: Shiprahagain

I didn't say all that. I believe that if a baby has needs that need to be met we should care for them because that baby has no means to care for itself. I don't think that someone else automatically has the right to use money I earned for their education, etc. Still, whether or not someone believes in radical financial support for all someone else's needs has no bearing on whether or not the person should be allowed to live.

reply from: coco

but she is going to need all of that because she is not financially set so if you stop all abortions from happening that is whats going to be needed

reply from: Shiprahagain

You don't need college to raise a kid. Your words are an insult to all those who raise kids without college.

reply from: coco

Times are diffrent now from when the babyboomers entered the workforce i dont know how old you are but i am 26 living outside of chicago and you cannot find a great job with health benifits,retierment plan, stock options and good pay to support your family why do you think that people are scrapping to get by with high gas,food,and medicine. if you are not going to college you are screwed because you are MOST likely not going to be able to survive on a highschool education if you go to trade school/college you have a better chance to just make ends meet.

reply from: Shiprahagain

I know people raising kids without college degrees. If you think that's undoable, you need to meet more people outside of your social circle.

reply from: coco

yea my mom is one of those people and so was my grandmother(3rd grade education) and grandfather( 1st grade education) and they have and had a financially stressful life. I dont want that for myself or my children so that is why i stress education and so do the majority of society.

reply from: Shiprahagain

You don't get a free education because you think you shouldn't have "financial stress." My tax dollars that I work for aren't to support your education. If you want an education to avoid stress, you work hard and pay for it yourself. Talk about entitlement!

reply from: coco

so what should your tax dollars go to??

reply from: Shiprahagain

It should go to helping some impoverished baby whose mom pumped her full of crack and is now about to die.

reply from: coco

exactly what food, healthcare clothes what?? hate to tell you this but if you dont educate that crack baby then it will be dependant on your tax dollars for the rest of the childs life

reply from: Shiprahagain

People donate food and clothes -- you'd know that if you explored prolife crisis pregnancy centers. As for college, the baby can work and get a job.

reply from: coco

people do not donate that much and the child is going to become a paid slave working for $5.15 an hour when gas is 3.20 a gallon and a pound of chicken breast cost $7-8 dollars and she has to feed at least one if not 2 kids and keeps the cycle going with her children. I think you hinted that you are still in high school if i am correct you need to be out of your parents house and off thier financial cover to know what i am talking about.

reply from: Shiprahagain

You don't know what people donate, as you haven't done the research. I'll be a sophomore in college this fall. You seem to be missing the point -- my job isn't to keep the child out of a low paying job -- it's HER responsibility to better herself. You really condescend to the poor when you insist others care for them.

reply from: coco

do you remember when jesus said something to the effect of i can fish for him and he will eat for a day but i can teach him how to fish and he can eat for a lifetime kind of like that if you give them education they dont have to stay on aid forever so you are ok with giving your money to wealthy but those that do really need it? have you ever heard of corperate wellfare that is my money going to billionars and that pisses me off i would rather give it to a child that was not planned and the girl steped up and did what she should and takes care of her child has a job and goes to school or would you support paris hilton who has really no talent and takes your tax dollars because she gets tax write-offs to fly on her private jet??

reply from: Shiprahagain

Coco, that kid has the responsibilty to get a job and pay for her OWN education. Why should I work for her education and pay for it with my tax money. Let her pay for it. She can work just like me.
I'm not giving money to the wealthy. When you get a tax cut that's not the gov't giving somebody money, that's the gov't allowing someone to keep their money.

reply from: coco

ie you are paying for it because they require you to pay more in taxes

reply from: Hereforareason

"Times are diffrent now from when the babyboomers entered the workforce i dont know how old you are but i am 26 living outside of chicago and you cannot find a great job with health benifits,retierment plan, stock options and good pay to support your family why do you think that people are scrapping to get by with high gas,food,and medicine. if you are not going to college you are screwed because you are MOST likely not going to be able to survive on a highschool education if you go to trade school/college you have a better chance to just make ends meet."
Hm..A couple people I know right now are unable to get jobs becuase they have college degrees and are "over qualified".
uh, coco, what verse is that?
Where approximatly is it found ifyou can't remember the verse.
Amber

reply from: coco

I was a work-study student for indiana university sociology department and had a professor that had a masters in sociology and was either underqualified or overqualified so she is currently going for her doctrines so yea i am not saying everyone that goes to college finds a job but guess what you have a better chance of finding a good job with a college degree than without one.

reply from: coco

do you read the bible hereforareason??

reply from: Shiprahagain

That's not how it works. Them getting to keep their money doesn't mean I have to pay more. Actually, the same people who want them to pay more want people at all levels to pay more as well. Conservatives lean towards flatter taxes that lower tax levels for EVERYBODY.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Hee hee. Hereforareason, I didn't even realize she called a popular saying a saying of Jesus! ROFL.

reply from: coco

oh so now you get an anology that you can understand im glad youunderstand that now

reply from: coco

i am glad you understood that analogy so you understand my point

reply from: Shiprahagain

It only looks worse when you try to play off your lack of Biblical knowledge as an analogy.
You seem like a prochoicer masquerading as a prolifer. Mainly because you don't want to talk about abortion but taxes, religion, politics, etc. It's like you think you can try to trap prolifers into saying something devoid of compassion to make us look bad. Did you actually come here, as a prolifer, to fight for the lives of the unborn? If not, what's your purpose here?

reply from: coco

I have biblical knowledge my mother took me too a church 3 times a week i never said i didnt i said i dont believe in the bible. and are you mad because i provked your thought because you didnt think further. I (once again am pro life) but i also understand what is going to happen if the abortions stop what a financial cost will take on american tax payers and like i said i am all for getting 16 year old girls that need to go to college to have a better life for her and all her future children and what its going to take to keep that baby in perfect health not treated like some 2nd class citizen so before you call yourself prolife you need to think of all the senerios that can occur like i said i am for empowering women with knowledge and education provides that power

reply from: coco

i was a mentor and tutor for troubled teens and seen this stuff first hand i am not trying to be sarcastic but what trial have you experinced??

reply from: Shiprahagain

For one, my grandmother is fighting brain cancer right now.

reply from: Shiprahagain

But not empowering fathers? They don't need your power. They can fight for themselves. You only stifle them when you give hand outs. Trust me, my dad escaped poverty.

reply from: coco

your right impower people but women are the ones that are 70% of the time left with the children and often having a financial burden and the father only has to pay 200 dollars a month if that. Do you know what daycare costs??

reply from: Shiprahagain

That doesn't make it my responsibility. It's not my job to work to pay for someone else's day care fees. It's their responsibility.

reply from: coco

my fiancee who i have been with for 10 years is a former pill addict, i was a dropout, my parents had a divorce i dont consider myself having a father cause he basiclly left me at the age of 13, my moms dad has cancer, parkinsons,alzhemiers,diabites. my moms mother has parkinsons,a blood disorder. my father dad had skin cancer. I had a cancer scare and currently having kidney problems, im a student at indiana universtiy,work and a mom all at the sametime.oh and my children both have asthma. so life has thrown me some curves the reason why i shared this because in my young life (im 25 going to be 26)i have had and currently have hardships as does everyone else but out of my hardships i have learn to be compasonate so i know first hand how it feels when abortion is not an option and it shouldnt be but you have to take care of your children and unfortuneatly love doesnt pay the bills so education has helped me and i feel that i am smarter and less vulnerable do to my life obsticals and my education

reply from: coco

but ansewr my question how much do you think it is for 2 children ages 4&6 to go to daycare?

reply from: Shiprahagain

Coco, I'm sorry you've been through so much, but that doesn't make your life another person's responsibility. Your life is your own responsibility.
You chose a fiance who is a former addict.
You also chose to have children (without a husband?)
Now you have to be responsible for those choices. It's not somebody else's duty. It's your own. I didn't choose your life's path? Why should I have to fund it?

reply from: coco

I was not asking to have aa pity party i am saying all my trumhs have made me a stronger person if i had not gone threw that i would not understand i think i was put here to do social service work because of these things i have a compassion side that others dont understand unless you have been their and sounds like you never have so you wont understand and i dont have you paying for me I PAY FOR MYSELF AND MY CHILDREN but then again my mom and fiancee are my rock but some girls dont have that. so do you want uneducated people that have no health insurence i thought that was not humane

reply from: coco

did i not mention that i take and took responiblity for my actions if i didnt i would have had an abortion

reply from: coco

are you saying i should have had an abortions because i was not married?? i thought you were against it and maybe i dont want to be married am i wrong are are you implying that i need to live up to your standards??

reply from: Shiprahagain

If you can find where I said I didn't want uneducated people to have health insurance quote me. My grandfather, who had to leave school in the 2nd grade, has health insurance. He started a business. You want to give people free stuff, I want to help them to help themselves. You would be a lot more credible talking about your compassionate side if you didn't support research dependent upon the bodies of murdered kids.
Don't assume I haven't known suffering -- it's because I have that I know hand outs don't work.
Besides, i have no reason to believe any of this is true -- after all, it could be a psychological experiement right?

reply from: coco

what exact part of the country do you live is it a big city small city rural??

reply from: Shiprahagain

No point in talking to trolls.
For those unaware of her trollhood, (she admits that all the stuff she says about herself may be a lie) see the Hey, 1003 thread.

reply from: coco

i said maybe maybe not i like for people to question themselves and thier belifs it makes you think and the you learn more about a topic so you dont sound dumb

reply from: AshMarie88

If abortions ever stop completely, that'd be great.
You shouldn't complain if they ever do stop...

reply from: Virginia

"That doesn't make it my responsibility. It's not my job to work to pay for someone else's day care fees. It's their responsibility."
But it's your responsibility to force them to have children..and when they can't pay for food, daycare, or much else, you can just say "Hey! My work here is done!"
Great, great.

reply from: coco

Thank you virgina at least you see my point you want them here and then they do what do you know how much daycare is $270 a week for my 2 children to go and you are saying that a mother that works a $5.15 cent job could pay $270.00 a week, go and provide a nurishing meal, and be able to spend QUALITY time with her children. I THINK NOT!!! THEY NEEED COLLEGE TO SURVIVE AND YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR CHILDREN FOR YEARS BUT AT LEAST SHE SAVED THE BABY!!

reply from: coco

I am glad you agree tam that is going to be needed

reply from: Tam

Not whatsoever. No one is trying to force someone else to have a child--the point is that once she HAS a child, she shouldn't be allowed to just KILL that child.
Get it??

reply from: coco

I think virgina was responding in that way because i had mention that if abortions had to be legally stopped how would the children survive

reply from: galen

gee birth controll and abstinence would solve 99% of all the hardships that are experienced by people who can not "afford" thier children. Adoption would cover the other 1 %... so why kill them before birth?
Mary

reply from: coco

unfortunatly we dont live in utopia were everyone follows abstanice but if we did i would totally agree with you

reply from: galen

no we don't but why blame and kill the fetus for the sins of its parents... why not instead make people take responsibility for thier actions.
mary

reply from: Virginia

No...you're forcing someone to birth a child. Period.

reply from: galen

The actions of the parent/s created that child. by the time the woman has discovered she is pregnant.. usually her 1st missed period, there is strong proof that the child can react to pain and several other stimuli. it must be a fearful experience to be sucked apart. Why should that child go through a mutilation and death just so the person whose mistake they were can take it easy? Sorry, the fetus did not sponantiously generate. Why should the parent / s not shoulder the responsibility of thier actions. if they had robbed a store they would. or passed a bad check? or murdered someone?
BTW my sister is a single mom who has 2 kids and pays about 1000.00 per month for daycare, not to mention food clothing rent etc. and she gets no assistance. She is in a dta entry type job. it isn't even considered skilled work. So do not tell me that there is no way to provide for these kids.
i place new mom's woth GEDs in new jobs every week. these women never go on assistance once they leave our shelter.
when they feel that they can't or won't handle it we help them to adopt the children out.
giving borth is NOT the trauma that some people make it out to be.
Growing up seems to be much harder for them
mary

reply from: coco

were do you live were a person could make a good living on a ged?? i live by a big city and those people have no better jobs working at mcdonalds or having a telemarketing job that at best pays $8.00 to start EDUCATION IS KEY TO HELP CHILDREN HAVE THIER PARENTS. YOU PROBABLY PLACE THEM IN JOBS WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE JOBS MOSTLIKELY JOBS WITH NO PAY WHY ARE PEOPLE SO AGAINST COLLEGE???

reply from: galen

not against college.... your post is VERY confusing. maybe you should go.
i am against people who think that people with anything less than a degree can raise a child sucessfully. My sister has 2 degrees and she could not find a job in either one of them 8 years wasted? maybe.
i live in a mederate sized city in the midwest area. we routinely place women in data entry and factory machienist postitions that pay upwards of 18.00 an hour with medical dental and eyecare benefits. it may take several months of looking but the jobs are there to be found. many women leave the state to go to the new workplace. They also know when they leave us that in order to keep thier job they have to put in the effort. This is not miccy D's and the boss expects to be given a responsible worker.
most entry level positions out in the workplace these days do NOT require a college degree, they do require persiverence and a lot of time the first 2 years. Daycare is expensive but necessary. Its the quality of the time spent with a child not necessarily the quantity that lets the child know they a re loved and cared for. ALL of the above things are hard work. But IMHO you get out of this world what you put into it.
Mary

reply from: coco

this is not the same area as the baby boomers you cannot find a job the day you lost one why is their downsizing and jobs going to prisoners and people that are not leaving in this country but you probably think that is o.k. i am not saying people whit college find jobs but it is easier to find one with it. sadilly even people with college degrees cant find jobs but thier is a better chance of you finding a job that could sustain your family if you have one. i never said you have to have a degree to raise a child i said if you want to escape the life of having a high school diploma and working to jobs as a single parent and not having time with your child cause you have to work another job. that what my generation is facing around the chicagoland area you or your family can bearly make ends meet and inturn the children get into trouble. my mother or father didnt have college when they had me and i think my mom did the best she could but she struggled financially. how often do those machinist jobs come about?? and if they are so easy to aquire why is thier so many out of work??

reply from: Shiprahagain

When someone chooses to have a child, yes I can help them get to the point where they can take care of themselves, but I don't need to take care of them for the person. Why should I, who abstained, have to pay the daycare of someone who chose to have sex? If you want to live independantly of my beliefs, also live independently of my money. My job is not to keep people from hard work or stress. If you make poor choices you're going to have a hard life, you may have to make min wage or work two jobs. Hard work isn't a human rights abuse. With choice comes consequences, and with consequences come responsibiity. And your and Virginia's attitudes are an insult to the refugees, immigrants, janitors, housekeepers, etc. I know who wouldn't dream of taking gov't help. If someone can leave revolution in Sudan and make it on their own why do you need a handout?

reply from: Tam

For more on that subject (an entire rant, actually), see my post in the "South Dakota" thread.

reply from: Tam

Virginia, do you understand what it means to force someone to do something? No one has a gun to the head of a pregnant woman, saying, "You must give birth!" Know why? Because it's wholly unnecessary. She will give birth with or without coercion or force. It would be as silly as trying to force someone with a lungful of air to exhale. No force is required--it will happen on its own, guaranteed.
When you say "forcing someone to birth a child" you are using a euphemism for "legally forbidding someone from killing her unborn child." Whether or not someone should have the legal ability to kill her unborn child is a matter of opinion. We obviously disagree on that issue. But don't try to twist it into a question of forcing someone to give birth--that is impossible. Labor will begin when the bodies of mother and child make labor begin, and no gun to her head will accelerate or slow that process. I could no more force someone to give birth than I could force her NOT to give birth after she'd gone into labor. Nature will take its course--unless you hire an assassin aka abortionist to kill the child before birth can take place.

reply from: Tam

Do you mean "can't" there?

reply from: yoda

Sadly that is true. Virginia won't say what she actually means, so she must "euphemize" it to make it sound better.
She'd probably be embarrassed to say "Let them kill their babies if they want to!", even thought that's exactly what she means.
Probabykilling advocates carry an awful burden. They have to support the killing of babies while trying not to look like they are supporting the killing of babies. Bummer!

reply from: lovingmommyof2

I live in a large city and at the age of 19 my husband and I found out we were going to have a baby. I hadn't finished high school and we divorced shortly after my daughter was born. He didn't want to be a father and left us and never paid child support. I went back to night school to get my high school diploma, I got it in 2002. I with only a high school diploma got a job as a retail manager making 34,000 a year. Day care was $25.00 a day and my daughter has epilepsy so medical bills were high. I as a single mother with only a high school diploma took care of myself and daughter.
I met and married my daughter's stepdad when I was 23 in 2003. We have a daughter together that was born in 2004 and I have become a stay at home mom. My husband does not have a high school diploma, and yet we have a home, food, everything our two children need and most of what they want.
It is hard at times but for the most part we are able to take care of everything that comes up quickly. We even put $100.00 a month in to each childs saving acount to help with college.
People do need help getting on their feet after having a child, foods stamps for a SHORT while perhaps, but there is no immediate need for free college.
Everyone endures hardships it is what makes us who we are and teaches us to grow. People are responsible for their own lives path.
I believe that if abortions were to become illegal that people would be more careful because their quick fix would be gone. We are using abortion as a crutch and that is not fair to the babies that are murdered because their parents don't want to take responsibility.

reply from: coco

you proved my point you still needed assistance for a period of time some on this board feel that thier tax money should aid people.

reply from: coco

should not aid people

reply from: Shiprahagain

Lovingmommy, You are so brave and self-sufficient. You are a real role model for your daughters, and your words are so inspiring.

reply from: coco

and now it is cheaper to live on one income than to pay daycare costs. see but you have a partner some do not so they overqualify for aid and have to take on 2 jobs and bearly see thier children you are one of the lucky

reply from: Shiprahagain

We've only said people should be as self-sufficient as possible. You cannot quote one person who says that aid should point blank not be given.

reply from: coco

i agree but sometimes people need extra help because of age, maturity level,some may not have support of thier families,friends etc.. so they need a little more help than others. most pre-teen and teen moms need help to get themselves establish with good mental and physical health so the children do not suffer.

reply from: lovingmommyof2

I was not trying to help you prove any point. I was saying that people can make it if they try. Assistance I do feel is needed for a SHORT period of time. If a woman decides to keep her baby I have no problem with my husbands tax money buying food for the baby and the babies mom so they can be healthy. I however, do not think we should be responsible to send the baby through college.
I also was not saying it is cheaper to live on one income as opposed to paying child care. I was pointing out the fact that my husband does not have a high school diploma yet he has managed to find and hold a great paying job that enables him to support our family. We actually had more money when I was working but we decided it would be more beneficial for me to raise our children as opposed to having strangers raise our children just so we could have extra cash.
I do have a partner now, but I raised my daughter on my own for 3 years with only a high school diploma before I remarried.

reply from: lovingmommyof2

Shiprah, thank you for always being so kind. You have an understanding and caring soul. I am glad we are on the same side (the right side) trying to help the unborn.

reply from: Tam

I agree. Food, shelter, health care, and basic education are requirements--college is optional and should not be guaranteed at the expense of others. Like you said, I have no problem with tax money buying food--but college is a bit much!
I think the whole "but if you don't go to college, you're just hosed!" attitude is a strawman. Like, if we can't send every child to college, we should kill them in the womb. That's ridiculous, but I think that's somewhat the point that is being driven at there.
Some people feel we should end abortion AFTER we solve all the problems in the world and make sure everyone gets a Ph.D. and a facelift. That's not realistic whatsoever. But if making sure every child has food and shelter and clothing and health care is unrealistic--we'd damn well better make it realistic! Because those kids cannot be thrown to the wolves of abortion, poverty, malnutrition, etc.

reply from: coco

an 11 yearold mother needs education and should aim to go to college. what does your husband do if you dont mind me asking??

reply from: Tam

Actually, I do mind your asking--I don't share that level of personal detail on this forum.
However, your inquiry prompts the following questions:
1) Why are you asking about my husband rather than about me or both of us?
2) I don't recall mentioning him lately--where'd you notice that I am married?
3) What possible relevance does my husband's job have to this issue? This is not about me, it is about the society as a whole.
4) Do you believe that if the state cannot or does not provide free college for a mother, she should be permitted to kill her baby?
Thanks.

reply from: galen

as long as you continue to educate yourself in this lifetime college is over rated.
Welcome Lovingmommy..nice to see a clear head.
Seems that coco could use a few classes her/himself and maybe he/she would be easier to understand.
It still does not get you a free pass to kill your kids if you do not yet have an education. Education in this country is free, and even children from the worst ghettos make it into college. i also know a few really rich kids who never went to college or recieved any type of degree and are making it just fine today.
As far as where the jobs are... just about every state in the union. you just have to keep looking and applying... this is not a one shot and you have your dream job world. you have to WORK for it... that is why they call them jobs and not hobbies.
Mary

reply from: Shiprahagain

Thank you, Galen. My great-grandfather, an entrepreneur, attended only the first and second grades. My grandfather, also an entrepreneur, dropped out of school in the tenth grade to pick sugarcane. He is also fluent in 8 languages- no one I know with any college degree can do that. My great-grandmother, whom I'm not sure even went to school because she had to pick cotton as a sharecropper at a very early age was a gifted piano teacher. I could tell you about more people, but why? Roy Sesana, leader of the Bushman, has won the Alternative Nobel Prize (the Right Livelihood Award) and he cannot read or write -- books that is -- he is very clear about the fact that his people can read natural signs fluently. I know a boy who was in college with me who just graduated who is one of 11 kids, had an absentee father, and whose mom started asking him to help out with family expenses in the third grade -- still he made it -- and not through welfare. His story is NOT uncommon. There are a million ways to get wisdom and to become prosperous through that wisdom.

reply from: Tam

Just wondering--which 8 languages does your grandfather speak? He sounds like a remarkable man.

reply from: lovingmommyof2

Sorry Tam I brought up the fact that my husband didn't finish high school and is working and supporting our family as a reply to Coco's abort or pay for college opinion. I beleive Coco was asking what my husband does because of that. I wont go into detail but he works for an office company.

reply from: faithman

gosh, why should we stop with womb children if killing the unwanted is the answere? Stuck on welfare? Kill um. mentally challenged? Kill um! To sick? Kill um!
zieg hial yall

reply from: Shiprahagain

Let's see, I'm not sure of all of them but English, Spanish, French, Latin, and Creole -- which is a mix of English, Spanish, French, West African languages, are the ones I know off the top of my head.
Thanks for the compliment -- he really is nicest man -- and a stellar autodidactic.

reply from: coco

Yes i was talking to loving and just wondering how does he spend time with the kids?? most people i know if they have a spouse at home have to have 2 jobs to support the family.
http://www.thinkcollegeearly.org/benefits/benefit.htm

reply from: coco

this is from a site that some of may consider to be not as biased
http://www.mbbc.edu/page.aspx?m=1373

reply from: coco

http://www.litwomen.org/tca/tca19_p9Paulino.pdf#search=

reply from: coco

galen you said you know some people that didnt go to college and were"fine" i bet because they always have mommy and dads money to bail them out like you said their called jobs not hobbies you have to apply diffrent places well here is your answer from a source you may trust

reply from: coco

http://www.mbbc.edu/page.aspx?m=1373
sounds like someone should also take classes GALEN!!
Hey, here is a start

reply from: Shiprahagain

You back off of Galen. Those who value education can work and get it for themselves.

reply from: coco

back off?? I did not know i was on. I guess i proved my point

reply from: coco

that baptist website worked I knew it would

reply from: 1003

galen... is an intellectual juggernaut. i wouldn't want to butt heads with her. she's no hawking... but she holds her ground pretty well... if she could dual-wield a staff and a longsword, i'd say she can take gandalf....

reply from: 1003

1003
Executive Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 04/26/2006
Average Posts per Day: 3.08
coco
Executive Member
Posts: 208
Joined: 07/16/2006
Average Posts per Day: 41.6
what the heck is that....

reply from: AshMarie88

That means you're an executive member, you've posted 266 times, you joined the 26th of April, and on a daily average you post almost 4 times.

reply from: 1003

i'm meaning in comparison to coco
w
t
f.

reply from: coco

so anyone going to college???

reply from: AshMarie88

I don't see how yours compares to his...

reply from: AshMarie88

I'm not yet. Next year I will be.

reply from: Shiprahagain

I'll be a sophomore in college in the fall. Still, this has nothing to do with abortion...

reply from: 1003

i am... i don't like to give that kind of info out, though... major and all that... i was on a forum once... and some idiot threatened to tell my prof that i was posting stuff that she found offensive... and it was like "whatev. why would he care?"

reply from: coco

whats your major ship?? and a little friendly coversation doesnt hurt
CHILL

reply from: 1003

ash, coco's posts per day are off teh HOOK.over 11 times mine...

reply from: AshMarie88

That's because he posts A LOT in a day and he just joined a few days ago.

reply from: coco

I find this form intresting,and im off of school

reply from: coco

why would someone threated to tell your professor?? is free thinking not allowed in your school?

reply from: 1003

major? year? you have AIM or Y!IM? irc?

reply from: Shiprahagain

Thanks for that character reference.

reply from: 1003

my college is chill about it. but that idiot at the forum apparently wasn't....
man... i don't think i support Y!IM... pm me your screen name, though. see what i can do...

reply from: coco

what does pm mean im not really computer lingo literate

reply from: coco

you pm me something wont let me post a pm

reply from: Shiprahagain

If your college is so "chill" why are you afraid to give out further info. Your story isn't adding up.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave...

reply from: holopaw

That's because he posts A LOT in a day and he just joined a few days ago.
Coco is a she and she does post a lot!

reply from: holopaw

If your college is so "chill" why are you afraid to give out further info. Your story isn't adding up.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave...
Most colleges are pro-abortion. UF is

reply from: Shiprahagain

Mine, too. What drives me really crazy is that the on campus health center is really biased. They are totally resistent to any literature that's not pro-choice. And they have the support of the Women's and Gender studies professors.

reply from: V

Coco, I am in college I have my masters degree in law and am working on my doc. I do agree with you that the majority of the time college is the only way to get ahead. I do not agree with your thinking that if someone does not go to college that they will never make a good lives for themselves.
I came from a great home both of my parents have college degrees and great paying jobs. It is their money though I am paying for college myself so I really have no benefits over my classmates whos parents did not go to college.
We all are working to pay for school and books ourselves.
Do you really think that not being able to send someone through college justifies killing them in the womb?

reply from: lovingmommyof2

Coco I saw you asked how my husband spends time with the kids. He goes to work every morning at 7 and gets off at 4:30. He is home everynight by 5 to spend time with the family and have dinner with us. People do need 2 jobs if they are working mimimum wage, which is sad. If you stick with a job instead of always trying to find something better your pay will go up. He is 7 years older than me so he has been at his job for awhile and he brings home around 3k a month after taxes. People can make it without college if they have a passion to get ahead. You can be intellegent and learn your trade through on the job experience.

reply from: coco

when did i say it is ok to kill my point I AM AGAINST ABORTION!!!
My point is that if the government is going to make abortions illegal be prepared to help out these women financially a 12 year old pregnant mom cannot work, her parents maybe living under the poverty line and can bearly hold the families financies together. I wouldnt mind MY taxes going up,but other pro-lifers mind people want the abortions to stop but do not want to pay for people like this girl. And as for the college thing it is very important, you can make a life with out one but with outsourcing and jobs being cut left and right you should have a saftey net to fall on and college should be the saftey net.

reply from: coco

http://www.elizabethbauchner.info/columns/welfare.html

reply from: Shiprahagain

Coco, no one is saying that college cannot make life easier. We are merely saying that it isn't brutal to end abortion without paying the mom's and baby's college tuition. I notice you leave out the dad -- wouldn't college help even non-custodial parents with child support? Besides, doesn't an impoverished 12 year old non-mother also need college? Should she not get free tuition b/c she's not pregnant? The thing about college is people should have enough welfare to get them the job skills they need to work and pay for college should they choose it. If they want college, great, but its their responsibility. I think people should abstain until marriage -- but people don't want my opinion in the matter. Fine, so if you get pregnant and have to work two jobs -- don't ask for my money to go to college. Don't be a hypocrite about it.
Whether or not we pay someone's college tuition has no relevance to their right to life. Someone's life isn't worthless or even ruined by not going to college. Only 1/3 of Americans have a college degree, and they're doing just fine.

reply from: Virginia

"Only 1/3 of Americans have a college degree, and they're doing just fine."
I suggest you check with the people you're speaking for before you make such a statement. Walk into a fast food joint and tell that to the people slaving away for 5.15 an hour. Or how about the Immokalee farm workers who are picking tomatoes for McDonalds? Let them know that they're doing "just fine!" And they are not making close to 5.15 an hour. The unborn qualify as "people" but illegal immigrants with families do not? Because if they do, it's fairly inhumane to claim they're doing "just fine" in the position many are in.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Unless the majority of non-college educated Americans work at McDonalds, you don't have a point. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm And if you think the life of a McDonald's employee is bad, you haven't travled enough. Abortion and illegal immigration are two different issues.

reply from: Shiprahagain

In recent years, the United States has established a reasonable record in reducing child poverty. Successful anti-poverty policies were partially implemented in the welfare reform legislation of 1996, which replaced the old Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) program with a new program called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF).
A key element of this reform was a requirement that some welfare mothers either prepare for work or get jobs as a condition of receiving aid. As this requirement went into effect, welfare rolls plummeted and employment of single mothers increased in an unprecedented manner. As employment of single mothers rose, child poverty dropped rapidly. For example, in the quarter-century before welfare reform, there was no net change in the poverty rate of children in single-mother families; after reform was enacted, the poverty rate dropped in an unprecedented fashion, falling from 53.1 percent in 1995 to 39.8 percent in 2001.
Robert Rector and Patrick F. Fagan, "The Continuing Good News About Welfare Reform," Heritage Foundation Backgrounder No. 1620, February 6, 2003

reply from: coco

what? i want to live on the planet you are on. Life is not bad as a mcdonalds employee ARE YOU CRAZY?? if you are comparing it to 3 world nations then your right but boy you have mad to many trips to utopia. Have you ever worked there?? I have and it SUCKED and so did the pay.

reply from: coco

we are the most richest country and you are comparing our standerds of living to those of bangladesh?? you cannnot do that that is like having a 1 million dollar networth in a billion dollar area you cant compare you are still in college once you experience the world for yourself to know what a $5.15 an hour job can get you and your family. On your next trip to utopia can i join you sounds like an awsome place to live and visit.

reply from: coco

you really need to get out in the world more often

reply from: Shiprahagain

If you had read the article you'd know I was comparing the poor of the US to the middle class of Europe. Until you do read the article there is no reason to respond to your posts as they are coming from a position of ignorance.

reply from: 1003

ship, one article is not the issue. the issue is that we need to support the unaborted poor better. so what if they're better off than middle class europe. would you give up your education in whatever meaningless topic you are undertaking to be poor and work as hard as they must to go to college? no one wants to switch places with america's poor. now... can we stay on topic, or do you want to prove your googling skills again?

reply from: Shiprahagain

I'm afraid I don't always understand your posts, Concerned, but if it's something religion related I suppose pm would be more appropriate. However, this one, though cryptic, does make me smile -- First Corinthians is my favorite part of the Bible
Please let me know if I'm misinterpreting you -- b/c that's not my intent -- but I think you're saying we should respond to people's poor life choices with charity. I agree -- but I don't believe charity corresponds to tax funded college tuition that encourages further poor choices.

reply from: coco

conern parent i have been with my fiancee for 10 years i am 26 years old and have been with him since 15 going on 16, i did not know he was on anything at all he kept it from me i was never around morphine,oxycontin,etc so i would not know how a person acted like when he was on the stuff he always said he had a rough day and tierd. I took his word because he looked it. I am sure that if all of you had no education on opiates and your children or loved one was on it without your knowledge you would take thier word when they say thier tierd. anyway i just deliverd my 2nd child and had a cancer scare, and then one day he came up to me and said i have to tellyou something I have a problem and i know its going to piss you off!! then he told me i was beyond pissed i was 21 years old,just had my 2nd child,was going threw a cancer scare,going to trade school and trying to go forward to support my children what more can go wrong i thought then this came up. I was heartbroken and devistated but figured that i have to support him throught this time. I HATED him, i thought what he did was the most selfish thing, how could he i should have been the one on drugs with all this pressure i often thought. but i never left his side he is still going threw therapy and i am glad we stuck together, i love him more than ever and i finally decided to marry him because we have been through the death of his mother,my illness scares,2 children and an addiction and i feel that our love is stronger than ever. but most people in my position arent so lucky, i wish they were i am luck to have a partner that cares and loves me and i wish that upon EVERYONE

reply from: Shiprahagain

Concerned, she admits she might be lying on the "Hey, 1003" thread with this quote "i could be lying i could not this is the internet this could be my own personal behavior test who knows but me?? scientist test things all the time tehy vary the outcomes to see what happens if... " On the same thread she also defends lying on forums.

reply from: coco

concered i am on summer break its not fall yet, are you saying that i am lying???

reply from: coco

http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/paper660/news/2005/11/18/Viewpoint/The-Minimum.Wage.Imperative-1109645.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com TIMES ARE DIFFRENT, you had some sort of job security but NOW THAT DOES NOT EXSIST!! corperations are only concered with THIER profits, i am not saying that just cause you have a degree you are better than anyone if you have one i am just saying at leadt you have a saftey net and have a better chance to have a better paying job to support you and your family and for women it is not the 50's anymore a man can leave you at anytim why do you think the divorce rate is so high so especially women need the saftey net

reply from: coco

if you believe that i am lying why do you respond to me ship ?? again you can beleve what you want i dont care

reply from: coco

oh ship i am my own boss so i decide when i want to work

reply from: coco

I also find it difficult to believe that anyone who is attending college fulltime and has implied that they work to earn their education has so much time to devote to this forum. I have been reasonably successfull in life, yet never even owned a computer before I retired. I had no time for such things.
so what is this paragrah suppost to mean, if i am acting like "a thief will always lock his door when he leaves his house, and upon misplacing an item, will often assume it stolen before exploring other possibilities.
I didn't question your integrity, but I can understand why you might be defensive while others openly do so.

reply from: coco

I am sorry if you thought i was disrespecting your thoughts in anyway. my parents always tought me that you MUST respect peoples ideas because it is thiers, even if you dont like them. so i do that untill people start with the personal attacks.
I dont catogorize myself in a specific religion, because i dont believe in the bible. and my grandmother was a janitor and retierd at the age of 72. Just because she didnt make it to the 4th grade doesnt mean i am better then her i think she has much wisdom far beyond mind that a book could NEVER give you.
I DONT think i am better than anyone just because i am in school because i am NOT I just see education as a neccassary for girls that were in my position, and know what it is to be young and scarred when it really hits you that you are responsible for a HUMAN FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It was a scarry thought for me when i had my first child @19 but cant imagine what a 13 yearold thinks. I just see education for those in that were in my shoes as a saftey net.

reply from: ThunderKitten

I've worked at McDonalds a few years back. It was terrible. I only worked six hour days a few days a week, but when I came home my feet hurt so much from standing on that red tile floor I had to soak them in a bucketful of hot water. I wanted more hours so I wouldn't drain my savings, but what little I worked was already killing my feet. I've worked eight hour days on my feet at another place five days a week and NEVER had that problem. It's that darn red tile McDonalds uses.
Plus they treat their employees like dirt, and don't give a rat's behind if someone quits. They figure, "We'll find someone else." My proudest moment was when I walked off the job on-shift. I can never work there again? GOOD!!
Oh, one thing that irks me though- one customer telling me how I should do better with my life than working at McDonalds. I'm thinking, "Then why the **** are you a customer here? It's an honest days' work and it gets people fed. If you think this job is so rotten that I shouldn't be doing it, then don't support it! Geeze." I didn't say anything though.
I think I'm rambling now, what was my point?
Um, I guess that I think Shipara, you saying poverty/lack of people giving handouts doesn't excuse abortion, which I agree with. BUT, that doesn't mean you have to be so... uncharitable. Have some sympathy!

reply from: ThunderKitten

*accidentally double posted- oops!*

reply from: holopaw

Not to be a jerk, but can we get some paragraphs in your posts?

reply from: holopaw

If college is so valuable, and it is, take out a student loan. That is what I am doing. Colleges are actively recruiting first generation college students. BTW, the main problem is the crappy condition of public education in our country more than it is colleges putting up roadblocks via tuition.

reply from: V

Concerned, I am not sure but I do beleive you may have directed that question my way. I am in college and I pay for my school myself. I worked while I was in the states attending classes. When I came to Australlia I took out a student loan that I will pay when I graduate and get a job. If you have noticed I only have time to get on in the morning before or inbetween a class after that I have too much work to think about anything else.
I didn't mean I am paying for it all now at this moment. I meant I was working for my books and then took out a loan and came to Australia.

reply from: coco

I am sorry but i disagree with you (about holopaw being considerate) He said that i will not be a good nurse. and thank you I caught that a little late i was very distracted

reply from: Shiprahagain

Thunderkitten, I never said that working at McDonald's was a pleasant job, I'm just saying that I don't feel like my job as a taxpayer is to protect people from hard work. My job as a tax payer is to help people with urgent needs. Bettering yourself is the person's own responsibility. I mean -- people in my family have done work like picking cotton and sugarcane that would make McDonald's seem like Heaven, and they never asked for a handout. We live in a country so prosperous that merely having your feet hurt at the end of the day seems like a human rights abuse -- it isn't. It's okay to be sore from a hard day's work. Besides, if we give out free college tuition to unwed moms, why not give it to virgin girls, and to virgin boys too? Do we only give tuition to people who get pregnant at a less that auspicious time? I'm not saying that education isn't valuable or that those who want to give shouldn't, I'm just saying that no one should be automatically responsible for another person's college education -- and no one should especially say that its hypocritical to deny college tuition and support abortion.
My only interest in this topic is insofar as it relates to abortion -- but I would be happy to discuss low income work, education, or the role of taxes as they do not relate to abortion in pm.

reply from: coco

those topics go hand and hand it is base on statictics that a pre/teen girl that has a baby,they are more likely to be in poverty for the rest of thier life. If you want to outlaw abortion then those people that support that ban, should be more than happy to pay for what they support, and I'm more than happy to do that as long as they are willing to move forward then why not?? isnt that the "christian" thing to do???and it is not like they are just going to take they will also give back when they are financialy sound!

reply from: Shiprahagain

As I said, I happy to meet needs. I don't consider college a need.

reply from: nsanford

As I said, I happy to meet needs. I don't consider college a need.
It's not a need, but it's important if you wish to be successful.

reply from: coco

concerned I am very aware of my capablites and i try not to let people bring me down on the contrary i use it as ammo and makes me want to be GREAT at whatever i do. Thier were people in my family that said i couldnt make it to college and i am in my 3rd year. so if i could take it from a "family" member i could take it from a poster. I guess he disrespects people that dont agree with him and his ideas

reply from: Shiprahagain

I see the value in self-sufficiency.

reply from: coco

I am very glad concerned that you see my point YOU ARE VERY WISE even if we dont agree on ALL things

reply from: coco

I just think you poses a quality on the board which is very rare and that is the ability to see the whole picture instead of just one side.

reply from: Tam

I agree that these women should be helped financially, and I don't mind taxes going up to do that (although I'd rather the rich foot more of the bill than the lower middle class). However, I don't feel that college is necessary for life in the same way that food, shelter, clothing, and health care are essential, and therefore I feel that it should not be up to taxpayers to provide college education for everyone, just the basic necessities of life.
I realize college is important to get ahead in our society, but getting ahead in our society is not a necessity of life. The necessities of life are food, shelter, clothing, and health care. I don't think anyone would argue with that list, and you certainly haven't made a compelling argument that college is a necessity of life, only that it's important. Many things are important, but I feel that asking taxpayers to cover more than the necessities of life is unfair to them, and asking them to cover less than the necessities of life is unfair to those who don't have the basic necessities.
We have to draw the line somewhere, and the basic necessities of life is the only sensible place to draw it. If it becomes necessary to attend college to live, that will become clear by the fact that those without a degree will die, and those with a degree will live. Unless that happens, college--as important as it may be to some--does not qualify as a necessity.

reply from: Tam

I agree. I don't mean to imply above, by stating that college isn't a necessity of life, that no tax dollars should be spent to help kids go to college. I just meant that the basic necessities of life should be guaranteed for every child, but that college doesn't qualify as essential for life (as evidenced by your experience). I'm all for helping kids get an education--but if we include college in the list of things guaranteed to every child, it renders the idea much less feasible. I think that if some people want to get together and start a charity fund for kids who want to go to college but can't afford it and aren't academically talented enough to get a scholarship, fine, but I don't think money should be taken by force from people (via taxes) for this purpose. In other words, it's a noble goal, but not one that should be mandated, whereas food, shelter, clothing, and health care should be guaranteed for all.

reply from: coco

i 2nd that motion concered, lets have lunch

reply from: Tam

Ok, well, I can't argue with that!
Wow . . . weird, that really brings back memories! My experience was very similar, except that I stayed in school. I am still trying to pay back all those student loans, though! I would have loved more in the way of grants. But I am lucky in that more than half my education was given to me in grants, and I worked three jobs in college to help pay my way, so at least my loans are not as much as they might have been otherwise. I truly hated being on free lunch, although I never skipped meals because of it. I just remember absolutely dreading the part in the lunch line where they would take your money, and instead I'd have to say my name and be checked off the list. Every day I hated that moment--but heck, I was hungry and didn't want to miss out on lunch. I suppose if I'd thought it would have helped, I might have--but I would have been teased whether or not I ate lunch--my clothing (hand-me-downs from my mom or my older--male--cousin) was more than enough to prompt ridicule from the sort of person who ridicules other kids. I also hated having to be taken out of my regular class to have a special class--not to mention skipping grades, which was really bad socially. Although I will say that I never got teased for being smart per se, but I got teased mercilessly for being poor and also, especially, for being innocent about sex (because I was two years younger than my classmates). But even if you're not getting openly teased for being different, just getting stared at and talked about is uncomfortable. By 10th grade, I was used to it and just took it all in stride as best I could, but I never enjoyed it much.
Ok. You sold me. Every child should have the opportunity to achieve his/her full potential, and I'm ok with more taxes to make that happen. That doesn't mean every child should have free college, but every child with the aptitude for college who doesn't have the means to go, should get government grants and loans to make that possible.

reply from: 1003

/me does a jig.
now if only you folks could see abortion as an extension of property rights... :-D

reply from: 1003

it was chiding. i really see an upturn in the debate and attitudes here. and, since i'm sure that i'm right, i think that you'll eventually turn to my viewpoint. however, no, i'm not joking that i see abortion as an extension of property rights.

reply from: Tam

It makes me sick that you consider a human being to be a piece of property. What differentiates you from a slaveowner, then?

reply from: 1003

nonono. not that the child is property. but that the resources required for that child to grow are property. see?

reply from: 1003

ok. yes. i believe she MAY refuse to breastfeed. that is a right. you own yourself. that's accurate. is there some reason to believe that you do not own yourself? and that you may not kill in order to protect yourself?

reply from: holopaw

I KNEW this would happen. A few Pro-Lifers have a family spat and the Anti-Lifers nearly wet themselves sensing a rift in the Anti-Abortion family.
Tam, CP, Shirapagain, Ash Marie, Yodavater, & V are not about to join your deadly Pro Baby Killing Advocacy group. Hades will freeze over before that happens.

reply from: 1003

...
i think that parents have no more responsibility for a child than anyone else. as a society, we would like to see all children fed, clothed, immunized, and educated. while it'd be awesome for parents to do this, if they choose not to do these things, it is up to society to have a safety net for those children. i don't think she should KILL the child... but if she could at least let someone down at the children and youth services know that she intends not to feed him, that'd be enough.

reply from: holopaw

I KNEW this would happen. A few Pro-Lifers have a family spat and the Anti-Lifers nearly wet themselves sensing a rift in the Anti-Abortion family. What upturn in attitudes are you speaking of? CoCo offering you praise? Virginia hopping on the death wagon of baby killing?
Tam, CP, Shirapagain, Ash Marie, Yodavater, & V are not about to join your deadly Pro Baby Killing Advocacy group. Hades will freeze over before that happens.

reply from: 1003

... did you just quote yourself to ensure you were the most recent post?

reply from: AshMarie88

On a very off topic post, I liked 1003's other avatar...

reply from: 1003

i think you should be allowed to remove the child immediately upon deciding that you no longer wish to be pregnant. ... assume i'm reasonable. and that i don't want people to kill kids. now... do i really have to explain any more? you're right. it is criminal to let kids starve. we should take care of those kids... i think the only thing on which we disagree is abortion. which is wierd. i usually find prolifers are neocons...

reply from: coco

nobody is trying to break up your clan holopaw!! why are you acting like that?? why do you see this as "teams" that way of thinking is so childish. Lets have a grown-up debate without refering to teams

reply from: holopaw

Evil is evil regardless of the packaging.

reply from: holopaw

Did I say he was trying to break up our clan? I love my clan or team as you put it. Good vs. Evil. Either you are for baby killing or you are not. There is no grey in the abortion issue.

reply from: AshMarie88

"Remove the child"? You mean AFTER that child is cut up?

reply from: Shiprahagain

Okay, as far as education goes, not only do I not believe in tax payer funded college tuition, but I also want public schools to be dismantled -- I know it sounds crazy, but check out this website http://www.schoolandstate.org/

P.S. It's endorsed by prolifer Tom Monaghan, founder of Dominoe's Pizza
I believe that the more we make people dependent upon the gov't, the more passive and weak they become. I feel that the gov't at its best brings people to a state of self sufficiency. If we want true revolution, perhaps instead of giving all people college educations with tax money -- especially unfair if people who don't believe in the value of college education have to pay -- let's, as a society, diversify our ideas of what an educated person is and do more grassroots things like deregulation to open up the gates of prosperity. Furthermore, let's recognize that all children are gifted and nourish those gifts in a variety of ways -- apprenticeship, art, homeschooling, meditation etc. Once we realize all children are gifted, we will realize all children are gifts -- and our society will become more prolife as a result.

reply from: holopaw

The way to improve this country is to spend our tax dollars within our borders. Tam is still paying back her student loans while our country gives millions of dollars in aid to foreign countries. Fix the public school system, don't disband it.

reply from: coco

A few Pro-Lifers have a family spat and the Anti-Lifers nearly wet themselves sensing a rift in the Anti-Abortion family.
Tam, CP, Shirapagain, Ash Marie, Yodavater, & V are not about to join your deadly Pro Baby Killing Advocacy group. Hades will freeze over before that happens.
HOLOPAW GET OVER THE KINDERGARTEN STUFF and you put it that way

reply from: coco

I am against abortion in anyway, to view a living being as an item is in my view wrong. I think if you do not want to be pregnant you should use condoms and birthcontrol every time you have sex to ENSURE that pregnancy doesnt occur.

reply from: holopaw

Coco, it appears you want to be buddies with Pro-Abortionists. To understand them. That's your prerogative. I view them as pawns of Satan. Their acceptance and promotion of abortion is evil. Your admiration of 1003 is an abomination. 1003 advocates killing innocent and defenseless children. It's no different than him defending a man who would shoot a schoolyard full of children. No, I'm not open-minded on this issue. What Pro-Lifer would be? You don't compromise with evil. I'd rather be thought of us as a kindergartener than a college-educated adocate of baby killing.

reply from: Shiprahagain

How is it Kindergarten to not want to group himself with people who practice human rights abuses? Would you call it Kindergarten if he didn't want to befriend rapists or slaveowners? Or is it only Kindergarten for human rights abuses that aren't egregious to you -- b/c although you claim to be prolife, abortion doesn't seem to bother you all that much.

reply from: coco

Originally posted by: holopaw
Originally posted by: coco
Did I say he was trying to break up our clan? I love MY clan or team as you put it.

reply from: coco

maybe YOU HOLOPAW are a pawn of satan for passing judgement on others?? IS THAT CHRISTIAN LIKE HOLO???IS IT??? I thought that that was for GOD not holopaw to decide!!

reply from: holopaw

I'm sure you and 1003 would love the Pro-Lifers to allow you to kill all the unborn children and create all the embryos you want to experiment on without calling it the evil it is. Not going to happen. God says thou shalt not kill and anyone who goes along with it, I judge an advocate of baby killing.

reply from: coco

Thought you should not judge people paw?? when have i said it is ok to kill children POST IT I CHALLENGE YOU

reply from: holopaw

You believe it is ok to experiment on aborted embryos. Your buddy 1003 is all for killing babies in the womb.

reply from: coco

so just because I THINK that already aborted fetuses that were ALREADY aborted COULD potentially aid in a cure for some illinesses i am an evil spawn of satan?? WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT 1003 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ME!!!!
once again paw a "REAL" christian would not judge just pray for people to "see the light". Tonight paw i will pray for you and your soul because it seems that you like to pass judgement on others.
I think jesus did not get followers buy your approach paw

reply from: holopaw

I/m glad to hear you are praying Coco. If you believe being Christian means we are supposed to pray and not take action then you are mistaken. I don't enjoy passing judgment on people, but I'm not going to let the slaughter of unborn children go unchallenged.
People need to be held accountable. If I were doing something wrong, I'd want a Christian brother or sister to tell me. It does me no good if I continue in my wayward ways and all they do is pray for me. Yes, they need to talk to God, but they need to talk to me to.
1003 says he is a Christian, if so he should not be advocating the killing of innocent unborn children. He, she, it can posts all he wants that they are not innocent. Even if 1003 is right, they've done nothing that justifies their death by human hands.

reply from: Tam

what if there is one way to remove the child that kills him/her, and another way that doesn't kill him/her. would you think that the mom has the right to choose the way that kills the baby, just because she does not want the baby to live or do you really think it's about being allowed to remove the child?
LOL I'm the most bleeding-heart liberal you'll probably ever meet, at least on this forum!

reply from: Tam

I could not agree more. I would never put any child of mine in a public school.
Well, I must admit, as much as I agree with what I said above about college--really, I agree with what you just said more. I wanted to go to college, and I loved college, and having the degree has helped me--but it's helped me to be part of a system I think is--I suppose the best way I can put it is: irreparably hosed. I think the way we educate children is really abysmal, and that exactly the sorts of things you are mentioning--apprenticeship, homeschooling, etc., realizing all children are gifted--that is where I've been headed lately in my own thinking. Now, this is why you should definitely read those Daniel Quinn books I was talking about, too, Shiprah, because he says the same sort of thing about education, and it's quite well thought-out.

reply from: Tam

did you not read the thread about Implanon? Go to that thread and click the link for NorthStar's article. Read that article then decide how you feel about birth control "ensuring" that pregnancy doesn't occur.

reply from: yoda

You think that's cute, don't you?
That's a different kind of "judging"... the one where you convict someone and pass sentence on them.
Here's the kind of "juding" she meant:
Main Entry: judge Function: verb Inflected Form(s): judged; judg·ing
1 : to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=judge

reply from: yoda

Same thing, alter ego.

reply from: coco

WOW paw you hold yourself in preatty high regaurds dont you??
Andyoda what do i think is so cute??

reply from: coco

why is it so bad to use condoms and birth control??

reply from: Shiprahagain

I don't think anyone on this forum has said it was. Where are you getting that from? We oppose abortifacient birth control, not condoms and not birth control in general.

reply from: coco

Yes, they need to talk to God, but they need to talk to me to.
I dont know if i am crazy but that statement is pretty bold

reply from: coco

if you holowpaw were trying to stop a girl from having an abortion how would YOU do it???

reply from: laurissamarcotte

Because we shouldn't separate sex and pregnancy. If God wants a baby in a woman's womb, she shouldn't stop Him.

reply from: Tam

It's not bad to use contraception--but it's stupid to think it PREVENTS pregnancy. Did you look at the stats from NorthStar's article?

reply from: 1003

believe it or not, no, i think she ought to be forced to abort in the fashion that preserves the child's life.

reply from: holopaw

I hold myself in higher regard than a person who would advocate the killing of unborn children.

reply from: holopaw

I'd offer her help. Women Pregnancy Centers assist women in finding housing and employment. I have donated hundreds of dollars in clothes and baby items. I'd also serve as a male father figure as long as it was feasible.
I get so tired of the Pro-Abortionists accusing PLers of abandoning women after they have the baby.
What what you do CoCo?

reply from: holopaw

believe it or not, no, i think she ought to be forced to abort in the fashion that preserves the child's life.
I admit that is very humane of you.

reply from: Tam

believe it or not, no, i think she ought to be forced to abort in the fashion that preserves the child's life.
what about waiting? what if she had to wait a week or two, or a month or two, for the child to be viable, so as to preserve his/her life? would that be justified? i understand that you don't think she should have to wait the whole 9 months, but what if it was only a matter of 9 days, or 9 hours? how long can she be inconvenienced in order to spare her child's life?

reply from: Shiprahagain

Keep in mind, periodic abstinance done in an informed manner has an extremely low failure rate http://familydoctor.org/126.xml

I also hope that we can explore indigenous types of birth control. For example, in one tribe in Africa grandmothers teach granddaughters to monitor the texture of their saliva in order to determine their hormonal levels and aid in conception choices.

reply from: yoda

Rightttt...... 1003, let's rush to kill the babies, right? I mean, we wouldn't want them to get away, would we?

reply from: 1003

i'm not talking about killing babies. do you read the conversations, or just a few words here and there to get offended over? oh, and maybe scan for "fetus" so you can post a definition of "baby". we get it.

reply from: AshMarie88

A fetus is a baby in the womb.

reply from: Tam

*bzzzt* Thank you for playing, anyway. But don't worry, we have a gift for you--the latest in ladies' watchbands!
*ding ding ding*
Aaaaaand we have a winner, Johnny!

reply from: Tam

Yes--usually. A "baby rabbit" and other such terms are common for young offspring of nonhumans. Although the word "baby" devoid of any other context would likely elicit thoughts of human babies from nearly all humans, those who deal with animal babies regularly surely use "baby" without modification to refer to animal babies quite frequently. But, that is not the usual usage.
I agree completely.

reply from: 1003

no. she can't just say "if i can't care for her, no one is allowed to"... that's unacceptable. hrm... no agency... i see that as a failing of society. unfortunate. but still within her rights. she's no more obligated to feed that child than her neighbor....

reply from: Tam

I didn't hear anyone suggest that all people should get government funded college educations.
I thought that's what coco was suggesting.
That is, I believe, the logic being used to try to get federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.

reply from: Tam

It wasn't an objection, just an observation.
From the OED:
I guess I'm willing to take your word for it that this is a "technically improper" usage, but you were so definitive in your statement that "baby" couldn't apply to animals that I felt like it was worth pointing out that according to accepted English, it can and does.

reply from: Tam

Yes, that is exactly what I did. And now it has been explained, by both of us, in detail I feel is sufficient. I did not feel it had been adequately explained in your other response, but at this point I think it has, and I therefore see no need to continue discussing it. I wasn't objecting to what you said, just giving some additional information. Ok?

reply from: Shiprahagain

Actually, baby is the term for the young of any species. The specialized term for human young is infant. Infant is the counterpart of foal, lamb, or cub.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

That's really messed up.

reply from: yoda

Preciesely! It sickens my stomach to see the liars and perverts try to illigitimately "restrict" valid uses of words like "baby" for the sole purpose of enabling the killing of more of them.

reply from: yoda

Yes, you ARE talking about killing babies, you just won't admit it.
You probabykilling advocates are quite hypocritical, aren't you? You'll deny the applicability of such words as "baby", and then when I show you to be ignorant and wrong, you protest that I'm being "too picky"..... although you thought it perfectly fine to discuss the applicability of such words when YOU did it.
Your tactics are really quite sickening.

reply from: yoda

That's really messed up.
Isn't it though?
The "uninvolved parent" is the curse of our times....... pity the poor child...

reply from: Tam

Apples and oranges. There is a big difference between saying a use for our tax money is unfair because some people do not see the value in that use even though they can be shown to benefit from such usage, and claiming that some members of our society (the unborn) can justifiably be sacrificed to benefit the rest and funding this atrocity with our tax dollar.
My point is, there are those who believe that a college education is unquestionably beneficial, and there are those who believe it is unquestionably detrimental, and certainly plenty in between. For those who believe it is detrimental, using tax dollars to pay for it is taking their money and using it for a purpose they consider wrong.
I realize that you probably believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that a college education is objectively beneficial, and that anyone who believes otherwise is simply wrong.
Don't get me wrong--I loved college, and I am grateful for the experience. But when I take a step back and assess as objectively as I can the effect that college had on my life, I realize that it has had two material effects.
1) It has enabled me to get ahead in a system that I have, through the process of "getting ahead" in it, realized is not only a system in which I do not wish to participate any longer, but also a system that I believe is both irreparably flawed and doomed to catastrophic failure.
2) It has, through loans I am still trying to pay back, tied me to that twisted, doomed system for the most productive years of my life--years I would rather be using to get ahead in completely different ways, ways that contribute to a new way of life that is more sustainable and joyful.
I also enjoyed my years in public school, despite my later conclusion that the public education system does far more harm than good and should be abolished. Does that mean I don't think tax dollars should go to pay for public school? I suppose it does. But the taxes are controlled by the same folks controlling public education, and both are part of the same system I wish to abandon as soon as it becomes financially feasible to extricate myself from it. What that system does with the money it takes from citizens is concerning me less and less. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be fine with it going totally socialist. Either way, my goal is to get out, not to keep contributing to the machine that is grinding the earth, the other life forms on it, and the unborn into dust.
My point is that although, because I recognize that college is an advantage to getting ahead in our society, I support the idea of our society's tax dollars funding it, I do understand that there are those who will conclude, as I have, that getting ahead in our society is less beneficial than extricating oneself from it to do something better (say, a self-sufficient ecovillage), and would rather encourage that latter, better outcome than to perpetuate the mistakes of the past. That's all I meant.

reply from: Tam

Preciesely! It sickens my stomach to see the liars and perverts try to illigitimately "restrict" valid uses of words like "baby" for the sole purpose of enabling the killing of more of them.
Ok, but although the original context, to which we should promptly return, was 1003's denial that a fetus is a type of baby, the context of what Shiprah just said had to do with a different sort of restriction on the word, having to do with species as opposed to age.

reply from: yoda

I think I understand your reservations. I just didn't see Shiprah's comments as "restrictive", but rather as "emphasizing" specialized terms, while allowing more generalized terms such as "baby" for any species, including human beings.
But YES, we do need to return to 1003's idiotic assertion that a human fetus "isn't" a baby!

reply from: yoda

Right. Although we tend to think of humans when we hear the word "baby" used by itself, if it's used in the context of a conversation about the very young of another species, it's also correct.

reply from: Tam

Not to mention the bet--which he is probably afraid to take.

reply from: yoda

Oh yeah.... the "easy" $100....... he's probably so rich he doesn't care about money.......

reply from: Shiprahagain

http://biology.usgs.gov/features/kidscorner/quizzes/bbynme.html Actually, baby isn't a specialized term for young humans, but like everyone else who has weighted in and then insist we get back to 1003, I agree
As far as 1003 is concerned, he is just one in a long line of people who manipulate language to oppress. Look at the pattern http://blackgenocide.org/abortion.html

Personhood is always redefined to exclude the intended victim class. In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws codified the exclusion of Jews from German society. The next year, the Reichsgericht (Germany's highest court) essentially legalized the Holocaust. Cartoons routinely depicted Jews as pigs, dogs, rats, and other vermin. In 1857, the U.S. Supreme Court declared Blacks "...a subordinate and inferior class of beings..." in [Dred] Scott v. Sandford. Black slaves were often assigned diminutive names, such as "Mingo," that were normally reserved for pets. In 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court found that "the word 'person,' as used in the [Constitution], does not include the unborn." Today, unwanted children are spoken of in dehumanizing terms: "embryo," "fetus," "products of conception," etc.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Concerned, I'm just saying that in this matter, i agree with the federal biological organization over the dictionary.

reply from: Tam

And my point is that every member of society benefits from a portion of society obtaining a higher education whether they find it objectionable or not.
Well, ok, I think that's debatable, but I'm really not that gung-ho to debate it.
I hear that! I knew a guy once who would deduct from his tax payment the percentage that is spent on defense, because as a pacifist he opposed that use of the money. I know the IRS was very upset, and it took a long time to resolve it, and I think he ended up having to pay it anyway but I'm not completely sure.
Well, it's definitely a matter of opinion whether the modern medical system is doing more good than harm. On the other hand, there are problems it is very good at fixing--but most of those problems are caused by the same system that is fixing them. For example, if we were all eating organic, whole food, vegetarian diets, there would be much less need of modern so-called medicine.
I do understand that the general consensus in our culture is that the medical system is a good and wonderful thing--just like the education system and the political system--but I'm just making the point that whether or not these systems are doing more harm, or more good, is a matter of opinion based on what individuals consider harmful or beneficial. More education enables more success within the system. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing depends on the values of the individual. That's all I'm trying to say. I think it's often just assumed that everyone feels all warm and fuzzy about allopathic medicine, public education, representative democracy, etc. Sometimes I just chime in to offer a different perspective.

reply from: yoda

Precisely.
He's among some pretty disgusting company.

reply from: ThunderKitten

If college is so valuable, and it is, take out a student loan. That is what I am doing. Colleges are actively recruiting first generation college students. BTW, the main problem is the crappy condition of public education in our country more than it is colleges putting up roadblocks via tuition.
I wasn't saying she had to open her pocketbook, just her heart. Like, maybe acknowledge that working at McDonald's really and trully sucks. That's all.
Personally, I think people should get paid a living wage no matter where they work or whether they graduated from college. If a job is important enough to a company to have it done, I think it's important enough to pay someone for. Any objections to raising the federal minimum wage to $10/hour and inflation proofing it?
BTW, the second college I went to was abysmal. I'm glad I did NOT get a degree from there. Now, the first one I went to, boy I wish I could've stayed... Anyway, that's a long story.
*Edit* Oh, I just saw Shipira's reply to my message. OK... I guess she did acknowledge the suckage of McDonalds. Never mind...

reply from: NathanG

1003, if this verse true for males, does it not at all apply to mothers feeding their children?
How about these:
How do these verses fit within your "brand" of Christianity?
Will you please give a sincere and understandable response?
If you believe that you are a Christian, please tell us how you reconcile Scriptures such as these with your stated view that a mother need not share her body's resources with her own flesh and blood offspring.
Thank you,
and, as always, may God bless you in Christ Jesus.
Sincerely,
Nathan Galeotti

reply from: galen

Just so coc doesn't go away feeling too well off...
I didn't reply because i was having foot surgery.
i also meant what i said about education and the need for it in your case.
i know from where i came because i teach. At a medical school.
i also know that if i can place an unwed single mother in an oil tools factory... and she can hold a conversation better than you can, then there is hope for you yet.
try any industrial area... i have a list that includes whirlpool Gatoraid Baker ind. Saturn and many others... they are all begging for trustworthy workers and have had openings for over a year. if you need more of a list then i suggest you go to your local paper and start pounding the pavement.
PS the jobs i've listed here all start at over 12.00 per hour US.
Mary

reply from: galen

well this did not get a reply... i hope old coco has found a job!
Mary

reply from: coco

I have not replied because i also have things going on in my life. And by the way i am a full time nursing student (on summer vacation) with a bussiness to run, so in no means can i take on another job. As far as your p.s comment you think that a $12.00 an hour job is a "good" job. Maybe for a kid that is in college with no dependants it is do you know how much that is BEFORE taxes???
Lets break this down, that is $ 24,960 a year once again BEFORE taxes, lets say that the lady is by herself and has ONE child Rent (not including utilites) is about 600.00 ( around my part of town it is $850 with heat for 2 bedrooms) that deducts 7,200 a year from the $24,960 so it leaves her with $17,760.00. we have to factor the utilites say about $100 month for electricity & water that leaves us with 16,560 ( phone, is a nessecity for me but for arguments sake i will leave that out, and cable bill no need for that) leaves us with $16,560. Now we only have 2 people to feed ( the woman and the kid) she makes to much to get food stamps so she has to pay out of pocket $200.00 a month( this is so not realistic but again maybe in certain parts of the country) $14,160 is our total. in order to go to work she needs to find a babysetter or daycare (once again she makes to much to get help) so she takes her kid to the ymca and it is $100 a week that is $9,360 left over. Say she lives in a city so she can ride a bus to and from work a monthly bus pass say is $100 a month ( it's more than that but for arguments sake) that leaves us with $8,160.
Clothing she may go to a second hand store and pick up clothes because she is aware of her money situation, so she buys $700 a year worth of clothes and shoes for her & her child that leaves us with $7460.00. She has to buy personal and household items so that is about $20.00 a month $7,220. Now if her "good" job offers her benifits she probably pays for her health insurence ( cause she is over qualified for medicade) $200 a month left with $4820. Now that the summer is almost over she is going to have to pay heat she keeps it at 68 degrees but her bill is about $200 for the winter so about $600 for the months of december, january and febuary $4220.
That leaves us with $4220 dollars a year everything i added in hear was the MINIMUM of what it cost around were i live except we dont have public transportation. So around here you have to have a really understanding and helpful loving friends or you have to own a car that sucks up gas and need insurence because it is the law were i am from.
My point is that you CANNOT live on $12.00 an hour if you have a family and the sole provider. What is happening is the rich are getting richer and the avereage person is struggling to survive. Even if you have a college degree you can still get outsorced, fired, laidoff, etc.. But at least you have a saftey net that you can use AKA a backup plan. My soon to be father inlaw was laid off of the mills in gary indiana after 30 years of service thier and now he is to old to go anywhere else. No one will higher him because he is to experienced. And belive me you CAN be overqualified for a job.

reply from: yoda

Hey, you think that's bad? Guess what? They're hiring illegals at $2-$4 an hour to do all kinds of jobs now! One school district in CA has even tried to hire them as TEACHERS!
This, I'm sad to say, is America today. The rich are attacking the poor.

reply from: coco

I know it is horriable, but like you said THATS AMERICA!! I am Mexican and I am very aware of what is going on

reply from: yoda

It makes no difference what your race or national origin is, this is an action of the rich against the poor. Were this not so far off the subject, I could expound on it at length..... back to your regularly scheduled topics.......

reply from: coco

what i ment is that i am aware that i know that the illegals are working for that amount of money and since the subject hits close to home i understand both sides od the debate. And you are right this is not just about hispanics it is about all illegal immigrants. ANd i second that motion about rich and poor it wouldnt suprise me one bit if america in 150 years is a 2nd or 3 world country. I hope it doesnt but with the current status with the jobs and outsourcing etc watch out!! Back to the topic

reply from: galen

to that question i will say that if you live where your living expenses are that high... move. And yes for 3 years i made it on 12.00 an hour with 2 kids and no other support... my husband was out of work. We have a home with a mortage that tops 1000.00 a month and health ins, dental etc. We have 2 teenagers but at the time i was working single the kids were not old enough to care for themselves... We NEVER spend more than 150.00 a year on clothing and another 100.00 on shoes. the kids take good care of what they get and it tends to last longer. We have no assistance and i spens 280.00 a month on groceries...you see we give 3/4 of my salary back to the church where i volunteer. that means my husband... who makes 13.00 av as a manager only gets an extra 1000.00 from me to put into the bank. It is workable if you want it to be.. if you want to whine it won't be. If my family of 4 can do it so can anyone else.
i am tired of listening to someone who feels that the world should be laid out for them with no sacrifice. YOU STILL HAD $$ left over... and that is a pretty darn good thing.
i also find it hard to listen to someone who has contradicted herself in her complaints several times. first you need a job, then you are a nursing student with a small buisness..?? OH really!
NOT GOOD ENOUGH is what you say.... I say stop putting your energy into whining and put more of it into making your own life better. life gives you what you get out of it.... if you put in death and distruction that is what you will get out.
i am going to end this conversation . i find no point in debating someone who in reality is a sham.
Mary

reply from: coco

galen looks like you really need to take some sociology and econ classes!!

reply from: Tam

?????? What is that rude remark intended to achieve? If you have a specific criticism, make it! What is your point?
And, while I'm asking the tough questions: did your snipe at galen have anything to do with her calling attention to the glaring contradiction in your own posts? Care to address that whatsoever?

reply from: coco

when did I contradict myself??
And my "swipe" was intended to say that she is unaware of what $12 dollars an hour can get you in this day!!

reply from: Tam

Read Galen's post if you didn't read it closely enough the first time.
Actually, I said "snipe." But whatever.
Sounds to me like she has plenty of personal experience and that she was speaking from that experience.

reply from: coco

could you post the comment when i said i need a job??? sorry you wont find it because i never posted that!!
And yes i am a nursing student (B.S.N) at Indiana Universtiy northwest with a marketing bussiness on the side!!
And if you can make it on $12 dollars an hour with the gas prices,heating, food cost, etc ... More power to you but i know that with the current cost of living that $12 will not get you far..

reply from: Tam

I assume all that is directed at Galen, but I must say--reread the first sentence of her post.

reply from: galen

----------------------------------
this is not the same area as the baby boomers you cannot find a job the day you lost one why is their downsizing and jobs going to prisoners and people that are not leaving in this country but you probably think that is o.k. i am not saying people whit college find jobs but it is easier to find one with it. sadilly even people with college degrees cant find jobs but thier is a better chance of you finding a job that could sustain your family if you have one. i never said you have to have a degree to raise a child i said if you want to escape the life of having a high school diploma and working to jobs as a single parent and not having time with your child cause you have to work another job. that what my generation is facing around the chicagoland area you or your family can bearly make ends meet and inturn the children get into trouble. my mother or father didnt have college when they had me and i think my mom did the best she could but she struggled financially. how often do those machinist jobs come about?? and if they are so easy to aquire why is thier so many out of work??
----------------------------------------
what? i want to live on the planet you are on. Life is not bad as a mcdonalds employee ARE YOU CRAZY?? if you are comparing it to 3 world nations then your right but boy you have mad to many trips to utopia. Have you ever worked there?? I have and it SUCKED and so did the pay.
----------------------------------------
http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/m...=www.ndsmcobserver.com TIMES ARE DIFFRENT, you had some sort of job security but NOW THAT DOES NOT EXSIST!! corperations are only concered with THIER profits, i am not saying that just cause you have a degree you are better than anyone if you have one i am just saying at leadt you have a saftey net and have a better chance to have a better paying job to support you and your family and for women it is not the 50's anymore a man can leave you at anytim why do you think the divorce rate is so high so especially women need the saftey net
Edited: 07/23/2006 at 12:00 AM by coco
----------------------------------------------------
I also find it difficult to believe that anyone who is attending college fulltime and has implied that they work to earn their education has so much time to devote to this forum. I have been reasonably successfull in life, yet never even owned a computer before I retired. I had no time for such things.
so what is this paragrah suppost to mean, if i am acting like "a thief will always lock his door when he leaves his house, and upon misplacing an item, will often assume it stolen before exploring other possibilities.
I didn't question your integrity, but I can understand why you might be defensive while others openly do so.
------------------------------------------------------------
To me these statements imply that you are using them as factual evidence based on personal experience.
they also imply a lack of critical thinking and and a lot of parroting of fact that have been placed in front of you by others? Maybe an overzealous teacher.
BTW i have taught a socialogy class or two... and i also aced my economics classes... where do you get such comments? At 26 i dare say that you have not yet lived long enough to know the real economic and sociological ups and downs of the real world.
i come to this conclusion because you are now saying to us that you did not make the above statements as personal experience... or did you? with such bad composition i am unable now to see you point. ( do you have one ?)
i and many other people have made the geographic change in our lives in order to provide better for our families. We make the sacrifices necessary to be able to provide for our kids, and help others learn to do the same.
Life is not there to give us a handout...
life is not "fair".
life is not "equal'
some of us will be well off and some won't. The way to a happy life is to be thankful for what you do have and to be a trooper through the rest. if you are able to better yourself ( and i think we all can) then that is a worthy goal.
it is not the place of our government to provide ALL of our needs.
Sometimes we don't get to spend as much time with our kids as we would like... but is it more important to have the 80.00 jeans or time with M&D?
Is the time spent better at the homeless shelter making lunch with your family or sitting at home in front of the telly. These questions are answered individually in each home.... the consequences are also individual, the only person who you can gripe to if you do not like the situation is yourself.
if you go into the nursing industry with the idea that someone else is responsible for your misery, then you may well pass it on to your patients. that could end up being a horrible mistake. unless of course you want a group of codependant people who malinger on your hands. you would do well to learn that empathy is a great tool, but knowing when to 'take yourself in hand' is the other side of it. pallitive care should only be for the terminally ill. the rest of the time a patient is better served learning to cope with thier disease process and get on with things.
None of it gives anyone the right to take another human's life because it will complicate things... or make life harder... we all have our mountains to scale and seas to cross. just because a thing is hard does not mean that it should not be done.
Just quit telling all of us that it can't be done or that someone else should do it. Maybe you are jealous of those who you see as haveing "mommy and daddy' to help them... maybe you are just spiteful of people who you see and assume that thier life is " easy". i don't know...
i do know that the blame game will get you nowhere except burnout, and you are too young at 26 for that.
Mary

reply from: coco

JUST A QUESTION GALEN, SINCE YOU ARE A "COLLEGE PROFESSOR" DO YOU KNOW IT IS SUMMER VACATION AND IF YOU ARE IN COLLEGE YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO GO WHICH I CHOSE NOT TO !!!
and as far as my grammer goes i have no time to proof read some of the stuff i write. and i am not blamming anyone for my missery so were did you get the idea from. is it because i think if abortions are stopped it is our duty to help those that are 15 years old and need help both medically and educationally to make something of themselves???
BABY I TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR MY ACTIONS IF I DIDNT I WOULD HAVE HAD AN ABORTION!! so dont tell me that i am spiteful I have tutored and mentored at risk kids that are already caught up in the system and i want to be an example to these kids that s*** happends but you have to work hard and people like you are hold these girls back simply by your attitude. I am trying to become a productive member of society and do my part. YOU HAVE NO IDEA I HAVE PLENTY OF LIFE EXPERIENCE I DONT KNOW IT ALL BUT I AM NOT YOUR AVERAGE 26 YEAROLD.

reply from: Tam

Whoa there, coco. "People like Mary" are among the most generous, compassionate, and selfless persons anywhere. Have you any idea what she does to help girls in these situations? Way more than probably anyone else you know.

reply from: galen

coco,
I am NOT your baby.
LOL
did you even stop to think after you read my last post ? Or did you just dash off that Run On sentence before using what God gave you?
BTW you still imply quite a lot in your posts about where you are and what you do.
i have NEVER held ANYONE back from ANYTHING.
Mary

reply from: Shiprahagain

You have been enormously informative. You have also demonstrated that their are ways to be financialy secure if you want to -- but you can't help those determined not to accept it.


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